Rockets launch 2024 offseason with Rafael Stone extension

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(00:02):
Cheers. Rockets fans, Welcome tothe lagger Line, an exclusive podcast from
the home of the Rockets, SportsTalk seven ninety. The logger Line.
It's proudly served to you by carBox Clutch City Lagger. It is God
Oh Red Nation. Get Ready,Ready, Get Ready. The lagger Line

(00:29):
starts now. Welcome aboard. What'sup, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks for
checking out another new episode of Thelogger Line, as always served to you
courtesy of Clutch City Lagger of CarbackBrewing. I'm Benjubo's, your host,

(00:49):
editor of USA Today's Rocket Squire,a contributor to Sports Talk seven ninety,
the official flagship radio station of yourHouston Rockets. I'm joined by my good
friend, co host and producer outof Portugal, Palweralves, who you can
follow on Twitter, slash x atPalo Alves, NBA me I'm at Ben
Dubo's so as we chat on thisApril nineteenth episode, the twenty twenty three

(01:10):
to twenty four season is officially overfor the Rockets. Houston did go two
to one on that final road tripto finish at five hundred, and let's
be real that forty one and fortyone year is a really nice accomplishment.
It's the type of round number that, as we said in recent pods,
should draw attention and turn some headsaround the league. Now, granted,
there was not a ton that youcould take out of those final games,

(01:32):
because obviously games at the end ofthe season can be disjointed when there aren't
direct playoff implications, and you mayhave veteran players either sitting out or playing
minimal roles, as was the casewith even the Rockets holding out Fred bin
Fleet the last couple of games andDylan Brooks for the finale. But after
that disappointing loss in Utah on thefront end of the road back to back,
Rockets responded very well qual of theefforts against both the Trailblazers and the

(01:55):
Clippers, and I think they endedup with the record they deserved. It
had some nice showings from A Thompsonand Cam Whitmore, your two rookies playing
and expanded roles, and then JalenGreen did bounce back after what was a
terrible game at Utah. It wasI to see him followed up twenty four
hours later with a very good onein Portland. But beyond that, I
really don't think there's a ton totake away from those games specifically, So

(02:16):
Paulo, before we turn our attentionto Ruphael Stone and the news of the
week, is there anything that youwanted to add or highlight related to the
final three games? Yeah, Imean we talked about it in the previous
part. Finishing five hundred is reallygood, Losing to Utah was well and
overall just I want to believe inKiln being back right and not being back

(02:40):
with Taylorn taking a leap, butI can help but say that I and
this is not a me being downon Kilan at all, but I can't
help. Let's say that Iak theend of the year not certain that his
position, if a star comes available, is the most upgrade double one besides

(03:01):
Stealen Brooks. But for Dylan youhave obviously a Mandentarian and everything like that.
So it's you know, assuming aguards are not assuming assuming the start
that becomes available is a guard,which most of them are most of the
sus and the league at guards,and this is a score. I think
it's it's the argument to make thatKilen's not, you know, the one

(03:21):
that's you know, the closest toolsin the spot because yes, he did
have that really good stretch, right, but then indeed have some games again
where it looked like a little bitlike same old Kalen Uh, not say
mold, but say mold from thisseason, jailing when he's a lot better
at all of the other things thatstruggles with the shot just wasn't good enough.
Yeah, I think that's reasonable.The way I would frame it is

(03:44):
that the end of the season broughtsome doubt back into the equation. It's
not that it took away what hedid in March. It's not that you
can't see the path forward. It'sjust seeing some of those games down the
structure of the year, well,none of them other than Utah. And
I do think it's fair to notethat there was absolutely nothing to play for
in that game other than Utah.Nothing was really dreadful. So it's not

(04:05):
like there's any reason to think thatthe run he had in March was a
mirage, But it just brought alittle bit of doubt into the equation,
and in a summer where potentially somebig names could be on the trade market,
it's just fair to sort of keepthat in the back of your mind
because it could be sort of thelast impression for the Rockets. Right.

(04:26):
Yeah, I'm not saying trade Gillanat all. I'm just saying it's I
would have loved for him to closeit out on a higher note than he
did, because now you're stuck ina spot where you don't really know which
of the stretches is real. Hedid play well against the Blazers, had
an efficient night, very efficient plan. But then again against the Clippers,
you know, it was a reallyeasy game to end that you'dn't have been

(04:49):
as hard as it was, anda better dealer performance sort of stealed it
earlier in the game considering the Rocketswere playing against you know, the Philly
Clippers. Yeah, I will I'llsay that I think the style of play
at the end of an NBA seasondoes disproportionately harm Jalen because he's so dependent

(05:09):
on taking the pounding that comes fromgoing to the rack. And I think,
keep in mind he also had hisleg falling on in the Portland game.
I think if Jalen tries to dialit back and turn into let's say
seventy five percent a step back threepoint shooter, it's really tough on him
because a lot of guys, well, it's not they have to become a

(05:31):
seventy five percent three point shooter.It's just that's what it turns into for
Jalen because he doesn't necessarily have thesize or physicality to score at all three
levels. For Jalen, it's eitherthe threes or getting to the rim,
and for various reasons, I think, not wanting to risk injury with not
much to play for. In thefinal couple of games and what happened with
his leg, Jalen became a littlebit more reluctant to drive. And when

(05:55):
that happens, so much of hisgame just turns into step back threes,
and that's inherently olatile. I thinkfor Jalen, a big part of sort
of increasing the floor for him isthe willingness to attack the rim fully commit
with his speed, his athleticism drawfouls, and when he doesn't want to
do that, and that's what wesaw on the final road trip, then
all of a sudden, it canbe very volatile. The final numbers based

(06:16):
on whether or not he's making threes. So that's the benefit of the doubt
that I will get to give tohim. I think some of what happened
probably just had to do with astylistic choice of how he wanted to play
those final games. But yeah,I would just say generally speaking, the
close to the season, the wayhe performed in April, following that brilliant
march, It's not that it undidit by any means. I'm certainly not
saying you should trade him either.It's just it brought a little bit of

(06:41):
doubt back into the equation. Whichit's not crushing, it's not crippling.
It's not all of a sudden youshould be feeling terrible about Jalen. It's
just a little more uncertainty to hissituation anyway, as far as the team
go ahead, and if he's goingto mention, I mean, they were
the best eleventh seed of all time. So you can you can relish,
or not really relish, but youcan you can kind of tell yourself that,

(07:05):
hey, listen, any other yearwe're making the play in, which
is kind of the goal. Eventhough you may look said they goose the
playoffs, and if you are inthe play and you're two games away from
the playoffs or anything can happen.Who's to say that they don't get there,
although it will be tough with theleague meeting the Lakers there. But
you know, it's I think Imade it sound a little bit less positive

(07:27):
than it should have been. I'mnot saying I'm not on a negative at
all. It's just that these gamesmeant very little. The record is nice,
but that's that's what I took awayfrom it because it's kind of a
it's kind of unfair as well,because if he had gone off, I
probably wouldn't be here rating about it. But since because of the competition,

(07:49):
it's it's a it's a no winsituation. But since he's struggled a bit,
it's like he's struggled the games theseguys. But I do, I
do see the validity in what youwere saying about. If the game is
not structured and the game aren' youknow, go, you know, past
to the wall every single possession,then Kaylan does turn into more of a
settle, fortum plots type of guy, which you know obviously is said.

(08:13):
Yeah. And then as far asthat final record, honestly, it's quite
fitting because keep in mind they wereexactly at five hundred thirty eight and thirty
eight after that April fourth loss,to the Warriors, and we knew that
from a playoff perspective, that wasthe season ender. So as I see,
it's pretty fitting that that's where theyend up. It's a good season.

(08:35):
Well, let's be honest, it'sa great season. They blew past
the preseason over under number, whichI believe was thirty one and a half,
and as you said, that wouldhave been in the play in tournament
most years, it would have beena year ago. In fact, that
Thunder had a worst record than theRockets a year ago, and yet they
were in the play in But aswe've covered at nauseum this year, the
Western Conference is historically loaded at themoment, and so as you said,

(08:56):
the Rockets came up a few winsshort. Maybe the landscape changes this summer
based on how the playoffs turn out. Perhaps the early loss by Golden State
is already having some implications. We'lltry to talk about that at the very
back of today's pot, But asfar as the Rockets and the big picture,
and to try and spend this towardsour topic of the day, which

(09:16):
is rafel Stone and the extension givento not just Rafel but also Eli White
as assistant GM for the Rockets,basically Tilman for Tita, owner of the
Rockets, choosing the state of coursewith the current front office. It's worth
noting that even in this year wherethe Rockets will tell you that they fell
short of their goal the postseason quiteambitious, but it was their goal,

(09:37):
will acknowledge that there was just somuch progress with that final record after going
twenty two and sixty last year,the nineteen one jump was the biggest of
any NBA team all year. Itwas the second biggest year on your Jump
in franchise history, and the Rocketsbecame just the fifth NBA team in the
last thirty years to immediately follow aseason with six year more laws with a

