Will The Moms Be Alright?

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is it like being a mom in twenty twenty five?

Speaker 2 (00:02):
I feel like I have multiple full time jobs. I mean,
it's super fun, but it's a lot. And there are
days where I'm like, why did I do this to myself?

Speaker 3 (00:10):
It's because, you know, one kid is one thing, but
then two kids is another thing. And I think I'm
at this stage now where I just don't have the time.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Being intentional about building a village for myself. Adopting other
moms in the parking lot, at daycare and at school.
It has worked for me. I'm just like, want to
be my friend.

Speaker 4 (00:29):
I mean to do that.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Hey, the a Fam, Welcome to Brown Ambition. I could
not be more excited to introduce you to my guests
at the Brown Table today. My mama's in crime, as
I call them. Listen, y'all kind of are like in
a secret club. You're in my secret mom podcasters club.
There's no benefits to being in this club other than
that when I am really struggling, I think about y'all,

(00:56):
but I may not like, you know, email or tie
a like let you know that I'm thinking about y'all,
but I'm like somewhere out there, Jessica and Reina are
doing the same thing, and they also probably like would
have something really encouraging to stay to me right now,
so I'll just like say it to myself. So thanks
for being the mama's friends in my head that I need.

(01:18):
I want to introduce ba Fan to Jessica Norwood. She
is one half of the podcast Sugar Daddy with her husband,
and then also Reina has a podcast. It's been going
almost as long as Brown Ambition. We're like geriatric podcasters
together Dreams and Drive the podcast. Welcome to Brown Ambition, y'all.

Speaker 4 (01:39):
Hey, many happy to be here, so catch me up.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Braina. You and I met, as you know. It's so
funny because we met once five four years ago.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
Three wellever Jeff turned two.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yeah, like three years ago, so at a birthday party
for a mutual friend, and I just remember clicking with
you and our sons were the same age, and I
was like, wow, I want to be her friend. But then,
of course, like we're both young moms, and like, of
course we were not going to be like seeing each
other all the time. Maybe of course we would talk
twice in three years, and then we went and done

(02:14):
had another baby, and then Jessica. I forget how I
met you. I think that you had reached out because
you were starting Sugar Daddy, and I think it was
more like business first. And then I met y'all in
person for the first time at a conference, so it's
just nice to get to, you know, interact with y'all
and see yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
I mean when I saw you at you know, our
Mutual Friends party, I was.

Speaker 4 (02:38):
Like, oh my god, that's Mandy from Round and Vision, right,
and I'm like, how does she know you?

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Right?

Speaker 4 (02:42):
And it was just like it's one of those like
fangirl moments. But I don't think I told you that
when I met you.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
That's so fun that's really funny. I mean you have
to be I feel like, in the niche podcasting world
to have recognized me. But we will be a you
were be a fan. It's so funny.

Speaker 4 (03:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
Because I had Tiffany on the podcast, like she was
my eighth guest on Dreams and Drive back in the day,
she was episode number eight, I think.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Wow, okay, so let's talk about that, all right. We're
both we're all three podcasters, so I really want this conversation.
I want to I want to just talk about like,
what is it like being a mom in twenty twenty five?
How are we maintaining our sanity? How are we giving
ourselves grace all of that good stuff. But y'all are
both I guess we all are to a certain extent
juggling multiple I don't know if like her career is

(03:34):
all encompassing, but like multiple hats professionally, So y'all both
work full time in corporate? Is that right for some
like big brands? Maybe they rhyme with Google and Dismount.
I don't know, whatever doesn't matter. But y'all have been
building these brand, your professional brands, while also doing the podcast.

(03:57):
So like what has that journey been for you? I'll
start with you, Jessica, Like when did you incorporate the
podcast into your journey? And like how is that all
working out?

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Now? It's the latest, Yeah, so the podcast will be
three years old in June. And I mean it's a
full time job. Like I feel like I have multiple
full time jobs, so you know, corporate nine to five
and then the podcast and trying to do the newsletter
and trying to keep up with social media and trying

(04:26):
to book guests, and I mean it's a lot. I mean,
it's super fun, but it's a lot, and there are
days where I'm like, why did I do this to myself?
And then you know, we'll get an email or we'll
get dms that are like we did this, or I
save that or I paid this off, and then it's like, okay,
well we have to keep going because it's actually working
and people are getting their money right, But it's a lot.

(04:46):
It feels like a lot.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Was it your husband pulling you along because he's a
financial planner, right, like this is his world.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
No, he's a licensed financial planner and he just wanted
to talk to me about all things money at the
end of every day, and I was It's like, booh,
I love you, but I cannot I cannot have this
conversation with you right now, Like you need a different outlet.
And so that's how the podcast came about. Because he's
not he's not a social media person. He's not just
going to put up like a fun video. He's not

(05:15):
going to dance for you. You know, he's not going to
do any of that, and so he needs a forum
where he can say all the things he needs to say.
He's very thorough and so the podcast just made sense,
and so I told him, I think we should do
a podcast, and he really liked that idea. And so
it really is the perspective of a licensed financial planner
who does this for his clients every day, and then

(05:37):
me asking all the questions that a normal person would ask,
like well, what does that actually mean? And what is
that word? Don't you know? Don't lingo me to death?
And so it's a really nice balance of his and hers,
you know, because we talk a lot about relationships and
money as well, and how do you bring that into
your your relationship, whether it's you know, an established marriage

(05:57):
or early on. But it works out really well. We
have a lot of fun with it, and y'all still
like each other like most of we do. Yeah, I mean,
you know, we have our moments, no, but we really do.
I mean I work from home, he works from home,
so my office is downstairs, his office is upstairs. We're
literally together all the time. But I still feel like
we're ships passing in the night Monday through Friday. I mean,

(06:20):
I'll see him in the kitchen, we'll pass each other
in the living room, and I'm like running to another meeting.
But yes, we do still like and love each other.
So that's a good thing.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
I love that. I'm glad for y'all. I mean, my
husband just randomly stayed home today and I was like,
why I don't I realize I don't like it. And
he came out five minutes before I hit record. He's
like shuffling around looking at recycling then and I'm like,
I'm in the middle of the house. So and he's like, oh, yeah,
what time do you go? On? Like one o'clock. I
told you that's five minutes. He's like, okay, I'm going

