September 14, 2024 • 24 mins
Don Was, Grammy award winning producer, musician, filmmaker, and president of Blue Note Records, talks about his career, his influences, and what differentiates the musicians in the Folk Americana Hall of Fame inaugural class of inductees.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is What's at Risk with Mike Christian on WBZ,
Boston's news radio. Hi, Mike Christian, here of What's at Risk.
First up on tonight show, we speak with Don Laws
Grammy Award winning producer, musician, filmmaker, and president of Blue
Note Records. Don talks about his long and successful career,
(00:26):
his early influences, and what differentiates the musicians in both
Americana Hall of Fame inaugural class of inductees, and in
our second segment, welcome Hank Philippi. Ryan Emmy Award winning
investigative reporter for Boston's WHDHTV and best selling author of
(00:47):
fifteen novels of suspense. Hank provides Keen insights on her
early television career, her unique and incredibly successful creative process,
and her relentless pursuit of justice.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Chucking Chipskis Deep, Chucking.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Live the dun Man Together, all as in life.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Just keep chuck in.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Born in Detroit, Don was grew up listening to Detroit blues,
jazz music and the Rolling Stones. He went on to
form the group Was Not Was now widely recognized as
a record producer extraordinaire. Donn has worked with artists including
(01:51):
Bob Dylan, The Rolling Stones, Bonnie Rait, Elton, John Ringo Starr,
Willie Nelson, Brian Wilson, and many of them. He has
earned multiple Grammy Awards, including Producer of the Year in
nineteen ninety five. Donnas served as musical director or consultant
on several motion pictures, including Thelma and Louise, The Rainmaker,
(02:14):
Days of thunder Boys on the Side, and Toy Story.
He has also been serving as president of the legendary
jazz label Blue Note Records. Don thank you so much
(02:35):
for joining us today. You grew up in Detroit, a
town with an amazing and eclectic musical legacy. What did
you listen to in your early years? Who were some
of your favorites?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
So I grew up in a real dumbleaya of musical styles.
Great R and B from Detroit, Fortune Records, Motown Records
was made an Anser a young man, and great rock
and roll MC five and the Stooges students played at
my high school. Bob Seeker played at my high school.
Great jazz scene. But I will tell you this, I'm
(03:10):
really excited because at the at the Firehoff induction dinner,
I get to uh I get to induct Paul Stuti
and Peter Yarrow, who before there were Beatles, That's who
we all wanted to be. We all wanted to beat Peter,
Paul and Mary. I wouldn't be talking to you today
if it wasn't for those two guys. So it just
(03:32):
hit me that I've never met him and how important
they were to me.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I wouldn't have expected that answer, actually, but they're tremendous.
As a kid, I love Peter, paulm Mary too, saying pre.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Beatles, folk music was like alternative rock and roll in
the in the early sixties, and they became so popular
that everybody bought a Peter Palm Mary record. I was
probably in sixth read when they started doing that, and
we picked up guitars and wanted to be like Peter,
Paul and Mary. We watched Hot Nanny every night. So
(04:08):
it's a great honor to be able to award them.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
That's awesome, and they're going to join on. They're going
to join our show next week, Peter and Paul or
Nolan Peter, I should say, But so you've heard Joe
Spalding say music and arts connects us all and makes
us a civilized society.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
What are your thoughts about that.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I mean, you've been fully ensconced in the music world
most of your life.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Well, I agree with Joe one. There are there are
limits to how much you can convey with conversational language.
It's a it's a very limited medium of communication, and
the realm of human emotions takes to a whole other level.
(04:58):
And that's where art comes in. Really, in particular, music,
music is really a language. Rhythm is a language. Choice
of notes have very important meaning. And that's how we
go deeper into examining, you know, the big questions why
we're here, How do we deal with the uncertainties of life,
(05:23):
how do we deal with adversity, how do we appreciate beauty?
