February 17, 2025 • 42 mins
Want to attract high-value clients and scale your business without paid ads? In this episode, Jamar Jones sits down with Amy Wills, CEO and co-founder of WOOF Social, to break down the exact LinkedIn and social media marketing strategies she’s used to help global brands grow their reach and revenue.
Amy has worked with Fortune 500 companies, major healthcare organizations, and global brands.what’s even more impressive? Every single client she’s landed has come through LinkedIn—without cold outreach or sales pitches.
In this episode, Amy reveals:
✅ How she grew her marketing agency using ONLY LinkedIn
✅ Why most businesses waste money on ads (and what to do instead)
✅ How to turn LinkedIn lurkers into paying clients
✅ The storytelling secret that makes content go viral
✅ How to scale your brand with authentic engagement—no gimmicks
Beyond strategy, Amy talks about her journey from corporate to entrepreneurship, the mindset shifts needed for business success, and how her bold, no-BS approach to branding led to WOOF Social. She also shares details about her new podcast, WOOF Unleashed, and why she’s always looking for more speaking opportunities across the U.S.
If you're a business owner, entrepreneur, or marketer looking to master LinkedIn marketing, social media growth, and organic lead generation, this episode is packed with practical insights you can apply right now.
🔔 Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and turn on notifications for more expert interviews on marketing, branding, and business growth!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Every single client I've got, though, has come from
a LinkedIn post.
Every single one has been aworker.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Every single one has been linked, every single one
has been linked in every singleone and not just like small
clients.
You gotta talk about that one.
So every client has been linkedin.
How are they reaching?
Are they shooting you a DM?
Is that what's happening?
What's going on, Amy?
(00:34):
How you doing I'm good, how areyou?
I'm good, I'm totally survivingright now.
Right, I've had the mostcraziest week last week in Times
Square, but it's, I'm justcatching up.
I'm catching up with likeeverything.
I've only had like a day ofcatching up with stuff, and then
(00:57):
we have this amazing podcastgoing on today.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Look at this, Look at this.
I mean, I don't know that Iquite follow up like personal
branding in Times Square but, wecan all do that.
I'm going with it.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Oh, you're going to follow up in your own unique way
.
It's going to be absolutelyincredible, absolutely
incredible, as people arefiltered in the room.
Okay, so let everybody know whoyou are and what you do.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I am Amy Wills.
I am the co-founder and CEO ofWolf Social Marketing, where we
work with businesses of allshapes and sizes in different
industries to make their mark intheir own little digital space.
And why Wolf?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Why is it Wolf?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Well, are we talking about this live?
Are we good with this?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, yeah, we can go live.
Yeah, let's do it Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
So here in the deep South we have, you know, all the
things that are and are notconsidered okay and appropriate.
And so I say colorful wordssometimes Four letter words are
not unheard around here.
Colorful words sometimesfour-letter words are not
(02:08):
unheard around here.
And I used to use the hashtagappropriate af on a lot of
things and got got into troublewith a um, non-profit, like
charity volunteer group that Iwas a part of.
They lost their marbles overthis hashtag.
It's not allowed, it's notprofessional, it's not ladylike.
I ah, it's kind of like the waymy whole personal brand has
(02:29):
gone.
It's fine, it's not bringingthe group down at all, it's just
my stuff, it's all personal,it's all private.
Lost their minds and so had afalling out there.
So whenever we started Wolf itwas a you know, let's just kind
of have a little nod to that.
So Wolf stands for we, we'reout of fucks.
(02:50):
And every time I see it I'mjust like, oh look, look where
we started and then look wherewe are.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And it's great so that's it.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Do all your clients know that, and it's great, and
it's great.
So that's it.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Do all your clients know that Most of them do Not
all of them.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
But the ones that know it are like.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Of course, that makes total sense Because a lot of
our clients have been followingfor a long time.
They were lurkers for a reallylong time so they saw the
hashtag appropriate AF.
And they were lurkers a reallylong time so they saw the
hashtag appropriate AF and theywould call.
You know, they were Larkers fora long time, but whenever they
did finally reach out, it was I.
You know, I think your contentis so good because it always
(03:32):
adds value.
It helps me with this, itanswers a question, whatever,
and then it's so funny to seeappropriate AF, like we get to
see some personality in there,and so you go oh, thanks.
So they're like I'm finding mypeople that way.
So no, are okay with it.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
That's good.
Look, if Gary Vee can get awaywith dropping F-bombs every five
seconds and building, you knowwhat?
I think he says like 300 or$400 million agency that he's at
right now, like it's possible,right oh?
Speaker 1 (04:01):
absolutely Well, and it's just one of those of like
it's possible, right?
Oh, absolutely Well, and it'sjust one of those of like if
you're around me, 24 seven am I,are you never, ever going to
hear that?
No, absolutely, you're going tohear that.
You're going to hear it at somepoint, either in a good way, a
bad way, whatever, but it's justunrealistic to be like here.
Let's completely cut this sideof my personality out.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Like.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I can be mindful of.
Like there's a time and a place.
But if you're like that's adeal breaker, four letter words
can't do it, then I'm not yourperson and I'm okay with it.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
So well, this is the.
This is the perfect podcast totalk about that kind of stuff
because, uh, on the Foreverpodcast, it's all about your
brand, your business, um, and,honestly, we got all walks of
life, all different types ofpeople that have been on this
podcast, so I don't think ouraudience is going to take
offense in any way, shape orform to what you're saying.
(04:56):
So first, I want to talk aboutyour transition from, about your
transition from before you hadyour business to having your
business.
So I want to talk about, likewhat that?
Speaker 1 (05:16):
transition was like and how did you, how did you
take the leap?
Oh, it was terrifying.
Okay, so the people I feel likethis is important to note that
it was terrifying and the wholething.
I was like am I doing the rightthing?
Because you see so many postsof people that are like I left
my corporate job and I'vestarted everything and it's been
amazing and it's allbutterflies and rainbows.
It was terrifying, and it wasone of those where I wasn't
(05:38):
wildly unhappy where I was.
It was just one of those of, ifI'm doing this for one place
and I'm just you know, ifthere's any resistance at all
like, imagine what I could bedoing on my own, um, and so it
got to a point where I was kindof unhappy.
So let's, let's do this thing.
I've been doing freelance stuff.
I enjoyed it, um, was I killingit?
(05:59):
No, absolutely not.
I was not by any means like, oh,I can easily drop this and go
full time on my own and have noproblems, like no hesitations.
So it was terrifying, made thetransition and it was a.
I mean, it wasn't a strugglenecessarily, but it was one of
those where you go okay, we'redoing this.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, the hustle is real let's go yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
But it was good.
I mean, it was a good thingOnce you kind of take that leap
of faith and realize you'reputting all your bets on
yourself as cliche as thatsounds, but it was good.
And it was one of those whereyou find out real quick, like,
what you are good at, what youaren't good at, what you would
rather pull your own eyelids offthan have to do like you learn
all of those.
(06:43):
And so even I mean even if fiveyears from now wolf social
isn't a success and we're notkilling it, I feel like I've
learned just a shit ton aboutmyself.
So you go.
If I had to go back to thecorporate world, I would go back
a completely different personthan I was when I left.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
So it's very interesting, isn't that?
Like when you go into businessfor yourself and then you think
back like, oh man, like who, whowould I have been now going
back into business?
Or going back working for anorganization?
I know I was telling my uh goodfriend of mine but he was also
(07:22):
a former boss of mine back whenI used to work in IT and I told
him, like man, I would be amonster like if I went back and
worked at the same place, likewith what I know now.
Like I, like there's no levelof like insecurity, there's no
level of oh my God, they're inthat position.
(07:44):
So you know, like I'm a littleweary of how I say things or how
I do things, like I mean,there's always politics and
everything that, that that we do.
Even in business there arecertain levels of how you got to
read the room, kind of thing,but it just the confidence level
would be like at its ultimatehigh.
(08:05):
If I went back, I would rip itup.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I feel like the confidence and also like the
just empathy Cause I feel like alot of times, um, and I don't
know about you, but whenever Iwas working in a different
setting with other people, it'sso easy to get frustrated about
like, oh my gosh, I'm doing allthese things, why aren't you?
And so now, being the person,that is the okay, now I'm in
charge and you go, I have alittle bit more empathy for,
(08:31):
like my bosses in thosesituations, and the people
around me, but also very muchlike the confidence level of
come on, like pick it up alittle.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Exactly, exactly, um how?
How?
Um now growing your businessnow with, um with Wolf social,
uh, social marketing, um what?
What's been the best way toacquire clients for you?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Um, through my own content.
So I am super active onLinkedIn.
I'm pretty active on, you know,across the planet.
I have TikTok, but it's neverabout like trying to sell
anything, like I'm just doing myown thing.
