August 17, 2024 • 27 mins
Tom Rush legendary folk musician and advisory board member for the Folk Americana Roots Hall of Fame, talks about his 60+ year career in music, his new album, and keen observations around the FARHOF inaugural class of inductees.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome back to What's at Risk. I'm Mike Christian. For
the next couple of weeks, we'll continue to showcase Boston's
Folk Americana Roots Hall of Fame, otherwise known as Farhoff,
and its inaugural class of inductees. Located in the world
(00:24):
famous and historic Wang Theater in Boston. Varhoff celebrates the
history of Folk Americana and roots music through displays, memorabilia, artifacts,
multimedia lectures, concerts, and special curated exhibits from the museum collective.
Through education and music, Varhoff also helps us understand our
(00:47):
common history, appreciate our differences, and become more open minded,
engaged citizens. Tom Rush's impact on the American music scene
has been profound. He helped shape the folk revival in
the sixties and the Renaissance of the eighties and nineties,
his music having left its stamp on generations of artists.
(01:09):
His early recordings introduced the world to the work of
Joni Mitchell, Jackson Brown, and James Taylor. Taylor told Rolling
Stone Tom was not only one of my early heroes,
but also one of my main influences. Tom is also
on the advisory board for Farhoff Today. Tom lives in Massachusetts.
When he's not touring, his voice has grown even richer
(01:31):
and more melodic in his music, Like fine wine has
matured and ripened in the blending of traditional and modern influences.
He's written a number of new songs. He's doing what
he loves and what audiences love him for, writing and
playing passionately, tenderly knitting together the musical traditions and talents
(01:54):
of our time. We're honored to have Tom Rush here
as our guest today. Tom, how you.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Doing Living the dream?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Mike Live in the dream, But thank you so much
for joining us. You know, we're talking about the Folk
Americana Roots Hall of Fame to some extent, but we
also wanted to talk about you and your career. I
thought maybe for our listeners would be great if you
could tell them a little bit about your background and
mostly Coolear early influences were in music. I know you've
(02:37):
been in the music life for a long time, so
great to hear that.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yes I have.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I've decided that twenty twenty four is actually my sixty
third annual farewell.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Tour, and that's astounding, and I'm it's pretty good. I
saw that, Did I see that you performed at Symphony
Hall in nineteen fifty eight.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I'll take your word for it.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I've played there many times over the years. I don't
know the eight, but that sounds if it was fifty eight,
it actually would have been with the Grouten School Choir
or the Groten School. Yeah, that's probably what that was.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Well, nonetheless, still you don't have to overqualify it. You're
still there in nineteen fifty eight. That's a pretty good.
That's a pretty good and you're still on the road.
You're still doing it.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
That's awesome, still doing it, still having a lot of
fun doing it. I'd love playing for people and seeing
no reason to not do that. Basically, my job is
to have fun. It's about that's about as good as
it gets.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, and you make it fun for everyone else too.
I've seen you play a couple of.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Times, well hopefully hopefully so.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah. So you've been you've been at the forefront of
the folk world for a long time. How'd you get
started and who were some of your early influences.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Well, going way way back, Paul Robes and my my
parents had some Paul Robes and seventy eights, and I
just at a very early age Decaturday. I wanted to
sing just like Paul Robesen, but my voice hadn't changed
yet and he was an operatic baritone, so that didn't
work out well.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
And then I learned to play the guitar, and I
wanted to.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Be a rock star because this was the late fifties
when all the Elvis and the Everly Brothers and Chuck
Berry and Fats Domino were, you know, at the top
of the charts. That didn't work out well either. And
then I heard a Josh White recording and that actually
turned me totally around because I had never heard a
guitar played like that. I never heard songs like that,
(04:38):
and that's where I got introduced to folk music. But
then when I got to Cambridge, there was this to
go to college. I got there was this really hot
folk scene going on, and I was told no, no, no,
Josh White is commercial. We want ethnic, We want people
who live in a cabin in the woods and built
their own instrument. I got kind of swept up into that.
(05:02):
There was a little bit of irony there, Mike with
a bunch of Harvard students sitting around singing about how
tough it was in the coal mines, but we figured
we could make up with sincerity what we lacked and authenticity.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Now you had some Your first album actually had some
moody Guthrie ballads on it, didn't it. Maybe San Francisco
Bay Blues, which maybe was Jesse Fuller. Yeah, I remember
that album.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah it did.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
I remember actually reading somewhere that Arlow Arlow Guthrie said
he first heard his father's songs on my recordings, which
was a bit odd, but yeah, I was. I was
doing traditional folk for quite a while. Finally, around the
time of the Circle Game album, I got more into
the singer songwriter side of things.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
A Circle Game actually was.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
The introduced Joni Mitchell, James Taylor, and Jackson Brown to
the public.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
They hadn't been recorded.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Before, and that was Urge for Going was the song
that you had on that right, Jerge for Going.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
And Circle Game and another one called ten Angel. There
were three Joni songs, Got It?
