The Line Change Episode 13 - Bob Wankel

On this edition of The Line Change, Bob Wankel of Crossing Broad joins the show to talk about the Phillies sweep over the Dodgers, Aaron Nola underappreciated, deadline moves, and much more!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
It is another edition of the lineChange on Fox Sports, The Gambler,
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(00:23):
spell gambler, but just in case, there you go, referral code Gambler
when you sign up Cut. Youcan find the line change. Ready to
get your podcasts, I get mineon Apple, but you can get it
wherever. Just look up the linechange with John Jannis, especially on the
iHeartRadio app as where you can findthat as well. And I got a
great guest joining me today to talksome fills after what was a great sweep

(00:44):
and some faces back that were hurt. It's a good time to be a
Phillies fan, especially now as we'regetting into the All Star break, joining
me from XL Media, crossing broadprobably a million other titles because he's a
busy man. Bob Wankle, Bobthe Harper Schwarber thing with them coming back
from the injury was a big deal. I want to say, good thing

(01:04):
to have them back, right,Yeah. Absolutely. It looked like a
totally different team this week than theone that you saw over the weekend,
especially Saturday and Sunday. And look, I mean there was this takeaway after
the game Sunday like this team's introuble. Look, they've opened the door
for the Braves. Maybe I'll looklike an idiot I often do a month
two months from now. He didn'topen the door for anybody. They are

(01:27):
far and away the best team inthe National League East. They're far away
the best team in the National League. And if you take three of your
top four or five hitters out ofthe equation for an extended period of time,
it's gonna show up. It's gonnahurt you. You get those guys
back in the fold. This iswhat the Phillies are, and they just
throttle the Dodgers this week. Man. Yeah, And that's why, you
know, as we're coming up withthings, you know, because we're talking

(01:49):
about the Phillies contending for a WorldSeries. So we look at them compared
to the top teams, and whenyou do that. You know, you
can't see falls in every team.You know, the Yankees, it's going
to be pitching for the most part. I think for Baltimore it's going to
be bullpen. For the Phillies,you know, the lineup kind of concerns
you a little bit at times,but then you get guys healthy and Trey
Turner playing like he is and thelineup doesn't seem all that much of an
issue. I know we're gonna getthe trade deadline later on, but I

(02:13):
just this line up in general,is it good enough? You know,
because I felt like that was theone thing that kind of fell a little
bit of a step below even theDodgers, who have some really great guys
in that lineup. But that wasimpressive what they did against the Dodgers.
Yeah, I mean, can thePhillies win a World Series? I was
actually having an argument online last nightwith the guy about this. Can the
Phillies win the World Series with thelineup that they have? Yeah? I
mean, look, they lead theNational League and runs per game, scoring

(02:36):
four point nine to six runs pergame right now, that's pretty good.
They trail only the Yankees and theOrioles overall Major League baseball runs per game,
so the output is there. Mything, though, is like,
can you get by with Johann Rojasas your everyday center fielder and then your
platoon between marsh who's outstanding against theright handed pitch and can't handle left handed

(02:58):
pitching whatsoever, and then plug inyour Pache's and marorfields. Can you win
the World Series like that? Youcan? But why would you want to
find out? I guess is whereI sort of lie on this. So
to me, it's like, dothey have enough? Probably, but I
think that what they need to dogiven where they're at, how this sets
up for them. It just inthis run, even if extends out another

(03:21):
two three four years with most ofthis core, they won't have a better
opportunity than they have right now sittinghere in the middle of July. And
so to me, I feel likeyou have to drop the hammer and kind
of go for it a little bit. And that's not to say that there's
a clear obvious trade candidate. Youknow, there's a lot of different ways
you can do this, and maybeit is with more role type players,
but as is is it good enough? It might be I wouldn't want to

(03:46):
stay on it though, yes,absolutely, and I think one of the
big pieces obviously to that, andone that they haven't had previously. Like
you have Harper who's very good,obviously MVP player, very good, but
outside of that, you know you'rerelying on shore Bers good. But Schwarber
isn't a model of consistency. NickCassianis is a great, great example of
that. Even J t Romuto.What does it add to see Trey Turner

(04:09):
playing like he is? And hewas playing well before the injury. I
think it was like an eight tofifty ops, so like not the elite
level that we're sometimes used to Trey, but we're seeing him now like this
is what Trey Turner is, anelite player. How much does that add
to the Phillies knowing that now youkind of have two almost MVP candidates in
that lineup. He's been so goodand had he not missed the thirty five

(04:30):
plus games, I do think he'dbe in the MVP conversation. And that's
not I had him. He wasmy preseason prediction. I was like,
he's gonna be the MVP candidate forthe Phillies, not Harper and the injury
crush. What's amazing about it islike he is ops right now is ninety
points higher than his career average.I mean, he's been a top thirty
player for a five year run herenow. But what we're seeing out of
him is this is probably the bestversion of him overall. And what he's

(04:54):
been able to do. He steppedup in the absence of Schwarber and Harper
for a little bit. He's beenable to He's been better since he's come
back off the injured list. Tome, the Phillies have you said,
it's like another MVP candidate, Likethey they to me right now, can
just beat you in so many differentways, and they have guys that can
go off. And it's not likea situation where you say, like,
oh, well, you know,every night it's somebody different, Like the

(05:15):
Phillies do have a little bit ofthat to them, but every night it
seems like Trey Turner right now ismaking an impact or Bryce Harper is making
an impact pre injury anyway, andto have that in your lineup, to
know that you have these true differencemakers and big spots is huge. I
think people forgot last year what TreyTurner was before he signed this thing.

