Frank Scannapieco, Professor of Oral Biology at the University at Buffalo School of Dental Medicine.
August 22, 2024 • 26 mins
---------- Originally Aired on the Good Foods Podcast ----------
Frank A. Scannapieco, D.M.D., PhD. joins me in this very candid conversation about the connection between our oral health and our overall health. And yes, there is a connection between our dental hygiene and a host of diseases that they're just beginning to scrape the surface on.
Frank Scannapieco, SUNY Distinguished Professor of Oral Biology, has an international reputation in the field of oral biology. His research interests have included studies of basic mechanisms of dental plaque (biofilm) formation, and implications for health and disease. His laboratory has studied details of the interaction between salivary proteins and bacteria, and how these influence oral biofilms.
He is also a pioneer in studies connecting oral and systemic diseases such as pneumonia, COPD, diabetes and cancer. A member of the University at Buffalo faculty since 1991. Dr Scannapieco served as the Chair of the Department of Oral Biology from 2004 to 2022. Over his career, he has mentored numerous junior faculty, postdoctoral fellows, and graduate, dental and college students.
He was awarded a number of research grants over the course of his career, edited several books and journal supplements, and has published more than 170 peer-reviewed articles and book chapters.
A fellow of the American Association of Dental Research, Scannapieco has received several awards, including the State University of New York Chancellor’s Award for Excellence in Scholarship and Creative Activities, Distinguished Scientist Award in Oral Biology from the International Association for Dental Research, the William J. Gies Award for Achievement from the American Dental Education Association, and the Irwin D. Mandel Distinguished Mentoring Award, from the American Association for Dental Research.
He received a bachelor’s degree in biology and doctorate in dental medicine from the University of Connecticut, a master’s degree in biology from Northeastern University, and a PhD in oral biology and certificate in periodontics from the University at Buffalo.
Overall health/Dental health ➡️ https://rb.gy/m33zcy
Frank A. Scannapieco ➡️ https://rb.gy/bprp6i
Toothbrushing for Seniors ➡️ https://rb.gy/2tblyk
Oral Health ➡️ https://rb.gy/473x9o
The Good Foods podcast was created and hosted by Shardan Sandoval in March of 2023 and was active until September of 2024.
Frank A. Scannapieco, D.M.D., PhD. joins me in this very candid conversation about the connection between our oral health and our overall health. And yes, there is a connection between our dental hygiene and a host of diseases that they're just beginning to scrape the surface on.
Frank Scannapieco, SUNY Distinguished Professor of Oral Biology, has an international reputation in the field of oral biology. His research interests have included studies of basic mechanisms of dental plaque (biofilm) formation, and implications for health and disease. His laboratory has studied details of the interaction between salivary proteins and bacteria, and how these influence oral biofilms.
He is also a pioneer in studies connecting oral and systemic diseases such as pneumonia, COPD, diabetes and cancer. A member of the University at Buffalo faculty since 1991. Dr Scannapieco served as the Chair of the Department of Oral Biology from 2004 to 2022. Over his career, he has mentored numerous junior faculty, postdoctoral fellows, and graduate, dental and college students.
He was awarded a number of research grants over the course of his career, edited several books and journal supplements, and has published more than 170 peer-reviewed articles and book chapters.
A fellow of the American Association of Dental Research, Scannapieco has received several awards, including the State University of New York Chancellor’s Award for Excellence in Scholarship and Creative Activities, Distinguished Scientist Award in Oral Biology from the International Association for Dental Research, the William J. Gies Award for Achievement from the American Dental Education Association, and the Irwin D. Mandel Distinguished Mentoring Award, from the American Association for Dental Research.
He received a bachelor’s degree in biology and doctorate in dental medicine from the University of Connecticut, a master’s degree in biology from Northeastern University, and a PhD in oral biology and certificate in periodontics from the University at Buffalo.
Overall health/Dental health ➡️ https://rb.gy/m33zcy
Frank A. Scannapieco ➡️ https://rb.gy/bprp6i
Toothbrushing for Seniors ➡️ https://rb.gy/2tblyk
Oral Health ➡️ https://rb.gy/473x9o
The Good Foods podcast was created and hosted by Shardan Sandoval in March of 2023 and was active until September of 2024.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello. I'm Frank Scannapeco, the periodonist and microbiologist. I'm a
professor of oral biology at the University at Buffalo School
of Dental Medicine. And this is the Good Foods Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
All of us are on a journey towards better health,
and we're grateful that you've allowed us to join you
on your quest. In this episode, here's a.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Saying wing of both medicine and dentistry where people are
trying to go to natural products, and I think for
good reason. I think, you know, things that are natural
are more or less likely to be harmful, so it
makes sense. But I think you know again, it's imported
to go and try to find the evidence.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
This is the Good Foods Podcast, and now here's your
host shot Dan.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Hello, and thank you for coming on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
My pleasure. Thanks for the invitation.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
What does your role entail at the University of Buffalo
School of Dental Medicine.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I'm a professor of oral biology. Oral biology is a
unique branch of biology which concerns itself with the mouth
and how the mouth is connected to the body. Functions
of the mouth, both in health and disease. The department
i'm in in Buffalo, which is Department of Worro Biology,
was the first such department in the United States, and
(01:16):
it was intended to serve as the school's research arm
And so we have had a long history since the
early nineteen sixties focusing on basic science biology, biochemistry, microbiology
and the analogy bone biology, etc. And you know, most
of all of our faculty includes studies of the mouth
(01:37):
in some way, shape or form. And my interest is
specifically in the microbiology of the health. The microbes in
the mouth are required, how they colonize the mouth, and
how they might affect health and disease.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
So what does our dental health tell us about our
overall health, Professor.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Well, that's an interesting question. I think it's an interesting
story since having to do with the history of dentistry.
