November 16, 2024 • 27 mins
Reverend Liz Walker, founder of the Can We Talk Network and Berklee School of Music Therapy chair Joy Allen discuss music and the arts in the context of violence and trauma: how it heals, how it connects communities, and how it can unlock inner resilience and help people find joy in the wake of tragedy -- all informed by the latest science on how the arts impacts mental health.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome back to What's at Risk. I'm Mike Christian. Reverend
Liz Walker, an ordained minister in the African Methodist Episcopal tradition,
is a two thousand and five graduate of Harvard Divinity
School and a veteran television journalist. Liz broke barriers by
(00:26):
becoming Boston's first black TV news anchor on WBZ. She
also served as pastor of Roxbury Presbyterian Church, but her
achievements reached far beyond that as a journalist. Her thirty
plus year career in Boston took her around the globe
and garnered numerous awards. As a humanitarian, she has worked
(00:47):
with United Nations on behalf of people from Sudan to Georchester.
She also founded the Can We Talk Community healing initiative.
Joy Allen, PhD is an accomplished clinician, researcher, and educator
with extensive experience in psychological health, pain management, and trauma
(01:07):
informed education and supervision. She serves as the chair of
Berkeley College of Music's Music Therapy Department. Alan routinely collaborates
with educational, healthcare and community leaders on the design and
implementation of music and health centered programs that incorporate music
experiences to make an impact on the overall quality of life.
(01:32):
In addition to chair responsibilities, Allan is the founding and
acting director of the Music and Health Institute. Well our
guests today are Reverend Liz Walker, community activist, journalist and
founding director of Can We Talk, and Joy Allen, acting
Director Berkeley Music and Health Institute and Chair of Berkeley's
(01:53):
Music Therapy Department. Great to have both of you today,
Thanks for joining, Thank you, thank you. Well. Maybe a
good place to start for our listeners is just for
you both to talk about your very impressive backgrounds. You
want to start, Liz, well, real quickly.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I used to be where you are my go I mean,
I was a journalist for many years and then went
into ministry, and it was through ministry that we founded
an organization called Can We Talk, which is a community
healing a community trauma healing program that we started in
twenty fourteen in response to violence in our neighborhood and
(02:29):
the neighborhood of Roxbury as a way for people to
come together and lament or mourn or just talk about
what they're going through. And we've done that since twenty fourteen.
And then I would say one of the peak experiences
of that was this conference that we just recently had
with Joy and the group from Berkeley. So this partnership
(02:55):
has been transformative for us as a grassroots organization to
deal with an institution on a way to find healing
in a troubled world. So that's where I am to
this point.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, well that's great and Joy, how about you? You're
doing most of the jobs at Berkeley right now? Can
you tell us a little bit about your background?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Are background by training is? I'm a board certified music
therapist and I've been practicing for about twenty five years
and various medical and community based settings, anything from really
working with people and processing life limiting illnesses to working
with adolescents and adults who have experienced traumatic events, whether
(03:37):
that's related to environmental disasters to life circumstances and happenings
or things that have been perpetuated on them. And I
came to Berkeley about eight years ago to chair of
the Music Therapy Program which trains feature music therapists and
started the Music and Health Institute as a way of
(03:58):
really doing cross diciplinary, cross sector engagement so that we
can have a greater impact on working with our communities
to help with healing and restoring health where we need
it to be.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Before we talk about Arts Activation twenty twenty four, which
Liz reference, maybe we can just dig a little bit
deeper into each of your organizations. Liz, what was the
impetus to start? Can we talk because that's grown and
become pretty well known. But there was a precipitating event
for that too, right.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Absolutely, there was a murder. This was back in twenty ten,
but we had had a rash of shootings in Roxbury
and one of those who was killed was a young
man who belonged to our church. I was a pastor
at that time of Roxbury Presbyterian Church and one of
our members had been killed a year before I got there.
(04:53):
And when I got there, we were trying to figure
out how to support this family that was devastated. Not
just this family, but families throughout the community that were
devastated by violence. And so this program got started as
a way to do that. We did the marches, we
did the gun control meetings, we met with the politicians,
(05:18):
we did everything you're supposed to to. But what we
realized was that people in our neighborhood were still hurting
that there is no closure here, There is no justice
really when you go through this kind of violence. And
so the can We Talk program was really just opened
up so that people could come and grieve their losses
and grieve together and know that they are in community.
(05:42):
It got off to a start that just blew my
mind away. We were only responding to one event in
our neighborhood, but eventually, over the time, other churches asked
us about doing it, and as I think I mentioned,
now we're in fifteen different sites around the country and growing.
I wrote a book about it, and I suspect that
that will help us grow even more so. The idea
(06:04):
of gathering in community around pain is what our program
is about. The art part of that program was just
kind of organically became a part of it, because that's
what we do in the Black Church. We sing and
we move and we dance and we express ourselves that way.