(10:01):
non losing season. So there's aton to be proud of, and I
think that feeds into again the newsof the week, which is that the
Rockets officially extended the contracts of Rafeland Eli as GM and assistant GM respectively,
basically number one and number two inbasketball operations for the Rockets. They
didn't disclose how many years, buttypically each NBA executive contract is for four

(10:24):
or five years, and as youmay recall, Rafel and Eli each just
completed their fourth season with the Rocketsin their current roles, so do the
math. They're nearing the end oftheir first deal, now they got another
one that's going to take them intothe late twenty twenties. Now, as
I understand it, those deals wereactually agreed to a couple of months ago,
but there's no requirement for teams todisclose contracts involving their executives, So

(10:46):
the Rockets just chose to wait untilafter the season to break the news.
And I do kind of get it, because the goal during the season is
to try and keep the focus dayto day and improving from one game to
the next. Anything that's more yearto year, end development based, I
think they try to table those narrativesuntil the off season. So that's the

(11:07):
timing component of this. As faras my reaction and Paalo, I have
a sneaking suspicion based on our previousconversations that you're in alignment, I think
it's absolutely deserved. Certainly the yearand your growth that we just talked about,
it's tremendous, and that's part ofthe thinking. But for a GM
and a front off, it's it'snot just about one year, it's about

(11:28):
phases of a larger plan, andwhat this year really was was a referendum
on phase one of the rebuild.We heard them talk all last off season
about transitioning to Phase two, sothis season was effectively a referendum on whether
that was actually the case. Well, now that we've seen the nineteen win

(11:50):
increase, I think it's pretty clearthat it is. And from a management
perspective, the bottom line for me, I just don't see how any one
could look at the last three anda half years as anything but a success.
And I say three and a halfyears because Rafell and Eli took their
current roles in October twenty twenty,right after Jeryl Morey chose to leave.

(12:13):
Now, of course that's not sayingthat every decision they've made has been the
correct one. Sure they've had misses. And this is a league where only
one team out of thirty can winthe title each year, and you've got
twenty nine other gms trying to accomplishthe same exact thing that you are.
So no, you're not going towin every transaction. Some of your bets
are not going to work out.Nobody's perfect, nobody's even close to perfect.

(12:35):
But on the whole, I dothink they've done a very good job
at what matters the most. Andto illustrate that, here's my best argument.
Imagine some team other than the Rocketsand consider this scenario. Let's say
the team has got to hire botha new GM and a new head coach.
Translated, there's no proven leadership structureor system in place. Let's say

(12:58):
they've got relatively new owner that hasn'tyet proven that he can oversee the construction
of a good team. Let's saythey have two big name former MVPs now
in their thirties and on the declinea little bit, especially in the case
of one of those guys, andit just so happens that they're both disgruntled
and they want to leave. Andbecause they're in their thirties, on huge

(13:20):
contracts and at least in one casedeclining, that trade value may not be
all that you want or need itto be. Let's say that team is
in bad position with regards to thesalary cap and future draft picks. Think
back to all the assets the Rocketsowed to Oklahoma City from the Chris Paul
Russell Westbrook trade, that terrible onein July of twenty nineteen. Let's say

(13:41):
there's very very minimal young talent onthe entire roster. Now flash forward three
and a half years. Let's saythat franchise is where the Rockets are today,
with a young core that at thispoint is one of the most desirable
and the entire freaking league, withthe head coach that virtually everyone respects and
Ema Ujoka, with veterans like Fredvan Vleet and Dylan Brooks and Jeff Green

(14:07):
that seem to fit like a gloveboth in terms of basketball and culturally,
with the financial flexibility to have massivecap room again in twenty twenty five if
you think you need it, thanksto the team option after year two of
Fred's deal. And by the way, before anyone says, oh, anybody
can sign veterans once they have capspace, Fred is honestly one of the
most accomplished veterans we've ever seen whosigned with a bad team and free agency

(14:31):
while humans prime that to me doesn'thappen. Let me add, Let me
let me just add on top ofthat, you know, anybody can sign
free agents when they have cap space, just like everybody. Anybody can draft
the obvious pick in every single draftedstone set so far, right, Yeah,
it's it's yeah, it's the samelockic it's everybody can do that.
The right moves are all obvious,and then the wrong moves were all you
know, utebel underset. I'm sorry, I just wanted to decided to interrupt

(14:54):
cue because it's it's exactly the samereasoning people are using for the draft,
which is obviously diculous. And I'mnot saying you have that reasoning obviously,
just you know, pointing out howsimilar it is. Yeah, and in
the case of free agency, again, no one can point to the precedent
with a bad team because it typicallydoesn't happen. There are very many cases
of this. So they had tosell the vision. And then as far

(15:18):
as the young talent component, let'sget to that, because, as you
just said, I've seen some lazytakes along the lines of, oh,
anybody can have young talent if youtank for three years and you're really bad.
So here's my rebuttal to that forstarters, the Rockets did not get
a number one overall pick in anyyear. There was no Wimby stimulus package.
Secondly, of this course six andby the way, it's not all

(15:41):
based on scouting reports. We've seensome great flashes of play from all of
these guys on the floor. Butof these Course six, literally half of
them were drafted in the back halfof the first round. Tarry Eason,
all, par Echion Goon, KimWhitmore all the back half of the first
round. So it's not like theRockets built this Course six just based on

(16:04):
having a shit ton of super highpicks or great lottery luck. No,
they drafted and developed well. Andspeaking of the draft, they're set up
quite well with regards to their futurepicks because of that bet they made against
the Brooklyn Nets in the original JamesHarden trade, who right now have one
of the worst outlooks of any teamin the league. So that gives the

(16:26):
Rockets a pipeline to add more youngtalent themselves, or maybe those picks get
used to upgrade the team through atrade, which the Rockets are also set
up well for because they signed somany guys to very trade friendly contracts think
Jacques Landell, Jeff Green, andso on and so forth with year to
year optionality. Again, go backto where the Rockets were in October twenty
twenty. If another NBA team hadall of those headwinds today, and you

(16:51):
could flip the calendar forward three anda half years and see them as comparable
to the current Rockets. I thinkyou'd be pretty damn impressed by the manager
job. I think nearly everybody wouldview that as an above average performance,
and thus it's a no brainer tokeep that management team in place. Now,
why am I urging everybody to viewit from the perspective of another team.

(17:12):
That's because, and I speak formy own experience, when it's your
own team, it can be veryeasy to miss the forest for the trees.
It can be very easy to getbogged down in the minutia of grading
every single transaction to the point wherewe lose sight of what actually matters.
The NBA is the ultimate quality overquantity league. We've said it so many

(17:34):
times. Some players and some dealsare way more important than others. But
if you're laser focused on evaluating oneteam on a daily, sometimes hourly basis,
it's easy to fall into the trapof judging everything by a narrative of
who's allegedly winning that day, orthat week or that month. In terms
of the news cycle and how Rocketspans and NBA fans feel about it look

(17:57):
at last summer with the yaper fixationon that deal involving Usman Garuba, ty
Ty Washington, and two second roundpicks for cap Room that didn't turn out
to be entirely needed. Those aresuch minimal assets in the grand scheme.
The deals they agreed to in thesame twenty four hour period with Fred and
Dylan were way more important. Butbecause the Garuba and Thai tight deal wasn't

(18:18):
fully understood and a lot of peopledidn't agree with it, it got analyzed
to death to the point where itwas blown out of proportion and the narrative
became that it was a bad week, a bad month for rafel Stone,
to the point where context was lost. And that's what happens oftentimes, when

(18:41):
it's your team in the moment,your laser focused on grading, reacting,
and overanalyzing every single thing that yourteam does, it's easy to lose perspective,
lose context. That's why it's importantto zoom out. And so for
me to help me do that,I think it's shoes full to try and
look at things through a different lens. What I would think if it was

(19:03):
another franchise that I wasn't emotionally attachedto through that lens on the stuff that
really matters. I think Rafell andEli have gotten a lot more right than
they have wrong. I don't thinkit's even arguable, and so it makes
perfect sense to me to stay thecourse. Now, with all that said,
there's no guarantees that continues. Ithink they succeeded at phase one,

(19:25):
but phase two is about not justgoing from the ground floor back to relevancy,
but now going from relevancy to truetitle contention. Maybe they're not as
good at this phase, and ifthat's the case, maybe we're having a
different discussion a few years from nowwhen these new contracts are running out.
Everybody and everything is constantly being evaluated. So let's not make this out to

(19:47):
be like Tilman Furtita gave them lifetimecontracts. What this all basically comes down
to is Tilman saying, look,we're happy with the results of phase one
of the plan, so I'm goingto entrust you guys with phase two.
To me, that's perfectly reasonable.Time will tell if they're able to actually
bring a championship team to Houston,But based on what we know today,
I think it's clearly the right call. Powell, What are your general views

(20:08):
as far as the decision Tilman andthe Rockets made and ultimately why they made
it. I think important contacts thatI haven't quite you know, And I
don't think you'll be sure about iteither. Do we know when the contracts
were expiring it was this like thelast year, because if it was four