That's where art comes in.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Now you've worked with a lot of the greats. I mean,
I could go on and on listing the graces. Let's
just say Dylan, the Stones, Wayne Shorter, a whole list
of phenomenal musicians.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And I saw a quote from you. I'll read it here.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
The thing that unites them is that they understand the
value of storytelling. Do you remember that quote? That's a
great quote.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, yeah, well, I think that's really at the core
of any art. You know, it's about communication, and it's
about making people feel something, getting under the skin and
making them understanding their life and come to terms with
(06:12):
things about Life's the that's the story. I think. If
you go to a concert and you see someone playing
a million notes per second, it becomes acrobatics or like
throwing all kinds of ad libs in and twists and
phrases around for the sake of showing you what they
(06:32):
can do. Technique Wise's that's fun for about ten minutes,
but that doesn't leave you with a lasting impression. I've
read recently Martin Scorsese talking about how you know he
over time he learned that telling the story was the
most important thing. If you go look at his early movies,
(06:52):
you could see he came out of film school with
all these technique ideas and ultimately learned that the techniques
and the tricks were secondary to picking a great story
and telling it eloquently and emotionally. In the same exact thing,
It's true in music.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, but in music the story is not always told
with words.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Though right doesn't have to be told with words. Charlie
Parker about that all the time. You know. But when
I used to listen to Wayne Shorter as a teenager
back in Detroit, I didn't hear notes or a saxophone
or reads or a guy putting his fingers on, you know,
the keys of the instrument. What I heard was a
(07:34):
guy conversing with me. And if you listen to any
of his soulos, you can hear that he's talking to
talk to you, and you can read into it whatever
you want. And I talked with and I mean, I
wasn't just hallucinating that back in the nineteen sixties. I've
talked to Wayne about that very much. What he was
(07:57):
all about, Charlie Parker was all about that.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
You've seen the inductee list for the for far Off
of the Folk Americana Roots Hall of Fame inductees. It's
coming up in a week or so. Twenty nine artists.
You know, many names that you'd expect, Woody Guthrie, Dylan,
Joan Biaz, Joni Mitchell, the Birds.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
You could go on and on.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
What do you think made them distinctive and rise above
to get honored like this? And I don't think anybody
really disputes that list. You could probably add another ten
or twenty to it, But I don't think there's much
dispute about it. Is it that ability to tell stories
you were talking about? What do you think is the distinctive?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
It's a large part of it. One time I was
working with Dylan and I asked him late when I said,
how come you can write Gates of Eden and I can't?
And he said, well, if it makes you feel any better,
I don't really I didn't really write it, he said.
I remember moving the pencil over the page, but I
don't know where those were came from, as it came
(09:01):
from without, you know. And I think that most of
the great artists I've worked with peel exactly the same way.
Keith Richards, for example, someone in the studio. He never
said I got a great idea. He says, hold it,
hold it incoming. So I think the thing that connects
all these great inductees at the at faroff is that
(09:25):
they are connected to something deeper than the rest of us.
There they're they're they're they're tuned into something where these
messages get passed through to them. And I can't explain it,
I can. I can just recognize it in other people
and wish I had more of it.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
I'm not sure you have a lot a big dose
of it. Don It wasn't Keith Richard, the guy that
dreamt satisfaction.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
He did.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yes, that's a good story. That's a great story. So
so you've been personally involved with Farhof for a couple
of years now, not only as an advisor. I know
you're on the board of advisors by Curt, but by
curating and hosting last year's Wasfest, which is really an
aclectic group of musicians, Dark Star Orchestra, Steel Pauls, John Medeski,
(10:13):
led Us, and a bunch of others. Tell us a
little bit about how that came about.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Well, I came about to an agent in Boston named
Jack Randall, who's also on the board of Firehoff, and
he introduced me to Joe, and I met Joe anyway,
because I've played the theaters, you know, most recently, I
think I played the Wang with Bob Weird and those
are incredible halls, incredible halls. You play differently when you're
(10:43):
in a room with that kind of vibe and beauty
and sound and splendor, I would have to say, and
very rarely do the artists want to go out front
and look at the lobby, but you got to do
that when you get to the Wang Theater. It's just
such a wonderful place. So I already had a soft
(11:03):
spot in my heart for it, and they suggested the
idea was best, and we came up with the concept
and it was a lot of work to line it up,
but I was really pleased with what happened, and hopefully
we'll do it again. We got a little too busy
this year to do. It's a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, do you have it on the docket for twenty
four years ago?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Maybe that's hopefully next year, next year? Okay, Yeah. Now
you're the president.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Among all the other things that you do, you're the
president of the iconic jazz label Blue Note, just celebrating
its eighty fifth anniversary this year. And another connection to
the Wang and Dafarhoff is that the all seeing Blue
Blue Notes records through the eyes of Francis Wolf, who
was the founder of Blue Note.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
What is that exhibit and tell us a little bit
about that.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Francis Wolf was one of the founders of the company.
