October 3, 2025 • 45 mins
What does it take to win national swimming titles while working chaotic ER shifts and raising a competitive family? In this encore episode, we sit down with masters legend and ER physician Kurt Dixon to unpack the habits, mindset, and simple systems that keep him fast at 54—and grounded through real-life storms. Kurt’s résumé is staggering: 100+ U.S. masters national wins, world records, the Triple Crown of Marathon Swimming, and Ironman finishes. Yet his playbook is refreshingly unfancy: repeatable sets, six days a week in the water, no strength training, and a taper built on broken 200s to spark race speed. He talks candidly about racing anxiety, why practice times don’t predict his meets, and how to stay calm when the late-race pain hits in the 1000 and 1650.
We also explore the mental framework that turns adversity into fuel. After job upheaval, family crises, and the pandemic, Kurt rebuilt with a three-part response: forgive to clear mental space, choose better environments and patience, then harness primal energy into training. That shift led to one of his best competitive years. You’ll hear how he uses long swims to focus, how ER trauma changes the way he defines pressure, and why consistent naps and weekly yoga matter more with age. He shares injury lessons, simple shoulder prehab, and technique tweaks that protect joints without sacrificing speed.
On the personal side, Kurt’s humor shines. He loves milk chocolate and M&Ms, trains mostly alone, and jokes about buoyancy over body composition. His wife—a decorated cyclist—pushes him with epic rides, and their family has racked up miles and memories traveling to events. For masters swimmers, triathletes, and endurance fans, this conversation is packed with practical training tips, taper tactics, recovery strategies, and performance mindset tools you can use right away.
If this story resonates, follow the show, share it with someone who needs a spark, and leave a quick review to help others find us. And if you’re craving more investigative health storytelling, check out Kelly’s new book, False Cure, by visiting https://www.False-Cure.com
Email us at HELLO@ChampionsMojo.com. Opinions discussed are not medical advice, please seek a medical professional for your own health concerns.
Check out Kelly's Books at www.KellyPalace.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:02):
Hello, friends.
This is Kelly Pallas, host ofChampions Mojo, your place for
better health, resilience, andmaster swimming.
I'm taking a short break fromrecording new episodes of
Champions Mojo for two excitingreasons.
First, I'm launching my latestbook, False Cure.
It's a whistleblowinginvestigative journalism book
(00:24):
about a denied health epidemic.
If you'd like more informationon that, it's in the show notes.
The second and most compellingreason I'm on a break is here at
Champions Mojo, we're preparingfor the January 2026 reboot of
powerful new weekly episodeswith expert guest interviews,
(00:46):
inspiring topics, and tips totake your mindset, health, and
personal performance to the nextlevel.
We will be announcing someincredible partnerships with the
show, and I guarantee what wehave in store for you will
empower you and keep your mojostrong in the new year.
While I'm preparing some of thisgreat stuff, we've selected some
(01:10):
of our best shows ever for anEncore series.
My hope is that if this is yoursecond time listening to this
episode, you'll take away evenmore insight and motivation.
Or if it's your first time,you'll love this episode as much
as everyone else did.
So settle in and enjoy thisEncore presentation in its
(01:31):
entirety.
I am co-hosting with MariaParker.
Hey Maria.
Hi, Kelly.
It's so great to be with youtoday.
Yes.
Before we tell you all about ourspecial guest today, Kurt Dixon,
let's welcome him to the showwhile he sits there.
Hey, Kurt.
unknown (01:47):
Hey Kurt.
SPEAKER_00 (01:48):
Hello, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
Great, great to see you.
So great to have you, Kurt.
Yes.
So a masters athlete champion.
These masters athletes are trulyamazing.
They're living full lives withday jobs outside of their
stellar accomplishments asathlete.
And we are in the presence ofsomeone who is a true
(02:10):
inspiration in Kurt Dixon.
He is a full-time ER physician.
He has been on the front linesof COVID.
We can talk with him about thata little.
He said it is slowing down, butyou know that he's been training
hard while he's been an ERphysician.
His master swimming resumespeaks to what a champion he is.
(02:31):
Currently, Kurt is 54 years old,specializing in the longer
freestyle events and backstroke.
He's been a US master's nationalchampion 95 times, which means
95 All-American honors.
He's also a two-time Fena worldrecord holder, seven-time USMS
long distance all-star.
(02:51):
And in 2021, in the 50 to 54men's age group, he added his
first ever pool all-star honor,which is the highest honor in
U.S.
master swimming.
But there's more, isn't there,Maria?
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (03:05):
Wow.
He's not just been earning U.S.
master swimming awards, he'salso completed the highest honor
in marathon swimming, known asthe Triple Crown of Marathon
Swimming, which get ready,includes the swim around
Manhattan, which is 28 and ahalf miles, the English Channel
Crossing, 21 miles, and swimmingthe Catalina Channel 20.2 miles,
(03:27):
which in 2021 he earned thefastest time of the year in just
over nine hours.
And if that wasn't enough forus, he's also a five-time Iron
Man finisher.
So let's not delay anymore andget to finding out what makes
this incredible champion techKirk Dixon.
Welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
Thanks.
Great to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (03:47):
So glad to have you.
SPEAKER_02 (03:49):
Yeah, Kurt, I we're just so excited.
I think there's just millions ofquestions we have.
We're going to start off withhow do you have time to train
for such long events with aschedule of an ER physician?
SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
It's just important enough to me to make the time.
I've I've always I work a lot ofweird hours.
It's a different time every day.
And it's hard to get into aschedule or a routine, but it's
important enough to me to justkind of carve out some time to
do a little bit every day.
SPEAKER_01 (04:18):
Do you have, do you have like, even though you don't
have a routine, do you have alike be always before work or
always after work kind of thinggoing?
Or do you just every day wake upand say, okay, today it's going
to be blah, blah, blah?
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
I usually try to go after work because work kind of
makes me sad and I don't wantto, I don't want to be sadder by
being more tired.
But uh I I try to do it after,but I mean if it's if I'm like
today, I'm I'm in a few, I'mgoing in in about an hour or so.
So I'll I swam this morning, butI usually I don't like to get up
super early anymore.
I I I had 20 years of that and Idon't really need it anymore.
(04:51):
So I don't do like the 4 a.m., 5a.m.
stuff anymore.
So I I usually try to do it, youknow, after if I can.
SPEAKER_02 (04:57):
So you're gonna swim twice today?
SPEAKER_00 (05:00):
No, I'm just gonna swim once today.
I swam this morning and then I'mgoing to work in a little bit
here.
SPEAKER_02 (05:05):
Oh, oh, so when you get off, it'll actually be
tomorrow, maybe?
SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
Well, it kind of will, it kind of will be, but
I'll probably just go since I'mtapering, I'll probably just do
once today.
I don't usually do a lot oftwo-a-days anymore.
That's the beauty of masterswimming.
You don't have to do two-a daysanymore.
You do whatever you want.
SPEAKER_02 (05:19):
So, what does that look like?
What is what is a general weekof, you know, we see that or we
hear that you're not doing um,you know, a schedule, but is
there a certain number ofyardage per week or a certain
number of days or a certainnumber of um pace sets, or what
does that look like for you?
SPEAKER_00 (05:40):
I it's kind of various.
I and my my rest times are morewhen I have like more work, so I
end up like just maybe doingmore easy stuff.
But I worked yesterday and uhtill midnight or so, and then I
today I have I'm doing it, I dida taper workout.
But I mean in general I do uhyou know three to four thousand
a day, and it's mostly for me,it's mostly I actually do the
(06:02):
same set almost 70% of the time.
Um it's kind of a weird, it's itjust it's just easy.
I don't have to think about it.
I just go and do the sameworkout a lot, actually.
So it's what is that?
SPEAKER_02 (06:12):
Yeah.
What is that set?
SPEAKER_00 (06:15):
It's not all that exciting, but it's I do like
three or four three hundredslike freestyle on like four
minutes, and I try to, you know,descend them, and then I do
four, three or four two hundredsum backstroke on three.
Just try to descend those andthen I'll do some pulling and
kicking and get out mostly.
That's about my general dayusually.
SPEAKER_02 (06:34):
Yeah, just to translate that, because I know
there will be people that mightnot understand that quick
jargon.
Um, so the 400s are on a 115base.
I mean the 300s are on a 115base and the 200s backstroke are
on a 130 base.
So that's that's a pretty,pretty uh tight interval for
most mortals.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
Um but three, go ahead.
Yeah, my question was do yougenerally swim just whenever,
you know, is your pool like a Yand you just get over there and
swim whenever there are otherpeople around?
Do you try to ever makepractices with another with a
group?
SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
Uh where I'm at, there's nobody else.
I've um yeah, I lived in Phoenixfor 24 years and there was
nobody there either.
I mean, there's places if youwanted to travel, I just never
was uh I used I sounded like Iwasted a lot of time going to
you know 30 minutes or 45minutes to wherever else
somebody is.
So I I generally train alone.
Some people have a hard timewith that.
(07:29):
I don't I don't mind it as much.
Um as a master swimmer, I can,you know, if I don't feel great,
I don't have to worry aboutbracing somebody.
I just do what do what is bestfor me and and it so it takes a
little pressure off it andactually makes it more enjoyable
for me.
But some people absolutely haveto have somebody else they won't
do it.
So everybody's different.
But for me, I like just kind ofswimming on my own.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Have you always been self-coached, or do you or have
you had a coach in the past?
SPEAKER_00 (07:55):
I as master's athlete, never.
I've always just swam on my own.
So I'd I've been doing thissince I don't know, 92 or 93 or
so.
And I've never really had acoach.
SPEAKER_02 (08:06):
So yeah, so um we we read kind of your your master's
highlights, but for you know,your background as swimming at
Brigham Young University, youwere a team captain and did
incredibly fast times as acollege swimmer.
What do you think that you carryover from your college days that
(08:28):
have helped you as a master'sswimmer?
SPEAKER_00 (08:31):
Um I used to think that that maybe swimming, like I
used to somebody think I wasmaybe better at it because I
worked so hard at it, but Ithink talent does have some role
in in things.
I don't I think it helps, it ithelps to be have some
background, and especially atechnical sport like swimming,
because I see I did I've done alot of triathlons, and uh it
(08:53):
seems like most triathletes justpretty much ignore the swim.
And then and you can do thatkind of because it's not that
big of part of any triathlon,but it it is the the you know
you can die from it too.
It it's very it's so they Ithink it's important to have
I've been in some the first IronMan I did, uh it was Iron Man
Utah, the guy died in it.
So, but it is it I think theythey tend to ignore it, and uh I
(09:16):
think it's helpful just to dothat.
Um, for for me, I used to do alot of triathlons, and over the
years I've kind of maybe I'vegotten lazy, but I just feel
like uh I could spend threehours being a like a above
average uh triathlete.
I could spend like maybe an houra day being one of the best in
the world at masters for me.
So like it just for me, I'vegotten like just more focused.
(09:38):
I just I I think it's I like tobe good at something and and I
like I really enjoy triathlon,but it just, you know, I it's
just so much time, and it's justit was just better just to be
good at something and just keepkeep going with it and also
spend too much time with it.
SPEAKER_01 (09:52):
Do you do you when you're you know, you do these
amazingly long swims?
And I do long bike rides, so Iunderstand what that's like
alone.
Um, you know, what do you whatdo you think about?
Do you think about work or doyou just breathe?
You know, what do you thinkabout when you're doing these
long either practices or events?
SPEAKER_00 (10:10):
Uh the longer swims is sort of you got to check out
a little bit.
It's uh you know, the Catalinaand the English channel, you're
just you're just trying to likeI a lot of times I'll just blank
out, or sometimes I'll just singsongs in my head, or uh it's
it's it's it's variable.
Sometimes you just think aboutlittle problems you have or
whatever, but it's uh it'smostly checking out.
(10:31):
I mean, you you think abouttrying to try to clo across the
English channel, it's about80,000 strokes, and you just
have to just it's uh you Iremember when I was doing
Catalina a few months ago, and Iwas just like, it's just pitch
black, and you're looking off,like, I don't know if I want to
do this.
