Brand New episode! What if the missing link in your recovery isn’t another supplement or stretch, but energy at the cellular level? We sit down with Dr. Zulia Frost—medical doctor, researcher, and co-founder of Recharge Health—to unpack how photobiomodulation, neuromodulation, and sound can help your body heal faster, perform better, and sleep deeper without side effects.
Zulia’s story is a powerful one: a devastating car accident, spinal fractures, and paralysis in her right leg. Conventional care saved her life, but it was targeted red and infrared light, gentle nerve stimulation, and a disciplined movement routine that rebuilt it. She explains in plain language how red and near-infrared wavelengths interact with mitochondria to increase ATP, release nitric oxide, and open blood flow—key steps that reduce pain, accelerate collagen repair, and restore function in joints and muscles. We compare sunlight to devices, discuss why consistent dosing matters, and reveal why wearable, skin-contact designs can deliver a reliable, high-intensity dose where you need it most.
Get 10% off on FlexBeam at www.ChampionsMojo.com/FlexBeam and enter championsmojo as a coupon code at check out.
Pain lives in the nervous system as much as in tissue, so we dive into neuromodulation for endorphin-driven relief and layer in sound therapy to shift brain waves toward calm. Zulia shares practical routines for athletes and everyday movers: short sessions for acute injuries, broader mapping for chronic issues, and pre-activation before training to boost output. She also offers simple, science-backed habits—consistent bedtimes, a few minutes of morning red light over the chest or abdomen, stretching before the day’s load, and brief walks—that support circadian rhythm, gut health, and resilience over time. We close with clear guidance on facial use, eye safety, and how to personalize settings without guesswork.
Whether you’re rehabbing a shoulder, chasing a PR in the pool, or trying to sleep through the night, this conversation gives you a practical blueprint to turn light, sound, and routine into results. If this helped you rethink recovery, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review to help others find it.
• photobiomodulation basics and why mitochondria matter
• nitric oxide, blood flow, and faster tissue repair
• wearable versus panel devices and sunlight trade-offs
• dosing for acute injuries, chronic pain, and sport prep
• neuromodulation for pain relief and endorphins
• sound therapy, brain waves, and deeper sleep
• routines for circadian health, stretching, and breathing
• gut microbiome support with red light
• safe face use and eye protection guidance
• a proactive approach to long-term vitality
Visit Recharge Health to learn more about FlexBeam and create your routine today
Email us at HELLO@ChampionsMojo.com. Opinions discussed are not medical advice, please seek a medical professional for your own health concerns.
Check out Kelly's Books at www.KellyPalace.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hello, friends.
Welcome to the Champions Mojopodcast, where we bring you
valuable interviews and topicsto help you live well and swim
well.
Topics that are especiallyinteresting to master swimmers
or anyone striving to performbetter in the pool or in life.
I'm your host, Kelly Pallas.
Today's guest is a truetrailblazer in modern healing,
(00:24):
and you are going to want tostick around to hear about some
science-backed innovations fortherapies that will make us
recover faster and livehealthier.
Our guest today is Dr.
Zulia Frost.
She began her career as atraditional medical doctor
following the familiar path ofcharts, checklists, and
(00:46):
protocols until a devastatingcar accident changed everything
for her.
That experience became herturning point, revealing the
body's extraordinary ability toheal when given the right
support.
With over 30 years of experiencebridging Eastern and Western
(01:07):
medicine, Dr.
Frost has become one of theworld's leading experts in
photobiomodulation,neuromodulation, and energy
medicine.
As the co-founder and clinicaldirector of Recharge Health,
she's helping thousands reclaimtheir vitality through
(01:27):
light-based, non-invasivetherapies.
And she's on a mission to makethese science-backed innovations
accessible to everyone.
And I want to share one of themain reasons I wanted to have
Dr.
Frost on the show is becauseshe's a true expert in red light
therapy, a powerful recoverytool for athletes.
(01:50):
And I personally have been usingred light therapy myself for
years, and I've experiencedfirsthand how transformative it
can be.
This is an evolving sciencethat's gaining traction with
athletes and healthprofessionals around the world.
And today we have the perfectguest to help us understand how
(02:11):
it works and what the latestresearch reveals and how we can
use light to recover, heal, andperform at our best.
I'm so excited to have Dr.
Zulia Frost on the show.
Welcome to the show, Dr.
Frost.
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
Thank you so much, Kelly, for inviting me.
I look forward to sharing withmy knowledge.
SPEAKER_01 (02:33):
I know you are a globetrotter, Dr.
Frost.
Right now, where are you in thisbig world?
Right now I'm in Barcelona,Spain.
You are actually with RechargeHealth, which is a company out
of Norway.
Tell us about that.
SPEAKER_00 (02:52):
Yes, I co-founded Recharge Health.
So we actually started sevenyears ago.
SPEAKER_01 (02:59):
And in reading about you, I learned that Recharge
Health is about non-invasivetherapies, which you learned to
lean into when you had aterrible accident yourself,
which caused you a lot of pain.
Could you tell us about that?
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
Oh my goodness it's uh it's some few years ago, but
the accident was actuallydeadly.
I I seriously was so close todying.
And somehow I managed tosurvive.
And I was left with uhdebilitating pain because I had
three fractures in the spine,and I was only diagnosed with
(03:42):
one fracture, that the other Ilearned that I had at later
time.
And I also was left with uh myright leg was paralyzed, so I I
thought I would never walk.
And you know, when you're youngand you suddenly find yourself
from being 100% top physicalhealth into the prospect of
(04:06):
being in the in a wheelchair forthe rest of your life is not
really that exciting.
And so, yes, pain is one thing.
Pain was at the beginning likenumber one issue.
I struggled with time, and thenof course, it took me months and
months to recover, but I stillthink I recovered a lot faster
(04:28):
than other people did.
Thanks to my knowledge, thanksto my body, which was very
intuitive, and uh, I designedall my exercise program, and I
had a really strong will torecover.
