Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Hello, that was terrible.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carrier Show. You have
found the place where we talk about a state planning,
retirement law, elder law, real estate and business law. So
if you're looking to retire, if you have retired, if
you think about retiring, if you know anybody who's retired.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Now's the time give us a call. Sixty one six
seven seven four twenty four twenty four. That's sixty one
six evan sevent four twenty four twenty four. We'll get
your question, comment or concern on the air. You can
always go to the website David Caarryer Law dot com.
Encourage you to go to the website Davidcarrier Law dot com.
(01:13):
If you hang out on the website for a couple
of seconds, there a an AI bot or AI assistant.
I guess we call them now. Anyway, this thing will
pop up and you can ask it like freeform questions.
It's it really is turned out to be pretty useful.
We're getting a lot of good feedback on it. People
(01:35):
tend to like it.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
It is.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
It's been like I said, it's been useful. But if
you're wondering, oh, you know, what's all that AI stuff about,
well go to Davidcarrier Law dot com and you know,
when the thing pops up, you can there's a little
microphone there. If you have a microphone and computer, you
can click it and just tell it, ask it to
ask it the question and it'll give you. It'll give
(02:01):
you an answer, and it's it's it'll tell you about
the workshops, yes, but really it'll it'll give you some
really good information as well. Okay, so I'm not saying
I mean it is directing you. You know, if you
want a real answer, you know, the complete answer, then
you gotta you know, your specific circumstances have to be
(02:22):
taken into account. But as it is, it is as
it is. The thing is useful, Okay. It's better than
better than paddling around the website looking for stuff.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Just so there you go.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Six one, six, seven, seven four, twenty four, twenty four
that's the number to call. I'm intending to get through
the four things that that you should be looking for
in an a state plan. I started it last hour,
but we got distracted, daring clients calling in, people calling in.
But if you want to call in six one, six, seven, seven, four,
(02:59):
twenty four or twenty four, get me off my get
me off my game. Anyway, the first thing that you
need to do is look for follow through and follow up.
Are you going to be done once you get your documents?
Because your plan is not done when you get your documents.
There has to be followed through. Especially if you're doing
a trust based plan, there has to be followed through
(03:21):
to make sure that the trust that the trust actually works.
This is usually optional or you get a letter that says,
oh here, here's what you're supposed to do, but nobody
ever follows the letter, and so most trusts, I would
say the vast majority of trusts fail on their own
terms because there is no follow through. And then even
(03:42):
if it worked up front, there's no ongoing follow up
and so we send you a you know, we have
events during the year. We have the Red Wagon Club,
which is a way to formally, you know, keep up
with everything. It's fun too, that the Red Wagon club's
more fun than than substance. But both things are important.
(04:06):
I think being together with a community of people who
think the way that you do and have experiences similar
to yours, that's a good thing.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
It's not a bad thing.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
And when you're putting together a plan that's going to
work over the decades, God willing, you will have decades
right for this thing to work for you, protecting your
assets and making sure that things go well. That's the
follow up part of it. The second thing we do
is the whole long term care thing, the one thing
(04:37):
that middle class Michigan that breaks middle class Michigan, middle
class America. What breaks you is not the casino. You
didn't get too many large fountain drinks. Okay, you know,
whatever it is they're thinking now is the bad thing.
That's not what breaks people. What breaks people is the
medical expense, the expenses of long term care, over and
(05:02):
over and over again, thousands of times.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
You see it.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
That's why you sell the cottage, That's why you deplete
your resources all the rest of it. When just like medicaid,
just like excuse me, just like medicare, just like social security.
There is a government program for that that you paid
for that other people.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Are getting, right, but you're not. Why aren't you.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Well, that's one of the things we were planning for,
is to make sure that you get a return on
your tax dollars. And as I was just saying in
the last segments, it seems so bizarre, you know, to
middle class people who pay their taxes and check the
boxes and do the righteous things, you know that, Oh
(05:46):
I'm getting something back from the government. Oh, that's really weird.
That must be wrong. I'm not supposed to get anything back.
I'm just supposed to give and give and give. And
then when they tell me I'm selfish and greedy and
terrible for having saved, supposed to accept that too. I'm
supposed to believe that. Okay, you know, really, what kind
(06:08):
of what kind of bizarreness is that? And it is,
but it is true. You know that the system is
kind of set up to make you feel guilty about
having provided everything for everybody else and the idea that
you would get a.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Crumb for yourself.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Oh, oh, you're terrible, you know, because because you saved,
Like what, yeah, I mean, think about it. The only
way that that regular folks don't qualify for medicaid is
that we're stupid, and they saved saving that's the bad thing.
(06:42):
You took the overtime so your retirement would be secure.
And the biggest cost, which you also paid for for
everybody else, right, the biggest cost that you're confronting, the
biggest threat to your security, your spouse's security, is the
long term care, and you already took care of it.
And they're going to tell you, oh, so, how dare
you how dare you get some benefit for what you
(07:03):
paid for. It's just it's it's I think it's frankly immoral.
I think it just it's just absolutely it's a fracture
of the social contract. It's like, you know, if you're paying,
you should get out right and yes, and look, take
it because I worked hard, because I took the overtime.
Go ahead, take more from me, Go ahead, take it.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Take it.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
You tell me how much you want, I'm gonna pay it.
This is how our clients view the thing. It's not
like we like high taxes. Not we like it, but
that's the way it is. Okay, fine, just take but
don't give it ninety percent to build way bandits, don't
you know, don't waste it, which apparently the waste is
like brings tears to your eyes, doesn't it. Anyway, Let's
(07:48):
take care of the long term care. That's the second
thing that your estate plan should do for you, that
your retirement plan should do for you. The third thing
it should do is when you're dead, when you're gone
and see you later, whatever you leave to your kids
should actually get to your kids. And it doesn't happen.
(08:12):
The kids don't even get it.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Now.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
This isn't one hundred percent of the time, but frequently, frequently,
your kid's going through a bankruptcy or a divorce, or
they've got student loan debt, or they co sign the
student loans for your grandkids.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Or all these other things.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
So that when your kids are behind the eight ball
when they could really use the money, right, they could
really use it. Who gets the money. They're creditors, and
it can be planned. You can empower the inheritance to
fuel your kids for the rest protected you can do that.
(08:48):
It's not hard, right well to do it right, okay,
but nobody seems to be doing it. I haven't seen
any estate plans. I haven't seen a single estate plan
other than the ones that I do or the people
I work with have done that include this protection for
the next generation. Why aren't people thinking and they oh,
(09:10):
put them on beneficiary and then it'll avoid probate. Yeah,
it'll avoid probate. It'll also run them into the buzzsaw.
What are you thinking? I'll tell you what they're thinking.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Easy?
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Easy, easy? Is it easy? Yeah, it's easy. Is it stupid? Yeah,
it's really stupid.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Okay, But if you're doing you're thinking about your planning,
ask the question, well, what if my kid is, you know,
in bankruptcy and they get this inheritance? What will happen
to the inheritance? Just ask them that's a simple question, right.
What if my kid is a judgment against them coming
out of a divorce, and then all of a sudden
they get a pile of money?
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Then what whyt you ask them that? Quite?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
When my kids in a car accident? What if my
kid has student loan debt?
Speaker 4 (09:49):
What if? What if?
Speaker 1 (09:51):
You know?
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Because these things, of course never are up and they
never happen. Nobody ever gets divorced during car accidents or
student loans. These things never happen, right, and there was
never a virus that came from a foreign country that
led to sixty percent closure of small business. That didn't
happen either five years ago. Now, okay, so my point
(10:12):
is when you look at a state plan, you should
have your eyes open. You should be doing the things
planning for the things that affect not just you, but
first and foremost you, first and foremost you and your spouse.