(06:51):
I didn't realize. I mean, I guess I did realize
that one of the things that I value so much
is just my own brain. I love my brain. I
love my thoughts, I love what ideas I have. I
love my creativity, and I just I can't be that
when I am surrounded by them, you know, the children

(07:11):
and the husband, because they take up, you know, a
lot of that space. So like, for one thing, as
a podcaster and as you know, a business person that
I've tried to do is just not feel any type
of way about claiming my brain time. I'm like, it's
not that I don't I could play with you and
I could you know, I could take you out of
daycare three days a week instead of five days a

(07:33):
week or whatever to spend more time with you. But
mommy needs more one hundred percent brain time, and.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
You're better when you get that right for them in
the long term. That's the That's the big thing Mandy
and Jessica. But I've been finally struggling with lately is
just thinking about, like how did I get here. I
don't know, if you guys are in social media, if
you've been seeing that trend like she she wouldn't know
a little. Did she know that her life change? He's
been seeing that?

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yes, I saw me.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
If I was to do that from like twenty sixteen,
right when I first started the podcast, There's so many
things that would have happened that I would have never known,
like almost nine years later, and I think motherhood for
me was like the biggest wrench in it all, only
because when I started the podcast, I was working on
another job, and like I just had so much time
to put into it. I want to say, like the

(08:20):
heydays of Dreams and driver, like twenty sixteen and twenty nineteen,
I was building.

Speaker 4 (08:24):
I was hustling.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
I was doing the Twitter parties whatever they used to
do back on Twitter. Remember probably have Twitter chats or
whatever they like.

Speaker 4 (08:30):
People would have a tigering when you show up.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
Let's watch scandal together.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah, I was doing everything I had just started trying
to do, like happy hour meetups events. And then the
pandemic happened, and by that time I was doing Dreams
and Drives solo twenty twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. Yeah, pandemic happened.
My ass got pregnant, right, so I had a pandemic baby.
I was still doing it solo, still doing the podcast independently,

(08:57):
wasn't working for anyone, and then I'm like, I'm I
need to get a real job because I have a
real baby, and you know, we need real expenses.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
Page I didn't realize. So you were one hundred percent
Dreams and Drive.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
Yeah, I was one hundred percent Dreams and Drive from
like twenty eighteen to twenty twenty one.

Speaker 4 (09:12):
I was just doing that.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
So we did have some other consulting stuff on the side,
and I had also saved a lot of money from
my prior job, so like I was able to kind
of just close.

Speaker 4 (09:22):
I was living at home number one also saving a
lot of money.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
So when I got pregnant and I just realized, like, oh,
I think I got to be a big girl now.
And so that's when, ironically I got a job through
one of my past guests on the show. She was like,
I don't know if you're looking, but they're hiring at
you know this company that rhymes with dismount, And I

(09:46):
just jumped right into it. But little did I know
I would have two kids, because you know, one kid
is one thing, but then two kids is another thing.
And I think I'm at this stage now where I
just don't.

Speaker 4 (09:55):
Have the time.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
I have the desire and I have like the willing
this and the motivation, but I just don't have the time.
And I don't think I'm at a stage where like
I'm willing to try to find more time, if that
makes sense, right, Like, I do what I can with
the time that I have. And I think for me,
I have to be okay with like growth not being

(10:17):
what I might want it to be. And that's been
the hardest thing. I think as mothers, we sacrifice so
much for our children, and I'm in this stage of
just reckoning with like what does it mean to sacrifice?
And like how long do the dreams have to be
not as big because you might not have the support right,
or you might not have the help or the village

(10:40):
or the community, like you know, we're all just going
through so much. So that's been the biggest thing. I've
also been debating about this whole like women right and
are we supposed to work? But I'm like, you know what,
back in the day, we weren't working, but we had
eighteen kids, so we were still crazy, so it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
It's like we're still gonna give me this.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
So yeah, So that's been my podcasting and motherhood journey.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Like you're talking about you don't want like you're kind
of maxed out on what you can do with your podcast,
and for you, it's like you have this job, you
got the two babies. Now, yeah, that's really fair.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
You know, my father passed away in November of last year.
He was such a huge like help for me and
my partner. That like just not having support the support
system that you want to like it, it's just a lot,
And I think it just goes into the bigger conversation
about like mothers being supported and like where's the motherhood community? Right?

(11:36):
I have friends who are mothers, but like we're all
in the same rub just trying to figure it out.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
Like I don't think I.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
Have one friend who's a mom who's like I got
this girl, Like, you know, we're all in different ways.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Just I don't want friends like that.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Does those times feel like we're just like with your
two drowning people trying to help each other and it's
like we're both going down, Like I kind of want
you to win, so let me not pull you down,
but like go ground. Yes, it's that's so real because
I think we want to be there for one another.
But you know, it's just like I said at the beginning,
you know I think about all the time, but it's

(12:12):
like I ain't about to call nobody between the hours
of like seven to nine because that is like get
drassed to school and insanity. And then like also in
the PM from like five to nine, I just and
and then it's like what sleep work?

Speaker 3 (12:25):
And then it's like I want to do something for
myself and you just you know, doing scrolling on Instagram.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, it's just a box of cereal watching.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
What's balanced, And I think that's the biggest thing. What's balanced?
How do you define balance? And then how can you be?
And you know your podcast is called Brown Ambition. What
does it mean to be a brown woman and be
ambitious and be a mother?

Speaker 2 (12:47):
It means you're.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Jessica said, it means you're going to be exhausted.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
And do we want to be exhausted? Like I know
in college I was never you know how people used
to pull all nighters. I was like, nope, I'm gonna
go take my sleep, go take myself to bed. I
was not an all nighter type of person. So I'm like,
I hate being exhausted, Like I just don't like, like,
guess I might.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Have to do you feel but I sense that, like
I'm just curious, Like I sense that you almost feel
like you feel like not guilty, but like you seem
a little bit like I feel I don't like being tired.
Is this what everyone's doing? Ew like that for me?