That's something we should talkabout as well.
SPEAKER_01 (04:49):
I'm sure we would all love to hear about how the
will to recover plays a role inour healing and recovery.
SPEAKER_00 (04:58):
I am not a great person to take much medication.
I'm rather sensitive to it.
I was already then looking for anatural way to get my physical
health back.
After gaining control of thepain, what was left after the
accident is that two, threetimes a week I would come when
(05:20):
sciatica type of pain would comeback, and it's really like
relentless.
And you feel depressed, you feellike nothing you want to do in
the world.
So I looked at the way how bodyworks naturally, and I actually
experienced what it's like to bea patient after being a doctor,
(05:43):
so I I we swap places and Ilearn a lot from that
experience.
I learned that uh physicalenergy is very important, so
exercise was absolutelyparamount for me, but also this
uh the light because I used todo jokes uh very early in the
(06:04):
morning, I would plan to jokeand meet the sunrise in front of
the mountains, and you you sortof sort of worship that sunrise,
you you uh gain that healing redlights from it.
And I discovered tools veryearly in my time, the tools
(06:27):
which using this light,electricity, sound, which can
actually potentiate yourhealing.
And uh thanks to those tools Ivery quickly became pain-free,
and then I was able to maintainmy health.
And once I experienced thismyself, the transformation, the
(06:48):
fact that I could do nowliterally everything, and uh I
could do physical activity Icouldn't dream of when I was uh
lying in that wards in ahospital.
I now feel like almost like Ihave to tell the world about my
experience because it was sotransformative and made me look
(07:12):
into different ways of healingand utilize the uh energy aspect
by physical aspect of our body.
And soon I learned that youcould do a lot and all these
applications, they really arequite safe, they don't have side
effects.
Uh, with that in mind, Ipracticed then of course with
(07:34):
patients, and patients wouldhave tremendous fast recovery,
and they would ask me why nobodywas telling me about this.
And that's why I feel like I Ihave now to send a message to
everyone.
Let's look collectively into ourphysical being, not just
chemical being.
SPEAKER_01 (07:56):
I love your passion for getting this message out
there.
Could you explain to us some ofthe words from the introduction?
What photobiomodulation is andneuromodulation, maybe the two
differences in those specificthings and energy medicine, and
how they're all connected withmodalities for healing.
SPEAKER_00 (08:19):
Yes, this is something new for people to
know, but uh really it's uhstraightforward.
It's just uh it's uh just ajargon, scientist jargon, yes,
to put things complicated.
Um the photobimodulation isbasically the science of using
light at low intensities.
(08:39):
Well, you could it could be asunlight, it could be any kind
of lights, but the uh lightwhich modulates the body
responses.
So if you, for example, haveinability to sleep, it may help
you to regulate your sleeppattern, and then you would be
able to go back and sleep, yes?
(09:00):
The the light has impact on thebody.
When you talk aboutneuromodulation, it's to
activate your nerve endings,which typically uh lives in your
skin, yes?
So this is how the bodycommunicates with the external
world through the skin, and skinreflects everything what is
inside you, but also translateany stimulus which comes from
(09:24):
outside to your nervous system.
It sends messages and say, look,there is a danger, or opposite,
I am relaxed, uh, everything isgood.
So if you can use any form ofstimulation to activate this
nerve endings, then you cancontrol pain, you can modulate
your pain responses.
(09:45):
Or beyond that, because you sendmessage to the brain, and our
mighty brain knows how to keepyour body sort of in a survival
range of uh good parameters.
So you could use also sound, youcan use uh you can create
resonance patterns with sound,and you also can impact the
(10:06):
cells.
In this case, the sound, energyfrom the sound could come and
empower the cell energeticprocesses distantly, with no,
you know, it's it's justphysics, it works on the
physical level.
And of course, maybe for mostpeople quite an alien concept,
(10:28):
but trust me, it's been in theresearch for the last 50 years,
these modalysis, and they trulywork.
And uh I know because I've beeninvolved in the development of
the uh different devices andtherapies, that it does work.
My patients tell me so.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
Yes, and I think on a gut level, if we really listen
to our bodies and our minds whatfeels best, we do know that we
feel great when we're on a sunnyvacation or we peek a hill and
see the sunrise or the sunset.
And listening to some beautifulsounds, those all definitely
(11:09):
affect us.
So I'm sure that's part of thehealing process.
And in your research, do you usethese combinations of therapy
immediately?
Or where would you start ifsomeone came in, say, with an
acute shoulder problem or backpain or knee pain?
Where would you start with them?
SPEAKER_00 (11:28):
I would start straight there with hurts.
And why?
Because the whole body isfocused on that already.
The whole body recognizes whenyou're injured.
And uh the body is very clever.
It tried to maintain balance, ittried to get you back uh on
track as soon as possible aswell.
(11:48):
But you know what my personaldiscovery is uh that why people
not often heal very well, it'sbecause they don't have enough
energy at the physicalfundamental level.
Because the energy is generatedinside each of your cells in the
organelle called mitochondria.
(12:10):
And this mitochondria has towork all day long to produce
these energy molecules calledATP.
And these energy molecules theyengage in every chemical
process.
So if you don't have asufficient amount of energy, you
just won't, the cell won'tperform the healing responses.
(12:31):
So if we manage to give anddeliver this energy directly to
the affected cells, just bydoing this, we already
potentiate the healing.
And uh when you have energy, youheal a lot faster.
And of course, you probablyobserve this.
Children they heal very, veryquick compared to very old
(12:54):
people, and very old people theyhave decline in this
mitochondria, they have lessnumber of mitochondria, they
have more toxic and pollutedmitochondria, so they're
dysfunctional.
And um, of course, themitochondria is also sensitive
to environmental toxins.
And thank God we we when thosepeople who look after
(13:17):
themselves, they're minimizingthis and they stay younger, but
there are people who just youknow bombarding body with toxins
all day long, and then theysurprise why that why can't they
heal?