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Got It? How did you just out of curiosity, because
that would put you right at the forefront of sort
of that singer songwriter era. How did you find those
free Wood are now iconic artists.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I was actually accused by Rolling Stone of ushering in
the singer songwriter era. They never proved anything. I was
never indicted, no.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Pictures, no.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Jony.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I met in a club in Detroit, Michigan. She came in,
I was playing there. I played there for two weeks
every summer. She just started writing songs. Came in and
asked the boss if she could do a quick guest
set so I could hear some of her songs, maybe
record them. Got up and did four tunes, the last
of which was the Urge for Going, and just totally
(06:54):
knocked my socks off. And that was all the songs
she had at that moment. But I asked her for more,
and she said, sent me a tape. A few weeks
later that ended. She actually apologized on the tape, apologized
for the upcoming tune. Just finished writing this is not
much good. I'm so embarrassed here it is. It was
the circle game.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I remember hearing urch were going. I thought you wrote it. Actually,
for a long time.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I was going to I was going to write it.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
She beats you to it, me to it. So you're
on the board of Advisors for the Folk Americana Roots
Hall of Fame. We call it Farhoff for short, and
the induction ceremony is this week for the inaugural class
of inductees, and it's pretty much what you would expect,
(07:40):
sort of a who's who of fifties, sixties and seventies musicians,
although I believe Paul Robeson and Josh Whide are both
on that list if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Big main influences right there.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. What'd you think of the of
the choices? What was your first impression when you saw that?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
I thought it was a great, a great lineup, especially
because they they included some non performers like Betsy Siggins,
who had a lot to do with the whole folks
scene back in the club forty seven days, and she'll
be she'll be given a short short talk somewhere during
(08:19):
the during the ceremonies. But no, I think it was
I think it's a great lineup. And they've got people
that are descended from or related to some of the
artists who you know can't be there because they're dead
or otherwise.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
You know, do you think I think that some of
Leadbelly's relatives will be there going way back right.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I'm looking forward to meeting them. I know Josh White Junior,
I considered to be a friend and a colleague, worked
with him on stage several times in the past.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, that's great. I was talking to Don Wise, who
I know you would know. He's also on the board
of advisors for far Off and he's worked with many
of those artists and many many great artists like The
Stones and Dwan, Wayne Shorter. You can the list is long.
But he said, the thing that unites all of these
artists is that they understand the value of storytelling. What
(09:15):
do you think about that.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Well, I think that's he's absolutely right about that. I
learned at an early age, playing at the Club forty seven,
that if I tell a story and he can get
the audience engaged, they're much more likely to like the
song I'm about to do. So I tell I tell
a lot of stories, and I regard the songs as stories. Actually,
(09:38):
you know, in almost every case it's a story being
put to music. Because we're we love stories. You know,
that goes back thousands of years. Stories hold us together.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
For sure, and I think our history is often told
through songs. Yeah, you know, that goes all the way back. Also,
especially folk songs.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, folks songs to me I'm a bit of a
stickler here from a literary background, but folk music, that's
songs that were nobody wrote songs like Barbarie Allen that
just every village had a different version of it. None
of them was the correct version, and they would evolve
over time. If you couldn't remember the third verse of
(10:21):
the song, your grandmother taught you, you'd maybe make up
a replacement verse, and if it was good enough, maybe
your kids would remember it. It was kind of musical Derwinism.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
When you think about songwriting and your songwriter and you've
written some memorable songs, no regrets to me comes to mind.
Where did those songs come from? I've heard many artists
say many different things, But where do they come from?
I can't write a song.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
You could, Sure you could, You just have to. You
have to give it a try and then try again
and try again.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I should have said a good song.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Well, I'm still working on getting close. I'm getting closer.
I've got a new album that just came out that
I wrote. All the songs on. A couple of them
go way back. One goes back over fifty years, and
one I wrote for my daughter when she was a baby.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
She's now twenty five.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Anyway, they all come from different places, and I actually,
for the most part, can't remember writing the song. I
think it's a right brain left brain thing, the right
brain being the creative side and the left brain being
more administrative.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
And when I was actually disciplined and.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Trying to do it right, I would get up in
the morning and before I was really awake, I would
start trying to write, just play the guitar and whatever
came into my head. I'd scribble it down, and then
after the third cup of coffee, the editor would show up.
The left brain would kick in and I'd start saying, well,
that line sucks, but that one's pretty good, and it
kind of goes with this other one over here.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
No regrets you mentioned.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
It's probably the song of my It has been recorded
the most by other It is the song of mine
that's been recorded the most by other artists. I just
learned that Harry Belafani did it. I didn't know that,
but you two did it, and Emmy Lou Harris has
a really pretty version.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Waylon Jennings recorded it on and on and on.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
But that one, it's about the end, folks of a
long love affair where the guy is saying, I have
no regrets, there's no tears, goodbye, I don't want we
don't want to get back together. We'd only cry again
and say goodbye again. That tune, I do remember where
it came from. I was deeply enamored of a young
lady named Jill Lumpkin who came up from New York
(12:40):
City to Cambridge and spent the weekend with me. And
I'd never spent that much time with anybody before. And
I took her out to Logan Airport on Monday morning,
put her on a plane, and it felt strange walking
away alone. And I went back to my apartment and
wrote the song from the perspective of a long love
affair picking up instead of a hot weekend. And in
(13:02):
fact it did in fact come true. Over the some
years later, we did part company and it was okay,
it was great.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Will it lasted right?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Well, at least you had the song.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
In anticipation put my first.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Two kids through college. That song did.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah, there you go, Well you're really that's a wonderful song.