(05:36):
There's a reason that he got athree hundred million dollar plus contract. It's
because he's a damn good player,and now you're seeing it, and I
mean, he's been huge to me. He's the reason that the Phillies are
twenty nine games over five hundred rightnow and not twenty. This is a
good team with or without Trey Turner, but he takes him into a tirely
different class. So you say thatnumber, is it shocking to you at

(05:57):
all? Twenty nine games over fivehundred, I mean seeing him, Yeah,
because before the season maybe it wouldhave been shocking, but seeing them
play every day, it's not asurprise. But to me, that's still
that's a shocking, alarming, Ohmy god, twenty nine games above five
hundred. It's been amazing to watch. I mean, I thought coming in
that this was probably a ninety threewin team, ninety four win team,

(06:18):
So it's not like I had himin the mid eighties and here they are
on track to win around one hundred. But yeah, I mean, just
I think that the consistency of thepitching staff up until recent weeks, and
I assume we'll get to this,that's been the biggest difference. The offense
you knew at the end of theday was going to put up the numbers,
but you'd have to deal with theinconsistencies, the streakiness, the highs

(06:39):
and lows. And for the mostpart, I think the offense has done
what you've expected it to do.The pitching has been better than I anticipated
because I didn't know for sure thatwe're going to get the bounce back year
from Aaron Nola. I certainly didn'tthink that Ranger Suarez would be in the
cy Young conversation. I like RangerSuarez, but he's pitched above my expectations.
And Christopher Sands, I think there'sa big question about, hey,

(07:01):
can he replicate what he did thatsecond half of twenty three, And not
only has he done that, he'staking another step forward. And the most
impressive thing about Christopher Sanchez is whenhe has a bad start, he bounces
right back. It doesn't snowball intotwo, three, four starts of you
know, hey, what's wrong withthis guy? He answers the doubt immediately,

(07:23):
and that to me has been thebiggest difference, because I like the
bullpen coming in. I know thatin the beginning of the year everyone laughed
there was a thing going around Twitter, like Philadelphia had number one bullpen.
They have the Opening Dame meltdown.Everyone goes crazy there, like yeah,
so much for that. I'm like, I like this bullpen. I think
it's really deep and they can hityou a lot of different ways. The
starting pitching was the question for me, and through ninety plus games here it's

(07:46):
been a strength, not a questionmark. Yeah, and I'll start with
starting pitching because there was a bullpenpitcher specifically, you guys talk to that.
I want to get into a littlebit. But Aaron Nola is is
he kind of being underappreciated this yearbecause of there's so many factors in that,
including Rangersars and Christopher Sanchez are havingridiculous years. But you're looking at
Aaronola right now. What a threepoint three eighty r he ranks near the

(08:09):
top ten and whip he's I thinknear the top ten in strikeouts as well.
Everything is is great. Aaronola's havinga great season. And by the
way, July and August there wastwo best months career wise. What kind
of season are is this shaping upto be for Aeronola? It could in
the end be his best season withthe Phillies. I mean, what he
did last night was impressive. Youlook at it, you said, a

(08:31):
nice easy win. Phillies were strugglingin the middle innings there, like he
had to lock that down. Hepitched out of some jams. How many
times did you see it happened withhim last year where things would just go
against him, like he'd be cruising, then he hit that bump and he
couldn't rein it in, he couldn'tget through it. And his ability to
bear down has just been It's beennight and day from last season to this

(08:52):
season. And I thought he wonthat game for them last night. It
was a big spot right like especiallytoo when you look at what they had
this weekend, I know the A'sare coming in. Everybody kind of rolls
their eyes as the team stinks they'regonna sweep them. The Phillies have a
ton of uncertainty with the pitching lineupthis weekend. I mean, Ranger Suarez,
you hope bounces back here. It'sbeen a little bit of a rough
go for him lately. Tyler Phillipson Saturday, I mean, he looked

(09:15):
impressive against the Braves, but thegame was basically over at that point when
he was in last Sunday and thenyou don't know how they're going to approach
Sunday yet, So Aaron Nola toget that win for them, give them
a little bit of lent last night, really, you know, in what
I thought was sort of like aswing game for this whole homestand you go
in, maybe you win two outof three this weekend, five and one.
You feel really good about that.But to your point, I mean,

(09:37):
I think he's been. He's beenwhat they had hoped he would be
when they signed him too that deal. This winner. Absolutely he has been.
And again it's just a couple offreak years from Suarez and Sanchez that
are making people think, oh,well, Nola's, you know, kind
of the back end of the startingrotation. No, that guy's still the
second best pitcher in the Phillies.He's gonna be the most consistent pitcher I
think this season. And as youjust mentioned, we're already kind of seeing

(09:58):
some things Suarez now, at leastfrom my perspective, it doesn't seem like
he's getting hit all too hard.The Braves game, he got hit pretty
hard, But for the some ofthe other starts that he's had and he
struggled a little bit. It's justusually what happens with him. It's weak
contact, but it's at the rightspots, or defense isn't helping him.
It's just a lot of stuff that'shappened throughout his career because he's primarily a

(10:20):
groundball pitcher. Is there any causefor concern that, you know, there
was always going to be a regression, But I think now as there looking
towards the World Series, you know, is what we're seeing from Suarez and
Sanchez reliable or is there going tobe so much aggression on the way that
they're going to have to really accountfor that, especially when they start looking
towards playoffs and looking towards building arotation for the playoffs. Yeah. On

(10:41):
his last three starts, he's allowedthirteen earned runs, and it actually would
have been worse. He had toearned runs shaved off his start against the
Pigers, so you're talking about fifteenruns now. Over his last three starts,
he hasn't pitched past the sixth inningin any of them. Is he
going to regress? Probably? LikeI don't think that Ranger Suarez is a
good bet to win the nl CyYoung Award at this point, I just

(11:03):
would you say Nola's a better bet. I've I've been hammering that home that
Nola's the better bet. Nobody believesI would. I would say if I
had to project out the rest ofthis season, certainly Suarez is a little
bit of a head start in justterms of overall numbers for sure from here
on out. Yeah, like Iwould take Nola over Suarez. That being
said, is the regression going tobe so substantial that you don't trust him

(11:24):
in the role that he was meantto be all along, which is a
number three starter. No, Idon't think that the regression is going to
be such that you now have toworry about him where like, can he
be big for us in a playoffspot or is he going to slide in
the way that we need him to. I think it would be unfair.
You know, if you make thirtythirty two starts in the course of a
season, go and look at eventhe best pitchers, they're going to hit

(11:46):
two three game runs where things aren'tperfect, things don't look great, you're
off, you have those blow upsoccasionally. The thing for me is like
can he get around that now?Like a lot of this was just look
at these incredible runs. He wouldgo on four or five, it's in
a row, just phenomenal, andthen you know, you struggle, and
now can he do exactly what Ijust said about Christopher Sanchez, which is

(12:07):
okay, that's enough, put astop to it and sort of rebound.
I expect him to. I expecthim to tonight, and I think he
will. But yeah, like whenI look at this rotation, to me,
it's still Wheeler, It's still Nola, Suarez, Sanchez, and I
think you feel good about that.Yeah, definitely would. I think Suarez
and Sanchez especially still feel confident andjust the kind of pictures they are too.