It's just like it's justdarkness, and you just there's
nothing to focus on.
There's little critters swimmingaround, and it's kind of creepy,
and it's you just kind of haveto check out a little bit, I
think.
But it's it's it's one one stepat a time, I think.
(10:53):
That's you know that that helps.
So that begs the question, why?
I don't think I like myself.
I like to abuse myself.
I'm the youngest of sevenchildren, and I just I I think
I've just gotten used to justbeating on myself and and and I
don't know.
It's just we're we're all byfamily's pretty competitive,
though.
But it it I don't know, it mustbe some sort of uh I think there
is a mental illness I have.
I'm not really sure.
SPEAKER_01 (11:13):
I haven't put a finger on it, but you're you're
you're kind of being funny, butum, you know, as a physician,
you know, you you see you do seemental illness.
They walk into the ER everysingle day, I'm sure.
Um it's it's no, I I I'd I'dlove you for you to go a little
bit deeper on that.
Like, you know, you you keepchallenging yourself with these
(11:34):
really tough, tough things.
Um, and you know, could I wantyoungest of seven, but you're
54, you got nothing to prove,you've done it all, you know.
So why?
Why do you keep on like what'snext and why would you do that
next thing?
SPEAKER_00 (11:47):
There's an old Warren Zevon song.
I feel I'd rather feel bad thanfeel nothing at all.
And I think that uh uh for me, Ijust feel more alive when I when
I do things.
I mean, there's not it just itgives me more meaning, I think,
to my life.
I don't know.
It's it's uh sometimes I feellike it's kind of lame.
I'm out, I'm 54 and I'm in aspeedo, about ready to go to the
(12:08):
nationals in a few weeks, andit's like, why does anybody you
know, like why does anybodycare?
But it's like, you know what?
I I enjoy that, it makes mehappy, so I I do it.
But that it there's probably uha little of you know, this
feeling of inadequacy that youget people struggle with too.
This you know, you got to proveyourself, and you still and some
people have it stronger thanothers, and I think I have it
pretty strong, and you just youkeep wanting to prove yourself,
(12:31):
but there there is a little ofjust I think it helps you just
feel for me, it helps you feelhappy, so that's why I do it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
I love that.
Yeah, yeah.
So discomfort, you know, youlike the discomfort or like to
at least be done with it, or thephysical you said I'd rather
feel nothing than or feelsomething than nothing at all.
That's interesting.
Okay.
Go ahead, Kelly.
Sorry.
SPEAKER_02 (12:53):
Your your master's resume is amazing.
Is there anything within themaster's community that you have
not done yet that you wouldstill like to do?
Like what's on the list?
SPEAKER_00 (13:04):
Um, I I keep eyeing uh like world records that are
like individual.
I have like I've got some relayworld records that that have
gone, but I'd like to get anindividual one.
But I I I I I eyed them like 10years ago, and then by the time
I get there, someone's like justcrushed it.
So uh I'm getting old enoughthat I'm getting closer.
So there's there's there's onethat I I was looking at maybe
(13:26):
that I can maybe get coming uphere, but I don't know.
It's one of those things.
Yeah, there's not not a lot ofother things that I really want
to do, but I yeah, I would liketo get an individual world
record at some point.
I'm not sure how meaningful itis when you're 110, but you
know, right up.
SPEAKER_02 (13:41):
It does, it means a lot.
Now live everyone.
I I'm I'm just in the 60 agegroup and and I see that.
It's like, okay, just show, justkeep showing up.
SPEAKER_03 (13:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (13:51):
You, I I went through your database, your USMS
database, and looked at yourtimes.
And it appears to me that youare not slowing down much, if
any at all.
If you, you know, arguably, ifyou took kind of an average of
your 200, 500,000, 1650, youknow, you might have you might
(14:11):
be faster in the the 500, butslower in the 200, or faster in
the mile, but slower in the1000.
But you're you're you're holdingyour own with these times that
are pretty incredible from yourthir 35.
In fact, you have some times nowat 55 that are actually faster
than when you were 35, which umtell us how how you're
(14:31):
continuing to maintain this fastpace.
SPEAKER_00 (14:38):
Um, so like I won my Twitter backstroke in 1996 with
a 217, and I won it 20 yearslater with the same time.
So it's I I don't I go well, Iwish I knew the answer to it.
Um, but I like I like to think Iit's because I work hard and I'm
consistent.
I don't miss workouts.
If I don't feel like something,I'll if I'm having a bad day,
(15:00):
I'll just go swim a little easy.
And I usually swim six days aweek, right regardless.
I don't know if that's it or Godfeels sorry for me, or if if
it's like if it's if if I agebetter than other people, there
are people I like would beat thecrap out of me 20 years ago that
I could either beat now or orbeat or have a good race with
(15:21):
them or or beat them prettybadly now.
So I don't know, I really don'tknow what it is that I've done.
Like I I I have tried to beconsistent, and I don't know if
that's a secret if I just havehave you know good genes and I
age better than other people.
I mean, I my patients used totell me like, you know, not too
long ago they looked like a12-year-old, but I I don't have
that problem anymore.
People definitely think I'm oldnow, but I I think I I I might
(15:44):
have aged a little better thanother people, but I don't know.
I don't really know the answerto that.
But I I've thought about it alot and I really I I can't I
can't tell you for sure what itis.
SPEAKER_02 (15:52):
Consistency and how about your body composition?
Because I I I feel the same way.
Like there are women that justcrushed me in 35, 40, 45, um,
and now you know they're eithernowhere to be found or they're
not, you know, in the top 10anymore.
So are you do you think there'sa, you know, has your body
composition changed?
(16:13):
Has your your dry land routinechanged?
But consistency, can you drilldown a little bit on that?
SPEAKER_00 (16:21):
Well, I mean, I I wish I could say I'd like I I
worked, I mean, uh there's a lotof things I don't do that I
should do.
Like I eat, I eat like I likeMMs and I eat a lot of junk, and
I think I've gotten a lotfatter.
I think since I was in college,I was like 150 pounds and I'm
like 220 now.
So I don't know how.
So uh I I like my desserts.
I do, I do go to workout lot,but I don't I don't do any
(16:43):
weights.
I do zero weights.
So like I've never done weights.
I used to at college go to uhthe weight room and the the
coach would try to kick me outof the weight room because he
didn't know I was the weightcoach, thought I was like didn't
belong there.
And the other swimmers had totell him that I was like the
best swimmer on the team and youcan't kick him out.
It was a good place for anabsolute.
Um I no, I I I think for me itwas, I mean, I do this same
(17:05):
almost the same set every day.
I I I go every day, but I don'tI as a as a master's person, I
don't I I guess I could havebeen more more uh you know
regimented, but I don't think Ihave been.
So I don't other than justtrying to make it to work out
every day and not miss anyswimming, I I I don't do
anything else special.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
No secrets.
My question for you is that youmentioned sleep earlier.
Um, and I've I've had the exactsame progression.
I used to give up sleep to getup in the morning and work out
because I'd think I'd have abetter day if I did that.
Now I don't.
I I let I I get more rest.
(17:43):
Would you tell tell us abouttalk to us about your your your
sleep patterns?
Because as a ER physician, Iknow that must be a little bit
un you know unusual.
And how do you protect yoursleep?
SPEAKER_00 (17:53):
Um, yeah, it's pretty hard.
I was uh till midnight lastnight, and then I'm working till
midnight tomorrow, and thentomorrow I'm working the next
day I'm working until 7 a.m.
I'm working all night for threenights, and then I gotta somehow
recover before nationals nextweek.
And as you get older, it isimpossible.
It's like you you feel I'm notbad the day after a night shift
uh that day, but the day after Iswim slow and I end up a lot of
(18:15):
times getting swimming arrangedso that it ends up I'm I'm
there, but I just try to do thebest I can.
But I'll you know, I'll I'll tryto like take naps before work.
Uh, you know, today's gonna bean exception because I'm
spending lovely time here.
But um I I just I I take a lotof naps and I'm not ashamed of
it.
I'll I'll try to just like youknow, we we got this family
(18:37):
thing we're gonna go do, orwe're gonna do this.
I'm like, you know what?
I gotta go to work in an hourand I just need to lie down for
a half hour, just relax.
But so I it's it's hard and itgets harder as you get older
because it's harder to sleep.
I think most old people like I II wake up three or four times a
night to go number one, and uhit's uh it's tragic.
It's it's hard to be back tosleep.
And uh I don't know.
(18:58):
I don't know how people howpeople do it, but I do the best
I can.
But as uh for me, a lot of it'sjust taking try to take naps
when I can.
SPEAKER_02 (19:04):
But how about injuries?
Yeah, what uh what if uh haveyou had any injuries?
Or you know, if so, what doesthat look like?
SPEAKER_00 (19:13):
Um I've had some you know shoulder issues, uh, you
know, and I I try to do likeevery day or every other day,
I'll do like some shoulder rehabtype stuff that everybody
probably knows about.
But um it it would that thatthat's helped, and I kind of
change my stroke a little bit sothat I don't impinge my shoulder
as much.
(19:33):
Um I've had some back issues.
Um I do I try to do yoga likeonce a week just to that I think
that's out of all the things Ido, I think that helps the most
for my back.
Um so I try to try to do likejust shoulder exercises and
that.
I mean, sometimes I I think theother thing with performance is
like some of my best meets, I Ilike hurt my shoulder like you
(19:55):
know, two or three weeks beforethe big race, and I'll just like
kick and just bit minimize theamount of swimming.
And I'm amazed how much how wellyou could do, even for like the
distance events without with alot of with a lot of rest and
not not actually swimming.
You you get in and you try tokick and you try to do kind of
minimal stuff, but I I I've I'vehad really good success with
even with injured uh doingpretty well on a swim meet.
SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
So I was just telling Kelly that before we
turn the mics on.
It's it's really true.
Rest as you're older, that restline makes a huge um impact on
your performance, you know.
So you can't not rest.
I mean, you can't not work out,you gotta work out.
I I I gotta ask about yourfamily.
How how do they support you ornot in your athletics endeavor?
(20:40):
How do you fit that in with umbeing, you know, having a
family?
SPEAKER_00 (20:44):
Yeah.
Well, they're all adults, uh, sothey're out of the house now, so
it's okay now, but they they allsort of seemed my my daughter
told me once that they were uhall our vacations were always
around races.
And I'm like, you got avacation.
I don't have to tell you.
We went to we went to San Diegoone one year.
I found that uh uh my wife didan open uh bike race on Friday,
an open I did an open race onSaturday, and then we were
(21:08):
biking all week along the coastin San Diego and the Tour de
France was on.
We take them to you know Legoland and all that in the
afternoon, and you know, and andthen the next weekend I found a
triathlon to do, and then weleft it was like an eight-day
thing, and it was kind of cool.
Uh they they just think it's allabout races, and I I guess I'll
I'll just have to live withthat.
Um, but yeah, it it's it's hardto fit things in.
(21:28):
And I I I probably could havebeen a better parent.
My wife, uh, she actually she'sa big bicep, she was like
national champion bike triathlonor uh uh time trial champion,
and she was like the Arizona'sfastest female, like six years
in a row.
So she was pretty fast.
She's done uh a lot of thelonger races, and so we we try
to one-up each other, so that'sgood.
(21:49):
So, like we just she doessomething painful.
She did uh a couple years ago,did the uh Paris Rest Paris race
is like 758 miles in three days.
And uh so we we I do the Englishchannel, she does that, and then
I go do the Catalina channel.
She's doing uh the unbound racethat's in Kansas here.
It's a 200-mile gravel race,it's uh coming up in a month or
so.
So we you know, I see she mightwin.
(22:10):
I I don't think I'm gonna do anymore painful things, so she
might have might have won up tome.
We'll see how it goes.
SPEAKER_01 (22:15):
Do you go and support her when she's racing?
Or like uh the uh Paris PressParis, that's a that's actually
not a race.
SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
Yeah, it's not exactly a race, right?
Yeah, I mean I I I went overthere and followed her around
and kind of got yelled at by theParisians.
They don't they don't they don'tlike they don't like Americans
very much.
I didn't get that I didn't getthat feeling.
But anyway, they so I try tofind pools along the way while
she was out riding and I'd getyelled at by the lady because I
did she didn't speak anyway.
It was it was kind of traumaticfor me, but I I got over it.
(22:43):
No, yeah, I I'm I'm taking theweekend off for her race coming
up and we'll I'll go see if Ican help her out a little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (22:48):
But she and I I read in uh the Your English channel
crossing that she was theresupporting you.
Um Right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
Right.
Her my daughter, I brought mydaughter and her husband out and
they were out there helping too.
SPEAKER_01 (22:59):
So nice.
It's nice.
So are you do your kids dosports or are they just like
totally burned out fromfollowing you and your wife
around?
SPEAKER_00 (23:06):
Um I had a couple, uh they all swam to some degree.
Uh a couple of them swam where Iswam in college.
I had two daughters that swam atBYU.
So yeah.
One of them actually swam forthe same coach that I had for at
there, but he had retired.
So but yeah, they all they allswam to a degree, not as crazy
as me, but anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (23:25):
I love it.
So obviously your sense of humoris one of your, I think I would
observe it as one of your giftsthat helps you get through tough
things.
What else can you tell us aboutyour mindset when you're going
into and let's let's not becauseagain, mortals are, you know, us
mere mortals are not going toprobably do the English Channel
(23:46):
or Catalina or any of swimaround Manhattan.
But when you're in a a prettyhigh pressure situation, so
you're you're heading off, youknow, next week to swim at the
USMS, you know, nationalchampionships.
We're, you know, almost 2,000people are in this meet.
A lot of fast people from allover the country come.
It's it's probably the most highpressure meet for a master.
(24:08):
If if you're if you have uhperformance anxiety as a master
swimmer, this is not the meet toshow up at.
And so what is your mindset whenyou're going into something
where you know you're gonna geta little challenged?
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Um, I I wish I had my mindset now as I when I had a
kid.
When I was a kid, I was kind ofafraid of pain and I was afraid
of other competitors.
And I'm just I don't have thatsame fear anymore.
I just I you know it I don'tknow if it's life or or
emergency work, but it's likewhen somebody shows up with
their like dying baby and you'relike, that that's that's terror
(24:45):
right there.
And I I've I've lived through alot of things, seen a lot of bad
things in the ER that it's likethat's pressure.
What I got what me sporting aspeedo at 54 years old and
trying to do a time is is notreally pressuring me anymore.
I mean, I I've gone through somany things in my life that it's
just it's it's I don't I itdoesn't it doesn't phase me.
I mean I get nervous, you know,but it's not it's not nearly as
(25:07):
bad as when I was younger.
I was just I was kind of likeit's you it's hard to hard to
compete when you're younger.
It's like, yeah, there's thatguy's pretty fast.
I know that guy's pretty fast,or you know, this is gonna
really hurt.
The problem with distance peopleis like you have to just keep,
you know, you don't have anytalents, you have to keep going
longer and longer.
So that that gets more and morepainful.
So that's that's where I'vegone.
I mean, I if I had any talent,I'd be stopping at the 50, but I
(25:30):
I I had to keep going longer sothat I could uh you know do it.
So but it that that it's kind ofhard to get over that pain that
you know, that mental pain thatyou're gonna you're gonna hurt
hurt pretty bad.
So but I think I've gottentougher over the years, that's
for sure.
So with with everything that'sgone on, I think.
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
So do you pay much attention to your competitors?
I mean, are you like, uh, do youpay any attention to your
competitors?
Are you aware that the guy nextto you is, you know, he's he's
gonna give you a run for yourmoney?
SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
Absolutely.
And I and I've noticed uh theones that are my competitors
this year, like, and they'vedone it a lot lately, they
actually like put a lot slowertimes down.
And I'm like, I understand whythey do it.
I just don't know.
I just don't I think if you'regonna if you're gonna win a
national championship, youshould come to the the big boy
heat with the rest of us.
But I I don't know why why theywhy they why they did it.
(26:18):
I'm not calling anybody out, butI am.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:22):
So I I hear are people actually doing that?
They they deliberately do slowertimes to be in a different heat.
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
There's uh there's there's there's a lot of people
that are very good that sandbag,and I don't understand I I I get
it, I guess if you're like a 50swimmer and you want clear
water, but if you're like a mileswimmer or whatever, I don't
know what I don't I don't knowwhy they're they're doing it.
I I I like I like them all, Ijust don't understand it, and I
don't I don't think I'll everget an explanation out of them.
(26:49):
Maybe they just don't want tothe pressure of it, but it it's
interesting to me because it'ssome of the people that are like
at least a couple of them arelike the I would say like the
best uh uh distance swimmers inlike their body of work is the
best of master swimming.
And I I I've noticed thatthey've done that more recently,
and I'm I'm not sure why they'redoing that, but anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (27:09):
So well, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw in a fellow
distance swimmers gripe.
Uh so they're mixing us men andwomen in the mile and the
thousand, which you knowseparates us from who we need to
be racing anyway.
So maybe the person that, youknow, there are some fast young,
you know, young bucks women thatare probably gonna be in your
(27:30):
your heat.
So they might have knocked youout from being next to the
person that you need to raceanyway, even if that person was
entered with the right time.
So um I I don't get the wholemixing of the genders for this
meet for this meet.
SPEAKER_00 (27:42):
Yeah, I don't I there there's a lot of things
that perplex me.
I don't know why they don't.
I think they're trying, theythey let you do both, but like
it's like very hard to do.
I mean, I did last year, I didthe 1650 and a thousand, and
it's hard to do that in one day.
I mean, going full on on a 1650and then right out like two
hours later doing a thousand,it's pretty hard.
And I don't know why I thinkthat they they're letting you do
(28:04):
it, but it's like no one's dumbenough to do it.
Not very many people are dumbenough to do it, but it'd be
nice if they maybe put one atthe front and one at the end.
I guess they don't have the timefor it.
I don't know what they're tryingto do, but it and then the
mixing genders, I I could seewhy a woman wouldn't want to be
they're a lot, they'll make alot more waves and and that.
So I get that too.
And and you're not with yourcompetition, but um, I've I I I
(28:24):
complain a lot to them, but theystop.
They don't I could tell theydon't listen to me, so I
stopped.
SPEAKER_02 (28:31):
Well, I know at Long Course, uh Long Course Nationals
are having the 800 and the 1500on different days, and you can
enter them both.
SPEAKER_00 (28:37):
So are you sure about that?
They usually do they do theythey usually do it.
You can you can only they'll youcan only do one of them though
when they do that.
They are gonna let you do both.
SPEAKER_02 (28:45):
It it looks like they are.
Order of events is out andthey're on different days.
So I'm thinking maybe they will.
SPEAKER_00 (28:52):
Yeah, I don't think they have the rules out because
every time they're gonna.
Oh, maybe the rules aren't out.
Oh they don't make they don'tlet you do both of them, I
think.
But that's what they've done inthe past.
But I I'm sadly not gonna makeit.
I I I I I I I've had to bow upto a family uh thing, and I'm
kind of sad about it.
But anyway, it's uh I'm notgonna make summer national snow.
SPEAKER_01 (29:09):
Well, I just I just I think you know, I'm listening
to you, you're soself-deprecating, you know.
You use you you use your senseof humor and and and I love how
you compare real life, you know,which you're you're really
seeing that some of the ugliestparts of life in the ER and the
most difficult parts.
But I I'd love to know ifthey're you know, just real
(29:30):
talk.
You know, you are a champion.
You're doing incredible things,and it's it's not just good luck
and it, you know, it's not theMMs.
You know, what other routines oror you know, what things that
you say to yourself, you know,what we really want to get your
secrets.
Come on.
SPEAKER_00 (29:48):
Um I jeez, I wish I could tell you anyway.
I don't I really don't mind thesec secret telling.
I just don't know what they are.
I really don't.
I I I for me I just I just Ijust Show up every day.
I don't and I mean I I have alarge bloated panace here, and I
I maybe that's making me morebuoyant.
(30:09):
I don't know.
I just don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (30:12):
Consistency.
I like that.
I'll take that.
I like consistency and showingup.
I think that is definitely aroutine.
So, but you like what do you sayto yourself in the middle of
this painful you're gonna swim1615 next week?
So and it's gonna start to hurtat some point where you're gonna
be in the 40s and you know,you're gonna want you know, you
(30:33):
got 20 more slips and you're inpain.
What what are you what is yourinner voice saying?
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
Uh well it's just why do I do this to myself?
It's it's you know that that uhyou know I really like the
thousand better than thethousand better than the mile,
because a thousand you'd startdying about this eight eight
hundred and you got only twohundred.
But the the mile you die abouteleven hundred, and you got a
long ways to go still.
And it's it's uh it's justtrying to stay with it, try to
(31:01):
keep your stroke together andand uh and uh don't blow up.
I mean, I just it's just it'sit's just gutting it out.
It's it's a tough event.
I mean, you wouldn't think athousand and a sixteen fifty
would be all that different, butit is.
I mean, I go totally differentpaces for both of them, and it's
it's just uh it's a it's adifferent I I can I can put my
head around a thousand a lotbetter, but uh, 1650 is just a
(31:23):
tough event.
You just gotta you just gottajust know know the pain's coming
and be ready for it.
And hopefully you've you knowprepared yourself and you know
the person that's the personthat's uh sandbagged next to you
that's gonna like now come byyou.
There's nothing worse thangetting uh at a long distance
event where somebody you got youwent out too hard and this guy
(31:43):
just comes right by you andyou're just you're crying like a
little baby, but you just gottayou just gotta stay with it.
That's all I I don't know.
You just gotta stay with it andjust try to stay stay with your
your stroke and everything.
SPEAKER_01 (31:53):
Is there anybody you're you're trying to impress
when you get out of the pool?
Is it your wife or yourco-workers or your I mean, is
there anybody you're thinkingabout like I gotta do decent on
this because otherwise I'm gonnaI'm gonna be, you know, have to
hang my hit.
SPEAKER_00 (32:05):
I I mean I do it, I mostly do it, do it for myself.
It's always it's always everyyear, it's like I I go nowhere
near what I can do in a in arace in workout.
Like some people, I don't know,they they tell you about this
high intensity training.
I've never been able to do it.
I have never been able to comeclose to it.
If I did a 500 like hard in inworkout, I might be able to go
(32:26):
like a 530, 525.
But I I one of probably very few54 plus year olds in the world
that can go under five minutesand a five uh 500.
And I don't know how where itcomes from, I don't know what
what it is, but it's like so.
Every time I go into a meet, I'mlike, is this the time I'm gonna
blow up and suck and like dowhat I think I can do?
(32:47):
Like I I never think I can dowhat I can do, but I end up
doing.
Like I just I I always I'mamazed by because I like anytime
I work out, I just don't evencome close to anything that's so
I I just expect that I'm gonnago that fast, but I I have never
done anything in workout to saythat you should be able to do
that time.
So it's it's always been it'salways amazing to me, and it
(33:07):
always there's a little bit offear in me every time I go to a
meeting.
It's like this could be the timethat I just like totally make a
fool on myself because it's likeI entered this time and I go
like a minute slower.
SPEAKER_02 (33:16):
So that's so funny.
So you so you're racing foryourself.
So just in a in kind of anutshell, how do how do you
taper or recommend tapering foruh uh a mile?
Because we do, even if peoplearen't swimming a mile at
nationals, they swim a milemaybe in open water or they're
(33:36):
training, you know, they'redoing a mile time trial to prep
for their triathlon.
If it, you know, you're you're aweek and a half out now.
What are you gonna do betweennow and nationals?
SPEAKER_00 (33:49):
Um, I don't I don't do a lot different because it's
a mile.