And so that too grew, and that was exciting that
(06:27):
we could be a part of this.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yeah, that's great. You know, a friend of mine always
says arts heal, and I think that's absolutely true. He
says it all the time, and he's in that business
of the arts jury, maybe talk a little bit about
Berkeley Music and Health Institute, because that was started in twentyninighteen, that's.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Correct, and you know it's in some ways. You know
how Reverend Rocker was talking about community, right, We know
that all of us connect to and respond to music
in some way, shape or form, whether it's physically through
our heart, our respiratory rates, socially connecting with others, emotionally
feeling validated, helping to control our emotions, helping to express
(07:08):
or access emotions spiritually, cognitively, and more. And we also
know that people use music therapeutically and different professions and
your doctors use it, nurses use music within health outcomes, therapists,
and more. And we really wanted to connect and expand
the community to really work together for research, policy change
(07:30):
as well as to provide tools and resources to leaders
and future leaders on how music can be used beneficially.
And going back to what you said, you don't have
to be a musician for music to be good for you.
You don't have to be an artist for art to
be good for you. And it's really taking that message
and say here's something that you have used throughout your
(07:52):
whole life that you can now reconnect to, recapture, bring
back into the foreground for something that right there that
can be good for you and help you through all
of life's transitions and challenges. It doesn't cure, it helps alleviate,
It helps connect, it helps validate. And that's why I
we started the Music and Health Institute is to really
(08:15):
harness communities from all disciplines from biotech to healthcare to
community to say, hey, if we work together, we can
paint theory to practice, we can put tools back in
and we can have new solutions that improve the health
and wellbeing of ourselves in our communities.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
And when I think about music in particular, it creates
a sense of community. If you go see music together,
if you're singing together, if you're in church. That to
me is the thing that always strikes me about music.
It just brings us together, and that's got to be
doing well.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
And you know, going back to even with what Reverend
Walker was mentioning too, within trauma, we know part of
addressing and coming from a trauma informed practice and building
resilience has to do it empowerment, but also has to
do with being connected with others and that is so
important to feel comfortable, to feel accepted, to be heard,
and to feel safe and that ability and what the
(09:11):
Can We Talk network is doing is that very thing,
and then being able to partner within that just like said,
music is such a rich part of our black and
brown communities and being able to harness that and say that, hey,
this isn't just music for music's sake, that this is
actually something that is helping people in so many different ways.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Interesting thing to me about music is that we experience
trauma in the body. We experience it in our minds
and in our spirits, but it's also in the body.
And so music taps into the body, right, I mean,
whether you're tapping your foot to something, or you're nodding
your head, or your heart's beating faster because you'd like
the beat. But that is a scientifically proven healing tool
(09:55):
that we've always used in spiritual situation. And so I
love the idea of science and spirit working spirituality working
together to heal people emotionally and psychologically. And that's what
joy I think you'll agree with me. That's what science
is discovering.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Oh my gosh, you like the best spokesperson ever, that
we actually know, we actually know from science and the
neuroscience that music is the one thing that hits multiple
regions of your brain. So whether you know it's related
to you know, your frontal lobe or your prefrontal cortex
(10:33):
that controls emotions, it's able to have that ability to
literally light up those parts and help with with neuroplasticity.
But it also hits the neurotransmitters, right, so the things
like the dopamine, the things that lead to you know,
when someone's traumatized, her is experienced trauma. It's that balance
between living in that constant state of alarm, that hyper
(10:54):
arousal prevents them from learning and growing and being present.
And we can know that music can help with regaining
and modulating not only those neurochemicals that are activated, but
also with learning new skills. And the music is just
hitting in so many different areas in different ways that
we experience music, whether we're actually playing or singing, or
(11:17):
taking in and listening or going through movement. It's such
a beautiful thing that, like you said, the science is
right there that shows not only is it hitting and
activating those areas, but it's helping to modulate. It's helping
to find new pathways, and it's helping to balance out
neurochemicals that we want with the ones that we want
(11:38):
to decrease.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Right, And of course indigenous cultures and societies have known
that for thousands of years. They didn't need scientists to
validate it.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
For I always say, you know they had it right
back then. Is just as preschoolers have it right.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Right.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
If you think about preschoolers, they're free to create, they
use music, they're not worried about coloring in between the lines,
they're not worried about what they look like. They're free
and they're creative, and we need to sometimes go back
and capture that creativity to support our own well being.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Absolutely, no question. Well, we want to talk a little
bit about Art Activation twenty twenty four. I know that
happened a couple of weeks ago, but that's an event
that I think is an annual event. Am I correct about.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
That we're helping So this was the first annual it's done.
This was the first time. So there's a bigger arts
and health movement happening globally, and there's been citywide activations
in some of the larger cities in the United States,
and we decided let's do one in Boston. But we
wanted it to be from the bottom up. We wanted
(12:39):
it to start and be rooted in community versus institutional driven,
and so that way we could really amplify the voices
of the organizations and of the work that's taking place
that doesn't necessarily get highlighted or noticed. We started within
Roxbury and Dorchester because of that, and they have such
(13:00):
rich arts legacies and we wanted to be able to
amplify that. And now we're hoping to continue and expand
into other neighborhoods, include other organizations and institutions, but again,
wanted to start with community.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
And I think it was such a perfect starting And
I'll just give you one little anecdote from the day
that we had this one day conference. It was all
day long, and we had meetings and we had sessions,
and we had keynotes and speakers. But at one point
we were all together and we were doing kind of
a dance that was a healing dance, and we were
(13:33):
in the Bruce Bowling Building on the main floor, and
there were little girls outside who just happened to be
passing by and noticed what we were doing, and they
danced from outside in the streets with us, and there
was something about that that was so healing and hopeful
and beautiful. So I know we have to do this
(13:55):
again because it is about the community from the ground up,
working with the institution and we all learn from each other.