SPEAKER_01 (13:31):
Gosh, it makes so much sense that we would need
energy to heal.
SPEAKER_00 (13:36):
How does that work?
Yes, for example, if I use flexbeam device, this is uh light
generating device, it produceslight very similar, it's the
same wavelengths as thesunshine.
Yes, the sunshines uh just giveyou an example, and it gives you
(13:57):
all different spectrum.
Red, green, blue, yellow, itcollectively creates white
lights.
Uh what the scientists found isthat uh certain spectrum of
light can have healing property,but of course it's uh not as
weak as sunshine, it's a littlebit more potent.
And then as sunshine shines onthe cells, and uh, the cells
(14:22):
through evolution learn how toharvest the particles of this
light, they call photons.
So these processes typicallyhappen in mitochondria when we
use red and uh infrared light,for example, is the most
beneficial for healing.
You really have two players.
(14:42):
Yeah, you have the photon oflight, and in your body you have
a receptor to bind that photon,yes?
And that receptor is lives inthe mitochondria.
So if we have these receptors,we can bind photons and we can
then speed the engine ofproducing energy faster.
(15:02):
So you have a lot more ATPmolecules which generate energy.
So when you have this flex beamor uh red light therapy device
generating red and infraredlight, in the area which you
shine, you can speed up themotor and make more and more
energy for the cells.
(15:24):
And as a result, the wholehealing is faster.
There are some other mechanismsas well.
So during this process, yourcell bind oxygen better and they
release nitric oxide.
And nitric oxide, maybe somepeople don't know, but it's
really, really good one becauseit opens up blood supply.
(15:48):
So in this shoulder, whichyou're trying to fix after
surgery, A, you give the energy,and B, you open up collaterals
and more blood coming here,bringing oxygen, nutrients, all
the bricks of the healing of thetissue.
And then, of course, you've gotthe collagen, and this collagen
(16:08):
as well becomes much strongerand lasting, and it's just the
whole healing, like on styloids.
SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
I've got a couple of items for you.
One is just an explanation forour listeners, the flex beam
product, it's different thanmost red light therapies because
it is a portable, flexible,personal wearable red light
device.
I described my big, stiff, heavypanel.
(16:40):
I couldn't transport it to aswim meet or travel with it in
my luggage, but the flex beam isa wearable device that has more
of a high intensity.
So you don't need to guess, do Ineed to be 20 inches away from
it or four inches away from it?
It's all set up so you just putit on you and you have the right
(17:02):
dosage of photobiomodulation.
That is what the flex beam is.
Dr.
Frost, have I missed anything indescribing it?
Because I do have a follow-upquestion that I think listeners
may have in their mind.
SPEAKER_00 (17:16):
Okay, Lee, it's uh it's perfect.
I just want to add that thepanels were discovered
accidentally because NASAscientists was working with the
panels to create plants inspace, and they use red lights.
And his hands were there underthe lights, and they had ulcers
(17:37):
or some skin disease.
And that red lights suddenlyheal his hands very quickly.
So uh these panels are reallydesigned for plants, yes,
because plants not moving likewe human beings.
So we were thinking, well, whatif we design something for human
(17:57):
body?
And if we have constantly inmobility, we can use something
flexible and we can put it righton the body, right in skin
contact.
We can wrap it aroundthree-dimensionally, and surely
delivery would be better becauseif you're standing too far away
from your panel, then you don'thave enough of that energy
(18:20):
density stimulation.
So that was our solution frombeing going from panels into
something wearable on the skin.
SPEAKER_01 (18:34):
Yes, that makes perfect sense because I'm never
sure should I be closer to thepanel or farther away.
I happen to be in Florida rightnow where there's plenty of
sunlight.
So why can't people just usesunlight?
SPEAKER_00 (18:48):
And I encourage everybody to go outdoor as often
as if you can.
Uh however, sunlight has thefull spectrum, including UV
spectrum, which you need to becareful about, yes?
Because UV is a very short, veryenergetic wave.
Uh, UVB is okay to use and it isused in medicine to treat
(19:12):
psoriasis.
But UVC, it's not okay, becausethat could cause skin cancer.
So you have to be careful withsunlights to be to do an
overexposure.
But I'd say half an hour in aday is actually good.
You feel good with this, yes?
But like you in Florida, whatabout uh our team in Norway?
(19:36):
Where right now is a true lackof sunlights.
And to be honest, not everybodyhas the opportunity to be
outdoors.
And we have office hours and wehave to rush and go home.
Uh, really, the solution is tohave some useful and safe um
spectrum of light at home, soyou can use it when you can't
(19:58):
see sunlight.
And some people live in citieswhere they don't even see the
sun because they're this youknow buildings blocking their
view, and this is unhealthy.
SPEAKER_01 (20:10):
Okay.
And I don't like the UV part ofthe sun.
I tend to get burned, so that isgreat.
That's great to hear.
Is it like ice where you can useit multiple times a day for 20
minutes, or is it three times aweek, or what would the dosage
be?
SPEAKER_00 (20:29):
It's all come from the uh the goal.
What is your goal?
Yes.
So the number one, like if youjust had an injury, it's very
fresh, it's there, it's a bigshock for the body.
Then you can use lights on theinjury or around the injury,
really depends uh on what you'redealing with.
But you can do it uh two times aday or three times a day, but
(20:52):
short.
Uh it's uh flex beam alwaysdesigned to produce always 10
minute stimulation.
The dose, which is quiteimportant aspect of a light
therapy, is programmed in these10 minutes.
So you can do from 10 minutes acouple of times a day or three
times a day, yes.
(21:13):
However, if your injury alreadybecame very chronic and it's
been there with the body a longtime, uh, it actually impacts
the whole body dynamics.
Yes, the posture, you startdeveloping compensation with it.
So then you'd need to use uhflex beam where you experience
(21:34):
pain 10 minutes, but also theninclude some other areas.
Like if you have right side thebottom of your body affected by
pain, then you need probably theother side top to see the
compensational pattern and thenapply.