I I've been doing the same taperfor like 20 years.
Uh Chris Houchins, I went to thehigh altitude camp in uh in
Color Springs one year, and shehad a printed out.
She was she coached forIndianapolis.
She had a printed out taper, andI just I I've used that like
multiple times a year.
It's and it's not necessarilyfor a mile, but for some reason
(34:10):
it still works.
Like it, I don't I do a lot, Ido some broken 200s, uh, you
know, 10 seconds rest, and Idon't do anything long really.
And it it seems to, I it gets methe but I think during the year
I do a lot of just more pay likekind of distance ish work.
And so I think I you just don'tget out of shape, but it it
helps me just get the speed, youknow, the broken 200s and those
(34:31):
kind of things to get the speedfor for everything.
So I don't do anything specialfor for the mile, but it it does
uh it seems to translate it andyou don't you don't lose a lot
of shape.
Just you wouldn't you wouldn'tthink you you would you would it
would work for that, but itseems to have been working for
me.
SPEAKER_01 (34:47):
What's a broken 200?
SPEAKER_00 (34:48):
Just so so you go like uh like uh 450s and you
take like 10 seconds rest.
So you're kind of you're highintensity, but you're you're
only so you you're taking only10 seconds rest in between, then
you just add your time, and thatwould be your time for a 200.
Um I'll put like I'll put likeflippers on just to get it so
pretend like I'm faster than Ireally am, and and it helps, you
(35:10):
know, kind of a predictor ofwhat you could maybe do a 200
in.
SPEAKER_02 (35:14):
So cool, cool.
Um, has there uh ever been a anyhuge obstacles in your life?
SPEAKER_00 (35:23):
Um the last two years have been sort of chaos
for my family.
We were we've had so many, youknow.
I uh my my family had to move,uh my s daughter had to move in
with us with her kids, and andmy wife had a she did a 24-hour
bike race, and you know, it washead injury, clavicle fracture,
scapula fracture.
My other daughter was gettingabused by her husband, and then
(35:46):
COVID hit, and you know, I got awe lost a lot of shifts, so I
was not working a lot, and endedup losing my job.
That's kind of how I ended upmoving here, and it's just uh it
it I there was I think therewere two obstacles that I had
going through that last fewyears.
I think maybe everybody wentthrough a lot with COVID and
everything, but the the the twoobstacles, I think one of them
(36:06):
is like the people I workedwith, I like worked with them
for 24 years.
They're my friends, they were myfriends at least.
They they kind of turned on me,and it's like it's hard to get
that sort of that justifiableanger out of your out of your
out of your head.
And you can go at a religioussort of standpoint and say, Oh,
you know, you know, Jesus toldus to forgive 70 times seven, so
(36:27):
we should do that.
But you know, you just want tohold on to it.
And I those people that you feellike betrayed you, they they
don't they haven't given you asecond thought.
But the way what it's useful foris to get that out of your head,
you have to forgive them becauseto move on.
You you I've never had to dothis.
It was very hard because it'slike they don't think about me
(36:48):
at all, and it and I just likewas thinking about them every
day and wishing cancer on themor something bad, you know, and
then just like I gotta get thisout of my head.
Like I just got and so theobstacle by itself is not a it's
something you overcome, it'sjust like a process.
But that was one of theobstacles I got with that.
And then the other obstacle Ithink with that was this feeling
of inadequacy, you know, likeI'm not good enough, people
(37:08):
don't want me anymore.
And the spiritual side of mesaid, Okay, um, you know, got
you're you're son of God, Godloves you, and you know, you
just turn it over to God.
My intellectual side said, youknow, you need to get away from
people that don't believe in youand hate hate you or whatever
they are.
Uh, you got to be patient withyourself, you got to be, you
(37:29):
know, you you gotta bepersistent, but you try to be
better, but be patient withyourself.
And then kind of my likeprimitive self, I think swimming
helps that because it's like Iwant to get my mojo back.
And and I just I want to go, youknow.
So instead of like going andpunching somebody, I just like I
think I trained a lot harderlast year.
And I I think 2021 was probablymy my best year.
(37:50):
I don't think I don't think I'mnot sure anybody's ever done a
pool and a long distanceall-star in one year.
I think I had three number oneworld rankings next last year
and 14 top 10.
I had 14 pool and all uh openwater uh uh national
championships.
The then the at nationals lastyear, I I won overall for the
(38:12):
mile, and then I at the SanAntonio open water, I won
overall for both the mile andthree mile.
I just I I just it helps me, ithelped me get out of that, uh
the sort of the the primitiveside.
So there was a spiritual sideand intellectual side, and I
don't think I intentionally wentthrough all that, but it's uh
looking back on it, I thinkthat's kind of helped me what
what I went through to getthrough those those problems.
(38:34):
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
Yeah, and that that's intellectual and
primitive, yeah.
Almost physical.
SPEAKER_02 (38:40):
Definitely you you put a lot of uh that power into
your swimming, which is you knowwhat uh we just interviewed
Amanda Coker last our lastepisode on um her riding.
She rode 237 miles a day for ayear, Kurt, and um you know
broke the world record men's andwomen, and she was, you know.
(39:01):
This was so lady bits, by theway.
Yeah, yeah.
No kidding.
No kidding.
SPEAKER_00 (39:05):
But I gotta hear that from my wife all the time.
Sorry, carry on.
SPEAKER_02 (39:08):
No, that's you're we hear you.
Um Maria rides great recumbentbikes with.
SPEAKER_01 (39:14):
I was gonna say Amanda did some of it on a
recumbent.
Your wife can also go recumbent.
That's great, yeah.
Cruise bikes are greatrecumbents.
SPEAKER_02 (39:21):
But um, no, I I mean, but anyway, we find that
champions like you and Amandahave that driving something
deeper.
Amanda was bullied, she wascoming back from being
overweight, she had a lotdriving her like you did.
So I love that as a takeawaythat sometimes when you're
getting dished up just a crapsandwich, you're gonna eat it
(39:44):
and produce something reallynice that's powerful.
SPEAKER_01 (39:46):
When I was angry, I did some of my best events ever.
I mean, like truly angry whensomebody had truly offended me
in a big way.
I was I was an amazing athlete.
Or I was upset because you know,my my sister got cancer, and
it's just like, yeah, I love thedivision between spiritual,
intellectual, and primitive.
I think that's so on point.
I've never heard anybodyelucidate it that way.
It's really good.
SPEAKER_02 (40:08):
Okay, now uh it's the fun stuff.
We got to get you to a map.
So you can get you out of here.
But are you this is actuallycalled the sprinter round?
And I know you are a distanceperson, but I saw that you have
gone like 24 in the 50 free.
Come on, you can sprint.
Um, and that's now.
So I don't even know what youwent as a as a kid, but I know
as a 54-year-old, you're goingin the 24s.
(40:29):
So that is it.
SPEAKER_00 (40:30):
One time in college, one time in college, they put me
in the 50 and I beat all the Ibit all the 50 swimmers and they
were all pushed off on me therest of the day.
It was a it was a dual meeting.
I put them in, they they wereall sad.
They thought they were gonnatake me.
But anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (40:43):
Well, there is definitely something that you
gotta have some type of speed tobe able to hold on for you know
that kind of pace.
But all right, so this is thesprinter round.
Are you ready?
SPEAKER_00 (40:54):
I was born ready.
SPEAKER_02 (40:55):
Okay.
Cat or dog?
SPEAKER_00 (41:00):
Dog.
SPEAKER_02 (41:02):
Red or blue?
SPEAKER_00 (41:03):
Red.
SPEAKER_02 (41:04):
Milk chocolate or dark chocolate.
SPEAKER_00 (41:09):
It's an abomination.
Dark chocolate is anabomination.
Milk chocolate.
SPEAKER_02 (41:12):
I totally agree with that.
No, of course.
Mountains or beach?
Beach.
Football or baseball?
SPEAKER_00 (41:18):
Baseball.
SPEAKER_02 (41:19):
iPhone or Android?
SPEAKER_00 (41:22):
Android, that's just because I'm poor.
I don't have anything againstthe iPhone.
I'm just poor.
SPEAKER_02 (41:26):
We're Android too.
Maria and I you're the onlyother person on the planet.
Um coffee or tea?
SPEAKER_00 (41:32):
I don't drink any of that stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (41:34):
Wow, that's interesting.
No caffeine?
SPEAKER_00 (41:38):
Well, I'm uh LDS.
You've heard that?
Yeah, we don't drink coffee too.
Oh, gotcha.
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (41:44):
No alcohol, no, no caffeine of any kind.
SPEAKER_02 (41:46):
Okay.
Morning person.
MMs are okay.
SPEAKER_00 (41:48):
Yeah, they're okay.
That's that's my vice.
SPEAKER_02 (41:50):
I got caffeine in that.
There's some caffeine.
I'm a hypocrite.
Morning person or night owl?
SPEAKER_00 (41:57):
Um, neither, man.
I'm right in the middle.
10 a.m.
to 2 p.m.
If I could work that shift, I'ddo that all day, every day.
Don't have to get up too early,don't have to stay up late.
SPEAKER_03 (42:06):
Right in the middle.
SPEAKER_00 (42:07):
And it's only four hours, so I'm gonna go straight
through.
I wouldn't take lunch oranything.
Just 10 a.m.
to two.
I was no lunch.
SPEAKER_02 (42:15):
I love it.
All right, Marie's got some foryou.
Favorite favorite color.
SPEAKER_00 (42:19):
Yeah, I think I I used to think I was a red guy,
but I now I'm I think I'm anorange guy.
I I don't I I I I wanted to bered, and I'm like, no, I think
I'm orange.
Took me a long time to getthere.
SPEAKER_01 (42:30):
Yeah, my husband is orange.
Yeah, that's a rare favoritecolor, but I like it.
Favorite pizza topping.
SPEAKER_00 (42:35):
Pepperoni.
SPEAKER_01 (42:36):
Favorite vegetable.
SPEAKER_00 (42:39):
I don't think it exists.
SPEAKER_01 (42:41):
Potatoes.
They're vegetables.
That count.
SPEAKER_00 (42:43):
Okay, potatoes, then I would do that.
SPEAKER_01 (42:48):
And butter.
Butter.
Yeah.
Favorite swim complex in theU.S.
SPEAKER_00 (42:52):
Um, I've always liked uh Texas.
I think that was that's uh oneof my favorites.
SPEAKER_01 (42:57):
Which is there should I know what what you mean
when you say Oh, University ofTexas, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (43:01):
My my my brother swam there and I went there and
swam there one summer and it wasit was a good it was fond
memories.
SPEAKER_01 (43:07):
What kind what kind of music do you like?
SPEAKER_00 (43:09):
I like my favorite is like Joe Jackson.
You ever heard of Joe Jackson?
Yeah, I'll show you.
SPEAKER_01 (43:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Shoe size.
SPEAKER_00 (43:19):
Yeah, my shoe size, 12.
SPEAKER_01 (43:21):
Okay.
Uh do you have siblings?
unknown (43:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (43:25):
Six of them.
SPEAKER_01 (43:25):
Six, yeah.
A favorite Star Wars character.
SPEAKER_00 (43:29):
Um, I yeah, I um I might disappoint you with this,
but I I I can't stand a wholeStar Wars Enterprise.
SPEAKER_01 (43:35):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (43:35):
I just wear I I don't know, man.
I don't I don't get it.
I don't understand it.
When I would the first one cameout when I was like 10 years
old, and I was like, I was like,it's okay, why are we going to
this 10 times?
I don't understand.
Can you cook?
I mean, I I make a mean waffleand a mean raspberry crepes.
That's I I do some breakfastitems that are pretty good, and
I would challenge anybody.
SPEAKER_01 (43:57):
Okay.
What word comes to mind when youfirst dive in the water?
SPEAKER_00 (44:02):
Um I mean, I I I don't know if it's a word, it's
just a relaxation.
I like that's just that's mythat's my zen there when I get I
jump in that just uh just glide,and you're just like I don't
know if I I get a word in myhead that it just that it just
feels you know peaceful andrelaxing.