I talk about things that I careabout, stuff like that, and mix
in business, but I'm never likethe hard sell of taking new
(09:23):
clients.
You know nothing like that.
Every single client I've got,though, has come from a LinkedIn
post.
Every single one has been aworker.
Every single one has beenLinkedIn Every single one has
been LinkedIn, every single one,and not just like small clients
.
We got to talk about that, yeah, we got to, we got to talk
about that Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
So every client has been LinkedIn.
How are they reaching?
Are they shooting you a DM?
Is that what's happening?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
No.
So a lot of them I would say a90% weren't even connected to me
, so they were never on my radar.
Like they're not engaging,they're not liking things,
they're not viewing my profilenever saw them, but they would
send emails Like they would gowebsite or to my page, find my
email and they here let's sendan email and it would be a.
(10:12):
I didn't want to send you a DMbecause I've never engaged, I've
been following you for whateveramount of time and they would
reference posts of like I sawthis one and it answered this
question, or I saw that one.
I think every single, everysingle one.
It's been crazy.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Wow, wow, so they're.
So they're going to yourwebsite and shooting you an
email or an inquiry through thewebsite, and what do you think
is driving that action for themto do that?
Is that through just contentthat you're posting?
Is that through your speakingengagements?
Is that through like what?
What on LinkedIn do you feellike is really resonating for
(10:47):
them to actually make thataction to, to send you a message
?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
So cause I've tried to figure this out on a few
because you know, initially Iwas like I'm not that cool.
Why are people sending memessages?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Come on, you're pretty cool Come on.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
No, but like, I feel like, and it's never okay.
So every, every message thatI've gotten, you know, has been
directly tied to a link.
None of the posts are everbusiness Like.
They're never posts that Iwould feel like are business
related or value ads.
And so it's one of those of hey, you made it, it's like I've
made it easy for them to go tostart a conversation.
Hey, here's like an icebreaker,here's an easy segue.
(11:28):
So it's not like they're havingto ask for help or say they
need anything right out of thegate, but they're also not
having to do this.
So tell me about you.
Like, yeah, I've given them anopportunity to know what it
would be like to talk to me, andit it's been.
So it's been really nice,because I've never, like as a
company, we've never sent outany outbound messaging, we've
(11:50):
never done any kind of salespitch, like every single client
has been an inbound thing soyeah, is that?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
what?
Is that what you teach yourclients when you're working?
With them on social marketing,like to just give, give, give
and you know, really sharestories or like what's, what's
your framework, that you, thatyou teach?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
all of our so with all our clients, because you
know a lot of them too.
Are these mega companies likewe have a couple of global
companies that you go?
This is insane, but like we've,like that we've reached you
want to name drop a couple?
I wish there's, they're bigenough that we have ndas with
all of them, and it's even thatboggles my mind that I'm like,
oh, my god, uh, I made a randomlinkedin post and here we are.
(12:37):
How did we get here?
um yeah is really cool, though,but, like with all of them, you
know they've got these hugebudgets that they, whenever they
bring us on it's that they'vebeen running, like what?
They've been throwing money adsand they've been doing all this
, and I mean we're talking likesix figure budgets just for,
like, linkedin ads, which isinsane to me.
And so we go back through andrebuild their strategies with a
(13:01):
okay, let's replicate this kindof a system so that people are
getting inbound, so they'regetting more inbound messages,
just because those are betterleads, like it's people that
want to be talking to you.
So it's not a okay, we're goingto shoot this net out to a
thousand and hope that we catchone.
They're getting hundreds comingto them, which is fantastic,
(13:21):
but, yeah, we teach them how tobe approachable, how to build an
engagement strategy as part oftheir content plan, and for a
lot of them, we've completelyeliminated any paid advertising
or PR.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
So you're organic.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, it's all organic.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
So you're organic.
Yeah, it's all organic.
Okay, so let me ask you.
So when I was in Times Squarelast week, we had an amazing
individual on the podcast that Ialso met for the first time,
which her name was Jennifer andshe runs a company called the Ad
Girls Right, and so she's allabout ads and running paid ads
(14:02):
and she's not really a big Iwould say she's not a very big
believer.
We were all shocked.
So we were all sitting aroundthe table in the studio and when
she was like I just don'tbelieve, like she just hasn't
really learned the organic likeway of marketing on social and
she just really believes in paid, and she had a kind of she
stated her case and all thatstuff, and everybody around the
(14:23):
table was like oh my God, likewe have never heard somebody say
that.
So this is going to be awesome,because what I'm going to do is
I'm going to try to drop thatepisode and then drop this
episode and I'm going to havethe battle and I may chop up the
content, but this is so.
Why do you agree that organic isbetter than paid?
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yes, because with paid you can and I'm not saying
that paid is wrong for somepeople Like, if you've got a
product sale and it is all about, like, getting to the masses,
do it, that's fine.
But I feel like with organicyou're forced to try harder.
If that makes sense, like withads, I can, it can be subpar,
(15:05):
but I can throw money at it andit's going to land in front of
somebody.
With organic it's one of thoseof if I want engagement, I'm
going to have to make itengaging.
So maybe I've tried somethingthat I think is great and it
falls flat, okay.
Well then, that didn't workwith our audience.
Let's dig deeper and get toknow them better, and so that
that process of digging deeper,you just you end up knowing
(15:30):
exactly what your audience wantsto hear and it's like you have
a completely seamless like.
This is going to work everysingle time, as long as this is
what we're trying to achieve.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
So I love it.
So I agree, I agree with you.
I think I think both can exist.
So for instance like ifsomeone's running ads, you're
going to then go on your socialpage and see well, who are you,
you know.
So, like, the organic side ofit, I think, is the like you
(16:02):
need a foundational base becausepeople are going to do their
own research, and that's alsowhat the organic content can
help with.
But the ad can be very, youknow, strategic and targeted and
at least have people introducedto them, you know, and say, hey
, I'm over here, this is what Igot going on, and if you want to
(16:23):
learn a little bit more, thengo through the organic.
I mean, and both can alsocoexist together.
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
That's kind of my belief, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I don't think that you can rely.
Okay, so I love organic, that'swhat we teach our clients.
We have clients now that arewanting to do ads and that's
great and we're like let's testthem.
Then, once we get into a rhythm, let's find you somebody that
that's what they specialize in,so that you can nail that side
too.
But yeah, I think that you needboth because and I feel that way
, the same way I feel aboutsocial media in general like, do
(16:57):
I believe it heavily in socialmedia marketing, absolutely?
Do I think that you are goingto reach all of your goals if
you only use social mediamarketing?
No, not at all, because noteverybody's on social media for
the same.
Like, I just think that youneed other components.
So the same thing with organicversus paid.
Organic is amazing for reachingthe audience that you have and
(17:20):
you know having that foundation.
Like you talked about,sometimes you need more eyeballs
.
Let's do paid to bring them in.
But you can't just do paid,because the people that try to
do just paid sometimes go backto a shell where you go you
don't have any other content.
It was just an ad.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, no, no, exactly, yeah, exactly,
Exactly.
So Stacklist just said agree,100%, and you get more authentic
new users that also want to bethere.
Yeah, 100%, 100%.
And the goal is to buildsomething where they know, like
(17:56):
and trust you.
That's the.
That's the goal, Um, with anytype of marketing.
Um, one thing I was gonna uhask you, like, what is the best
uh way for someone to grow anaudience on social Like?
And I want you to try to be astactical as possible.
So like if you want to get nerdyand get geeky for a second?
(18:19):
Um, it's all good, it's allgood, but like what have you
seen perform really well to growan audience on social?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
So it depends on one what kind of audience you're
wanting to grow.
Because you know, like for me,I'm on LinkedIn.
I want to grow on LinkedIn.
For other people, instagram'sthe place for them.
So, step one figure out whereyou need to be.
You do not have to beeverywhere.
I feel like a lot of peopleskip that step one.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
They're like we're going to have everything.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
We've got X, we've got Pinterest, we're somehow
trying to thrive on TikTok.
You go pick a spot until youfigure out exactly where your
spot is and then lean into that.
That's step one.
And then two for building anaudience One you have to have
this organic content put outyour content, find what's
working with your audience, andthen you have to talk to them.
(19:08):
I mean, otherwise all you are isjust like consumption content,
where people are going to readit and go, okay, cool, well,
that didn't, that's it.
It's kind of like so you wantto have things where they're
wanting to talk to you, theywant to be involved, they want
to feel like they can tell otherpeople about you and you're
going to answer that person'squestions and things like that.
(19:30):
So offering consistency and Ifeel like consistency for a lot
of people.
They're like okay, so postevery day.
No, oh my gosh, just have likea common theme almost of if I
recommend your brand to somebodyand say they're the best, I
think they're hilarious, andthen you're posting sad shit,
random days.