It will be about 30 minutes aday.
And then there is anotherapplication, like if you don't
(21:55):
have any of this injury, yourecovered, you're all perfect,
but you want to maintain yourwellness.
So this one you can use, forexample, before you go into the
gym, you can use uh half an houron muscles which are gonna be
engaged.
Prepare yourself and you performmuch better, yes?
(22:17):
Or if you do swimmingcompetitions, I have the
suggestion to use of themuscles, the key muscles which
are gonna be engaged, yes?
So obviously the upper back,obviously the cords, big bulk of
muscles, and just stimulate withlight.
This is will prepare the bodyand give cells energy.
(22:39):
So depending on the goal, wegive people the possibility to
explore the device and uh evencreate the routine.
Some people use it routinelyevery day.
You can use it every single day.
SPEAKER_01 (22:55):
Very nice.
I would love for you to talk alittle bit about the
neurobiomodulation, like sound,if we want to use that as part
of our healing.
Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (23:07):
In my clinic, I work with patients and I use all
modalities almost at once, yes,unless, of course, if somebody
has really presented with veryspecific issue or focus on that.
With neurostimulation, it'sreally, really good on pain.
Like you know, to actuallyreduce pain level because you
(23:28):
stimulate the nerve, you send amessage to the brain and say,
Hey, I've got this issue.
And the clever brain would say,Okay, I need to release
endorphins because it reallyhurts.
Yes.
So your endorphins are much,much better uh in quality, and
uh they don't make you go dopey,like synthetic narcotics, yes,
(23:54):
and in and they release in suchatomic qualities in the body, so
they literally just counteractthat pain.
So I would combine with this, Iwould definitely use sound
therapy.
I use uh uh recorded tracks,which actually I took part in
this project to 432 Hz music, ifyou haven't heard of this.
(24:15):
But it's um a nice sort oftunes, more like um relaxation
sort of music.
And then uh we did EG and welooked that uh brain becomes
much more relaxed, but also theuh uh delta waves uh associated
with healing was really gettinghigher uh during the truck.
(24:39):
So now I know for sure if youcombine with uh sound healing as
well.
Then you heard of this the thebig uh crystal balls, yes, they
produce this resonant healing,so the whole body is vibrates,
it's also very potent, and uh II would say uh throw everything.
(25:02):
Uh nutrition is very important,exercise very important, and a
good sleep.
Good, good sleep is so superimportant in healing.
So if you are unable to sleep,you need to work on stress
management and get yourself tothe point when you can sleep.
SPEAKER_01 (25:20):
Oh, I think that's powerful.
So 432 hertz music.
I I think my husband listens tothat.
And the delta waves, the singingbowls or the crystal bowls, I I
love that.
I have a tiny little crystalsinging bowl.
And when I use that, the soundand the vibration of it does
just make me feel so calm andhelps me sleep.
(25:44):
It's really wonderful.
What are you seeing that mostpeople come to you with?
And how do how do we avoid theseproblems that you commonly see?
SPEAKER_00 (25:54):
Well, of course, first, of course, you need to
invest in fixing your problem.
And uh, to do this, you need toknow the core, where it's coming
from, what actually happened.
Because in the many scenarios,in the in the many scenarios,
what I see, people come, and thepain could be referred pain.
(26:17):
Very often people come withshoulder pain, but the cause is
in the neck.
So as a practitioner, I wouldpalpate, I would find where the
tension is, when there is askew, what is the body
mechanics, I need to assess itall.
And if you don't sleep, forexample, I need to understand
why you don't sleep, is it notenough melatonin in your body,
(26:39):
or you in stress release toomuch cortisol?
Yes, and then you can regulateagain through light therapy,
it's actually quite usefulbecause uh you can induce
melatonin production bystimulating with red light.
And you in the past it wasbelieved that you need to look
(27:00):
at red light, but now uh we knowthat even by places on the body,
you can improve your melatoninlevel, you can self-regulate
that melatonin.
What I'm trying to say once youfix your problem and you want to
stay well, you need to do aregime.
(27:22):
It contains many things.
Number one, I would say go tobed in the same time and wake up
in the same time.
It's important for yourcircadium rhythm.
When you wake up, don't jumpimmediately.
Oh, I have so much to do.
Yes.
I'll literally do this mentalexercise.
I think what is the mostimportant thing I want to
(27:44):
achieve today.
And uh, whilst in this kind ofsemi-meditative state, I put uh
flex beam on my chest becauseyou know the heart is here, or
on my stomach.
One thing I didn't tell youtoday is that uh when you
stimulate with lights, we havestudies now to say that it
(28:05):
improves gut microbiome, redlight specifically.
So I would normally put over theheart and stomach, and it takes
10 minutes, and then I stretch.
So stretching is very importantbecause you prepare the spine,
stretch, and then you get upwith all the gravity, suddenly
(28:26):
the whole body becomes but ifyou stretched enough, then you
become much more aligned andready for the day.
And uh then when you do thewhole as a routine, make sure
you exercise.
This is like absolutely must foreveryone.
If even if you're super busy,make 10 minutes.
(28:50):
Get up, stretch, get up and dodeep breathing.
But exercise, even smallexercise, even 10 minutes, you
quickly go around the block, youcome back, it's a different
person.
So I know everybody is busynowadays.
I know we have overload withinformation, but if you create
(29:12):
this little routine foryourself, then you would be much
more organized, less stressed.
SPEAKER_01 (29:19):
Actually, you mentioned the gut microbiome and
how red light can affect that.
Before we go to the very lastquestion, so you actually put
the flex beam on your stomachfor 10 minutes.
And is the flex beam all onedose, or can you change the
settings?
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (29:38):
And you can put either like horizontally across
the navel or vertically.
There are three programs, andeach program is designed uh at
what level you want to make inpart.
Like you're talking about at thebeginning about the skin issues.
Yes.
