How a World Record Setter Trains, Tapers, And Thrives In Masters Swimming: Jeff Commings, ENCORE EP 291

One of our very favorite episodes on how to train, taper, and thrive in Masters Swimming. In this encore show we sat down with world record masters swimmer and veteran swim journalist Jeff Cummings to map out a smarter path to speed: focused training, practical tapering, honest recovery, and habits you can sustain with a full-time job and a full life. Jeff opens up about training alone and still finding intensity, the “exercise sets” that harden race finish, and why four quality days plus one true recovery swim beat mindless yardage every time. Everyone wants to know how to taper for a Masters Swim Meet!

We dig into how to build speed as an aging athlete, especially for triathletes and distance swimmers crossing into 50s and 100s. Jeff’s method is clear: make sprinting a skill you practice year-round, target stroke rate and pull mechanics, and give your body six to twelve months to adapt. His taper philosophy flips convention—most masters don’t need two weeks off. He keeps sessions at or above 2,500 yards, trims intensity to preserve pop, and stops heavy weights about ten days out so he shows up springy, not stale.

Strength, recovery, and nutrition round out the engine. Twice-weekly lifting maintains muscle mass without bulking. Stretching isn’t optional; Jeff builds mobility into pool decks, showers, and daily routines so soreness doesn’t harden into tightness. His “daytime vegan” approach—plant-forward days with animal protein at night—dropped his cholesterol, stabilized energy, and restored race power. We also explore stress and blood pressure, the realities of running a business, and the mindset tools that turn lactic burn into competitive fuel.

Beyond performance, Jeff champions inclusion through Swimmers For Change. He shares simple ways to diversify the pool deck: invite a friend, buy the first lesson, follow up until it sticks. If you’re looking for masters swimming tips, sprint training for adults, taper strategy, dryland strength, recovery stretching, and inclusive community building, this conversation brings it all together in a plan you can actually live. If it helps you, share it with a teammate, subscribe for more, and leave a quick review so others can find the show.

Email us at [e-mail]. Opinions discussed are not medical advice, please seek a medical professional for your own health concerns.

Check out Kelly's Books at www.KellyPalace.com

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_03 (00:02):
Full disclosure, I hate going to the gym.
I hate it, I hate it, I hate it,I do not like it.
I never have from the time Istarted doing dryland gym
workouts when I was 17 untilnow.
So 31 years.
I have never been like, yay, I'mgoing to the gym to lift
weights, to do squats and allthat.
I've never liked it, but I do itbecause I know I have to.

SPEAKER_01 (00:23):
Hello, friends.
This is Kelly Palace, host ofChampions Mojo, your place for
better health, resilience, andmaster swimming.
I'm taking a short break fromrecording new episodes of
Champions Mojo for two excitingreasons.
First, I'm launching my latestbook, False Cure.
It's a whistleblowinginvestigative journalism book

(00:45):
about a denied health epidemic.
If you'd like more informationon that, it's in the show notes.
The second and most compellingreason I'm on a break is here at
Champions Mojo, we're preparingfor the January 2026 reboot of
powerful new weekly episodeswith expert guest interviews,

(01:08):
inspiring topics, and tips totake your mindset, health, and
personal performance to the nextlevel.
We will be announcing someincredible partnerships with the
show, and I guarantee what wehave in store for you will
empower you and keep your mojostrong in the new year.
While I'm preparing some of thisgreat stuff, we've selected some

(01:31):
of our best shows ever for anEncore series.
My hope is that if this is yoursecond time listening to this
episode, you'll take away evenmore insight and motivation.
Or if it's your first time,you'll love this episode as much
as everyone else did.
So settle in and enjoy thisEncore presentation in its

(01:53):
entirety.
So we have a wonderful show forus today.
We will be talking with JeffCummings, author, broadcast
personality, and elite masterswimmer.
Jeff is a decorated swimmer fromhis college days at the
University of Texas, Austin,where he was an Olympic trials
qualifier.

(02:13):
And currently he is a worldrecord-setting master swimmer.
He's also a media personalityfor USA swimming and has hosted
the morning swim show and deckpass, among others.
And Jeff has covered the sportof swimming as a journalist for
multiple decades.
Maria, what else can you tell usabout Jeff?

SPEAKER_02 (02:32):
Well, Jeff just keeps performing at the
world-class level, earningmultiple FINA World No.
Master's rankings in 2021 in themen's 45 to 49 age group.
He's also fresh off the USMSSpring Nationals, where he won
five national titles.
He does this all with afull-time job.
Jeff is a writer and the authorof the 2010 book Odd Man Out, an

(02:54):
autobiography, True Stories of aGay Black Swimmer.
We can't wait to talk with Jeffand get some mojo for our own
lives.
Jeff, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_03 (03:02):
Yes, it's good to be here again, Maria and Kelly.
After I can't remember how longago it was.

SPEAKER_01 (03:10):
Yeah, but it was one of our first interviews, wasn't
it, Kelly?
I feel it.
It was actually, it was shownumber 21.
So it was 147 shows ago.
Wow.
So a couple of years, which wethought you were one of our most
popular shows, Jess.
And, you know, in our last show,we didn't talk as much about

(03:30):
your, you know, drilling down onyour master swimming.
You know, we talked kind ofbroad strokes about how you've
become this amazing champion inyour life and your book and your
career.
And now we're kind of doing aseason of master swimmers.
And also we have a lot oftriathletes and people that, you
know, we're we're all aging.
I can't believe you are alreadyin the 45 to 49 age group.

SPEAKER_03 (03:51):
I was neither can I.

SPEAKER_01 (03:53):
Yeah.
And so we're a bunch of agingathletes out here.
So we kind of want to get somesecrets.
You know, how are you doing thishigh level?
I'm talking, you know, reallyfast performances of, you know,
you had multiple number one,world number ones last year,
obvious US number ones, andyou're doing this with a

(04:16):
full-time job, you know,partner.
You're you're just you have afull life and yet you're
performing at a high level.
How are you doing it?

SPEAKER_03 (04:24):
Nothing's really a secret.
I mean, I get asked this all thetime.
I get, you know, people stop meon deck when I get out of the
pool, it's like, you know, howmany times are you swimming per
week?
Do you do this?
Do you do that?
So I get questions a lot and I'malways proud to answer them.
I mean, even if I'm not tryingto keep it a secret so that
nobody can, you know, be as fastas me.

(04:44):
I've I'm I'm totally willing tolet people know because I want
people to understand that youcan continue to swim at a high
level, you can continue to swimwell as you age.
And how do I do it?
Sometimes I don't know.
Sometimes I get to the end ofthe day, it's like, how did I
get through that day?
It was so much.
Like, for example, this pastSaturday, I got up at five to

(05:06):
swim before I had an eight-hourworkday.
So part of it is you just do it.
And if you get in that rhythm, Ithink that's the thing.
You get in a rhythm, you getinto some consistency.
It's not as hard as you think.
But I know a lot of people havetrouble with the consistency
because their lives are veryunpredictable.