(19:51):
They're gonna be like why didyou recommend?
they're not funny at all, likeyou have to have some
consistency in there as far aswhat people can expect, and I
think that is so.
Consistency and engagement aremy two biggest like.
That's how you grow an audienceand get them to bring people
with them.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So, on LinkedIn, what's better?
Video or photos or just text?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Okay, so videos right now are being treated better.
They love videos becausefinally, they started their own
little like video feed.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
So they're really.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
They want everybody to do yeah, they want everyone
doing video.
So if you're into video, that'sperfect for you.
Now is the time what a time, um, but I tell people, because
there are some people, like someof the clients that we work
with, that they would ratherjump off of a bridge than do
video content and you go thendon't.
Then don't do that for you.
(20:49):
Do text posts, build youraudience a little bit, then then
mix in some pictures and thenmaybe we'll grow up and then you
can do video.
But the best kind of content iswhatever you are most
comfortable with and you knowyou can do consistently yeah,
yeah, for sure, for sure, yeah,it's, it's all about.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
I mean, the name of the game is.
I mean, people always want tofind the hacks and and what
works, what doesn't work, butoftentimes if you knock on the
door long enough it's gonna open.
So, yeah, just being consistent, um, sometimes is the best
thing, and not get uh analysisby paralysis, so like not
(21:30):
getting so concerned with howall everything operates.
I just, uh, this thing crackedme up I.
So there was a video andspeaking of uh, I know we talked
about gary veee in thebeginning, about him cursing up
a storm, but he had put, he didsome live stream or something,
(21:50):
and he was like yelling from thetop of his lungs, like to this
lady.
That was like you just like,just go and post something now.
And he's like, he's like do itnow, don't care about what, like
the script, don't care aboutwho's watching, what people are
gonna think, just post something.
(22:12):
Because she was getting all inher own head and you could tell
that she was completely in herown head and he I've never seen
him be like that animated.
He was like, do it.
He's like do it now.
He's like beating his chest.
I was like holy crap, it's gotto be dead.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
It's so true, people like overthink it and it's so.
It's one of those where you gookay, we've all been there, I
get it, just fucking do it, ohmy gosh.
And so the best comparison I'vecome up with is like swimsuit
season, where everyone's tryingto get in shape.
Everyone wants, like I want tobe the person that's like wow,
look at her.
(22:51):
Like everyone's doing that intheir own head.
No one remembers what the fuckyou were wearing or how in shape
you were.
They're worried aboutthemselves.
So quit overthinking your stuff.
Just put it out there.
The people that it's going toresonate with it will resonate
with the people that are goingto judge you.
They're going to judge youanyway, so who cares so?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
yeah, and it's not a reflection on you.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Anyway, it's a reflection on them, like trying
to critique you to makethemselves feel better at the
end of the day, no one reallycares that much yeah, yeah,
that's just the truth.
Yeah, it's so funny too, becauseI came from you know I worked
(23:32):
for the first half of my adultlife was in health care, where
if you made a mistake peoplecould die, and so now it's one
of those of okay, if we putsomething out and there's a typo
, if we put something out andit's cringy or lame or whatever
someone wants to say, one'sbeing physically,
psychologically, spirituallyhurt by this content.
So it's going to be fun, you'llsurvive another day.
So, yeah, you just have to goto that like you'll survive yeah
(23:56):
, you'll get through.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
It's gonna be okay.
So get some content out there.
Start posting um.
Um, I, I want to.
I want to talk to you reallyquick about how do you get um
speaking engagements.
I know when we last talked, yousaid that you did some speaking
engagements in St Louis, right,um, so how do, how do you get
(24:20):
um speaking engagements forother people?
And then what does that also dofor your business?
Speaker 1 (24:25):
So how do I get them?
Again, it's every single onehas come through LinkedIn.
It's been a hey, we like yourstuff.
Would you come talk about ithere?
Which has been cool, becauseI've had opportunities to go
everywhere in the nation talkingand it's one of those where you
go.
I'm meeting like linkedinconnections for the first time.
I'm like I can't believe thatyou invited me here this is
(24:47):
amazing.
Um, and then, as far as what itdoes for my, it's really cool.
Um, from a business perspective, because one you have to like,
you really have to know yourshit if you're going to stand on
a stage and talk about it, likeyou can prepare until you're
blue in the face, but then youget to those question and answer
things and you're like, ha,okay am I ready?
Speaker 2 (25:08):
So?
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I feel like it helps me as a business person just
because then it's one of thoseokay, someone's hit me with a
question that I am having tolike really dig a little deeper
on, which is good, because thenit, you know, I always leave
with new clients and just fromstuff like that of let's work
together because maybe youdidn't know the answer to this
(25:30):
question but by damn you foundit by the end of this conference
or whatever I had, like theyhad the answer that they were
looking for or that they needed.
So it's great from a businesspoint of view, just because you
do get to interact with people,they get to see how you act, you
know, like on the fly, and youjust get to have conversations
(25:51):
with people that you don't getto normally have.
You know in just a commentthread necessarily.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
So yeah, yeah, and then do you use a lot of the
content from the speakingengagement on your own, like
LinkedIn?
Yes, yeah, a lot of times.
Use a lot of the content fromthe speaking engagement on your
own LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yes, yeah, a lot of times, if I get good questions
and stuff, I'll try to weavethose in so that not to put
anybody on the spot.
But I'm like, hey, this is aquestion that came up, let's
talk about it.
Just pictures and things fromit.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
I'm looking at your LinkedInright now.
I'm scrolling through yourposts.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
And you do just for everybody watching and listening
to this.
It's a mixture between, I wouldsay, like polished content, so
like if it's like maybe it's agood image or it shows you know,
it's like okay, somebodydesigned this or put this piece
(26:47):
together, but also it's uh, it'salso got a lot of just like
organic stuff that you're doinglike you know, like I have a
podcast here.
You're in the car and I thinkyou just play, flipped on the
video and just just talking tothe camera like you don't need a
full production people to pushout content.
(27:09):
I think this one is here withyour family.
I think you have to have twosons yeah two little boys.
Yeah, yeah, two little boys.
So like, once again, likeLinkedIn is not all just
business.
At the end of the day, peoplebuy people.
So you're uh, here's one whereyou're, you're doing like the
same pose as somebody else.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, the guy from Napoleon Dynamite.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I was like, oh, I don't do this so much.
So it's cool because you're notbeing so so serious on the
content, which I think isimportant.
So what do you feel like is agood cadence for that?
So, like you said, you neverreally ask for the sale.
(27:55):
Lot of people that I work withto do 80% of like basically
shareable content educational orinformational or experiential
like, hey, let me just documentmy life, let me share, and
really 20% at some point Ibelieve that you should ask,
(28:18):
because sometimes people I getthis sometimes people are like
what do you do?
Like at the core, like I love,I love you, I love the stuff
you're doing.
You're doing all this stuff,but like what do you do and who
do you help?
And sometimes you need to likeclearly map that out so that way
people at least know what youdo and like that you actually
(28:39):
offer something, because ifyou're just giving all the time,
some somebody in there is likenot putting two and two together
.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
And that's true, and I will say that on my stuff like
personally I'm just so I don'tknow I'm weird about I will tell
people all day long, yes, let'smake some things.
And for our clients like if youwere to go through and look at
their stuff, they have oneswhere they're like this is very
obviously what we do here is howto reach us.
Please, dear jesus, hit thisbutton.
(29:06):
Yeah, I just never do thatbecause I I'm like super awkward
most of the time and so I'mlike, ah, here, yeah, it's like
just, if you want to talk to me,you'll talk to me.
Um, I'll never like I'll foresta gump around the other
direction a lot of times, um, somy cadence is because I feel
like I do talk about what I do alot of times.
So my cadence is because I feellike I do talk about what I do
a lot, but I just don't do it inthe normal way of here.
(29:30):
Let me show you.
Let's talk about my business.
Mine will be like hey, I'msitting in car line Talk to a
client about why they aren'tdoing video content.
They felt like they needed tohave it overproduced.
All you literally have to do isturn on your camera, let's run
with it.
So just little things like thatwhere I get to showcase.
Here's what I helped thisperson with.
(29:52):
I could help you too.
Here's what I did for them.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Okay, so you're doing case study type content then so
like you will share stories ofhow you helped others so that
way, people watching or lookingat a post, they know they that
they can actually reach out ifthey need that kind of service
yeah, absolutely like.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Oh, I read this post.
You did it for this person, doit for me yeah, things like that
which I think are helpful andbut it takes I mean, sometimes
it takes a lot of practice forpeople to be able to figure out.
Ok, here's how I do that, andso that's a way we help our
clients to have.
Instead of being a hard sell,let's showcase here's what we
did with this one, so it's notso in their face, but also it's
(30:32):
like oh, I'm going through thatright now, so this is perfect
because a lot of times peopleand like an example recently has
been.
you know, I feel like everyonein the world thinks they need a
website right now, which justkind of irks me.