So the program one would addressskin issues, program two is A
(30:00):
little bit deeper, so uh joints,small joints like Achille, uh
the tendon, or something likethis would be good for program
two, and also this uh stomach orliver, you could do it as well
in program two, and programthree produces really deep
penetration stimulation, isright really concentrated, very,
(30:24):
very good with muscles, deepjoints.
So I would use three if I wantto prepare for swimming
competitions or really big somebig events.
I would just do all my keymuscles on three.
I want to really deeply toinduce that blood flow to induce
energy.
SPEAKER_01 (30:45):
So three settings.
What about the face?
Can we use this on the face?
SPEAKER_00 (30:51):
Yes, absolutely.
Everyone who's got flex beamasking me this question, saying,
Well, it's so good for my body,can I use it on the face?
Yes, you can.
Um uh normally we use programone because you want to affect
the collagen and use you want toaffect the state of your uh uh
collagen in the face, yes.
(31:12):
So program one, but don't forgetour device is super, super
potent.
It's like your panel, theenergy, the panel in this.
Imagine it's that pot and it'son the body in the close
contact, yes.
So for the face, we normally doit at about uh reading book
(31:34):
distance, yeah.
But I also want you to covereyes, it comes with a little uh
goggles for this situation.
Uh why?
Because again, light is reallypotent, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:46):
Yeah.
So I do want to explain to thoselistening and not looking
because we are on an audio here.
You were holding that flex beamup about 12 inches from your
face and saying to use goggles.
And I know there's been someresearch on macular
degeneration.
Can you use this for treatingmacular degeneration?
SPEAKER_00 (32:07):
The light should be less potent than ours in flex
beam.
I found it's a British company,they do uh goggles and they have
dedicated strengths of light formacular degeneration.
For flex beam, it's moreon-body, you know, recovery.
And uh I just think it's alittle bit too strong for the
(32:31):
eyes.
SPEAKER_01 (32:32):
Okay, that makes sense.
And that's what most of us arelooking for is muscle recovery.
I know I am.
So is there anything that wehave not talked about that you
wanted to share before we close?
SPEAKER_00 (32:47):
Um, I just want to say, you know, we came to this
new age.
Uh, we we really have to takecontrol of our health.
We have to empower ourselves, wehave to be proactive in our
health.
We shouldn't sit and wait, okay,when arthritis is gonna hit me,
right?
(33:07):
We should do everything we can,preserve this beautiful body so
it can blossom and function.
So even if you're 60, 70, and80, you still climb in the
Everest and live full quality oflife.
So there are some tools you canuse for that.
SPEAKER_01 (33:27):
Yes, and yes, and it's so refreshing to have tools
that aren't pharmaceutical ormedical or that have side
effects.
You really are doing greatthings in the world, Dr.
Frost, and we appreciate youspending this time with us today
and wishing you all the best.
Thank you for being on the show.
SPEAKER_00 (33:48):
Thank you so much, Kelly.
Hello, friends.
Welcome to the Champions Mojopodcast, where we bring you
valuable interviews and topicsto help you live well and swim
well.
Topics that are especiallyinteresting to master swimmers
or anyone striving to performbetter in the pool or in life.
I'm your host, Kelly Pallas.
Today's guest is a truetrailblazer in modern healing,
(00:24):
and you are going to want tostick around to hear about some
science-backed innovations fortherapies that will make us
recover faster and livehealthier.
Our guest today is Dr.
Zulia Frost.
She began her career as atraditional medical doctor
following the familiar path ofcharts, checklists, and
(00:46):
protocols until a devastatingcar accident changed everything
for her.
That experience became herturning point, revealing the
body's extraordinary ability toheal when given the right
support.
With over 30 years of experiencebridging Eastern and Western
(01:07):
medicine, Dr.
Frost has become one of theworld's leading experts in
photobiomodulation,neuromodulation, and energy
medicine.
As the co-founder and clinicaldirector of Recharge Health,
she's helping thousands reclaimtheir vitality through
(01:27):
light-based, non-invasivetherapies.
And she's on a mission to makethese science-backed innovations
accessible to everyone.
And I want to share one of themain reasons I wanted to have
Dr.
Frost on the show is becauseshe's a true expert in red light
therapy, a powerful recoverytool for athletes.
(01:50):
And I personally have been usingred light therapy myself for
years, and I've experiencedfirsthand how transformative it
can be.
This is an evolving sciencethat's gaining traction with
athletes and healthprofessionals around the world.
And today we have the perfectguest to help us understand how
(02:11):
it works and what the latestresearch reveals and how we can
use light to recover, heal, andperform at our best.
I'm so excited to have Dr.
Zulia Frost on the show.
Welcome to the show, Dr.
Frost.
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
Thank you so much, Kelly, for inviting me.
I look forward to sharing withmy knowledge.
SPEAKER_01 (02:33):
I know you are a globetrotter, Dr.
Frost.
Right now, where are you in thisbig world?
Right now I'm in Barcelona,Spain.
You are actually with RechargeHealth, which is a company out
of Norway.
Tell us about that.
SPEAKER_00 (02:52):
Yes, I co-founded Recharge Health.
So we actually started sevenyears ago.
SPEAKER_01 (02:59):
And in reading about you, I learned that Recharge
Health is about non-invasivetherapies, which you learned to
lean into when you had aterrible accident yourself,
which caused you a lot of pain.
Could you tell us about that?
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
Oh my goodness it's uh it's some few years ago, but
the accident was actuallydeadly.
I I seriously was so close todying.
And somehow I managed tosurvive.
And I was left with uhdebilitating pain because I had
three fractures in the spine,and I was only diagnosed with
(03:42):
one fracture, that the other Ilearned that I had at later
time.
And I also was left with uh myright leg was paralyzed, so I I
thought I would never walk.
And you know, when you're youngand you suddenly find yourself
from being 100% top physicalhealth into the prospect of
(04:06):
being in the in a wheelchair forthe rest of your life is not
really that exciting.
And so, yes, pain is one thing.