Speaker 4 (13:27):
I'm healthy?

Speaker 3 (13:29):
I think no, No, I think I feel guilty more.
Just like with the state of my podcast, I feel
like it could be further along if I was like
maybe being okay with being tired and still doing work.

Speaker 4 (13:44):
Does that make sense? Like at the end of the day.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
I'm like, listen, I could be on time with this schedule,
you know, have my Monday releases or you know it's
gonna be on Monday Wednesday release this week.

Speaker 4 (13:56):
Because I just don't have the time or energy.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
So I think it's more so like I'm not guilty,
but it's just like I just don't have the energy
to put towards it, and then I don't want to
be more exhausted by trying to meet the deadline of
like a Monday release. And like, the part of being
as independent podcaster is having that flexibility. And a lot

(14:19):
of people have been like, give yourself grace. You going
through so much change in these past few months, like
you need to kind of restore yourself. So it's just
balancing all of that for me.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
Honestly, Can we talk about the whole idea of support
and a village, because like, Rina, what I'm hearing is
that I'm so sorry, by the way about your dad
passing away, especially if he was helping with the caregiving.
I mean that, and he was like a go to person,
because how valuable is it to have that person who

(14:48):
you can just trust they understand things, The kids are
comfortable with them. They can drive a car, they can
do the pick up whatever. It's just like priceless gold
and plus it's your Yeah, So I'm just I'm really
sorry about that. Hey, ba fam, we got to take
a quick break, pay some bills, and we'll be right back.

(15:09):
All right, ba fam, We're back. I feel like being
intentional about building a village for myself was one of
the aspects of motherhood that I wasn't necessarily prepared for.
No one really told me about that, but it's one
of the things. It's also been most challenging to do.
But it's one of the most rewarding things that I
have done. Is like invest in close relationships, like physically close.

(15:36):
My mom is in Saint Louis, my sister's in Wisconsin,
my dad's in Georgia. I got no family really here
other than my in laws. And like they don't drive.
They only live forty minutes away, but they don't drive.
You're not exactly very helpful when they come. It's kind
of like having extra babies to take care of. But
I've had to reach across to neighbors, like actual on

(15:57):
my street, my neighbors have become getting to know them
has been a huge source of you know, comfort and support.
And then just like adopting other moms in the parking
lot at daycare and at school has has worked for me,
I'll just adopt. I'm just like, want to be my friend.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
I mean to do that. I like that. I like that.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Not saying that I have any kind of perfect village,
but if it were not for those relationships, the few
good ones that I have made since I, you know,
became a mom and isolated myself because it was my
decision to move to the suburbs and away from my
family and all of that has been really important for me.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
So I want how would they help?

Speaker 4 (16:43):
You? Like how?

Speaker 3 (16:44):
I guess it's like, what's the what's the benefit so
I can be more motivated.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, I'll give you one example today literally today was
a school it's a school holiday or a day off
that was not on the calendar. Because my so, my
my one of my sister wife friends here, her name
is Jess. She and I both give the school calendar.
We're two of our assistants and are like put all
these dates on our calendar so we know what's coming up.

(17:10):
This was like an add on and last week both
of us were like, what did you see this? Did
you see that? And we and she chose the day
camp that we were going to send We have two
boys the same age to go to the same school, and
thank god, they're really good friends too, So she chose
the camp that we were going to send them to.
She found it, and then I just paid my one

(17:31):
hundred dollars because like, of course is one hundred dollars,
and her husband came and picked up my son this
morning and took him to the camp because of course,
the hours are stupid. It's not like nine to five,
it's nine to twelve for a half day, and nine
to three is somehow a full day. And then I'm
going to pick them up at three o'clock and I'm

(17:51):
going to bring both boys here and they're going to
play and entertain each other, and then later on she
might pick them up. But that's one of the instances
like we're in it together and we plan things together,
and we've built that much trust. We've really invested time
in each other's kids so that they love us too.
So if I have to, you know, and last week
my baby was sick, Remy was sick, and I was like,

(18:13):
can Rio, my older son. Can he go home with
Carey today and just spend the evening with y'all because
I got to deal with sick baby. I don't want
Rio in the mix. He's going to be neglected and
be on the phone for four hours. So I mean
that to me, is like a real benefit to have
that kind of relationship.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
And they're in close proximity, right.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, less than ten minutes drive because they go they're
in the same school district. So that's what I mean
by adopting a mom in the parking lot. I just
was like, hey, you other black mom, there's not that
many of us. You want to be my friend? And
I've done that a few times, and I mean Jess
was a good example of She was so happy that
I did that. And I remember I invited her to

(18:54):
the park with another friend that I had met in
the parking lot, and she gave me the biggest and
longest hug when we met at the park that day,
and we didn't really know each other, and she's just like,
thank you so much for asking me to come, Like,
you don't know, we moved here, you know, not that
long ago. And she needed a village too, and she
has so many friends, so many friends. She went to

(19:17):
a big school, so they have a huge network. But
within five ten minutes away, no, like, where did that
support for each other?

Speaker 2 (19:26):
I think being able to like meet up at the park,
go for a walk, let the kids ride their scooters,
come over for a quick lunch, let's do popsicles, and
you know, chalk on the driveway. That really is a
game changer. I mean, proximity matters because the kids can
be off playing and you can actually have a conversation.

(19:48):
And most of the time, at least in my circle,
it ends up being venting. Right, exactly what you said,
Mandy about like how am I paying one hundred and
eighty dollars and the camp ends at eleven thirty and
I dropped them off four and a half minutes ago, right, Like,
first of all, and if.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
You want them to do the lunch, okay.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Hello, and I have to pack a lunch eat that
they will eat, right, that they'll bring home. Oh, don't
get me started on the lunch as y'all. But then
also you know the teacher work days and the holidays,
and wait, are they at home more than they're at school?
Because what is the schedule especially as a you know
mom who works out outside of the home. I work
from home, but you know, corporate, it's just hard. You

(20:28):
get the calendar at the beginning of the school year
and you put it in your your work calendar and
you're like, what in the world is happening. So it's
just I think it's just nice to have the community
of moms who are going through it with you and
it you know, it's not the misery Loves Company, but
it's more of man, I'm not the only one going
through it. It's it's that sense of like normy likes normally. Yes, yeah,

(20:53):
we're all in the thick of it.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
You know, I'm someone to reflect our like, to reflect
an experience back to us, so we feel seen.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yes, I was.

