Andy Katz joins Wayne & Matt

Wayne and Matt chat with University of Wisconsin grad, Big Ten Network/ESPN/NCAA Reporter & Analyst Andy Katz.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So they leave and it's just literally me then Senator Obama,
secret Service and our camera and a producer, so I
have there. I'm there for thirty to forty minutes, just
the two of us, and we'd already done the interview,
so we're just talking. Were talking about basketball, dada da,
and I just literally just had an epiphany and I said, hey, Senator,

(00:20):
if you win, I want to come to the White
House and do the bracket. And he said, hey, that's
a great idea, and to their credit, they kept the promise,
and months later, two thousand and nine, I did it,
and we did it every year throughout his presidency.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
This is the Larravian La Peye Podcasts, a production of
iHeartRadio Podcasts with hosts Wayne Larravie, the voice of the
Green Bay Packers, and Matt Lapey, the voice of Wisconsin
Badgers football and men's basketball. The Lavian La Pey podcast
is presented by UW Credit Union. Here for every you.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
Hi, everybody, I'm Wayne Larabee. On this episode of the
Lara of Ila Pay podcast, we check in with Andy Katz,
Reporter Extraordinary for Turner Sports and the Big Ten Network.
Was a busy weekend as college basketball starts lapping over
college and pro football. We'll discuss it all. Stay tuned.
Good stuff coming up on the Laraviela pay podcast. Got

(01:23):
Cheddar on your Mind? Uw Credit Union can help with
fee free checking and great rates to let you keep
more of your cheese. Join at WCu dot org insured
by NCUA Equal Opportunity Lender. We welcome in Andy Katz,
who's been an outstanding reporter and analyst along with the

(01:44):
sidelines of college basketball with a Big ten network NCAA tournament.
A University of Wisconsin Madison graduate, a history and political
science major. Andy, that was kind of I had a
political science minor. These are interra times outside of sports,
are they not? Well?

Speaker 1 (02:03):
And here's the crazy thing. You know what my certificate was.
My minor was in Soviet and East European studies.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
Wow, so let's talk about Ukraine? How about that? What
is that ever? Covered? Handy? Yes?

Speaker 1 (02:19):
I use it all the time. Also shows that I'm older.
The fact that when I went to school, the Cold
War was still happening and the Berlin Wall was still up.

Speaker 4 (02:29):
So you were you were on campus covering the Wisconsin
Arizona game last week? You are back on campus from
from time to time when you get back to town,
where's the first place you need to visit?

Speaker 1 (02:42):
Well, because I'm also on the board of visitors for
the School of Communications, sort of just drawn to Vilas
Hall and so I feel like I'm always there, and
I really spent most of my four years in that building.
And the crazy thing it has not changed. In fact,

(03:03):
at our meeting they were talking about all that. I mean,
it's crazy to see all the incredible, you know, buildings
that have gone up and redone in business school and everything,
and that's the one building that has not really been
touched yet that in Humanities and literally the furniture everything
looks the same. I'm sure it's filled with asbestos and

(03:24):
lead and everything else, you know, just because it's been
there since probably the forties, I don't know, but you know,
I always go there. This was kind of quick, so
I felt I missed my opportunity to get to the Union,
which I usually go to and Bascom Hill. I love
taking walks along the water or run along the water,

(03:49):
so I missed on that opportunity, especially because the weather
was so great. Just because it was kind of an
in and out quick trip. But hopefully next time. But
those are sort of the spots that I always feel
like I got to go.

Speaker 3 (03:59):
To Andy, tell us a little bit about how you
got to where you are now. I mean, you know,
coming up the ladder, the way you have to to
be a sideline reporter, to be an analyst, that kind
of thing. How did you get going after you left Wisconsin?

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Well, one thing I wanted to say that that and
I say this to now students, you know, and we
met with students, and I do this every time is
first of all, never burnt a bridge, and you never
know when someone will help you. And I'm really conscious
of that now, of paying it forward. And so one
of the spots that it's not like a Michelin restaurant

(04:36):
or anything like that, But what has a warm spot
in my heart is the nitty gritty because Mars Shapiro
actually was the first one who gave me outside of
like the Daily Cardinal, like a real shot. And I
cannot remember, and I wish I could. I can't remember
what the connection was, but I knew someone who knew him,

(04:56):
and we were introduced and at the time he was
working for wiv A, and so he hired me to Uh,
to basically go get sound at the time with literally
like a sid Hartman recorder. Okay, we're all dating ourselves
by saying that, you know, with the handheld mike and

(05:17):
the pushing the button the cassette tape. And I went
to lambeau Field a number of times, uh, you know,
to get Packers sound. I went to Brewer Games, Buck Games,
and you know, that was sort of my first foray
in the in the professional sports of of just being
in locker rooms outside of you know, being a student reporter.