If you got one right, let's take care of you first.
But then let's be very intentional about how we benefit
(10:34):
the next generation. There's a fourth factor, the fourth thing
that we address, and we're going to be talking about
that in just a minute when we get back from
the break. You've been listening to the David Carrier Show.
I'm David Carrier, your family's personal retirement law specialists.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Remember when we part the street song.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
So call in now at seven four twenty four. This
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Well, come back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. The four things you should look
for and in state plan number.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
One, follow through, follow up?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Do you is there a process to make sure right
that once you've signed your documents, because you're not done yet.
You're not done yet. You have to follow through to
make sure that everything is has actually been done correctly.
Usually it isn't. But is there a process? What is
the process? How do you make sure that your trust
(11:55):
actually works?
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Okay? And then follow up? What do you do in
the years to come? Okay?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
So are there events that I can go to? Is
there a newsletter comes out every week? Do I have
an opportunity you know that's set in stone where I
can talk to an attorney?
Speaker 4 (12:12):
You know?
Speaker 3 (12:13):
What kind of events do you have going are Do
you have educational events? Do you have do you have
social events? Do you have things that are not just yeah,
listen to the lawyer talk, but are actually kind of
fun and interesting where you can interact with other people
just like you, right, who are doing the same sort
of thing.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Is that even possible? Okay?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Is that available? That's number two? Number three, that's number one,
that's number one, number two, number two?
Speaker 4 (12:42):
What about asset protection?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Asset protection focused primarily on the one threat that middle
class families face, and that is long term care. I mean,
how do you deal with that? And don't tell me, Oh,
it'll be okay when the time comes, or aren't you're
not eligible or something stupid like that. Don't tell me that.
Tell me how you're actually going to deal with the
(13:05):
long term care all right now. Nobody wants to bring
it up, and oh, oh, we're here to avoid probate,
or we don't do that kind of thing. Well, if
you don't do that kind of thing, if your state
plan doesn't address the biggest threat to you, the hell
good is it? Okay, if you die broke, nobody's worried
about avoiding probate, okay. And too many people, middle class
(13:27):
folks do die broke because they didn't look ahead, they
didn't plan for this. And a lot of folks who
have you know, who are upper middle class let's call it,
you know, who are comfortable, what have you, they die
with a lot less than they should, given the fact
that they've paid for the government program like Medicare, like
(13:47):
Social Security. They paid for it, but they get no
benefit from it, which seems to be for most is
what I'm saying. I mean, this is what I've observed.
Most middle class people's like, yeah, I'm get ripped off.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
I get it. That's the deal. Why exactly should it
be the deal? Should it?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Does it have to be that way? I say no, Right,
that's that's number two. Number three, How do we make sure?
What have you done? Ask the lawyer this, what have
you done? So my kids going through bankruptcy when I die?
Use that example because that was the one in the
Supreme Court case where the kid get tagged with got
(14:26):
no money from the IRA, but get tagged with the
tax liability for it. Okay, all right, so you oh beneficiary.
I'll put my kids beneficiary. That's the way to go. Yeah,
what happens if they're going through bankruptcy, Well, the money's
all gone and the kid has to pay the taxes
on the money that they don't have. Uh, thanks a lot,
(14:47):
mom and dad. In that case the Supreme Court case,
I think it was an aunt or uncle who left
the kid the money. But anyway, the point is the
point is there there are there are ways to leave
what you have to the kids so that the kids
actually get it. Okay, you're wrapping in the trust. We
(15:07):
have convicted murderers, you know, other people in prison get that.
I mean, that's that's how extreme it gets, right, if
you've done it correctly, And it's just doing what we
do for everybody. Right, it's just the same thing. It's
not any special truble. Oh you need a special plan. No,
you don't, just do what we do for everybody, because look,
some people get in car accidents. Bad things happen to
(15:29):
people good. You know, COVID happened wiped out sixty percent
of small businesses. Okay, so you know I didn't count
them my I read it somewhere. So how do you
plan for that? The answer is you plan for every
bad thing that might happen. Okay, it's not that big
a deal if you've planned for it. But if you're
(15:51):
going to ignore it and just hope that every day's
a sunny day and then something bad happens, whoah, bad luck. Now,
who's the idiot? Okay, So that's that's number three. The
fourth thing, the fourth thing that is in my opinion,
really very important is the individual retirement account. And when
(16:14):
I say individual retirement account, whether it's traditional, whether it's wrath,
whether it's a four to oh one k, the federal
thrift savings plan for federal employees could be railroad retirement.
If you've got one of those contribution plans. It's all
those it's a four H three b's if you're a
(16:36):
nonprofit four fifty seven, all those retirement plan assets. Because
here's the deal. There's forty trillion dollars. Again, I didn't
count it. I read it somewhere forty trillion dollars supposedly
in retire It's hard to figure, judging from the difficulty
I had finding any reasonable numbers, but forty trillion seems
(16:58):
to be about right. Doesn't seem crazy anyways, forty trillion
dollars in retirement playing assets.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
The richie riches of the world do not have four
to one ks.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
You have them, I have them yet because we're working,
all right, And because we're working, we're putting our money
in the IRA and the four to one K, and
that's how that's how that goes, right. But if you're
Warren Buffett, you don't have a four oh one K
because the treatment, that tax treatment of capital gains is
(17:29):
so much better for you. Okay, So that's that's what
they do, all right. They're they're working their stocks and
their bounds and they're using the capital gain thing. But
for working people, it's four o one K. It's IRA, right,
it's the tax benefit for the middle class that they
(17:49):
have been regretting ever since they gave it to you. Okay,
because wealthy people can't use it. There's a whole bunch
of people, you know, who are just scraping by. They
don't have it either, Okay, So at both ends of
the spectrum, it's not being used the IRA four to
one k, but it's a middle class thing. It's focused.
It's a common sense thing for middle class people to
(18:11):
save taxes. Right And like I say, oh my god,
what were we thinking giving it to these people? Okay,
but that's how it is. And right now there's about
say forty trillion dollars in there. Our debt is what
thirty six thirty seven trillion be thirty seven trillion before
you know it? Not amazing, thirty seven trillion freakin dollars.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
That's unreal.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
That's what will destroy the country. If you're wondering, you're
wondering why it's so important to get that thing under control,
that's spending under control. Because China won't knock us out,
Russia won't knock us out, the Barbary pirates couldn't do it.
But the debt, that's what will choke the life out
of America if you're wondering, Okay, so that's why we
(18:54):
got it. Now, if I got forty trillion dollars over here,
and I got thirty seven trillion dollar debt, why don't
just take that money and move it over all?
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Right?
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Well, that is what's happening, right, Slowly, slowly, but surely
it is happening because.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
The way.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
The way the iras are used, it's not smart. So
when you need long term care right now, you're pulling
large sums of money out of your IRA, it's getting
taxed like crazy because that's where your cash is. Okay,
you got to pull it out to pay the nursing
home until you're broke, because that's what everybody told.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
You to do.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Great, but the taxman is loving it right because you're
pulling it out. It's all income to you in the
year you pull it out. Traditional not roth right, right,
So now they're getting a very high rate of tax
because you're pulling it all out because you saved it,
saved it, saved it. The other way that the taxman
(19:53):
loves it, right is because when you die, your kids
are going to empty the damn thing. And again, pay
the highest possible rate of tax on that distribution. That's
how they're going to get your IRA. They won't put
a they're never going to tax it directly, not going
to tax it in a way that you can actually
see it. What they're going to do is they're going
to wait till disaster or death right. They're counting on
(20:15):
your kids to empty the dang thing, which your kids
were more than happy to do. Or if you need
the long term care, now you've got to pull out
large sums of money ten fifteen thousand dollars a month.
