Wayne & Matt chat with Wes Durham of the Atlanta Falcons and ACC Network

Wayne and Matt discuss the changing college football and basketball landscape and NFL football with Wes Durham, play-by-play voice of the Atlanta Falcons and The ACC Network.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's the number one complaint we heard this year? It
was the longest college football season ever. Certainly, our company
promoted that you know better than anyone. So if I
go this route and I say, hey, we're going to
back up the season, how are people going to react
to that?

Speaker 2 (00:13):
And?

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Am am I going to stop the season? Quicker? Here's
the other implication of sixteen and why I'm worried about.
We only have a small sample size of twelve. Are
we really going to risk the revenue stream of conference
championship games with a sixteen team playoffs? I mean there's
conversation about would the conference championship game be staged? That's
an individual decision. The Big ten may feel differently than

(00:36):
the SEC, The ACC of Big twelve may feel differently.
You maybe have an SEC and Big twelve thought that
doesn't go with the Big ten and ACC. Who knows?

Speaker 3 (00:48):
This is the leravi in La Pay podcast, a production
of iHeartRadio Podcasts with host Swayn Lerevie, the voice of
the Green Bay Packers, and Matt Lape, the voice of
Wisconsin badgeris football and men basketball. The Laravila Pay podcast
is presented by YOUW Credit Union.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Here for every U.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Hi, everybody.

Speaker 4 (01:10):
I'm Wayne Larvy and I'm Matt lape on this episode
of the Laravieill Pay Podcast. Well, our guest is Westernham,
the great Voice of the South, Atlanta Falcons and ACC Network.
We're gonna discuss a lot about what's going on on
the landscape of college football and basketball with Wes, and
also a little bit on his beat the Atlanta Falcons,

(01:32):
his fall beat in the NFL. It's all coming up.
We've got some good stuff with one of our favorite guests,
Westerham of the Atlanta Falcons and the ACC Network. Stay tuned.
Valeravi Will Pay podcast is next. Got Cheddar on your mind?
Uw Credit Union can help with free, free checking and

(01:52):
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Join at UWCU dot org. Insured by NCUA Equal Opportunity Lender.
We welcome into the layer of Vilapey Podcast a great
friend of ours, Westerham, the Voice of the South as
I like to call him, Atlanta Falcons and ACC Network. Wes,

(02:15):
I got to tell you something. I did a game
at North Carolina I think it was a year ago,
and your legendary dad has a building named Amram down there.
Your dad was the longtime play by play voice, incredible
play by play voice of the North Carolina tar Heels,
and he must have been quite an example for you
to follow.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Oh my god, Wayne, Yes, it's great to be with you, guys.
My broadcasting career is complete now that I've appeared on
this podcast with YouTube Gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Preview of coming attractions in the sarcast of hour Here
we Go.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
It's exactly right. Yeah, my dad was an amazing uh.
I mean, I tell everybody it's he's my favorite announcer,
and everybody says, well, it's your dad. Yes, that's true,
and that has a lot to do with it. But
he's also the one that you know, gave me my
best advice that told me as a you know, twenty

(03:10):
year old junior in college, Hey, look, I can listen
to all the tapes you want me to listen to,
but I really think it would be in your best
interest to start sending them to other people. I think
when I was fourteen and decided I might want to
do this way, and he gave me the value of preparation.
And you know, I've got all the color coded cards
here in my hand to show you. You know, the
preparation piece still matters a lot to me. He was also,

(03:34):
even after he retired, pretty supportive when I in twenty thirteen,
abruptly left Georgia Tech after eighteen years and decided I
was going to take a dive into television at forty seven,
and he said, I think you're probably making the right decision,
And so, yeah, my dad was. And he had an
amazing career at Carolina and never spent one day as
a full time employee on the Carolina payroll in forty

(03:57):
years doing the game. She never worked for the university
in any office capacity full time, and yet his loyalty
to that brand and his loyalty to the fan base
to try and do the job for forty years was incredible.
So I'm I'm grateful to the university for finding a
place for my dad to be forever remembered in terms
of a building, and it's amazing he will have been.

(04:19):
He passed away in March of twenty eighteen, So we're
coming up on seven years and it's we're getting ready
to go to the a SEC Tournament a couple of weeks,
which was his favorite event, Wayne and Matt and he
loved that event more than the Final four any football
game because of the heritage of the Atlantic Coast Conference,
and I get an opportunity to do part of it
again for our ESPN ACC network coverage, and it's an

(04:41):
emotional event for me because of him. So that's about
the best way I can describe it. So, and he also,
like us, enjoyed the collegial fellowship that we have in
our industry. That was a big part of who he was.
And so, if anything, I've got a lot of friends
who do games in a lot of parts the country
and I value that a lot, and I think it's

(05:03):
something really important in our industry that we all stay
pretty tight, especially with as interesting as the landscape is
right now with what we're doing.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, Wayne, I don't know if you're aware of this,
but Wes is an honorary Big ten member. Honorary member
of the Big Ten Broadcasting Fraternity, which means, you know,
once a year or so he comes up to the
Great to the Great Midwest to play golf and tell
bad jokes and have maybe maybe one bourbon over the
course of an evening. So has been may or three. Yes,

(05:31):
he has been an honorary member for many years now.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Wayne, I just want to say this that on behalf
of the ever expanding Big Big Ten. What an eclectic
group of announcers the Big ten has doing radio broadcast.
Yet you have some pillars of the community, I mean,
like Lapey, a pillar of the community and as you
know in the Madison area. And then you have people
that are just larger than life. Don Fisher, who's getting
ready for i think to finish his eighty third years,

(05:58):
the voice of the Indiana Hosier, and you know, and
then you get you know, America's announcer, Gary Dolphin, of course,
and then the man who's got the voice that melts
butter at a thousand feet, Paul Keel. And I'm leaving
out some other very talented and distinguished announcers in that league.
But yeah, no, a lot of those guys are my friends,

(06:19):
including Lapey until today, and I'm grateful to be able
to go play golf with them once or twice and
we keep laughing the whole time. Now, I mean, it's
amazing you can barely get the club to the ball.
For all the stuff that gets said during the eighteen.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Holes, everything he said is true except for the word distinguished.
I'm not sure that any of us would who that
would hit that category. You mentioned the changing the changing landscape.
That's one of the reasons why you're still in the
fraternity because it's so void. We may all be in
the same league here in the next two or three years.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Who knows well, and you and I remember that about
thirteen years ago, George I was still at Georgia Tech
and we almost were all in the same league. Then,
you know, Look, I think what happened in the early
two thousands, right around twenty ten eleven, was really a
precursor to all of us, and there were some schools
that had to look in the mirror then, and there

(07:13):
are really some schools I think that have to look
in the mirror now and make some hard decisions. Now.
Look land Grand Institution's, big state schools with massive budgets.
I don't think the decision is really hard. But when
you get to the small, secular private school with a
lot of sports, I think it really is tricky, guys,
I really do. I think the business side of college

(07:35):
athletics is bigger than it's ever been. It's more important
than it's ever been, and we're coming up on so
many different You know strains of revenue and how they
want to find the dollars and captors capture those dollars.
I think it's really really a fascinating time to be
in college outlays.