Pain was at the beginning likenumber one issue.
I struggled with time, and thenof course, it took me months and
months to recover, but I stillthink I recovered a lot faster
(04:28):
than other people did.
Thanks to my knowledge, thanksto my body, which was very
intuitive, and uh, I designedall my exercise program, and I
had a really strong will torecover.
That's something we should talkabout as well.
SPEAKER_01 (04:49):
I'm sure we would all love to hear about how the
will to recover plays a role inour healing and recovery.
SPEAKER_00 (04:58):
I am not a great person to take much medication.
I'm rather sensitive to it.
I was already then looking for anatural way to get my physical
health back.
After gaining control of thepain, what was left after the
accident is that two, threetimes a week I would come when
(05:20):
sciatica type of pain would comeback, and it's really like
relentless.
And you feel depressed, you feellike nothing you want to do in
the world.
So I looked at the way how bodyworks naturally, and I actually
experienced what it's like to bea patient after being a doctor,
(05:43):
so I I we swap places and Ilearn a lot from that
experience.
I learned that uh physicalenergy is very important, so
exercise was absolutelyparamount for me, but also this
uh the light because I used todo jokes uh very early in the
(06:04):
morning, I would plan to jokeand meet the sunrise in front of
the mountains, and you you sortof sort of worship that sunrise,
you you uh gain that healing redlights from it.
And I discovered tools veryearly in my time, the tools
(06:27):
which using this light,electricity, sound, which can
actually potentiate yourhealing.
And uh thanks to those tools Ivery quickly became pain-free,
and then I was able to maintainmy health.
And once I experienced thismyself, the transformation, the
(06:48):
fact that I could do nowliterally everything, and uh I
could do physical activity Icouldn't dream of when I was uh
lying in that wards in ahospital.
I now feel like almost like Ihave to tell the world about my
experience because it was sotransformative and made me look
(07:12):
into different ways of healingand utilize the uh energy aspect
by physical aspect of our body.
And soon I learned that youcould do a lot and all these
applications, they really arequite safe, they don't have side
effects.
Uh, with that in mind, Ipracticed then of course with
(07:34):
patients, and patients wouldhave tremendous fast recovery,
and they would ask me why nobodywas telling me about this.
And that's why I feel like I Ihave now to send a message to
everyone.
Let's look collectively into ourphysical being, not just
chemical being.
SPEAKER_01 (07:56):
I love your passion for getting this message out
there.
Could you explain to us some ofthe words from the introduction?
What photobiomodulation is andneuromodulation, maybe the two
differences in those specificthings and energy medicine, and
how they're all connected withmodalities for healing.
SPEAKER_00 (08:19):
Yes, this is something new for people to
know, but uh really it's uhstraightforward.
It's just uh it's uh just ajargon, scientist jargon, yes,
to put things complicated.
Um the photobimodulation isbasically the science of using
light at low intensities.
(08:39):
Well, you could it could be asunlight, it could be any kind
of lights, but the uh lightwhich modulates the body
responses.
So if you, for example, haveinability to sleep, it may help
you to regulate your sleeppattern, and then you would be
able to go back and sleep, yes?
(09:00):
The the light has impact on thebody.
When you talk aboutneuromodulation, it's to
activate your nerve endings,which typically uh lives in your
skin, yes?
So this is how the bodycommunicates with the external
world through the skin, and skinreflects everything what is
inside you, but also translateany stimulus which comes from
(09:24):
outside to your nervous system.
It sends messages and say, look,there is a danger, or opposite,
I am relaxed, uh, everything isgood.
So if you can use any form ofstimulation to activate this
nerve endings, then you cancontrol pain, you can modulate
your pain responses.
(09:45):
Or beyond that, because you sendmessage to the brain, and our
mighty brain knows how to keepyour body sort of in a survival
range of uh good parameters.
So you could use also sound, youcan use uh you can create
resonance patterns with sound,and you also can impact the
(10:06):
cells.
In this case, the sound, energyfrom the sound could come and
empower the cell energeticprocesses distantly, with no,
you know, it's it's justphysics, it works on the
physical level.
And of course, maybe for mostpeople quite an alien concept,
(10:28):
but trust me, it's been in theresearch for the last 50 years,
these modalysis, and they trulywork.
And uh I know because I've beeninvolved in the development of
the uh different devices andtherapies, that it does work.
My patients tell me so.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
Yes, and I think on a gut level, if we really listen
to our bodies and our minds whatfeels best, we do know that we
feel great when we're on a sunnyvacation or we peek a hill and
see the sunrise or the sunset.
And listening to some beautifulsounds, those all definitely
(11:09):
affect us.
So I'm sure that's part of thehealing process.
And in your research, do you usethese combinations of therapy
immediately?
Or where would you start ifsomeone came in, say, with an
acute shoulder problem or backpain or knee pain?
Where would you start with them?
SPEAKER_00 (11:28):
I would start straight there with hurts.
And why?
Because the whole body isfocused on that already.
The whole body recognizes whenyou're injured.
And uh the body is very clever.
It tried to maintain balance, ittried to get you back uh on
track as soon as possible aswell.
(11:48):
But you know what my personaldiscovery is uh that why people
not often heal very well, it'sbecause they don't have enough
energy at the physicalfundamental level.
Because the energy is generatedinside each of your cells in the
organelle called mitochondria.
(12:10):
And this mitochondria has towork all day long to produce
these energy molecules calledATP.
And these energy molecules theyengage in every chemical
process.
So if you don't have asufficient amount of energy, you
just won't, the cell won'tperform the healing responses.
(12:31):
So if we manage to give anddeliver this energy directly to
the affected cells, just bydoing this, we already
potentiate the healing.
And uh when you have energy, youheal a lot faster.
And of course, you probablyobserve this.
Children they heal very, veryquick compared to very old
(12:54):
people, and very old people theyhave decline in this
mitochondria, they have lessnumber of mitochondria, they
have more toxic and pollutedmitochondria, so they're
dysfunctional.