(20:29):
years, it would be this year. The currency would be the last if
it was. We don't know thisfor sure, but I suspect that there
was an option year. That's theway the Rockets typically do a lot of
their contracts. If you recall thesame happened with Mike D'Antoni that actually led
to that summer of uncertainty when theRockets simply picked up his option. But
yeah, in most cases, theoption year is the inflection point. And

(20:52):
my guess is that's what this was. You don't have someone go into a
lame duck. Yeah, so thisthis this is say what? So A
lot of people can fuse like theorganizational direction and the plan with the GM,
those are not always the same thing. The GM they have picked a
plan to Tilman that Tillman likes.That doesn't mean that because Tillman imagine if

(21:18):
Tilman had not renewed the contact withStone, that doesn't mean that the plan
would checked necessarily. If the planis suck for three years, have two,
two or three middle years who aretrying to make the jump, and
then have expectations of true content,true contention for the championship. That can
be the first phase can be drivenby Stone, and if Tillman feels that

(21:41):
he didn't do enough a good enoughjob, you could get someone else to
do the rest and still maintain thesame path moving forward. So to me,
something that was pretty telling. Andlisten, I was as low on
Tillman as anybody else during the hardenedyears, but I've got to give them
credit. And this is I knowwe're known for being positive. We do

(22:03):
not get any briefs from the organizationtelling us to say what we're saying.
I would never do that. Iwould never say something that I don't believe
in that's gotten, you know,not wanting to do that, that's gotten
to be in trouble before. Butthat's that's just how I am. Tilman.
Giving Stone the flexibility to go allout in an off season where his
contract is expiring tells me that he'scommitted to the plan, which we believe

(22:29):
is or was and still is tosuck for a bit and then make that
transition all at the same time andtry to flip the switch while not you
know, being not all in butsomewhat all in, while maintaining you know,
the young core Tilman allowing Stone tobe as aggressive as he was with
a frivent fleet deal which is notvery long term, but it's very high,

(22:52):
you know, percentage of the capat the same time, and it's
not that and and Tilman likely knowsthat these are likely not going to be
popular deals at the time that theyare made because the numbers look so so
pompous and and you know, tothe casual fan, hey, that's a
lot of money for fredvan Vleet.But when you take into the details,
you see why it made sense togive him that much money for the one

(23:15):
Brooks the exact same thing, right, Tillman gave Stone the freedom to the
spike, being just one year awayfrom his contract expiring. Still make these
huge, these huge decisions, right, they could have planted caps And I
think the Hawks are a perfect exampleof this. In the in the Anthony
Davis free agency or where everybody knewhe was going to the Lakers. The

(23:37):
Hawks got bog down bog down Avich. I think Danilo Gallinari in free agency,
in contracts that were easy to youknow, get they were on very
long term, but they were easyto get out of, you know.
A couple of years after the nextdid this as well, when they first
signed Cullius Randall and Bobby Porters atthe time or and I don't quite remember

(24:00):
the exact all of the plips wasa few years ago. But there's waste
for you to pun the Caps placea year back. Tilman was decisive and
he let Ruffle Stone, you know, dig in and make these hard decisions.
So to me, that shows methat Tilman is as hands off as
it's been pretty in the recent past, which is great, which makes me

(24:22):
feel good, even if it weren'tStone, even if Stone hadn't stayed at
the TM makes me confident that hewould hire someone that he would let,
you know, control the team,and he wouldn't be you know, too
involved, which is typically about theyowners being involved is almost always a bad
idea. That's my first take away. My second takeaway is that, by
the way, let me interject realquick on the subject of Tilman. There

(24:42):
was a revealing quote in there thathe gave to Jonathan Fagot of The Chronicle.
It became clear the Rockets had executedour plan to draft and develop young
potential cornerstones for the franchise, stabilizethe team with veterans the translated winning games,
and found our coach for the presentand future. We wanted to showed
them as well as the public,that we're excited the direction the Rockets were

(25:03):
going. We said this was phasetwo. There's one line in there that
I want to underscore. Found ourcoach for the present and future. One
of the silly things that I've neverbought into, But I think this should
absolutely close the door on this ridiculousidea that rafel Stone wanted Frank Vogel or
someone that wasn't emy Udoka first off, as someone that had intel throughout the
process. You can go back andlisten to our logger line archives. I

(25:26):
never believe that. I think therewas some agenda pushing going on there.
But why in the world if thatwas the case, would Tilman use the
hiring of emy Udoka as a reasonto extend rafel Stone. If Rafelstone wanted
to hire someone else. And theonly reason why Emay is here is because
of Tilman. That in and ofitself disproves that silly narrative. And there's
a number of narratives like that thathave been pushed the last couple of years.

(25:51):
That's just one example. But thatquote from Tilman to me, that
makes it crystal clearer that and Iknew this already, but there was full
alignment on emy Udoka. Yes,Tilman Fritina wanted e May and they clicked
when they met before the High Ridchsmain official. That's true. Rafel Stone,
in the front office, Eli whiteasall those guys they wanted the may
Udoka as well. There is alot more I guess togetherness between the front

(26:15):
office and ownership than a lot ofpeople, not just locally but nationally as
well. There has never been dysfunction. There were times, I think,
especially towards the end of the StevenSilas administration, that maybe the front office
and ownership and the coaching staff weren'tall in alignment. But in terms of
the front office and ownership and Rafeland Tilman and Patrick and Eli and all
the other people, they are alignedand they've been aligned. And I think

(26:38):
that quote from Tilman, I justwanted to sorry for interjecting, but just
wanted to put that in there becauseI think to me that highlights that there
is a lot more alignment at thehigh levels of this franchise than I think
some have given it credit for overthe last couple of years. No,
that's an awesome point, and especiallyso when you consider that historically to this
point, Tilman has been someone whohas really much liked to take credit for

(27:00):
certain moves that he finds are goodmoves to Russell Westbrook trait an example that
souring. But you know, Tilmanis not afraid of putting out there when
he is a big part of adecision and he wants he takes somewhat credit
or a part of the credit forit. So it's not like, you
know, for Tilman to say this, it's not is it called is a

(27:22):
window dressing? Yeah? No?Is it? Yeah? Let's cool,
I'm I'm improving my whatever. Soit's not, it's not it's not indol
dressing. It's he's not saying thisjust for just show it's actually true.
Otherwise we know he would take no, he would have no hesitating and taking
credit for it. Yeah, thiswas my guy. Oh it was a

(27:45):
cooborative decision. And there's my pointis that there's been a lot more collaborative
decisions than some would have you believe. I think there is alignment. And
let's not to say that every oneof those decisions is going to work out.
Again, you're always going to losesome transactions because you're swinning that other
GM's trying to do the exact samething. So you're gonna win some,
you're gonna lose some. But uh, Rafel and ownership, Raffel and his

(28:07):
staff, there's a lot more collaboration. Like another silly thing I've seen is
that, oh, rafelsone must nothave wanted all per in Shangoon because he
hasn't always been used exactly as Iwould use him. So that must have
been Eli and draft Twitter and Rafelhad a different agenda. But he just
let them win one. No,it's possible that long term he is a

(28:29):
big believer in Shongoon's talent, butin the short term, in terms of
one roster decision or one you know, just for a portion of one season,
the way a player is use justbecause the short term vision isn't exactly
the same issuers doesn't mean that hehas a different long term vision or that
he doesn't believe in him in thelong term. It's just it's so easy,

(28:51):
especially with GMing, for people tojust extrapolate everything to extremes and say,
well, if this isn't in alignmentwith exactly what I want right now,
then this obviously means or proves thatthis guy just doesn't like the player,
period and it leads to these conspiracytheories, and a lot of the
time it's just, you know,a reasonable disagreement over you know, what's

(29:11):
best in the very very short term. And shoot, some of this Stragoon
stuff actually wasn't even Rafel's perview atall. Some it goes back to choices
made by the Steven Silas coaching staffand to this year Jokus coaching staff.
Although I think Emai is usually haveShangoon was much more in alignment with the
way a lot of his fans wantedhim to be used. So kudos to
Emy for that and on that subject, get a lot of those guys can

(29:33):
take victory laps, But the sortof spin at full circle. It wasn't
like there was ever this huge discrepancy, and well, we need to find
who's responsible for X and who's responsiblefor why. No, there can be
reasonable short term disagreements, but everyonecan be in alignment over the longer term.
What actually matters that fit? Yousee where I'm going with that.