Speaker 4 (07:52):
You know, it's interesting. And by the way, Westernham, the
voice of the Atlanta Falcons in acc Network on ESPN,
is our guest on the Review the Pay podcast. Guys,
you know, I was kind of dabbed this winter. I've
done a game in the Big Twelve and the SEC
and now the Big Ten coming up this week. And
I'm looking at these conferences and I'm looking at the scheduling,

(08:15):
just the scheduling part of it. Now, all of these
decisions were made with football in mind, but the residual
is you have basketball teams, both men and women. You
have gymnastics, you have track, all these different sports and
they all are traveling across the country. Look at the
Big Ten from California to New York.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
I mean wow.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
And by the way, it hasn't been the Big Ten
for I don't know how many years, Matt, but we
do not do math well in the Midwest apparently because
I think the Big Ten is it eighteen?

Speaker 1 (08:49):
Now I've lost the rack it is eighteen. Now.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, Penn State made at eleven back in like nineteen
ninety four.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
So we've been mad at math since ninety four in
the Big ten.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah, we're a little mathematically challenged here at the year
A conference.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Don't feel bad. You guys are bad at math and
we're bad at geography. I mean, it's the Atlantic Coast
Conference and we got two schools in Northern California and
another one in the Metroplex. No, now, wait to know,
let's just wait a minute. If Trump can rename the
Golf of Mexico the Golf of America, we can rename
we three can rename the Atlantic Coast Conference the All

(09:24):
Coast Conference. Right, we could do that. That would save
a lot of expense of repainting floors, you know, so
I would, Yeah, I mean sure. But at the same time, too,
there's still the heritage of what this is. And look,
we're having a basketball discussion in the ACC right now
about Carmelo Anthony's one year at Syracuse twenty odd years

(09:46):
ago and Cooper Flags presumpted one year at Duke this year, right,
and somebody said, well, you know, oh, by the way,
remember Carmelo Anthony didn't play in the ACC in two
thousand and three, and well, yeah, I remember that. But
now we have to regard Carmelo Anthony as hashtag ACC legend,
just like Aaron Rodgers and Marshtawn Lynch are now hashtag

(10:07):
ACC legends. But you know, that's the web we've weaved
here and how we got to this point. I think
there are a lot of different ways you can probably
surmise it. But at the same time, it's not our
job to worry about how we got here. It's about
how we go forward and the jobs we do and
trying to qualify each particular team and the players and coaches.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
That are part of We'll get into somewhere basketball here
in a bit. But obviously, with the football conversations going
on with the various conference commissioners, most the biggest biceps
exist in the Big ten of the SEC, and the
talk of twenty twenty five it's going to remain the same.
They're trying to maybe tweet the seating, but you need

(10:49):
unanimous votes with that, which appears unlikely. But in twenty
twenty six, the talk of the playoff going to at
least fourteen, if not sixteen, and the big ten of
the ACC or excuse me, the Big ten of the
SEC getting reportedly four automatic qualifiers Big twelve to two
ACC two save a seat for Notre Dame top group

(11:13):
of five in a general a broad brush opinion there
west of the thoughts on that, I would imagine the
ACC folks are saying, wait a minute, or what what
are the thoughts over there right now?

Speaker 1 (11:27):
I don't know. I don't know, particularly if there's an
easy way to get to it. I think what you
got now is I think what you've got now is
if you tape the ACC and look at the football
right clumpson is certainly a brand. You've got all brands
you want, Florida State, Miami, all these all these teams

(11:48):
are brand. I think you you've got teams that are
going to be a factor. I think sn U is
here to stay. I don't think sm U is going
away as long as the rat last is there, and
then they're going to be other teams. Fellow check at
Carolina certainly is a fascinating story. In Virginia, Tech's got
great history. Burtt Price kind of up against it a
little bit, you know, and you know how it works

(12:08):
in the Big ten Matt. You always see a school
that has a flare one year, right, all of a sudden,
they're eight, nine, ten in Indiana would be the best
example of the last year, I think. So for me,
the question I have is, somebody who works in the ACC,
what happens the year you have three or four teams
in the top fifteen? Okay, because the SEC and the

(12:28):
Big ten are going to have this lean on the market,
if you will, or half the field with four a piece.
What does that mean when the ACC or even the
Big twelve, which I think is a fairly entertaining league,
by the way, what happens when they had three to
four candidates in the top fifteen, top sixteen of the
of the poll? How does that work? Do all of
them get in? If you're willing to tell me that

(12:49):
all of them are going to get in, I think
everybody's okay with the minute Shenanigans start, like the Florida
State thing a couple of years ago, When the Shinnagan
start is when there's going to be a problem. And look,
the Florida State you know, Alabama thing might have been
a one off, but we learned a lot from that
one off, and I think that that's why the Cautionary

(13:12):
Tale of Selection is going to be really interesting the
first time we go bigger than twelve. Sidebar, I don't
think we've seen twelve enough to understand the positives and
the negatives of it. I got more questions about structure
of all this and the calendar leading up to it
and all these other things. But it just feels like
at times we're running pell mell into sixteen teams because

(13:34):
we've got to get there. And I think that's fine.
But I also think too, if you're going to run,
you know, without regard to sixteen pretty quick, I think
you've got to be careful of what you stumble into
after you get to sixteen.

Speaker 4 (13:48):
It all comes down to eyeballs to television screens and
is this something, guys that you've got the NFL going
at that time of year, major college going. What's the
trick here, Wes, is that you've got to if you're
the college side, you've got to avoid the NFL. Right,
You can't be concurrent with when they played.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
I think so Wayne, you and I know from pretty
good seats every week what that league looks like and
how the business of that league works. I mean last
time I checked to you went to Brazil to play
football last year. You know, I've been to England twice,
probably headed to Germany at some point. I would offer
you this. I think that college football has to look

(14:31):
at the ratings on television for the last three to
five years and measure where they fit is. Look, college
football is the second most popular sport to the NFL.
That's a pretty good place to be. The money seems
to be okay for everybody, right, But understand this Park
Avenue is a behemoth, and it's going worldwide. I think
you and I know that Wayne probably better than most.

(14:53):
It's going worldwide. There's a possibility of eighteen games coming
down the line where we only played two pre season games,
and then they play eighteen regular season games with potentially
two by weeks. And if the international rotation is set
up the way I think it is, half the league's
going to play an international game every other year, you know.
And so if that happens, then all of a sudden,

(15:16):
where does college football fit to where we don't have
happened what we had happened this year, which is two
regular season NFL games basically with better ratings than the
college Football Playoff Semi five, our opening round game, the
Texas Clemson and the Penn State S and U games
were not as highly rated as NFL games were that day.