And I thought it was just I don't know what
they do in other cities, but I hope they do
something like what Berkeley did because it was a really
powerful empowering act for the community. It worked really well,
(14:16):
you know.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
And it's funny when you talk about dancing before or
during a community get together like that. I've done some
work in Africa, in both Rwanda and Kenya, and they
practically always open up a meeting with singing and dancing.
Practically every meeting is opened up that way, and it
(14:37):
loosens It loosens everybody up, particularly.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Me, absolutely, and it's healing and it brings people together,
which I think Joyce said before, absolutely a collective power
in that. So it's it's more than entertainment. I think
we've always looked at it, Ah, isn't that entertaining, But
it does so much more. And if you trace it
around the world. You'll see it in an indigenous places
(15:00):
everywhere that people use that power.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And that arts activation is who attended. You had a
whole array of different people from all parties that I mean.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
That was another beauty of it and something that I'm
beaming as I'm talking about it. You see on the
radio that you can't see, but I am. I'm glowing
and beaming and smiling at the beauty of that because
it was. We had anything from top public health officials,
representatives from the World Health Organization, the JIMIL Arts and
(15:33):
Health Lab, local physicians, local policymakers, community members, community leaders, artists,
all ages. We had anything from younger, younger kids, college
aged kids to older adults who really spoke so much
about how arts have made an impact in their lives
(15:54):
and in some ways giving themselves permission to go back
to using their arts and part of their own culture product,
their own identity that when life happens, it gets pushed aside.
We had leaders, like you said, from all over, but
made sure that on every panel that we had in
every art experience, in demonstration and immersion experience, that they
(16:14):
were the community leaders, the community artists, the community members
that were part of those and we're leading those discussions,
leading those impacts because again, they know what's best in
their community.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
At the end of the day, actually, how can we talk?
And I was a little concerned about that because can
we talk is done in the church basement and the
community comes with This was a very public, public space,
and I thought, how is this going to work? And
it worked beautifully. People got it. People understood exactly what
we were talking about about sharing our inmost secrets, in
(16:49):
our inmost desires and hopes with what would be strangers
except for it's kind of like you've created a community
just in the sharing. So that was my affirmation that
the entire day was a success, that people got it.
People danced as a way to express their pain and
their hope. It was really something. The whole day.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
We had a poster that said how have the arts
impacted your health and well being? And people put down
on sticky notes how it has and if you have
an opportunity, we'll be posting it on social media. You know,
anything from this allows me to have purpose, to have joy.
(17:31):
This has allowed me to connect with myself and others.
It has saved me from my darkest moments. I mean
those are things that, yes, we have the science and
the data to show, but those are lived experiences and
people's lives that have been impacted in positive ways.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
No, Liz, you just mentioned mental health, and I think
I'll just read a stat here that strikes me all
the time. Is over twenty percent of American adults. That's
more than fifty million people experienced some so of mental
illness every year. Mental health issues, especially post COVID, have
increased dramatically. What do you think Some of those reasons
(18:08):
are the obvious reason of the isolation of COVID, but
it seems to have exacerbated since COVID. How do you
How do you both feel about that?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Well, I know Jod probably has some very formal and
effit I think people feel like they don't have control,
and you're a sense of the loss of control, a
sense of the world seems to be going on a
really paid I don't I can't say why people have
different mental ill you know, mental issues, but I know
that for me, things are moving so fast in some days,
(18:41):
I just don't know how to get a grip to
feel a part of things, and I think that's what
leads to the isolation that really is one of the issues.
I think for those who are suffering from emotional crises.
There's probably all different kinds of reasons that we have
such a a tick uptick in mental health things right now.
(19:04):
But the idea that you don't have control and the
isolation and the anger that has been generated out in
the atmosphere, that's another thing. It's like, what the heck?
Everybody's that and we've you know, I'm not even getting
on a political level, just on general level, people are
(19:24):
feeling kind of like untethered.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
I think you said exactly some of the very thing
same things. I would say isolation leads to feeling a
lack of purpose, feeling a lack of connection. When you
don't feel connected, you don't feel like you're a part
of something, It impacts you in many different ways, from
feeling stuck in a situation and what is the future?
(19:48):
Is there a future? What am I doing? But there's
also seems to be what happens with isolation is our
ability to empathize with others really gets impacted. And I
think we do have a real societal challenge with not
only isolation and loneliness, but empathy and if you lack
that empathy because you can't put yourself in a someone's
(20:12):
situation because you've been so isolated or you just cannot connect.