(05:37):
And then at that, you know, then it went from
there to to the State Journal and then and the
thing I also brought up that I really because we
talked about how this, you know, the current landscape is
so difficult and one thing again, I'm I definitely owe it.
The beginning of my career was we had a deal
that the current sports edt of the Daily Cardinal was

(06:00):
essentially like a paid intern of the Milwaukee Journal backing
up the full time person. So the year so prior
to me it was Rob Heerrnandez Phil Treewan, and then
it was me. Those were a three in a row
and my year. Here's a name from the past it
was Dennis Chapman who was the beat writer, and so

(06:24):
I was his backup, and he was new because he
was a news guy and he was brought over to
do sports, and so he kind of leaned on me
a lot because I knew everybody, and so I got
a lot of opportunities back then and covering football and basketball,
and then they gave me the hockey beat, and then

(06:45):
they went and won the national championship. Wow, And they
sent me to Detroit and that team was littered with
NHL players, and so I had like front page stories
in the Milwaukee Journal as a senior in college and
like that just does doesn't happen, and so you know,
and that springboarded me to ultimately do it, going to

(07:06):
Albuquerque and then to to Fresno to cover tarc and
while I was there, that's when I was freelancing for ESPN,
which then catapulted me to ESPN. So they're like all
these dots connect. And the one other thing I got
to just tell you that another thing I always tell
young people, and not to sound like the old guy,
but I mean this is true. You never know what

(07:29):
someone is going to be interested in that might hire you.
And that year, I was working with the Milwaukee Journal
of all things. Aaron Pryor was making a comeback in Madison.
The boxer wait, and I knew nothing about boxing. This
is zero, but they sent me to cover it. And

(07:50):
so I covered this boxing event Aaron Pryor as this
comeback and I can't even remember where Madison was, but
it's just this bizarre whole scene. And I write all
these stories. And at the last second, when I was
getting the job to cover well, when I was applying
for the New Mexico job, I think, you know, let
me just throw this in as something like just different.

(08:11):
Turns out the sports editor in Albuquerque huge boxing guy huge.
He sees that he and he immediately says, oh, this
guy can do pretty much anything. And I mean, at
twenty two, I got hired over a lot of other people.
And he told me that that was one of the
main reasons that he hired me, because I showed I

(08:33):
could do more. And so, like you never know how things,
you know, how it all connects.

Speaker 4 (08:38):
I remember I covered that deal too with their implier
who was from Ohio. I was on the phone a
lot with a reporter at WLW radio in Cincinnati, because
he had to get cleared. He had an eye inject
I had medically cleared, and the and the event was
on again, off again, on again, off again. I can't
even think of where, like you, I can't think of
where exactly it ended up. You know that some church

(09:01):
or something I think it was. And he couldn't even
tell you the guy. I think it was a phantom
punch that knocked the guy out. But it was a
bizarre It was a bizarre day. I appreciate what you
said said a couple of minutes ago that never burnt
a bridge, because you never know what could come back
around for you. And I remember while I was talking

(09:21):
to your Friday night and you mentioned working out at
the Fresno b and covering Jerry Tarkanian's PRESDO state team.
Oh my goodness, the stories, the personalities, and you know,
from Chris Harron to Melo Eli, that's probably twenty years
worth of stories into what two or three years you
were out there with them.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, I was there four and I will say that
was by far the most challenging part of my career
outside of when you know which I can tell the
second boat when I got laid off with the money
cut back to ESPN because so then I was only
like twenty five or twenty six, and I'm thrust into

(10:02):
basically there's news every day. And the columnists at the
time was Adrian Wadronowski. Okay, so we were there together
and because we had both applied to be the beat writer,
and then they they said they want to take us both,
so they made him the columnists, me the beat writer.
But then they basically essentially at one point said that

(10:23):
I had to be the good cop in him the
bad cop, because they wanted because they had all these
loyal fans that you know, loved Tark and they want
copying the paper. Yet there was constant chaos, and so
I constantly had to walk this fine line of getting information,
helping our news side, but at the same time talking,

(10:44):
you know, just doing basketball and covering Tark and all that.
And it was a hard straddle that I was. I'll
be honest, I was very stressed the whole time I
was there because something was always happening something.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
Well tell you know, and I don't want to make
this just about Tark, but he is one of the
most interesting, polarizing, endearing figures all wrapped into one and
in the history college basketball, what kind of when you
peel back the layers of that onion, what kind of
guy was he?

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Well? And so I had an interesting vantage point because
I caught him at the end, and so he was
a little softer for lack of a better term. You know,
he wasn't as I mean, I just I wasn't. You know,
I didn't cover him in the heyday of UNLB in
the eighties, so he you know, I he was older.
I mean, he had he would forget things, and uh,

(11:42):
you know, it was kind of like when I would
I mean, I took many trips with him, and you know,
because they wanted me to like always be with them,
and it was almost like I was, you know, with
my grandfather or something. But I mean because I had
sort of shaper him around sometimes. But no, he was
the people that he that attracted to him. It was
care It was like a it was like a sitcom,

(12:02):
you know what I mean, or like sopranos more like
you know, because there was I'll never forget his buddy
from Piero's, the Vegas restaurant. There was one game after
they played Santa Or State and he goes into the
locker room, and uh, he's congratulating all the players for

(12:24):
the money that he made off of them because they
covered the spread and you know, like and just that
kind of stuff just happened, just happened. But you know
the thing it's crazy is his whole career was fighting
the NCAA and all these rules. And it's really I
do really wonder what would he think now when essentially

(12:48):
everything's legal, you know what I mean, it's now above
the table, And like I do wonder, like, well, what
would you think of all this because like there's no
shady deals, it's just all happening.

Speaker 4 (12:59):
It is where thinking about the Wisconsint they had the
shoe box deal like twenty five years ago, and now
it's like, really that's all you got? I mean, have
you get ramped up?

Speaker 3 (13:08):
Baby? This is not good enough.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
And idear to God that that when I talked to
Bow at the Hall of Fame, I forgot that's when
he came in.