(15:37):
And the championship. Let me remind you, the championship of
Ohio State and Notre Dame was right around twenty five
million if you take all the analytics into a digital
linear of that kind of thing. The Super Bowl was
one hundred and twenty seven million people this year with
all the different ways you can watch it. The Bills
in Chiefs was fifty one million. College football is trailing

(15:59):
the break, but it would be okay. I think if
college football just said, hey, look, let's make sure we
stay away from the NFL as best we can. And
how about a little cooperation in all this too. Look
ahead at calendars, look ahead at super bowls, be aware
that the eighteen game thing might be coming down the pipe.
To push the Super Bowl three weeks into February, and

(16:19):
let's see where this goes. But I think college football
is in a really good place. It just needs a
touch of maintenance to make sure it gets its stage,
if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, the calendar is fascinating to me too, West because
and again one year. As you mentioned, that's a small
sample size of a twelve team playoff. It's maybe a
small sample sized period. But I do think the college
football fan is used to the season pretty much being
over New Year's Day, maybe a week removed with the
champion with the old BCS and the fourteen playoff January

(16:48):
eighth or ninth. Right, this past year we have asked
fans to watch on January twentieth, twenty first, whatever. So
do you back it up?

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Dude?

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Has everybody started what we used to call week zero
third week August? You're starting games, then I to try
to get it done as close to New Year's Day
as you can.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
I think that's a really good point, and I think
it's a BALLID would look, we all know the college
football players stay on campus a majority of the summer.
I mean ninety some percent or more. College football players
are basically there intact in some ways. If you're going
to avoid lengthening the season, and what's the number one
complaint we heard this year? It was the longest college
football season ever. Certainly, our company promoted that you know

(17:27):
better than anyone. So if I go this route and
I say, hey, we're going to back up the season.
How are people going to react to that? And am
I going to stop the season quicker? Here's the other
implication of sixteen and why I'm worried about we only
have a small sample size of twelve. Are we really
going to risk the revenue stream of conference championship games

(17:47):
with a sixteen team playoffs? I mean there's conversation about
would the conference championship game be staged? That's an individual decision.
The Big ten may feel differently than the SEC, The
ACC of Big twelve may feel differently. You maybe have
an SEC and Big twelve thought that doesn't go with
the Big ten and ac ST. Who knows? What about
the Mountain West? What about other people here? If you

(18:09):
take away the conference championship game, can you end it quicker? Sure,
you start the sixteen team earlier. And here's the other
part too. There's a soft spot for me for the bulls. Right,
how do we stage the bulls? There's still thirty some
odd bowl games that go along with the games that
are being played in the playoffs. I still think we
got to find that happy medium. And I guess my

(18:30):
concern is I'm a little hesitan to say, let's just
go run into the sixteen teams, you know, year after
next and hopeful the best without a little bit more
understanding of what the front end of the schedule is
going to look like and when does that get started?

Speaker 4 (18:45):
Amid all of this, do we still see in the
near future the ground swell for conferences to add to
consolidate to what are we seeing here? Are we going
to see three conferences that basically run this thing and

(19:09):
you know everybody else is going to be on a
level two kind of mid major type thing.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
What do you see why? I says you from your perch.
That's a really good question. Well, I think a lot
of it has to do with the conferences and the
amount of money each institution gets, right, Wayne, I think
if we take our eye off that ball, we're missing
the fast pitch. I mean, we're looking at a curve
or a slider when we need to look that's the heater. Right.

(19:35):
How many dollars are we going to get in our
pocket before we play the first game? Right? And then
you know, Notre Dame this year got what twenty million
dollars as part of the CFP. Well, good for Notre Dame.
That's a lot of cash. But they knew going in
they were going to get X, and they ended up
with Z, so to speak. I believe that. I think

(19:56):
we still got to get some congruency and governance and
struck sure on what college athletics is going to be
in this country. We've got a business model out there
right now for student athletes. We don't have any kind
of way. You'll love this. I have conversations on Sunday
with some people after I come from my Saturday game. Right,
I'll walk in and one or two people who are

(20:17):
affiliated with the team or the NFL will look at
me and go up. Still operating without a salary cap
over there on Saturdays, aren't you. I mean, you know
there's a lot of truth to that, right. I think
we've got to get some governance and some structure as
to what this is going to be. Yeah, I mean,
do I think conferences landscape wise it going to change? Sure?
I think in twenty thirty and twenty thirty one you

(20:39):
could see another big round of upheaval in terms of
who's on what roster when it relates to conference membership. Absolutely,
I think we're probably five six years away from that,
and I think it has to do with television. But
these television contracts expiring, the Big ten and the SEC
and the Big twelve and in thirty sixty a SEC.
What are those leagues going to look like when they

(21:00):
sit down to write those new contracts. I think they're
going to be either more or less membership. And that
goes back to the hard decision that institutions have to
make about. You know, do they want to get involved
in this our settlement which is a minimum of twenty
and a half million, or it's a max of twenty
and a half million this year, but it could go
off as we'd move along.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Which they anticipate will be. They'll check it off in
April and then into effect this summer, so you know,
it's still it still needs to happen. You've mentioned sixteen
teams a couple of times. I've heard fourteen. Do you
think they'll walk up to sixteen or just jump from
twelve to sixteen? I'm flipper coin.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, I mean, wouldn't we like to be in the
room when that boat goes around the table and who's voting?
That's the other thing. Look, I think the commissioners, I
think the conference commissioners of these leagues and I'll throw
the Mountain the West and the PAC twelve and the
New Iteration with some others in there too. I think
those people are as close to the fire on each

(21:57):
of their institutional campuses as anybody who's to be in
that room with working knowledge, right, So those are the
people that need to make the decision. I do believe
we're going to go twelve to sixteen map. I think
we're just going to go ahead and open the valve
all the way up and let the water come pouring in,
because in all honesty, that's what the NFL does. The NFL,

(22:18):
you know, they tried to create as much much wiggle
room for playoffs and captivating television and things like that,
and I think that's where college football ultimately wants to land,
is in a big playoff system where they feel like
everybody's representative. And I hope when we get to sixteen
we're all playing the same number of conference games too.
I think that's an important aspect. There's got to be
balancing congruency to the competitive side of on the field

(22:40):
as well as what's that's an off the field.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
For sure, on Wisconsin, off fees get feed, pre checking
options and more at UW Credit Union joined at UWCU
dot org. Terms and conditions apply ensured by NCUA.