And um, of course, themitochondria is also sensitive
to environmental toxins.
And thank God we we when thosepeople who look after
(13:17):
themselves, they're minimizingthis and they stay younger, but
there are people who just youknow bombarding body with toxins
all day long, and then theysurprise why that why can't they
heal?
SPEAKER_01 (13:31):
Gosh, it makes so much sense that we would need
energy to heal.
SPEAKER_00 (13:36):
How does that work?
Yes, for example, if I use flexbeam device, this is uh light
generating device, it produceslight very similar, it's the
same wavelengths as thesunshine.
Yes, the sunshines uh just giveyou an example, and it gives you
(13:57):
all different spectrum.
Red, green, blue, yellow, itcollectively creates white
lights.
Uh what the scientists found isthat uh certain spectrum of
light can have healing property,but of course it's uh not as
weak as sunshine, it's a littlebit more potent.
And then as sunshine shines onthe cells, and uh, the cells
(14:22):
through evolution learn how toharvest the particles of this
light, they call photons.
So these processes typicallyhappen in mitochondria when we
use red and uh infrared light,for example, is the most
beneficial for healing.
You really have two players.
(14:42):
Yeah, you have the photon oflight, and in your body you have
a receptor to bind that photon,yes?
And that receptor is lives inthe mitochondria.
So if we have these receptors,we can bind photons and we can
then speed the engine ofproducing energy faster.
(15:02):
So you have a lot more ATPmolecules which generate energy.
So when you have this flex beamor uh red light therapy device
generating red and infraredlight, in the area which you
shine, you can speed up themotor and make more and more
energy for the cells.
(15:24):
And as a result, the wholehealing is faster.
There are some other mechanismsas well.
So during this process, yourcell bind oxygen better and they
release nitric oxide.
And nitric oxide, maybe somepeople don't know, but it's
really, really good one becauseit opens up blood supply.
(15:48):
So in this shoulder, whichyou're trying to fix after
surgery, A, you give the energy,and B, you open up collaterals
and more blood coming here,bringing oxygen, nutrients, all
the bricks of the healing of thetissue.
And then, of course, you've gotthe collagen, and this collagen
(16:08):
as well becomes much strongerand lasting, and it's just the
whole healing, like on styloids.
SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
I've got a couple of items for you.
One is just an explanation forour listeners, the flex beam
product, it's different thanmost red light therapies because
it is a portable, flexible,personal wearable red light
device.
I described my big, stiff, heavypanel.
(16:40):
I couldn't transport it to aswim meet or travel with it in
my luggage, but the flex beam isa wearable device that has more
of a high intensity.
So you don't need to guess, do Ineed to be 20 inches away from
it or four inches away from it?
It's all set up so you just putit on you and you have the right
(17:02):
dosage of photobiomodulation.
That is what the flex beam is.
Dr.
Frost, have I missed anything indescribing it?
Because I do have a follow-upquestion that I think listeners
may have in their mind.
SPEAKER_00 (17:16):
Okay, Lee, it's uh it's perfect.
I just want to add that thepanels were discovered
accidentally because NASAscientists was working with the
panels to create plants inspace, and they use red lights.
And his hands were there underthe lights, and they had ulcers
(17:37):
or some skin disease.
And that red lights suddenlyheal his hands very quickly.
So uh these panels are reallydesigned for plants, yes,
because plants not moving likewe human beings.
So we were thinking, well, whatif we design something for human
(17:57):
body?
And if we have constantly inmobility, we can use something
flexible and we can put it righton the body, right in skin
contact.
We can wrap it aroundthree-dimensionally, and surely
delivery would be better becauseif you're standing too far away
from your panel, then you don'thave enough of that energy
(18:20):
density stimulation.
So that was our solution frombeing going from panels into
something wearable on the skin.
SPEAKER_01 (18:34):
Yes, that makes perfect sense because I'm never
sure should I be closer to thepanel or farther away.
I happen to be in Florida rightnow where there's plenty of
sunlight.
So why can't people just usesunlight?
SPEAKER_00 (18:48):
And I encourage everybody to go outdoor as often
as if you can.
Uh however, sunlight has thefull spectrum, including UV
spectrum, which you need to becareful about, yes?
Because UV is a very short, veryenergetic wave.
Uh, UVB is okay to use and it isused in medicine to treat
(19:12):
psoriasis.
But UVC, it's not okay, becausethat could cause skin cancer.
So you have to be careful withsunlights to be to do an
overexposure.
But I'd say half an hour in aday is actually good.
You feel good with this, yes?
But like you in Florida, whatabout uh our team in Norway?
(19:36):
Where right now is a true lackof sunlights.
And to be honest, not everybodyhas the opportunity to be
outdoors.
And we have office hours and wehave to rush and go home.
Uh, really, the solution is tohave some useful and safe um
spectrum of light at home, soyou can use it when you can't
(19:58):
see sunlight.
And some people live in citieswhere they don't even see the
sun because they're this youknow buildings blocking their
view, and this is unhealthy.
SPEAKER_01 (20:10):
Okay.
And I don't like the UV part ofthe sun.
I tend to get burned, so that isgreat.
That's great to hear.
Is it like ice where you can useit multiple times a day for 20
minutes, or is it three times aweek, or what would the dosage
be?
SPEAKER_00 (20:29):
It's all come from the uh the goal.
What is your goal?
Yes.
So the number one, like if youjust had an injury, it's very
fresh, it's there, it's a bigshock for the body.
Then you can use lights on theinjury or around the injury,
really depends uh on what you'redealing with.
But you can do it uh two times aday or three times a day, but
(20:52):
short.
Uh it's uh flex beam alwaysdesigned to produce always 10
minute stimulation.
The dose, which is quiteimportant aspect of a light
therapy, is programmed in these10 minutes.
So you can do from 10 minutes acouple of times a day or three
times a day, yes.