I'm all kidding aside, I have to say, you know
another thing that I see that runs through all these inductees,
is their their focus on cultural impacts, social issues, equality, change,
you know, socially Jone bias that social issues loom larger
than the music. What are your thoughts about that? Why
(13:40):
do you think? And in particularly in this group of inductees,
there's there's a large maybe even a majority of them
have been well known not just for their music, but
for other things doing good in the world.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
And I and I applaud that. I for my own part,
I never took the social issues on stage. I try
to avoid that because my feeling was that I want
my shows to be a little bit of a vacation
from whatever's bothering you, so I don't get political on stage.
I did, do you know, benefit concerts and showed up
at rallies and stuff like that supporting the causes that,
(14:17):
you know, at least in my mind, were pretty pretty obvious,
the right side of things, you know, equality, and but
I never took it on stage. And I'm actually wondering, Mike,
what where where are those songs now? You know, when
there's so much going on that needs to be needs
to be held up to the light. Why why are
(14:37):
the younger generation not writing those kind of songs and
taking those positions.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, I think that's a great point, and I never
really even thought about it that way. I think I
think the younger generation of musicians, there's some great talent there.
I don't have to tell you because you've spent almost
your whole career finding finding great young talent. But I
think those iconic songs that really express what's going on
in the world. You're probably right.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, it's a mystery.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
You. You mentioned Bessie Seggins in Club forty seven, which
was an amazing place. Did you You played there when
you were young before it became pass ran.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
The Club forty seven.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yeah, and it was an amazing place, partly because they
not only hosted the kids, myself included, but they also
brought in the legends and you could sit in this
little eighty seat room and listen to Maybelle Carter, the
Carter Family, Flat and Scrugs played there. Bill Monroe played
there on and on a lot of the old blues
(15:37):
guys played there. And part of the remarkable thing to me,
you know, as a beginner, was that you could go
up to these legends and ask them how do you
do that thing you do? And they would, they would
tell you, they'd show you. They were very approachable for
the most part, not one hundred percent, but for the
most part you could really chat with them and ask
(15:59):
them questions.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
It was very cool.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
You sort of replicated that down through the years, and
you have a a it was it called a Club
forty seven series or something like that. Yes, showcased new musicians.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
They still show up from time to time, and the
theme of my Club forty seven shows is basically having
a couple of well known artists and a couple of
newcomers who are brilliant. You've never heard of them, but
they'll knock your socks off, and it's a lot of fun.
I was doing a series at Symphony Hall actually every
between Christmas and New Years every year for about five
(16:34):
or six years.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I got in.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
There because Symphony Hall was closed between Christmas and New
Year's because everybody knew that nobody goes out between Christmas
and New Year's. And they finally allowed me to have
one night there and sold it out to my surprise,
to everybody's surprise, and then I was selling out three
nights in a row by the end of it. And
finally the Boston Pop said wait a minute. People do
(16:58):
go up between Christmas and New Year, and they started
booking that entire week for themselves, so I was locked out.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Who are some of the artists that you showcased in
that Club forty seven.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Nancy Griffith, you know, was a newcomer, Sean Colvin was
a newcomer, a lot of the Baiez played, Bonnie Ray
played Taj mahal on and on and on.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
It was.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
I've got a couple of pages of Symphony Hall Club
forty seven guests. But I actually ended up owning the
name Club forty seven because when I did the first
show it was it was actually I think the third
the third year in I decided I wanted to do
a Club forty seven reunion and invite Biez and all
(17:43):
the folks I just mentioned, And my lawyer said, do
you have permission to use the name? And I said, well,
I wouldn't know who to ask. He came back and
he said the name is unencumbered, and if I were you,
I would encumber it. The Club forty seven that location
is now Club Passing, which is a wonderful organization. Yeah,
but not genetically related. Club forty seven closed down. It
(18:05):
was vacant. The building was vacant for eighteen months or
two years. It was a ducaca's headquarters for a while,
campaign headquarters.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Oh interesting.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Then Bob and Ray and donaland showed up and opened
the club, opened the Club pas Seene. And they would
actually get very annoyed if you came down the steps
and said, is this.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
The Club forty seven? No, this is a pass em.
They were very irritated by the Club forty seven.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Well, if you get if you want to find something
to do, you know, a little later in your career,
you can just reopen the Club forty seven, can't There
you go?