It adds to those frustrations of feeling out of control
and anger versus really putting yourself in a position to
learn from different lived experiences or to feel emotions, and
that's important within that development of humanity and compassion for
(20:35):
one another.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I think that's exactly right. And the divisiveness not only
in our country, but the divisiveness and political and otherwise,
you know, with that underlying sort of feeling of anger,
and I'm sure isolation has a lot to do with it.
That's palpable. I think. I think everybody feels unsettled at
this point in time, but everybody also wants to get
(20:57):
out of this point in time. What are the and
you were talking arts activation is a way to take
a step out. What advice would you give to people
out there about how can you make that step out
of where we're at today? It's unsettled time, The world's
on fire right now. How do we we simmer it
down a little bit?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I would say, what I'm doing, and this is all
lived experience for me, is I'm really taking extra steps
to reach out to people, to reach out to my friends,
to reach out to my family. You know, we're all
moving so fast, those of us who think we're doing
things and those of us who are listening and just
slow down. And I would also suggest that when you're hurting,
(21:41):
that you tell somebody you know what I'm not. This
is not going right for me. And maybe it's someone
who can reach out to somebody, or maybe not, but
it's just the idea of reaching out. I think that's
really important. I'm going to say, joy, I'll let you
take it. But I know you need to dance. I
can't have no skills, but I do dance now more
(22:02):
than ever, even if I'm by myself, because I know
that that helps me heal. I put music on, I
sing aloud. So there are all kinds of little things
I think we can do to help ourselves.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
And I one hundred percent again agree. And again, you
don't have to be a dancer for dance to be
good for you. And I'm a perfect example of that.
I think finding ways to reconnect with self and with others,
and you know, using the arts to be able to
do that take take you know, even if it's something
(22:37):
simple that you know, for five minutes you belt out
your favorite song. That is going to increase your dopamine,
that is going to help regulate your breath patterns, that's
going to help you feel validated emotionally to some some experience,
bring up a good memory with family or friends, share
a favorite song, invite to have a quick dance break.
(23:02):
Go back to checking in and taking those risks. Find
there's so many beautiful community classes out there that community
centers are running, and if they're not helped form one.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
About volunteering in the community. Did you talk about that
in the arts activation?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Absolutely? And really, you know, anytime that we're talking, it's
you know, there's so many, so many people have so
many skills. And again, if we get away from I
didn't go to college for it, I'm not an expert
in that. Instead say you have an expertise that is valuable.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
One of the things I think that we end up
with is the feeling of empowerment. And what Joy was
saying is that you don't feel helpless, that there is
something you can do right where you stand, right where
you are. You don't have to you know, start an organization,
you don't have to be, you know, college educated. You
can do something that makes a positive difference in this
(23:58):
world and it's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Well, and Liz, even going back to your example of
the two girls he saw dancing and came in, take
a five minute dance break on the street, because I
guarantee you're going to make someone smile. You might have
someone who joins in. Those are just like little simple
things that it's not rocket science. It may seem silly,
but can make a big impact in someone's life, including yours.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I think if I started dancing on the street, that
would create more angst.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
There's a challenge. I think we have a TikTok challenge
for you there.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Well, we could turn it into something humorous. I guess
people would look at it that way. Well, I'll just
leave you with one more question. And you've been saying
about this, but with the arts activation event, which was
a formal event and brought together so many different people
from so many different walks, how do you carry that
conversation on? Is there a plan? Did you walk away
(24:51):
saying these are the next steps.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
We're in the process of that, but there will be
continued conversations. We've already had contact with leaders from other
communities who happen to come in that day and say, hey,
how can we recommend how can we replicate this and Salem,
how can we make this unique for Quincy? How can
we be involved? Neighborhood Marching Association saying hey, next time,
we want to be included. We want to continue, but
(25:16):
we also want to have conversations now about having more
art opportunities just on Saturdays in our neighborhood. Right, So
we're working on putting continued conversations, but also not just
the conversations, but hey, highlighting and now that we know
the richer communities to say, hey, did you know this
is happening on Saturday, or did you know this is
(25:38):
happening on Monday or this program, so that we can
start supporting one another and the work that is taking
place and getting the word out to members of those communities.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Absolutely. And another thing is when you walk by that
musician who's playing that saxophone or a guitar or singing
on the street and they have that little copy, put
a little money.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
In the dollar in there, yeah for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
And smile at them. We have we are blessed in
the Boston area. You can go down Newbury Street on
weekends and see, you know, artists from Berkeley who are performing.
So we have art people the city sings sometimes. You know,
support that and really get involved in that and you'll
be moving things along.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Well. We've been talking to Reverend Liz Walker and Joy
Allen of Berkeley College of Music. Thank you both so much.
That was a very rich and enjoying conversation. Thank you
so much. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Thank you both.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Well, that's all for this week. I'm Mike Christian inviting
you to join us again next week on What's at Risk.
Also check out our podcast at Wbznewsradio dot iHeart dot
com What's on your Mind? Send us your thoughts, comments
and questions to What's at Risk at gmail dot com.