(12:31):
Because they're ground ball pitchers. Ilove that in the World Series.
I love when they go after guys. I think that's what makes Rangers who
are such a great great playoff pitcher, because he attacks and that's all he
does. So there has to besome concern about just the workload overall.
He's throwing more innings at this pointof the season he ever has before,
and the Phillies are very cognizant ofthat. I think, in an ideal
world, if everything had shaped upthe way that they had wanted, I

(12:54):
would have maybe considered skipping Ranger Suarezthis weekend kind of give him the extended
reps. But now, well,with what's going on with Zach Wheeler,
the uncertainty that you already have inthe additional spot as it is with Phillips,
like you just can't do it.And I don't think that they would
have either way, but to me, it would have been worth consideration to
maybe give him a little bit ofan extended run in a reset here.

(13:16):
That being said, I do wonder, like we look at the trade deadline,
what will they do? And wekeep talking about the outfield, and
you have to it all starts there, but you don't quite know what you're
getting out of Taiwan Walker when hereturns Spencer Turnbull at this point, what
do you get him back maybe midAugust? What does that look like when
he come? How many innings ishe going to have him? You just

(13:37):
don't really know, and so youstart to wonder with some of the uncertainty.
Now they have options, but doyou really feel great about any of
them? And then do you maybewant to go to a six man rotation
again like you did last season fora part of it to try to keep
these guys a little bit more freshas you go down the wire here.
You know, they hopefully if thingsgo well and the schedule does pick up

(13:58):
post All Star Break. It's atough schedule. They're in the middle of
it right now, this weekend sortof being the reprieve. But you would
hope or expect at this point thatthey will have a seven, eight,
nine, ten game lead going intothe middle of August, the end of
August. And at that point,do you need to keep your foot on
the gas or can you afford tomaybe give these guys a little extra rest

(14:20):
and keep the workloads down. Ithink that that's something that they need to
think about. So if there isa and I'm not going to say Michael
Lorenzen again, even though he's ona one year deal for four million dollars
and financially it would fit. Butthat's what that's what you'd be looking at.
Yeah, if you find that typeof guy to maybe slot in and
just give you a little bit ofextra confidence that you'd be able to do
that if you want to, Yeah, because that's something that we're looking at.
Yeah, absolutely, And it's somethingthat's not going to cost a lot.

(14:43):
And that's the thing. You know, all in, all into me
doesn't mean all in a one player. I think everybody gets the wrong idea
when it means all in. Uh, it's not all in on getting like
Luis Robert. I think all inis making sure you spend enough resources to
get like you're saying, a backend starting pitcher. I really think they
could use some rot depth, maybean extra bullpen arm. You know,
an outfielder doesn't have to be LouiseRobert. There's a guy in Oakland,

(15:05):
Brett Rooker that's going really good.You know, I'm he's gonna cost a
good bit, but it's still notgonna cost as much as Louis Robert Jr.
So it's going all in means howdo you allocate all those resources you
have? And does that seem likethe approach you think the Phillies are gonna
take or is this gonna be anall in like maybe go after a Louise
Robert Junior or some of the otherlike big names I've seen them link to.
Well, I know that Robert isthe guy that everybody talks about.

(15:28):
I guess I would remain surprised ifthey If they do that. You know,
everyone keeps talking about Cody Bellinger.There's financial considerations to that. I
mean, he signed a three yeardeal which if he if he chases the
options which he controls, you're lookingat ninety million dollars. Like the Phillies
want to be responsible for that intwenty five and twenty six. I doubt
it. So, like I understandthe fit. He's actually been better against
left handed pitching the right handed pitchingthe season, so you wouldn't have to

(15:52):
really worry about that. You know, people are like, oh, another
left, here we go. ButI don't think that that's a fit.
And I know he's on the ILnow as well, which might also create
some complications there. Jazz Chisholm,I don't think is a guy that profiles
here. I don't. I've talkedto a couple of people. You've heard
it out there. There's some characterI don't even want to say character concerns
that may not be fair, butI think there are concerns about his fit

(16:15):
in this clubhouse and the chemistry dynamic. Yeah, and I think it's even
on the field. It's style ofplay. Yeah, I don't know particularly
fits what the Phillies do. Iwould feel like, at least in that
kind of role, because you're lookingfor consistency, and I don't think Jazz
Chisholm is that I would agree withthat. So, like, is there
a guy that you just circle andsay, this makes so much sense.
Like if you go back to whenthe Phillies were in their runs before,

(16:37):
there would always be a name thatyou'd say, like, they should go
out and get this guy. Itjust makes so much sense for them.
I don't really know. I mean, you could maybe make the argument that
Robert is that guy, but Idon't necessarily know if there's a player that
you absolutely circle and say that isthe obvious move, that is the difference
maker that you have to go get. So do you diversify a little bit?
You might, And I think it'srealistic to say, like maybe they

(16:59):
go and add a back of therotation guy. Maybe they do bring another
bullpen arm as you suggested. Asgood as as bullpen is. I do
think there's a little bit of concern, right, like look at Jose Alvarado
recently. Yeah, I still havetrust in him, but a lot of
people don't. And I can't saythat I don't understand it. You know,
he's been a little bit more hitablelately, especially right now he's in