All right, Now you're in the you know, two hundred
thousand of income, three hundred thousand of income. Now you're
paying a high tax rates. That's what's going on with
the IRA. You've been listening to the David Carrier Show.
(20:35):
I'm David Carrier, your family's personal retirement law specialists.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Daughters.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
David's got the how to you're looking for. Just call
seven seven twenty four, twenty four. This is the David
Carrier Show.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Well, come back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. Now's the time to give us
a call. Six one six seven seven four twenty four
twenty four. That's six one six seven seven four twenty
four twenty four. So what are the four things you
should look for when you're doing in estate? Planned retirement
plan is what i'd call it, because this is not
(21:34):
for after death only. This is mostly how do you
live your life? How do you live your life? How
does your spouse live their life?
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Right?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
How do you do that in the in a way
that reflects the effort that you've put into it. Okay,
you're unusual, You've paid off your house, you've got some savings,
you've done the right things. Okay, and it's worked out
for you. You know, I just saw us study. Here's
an interesting idea. You know, people say, well, why is
(22:04):
it that some people succeed in other people don't? And
the first thought this was back in the seventies when
they were they were testing things. It looked like it
looked like there was a very low correlation between success
of the parents versus success of the kids. You know,
families were moving up, down and all around. And then
(22:28):
there was some more studies that were done that suggested
that the mobility wasn't nearly as much as they thought
it was.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
It still exists, but.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Not as much as they as they thought it did.
And what they're doing now, and this is kind of strange,
is they're.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Not expected.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
What they're doing is they're controlling when you control for
all the other factors, right, So they were taking like
kids who were separated at birth from there, you know,
were adopted out, separated birth, identical twins, growing up in
different circumstances, all the rest of it. It turns out
that you know, it's not so much who you know,
(23:06):
it's what your genetics are.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Can you believe that?
Speaker 3 (23:09):
I mean, I've seen a lot of very talented people
who didn't do very much with what they've got. So
I'm having a hard time accepting that, oh, it's all
the genes. But apparently there is a strong correlation between
the reason family histories are the way they are is
(23:30):
not so much that one generation passed wealth to the
next generation.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Although certainly.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I've been out looking at colleges for my son and
it's like, you can't even believe how much it costs.
So I'm got to believe that leaving something for your
kids actually makes a big difference. I think it does.
But the concept is if you look at successful families. Right,
(23:59):
it's more than the money. It's not the money so much.
That's important. Uh, that you're that you're passing on. So anyway,
there's some there's some stuff out there. If you're interested,
I can I can leave a link for it. But anyway,
I thought that was I thought that was pretty cool. Anyway,
here are the four things you're supposed to look at
when you're doing your state plan. Number one, follow through,
(24:20):
follow up. Make sure that what you want actually follows through.
That you're not just giving a book.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
You're not.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
See, this is the big mistake. I think attorneys make
this mistake as well. They think that you're buying a
book of documents, right, and people think they're buying documents,
and it's no, you're not buying documents. That's not the idea.
What you're doing is you're putting together a vision, a plan,
a thought, a way the future is supposed to work.
(24:51):
That's what you're doing. You're putting that together. Okay, the
documents are the way you get there. It's like planning
a trip. Okay, well I have an airplane, Now I
have a trip. No, you don't.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
You have an airplane.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
You have a tool that can help you, or an
automobile or what have you bicycle?
Speaker 4 (25:11):
Right now?
Speaker 3 (25:12):
You write how many raise your hand? If you have
exercise equipment? Okay? Do you have your beach bod?
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Right?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Well, the equipment isn't the body. Okay, The equipment isn't
the accomplishment, right. You got to think about what it
is you want to accomplish, and then the documents can
help you accomplish your goal. But having the documents isn't
the goal. That makes sense, okay, And that's why I
follow through follow up is so it's so important. The
(25:45):
second thing that we do. Second thing and estate plan
should do, in my opinion, is protect you against long
term care. All right, there should be asset protection in
their asset protection, especially against the major thing you're likely
to face, which is the which is the long term care.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Okay, Third thing we should do.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
It was interesting last week, I think it was last week.
We're interacting with one of the continuity of care communities
in town. And what was interesting about it was that
they acknowledged the the effectiveness of the planning that we're doing,
and so they wanted to modify some stuff so in
(26:27):
order to be more compliant with the way that they
did things, but it was it was kind of nice
to get that affirmation from them that yeah, this this
really does work, you know, and so we really need
to do something different in order to come to an
agreement in order to work out in the mutually beneficial way,
which I'm convinced we're going to be doing.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
So it's one of.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Those things that you know, if the question is does
this stuff work, the answer is yeah, and there's all
kinds of validation for it. Okay, but that's the long
term care aspect of it. You've got to be planning
for that. If you're not, you haven't planned it at all.
In my opinion. The third thing has to do with
how do we get stuff to the kids. And I'm
not talking about restricting what the kids can do. I
(27:15):
don't care what the kids do with it. Blow it
if you want to, but it should be the kids,
your beneficiaries, right, your children, your grandchildren, whoever it is.
If that's what you want to empower them to do,
then let's make it their choice. Let's not make it
the choice of an xpouse or the bankruptcy cord or
a car accident or something like this. Let's actually empower them. Right,
(27:39):
because you can do this. The fact that most people
do not do it. They don't even talk about it,
right when you're talking about a plan, don't even talk
about how you can protect the assets for the kids.
But it's a superpower that's built in to your planning,
(28:02):
and most people just blow it off like it was nothing.
And my opinion, you really got to focus on that.
And because people all focus on the wrong thing, they're
all folks on, oh, I've got to avoid probate, so
I'm going to put my kids in everything. If that
isn't insanity, But it's only insanity because you're focused on
avoiding probate instead of effectively getting your stuff to the kids.
(28:26):
D You see, there's a way to do this so
that it's absolutely protected getting it to the kid. The
kids student loans don't count, the kid's bankruptcy doesn't count.
The kid that failed to pay their taxes for the
last twenty years. And finally, the IRS is getting after them. Right,
the IRS cannot take away the inheritance if it's done correctly.
(28:48):
And it's what we've done for over twenty thousand estate plans.
We always build this in. It's not a big deal. Now,
I will admit that as we do our follow up
right when we have people come back in years later,
I always go over this one because it's the one thing.
It's one of the things that people really don't remember
(29:11):
that it's been done this way.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
Now.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
At the same time, the kids can just take it
if they want to. There's a mechanism for that, so
you know, but it is totally protected for the kids.
The fourth thing that that your estate plan should do
when you're talking with somebody is what's so special about iras?
What are you doing to recognize the fact that the
(29:35):
IRA Individual Retirement account, whether it's a four oh one K,
railroad retirement through savings plan, four oh three B, all
those things, right, those are the only middle class tax
break you're gonna get. What have you done to maximize
the only gimme that you're receiving from the government. And
if you're not doing anything to do that, right, then
(29:58):
you're not doing a plan.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
You're doing it.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
I don't know what you're doing, but you're not maximizing
what could be done, what's available to be done under
the rules. You know, if you're gonna leave your kid something,
what was it saying the Bible.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
You know, like you know.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
If your if your kid asks for a loaf, do
you give them a snake? Well, lots of times inheritances
turn into snakes.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
It can be a blessing, it can be a curse,
and it has a lot to do with the way
that you are planning for them to get it right.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
I mean, with the iras.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
There's so much that can be done, and it's not
that hard, right, We're just borrowing things that wealthy people
have done forever in the day and we're applying them
to the regular folks, to the middle class. That's just
common sense, is all it is.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
Really.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
You're listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's retirement law.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
Experties more than blood rustcause.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
David's perking and working and taking your calls. Now, this
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
Or your show.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
I'm David Carrier and your family's personalitarian.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Here we are at the end of another one.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
You still have a lub bit of time if you
want to get a question in sixty one six, seven, seven, four,
twenty four, twenty four, or just call us at the office.