(27:02):
That's one word, What's at Risk at gmail dot com.
Thank you. A big thank you to our producer, Ken
Carberry of Chart Productions
Welcome back to What's at Risk. I'm Mike Christian. Reverend
Liz Walker, an ordained minister in the African Methodist Episcopal tradition,
is a two thousand and five graduate of Harvard Divinity
School and a veteran television journalist. Liz broke barriers by
(00:26):
becoming Boston's first black TV news anchor on WBZ. She
also served as pastor of Roxbury Presbyterian Church, but her
achievements reached far beyond that as a journalist. Her thirty
plus year career in Boston took her around the globe
and garnered numerous awards. As a humanitarian, she has worked
(00:47):
with United Nations on behalf of people from Sudan to Georchester.
She also founded the Can We Talk Community healing initiative.
Joy Allen, PhD is an accomplished clinician, researcher, and educator
with extensive experience in psychological health, pain management, and trauma
(01:07):
informed education and supervision. She serves as the chair of
Berkeley College of Music's Music Therapy Department. Alan routinely collaborates
with educational, healthcare and community leaders on the design and
implementation of music and health centered programs that incorporate music
experiences to make an impact on the overall quality of life.
(01:32):
In addition to chair responsibilities, Allan is the founding and
acting director of the Music and Health Institute. Well our
guests today are Reverend Liz Walker, community activist, journalist and
founding director of Can We Talk, and Joy Allen, acting
Director Berkeley Music and Health Institute and Chair of Berkeley's
(01:53):
Music Therapy Department. Great to have both of you today,
Thanks for joining, Thank you, thank you. Well. Maybe a
good place to start for our listeners is just for
you both to talk about your very impressive backgrounds. You
want to start, Liz, well, real quickly.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I used to be where you are my go I mean,
I was a journalist for many years and then went
into ministry, and it was through ministry that we founded
an organization called Can We Talk, which is a community
healing a community trauma healing program that we started in
twenty fourteen in response to violence in our neighborhood and
(02:29):
the neighborhood of Roxbury as a way for people to
come together and lament or mourn or just talk about
what they're going through. And we've done that since twenty fourteen.
And then I would say one of the peak experiences
of that was this conference that we just recently had
with Joy and the group from Berkeley. So this partnership
(02:55):
has been transformative for us as a grassroots organization to
deal with an institution on a way to find healing
in a troubled world. So that's where I am to
this point.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, well that's great and Joy, how about you? You're
doing most of the jobs at Berkeley right now? Can
you tell us a little bit about your background?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Are background by training is? I'm a board certified music
therapist and I've been practicing for about twenty five years
and various medical and community based settings, anything from really
working with people and processing life limiting illnesses to working
with adolescents and adults who have experienced traumatic events, whether
(03:37):
that's related to environmental disasters to life circumstances and happenings
or things that have been perpetuated on them. And I
came to Berkeley about eight years ago to chair of
the Music Therapy Program which trains feature music therapists and
started the Music and Health Institute as a way of
(03:58):
really doing cross diciplinary, cross sector engagement so that we
can have a greater impact on working with our communities
to help with healing and restoring health where we need
it to be.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Before we talk about Arts Activation twenty twenty four, which
Liz reference, maybe we can just dig a little bit
deeper into each of your organizations. Liz, what was the
impetus to start? Can we talk because that's grown and
become pretty well known. But there was a precipitating event
for that too, right.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Absolutely, there was a murder. This was back in twenty ten,
but we had had a rash of shootings in Roxbury
and one of those who was killed was a young
man who belonged to our church. I was a pastor
at that time of Roxbury Presbyterian Church and one of
our members had been killed a year before I got there.
(04:53):
And when I got there, we were trying to figure
out how to support this family that was devastated. Not
just this family, but families throughout the community that were
devastated by violence. And so this program got started as
a way to do that. We did the marches, we
did the gun control meetings, we met with the politicians,
(05:18):
we did everything you're supposed to to. But what we
realized was that people in our neighborhood were still hurting
that there is no closure here, There is no justice
really when you go through this kind of violence. And
so the can We Talk program was really just opened
up so that people could come and grieve their losses
and grieve together and know that they are in community.
(05:42):
It got off to a start that just blew my
mind away. We were only responding to one event in
our neighborhood, but eventually, over the time, other churches asked
us about doing it, and as I think I mentioned,
now we're in fifteen different sites around the country and growing.
I wrote a book about it, and I suspect that
that will help us grow even more so. The idea
(06:04):
of gathering in community around pain is what our program
is about. The art part of that program was just
kind of organically became a part of it, because that's
what we do in the Black Church. We sing and
we move and we dance and we express ourselves that way.