(17:22):
one of these runs where you kindof hold your breath when you see him
in a game. You have tofeel good about Strom and Hoffman, But
could you go all in and addanother guy that you feel good about in
the seventh, eighth, ninth,mix and match? Yeah, hell yeah,
you could definitely do that. Sobut that being said, you better
find a way to add another batin the outfield that can handle left handed

(17:45):
pitching. Like you just have todo it. And that's what I keep
coming back to. If you wantto tell me that Johann Rojas can play
center field for a World Series winner, fine, but you just you cannot
rely on what they have. Yougot to be really sure about though,
if you're going to convince me so, yes, you better be very sure
about what you have going on inleft field, because, by the way,

(18:06):
like Nick Castianus has done a nicejob sort of digging himself out of
the grave here, but you can'ttell me that you feel great about his
consistency or what he's going to doon week to week. You know,
some weeks you look at me gullright, he was eight for fifteen,
he had two homers. I feelgood about this, and then he has
a four game stretch where he's onefor fifteen with seven strikeouts, and you

(18:27):
go, so, given the uncertaintyon the corners, that's why I keep
coming back to center field, We'llsay, so, I do want to
ask him about one specific picture inthe bullpen, and you mentioned his name,
and for context, I am thirtyyears old. Now I'm old.
I've been out of college for awhile. By the way, I went
to college with Jeff Hoffmann. Iwas there at the same time he was
there at East Carolina University, wentto his games. So I have this

(18:49):
perspective. I've watched this guy whowas top prospect, what's his name,
theo Epstein I think was in Itwas at Dowdy Fit not Dowdy Fickland kluck
Leclair Stadium, watching him pitch.He had a sixteen strikeout game, all
these things, and then the TommyJohn surgery happened late in his career,
and I felt like never recover fromthat. Even as he got drafted in
the major leagues. It was beinga major league player and also now recovering

(19:11):
from this major injury. So hisjourney. I loved him and I love
the stuff, and he was agreat dude and his stuff is great.
It never worked and now we're hereten years later, remove from that Tommy
John surgery and getting drafted, andhe's an all star. From your perspective,
what is it like his story andfrom what you've heard of his story,
and I know you talked with himas well to see how he got

(19:33):
to where he got to it.Yeah, it's so interesting Like as a
you know, media guy or asa fan, you see these players and
they show up and you kind offorget that there's a journey and a path
to get to where they're at.And you see him on your screen and
you go, I like this guyor I don't like this guy. But
then you realize, like how hardit is to reach that point what some

(19:55):
of these guys deal with in theadversity, and he had plenty of it.
You know, he talked about goingto Colorade and he basically had said
a lot of my struggles in Coloradowere due to the fact that there was
so much emphasis on how do wecombat the elements? How do we pitch
in these conditions? And it wasn'tabout maximizing yourself. It was it was

(20:17):
always worrying about the altitude. Itwas always worrying about what was going to
happen, how would my sping goin this park. And it wasn't doing
what you were comfortable with. Itwasn't training to make yourself better. And
I think he obviously had some successwith Cincinnati. There were some flashes of
it. He got hurt again,but I mean he was on the brink
of going to play in Japan.I mean he was. He considered before

(20:41):
the twenty three season saying like,Okay, the money's good over there,
maybe I go over there for alittle bit and we'll just see what happens.
And you know, he bounces inand out. He had a couple
other opportunities in the spring, Philly'sgive him a chance. He almost I
mean, it almost doesn't materialize here. We almost don't see him with the
Phillies. But it works out.He comes up, he hits the ground

(21:02):
running, and now he's one ofthe best relievers in baseball. But you
just think about what a guy goesthrough. He's battled injury, he's probably
had some self doubt. Some ofthe results weren't there, but what you
see now when he takes the moundas a guy that is ultra confident and
he just doesn't he has no fearof guys. I mean they they And
I don't know what rating this podcastis, so I'll be careful here.

(21:25):
But the fa h was Stitch onthe glove. You may have seen that
story's changed and it's just about youknow, not fearing will say any hitter,
and that's the mentality. It's reallylike an attack mode with him.
He's he was so good last yearand pitching out of tight spots. He

(21:45):
was good at stranding inherited runners.And there was that question again with him,
can he carry this over? Canhe build on this? And he
has the last fifteen appearances, hehas a point seventy five whip. He's
just been he's been awesome, man, and he's been a huge difference maker.
I mean, you might hold yourbreath a little bit with Josey Alvarado.
Matt Strom hit some bumps here lately. Still think he's very good.

(22:07):
Obviously, when Jeff Hoffman's in thegame, there's just a sense of calmness,
like this guy's gonna get it done. And I think that's the biggest
compliment that you can pay to arelief pitcher, just being like, all
right, we got we got tohim, we got the Hoffman were good
and he's cash in on that.Yeah, and doing that in any situation.
And a great thing you you saidthere is maximizing talent. Hoffman had

(22:30):
the talent he had. He wasa ninth overall pick I think the Major
League Baseball Draft, you know,high top prospect despite being hurt. I
mean there was there was a Legitwas about him being number one overall and
it was Toronto that selected him.They had two pits in the first I
remember that year because the two thetwo guys, the two pitches were both
in the Carolinas. It was CarlosRodin and Jeff Hoffman, and they were

(22:52):
argument back and forth which one wasbetter, and Toronto was like, we
know he's hurt, but oh well, we're taking him anyway. We like
him that much, right, Andso this stuff, this stuff has always
been there. It's been great.But what makes it more impressive on the
Philly side of things, and whatwe see from great teams is maximizing talent.
What a difference that has made.But why has that happen, Like,
have the Phillies all of a suddenbecome to me that team like the

(23:15):
Brazier or the Houston Astros where theHouston Asher is bringing a guy like Charlie
Morton. I just saw this storycome up recently. They bring in Charlie
Morton. Charlie Morton had some goodstuff, not having great years, and
then all of a sudden turns intothis amazing picture with Houston. Even nine
years after the fact, nine yearsafter the fact, Jeff Offfman gets drafted.
Now the Phillies have this guy andmaximize his talents. How have they