Of course, the mouth is part of the body. It's
no different than any other part of the body, but
it's often considered to be disconnected from the body, and
that's partly due to the history of dentistry in its
relationship with medicine. Of course, a healthy mouth is a
(02:17):
very great asset. You know, we breathe through it, we
take food in, we chew, we use it for speech,
a lot of our self image is built on our
smile and our mouth. So I think you know, we
all know we use our mouth every day. The question
is how does the mouth and when it's a poor state,
affect the body. My research interests over the last thirty
(02:38):
years or more has been to investigate various aspects of
oral health and disease as it affects the body. You know,
we could talk about some of these ideas as we
go along, well we will.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Have we always known about this connection between our dental
health and our overall health?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I think yes an extent. You know, moral problems have
been treated by analogs of dentists throughout history. But you know,
dentistry evolved separate from medicine. Deal procedures were performed by
you know, tradesmen who were also people who did other
(03:18):
things like you know, cut hair and did other skills,
some tasks for people. So and he really mostly entailed
extracting peak. And it wasn't until the eighteen hundreds that
the first schools of dentistry were founded, but they were
separate from medicine, and so the two professions have evolved separately.
(03:42):
And I think the problem has been because in medicine,
they don't pay a lot of attention to the mouth
because they feel it's the dentist job. So many physicians
don't learn a lot about the mouth and therefore don't
consider the mouth very often as a source of a
problem when they're looking at the body. The recognition that
for oral health could impact the body, I think was
(04:06):
first realized in medicine at the end of the eighteen hundreds,
right after people discovered the role of microbes, you know
Louis Pastor and Robert Coke and other people in the
mid eighteen hundreds that discovered, you know, infectious diseases. And
soon after that people started to think that many diseases
were caused by microbes. And then they realized the mouth
(04:28):
is a source of microbes, so they started putting two
and two together, and so there was a period of
time where a theory called the vocal infection hypothesis evolved,
whereby the thought was local infections like tooth infections, which
were chronic at the time. There was not great treatments,
there were no antibiotics. People died from tooth infections and
(04:50):
they thought those could spread to other parts of the body.
So I think this idea is not a new one.
It did fall out of favor in the early nineteen
hundreds and was basically ignored. When I was a student
a while ago, we didn't learn a whole lot about this.
As detal students, we learned a lot about medicine, but
the medical folks didn't really mention too much of how
(05:11):
the mouth could affect the body. And it was only
in the last thirty years or so where there's been
a growing body of evidence that poor oral health might
impact many common chronic diseases such as cardiovascular disease and stroke,
and respiratory diseases diabetes, Alzheimer's disease, et cetera, et cetera.
This is an idea that's grown and it's becoming more recognized.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
It So you believe that general practitioners could gain more
information about the patient by including maybe some specific questions
about our teeth and our overall dental hygiene. What would
that look like, Yes, I think a general if you
were to go to a primary care physician, I would
expect them to ask questions about your dental health. Do
(05:55):
you go to the dentists regularly? You get your teeth cleaned,
and they should do an oral animation where they could
look at the teeth and the gum tissue to see
if they're healthy or not.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
And it's not that difficult to really look and see,
although it does take a bit of experience, and you know,
things like mouth mirrors and other instruments might be necessary
to do an exam. But I think it's possible, and
I think some physicians do it, but I think a
good number of other physicians don't, So it's something I
think that, you know, more attention has to be paid
(06:27):
to it.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
So we don't have a set protocol that you know,
physicians are taught or educated in dental health. Do you
think that maybe over time we're going to try to
bridge that gap to incorporate these things.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yes, I think as the literature on this topic is growing,
I think, you know, there's may be some more attention
paid whereby perhaps more time is being spent in the
medical curriculum and even in nursing. I think nursing is
also a very important element of healthcare, and nurses play
a key role in delivering oral care, especially in hospitals
(07:03):
and nursing homes. So I think I'm hoping that I
do think there's been a little bit of an attempt
to include a little more education within the curriculum to
educate people of basic you know, oral health and disease
and how that would impact the body. And the most
important thing is really for people to educate patients about
the importance of it. You know, very often people ignore
their dental health. Part of it has to do with
(07:24):
the costs. They might not have the insurance and it
could be very expensive, and so there's a lot of
barriers to oral care. But I think, you know, we'll
see more attention pay going forward.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
So you mentioned diseases. What types of diseases in the
body are connected to How good or bad are oral
health is?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I think the list has grown to be a very
long list. The first disease that was pointed out to
potentially be connected to poor aural health goes back to
the late eighties and it was a study that was
conducted in Finland where they looked at patients admitted to
a hospital after they had a cardiac event a heart attack,
(08:05):
and they compared those patients to a group that wasn't
admitted for heart disease, and they noticed the people that
had heart problems had more dental problems than people who
didn't have the heart problem. Now that was a small study.
It was like, I think one hundred people in each group,
so that's called a case control study, but the differences
were quite remarkable. So that kicked off a lot of
(08:26):
research pointing out an association between poor oral health, especially
gum disease, paradontal disease, and poor cardiac health, and that
literature has really grown tremendous leaders a huge number of
epidemiological studies that show this association. But fortunately we haven't
had any clinical trials that have tested whether or not
(08:48):
dental care could reduce the risk for heart disease. And
that's been a problem because it'd be such a costly study.
It We'd cost millions of dollars to do this kind
of study, so we haven't seen a large scale study
of type. But there have been some small studies that
suggest that, you know, good oral hair and parodotal treatment
could impact and reduce the risk for heart disease. Other
(09:09):
diseases have been connected, diabetes and also Alzheimer's disease, Respiratory
diseases such as pneumonians, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and just
a lot of other diseases. And I think the key
pathway that bridges these two things is inflammation. So inflammation
(09:29):
has been shown to be a very important component of
disease progression. So many diseases like heart disease, after brosis,
and even cancer, Alzheimer's disease, et cetera, all have an
inflammatory component, And parodial disease and other metal diseases, root
canal problems, et cetera, are all inflammatory diseases. So the
(09:50):
thought is reducing inflammation is going to reduce risk for
many of these chronic diseases. So the idea is, you know,
pointing out if you know people have gum disease and
trying to treat it, reduce it, and that could contribute
to controlling inflammation and therefore other inflammatory centered diseases.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
So you mentioned pneumonio COPD, What about something like covid?