Speaker 4 (13:16):
Yeah he inherited that, Yes, yeah he did. They had
a couple of guys they had to kind of monitor,
you know, or minutes or whatever they were. They had
a couple of guys maybe the previous year had to
sit for a couple of games. The football guys that go.
But yeah, the sanctions, I think we're still a little
bit in existence there. We'll go back to tark though,

(13:37):
I mean, love him or hate him, a true character
of the game. And people now they watch college sports,
who are the characters? Who are the coaches that you
genuinely you know they're they're really good at what they
do what you would describe as a character. Is there
still a cluster of coaches who fit.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
Well, it's unfortunately declining because guys are retiring or passed.
You know, there's no question that cal John cal Perry
is a character, and he continues to be now at Arkansas.
You know, I think Tom Izzo is in his own way.
Uh So those two jump right out, you know to me,

(14:16):
you know, the I mean we just you know, Beehon
just left, you know, Roy Kay like Kay was as
much a character. But you know, I mean, I think
those are the sort of the two that jump out
the most. I mean, Bill self obviously is you know,
one of the winningest coaches now at Kansas and all time,

(14:38):
but he's not He's a little more reserved in that sense.

Speaker 5 (14:42):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
You know, we don't have John Cheney anymore, Nolan Richard's
and Bob Huggins. So it'll be interesting to see if
any of the younger guys, you know, go in that direction.
I mean, like, you know, someone like Pat Kelsey who
constantly sort of puts on a show. I don't really
know what the real person is there. We'll see if

(15:04):
he can be successful at Louisville to where that is relevant.
But he tries to be that. I will see if
that plays out that way.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
All right, guys, I got to tell you, in my
early days of doing television college basketball, it was the
Missouri Valley Conference back in the eighties. You talk about characters,
let's start with Dick versays, Nolan Richardson, Jean Smithson. Goodness,
and they had players, My god, that they have players

(15:31):
on that level. Nothing like the I mean, the Valley's
a good league, don't get me wrong. It still is
to this day. But back then they had real meat
and potatoes kind of players. It was really something to cover.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, And you know, I feel like coaches today are
a little bit more. They're more guarded, you know, and
and and some of them maybe don't have the equity
that they had. And I think this is happening in
football too. Oh yeah, you know I know that that
that there. I mean I think back just when I
was in college. You know, we had Hayden Fry at Iowa.

(16:10):
Bo Schambeckler was a Michigan. I think I think what
he's was already gone. But you know there was definitely
well turn state, Yeah, you're Joe fraternal.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
And then and then in his old way sort of
Barry comes in. I mean, but you know, and he's
a presence, So there was definitely I mean, that's definitely
dissipating as well.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
On Wisconsin off fees, get fee free checking options in
war at UW credit Union, join at u W, c
U dot org. Terms and conditions apply ensured by n
c U. A. You mentioned a few minutes ago you
were in Springfield when when Bo Ryan was inducted into
the Nasement Basketball Hall of Fame, a character in his

(16:55):
own category. Yeah, I guess people around here were pretty
impress that he actually stayed under the shop clock with
his speech, which was really good. And I mean you've
gotten to know him, You've obviously interviewed him dozens of times.
When I say the name, you know, coach bow Ryan,
what's the first thing that comes to your mind.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
Well, I just think of being a winner. I mean,
that's the word that pops in my head. I mean,
I don't have the stats in front of it, but
I don't know if he even had a losing season.
You know, he just he just always won and he
did it his way, stubborn. And actually, you know, he's
another interesting you know, how would he handle this current
situation and also how would he handle the change in personnel?

(17:39):
And that's one thing not to get ahead, but I'm
really impressed. Even just two weeks in, already we're feeling
like greg Gard has adapted to the personnel and not
like this is the way we play. You come here,
this is how you play. He's got guys that can
go up and down and score. Okay, let's go. You know,
I don't I'm not saying bow wouldn't you know it

(18:00):
was hard to get that kind of player at Wisconsin
and so you know, who could just fill it up.
I mean they had the great run where they had
some scores, but even like Frank Kaminsky, no one thought
he'd be that kind of a score. I mean, you know,
so would he adjust to the way the game is played,
what do you deal with nil and the collective? And

(18:24):
you know, like the one thing we don't I mean,
I've talked to coaches, but I don't really have a
full grasp of how much time they have to spend
on that that pulls them away from I mean, I
know that's why they're hiring specific people for that at
a lot of these schools, including Wisconsin. But the time
spent that you got to.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
Deal with that.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
And I go back to like last March, I'm doing
sideline in the in the region in Boston, and I'll
never forget during the shoot rounds that day for the
for the Sweet sixteen, Brad Underwood comes in and he
was like sort of hurrying in and he's like, oh,
I was just on the phone dealing with the portal,
you know, for next year, and he's about the coach

(19:06):
of the Sweet sixteen.

Speaker 5 (19:08):
You know, if it had been the Elite eight game,
then maybe people would have been critical because so poorly,
but they won the Sweet sixteen yet, But yeah, I
mean the fact that you know that they're dealing with
this stuff all the time.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
Yeah, you know, Andy, you bring up such a great
point of how coaches and I don't care if it
if it was Bob Knight, any of these number of personalities.
We talked about bow Ryan, anyone like this, and I
am really impressed, as you are, with Greg Gard and
the way he has adopted. He came from the bow

(19:40):
Ryan tree. They do things a certain way. They get
a player as a freshman. He doesn't probably see much
light of day as a freshman, but a little bit
more as a software they develop, and he's in All
America as a junior and senior and he goes on
from there. That's the type of thing. And I talked
to Greg Guard about this about two years ago when
I was in there to do a game, and he said,
you know, this is where a program like ours is

(20:03):
getting hurt because we develop our players, and that's not
the case. These players don't. They don't have that long
an attention span, they don't have that much patience to
wait on their careers. And then you've got people say, well, hey, listen,
if you come over here to Akron, we'll get you
a nice little stipend and you'll play right away. That
kind of thing, and so the kid flips in a year.