And so that too grew, and that was exciting that
(06:27):
we could be a part of this.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yeah, that's great. You know, a friend of mine always
says arts heal, and I think that's absolutely true. He
says it all the time, and he's in that business
of the arts jury, maybe talk a little bit about
Berkeley Music and Health Institute, because that was started in twentyninighteen, that's.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Correct, and you know it's in some ways. You know
how Reverend Rocker was talking about community, right, We know
that all of us connect to and respond to music
in some way, shape or form, whether it's physically through
our heart, our respiratory rates, socially connecting with others, emotionally
feeling validated, helping to control our emotions, helping to express
(07:08):
or access emotions spiritually, cognitively, and more. And we also
know that people use music therapeutically and different professions and
your doctors use it, nurses use music within health outcomes, therapists,
and more. And we really wanted to connect and expand
the community to really work together for research, policy change
(07:30):
as well as to provide tools and resources to leaders
and future leaders on how music can be used beneficially.
And going back to what you said, you don't have
to be a musician for music to be good for you.
You don't have to be an artist for art to
be good for you. And it's really taking that message
and say here's something that you have used throughout your
(07:52):
whole life that you can now reconnect to, recapture, bring
back into the foreground for something that right there that
can be good for you and help you through all
of life's transitions and challenges. It doesn't cure, it helps alleviate,
It helps connect, it helps validate. And that's why I
we started the Music and Health Institute is to really
(08:15):
harness communities from all disciplines from biotech to healthcare to
community to say, hey, if we work together, we can
paint theory to practice, we can put tools back in
and we can have new solutions that improve the health
and wellbeing of ourselves in our communities.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
And when I think about music in particular, it creates
a sense of community. If you go see music together,
if you're singing together, if you're in church. That to
me is the thing that always strikes me about music.
It just brings us together, and that's got to be
doing well.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
And you know, going back to even with what Reverend
Walker was mentioning too, within trauma, we know part of
addressing and coming from a trauma informed practice and building
resilience has to do it empowerment, but also has to
do with being connected with others and that is so
important to feel comfortable, to feel accepted, to be heard,
and to feel safe and that ability and what the
(09:11):
Can We Talk network is doing is that very thing,
and then being able to partner within that just like said,
music is such a rich part of our black and
brown communities and being able to harness that and say that, hey,
this isn't just music for music's sake, that this is
actually something that is helping people in so many different ways.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Interesting thing to me about music is that we experience
trauma in the body. We experience it in our minds
and in our spirits, but it's also in the body.
And so music taps into the body, right, I mean,
whether you're tapping your foot to something, or you're nodding
your head, or your heart's beating faster because you'd like
the beat. But that is a scientifically proven healing tool
(09:55):
that we've always used in spiritual situation. And so I
love the idea of science and spirit working spirituality working
together to heal people emotionally and psychologically. And that's what
joy I think you'll agree with me. That's what science
is discovering.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Oh my gosh, you like the best spokesperson ever, that
we actually know, we actually know from science and the
neuroscience that music is the one thing that hits multiple
regions of your brain. So whether you know it's related
to you know, your frontal lobe or your prefrontal cortex
(10:33):
that controls emotions, it's able to have that ability to
literally light up those parts and help with with neuroplasticity.
But it also hits the neurotransmitters, right, so the things
like the dopamine, the things that lead to you know,
when someone's traumatized, her is experienced trauma. It's that balance
between living in that constant state of alarm, that hyper
(10:54):
arousal prevents them from learning and growing and being present.
And we can know that music can help with regaining
and modulating not only those neurochemicals that are activated, but
also with learning new skills. And the music is just
hitting in so many different areas in different ways that
we experience music, whether we're actually playing or singing, or
(11:17):
taking in and listening or going through movement. It's such
a beautiful thing that, like you said, the science is
right there that shows not only is it hitting and
activating those areas, but it's helping to modulate. It's helping
to find new pathways, and it's helping to balance out
neurochemicals that we want with the ones that we want
(11:38):
to decrease.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Right, And of course indigenous cultures and societies have known
that for thousands of years. They didn't need scientists to
validate it.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
For I always say, you know they had it right
back then. Is just as preschoolers have it right.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Right.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
If you think about preschoolers, they're free to create, they
use music, they're not worried about coloring in between the lines,
they're not worried about what they look like. They're free
and they're creative, and we need to sometimes go back
and capture that creativity to support our own well being.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Absolutely, no question. Well, we want to talk a little
bit about Art Activation twenty twenty four. I know that
happened a couple of weeks ago, but that's an event
that I think is an annual event. Am I correct about.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
That we're helping So this was the first annual it's done.
This was the first time. So there's a bigger arts
and health movement happening globally, and there's been citywide activations
in some of the larger cities in the United States,
and we decided let's do one in Boston. But we
wanted it to be from the bottom up. We wanted
(12:39):
it to start and be rooted in community versus institutional driven,
and so that way we could really amplify the voices
of the organizations and of the work that's taking place
that doesn't necessarily get highlighted or noticed. We started within
Roxbury and Dorchester because of that, and they have such
(13:00):
rich arts legacies and we wanted to be able to
amplify that. And now we're hoping to continue and expand
into other neighborhoods, include other organizations and institutions, but again,
wanted to start with community.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
And I think it was such a perfect starting And
I'll just give you one little anecdote from the day
that we had this one day conference. It was all
day long, and we had meetings and we had sessions,
and we had keynotes and speakers. But at one point
we were all together and we were doing kind of
a dance that was a healing dance, and we were
(13:33):
in the Bruce Bowling Building on the main floor, and
there were little girls outside who just happened to be
passing by and noticed what we were doing, and they
danced from outside in the streets with us, and there
was something about that that was so healing and hopeful
and beautiful. So I know we have to do this
(13:55):
again because it is about the community from the ground up,
working with the institution and we all learn from each other.