Is it because we have so much bacteria in our
mouths that maybe if we don't have good dental health,
maybe when we breathe or eat or do we ingest
this into our lungs?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Is that how? Let me understand how that works? Yeah, well,
I can tell you when COVID hit. You know, one
of the first thoughts I had was, you know, perhaps
oral health would be a risk factor for that, and
I think people have looked at that and have shown
I'm familiar with at least some studies that have shown
that people who have had serious COVID related disease hospitalizations,
(10:45):
et cetera, tended to have more paradontal disease. And the
thought was that the receptor for the COVID virus is
present in the oral tissues, so it's possible if you
have more inflammation in the mouths, you have more expression
of these receptors for the virus, and therefore the virus
more likely to stick to the oral tissues and then
(11:07):
be taken into the body. So that's one potential mechanism.
I'm not certain that's been proven. So the idea is,
of course, if you have really good hygiene and you
have a very clean mouth, and you have no periodicies,
you certainly would be less vulnerable to respiratory infection. I mean,
we've shown that it may be also true of COVID
(11:27):
and other viruses as well.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Should we think of our teeth and our gums kind
of like a signpost? To what's happening within the body, like, hey,
if this is happening in your teeth, Hey, things are
happening inside.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah. The mouth certainly is a place where certain diseases
are expressed, for example, diabetes. People who have diabetes, which
is poor control those blood sugar, those people tend to
have more gum disease, so there's a connection there. Diabetics
also have a lot of other problems. They have a
greater risk for infections, they have more inflammation, they have
(12:01):
a greater risk for heart disease and other problems. So
gum disease is one of the side effects of diabetes. Interestingly, though,
it's been suggested that if you have diabetes and gum disease,
if you treat the gum disease, it helps control your
blood sugar. So there is this kind of what's called
the bidirectional relationship between those diseases. So the thought is,
(12:26):
if you have diabetes, you should be aware of your
oral health and make sure you go to the dentists frequently,
get your teeth cleaned, and that'll help both your gums
and may also help you control your diabetes as well. Well.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Let's say that you're in the group that maybe, as
you mentioned, you know, don't have insurance or don't go
to the dentists. What's the professor's protocol.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Let's follow the professor's path. Yeah, well, I number one,
I really feel for people who don't have detal insurance
or maybe don't have the resources. I would encourage them
to seek in any way they can. There are places
where you could get free and reduce crost care, for example,
in a dental school, a hygiene school, or maybe public
(13:08):
health clinic or other clinics that are maybe available, you know,
try to do that. The other component of good oral health,
of course, is hygiene, and I can't really overemphasize the
importance of maintaining good oral hygiene. You know, it's simple
to say it, it's kind of hard to do it
because we have you know, if you have all your teeth,
you have thirty two teeth, and each of those teeth
(13:30):
has several as four surfaces or five surfaces that all
have to be cleaned. So it takes a lot more
time than most people are aware of, and it also
requires more tools than people are normally probably use. I mean,
of course, a toothbrush is essential. I saw a toothbrush,
but also using other tools like loss, and it's been
(13:51):
shown now there's other tools that are even more effective
than floss, things called interdental brushes, which are tiny little
brushes that could fit between teeth and are much more
efficient in removing the bacteria. So all of this, by
the way, I haven't even mentioned this. Oral health is
dependent on bacteria and other microbes that stick to the
teeth and form film out of the teeth, which we
(14:14):
call dental plaque or biofilm. There's a number of names
for this, but this is process that we all have
dental plaque. Some people have more than others, some people
have a propensity to make more plaque than others. But
everyone needs to clean their teeth every day using the
proper tools. Some people think you should do it twice
a day, three times a day. I think at least
(14:36):
once a day before bedtime is minimal. And it takes time.
It takes at least five minutes or more to do
a thorough a job of cleaning your teeth, and of
course most people don't spend that time. We're all in
a rush, we're all busy, we're tired. At the end
of the day, you know, we all have our reasons,
but I think it's important to build that into your routine.
(14:57):
And of course going to a dentist trigenis, they should
be will instruct you on proper techniques. They should give
you advice on what tools to use. Of course, every
drug store, every Walmart has a huge aisle of dental products,
so they're all there, some of who are you know,
not that expensive and I think if you know how
to use these tools can really do a lot to
help yourself.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Well, in the Good Foods grocery, we have a supplement section,
we have those products as well. I noticed that you
have that little sign that says flaws or die. Yeah,
I don't know how serious you are about flossing.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Professor, Well, that's the thing. It's a butuper secer. A
number of us got involved in this kind of research
three years ago. Somebody made that thing up and gave
me one. So I think it's cute, but it's probably true.
You know, if you don't keep good oral care, there's
probably a good chance you're gonna have a shorter lifetime.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
What about oil pulling? Does that help in killing the bacteria?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, that's an interesting idea. It's it's not a new idea.
It's actually something that has been in practice in different
parts of the world for a long time. The thought
is that the oil will extract from the surfaces of
the teeth and gums the bad stuff that might be
causing disease. So people have been doing that as sort
(16:17):
of an oral hygiene maneuver. There has been some interest
in that over the last few years. Not a lot
of large scale studies clinical trials have been done to
prove that it works. But you know, I think a
lot of these what would you call the home remedies
or old natural remedies, whatever called, some of these have
you know, pretty good basis with you know, natural products.