Speaker 3 (18:37):
There you go with Passim is Passim is a fabulous
organization and play you know, has the same sort of music,
the same sort of mission as the Club forty seven did. So.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Your friend Joe Spalding, who's the CEO longtime CEO of
the Box Center of the Wang Theater and also quite frankly,
the founder of Farhoff Folk American Roots Hall of Fame.
It was his sprain child and he's wanting to put
it together and assembled everything, and I think it's a brilliant,
brilliant move on his part. But he always says, music
(19:09):
and the arts bring us together and make us a
civilized society. What are you What are your thoughts about that?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Well, I think I think he's absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
I mean, it goes goes way way back in our history,
you know, sitting around the fire and the jungle, playing
drums for each other, and you know, it's it's not
something that we've made up recently.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
It's definitely a unifying, unifying thing, particularly in a world
like we have today. Down through the years, the world
has often a bit like this, but we could use
we could use that music to make us more civilized
society right now, I think we can hope.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
So, you have a new album out. You alluded to
it before. It's called Gardens Old Flowers New. I love
the name.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
According to my producer, I'm the old garden and the
new songs are the new flower.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
But it's a line.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
It's a line that actually appears and two of the
songs on the album, uh one for one that I
was writing for my daughter when she was a baby,
seeing his playing in the garden, and this garden's old.
The flower is new, meaning watching your child learn about
the world is something that's happened millions of times, but
each time is different. The garden being watching your child
(20:24):
is old, but the child and what she's experiencing is
new every time.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Matt Nakoa, who's been my accompanist for about ten years now,
is an absolutely brilliant musician and turns in turns out
to be a brilliant record producer as well. I think
he just got tired of hearing me talk about, well,
maybe someday we'll make an album, and he hired a
studio and booked some brilliant players and next thing I know,
(20:50):
we're I'm having the time of my life in this
converted barn in Connecticut. I'm very very pleased with it
available at the time, rushed folks. The other thing I've
been up to, Mike, is when the pandemic shut down
all the shows, I started an online series called Rockport Sundays,
(21:11):
and again it's available at tom Rush dot com. But
it's about a fifteen minute video clip that we post
every Sunday. They stay up for eight weeks. You don't
have to watch them on Sunday, but it's usually me
and a guest telling some stories and each singing a
song and that's it for this week. But Tom Paxson
and Jonathan Edwards and a bunch of my old buddies
(21:32):
have been guests.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
But also a.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Bunch of kids that I had never heard of even,
who are absolutely brilliant. So it's a good way again
of helping introduce new talent to a wider audience.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah, that's great. Did anybody strike you any of these
new musicians coming up? Anybody that you are particularly struck by.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Well, Matt mccoaugh I mentioned as my accompanist. He's got
his own career going, Matt. If this was if this
is forty years ago, Mike, he would be playing stadiums,
and I'm hoping when he does play stadiums he lets
me open the shows. Yes, but he's he's got his
own career building up seth Glear is another guy who's
(22:18):
occasionally my accompanist, who is a brilliant player. But there's
a lot of great, great music out there. I think
going actually going to club pass see is the best
way to hear some of those folks.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, there's no question. I went to the Focalion conference
a few weeks ago in Kansas City and saw a
bunch of people I never heard of. As you said,
and some of them just blew me away. Yeah, incredible.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah, it's very, very hard to get to get started
these days.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, I'm very lucky in that I had.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
When I started out, you didn't exist if you didn't
have a record contract, because the record company was what
got you on the radio and on TV and in
the newspapers and so forth. Nowadays it's all on the internet,
and the record companies have become kind of irrelevant, and
any kid with a laptop can make music in their
(23:12):
bedroom and put it up on YouTube. And most of
it's terrible, but some of it's brilliant.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
And the way artists make money these days is touring,
which was exactly the opposite of when I started going
to see music in the sixties.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Well, it's harder and harder.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
You know, if you get a thousand plays on Spotify,
you get paid something like a penny, So it's tough.
Especially the rationale as well, that just will get people
come into your concerts. But what if you're just a
songwriter and don't do concerts, you're kind of out of luck.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Artists still need good songs, yep, songwriter profession is completely dead.
Yet well listen, Tom, it's been a delightful talking to you.
I think your next steps here or did it go
out on tour? If I'm not mistaken, they're keeping you so, they're.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Keeping me very busy, which I enjoyed. I enjoyed the
travel less and less, but the time on stage is
really a treat for me and hopefully for the audience.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Well, listen, I wish you all the best time. Thank
you so much for joining us. We'll have this as
part of the Barhoff series of interviews, I think in
the next few weeks.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Thanks for including me.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Mike all right man, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
It's not a.
Speaker 6 (25:11):
Bass back.
Speaker 5 (25:31):
To back and says that ballot.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Well, that's all for this week. I'm Mike Christian inviting
you to join us again next week on What's at Risk.
Also check out our podcast at Wbznewsradio dot iHeart dot
com what's.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
On your mind?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Send us your thoughts, comments and questions to What's at
Risk at gmail dot com. That's one word, What's at
Risk at gmail dot com. Thank you. A big thank
you to our producer, Ken Carberry of Chart Productions.