SPEAKER_01 (44:19):
Sort of maybe glide.
I like that.
SPEAKER_02 (44:21):
That's I like Zen.
That's great.
Zen works works too.
Oh Kurt, this has been soawesome.
So fun.
So fun.
Yeah, so so fun.
Really appreciate your time anduh just wish you all the best in
everything you're doing in thepool, out of the pool with your
family.
And um just thank you, thankyou.
Win win win.
SPEAKER_00 (44:40):
Thanks, thanks for having me.
Yeah, all right, take care.
All right, bye.
SPEAKER_02 (44:45):
Thanks so much for listening to this champions mojo
Encore episode.
If it inspired you, pleasefollow the show, share it with a
friend, and consider leaving aquick review.
It truly helps.
And don't forget, my new book,False Cure, is available at
Amazon and Barnes Noble.
I'll be back in January 2026with all new episodes to help
(45:07):
you live well, swim well, andkeep your mojo going.
Hello, friends.
This is Kelly Pallas, host ofChampions Mojo, your place for
better health, resilience, andmaster swimming.
I'm taking a short break fromrecording new episodes of
Champions Mojo for two excitingreasons.
First, I'm launching my latestbook, False Cure.
It's a whistleblowinginvestigative journalism book
(00:24):
about a denied health epidemic.
If you'd like more informationon that, it's in the show notes.
The second and most compellingreason I'm on a break is here at
Champions Mojo, we're preparingfor the January 2026 reboot of
powerful new weekly episodeswith expert guest interviews,
(00:46):
inspiring topics, and tips totake your mindset, health, and
personal performance to the nextlevel.
We will be announcing someincredible partnerships with the
show, and I guarantee what wehave in store for you will
empower you and keep your mojostrong in the new year.
While I'm preparing some of thisgreat stuff, we've selected some
(01:10):
of our best shows ever for anEncore series.
My hope is that if this is yoursecond time listening to this
episode, you'll take away evenmore insight and motivation.
Or if it's your first time,you'll love this episode as much
as everyone else did.
So settle in and enjoy thisEncore presentation in its
(01:31):
entirety.
I am co-hosting with MariaParker.
Hey Maria.
Hi, Kelly.
It's so great to be with youtoday.
Yes.
Before we tell you all about ourspecial guest today, Kurt Dixon,
let's welcome him to the showwhile he sits there.
Hey, Kurt.
unknown (01:47):
Hey Kurt.
SPEAKER_00 (01:48):
Hello, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
Great, great to see you.
So great to have you, Kurt.
Yes.
So a masters athlete champion.
These masters athletes are trulyamazing.
They're living full lives withday jobs outside of their
stellar accomplishments asathlete.
And we are in the presence ofsomeone who is a true
(02:10):
inspiration in Kurt Dixon.
He is a full-time ER physician.
He has been on the front linesof COVID.
We can talk with him about thata little.
He said it is slowing down, butyou know that he's been training
hard while he's been an ERphysician.
His master swimming resumespeaks to what a champion he is.
(02:31):
Currently, Kurt is 54 years old,specializing in the longer
freestyle events and backstroke.
He's been a US master's nationalchampion 95 times, which means
95 All-American honors.
He's also a two-time Fena worldrecord holder, seven-time USMS
long distance all-star.
(02:51):
And in 2021, in the 50 to 54men's age group, he added his
first ever pool all-star honor,which is the highest honor in
U.S.
master swimming.
But there's more, isn't there,Maria?
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (03:05):
Wow.
He's not just been earning U.S.
master swimming awards, he'salso completed the highest honor
in marathon swimming, known asthe Triple Crown of Marathon
Swimming, which get ready,includes the swim around
Manhattan, which is 28 and ahalf miles, the English Channel
Crossing, 21 miles, and swimmingthe Catalina Channel 20.2 miles,
(03:27):
which in 2021 he earned thefastest time of the year in just
over nine hours.
And if that wasn't enough forus, he's also a five-time Iron
Man finisher.
So let's not delay anymore andget to finding out what makes
this incredible champion techKirk Dixon.
Welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
Thanks.
Great to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (03:47):
So glad to have you.
SPEAKER_02 (03:49):
Yeah, Kurt, I we're just so excited.
I think there's just millions ofquestions we have.
We're going to start off withhow do you have time to train
for such long events with aschedule of an ER physician?
SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
It's just important enough to me to make the time.
I've I've always I work a lot ofweird hours.
It's a different time every day.
And it's hard to get into aschedule or a routine, but it's
important enough to me to justkind of carve out some time to
do a little bit every day.
SPEAKER_01 (04:18):
Do you have, do you have like, even though you don't
have a routine, do you have alike be always before work or
always after work kind of thinggoing?
Or do you just every day wake upand say, okay, today it's going
to be blah, blah, blah?
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
I usually try to go after work because work kind of
makes me sad and I don't wantto, I don't want to be sadder by
being more tired.
But uh I I try to do it after,but I mean if it's if I'm like
today, I'm I'm in a few, I'mgoing in in about an hour or so.
So I'll I swam this morning, butI usually I don't like to get up
super early anymore.
I I I had 20 years of that and Idon't really need it anymore.
(04:51):
So I don't do like the 4 a.m., 5a.m.
stuff anymore.
So I I usually try to do it, youknow, after if I can.
SPEAKER_02 (04:57):
So you're gonna swim twice today?
SPEAKER_00 (05:00):
No, I'm just gonna swim once today.
I swam this morning and then I'mgoing to work in a little bit
here.
SPEAKER_02 (05:05):
Oh, oh, so when you get off, it'll actually be
tomorrow, maybe?
SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
Well, it kind of will, it kind of will be, but
I'll probably just go since I'mtapering, I'll probably just do
once today.
I don't usually do a lot oftwo-a-days anymore.
That's the beauty of masterswimming.
You don't have to do two-a daysanymore.
You do whatever you want.
SPEAKER_02 (05:19):
So, what does that look like?
What is what is a general weekof, you know, we see that or we
hear that you're not doing um,you know, a schedule, but is
there a certain number ofyardage per week or a certain
number of days or a certainnumber of um pace sets, or what
does that look like for you?
SPEAKER_00 (05:40):
I it's kind of various.
I and my my rest times are morewhen I have like more work, so I
end up like just maybe doingmore easy stuff.
But I worked yesterday and uhtill midnight or so, and then I
today I have I'm doing it, I dida taper workout.
But I mean in general I do uhyou know three to four thousand
a day, and it's mostly for me,it's mostly I actually do the
(06:02):
same set almost 70% of the time.
Um it's kind of a weird, it's itjust it's just easy.
I don't have to think about it.
I just go and do the sameworkout a lot, actually.
So it's what is that?
SPEAKER_02 (06:12):
Yeah.
What is that set?
SPEAKER_00 (06:15):
It's not all that exciting, but it's I do like
three or four three hundredslike freestyle on like four
minutes, and I try to, you know,descend them, and then I do
four, three or four two hundredsum backstroke on three.
Just try to descend those andthen I'll do some pulling and
kicking and get out mostly.
That's about my general dayusually.
SPEAKER_02 (06:34):
Yeah, just to translate that, because I know
there will be people that mightnot understand that quick
jargon.
Um, so the 400s are on a 115base.
I mean the 300s are on a 115base and the 200s backstroke are
on a 130 base.
So that's that's a pretty,pretty uh tight interval for
most mortals.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
Um but three, go ahead.
Yeah, my question was do yougenerally swim just whenever,
you know, is your pool like a Yand you just get over there and
swim whenever there are otherpeople around?
Do you try to ever makepractices with another with a
group?
SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
Uh where I'm at, there's nobody else.
I've um yeah, I lived in Phoenixfor 24 years and there was
nobody there either.
I mean, there's places if youwanted to travel, I just never
was uh I used I sounded like Iwasted a lot of time going to
you know 30 minutes or 45minutes to wherever else
somebody is.
So I I generally train alone.
Some people have a hard timewith that.
(07:29):
I don't I don't mind it as much.
Um as a master swimmer, I can,you know, if I don't feel great,
I don't have to worry aboutbracing somebody.
I just do what do what is bestfor me and and it so it takes a
little pressure off it andactually makes it more enjoyable
for me.
But some people absolutely haveto have somebody else they won't
do it.
So everybody's different.
But for me, I like just kind ofswimming on my own.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Have you always been self-coached, or do you or have
you had a coach in the past?
SPEAKER_00 (07:55):
I as master's athlete, never.
I've always just swam on my own.
So I'd I've been doing thissince I don't know, 92 or 93 or
so.
And I've never really had acoach.
SPEAKER_02 (08:06):
So yeah, so um we we read kind of your your master's
highlights, but for you know,your background as swimming at
Brigham Young University, youwere a team captain and did
incredibly fast times as acollege swimmer.
What do you think that you carryover from your college days that
(08:28):
have helped you as a master'sswimmer?
SPEAKER_00 (08:31):
Um I used to think that that maybe swimming, like I
used to somebody think I wasmaybe better at it because I
worked so hard at it, but Ithink talent does have some role
in in things.
I don't I think it helps, it ithelps to be have some
background, and especially atechnical sport like swimming,
because I see I did I've done alot of triathlons, and uh it
(08:53):
seems like most triathletes justpretty much ignore the swim.
And then and you can do thatkind of because it's not that
big of part of any triathlon,but it it is the the you know
you can die from it too.
It it's very it's so they Ithink it's important to have
I've been in some the first IronMan I did, uh it was Iron Man
Utah, the guy died in it.
So, but it is it I think theythey tend to ignore it, and uh I
(09:16):
think it's helpful just to dothat.
Um, for for me, I used to do alot of triathlons, and over the
years I've kind of maybe I'vegotten lazy, but I just feel
like uh I could spend threehours being a like a above
average uh triathlete.
I could spend like maybe an houra day being one of the best in
the world at masters for me.
So like it just for me, I'vegotten like just more focused.
(09:38):
I just I I think it's I like tobe good at something and and I
like I really enjoy triathlon,but it just, you know, I it's
just so much time, and it's justit was just better just to be
good at something and just keepkeep going with it and also
spend too much time with it.
SPEAKER_01 (09:52):
Do you do you when you're you know, you do these
amazingly long swims?
And I do long bike rides, so Iunderstand what that's like
alone.
Um, you know, what do you whatdo you think about?
Do you think about work or doyou just breathe?
You know, what do you thinkabout when you're doing these
long either practices or events?
SPEAKER_00 (10:10):
Uh the longer swims is sort of you got to check out
a little bit.
It's uh you know, the Catalinaand the English channel, you're
just you're just trying to likeI a lot of times I'll just blank
out, or sometimes I'll just singsongs in my head, or uh it's
it's it's it's variable.
Sometimes you just think aboutlittle problems you have or
whatever, but it's uh it'smostly checking out.
(10:31):
I mean, you you think abouttrying to try to clo across the
English channel, it's about80,000 strokes, and you just
have to just it's uh you Iremember when I was doing
Catalina a few months ago, and Iwas just like, it's just pitch
black, and you're looking off,like, I don't know if I want to
do this.
It's just like it's justdarkness, and you just there's
nothing to focus on.
There's little critters swimmingaround, and it's kind of creepy,
and it's you just kind of haveto check out a little bit, I
think.
But it's it's it's one one stepat a time, I think.
(10:53):
That's you know that that helps.
So that begs the question, why?
I don't think I like myself.
I like to abuse myself.
I'm the youngest of sevenchildren, and I just I I think
I've just gotten used to justbeating on myself and and and I
don't know.
It's just we're we're all byfamily's pretty competitive,
though.
But it it I don't know, it mustbe some sort of uh I think there
is a mental illness I have.
I'm not really sure.
SPEAKER_01 (11:13):
I haven't put a finger on it, but you're you're
you're kind of being funny, butum, you know, as a physician,
you know, you you see you do seemental illness.
They walk into the ER everysingle day, I'm sure.