(16:41):
Some of these things work. Unfortunately, many of them have
not been proven because they haven't been studied well. And
that's a big problem, by the way, in dentistry as
a whole, and one like medicine, we don't have too
many large conglomerate companies, like pharmaceutical companies who are willing
to spend the money to develop products and test on
it properly and get FDA approval. You know, it's a
(17:02):
very expensive process. It's been said, for example, to put
any product through FDA approval. It costs a billion dollars,
which is really, you know, kind of a mind boggling thought. So,
you know, the devil market is really not as big
as medicine, so we haven't seen as much research going
into a lot of these ideas, unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Well, the reason I bring it up is because the
last time I had my doctor visit, which was last month,
the hygienist asked if I use mouthwash, and I said,
I don't know if I want all those chemicals that
it doesn't hurt, but it's like not a fun thing.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
And she said what about oil pullying?
Speaker 3 (17:34):
And it kind of surprised me because I was familiar
with it, but I han't.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
I have not been doing it.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
But I was like, I'll go that route, you know,
and let's see if it helps. You know, it probably
can't hurt, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I mean there's a certain wing of both medicine and
dentistry where people are trying to go to natural products,
and I think for good reason. I think, you know,
things that are natural are more or less likely to
be harmful, so it makes sense. But I think, you know,
again it's important to go and try to find the evidence. Now,
(18:05):
I think is healthcare practitioner is our job primarily is
educate people you know, what works what doesn't, and that's
based on science. So I'm not saying these things don't work.
But you know, the more information we have based on
real good science, which is political trials, pesting product versus
a placebo or or negative control, I think is an
(18:27):
important component of deciding what works and what doesn't.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Do we know of any clinical trials that are being
done now specifically to try to bridge that gap between
our dental health and our overall health.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yes, I think there are some things going on. Of course,
I know that in the United States, the biggest funder
of dental research is the National Institutes of Help. The
National Institute of Dental and cranio Facial Research is the
institute and the age that focuses on this, and they
have a relatively small budget compared to let's say, the
Cancer Institute or Allergy and Infectious disease, and so the
(19:02):
NIH itself doesn't have that much money, and these trials
do cost a lot of money. So a lot of
these studies are being done at a very small scale
by you know, different people around the world and different
metal schools. Or whatever. There are efforts going on. I
think we see them every day they're being published. Unfortunately,
many of these are small studies. You know, if you
(19:23):
do a study with twenty people, it may show something,
but it's more than likely not going to show anything.
So I think, you know, we need to do a
lot more as a profession to build coalitions that could
go ahead and test some of these ideas in a
large scale to prove some of these ideas. But there
has been quite a few studies, for example, and diabetes
(19:44):
showing that that will treatments such as tooth cleaning could
reduce the markers of diabetes. For example, there's just was
a study published, it was a systematic review showing that
toothbrushing could help reduce the risk for pneumonia in the hospital.
You know, there's a number of other areas of research
where you know, things are ongoing to try to address
(20:06):
these things. Another exciting area is Alzheimer's disease, which we
know is an epidemic and it's actually going to be
a bigger and bigger problem as our population ages. If
we were able to show that you know, good oral
character reduced the risk for Alzheimer's, that would be a
major advance. I think. So there's a lot of exciting
stuff going up.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
That study comes through and it shows that you're going
to have that on the six o'clock news for sure, Yeah,
for sure. Yes, So the medical profession is going along
its way, along its path. Eighteen hundreds, dentistry comes into play. Yeah,
was there any kind of pushback? You know when it
first started, there was it viewed in a poor light.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Well, the first Dell schools were you know, they were
standalone in schools, and there wasn't really. It was in
the late a hundreds, early nineteen hundreds that Tell school
started to be incorporated into universities and starting to partner
with medical schools. Today, you know, all dental students are
trained and have a basic science component and also a
(21:08):
medical component. They learn basic medicine. Sometimes they learn it
with medical students, sometimes they're separate, but it certainly it's
mandated that they learn a lot of medicine in medical school.
It's not the same, of course, medical school is. There's
not a whole lot. Most curricular don't have a lot
of dental specific learning going at So I think we
(21:29):
could certainly do more to educate the medical profession about
basic dentistry, and also I think really not so much
to treat the diseases, but to recognize them and then
to learn about these connections that are developing between oral
health in other conditions, so that they could keep that
in their mind when they're treating their patients and educate
(21:51):
their patients about the importance of dental health and you know,
if need be, you know, getting those treatments. Another interesting
thing that's happening is the recognition that perhaps treating dental
diseases could be important risk reduction for medical diseases, and
I think insurance companies are certainly aware of this. Some
insurance companies are including dental care in medical insurance plans,
(22:15):
and there is now a growing push to include certain
preventive dental services within Medicare, and that would be a
huge step forward. You know, if we had, if everyone
who had Medicare, or let's say Medicare r B, which
is you know, doctor's business and stuff like that, if
you also had access to some metal care, if you
can get your teeth cleaned twice a year, let's say
(22:36):
that alone, I think we'll have a huge impact. So
we'll see there is a lot of work being done
advocating for dental care as part of a medical insurance
type approach.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
It's surprising that it's not in the Medicare now because
you know, if you work at a good place that
has provides insurance, they provide a health insurance and dental insurance.
It kind of goes add in ant.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Now. Well, I think that companies sometimes I have to
you know, pair things back in dentistry. Deal care is
the first thing to go. Other things are also you know,
eye care and other things are always secondary to basic
medical care. So you know, we originally when Medicare was founded,
dental care was deliberately excluded. Okay, now there are few
things where you know, you go to the h if
(23:19):
you go to the doctor and they say you have cancer,
certain cancers, they will pay for certain detal procedures and
preparation for chemotherapy or other kinds of things. That's a
rather small group of people. I think the idea is
to try to include basic dental care, you know, tooth
cleaning and they basic and detal decay treatment, which might
(23:41):
then reduce the risk for other medical outcomes. So from
a cost benefit I think it would be a win win.