Speaker 4 (21:02):
I was perusing on Instagram and.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
This you know, research article ak video that I don't
know if it really is real or basically it came out,
So I was watching on Instagram a video could have
been AI could have been listening to my thoughts. Was
basically just saying that, you know, mothers were meant to
be around other mothers and like modern day society has
really taken that away from us and coupled with the

(21:28):
ambitious woman as well.

Speaker 4 (21:30):
How do you kind of mitigate the two right?

Speaker 3 (21:33):
How do you also show up at work at your hustle,
building your dreams and then also take care of your kids.
It's possible, but there's so much that's been that gets involved.
And that's the thing that I like talking to other mothers,
like yourselves, Like how are you guys managing that right?
Like making sure there's a balance, if there's a balance, right,

(21:54):
Like making sure you're carving out your time for yourself
so that you don't get overwhelmed. That's been my big thing,
is like trying to just get hints from other moms
who are doing it, because like it's been done right,
and then also raising kids who don't we're still.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
Like, you know, a whole and secure attached.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
The hard part it's not like ambitious career, it's that
now being a mom is like it got to be
a conscious mom, a gentle parent and raise these kids
who were in like the Internet pact, right, yeah, no, screens,
the screens are coming and the fortnight and the minecraft
and like what's safe on the internet.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Like nothing.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
It's also never been scarier to be a mom, Like
it's so scary. You know, career for me is like
almost you know, I don't know if I wanna say
it's an easy thing, but for me, the general suffocating
weight of danger and risk that seems to be out
there for kids today. That and preparing myself forward and

(22:53):
like trying to you know, really instill their tiny person
like their their personalities and their strength and they're like
they're self worth at a young age. Because I just
I think of those dangers and risks and I'm like,
there's no way I can be there every time. All
I all I can do is like try to raise

(23:14):
humans who love themselves, love other people, and can think
for themselves and can think critically and are kind. And
I don't know know how to dig in the dirt,
like it's so much.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
And we have boys, And I always say that too,
because like I think there's also this rhetoric around like
men in general, you know how we just complain to
like you know, we can complain about men all day.
But then I'm like, oh, wait, I'm raising a man.
I don't want some little girl one day to be
like he's not helping me, you know, wash the dishes,
or he doesn't know how to do this. So it's like,

(23:48):
how do you also raise a whole man who understands
how to be a partner, so a woman or whatever,
you know, whoever they partner with later in life, Like
how do I make sure that they're a whole person
in in always as well?

Speaker 2 (24:01):
But I think the fact that you're even even raising
that question shows that you are going to do that
all right, because I could do the od I mean
they could. But I think you're conscious. So you're probably
also doing things at home to show like Okay, well
you can sweep, or you can help me with the dishwasher,
or you can help wipe down this countertop, you know.

Speaker 4 (24:21):
Or you can talk about your feelings, or you can exactly.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, it's modeling, Like modeling is something that I've been
thinking a lot more, especially around I had such a
great love of reading and books and libraries when I
was a kid, and I can see that my son.
I mean, he's just like a kid, of course, like
if I had screens. I mean I was obsessed with
a game boy and in a Nintendo Duck Hunter game,

(24:46):
Like what the games I got? Yeah? What the game
they got? Now, I'm like, of course he wants to
do this instead of go sit in the library. But
he loves me and he loves his mama, and if
I'm doing something so like, I would find myself going
to the library with him and he would go, you know,
you know, do whatever he's doing, and I'll be on
my phone catching up on email. And I was like, no, lady,

(25:08):
go get a book and model the behavior that you
want to see. And that for me, it's almost like
it's kind of killing two birds with one stone. It's
not like we're sitting there and teaching like you should
do this and you should like that. It's like, if
we make sure that we're good and if we make
sure that we are living the values that we want
them to sort of like get through osmosis, then they're

(25:31):
watching all the time. They're watching, and I mean, I
think you mentioned you have a partner, Rena, and I
hope that partner is also being that model of what
a good other half can be and like how to
be supportive and you know, how to take care of
a partner. Yeah, my husband all the time, I'm like,
you gon' and see that in front of the kids,

(25:52):
Like they're gonna say that to their wife someday.

Speaker 4 (25:54):
Like, don't they also know we all come from different backgrounds.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Or husband or are they then whatever? I don't care.

Speaker 4 (25:59):
Yeah, you got to make sure you include that, right.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
It's just like there's so much and like everyone's bringing
their own I think the big thing for me that
parenting maybe for you guys, like parenting makes you confront
things you've never confronted about yourself, or parts of yourself
that you might have never healed, or just you know,
parts of like just who you are. Everything comes to

(26:23):
the service where you're then trying to teach someone else.
So it's like, how do you make sense of all
of that?

Speaker 1 (26:29):
And you in therapy?

Speaker 4 (26:32):
Me, no, I should be right. So I okay, let's.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Break it down. This has kind of become like Jessica
and Mandy somehow we're like the experts.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
And listen, not claiming to be an expert.