(05:26):
There's so many things that theycan't keep on a schedule because
of just their jobs or theirfamilies or whatever.
And I guess I've been very luckyto have the kind of a job and
kind of a life that allows me tocontinue to be able to train,
not the way I want, because Idon't like training this hard,
but to train the way that I needto and to continue to enjoy the

(05:47):
sport.
Well, how hard are you training?
I swim five days a week.
Usually I always take Sundaysoff.
It depends on what day duringthe week I take off.
And sometimes it's Thursday,especially this summer, because
the pool where I swim is longcourse on Monday, Wednesday,
Friday, Saturday.
And since this is long courseseason, I'll take the one of the
days off where the pool is justshort course.
So I swim five days a week.

(06:09):
I used to count how many yardsor meters that I swam every day,
but I don't really try to dothat too much because I get
bogged down in, oh my gosh, Ionly did 3,200 today.
What does that mean for nextweek or the next workout?
I just try to get the most outof each workout.
And I supplement that with twodryland workouts per week.

(06:29):
And it's usually justweightlifting, but there's also
some core exercises.
I don't really need to do cardioin the gym because swimming is
my cardio.
So it can be very intensive.
Some days I get a I have a swimworkout that, you know, it's
hard to get out of the poolafterwards, but I feel good that
I did it.
And I also swim alone.

(06:49):
And that's one thing that I thatis a product of my life.
Because I teach swim lessons fora living and I'm teaching them
during the day, I can't swimwith a master's team during
their typical workout times.
Either I don't want to get upvery early in the morning.
The team that I want to swimwith, they swim at 5:30 in the
morning.
And that's, I'm not going to getup that early, especially if I

(07:11):
have a day where I'm notstarting work until noon.
Like, what am I going to do forfour hours?
Probably go back to sleep, whichI don't want to do.
And I can't swim at noon becauseI'm often working at noon.
So my only choice was just is toswim alone.
And that's really the hardestpart because there are days
where I'm excited about theworkout and then I get to the
main set and I'm thinking, yeah,my body's not feeling it.

(07:32):
Is anybody going to really careif I cut this in half or only do
two rounds instead of three?
But I have to do it.
And I know in my mind, I have todo it if I want to reach the
goals that I want to reach.
Are you coached?
I'm my own coach.
So I don't have somebody elsewriting the workouts.
Actually, something I'm doingthis year that's been very
helpful for me is back in 2011when I qualified for the 2012

(07:54):
Olympic trials, I kept a log ofall of my workouts for that year
after I qualified up untilswimming at Olympic trials.
And so that was 10 years ago.
And I said, you know what?
I'm going to try some of theseworkouts that I did 10 years ago
and see how they do.
And some of them, I'm like, howdid I do these 10 years ago?
And some of them were like, Ican't believe I'm still doing

(08:16):
this.
And the times sometimes aren'tas fast, but I'm able to do the
set.
And so that's been a lot of fun.
So, you know, like today I did aI'm going, I actually'm going to
do a set that I did 10 years agothat when I looked at it, my
eyes were just like, there's noway.
How did I do this when I was 38?
But it's going to be a nicechallenge for me.

SPEAKER_01 (08:34):
What is that set?

SPEAKER_03 (08:36):
Well, it's a set that I actually like.
It's more of an exercise set,but it involves create the
lactic acid.
And so what you'll do is you'lldo a dive 25 sprint and you'll
climb out and you'll do 10push-ups, and then you'll dive
back in and do another 25sprint.
And then you'll do a 50 easy.
And you do that six rounds.
It's very hard.

(08:57):
I did this when I was 38 when Iwas training at the Phoenix Swim
Club.
And my coach Mark Rankin used tolove doing these.
He called them exercise sets.
And they are exercise.
I mean, you really get yourheart popping.
But the goal is, especially onthat second 25 that you do, your
arms are going to be burningfrom the push-ups and you just
have to keep sprinting.
And you do it six rounds, and Ivividly remember these sets.

(09:20):
And, you know, you feel likeyou're failing.
You know, you don't even carewhat the time is.
You're just, it's all about theeffort.
And I'm looking forward to it,but I'm not looking forward to
it.
I'm looking forward to it forthe challenge.
I'm not looking forward to itbecause as again, I swim by
myself.
And when I did the set 10 yearsago, I was swimming with the
team.
And, you know, there would bepeople there who would I dive in
with them and I'd race them.

(09:41):
And that creates the challengeand that gets you out of your
own head of this really hurt.
You're just wanting to race thatperson next to you.
So I don't have anybody to swimnext to when I do the set.
And it, I know that's going tobe the real challenge.

SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
So in general, if you're swimming five days a
week, are you doing some shortrace pace mixed with endurance,
mixed with that exercise?
So tell us kind of what yourtraining is and how you taper
off of that.
Because I don't know if you'regoing to Long Force Nationals,
but you know, we're three weeksout.
And if you're doing that kind ofstuff, I don't know when you

(10:14):
start your taper, but tell uskind of how your week looks when
you're in a heavy training blockand then how you taper off of
that.

SPEAKER_03 (10:23):
I would say a heavy training block is kind of the
six to seven weeks before Istart tapering.
And it's not to say, let's say,in the fall, winter, spring
season that runs like almostseven months, that I'm not doing
anything for the first likethree, four months.
I really am working hard, but itreally is kind of mostly
endurance.
So in the heavy training, whenI'm really getting ready for

(10:46):
meet, it's not, it wouldn't bewhat you call race base.
You know, it's not what MichaelAndrew does.
But I am specifically focused onhow am I attacking this race.
You know, if I'm thinking abouttraining that day for 100
breaststroke, I'm thinking abouthow am I going to attack this
race?
And let's experiment with somethings of doing die 50s long
course and you know,experimenting with how fast I

(11:09):
want to take it out and findingthat easy speed kind of thing.
So I would say out of the fiveworkouts I do, four of them are
definitely have some very hardswimming components.
They may not be sprinting, theymay be working on my 200 IM,
which is another event that I'mworking on this year.
So it's not all just fast 25sand 50s.
There may be some best averagehundreds backstroke.

(11:31):
There may be some best averagehundreds freestyle.
I do not like training longcourse breaststroke.
I really, really, really do notlike it because my heart rate
gets really high.
The lactic acid really getsbuilt up.
And as much as I don't liketurns, sometimes that turn in a
short course bull can reallyhelp.
But I really know I have to doit.
And it's really about justmaking sure that I can finish

(11:53):
the race well.
Because as you get older, youryour aerobic endurance really
does decrease.
Your anaerobic anaerobicendurance really decreases.
And it's really a lot harder tofinish races.
And so I want to make sure thatwhen I get to those last, I
don't know, 15, 20 meters oryards, that yeah, the lactic
acid is building up, but I couldthink back to that hard set I

(12:14):
did four weeks ago and think, Imade it through that.
I can make it through this.