Um it's it's no, I I I'd I'dlove you for you to go a little
bit deeper on that.
Like, you know, you you keepchallenging yourself with these
(11:34):
really tough, tough things.
Um, and you know, could I wantyoungest of seven, but you're
54, you got nothing to prove,you've done it all, you know.
So why?
Why do you keep on like what'snext and why would you do that
next thing?
SPEAKER_00 (11:47):
There's an old Warren Zevon song.
I feel I'd rather feel bad thanfeel nothing at all.
And I think that uh uh for me, Ijust feel more alive when I when
I do things.
I mean, there's not it just itgives me more meaning, I think,
to my life.
I don't know.
It's it's uh sometimes I feellike it's kind of lame.
I'm out, I'm 54 and I'm in aspeedo, about ready to go to the
(12:08):
nationals in a few weeks, andit's like, why does anybody you
know, like why does anybodycare?
But it's like, you know what?
I I enjoy that, it makes mehappy, so I I do it.
But that it there's probably uha little of you know, this
feeling of inadequacy that youget people struggle with too.
This you know, you got to proveyourself, and you still and some
people have it stronger thanothers, and I think I have it
pretty strong, and you just youkeep wanting to prove yourself,
(12:31):
but there there is a little ofjust I think it helps you just
feel for me, it helps you feelhappy, so that's why I do it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
I love that.
Yeah, yeah.
So discomfort, you know, youlike the discomfort or like to
at least be done with it, or thephysical you said I'd rather
feel nothing than or feelsomething than nothing at all.
That's interesting.
Okay.
Go ahead, Kelly.
Sorry.
SPEAKER_02 (12:53):
Your your master's resume is amazing.
Is there anything within themaster's community that you have
not done yet that you wouldstill like to do?
Like what's on the list?
SPEAKER_00 (13:04):
Um, I I keep eyeing uh like world records that are
like individual.
I have like I've got some relayworld records that that have
gone, but I'd like to get anindividual one.
But I I I I I eyed them like 10years ago, and then by the time
I get there, someone's like justcrushed it.
So uh I'm getting old enoughthat I'm getting closer.
So there's there's there's onethat I I was looking at maybe
(13:26):
that I can maybe get coming uphere, but I don't know.
It's one of those things.
Yeah, there's not not a lot ofother things that I really want
to do, but I yeah, I would liketo get an individual world
record at some point.
I'm not sure how meaningful itis when you're 110, but you
know, right up.
SPEAKER_02 (13:41):
It does, it means a lot.
Now live everyone.
I I'm I'm just in the 60 agegroup and and I see that.
It's like, okay, just show, justkeep showing up.
SPEAKER_03 (13:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (13:51):
You, I I went through your database, your USMS
database, and looked at yourtimes.
And it appears to me that youare not slowing down much, if
any at all.
If you, you know, arguably, ifyou took kind of an average of
your 200, 500,000, 1650, youknow, you might have you might
(14:11):
be faster in the the 500, butslower in the 200, or faster in
the mile, but slower in the1000.
But you're you're you're holdingyour own with these times that
are pretty incredible from yourthir 35.
In fact, you have some times nowat 55 that are actually faster
than when you were 35, which umtell us how how you're
(14:31):
continuing to maintain this fastpace.
SPEAKER_00 (14:38):
Um, so like I won my Twitter backstroke in 1996 with
a 217, and I won it 20 yearslater with the same time.
So it's I I don't I go well, Iwish I knew the answer to it.
Um, but I like I like to think Iit's because I work hard and I'm
consistent.
I don't miss workouts.
If I don't feel like something,I'll if I'm having a bad day,
(15:00):
I'll just go swim a little easy.
And I usually swim six days aweek, right regardless.
I don't know if that's it or Godfeels sorry for me, or if if
it's like if it's if if I agebetter than other people, there
are people I like would beat thecrap out of me 20 years ago that
I could either beat now or orbeat or have a good race with
(15:21):
them or or beat them prettybadly now.
So I don't know, I really don'tknow what it is that I've done.
Like I I I have tried to beconsistent, and I don't know if
that's a secret if I just havehave you know good genes and I
age better than other people.
I mean, I my patients used totell me like, you know, not too
long ago they looked like a12-year-old, but I I don't have
that problem anymore.
People definitely think I'm oldnow, but I I think I I I might
(15:44):
have aged a little better thanother people, but I don't know.
I don't really know the answerto that.
But I I've thought about it alot and I really I I can't I
can't tell you for sure what itis.
SPEAKER_02 (15:52):
Consistency and how about your body composition?
Because I I I feel the same way.
Like there are women that justcrushed me in 35, 40, 45, um,
and now you know they're eithernowhere to be found or they're
not, you know, in the top 10anymore.
So are you do you think there'sa, you know, has your body
composition changed?
(16:13):
Has your your dry land routinechanged?
But consistency, can you drilldown a little bit on that?
SPEAKER_00 (16:21):
Well, I mean, I I wish I could say I'd like I I
worked, I mean, uh there's a lotof things I don't do that I
should do.
Like I eat, I eat like I likeMMs and I eat a lot of junk, and
I think I've gotten a lotfatter.
I think since I was in college,I was like 150 pounds and I'm
like 220 now.
So I don't know how.
So uh I I like my desserts.
I do, I do go to workout lot,but I don't I don't do any
(16:43):
weights.
I do zero weights.
So like I've never done weights.
I used to at college go to uhthe weight room and the the
coach would try to kick me outof the weight room because he
didn't know I was the weightcoach, thought I was like didn't
belong there.
And the other swimmers had totell him that I was like the
best swimmer on the team and youcan't kick him out.
It was a good place for anabsolute.
Um I no, I I I think for me itwas, I mean, I do this same
(17:05):
almost the same set every day.
I I I go every day, but I don'tI as a as a master's person, I
don't I I guess I could havebeen more more uh you know
regimented, but I don't think Ihave been.
So I don't other than justtrying to make it to work out
every day and not miss anyswimming, I I I don't do
anything else special.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
No secrets.
My question for you is that youmentioned sleep earlier.
Um, and I've I've had the exactsame progression.
I used to give up sleep to getup in the morning and work out
because I'd think I'd have abetter day if I did that.
Now I don't.
I I let I I get more rest.
(17:43):
Would you tell tell us abouttalk to us about your your your
sleep patterns?
Because as a ER physician, Iknow that must be a little bit
un you know unusual.
And how do you protect yoursleep?
SPEAKER_00 (17:53):
Um, yeah, it's pretty hard.
I was uh till midnight lastnight, and then I'm working till
midnight tomorrow, and thentomorrow I'm working the next
day I'm working until 7 a.m.
I'm working all night for threenights, and then I gotta somehow
recover before nationals nextweek.
And as you get older, it isimpossible.
It's like you you feel I'm notbad the day after a night shift
uh that day, but the day after Iswim slow and I end up a lot of
(18:15):
times getting swimming arrangedso that it ends up I'm I'm
there, but I just try to do thebest I can.
But I'll you know, I'll I'll tryto like take naps before work.
Uh, you know, today's gonna bean exception because I'm
spending lovely time here.
But um I I just I I take a lotof naps and I'm not ashamed of
it.
I'll I'll try to just like youknow, we we got this family
(18:37):
thing we're gonna go do, orwe're gonna do this.
I'm like, you know what?
I gotta go to work in an hourand I just need to lie down for
a half hour, just relax.
But so I it's it's hard and itgets harder as you get older
because it's harder to sleep.
I think most old people like I II wake up three or four times a
night to go number one, and uhit's uh it's tragic.
It's it's hard to be back tosleep.
And uh I don't know.
(18:58):
I don't know how people howpeople do it, but I do the best
I can.
But as uh for me, a lot of it'sjust taking try to take naps
when I can.
SPEAKER_02 (19:04):
But how about injuries?
Yeah, what uh what if uh haveyou had any injuries?
Or you know, if so, what doesthat look like?
SPEAKER_00 (19:13):
Um I've had some you know shoulder issues, uh, you
know, and I I try to do likeevery day or every other day,
I'll do like some shoulder rehabtype stuff that everybody
probably knows about.
But um it it would that thatthat's helped, and I kind of
change my stroke a little bit sothat I don't impinge my shoulder
as much.
(19:33):
Um I've had some back issues.
Um I do I try to do yoga likeonce a week just to that I think
that's out of all the things Ido, I think that helps the most
for my back.
Um so I try to try to do likejust shoulder exercises and
that.
I mean, sometimes I I think theother thing with performance is
like some of my best meets, I Ilike hurt my shoulder like you
(19:55):
know, two or three weeks beforethe big race, and I'll just like
kick and just bit minimize theamount of swimming.
And I'm amazed how much how wellyou could do, even for like the
distance events without with alot of with a lot of rest and
not not actually swimming.
You you get in and you try tokick and you try to do kind of
minimal stuff, but I I I've I'vehad really good success with
even with injured uh doingpretty well on a swim meet.
SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
So I was just telling Kelly that before we
turn the mics on.
It's it's really true.
Rest as you're older, that restline makes a huge um impact on
your performance, you know.
So you can't not rest.
I mean, you can't not work out,you gotta work out.
I I I gotta ask about yourfamily.
How how do they support you ornot in your athletics endeavor?
(20:40):
How do you fit that in with umbeing, you know, having a
family?
SPEAKER_00 (20:44):
Yeah.
Well, they're all adults, uh, sothey're out of the house now, so
it's okay now, but they they allsort of seemed my my daughter
told me once that they were uhall our vacations were always
around races.
And I'm like, you got avacation.
I don't have to tell you.
We went to we went to San Diegoone one year.
I found that uh uh my wife didan open uh bike race on Friday,
an open I did an open race onSaturday, and then we were
(21:08):
biking all week along the coastin San Diego and the Tour de
France was on.
We take them to you know Legoland and all that in the
afternoon, and you know, and andthen the next weekend I found a
triathlon to do, and then weleft it was like an eight-day
thing, and it was kind of cool.
Uh they they just think it's allabout races, and I I guess I'll
I'll just have to live withthat.
Um, but yeah, it it's it's hardto fit things in.
(21:28):
And I I I probably could havebeen a better parent.
My wife, uh, she actually she'sa big bicep, she was like
national champion bike triathlonor uh uh time trial champion,
and she was like the Arizona'sfastest female, like six years
in a row.
So she was pretty fast.
She's done uh a lot of thelonger races, and so we we try
to one-up each other, so that'sgood.
(21:49):
So, like we just she doessomething painful.
She did uh a couple years ago,did the uh Paris Rest Paris race
is like 758 miles in three days.
And uh so we we I do the Englishchannel, she does that, and then
I go do the Catalina channel.
She's doing uh the unbound racethat's in Kansas here.
It's a 200-mile gravel race,it's uh coming up in a month or
so.
So we you know, I see she mightwin.
(22:10):
I I don't think I'm gonna do anymore painful things, so she
might have might have won up tome.
We'll see how it goes.
SPEAKER_01 (22:15):
Do you go and support her when she's racing?
Or like uh the uh Paris PressParis, that's a that's actually
not a race.
SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
Yeah, it's not exactly a race, right?
Yeah, I mean I I I went overthere and followed her around
and kind of got yelled at by theParisians.
They don't they don't they don'tlike they don't like Americans
very much.
I didn't get that I didn't getthat feeling.
But anyway, they so I try tofind pools along the way while
she was out riding and I'd getyelled at by the lady because I
did she didn't speak anyway.
It was it was kind of traumaticfor me, but I I got over it.
(22:43):
No, yeah, I I'm I'm taking theweekend off for her race coming
up and we'll I'll go see if Ican help her out a little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (22:48):
But she and I I read in uh the Your English channel
crossing that she was theresupporting you.
Um Right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
Right.
Her my daughter, I brought mydaughter and her husband out and
they were out there helping too.
SPEAKER_01 (22:59):
So nice.
It's nice.
So are you do your kids dosports or are they just like
totally burned out fromfollowing you and your wife
around?
SPEAKER_00 (23:06):
Um I had a couple, uh they all swam to some degree.