At least that's the hope. But we have a long
way to go to convince the insurance companies in medicare
to adopt these kinds of approaches.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
But I'm hopeful that we know of Are there certain
kind tries that have better dental health and others maybe
certain populations.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yes, yeah, there are some countries that have universal health care.
I'm thinking of some of the European countries, Gandidinavian countries.
Everyone has access to debtcare those countries, I think if
you look though, you'll see they have most people live longer,
and they have better overall health. This is all document
and by the way, epidemiological data. And many of these
(24:27):
countries also, by the way, have higher happiness indexes, which
I think is all tied together. I think, you know,
you know, when countries are willing to invest in good
health for the population, I think people are happier. So
it kind of makes sense.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
We've been talking about dental health and how important is
your diet when it comes to dental health.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Dentistry has long recognized importance of diet. We know that
process sugar is directly related to WK, so you know,
maintaining a diet that is, doesn't have lots of sugar
in it is crucial to maintaining good oral health. Also
having a balanced diet that's important for normal health of
(25:09):
the oral tissues, wound healing, you know, and anti inflammatories
certainly probably will influence the corrodatl status. But there's a
lot of tension now being paid to antioxidants as a
component of good oral health and good overall So, you know,
you are fresh fruits and vegetables, and I'm sure your
(25:31):
listeners are well aware of all these stings, but now
everything is all connected. I think good oral care and
good oral health is really intimately connected to good overall health,
and that's becoming more and more obvious.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
So finally, what would you like to see everyone do
for better oral health and Professor Frank's world? What does
that look like to?
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah, well, as I mentioned, you know, just every day
good oral care at least once a day before bedtime,
it's not one or two other times during the day.
Brushing the teeth, minimizing the plaqueity, and then seeing a
dentist the least annually. The heavy you teeth cleaned is
our minimal things I think that we could all do
and it'll pay off well in terms of maintaining good
(26:13):
overall health.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Professor.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
You know what, It's been fun. I really enjoyed it.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
The Good Foods podcast is for entertainment purposes only. The claims, comments, opinions,
or information heard should never be used in place of
your medical provider's advice or your doctor's direction. Thank you
for listening. Follow us on social media and wherever you
get your podcasts. Good Health through good Food, Good Foods
Grocery
Hello. I'm Frank Scannapeco, the periodonist and microbiologist. I'm a
professor of oral biology at the University at Buffalo School
of Dental Medicine. And this is the Good Foods Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
All of us are on a journey towards better health,
and we're grateful that you've allowed us to join you
on your quest. In this episode, here's a.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Saying wing of both medicine and dentistry where people are
trying to go to natural products, and I think for
good reason. I think, you know, things that are natural
are more or less likely to be harmful, so it
makes sense. But I think you know again, it's imported
to go and try to find the evidence.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
This is the Good Foods Podcast, and now here's your
host shot Dan.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Hello, and thank you for coming on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
My pleasure. Thanks for the invitation.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
What does your role entail at the University of Buffalo
School of Dental Medicine.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I'm a professor of oral biology. Oral biology is a
unique branch of biology which concerns itself with the mouth
and how the mouth is connected to the body. Functions
of the mouth, both in health and disease. The department
i'm in in Buffalo, which is Department of Worro Biology,
was the first such department in the United States, and
(01:16):
it was intended to serve as the school's research arm
And so we have had a long history since the
early nineteen sixties focusing on basic science biology, biochemistry, microbiology
and the analogy bone biology, etc. And you know, most
of all of our faculty includes studies of the mouth
(01:37):
in some way, shape or form. And my interest is
specifically in the microbiology of the health. The microbes in
the mouth are required, how they colonize the mouth, and
how they might affect health and disease.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
So what does our dental health tell us about our
overall health, Professor.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Well, that's an interesting question. I think it's an interesting
story since having to do with the history of dentistry.
Of course, the mouth is part of the body. It's
no different than any other part of the body, but
it's often considered to be disconnected from the body, and
that's partly due to the history of dentistry in its
relationship with medicine. Of course, a healthy mouth is a
(02:17):
very great asset. You know, we breathe through it, we
take food in, we chew, we use it for speech,
a lot of our self image is built on our
smile and our mouth. So I think you know, we
all know we use our mouth every day. The question
is how does the mouth and when it's a poor state,
affect the body. My research interests over the last thirty
(02:38):
years or more has been to investigate various aspects of
oral health and disease as it affects the body. You know,
we could talk about some of these ideas as we
go along, well we will.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Have we always known about this connection between our dental
health and our overall health?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I think yes an extent. You know, moral problems have
been treated by analogs of dentists throughout history. But you know,
dentistry evolved separate from medicine. Deal procedures were performed by
you know, tradesmen who were also people who did other
(03:18):
things like you know, cut hair and did other skills,
some tasks for people. So and he really mostly entailed
extracting peak. And it wasn't until the eighteen hundreds that
the first schools of dentistry were founded, but they were
separate from medicine, and so the two professions have evolved separately.
(03:42):
And I think the problem has been because in medicine,
they don't pay a lot of attention to the mouth
because they feel it's the dentist job. So many physicians
don't learn a lot about the mouth and therefore don't
consider the mouth very often as a source of a
problem when they're looking at the body. The recognition that
for oral health could impact the body, I think was
(04:06):
first realized in medicine at the end of the eighteen hundreds,
right after people discovered the role of microbes, you know
Louis Pastor and Robert Coke and other people in the
mid eighteen hundreds that discovered, you know, infectious diseases. And
soon after that people started to think that many diseases
were caused by microbes. And then they realized the mouth
(04:28):
is a source of microbes, so they started putting two
and two together, and so there was a period of
time where a theory called the vocal infection hypothesis evolved,
whereby the thought was local infections like tooth infections, which
were chronic at the time. There was not great treatments,
there were no antibiotics. People died from tooth infections and
(04:50):
they thought those could spread to other parts of the body.
So I think this idea is not a new one.
It did fall out of favor in the early nineteen
hundreds and was basically ignored. When I was a student
a while ago, we didn't learn a whole lot about this.