SPEAKER_02 (12:18):
That that is my follow-up question to that.
Is what do you say to yourselfwhen that lactic acid builds up
and you're in a lot of pain andyou're training alone, as you
said, you know, what stacking,you know, remembering what
you've done, but what else?
Anything else you say toyourself?

SPEAKER_03 (12:31):
I basically try to tell myself, just imagine this
was the race.
This is a race, and you have toget to the wall.
Whether I'm racing a clock orI'm racing one or two people
next to me, I have to tellmyself, get to the wall, not
just get to the wall, becauseyou can just flail, but you
know, I want to get to the wallwith the greatest technique
because the technique is goingto help.

(12:51):
Focus on the technique, focus ongetting to the wall.
And sometimes it that wall feelslike it's never gonna get there.
And I also know I probably haveone more repeat to do.
So, you know, don't think about,oh, I have one more to do, so
back off.
The whole point is if you'resupposed to be building up this
lactic acid and trying tobasically swim through the pain,

(13:13):
you just have to to endure it.
And again, it's not, it does notget any easier as you get older.
And it does not get easy whenyou're swimming by yourself.
So I have to tell myself, justkeep going, just keep going,
just keep going, just keepgoing.
And I kind of picture in my headwhat my, for lack of a better
word, I think about what myrivals are doing and the fact
that they're probably out therejust churning it out.

(13:33):
They're probably swimming withthe team, and they are they're
pushing it every day, and theywere probably pushing it that
day.
And I have to say I can't letdown because they didn't either.

SPEAKER_02 (13:42):
I do exactly the same thing.
I imagine when my rival's outthere racing and pushing.
That's interesting.
That's a great picking.

SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
But you are really fast.
Okay.
So what you're talking to acouple of distance girls here.
So what you your training soundsa lot like when Maria and I talk
about, oh, we did this gruelingtraining.
So you have so much speed.
Where is your speed mixed inthere?
Because it is.
I mean, you're so fast.

SPEAKER_03 (14:10):
You have to put fast stuff in there all the time.
And I guess uh it just comesfrom me having been a sprinter
all my life.
And so it's not, it's notdifficult for me to.
I actually get more excitedabout the sprint sets than the
best average hundreds that I dobecause they're, you know, there
may be 25s on 40, and it's, youknow, the point is to kind of

(14:31):
get some rest or 50s on twominutes, the point being to get
some rest and do them over andover.
I get excited about it, eventhough I get to the end and it's
really hurting, it's reallyburning.
I can barely feel like I can'tbreathe, kind of thing.
So it just comes from a life ofbeing a sprinter.
If I were a distance swimmerwhen I was younger and trying to
be a sprinter now, I know howhard that is.
I coach a lot of swimmers whoare trying to be sprinters and

(14:51):
they grew up as distance ormiddle distance swimmers.
But mentally, I just get soexcited about sprinting.
So it's not difficult at all forme to do a sprint set, at least
to think about it and rightbefore the set get excited about
it.
But of course, in the moment,sometimes the thoughts come in
of like, uh, maybe it would havebeen better to be a distance
swimmer.
You don't have to go 100% thewhole time.

SPEAKER_01 (15:13):
Okay.
I have first question and then afollow-up.
What are your best averagehundreds on?
What's the interval?

SPEAKER_03 (15:19):
For freestyle, I'm gonna tell you long course just
because I'm in that long coursemic.
Sure.
Long course, the interval willbe 145, and I'm trying to hold
between 110 and 115.

SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (15:33):
And it's about 30 seconds rest.

SPEAKER_01 (15:36):
And then the follow-up is so most people
don't come into swimming withthis great sprint background.
Like Maria is swimming, her,she's she's a new master
swimmer.
She's gonna swim her firstmaster's event, albeit it's it
is a two-miler.
But for those people thatgenerally like triathletes come
in, people come in that whenthey go to meets, they may have

(15:57):
an endurance base, but they'regonna swim in their first meet,
the 50-free, the 100-free, the50 breast, the 100-breast.
How would you recommend thatthose swimmers transfer kind of
their endurance muscles to beingquick in the pool?

SPEAKER_03 (16:12):
Well, it's very hard to transition from someone who
used to do the mile to doing the50.
That's a big junk.
I would say if you want to be asprinter, probably a 50 is gonna
seem way too short.
You're by the time the race isover, you're gonna feel like,
okay, I'm ready to go.
So I would say 100 is the bestis the best place to start for a
distance swimmer who wants to bea sprinter.

(16:33):
It's still a sprint, it's stillpretty much all out.
And, you know, the best thing todo is to know you're gonna do
this meet well in advancebecause you can't say, oh, in
three months, I'm gonna do myfirst 50 freestyle on a meet.
You need to give your body timeto start training for that and
adapting to it.
So I would say six months to ayear out, you need to start
thinking like a sprinter,getting into that mindset and in

(16:56):
the pool, don't shy away fromdoing all those sprint sets and
just embrace it.
And your body's gonna rebelbecause you have slow switch
muscles.
And when you age, it's hard toturn those over to fast switch.
But you could do it if you workon stroke rate, if you work on
how you're pulling through thewater, and if you just do the
sprints.
And again, I coach mastersummers and I have I have a few

(17:17):
of them that want that are triathletes, and they think of 200
freestyle is a sprint, and it isfor for some of them.
And I tell them they got to workon turning their arms over
faster, and it's really hard forthem to think about that because
they're they're in that mindsetof, you know, and I just did an
Iron Man, so I'm thinking ofkeeping it long and strong and
to think about basically turningit over really fast is foreign

(17:40):
to them, but they're working onit.
It's not that they have thismeeting them up.
They've been working on this fora year, preparing for it.
And if you don't give yourselftime to prepare for it, it's
probably not going to turn outthe way you want it.

SPEAKER_01 (17:52):
Okay, cool.
Well, that's good.
And you're dry land training,you're doing that two days a
week.
What does that look like?

SPEAKER_03 (17:58):
It's mostly weights, as I said.
The hard part about this is theknowledge that I'm at the point
in my life where muscle massdecreases.
And I know as a sprinter, I haveto keep my muscle mass.
And I've been so fortunate andkind of surprised that the
weights that I'm lifting now,like let's say for bench press

(18:19):
or lat pull or leg press,they're pretty much the same
weights that I've been doingsince I was in my early 30s.
So for example, you know, I'llbench press about 190 for 10
reps right now.
And I've been doing that for along time.
Now, I could probably try to maxout on that, but I don't, you

(18:41):
know, I'm 48 years old.
I don't want to break something.
But I also, you know, I knowthat even when I was in my 30s
or when I was in college, thepoint is not to like bulk out
because that's very hard to youcan't pull yourself through the
water if you've got these heavy,dense muscles.
And you just don't need it.
I mean, you look at people likeCaleb Dressel, I mean, he's
lean, but he's strong.