Speaker 4 (26:43):
I mean, sign up.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
You know.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
It's funny I did because you know doctor Joy from
Therapy for Black Girls, that's my girl. We were all
in the Mastermind together, and I'm like, I went to
Therapy for Black Girls, I found I spoke to two
different therapists, so I did choose one. So we're in
the process of I had to like send in it
because after this grief process, I'm like, I definitely tough
someboud it.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, oh that's big, definitely definitely yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Well, going back to the question earlier, and I want
to be sure that we like touch on that as
you mentioned, like how to be ambitious, and like I
want to hear from you too, Jessica on that, like
how do you juggle what you hope for yourself, your dreams,
your career, your ambitions with the all consuming, all encompassing
responsibility and joy and fun of being a mom.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
You know, I kind of am giving myself this like
ten year window of like, all right, I can sleep
some other time.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
Now.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
I do value my sleep, and I go to bed
very early, So don't ask me what's on TV, because
I'm probably not watching it. I'm doing work. Then you know,
it's dinner, book, bathbed, and then maybe a podcast, newsletter
or you know, sending an email for a guest or
teeing something like that up and then I go to bed.
So I don't do a lot of TV. I do
a lot of pot I do a lot of audiobooks. So, Mandy,

(28:02):
that's something I've been thinking about of like we go
to the library and we love books and we read
every night, but the kids don't see me reading. So
that's something that I've thought about of like modeling. So
I'll tell them, like, mommy's listening to this book, because again,
I want them to know that I am consuming something
other than my phone. So you know, I'm kind of
struggling with that because it's optics, like I am reading.

(28:24):
I read almost one hundred books a year, but like
you don't see me.

Speaker 4 (28:27):
You can't see it.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
You can't see it exactly.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
So there's just go get the prop from the library.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
And then put it on the counter. Yeah, I should
do that.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
I have done that. Sometimes I want both forms just
in case.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
M see, if I read with a book in my hand,
I will fall asleep. So it's just it's not going
to happen. But I do like the idea of the props.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
I might.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
I might do that. Yeah, but I in my head,
I'm like, Okay, what am I doing this for? And
that's just kind of what brings me back, and I
try to ground myself in that because in my head,
I'm like, I think I have ten more years of
corporate in me and then I really want to do
my own thing. And because my kids will be teenagers,
then to me, that's I want to be whatever schedule
they need me to be on, to support them, to

(29:09):
be there, to encourage them, to be there, to reaate
them on, to be there for every you know, track me, recital,
whatever it is. I want to make sure that nobody
is questioning my schedule and that I can be where
I need to be for my family. And then the
other thing is we want to travel like, we want
to be a traveling family. We've been talking about potentially
moving out of the country, So what would that look

(29:32):
like and how do we set that up? And can
I be a corporate girly and still do that? And
so I have a lot of these thoughts, but really
in my head, I'm like, Okay, get it done now
so that when I'm fifty, I turn forty next month.
When I'm fifty, I have all the options that I
want to have. And that's kind of what keeps me going, don't.

(29:54):
I don't believe in balance. I feel like I'm either
crushing at work or I'm crushing it at motherhoo. Good listen.
If I'm crushing it at work, then the laundry room
is overflowing with clothes, okay, And if I'm crushing it
at home, then you know something else is kind of
falling off. And I've let that idea go a long
time ago because I just don't think it's reality. It's

(30:15):
not my season for balance.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
So what I'm hearing there is like you have a
clear goal in mind, like you have, and that I
feel like has been really helpful. The times when I
haven't been so clear on what I want for myself
five ten years out, that's when it's been harder for
me and I felt more like lost. So the last
few years especially have been like really uncertain for me

(30:38):
and also just kind of trying trying to tread water
and not really able to see very far out because
I was dealing with some burnout and I was dealing
with like some mental health challenges and like there's just
so much going on, and I feel like Raina like
when you're able to be clearer with like where you

(30:59):
want to see yourself, that may help you make choices
today that if you can see the value in it
and you see how it's getting you to that goal
that you want, it can make it easier to deal
with the inconvenience of whatever the choice is today.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
I think that's so real, and I think like it's
just something i've known. Like sometimes I'm the type of
person if I do something really well, I'll keep doing it.
But if I know that it might cause me some
kind of discomfort or I might be pushed outside my
comfort zone in some way, I might steer away from it.
So I think it's a learning to be uncomfortable in
the process of trying to get to do something new.

(31:37):
And you can't keep doing the same things if you
want different results. Wait is that the right Yah? Yeah, right,
So it's like you have to I think for me
it's like raina. You might not, like, you know, being
a little bit tired at night, but just sit and
get the thing done and you'll like the result after
doing that, and then you'll realize it wasn't that bad,
or like you said, be more clear about what it

(32:01):
is that I'm working towards. And then I think it's
like having that confidence in myself too. Like for me,
one of the big things I've been working with a
coach through Have you guys heard of score?

Speaker 4 (32:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yeah, yeah, So I got like a business coach, and
we realized, like he's like, it's not the.

Speaker 4 (32:19):
Business that's the issue, it's you. And I was like,
oh me.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
He was like, you need to get clear or what
you want or like carve out time for you because
like he's like, I'm very confident in your ability to
actually execute, but like you're just really overwhelmed right now.
So he's like, if it's buying your time back, if
it's buying the help, meaning like hiring a nanny or
hiring you know, someone to come in and clean the house,

(32:45):
whatever that is, he's like, you have to carve out
that time. And I when you get that part of
yourself clear, when you work on you, that will then
translate to the business and to your overall goals. And
when I think about that, it also goes back to
the podcast, Like I've had over like three hundred something
yes on my.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Show, right and Aw'll.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
Say, like whenever I interview people, they say all sorts
of industries, the common thread is the thing that helped
them get to their dream is not like the tactical
logistical like learning how to make a business plan.

Speaker 4 (33:20):
They're like, I had to learn myself.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
Oh yeah, right, that's.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
The I think with motherhood and trying to pursue ambitious goals,
it's like learning yourself and really centering who you are
will help the journey move forward.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, hey, ba fam, We're going to take a quick break,
pay some bills, and we'll be right back. Welcome back,
bea faan, let's get back to the show.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
You did say a few things that I think are helpful.
So I had. So I've been in corporate since I
mean I could work, and there was a former executive
she said to out source everything but love. Now, obviously
that comes with a price tag. So I would encourage
people to outsource what you can comfortably afford and what

(34:10):
fits in your budget. One thing that I've outsourced for many,
many years is housework. So I have a cleaner that
comes every other Monday. And listen if I if you
told me I had to choose between my cleaner and
getting my nails done, I'm choosing the cleaner.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
It is so valuable because I know my mind does
not work when my house is not clean. So that's
number one. Number Two something that I've been outsourcing is meals,
and I only do it for myself. I don't do
it for my kids because again, they don't eat anything anyway,
I waste the money. Why waste the money?