Before he was involved. He came over from Germany in
nineteen thirty nine, and he'd been a commercial photographer there,
so he started bringing his camera to all the sessions,
and in doing so, he captured probably the greatest historical
archive of photos. He photographed every Blueout session right up
(12:18):
until he passed away in the early seventies. And the
thing about this archive is that it's not just a
historical reference, it's not just a documentary. In the way
he lit these photos, I remember being completely awestruck by
them in nineteen sixty six when I started following Blue
(12:39):
Out Records, I thought that the photos had as much
vibe to him as the music, and they were the
visual counterpart to the incredible catalog of music that Bluenotes recorded.
If you look at the photos, they're all black and white,
and the walls all looked black, and there's a cigarette
(13:01):
smoke and saxophones and cool clothes. And as a teenager man,
I saw that stuff and I thought, I don't know
where they are, but I want to. I want to
be part of that that looks like the coolest place
in the world. And it kind of drew you into
the music even more. Make a long story short, we
finally were able to buy the archives, so we have them. Now.
(13:25):
We spent about two years restoring the negatives and this
is the first time they've ever been displayed in their
their full glory, you know, blown up big with the
proper negative and the right resolution. And uh, we're really
thrilled to be able to debut an exhibit of Francis
Wolfe's photos at Farhoff.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
You know, jazz is not included in the title of Farhoff,
but I would include jazz as as folk Americana music.
What do you think roots, roots, for sure? Yeah, yeah,
very influential in our history.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yep, very important.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yeah, now you have it.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
You have another quote, and maybe alluded to this before,
but if you make generous music, everything else will follow.
It's built into our DNA. We need great art that
helps us understand our complex, inter emotional selves. There's a
vision for Farhof, and particularly in this time of all
the mental health crisis that we're having, especially with young people,
(14:26):
and we've all heard about it, how do Farhoff has
Joe has a vision of Farhof that's a little reflective
of what the Wang has been education, you know for
young people. How do you see that and do you
do you see that as something that we can really
build on for that organization.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Oh man, absolutely. You know we touched on it earlier
when we talked about how music helps us to understand
things that conversational language falls short on explaining. I think
that those things really contribute into well being. I've used
I've used records. There's an album called Speak No Evil
(15:04):
by Wayne Shorter, And when I was twenty and dropped
out of college and back in nineteen seventy, I used
to get I got pretty lost and pretty depressed, and
when I put on Speak No Evil, it grounded me.
I remembered who I was, I remembered what my dreams were.
It got me back on track. And I still use
(15:26):
that record to this day. When I'm driving home, if
I've had a long tough day at an office, I'll
play side too Speak No Evil. By the time I'm
back in Santa Monica, I'm pretty groovy. You know, music's
got tremendous healing powers and properties. So I love the
(15:46):
fact that someone like Joe, who's presented music for so
long in the city, understands that and wants to do
more with a beautiful ye.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
It's a great vision, and I think, especially now and
music is so reflective of our history. I'm sure you
see that on every level in terms of cultural and
you know, anything that's happened throughout history gets reflected in
our music. And I hope we can convey to the
young people.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
I'm sure we'll be able to. They seem to naturally
gravitate to music and I might be listening to maybe
it is that was.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
That's what my parents said to me when I was
growing up in the sixties in California. So don you
have a new group or a new old group. Don
was in the Pan Detroit Ensemble. Want to talk a
little bit about that?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah? Sure, do you know? I got the opportunity to
the Detroit Symphony playing a show in Detroit, and I
had to put a band together for it, and I
really tried to think about what I'd like to do,
and I thought, for the most honest expression, go back
to where you came from. Team up with some like
minded individuals with common roots, and the band will have
(17:08):
a better conversation on stage every night. So there's a
sound I've been chasing now for thirty five years, I think,
and I've started jamming with different groups of people, but
this group of nine musicians when we all got together
last October just to rehearse and play a little bit.