(29:56):
No, for sure, I thinklisten, it's it was pretty quick,
and it has been pretty quick.And to anybody who's been paying attention to
the to the landscape of how rockets, Twitter and all of the talking heads
analysis has trended throughout time can tellthat there are certain biases and that there
are certain tenders being pushed. Ithink it's very interesting that more than ever

(30:19):
nowadays, there's a lot of peopleout there who claim they have sources,
and many of them do. Truthis, nobody knew about this until you
know what, three four days ago. So it's everybody has all of the
sources, and I'm not saying thatthey don't. But at the same time,
a front office that has been critiquein the past for being too weak,

(30:44):
he managed to keep this somewhat hugenews indoors for a couple of months.
Yeah, and by the way,on that subject, I will say
that this is where proper journalism trainingcan still have a lot of value even
in today's landscape, perhaps more sobased on today's landscape because there's so many
sources and there's so many complexities andnuance to it. Yeah, I absolutely

(31:06):
believe that these quote unquote sources arelegitimate and that some of the talk out
there is based on conversations with realpeople. But not everything you're told by
real people. Well, A itmay not be true, and B they
may be leaving out part of thestory. In this case, obviously the

(31:26):
Rockets were not telling them or meor anybody that they already had an agreement
with Rafell and Eli to keep themaround going back to you know, January
or February, as I understand it. And so it's one thing to have
contacts. That's important. But thenyou can't just then assume that, well,
because I'm cool with this guy orgirl, that they must be telling

(31:47):
me the one hundred percent truth andthe entirety of the story every time that
I talk to them. No,they they have every reason to keep some
things close to the vest, andI think, you know, proper journalism
training will tell you that, andso it's important you know whatever they tell
you to keep you know, tokeep it in perspective and you know,
follow not just words but actions aswell. I'll give you another example from

(32:10):
the last couple of years, hewho he who shall not be names Kevin
Porter Jr. There was so muchtalk about the Rockets being overly invested in
him. Well, look at thecontract they actually gave out. Look at
before everything went down with what happenedin a Manhattan hotel room that led him
to being basically banished from the NBA. They had already made their flagship off

(32:36):
season signing at point guard. Andyet you heard so much talk for years
about, oh, the Rockets viewKPJ As the point guard of the future.
This is so wrong, this isso terrible. They're so overly invested
in him. Look at the actualactions. They gave a contract that gave
them so many outs because they didhave concerns. They brought in a replacement

(32:59):
in his direct position from a yearago. Even the words that they said,
and some of this was public ininterviews, you can't take them at
face value because many times the wordsthat are said, it's just what you
say at the time. Like thelast couple of years, when Kevin Porter
Junior was your point guard, andhe's still a developing, you know,

(33:20):
flawed but certainly very talented, twentyone and twenty two year old prospect.
What do you want the GM tosay, Oh, this guy's never going
to be a point guard, he'snever going to make it. We're just
buying time and you know, thisguy's a head case. No, of
course they're going to spend everything positivein terms of on the record, off
the record conversations because they don't wantthe idea out there that they're throwing him

(33:40):
under the bus. No, theywant to support him. But yet you
have to combine not just what saidagain on and off the record, with
the actual actions taken. And inthat case, it was pretty clear that,
regardless of what intel was or wasn'tout there, that the Rockets had
a lot more concerns with KPJ thanthe conventional narratives about the stonefront office would

(34:06):
lead you to believe. And sothat's an example that's obviously a year or
two old now, but I thinkit sort of ties back into the same
theme, which is that it's notjust about having the relationships and talking to
you know, important people, beit in the organization around the league,
whoever it may be. Yeah,that's part of it. But you also
have to be able to contextualize whatthese sources, what these people tell you

(34:30):
off the record, and understand,Okay, what's legitimate and what's just you
know, blowing smoke their own versionof agenda pushing, because that happens all
the damn time around the NBA team, around the NBA, every team does
it, and so that's just,you know, it's a little distinction,
but it is something that you knowwhen you mentioned the Rockets obviously did not
tell this to people, even theupper echelons. I was talking about this

(34:54):
at Rafel's Tuesday press conference, whichwe'll get to in a little bit the
end of season wrap up that hegave even the higher ups and Rockets media
at top of the food chain.Not gonna name names, but you can
guess what I'm talking about. Theydid not know this the last couple of
months. So this was this wastight lipped, and that happens sometimes around
the NBA, And you have tobe comfortable with knowing the limits of your

(35:20):
relationships. And I think sometimes peoplethat aren't as familiar with these sort of
journalisms source relationships aren't always as awareas they should be of the limitations and
what they don't know, because atthe end of the day, you know,
what you don't know is oftentimes andbeing aware of that is just as
important as what you actually do know. Does that make sense, Yeah,

(35:44):
I think it does. And it'sjust another reminder that people will need to
take everybody's information with the grain ofsalt, because especially people taking on anybody,
yeah yeah, who, especially peoplewho don't do this for a living,
because there's a reason, you know, and especially in sports journalism.
And I don't want to get toofar into this tangient, but this happens

(36:04):
in Europe as well, with youknow, football, in sports journalism is
by far down the type of journalismthat's the most plagued by this. We
have entered into a culture where arumor is taken as a fact. Yes,
really easily right, and as ajournalist, you are very it's it's

(36:27):
it's very rare that the public actuallyloses trust in you unless you do it
over and over and over and overagain, and unless you are unable to
spin whatever you said before into stillbeing somewhat right, which happens a lot
as well. So in an eraof no accountability it or or close to
no accountability. It becomes even harderfor you to be able to and and

(36:52):
and and strap it from what everybodysays and the other thing that that happens.
And I've been you know, Ithink it was the fourth anniversary not
long ago, or it's about tobe the fourth or fifth anniversity that I'm
doing, you know, Rockets contentas a passion project. I was just
a fan before. Something I've learnedis that what often happens is when somebody

(37:15):
gives you information and they do itoff the record, what oftentimes happens is
you feel like your clue in andso you don't doubt whatever that information is.
It's fact from from normal to receiveit just because it isn't public,
because you feel that the other personis trusting you, you don't fact check,

(37:36):
You don't most of the time,you can't and just believe it wholeheartedly,
and your judgment from there on outis clouded by what may be not
false information, but inaccurate information.Sometimes the person isn't even trying to give
you an accurate information if you havegiven it been given it themselves, and
it's it's a huge manipulation game obviously, you know, because public opinion right

(37:58):
nowadays is so easily accessible and soeasily manipulated. Right, So let's just
go back to Sorry, you canfinish your thought. No, No,
I was. I just wanted toget that off my chest and turn it
into after we want to talk aboutthe press confidence because I think we both
have some thoughts, some thoughts onit. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
I wanted to give you one lastchance to talk about keeping Rafel and the

(38:22):
decision there if you wanted to.But I think we said already, Okay,
I'll give me thirty seconds. ThenI'll just put up on it.
It's to me, it's mostly aboutyou don't pay Most analysts don't pay Coast
enough attention to other teams and othersuccessful teams to be able to accurately God,
how many tiny moves they have mademistakes on and how many opportunities are

(38:45):
missed in the past teams in theSpurs teams of the past, and the
Miami Heat teams of the past,and the Golden State Warriors teams of the
past, and no, the Nuggetsteams of the present. You didn't pay
those enough attention to know on aday to day basis what the rumors were
back then, and so to fixateon the small things like second round picks,
they can be important. Nobody isdenying that. You don't need to

(39:07):
affirm it every single time a playergets traded for second round picks. That
doesn't change the fact that overall,hitting on your draft picks, hitting on
your free agents, hitting on yourcoach, having you know, proven improvement
on the course from a season toanother, as large as the Rockets had
what was it, nineteen or twentytwo games to ninety nineteen games. Listen,

(39:30):
those are all things that are factsthat nobody can argue against. And
we may not have right now,perhaps a superstar or I think anybody at
this point looks like a complete superstaron our team, but we have one
of the best collections of your talentin the league. And so rafel Stone,
not just rafelle tms in general cankeep jobs based off one correct,

(39:53):
massive decision just if you have theright young core that can carry you into
keeping your job for a long time. If you if you hit on the
right head coach, even if theteam's not the best, they may carry
you for a long time as aGM. If you hit free agency well
enough, that may carry you longenough as a GM. I think it's
pretty hard to argue against the factthat Raffelstone has hit on the coach,

(40:15):
hit on free agency. Perhaps youcan argue to what extent, but term
free agency, you cannot argue thathe has not hit on the draft.
So he has hit on three andI don't think anybody would argue that he
has not hit on the head coach. So yeah, he has hit on
four massive areas four any in anyother team in the league. A GM

(40:37):
that takes this many massive correct decisionsdoes not have the level of or does
not have as low of an approvalrating within the fan base as Rafaelstone does.
And that's because the fan base isnot misinformed but miseducated on the moves
as they happen, and because theRockets are not exactly one hundred percent and

(41:00):
transparent in the way that they communicatethrough the media to the fans they are.
I think they are more so withlocal media, but with the grand
scheme of things the national media.I think the Rockets a lot of times
allow the narrative to be built againstthem in the exchange or at the cost
of not at the cost, butin exchangely get perhaps a better deal.

(41:22):
A perfect example of this is thethread just real quick. The perfect example
of this is the Fred Endly deal. The Rockets were perfectly happy wedding will
say it's a three year deal foryou know, one twenty close to one
twenty million for Fred and Reid.And what that will lead to is the

(41:42):
first reaction from everybody is this isa terrible deal, and a lot of
people won't stay close enough to therumor, especially in a crowded off season
with a lot of news, topay attention to the fact that, oh,
actually the last year is a teamoffering, which is which is a
massive deal. But the Rockets,you know, artly they allow the rumors
to be out there for twenty fourhours or what have it as this massive

(42:07):
deal that's an overpay because that willbuy them good will with one of the
best agents in the league, whichI believe it's it's report right presently.
Ag. Yeah, so you boughtgood will with that agent. Perhaps that's
part of the reason why you wereable to get a team option on on
after the second year. They thinkthat's more important than the narrative game.