Uh a couple of them swam where Iswam in college.
I had two daughters that swam atBYU.
So yeah.
One of them actually swam forthe same coach that I had for at
there, but he had retired.
So but yeah, they all they allswam to a degree, not as crazy
as me, but anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (23:25):
I love it.
So obviously your sense of humoris one of your, I think I would
observe it as one of your giftsthat helps you get through tough
things.
What else can you tell us aboutyour mindset when you're going
into and let's let's not becauseagain, mortals are, you know, us
mere mortals are not going toprobably do the English Channel
(23:46):
or Catalina or any of swimaround Manhattan.
But when you're in a a prettyhigh pressure situation, so
you're you're heading off, youknow, next week to swim at the
USMS, you know, nationalchampionships.
We're, you know, almost 2,000people are in this meet.
A lot of fast people from allover the country come.
It's it's probably the most highpressure meet for a master.
(24:08):
If if you're if you have uhperformance anxiety as a master
swimmer, this is not the meet toshow up at.
And so what is your mindset whenyou're going into something
where you know you're gonna geta little challenged?
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Um, I I wish I had my mindset now as I when I had a
kid.
When I was a kid, I was kind ofafraid of pain and I was afraid
of other competitors.
And I'm just I don't have thatsame fear anymore.
I just I you know it I don'tknow if it's life or or
emergency work, but it's likewhen somebody shows up with
their like dying baby and you'relike, that that's that's terror
(24:45):
right there.
And I I've I've lived through alot of things, seen a lot of bad
things in the ER that it's likethat's pressure.
What I got what me sporting aspeedo at 54 years old and
trying to do a time is is notreally pressuring me anymore.
I mean, I I've gone through somany things in my life that it's
just it's it's I don't I itdoesn't it doesn't phase me.
I mean I get nervous, you know,but it's not it's not nearly as
(25:07):
bad as when I was younger.
I was just I was kind of likeit's you it's hard to hard to
compete when you're younger.
It's like, yeah, there's thatguy's pretty fast.
I know that guy's pretty fast,or you know, this is gonna
really hurt.
The problem with distance peopleis like you have to just keep,
you know, you don't have anytalents, you have to keep going
longer and longer.
So that that gets more and morepainful.
So that's that's where I'vegone.
I mean, I if I had any talent,I'd be stopping at the 50, but I
(25:30):
I I had to keep going longer sothat I could uh you know do it.
So but it that that it's kind ofhard to get over that pain that
you know, that mental pain thatyou're gonna you're gonna hurt
hurt pretty bad.
So but I think I've gottentougher over the years, that's
for sure.
So with with everything that'sgone on, I think.
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
So do you pay much attention to your competitors?
I mean, are you like, uh, do youpay any attention to your
competitors?
Are you aware that the guy nextto you is, you know, he's he's
gonna give you a run for yourmoney?
SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
Absolutely.
And I and I've noticed uh theones that are my competitors
this year, like, and they'vedone it a lot lately, they
actually like put a lot slowertimes down.
And I'm like, I understand whythey do it.
I just don't know.
I just don't I think if you'regonna if you're gonna win a
national championship, youshould come to the the big boy
heat with the rest of us.
But I I don't know why why theywhy they why they did it.
(26:18):
I'm not calling anybody out, butI am.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:22):
So I I hear are people actually doing that?
They they deliberately do slowertimes to be in a different heat.
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
There's uh there's there's there's a lot of people
that are very good that sandbag,and I don't understand I I I get
it, I guess if you're like a 50swimmer and you want clear
water, but if you're like a mileswimmer or whatever, I don't
know what I don't I don't knowwhy they're they're doing it.
I I I like I like them all, Ijust don't understand it, and I
don't I don't think I'll everget an explanation out of them.
(26:49):
Maybe they just don't want tothe pressure of it, but it it's
interesting to me because it'ssome of the people that are like
at least a couple of them arelike the I would say like the
best uh uh distance swimmers inlike their body of work is the
best of master swimming.
And I I I've noticed thatthey've done that more recently,
and I'm I'm not sure why they'redoing that, but anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (27:09):
So well, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw in a fellow
distance swimmers gripe.
Uh so they're mixing us men andwomen in the mile and the
thousand, which you knowseparates us from who we need to
be racing anyway.
So maybe the person that, youknow, there are some fast young,
you know, young bucks women thatare probably gonna be in your
(27:30):
your heat.
So they might have knocked youout from being next to the
person that you need to raceanyway, even if that person was
entered with the right time.
So um I I don't get the wholemixing of the genders for this
meet for this meet.
SPEAKER_00 (27:42):
Yeah, I don't I there there's a lot of things
that perplex me.
I don't know why they don't.
I think they're trying, theythey let you do both, but like
it's like very hard to do.
I mean, I did last year, I didthe 1650 and a thousand, and
it's hard to do that in one day.
I mean, going full on on a 1650and then right out like two
hours later doing a thousand,it's pretty hard.
And I don't know why I thinkthat they they're letting you do
(28:04):
it, but it's like no one's dumbenough to do it.
Not very many people are dumbenough to do it, but it'd be
nice if they maybe put one atthe front and one at the end.
I guess they don't have the timefor it.
I don't know what they're tryingto do, but it and then the
mixing genders, I I could seewhy a woman wouldn't want to be
they're a lot, they'll make alot more waves and and that.
So I get that too.
And and you're not with yourcompetition, but um, I've I I I
(28:24):
complain a lot to them, but theystop.
They don't I could tell theydon't listen to me, so I
stopped.
SPEAKER_02 (28:31):
Well, I know at Long Course, uh Long Course Nationals
are having the 800 and the 1500on different days, and you can
enter them both.
SPEAKER_00 (28:37):
So are you sure about that?
They usually do they do theythey usually do it.
You can you can only they'll youcan only do one of them though
when they do that.
They are gonna let you do both.
SPEAKER_02 (28:45):
It it looks like they are.
Order of events is out andthey're on different days.
So I'm thinking maybe they will.
SPEAKER_00 (28:52):
Yeah, I don't think they have the rules out because
every time they're gonna.
Oh, maybe the rules aren't out.
Oh they don't make they don'tlet you do both of them, I
think.
But that's what they've done inthe past.
But I I'm sadly not gonna makeit.
I I I I I I I've had to bow upto a family uh thing, and I'm
kind of sad about it.
But anyway, it's uh I'm notgonna make summer national snow.
SPEAKER_01 (29:09):
Well, I just I just I think you know, I'm listening
to you, you're soself-deprecating, you know.
You use you you use your senseof humor and and and I love how
you compare real life, you know,which you're you're really
seeing that some of the ugliestparts of life in the ER and the
most difficult parts.
But I I'd love to know ifthey're you know, just real
(29:30):
talk.
You know, you are a champion.
You're doing incredible things,and it's it's not just good luck
and it, you know, it's not theMMs.
You know, what other routines oror you know, what things that
you say to yourself, you know,what we really want to get your
secrets.
Come on.
SPEAKER_00 (29:48):
Um I jeez, I wish I could tell you anyway.
I don't I really don't mind thesec secret telling.
I just don't know what they are.
I really don't.
I I I for me I just I just Ijust Show up every day.
I don't and I mean I I have alarge bloated panace here, and I
I maybe that's making me morebuoyant.
(30:09):
I don't know.
I just don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (30:12):
Consistency.
I like that.
I'll take that.
I like consistency and showingup.
I think that is definitely aroutine.
So, but you like what do you sayto yourself in the middle of
this painful you're gonna swim1615 next week?
So and it's gonna start to hurtat some point where you're gonna
be in the 40s and you know,you're gonna want you know, you
(30:33):
got 20 more slips and you're inpain.
What what are you what is yourinner voice saying?
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
Uh well it's just why do I do this to myself?
It's it's you know that that uhyou know I really like the
thousand better than thethousand better than the mile,
because a thousand you'd startdying about this eight eight
hundred and you got only twohundred.
But the the mile you die abouteleven hundred, and you got a
long ways to go still.
And it's it's uh it's justtrying to stay with it, try to
(31:01):
keep your stroke together andand uh and uh don't blow up.
I mean, I just it's just it'sit's just gutting it out.
It's it's a tough event.
I mean, you wouldn't think athousand and a sixteen fifty
would be all that different, butit is.
I mean, I go totally differentpaces for both of them, and it's
it's just uh it's a it's adifferent I I can I can put my
head around a thousand a lotbetter, but uh, 1650 is just a
(31:23):
tough event.
You just gotta you just gottajust know know the pain's coming
and be ready for it.
And hopefully you've you knowprepared yourself and you know
the person that's the personthat's uh sandbagged next to you
that's gonna like now come byyou.
There's nothing worse thangetting uh at a long distance
event where somebody you got youwent out too hard and this guy
(31:43):
just comes right by you andyou're just you're crying like a
little baby, but you just gottayou just gotta stay with it.
That's all I I don't know.
You just gotta stay with it andjust try to stay stay with your
your stroke and everything.
SPEAKER_01 (31:53):
Is there anybody you're you're trying to impress
when you get out of the pool?
Is it your wife or yourco-workers or your I mean, is
there anybody you're thinkingabout like I gotta do decent on
this because otherwise I'm gonnaI'm gonna be, you know, have to
hang my hit.
SPEAKER_00 (32:05):
I I mean I do it, I mostly do it, do it for myself.
It's always it's always everyyear, it's like I I go nowhere
near what I can do in a in arace in workout.
Like some people, I don't know,they they tell you about this
high intensity training.
I've never been able to do it.
I have never been able to comeclose to it.
If I did a 500 like hard in inworkout, I might be able to go
(32:26):
like a 530, 525.
But I I one of probably very few54 plus year olds in the world
that can go under five minutesand a five uh 500.
And I don't know how where itcomes from, I don't know what
what it is, but it's like so.
Every time I go into a meet, I'mlike, is this the time I'm gonna
blow up and suck and like dowhat I think I can do?
(32:47):
Like I I never think I can dowhat I can do, but I end up
doing.
Like I just I I always I'mamazed by because I like anytime
I work out, I just don't evencome close to anything that's so
I I just expect that I'm gonnago that fast, but I I have never
done anything in workout to saythat you should be able to do
that time.
So it's it's always been it'salways amazing to me, and it
(33:07):
always there's a little bit offear in me every time I go to a
meeting.
It's like this could be the timethat I just like totally make a
fool on myself because it's likeI entered this time and I go
like a minute slower.
SPEAKER_02 (33:16):
So that's so funny.
So you so you're racing foryourself.
So just in a in kind of anutshell, how do how do you
taper or recommend tapering foruh uh a mile?
Because we do, even if peoplearen't swimming a mile at
nationals, they swim a milemaybe in open water or they're
(33:36):
training, you know, they'redoing a mile time trial to prep
for their triathlon.
If it, you know, you're you're aweek and a half out now.
What are you gonna do betweennow and nationals?
SPEAKER_00 (33:49):
Um, I don't I don't do a lot different because it's
a mile.
I I've been doing the same taperfor like 20 years.
Uh Chris Houchins, I went to thehigh altitude camp in uh in
Color Springs one year, and shehad a printed out.
She was she coached forIndianapolis.
She had a printed out taper, andI just I I've used that like
multiple times a year.
It's and it's not necessarilyfor a mile, but for some reason
(34:10):
it still works.
Like it, I don't I do a lot, Ido some broken 200s, uh, you
know, 10 seconds rest, and Idon't do anything long really.
And it it seems to, I it gets methe but I think during the year
I do a lot of just more pay likekind of distance ish work.
And so I think I you just don'tget out of shape, but it it
helps me just get the speed, youknow, the broken 200s and those
(34:31):
kind of things to get the speedfor for everything.
So I don't do anything specialfor for the mile, but it it does
uh it seems to translate it andyou don't you don't lose a lot
of shape.
Just you wouldn't you wouldn'tthink you you would you would it
would work for that, but itseems to have been working for
me.
SPEAKER_01 (34:47):
What's a broken 200?