It clicked and we all spoke the same language. There's
(17:31):
a sound to Detroit and for people who grew up
in that city that you got, like we spoke about earlier,
you got exposed to all different types of music and
that's reflected in this band. So I'm really excited about
taking it out in the road, which we started to
May twenty first, and I'm thrilled, you know, I'm excited
(17:53):
to see where it goes. I haven't started a new
band in a long time. It's a great adventure.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
And don't you have one or two of your bandmates
from was not.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Was in the Two of the guys Dave McMurray the
saxophone player, and Luis Resto keep a player. Dave mcmurry's
actually in our blue out and Luis worked for years
with eminem wrote a lot of the songs, won an
oscar with Eminema. So there are two guys. But I've
known all these guys for a while.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah, that's awesome, but.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
We never had an actual band together before, so this
would be great.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Right, I'll ask you one last question, and it's completely
off the far off topic, or maybe not. You are
playing with Bobby Weir and the Wolf Brothers, or you
have been for the last last few years. I grew
up a Deadhead and grew up in California, and I
always consider the Dead And an Americana band, not a
jam band necessarily. They were a jam band on some levels,
(18:52):
but they incorporated jazz and folk and you know, you know,
country and bluegrass and everything else. How's that experience been
for you playing with Bobby?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
That's been life changing? Man. I agree with you by
the way that I think it is very much roots
music thing, and more than just roots of you know,
some guys who grew up in Santa Cruz in the
fifties and sixties. I think it's particularly in Robert Hunter's lyrics.
(19:25):
He's tapping into some deep Joseph Campbell's stuff and those lyrics.
I stay stage every night and look at that audience
and I see what they respond to, and it's just
poetic and impressionistic enough that everybody can hang their own
inner emotional lives on these songs. And they've woven some
(19:46):
tales that means so much to people that when you
stand there and play that play, that music for them
and then get a reaction back. It then impacts your
next choice of notes. The audience reacting to those songs
becomes part of the band, and I've never experienced that
(20:07):
to that extent as I have. It's a grateful Dead audience,
and it doesn't even if it's not the best night
of playing, it will still happen, you know, three or
four times when everything connects, and when when you get
that circular motion going the exchange between the audience and
the band, you can blow the roof off the place,
(20:28):
be ashamed to damage the roof of the way, which
is beautiful.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I used to see Phil phil Letsh do that at
Winterland in San Francisco, when you'd see chunks of concrete
coming down off the roof with one of those bass notes.
I totally agree with you on Robert Hunter. I've said
that before. I think that's the differentiator for the Dead,
to be honest, and why they're so because those timeless lyrics.
Everybody knows them. Everybody knows Uncle John's man, everybody knows
(20:55):
Saint Stephen. You know, it comes out and then you go, wow,
that just brings me to another place. Not to mention
that the music's good.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
But yeah, I agree with you, and it's impressionistic enough
that it means something different to everybody. That's that's good poetry,
that really communicates on such a broad level that if
you get too specific in your songwriting, you know, like
I called my my blonde girlfriend from Tulsa yesterday, Well
that'll limit.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
My dog died yesterday, left me all alone.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Listen, I don't want to take up any more of
your time. You've been so generous. I really appreciate it.
I know the listeners appreciate it, and Joe appreciates it
in terms of, you know, how we can celebrate far
half in a meaningful way, and you're a big part
of it.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
So thanks, thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
One time, long ago, Joseph Campbell actually attended a Dead concert,
and here's what he had to say about it. I
had a marvelous experience two nights ago. I was invited
to a rock concert I'd never seen one. This was
a big haul in Berkeley, and the rock group was
The Grateful Dead, whose name, by the way, is from
(22:21):
the Egyptian Book of the Dead. And these are very
sophisticated boys. This was news to me. These deadheads are
doing the dance of life. The genius of these musicians,
these three guitars and two wild drummers in the back.
The central guitar, Bob Weir, just controls this crowd. And
when you see eight thousand kids all going up in
(22:44):
the air together, listen. This is powerful stuff.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
And what is it?
Speaker 1 (22:48):
The first thing I thought of was the Dionysian festivals,
and what it turns on is life energy. This is
Dionysus talking through these kids. Now I've seen similar manifestations,
but nothing as innocent as what I saw with this bunch.
This was sheer innocence. And when the great beam of
(23:09):
light would go over the crowd, you see these marvelous
young faces in sheer rapture for five hours, packed together
like sardines, eight thousand of them. This is a wonderful,
fervent loss of self in the larger self of a
homogeneous community. This is what it's all about. I was
(23:30):
carried away in a rapture, and so now I'm a deadhead.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Still time.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
When there is no blutars, no hands too low, Reach
out your home.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
We'll be right back after the news at the bottom
of the hour.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
To take the Mountain,
This is What's at Risk with Mike Christian on WBZ,
Boston's news radio. Hi, Mike Christian, here of What's at Risk.