(19:02):
I mean, you almost all thosesprinters, you know, Rowdy
Gaines always says when, youknow, they're stepping up on the
blocks for a 50 freestyle,they're built like linebackers.
I know linebackers, they're notbuilt like linebackers, but they
are big and they're they gotbroad shoulders, but they're not
looking like Mr.
Olympia out there.
And, you know, they really pushthe weights and they make the

(19:22):
muscles they have stronger.
It's not necessarily about likeincreasing the muscle mass.
But for me, it's about keepingthat muscle mass because if I
want to try to swim the times Iwant to swim, I can't just rely
on the swimming part.
I've got to stay strong and I'vegot to make sure those muscles
are continuing to stay at leastkind of the way they used to be.
It's not to say that yes, I'mlifting the same weights, it's

(19:43):
not as easy, but I am quitesurprised that I'm still able to
do them.

SPEAKER_02 (19:47):
How many hours a week do you train all together?
How much in the pool and howmuch dry land?

SPEAKER_03 (19:53):
Well, I would say a typical swim workout is about an
hour and 15 minutes.
So that's five, six hours and 15minutes in the pool.
And then full disclosure, I hategoing to the gym.
I hate it, I hate it, I hate it,I do not like it.
I never have from the time Istarted doing dry land gym
workouts when I was 17 untilnow.

(20:15):
So 31 years.
I have never been like, yay, I'mgoing to the gym to lift
weights, to do squats and allthat.
I've never liked it, but I do itbecause I know I have to.
And when I get there, sometimesI'm like, okay, this is a really
good gym day.
And it kind of boosts my moraleabout it.
So I'm there twice a week andI'm usually around 45 to 50

(20:35):
minutes.
So all in all, it's about seven,no more than eight hours in a
week of actual training.
It's not that I don't have thetime.
I can make the time to do moreyards in the water.
I don't feel like I really needto do that.
And like I said, I couldprobably add, I've been asked,
you know, why don't you add aday in the gym?
Would it help you?

(20:55):
And I it probably wouldn'treally change much, especially
since I don't like going there.
So adding a day to do somethingI really don't like doing
mentally probably wouldn't be agood thing for me either.

SPEAKER_01 (21:06):
We've got this training block.
How do you taper?

SPEAKER_03 (21:10):
Taper is an art.
It's not a science.
It varies wildly from season toseason for me.
But the general framework is Idon't taper officially for more
than six days.
You know, there is no such thingin the matter.
I can't imagine there's a masterswimmer who needs a two-week
taper unless they're traininglike 7,000 or 8,000 yards a

(21:33):
workout because there's nothingto taper from.
I mean, if you're going, I'd saythe average master swimmer
swims, let's say elite level,swims between 3,000 yards and
4,000 yards in a workout.
I mean, if you're trying totaper down, you shouldn't really
go too far.
You couldn't, I mean, going2,500 is probably the minimum

(21:53):
you should be doing.
Because when you get to a meet,you're gonna, if you count your
warm-up, your races, and yourwarm down in a day, you're
probably gonna be doing 2,500yards.
So if you do less than that,then the the swimming at the
meat is gonna feel like you'redoing more.
So I always keep that mindset ofnever going less than 2,500 on
my taper workouts.
So I don't have far to taperdown.
And it's really just aboutreducing the intensity for me.

(22:16):
So if I'm doing four out of myfive workouts normally that are
really, really hard, reallyintense, and having one recovery
day, during a taper, I might dothree days where I just do no
more than like a hundred fast.
But some days I'm one day Imight do like a set that's 500
yards and total sprinting justto keep up that energy and kind

(22:37):
of keep my muscles in shape.
And people are like surprisedwhen I say it's like six days.
But you know, I remember thelast time I did a two-week taper
and it failed miserably.
Failed miserably.
I felt out of shape when I dovein for each race.
I felt like I couldn't move,like my muscles, I had no
muscles.
You know, I was just going onautopilot.

(22:58):
I knew what I was doing.
The times on the scoreboard wereabsolutely terrible.
And I said, I don't need atwo-week taper.
I just don't need it.
And so I said, the next seasonI'm gonna try one week.
And so it was seven days, and itworked out much better.
I had, I felt like I was in goodracing shape, good swimming
shape.
I was ready to go.
And so I've stayed with thatpretty much since this was 2014

(23:20):
when I had that two-week taper.
So eight years, and it's nevervaried much from the length of
time.
But sometimes it depends on thetraining season I've had.
If I feel like I've beentraining really hard and I feel
broken down, I may take moredays of hardly doing any
sprinting.
So you just have to listen toyour body.
And whether you're swimming byyourself or whether you're
swimming with the team, you haveto listen to your body.

(23:42):
If your body says three daysout, I'm ready to race, it's
probably a little too early, alittle too soon.
So you kind of maybe should thenext day do some hard stuff just
to kind of get your body peppedup again, kind of break it down
a little bit and then give itanother day to rest.
And then by meet day, you shouldbe ready.
But it's it's so hard.
Kelly and Maria, I can't tellyou how many times I have

(24:04):
fretted over a taper where I'vegotten to halfway through and I
feel terrible.
Like I feel like I am not gonnahave a good meat.
And then the next day, justfine.
It's just fine.
I'm actually more ready to race.
So if you go through a taper andyou every day feel like you're
ready to go, it's probably notgonna be a good taper because
probably at the meat, you'regonna start to feel like you're

(24:25):
a little bit out of shape.
Or yeah, because you peak tooearly in your taper.
So just the bottom line islisten to your body and make
sure that you're not feelingrace ready too soon.

SPEAKER_01 (24:36):
That is one of the best summations of a taper for
masters that I've ever heard.
And I just to drill down onemore degree, so I I've clearly
got what you said.
Where do you stop the weights,the dry land?

SPEAKER_03 (24:50):
Yeah, the weights will start a little bit before
that.
So I stop weights maybe 10 daysout.
Okay.
But I'll actually start to taperthat off.
So let's say, for example, myI'm not going to Long Course
Nationals.
I'm actually going to MissionViejo for a swim meet in August,
the week after nationals.
So that meet starts on the 12th.

(25:11):
Actually, the 13th is the firstday I'm swimming.
So I'm going to stop weightsprobably the second or the
third, whichever that Thursday,because I lift weights on
Tuesdays and Thursdays.
So that'll be my last day ofactually doing weights.
And it'll be very light.
You know, I'll just do two, twosets of 15, just kind of light
weights, just kind of justmaking sure I feel like I'm
doing something.

(25:33):
And then I don't go to theweight room anymore after that.
I may, you know, after, let'ssay on a particular day, I may
do some core stuff just to kindof keep that intact.
But it's I never touch a weight,never go in the gym at all.
And I think that's actuallygood.
I actually, one time I stoppeddoing weights the same day I
stopped my taper, and I wasstill broken down for me.
And I knew it was because of theweights.