(23:37):
been able to do that? AndI feel like they've done that with a
few other guys as well, Buthow do you think they've been able to
kind of foster that environment? Yeah, we talk about like clubhouse culture,
right, and we all just thinkit's like they go in and they give
each other high fives and they alllove each other. But that exists to
a degree. But there's more toit than that. One of the things
that the Phillies have gotten great at, And first of all, it starts
with the front office and identifying talent. Identifying guys can have their talents be

(24:02):
realized, right, That's part ofit. But what the Phillies do,
I think is that they're very awareof workload. They're very aware of taking
care of their players from a physicalstandpoint, trying to keep them as healthy
as possible, implementing training techniques thatare unique to each individual. It's not
just this is how we do it, it's what does this guy need,

(24:22):
what's going to make him better?What is our plan for it? And
I think that they pay a lotof attention to finer details from just a
health and maintenance standpoint. I thinkthat's part of it. But when it
comes to the pitching specifically, Ithink that they have, for my money,
arguably the best pitching coach in MajorLeague Baseball right now in Caleb Totham.

(24:44):
I think the guy's a borderline genius. And trust me, Look,
if anybody's listened to me over timeabout the Phillies, I am not always
complimentary, Especially between twenty eighteen andtwenty twenty two, I had a lot
to be a compliment mean things tosay. I really say that knowing that

(25:04):
it sounds a little bit exaggerated,but I think he's that good. He's
incredibly smart. He really dives intoand I think the thing that all of
these guys would tell you is thathe is able to look at all of
the advanced metrics, all of thedata, all of the science behind pitching,

(25:25):
and take it and know how toactually deploy it to these guys.
Like on an individual basis, whatdoes Zach Wheeler really care about? What
science can I learn and master?And how can I best convey that to
Zach Wheeler? What's he going totake from it? And certain guys want
certain information, certain guys don't.How do you package it to each individual?

(25:45):
So not only do you have aguy that's really smart and helps instill
confidence and develop game plans, butI think he's also an outstanding communicator in
terms of how do I get thismessage across to my guys? And it
extends beyond him. I mean thereare guys down in the minor league system
that are very much in lockstep withhim. It's not just here I am
up at the major league level dealingwith the guys that I have to deal

(26:07):
with. It's also from a developmentalstandpoint, especially Triple A, when they
have guys coming, there's a lotof communication that goes on at both levels.
He knows what he's getting when thoseguys show up because he's been part
of that developmental developmental process, especiallyin the highest levels of the major leagues.
So it's not like, let melearn about this guy on the fly.
It's I was integral in the developmentof this guy. And I think

(26:27):
you see that, especially with ChristopherSanchez. You know, Yeah, the
Phillies and I think they really wereI think adamant, especially at the beginning
of twenty three when he was inLehigh. There was a lot of coordination
there, and I mean he camein and I don't think that they were
terribly surprised internally about what Christopher Sanchezhad done as soon as he came up.
Yeah, it doesn't seem like theywere surprised because they gave him a

(26:49):
contract pretty quickly after that, youknow, obviously a year later, but
it doesn't happen too often where aguy comes up and you know, even
we were kind of thrown off alittle bit by it, going, wow,
that's a really quick extension for somebody. But yeah, I think that
showed that they've been confident that guyfor quite a while. Last couple of
questions here, I guess this onemight be quick. Do we care about

(27:10):
backup catchers? Do we care?Well? What a problem to have.
Right before I asked specifically about thebackup catcher question, I need to know
how much should we actually care aboutthis? I would say you should not
care a whole look even with it, and my caveat usually is even with
a catcher who you're starting catcher whojust had a knee procedure, any worry
because that's the only thing would thatwould be not specifically the backup catcher.

(27:33):
Do we worry about the starting catcherwho just had a knee procedure? Seems
like everything should be fine, butwhat's the worry level? I guess there?
Can I just say something real quickabout about Garrett Stubbs. There's this
idea that he's basically a mascot thatgets to wear a jersey and play once
a week, and I don't knowthat right. He's like the little leaguer

(27:55):
that hangs around him and he's like, yeah, there's nice this guy.
Wait, people have to sort ofreal I know the numbers. I see
the numbers. I'm not gonna sithere and try to tell you that Garrett
Stubs is a major league starting catcher, or that you know, he's one
of the fourteen best catchers in baseball. There's not many that are starting caliber.
There's that's yeah, that's not theconversation that I'm trying to have here.
But I think that, like Idon't know how else to say this,

(28:17):
Like I think that there needs tobe like a little bit of respect
put on this guy's name. Likepeople act like he just came out of
nowhere. He went to USC,he was given an award as the best
catcher in the country when he wasa junior at USC, which was like
eight it's packed twelve school guys,or was a back twelve school, Like
this isn't some guy that just showedup, Like people act like he's Vince

(28:40):
Papali or something like that. Youknow, come on, that's a better
one. That's a better analogy.That's a great way. Like he just
showed up and was like I don'twant to play and I have good vibes.
Check out my Spotify playlist. Likethere's more to him than that,
you know. That being said,if I had to, I J.
T rol Muto were to miss anextended period of time, would I say
that Raphael Marshawn demands the the shareof playing time, the majority share.