First up on tonight show, we speak with Don Laws
Grammy Award winning producer, musician, filmmaker, and president of Blue
Note Records. Don talks about his long and successful career,
(00:26):
his early influences, and what differentiates the musicians in both
Americana Hall of Fame inaugural class of inductees, and in
our second segment, welcome Hank Philippi. Ryan Emmy Award winning
investigative reporter for Boston's WHDHTV and best selling author of
(00:47):
fifteen novels of suspense. Hank provides Keen insights on her
early television career, her unique and incredibly successful creative process,
and her relentless pursuit of justice.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Chucking Chipskis Deep, Chucking.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Live the dun Man Together, all as in life.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Just keep chuck in.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Born in Detroit, Don was grew up listening to Detroit blues,
jazz music and the Rolling Stones. He went on to
form the group Was Not Was now widely recognized as
a record producer extraordinaire. Donn has worked with artists including
(01:51):
Bob Dylan, The Rolling Stones, Bonnie Rait, Elton, John Ringo Starr,
Willie Nelson, Brian Wilson, and many of them. He has
earned multiple Grammy Awards, including Producer of the Year in
nineteen ninety five. Donnas served as musical director or consultant
on several motion pictures, including Thelma and Louise, The Rainmaker,
(02:14):
Days of thunder Boys on the Side, and Toy Story.
He has also been serving as president of the legendary
jazz label Blue Note Records. Don thank you so much
(02:35):
for joining us today. You grew up in Detroit, a
town with an amazing and eclectic musical legacy. What did
you listen to in your early years? Who were some
of your favorites?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
So I grew up in a real dumbleaya of musical styles.
Great R and B from Detroit, Fortune Records, Motown Records
was made an Anser a young man, and great rock
and roll MC five and the Stooges students played at
my high school. Bob Seeker played at my high school.
Great jazz scene. But I will tell you this, I'm
(03:10):
really excited because at the at the Firehoff induction dinner,
I get to uh I get to induct Paul Stuti
and Peter Yarrow, who before there were Beatles, That's who
we all wanted to be. We all wanted to beat Peter,
Paul and Mary. I wouldn't be talking to you today
if it wasn't for those two guys. So it just
(03:32):
hit me that I've never met him and how important
they were to me.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I wouldn't have expected that answer, actually, but they're tremendous.
As a kid, I love Peter, paulm Mary too, saying pre.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Beatles, folk music was like alternative rock and roll in
the in the early sixties, and they became so popular
that everybody bought a Peter Palm Mary record. I was
probably in sixth read when they started doing that, and
we picked up guitars and wanted to be like Peter,
Paul and Mary. We watched Hot Nanny every night. So
(04:08):
it's a great honor to be able to award them.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
That's awesome, and they're going to join on. They're going
to join our show next week, Peter and Paul or
Nolan Peter, I should say, But so you've heard Joe
Spalding say music and arts connects us all and makes
us a civilized society.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
What are your thoughts about that.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I mean, you've been fully ensconced in the music world
most of your life.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Well, I agree with Joe one. There are there are
limits to how much you can convey with conversational language.
It's a it's a very limited medium of communication, and
the realm of human emotions takes to a whole other level.
(04:58):
And that's where art comes in. Really, in particular, music,
music is really a language. Rhythm is a language. Choice
of notes have very important meaning. And that's how we
go deeper into examining, you know, the big questions why
we're here, How do we deal with the uncertainties of life,
(05:23):
how do we deal with adversity, how do we appreciate beauty?