As detal students, we learned a lot about medicine, but
the medical folks didn't really mention too much of how
(05:11):
the mouth could affect the body. And it was only
in the last thirty years or so where there's been
a growing body of evidence that poor oral health might
impact many common chronic diseases such as cardiovascular disease and stroke,
and respiratory diseases diabetes, Alzheimer's disease, et cetera, et cetera.
This is an idea that's grown and it's becoming more recognized.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
It So you believe that general practitioners could gain more
information about the patient by including maybe some specific questions
about our teeth and our overall dental hygiene. What would
that look like, Yes, I think a general if you
were to go to a primary care physician, I would
expect them to ask questions about your dental health. Do
(05:55):
you go to the dentists regularly? You get your teeth cleaned,
and they should do an oral animation where they could
look at the teeth and the gum tissue to see
if they're healthy or not.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
And it's not that difficult to really look and see,
although it does take a bit of experience, and you know,
things like mouth mirrors and other instruments might be necessary
to do an exam. But I think it's possible, and
I think some physicians do it, but I think a
good number of other physicians don't, So it's something I
think that, you know, more attention has to be paid
(06:27):
to it.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
So we don't have a set protocol that you know,
physicians are taught or educated in dental health. Do you
think that maybe over time we're going to try to
bridge that gap to incorporate these things.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yes, I think as the literature on this topic is growing,
I think, you know, there's may be some more attention
paid whereby perhaps more time is being spent in the
medical curriculum and even in nursing. I think nursing is
also a very important element of healthcare, and nurses play
a key role in delivering oral care, especially in hospitals
(07:03):
and nursing homes. So I think I'm hoping that I
do think there's been a little bit of an attempt
to include a little more education within the curriculum to
educate people of basic you know, oral health and disease
and how that would impact the body. And the most
important thing is really for people to educate patients about
the importance of it. You know, very often people ignore
their dental health. Part of it has to do with
(07:24):
the costs. They might not have the insurance and it
could be very expensive, and so there's a lot of
barriers to oral care. But I think, you know, we'll
see more attention pay going forward.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
So you mentioned diseases. What types of diseases in the
body are connected to How good or bad are oral
health is?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I think the list has grown to be a very
long list. The first disease that was pointed out to
potentially be connected to poor aural health goes back to
the late eighties and it was a study that was
conducted in Finland where they looked at patients admitted to
a hospital after they had a cardiac event a heart attack,
(08:05):
and they compared those patients to a group that wasn't
admitted for heart disease, and they noticed the people that
had heart problems had more dental problems than people who
didn't have the heart problem. Now that was a small study.
It was like, I think one hundred people in each group,
so that's called a case control study, but the differences
were quite remarkable. So that kicked off a lot of
(08:26):
research pointing out an association between poor oral health, especially
gum disease, paradontal disease, and poor cardiac health, and that
literature has really grown tremendous leaders a huge number of
epidemiological studies that show this association. But fortunately we haven't
had any clinical trials that have tested whether or not
(08:48):
dental care could reduce the risk for heart disease. And
that's been a problem because it'd be such a costly study.
It We'd cost millions of dollars to do this kind
of study, so we haven't seen a large scale study
of type. But there have been some small studies that
suggest that, you know, good oral hair and parodotal treatment
could impact and reduce the risk for heart disease. Other
(09:09):
diseases have been connected, diabetes and also Alzheimer's disease, Respiratory
diseases such as pneumonians, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and just
a lot of other diseases. And I think the key
pathway that bridges these two things is inflammation. So inflammation
(09:29):
has been shown to be a very important component of
disease progression. So many diseases like heart disease, after brosis,
and even cancer, Alzheimer's disease, et cetera, all have an
inflammatory component, And parodial disease and other metal diseases, root
canal problems, et cetera, are all inflammatory diseases. So the
(09:50):
thought is reducing inflammation is going to reduce risk for
many of these chronic diseases. So the idea is, you know,
pointing out if you know people have gum disease and
trying to treat it, reduce it, and that could contribute
to controlling inflammation and therefore other inflammatory centered diseases.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
So you mentioned pneumonio COPD, What about something like covid?
Is it because we have so much bacteria in our
mouths that maybe if we don't have good dental health,
maybe when we breathe or eat or do we ingest
this into our lungs?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Is that how? Let me understand how that works? Yeah, well,
I can tell you when COVID hit. You know, one
of the first thoughts I had was, you know, perhaps
oral health would be a risk factor for that, and
I think people have looked at that and have shown
I'm familiar with at least some studies that have shown
that people who have had serious COVID related disease hospitalizations,
(10:45):
et cetera, tended to have more paradontal disease. And the
thought was that the receptor for the COVID virus is
present in the oral tissues, so it's possible if you
have more inflammation in the mouths, you have more expression
of these receptors for the virus, and therefore the virus
more likely to stick to the oral tissues and then
(11:07):
be taken into the body. So that's one potential mechanism.