(20:26):
It's really changing. But I think the great coaches, and
Bob Knight probably begrudgingly would have changed, so would Bow
as you pointed out, And I think we're seeing it
with Greg Gard very much a system type of coach,
but a guy who's had to adapt to what's going
on in the game today and player movement, and that's huge.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Well, and I will say this, I think you know,
there are collection of schools that do this. Marquette Shak
has been able to do that, certainly Matt Painter for
the most part, Toime Izzo. I think you can include
Mark fu doing that, Gonzaga and obviously Dan Hurley Yukon
where yeah, they're bringing in some guys, but they really
are also developing and that's obviously, you know, important to

(21:10):
have consistency in the program, and so that allows them
to do that. I mean, I will say that I
don't know about you, but I kind of feel like
that the coaches might have going from era to era
having a harder time, would have a harder time than
if we were to pluck a player from another era
and put them into this one.

Speaker 4 (21:30):
No, it's a great time. I need a lot of
ways to be to be a player. My question is,
and we were all trying to figure out how this
is going to look in the next couple of years,
even with revenue sharing coming on the path to that
effective for next season. But the biggest complaint that I
hear is not the players are getting money, is that
every year a players a free agent. What's the most

(21:52):
realistic solution to that? Is there a way to get
a binding if it's two years whatever, some multi year
agreement where okay, you will make this from revenue share.
You could get such as such from nil, but we
need two years from you.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
So last summer, but this past summer, I was on
a panel at the NCAA Basketball Academy in South Carolina
and it was me Julie ed Zachie's mother, Ranolph Childress,
you know, former Wake Forest player and Lasting Hicks. I'm
drawing a blank from the NCAA. And what we were

(22:28):
talking about was that collectives, and I do think there's
donor fatigue, Okay, yes, that some of the collectives are
starting to put in their own guardrails. So for example,
you know, if you're going to make the number up,
if it's two hundred thousand, whatever it is, and you

(22:48):
have two years left, well you get seventy five and
you get one fifty, you know, sort of an incentive
to stay. They're also putting in deadlines that at you know,
the transfer portal, if you leave before May thirty first,
we're gonna ding you a little bit. And they're also

(23:09):
starting to put in some clauses, like in a coach's
contract of behavior. You know, if you you know, misdemeanor,
whatever it is, there are going to be fines. And
so I do think more teeth will be put into
this going forward, because I think it has to. It's

(23:30):
not sustainable in the current format. And clearly the other thing,
and I was talking to one of the administrators Friday
Night schools and even in the Big ten and all
that they're gonna have to make some tough choices in
the next couple of years with some of their Olympic sports. Okay,
where are we good? Okay, so Wisconsin, we've always had

(23:51):
good soccer programs. Maybe these other programs aren't as strong.
So now we're gonna make those club or you know,
we're not gonna fully fund those scholarships. I mean, it
can't they can't.

Speaker 3 (24:03):
Have it all.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
You can't have this unbelievable, you know, medical training, travel
for everybody and the other thing. I just think at
some point we're gonna have to have regional Olympic sports.
It just doesn't make sense for Wisconsin's soccer team to
be flying to Seattle. It doesn't. I mean, there's just

(24:25):
there's enough schools that aren't bustible around you know, play
to Paul, play Notre Dame, play ui C. I mean,
there's plenty of schools, and I knew they'd do some
of that, But you could form your league, do all
those games and then meet, you know, for a regional
or a national championship. It's just it, there's gonna be

(24:45):
a breaking point on the money spent on all the
other sports if the goal is to make sure your
money sports at you know, football, men's basketball, and and
you know, you guys know better than I do. Like
at Wisconsin, I probably would put when volleyball three right now,
and you know, maybe ahead of hockey. I don't know,

(25:05):
I mean, but you know, certainly women's volleyball is up there.
So you have to decide, Okay, it's not maybe it's
not all our traditional sports. What are our best sports?
Where do we have the best attendance and make money,
and it will differ from school to school.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
Yeah, I think you could be.

Speaker 4 (25:20):
Women's women's hockey maybe on the line, but volleyball right
now because the popularity, you know that the fans can relate,
They see the athletes, they know what they look like.
So yeah, it would be it's football, men's basketball, and
volleyball right now. And that's the Yeah, that's the challenge
being an athletic director. You're well compensated, but you're probably
having a lot of very uncomfortable conversations with the coaches

(25:43):
now about what Liza had, So you're probably not winning
any popularity contest, doesn't matter if it's Wisconsin or any
place in America. I would think, right, and yes, and look, you.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Know, I mean I don't want to get in the
weeds and you know of coaching firings in season, even
on a staff. But maybe I'm wrong, like I don't
feel like that happened ten years ago, fifteen years ago,
that the pressure to win is so great, but also
the salaries for the assistant coaches in football, men's basketball,

(26:13):
especially football is so high that if you are you know,
not you know, competing at the level you want, you're
subject to getting fired just like a head coach, which
I don't. I just don't feel like we saw that
and maybe I'm wrong, but am I right?