(42:29):
Yeah, but at the same time, your fan base thinks you're worse the
whole week think you're worse, Andhow do you get back on that with
the results. And that's what theRockets have done, and that's why.
So it's you know, stop leavingso much in the moment. And and
there's a lot of people out therein Rockets fan base that want you to
live in a moment way more becausethey have personal chandels against the front office,

(42:50):
against people within their organization. Justto put a ball on it,
the massive decisions are the most important. Details are important, but there's you
know, it's it's very trend tosay that the key is in the details.
Well, no, the key's inthe details. If you get the
big decisions right. If they getthe big decisions wrong, the details don't
matter. Bingo. Yeah, Andyour point about being miseducated, I think

(43:15):
is a fair one. The wayI framed it was think about it from
the context of another team's GM,and for me, that makes me feel
a lot differently about some of thisstuff when I zoom out. Some people
just may not have that context period. It's the same dynamic though, it's
the perspective you get from just hyperanalyzing everything and judging how you feel about

(43:38):
the GM based on daily narrative warson social media or talk radio or podcast,
whatever your medium may be, isn'tin alignment at all with what's going
to make a GM successful at achampionship level at the NBA. There's just
a misalignment there. And I thinkwe both feel the same way on that

(43:58):
one other headwind that Rafel had thatI want to address real quickly. He
followed some very big shoes in JeraldMorey, Well, literally big shoes becau
Darrel's a huge guy, but figurativelyJerald had a great tenure here and so
everything Rafell does gets held to avery high standard. But even Daryl had

(44:20):
plenty of misses and some high profileI was thinking back, of course,
over fourteen years, any GM isgoing to have tons of hits, tons
of misses. What I keep goingback to because some of the decisions,
like obviously the Chris Paul Russell Westbrooktrade, you can get bocked down in
minutia of you know, how muchwas him versus James Harden versus Tilmann,
Fritida, A lot of factors.I think back to the middle of James

(44:43):
Harden's prime in Houston before year eightymillion dollar deal to Ryan Anderson, which,
factoring in inflation in NBA contracts,is like four years, one hundred
and twenty million dollars. Now,that ended up being terrible. Ryan wasn't
even a rotation player by the theend of the second year of the contract.
He was a net negative. Whenyou put him out there in the

(45:04):
twenty eighteen Western Conference Finals on adeal that basically today is like four years,
one hundred and twenty million dollars.He was your flagship signing in a
year that you had set up foreveras having all this cap room right in
the prime of James Harden's career.It was a failure and you had to
offload him using two first run picks. That's how negatively the deal was viewed.
And some will say, well,the Rockets were coming off a forty

(45:27):
one and forty one year, theywere an eight seed, They didn't have
much use, so they had tooverpay. And I guess you can't say
they got one good year out ofBryan Anderson helping them get out of forty
one and forty one land back toyou know, a division champion. I
believe they went or not Division champion, but three seed lost to the Spurs,
and twenty seventeen, the year beforeChris Paul, that was when the
Rockets had that Game six flame out. But they did go from forty one

(45:51):
wins the last before back to midfifties in the first year of Mike D'Antoni.
And so you give Ryan some creditin that, but certainly was nowhere
near the contract that he got interms of his overall value to the Rockets.
Over that spin, it was aclear miss. And even if you
want to say, well Daryl wasoperating with two hands side behind his back

(46:12):
because of the preceding season, wellwho's responsible for that. It's the GM.
Two years before that, the Rocketswere in the twenty fifteen Western Conference
Finals, James Harden on the upand up. So many things go in
their way, and then they letJosh Smith leave. Over the ensuing off
season, they went in on TdyLawson, which turned out to be a
total bust of a move. Thechemistry, which has always been something of

(46:34):
a blind spot for Daryl, atleast at times, we've seen it in
Philadelphia with how the relationships just unraveledwith Ben Simmons and then, of all
people, James Harden the Rockets inthe preceding twenty fifteen to twenty sixteen season,
when everybody around the leagu thought theywere set up perfectly to have cap
room relationships everything to potentially go afterKevin Durant and pair him with James Harden,

(46:54):
his close friend, the Rockets wereso off the rails that the year
after making the conference finals they hadto let Kevin mckille go, or they
felt they had to after like tengames or whatever it was, and they
went through an entire season with aninterim. It was off the rails bad.
And so even if you use thatto excuse the Ryan Anderson signing,

(47:15):
now credit to Dyryl identifying Eric Gordonturned out to be a great signing,
But as far as the flagship,Ryan Anderson was definitely a bust. Even
if you want to say he wasoperating with you know, two hands time
behind his back. Okay, well, he's the guy who tied them based
on a lot of the things thathappened the previous year. And that's not
to say I think jeryld Morey wasa bad GM. No, not at
all. He was a very goodGM. I loved the guy. It's

(47:37):
just even great GMS, if youhyper analyze every single transaction, are gonna
have some mistakes and sometimes even someMiG ones. It's just that you know,
the good ultimately outweighs the bad.And obviously Daryl made up for it
by you know, of course,he always hit his shot as long as
he had James Harden in his prime, and then a year later he was

(47:59):
able to add Chris Paul to themix, and the rest is history.
We know what should have been ifnot for a hamstring. Scott Foster over
twenty seven, take your pick.But the reason I bring up that example
is just to say that even atGM with a very high approval rating,
if you really want to look ata few deals and a short time period
and analyze it, you can findsome bad things. It's just with Jeryl

(48:22):
Moury, we look back on thoseyears fondly because when we look back at
the entirety of fourteen years and theprocess, we say, okay, there
was clearly a lot more good thanbad. With rafel Stone, He's had
basically four seasons and three of themwere an all out rebuild, which kudos
to Tillman for green lighting in thefirst place. He's basically just had one

(48:45):
season where he could aggressively pursue winningat the margins. So my view is
that unless something is so catastrophically offthe rails that you need to step in,
and I don't think the current rocketor that at all, then give
the guy a chance to implement hisvision and see what happens. There's a

(49:06):
reason you hired him in the firstplace after Jerroll left. This season was
the start of that. Let's givehim a few more and that's what this
extension represents. Maybe he lives upto the standard Darrell set, maybe he
doesn't. But if we're just goingto take you know, one or two
years and limited circumstances and try tomake them representative, well, look,
even a guy as good as Derylmoriy you can point to, you know,

(49:30):
a few transactions a particular season ortwo that weren't very good. It's
just he had the chance over fourteenyears to make a lot of deals and
ultimately the good far out weigh thebad. With Afelli hasn't had that chance
yet. So even if there's somethings that give you hesitation, that would
be sort of my cautionary tale.Remember that Daryl was not perfect either.

(49:51):
It's just we had a large enoughsample to trust him. People don't trust
for Fell yet, and that's finebecause again the Rockets have only had one
year trying to build, just aretrying to win. Excuse me, at
three trying to rebuild and then onetrying to win. It's fine if you
don't trust him yet. I'm notasking anybody to give him the same leash
they did Darryl. It's just youshouldn't conclusively feel that you can't trust him

(50:12):
either. It's keep an open mind. That would be the way I frame
my views on this, And ifit doesn't work out, then again we
can have a different discussion a coupleof years from now when his current deal
is getting closer to its expiration.But for now, I think it's completely
justifiable what the Rockets did. Allright, Let's transition to the aforementioned press
conference, because on Tuesday, thesame day that news leaked that he would

(50:34):
be staying around, Rafel also hada press conference in tandem with ima Udoka
to wrap up the recently completed season, and so I wanted to allow both
of us to give at least onehigh level takeaway. What stood out to
us about what was said, Polo, you want to start, Yeah,
Raphael is a lot slimmer, isno, he definitely No. He is

(51:00):
a lot healthier than he did likeAnything's a lot more comfortable within, like
within his own skin than at leastthat That's that was my takeaway, just
listening comfortable. Yeah, the othernow talking about basketball, I have to
go with there's two of them,but I'm guessing you're going to pick the

(51:21):
other one, So I'm just gonnapick one of them. I think his
tone on trades and having to makea movie off season, to me was
pretty not relaxing, but easing assomeone who was somewhat worried that they may
pull the trigger on something too soon. He didn't seem like he was desperate
by any Yeah, he didn't seemdesperate. It's he seemed like one of

(51:43):
those you know what has been sofar in the entire tem of the rebuild,
which is if something really good popsup, they'll do it. If
not, they're not in a allin state at this point. I'll tag
onto that the fact that when hewas asked about then the tenth pick in
the draft, that the Rockets arelikely going to have. He said usual,

(52:05):
if you can get a special player, you get a special player.
But I like that he mentioned therotation is pretty you know, compact right
now. It's really hard to geta new guide to puck into the rotation.
But he did mention that, andnot by these words, but I
got the I got the sense thathe mentioned that you know doesn't mean you

(52:27):
know. I think that will leada lot of people to believe that they
are not going to draft someone becausethey can't play them. But at the
same time, I think he alsohe also led me to a different path,
which was at the same time,trading the pick for a vet makes
that problem even even harder to solvebecause the vet's going to need minutes right
away. And if you do draftsomeone, you can have them in the

(52:50):
tee league for a little bit,right and if and if they are good
enough, that's a good problem tohave, which is interesting, and I
know we'll have other parts to talkabout this, but it makes me wonder
if they are considering a bush shitfurther down the line type of trade,
maybe two first hund picks for picknine from a team that has the potential
to you know, like Brooklyn tofall apart. Perhaps I deal with Brooklyn

(53:14):
where you give them back there thisyear and in exchange you get, you
know, a couple more years ofcontrol. Who knows what would be on
the table as far as that goes. But those were my two main takeaways.
It's it seemed like a lot ofserenity as far as not being pressed
to make a move. And hopefullythis extension makes it so the pressure is
even less the contract extension obviously,and that the top ten pick, you

(53:37):
know, the fact that the rotationis so dense may lead it, you
know to you know, may maymake it so trading the pick for vet
is unlikely, but also drafting aguy may be unlikely as well, And
all open opens a possibility for whatI think at this point would probly be
the best depending on what's available,the best move forward, which is trying

(53:58):
to delay it and quite capital inthe future. I actually had a very
similar takeaway, but I want tospend it more towards free agency than the
draft. I think you covered thedraft fairly well and what some of the
options are there. The quote thatresonated with me was we'll look at things,
but again, I don't view ourroster as we're missing X. We
need to go find it. It'snot like we have a gaping hole.