I'm not certain that's been proven. So the idea is,
of course, if you have really good hygiene and you
have a very clean mouth, and you have no periodicies,
you certainly would be less vulnerable to respiratory infection. I mean,
we've shown that it may be also true of COVID
(11:27):
and other viruses as well.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Should we think of our teeth and our gums kind
of like a signpost? To what's happening within the body, like, hey,
if this is happening in your teeth, Hey, things are
happening inside.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah. The mouth certainly is a place where certain diseases
are expressed, for example, diabetes. People who have diabetes, which
is poor control those blood sugar, those people tend to
have more gum disease, so there's a connection there. Diabetics
also have a lot of other problems. They have a
greater risk for infections, they have more inflammation, they have
(12:01):
a greater risk for heart disease and other problems. So
gum disease is one of the side effects of diabetes. Interestingly, though,
it's been suggested that if you have diabetes and gum disease,
if you treat the gum disease, it helps control your
blood sugar. So there is this kind of what's called
the bidirectional relationship between those diseases. So the thought is,
(12:26):
if you have diabetes, you should be aware of your
oral health and make sure you go to the dentists frequently,
get your teeth cleaned, and that'll help both your gums
and may also help you control your diabetes as well. Well.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Let's say that you're in the group that maybe, as
you mentioned, you know, don't have insurance or don't go
to the dentists. What's the professor's protocol.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Let's follow the professor's path. Yeah, well, I number one,
I really feel for people who don't have detal insurance
or maybe don't have the resources. I would encourage them
to seek in any way they can. There are places
where you could get free and reduce crost care, for example,
in a dental school, a hygiene school, or maybe public
(13:08):
health clinic or other clinics that are maybe available, you know,
try to do that. The other component of good oral health,
of course, is hygiene, and I can't really overemphasize the
importance of maintaining good oral hygiene. You know, it's simple
to say it, it's kind of hard to do it
because we have you know, if you have all your teeth,
you have thirty two teeth, and each of those teeth
(13:30):
has several as four surfaces or five surfaces that all
have to be cleaned. So it takes a lot more
time than most people are aware of, and it also
requires more tools than people are normally probably use. I mean,
of course, a toothbrush is essential. I saw a toothbrush,
but also using other tools like loss, and it's been
(13:51):
shown now there's other tools that are even more effective
than floss, things called interdental brushes, which are tiny little
brushes that could fit between teeth and are much more
efficient in removing the bacteria. So all of this, by
the way, I haven't even mentioned this. Oral health is
dependent on bacteria and other microbes that stick to the
teeth and form film out of the teeth, which we
(14:14):
call dental plaque or biofilm. There's a number of names
for this, but this is process that we all have
dental plaque. Some people have more than others, some people
have a propensity to make more plaque than others. But
everyone needs to clean their teeth every day using the
proper tools. Some people think you should do it twice
a day, three times a day. I think at least
(14:36):
once a day before bedtime is minimal. And it takes time.
It takes at least five minutes or more to do
a thorough a job of cleaning your teeth, and of
course most people don't spend that time. We're all in
a rush, we're all busy, we're tired. At the end
of the day, you know, we all have our reasons,
but I think it's important to build that into your routine.
(14:57):
And of course going to a dentist trigenis, they should
be will instruct you on proper techniques. They should give
you advice on what tools to use. Of course, every
drug store, every Walmart has a huge aisle of dental products,
so they're all there, some of who are you know,
not that expensive and I think if you know how
to use these tools can really do a lot to
help yourself.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Well, in the Good Foods grocery, we have a supplement section,
we have those products as well. I noticed that you
have that little sign that says flaws or die. Yeah,
I don't know how serious you are about flossing.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Professor, Well, that's the thing. It's a butuper secer. A
number of us got involved in this kind of research
three years ago. Somebody made that thing up and gave
me one. So I think it's cute, but it's probably true.
You know, if you don't keep good oral care, there's
probably a good chance you're gonna have a shorter lifetime.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
What about oil pulling? Does that help in killing the bacteria?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, that's an interesting idea. It's it's not a new idea.
It's actually something that has been in practice in different
parts of the world for a long time. The thought
is that the oil will extract from the surfaces of
the teeth and gums the bad stuff that might be
causing disease. So people have been doing that as sort
(16:17):
of an oral hygiene maneuver. There has been some interest
in that over the last few years. Not a lot
of large scale studies clinical trials have been done to
prove that it works. But you know, I think a
lot of these what would you call the home remedies
or old natural remedies, whatever called, some of these have
you know, pretty good basis with you know, natural products.
(16:41):
Some of these things work. Unfortunately, many of them have
not been proven because they haven't been studied well. And
that's a big problem, by the way, in dentistry as
a whole, and one like medicine, we don't have too
many large conglomerate companies, like pharmaceutical companies who are willing
to spend the money to develop products and test on
it properly and get FDA approval. You know, it's a
(17:02):
very expensive process. It's been said, for example, to put
any product through FDA approval. It costs a billion dollars,
which is really, you know, kind of a mind boggling thought. So,
you know, the devil market is really not as big
as medicine, so we haven't seen as much research going
into a lot of these ideas, unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Well, the reason I bring it up is because the
last time I had my doctor visit, which was last month,
the hygienist asked if I use mouthwash, and I said,
I don't know if I want all those chemicals that
it doesn't hurt, but it's like not a fun thing.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
And she said what about oil pullying?
Speaker 3 (17:34):
And it kind of surprised me because I was familiar
with it, but I han't.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
I have not been doing it.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
But I was like, I'll go that route, you know,
and let's see if it helps. You know, it probably
can't hurt, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I mean there's a certain wing of both medicine and
dentistry where people are trying to go to natural products,
and I think for good reason. I think, you know,
things that are natural are more or less likely to
be harmful, so it makes sense. But I think, you know,
again it's important to go and try to find the evidence. Now,
(18:05):
I think is healthcare practitioner is our job primarily is
educate people you know, what works what doesn't, and that's
based on science. So I'm not saying these things don't work.
But you know, the more information we have based on
real good science, which is political trials, pesting product versus
a placebo or or negative control, I think is an
(18:27):
important component of deciding what works and what doesn't.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Do we know of any clinical trials that are being
done now specifically to try to bridge that gap between
our dental health and our overall health.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yes, I think there are some things going on. Of course,
I know that in the United States, the biggest funder
of dental research is the National Institutes of Help. The
National Institute of Dental and cranio Facial Research is the
institute and the age that focuses on this, and they
have a relatively small budget compared to let's say, the
Cancer Institute or Allergy and Infectious disease, and so the
(19:02):
NIH itself doesn't have that much money, and these trials
do cost a lot of money. So a lot of
these studies are being done at a very small scale
by you know, different people around the world and different
metal schools. Or whatever. There are efforts going on. I
think we see them every day they're being published. Unfortunately,
many of these are small studies. You know, if you
(19:23):
do a study with twenty people, it may show something,
but it's more than likely not going to show anything.