Speaker 4 (22:58):
Guys, let's talk a little bit about where the nil
money and the athletes getting paid comes into play here,
because that is within conferences. That's a big separator. Okay,
Ohio State has twenty million to spend on its football team.
Wisconsin probably doesn't have nearly that much. Northwestern and Purdue

(23:19):
have even smaller amounts to spend on their teams. I mean,
are we heading towards something where you mentioned governance a
minute ago, Wes, Are we heading towards something whereby we
get a group that can kind of control this that
we do get a salary camp I think college football

(23:40):
in basketball? Where are we heading in that regard? Well,
with the house settlement and the figure being a hard roof,
if you will, for the time being at twenty and
a half, Wayne, that's where the hard conversation on campuses occurs.
If you're going to.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Commit to the twenty and a half in the house settlement,
you kind of got to decide how you're going to
divide up the in your own athletic department. Because it's
easy to say football men's and women's basketball bangs were there, right,
But then look at every school that you can think of,
like matt Reps Wisconsin. There's something that Wisconsin that's just

(24:16):
as prideful or tradition rich. Of a sport at Wisconsin
that's important to Wisconsin. I don't know what it is.
La pay would have to tell us. North Carolina. I'll
give you a North Carolina example, field hockey. North Carolina's
dominated field hockey. They've got one of the youngest coaches
in the country who was a four time All America,
won four national titles. She won a national titlo in

(24:36):
her first year's coach. I mean, field hockey at Carolina
is this, you know, walking monster that they produce these
unbelievable young women in the sport. How important is field
hockey and nil and field hockey? I don't know that,
but every school has one of those sports. At Georgia Tech,
where I was for eighteen years, golf is an unbelievable
program of pride. So baseball at Georgia Tech, base fall

(24:59):
at the variet of other schools. I mean, you're going
to have to decide how you want to cut the pot.
And I've talked to enough athletic directors this year to
know a majority of that money is going to go
to football. The next line item is probably the basketballs.
And then after that they're having to make decisions. And
some coaches are already being told on some of these campuses, hey,

(25:20):
by the way, your nil number is going to be X,
your settlement number is going to be why whatever the case,
and any more money beyond that you have to go
out and great. And I talked to a couple of
coaches of other sports who tell me the idea of
them going out and raising money to then in turn
go to student athletes. There's some folks who still struggle

(25:42):
with the fact that in't the degree enough and in
the experience enough and things like that. So I think this,
I think this financial piece is really really going to turn.
It's going to turn, and schools are going to have
to make hard decisions. And you just hope that, like
the schools you mentioned, one of the small private schools,
I'll give you example in the ACEC Boston College is
going to handle it. Yeah, you know, I mean, what's

(26:03):
it going to look like at wake Bars. What's it
going to look like at a school with high academic
rigor like Georgia Tech. Stanford's athletic director just left last night,
resigning after thirteen years. But are at mwor Is that
because of where Stanford didn't go and where Stanford may
want to go? Who knows, But I think that's a
lot of the decision making that you're seeing on these camps.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, to your point about Wisconsin, outside of football and basketball,
it's probably volleyball here agg or women's hockey. Uh, you know,
volleyball is a very visible you know, and women's hockey
has won seven national championships with volleyball is a red
hot sport here in this campus. The interesting thing, too, Wayne,
with this is that there's the you know, the direct
payments that everybody anticipate schools will make, and then there

(26:45):
is that third party nil with an independent clearing house.
So if I'm paying you, Wayne, if you're my quarterback
and I'm I run company X y Z, say hey, Wayne,
here's five hundred thousand dollars. I want you to take
two dudes, two social media hits a month, maybe make
an appearance, and the clearinghouse might say, uh, well, uh,

(27:06):
I don't know if that's like fair market value. And
then that's a can of worms, because here come the
lawyers saying, well, fair market value is what I think
you're worth. So that there's that push pull that is
weeks away or months away from happening with all of this.
You could just you could just see it coming.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
All the way, Wayne, five hundred grand, you're getting way
underpaid in quarterback. You're gonna get under value.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, we cut off of your off of the major
injury or damaged goods.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
You need to tell me. Canub Williams took a pay
cut to join in the NFL. Yeah, quarterbacks now the
good ones.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Uh, if there are two commas in the in the deal,
you're probably undervalue. That's just the way it is.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Wayne. Let me let me finish that line. The thought
on Caleb Williams. Caleb Williams probably did not take a
pay cut, But there are some college basketball an otherwise
a normal world would have gone pro and have come
back to play college basketball because they're going to make
more money playing college basketball than they are playing anywhere
else professionally. I know, I can't agree with you more.

Speaker 4 (28:12):
The only and the thing I'm seeing that that a
lot of guys are coming back because there's money involved.
But the other thing is this wes they're coming back,
but they're changing schools and so this this constant thing
is going on, you know, which I don't know. I'm
old school, but it bothers me. I don't like it.
I liked it better when you could bring a kid

(28:35):
in as a freshman. I mean, Cali Perry was talking
the other day about John Caliperry, the coach now at Arkansas,
was talking about why would we recruit freshman unless it's
a one and done kind of guy, Because we bring
a freshman in and we might develop them for a
year or two, and then he goes somewhere else where
he can make more money. So you know, I mean,

(28:56):
it's really strange what's going on right now.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Well, I mean, and there's certain players. There is a
young man playing college basketball for his fourth school in
his fourth year. Oh yeah, this year, Primo Spear started
out a decaying went to Georgetown, played at Florida State
last year, and this year he's a mighty road runner
at Texas San Antonio. And I'd have to do the

(29:20):
math on this, but I think he's even got one left.
And if he has one left, he might play at
five and five. But look the transfer portal in NIL.
These are two tracks that we could have had some
governance too under the previous administration of the National Collegiate
Athletic Association, and we didn't get it. And that is
the crime in all of this. Yes, because we didn't

(29:43):
get any governance out of the organization that supposedly governs
college athletics. It was just let's run to get this
going because of the fear of more lawsuits. And when
I say governance and structure, that's really what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about the oversight of all these schools and
whether it's a commissioner who moves up to that level

(30:03):
you know, as far or whatever you want to call it.
If we don't have governance and structure, we're going to
run a crooked rates here. We're not going to run
a straight line anymore because we blurred the straight line
when we opened up the door from the financial end,
and the NCAA didn't want to touch it and tried
to get Congress to do something with it, and it
fell back to the States. And then the second part
was the nc double A created this hell mell you know,

(30:26):
go where you want to go student. You know, freedom
of movement by student athletes. I thought freedom of movement
was something we were going to have in basketball, and
the next thing I know, it's roster management. And so
I to me, that's the biggest concern I have, because
I do believe the trickle down and the trickle up
of transfer portal stuff is a pretty dangerous game. We've

(30:46):
been playing with kids and their academic lives and their
educational opportunities, which still somewhere along in here I think't matter.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Now that's true. I can tell you as someone who
travels with the basketball team when the semesters on and
they're doing midweek travel, there's actually somebody from academic services who.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
Is still on that flight.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
So they they it's as you know, for about a
half an hour, we've talked about the off field, off court,
and yet we're all game callers. And I think once
the once the balls in the air, the opening tip,
the opening kick, it's still the game is still the game.
And this is a fairly awkward transition here back to

(31:26):
the game itself. I mean, you work in the ACC.
The common wisdom is the league is down, which okay,
But I think Duke is pretty good. You just mentioned
Cooper Flag con K Nipple from the state of Wisconsin.
Give us your wordy perspective on that team, and I
would start with Canipple, being a Wisconsin based pot here.