So I'm like you don't need awebsite, you need to just make a
like, make a post.
Quit worrying about a website.
We're trying to spend money youdon't need to spend right now
(30:54):
and so going through that oncontent of here's how, if you
don't have a website like thisperson, you can set up your
content and your profile so thateverything you need to show
what you do, talk to people andhave ways to be contacted can be
right here, like let's notspend five figures before we
need to and so things like that.
(31:17):
Whereas if we put on there likeprofile optimization, some
people have no idea what thatmeans and they're just like okay
, you're gonna help me with myheadline Like no, we're gonna
help you save money because youcan do this instead of that.
So being able to know whatyou're doing well enough to
showcase it that way.
I feel like that was a lot ofwords, so.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
No, it's good, I was following.
I'm tracking.
Let's hope everybody else istracking.
We got a question in here fromFollow.
Don Says for those who madetheir home on Instagram, how
should we adjust our content tosucceed on LinkedIn?
Speaker 1 (32:03):
adjust it much.
If it's appropriate forInstagram, it's appropriate for
LinkedIn because, I mean, youjust have to think about the
timing of it.
So LinkedIn is all of your like, your c-suite people, your
decision makers, a lot of thetime.
That's who you're typicallytrying to reach on that profile.
So, um, are they doom scrollingat lunchtime and things like
that?
Not usually they're your end ofthe day people.
It's I worked all day.
Now it's my.
(32:24):
The kids are in bed.
Now I'm consuming content onInstagram or LinkedIn.
So, just being mindful of thosetime differences, but it can be
the same content.
I mean, just because you're aprofessional and you're on
LinkedIn doesn't mean you're notconsuming things and memes and
videos and everything that's onInstagram.
(32:44):
I do way too much during theday, so they're still wanting to
find those things.
Yeah, so they're still wantingto find those things.
So put them, put that samestuff on LinkedIn, just at a
different time.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, different, different time the timing on
things yeah, I think that'sgreat advice.
Different time the timing onthings yeah, I think that's
great advice.
And often like, if you have apost that's winning on Instagram
, you can definitely post thatright to LinkedIn.
Yeah, and I think, just addingeven slightly more copy to it,
like explaining it in adifferent way, yeah, way, um,
(33:24):
especially, I mean depending onhow you, how you share that
story.
But, um, sometime on linkedin,I know that, like the
skimmability of a post, you wantto make sure that people can
just like quickly digest yourpost and sometime on on um
instagram.
It's more like I know somepeople would like write the full
book, but also some people justdo like a short kind of caption
and then they let their videoor reel do like most of the
(33:44):
talking for them.
So it's a little bit different,I think, on LinkedIn, because
not everybody is.
Some people are at work andthey're you know, they're
digesting their content, sosometimes having a great copy in
there can really help.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Right, and captions.
I feel like that's superimportant for linkedin because
so many people are I'm workingon desk and also absolutely
consuming content, so havingcaptions so they don't have to
have full volume on whilethey're doing things.
And I love what you said aboutyou know the copy and the
captions, because that isimportant.
Um, that's something I see is abig difference between
instagram and linkedin.
(34:20):
Sometimes, just personally, isI never really read captions on
Instagram, unless whatever's inthe graphic or video like
directs me to it.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
You want the rest of the story, you have to go to the
captions.
Then it's like begrudgingly,Whereas on LinkedIn they're more
heavy.
So those first two or threesentences are really what people
will like.
That's where they're sayingbefore they scroll.
So making sure that that'spunchy and catches somebody,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, no, for sure, for sure.
Well, hopefully, follow Don.
Hopefully that answers yourquestion.
I actually met Don in DC areaback this is a few months ago,
so hopefully he's doing good.
Okay, I got one last questionfor you, because you stressed it
(35:11):
so much on this podcast and Iwant to ask you so, with you
having your so much traction onLinkedIn right, and you said,
like this is like the number oneway on how you're getting
clients speaking engagements,like everything is coming from
LinkedIn what's the next move tohelp grow even more of your
(35:36):
audience on LinkedIn with yourpersonal brand?
So like, is there somethingstrategically that you're
thinking about for you and yourbusiness to grow that For others
?
That, and the reason why is I'mtrying to put you in the
framework for yourself so thatway, others can listen in and
say, okay, she's already gotthis level of success, but what
(35:57):
does it now take to get to thenext level?
Or is it simply just do more ofwhat's working, like what's
going through your brain as faras like how to get even more to
the next level?
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, no, that's a great question Because, of
course, like, maintaining themomentum that we have is
important, so doing that.
But like I want to be able todo more speaking engagements and
things like that, and so I havehad, you know, I've had success
in getting that, just with mynormal content.
So the challenge that I amgiving myself for the next year
is to do more video content.
(36:30):
That's actually more strategic.
I can do video.
I just am one of those that Ijust don't a lot just because
I'm busy doing other things I'mbeing a mom, I'm helping with
clients, things like that so Idon't do it a lot for myself.
But I want to be able to domore speaking, so to do more
video content, and even if thatis like a LinkedIn live series,
(36:53):
where I am a bit more challengedof this is video.
It's on the fly, kind of thesame setup as if I was at a
conference or on a stage orwhatever, where you're getting
those questions.
So almost like a here give memore practice type thing.
So that's my challenge I'vegiven myself for 2025.
So I'd like to watch it eitherit's going to go well or it's
(37:15):
going to go really bad.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
I think it's going to go just fine, I think it's
going to go just fine.
I think it's going to go justfine, don did say it was very
helpful.
Yes, and thank you.
So you helped somebody today,you so first, uh, a couple
(37:40):
takeaways that I'm getting fromthis is like, just start in post
and and get some level ofconsistency on social media and
then, once you reach like abaseline where you know some
things are working for yourself,then it's about being more
strategic in the type of contentor the next level of where you
want to go and and so basicallymaybe saying okay, instead of me
(38:03):
just off the cuff, you know,spitting something into the,
into the camera, and being likehey, this is what's going on,
this is top of mind.
Maybe you, you write a list oflike hey, here's, here's the top
things, top questions in myindustry, and I can focus in on
those and then do content onthere and then just kind of a
little bit more mapping out umof the content.
(38:24):
But also what you said I thinkit's really awesome is that if
people want to be, if they wantto speak more and be on more
stages, like maybe just createenvironments where you're doing
that, so that way people can seethat you're like, that you're
actively doing that more often,so you can get more
opportunities.
So I think that's that's supersmart for for everybody
(38:45):
listening and watching to as youwant more engagements like, try
to apply that and say, hey,where can I show up more on a on
a stage and platform?
And honestly, a podcast in myeyes is a stage.
You know, this is a place wherethere's a ton of people that
don't probably know who you are.
Maybe some do do, I don't know,but they're learning who Amy is
(39:06):
now and you know who knows whathappens once this actually goes
live and posts and everythingyou never know.
Somebody might get inspired bywhat you said and bring you out
on a stage.
So that's super good advice.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah, so fingers crossed, we'll see how.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
25 turns out awesome, awesome.
So, amy, where can people getconnected to you?
Where can they find you?
Um, I always encourage peopleto change their circle because,
uh, if they do, they can changetheir life.
So how can they get connectedto you?
Speaker 1 (39:38):
um, so obviously linkedin, like we keep talking
about may as well you can.
I'm Amy Lee and Wills.
I have like a little star infront of my name, which is also
a handy tip to do on any social,because then you can filter out
spam messages, because it'salways hey, star, every time
yeah, and then everywhere elseI'm at Amy Lee and W, so you can
(40:03):
reach me that way personally,or wolf social marketingcom, if
you want to like see the moreprofessional side.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
The more professional side of Amy.
Well, no, this has beenabsolutely incredible.
I know there's probably a lotof other avenues and ways we
could have went about theconversation, but I that, uh, oh
, we, we got people a lot oftactical tips and and also just
how to um, you know, with withsocial media, and I think most
(40:30):
of the battle is is in here thanknowing like every little uh
tactic of of exactly what'sgonna help them grow, because
most people just aren't doingenough or really anything, and
then even for a lot of largecompanies, I feel like they just
don't have soul in theircontent Exactly.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
They're kind of like the stair wall.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Yeah, it's like how are we really building a
connection here and you're doingan incredible job for all your
clients and everybody that youwork with, and even for yourself
.
I love people that talk, thattalk, but they walk the walk at
the same time.
There's nothing more that irksme more than a social media
marketing company that doesn'tsocial media market themselves.
(41:16):
It drives me absolutely off thewall and I understand it's
different.
You're trying to marketyourself and I get it.
It's.
It's.
It's a slightly different beast, but if you're going to do the
thing that you say you can dofor others, you've got to do it
for yourself.
That's just.