Welcome back to What's at Risk. I'm Mike Christian. For
the next couple of weeks, we'll continue to showcase Boston's
Folk Americana Roots Hall of Fame, otherwise known as Farhoff,
and its inaugural class of inductees. Located in the world
(00:24):
famous and historic Wang Theater in Boston. Varhoff celebrates the
history of Folk Americana and roots music through displays, memorabilia, artifacts,
multimedia lectures, concerts, and special curated exhibits from the museum collective.
Through education and music, Varhoff also helps us understand our
(00:47):
common history, appreciate our differences, and become more open minded,
engaged citizens. Tom Rush's impact on the American music scene
has been profound. He helped shape the folk revival in
the sixties and the Renaissance of the eighties and nineties,
his music having left its stamp on generations of artists.
(01:09):
His early recordings introduced the world to the work of
Joni Mitchell, Jackson Brown, and James Taylor. Taylor told Rolling
Stone Tom was not only one of my early heroes,
but also one of my main influences. Tom is also
on the advisory board for Farhoff Today. Tom lives in Massachusetts.
When he's not touring, his voice has grown even richer
(01:31):
and more melodic in his music, Like fine wine has
matured and ripened in the blending of traditional and modern influences.
He's written a number of new songs. He's doing what
he loves and what audiences love him for, writing and
playing passionately, tenderly knitting together the musical traditions and talents
(01:54):
of our time. We're honored to have Tom Rush here
as our guest today. Tom, how you.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Doing Living the dream?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Mike Live in the dream, But thank you so much
for joining us. You know, we're talking about the Folk
Americana Roots Hall of Fame to some extent, but we
also wanted to talk about you and your career. I
thought maybe for our listeners would be great if you
could tell them a little bit about your background and
mostly Coolear early influences were in music. I know you've
(02:37):
been in the music life for a long time, so
great to hear that.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yes I have.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I've decided that twenty twenty four is actually my sixty
third annual farewell.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Tour, and that's astounding, and I'm it's pretty good. I
saw that, Did I see that you performed at Symphony
Hall in nineteen fifty eight.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I'll take your word for it.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I've played there many times over the years. I don't
know the eight, but that sounds if it was fifty eight,
it actually would have been with the Grouten School Choir
or the Groten School. Yeah, that's probably what that was.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Well, nonetheless, still you don't have to overqualify it. You're
still there in nineteen fifty eight. That's a pretty good.
That's a pretty good and you're still on the road.
You're still doing it.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
That's awesome, still doing it, still having a lot of
fun doing it. I'd love playing for people and seeing
no reason to not do that. Basically, my job is
to have fun. It's about that's about as good as
it gets.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, and you make it fun for everyone else too.
I've seen you play a couple of.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Times, well hopefully hopefully so.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah. So you've been you've been at the forefront of
the folk world for a long time. How'd you get
started and who were some of your early influences.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Well, going way way back, Paul Robes and my my
parents had some Paul Robes and seventy eights, and I
just at a very early age Decaturday. I wanted to
sing just like Paul Robesen, but my voice hadn't changed
yet and he was an operatic baritone, so that didn't
work out well.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
And then I learned to play the guitar, and I
wanted to.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Be a rock star because this was the late fifties
when all the Elvis and the Everly Brothers and Chuck
Berry and Fats Domino were, you know, at the top
of the charts. That didn't work out well either. And
then I heard a Josh White recording and that actually
turned me totally around because I had never heard a
guitar played like that. I never heard songs like that,
(04:38):
and that's where I got introduced to folk music. But
then when I got to Cambridge, there was this to
go to college. I got there was this really hot
folk scene going on, and I was told no, no, no,
Josh White is commercial. We want ethnic, We want people
who live in a cabin in the woods and built
their own instrument. I got kind of swept up into that.
(05:02):
There was a little bit of irony there, Mike with
a bunch of Harvard students sitting around singing about how
tough it was in the coal mines, but we figured
we could make up with sincerity what we lacked and authenticity.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Now you had some Your first album actually had some
moody Guthrie ballads on it, didn't it. Maybe San Francisco
Bay Blues, which maybe was Jesse Fuller. Yeah, I remember
that album.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah it did.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
I remember actually reading somewhere that Arlow Arlow Guthrie said
he first heard his father's songs on my recordings, which
was a bit odd, but yeah, I was. I was
doing traditional folk for quite a while. Finally, around the
time of the Circle Game album, I got more into
the singer songwriter side of things.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
A Circle Game actually was.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
The introduced Joni Mitchell, James Taylor, and Jackson Brown to
the public.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
They hadn't been recorded.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Before, and that was Urge for Going was the song
that you had on that right, Jerge for Going.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
And Circle Game and another one called ten Angel. There
were three Joni songs, Got It?