(29:02):
Yeah, I think it's fair tosay that. But where this organization's at
right now, and as important thatGarrett Stubbs is in that clubhouse and like
he can hold it down in spotstoo, I just don't think you move
off of him this year. Thatis not a move I'd be willing to
tinker with. I'm a big believerin in tangibles and chemistry. I am.
There's a line though, like,if so you can significantly upgrade your

(29:26):
talent, then you have to thinkabout it. I just don't know that
the upgrade there would be worth messingwith what you might lose, not this
year, not with this team movingahead beyond twenty twenty four. Yeah,
like, look, do you havesomething to think about? You might,
but I think right now, youknow you have to go real mutos Stubbs
when he's ready to go. Yeah, that was that was my whole thought

(29:49):
process of it. It's like,that's not a fix you can fix now.
If you really want to fix backupcatcher, do it next offseason.
Yeah. I don't think, right, Marshaan's not that much of a significant
upgrade we don't even know how muchof an upgrade he really is. You
know, it's just not worth itto really and Marshan has been really good.
He's filled in very nicely. He'sbeen a big part of why this
team has kind of been able tokeep it going. He's had some key

(30:10):
hits and big spots. Not takinganything away from him, but I will
say, you see guys that tendto get a little bit over exposed in
time. And I'm not saying thathe would or he will, but you
know, Mundo Sosa comes up.We've done this with him the last two
years, where Munososa is a niceplayer, he's very valuable player. And
could you get by starting a MundoSosa for one hundred fifty games a year.

(30:30):
Probably, But in twenty twenty threehe came out guns blazing, got
real hot. Everyone's like, playand play him, and then he trailed
off. This year's same thing.He was unbelievable over time. See guys
trying to break off the sliders lowand away, you would expand trying to
do too much, trying to keepit going. It's hard to be an
everyday player in a major league.Sometimes you just have to say thanks for

(30:52):
the contribution. We'll find a rolefor you. It doesn't mean the guy
has to all of a sudden becomethe guy. And I think that there
might be a little bit of thathere. Yeah, I think there is
a little bit of that because itwas happening with a Muno Sosa where it
was suggested. I think a lotthat maybe he should say it's shortstop and
Trey Turner shouldn't play shortstop. AndI think we're doing that with Marshaan getting
a bit ahead of ourselves. Ofthese guys aren't going to be doing what

(31:15):
they're doing now. This is kindof not an outlier. But as you
just said, thank you for thecontributions, and we'll continue to find ways
to get you know, good production. All right, last, last,
last question, and this will bea quick one. Why is Alec Bohm
in the home run Derby? Why? I have no idea. It's a
terrible fit. Yeah. I know, there's like jokes to be made about

(31:36):
being like the kid out in leftcenter field and he's gonna get pelted out
there, you know, with allthe I just he's a line drive hitter.
It doesn't make sense. Would yoube surprised I'll ask you a question,
would you be surprised if you performed, Well, I'd be a little
surprised, only because he will notbe He will not be a betting recommendation
on Monday for people know, well, you're not going to tell the people

(31:57):
out and grab boom. There wasa part of me because it's a home
run derby, and from what Ican tell by this field, it's not
like anything crazy. I mean,yeah, I always it's something like the
home run derby. I'll take alook at the guy with the highest odds,
because why not. Uh it washonestly, the one I looked at
though, really was Jose Ramirez becauseI know he's got some pop and I
just wonder what side of the platehe's gonna use. But yeah, that's

(32:19):
I don't know. I guess yesto it, though, right, You're
like, I'm before it puts meon a national stage. I have a
contract coming up eventually, like givea little bit more notoriety behind my name,
my brand. It's a no brainerfor him, and it's an awesome
decision for him. But you're I'msurprised they asked him talking about a guy
that's on pace to hit nineteen homeruns this season, So it's tough.

(32:40):
That's a tough one. I mean, I can't imagine because usually I remember
back in the day, they wouldfeel like how many home runs they have
this season? Like the Bobby A. Bray you home run Derbies and Ryan
Howard home run Derbies, and yousee the home run totals. These guys
are hitting like twenty home runs alreadyby the All Star break, and they're
going nuts. And then Alec Bohm, you're gonna see one after that?
Not even it's like, okay,maybe, well he's a good hitter.

(33:01):
He's on pace to hit seventy sixextra base hits this season. It's just
going to be doubles. So Idon't it's not an extra bass hit derby
though, Bob, come on,it's a weird fit, man, it
really is. But what the hell, why not? I'll I'll check it
out. You know, i'd watchit anyway, but I'm very interested to
see how you performs. So yeah, are you? Are you an All
Star game break watcher? I am, and it's I'm thirty eight, and

(33:27):
I guess I don't know. Ijust think back to the nineties and you
get to see Ripken and Griffy andlike I just I fell in love with
it then, and I I obviously, like a lot of people don't love
the way it evolved, and itdoesn't feel special now. And I don't
think it has anything to do within ear league play either, honestly,
But I still changed the formula alot. Yeah, and I think I'll
still watch it, and I'll stillhave some nostalgia in watching it, for

(33:50):
sure. It's just that I lovewatching humans just do things that most humans
can't, and watching somebody tank offour hundred and fifty foot home run is
still always going to be a marvelto me, no matter. It's the
only All Star game worth watching.It is it is, it's and it's
one of the few All Star competitionsI don't like anything else in Major League
Baseball NBA. That Dunk Contest isn'teven good anymore. Like, and those

(34:14):
guys are doing great things, butlike we've seen them do it a million
times. I don't know. There'sjust something about still hitting a bunch of
home runs that is just amazing tome, absolutely still a good event.
And then you throw a little legalizedsports betting into the mix, and yeah,
you can't lose, right, Yeah, I absolutely love that part of
it. Speaking of Bob, thankyou for joining me as always love the

(34:35):
work that you do. Let thepeople know where they can find your work
and what you do. Yeah,you can find me on I guess X.
Now are we calling an X oryou still a Twitter? Guys?
I still call it Twitter? Butall right, so Twitter. Then Bob
underscore Wankle, w A and kE L. And then you can check
me out on Crossing Broad. Ihave not appeared there with a ton of
frequency lately, but that's probably lackingoff getting pulled in a few different directions.

(34:58):
But that will ramp up here forme. Anthony, Sam Flippl and
Ile kind of a tag team thatgoing down the stretch into the playoffs.
Yeah, I can wait for allthat. We're getting into a fun part
of the Philly season July already.Games matter, That Dodger series mattered,
That sweep was big for the Phillies, but much bigger things, much bigger
games to come, and they canfollow you for all of that, so
make sure to follow Bob. Moreof the line change coming up next.