Speaker 3 (34:42):
Right?

Speaker 2 (34:42):
And then my husband does his own thing. He you know,
he's the macro counter. He literally weighs his coffee creamer
every morning. So I'm not gonna worry about him. He
can do his own thing. So all I have to
do is worry about me. And there's a local place here.
They have a huge array of meals. I will even deliver.
Sometimes I pick it up. Sometimes they'll deliver. Sometimes depending

(35:04):
on my week, I'll do like two meals a day
and then like today, I have to go and pick
it up. And I'm gonna do one meal a week
or one meal every day for the week, And so
that's one less thing I have to think about. I
don't have to go to the grocery store. I don't
have to chop anything, I don't have to cook it,
and that puts more time back in my day. So
I would encourage you if there's something where you're.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Like this, just love second, Can we normalize that everybody
eats different things? Because I love that the whole Like,
I'm gonna make a pot of food, and if you
don't like it. Well, then you don't eat like kind
of vibe.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
I'm just like, it's not nineteen eighty five. We're not
doing that anymore.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah, it's just like, if you want to have this,
I'll have that. Like my husband and I eat something different,
like most nights during the week, he gets home at
different times. I usually eat at four pm, like before
I pick up my kids, and then I'm not even
hungry for dinner because I'm like, let me get my
late lunch early dinner.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
In exactly before someone else is trying to be like mom,
what do people want?

Speaker 4 (35:58):
Then they don't even eat it. Yeah, yeah, couch later.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Or I'm standing at the counter right the butter noodles.
I'm standing at the counter while the kids are eating.
And then Brandon is my own thing.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
I'm picking up with them, I'm talking to them, I'm
doing homework, or I'm just like chatting, I'm watching them together.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
But it's not that like everybody's eating this one meal
that was cooked sexually.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
No, not dessert. Maybe well I'll have a popsicle after.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah, Reina, you're taking it too far. You're taking it
too far now.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
Jessica, what helps you what helps you feel because you
said you're turning forty. That's a big milestone and very exciting. Yeah,
and I'm wondering that you know, you always hear like
from older women that the older you get, the more
you understand yourself and it becomes more freeing. And I
know Raina you had talked about I have also been
on this huge journey to better understand the way that

(36:53):
my like, the reason why I feel the way I do, think,
the way I do, act the way I do. I'm
really getting to understand myself. It's been so liberating and
to your point, Raina, it has helped me make decisions
for myself that for the business that have made me
feel more capable and confident of doing it. So yeah,
I just want to take a pause there, Jessica and

(37:14):
ask if you can share there's anything that you're doing
or do you have a practice that you have that
helps you feel more connected to who you are and
understanding who you are now and what you want Well.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
Through therapy, I think that I've learned to lower the
bar for myself, and that's really difficult. That is the
repeated statement that I am told constantly is to just
lower the bar. The expectations are too high. I'm putting
too much pressure on myself. I have to give myself

(37:46):
more grace. Not everything has to be done in a day,
in a week, in a month, right, and so learning
how to prioritize or see barwaere like wherever wherever I
find peace, Okay, I need to find peace. And that
could be different in this month than it is next month.
It could be different based on my work schedule. It

(38:06):
could be different based on what's going on with the kids.
You know. I think one of the things that I've
learned is it's okay to say no. No is good
and it's a complete sentence. You don't have to go
to every single birthday party that your kids are invited to.
Your house doesn't have to be perfect for you to
invite somebody over.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Do not invite me to the bounce house experience.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
I will see you're the worst.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
They're I hate them same my kids doing it too.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yeah, so then I can stand around and smell other
people's feet for two hours. Gross. No, that is not
how I want to spend my Saturday. Yes, so by
saying no, I mean that alone will put three hours
back in your day on a Saturday, And honestly, I'd
rather sit outside with my kids at a park and
bring a picnic and let them play and run around

(38:55):
and invite one of my girlfriends whose kids also need
to get out and play and run around, than to
be at some bounce house. You know, but I think
lowering the bar prioritizing you know, what do you have
to get done today? What would you like to get done?
I still very much struggle with, like finding time for me.
I'm very much the person that I'm going to choose

(39:18):
to do the laundry versus go to the gym, even
though I know I need to go to the gym,
but I feel better when the laundry's done. And so
those are things that I'm still working through where I'm like,
you know what, No, I'm allowed to have an hour
to myself where I do something good for me and
my body and my health because it will also benefit
and serve my family in the long run. So, you know,

(39:40):
again giving myself grace, learning along the way. But no
is a complete sentence. Your kids, you know, they don't
need the newest gadget. You don't have to, you know,
go to the store with them and let them go
crazy at target. You can just you know, be outside
with them and run around everything.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
And teaching them it's okay to like be okay with
me exactly.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Yeah, I think we all need to learn how to
be okay with less. But I think too that just
lowers the bar again, right, like like the bar is
just so high and he also break.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
It's almoso about Like one of the things that I
meditate on a lot with my children is I feel
like I've created these humans, and I mean I have
a little bit of hope, but like I created these
humans and my job is to get to know them too.
And a lot of the time what's become easier for
me to say no on behalf of my son and
like say no to things is if he doesn't like

(40:38):
if if who he is doesn't it doesn't align with
what he is, what he likes, you know, what he enjoys.
Like if he doesn't like the loud bounce house experience,
it makes him like kind of go nuts, which it did.
I'm like, well that's not good for him. So that's
what I'm learning. Rio is not a fan of that,
you know, or if you know he's a snuggle, like

(41:00):
he really wants his you know, cuddle time. So I'm
not going like sometimes I will you know, skip a
homework or I'll skip even like playtime, you know, like
or I don't do after school sports for him yet
because he has not shown an interest even though all

(41:20):
the other kids are in soccer and basketball and stuff.
And I took him to a basketball camp and he
was like, I want to go run around the lobby
with my little brother and not do this. And I
was like, okay, well I tried it.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
And you could have saved yourself three hundred dollars.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
We did next little karate and he legit would not
even go on like the mat. His dad was like
holding him on the side and he just left half
way through. We're like, oh, but he does piano now
he actually really likes it.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
He's just like there you go.