That's my belief.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah, no, it's true Like hang on proof of concept.
If, if you can't do it foryourself, you should be the
easiest person to market for isyourself you should be the
easiest one to be able to do it,and you're and you're killing
the game.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
So, uh, so thank you so much for being on this
episode and, uh, everybodylistening watching.
Please like, comment andsubscribe to this episode.
Uh, and don't forget, uh, ifyou can change your circle, you
could change your life.
So please reach out to Amy andwe'll catch you guys on the next
episode.
Peace, don't forget to like,comment and subscribe, and don't
(42:13):
forget to hit that notificationbell for more amazing content
that we're gonna be putting out.
And don't forget, you canchange your circle to change
your life.
Every single client I've got, though, has come from
a LinkedIn post.
Every single one has been aworker.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Every single one has been linked, every single one
has been linked in every singleone and not just like small
clients.
You gotta talk about that one.
So every client has been linkedin.
How are they reaching?
Are they shooting you a DM?
Is that what's happening?
What's going on, Amy?
(00:34):
How you doing I'm good, how areyou?
I'm good, I'm totally survivingright now.
Right, I've had the mostcraziest week last week in Times
Square, but it's, I'm justcatching up.
I'm catching up with likeeverything.
I've only had like a day ofcatching up with stuff, and then
(00:57):
we have this amazing podcastgoing on today.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Look at this, Look at this.
I mean, I don't know that Iquite follow up like personal
branding in Times Square but, wecan all do that.
I'm going with it.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Oh, you're going to follow up in your own unique way
.
It's going to be absolutelyincredible, absolutely
incredible, as people arefiltered in the room.
Okay, so let everybody know whoyou are and what you do.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I am Amy Wills.
I am the co-founder and CEO ofWolf Social Marketing, where we
work with businesses of allshapes and sizes in different
industries to make their mark intheir own little digital space.
And why Wolf?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Why is it Wolf?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Well, are we talking about this live?
Are we good with this?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, yeah, we can go live.
Yeah, let's do it Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
So here in the deep South we have, you know, all the
things that are and are notconsidered okay and appropriate.
And so I say colorful wordssometimes Four letter words are
not unheard around here.
Colorful words sometimesfour-letter words are not
(02:08):
unheard around here.
And I used to use the hashtagappropriate af on a lot of
things and got got into troublewith a um, non-profit, like
charity volunteer group that Iwas a part of.
They lost their marbles overthis hashtag.
It's not allowed, it's notprofessional, it's not ladylike.
I ah, it's kind of like the waymy whole personal brand has
(02:29):
gone.
It's fine, it's not bringingthe group down at all, it's just
my stuff, it's all personal,it's all private.
Lost their minds and so had afalling out there.
So whenever we started Wolf itwas a you know, let's just kind
of have a little nod to that.
So Wolf stands for we, we'reout of fucks.
(02:50):
And every time I see it I'mjust like, oh look, look where
we started and then look wherewe are.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And it's great so that's it.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Do all your clients know that, and it's great, and
it's great.
So that's it.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Do all your clients know that Most of them do Not
all of them.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
But the ones that know it are like.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Of course, that makes total sense Because a lot of
our clients have been followingfor a long time.
They were lurkers for a reallylong time so they saw the
hashtag appropriate AF.
And they were lurkers a reallylong time so they saw the
hashtag appropriate AF and theywould call.
You know, they were Larkers fora long time, but whenever they
did finally reach out, it was I.
You know, I think your contentis so good because it always
(03:32):
adds value.
It helps me with this, itanswers a question, whatever,
and then it's so funny to seeappropriate AF, like we get to
see some personality in there,and so you go oh, thanks.
So they're like I'm finding mypeople that way.
So no, are okay with it.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
That's good.
Look, if Gary Vee can get awaywith dropping F-bombs every five
seconds and building, you knowwhat?
I think he says like 300 or$400 million agency that he's at
right now, like it's possible,right oh?
Speaker 1 (04:01):
absolutely Well, and it's just one of those of like
it's possible, right?
Oh, absolutely Well, and it'sjust one of those of like if
you're around me, 24 seven am I,are you never, ever going to
hear that?
No, absolutely, you're going tohear that.
You're going to hear it at somepoint, either in a good way, a
bad way, whatever, but it's justunrealistic to be like here.
Let's completely cut this sideof my personality out.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Like.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I can be mindful of.
Like there's a time and a place.
But if you're like that's adeal breaker, four letter words
can't do it, then I'm not yourperson and I'm okay with it.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
So well, this is the.
This is the perfect podcast totalk about that kind of stuff
because, uh, on the Foreverpodcast, it's all about your
brand, your business, um, and,honestly, we got all walks of
life, all different types ofpeople that have been on this
podcast, so I don't think ouraudience is going to take
offense in any way, shape orform to what you're saying.
(04:56):
So first, I want to talk aboutyour transition from, about your
transition from before you hadyour business to having your
business.
So I want to talk about, likewhat that?
Speaker 1 (05:16):
transition was like and how did you, how did you
take the leap?
Oh, it was terrifying.
Okay, so the people I feel likethis is important to note that
it was terrifying and the wholething.
I was like am I doing the rightthing?
Because you see so many postsof people that are like I left
my corporate job and I'vestarted everything and it's been
amazing and it's allbutterflies and rainbows.
It was terrifying, and it wasone of those where I wasn't
(05:38):
wildly unhappy where I was.
It was just one of those of, ifI'm doing this for one place
and I'm just you know, ifthere's any resistance at all
like, imagine what I could bedoing on my own, um, and so it
got to a point where I was kindof unhappy.
So let's, let's do this thing.
I've been doing freelance stuff.
I enjoyed it, um, was I killingit?
(05:59):
No, absolutely not.
I was not by any means like, oh,I can easily drop this and go
full time on my own and have noproblems, like no hesitations.
So it was terrifying, made thetransition and it was a.
I mean, it wasn't a strugglenecessarily, but it was one of
those where you go okay, we'redoing this.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, the hustle is real let's go yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
But it was good.
I mean, it was a good thingOnce you kind of take that leap
of faith and realize you'reputting all your bets on
yourself as cliche as thatsounds, but it was good.
And it was one of those whereyou find out real quick, like,
what you are good at, what youaren't good at, what you would
rather pull your own eyelids offthan have to do like you learn
all of those.
(06:43):
And so even I mean even if fiveyears from now wolf social
isn't a success and we're notkilling it, I feel like I've
learned just a shit ton aboutmyself.
So you go.
If I had to go back to thecorporate world, I would go back
a completely different personthan I was when I left.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
So it's very interesting, isn't that?
Like when you go into businessfor yourself and then you think
back like, oh man, like who, whowould I have been now going
back into business?
Or going back working for anorganization?
I know I was telling my uh goodfriend of mine but he was also
(07:22):
a former boss of mine back whenI used to work in IT and I told
him, like man, I would be amonster like if I went back and
worked at the same place, likewith what I know now.
Like I, like there's no levelof like insecurity, there's no
level of oh my God, they're inthat position.
(07:44):
So you know, like I'm a littleweary of how I say things or how
I do things, like I mean,there's always politics and
everything that, that that we do.
Even in business there arecertain levels of how you got to
read the room, kind of thing,but it just the confidence level
would be like at its ultimatehigh.
(08:05):
If I went back, I would rip itup.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I feel like the confidence and also like the
just empathy Cause I feel like alot of times, um, and I don't
know about you, but whenever Iwas working in a different
setting with other people, it'sso easy to get frustrated about
like, oh my gosh, I'm doing allthese things, why aren't you?
And so now, being the person,that is the okay, now I'm in
charge and you go, I have alittle bit more empathy for,
(08:31):
like my bosses in thosesituations, and the people
around me, but also very muchlike the confidence level of
come on, like pick it up alittle.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Exactly, exactly, um how?
How?
Um now growing your businessnow with, um with Wolf social,
uh, social marketing, um what?
What's been the best way toacquire clients for you?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Um, through my own content.
So I am super active onLinkedIn.
I'm pretty active on, you know,across the planet.
I have TikTok, but it's neverabout like trying to sell
anything, like I'm just doing myown thing.
I talk about things that I careabout, stuff like that, and mix
in business, but I'm never likethe hard sell of taking new
(09:23):
clients.
You know nothing like that.
Every single client I've got,though, has come from a LinkedIn
post.
Every single one has been aworker.
Every single one has beenLinkedIn Every single one has
been LinkedIn, every single one,and not just like small clients
.
We got to talk about that, yeah, we got to, we got to talk
about that Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
So every client has been LinkedIn.
How are they reaching?
Are they shooting you a DM?
Is that what's happening?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
No.
So a lot of them I would say a90% weren't even connected to me
, so they were never on my radar.
Like they're not engaging,they're not liking things,
they're not viewing my profilenever saw them, but they would
send emails Like they would gowebsite or to my page, find my
email and they here let's sendan email and it would be a.