(54:22):
And that to me strikes at theheart of the twenty twenty four Rockets off
season, which, as I've saidbefore, is about quality over quantity.
If an All NBA type player andthe right you know, age range,
that you think is a fit,comes available, you can't not look at
it, because as good as wefeel about the core six, none of
these guys has performed at even anAll Star level, let alone in All

(54:44):
NBA level on a consistent basis justyet. So in theory, if the
right guy comes along that was openand coming to Houston, that isn't thirty
nine or forty years old, ison the market and you can get some
certainty, of course you would haveto consider it. I just don't know
who that would be. And outsideof that, though, I think it's

(55:05):
much more about trying to maximize whatyou can do from within and the development
of these young guys than whatever typeof player you could realistically bring in,
for say, the mid level exceptionor combining these expiring or last year's salaries.

(55:25):
Some guys that literally expire this summer. You know, you could trade
Jack Landel, for example, andsomebody doesn't pick up his option, although
I think at this point his optionwill definitely get picked up. That contract
very friendly if he shows any valueat all, which he did down the
stretch of this season. So Ithink relative to what the Rockets would have
available to them, with the toolsat their disposal as and above the cap

(55:47):
team and without any clear guy thatthey should want to trade of high value,
that I think the majority of thefocus from a minute standpoint should be
on maximizing opportunity Internally. You wantto get more minutes for both the men
Thompson and Cam Whitmore. You wantto slide Tarry Easton not just to the

(56:07):
role he was in this year,but if he's fully healthy, and I
think he will be. One ofthe takeaways from the conference, they said
that Tari and Steven Adams should befully cleared well before training camp. Tarry
Easton's good enough that he can beplaying thirty to thirty five minutes per game
next season. He couldn't this yearbecause of his leg. It wasn't that
he wasn't worthy of that. Soyou want to get more minutes for a
men in camp. You want toget Tarri into virtual starters minutes, I

(56:30):
think based on what I think hisimpact will be. And then you already
made the move for Steven Adams.In a way, Steven Adams was an
off season acquisition. The Rockets justhappened to do that deal early because they
didn't want to waste Victor Oladipo's salaryslot, and before that was Kevin Porter
junior, and you wouldn't be ableto trade a pending free agent, which

(56:52):
Oladipo would have been if you waiteduntil the summer. So from a salary
math perspective, if the Rockets wantedAdams specifically and they wanted to use all
A Depot as the vehicle, thanthat deal needed to be done in February.
But based on him not being availableuntil next season, it's basically like
the Rockets already made one of theirbig offseason acquisitions. And that defensive compliment

(57:15):
to all per in Shaanngoon at center, that's been a need that's been there
all year. I mean, maybeit goes down a little bit with what
Landale showed down the stretch of theyear, but I think you can still
do better and that's what a healthyStephen Adams would represent. And he's still
fairly young. I mean, itfeels like he's been around a while.
But what is his age. He'sthirty or thirty one? I believe I'm
looking that up now. But thepoint is, yeah, just thirty.

(57:36):
Turns thirty one this summer, andthe Rockets will have bird rights, so
they can keep him beyond this yearif they want. Who knows, maybe
he ends up turning into a ninetype center that ages well gracefully into his
mid thirties. But the reason Ibring that up is that there's already a
lot of guys you need to findeither expanded minutes, more expanded minutes for
or new minutes for in the caseof certainly Adams, but Tari as well,
and that he only played twenty gamesthis season, So I would be

(57:59):
very hesitant to bring in a marginalupgrade that is going to expect heavy minutes
or at least or even moderate minutes, because the Rockets have higher priorities internally.
You know, one of the thingsthat Rafel did below the radar that
I think deserves a lot of creditthe guys he signed the last off season

(58:20):
to smaller roles think Aaron Holliday,Jock Landale, Jeff Green. None of
them were so entrenched that they would, you know, create a fuss,
raise a ruckus, whatever you wantto call it if they got a dnp
CD or only played five to eightminutes in a given game. Their veterans
who buy and large were worthy ofplaying time. But if they had to

(58:40):
take a back seat for some ofthe younger guys with more potential that were
more developmental priorities, they were okaywith that. So I think going into
the off season saying that you don'thave a clear need, and at this
point I don't think they do.It's not like there's someone you want to
ditch from the rotation. It's notlike there's some clear need. I mean
there's little things you can do better. I think if you don't keep it

(59:01):
on holiday, you probably need anotherball handler for insurance purposes. Ideally you'd
have a more above the rim bigtype, maybe taking the BOWBA slid I
think, maybe more movement shooting.You can always use that. But in
terms of the rotation, it's prettyfull as is. So I think going
into the off season with the mindsetthat you don't have to do anything that's

(59:22):
really useful because it tells me thatthey're not going to do anything out of
desperation. When you're do anything outof desperation, that's when you end up
having a bad value deal, gettingsomeone who may not be as amenable to
a smaller role. There's lots ofthings you can do when you go into
lots of bad things you can dowhen you go into off season thinking that
you've got to fill a certain spot, and beyond just the basketball mirrits,

(59:47):
if anyone they sign or trade forone thing that's really important to me going
into this off season, and thisdynamic ties into it perfectly. I think
the Rockets need to get more valuecontracts to help them with trades down the
line, because you know, Landale'sthe one guy that has a number of

(01:00:08):
you know, basically three more yearsof one year options. Jeff Green and
Jayshon Tate if they pick up theoptions, and I don't know that that's
guaranteed, would be going into thefinal year of their existing deals. And
then we talked about in some ofour recent pods. You know, Dylan
Brooks is really the only filler salarythat they have, so for me,
I think it's less about you needto sign X. To use Raffel's term,

(01:00:32):
it's not like there's a desperate needthat you need to splurge or overpay
for. So because of that,you can focus a lot more on value
contracts, exactly what they did lastsummer. Last offseason, they didn't get
for Clopez, and they pivoted toJack Landale, the guy who was willing
to take a very friendly contract.When they didn't get their top of the

(01:00:52):
line targeted acquisition in Lopez, theywent to someone in Jock who was willing
to take an extraordinarily team friendly dealwith all that optionality. Basically every year
of the deal a human walking tradeexception every single year. Even when land
deal was terrible, it was stilla good value for the Rockets. And

(01:01:14):
now that he's shown some positive valuein the second half of the year,
it's clearly a positive deal. Andso I would be stunned if there's no
big trade this summer if the Rocketsdon't pick up that option. I mean,
worst case, he's valuable insurance,it's center, and beyond that,
he's going to be positive trade valueas filler for them in hypothetical deals down
the line. Should they not strikethe big deal this summer. So when

(01:01:34):
you're not desperately going after one needor one position and thus artificially limiting your
market, and also that may makeyou more desperate to promise playing time,
promise roles in a way that candisrupt your chemistry, then you're much more
likely to you know, when youbroaden your pool of potential free agents or
trade candidates, whatever it may be, you're much more likely to get someone

(01:01:58):
that's in alignment from a value perspective, with financially locker room dynamics what you
need. And I think for theRockets, it's not just about the x's
and o's of building a better teamnext year. I mean, sure you
want to help that, but youalso want guys that like joh Landale or
on very friendly terms to help youwith trade filler. And the last point
I want to make on this,I think it's especially important if you do
like Steven Adams, which after talkingto people within the Rockets I think they

(01:02:21):
do. If you want to keepSteven Adams around and you truly believe in
him, then that is the salaryslot that, as mentioned before, was
previously Oladipo and KPJ. So ifyou don't want to trade Steven Adams,
then you need some salary to potentiallyfill what was that slot. And that's
what you can do with some ofyour exceptions this summer, or some of

(01:02:43):
your trade opportunities. If you wantto move one of your expiring guys for
someone that might have a similar dealbut with an extra year on it,
or maybe a extra year that's ateam option, something along those lines.
There's lots of possibilities. But thepoint is I don't want the Rockets to
just focus strictly on basketball, becausewhen you don't have a clear need,
it's not worth what you might haveto give in terms of added money,

(01:03:07):
unfriendly terms promises of minutes. Therecan be a lot of downside. When
you go into a summer feeling flexible, that's when you can really focus on
value and take what makes the mostsense. It's never, you know,
sexy to say well, going intothis offseason, the Rockets want to get
tradable salary, but it is agoal. It is something that they need,
and I think having this approach willmake it easier to find that.