Speaker 4 (41:47):
He's excited him.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
But they're not forcing them, and like you get all stress,
like are they gonna like it? Do they get? Oh?
They didn't like it. I failed Africa Afro Beats dance
class was a bust. Try.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
I want to know what you guys think about this?
Is this something that I've been standing up for myself
more being okay with one of my like being okay
with being a mother and telling people I am a
mother and that's a noun. And I say that because
like this happened in corporate right, Like we're talking about
like end of year goals and we have like an

(42:21):
internal mom's group, and my boss, you know, my boss
was like I was telling my boss how like I
really want to be more active with this mom's group
because I think it's an important initiative that can really
benefit from a lot of people. And you know, he's
a dad himself, but I think mothers and fathers just
think about things differently. And he was kind of like, well,
do you not feel supported enough from our team? Like

(42:43):
why do you need to be on this mom's group?
And I'm like, hey, I just want to level set
with you. I think that mom's in general, no matter what,
we are mothers and there's always going to be a
need for extra support and right.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
And plus your company offers it, so like, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
It's just the thing that I'm not scared to tell
people I'm a mom, and I think that's no, no, no,
I'm not I'm just saying that I think there.

Speaker 4 (43:09):
Are some moms who don't lead.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
I've met mothers corporate with their mothers because it's.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
Almost a weakness, right, like, oh, she's not going to
come to the after hours, tell.

Speaker 4 (43:22):
People, Hey, I'm a mom.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
I'm not scared to say like order request, Hey I
need to leave the office early because I have to
have an after school obligation for my son. And I
say that because if we don't stand up for ourselves
in those arenas, and it never becomes normalized, and I'm
always going to be marginalized. So that's why I just
say for anyone who's working, I mean, it depends on

(43:45):
your corporate culture.

Speaker 4 (43:46):
Like I do feel supported here.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
As a mom, right and we have a lot of flexibility.
But I just also think that it's important to continue
to show people that I am a mom and I
also work here. And I also this because I just
think that they might want you to diminish that part
of who you are, and when you stand up, that's
when people really respect you and they don't try to
play games with you. Because I'm like my kids confirst,

(44:09):
like I love my job, I love doing this, but
like if I had to choose, I'm going to I
want to be there for his talent show. I want
to be there for you know, the little mom's day
or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
So yeah, yeah, I got it whole lot Monday through
Friday for kid pick up and you know what, Brandon
does kid pick up, but just in case, just in
case something pops off and I need to be there.
That is my time and you need to not block
over it. Thank you.

Speaker 4 (44:35):
Yeah, and that's it, period.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
Period, part stop.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
I think where you work is so important to your
mental health as a woman, as a mother, Like, if
you want to be a mother, I would. I know
that not every pregnancy is planned and you can't be
sometimes you're not meticulous and all of that, but as
much as you can ensure that you are at a
place where you are, you do have that support and
the culture. And it doesn't have to be the full

(45:00):
any culture, but at least your manager, your team, like
they need to. You need to feel supported at work
because you will have those days, you know, where you
need to call in sick or leave early or whatever,
and that is a huge That's something that you may
not have to think about if you don't have children,

(45:20):
but we deserve to consider that and you know, as
a career coach, myself like would I say ask in
the interview, like do you support working moms? It's sad,
but I would say no because I do feel like
sometimes they'll think about, oh, they're just going to call
it all the time. But you can get a sense
from speaking to people in an interview process if they
are supportive of families and family, like your family needs

(45:42):
through whether they're have flexible work hours, if you can
work from home. Do they offer a daycare benefit or
a childcare benefit? And so many so few do, but
right you know, do they have do they talk about
having families? You know that type of thing. It makes
a huge difference. And I love how you know you're
talking about just being like unapologetic about it, because how

(46:03):
are we supposed to claim that time for ourselves and
like claim what we ask for what we need if
we're denying this huge part, like this huge compass in
our life and our day.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
But I think showing up as a mom, I know,
for me makes me a better employee because I'm not
saying that other people aren't working for something. But everything
I do, every meeting, I take, every business trip I
go on, I feel the sacrifice. Like I've traveled twice
internationally this month alone, so Brandon had to hold it

(46:35):
down for two full weeks. That's a lot. That's a
lot of guilt, you know that I kind of carry on,
Oh my gosh, is everybody okay? The kids are totally fine.
Brandon did great, But like, I take these opportunities so
seriously because I know that they're going to help me
get to where I want to be in those next
ten years, you know, kind of bringing it back full circle.

(46:56):
And I have to show up to me. I show
up the way that I do every single day at work,
so that if I do have a kid with an
ear infection and I have to say, hey, I can't
come to those meetings, we need to move them or
record them. I'll listen to them later. Nobody's questioning how
hard I work, right, So it's constantly that balance of like, Okay,

(47:19):
show up as best I can so that nobody questions
me for when I do have to be out or
for when I do want a chaperone the field trip
or whatever that is. And that's guilt and that's pressure,
and that's probably unrealized trauma that I still need to
work through. But I do feel like it helps me
show up in a way that is intentional because it's
time away from my kid's, time away from my family,

(47:39):
and I also want that to be meaningful.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
But it's got to tick that box of how is
this bringing value to my end goal? And like one
hundred percent, everything has to be filtered through that lens.
I can say no to so much when I ask myself,
is this something that will bring value to me through
you know, for brown ambition to my family? Does it
serve this purpose to bank account? Yeah? And the time

(48:05):
is so limited and you'll probably hate this rain now,
but I also love waking up at four am. Now
I'm at four am, go to I told you I
love my quiet my brain. I just it's a beautiful
brain when I can. And you know, some mornings, if
it's like really late and I can't get up at four,
then I don't get up at four. But like I do,
try to go to bed when I can, and I

(48:29):
will leave a dirty You should see my kitchen right now,
I'm staring at it. I can tolerate a mess, and
I will tolerate a mess so that I can get
some quiet time for my own brain.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
And you know, and you're writing a book I mean, like,
come on, because there's just something's got to give, you know,
laundry pickup forty bucks a week for my kids clothes
because I just folding little time to try and get there.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
Yeah, I'm buck to take forty Sorry, not forty bucks
a month, Poppen forty bucks a week. No, just my
local laundry mat.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Oh, just text her.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
I'm like, Carmen, can you come pick up the boys stuff?
And she'll pick it up and drop it off in
a few hours. And it's just like, oh my god, that's.