SPEAKER_00 (34:48):
Just so so you go like uh like uh 450s and you
take like 10 seconds rest.
So you're kind of you're highintensity, but you're you're
only so you you're taking only10 seconds rest in between, then
you just add your time, and thatwould be your time for a 200.
Um I'll put like I'll put likeflippers on just to get it so
pretend like I'm faster than Ireally am, and and it helps, you
(35:10):
know, kind of a predictor ofwhat you could maybe do a 200
in.
SPEAKER_02 (35:14):
So cool, cool.
Um, has there uh ever been a anyhuge obstacles in your life?
SPEAKER_00 (35:23):
Um the last two years have been sort of chaos
for my family.
We were we've had so many, youknow.
I uh my my family had to move,uh my s daughter had to move in
with us with her kids, and andmy wife had a she did a 24-hour
bike race, and you know, it washead injury, clavicle fracture,
scapula fracture.
My other daughter was gettingabused by her husband, and then
(35:46):
COVID hit, and you know, I got awe lost a lot of shifts, so I
was not working a lot, and endedup losing my job.
That's kind of how I ended upmoving here, and it's just uh it
it I there was I think therewere two obstacles that I had
going through that last fewyears.
I think maybe everybody wentthrough a lot with COVID and
everything, but the the the twoobstacles, I think one of them
(36:06):
is like the people I workedwith, I like worked with them
for 24 years.
They're my friends, they were myfriends at least.
They they kind of turned on me,and it's like it's hard to get
that sort of that justifiableanger out of your out of your
out of your head.
And you can go at a religioussort of standpoint and say, Oh,
you know, you know, Jesus toldus to forgive 70 times seven, so
(36:27):
we should do that.
But you know, you just want tohold on to it.
And I those people that you feellike betrayed you, they they
don't they haven't given you asecond thought.
But the way what it's useful foris to get that out of your head,
you have to forgive them becauseto move on.
You you I've never had to dothis.
It was very hard because it'slike they don't think about me
(36:48):
at all, and it and I just likewas thinking about them every
day and wishing cancer on themor something bad, you know, and
then just like I gotta get thisout of my head.
Like I just got and so theobstacle by itself is not a it's
something you overcome, it'sjust like a process.
But that was one of theobstacles I got with that.
And then the other obstacle Ithink with that was this feeling
of inadequacy, you know, likeI'm not good enough, people
(37:08):
don't want me anymore.
And the spiritual side of mesaid, Okay, um, you know, got
you're you're son of God, Godloves you, and you know, you
just turn it over to God.
My intellectual side said, youknow, you need to get away from
people that don't believe in youand hate hate you or whatever
they are.
Uh, you got to be patient withyourself, you got to be, you
(37:29):
know, you you gotta bepersistent, but you try to be
better, but be patient withyourself.
And then kind of my likeprimitive self, I think swimming
helps that because it's like Iwant to get my mojo back.
And and I just I want to go, youknow.
So instead of like going andpunching somebody, I just like I
think I trained a lot harderlast year.
And I I think 2021 was probablymy my best year.
(37:50):
I don't think I don't think I'mnot sure anybody's ever done a
pool and a long distanceall-star in one year.
I think I had three number oneworld rankings next last year
and 14 top 10.
I had 14 pool and all uh openwater uh uh national
championships.
The then the at nationals lastyear, I I won overall for the
(38:12):
mile, and then I at the SanAntonio open water, I won
overall for both the mile andthree mile.
I just I I just it helps me, ithelped me get out of that, uh
the sort of the the primitiveside.
So there was a spiritual sideand intellectual side, and I
don't think I intentionally wentthrough all that, but it's uh
looking back on it, I thinkthat's kind of helped me what
what I went through to getthrough those those problems.
(38:34):
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
Yeah, and that that's intellectual and
primitive, yeah.
Almost physical.
SPEAKER_02 (38:40):
Definitely you you put a lot of uh that power into
your swimming, which is you knowwhat uh we just interviewed
Amanda Coker last our lastepisode on um her riding.
She rode 237 miles a day for ayear, Kurt, and um you know
broke the world record men's andwomen, and she was, you know.
(39:01):
This was so lady bits, by theway.
Yeah, yeah.
No kidding.
No kidding.
SPEAKER_00 (39:05):
But I gotta hear that from my wife all the time.
Sorry, carry on.
SPEAKER_02 (39:08):
No, that's you're we hear you.
Um Maria rides great recumbentbikes with.
SPEAKER_01 (39:14):
I was gonna say Amanda did some of it on a
recumbent.
Your wife can also go recumbent.
That's great, yeah.
Cruise bikes are greatrecumbents.
SPEAKER_02 (39:21):
But um, no, I I mean, but anyway, we find that
champions like you and Amandahave that driving something
deeper.
Amanda was bullied, she wascoming back from being
overweight, she had a lotdriving her like you did.
So I love that as a takeawaythat sometimes when you're
getting dished up just a crapsandwich, you're gonna eat it
(39:44):
and produce something reallynice that's powerful.
SPEAKER_01 (39:46):
When I was angry, I did some of my best events ever.
I mean, like truly angry whensomebody had truly offended me
in a big way.
I was I was an amazing athlete.
Or I was upset because you know,my my sister got cancer, and
it's just like, yeah, I love thedivision between spiritual,
intellectual, and primitive.
I think that's so on point.
I've never heard anybodyelucidate it that way.
It's really good.
SPEAKER_02 (40:08):
Okay, now uh it's the fun stuff.
We got to get you to a map.
So you can get you out of here.
But are you this is actuallycalled the sprinter round?
And I know you are a distanceperson, but I saw that you have
gone like 24 in the 50 free.
Come on, you can sprint.
Um, and that's now.
So I don't even know what youwent as a as a kid, but I know
as a 54-year-old, you're goingin the 24s.
(40:29):
So that is it.
SPEAKER_00 (40:30):
One time in college, one time in college, they put me
in the 50 and I beat all the Ibit all the 50 swimmers and they
were all pushed off on me therest of the day.
It was a it was a dual meeting.
I put them in, they they wereall sad.
They thought they were gonnatake me.
But anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (40:43):
Well, there is definitely something that you
gotta have some type of speed tobe able to hold on for you know
that kind of pace.
But all right, so this is thesprinter round.
Are you ready?
SPEAKER_00 (40:54):
I was born ready.
SPEAKER_02 (40:55):
Okay.
Cat or dog?
SPEAKER_00 (41:00):
Dog.
SPEAKER_02 (41:02):
Red or blue?
SPEAKER_00 (41:03):
Red.
SPEAKER_02 (41:04):
Milk chocolate or dark chocolate.
SPEAKER_00 (41:09):
It's an abomination.
Dark chocolate is anabomination.
Milk chocolate.
SPEAKER_02 (41:12):
I totally agree with that.
No, of course.
Mountains or beach?
Beach.
Football or baseball?
SPEAKER_00 (41:18):
Baseball.
SPEAKER_02 (41:19):
iPhone or Android?
SPEAKER_00 (41:22):
Android, that's just because I'm poor.
I don't have anything againstthe iPhone.
I'm just poor.
SPEAKER_02 (41:26):
We're Android too.
Maria and I you're the onlyother person on the planet.
Um coffee or tea?
SPEAKER_00 (41:32):
I don't drink any of that stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (41:34):
Wow, that's interesting.
No caffeine?
SPEAKER_00 (41:38):
Well, I'm uh LDS.
You've heard that?
Yeah, we don't drink coffee too.
Oh, gotcha.
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (41:44):
No alcohol, no, no caffeine of any kind.
SPEAKER_02 (41:46):
Okay.
Morning person.
MMs are okay.
SPEAKER_00 (41:48):
Yeah, they're okay.
That's that's my vice.
SPEAKER_02 (41:50):
I got caffeine in that.
There's some caffeine.
I'm a hypocrite.
Morning person or night owl?
SPEAKER_00 (41:57):
Um, neither, man.
I'm right in the middle.
10 a.m.
to 2 p.m.
If I could work that shift, I'ddo that all day, every day.
Don't have to get up too early,don't have to stay up late.
SPEAKER_03 (42:06):
Right in the middle.
SPEAKER_00 (42:07):
And it's only four hours, so I'm gonna go straight
through.
I wouldn't take lunch oranything.
Just 10 a.m.
to two.
I was no lunch.
SPEAKER_02 (42:15):
I love it.
All right, Marie's got some foryou.
Favorite favorite color.
SPEAKER_00 (42:19):
Yeah, I think I I used to think I was a red guy,
but I now I'm I think I'm anorange guy.
I I don't I I I I wanted to bered, and I'm like, no, I think
I'm orange.
Took me a long time to getthere.
SPEAKER_01 (42:30):
Yeah, my husband is orange.
Yeah, that's a rare favoritecolor, but I like it.
Favorite pizza topping.
SPEAKER_00 (42:35):
Pepperoni.
SPEAKER_01 (42:36):
Favorite vegetable.
SPEAKER_00 (42:39):
I don't think it exists.
SPEAKER_01 (42:41):
Potatoes.
They're vegetables.
That count.
SPEAKER_00 (42:43):
Okay, potatoes, then I would do that.
SPEAKER_01 (42:48):
And butter.
Butter.
Yeah.
Favorite swim complex in theU.S.
SPEAKER_00 (42:52):
Um, I've always liked uh Texas.
I think that was that's uh oneof my favorites.
SPEAKER_01 (42:57):
Which is there should I know what what you mean
when you say Oh, University ofTexas, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (43:01):
My my my brother swam there and I went there and
swam there one summer and it wasit was a good it was fond
memories.
SPEAKER_01 (43:07):
What kind what kind of music do you like?
SPEAKER_00 (43:09):
I like my favorite is like Joe Jackson.
You ever heard of Joe Jackson?
Yeah, I'll show you.
SPEAKER_01 (43:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Shoe size.
SPEAKER_00 (43:19):
Yeah, my shoe size, 12.
SPEAKER_01 (43:21):
Okay.
Uh do you have siblings?
unknown (43:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (43:25):
Six of them.
SPEAKER_01 (43:25):
Six, yeah.
A favorite Star Wars character.
SPEAKER_00 (43:29):
Um, I yeah, I um I might disappoint you with this,
but I I I can't stand a wholeStar Wars Enterprise.
SPEAKER_01 (43:35):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (43:35):
I just wear I I don't know, man.
I don't I don't get it.
I don't understand it.
When I would the first one cameout when I was like 10 years
old, and I was like, I was like,it's okay, why are we going to
this 10 times?
I don't understand.
Can you cook?
I mean, I I make a mean waffleand a mean raspberry crepes.
That's I I do some breakfastitems that are pretty good, and
I would challenge anybody.
SPEAKER_01 (43:57):
Okay.
What word comes to mind when youfirst dive in the water?
SPEAKER_00 (44:02):
Um I mean, I I I don't know if it's a word, it's
just a relaxation.
I like that's just that's mythat's my zen there when I get I
jump in that just uh just glide,and you're just like I don't
know if I I get a word in myhead that it just that it just
feels you know peaceful andrelaxing.
SPEAKER_01 (44:19):
Sort of maybe glide.
I like that.
SPEAKER_02 (44:21):
That's I like Zen.
That's great.
Zen works works too.
Oh Kurt, this has been soawesome.
So fun.
So fun.
Yeah, so so fun.
Really appreciate your time anduh just wish you all the best in
everything you're doing in thepool, out of the pool with your
family.
And um just thank you, thankyou.
Win win win.
SPEAKER_00 (44:40):
Thanks, thanks for having me.
Yeah, all right, take care.
All right, bye.
SPEAKER_02 (44:45):
Thanks so much for listening to this champions mojo
Encore episode.
If it inspired you, pleasefollow the show, share it with a
friend, and consider leaving aquick review.
It truly helps.
And don't forget, my new book,False Cure, is available at
Amazon and Barnes Noble.
I'll be back in January 2026with all new episodes to help
(45:07):
you live well, swim well, andkeep your mojo going.
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