(10:12):
I didn't want to send you a DMbecause I've never engaged, I've
been following you for whateveramount of time and they would
reference posts of like I sawthis one and it answered this
question, or I saw that one.
I think every single, everysingle one.
It's been crazy.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Wow, wow, so they're.
So they're going to yourwebsite and shooting you an
email or an inquiry through thewebsite, and what do you think
is driving that action for themto do that?
Is that through just contentthat you're posting?
Is that through your speakingengagements?
Is that through like what?
What on LinkedIn do you feellike is really resonating for
(10:47):
them to actually make thataction to, to send you a message
?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
So cause I've tried to figure this out on a few
because you know, initially Iwas like I'm not that cool.
Why are people sending memessages?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Come on, you're pretty cool Come on.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
No, but like, I feel like, and it's never okay.
So every, every message thatI've gotten, you know, has been
directly tied to a link.
None of the posts are everbusiness Like.
They're never posts that Iwould feel like are business
related or value ads.
And so it's one of those of hey, you made it, it's like I've
made it easy for them to go tostart a conversation.
Hey, here's like an icebreaker,here's an easy segue.
(11:28):
So it's not like they're havingto ask for help or say they
need anything right out of thegate, but they're also not
having to do this.
So tell me about you.
Like, yeah, I've given them anopportunity to know what it
would be like to talk to me, andit it's been.
So it's been really nice,because I've never, like as a
company, we've never sent outany outbound messaging, we've
(11:50):
never done any kind of salespitch, like every single client
has been an inbound thing soyeah, is that?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
what?
Is that what you teach yourclients when you're working?
With them on social marketing,like to just give, give, give
and you know, really sharestories or like what's, what's
your framework, that you, thatyou teach?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
all of our so with all our clients, because you
know a lot of them too.
Are these mega companies likewe have a couple of global
companies that you go?
This is insane, but like we've,like that we've reached you
want to name drop a couple?
I wish there's, they're bigenough that we have ndas with
all of them, and it's even thatboggles my mind that I'm like,
oh, my god, uh, I made a randomlinkedin post and here we are.
(12:37):
How did we get here?
um yeah is really cool, though,but, like with all of them, you
know they've got these hugebudgets that they, whenever they
bring us on it's that they'vebeen running, like what?
They've been throwing money adsand they've been doing all this
, and I mean we're talking likesix figure budgets just for,
like, linkedin ads, which isinsane to me.
And so we go back through andrebuild their strategies with a
(13:01):
okay, let's replicate this kindof a system so that people are
getting inbound, so they'regetting more inbound messages,
just because those are betterleads, like it's people that
want to be talking to you.
So it's not a okay, we're goingto shoot this net out to a
thousand and hope that we catchone.
They're getting hundreds comingto them, which is fantastic,
(13:21):
but, yeah, we teach them how tobe approachable, how to build an
engagement strategy as part oftheir content plan, and for a
lot of them, we've completelyeliminated any paid advertising
or PR.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
So you're organic.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, it's all organic.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
So you're organic.
Yeah, it's all organic.
Okay, so let me ask you.
So when I was in Times Squarelast week, we had an amazing
individual on the podcast that Ialso met for the first time,
which her name was Jennifer andshe runs a company called the Ad
Girls Right, and so she's allabout ads and running paid ads
(14:02):
and she's not really a big Iwould say she's not a very big
believer.
We were all shocked.
So we were all sitting aroundthe table in the studio and when
she was like I just don'tbelieve, like she just hasn't
really learned the organic likeway of marketing on social and
she just really believes in paid, and she had a kind of she
stated her case and all thatstuff, and everybody around the
(14:23):
table was like oh my God, likewe have never heard somebody say
that.
So this is going to be awesome,because what I'm going to do is
I'm going to try to drop thatepisode and then drop this
episode and I'm going to havethe battle and I may chop up the
content, but this is so.
Why do you agree that organic isbetter than paid?
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yes, because with paid you can and I'm not saying
that paid is wrong for somepeople Like, if you've got a
product sale and it is all about, like, getting to the masses,
do it, that's fine.
But I feel like with organicyou're forced to try harder.
If that makes sense, like withads, I can, it can be subpar,
(15:05):
but I can throw money at it andit's going to land in front of
somebody.
With organic it's one of thoseof if I want engagement, I'm
going to have to make itengaging.
So maybe I've tried somethingthat I think is great and it
falls flat, okay.
Well then, that didn't workwith our audience.
Let's dig deeper and get toknow them better, and so that
that process of digging deeper,you just you end up knowing
(15:30):
exactly what your audience wantsto hear and it's like you have
a completely seamless like.
This is going to work everysingle time, as long as this is
what we're trying to achieve.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
So I love it.
So I agree, I agree with you.
I think I think both can exist.
So for instance like ifsomeone's running ads, you're
going to then go on your socialpage and see well, who are you,
you know.
So, like, the organic side ofit, I think, is the like you
(16:02):
need a foundational base becausepeople are going to do their
own research, and that's alsowhat the organic content can
help with.
But the ad can be very, youknow, strategic and targeted and
at least have people introducedto them, you know, and say, hey
, I'm over here, this is what Igot going on, and if you want to
(16:23):
learn a little bit more, thengo through the organic.
I mean, and both can alsocoexist together.
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
That's kind of my belief, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I don't think that you can rely.
Okay, so I love organic, that'swhat we teach our clients.
We have clients now that arewanting to do ads and that's
great and we're like let's testthem.
Then, once we get into a rhythm, let's find you somebody that
that's what they specialize in,so that you can nail that side
too.
But yeah, I think that you needboth because and I feel that way
, the same way I feel aboutsocial media in general like, do
(16:57):
I believe it heavily in socialmedia marketing, absolutely?
Do I think that you are goingto reach all of your goals if
you only use social mediamarketing?
No, not at all, because noteverybody's on social media for
the same.
Like, I just think that youneed other components.
So the same thing with organicversus paid.
Organic is amazing for reachingthe audience that you have and
(17:20):
you know having that foundation.
Like you talked about,sometimes you need more eyeballs
.
Let's do paid to bring them in.
But you can't just do paid,because the people that try to
do just paid sometimes go backto a shell where you go you
don't have any other content.
It was just an ad.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, no, no, exactly, yeah, exactly,
Exactly.
So Stacklist just said agree,100%, and you get more authentic
new users that also want to bethere.
Yeah, 100%, 100%.
And the goal is to buildsomething where they know, like
(17:56):
and trust you.
That's the.
That's the goal, Um, with anytype of marketing.
Um, one thing I was gonna uhask you, like, what is the best
uh way for someone to grow anaudience on social Like?
And I want you to try to be astactical as possible.
So like if you want to get nerdyand get geeky for a second?
(18:19):
Um, it's all good, it's allgood, but like what have you
seen perform really well to growan audience on social?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
So it depends on one what kind of audience you're
wanting to grow.
Because you know, like for me,I'm on LinkedIn.
I want to grow on LinkedIn.
For other people, instagram'sthe place for them.
So, step one figure out whereyou need to be.
You do not have to beeverywhere.
I feel like a lot of peopleskip that step one.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
They're like we're going to have everything.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
We've got X, we've got Pinterest, we're somehow
trying to thrive on TikTok.
You go pick a spot until youfigure out exactly where your
spot is and then lean into that.
That's step one.
And then two for building anaudience One you have to have
this organic content put outyour content, find what's
working with your audience, andthen you have to talk to them.
(19:08):
I mean, otherwise all you are isjust like consumption content,
where people are going to readit and go, okay, cool, well,
that didn't, that's it.
It's kind of like so you wantto have things where they're
wanting to talk to you, theywant to be involved, they want
to feel like they can tell otherpeople about you and you're
going to answer that person'squestions and things like that.
(19:30):
So offering consistency and Ifeel like consistency for a lot
of people.
They're like okay, so postevery day.
No, oh my gosh, just have likea common theme almost of if I
recommend your brand to somebodyand say they're the best, I
think they're hilarious, andthen you're posting sad shit,
random days.
(19:51):
They're gonna be like why didyou recommend?
they're not funny at all, likeyou have to have some
consistency in there as far aswhat people can expect, and I
think that is so.
Consistency and engagement aremy two biggest like.
That's how you grow an audienceand get them to bring people
with them.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So, on LinkedIn, what's better?
Video or photos or just text?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Okay, so videos right now are being treated better.
They love videos becausefinally, they started their own
little like video feed.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
So they're really.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
They want everybody to do yeah, they want everyone
doing video.
So if you're into video, that'sperfect for you.
Now is the time what a time, um, but I tell people, because
there are some people, like someof the clients that we work
with, that they would ratherjump off of a bridge than do
video content and you go thendon't.
Then don't do that for you.