Speaker 4 (26:30):
Like we're seeing them more now, I think as.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Well, next level the assistant the coordinators, you know, getting
fired in the middle of the season because but but
I think it's also how much money they're making and
because we've got to be a certain level.

Speaker 4 (26:45):
Yeah, yeah, a coordinators now are being paid seven figures
not to coach. If there's time remaining on the contract
and you were fired without costs, it's just yeah, with
the money comes to as you as you say, as
you say the pressure. I know you're on the but
I want people to know where obviously you were covering
doing work for the Big ten network, but you wear

(27:07):
many hats at where could people see slash read Andy
Katz these days?

Speaker 1 (27:13):
And that was my point, just to circle back Wayne
about never burning bridges, that when I left ESPN, I
left in good standing. I didn't trash the company, and
I still had two years left on my contract, and
that allowed me to work for the Ncable and Turner
and the Big ten Network even you know, sort of
a carve out even while I was still finishing my
ESPN contract. And that's because I didn't burn a bridge.

(27:35):
I left, not my pall because it was a money thing,
but in good standing. So that sort of circles back.
So yes, Big ten Network, March Madness, social media accounts,
ncuble dot com. Obviously we'll be on Turner during the
naw tournament and yeah, so that's that's sort of the

(27:57):
main at the Andy Katz, at the real Andy Canas
on Instagram, some of the other Eddy Cats out there.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
So I had to do beths gotcha, hey, Kate before
I let you go. I was fascinated by earlier in
your career, I believe the forty fourth president of the
United States. You he became tight Barack Obama, who was
a huge basketball fan, a huge college basketball fan, especially
you and him. He got together and used to do bracketology. Yes,

(28:26):
how did that come about? What was he like to
deal with?

Speaker 1 (28:29):
All right, so I'll tell you the quick story. So
I did all eight years, uh, and went many other
times to the White House for other things, like you know,
when teams would come and we did some Title nine
stuff and interviewed him on the USS Carl Vincent when
we did that Michigan State North Carolina game. But I
was doing a story at the time for Outside the Lines.
Before the eight election, I had the Obamas, someone else

(28:52):
had in the mccains, and I did basketball in the family,
and so the whole summer I was interviewing is brother
in law Michelle Obama. We went to the convention, and
the last interview was ten days before the election, and
that was with him, and I met him at a

(29:12):
Hampton in and done, North Carolina. He was about to
speak at Fort Bragg. And the nugget here is that
morning I meet the press, Colin Powell endorsed him over McCain.
And the reason that's important is David Axelrod, who was
in the room, says, hey, we got to rewrite your speech.
Stay put. I had already done the interview. So they

(29:33):
leave and it's just literally me then Senator Obama, secret
service and our camera and a producer.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
So I have there.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
I'm there for thirty to forty minutes, just the two
of us, and we'd already done the interview. So we're
just talking or tam about basketball, da da da, and
I just literally just had an epiphany and I said, hey, Senator,
if you win. I want to come to the White
House and do the bracket, and he said, hey, that's
a great idea, and to their credit, they kept the

(30:02):
promise and months later, two thousand and nine, I did it,
and we did it every year throughout his presidency.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
Wow, amazing.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
Refresh my memory. What was the deepest he had Wisconsint going.
I'm trying to remember, I should I kind I snuck
up on you with that one. I don't know if
he had him in the maybe maybe once in the
final four. I can't remember. I can't remember either. Yeah,
it's a lot of teams you got to cover there,
so yeah, we'll google it. We'll google it.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
But it would have to be a lot of fun
to do it right. We would see is stuff right?

Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yes, and he got to write once the first year,
but that was kind of easy. Remember that was that
North Carolina team that was loaded brush Michigan State in
Detroit in two thousand and nine, So that was kind
of a layup because they were heavy favorites to win
the title. Tyler hansbro that whole crew.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
Yeah, they were pretty good. They were pretty good.

Speaker 4 (31:00):
God, Andy, we appreciated man. I know you've got a
lot lot going.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
On, but well, thank you.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
Yeah, hopefully we'll see you back in Madison, I know
somewhere along the circuit, so uh say, travels and we'll
see us soon again.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
Special thanks to Andy Katz for dropping by. Man. I
know we could go out on a number of different
directions with him. Very interesting guest. We've got to get
him back when he has a little more time and
probably get into the Eastern European inspect that in background
in terms of his degree in political science. But he's
an interesting guy. Really great guest. Hey, what a weekend

(31:37):
you had in Madison. You had bo Ryan being acknowledged
by you know, the u W crowd for his recent
induction to the probe and to the the Basketball Hall
of Fame, just the Basketball Hall of Fame, pro and college.
And then you have ninth ranked team in the country
Arizona into play basketball against the unranked Badgers. That's Friday night.

(31:59):
The next night it's the number one team in the
nation in football taking on the Badgers. What a weekend
in Madison. Yeah, it was quite the roller coaster.