(25:54):
So I figured 10 days, I wouldn'tsay it's perfect, because again,
it's a it's an art.
There's no such thing as aperfect taper, but that seems to
work best.

SPEAKER_02 (26:02):
I just have to ask, I woke up this morning really
sore.
And I was thinking, you know, Iwake up every morning sore.
Is that I'll ask both of you, isthat a classic master's athlete
thing?
You're pushing yourself, you'redoing different things, and
you're just going to be sore allthe time.
I mean, I usually my mentalattitude about it is, oh, great,
that's great.
But I sometimes wonder if I'mgoing too hard.

(26:22):
What do you think, Jeff?

SPEAKER_03 (26:24):
Well, being sore is good.
It's a sign that you're workinghard, you're breaking your
muscles down.
But again, we're not in our 20sanymore.
Right.
So the one thing that I knowpeople don't do, I would say, I
would bet you if I pulled 200master swimmers of all
abilities, and I asked them, Doyou stretch after your workout?

(26:44):
The majority of them would sayno.
They just get out of the pool,take a shower, get dressed girl.
You have to stretch.
You know, that's how you getyour lactic ass out.
People just think, oh, you know,when the coach says do a 200
easy at the end of the workout,that cures it.
But of course, you wake up thenext morning, you're still
feeling it.
You have to stretch.
You know, it could be whileyou're in the shower.

(27:04):
It could be while you're on yourway home in the car, you're on
your way to work.
I do that myself.
I actually in the shower afterthe workout, I'm stretching.
Before I get out of the pool,I'm doing some stretching.
I'll always, depending on thepool I'm in, the lifeguards get
a little freaked out becauseI'll go down to the bottom of
the pool and I'll just stand onthe bottom and just do this

(27:25):
stretch.
He's pulling his elbow.
He's pulling his elbow up.
Pull the two elbows up.
Pull the elbow behind my head,do a nice tricep stretch.
And so I'll stand thereunderwater for like 10 seconds.
It's not that I can't get out ofthe pool and do it, but I don't
know.
It feels better doing it in thewater.
And I know the lifeguards, theyknow who I am at the pool where
I swim mostly, so they know I'llbe okay.

(27:46):
But I'm sure they're looking.
It's like, okay, is he comingup?
And I'll blow bubbles just tokind of let them know.
But I do that a lot.
I'll sit there after I'm doneand in the pool, on the side of
the pool, stretching for likefive minutes.
And like I said, I'll do somemore stretching in the shower.
If I'm feeling it an hour later,I'll do a little more
stretching.
It might be my upper back andI'll do some stretches for my

(28:07):
upper back.
I'll just raise my arms over myhead and hold my hands and just
stretch my arms.
That always helps.
Stretching is very important.
It's not to say it's going tohelp you not feel sore the next
day, but at least you'll be ableto get out of bed and not feel
like you're, you know, hunchedover.
You can't, you know, stand upstraight.

SPEAKER_02 (28:24):
That's good advice.

SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
Yeah.
So I love having a roundtablediscussion because I think our
listeners will really appreciatethat.
So in talking about being soreevery morning, do you ever take
training blocks where you rest?

SPEAKER_02 (28:37):
Yeah.
I mean, obviously I'm not soreon those times when I'm not
doing anything.
But when I'm when I'm doing somany different things now
because I'm I'm doing runningand I'm also I'm not a
triathlete right now, but I amswimming, you know, which is new
for me and different differentkinds of swimming.
So and then I also go to the gymand I do something different at
the gym every time.
So I feel like I'm I'm waking upa new muscle every day that I'm

(29:01):
working out.
So yeah.
What do you think about beingsore, Kelly?
Is that part of your experience?

SPEAKER_01 (29:06):
Yeah, but I do rest when I'm sore.
Like if I'm super sore, then Iwill not beat myself up and I'll
just take a day.
I mean, it'll just be that oneday out of a hard training
block.
Like if I plan to swim five dayshard in a week and I swim four
days hard, and then I have ahard, like let's say I swim
Monday through Thursday, and I'mreally, really tired and I know

(29:28):
I have a hard workout Saturday.
I might just not do somethingFriday.
How about you, Jeff?
Do you like beat yourself up ifyou just say, you know, today
I'm just not gonna do this?

SPEAKER_03 (29:38):
Well, like I said, I know which day is my recovery
day.
Saturday is always my recoveryday because one, I have to swim
at six in the morning and it'sjust way too early to do
anything really hard.
My body is not awake.
And I have a very long eighthour day of teaching swim
lessons.
So I'm not gonna, you know, beatmyself to a pulp in the pool and
then have to teach swim lessonsall day because I'm not gonna.

(30:00):
To be in the right physical ormental frame of mind.
So I always know Saturday'sgoing to be easy or let's say
easier.
Some days it's not going to belike a full-on just floating
through the pool.
So let's say on a Tuesday, Ijust don't feel good, like it's
really hard.
And I'll say, okay, so let's sayon Wednesday, maybe I won't do

(30:20):
sprinting.
Maybe I'll just do some aerobicwork.
You know, I won't try to beat mymuscles up too hard, but I'm not
going to take it as a rest day.
And, you know, I don't like thatfeeling of having too much rest
because, like I said, I don'ttaper very long.
I think my body's going tokickstart a taper.
So I don't want it to startfeeling that in the middle of
the season.
So that's why the one day isimportant and the two days off

(30:43):
where I don't do anything.
I don't go to the gym.
I don't swim.
I just, you know, that gearreally gives my body a chance to
rest.
So I know I have those two days.
So I just don't try to fullyimplement a rest day until
Saturday.
And the other days, it's really,it can be hard because mentally
I'm like, I just don't feel likedoing this that my body does not
want to do it.
That's the point.

(31:03):
Yeah.
You know, you have to, you haveto break your body down and you
have to train your body to pushthrough its limits.
Unless it's an if it gets to thepoint where it's an injury, then
I'll say, okay, I won't dofreestyle today because my
shoulder is not feeling ittoday.
But I'll do something else.
I'll just put on bends and justkick that whole day.

SPEAKER_01 (31:20):
So on the day you're saying that you have a rest day,
so you must be lifting on daysthat you swim then, right?

SPEAKER_03 (31:26):
Well, yes.
I swim on Tuesdays and Thursdaysand I lift on Tuesdays and
Thursdays.

SPEAKER_01 (31:30):
Okay.
And then the other two days arecompletely off.
And then your recovery day isthe Saturday where you're just
going easy swimming.
Okay, gotcha.
So four days a week is whenyou're really torturing
yourself.
And I already have my takeaways,Maria.
I mean, I know where I'm goingto sit.
Like this is clearly, clearly,Jeff, you are so successful

(31:51):
because you work your tail off.
I mean, you are like super hard.
And we, you opened kind of withsaying, like, we said, how do
you do it?
People want to know your secret.
And you said, you know, you justget into a routine.
And we love to hear fromchampions like, what other
routines, rituals you covered alot with just your swimming, but

(32:13):
outside of your swimming thatmake you a champion?