(31:47):
I think a lot of people are really interested in
your thoughts on what he's been doing.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
I think he's been terrific. You know, if Cooper Flag
is Batman, conk Nipple's robin, okay, and when Canipple plays well,
Flag better. So credit to john Shire number one and
having not just Flag and Knifal, but also common Mama,
watch the seven to two kid from the Sudan who

(32:10):
has just been terrific, and they have blended that team nicely.
They are ferocious defensively, they are evolving, continuing to evolve
on offense. They're better when the Stairkese transfer Malik Brown
is available to them defensively because they can switch. They're
one of the few teams in the country that when
Malik Brown is on the floor, they can switch one
through five. I mean literally switch defensively one through five

(32:33):
all over the floor. And you just don't see that
much in the college game, as you guys know. So
I think the ACC I actually believe that Duke and
Louisville and Clemson are legitimate contenders to be second weekend
NCAA Tournament teams. And I would tell you Duke, I
think as a legitimate shot at going to San Antonio.
They're that deep and they're that good. The top five

(32:54):
as we look at it right now, Matt, I think,
is pretty solid. And if you do the dirt on
the d details of the league, you can see that,
and do Clemson, Louisville, SMU, and Wake Forest for this
part of the discussion, I mean, the one thing that
jumps off the page is how good they've those five
had been on the road going into last night. Those

(33:17):
five teams worth thirty four and seven on the road
in the ACC combined, and of those seven losses, Wake
Forest has three of them. So when you look at
the ACC going into last night, eighty six and sixty
eight was the conference record of home teams in lead play. Well,
those sixty eight losses, thirty four of those sixty eight

(33:40):
were road wins by the top five teams, So that's
fifty percent of the road inventories won by those top five.
The bottom five is not very good, and that's cal Syracuse, BC,
n C State, Miami, And I think that's where the
ACC is getting knocked around a little bit. You've got
five teams that are really toward the bottom of the
net in many ways. Now, does the league need to
get on off and better starts in November December? Absolutely,

(34:02):
And if that doesn't change, that's going to be a
bigger problem. And then the bailout for me is you
look at the coaching transitions in the last five years
and the three that have taken place this year. Jim Laharnaga,
Tony Bennett, and certainly Leonard Hamilton now announcing his retirement.
That kind of wipes the deck of all the guys. Now,
I mean, you know, Roy Kay, Jim Bayham, are growing

(34:26):
Bayham sitting next to me, for having sakes, what's he
done in like to deserve that? I think, you know,
you got to start, You got to start looking at
what's not there. And when you add it all up,
you're talking about thousands upon thousands of wins, well over
one hundred and twenty five NCAA tournament appearances, countless titles,
final fours, that kind of thing. It's a tricky road.
The eighty Steam knew ultimately they were going to get

(34:47):
to I just think he got accelerated more out of
the pandemic and with some of the landscape changes we've
been talking about.

Speaker 4 (34:54):
Youbert Davis, the head coach at North Carolina said earlier
this year, North Carolina is going to have to change
the way it does business, and so they're going to
have a general manager and they're going to be, you know,
on top of all this stuff. And you know, it
sounded to me like a lot of these college teams
are going to almost like an NFL front office type

(35:18):
of situation. Or you've got a general manager, you've got
somebody looking at talent elsewhere and bringing it in.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
That kind of thing. The head coach is not doing
all of that. What do you make of that?

Speaker 4 (35:28):
And where is North Carolina? This is a blue blood
program that you just went through a dissertation on the
ACC and didn't mention North Carolina West And that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
Well, and Carolina's had a struggle, to be honest, Wayne,
because they went through the offseason they lost Armando Baycott.
It was here the better part of a decade, it
felt like. And when they lost Armando Baycott, Carolina didn't
replace it. They had an opportunity in the portal after
you know, Chase and I think three or four big guys.
I try not to follow the portal sometimes it makes

(35:59):
my head hurt. But Carolina did not get the deal done.
And when I say get the deal done, we all
know what that means. Nowadays, it's the whole different deal.
And Carolina missed out. And they can look at teams
like Arkansas and Kentucky and Alabama where those were guys
that I think they were after in the Portland. They
didn't get them. So Carolina started off without a big

(36:21):
That was the storyline of the offseason. Carolina's not going
to have much post talent. Well, they got two terrific
freshmen in Powell and Ian Jackson who are consistent players.
I think Ian Jackson's got a chance to be a
first round pick. RJ. Davis came back as the player
of the Year and for parts of this season they've
been pretty good on defense. But they just went through
a lapse in January and early February where quite frankly,

(36:41):
they weren't very good at all on defense. And I
think it's really determined kind of what their season is.
And a lot of pressure on R. J. Davis to
hit shots and carry the team, and quite frankly, that's
hard to do when you're a guard and your guard
that's right around six feet sixty one in today's college back.
But Hubert realizes now, I think after going through this

(37:04):
kind of the shortcomings of what they've had the last
couple of years. You know, he's incredibly loyal to the
University of North Carolina in the program's history, and that
program history is critically important to him and his tenure
as coach, and I think he wants to do that.
But at the same time, too, you've got to be
willing to, you know, kind of kind of be flexible,

(37:24):
and you know, when maybe you've got a bob and
weed a little bit like a fighter, if you see
a punch coming, you've got to be able to dodge
it counter. And now Carolina's counter is going to be
really really critical to kind of where the program can
bounce back to it.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
It's really interesting, Wes to hear you tell about North
Carolina because in this league it's Indiana going.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Through Solowly, Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
This is as tradition rich a program as there is
in the conference. Well, I guess Ucla now be the
Big ten team. Might have a little something to say
about that, but pre UCLA's entrance into the league. And
yet you look at the last twenty years, or you
look at this century, who's been better Wisconsin or Indiana?
The answer is Wisconsin, but the bigger brand is Indiana.

(38:05):
And to me that makes the next decision. They're fascinating
because you're right because much like Carolina, or maybe exactly
like Carolina, Indiana embraces its past as well it should. Now,
how do you go with the float with how things
are changing? And you imagine they're going to have a
lot of nil there, which I think they did this year,
but just how they go about their business is going

(38:26):
to be one of the more fascinating things, I think
from a national perspective, not to mention regionally what ends
up unfolding down there.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
I think that yeah, And I think that's the hardest
part for a lot of people is to understand. And look,
my mom is in her eighties. She don't want to
tell you her exact age. My mom has problems, you know,
because she's watched they sc basketball about a part of
her entire life. Wayne, and she has a hard time
understanding the roster transitions. Why is somebody not staying well,

(38:56):
I believe that they're fans. We're losing a percentage of
fans abeit, I think small because they don't they can't
brand themselves with the team anymore. They don't see a
player stay two, three, four years anymore. They see him
for nine months in bank, get the door or go pro,
or whatever the case may be. And again, I understand
it's a different landscape, but this is a transition time,

(39:17):
not just for players and coaches. I think it's the
tradition transition time for fans as well. I really do.
I think it's tougher right now to be a fan
of a program because you're not quite sure exactly how
all this is working, and there's this mystery of money
involved and so on and so forth. And yeah, I
still think people want to watch, they want their team
to win, but the way that happens, the chemistry behind it,

(39:39):
I think is pretty drastic in terms of change. I
can't agree with the more or West.