So I think, you know, we need to do a
lot more as a profession to build coalitions that could
go ahead and test some of these ideas in a
large scale to prove some of these ideas. But there
has been quite a few studies, for example, and diabetes
(19:44):
showing that that will treatments such as tooth cleaning could
reduce the markers of diabetes. For example, there's just was
a study published, it was a systematic review showing that
toothbrushing could help reduce the risk for pneumonia in the hospital.
You know, there's a number of other areas of research
where you know, things are ongoing to try to address
(20:06):
these things. Another exciting area is Alzheimer's disease, which we
know is an epidemic and it's actually going to be
a bigger and bigger problem as our population ages. If
we were able to show that you know, good oral
character reduced the risk for Alzheimer's, that would be a
major advance. I think. So there's a lot of exciting
stuff going up.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
That study comes through and it shows that you're going
to have that on the six o'clock news for sure, Yeah,
for sure. Yes, So the medical profession is going along
its way, along its path. Eighteen hundreds, dentistry comes into play. Yeah,
was there any kind of pushback? You know when it
first started, there was it viewed in a poor light.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Well, the first Dell schools were you know, they were
standalone in schools, and there wasn't really. It was in
the late a hundreds, early nineteen hundreds that Tell school
started to be incorporated into universities and starting to partner
with medical schools. Today, you know, all dental students are
trained and have a basic science component and also a
(21:08):
medical component. They learn basic medicine. Sometimes they learn it
with medical students, sometimes they're separate, but it certainly it's
mandated that they learn a lot of medicine in medical school.
It's not the same, of course, medical school is. There's
not a whole lot. Most curricular don't have a lot
of dental specific learning going at So I think we
(21:29):
could certainly do more to educate the medical profession about
basic dentistry, and also I think really not so much
to treat the diseases, but to recognize them and then
to learn about these connections that are developing between oral
health in other conditions, so that they could keep that
in their mind when they're treating their patients and educate
(21:51):
their patients about the importance of dental health and you know,
if need be, you know, getting those treatments. Another interesting
thing that's happening is the recognition that perhaps treating dental
diseases could be important risk reduction for medical diseases, and
I think insurance companies are certainly aware of this. Some
insurance companies are including dental care in medical insurance plans,
(22:15):
and there is now a growing push to include certain
preventive dental services within Medicare, and that would be a
huge step forward. You know, if we had, if everyone
who had Medicare, or let's say Medicare r B, which
is you know, doctor's business and stuff like that, if
you also had access to some metal care, if you
can get your teeth cleaned twice a year, let's say
(22:36):
that alone, I think we'll have a huge impact. So
we'll see there is a lot of work being done
advocating for dental care as part of a medical insurance
type approach.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
It's surprising that it's not in the Medicare now because
you know, if you work at a good place that
has provides insurance, they provide a health insurance and dental insurance.
It kind of goes add in ant.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Now. Well, I think that companies sometimes I have to
you know, pair things back in dentistry. Deal care is
the first thing to go. Other things are also you know,
eye care and other things are always secondary to basic
medical care. So you know, we originally when Medicare was founded,
dental care was deliberately excluded. Okay, now there are few
things where you know, you go to the h if
(23:19):
you go to the doctor and they say you have cancer,
certain cancers, they will pay for certain detal procedures and
preparation for chemotherapy or other kinds of things. That's a
rather small group of people. I think the idea is
to try to include basic dental care, you know, tooth
cleaning and they basic and detal decay treatment, which might
(23:41):
then reduce the risk for other medical outcomes. So from
a cost benefit I think it would be a win win.
At least that's the hope. But we have a long
way to go to convince the insurance companies in medicare
to adopt these kinds of approaches.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
But I'm hopeful that we know of Are there certain
kind tries that have better dental health and others maybe
certain populations.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yes, yeah, there are some countries that have universal health care.
I'm thinking of some of the European countries, Gandidinavian countries.
Everyone has access to debtcare those countries, I think if
you look though, you'll see they have most people live longer,
and they have better overall health. This is all document
and by the way, epidemiological data. And many of these
(24:27):
countries also, by the way, have higher happiness indexes, which
I think is all tied together. I think, you know,
you know, when countries are willing to invest in good
health for the population, I think people are happier. So
it kind of makes sense.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
We've been talking about dental health and how important is
your diet when it comes to dental health.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Dentistry has long recognized importance of diet. We know that
process sugar is directly related to WK, so you know,
maintaining a diet that is, doesn't have lots of sugar
in it is crucial to maintaining good oral health. Also
having a balanced diet that's important for normal health of
(25:09):
the oral tissues, wound healing, you know, and anti inflammatories
certainly probably will influence the corrodatl status. But there's a
lot of tension now being paid to antioxidants as a
component of good oral health and good overall So, you know,
you are fresh fruits and vegetables, and I'm sure your
(25:31):
listeners are well aware of all these stings, but now
everything is all connected. I think good oral care and
good oral health is really intimately connected to good overall health,
and that's becoming more and more obvious.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
So finally, what would you like to see everyone do
for better oral health and Professor Frank's world? What does
that look like to?
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah, well, as I mentioned, you know, just every day
good oral care at least once a day before bedtime,
it's not one or two other times during the day.
Brushing the teeth, minimizing the plaqueity, and then seeing a
dentist the least annually. The heavy you teeth cleaned is
our minimal things I think that we could all do
and it'll pay off well in terms of maintaining good
(26:13):
overall health.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Professor.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
You know what, It's been fun. I really enjoyed it.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
The Good Foods podcast is for entertainment purposes only. The claims, comments, opinions,
or information heard should never be used in place of
your medical provider's advice or your doctor's direction. Thank you
for listening. Follow us on social media and wherever you
get your podcasts. Good Health through good Food, Good Foods
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.