SPEAKER_03 (32:17):
Something I've really stuck with since 2015 is
having a partially vegan life.
And this comes from my biologywith high blood pressure and
high cholesterol, something thatmedication wasn't really was
helping, but it wasn't reallydoing all that it could do.
You know, I'd get to a pointafter workout and I'd take my

(32:38):
heart rate, and my heart ratewould be about 180 after heart
set.
Wow.
And then I'd take it a minute,or you're supposed to take it 30
seconds later, and it would onlyget down to 150.
And usually a fit athlete, itshould be down in the 130s.
And so I was thinking, okay, Itold my doctor that.

(33:04):
And so in 2015, I said, you knowwhat?
Maybe I'm going to try thisvegan thing.
And I read books that athletescould be vegan.
Very famously, Rebecca Sony, the2012 Olympic gold medals in 200
breasts.
She was vegan.
So I figured if those peoplecould do it, I could do it.
I couldn't do it.
I was fully vegan for threemonths, fully vegan.

(33:25):
And I lost like 15 pounds inthree months.
And I didn't see it.
My husband did.
And he was like, this has got tostop.
And I went to a swim meet, andbecause I'd lost those 15 pounds
of muscle, I swam terribly.
And so that was my wake-up call.
Because I was like, oh, I'm 185pounds.
Oh, that's great.
That's awesome.

(33:46):
And it just wasn't for me.
185 is too light for me.
I couldn't really pull throughthe water the way I wanted.
But I loved being vegan becauseit got my cholesterol numbers
down.
I felt better in training.
Actually, I was trained best I'dever trained.
But I wasn't racing well.
People looked at me and said,gosh, you're so lean.
Like at that meat where I swamhorribly, people were like,
You're so lean.

(34:07):
And I'm like, thanks.
It's not something I'd everheard.
And so I said, okay, I like thevegan lifestyle.
It's helping my body.
It's helping my cholesterol.
I could feel better in training,but it's not helping my racing.
So the answer was that I neededmore and put animal protein back
in my diet.
So I call myself a daytimevegan.
So for breakfast, lunch, I havevegan foods.

(34:29):
I have oatmeal with almond milkevery almost every morning.
Lunch might be a peanut butterand jelly sandwich pasta.
Pasta is big for me.
I'll have a tofu salad.
Some of the plant-basedhamburgers that they sell are
very, very good.
And I'll, you know, make some ofthose.
So I could do that.
And then at night, chickenbreasts, beef, pork, whatever.

(34:51):
You know, there's no limit towhat I'll eat.
And I found that really helped.
It put the muscle weight backon.
And the next season I swamnormal.
I swam my normal stuff again.
So that's been true for me since2015.
And I have not looked back.
I love doing it.
It's hard when I travelsometimes, but it's really
worked well for me.

SPEAKER_02 (35:12):
How about your cholesterol?
Did it stay down on thepartially vegan diet?

SPEAKER_03 (35:15):
It's in the 150s.

SPEAKER_02 (35:17):
Oh, wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 (35:18):
It dropped 50 points and it stayed there.
And so my doctor's very happywith it.
I'm still on the cholesterolmedication, then that'll never
go away.
But yeah, the vegan diet hasreally helped.
And again, it's not like I waseating junk food, but you know,
I think it's the processed foodthat we eat every day that
contributes to it.
You know, I'm not big.
I actually, before I went vegan,I would always look at labels

(35:38):
and try not to eat foods thathad high fructose corn syrup or
anything like that.
And it's hard to get away fromthat.
It really is.
But, you know, with the veganfoods, you can kind of forces
you to really do that.
It kind of makes you feel likeyou're going more organic.
And, you know, I used to lovevegetables.
Broccoli is like almost dailyfood for me.
I put it in my pasta, I'll putit in my tofu salad.

(36:01):
I'll put it, you know, if I'mhaving a burger, I'll have
burgers with, you know, steamedbroccoli.
And I love the lifestyle.
It's very easy to do.
Again, like swimming, if you'reconsistent with it and you
really want to do it, it's not aproblem.

SPEAKER_02 (36:14):
Did it help your blood pressure as well?
Does it help your blood pressureas well?

SPEAKER_03 (36:17):
Yeah, it does.
I would say probably the bigthing that's affecting my blood
pressure now is stress.
You know, the stress of beingthe owner of a company and being
your own boss and having afull-time job, it can carry some
stress.
And I know it does create someof the blood pressure problems.
And I'm getting better with it.
But yeah, I go to the doctor andyou know, it's actually pretty
good.
But, you know, when my diastolicis above 130, they're kind of

(36:41):
give me this look.
But in general, it's much betterthan it used to be.

SPEAKER_01 (36:45):
So, Jeff, when you explain swimmers for change, and
then tell us what we can do tobring more people of color into
the sport of swimming.
What can we do?
What's swimmers for change andwhat can our listeners do to
bring more people of color?

SPEAKER_03 (37:00):
Yes, swimmers for change is a really good program.
We're just trying to get, we'rejust trying to create the
diversity on the pool deck.
And when you're talking aboutwhat you can do, if you know
someone who may be Hispanic,African American, Asian, who is
just thinking about that littlethought about I could be a
swimmer too, take them to thepool.

(37:22):
Sign them up for a swim lesson.
Don't just say, oh, you shoulddo it.
You know, be actively involvedin getting that person into the
pool.
Don't just have them say, oh,I'll think about it.
You know, if they think aboutit, six months later, they're
going to tell you again, I'llthink about it.
You know, like I said, surprisethem with a swim lesson.
Say, okay, let's just start witha swim lesson.
Let's see where you are.

(37:43):
Or if they know how to swim,say, hey, come join me for a
master's workout.
Or, you know, maybe go to apublic pool with them and just
let's just swim together for 15minutes and see what it feels
like.
Don't just assume that they'lldo it by themselves.
You have to kind of give themthat gentle shove and they'll do
it.
And they really will.
And I I've built a career offthis for the past, well,

(38:04):
full-time career for the pastseven years of talking to people
about, you know, you should getin the water.
And they say, Yeah, I'll thinkabout it.
But I I know they'll never do itthe next day or that day.
And I say, Well, let me takeyour phone number and I'll give
you a call and talk to you moreabout it.
And I take their phone number.
If I don't see them sign up fora swim lesson within a week, I
call them and I say, Whatquestions do you have?