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Got It? How did you just out of curiosity, because
that would put you right at the forefront of sort
of that singer songwriter era. How did you find those
free Wood are now iconic artists.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I was actually accused by Rolling Stone of ushering in
the singer songwriter era. They never proved anything. I was
never indicted, no.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Pictures, no.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Jony.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I met in a club in Detroit, Michigan. She came in,
I was playing there. I played there for two weeks
every summer. She just started writing songs. Came in and
asked the boss if she could do a quick guest
set so I could hear some of her songs, maybe
record them. Got up and did four tunes, the last
of which was the Urge for Going, and just totally
(06:54):
knocked my socks off. And that was all the songs
she had at that moment. But I asked her for more,
and she said, sent me a tape. A few weeks
later that ended. She actually apologized on the tape, apologized
for the upcoming tune. Just finished writing this is not
much good. I'm so embarrassed here it is. It was
the circle game.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I remember hearing urch were going. I thought you wrote it. Actually,
for a long time.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I was going to I was going to write it.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
She beats you to it, me to it. So you're
on the board of Advisors for the Folk Americana Roots
Hall of Fame. We call it Farhoff for short, and
the induction ceremony is this week for the inaugural class
of inductees, and it's pretty much what you would expect,
(07:40):
sort of a who's who of fifties, sixties and seventies musicians,
although I believe Paul Robeson and Josh Whide are both
on that list if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Big main influences right there.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. What'd you think of the of
the choices? What was your first impression when you saw that?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
I thought it was a great, a great lineup, especially
because they they included some non performers like Betsy Siggins,
who had a lot to do with the whole folks
scene back in the club forty seven days, and she'll
be she'll be given a short short talk somewhere during
(08:19):
the during the ceremonies. But no, I think it was
I think it's a great lineup. And they've got people
that are descended from or related to some of the
artists who you know can't be there because they're dead
or otherwise.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
You know, do you think I think that some of
Leadbelly's relatives will be there going way back right.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I'm looking forward to meeting them. I know Josh White Junior,
I considered to be a friend and a colleague, worked
with him on stage several times in the past.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, that's great. I was talking to Don Wise, who
I know you would know. He's also on the board
of advisors for far Off and he's worked with many
of those artists and many many great artists like The
Stones and Dwan, Wayne Shorter. You can the list is long.
But he said, the thing that unites all of these
artists is that they understand the value of storytelling. What
(09:15):
do you think about that.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Well, I think that's he's absolutely right about that. I
learned at an early age, playing at the Club forty seven,
that if I tell a story and he can get
the audience engaged, they're much more likely to like the
song I'm about to do. So I tell I tell
a lot of stories, and I regard the songs as stories. Actually,
(09:38):
you know, in almost every case it's a story being
put to music. Because we're we love stories. You know,
that goes back thousands of years. Stories hold us together.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
For sure, and I think our history is often told
through songs. Yeah, you know, that goes all the way back. Also,
especially folk songs.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, folks songs to me I'm a bit of a
stickler here from a literary background, but folk music, that's
songs that were nobody wrote songs like Barbarie Allen that
just every village had a different version of it. None
of them was the correct version, and they would evolve
over time. If you couldn't remember the third verse of
(10:21):
the song, your grandmother taught you, you'd maybe make up
a replacement verse, and if it was good enough, maybe
your kids would remember it. It was kind of musical Derwinism.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
When you think about songwriting and your songwriter and you've
written some memorable songs, no regrets to me comes to mind.
Where did those songs come from? I've heard many artists
say many different things, But where do they come from?
I can't write a song.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
You could, Sure you could, You just have to. You
have to give it a try and then try again
and try again.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I should have said a good song.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Well, I'm still working on getting close. I'm getting closer.
I've got a new album that just came out that
I wrote. All the songs on. A couple of them
go way back. One goes back over fifty years, and
one I wrote for my daughter when she was a baby.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
She's now twenty five.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Anyway, they all come from different places, and I actually,
for the most part, can't remember writing the song. I
think it's a right brain left brain thing, the right
brain being the creative side and the left brain being
more administrative.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
And when I was actually disciplined and.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Trying to do it right, I would get up in
the morning and before I was really awake, I would
start trying to write, just play the guitar and whatever
came into my head. I'd scribble it down, and then
after the third cup of coffee, the editor would show up.
The left brain would kick in and I'd start saying, well,
that line sucks, but that one's pretty good, and it
kind of goes with this other one over here.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
No regrets you mentioned.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
It's probably the song of my It has been recorded
the most by other It is the song of mine
that's been recorded the most by other artists. I just
learned that Harry Belafani did it. I didn't know that,
but you two did it, and Emmy Lou Harris has
a really pretty version.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Waylon Jennings recorded it on and on and on.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
But that one, it's about the end, folks of a
long love affair where the guy is saying, I have
no regrets, there's no tears, goodbye, I don't want we
don't want to get back together. We'd only cry again
and say goodbye again. That tune, I do remember where
it came from. I was deeply enamored of a young
lady named Jill Lumpkin who came up from New York
(12:40):
City to Cambridge and spent the weekend with me. And
I'd never spent that much time with anybody before. And
I took her out to Logan Airport on Monday morning,
put her on a plane, and it felt strange walking
away alone. And I went back to my apartment and
wrote the song from the perspective of a long love
affair picking up instead of a hot weekend. And in
(13:02):
fact it did in fact come true. Over the some
years later, we did part company and it was okay,
it was great.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Will it lasted right?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Well, at least you had the song.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
In anticipation put my first.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Two kids through college. That song did.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah, there you go, Well you're really that's a wonderful song.