Speaker 4 (32:08):
It was a chance for Bull Ryan to get his
name out of banner and it's up in the rafters now.
Alongside Ab Nicholas and Frank Kaminski and Michael Finley very
much deserved recognition for bow They brought back as many
players who could get back here from the final four
teams of twenty fourteen and twenty fifteen. It was interesting too.
I was talking with Andy friday night and his thoughts

(32:30):
on those teams that he thought the fourteen team was
maybe the one with the best chance to win it all.
They lost in that late shot by Aaron Harrison in
the semifinals. He believed they would have matched up really
well with Yukon in the championship game, and it was just,
you know, it's kind of those what might have been
kind of moments. But it was fun seeing those players
get back and I know they stay in touch as

(32:52):
best they can. That was a team with great talent
and big personalities that fans really embraced. And then a
game itself against a Zona. It was a foul fest.
Wisconsin's forty one to forty seven at the free throw
line in that game against Arizona. But they they're scoring
points and you know, and Greg guard you talked about
it with the Andy and Andy mentioned it too. Greg

(33:15):
and the offense it's involved. You get the influence of
Kirk Penny, you got Greg Steams about coming back. He'd
worked first with the Minnesota timber Rolls and were recently
with the San Antonio Spurs and just bringing some new
concepts into what they're doing offensively defensively. Will say they're
a work in progress. But it was a magical night.
I mean a court storm in mid November. That's you know, okay,

(33:35):
that's cool. And then Saturday, that's another what might have been.
The defense played as well as you could possibly hope
for against a really explosive Oregon offense, but the Badger's offense. Now,
Oregon's defense was really good. Let's set that out there
on the table. But beyondgoing inconsistencies and not just this year,

(33:57):
not just last year, but really the last five seasons
if you want to count the COVID, ye're just very,
very inconsistent. And that was one of those, again, kind
of heartbreaking losses for Wisconsin. A chance to do something
magical against the top ranked team in the country. By
credit to Oregon when it had to make the plays
it did, and that's what championship teams do. Yeah, I

(34:19):
felt the same way watching that from Afar Matt. Just
an excellent game, great effort by Wisconsin, but that you know,
championship caliber team that they seem to have at Oregon.
Like you said, when they had to make the plays,
they made the plays, and that's often the way football
games go. Phil Longo let go as offensive coordinator. Yeah,

(34:42):
we talked about it with Andy earlier. I mean, things
like this are happening.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
More now than they ever have. You know, there's so
much it used to be the head coach and you
talked about the head coach of Bo Shambeckler, who is
his offensive courting? Who knows? Who cares? It's Bo Shambeckler,
you know that kind of thing. Whereas today these offensive
and defensive coordinators are in the headlines a lot. They're
in the story as much as the head coach, and

(35:07):
there's a lot of pressure of that spot, isn't there?

Speaker 4 (35:09):
Yeah, there really is.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
I go back.

Speaker 4 (35:11):
Wisconsin made a move early in twenty twelve under Brett Belamm,
and this was the first time and it probably happened before,
but it's the first time I really started to notice
it in college football.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
There was another.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
Program I think like a week prior, may have made
a change with its coordinator, and we're here, we're laughing, like,
what are they doing? What are you doing letting the
coach go. One week later, it happens that Wisconsin Brett
Let's go of his offensive line coach. But you are
seeing them more in the NFL certainly, and at the
college level. The move itself wane. I'm not going to
say I was surprised by it. You never know when

(35:43):
you know, when the news comes down on a Sunday afternoon,
you know, not long after the Packers blocked the kick
to hit the end of the game against the Bears,
you're like, oh, okay, But it's just I do think
with if you want to call it, pressure to win,
the expectation of being better, and the offense just continues
to spin its wheels. I do think two things can

(36:05):
be true. One, you can be very good at your
craft in Phil Longo, is the record proves that you
know what he did, you know more most recently at
North Carolina before he came came to Madison. But maybe
the fit wasn't right for whatever reason. And if you
need a different voice, whatever the messaging is or whatever
you're trying to do, if you feel like you need
to make a change. Then I guess why. Wait, I

(36:27):
think that's the philosophy, not just with Luke Fickle specifically
with this case, but we're seeing this with coaches around
the country.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
You know, you mentioned something that I don't know, and
I know you talk to a lot of groups and
I do too, and sometimes they're business groups, and sometimes
you know, they want they want to know how sports
teams operate. I mean, what do they value? And I
often tell them And you just mentioned it fit. Okay,
whether it's a player, a coach, whatever, Fit is important.

(36:57):
And what is fit I don't know. It some intangible
out there that's hard to explain. But the fact is,
if you're in a business and you have somebody to
hire for your office, you better be considering some of
the things besides that are not on the resume, like personality.
How will this personality fit with the people in our office?

(37:18):
And they do the same thing in sports. How does
this coach fit on our staff? Does he fit in?
Does he rankle people? Does he blow it up? Same
thing with players. We see it all the time. And
Ted Thompson was so mindful of this over the years
in Green Bay. Oh yeah, I'd like to have that
free agent, but you know what, he doesn't fit us.
He's not one of our Jerry Krause that Chicago with

(37:39):
the bullsos always used to say, Okay, Pete are kind
of people, and you know, that's so important. And sometimes
you hire someone and you don't know until he's on
staff as to whether he's going to fit or not,
and then at some point maybe the fit changes and
all of a sudden it's not working out. It's but

(38:01):
that part of it, that the human aspect of how
will these people get along, how will they work together,
especially in team sports, that is so important, and I
think it translates very much into the office world, the
real world where you're hiring people to be a financial
this or that and the other thing. You know, how

(38:21):
do they fit in personality wise? All right, the guy
graduated from Harvard, that's fine. This other guy graduated from Stanford.
So who do you pick? You know, you try to
pick the guy that's the person, woman or man that's
going to fit mess into your team from a personality standpoint,
because they all have ability, and that's not the final
determining factor in success, certainly in sports, team sports and