Speaker 4 (39:44):
It is hard as a fan to follow it anymore,
to follow it and get committed, because you know, you
see these programs bring in a kid, freshmen they develop him,
he doesn't, you know. For example, the Wisconds of way,
the freshman comes in Frank Kaminski doesn't play much as
a freshman, plays a little more as a sophomore, and
then as a junior burst on the scene and everybody say,

(40:05):
where did this guy come from? Well, he's been in
the program the whole time, and he's now in All
America and then he's Player of the Year the following year.
That doesn't happen anymore, you know. I mean, kids aren't
patient enough to develop, you know, and there are enough
people tugging at them to say, okay, hey, listen, you
know we recruited you. Wisconsin's not playing you as much

(40:26):
because they're developing you. Well, but why don't you come
over here? You could play right away. And by the way,
we got a Hixtra half million to pay you. You
know that kind of thing. And now you've got kids
bouncing around. It is hard for a fan. Matt, I'm
going to say something totally ignorant here. John Tonges, love him,
love him? Will he be there next year?

Speaker 1 (40:45):
Well?

Speaker 2 (40:45):
No, this is his final year of college. So yeah,
this is a true don't't to have a ninth year.
But it's interesting. Yeah, it's interesting with me to me
because I think Wisconsin has to view the portal much
like it did high school recruiting. John Tanjay was very
under the radar a couple of years ago at Colorado
State fourteen fifteen points a game, was really productive. Last

(41:05):
year at Missouri, plays eight games, the teams in dumpster fire.
He's hurt, sits out the rest of the year as
a medical but is blossomed and much like a Frank Kaminski,
under the radar high school recruit, not much, not much,
junior year, good senior year, player of the year. That's
how Wisconsin has to view this. So there's a there's
probably a love hate relationship with Wisconsin fans about the

(41:27):
portal because as we talked to West, he's getting ready
to call a Louisville game. They've got a pretty good
guard down there that people are familiar with up here
in miss Chucky, Hepburn. I might have to call him
Sir Charles Hepburn the way he's playing this season. But
John Tanjay has been all American good here, So it's
kind kind of West to your point. You know, the
programs that can go with the flow and you don't

(41:47):
have to. You have to embrace it. Maybe you have
clenched teeth as you're doing it, but you have to
embrace what's going on and try to make it work
for your program as best you can.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Let me let me close the thought on this with
one stat waiting in matt in the ACC this year,
how many four year scholarship seniors do you think we
have that have not transferred playing ADC basketball? Now, we
got eighteen schools, eighteen schools four year scholarship seniors who

(42:18):
have not transferred. I maybe you think we have.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Are we guessing in the realm of one per program
on average? Or is it a little bit higher than that.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Just throw a number out there. Eighteen let's say thirteen
scholarship players eighteen schools. That's the big number. That's the max.
You know, that's not the number. I'll say twenty five, Wayne,
I'll say fifteen nine.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
I won the Naive Guy Award.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Way. By the way, Clemson has two of them, Ian
Shefflin and Chase Hutter. That's why Clemson is good. Clemson
is old. Wilson has They have four true juniors and
two true seniors. Two four year seniors on their basketball team.
Clemson is an old basketball team in terms of its

(43:09):
volatility by the standards we look at. Yeah, well, and you.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
Know the other thing, you can you keep okay, all
these kids can play five years now or whatever because
they went through the COVID thing. It's hard to keep
track of that as well. But you're right, and you know,
then here's another thing. Show me a program that doesn't
have a transfer. I mean, yeah, the big programs. All
those kids are coming from and I've got it on
my chart. I mean, they're coming from Nevada, they're coming

(43:35):
from Louisville, they're coming and they're all over the place.
And then you get to Purdue and not a single transfer.
That's an amazing thing.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Well, and see, Matt Painter is the basketball version of
Dabos Sweeney in football, Dabo didn't have transfers to Club Sin.
It's been a well document well discussed. My heavens, it
was right behind the economy and you know everything else
last year, the economy and the election, and then Dabos
Poeni had no trans and now in the off season,
you know, he's now got free transfers that I think

(44:05):
I can recall off the top he's got the defensive
end at Purdue who transferred to wide receiver from I
think the Midwest somewhere, well, maybe Southeast Missouri, the FCS school,
things of that nature. So I mean, even Dabo has
been Matt Painter doing it because why he believes in
culture and a brand, just like Dabo did. And who's
to argue with Matt Painter. He played in the National Championship.

(44:26):
I mean, he understands what that looks like, right, So
good for him. And you know that's part of this
deal that we all have to kind of get comfortable
being uncomfortable as it relates the landscape.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
Yeah, and I think in this stay too, guys, Marquette
has been really good in that regard. One of the
very select few. And I think there is the culture
and there's also cash. You know, if you've got the
resources that I mean, culture is great, cash is king,
and if you if you're well supplied in both, then
that then you can have There's only a select few
of those schools. But yeah, Painter is what he's done

(44:58):
down there has been remarkable. Shockers. Smart's doing a great
job with Marquette. But they are the exceptions to the rule.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
That's for sure, no question. Oh go ahead.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
You know.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
What Greg Guard has done at Wisconsin, coming from where
he came from the program, he came from up with.
You know, we were talking about this. I was doing
an SEC game this week. We're talking about that. Nate
Oas was mentioning the fact that here's Greg Guard, He's
never played this way and now they're playing that way,

(45:34):
up tempo, they're moving the ball, they're scoring ninety points
in a game. My god, there was a point where
Wisconsin would take three games to score ninety points total.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
And you know, not that far ago.