That's where art comes in.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Now you've worked with a lot of the greats. I mean,
I could go on and on listing the graces. Let's
just say Dylan, the Stones, Wayne Shorter, a whole list
of phenomenal musicians.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And I saw a quote from you. I'll read it here.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
The thing that unites them is that they understand the
value of storytelling. Do you remember that quote? That's a
great quote.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, yeah, well, I think that's really at the core
of any art. You know, it's about communication, and it's
about making people feel something, getting under the skin and
making them understanding their life and come to terms with
(06:12):
things about Life's the that's the story. I think. If
you go to a concert and you see someone playing
a million notes per second, it becomes acrobatics or like
throwing all kinds of ad libs in and twists and
phrases around for the sake of showing you what they
(06:32):
can do. Technique Wise's that's fun for about ten minutes,
but that doesn't leave you with a lasting impression. I've
read recently Martin Scorsese talking about how you know he
over time he learned that telling the story was the
most important thing. If you go look at his early movies,
(06:52):
you could see he came out of film school with
all these technique ideas and ultimately learned that the techniques
and the tricks were secondary to picking a great story
and telling it eloquently and emotionally. In the same exact thing,
It's true in music.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, but in music the story is not always told
with words.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Though right doesn't have to be told with words. Charlie
Parker about that all the time. You know. But when
I used to listen to Wayne Shorter as a teenager
back in Detroit, I didn't hear notes or a saxophone
or reads or a guy putting his fingers on, you know,
the keys of the instrument. What I heard was a
(07:34):
guy conversing with me. And if you listen to any
of his soulos, you can hear that he's talking to
talk to you, and you can read into it whatever
you want. And I talked with and I mean, I
wasn't just hallucinating that back in the nineteen sixties. I've
talked to Wayne about that very much. What he was
(07:57):
all about, Charlie Parker was all about that.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
You've seen the inductee list for the for far Off
of the Folk Americana Roots Hall of Fame inductees. It's
coming up in a week or so. Twenty nine artists.
You know, many names that you'd expect, Woody Guthrie, Dylan,
Joan Biaz, Joni Mitchell, the Birds.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
You could go on and on.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
What do you think made them distinctive and rise above
to get honored like this? And I don't think anybody
really disputes that list. You could probably add another ten
or twenty to it, But I don't think there's much
dispute about it. Is it that ability to tell stories
you were talking about? What do you think is the distinctive?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
It's a large part of it. One time I was
working with Dylan and I asked him late when I said,
how come you can write Gates of Eden and I can't?
And he said, well, if it makes you feel any better,
I don't really I didn't really write it, he said.
I remember moving the pencil over the page, but I
don't know where those were came from, as it came
(09:01):
from without, you know. And I think that most of
the great artists I've worked with peel exactly the same way.
Keith Richards, for example, someone in the studio. He never
said I got a great idea. He says, hold it,
hold it incoming. So I think the thing that connects
all these great inductees at the at faroff is that
(09:25):
they are connected to something deeper than the rest of us.
There they're they're they're they're tuned into something where these
messages get passed through to them. And I can't explain it,
I can. I can just recognize it in other people
and wish I had more of it.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
I'm not sure you have a lot a big dose
of it. Don It wasn't Keith Richard, the guy that
dreamt satisfaction.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
He did.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yes, that's a good story. That's a great story. So
so you've been personally involved with Farhof for a couple
of years now, not only as an advisor. I know
you're on the board of advisors by Curt, but by
curating and hosting last year's Wasfest, which is really an
aclectic group of musicians, Dark Star Orchestra, Steel Pauls, John Medeski,
(10:13):
led Us, and a bunch of others. Tell us a
little bit about how that came about.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Well, I came about to an agent in Boston named
Jack Randall, who's also on the board of Firehoff, and
he introduced me to Joe, and I met Joe anyway,
because I've played the theaters, you know, most recently, I
think I played the Wang with Bob Weird and those
are incredible halls, incredible halls. You play differently when you're
(10:43):
in a room with that kind of vibe and beauty
and sound and splendor, I would have to say, and
very rarely do the artists want to go out front
and look at the lobby, but you got to do
that when you get to the Wang Theater. It's just
such a wonderful place. So I already had a soft
(11:03):
spot in my heart for it, and they suggested the
idea was best, and we came up with the concept
and it was a lot of work to line it up,
but I was really pleased with what happened, and hopefully
we'll do it again. We got a little too busy
this year to do. It's a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, do you have it on the docket for twenty
four years ago?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Maybe that's hopefully next year, next year? Okay, Yeah. Now
you're the president.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Among all the other things that you do, you're the
president of the iconic jazz label Blue Note, just celebrating
its eighty fifth anniversary this year. And another connection to
the Wang and Dafarhoff is that the all seeing Blue
Blue Notes records through the eyes of Francis Wolf, who
was the founder of Blue Note.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
What is that exhibit and tell us a little bit
about that.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Francis Wolf was one of the founders of the company.