(38:43):
I think certainly in the outside world. I don't think
the business world does matching of personalities, and I don't
think they pay as much attention to that as maybe
they should sports teams, I know sports organizations do. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:56):
No, it's a great point. And you know around here
there's the Jolts with the philosophical change of what they
were trying to do offensively. Yeah, what Badger fans have
seen for thirty years to this air raid concept. But
I mean, you know every bit as much, if not
more than I do as a fan or whatever. You
just run the system that works, run what mukes, and
it wasn't working great the last few years. Even with

(39:19):
they with an excellent running back like Braylan Allen, there
wasn't enough else. And the team scoring twenty five points
a game in college football. That's not going to get
you a whole lot unless your defense is just lights
out good. But you're not going to be a true
championship level team in college football averaging twenty five points
a game, and that's where they've been hovering, maybe slightly
less now the last almost two seasons. So I applaud

(39:44):
what they've tried to do here so far. You're taking
a swing. The landscape has changed. You don't have the
Big ten West anymore. You're going up. You know, this
team has played three top five teams this season. That
just doesn't happen with Wisconsin and football, and they've swung
a mist those games. This system, whatever it is they're trying, system,
whatever the coach, it hasn't worked yet. So that's what

(40:06):
makes this next move really really important. I think for
Luke Fickle because they've changed the offensive line coach year
one year or two. This guy, aj Blosick seems to
be a perfect fit for Wisconsin now. But I just
I hope for their sake Waye that they could find
somebody who can stay here a while because there has

(40:29):
been such a lack of stability on his coaching staff.
Jack Nelson, the left tackle, it's playing for his fourth
offensive line coach in four years. You go Joe Rudolph
to Bob Bostad, to Jack Picknell junior and now aj Blosick,
And you can point to other position groups you're going through.
What's the same thing. If you're a developmental program, that's

(40:50):
a lot of banana peals you're throwing in the middle.
Still the road there to try to you know, to
try to develop there. That's a lot of obstacles in
trying to get guys to develop. So whatever direction Luke
Fickle goes with here, hopefully it's someone who can offer
stability and give these guys who are going to be
here two, three, four years a legitimate chance to develop

(41:11):
under the same voice.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
And that's almost always, I guess primary to a winning
program is that stability, and especially on the college level,
coaching stability, not just players, but coaches especially, you know,
and I look at you were just mentioning h third
offensive coordinator or a third offensive line coach, whatever it was.

(41:35):
And we're in Chicago and Caleb Williams is nine games
into his rookie year and is already on his second
offensive coordinator and he'll probably be on his third starting
next year. And you know, those things that that retards
the growth of a program, There's no doubt about that.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
Yeah, it'll be fascinating to see. And then how they
finished this season, because I try I had to take
a step back with this because we both know the
emotions of it. And then you get attached to, you know,
to certain people within the program, be they players or coaches.
But I try to look at this, as Mark Antonassio
would say about the Brewer stuff, as agnostically as possible,

(42:15):
in other words, without a great emotion.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
The feeling going.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
Into the season with Wisconsin football is that it could
have a very similar record to last year and actually
beat better given the schedule that they've played. Well, that's
about the path they're on right now. We'll see how
these final two games go. They were seven and five
of the regular season last year. They're winning their last
two games to get there. But how they've gotten to
five At five and five, which is where they were

(42:38):
through ten games last year, you know, not being able
to score in the second half, being in position where
you are seemingly in a place where you could take
control of the game and they haven't, and the emotions
of the moment. In sports, that's where the frustration is
is with the fan base. And this is a game
with Nebraska where two programs you just can't get over

(42:58):
the hump or square an. Yeah, I am still wrapping
mind around the fact that Nebraska has the longest bowldless
streak of any power for program in the country. This
is freaking Nebraska. We're talking about where the ceiling has
historically been much higher than Wisconsins, but the floor has

(43:19):
been lower. They have been to a bowl game since
twenty sixteen, so you know, that's a big thing for
matt Rule down there, and it's their senior day. I
think it's going to be a team playing with the
level of desperation. So is Wisconsin. I'm very curious what
the Badgers have left in the tank after another gut

(43:40):
punch loss, and it could have shot a kind of
game against the top ranked team the country.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah, they had a shot at the top ranked team.
It's hard to come back from that. And we know
in football, we tell you this all the time, folks.
Football has played so much with emotion and one of
the reasons why we say in football, it's not who
you play or where you play, it's when you play.
That's what that's all about. Where are these teams today,
you know, the Chicago Bears team. John Coon and I

(44:06):
were talking on the broadcast the other day about this.
By midway through the game Sunday at Soldier Field, Kon
says to me, you know, these guys aren't like anything
that we saw on tape, you know, and most of
us that do these games. And I don't know what
your process is, Matt, but I go back and look
at the last three games of an upcoming opponent last
three games. You don't want to go much farther back

(44:28):
than that, because it's really irrelevant. Where are these teams now?
Football is a game of where are you now? How
are you today? And that Chicago Bears team that played
the Packers on Sunday was different. It played at a
much higher level than the previous three weeks, and you know,
for any number of reasons. But there's so much to it.

(44:48):
And people will say, well, that boy, the Packers should
have blown them out. Love the Patriots blew them out
the week before. Yeah, but that doesn't really have much
to do with what's going to happen today or next
week or the week after that. I know it's hard,
it's a hard concept to explain to people, but the
fact is, this is not a video game. This is
not These are not stratumatic cards out there. These players

(45:10):
perform differently these teams week to week to week.