I'm all kidding aside, I have to say, you know
another thing that I see that runs through all these inductees,
is their their focus on cultural impacts, social issues, equality, change,
you know, socially Jone bias that social issues loom larger
than the music. What are your thoughts about that? Why
(13:40):
do you think? And in particularly in this group of inductees,
there's there's a large maybe even a majority of them
have been well known not just for their music, but
for other things doing good in the world.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
And I and I applaud that. I for my own part,
I never took the social issues on stage. I try
to avoid that because my feeling was that I want
my shows to be a little bit of a vacation
from whatever's bothering you, so I don't get political on stage.
I did, do you know, benefit concerts and showed up
at rallies and stuff like that supporting the causes that,
(14:17):
you know, at least in my mind, were pretty pretty obvious,
the right side of things, you know, equality, and but
I never took it on stage. And I'm actually wondering, Mike,
what where where are those songs now? You know, when
there's so much going on that needs to be needs
to be held up to the light. Why why are
(14:37):
the younger generation not writing those kind of songs and
taking those positions.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, I think that's a great point, and I never
really even thought about it that way. I think I
think the younger generation of musicians, there's some great talent there.
I don't have to tell you because you've spent almost
your whole career finding finding great young talent. But I
think those iconic songs that really express what's going on
in the world. You're probably right.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, it's a mystery.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
You. You mentioned Bessie Seggins in Club forty seven, which
was an amazing place. Did you You played there when
you were young before it became pass ran.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
The Club forty seven.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yeah, and it was an amazing place, partly because they
not only hosted the kids, myself included, but they also
brought in the legends and you could sit in this
little eighty seat room and listen to Maybelle Carter, the
Carter Family, Flat and Scrugs played there. Bill Monroe played
there on and on a lot of the old blues
(15:37):
guys played there. And part of the remarkable thing to me,
you know, as a beginner, was that you could go
up to these legends and ask them how do you
do that thing you do? And they would, they would
tell you, they'd show you. They were very approachable for
the most part, not one hundred percent, but for the
most part you could really chat with them and ask
(15:59):
them questions.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
It was very cool.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
You sort of replicated that down through the years, and
you have a a it was it called a Club
forty seven series or something like that. Yes, showcased new musicians.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
They still show up from time to time, and the
theme of my Club forty seven shows is basically having
a couple of well known artists and a couple of
newcomers who are brilliant. You've never heard of them, but
they'll knock your socks off, and it's a lot of fun.
I was doing a series at Symphony Hall actually every
between Christmas and New Years every year for about five
(16:34):
or six years.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I got in.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
There because Symphony Hall was closed between Christmas and New
Year's because everybody knew that nobody goes out between Christmas
and New Year's. And they finally allowed me to have
one night there and sold it out to my surprise,
to everybody's surprise, and then I was selling out three
nights in a row by the end of it. And
finally the Boston Pop said wait a minute. People do
(16:58):
go up between Christmas and New Year, and they started
booking that entire week for themselves, so I was locked out.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Who are some of the artists that you showcased in
that Club forty seven.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Nancy Griffith, you know, was a newcomer, Sean Colvin was
a newcomer, a lot of the Baiez played, Bonnie Ray
played Taj mahal on and on and on.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
It was.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
I've got a couple of pages of Symphony Hall Club
forty seven guests. But I actually ended up owning the
name Club forty seven because when I did the first
show it was it was actually I think the third
the third year in I decided I wanted to do
a Club forty seven reunion and invite Biez and all
(17:43):
the folks I just mentioned, And my lawyer said, do
you have permission to use the name? And I said, well,
I wouldn't know who to ask. He came back and
he said the name is unencumbered, and if I were you,
I would encumber it. The Club forty seven that location
is now Club Passing, which is a wonderful organization. Yeah,
but not genetically related. Club forty seven closed down. It
(18:05):
was vacant. The building was vacant for eighteen months or
two years. It was a ducaca's headquarters for a while,
campaign headquarters.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Oh interesting.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Then Bob and Ray and donaland showed up and opened
the club, opened the Club pas Seene. And they would
actually get very annoyed if you came down the steps
and said, is this.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
The Club forty seven? No, this is a pass em.
They were very irritated by the Club forty seven.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Well, if you get if you want to find something
to do, you know, a little later in your career,
you can just reopen the Club forty seven, can't There
you go?