Before he was involved. He came over from Germany in
nineteen thirty nine, and he'd been a commercial photographer there,
so he started bringing his camera to all the sessions,
and in doing so, he captured probably the greatest historical
archive of photos. He photographed every Blueout session right up
(12:18):
until he passed away in the early seventies. And the
thing about this archive is that it's not just a
historical reference, it's not just a documentary. In the way
he lit these photos, I remember being completely awestruck by
them in nineteen sixty six when I started following Blue
(12:39):
Out Records, I thought that the photos had as much
vibe to him as the music, and they were the
visual counterpart to the incredible catalog of music that Bluenotes recorded.
If you look at the photos, they're all black and white,
and the walls all looked black, and there's a cigarette
(13:01):
smoke and saxophones and cool clothes. And as a teenager man,
I saw that stuff and I thought, I don't know
where they are, but I want to. I want to
be part of that that looks like the coolest place
in the world. And it kind of drew you into
the music even more. Make a long story short, we
finally were able to buy the archives, so we have them. Now.
(13:25):
We spent about two years restoring the negatives and this
is the first time they've ever been displayed in their
their full glory, you know, blown up big with the
proper negative and the right resolution. And uh, we're really
thrilled to be able to debut an exhibit of Francis
Wolfe's photos at Farhoff.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
You know, jazz is not included in the title of Farhoff,
but I would include jazz as as folk Americana music.
What do you think roots, roots, for sure? Yeah, yeah,
very influential in our history.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yep, very important.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yeah, now you have it.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
You have another quote, and maybe alluded to this before,
but if you make generous music, everything else will follow.
It's built into our DNA. We need great art that
helps us understand our complex, inter emotional selves. There's a
vision for Farhof, and particularly in this time of all
the mental health crisis that we're having, especially with young people,
(14:26):
and we've all heard about it, how do Farhoff has
Joe has a vision of Farhof that's a little reflective
of what the Wang has been education, you know for
young people. How do you see that and do you
do you see that as something that we can really
build on for that organization.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Oh man, absolutely. You know we touched on it earlier
when we talked about how music helps us to understand
things that conversational language falls short on explaining. I think
that those things really contribute into well being. I've used
I've used records. There's an album called Speak No Evil
(15:04):
by Wayne Shorter, And when I was twenty and dropped
out of college and back in nineteen seventy, I used
to get I got pretty lost and pretty depressed, and
when I put on Speak No Evil, it grounded me.
I remembered who I was, I remembered what my dreams were.
It got me back on track. And I still use
(15:26):
that record to this day. When I'm driving home, if
I've had a long tough day at an office, I'll
play side too Speak No Evil. By the time I'm
back in Santa Monica, I'm pretty groovy. You know, music's
got tremendous healing powers and properties. So I love the
(15:46):
fact that someone like Joe, who's presented music for so
long in the city, understands that and wants to do
more with a beautiful ye.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
It's a great vision, and I think, especially now and
music is so reflective of our history. I'm sure you
see that on every level in terms of cultural and
you know, anything that's happened throughout history gets reflected in
our music. And I hope we can convey to the
young people.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
I'm sure we'll be able to. They seem to naturally
gravitate to music and I might be listening to maybe
it is that was.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
That's what my parents said to me when I was
growing up in the sixties in California. So don you
have a new group or a new old group. Don
was in the Pan Detroit Ensemble. Want to talk a
little bit about that?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah? Sure, do you know? I got the opportunity to
the Detroit Symphony playing a show in Detroit, and I
had to put a band together for it, and I
really tried to think about what I'd like to do,
and I thought, for the most honest expression, go back
to where you came from. Team up with some like
minded individuals with common roots, and the band will have
(17:08):
a better conversation on stage every night. So there's a
sound I've been chasing now for thirty five years, I think,
and I've started jamming with different groups of people, but
this group of nine musicians when we all got together
last October just to rehearse and play a little bit.