(20:49):
Do text posts, build youraudience a little bit, then then
mix in some pictures and thenmaybe we'll grow up and then you
can do video.
But the best kind of content iswhatever you are most
comfortable with and you knowyou can do consistently yeah,
yeah, for sure, for sure, yeah,it's, it's all about.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
I mean, the name of the game is.
I mean, people always want tofind the hacks and and what
works, what doesn't work, butoftentimes if you knock on the
door long enough it's gonna open.
So, yeah, just being consistent, um, sometimes is the best
thing, and not get uh analysisby paralysis, so like not
(21:30):
getting so concerned with howall everything operates.
I just, uh, this thing crackedme up I.
So there was a video andspeaking of uh, I know we talked
about gary veee in thebeginning, about him cursing up
a storm, but he had put, he didsome live stream or something,
(21:50):
and he was like yelling from thetop of his lungs, like to this
lady.
That was like you just like,just go and post something now.
And he's like, he's like do itnow, don't care about what, like
the script, don't care aboutwho's watching, what people are
gonna think, just post something.
(22:12):
Because she was getting all inher own head and you could tell
that she was completely in herown head and he I've never seen
him be like that animated.
He was like, do it.
He's like do it now.
He's like beating his chest.
I was like holy crap, it's gotto be dead.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
It's so true, people like overthink it and it's so.
It's one of those where you gookay, we've all been there, I
get it, just fucking do it, ohmy gosh.
And so the best comparison I'vecome up with is like swimsuit
season, where everyone's tryingto get in shape.
Everyone wants, like I want tobe the person that's like wow,
look at her.
(22:51):
Like everyone's doing that intheir own head.
No one remembers what the fuckyou were wearing or how in shape
you were.
They're worried aboutthemselves.
So quit overthinking your stuff.
Just put it out there.
The people that it's going toresonate with it will resonate
with the people that are goingto judge you.
They're going to judge youanyway, so who cares so?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
yeah, and it's not a reflection on you.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Anyway, it's a reflection on them, like trying
to critique you to makethemselves feel better at the
end of the day, no one reallycares that much yeah, yeah,
that's just the truth.
Yeah, it's so funny too, becauseI came from you know I worked
(23:32):
for the first half of my adultlife was in health care, where
if you made a mistake peoplecould die, and so now it's one
of those of okay, if we putsomething out and there's a typo
, if we put something out andit's cringy or lame or whatever
someone wants to say, one'sbeing physically,
psychologically, spirituallyhurt by this content.
So it's going to be fun, you'llsurvive another day.
So, yeah, you just have to goto that like you'll survive yeah
(23:56):
, you'll get through.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
It's gonna be okay.
So get some content out there.
Start posting um.
Um, I, I want to.
I want to talk to you reallyquick about how do you get um
speaking engagements.
I know when we last talked, yousaid that you did some speaking
engagements in St Louis, right,um, so how do, how do you get
(24:20):
um speaking engagements forother people?
And then what does that also dofor your business?
Speaker 1 (24:25):
So how do I get them?
Again, it's every single onehas come through LinkedIn.
It's been a hey, we like yourstuff.
Would you come talk about ithere?
Which has been cool, becauseI've had opportunities to go
everywhere in the nation talkingand it's one of those where you
go.
I'm meeting like linkedinconnections for the first time.
I'm like I can't believe thatyou invited me here this is
(24:47):
amazing.
Um, and then, as far as what itdoes for my, it's really cool.
Um, from a business perspective, because one you have to like,
you really have to know yourshit if you're going to stand on
a stage and talk about it, likeyou can prepare until you're
blue in the face, but then youget to those question and answer
things and you're like, ha,okay am I ready?
Speaker 2 (25:08):
So?
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I feel like it helps me as a business person just
because then it's one of thoseokay, someone's hit me with a
question that I am having tolike really dig a little deeper
on, which is good, because thenit, you know, I always leave
with new clients and just fromstuff like that of let's work
together because maybe youdidn't know the answer to this
(25:30):
question but by damn you foundit by the end of this conference
or whatever I had, like theyhad the answer that they were
looking for or that they needed.
So it's great from a businesspoint of view, just because you
do get to interact with people,they get to see how you act, you
know, like on the fly, and youjust get to have conversations
(25:51):
with people that you don't getto normally have.
You know in just a commentthread necessarily.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
So yeah, yeah, and then do you use a lot of the
content from the speakingengagement on your own, like
LinkedIn?
Yes, yeah, a lot of times.
Use a lot of the content fromthe speaking engagement on your
own LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yes, yeah, a lot of times, if I get good questions
and stuff, I'll try to weavethose in so that not to put
anybody on the spot.
But I'm like, hey, this is aquestion that came up, let's
talk about it.
Just pictures and things fromit.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
I'm looking at your LinkedInright now.
I'm scrolling through yourposts.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
And you do just for everybody watching and listening
to this.
It's a mixture between, I wouldsay, like polished content, so
like if it's like maybe it's agood image or it shows you know,
it's like okay, somebodydesigned this or put this piece
(26:47):
together, but also it's uh, it'salso got a lot of just like
organic stuff that you're doinglike you know, like I have a
podcast here.
You're in the car and I thinkyou just play, flipped on the
video and just just talking tothe camera like you don't need a
full production people to pushout content.
(27:09):
I think this one is here withyour family.
I think you have to have twosons yeah two little boys.
Yeah, yeah, two little boys.
So like, once again, likeLinkedIn is not all just
business.
At the end of the day, peoplebuy people.
So you're uh, here's one whereyou're, you're doing like the
same pose as somebody else.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, the guy from Napoleon Dynamite.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I was like, oh, I don't do this so much.
So it's cool because you're notbeing so so serious on the
content, which I think isimportant.
So what do you feel like is agood cadence for that?
So, like you said, you neverreally ask for the sale.
(27:55):
Lot of people that I work withto do 80% of like basically
shareable content educational orinformational or experiential
like, hey, let me just documentmy life, let me share, and
really 20% at some point Ibelieve that you should ask,
(28:18):
because sometimes people I getthis sometimes people are like
what do you do?
Like at the core, like I love,I love you, I love the stuff
you're doing.
You're doing all this stuff,but like what do you do and who
do you help?
And sometimes you need to likeclearly map that out so that way
people at least know what youdo and like that you actually
(28:39):
offer something, because ifyou're just giving all the time,
some somebody in there is likenot putting two and two together
.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
And that's true, and I will say that on my stuff like
personally I'm just so I don'tknow I'm weird about I will tell
people all day long, yes, let'smake some things.
And for our clients like if youwere to go through and look at
their stuff, they have oneswhere they're like this is very
obviously what we do here is howto reach us.
Please, dear jesus, hit thisbutton.
(29:06):
Yeah, I just never do thatbecause I I'm like super awkward
most of the time and so I'mlike, ah, here, yeah, it's like
just, if you want to talk to me,you'll talk to me.
Um, I'll never like I'll foresta gump around the other
direction a lot of times, um, somy cadence is because I feel
like I do talk about what I do alot of times.
So my cadence is because I feellike I do talk about what I do
a lot, but I just don't do it inthe normal way of here.
(29:30):
Let me show you.
Let's talk about my business.
Mine will be like hey, I'msitting in car line Talk to a
client about why they aren'tdoing video content.
They felt like they needed tohave it overproduced.
All you literally have to do isturn on your camera, let's run
with it.
So just little things like thatwhere I get to showcase.
Here's what I helped thisperson with.
(29:52):
I could help you too.
Here's what I did for them.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Okay, so you're doing case study type content then so
like you will share stories ofhow you helped others so that
way, people watching or lookingat a post, they know they that
they can actually reach out ifthey need that kind of service
yeah, absolutely like.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Oh, I read this post.
You did it for this person, doit for me yeah, things like that
which I think are helpful andbut it takes I mean, sometimes
it takes a lot of practice forpeople to be able to figure out.
Ok, here's how I do that, andso that's a way we help our
clients to have.
Instead of being a hard sell,let's showcase here's what we
did with this one, so it's notso in their face, but also it's
(30:32):
like oh, I'm going through thatright now, so this is perfect
because a lot of times peopleand like an example recently has
been.
you know, I feel like everyonein the world thinks they need a
website right now, which justkind of irks me.
So I'm like you don't need awebsite, you need to just make a
like, make a post.
Quit worrying about a website.
We're trying to spend money youdon't need to spend right now
(30:54):
and so going through that oncontent of here's how, if you
don't have a website like thisperson, you can set up your
content and your profile so thateverything you need to show
what you do, talk to people andhave ways to be contacted can be
right here, like let's notspend five figures before we
need to and so things like that.
(31:17):
Whereas if we put on there likeprofile optimization, some
people have no idea what thatmeans and they're just like okay
, you're gonna help me with myheadline Like no, we're gonna
help you save money because youcan do this instead of that.