Sixty one six, three, six, one, eighty four hundred or
the eight hundred number, of course, eight hundred, all these numbers,
who's gonna write them all down?
Speaker 4 (31:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Eight hundred three one seven twenty eight twelve, that's eight hundred. Yeah,
that's right. We had an eight hundred number, not one
of these eight eight eight ors eight seven seven, the
real you know, and we've had it forever in a day.
Eight hundred three one seven twenty eight tell that's the number.
Give us a shout, will we will help you out?
(32:05):
Or go to the website of course, David Carrier law
dot com. Now you say, well, these four things that
you talk about, that's all well and good, but who's
going to do them? And the answer is us, right, like,
we're the only ones that are actually doing these things
to my as far as I understand. If somebody else
is doing it, raise your hand. But that's not good enough,
(32:29):
all right. The problem is, frankly, that the middle class
is getting screwed over again because the estate planning that's
being done isn't worthy of the name in my opinion.
Did you think I had somebody else's opinion, Well, this
is my opinion. The stuff that we see it's like,
you know, why would you do it that way? Well,
(32:49):
I understand that it's the customary way to do it. Okay,
that's what I get slammed for. Oh, you're not being customary.
There's not the way it's customarily doing. Yeah, you know,
I look back in my life and they go, Okay,
what exactly was it that I did that was customary?
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Not a whole health a lot.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
And and the point is not that, you know, nobody
says it's bad, all right, it's just, you know, the
criticism is not customary because you know, it's not a
matter of whether you succeed or fail, whether or not
your plan succeeds or fail, whether or not you go
broken long term care, that's customary. Everybody accepts that. And
so if your state plan doesn't work because it didn't
(33:32):
get funded, right, if there's no protection for your kids
so your kids inheritance goes to their creditors. If you
lose out on the amazing the triple your money type
tax benefits that are available through iras, oh well too bad.
You know everybody nobody else's nobody's really it's not customary
(33:54):
to do those things. And so because it's not customary.
There's no problem with it. It's it's say, okay, so
I mean I've always thought that that was just crazy,
and I am getting together have gotten together with some
buddies of mine people have gotten to know over the
years in Pittsburgh and down in Miami, and we've already
(34:18):
you know, we have this thing called we call it
the Red Wagon Club at the office, right. But the
problem with the Red Wagon Club, which is after you've
got the plan done, right, this is how we do
the follow.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Through and follow up is red Wagon Club.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
But what we found and we thought, well, there's got
to be attorneys out there who want to do a
plan that's already set up that they can just you know,
hook on to what they're doing to follow through.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
And follow up. But what we found was.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
There aren't very many people doing it correctly, willing, you know,
to what they want to do. You know, what we
were what we found out was they really want to
re engineer how they're doing their whole law firm. And
so that's what we're doing now. In fact, we've got
four firms that are doing the Red Wagon Club, you know,
(35:08):
across the country, but we've got twenty more twenty twenty
law firms that next month will be starting the training
on how to inculcate these four values, the four things
I've been talking about today, into a comprehensive estate plan
for middle class Americans. You know, I've always said this
is common sense planning for middle class Michigan. While we're
(35:30):
expanding that common sense planning for middle class America because
these four things, these four cornerstones, are the basis for
a solid estate plan. I don't care who you are
or where you live, but I practice here and in Massachusetts.
You know, that's where I'm licensed so far. But the
(35:50):
idea is, what if we partnered, you know, so we're
founding a national law firm. You know, you've seen these
like Keller and Keller, and you know, you get some
peopleeople who've done this for you know, kind of nationalized
divorced practice or personal injury practice. Okay, and we're kind
of modeling ourselves on them, using the same structures. But
(36:14):
instead of you know, oh my god, it's a horrible,
terrible situation. What we're saying, what we're trying to do,
what we are doing is we're reaching out to regular
folks who are doing it regularly because people move around, right,
and if you go from here to another state, well,
the plan still works because it's based on the federal
(36:35):
law regarding these things, regarding the long term care what
have you. So the plan still works. But are you
going to get support where you are? Well, pretty soon
we'll have people in Florida and California and Ohio, and
I already got one guy in Ohio. But we'll have
you know, more and more of this. I think, I
(36:55):
think it'll snowball. The fact is that when we went
from saying, hey, guys, you know, here's something you can
add on to Now, here's how we're going to re
engineer the entire thing, people got a lot more interested,
you know, the attorney's, the law firms got a lot
more interested in incorporating these four tenants, these four cornerstones
(37:18):
of planning right, which is number one, follow through, follow up,
number two, long term care, asset protection, number three, making
sure that your stuff actually gets to the kids or
your beneficiaries. And then number four, treating iras as something
that's very special, very it's a wealth builder. It's a
(37:39):
wealth builder for the middle class. You don't need, you
don't need crazy returns in order to get you know,
percentage returns in order to get amazing results when you're
doing it in a tax free environment versus the typical investment,
the typical taxable investment. So there are a lot of opportunities.
(38:01):
They've cut back on them. Don't get me wrong. I
mean there's a lot of there's some advisors out there,
Oh it's the end of the IRAO is terrible. Well,
they certainly have cut back on it, but it's far
from the end of it. And the harder you make
it work, the better off it's going to benefit you.
And it is regular folks that were focused on because
(38:24):
because I see some people say, I get this pushback
and people like, oh, well you're doing all the super
sophisticated planning and these people don't have very much money,
and it's like, yeah, yeah, idiot, that's why we're doing it.
Because here's the thing. If you've got half a million
dollars and you make a fifty thousand dollars mistake, you've
got a million dollars and you make a two hundred
(38:46):
thousand dollar mistake, right, so you've got a million dollars,
you make a two hundred thousand dollar mistake in terms
of long term care? What have you asset protection whatever? Okay, well,
you're still kind of okay. You know, if you've got
half a million, you make a fifty thousand dollars mistake.
But what if you've got three hundred thousand and you
make a fifty thousand, let alone a two hundred thousand
(39:07):
dollars what I would describe as a mistake, something that
could have been avoided? Right, Well, for crying out loud,
that's ruinous.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
Right.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
So it seems to me, actually that the less that
you have there is a certain minimum, of course, but
beyond the minimum, the less you have, the more important
it is that you make every dollar work as hard
as possible.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
And I'm not talking investments. I don't know about investments,
but the hell do I know about it? That's in p.
Five hundred. That's what I know. You put it there.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
It seems to do okay over time last week accepted.
So come to one of our workshops. Go to the website,
you'll find them there. You've been listening to the David
Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal retirement law
specialist expert.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
I don't know whatever you want to call.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show, a lively
discussion addressing your questions and concerns, but not legal advice.
There is a big difference, so when making decisions that
affect your family, your property, or yourself, the best advice
is to seek good advice specific to your unique needs.
If you missed any of today's show, or would like
additional information about the law offices of David Carrier, please
(40:39):
visit Davidcarrier Law dot com.