It clicked and we all spoke the same language. There's
(17:31):
a sound to Detroit and for people who grew up
in that city that you got, like we spoke about earlier,
you got exposed to all different types of music and
that's reflected in this band. So I'm really excited about
taking it out in the road, which we started to
May twenty first, and I'm thrilled, you know, I'm excited
(17:53):
to see where it goes. I haven't started a new
band in a long time. It's a great adventure.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
And don't you have one or two of your bandmates
from was not.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Was in the Two of the guys Dave McMurray the
saxophone player, and Luis Resto keep a player. Dave mcmurry's
actually in our blue out and Luis worked for years
with eminem wrote a lot of the songs, won an
oscar with Eminema. So there are two guys. But I've
known all these guys for a while.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah, that's awesome, but.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
We never had an actual band together before, so this
would be great.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Right, I'll ask you one last question, and it's completely
off the far off topic, or maybe not. You are
playing with Bobby Weir and the Wolf Brothers, or you
have been for the last last few years. I grew
up a Deadhead and grew up in California, and I
always consider the Dead And an Americana band, not a
jam band necessarily. They were a jam band on some levels,
(18:52):
but they incorporated jazz and folk and you know, you know,
country and bluegrass and everything else. How's that experience been
for you playing with Bobby?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
That's been life changing? Man. I agree with you by
the way that I think it is very much roots
music thing, and more than just roots of you know,
some guys who grew up in Santa Cruz in the
fifties and sixties. I think it's particularly in Robert Hunter's lyrics.
(19:25):
He's tapping into some deep Joseph Campbell's stuff and those lyrics.
I stay stage every night and look at that audience
and I see what they respond to, and it's just
poetic and impressionistic enough that everybody can hang their own
inner emotional lives on these songs. And they've woven some
(19:46):
tales that means so much to people that when you
stand there and play that play, that music for them
and then get a reaction back. It then impacts your
next choice of notes. The audience reacting to those songs
becomes part of the band, and I've never experienced that
(20:07):
to that extent as I have. It's a grateful Dead audience,
and it doesn't even if it's not the best night
of playing, it will still happen, you know, three or
four times when everything connects, and when when you get
that circular motion going the exchange between the audience and
the band, you can blow the roof off the place,
(20:28):
be ashamed to damage the roof of the way, which
is beautiful.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I used to see Phil phil Letsh do that at
Winterland in San Francisco, when you'd see chunks of concrete
coming down off the roof with one of those bass notes.
I totally agree with you on Robert Hunter. I've said
that before. I think that's the differentiator for the Dead,
to be honest, and why they're so because those timeless lyrics.
Everybody knows them. Everybody knows Uncle John's man, everybody knows
(20:55):
Saint Stephen. You know, it comes out and then you go, wow,
that just brings me to another place. Not to mention
that the music's good.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
But yeah, I agree with you, and it's impressionistic enough
that it means something different to everybody. That's that's good poetry,
that really communicates on such a broad level that if
you get too specific in your songwriting, you know, like
I called my my blonde girlfriend from Tulsa yesterday, Well
that'll limit.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
My dog died yesterday, left me all alone.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Listen, I don't want to take up any more of
your time. You've been so generous. I really appreciate it.
I know the listeners appreciate it, and Joe appreciates it
in terms of, you know, how we can celebrate far
half in a meaningful way, and you're a big part
of it.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
So thanks, thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
One time, long ago, Joseph Campbell actually attended a Dead concert,
and here's what he had to say about it. I
had a marvelous experience two nights ago. I was invited
to a rock concert I'd never seen one. This was
a big haul in Berkeley, and the rock group was
The Grateful Dead, whose name, by the way, is from
(22:21):
the Egyptian Book of the Dead. And these are very
sophisticated boys. This was news to me. These deadheads are
doing the dance of life. The genius of these musicians,
these three guitars and two wild drummers in the back.
The central guitar, Bob Weir, just controls this crowd. And
when you see eight thousand kids all going up in
(22:44):
the air together, listen. This is powerful stuff.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
And what is it?
Speaker 1 (22:48):
The first thing I thought of was the Dionysian festivals,
and what it turns on is life energy. This is
Dionysus talking through these kids. Now I've seen similar manifestations,
but nothing as innocent as what I saw with this bunch.
This was sheer innocence. And when the great beam of
(23:09):
light would go over the crowd, you see these marvelous
young faces in sheer rapture for five hours, packed together
like sardines, eight thousand of them. This is a wonderful,
fervent loss of self in the larger self of a
homogeneous community. This is what it's all about. I was
(23:30):
carried away in a rapture, and so now I'm a deadhead.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Still time.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
When there is no blutars, no hands too low, Reach
out your home.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
We'll be right back after the news at the bottom
of the hour.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
To take the Mountain,
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