(35:21):
Thanks again to Bob Wankle of CrossingBroad for joining us here on the line
change a lot of good things tosay. I do love that point about
Garrett Stubbs because I didn't feel likegetting in at all on the backup catcher
conversation because I don't think it's worthtalking about a backup catcher all that often.
But yeah, it's made it seemthat Garrett Stubbs is just there as

(35:44):
just as the Vibes guy. Thatthis guy is not a good baseball player.
He's not great, he might noteven be that good. He's a
major league player though, like this, this guy is on a major league
roster for a reason. He's movedup through the minor league system. He
had performed well at times in themajor leagues. That guy can play a
little bit of ball. Now,if J. T Romuto is injured for

(36:08):
an even longer period of time thanwe think, maybe you end up looking
But even then, because I panickeda little bit up front, panicked as
soon as J. T Romuto,I know that the knee injury, they
weren't saying it was too bad,but they were saying procedure, surgery,
and he's gonna have surgery and he'llbe back at this time. But to
me, that all screened. Hey, that's a catcher with a knee injury

(36:30):
in the middle of the season who'shaving surgery. Maybe that's something to worry
about, But it seems like aswe get and progress through each week of
his injury, it's really not thatmajor. It's an injury that he should
be fully recovered from and really notbe hindered by almost whatsoever throughout the season.
So thanks again to Bob for comingon and to me that series sweep

(36:52):
against the Dodgers. You know,I think you don't want to make too
big of a deal of games whenstill you have games in August coming up
in September, October that are alot more important than games in July.
But as the regular season goes along, there are times where the season slips

(37:13):
away from you a little bit.You know, you let that team,
let teams back into a divisional race, You start to lose some steam that
you had. And it's always goodand that's why the best teams do it,
and the best teams always going toplay their players when healthy, not
hold anybody back just to be safe. Nobody's being safe. The Atlanta Brazer
are never safe. They were neversafe even though they were crushing the Phillies

(37:34):
in the division race the last coupleof years, they never played it that
way. The Astros never played itsafe. The Dodgers are never going to
play it safe. The best teamsin Major League Baseball don't ever play it
safe. They're at the top fora reason, and they continue to be
at the top, and those teamsfor many years at the top because they

(37:55):
don't play it safe. They playtheir guys when they're healthy, They keep
the foot on the gas, andthey end up after a bad series like
the Phillies had against the Braves,ending up looking phenomenal on the On the
flip side of that against what isa better team in Major League Baseball,
on the Dodgers, that's impressive.That continues your momentum through a season.

(38:15):
That's what makes a good baseball team. And so the Phillies were right.
I don't know if there was reallythat much contention. It felt like internally
for the Phillies and how they weretalking that they were ever gonna keep them
out for too long. If theywere both minor injuries, you're gonna keep
them out, of course, atleast for the ten days for the il,

(38:35):
but That's about it. Those guyswere going to play, They played,
and it was the big difference why. It was the reason why,
especially Kyle Schwarber, the reason whythey end up winning in Game three of
the series and end up beating theDodgers overall. Yeah. Another thing for
me though, I just Aaron Nola. He's going underappreciated. Take a look

(38:57):
at the numbers and win loss doesn'tmean too much. But he's second I
think in wins only behind Chris Saale. His strikeouts are near top ten.
His whip, I think is nowa top ten. The ZRA is three
point three eight, which I thinkis getting him closer into like the top
twenties. He's been one of thebest pitchers in Major League Baseball all season.
Now. The problem is we're comparinghim to three other Philly starting pitchers

(39:21):
who have been three of possibly thebest pitchers at least in the National League.
They've been the best, so thatcomparison's unfair. But I think what
you have to be looking at nowis Nola's likely to be the more consistent
pitcher. Nola's likely actually going toget better. He's gotten better throughout his
career as the season has gone along. His two best months career wise in

(39:43):
terms of ra are both July andAugust. Nola's in great shape. This
isn't Nola's trying to, you know, make a bad season better like I
think he did last year. Youknow, I think he got better towards
the end of the year. Amade wit was a bad season a lot
better. He's pitching very well thisseason, and there's probably room for improvement,

(40:06):
Like there's likely going to be himgetting better. So he's to me
like still that I wouldn't be surprisedif Aaron Nola finishes near a top five
a CY Young candidate season, Likeif he finishes near that, I don't
know if he's gonna be top five. I haven't too much of what the
National League looks like in terms ofpitchers, but Nola's got himself in position

(40:30):
that if he really does ramp thingsup for the next three months and at
least for the next two which weknow he's been prolific in, I think
we're looking at a top five,near top five CY Young year for Aaron
Nola, and I think that needsto be appreciated a little bit more.
It's hard to appreciate it when heseems to be lagging behind the rest of

(40:51):
the starting rotation, but trust me, he's not far behind, and in
fact, he's probably gonna leap froga couple of those guys, maybe all
three, because I like the wayWheeler's pitching. But there's injury stuff that's
coming already, like a little bitof arm fatigue that's coming up. He's
gonna miss a start on Sunday ornot start on Sunday. I think they
were trying to force him into thatstart on Sunday and he's not going to

(41:13):
So Wheeler is not gonna pitch onSunday. So this seems to be a
little bit of like some arm fatiguestuff coming up. He's had arm injuries
and arm issues in the past.Nola is the one, to me,
is the workhorse. He's the onethat's going to gain the most innings pitched.
When and if he pitches more innings, he's obviously I think gonna finish
with more strikeouts, more wins.It's just all the numbers are gonna be

(41:36):
very good for him, and they'regonna they're gonna tally up and maybe potentially
be better than Wheeler. So I'mjust let's appreciate Aaron Nola. What other
thing we like to appreciate on hereis some good cinema. Line change is
where sports and cinema collide. Acouple of movies that I did watch.
I've watched a lot recently, soI think it's been a while since I've

(41:59):
been on the It talked about somemovies, so I will say this.
I don't think I've said this onthe pod yet. Hit Man is my
favorite movie of the year, onehundred percent so far. That is my
absolute favorite movie. If you havenot watched hip Man yet. It came
out early June, starring Adria AronaI always get her name wrong, but
also Glenn Powell is gonna be starringand Twisters coming up in just a few