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Hello, that was terrible.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carrier Show. You have
found the place where we talk about a state planning,
retirement law, elder law, real estate and business law. So
if you're looking to retire, if you have retired, if
you think about retiring, if you know anybody who's retired.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Now's the time give us a call. Sixty one six
seven seven four twenty four twenty four. That's sixty one
six evan sevent four twenty four twenty four. We'll get
your question, comment or concern on the air. You can
always go to the website David Caarryer Law dot com.
Encourage you to go to the website Davidcarrier Law dot com.
(01:13):
If you hang out on the website for a couple
of seconds, there a an AI bot or AI assistant.
I guess we call them now. Anyway, this thing will
pop up and you can ask it like freeform questions.
It's it really is turned out to be pretty useful.
We're getting a lot of good feedback on it. People
(01:35):
tend to like it.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
It is.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
It's been like I said, it's been useful. But if
you're wondering, oh, you know, what's all that AI stuff about,
well go to Davidcarrier Law dot com and you know,
when the thing pops up, you can there's a little
microphone there. If you have a microphone and computer, you
can click it and just tell it, ask it to
ask it the question and it'll give you. It'll give
(02:01):
you an answer, and it's it's it'll tell you about
the workshops, yes, but really it'll it'll give you some
really good information as well. Okay, so I'm not saying
I mean it is directing you. You know, if you
want a real answer, you know, the complete answer, then
you gotta you know, your specific circumstances have to be
(02:22):
taken into account. But as it is, it is as
it is. The thing is useful, Okay. It's better than
better than paddling around the website looking for stuff.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Just so there you go.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Six one, six, seven, seven four, twenty four, twenty four
that's the number to call. I'm intending to get through
the four things that that you should be looking for
in an a state plan. I started it last hour,
but we got distracted, daring clients calling in, people calling in.
But if you want to call in six one, six, seven, seven, four,
(02:59):
twenty four or twenty four, get me off my get
me off my game. Anyway, the first thing that you
need to do is look for follow through and follow up.
Are you going to be done once you get your documents?
Because your plan is not done when you get your documents.
There has to be followed through. Especially if you're doing
a trust based plan, there has to be followed through
(03:21):
to make sure that the trust that the trust actually works.
This is usually optional or you get a letter that says,
oh here, here's what you're supposed to do, but nobody
ever follows the letter, and so most trusts, I would
say the vast majority of trusts fail on their own
terms because there is no follow through. And then even
(03:42):
if it worked up front, there's no ongoing follow up
and so we send you a you know, we have
events during the year. We have the Red Wagon Club,
which is a way to formally, you know, keep up
with everything. It's fun too, that the Red Wagon club's
more fun than than substance. But both things are important.
(04:06):
I think being together with a community of people who
think the way that you do and have experiences similar
to yours, that's a good thing.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
It's not a bad thing.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
And when you're putting together a plan that's going to
work over the decades, God willing, you will have decades
right for this thing to work for you, protecting your
assets and making sure that things go well. That's the
follow up part of it. The second thing we do
is the whole long term care thing, the one thing
(04:37):
that middle class Michigan that breaks middle class Michigan, middle
class America. What breaks you is not the casino. You
didn't get too many large fountain drinks. Okay, you know,
whatever it is they're thinking now is the bad thing.
That's not what breaks people. What breaks people is the
medical expense, the expenses of long term care, over and
(05:02):
over and over again, thousands of times.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
You see it.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
That's why you sell the cottage, That's why you deplete
your resources all the rest of it. When just like medicaid,
just like excuse me, just like medicare, just like social security.
There is a government program for that that you paid
for that other people.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Are getting, right, but you're not. Why aren't you.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Well, that's one of the things we were planning for,
is to make sure that you get a return on
your tax dollars. And as I was just saying in
the last segments, it seems so bizarre, you know, to
middle class people who pay their taxes and check the
boxes and do the righteous things, you know that, Oh
(05:46):
I'm getting something back from the government. Oh, that's really weird.
That must be wrong. I'm not supposed to get anything back.
I'm just supposed to give and give and give. And
then when they tell me I'm selfish and greedy and
terrible for having saved, supposed to accept that too. I'm
supposed to believe that. Okay, you know, really, what kind
(06:08):
of what kind of bizarreness is that? And it is,
but it is true. You know that the system is
kind of set up to make you feel guilty about
having provided everything for everybody else and the idea that
you would get a.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Crumb for yourself.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Oh, oh, you're terrible, you know, because because you saved,
Like what, yeah, I mean, think about it. The only
way that that regular folks don't qualify for medicaid is
that we're stupid, and they saved saving that's the bad thing.
(06:42):
You took the overtime so your retirement would be secure.
And the biggest cost, which you also paid for for
everybody else, right, the biggest cost that you're confronting, the
biggest threat to your security, your spouse's security, is the
long term care, and you already took care of it.
And they're going to tell you, oh, so, how dare
you how dare you get some benefit for what you
(07:03):
paid for. It's just it's it's I think it's frankly immoral.
I think it just it's just absolutely it's a fracture
of the social contract. It's like, you know, if you're paying,
you should get out right and yes, and look, take
it because I worked hard, because I took the overtime.
Go ahead, take more from me, Go ahead, take it.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Take it.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
You tell me how much you want, I'm gonna pay it.
This is how our clients view the thing. It's not
like we like high taxes. Not we like it, but
that's the way it is. Okay, fine, just take but
don't give it ninety percent to build way bandits, don't
you know, don't waste it, which apparently the waste is
like brings tears to your eyes, doesn't it. Anyway, Let's
(07:48):
take care of the long term care. That's the second
thing that your estate plan should do for you, that
your retirement plan should do for you. The third thing
it should do is when you're dead, when you're gone
and see you later, whatever you leave to your kids
should actually get to your kids. And it doesn't happen.
(08:12):
The kids don't even get it.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Now.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
This isn't one hundred percent of the time, but frequently, frequently,
your kid's going through a bankruptcy or a divorce, or
they've got student loan debt, or they co sign the
student loans for your grandkids.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Or all these other things.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
So that when your kids are behind the eight ball
when they could really use the money, right, they could
really use it. Who gets the money. They're creditors, and
it can be planned. You can empower the inheritance to
fuel your kids for the rest protected you can do that.
(08:48):
It's not hard, right well to do it right, okay,
but nobody seems to be doing it. I haven't seen
any estate plans. I haven't seen a single estate plan
other than the ones that I do or the people
I work with have done that include this protection for
the next generation. Why aren't people thinking and they oh,
(09:10):
put them on beneficiary and then it'll avoid probate. Yeah,
it'll avoid probate. It'll also run them into the buzzsaw.
What are you thinking? I'll tell you what they're thinking.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Easy?
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Easy, easy? Is it easy? Yeah, it's easy. Is it stupid? Yeah,
it's really stupid.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Okay, But if you're doing you're thinking about your planning,
ask the question, well, what if my kid is, you know,
in bankruptcy and they get this inheritance? What will happen
to the inheritance? Just ask them that's a simple question, right.
What if my kid is a judgment against them coming
out of a divorce, and then all of a sudden
they get a pile of money?
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Then what whyt you ask them that? Quite?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
When my kids in a car accident? What if my
kid has student loan debt?
Speaker 4 (09:49):
What if? What if?
Speaker 1 (09:51):
You know?
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Because these things, of course never are up and they
never happen. Nobody ever gets divorced during car accidents or
student loans. These things never happen, right, and there was
never a virus that came from a foreign country that
led to sixty percent closure of small business. That didn't
happen either five years ago. Now, okay, so my point
(10:12):
is when you look at a state plan, you should
have your eyes open. You should be doing the things
planning for the things that affect not just you, but
first and foremost you, first and foremost you and your spouse.