And I thought it was just I don't know what
they do in other cities, but I hope they do
something like what Berkeley did because it was a really
powerful empowering act for the community. It worked really well,
(14:16):
you know.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
And it's funny when you talk about dancing before or
during a community get together like that. I've done some
work in Africa, in both Rwanda and Kenya, and they
practically always open up a meeting with singing and dancing.
Practically every meeting is opened up that way, and it
(14:37):
loosens It loosens everybody up, particularly.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Me, absolutely, and it's healing and it brings people together,
which I think Joyce said before, absolutely a collective power
in that. So it's it's more than entertainment. I think
we've always looked at it, Ah, isn't that entertaining, But
it does so much more. And if you trace it
around the world. You'll see it in an indigenous places
(15:00):
everywhere that people use that power.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And that arts activation is who attended. You had a
whole array of different people from all parties that I mean.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
That was another beauty of it and something that I'm
beaming as I'm talking about it. You see on the
radio that you can't see, but I am. I'm glowing
and beaming and smiling at the beauty of that because
it was. We had anything from top public health officials,
representatives from the World Health Organization, the JIMIL Arts and
(15:33):
Health Lab, local physicians, local policymakers, community members, community leaders, artists,
all ages. We had anything from younger, younger kids, college
aged kids to older adults who really spoke so much
about how arts have made an impact in their lives
(15:54):
and in some ways giving themselves permission to go back
to using their arts and part of their own culture product,
their own identity that when life happens, it gets pushed aside.
We had leaders, like you said, from all over, but
made sure that on every panel that we had in
every art experience, in demonstration and immersion experience, that they
(16:14):
were the community leaders, the community artists, the community members
that were part of those and we're leading those discussions,
leading those impacts because again, they know what's best in
their community.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
At the end of the day, actually, how can we talk?
And I was a little concerned about that because can
we talk is done in the church basement and the
community comes with This was a very public, public space,
and I thought, how is this going to work? And
it worked beautifully. People got it. People understood exactly what
we were talking about about sharing our inmost secrets, in
(16:49):
our inmost desires and hopes with what would be strangers
except for it's kind of like you've created a community
just in the sharing. So that was my affirmation that
the entire day was a success, that people got it.
People danced as a way to express their pain and
their hope. It was really something. The whole day.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
We had a poster that said how have the arts
impacted your health and well being? And people put down
on sticky notes how it has and if you have
an opportunity, we'll be posting it on social media. You know,
anything from this allows me to have purpose, to have joy.
(17:31):
This has allowed me to connect with myself and others.
It has saved me from my darkest moments. I mean
those are things that, yes, we have the science and
the data to show, but those are lived experiences and
people's lives that have been impacted in positive ways.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
No, Liz, you just mentioned mental health, and I think
I'll just read a stat here that strikes me all
the time. Is over twenty percent of American adults. That's
more than fifty million people experienced some so of mental
illness every year. Mental health issues, especially post COVID, have
increased dramatically. What do you think Some of those reasons
(18:08):
are the obvious reason of the isolation of COVID, but
it seems to have exacerbated since COVID. How do you
How do you both feel about that?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Well, I know Jod probably has some very formal and
effit I think people feel like they don't have control,
and you're a sense of the loss of control, a
sense of the world seems to be going on a
really paid I don't I can't say why people have
different mental ill you know, mental issues, but I know
that for me, things are moving so fast in some days,
(18:41):
I just don't know how to get a grip to
feel a part of things, and I think that's what
leads to the isolation that really is one of the issues.
I think for those who are suffering from emotional crises.
There's probably all different kinds of reasons that we have
such a a tick uptick in mental health things right now.
(19:04):
But the idea that you don't have control and the
isolation and the anger that has been generated out in
the atmosphere, that's another thing. It's like, what the heck?
Everybody's that and we've you know, I'm not even getting
on a political level, just on general level, people are
(19:24):
feeling kind of like untethered.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
I think you said exactly some of the very thing
same things. I would say isolation leads to feeling a
lack of purpose, feeling a lack of connection. When you
don't feel connected, you don't feel like you're a part
of something, It impacts you in many different ways, from
feeling stuck in a situation and what is the future?
(19:48):
Is there a future? What am I doing? But there's
also seems to be what happens with isolation is our
ability to empathize with others really gets impacted. And I
think we do have a real societal challenge with not
only isolation and loneliness, but empathy and if you lack
that empathy because you can't put yourself in a someone's
(20:12):
situation because you've been so isolated or you just cannot connect.