Speaker 4 (45:13):
No, I do the same thing. That's what I've just
I've taken a look at the most two recent Nebraska games.
I'll look back one more game and you know they
changed coordinators to Dana Holders in an air raid background.
Coach is now calling the plays for the Huskers. He
just worked his first game this past weekend when Nebraska
went out to USC. But Wayne, I'm curious too, because

(45:35):
you know, I'm watching and listening obviously to the Packers
on Sunday, and there's a part of me at the
end of that game thinking, are they the luckiest team
in the NFL? Or is the better description? They expect
to make the plays when they have to. If it's
Christian Watson laying out, if it's the field goals at
the gun, the block field goal, that to me be

(45:55):
on the obvious talent of a college team versus an
NFL team. The Packers have seen it, they've done it.
They've made the big plays when it's had to be made,
and Wisconsin has noted. So you could call it luck,
call it whatever. But there is a belief, with concrete proof,
with the Spring Bay Packers team that when you have

(46:16):
to make a play, they make it.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
That's an intangible matt And again I struggle as an
observer as a fan to you know, why do some
teams win and some teams listen like that. Why do
the Bears how come they can't beat the Packers because
they have the talent to do it, and they had
it done. I mean, here we are three seconds ago.
They're setting up for what should be just to you know,

(46:41):
knock it down the middle type of field goal, and
all of a sudden, the Packers get a block. And
you know, I can't explain it why some teams, some
teams players would say, oh, we know how to win.
What does that mean? What do you mean you know
how to win? You know what I mean? There's some
teams have a knack for making the right play that

(47:01):
type of thing. The Packers are the youngest team in
the NFL, so I don't know if that's set in
stone yet, but they got fortunate in Chicago and Carl
Brooks and you know, the special teams coach Rich Bisacia said, hey, listen,
this guy, Carlos Santo's kicks the ball low, especially on
longer field goals. Get your arms up, be ready for it.

(47:23):
And in the end they were. Carl Brooks got his
big right hand of the air, they knocked that kick
away and the Packers survived on a day when Caleb
Williams did everything you could expect the Bears to do
and had him in position to win that game. So
I don't know, And what does it mean for the
Packers going forward? They've got San Francisco coming up. San

(47:45):
Francisco is we talked a couple of podcasts ago, not
the team they were a year ago, but a team
that still has a lot of talent and a lot
of talent that's been the Super Bowls, been the championship runs,
that kind of thing. You know, it'll be interesting to see.
This is a game that Leaflora has kind of struggled,
Matt Leflora struggled against his old mentor Kyle Shanahan in

(48:09):
some big places. The Packers have lost playoff games to
the Niners. It'll be interesting to see the emotion that
goes into that game on both sides. And then from there,
can the Packers make a stretch run as they did
a year ago. They're a different team than they were
a year ago. I don't know if they're going to
be able to make a stretch run like that. A
year ago, there were four and six at this time.
Now there's seven and three. Everybody's expecting much bigger things,

(48:32):
And I'm not sure from this vantage point in the
league and the schedule with what it is. I mean,
they've got to go to Minnesota, they've got to go
to Detroit. Can they put together a run through those
two places? I don't know. You know, they're in a
better position than they were a year ago. Will they
make the playoffs? I don't know. If ten wins is
going to make the playoffs in the NFC, I don't know.

(48:52):
And if it comes down to tiebreakers, the Packers have
already lost three NFC games. Those are tiebreakers, so it'll
be a interesting But I think that's what That's why
we play the games. That's why we go to the games.
That's why we anticipate the games because we don't know
what's going to happen.

Speaker 4 (49:07):
Well, you're seeing thrilling games. Oh Wayne, it's working out.
You're gonna hear your people are saying they're staying tuned
in to the to the final snap of the game,
and the dagger call has had to wait some of
these games. But they're they're finding away. You know, I
just as an observer, Are they really that good? Maybe
they are. You're winning games now and then you get
hot you get as healthy as you possibly can, which

(49:29):
they have obviously not been throughout the course of this season.
But who knows. But the NFC North is it's wicked
this season. I mean, you know, Airs are trying to
figure it out, but the Lions are just killing everybody
and the Vikings are eight and two. So this is
this pretty good stuff in this division.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
Beware, I told our people from the Lions, I said,
you guys, this is your year. You're the best team.
You better win. You better hope you don't catch Patrick
Mahomes in overtime in the super Bowl. This your year,
Mike obot A. It's amazing. But you know, these windows
in the NFL, and I'm sure to a lesser degree
even in college, they open and close quickly year to year.

(50:08):
And like I said, last year with San Francisco's year
under Shanahan, to get it done, they didn't. And this
year's been a kind of a bloodbath out there from contracts,
injuries and everything else. Detroit they got it rolling, and
I know they've had some injuries and misfortune to that
type of thing, but they're the best team and it's
not really close, folks. But that doesn't mean They're going
to get it done, so we'll see how it goes

(50:29):
well out to do it for us on this edition
of the Ler of Vila Pay podcast special thanks to
Andy Katz, college basketball analyst reporter. Our guest today, Our
producer engineer is Dave McCann. Our executive producer Jeff Tyler.
For math. This is Wayne. Thank you very much for
listening to the Laere of Vie La Pay podcast.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
The Larovian La Pay podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
Podcasts with hosts Wayne Larvy and Matt Lapey, with production
engineering by Dave McCann. The Lerreovian La Pay podcast is
presented by you You Credit Union here for every.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
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Speaker 2 (51:03):
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