If you got one right, let's take care of you first.
But then let's be very intentional about how we benefit
(10:34):
the next generation. There's a fourth factor, the fourth thing
that we address, and we're going to be talking about
that in just a minute when we get back from
the break. You've been listening to the David Carrier Show.
I'm David Carrier, your family's personal retirement law specialists.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Remember when we part the street song.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
So call in now at seven four twenty four. This
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Well, come back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. The four things you should look
for and in state plan number.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
One, follow through, follow up?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Do you is there a process to make sure right
that once you've signed your documents, because you're not done yet.
You're not done yet. You have to follow through to
make sure that everything is has actually been done correctly.
Usually it isn't. But is there a process? What is
the process? How do you make sure that your trust
(11:55):
actually works?
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Okay? And then follow up? What do you do in
the years to come? Okay?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
So are there events that I can go to? Is
there a newsletter comes out every week? Do I have
an opportunity you know that's set in stone where I
can talk to an attorney?
Speaker 4 (12:12):
You know?
Speaker 3 (12:13):
What kind of events do you have going are Do
you have educational events? Do you have do you have
social events? Do you have things that are not just yeah,
listen to the lawyer talk, but are actually kind of
fun and interesting where you can interact with other people
just like you, right, who are doing the same sort
of thing.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Is that even possible? Okay?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Is that available? That's number two? Number three, that's number one,
that's number one, number two, number two?
Speaker 4 (12:42):
What about asset protection?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Asset protection focused primarily on the one threat that middle
class families face, and that is long term care. I mean,
how do you deal with that? And don't tell me, Oh,
it'll be okay when the time comes, or aren't you're
not eligible or something stupid like that. Don't tell me that.
Tell me how you're actually going to deal with the
(13:05):
long term care all right now. Nobody wants to bring
it up, and oh, oh, we're here to avoid probate,
or we don't do that kind of thing. Well, if
you don't do that kind of thing, if your state
plan doesn't address the biggest threat to you, the hell
good is it? Okay, if you die broke, nobody's worried
about avoiding probate, okay. And too many people, middle class
(13:27):
folks do die broke because they didn't look ahead, they
didn't plan for this. And a lot of folks who
have you know, who are upper middle class let's call it,
you know, who are comfortable, what have you, they die
with a lot less than they should, given the fact
that they've paid for the government program like Medicare, like
(13:47):
Social Security. They paid for it, but they get no
benefit from it, which seems to be for most is
what I'm saying. I mean, this is what I've observed.
Most middle class people's like, yeah, I'm get ripped off.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
I get it. That's the deal. Why exactly should it
be the deal? Should it?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Does it have to be that way? I say no, Right,
that's that's number two. Number three, How do we make sure?
What have you done? Ask the lawyer this, what have
you done? So my kids going through bankruptcy when I die?
Use that example because that was the one in the
Supreme Court case where the kid get tagged with got
(14:26):
no money from the IRA, but get tagged with the
tax liability for it. Okay, all right, so you oh beneficiary.
I'll put my kids beneficiary. That's the way to go. Yeah,
what happens if they're going through bankruptcy, Well, the money's
all gone and the kid has to pay the taxes
on the money that they don't have. Uh, thanks a lot,
(14:47):
mom and dad. In that case the Supreme Court case,
I think it was an aunt or uncle who left
the kid the money. But anyway, the point is the
point is there there are there are ways to leave
what you have to the kids so that the kids
actually get it. Okay, you're wrapping in the trust. We
(15:07):
have convicted murderers, you know, other people in prison get that.
I mean, that's that's how extreme it gets, right, if
you've done it correctly, And it's just doing what we
do for everybody. Right, it's just the same thing. It's
not any special truble. Oh you need a special plan. No,
you don't, just do what we do for everybody, because look,
some people get in car accidents. Bad things happen to
(15:29):
people good. You know, COVID happened wiped out sixty percent
of small businesses. Okay, so you know I didn't count
them my I read it somewhere. So how do you
plan for that? The answer is you plan for every
bad thing that might happen. Okay, it's not that big
a deal if you've planned for it. But if you're
(15:51):
going to ignore it and just hope that every day's
a sunny day and then something bad happens, whoah, bad luck. Now,
who's the idiot? Okay, So that's that's number three. The
fourth thing, the fourth thing that is in my opinion,
really very important is the individual retirement account. And when
(16:14):
I say individual retirement account, whether it's traditional, whether it's wrath,
whether it's a four to oh one k, the federal
thrift savings plan for federal employees could be railroad retirement.
If you've got one of those contribution plans. It's all
those it's a four H three b's if you're a
(16:36):
nonprofit four fifty seven, all those retirement plan assets. Because
here's the deal. There's forty trillion dollars. Again, I didn't
count it. I read it somewhere forty trillion dollars supposedly
in retire It's hard to figure, judging from the difficulty
I had finding any reasonable numbers, but forty trillion seems
(16:58):
to be about right. Doesn't seem crazy anyways, forty trillion
dollars in retirement playing assets.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
The richie riches of the world do not have four
to one ks.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
You have them, I have them yet because we're working,
all right, And because we're working, we're putting our money
in the IRA and the four to one K, and
that's how that's how that goes, right. But if you're
Warren Buffett, you don't have a four oh one K
because the treatment, that tax treatment of capital gains is
(17:29):
so much better for you. Okay, So that's that's what
they do, all right. They're they're working their stocks and
their bounds and they're using the capital gain thing. But
for working people, it's four o one K. It's IRA, right,
it's the tax benefit for the middle class that they
(17:49):
have been regretting ever since they gave it to you. Okay,
because wealthy people can't use it. There's a whole bunch
of people, you know, who are just scraping by. They
don't have it either, Okay, So at both ends of
the spectrum, it's not being used the IRA four to
one k, but it's a middle class thing. It's focused.
It's a common sense thing for middle class people to
(18:11):
save taxes. Right And like I say, oh my god,
what were we thinking giving it to these people? Okay,
but that's how it is. And right now there's about
say forty trillion dollars in there. Our debt is what
thirty six thirty seven trillion be thirty seven trillion before
you know it? Not amazing, thirty seven trillion freakin dollars.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
That's unreal.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
That's what will destroy the country. If you're wondering, you're
wondering why it's so important to get that thing under control,
that's spending under control. Because China won't knock us out,
Russia won't knock us out, the Barbary pirates couldn't do it.
But the debt, that's what will choke the life out
of America if you're wondering, Okay, so that's why we
(18:54):
got it. Now, if I got forty trillion dollars over here,
and I got thirty seven trillion dollar debt, why don't
just take that money and move it over all?
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Right?
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Well, that is what's happening, right, Slowly, slowly, but surely
it is happening because.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
The way.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
The way the iras are used, it's not smart. So
when you need long term care right now, you're pulling
large sums of money out of your IRA, it's getting
taxed like crazy because that's where your cash is. Okay,
you got to pull it out to pay the nursing
home until you're broke, because that's what everybody told.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
You to do.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Great, but the taxman is loving it right because you're
pulling it out. It's all income to you in the
year you pull it out. Traditional not roth right, right,
So now they're getting a very high rate of tax
because you're pulling it all out because you saved it,
saved it, saved it. The other way that the taxman
(19:53):
loves it, right is because when you die, your kids
are going to empty the damn thing. And again, pay
the highest possible rate of tax on that distribution. That's
how they're going to get your IRA. They won't put
a they're never going to tax it directly, not going
to tax it in a way that you can actually
see it. What they're going to do is they're going
to wait till disaster or death right. They're counting on
(20:15):
your kids to empty the dang thing, which your kids
were more than happy to do. Or if you need
the long term care, now you've got to pull out
large sums of money ten fifteen thousand dollars a month.