Speaker 4 (45:47):
You guys honored one of those teams this weekend. So
it's amazing to me. People here underestimate how great a
coach Greg Gard is. Coaching is about being adapting. You
can have your system and your beliefs and all this
other stuff, but you've got to adapt to who you have,
what you have, and especially to the way the game

(46:11):
is played today. It's different than it was five, ten
years ago, fifteen, twenty years ago especially, And you know
he's done that at Wisconsin. Matt, you've got a front
row seat for this. But Wes, this has been amazing
to see what Wisconsin has become and there are handful
of schools that are doing it way. I mean, that's
the thing. I think you're right about, the adoption piece

(46:33):
of staying you know, current and in the in the
kind of in the moment, if you will. Here's the
part that is a little tricky though. None of these
guys thought they were going to be dealing with roster management.
None of them thought they were going to be dealing
with financials, right. I mean, Greg gard is accomplished and
as good a basketball guy as there is, and you

(46:54):
can you know, there are dozens of guys who are
really really talented in that light, but they all did
not anticis. I had a college football coach in the SEC,
head guy two years ago, tell me, I love doing this,
but I'm not in this for the roster management and
all the extra stuff now that's come with it, you know.
I mean, I wanted to build a program, develop players,

(47:16):
maybe get some NFL guys, you know, draft pick wise
things like that, and contend for championships and division titles.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Now all of a sudden, it's all the other stuff.
It's not just the high school recruiting, it's the transfer portal,
it's the analytics side of it that relates to your
roster management. And then, oh, by the way, the money side.
And that's the trickiest part of coaching right now, whether
you're dealing with the short roster in basketball or the
bigger roster in college football. I tell people all the time,

(47:43):
the hardest job right now in major sports in this
country is head college football coach at a power for
power file school. I think it's the hardest job in
the country. No disrespect to FDS guys, GEP five guys,
all that, the guys in the Big Ten, the ACC,
the SEC in the Big twelve, and Marcus Freeman at
Notre Dame, they're dealing with different planets right now.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
Than the others are. We could do this for a
few more hours. But as I said a while ago,
we are game callers, and we have games tonight. I
think all of us are in a way. You've got
You've got several coming up here, so you've got you
got Louisville and VA Tech right as we as we
record this. So yeah, yeah, Well, if if people listen
to this, we were we've solved the fair amount of

(48:26):
the world's problems. So uh, maybe we'll come back and
do this again in a few months over maybe one
bourbon or three or three become even smarter.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Maybe you get Laramie to come to the Big ten
Golf Jamboree and just a frame, I'm a vailering. Just
bring all the equipment, sut it up.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Well, you know, we got our guys at north This's
a short commute, Wayne, We got our guys at Northwestern
organizing this year, so a little outside of Chicago.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
Are you're gonna tell you that? I'm just waiting for
the invite? That's all? Well, all you need to know.
In twenty four four hours, a lot of things get discussed.
We go from kirk Gowdi and Laramie wyhoming all the way.

Speaker 4 (49:05):
To the other end of the spectrum. Wow, that's all
you Di did up. Oh man, those guys are the
best to that Big ten budget. I'll tell you, Hey, Wes,
before we let you go, Kirt, I mentioned you broadcast
the Atlanta Falcons and have done so for decades. Now
talk a little bit about it. Since we're on the
eve of the NFL Scouting Combine and now we're about

(49:28):
to get into free agency everything. One of the most
interesting things was Atlanta went out and got Kirk Cousins
to be at their quarterback, and they acted Michael Pennix junior,
And by the end of last year, Michael Pennock Junior
was starting and Kirk Cousins, who signed for one hundred
and eighty million over three years, you know, was kind
of on the shelf. Where is Atlanta? Where is Kirk Cousins?

(49:51):
What do you expect What's going to happen down there?

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (49:53):
I think it's Michael Pennox's football team. In short, Kirk
Cousins may continue to play. I don't know that it'll
be in Atlanta. Whether he's cut before you know, the
Nude League year starts weighing that kind of thing we've
seen happen for in the league, or they are able
to make a trade to one of these teams that
apparently wants to be in the quarterback that Atlanta's got
to focus the off season on getting better defensively. In

(50:16):
my opinion, they got some tough decisions to make in
the defensive line. David onya modest contracts up. Brady Jarrett
I think is potentially going to be restructured. Who knows,
it just depends. I think as the combine unfolds and
free agency unfolds. Atlanta doesn't have a lot of salary
caps to your point though, because of the Cousins deal,

(50:37):
and you know, the NFC South, the one thing Tampa's
been in been able to kind of have a little
run here of winning it. But it's They've been challenged
every year, and I think Atlanta can continue to be
one of the challengers because not only do they have
a good young quarterback, they may have one of the
most compelling and dynamic running backs in the league, John Robinson.

(50:57):
So you know, John Robinson's one of those guys make
you sound better than you are. And I think that
at the end of the day, they're going to be
in the mix. But it's a tricky offseason for a ladder,
there's no question about that. And it's going to be tricky,
and free agency tricky and potential restructures and then tricky
when they get to late April and draft.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
About it, Wes, we appreciate it. I know you've got
to get to shoot around here today.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
We will do it again down the road.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
I look forward to it. Guys. Thanks a lot, all right, Wes,
have a good one. Thanks guys.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
Be well, well, Wayne, they're all gathering in Indianapolis, the
NFL combine. People watched NFL network, you can look at
forty times. You can look at this out or the other.
But there's a lot of other stuff that goes on
that maybe isn't television friendly but is really important with
the Packers and all the other teams of the league.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
Well, there are a couple of things that bring the
decision makers together, and at least from a general manager standpoint,
they're all in Indianapolis.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Okay. The other thing would be the owner meetings in
the later early spring, late winter. Those bring decision makers
together as well, but this time in Indianapolis, ahead of
free agency. You've got gms all over Indianapolis. They're all
getting together. They're having a bourbon or two or Swest

(52:19):
said three, and you know, they're all within walking distance
of the hotel, so probably four or five, you know,
because you don't have to jump in a car and
drive anywhere. But they're all there.

Speaker 4 (52:32):
And the I think the setup for free agency and
what we're going to see in free agency, and to
a lesser degree, Bitty, the draft is happening this weekend.
The precursor to what is going to occur in free agency.
And you have a lot of these guys down there.
Brian Gouda Koutz is down there. The Packers have some objectives.

(52:53):
Somebody on a one of the talk shows locally was
trying to get me to say something, you know, about
the Packers situation and getting me to call out the
Packers or whatever. And you know, the guy asked me,
he said, how close are the Packers to like the
Eagles and the Lions and the Vikings. And you know,

(53:16):
because the scores of the games they played against those
teams were fairly close for the most part. Okay, the
end score, the end result. And you know, I said,
you know, be careful about NFL scores because the final
score of an NFL game often belies the ability level
of the two.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Teams competing that day. It does.

Speaker 4 (53:35):
And you know, for example, the Packers against those three
teams who were atop the NFC all during the regular season,
they were awing six against those teams. So if you're
talking about being real close, you probably win three of
those games. Now, there's no question that Matt Lafleur and
Brian Gudokountz know exactly how far behind those other teams

(53:59):
they are. What they have to do and accomplish in
this postseason.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
Now.