So being able to know whatyou're doing well enough to
showcase it that way.
I feel like that was a lot ofwords, so.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
No, it's good, I was following.
I'm tracking.
Let's hope everybody else istracking.
We got a question in here fromFollow.
Don Says for those who madetheir home on Instagram, how
should we adjust our content tosucceed on LinkedIn?
Speaker 1 (32:03):
adjust it much.
If it's appropriate forInstagram, it's appropriate for
LinkedIn because, I mean, youjust have to think about the
timing of it.
So LinkedIn is all of your like, your c-suite people, your
decision makers, a lot of thetime.
That's who you're typicallytrying to reach on that profile.
So, um, are they doom scrollingat lunchtime and things like
that?
Not usually they're your end ofthe day people.
It's I worked all day.
Now it's my.
(32:24):
The kids are in bed.
Now I'm consuming content onInstagram or LinkedIn.
So, just being mindful of thosetime differences, but it can be
the same content.
I mean, just because you're aprofessional and you're on
LinkedIn doesn't mean you're notconsuming things and memes and
videos and everything that's onInstagram.
(32:44):
I do way too much during theday, so they're still wanting to
find those things.
Yeah, so they're still wantingto find those things.
So put them, put that samestuff on LinkedIn, just at a
different time.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, different, different time the timing on
things yeah, I think that'sgreat advice.
Different time the timing onthings yeah, I think that's
great advice.
And often like, if you have apost that's winning on Instagram
, you can definitely post thatright to LinkedIn.
Yeah, and I think, just addingeven slightly more copy to it,
like explaining it in adifferent way, yeah, way, um,
(33:24):
especially, I mean depending onhow you, how you share that
story.
But, um, sometime on linkedin,I know that, like the
skimmability of a post, you wantto make sure that people can
just like quickly digest yourpost and sometime on on um
instagram.
It's more like I know somepeople would like write the full
book, but also some people justdo like a short kind of caption
and then they let their videoor reel do like most of the
(33:44):
talking for them.
So it's a little bit different,I think, on LinkedIn, because
not everybody is.
Some people are at work andthey're you know, they're
digesting their content, sosometimes having a great copy in
there can really help.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Right, and captions.
I feel like that's superimportant for linkedin because
so many people are I'm workingon desk and also absolutely
consuming content, so havingcaptions so they don't have to
have full volume on whilethey're doing things.
And I love what you said aboutyou know the copy and the
captions, because that isimportant.
Um, that's something I see is abig difference between
instagram and linkedin.
(34:20):
Sometimes, just personally, isI never really read captions on
Instagram, unless whatever's inthe graphic or video like
directs me to it.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
You want the rest of the story, you have to go to the
captions.
Then it's like begrudgingly,Whereas on LinkedIn they're more
heavy.
So those first two or threesentences are really what people
will like.
That's where they're sayingbefore they scroll.
So making sure that that'spunchy and catches somebody,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, no, for sure, for sure.
Well, hopefully, follow Don.
Hopefully that answers yourquestion.
I actually met Don in DC areaback this is a few months ago,
so hopefully he's doing good.
Okay, I got one last questionfor you, because you stressed it
(35:11):
so much on this podcast and Iwant to ask you so, with you
having your so much traction onLinkedIn right, and you said,
like this is like the number oneway on how you're getting
clients speaking engagements,like everything is coming from
LinkedIn what's the next move tohelp grow even more of your
(35:36):
audience on LinkedIn with yourpersonal brand?
So like, is there somethingstrategically that you're
thinking about for you and yourbusiness to grow that For others
?
That, and the reason why is I'mtrying to put you in the
framework for yourself so thatway, others can listen in and
say, okay, she's already gotthis level of success, but what
(35:57):
does it now take to get to thenext level?
Or is it simply just do more ofwhat's working, like what's
going through your brain as faras like how to get even more to
the next level?
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, no, that's a great question Because, of
course, like, maintaining themomentum that we have is
important, so doing that.
But like I want to be able todo more speaking engagements and
things like that, and so I havehad, you know, I've had success
in getting that, just with mynormal content.
So the challenge that I amgiving myself for the next year
is to do more video content.
(36:30):
That's actually more strategic.
I can do video.
I just am one of those that Ijust don't a lot just because
I'm busy doing other things I'mbeing a mom, I'm helping with
clients, things like that so Idon't do it a lot for myself.
But I want to be able to domore speaking, so to do more
video content, and even if thatis like a LinkedIn live series,
(36:53):
where I am a bit more challengedof this is video.
It's on the fly, kind of thesame setup as if I was at a
conference or on a stage orwhatever, where you're getting
those questions.
So almost like a here give memore practice type thing.
So that's my challenge I'vegiven myself for 2025.
So I'd like to watch it eitherit's going to go well or it's
(37:15):
going to go really bad.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
I think it's going to go just fine, I think it's
going to go just fine.
I think it's going to go justfine, don did say it was very
helpful.
Yes, and thank you.
So you helped somebody today,you so first, uh, a couple
(37:40):
takeaways that I'm getting fromthis is like, just start in post
and and get some level ofconsistency on social media and
then, once you reach like abaseline where you know some
things are working for yourself,then it's about being more
strategic in the type of contentor the next level of where you
want to go and and so basicallymaybe saying okay, instead of me
(38:03):
just off the cuff, you know,spitting something into the,
into the camera, and being likehey, this is what's going on,
this is top of mind.
Maybe you, you write a list oflike hey, here's, here's the top
things, top questions in myindustry, and I can focus in on
those and then do content onthere and then just kind of a
little bit more mapping out umof the content.
(38:24):
But also what you said I thinkit's really awesome is that if
people want to be, if they wantto speak more and be on more
stages, like maybe just createenvironments where you're doing
that, so that way people can seethat you're like, that you're
actively doing that more often,so you can get more
opportunities.
So I think that's that's supersmart for for everybody
(38:45):
listening and watching to as youwant more engagements like, try
to apply that and say, hey,where can I show up more on a on
a stage and platform?
And honestly, a podcast in myeyes is a stage.
You know, this is a place wherethere's a ton of people that
don't probably know who you are.
Maybe some do do, I don't know,but they're learning who Amy is
(39:06):
now and you know who knows whathappens once this actually goes
live and posts and everythingyou never know.
Somebody might get inspired bywhat you said and bring you out
on a stage.
So that's super good advice.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah, so fingers crossed, we'll see how.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
25 turns out awesome, awesome.
So, amy, where can people getconnected to you?
Where can they find you?
Um, I always encourage peopleto change their circle because,
uh, if they do, they can changetheir life.
So how can they get connectedto you?
Speaker 1 (39:38):
um, so obviously linkedin, like we keep talking
about may as well you can.
I'm Amy Lee and Wills.
I have like a little star infront of my name, which is also
a handy tip to do on any social,because then you can filter out
spam messages, because it'salways hey, star, every time
yeah, and then everywhere elseI'm at Amy Lee and W, so you can
(40:03):
reach me that way personally,or wolf social marketingcom, if
you want to like see the moreprofessional side.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
The more professional side of Amy.
Well, no, this has beenabsolutely incredible.
I know there's probably a lotof other avenues and ways we
could have went about theconversation, but I that, uh, oh
, we, we got people a lot oftactical tips and and also just
how to um, you know, with withsocial media, and I think most
(40:30):
of the battle is is in here thanknowing like every little uh
tactic of of exactly what'sgonna help them grow, because
most people just aren't doingenough or really anything, and
then even for a lot of largecompanies, I feel like they just
don't have soul in theircontent Exactly.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
They're kind of like the stair wall.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Yeah, it's like how are we really building a
connection here and you're doingan incredible job for all your
clients and everybody that youwork with, and even for yourself
.
I love people that talk, thattalk, but they walk the walk at
the same time.
There's nothing more that irksme more than a social media
marketing company that doesn'tsocial media market themselves.
(41:16):
It drives me absolutely off thewall and I understand it's
different.
You're trying to marketyourself and I get it.
It's.
It's.
It's a slightly different beast, but if you're going to do the
thing that you say you can dofor others, you've got to do it
for yourself.
That's just.
That's my belief.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah, no, it's true Like hang on proof of concept.
If, if you can't do it foryourself, you should be the
easiest person to market for isyourself you should be the
easiest one to be able to do it,and you're and you're killing
the game.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
So, uh, so thank you so much for being on this
episode and, uh, everybodylistening watching.
Please like, comment andsubscribe to this episode.
Uh, and don't forget, uh, ifyou can change your circle, you
could change your life.
So please reach out to Amy andwe'll catch you guys on the next
episode.
Peace, don't forget to like,comment and subscribe, and don't
(42:13):
forget to hit that notificationbell for more amazing content
that we're gonna be putting out.
And don't forget, you canchange your circle to change
your life.
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