All right, Now you're in the you know, two hundred
thousand of income, three hundred thousand of income. Now you're
paying a high tax rates. That's what's going on with
the IRA. You've been listening to the David Carrier Show.
(20:35):
I'm David Carrier, your family's personal retirement law specialists.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Daughters.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
David's got the how to you're looking for. Just call
seven seven twenty four, twenty four. This is the David
Carrier Show.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Well, come back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. Now's the time to give us
a call. Six one six seven seven four twenty four
twenty four. That's six one six seven seven four twenty
four twenty four. So what are the four things you
should look for when you're doing in estate? Planned retirement
plan is what i'd call it, because this is not
(21:34):
for after death only. This is mostly how do you
live your life? How do you live your life? How
does your spouse live their life?
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Right?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
How do you do that in the in a way
that reflects the effort that you've put into it. Okay,
you're unusual, You've paid off your house, you've got some savings,
you've done the right things. Okay, and it's worked out
for you. You know, I just saw us study. Here's
an interesting idea. You know, people say, well, why is
(22:04):
it that some people succeed in other people don't? And
the first thought this was back in the seventies when
they were they were testing things. It looked like it
looked like there was a very low correlation between success
of the parents versus success of the kids. You know,
families were moving up, down and all around. And then
(22:28):
there was some more studies that were done that suggested
that the mobility wasn't nearly as much as they thought
it was.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
It still exists, but.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Not as much as they as they thought it did.
And what they're doing now, and this is kind of strange,
is they're.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Not expected.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
What they're doing is they're controlling when you control for
all the other factors, right, So they were taking like
kids who were separated at birth from there, you know,
were adopted out, separated birth, identical twins, growing up in
different circumstances, all the rest of it. It turns out
that you know, it's not so much who you know,
(23:06):
it's what your genetics are.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Can you believe that?
Speaker 3 (23:09):
I mean, I've seen a lot of very talented people
who didn't do very much with what they've got. So
I'm having a hard time accepting that, oh, it's all
the genes. But apparently there is a strong correlation between
the reason family histories are the way they are is
(23:30):
not so much that one generation passed wealth to the
next generation.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Although certainly.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I've been out looking at colleges for my son and
it's like, you can't even believe how much it costs.
So I'm got to believe that leaving something for your
kids actually makes a big difference. I think it does.
But the concept is if you look at successful families. Right,
(23:59):
it's more than the money. It's not the money so much.
That's important. Uh, that you're that you're passing on. So anyway,
there's some there's some stuff out there. If you're interested,
I can I can leave a link for it. But anyway,
I thought that was I thought that was pretty cool. Anyway,
here are the four things you're supposed to look at
when you're doing your state plan. Number one, follow through,
(24:20):
follow up. Make sure that what you want actually follows through.
That you're not just giving a book.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
You're not.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
See, this is the big mistake. I think attorneys make
this mistake as well. They think that you're buying a
book of documents, right, and people think they're buying documents,
and it's no, you're not buying documents. That's not the idea.
What you're doing is you're putting together a vision, a plan,
a thought, a way the future is supposed to work.
(24:51):
That's what you're doing. You're putting that together. Okay, the
documents are the way you get there. It's like planning
a trip. Okay, well I have an airplane, Now I
have a trip. No, you don't.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
You have an airplane.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
You have a tool that can help you, or an
automobile or what have you bicycle?
Speaker 4 (25:11):
Right now?
Speaker 3 (25:12):
You write how many raise your hand? If you have
exercise equipment? Okay? Do you have your beach bod?
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Right?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Well, the equipment isn't the body. Okay, The equipment isn't
the accomplishment, right. You got to think about what it
is you want to accomplish, and then the documents can
help you accomplish your goal. But having the documents isn't
the goal. That makes sense, okay, And that's why I
follow through follow up is so it's so important. The
(25:45):
second thing that we do. Second thing and estate plan
should do, in my opinion, is protect you against long
term care. All right, there should be asset protection in
their asset protection, especially against the major thing you're likely
to face, which is the which is the long term care.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Okay, Third thing we should do.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
It was interesting last week, I think it was last week.
We're interacting with one of the continuity of care communities
in town. And what was interesting about it was that
they acknowledged the the effectiveness of the planning that we're doing,
and so they wanted to modify some stuff so in
(26:27):
order to be more compliant with the way that they
did things, but it was it was kind of nice
to get that affirmation from them that yeah, this this
really does work, you know, and so we really need
to do something different in order to come to an
agreement in order to work out in the mutually beneficial way,
which I'm convinced we're going to be doing.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
So it's one of.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Those things that you know, if the question is does
this stuff work, the answer is yeah, and there's all
kinds of validation for it. Okay, but that's the long
term care aspect of it. You've got to be planning
for that. If you're not, you haven't planned it at all.
In my opinion. The third thing has to do with
how do we get stuff to the kids. And I'm
not talking about restricting what the kids can do. I
(27:15):
don't care what the kids do with it. Blow it
if you want to, but it should be the kids,
your beneficiaries, right, your children, your grandchildren, whoever it is.
If that's what you want to empower them to do,
then let's make it their choice. Let's not make it
the choice of an xpouse or the bankruptcy cord or
a car accident or something like this. Let's actually empower them. Right,
(27:39):
because you can do this. The fact that most people
do not do it. They don't even talk about it,
right when you're talking about a plan, don't even talk
about how you can protect the assets for the kids.
But it's a superpower that's built in to your planning,
(28:02):
and most people just blow it off like it was nothing.
And my opinion, you really got to focus on that.
And because people all focus on the wrong thing, they're
all folks on, oh, I've got to avoid probate, so
I'm going to put my kids in everything. If that
isn't insanity, But it's only insanity because you're focused on
avoiding probate instead of effectively getting your stuff to the kids.
(28:26):
D You see, there's a way to do this so
that it's absolutely protected getting it to the kid. The
kids student loans don't count, the kid's bankruptcy doesn't count.
The kid that failed to pay their taxes for the
last twenty years. And finally, the IRS is getting after them. Right,
the IRS cannot take away the inheritance if it's done correctly.
(28:48):
And it's what we've done for over twenty thousand estate plans.
We always build this in. It's not a big deal. Now,
I will admit that as we do our follow up
right when we have people come back in years later,
I always go over this one because it's the one thing.
It's one of the things that people really don't remember
(29:11):
that it's been done this way.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
Now.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
At the same time, the kids can just take it
if they want to. There's a mechanism for that, so
you know, but it is totally protected for the kids.
The fourth thing that that your estate plan should do
when you're talking with somebody is what's so special about iras?
What are you doing to recognize the fact that the
(29:35):
IRA Individual Retirement account, whether it's a four oh one K,
railroad retirement through savings plan, four oh three B, all
those things, right, those are the only middle class tax
break you're gonna get. What have you done to maximize
the only gimme that you're receiving from the government. And
if you're not doing anything to do that, right, then
(29:58):
you're not doing a plan.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
You're doing it.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
I don't know what you're doing, but you're not maximizing
what could be done, what's available to be done under
the rules. You know, if you're gonna leave your kid something,
what was it saying the Bible.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
You know, like you know.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
If your if your kid asks for a loaf, do
you give them a snake? Well, lots of times inheritances
turn into snakes.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
It can be a blessing, it can be a curse,
and it has a lot to do with the way
that you are planning for them to get it right.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
I mean, with the iras.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
There's so much that can be done, and it's not
that hard, right, We're just borrowing things that wealthy people
have done forever in the day and we're applying them
to the regular folks, to the middle class. That's just
common sense, is all it is.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
Really.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
You're listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's retirement law.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
Experties more than blood rustcause.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
David's perking and working and taking your calls. Now, this
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
Or your show.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
I'm David Carrier and your family's personalitarian.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Here we are at the end of another one.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
You still have a lub bit of time if you
want to get a question in sixty one six, seven, seven, four,
twenty four, twenty four, or just call us at the office.