(42:21):
days as well. Unbelievably great,funny, smart, It's a perfect type
of movie that I think everybody canlove. But it has this really clever
underlying story of identity belly below itthat I think, if you really want

(42:42):
to sink your teeth into something,it's it's Richard link Later. Richard link
Later has done already some amazing movieswith Boyhood, Before Sunrise, Before Sunset,
Before Midnight, which is one ofthe greatest movie trilogies I've ever seen,
and watched them all this year andthey're just absolutely terrific. If you
haven't watched them before series movie series, go see that. It's absolutely terrific.
But with Days and confused with everybodywon some and even with School of

(43:07):
Rock. School of Rock's a reallygood example of what Hitman is sort of
like playing off this genre film ofcomedy. School of Rock was just like
comedy kind of fell into the midto late two thousands kind of comedy stuff,
and Jack Black was terrific in it, but there was these really great
human moments that were played in Itwas heartfelt and it was genuine and it

(43:30):
was good and it was clever andreally smart and not just giving you all
the fun stuff without giving you aswell something to think about and link later.
I think does an awesome job atit. Hitman falls along the lines
of School of Rock, although Ithink a little bit more to think about
then with a School of Rock typemovie, but same thing where it feels
like, looks like kind of thisgenre comedy Netflix movie, and the way

(43:54):
it looks the way it feels,especially in the first thirty minutes but it's
very good because Glenn Powell's a superstar, it seems like at this point,
so it works and his star powerreally helps the first thirty minutes of the
movie, and then the movie completelytonally changes a couple of times into something
different and to something that is muchmore thoughtful, and by the end of

(44:17):
it makes this bold ending and it'snot too bold, but it's a bold
ending for what seems to be avery standard setup and a very Netflix like
this is going to be an easyto consume movie setup and gives something for
a lot of people, almost amoral dilemma to think about at the end
of it. And it's a greatway to tie to tie everything together thematically,

(44:42):
but also have people think morally aboutwhat the hell just happened at the
end of that. And it's sucha great, great way to end the
movie that I think was a brillianta stroke of genius from Richard link Later
and also Glenn Powell who were atthe movie as well. So watch it
Man. I know I've talked abouthit Man a little bit. Watch that.
That's my favorite movie of the year. So a quiet place day one

(45:05):
I'd liked. Look, it's ifyou like A Quiet Place movies, there
are some things that they do therethat are still to like, especially if
you want to if you like theidea of day one, the first maybe
thirty forty five minutes, it's agood setup into how these creatures if you
watch a Quiet Place movie, iscreatures that can't see, only can hear,
so they attack based off of sound, and so it's great and how

(45:30):
you see how they figure it out, how it slowly progresses, how tough
it was to get people into safety, and how they were adjusting to day
one of it. But also whatA Quiet Place also does really well is
family drama or just any kind ofdrama within it and using that that's set
up to tie together some really greathuman elements, and this movie tries that

(45:53):
sometimes it really works. Joseph Quinnis awesome in this movie. Joseph Quinn,
you know a Stranger Thing. She'sone who did The Master of Puppets
and he was extremely good in StrangerThings. But I think Any monthsA is
something that I forget his name,but he Joseph Quinn starred in it,
and he had a couple of greatscenes. One scene in particular that when

(46:15):
you watch the movie if you do. It was a complete show stealer.
Wasn't a scene steeler. It's acomplete show stealer. It was great,
and it probably made me like themovie a little bit more the most.
It's not the best, though,if you were expecting the quality that you
got out of a quiet place thefirst one and even the second one I
liked, I don't think you're goingto get that. This sometimes played off
like a and I saw somebody compareto this, and I wish I could

(46:37):
give them credit. Kind of playedoff like a you know the super Bowl
commercials where they try and play offof somebody's just you're trying to play off
of emotions, and it's a reallycheesy but cute little like somebody is helping
out maybe a child, or achild helps out an old person do something,
and they form this relationship and youget all emotional. It's amazing.

(46:58):
It's a little bit like that,like that here with the two main characters.
But what you do get, thoughis Joseph Quinn just absolutely crushing you
emotionally in a bunch of ways.And it made me smile, it make
me cry a little bit. Soit did do some things well, but
Overall, it's not as not asgood as I kind of wanted the Maybe

(47:22):
could have gotten a little bit moreof the destruction and chaos of what Day
one was supposed to be and whatit was like early on. Maybe he
could have done a little bit moreand bring together a more clever story.
It's fine if you like the quietplace movies, I would say go watch
it, but that's one that maybeif you want to wait and not go

(47:42):
to the theater, wait till itgoes on demand or on some type of
streaming service and you just want tocheck it out. I think it's that
kind of movie. But I sawthat and looking forward to the next couple
of movies. I'm really interested inLong Legs, apparently the best horror movie
of the year, one of thebest movies of the year in general,
so I can't wait to see that, and then also Twisters, a throwback

(48:06):
to a great ninety summer blockbuster,and we'll see if it lives up to
the hype. So far, reviewscame in it's good, but I can't
wait to see it for myself.I love a great blockbuster, and it
seems like Twisters pulls off sort ofwhat the original did. The Original Twister
did as well, all the wayback in the nineties. All right,
That is it for the line change. Think for tuning in. You can
follow me John Jansen add to JayJansen thirty four. You could check out

(48:28):
the line change wherever you get yourpodcasts. Just search up the line change
with John Jansen. Make sure toput that with John Jansen, the line
change with John Jansen. And thankyou as always to our friends on the
Cut sports betting app Kutt dot comers. You can find them on the website.
You can also find them wherever youdownload your apps. Kut t use
the referral code Gambler to get aten percent bonus as well ten percent sign

(48:52):
up bonus. So download the Cutapp, Kutt dot com and Kutt cut
is where you can find them onthe app store as well. That is
it for the line change. We'llbe back with more next time right here
on the Gambler m