(01:03:30):
Does that make sense to you,fellow? It does, and I think
I think it's interesting that you saidthat they could have done that this year
they didn't use DMLI rightn't couldn't theyhave done that? Well? No,
they were under the cap last year, I know because they signed Fred and
Dylan. But didn't they have not? It's not the Emily, it's well

(01:03:51):
the room of SENSI yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but
that's small enough. Yeah, Isee what you're saying. But that's a
small enough salary that you're probably notgoing to get much banged your back with
that. But yeah, I meanI meant, I meant if you could
do like a like in chocolne Ideal just with anybody out there. But
but no, but I get whatyou mean. It's it's obviously that was
just the thought that that popped intomy mind as you were, you know,

(01:04:14):
asking me the question. I dosee, I do see what you're
what you're going for. It's thetough part is I do agree with you
that I think Chocolin and I wasgoing to get his next care of his
contract care of teach just because it'sso flexible. It's why would you not
unless you have another move that youwant to do with the cap space,
which the Rockets clearly aren't going todo as long as Fred and witchecker than

(01:04:34):
they're not going to have gap space, or it's not going to be worth
it to have gap space because itwould be too little. But it once
again falls on that balance of itneeds to be someone who if they google
for it, right, if theydo, you know, create another human
traded player exception, it needs tobe someone whose reputation is so high around

(01:04:57):
the league that even if they don'tplay, they'll still have some you know,
some in some upside. It's notit's either that or you can do
the reverse and go for someone whoyou still think has potential that would probably
be fine just cashing in whatever yearsthat whatever years end up being taken from

(01:05:18):
that those options that trade exception,right, something someone that comes to mind
that that people you know because it'sanother center, but something that comes to
mind unless he has been extended already, that has been playing well for the
team he's at, that is youngenough, that hasn't made enough money that
they will probably sett off for acontract like that, even if it meant

(01:05:39):
getting no play in time on whysomething goes wrong, is Bulbo who's currently
undersids interesting it's he brings from protection, right, he brings length, he
brings force, spacing. He's adifferent type of big even relative to both
Adams. He's still somewhat young,and he hasn't had enough guaranteed money in
his contract, Like he's not youngerenough to be gambling on upside because he's

(01:06:00):
twenty four. But at the sametime, he hasn't made enough money.
He's been a minimum guy for anentire career for with his what for four
years at this point, years atthis point, let me just talk it,
Yeah, five years at this point. Whereas to the upside of just
having guaranteed money, if it's amillion money, it's what ten to eleven
million? Maybe those numbers are outdated, but that's what he usually is.

(01:06:23):
For him, it would make senseto guarantee the type of money for
a season and give up your flexibilityon further seasons because he has made so
little. And at the same time, as I said, his own he's
not really gambling on upside anymore,even though he was for most of his
career, so the playing time isnot as important. So that's type of
guy that I would be looking atif if that's what they want to move
towards. That's a good suggestion.And by the way, to your question

(01:06:45):
about the room exception, one reasonit could be different now is that for
most of the last year you've hadeither Kevin Porter Junior or Victor Oladipo as
potential salary filler. Where I'm sayingthat may make it a little more important
now now if you're more committed toSteven Adams actually being a part of your
formula, maybe not just next season, maybe it's beyond. Maybe you think

(01:07:08):
long term he's a perfect backup toAl Priincham. Going in his thirties,
he'll more gracefully accept, you know, a twenty minutes per game type role.
Maybe he'll be Houston version of whathe may had in Boston with Al
Horford, although I know those aren'tan Apple to Apple's comp Obviously, Adams
is nowhere nearest developed on the perimeteras Al is. But if you do
believe in Steven Adams being part ofyour blueprint, then that might make you,

(01:07:31):
know, getting a tradable salary alittle more important now than it was
when you had kpga'd, especially whenyou had Oladipo, who was clearly brought
here just for trade purposes. SoI think that's something that the Rockets not
being desperate and going after the typeof player who would command a role command
money that might not be particularly friendlyto the team. If you keep an

(01:07:51):
open mind, if you aren't desperate, then you're much more likely with a
broad pool and not feeling like youurgently have to do something that's going to
make it much more likely that youcan find a guy who financially is in
an alignment with what you need forthat value to be positive not just to
your basketball team, but also toyour trade possibilities down the line as we
talk about team building. By theway, one last asterisk I want to

(01:08:12):
throw on this, all of thisdiscussion is on the assumption that they stayed
the course and there's not a tradefirst star. If hypothetically around the draft
they were to trade for a star, then yeah, at that point I
think the calculus would flip and thatfor starters, any star trade probably involves
the Rockets doing a consolidation move whereyou trade two or three rotation players for

(01:08:34):
one. In that case, well, yeah, you need to use your
exceptions much more aggressively for short termupgrades because there at that point there are
rotation spots and rotation minutes that needurgently filled. And secondly, if you
make an all star level acquisition,then you're implicitly saying, Okay, we're
all in. It's about maximizing everylast drop of the twenty twenty four to

(01:08:56):
twenty five season, as opposed toif you stay the course again, you
want to win, but you canbe a little more balanced than that.
Sure, you aggressively pursue winning witheverything that you have, but you want
to keep the door open in termsof team building as well. All right,
before we get to our last topic, Paalo, I think you had
one more point you wanted to getin. Yeah, I'm surprised you.
So you remember in the beginning ofthe segment, I said, I thought

(01:09:18):
I had two of them, andI took one and I thought we were
going to take the other. Iwas just gonna yeah, I was just
gonna say real quick. I expectedto take his his comments on extensions,
oh, because I felt like he'sobviously keeping neutral. But the fact that
he's mentioning that the they have likethe way the CBA works, we have

(01:09:39):
it's not just year, just anotheryear, I think signals what we've been
saying on the pod or what I'vebeen saying on Twitter, because it's like,
I don't think it's likely that theseguys get extensions this year unless they
take bacod right, And I thought, yeah, yeah, And I just
thought that was sort of baked in. Yeah, no, one hundred percent,
but just so I think I thinkwe'll act by Assistan on Twitter had

(01:10:01):
a poll this week where he askedfans whether they Max extends Stinging right now
this soft season, and it wasan eighty twenty split, which tells me
that an eighty twenty split in anythingin this fan base is an incredible result
for to have that many people agreed. So it tells me that the majority
of people expect him to get extendedto the soft season, and by the
comments that Stone had, he might, but I don't think it's likely that

(01:10:26):
it is adding Max value, especiallywhen he's mentioning, hey, like,
if we don't get it done thisseason, we can get it done the
next seas, and I think that'she can He kind of cautioning people like,
hey, yeah, I agree,we can do it right now,
but we don't have to. Yeah. Social media lives and vibes the business
of the NBA is a lot morecutthroat, and there's no reason for the
Rockets to give out a deal likethat unless they get something back. I

(01:10:48):
know a few months ago we talkedabout the possibility, and you know,
one reason to give him max dealis if you fear that, you know,
he might be an All NBA playernext year, and then it protects
you against you know, the Supermax. But the way Shoingoon finished the year
and bringing in Steven Adams is gonnacut his minutes. I think any scenario
where Shingoon is All NBA next yearto take you into that bracket is very

(01:11:10):
remote. Not saying you can't doit in time, but the idea that
that happens next year, I thinkthat's one of those you know, and
if it somehow happens, and that'sa really effing good problem to have,
but it's probably not something you shouldplan around in twenty twenty four. So
I think the Rockets will draw amuch more firm line and negotiations saying hey,
we need something tangible in terms ofyou giving us something. If we're
going to give you this guarantee ayear early and by doing that eat into

(01:11:31):
our potential flexibility and twenty twenty fiverelative to what they would have with the
cap Poles, which you know,if you turned down the option for Fredman
Vliet or extended him in a lowernumber, could be you know, a
considerable amount of space. All right, last time, I want to get
to real quickly before we close out. We teased to it earlier reasons to
watch the playoffs and what the potentialexit of some of these teams could mean

(01:11:57):
for the Rockets and the landscape ofthe Western Conference and the NBA. For
me, it's pretty simple, Ithink in terms of Houston interest, besides
the obvious that I think most ofus would love to see James Harden get
a ring, although that might actuallyrun in contrast to the criteria about to
lay out other than just little fanstorylines like that. In terms of how
it impacts the Rockets with them notplaying, it's not nearly as impactful as

(01:12:19):
last year, where we were thinkingabout potential free agency storylines and the Rockets
having a lot of space. Idon't think it's going to be that aggressive.
So I think what you're looking foris either a situation where a team's
disappointing exit could either potentially force astar level player to declare situation is crazy,