(38:26):
And I they actually are havingquestions about, you know, I
don't know if this is right forme.
And I tell them, there's nothingwrong with just doing it.
And when you're talking aboutespecially African-American
people, it's a built-in fear of50 plus years of society saying,
swimming's not for you.
They were kicked out of pools.
They were, you know, bleach wasthrown in the pool because they

(38:48):
were in it.
So that's built into theirparents saying, that was my
experience.
And yeah, society may bechanging, but yeah, it's not a
good memory for them, andthey're not going to put their
kids in the water.
Thankfully, my mother didn'tthink that way.
And, you know, here I am.

SPEAKER_01 (39:02):
I love the advice of grab your friend, grab the
person that you know you thinkmight be a candidate to learn to
swim, or even just join yourmaster's program and bring them
down to the pool.
But that I love it.
Beautiful advice, man.
That is good stuff.
Jeff, are you ready to play?

SPEAKER_03 (39:20):
Let's go.
Joe Bar.

SPEAKER_01 (39:24):
Okay.
Cat or dog?

SPEAKER_03 (39:26):
Oh, I can't answer that because I have a cat and a
dog.

SPEAKER_01 (39:29):
Oh no.
That's like saying which is yourfavorite child, right?

SPEAKER_03 (39:33):
Yeah, I grew up with dogs and I was always a dog
person.
We got the cat, I said, I don'tknow if I'll be a cat person.
Then I spent two minutes withher and I was a cat person.

SPEAKER_01 (39:42):
So cat and dog.
Okay, okay.
Are you a bed maker or not a bedmaker?

SPEAKER_03 (39:49):
I am not a bed maker, not in the least.

SPEAKER_01 (39:52):
Okay.
Milk chocolate or darkchocolate?

SPEAKER_03 (39:54):
Dark chocolate for vegan purposes.

SPEAKER_01 (39:56):
Okay.
Kickboard or no kickboard.

SPEAKER_03 (39:59):
No kickboard.

SPEAKER_01 (40:00):
Okay.
Mountains or beach?

SPEAKER_03 (40:03):
Beach, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 (40:04):
Football or baseball?

SPEAKER_03 (40:06):
Neither.

SPEAKER_01 (40:08):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (40:09):
If I had to pick, I would say baseball.

SPEAKER_01 (40:11):
Okay.
Baseball.
iPhone or Android?

SPEAKER_03 (40:15):
Android.

SPEAKER_01 (40:16):
Coffee or tea?

SPEAKER_03 (40:17):
I hate coffee and tea's good in the winter, so
tea.

SPEAKER_01 (40:21):
Are you a morning person or a night owl?

SPEAKER_03 (40:23):
I do not like having to wake up early to swim.
So I would say I'm a night owl.

SPEAKER_01 (40:28):
Okay.
Does Jeff Cummings have anytattoos?

SPEAKER_03 (40:32):
No tattoos.
No, that will never happen.
I'll tell you just a quickstory.
I when I was in college,everybody on the University of
Texas team, not everybody, butit was a thing.
You wanted to get a longhorntattoo on your body.
And my sophomore year, myroommate got one, and a couple
other swimmers I were goodfriends with, they got their
tattoos.
And they said, and I was drivingthem there to get their tattoos.

(40:55):
And they said, Oh, you got to goin and get a tattoo.
And I I went in and saw how itwas done, and I said, No way.
No way.
I will wear all kinds of burntorange clothes.
I will show my burnt orange UTPride however I can, but no
tattoos.
I will never wear tattoos.
I see people with tattoos, and Idon't know, part of me thinks

(41:17):
they're cool, but yeah, you'rewell, no, it'll never happen.

SPEAKER_01 (41:22):
Yeah, yeah.
I hear you.
I hear you.
Marie's got some for you.

SPEAKER_02 (41:26):
I got seven.
I love that.
The little mini speech ontattoos.
I feel the same way.
Favorite your favorite color,Jeff.

SPEAKER_03 (41:34):
Blue.

SPEAKER_02 (41:34):
Favorite pizza topping.
Pepperoni.
Favorite vegetable.

SPEAKER_03 (41:39):
Broccoli, as I already said.

SPEAKER_02 (41:41):
We knew that was coming.
Yes.
Favorite swim complex thatyou've swum in in the US.

SPEAKER_03 (41:46):
Ooh.
Well, I'd have to say, oh, thisis tough.
I've swum at the Indianapolispool a lot for college and
whatnot.
I would say probably the KingCounty Aquatic Center outside of
Seattle had a couple of reallygood meets there.

SPEAKER_02 (42:02):
Nice.
What kind of music do you like?

SPEAKER_03 (42:05):
I like anything film-related.
So film scores, movie songs.
I just love putting on JohnWilliams music.
Just, I mean, talk about gettingaway from things.
I put on his music and I'm outof this universe into his music.

SPEAKER_02 (42:18):
Do you have to watch the films that go with the
music?

SPEAKER_03 (42:21):
No, I'll listen to the music and I know which scene
it's for.
It takes me back to that sceneor just the emotion that it's
supposed to create.

SPEAKER_02 (42:28):
Nice.
What's your shoe size?
13.
Can you cook?

SPEAKER_03 (42:33):
I can.
I love cooking.
I actually, another quick story.
Because I was raised by a singlemother when I was 12, my older
brother was 10 years older,moved out of the house, and I
had late swim practices.
And sometimes my mother wouldhave food already ready for me
when I came home.
And sometimes I'd be like, Mom,I'll just make grilled cheese or
something.

(42:53):
So I learned how to make foodfor myself when I was a teenager
because I'd come home so late,she'd be tired or whatever.
Especially when I learned todrive, I would drive home from
swim practice, it'd be late,like 8:30 or sometimes nine.
And I'd be hungry, and my momwould probably be like, I didn't
make anything.
Can you make something?
And it would be, you know, I'dtry to whip up some things.
I wouldn't just pour soup out ofa can into a bowl.

(43:15):
So she and my grandmother bothhelped me learn how to cook, and
I still do it to this day.
Love doing it.

SPEAKER_02 (43:20):
Nice.
Okay, here's the last one.
What word comes to mind mostwhen you dive in the water?

SPEAKER_03 (43:27):
Oh.
Ah.

SPEAKER_01 (43:32):
Oh, that was a great one.

SPEAKER_02 (43:33):
That is a great one.

SPEAKER_01 (43:34):
Yeah.
Jeff, this has been sowonderful.
I've gotten so much out of it.
I know you know my husband,who's a huge fan of yours and
swims in your age group and justthinks you are a god.
I've asked every question hewanted to know.
So I think everybody is going tobe thrilled to hear what makes
you a champion.
And it's pretty obvious.
So thank you.
Thank you for your time today.

SPEAKER_03 (43:55):
Yeah.
And being a champion is not justworking hard.
I think it's having fun too anddoing what you love.
And I love swimming.
I can't do any other sports, sothis is it, but I love doing it
every day.
And if I didn't love doing it, Iwouldn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 (44:07):
Yep.
Thanks.
Awesome.
Thank you, Jeff.