Speaker 3 (18:37):
There you go with Passim is Passim is a fabulous
organization and play you know, has the same sort of music,
the same sort of mission as the Club forty seven did. So.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Your friend Joe Spalding, who's the CEO longtime CEO of
the Box Center of the Wang Theater and also quite frankly,
the founder of Farhoff Folk American Roots Hall of Fame.
It was his sprain child and he's wanting to put
it together and assembled everything, and I think it's a brilliant,
brilliant move on his part. But he always says, music
(19:09):
and the arts bring us together and make us a
civilized society. What are you What are your thoughts about that?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Well, I think I think he's absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
I mean, it goes goes way way back in our history,
you know, sitting around the fire and the jungle, playing
drums for each other, and you know, it's it's not
something that we've made up recently.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
It's definitely a unifying, unifying thing, particularly in a world
like we have today. Down through the years, the world
has often a bit like this, but we could use
we could use that music to make us more civilized
society right now, I think we can hope.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
So, you have a new album out. You alluded to
it before. It's called Gardens Old Flowers New. I love
the name.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
According to my producer, I'm the old garden and the
new songs are the new flower.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
But it's a line.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
It's a line that actually appears and two of the
songs on the album, uh one for one that I
was writing for my daughter when she was a baby,
seeing his playing in the garden, and this garden's old.
The flower is new, meaning watching your child learn about
the world is something that's happened millions of times, but
each time is different. The garden being watching your child
(20:24):
is old, but the child and what she's experiencing is
new every time.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Matt Nakoa, who's been my accompanist for about ten years now,
is an absolutely brilliant musician and turns in turns out
to be a brilliant record producer as well. I think
he just got tired of hearing me talk about, well,
maybe someday we'll make an album, and he hired a
studio and booked some brilliant players and next thing I know,
(20:50):
we're I'm having the time of my life in this
converted barn in Connecticut. I'm very very pleased with it
available at the time, rushed folks. The other thing I've
been up to, Mike, is when the pandemic shut down
all the shows, I started an online series called Rockport Sundays,
(21:11):
and again it's available at tom Rush dot com. But
it's about a fifteen minute video clip that we post
every Sunday. They stay up for eight weeks. You don't
have to watch them on Sunday, but it's usually me
and a guest telling some stories and each singing a
song and that's it for this week. But Tom Paxson
and Jonathan Edwards and a bunch of my old buddies
(21:32):
have been guests.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
But also a.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Bunch of kids that I had never heard of even,
who are absolutely brilliant. So it's a good way again
of helping introduce new talent to a wider audience.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah, that's great. Did anybody strike you any of these
new musicians coming up? Anybody that you are particularly struck by.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Well, Matt mccoaugh I mentioned as my accompanist. He's got
his own career going, Matt. If this was if this
is forty years ago, Mike, he would be playing stadiums,
and I'm hoping when he does play stadiums he lets
me open the shows. Yes, but he's he's got his
own career building up seth Glear is another guy who's
(22:18):
occasionally my accompanist, who is a brilliant player. But there's
a lot of great, great music out there. I think
going actually going to club pass see is the best
way to hear some of those folks.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, there's no question. I went to the Focalion conference
a few weeks ago in Kansas City and saw a
bunch of people I never heard of. As you said,
and some of them just blew me away. Yeah, incredible.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah, it's very, very hard to get to get started
these days.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, I'm very lucky in that I had.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
When I started out, you didn't exist if you didn't
have a record contract, because the record company was what
got you on the radio and on TV and in
the newspapers and so forth. Nowadays it's all on the internet,
and the record companies have become kind of irrelevant, and
any kid with a laptop can make music in their
(23:12):
bedroom and put it up on YouTube. And most of
it's terrible, but some of it's brilliant.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
And the way artists make money these days is touring,
which was exactly the opposite of when I started going
to see music in the sixties.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Well, it's harder and harder.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
You know, if you get a thousand plays on Spotify,
you get paid something like a penny, So it's tough.
Especially the rationale as well, that just will get people
come into your concerts. But what if you're just a
songwriter and don't do concerts, you're kind of out of luck.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Artists still need good songs, yep, songwriter profession is completely dead.
Yet well listen, Tom, it's been a delightful talking to you.
I think your next steps here or did it go
out on tour? If I'm not mistaken, they're keeping you so, they're.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Keeping me very busy, which I enjoyed. I enjoyed the
travel less and less, but the time on stage is
really a treat for me and hopefully for the audience.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Well, listen, I wish you all the best time. Thank
you so much for joining us. We'll have this as
part of the Barhoff series of interviews, I think in
the next few weeks.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Thanks for including me.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Mike all right man, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
It's not a.
Speaker 6 (25:11):
Bass back.
Speaker 5 (25:31):
To back and says that ballot.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Well, that's all for this week. I'm Mike Christian inviting
you to join us again next week on What's at Risk.
Also check out our podcast at Wbznewsradio dot iHeart dot
com what's.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
On your mind?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Send us your thoughts, comments and questions to What's at
Risk at gmail dot com. That's one word, What's at
Risk at gmail dot com. Thank you. A big thank
you to our producer, Ken Carberry of Chart Productions.
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