Speaker 4 (49:08):
A nice one.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
I haven't thought about that, And I'm like.

Speaker 4 (49:12):
Oh, I should just be more on top of this.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
Laundry takes. Oh I hate it.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
No, it's never ending. It's the worst. It's my one
chore where I'm like, if I never had to do
this again.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Outsource the kids stuff because like, who cares, it's not
all delicate and stuff. And then my stuff I'll put
aside and do that the way I want it to
be done. But yeah, the kid's stuff, I send their
fancy tie, gentle free and gentle soap with it. No,
here go use this well as you guys are so busy.
This is great. I mean I wish we I'm just

(49:43):
gonna have you guys on more often because I feel like,
if it's a podcast.

Speaker 4 (49:46):
Could be your mom correspondence.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
Yes, I bet you there's somebody listening who's like, I
can resonate with that, or you know that makes sense
to me.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
I hope that y'all both get more time to just
like think your thoughts and you know, have that quiet
time and take that time. I love a sound bath.
I've been. I started. I did a sound bath last week.
I did, and I'm doing another one and in April,
like a full moon one, and it's so so helpful

(50:18):
and meditative.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Did we just plan a retreat or I'm done?

Speaker 1 (50:22):
If y'all want to, like, I mean, you know, we're.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
Up in the listen. I got Miles, I'll come up.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Oh yeah, you know Nikaela Nikola is a girl. She's
the one who got me onto the laundry service. I
was like, oh, you're right, I can do that.

Speaker 4 (50:38):
You know what.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
I've also told myself guys that there's a season for everything, right,
And I say that because, like, I have a kid
who's still nursing in the middle of the night, which
is a big thing. I've been trying to wean him forever.
So it's like my knights are just like up and down, right.
So but everyone's like, there's a season. He's not gonna
be breastfeeding forever, right, or he's not going to be
at this age because like seek through the night now.

(51:01):
But these was just like.

Speaker 4 (51:02):
Mom my, mom, I'm just like, oh, here's me.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
So it's like there's a season, and in each season
you learn something that you'll take to the next season.
So for anybody listening, you feel like you know this
is gonna last forever. It probably won't whatever you last forever. Yeah, yeah,
the sun always comes out eventually, right, the rain has
to stop.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
And that's what I tell myself about these four am
wake up calls. I'm like, this is what I need
right now, and what my work demands of me is
a ton of focus and you know, and that helps
me get through those challenging nights. I mean, we had
a I don't even want to and also like immediately
forgetting a rough night of sleep, but I'll quickly relive
it for y'all. Last night, both boys were I mean

(51:49):
my two year old almost two year old, like Remy
was a he was like possessed. He was overtired, he
would possessed screaming bloody murder for an hour straight anyway,
and he finally, like what he finally fell asleep. I'm
curled up on the floor in front of our staircase
because I won't tell you why we were downstairs on
the hardwood floor with him. And he just finally throws
his arms back and lays down on my thigh and

(52:12):
just like passes out. He's like, and I was like,
it's ten thirty at this point, and I'm just like,
I'll just quickly forget about that. That's just the you know,
we're just in this like transition or whatever right now,
and it'll it's not going to be forever. And that
relieves so much suffering this too. Shell pass this. Yep, yes,

(52:33):
lean into friends right now. We got to talk about
how to get you some mom friends and near U.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
Yes, you know, you know have cousins like my cousin
who's like my best friend. She also has two kids
who are my son and her son in the same
age and her daughter.

Speaker 4 (52:45):
They love each other. But like, you know, how you.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
Don't want you know, someone's already going through it too.
It's like dang, you got two kids, we're the same age.
I don't want How can you support each other?

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Like, yeah, go through it.

Speaker 4 (52:55):
You went to the.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Park last Saturday when the day where we thought it
was it was summer, but it really still spring. We
went to They love like I love just going over
there and being like, hey, kids run around and you know, mess.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
With each other on each other's houses and like sitting
around while one of your meal preps and the other like.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Or folds laundry, laundry like yeah, come.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Sit and like take my dog for a walk, like
I don't know, love that too, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
And then the kids see that and they normalize like
mom needs time for herself or mom and auntsie are
going to have like you know, my kid knows what alcoholism, Like, no, you.

Speaker 4 (53:29):
Can't have this, this is alcohol. He's like, I don't
drink alcohol. Okay, I'm so gled.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
I got to wrap up, y'all, but this has been
Oh no, thank you so so much for the time.
We're all doing amazing and.

Speaker 4 (53:45):
We are moms.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
Are moms, was just we're just goddesses, guys, Like legit,
super we made lucky little.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
Humans, right, Yeah, absolutely, they really are to have us. Amen.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Well, if you guys need anything and I can support,
just let me know. And it goes both ways as well.
I will ask y'all as well when I need support
to Jessica Terina go check out their podcast right now,
Sugar Daddy Podcast and Dreams and Drive and yeah, this
is Brandonbition. Thank y'all so much for listening. Bye, okay

(54:19):
va fam, thank you so much for listening to this
week's show. I want to shout out to our production team, Courtney,
our editor, Carla, our fearless leader for idea to launch productions.
I want to shout out my assistant Lauda Escalante and
Cameron McNair for helping me put the show together. It
is not a one person project, as much as I

(54:41):
have tried to make it so these past ten years.
I need help y'all, and thank goodness I've been able
to put this team around me to support me on
this journey. And to y'all be a fam. I love
you so so so so much. Please rate, review, subscribe,
make sure you're sign up to the newsletter to get
all the latest updates on upcoming episodes, our tenth year

(55:02):
anniversary celebrations to come, and until next time, talk to
you soon ba bye.

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Mandi Woodruff-Santos

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