(01:12:40):
that maybe the Rockets would be interestedthemselves, or if not, maybe
just that team taking a step back, at least if it's in the Western
Conference, would be to the bettermentof the Rockets as they try and move
from eleventh in the standings to gettinghigher up. So I was looking at
the landscape amongst teams that are inthe playoffs, and again is primarily on
the East, or I'm focus primarilyon the West. So going quickly through

(01:13:03):
the East, the only scenarios Ithink could be even remotely connected to the
Rockets, and these are unlikely,but Milwaukee, Cleveland, and Philly.
If Giannis Mitchell or Embiid goes outreally sad, then I think there's,
while unlikely, a chance in allof those scenarios, especially in the case
of Mitchell, that they might askout. And those are the types of

(01:13:26):
players that the Rockets would They're goodenough that the Rockets I think would at
least keep an eye on and inquire. Again not saying I think any one
of those is actually going to happen, But in terms of Eastern Conference,
which is obviously a layer removed,those are the three that I just sort
of have somewhat on my radar.Amongst the West, I would say the
Pelicans with Zion and Ingram, theClippers with their agent Core Harden Kawhi PG,

(01:13:51):
the Lakers with Lebron and AD,the Suns with Kevin Durant and Devin
Booker. It's a little different inthose cases because with the veterans. No,
I'm not saying the Rockets should goafter a thirty nine year old Lebron
James. No, I'm not sayingthat, but what I am saying,
or even like a thirty four yearold Paul George. But what I'm saying
is that if one of those teamsgoes out sad and let's say Paul George

(01:14:15):
decides to go to Philadelphia, whichhas been rumored a few places, then
the Clippers are Lakers taking a stepback, and maybe maybe Lebron just retires.
He seems to leak that every year. Then a team like that taking
a step back is to the bettermentof the Rockets. So it's one of
those things. Again, it maynot be as sexy as oh, somebody
becomes available that the Rockets could govia trade or free agency. No,

(01:14:39):
it's not like last summer, butstill there could be some ripple effects.
And so I'm looking especially at theolder teams. Do any of them go
out sad especially those older teams thathave underachieved a little bit already like the
Pelicans' sons and Lakers. Maybe youcan throw the Clippers in there as well,
given their baggage that could potentially benefitthe Rockets. And then the one
team that already did go out inthe West, which is Golden State.
That is really really useful number.It's always fun to see the Warriors miss

(01:15:00):
the playoffs, especially after the ridiculousfight they picked with Tarry Eathen and then
beyond that with Clay about to becomea free agent. I know they kept
Draymond Green a year ago when folksquestion would they pay all the tax money
to keep that team together? Butthat was one year removed from a championship,
and they did win a playoff serieslast year and got knocked out by

(01:15:23):
a Lakers team that you could argue, you know, had two future Hall
of Famers and one guy, AnthonyDavis. That's a really big matchup problem
for the Warriors without a big manthis year, with the Warriors being the
ten seed and going out sad inthe nine to ten game. Will they
pay even more in the tax tokeep this aging team together? I don't
know. Again, in twenty twentythree they did it, but they're less

(01:15:45):
than a year removed from a championship. Will they do it in twenty twenty
four now that the writing seams onthe wall. I don't know. And
if they don't keep Clay, doesRaymond try to team up with, you
know, Lebron in LA. I'mnot saying it's for sure going to happen,
but this is a year were atleast I would think it's possible that
the Warriors actually do change things upa bit. And if that's the case,

(01:16:08):
with them being directly in front ofthe rockets and the standings, that
could have some impacts on Houston.Powell. Your final thoughts on the Warriors
going outside? Oh, only happythoughts about that one. I didn't actually
watch the game, but I checkedthe vox cood the next day and I
saw Clay thoumbsend that would make asingle shot, and I was like,
damned. So it's like that.It's like, so you carried them,

(01:16:31):
not carry them, but you werethe difference maker between the earlier season Warriors
teams and this close to the seat, and this closed the scene. The
kept the Rockets out of the playin. But then you just went ahead
and you just have what the worstgame ever in the playing You take that
many shots and don't make a singleone of them. But in the context
of the Rockets, do you buythat this could be a year that the

(01:16:53):
Warriors actually do make more drastic changesand thus have a materially different outlook for
next year. I don't know howwilling so about Myers is no longer there.
I don't know how willing they areto let this core right into the
sunset as exactly. I mean,I know Steph, I know Steph is
stuff, but that's a lot ofmoney. You're not that close to a

(01:17:15):
championship anymore to me, the moreI think about it, this actually could
be the year that there's some changes. And obviously you know Chris Paul is
aging out of the league as well. On our side, I don't want
to do I want them to doit because I just don't want to see
I have obviously existing hate for thisteam, so I don't want to see
them together anymore. I just wantthem to you know, just go into
tanking, right. I don't wantto deal with with this team anymore,

(01:17:39):
just they just have our number.At the same time, long term,
if you're thinking long term, whatI would if I were the GM would
be so high on our so ashigh as you can. Probably should have
done that the previous offseason't knowing theresults now, but on on on the
core and you know, go intoa rebuild. That's to me, that's
the correct decision. So I'm stuckbetween wanting them to fall apart quicker,

(01:18:02):
which is the correct decision for them, and wanting them to be long term
bad, which is what they willprobably be if they stick with the score
for a long time, unless someoutlier thing happens, like coming it turns
into an MVP type player. SoI'm kind of stuck in between. But
as far as far as what yousaid about playoff implications, I think most

(01:18:26):
of the implications are as you saidthat teams falling apart because they didn't do
well. The warders obviously are obviousexam I think the Pelicans have bought themselves
some signed by making the playoffs thisyear, as long as they do indeed
make the actual playoffs, they maynot with on out. Yeah, I
think the Lakers, even if theyeven if it falls apart, they now
have for shrump picks. You know, usually it's the Lakers, Oh,

(01:18:48):
the Lakers trying to get a start, but their package sucks. They actually
have I think three tradeable for shuntpicks that they can make them protected in
the main actual start in today's league. So I think the Lakers are going
to stick around regardless of the result. I think the Suns don't really have
any other options. I mean,it would be the Nets situation tenfold because

(01:19:10):
they would be starting it earlier ifthey blew it up after this season,
if even if it's a first roundexit for them, I think the Clippers
are obviously the perfect example if theygo on in the first round. I'm
not helere that you're able. Ithink that's the one that you know is
the flimsiest of these teams. Andthen the MAVs. I'm not sure how
Luk as a killer playoff performer,but I'm not sure how they can convince

(01:19:33):
themselves, regardless of a fifty winsseason, which for them is good,
can convince themselves that moving forward,a Kyrie look announced it duo has championship
potential if they go on in thefirst round this year, So those other
teams are looking at with Dallas.I agree with you that if it doesn't

(01:19:59):
work this year, it may notever. But I just in terms of
team building, I don't think they'reat a point where any of the key
pieces like no matter what happens,even if they get swept in the first
round somehow, I don't think Lucawould ask out this year. You just
gave Kyrie a new contract last year, so I think no matter what,
they stay the course, and sothe impact on the West standings is fairly

(01:20:21):
net neutral based on their exit.I do think in the longer term,
if we're talking two three years atthe time period the Rockets are actually trying
to ascend to contention level, thenyeah, there's some validity to that.
But just thinking in terms of thisoffseason and who's available or what changes might
help the Rockets go up to standings, I don't see Dallas having a big

(01:20:42):
impact there. To me, it'sthose other teams and the Warriors who already
lost. And your point is welltaken. If they say the course,
it just more gradually age out itmay be better for the Rockets in the
long term, but if they breakapart quickly, then it could be to
the benefit of the Rockets next season, because obviously that's the team that was
directly in front of them in thestandings. All right, well, we'll
put a bow on things right here. For Palo Alves, I'm ben to

(01:21:04):
Bo's. If you want more contentbefore our next episode, best place to
get it is on Twitter slash x. I'm on there at Benjubo's, powow
is on there at Palo Alves NBA, and then the show. The logger
line is on there at the loggerline. If you hit the link train
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(01:21:24):
but also our distributors Apple, Google, Spotify, those types of places.
If you go there subscribe, theyhave a positive review. You gelt the
benefit of episodes right when they comeout. Yes, we will be regularly
updating throughout the upcoming off season.We'll pick up draft coverage over the next
couple of weeks as the Rockets getready for the May twelve draft. Lottery,
we'll see what happens with not onlya Brooklyn pick, but small chance
that perhaps they hold onto their ownpick if somehow they end up in the

(01:21:46):
top four. Not a likely possibility, but you know, somewhere between five
and ten percent certainly not impossible,depending on what happens in the lottery.
So we will have updates on thatand many other subjects throughout the off season.
And and if you subscribe to theprogram and hopefully leave a positive review,
then you'll get those episodes, thoseupdates right when they come out.
And with your positive review, wecan keep looking good to those friends,

(01:22:09):
partners, and sponsors as one ofthe most active podcasts covering Houston Rockets basketball.
All right, with those plugs complete, we'll ajourn for Paolo. I'm
Ben, Thanks always for listening,and please come back soon for another new
episode of The Logger Line.

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