Sixty one six, three, six, one, eighty four hundred or
the eight hundred number, of course, eight hundred, all these numbers,
who's gonna write them all down?
Speaker 4 (31:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Eight hundred three one seven twenty eight twelve, that's eight hundred. Yeah,
that's right. We had an eight hundred number, not one
of these eight eight eight ors eight seven seven, the
real you know, and we've had it forever in a day.
Eight hundred three one seven twenty eight tell that's the number.
Give us a shout, will we will help you out?
(32:05):
Or go to the website of course, David Carrier law
dot com. Now you say, well, these four things that
you talk about, that's all well and good, but who's
going to do them? And the answer is us, right, like,
we're the only ones that are actually doing these things
to my as far as I understand. If somebody else
is doing it, raise your hand. But that's not good enough,
(32:29):
all right. The problem is, frankly, that the middle class
is getting screwed over again because the estate planning that's
being done isn't worthy of the name in my opinion.
Did you think I had somebody else's opinion, Well, this
is my opinion. The stuff that we see it's like,
you know, why would you do it that way? Well,
(32:49):
I understand that it's the customary way to do it. Okay,
that's what I get slammed for. Oh, you're not being customary.
There's not the way it's customarily doing. Yeah, you know,
I look back in my life and they go, Okay,
what exactly was it that I did that was customary?
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Not a whole health a lot.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
And and the point is not that, you know, nobody
says it's bad, all right, it's just, you know, the
criticism is not customary because you know, it's not a
matter of whether you succeed or fail, whether or not
your plan succeeds or fail, whether or not you go
broken long term care, that's customary. Everybody accepts that. And
so if your state plan doesn't work because it didn't
(33:32):
get funded, right, if there's no protection for your kids
so your kids inheritance goes to their creditors. If you
lose out on the amazing the triple your money type
tax benefits that are available through iras, oh well too bad.
You know everybody nobody else's nobody's really it's not customary
(33:54):
to do those things. And so because it's not customary.
There's no problem with it. It's it's say, okay, so
I mean I've always thought that that was just crazy,
and I am getting together have gotten together with some
buddies of mine people have gotten to know over the
years in Pittsburgh and down in Miami, and we've already
(34:18):
you know, we have this thing called we call it
the Red Wagon Club at the office, right. But the
problem with the Red Wagon Club, which is after you've
got the plan done, right, this is how we do
the follow.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Through and follow up is red Wagon Club.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
But what we found and we thought, well, there's got
to be attorneys out there who want to do a
plan that's already set up that they can just you know,
hook on to what they're doing to follow through.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
And follow up. But what we found was.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
There aren't very many people doing it correctly, willing, you know,
to what they want to do. You know, what we
were what we found out was they really want to
re engineer how they're doing their whole law firm. And
so that's what we're doing now. In fact, we've got
four firms that are doing the Red Wagon Club, you know,
(35:08):
across the country, but we've got twenty more twenty twenty
law firms that next month will be starting the training
on how to inculcate these four values, the four things
I've been talking about today, into a comprehensive estate plan
for middle class Americans. You know, I've always said this
is common sense planning for middle class Michigan. While we're
(35:30):
expanding that common sense planning for middle class America because
these four things, these four cornerstones, are the basis for
a solid estate plan. I don't care who you are
or where you live, but I practice here and in Massachusetts.
You know, that's where I'm licensed so far. But the
(35:50):
idea is, what if we partnered, you know, so we're
founding a national law firm. You know, you've seen these
like Keller and Keller, and you know, you get some
peopleeople who've done this for you know, kind of nationalized
divorced practice or personal injury practice. Okay, and we're kind
of modeling ourselves on them, using the same structures. But
(36:14):
instead of you know, oh my god, it's a horrible,
terrible situation. What we're saying, what we're trying to do,
what we are doing is we're reaching out to regular
folks who are doing it regularly because people move around, right,
and if you go from here to another state, well,
the plan still works because it's based on the federal
(36:35):
law regarding these things, regarding the long term care what
have you. So the plan still works. But are you
going to get support where you are? Well, pretty soon
we'll have people in Florida and California and Ohio, and
I already got one guy in Ohio. But we'll have
you know, more and more of this. I think, I
(36:55):
think it'll snowball. The fact is that when we went
from saying, hey, guys, you know, here's something you can
add on to Now, here's how we're going to re
engineer the entire thing, people got a lot more interested,
you know, the attorney's, the law firms got a lot
more interested in incorporating these four tenants, these four cornerstones
(37:18):
of planning right, which is number one, follow through, follow up,
number two, long term care, asset protection, number three, making
sure that your stuff actually gets to the kids or
your beneficiaries. And then number four, treating iras as something
that's very special, very it's a wealth builder. It's a
(37:39):
wealth builder for the middle class. You don't need, you
don't need crazy returns in order to get you know,
percentage returns in order to get amazing results when you're
doing it in a tax free environment versus the typical investment,
the typical taxable investment. So there are a lot of opportunities.
(38:01):
They've cut back on them. Don't get me wrong. I
mean there's a lot of there's some advisors out there,
Oh it's the end of the IRAO is terrible. Well,
they certainly have cut back on it, but it's far
from the end of it. And the harder you make
it work, the better off it's going to benefit you.
And it is regular folks that were focused on because
(38:24):
because I see some people say, I get this pushback
and people like, oh, well you're doing all the super
sophisticated planning and these people don't have very much money,
and it's like, yeah, yeah, idiot, that's why we're doing it.
Because here's the thing. If you've got half a million
dollars and you make a fifty thousand dollars mistake, you've
got a million dollars and you make a two hundred
(38:46):
thousand dollar mistake, right, so you've got a million dollars,
you make a two hundred thousand dollar mistake in terms
of long term care? What have you asset protection whatever? Okay, well,
you're still kind of okay. You know, if you've got
half a million, you make a fifty thousand dollars mistake.
But what if you've got three hundred thousand and you
make a fifty thousand, let alone a two hundred thousand
(39:07):
dollars what I would describe as a mistake, something that
could have been avoided? Right, Well, for crying out loud,
that's ruinous.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
Right.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
So it seems to me, actually that the less that
you have there is a certain minimum, of course, but
beyond the minimum, the less you have, the more important
it is that you make every dollar work as hard
as possible.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
And I'm not talking investments. I don't know about investments,
but the hell do I know about it? That's in p.
Five hundred. That's what I know. You put it there.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
It seems to do okay over time last week accepted.
So come to one of our workshops. Go to the website,
you'll find them there. You've been listening to the David
Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal retirement law
specialist expert.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
I don't know whatever you want to call.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show, a lively
discussion addressing your questions and concerns, but not legal advice.
There is a big difference, so when making decisions that
affect your family, your property, or yourself, the best advice
is to seek good advice specific to your unique needs.
If you missed any of today's show, or would like
additional information about the law offices of David Carrier, please
(40:39):
visit Davidcarrier Law dot com.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com