SPEAKER_00 (44:11):
Thank you both.
Stay tuned for the takeaways.
Want to succeed like a champion?
Five-time Olympic coach BobBowman, coach of Olympic legend
Michael Phelps, says Kelly'sbook, Take Your Mark Lead, is a
powerful addition to yourpersonal improvement library,
and learners from all walks oflife will gain key insights and

(44:31):
enjoy this inspiring book.
Take your Mark Lead debuted asan Amazon number one bestseller
in five categories and isavailable online.
And now the takeaways.

SPEAKER_01 (44:44):
Okay, Maria, what a fantastic interview.
As I said, I got so much out ofthat.
And I think, you know, this isthe second time that, you know,
we've interviewed Jeff, and thiswas a very different interview,
different subjects, differentquestions.
What was your first takeaway?

SPEAKER_02 (45:00):
Oh, there was so much value in any everything you
had to say.
And he's just got a beautifulvoice and he's so easy to listen
to.
I could have gone on talking tohim.
But one of the things that, andI said it in the interview that
really resonated with me is, youknow, what do you think about
when it's getting uncomfortable?
You know, and and for all of us,it's the lactic acid building
up.

(45:21):
Well, at least that's the casefor me.
I mean, when I feel that burn,whether I'm cycling or or doing
something else, I haven't, as Ihaven't gotten into really the
ability to build up lactic acidin my swimming yet.
I'm just trying to learn to swimstill.
But but you know, so what do youthink about?
And he said two things.
When he said, I I imagine myselfracing, because when you're
actually gonna race, and hewants, you know, he's

(45:42):
competitive, he wants to do oneelse race.
So he I imagine myself racing,and I think this is what I'm
gonna have to do to get better,and also while I race.
But the second thing, which I'veused as well, but I'm gonna use
it more consistently, is hesaid, I imagine what my rivals
are doing.
You know, so if you'recompetitive, if you're getting
out there and competing, yourrivals are out there, they're
training hard.

(46:02):
If you, you know, if it getsuncomfortable, I'm gonna remind
myself, oh yeah, you know, theperson out there who has a
chance of beating me in thisevent that I'm gonna do is also
out there training really hard.
So I better, you know, justtrain as hard or harder than he
or she is.
So that, you know, that reallyspoke to me.
What about you, Kelly?
What's your first takeaway?

SPEAKER_01 (46:21):
Well, on that one, I really think that can obviously
apply to athletics, whateverspray you're in, you know
somebody's training.
But I even think that can applyto running a business.
Oh, sure.
Being, you know, being a goodparent, anything that you're
trying to do, you're looking ata role model or not just a role
model, but also who are youcompeting against in business?
How hard are they working?

(46:42):
And, you know, something assimple as I know this is crazy,
we just finally got our yard,our landscaping in shape,
finally.
And it's like one of the reasonsthat I wanted to do it is
because we were kind of like thehouse in the neighborhood that
our yard didn't look good.
And I wanted to do it thinkingabout what my neighbors do.
You know, oh, my neighbors dothat.
So I think you can do that,compare yourself on almost any

(47:06):
level, certainly when you wantto be competitive.
What are your competitors doing?
But I I really like that one.
My first one was like that Jeffis just a hard, hard worker.
I mean, I know we know that hardwork is so important to achieve
any goal of any kind, but thishe takes it to the next level,

(47:27):
which we've talked about, whichis pushing, walking through that
barrier of pain, crossing thepain threshold.
Yes.
And that is something that thetop people have to do.
And it's not even that to be thetop person.
I think it's to take yourathletics to the next step.
So if you're just getting intomaster swimming and you want to

(47:50):
break into the lane that nowyou're in the lane that does
hundreds on 150, but you want tobe in the lane that does
hundreds on 130, well, you'regonna have to be in pain.
You know, you cannot swim 10,100s on 150 over and over and
never get into pain.
So if you want to get, you haveto hurt.

(48:11):
And that is what Jeff is willingto hurt.
I like that.
I love that.
He's willing to be in pain.
He's willing to work hard.
He does it almost every workout.
And that is a commonality that Isee in all champions.

SPEAKER_02 (48:25):
And I'm gonna do the same thing you did with my
takeaway and apply that to life.
You have to get uncomfortable togrow.
And so that's true for business,that's true in relationships.
And so we won't call it pain,but you got to get outside of
what you can easily do, right?
If I'm always doing what I canknow I can do, I'm never gonna
grow.
I'm not gonna build my business.

(48:45):
I'm not gonna, you know, so Ihave to be willing to do
something that's new anddifferent and uncomfortable.
So I love that.
Yeah, that's a great takeaway,Kelly.

SPEAKER_01 (48:53):
Okay, Maria, what's your last one?

SPEAKER_02 (48:55):
My second takeaway is really appropriate for me
too, because my business iscycling and a lot of what I do
for athletics is cycling.
So I spent a lot of timethinking about bicycles and
doing cycling.
And his his sort of last thingthat he wanted to say was he,
because he his business isswimming and his and his pastime
is swimming, that he tries to dosome things that are just not

(49:17):
swimming.
So he tries to to take it andhe's intentional about he goes
to movies on Mondays.
I love that.
You know, just to try tocompletely detach from the
swimming world.
And I think that's I thinkthat's really important.
You know, whatever we're doingin life and sports is, you know,
and even for me, I can say,well, I'm not cycling, I'm

(49:37):
swimming.
It's but I think it's importantalso to pick up a book and read.
And that, you know, it's been, Iwas thinking about that this
morning.
It's been so long since I'veread.
I listen to books, I listen to alot of stuff, but reading is
different and I want to do moreof it, and it's completely
different from anything else Ido.
So I like that, you know, wetalk about as the alternating
theory of happiness.
It's hard to be just totallyfocused 100% of the time on one

(50:00):
thing.

SPEAKER_01 (50:01):
Yeah, that's really, really good to have time away.
Okay, my final and wrapping upis the one that blew me away is
stretching.
Yeah.
You know, just like you don'thear that enough.
You know, and some I don't do itenough.
For those of you that are justlistening, well, you we're only
doing the audio on this, butJeff is a big, strong, strapping

(50:22):
man.
I mean, he's not like somebodythat you would think as a
ballerina or, you know, agymnast or somebody that's
that's constantly moving,swinging.
You know, he's a big, strongswimmer.
And you think, I just wouldn'tthink of him stretching, but
that must be one of his secretweapons because he said it's
really important to stretch.

(50:43):
It moves lactic acid.
And I think we could all stretchmore, but you just don't think
of, you know, this greatsprinter.
You just don't hear that enough.

SPEAKER_02 (50:53):
Yeah, that really spoke to me too.
I don't it just feels like onemore thing.
But if it's gonna make me abetter athlete, I'm gonna start
doing it.
But a key thing.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 (51:06):
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