It adds to those frustrations of feeling out of control
and anger versus really putting yourself in a position to
learn from different lived experiences or to feel emotions, and
that's important within that development of humanity and compassion for
(20:35):
one another.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I think that's exactly right. And the divisiveness not only
in our country, but the divisiveness and political and otherwise,
you know, with that underlying sort of feeling of anger,
and I'm sure isolation has a lot to do with it.
That's palpable. I think. I think everybody feels unsettled at
this point in time, but everybody also wants to get
(20:57):
out of this point in time. What are the and
you were talking arts activation is a way to take
a step out. What advice would you give to people
out there about how can you make that step out
of where we're at today? It's unsettled time, The world's
on fire right now. How do we we simmer it
down a little bit?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I would say, what I'm doing, and this is all
lived experience for me, is I'm really taking extra steps
to reach out to people, to reach out to my friends,
to reach out to my family. You know, we're all
moving so fast, those of us who think we're doing
things and those of us who are listening and just
slow down. And I would also suggest that when you're hurting,
(21:41):
that you tell somebody you know what I'm not. This
is not going right for me. And maybe it's someone
who can reach out to somebody, or maybe not, but
it's just the idea of reaching out. I think that's
really important. I'm going to say, joy, I'll let you
take it. But I know you need to dance. I
can't have no skills, but I do dance now more
(22:02):
than ever, even if I'm by myself, because I know
that that helps me heal. I put music on, I
sing aloud. So there are all kinds of little things
I think we can do to help ourselves.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
And I one hundred percent again agree. And again, you
don't have to be a dancer for dance to be
good for you. And I'm a perfect example of that.
I think finding ways to reconnect with self and with others,
and you know, using the arts to be able to
do that take take you know, even if it's something
(22:37):
simple that you know, for five minutes you belt out
your favorite song. That is going to increase your dopamine,
that is going to help regulate your breath patterns, that's
going to help you feel validated emotionally to some some experience,
bring up a good memory with family or friends, share
a favorite song, invite to have a quick dance break.
(23:02):
Go back to checking in and taking those risks. Find
there's so many beautiful community classes out there that community
centers are running, and if they're not helped form one.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
About volunteering in the community. Did you talk about that
in the arts activation?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Absolutely? And really, you know, anytime that we're talking, it's
you know, there's so many, so many people have so
many skills. And again, if we get away from I
didn't go to college for it, I'm not an expert
in that. Instead say you have an expertise that is valuable.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
One of the things I think that we end up
with is the feeling of empowerment. And what Joy was
saying is that you don't feel helpless, that there is
something you can do right where you stand, right where
you are. You don't have to you know, start an organization,
you don't have to be, you know, college educated. You
can do something that makes a positive difference in this
(23:58):
world and it's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Well, and Liz, even going back to your example of
the two girls he saw dancing and came in, take
a five minute dance break on the street, because I
guarantee you're going to make someone smile. You might have
someone who joins in. Those are just like little simple
things that it's not rocket science. It may seem silly,
but can make a big impact in someone's life, including yours.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I think if I started dancing on the street, that
would create more angst.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
There's a challenge. I think we have a TikTok challenge
for you there.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Well, we could turn it into something humorous. I guess
people would look at it that way. Well, I'll just
leave you with one more question. And you've been saying
about this, but with the arts activation event, which was
a formal event and brought together so many different people
from so many different walks, how do you carry that
conversation on? Is there a plan? Did you walk away
(24:51):
saying these are the next steps.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
We're in the process of that, but there will be
continued conversations. We've already had contact with leaders from other
communities who happen to come in that day and say, hey,
how can we recommend how can we replicate this and Salem,
how can we make this unique for Quincy? How can
we be involved? Neighborhood Marching Association saying hey, next time,
we want to be included. We want to continue, but
(25:16):
we also want to have conversations now about having more
art opportunities just on Saturdays in our neighborhood. Right, So
we're working on putting continued conversations, but also not just
the conversations, but hey, highlighting and now that we know
the richer communities to say, hey, did you know this
is happening on Saturday, or did you know this is
(25:38):
happening on Monday or this program, so that we can
start supporting one another and the work that is taking
place and getting the word out to members of those communities.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Absolutely. And another thing is when you walk by that
musician who's playing that saxophone or a guitar or singing
on the street and they have that little copy, put
a little money.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
In the dollar in there, yeah for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
And smile at them. We have we are blessed in
the Boston area. You can go down Newbury Street on
weekends and see, you know, artists from Berkeley who are performing.
So we have art people the city sings sometimes. You know,
support that and really get involved in that and you'll
be moving things along.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Well. We've been talking to Reverend Liz Walker and Joy
Allen of Berkeley College of Music. Thank you both so much.
That was a very rich and enjoying conversation. Thank you
so much. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Thank you both.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Well, that's all for this week. I'm Mike Christian inviting
you to join us again next week on What's at Risk.
Also check out our podcast at Wbznewsradio dot iHeart dot
com What's on your Mind? Send us your thoughts, comments
and questions to What's at Risk at gmail dot com.
(27:02):
That's one word, What's at Risk at gmail dot com.
Thank you. A big thank you to our producer, Ken
Carberry of Chart Productions
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