Speaker 4 (54:04):
Pass rusher, yeah, they need a frontline pass rusher. They
could use a cover corner, and they certainly would like
to get a receiver, maybe a number one receiver. They
have a young group of receivers, Matt. Those guys were
among the league leaders in one major category, dubious as
it might be, and that's drop passes. Forty one of them. Now,

(54:25):
these are very young receivers. The Packers are dealing with
the most talented of whom went out late in the
season with an ACL and probably won't be back until
almost November of next year. So the Packers are probably
trying to find a wide receiver who can come in,
a veteran who can lead this group and maybe be
the number one receiver in this group for a year
or two. It remains to be seen if you can

(54:47):
acquire those guys. It's one thing to have needs and
know what your needs are and know where you're going.
Brian Goodecounts is as good as it gets when it
comes to free agency, almost never misses when he makes
a free agent decision. I have said four years, and
we've talked about this on this program. The Packers are
in a three year window here of building this team,

(55:09):
and this third year coming up, this should be their
best team in recent memory during this era once they
got came out from under Aaron Rodgers. This should be
their best team coming up. But they do have some
needs and they do need to kind of bridge that
gap between where they are and where those top teams
in the NFC are, And this is where it's done.

(55:31):
Can will the free agents be available? There's a lot
of talk Miles Garrett wants to get out of Cleveland.
Some people have said Max Crosby from the Raiders. You
get either one of those in Green Bay, and all
of a sudden, it changes everything on that defensive front.
You get a first top if you get one of

(55:52):
those pass rushers, okay, in free agency, even Josh Sweat
from Philadelphia as a free agent. You get one of
those guys via trade or free agents, it changes your defense.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
And then all of a.

Speaker 4 (56:02):
Sudden, that cornerback need, its need that doesn't go away,
but you don't need one is bad because you've got
a pass rush. Now, a four man line pass rush.
What the Eagles did to the Super Bowl, opened eyes everywhere.
They never blitzed, they rushed for and Patrick Mahomes was
under siege the entire Super Bowl. So that's what and

(56:24):
that's I know, that's what Jeff Hafley wants to do
once a four man pass rush didn't have one last year,
four man brush didn't work last year. Had to do
some creative things blitz wise and that type of thing,
and did a hell of a job with it. But
they would like to get a lead pass rusher somebody. Hey,
ten to twelve sacks a year, just one of those
guys and that changes everything. Now, wide receiver, Yeah, you know, hey,

(56:48):
I understand the writers are quoting Lafleur and good occlunts.
Their public statements are, well, you know, we've got a
bunch of receivers. We like our four receiver. No, that's great,
But what do you think those guys are gonna Do
you think those guys are gonna say, wow, no, we
need to get a number one receiver in here is
none of these guys have stepped to the next level.
Yet they're not gonna say that. What kind of message
is that going to send to their young receivers? But

(57:10):
they certainly know that they need they what Josh Jacob
said of the Super Bowl, I think, you know, privately,
maybe they're saying what he said, Okay, number one, number
one receiver, need one. Yes, need one? You know, so
I think those are the things. Are those guys going
to be available? I don't know, but I do know this.

(57:31):
They have the resources to go get somebody like that.
Another good draft, and if the injured players at the
top of their their most recent draft come to play
next year and are able to play, this will be
a very good football team next year. They were a
good team this year, There'll be a better team next
year if they can get this accomplished. But Matt Easier
said than done. Yeah, I really maybe rumored to be available,

(57:53):
but I don't know. It's gonna be hard to get
one of those guys.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Yeah, I've really leaned to what you said here for
a while now about this being a three year process,
because I think a lot of folks got ahead of
themselves the way they played the second half of the
previous year. You go down to Dallas, you slap them up,
and then it could have should have against the forty
nine ers team that was a better team, I think
we could say, but it was perhaps there for the taking.

(58:18):
So we put so much into one half of one
season that maybe, oh, okay, you can you can skip
a step or two and just make this jump, which
can happen as we all know in the NFL, but
more often than not, it dusked so with particularly with
the team as young as this. So I looked back
at last season again from an arms length saying, yeah,
they were pretty good, not great, but they're real to

(58:39):
win eleven games, but they're not quite ready for the
best of the league yet. But a good draft, as
you mentioned, some of the you know, some of the
possibilities that are out there via free agency, and it
could make it could make a world of difference. I
still think their path is from my view, is good.
It's just can never happen fast enough. And I think

(58:59):
many of us, not just fans, but I think media
too is ah. It pumped the brakes. Let's let this
thing play through a little bit, and they could set
themselves up for a really good year this fall.

Speaker 4 (59:10):
I spoke was speaking to a group about a week
and a half ago, and I asked him how many
of you were disappointed in the Packers season eleven wins,
make the playoffs. How many of you were disappointed? Almost
every hand was raised. I said, you know, I tried
to say to him the same thing you and I
have talked about. This is a three year window. It

(59:32):
started when they got rid of Rogers, and it's a
three year window, even when they signed the quarterback. Okay,
Jordan Love, who, by the way, also needs to improve,
and I think he will because he's a worker, and
he will improve his accuracy and he'll be a better
player next year than he was this year, and he
had injury issues this year. But the point is this,

(59:52):
it's a three year window. It's a three year process.
The process never changed. I'm not disappointed at all. Where
the Packers are right where I thought they'd beat, you know,
youngest team in the league two years in a row. Yeah,
if they won eleven games, probably should have could have
won twelve. I mean, if they really wanted to beat
the Bears last week of the season, they would have
done it. But you know, they rested some guys in

(01:00:13):
the second half of that game. Fine, Okay, so you
went eleven games and you run into Philadelphia unfortunately in
the playoffs and in Philadelphia was on a roll, but
expectations changed after they beat Dallas two years ago in
the playoffs. Expectations changed, Okay for everybody, including the front office,
including the football people. You know, and why not you
go for it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Sure?

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
Absolutely, But I kept looking at it and kept saying
to Larry mccarin and people, is that you know, this
is Detroit year.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
It's not our year.

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
I said, you know, the process hasn't changed here. The
expectations changed, but the process didn't change. And I think
the Packers went through some growing pains last year, absolutely,
but they'll be better for it. And I think this
coming year, if they can make the right moves and
if players on their roster improve, you know, if they

(01:01:04):
take that next step, and these are big ifs, but
if it happens, they have a chance to really contend
next year, and they do. They have a good team.
But I think their chances of contending this coming year
are much better than this past year when everybody was
expecting they were a super Bowl team.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
And yeah, yeah, let's face it. A couple of years
ago was the rare exception for the Packers where it
wasn't super Bowl or bust just because of how good
they've been for as long as they've been that fair
or unfair is that that's the expectation that they that
they work with. Always sets up for an interesting offseason,
especially so at draft coming to Green Bay in April.
So as they say the NFL, there is no offseason.

Speaker 4 (01:01:48):
No, there isn't anyway, Well that'll do it for us
this time. A special thanks to our guest Westerm, the
voice of the Atlanta Falcons and ACC Network. Our engineer
producer is Dave McCann. Our executive produce series Jeff Tyler.
For Matt, this is Wayne. Thank you very much for
listening to the Lreovie La Pey Podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
The Larovian La pay podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
Podcasts with hosts Way Larovy and Matt Lapey, with production
engineering by Dave McCann. The Lrevie La Pey podcast is
presented by UW Credit Union. Here for every you listen
to other episodes available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.