(21:13):
However, if your injury alreadybecame very chronic and it's
been there with the body a longtime, uh, it actually impacts
the whole body dynamics.
Yes, the posture, you startdeveloping compensation with it.
So then you'd need to use uhflex beam where you experience
(21:34):
pain 10 minutes, but also theninclude some other areas.
Like if you have right side thebottom of your body affected by
pain, then you need probably theother side top to see the
compensational pattern and thenapply.
It will be about 30 minutes aday.
And then there is anotherapplication, like if you don't
(21:55):
have any of this injury, yourecovered, you're all perfect,
but you want to maintain yourwellness.
So this one you can use, forexample, before you go into the
gym, you can use uh half an houron muscles which are gonna be
engaged.
Prepare yourself and you performmuch better, yes?
(22:17):
Or if you do swimmingcompetitions, I have the
suggestion to use of themuscles, the key muscles which
are gonna be engaged, yes?
So obviously the upper back,obviously the cords, big bulk of
muscles, and just stimulate withlight.
This is will prepare the bodyand give cells energy.
(22:39):
So depending on the goal, wegive people the possibility to
explore the device and uh evencreate the routine.
Some people use it routinelyevery day.
You can use it every single day.
SPEAKER_01 (22:55):
Very nice.
I would love for you to talk alittle bit about the
neurobiomodulation, like sound,if we want to use that as part
of our healing.
Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (23:07):
In my clinic, I work with patients and I use all
modalities almost at once, yes,unless, of course, if somebody
has really presented with veryspecific issue or focus on that.
With neurostimulation, it'sreally, really good on pain.
Like you know, to actuallyreduce pain level because you
(23:28):
stimulate the nerve, you send amessage to the brain and say,
Hey, I've got this issue.
And the clever brain would say,Okay, I need to release
endorphins because it reallyhurts.
Yes.
So your endorphins are much,much better uh in quality, and
uh they don't make you go dopey,like synthetic narcotics, yes,
(23:54):
and in and they release in suchatomic qualities in the body, so
they literally just counteractthat pain.
So I would combine with this, Iwould definitely use sound
therapy.
I use uh uh recorded tracks,which actually I took part in
this project to 432 Hz music, ifyou haven't heard of this.
(24:15):
But it's um a nice sort oftunes, more like um relaxation
sort of music.
And then uh we did EG and welooked that uh brain becomes
much more relaxed, but also theuh uh delta waves uh associated
with healing was really gettinghigher uh during the truck.
(24:39):
So now I know for sure if youcombine with uh sound healing as
well.
Then you heard of this the thebig uh crystal balls, yes, they
produce this resonant healing,so the whole body is vibrates,
it's also very potent, and uh II would say uh throw everything.
(25:02):
Uh nutrition is very important,exercise very important, and a
good sleep.
Good, good sleep is so superimportant in healing.
So if you are unable to sleep,you need to work on stress
management and get yourself tothe point when you can sleep.
SPEAKER_01 (25:20):
Oh, I think that's powerful.
So 432 hertz music.
I I think my husband listens tothat.
And the delta waves, the singingbowls or the crystal bowls, I I
love that.
I have a tiny little crystalsinging bowl.
And when I use that, the soundand the vibration of it does
just make me feel so calm andhelps me sleep.
(25:44):
It's really wonderful.
What are you seeing that mostpeople come to you with?
And how do how do we avoid theseproblems that you commonly see?
SPEAKER_00 (25:54):
Well, of course, first, of course, you need to
invest in fixing your problem.
And uh, to do this, you need toknow the core, where it's coming
from, what actually happened.
Because in the many scenarios,in the in the many scenarios,
what I see, people come, and thepain could be referred pain.
(26:17):
Very often people come withshoulder pain, but the cause is
in the neck.
So as a practitioner, I wouldpalpate, I would find where the
tension is, when there is askew, what is the body
mechanics, I need to assess itall.
And if you don't sleep, forexample, I need to understand
why you don't sleep, is it notenough melatonin in your body,
(26:39):
or you in stress release toomuch cortisol?
Yes, and then you can regulateagain through light therapy,
it's actually quite usefulbecause uh you can induce
melatonin production bystimulating with red light.
And you in the past it wasbelieved that you need to look
(27:00):
at red light, but now uh we knowthat even by places on the body,
you can improve your melatoninlevel, you can self-regulate
that melatonin.
What I'm trying to say once youfix your problem and you want to
stay well, you need to do aregime.
(27:22):
It contains many things.
Number one, I would say go tobed in the same time and wake up
in the same time.
It's important for yourcircadium rhythm.
When you wake up, don't jumpimmediately.
Oh, I have so much to do.
Yes.
I'll literally do this mentalexercise.
I think what is the mostimportant thing I want to
(27:44):
achieve today.
And uh, whilst in this kind ofsemi-meditative state, I put uh
flex beam on my chest becauseyou know the heart is here, or
on my stomach.
One thing I didn't tell youtoday is that uh when you
stimulate with lights, we havestudies now to say that it
(28:05):
improves gut microbiome, redlight specifically.
So I would normally put over theheart and stomach, and it takes
10 minutes, and then I stretch.
So stretching is very importantbecause you prepare the spine,
stretch, and then you get upwith all the gravity, suddenly
(28:26):
the whole body becomes but ifyou stretched enough, then you
become much more aligned andready for the day.
And uh then when you do thewhole as a routine, make sure
you exercise.
This is like absolutely must foreveryone.
If even if you're super busy,make 10 minutes.
(28:50):
Get up, stretch, get up and dodeep breathing.
But exercise, even smallexercise, even 10 minutes, you
quickly go around the block, youcome back, it's a different
person.
So I know everybody is busynowadays.
I know we have overload withinformation, but if you create
(29:12):
this little routine foryourself, then you would be much
more organized, less stressed.
SPEAKER_01 (29:19):
Actually, you mentioned the gut microbiome and
how red light can affect that.
Before we go to the very lastquestion, so you actually put
the flex beam on your stomachfor 10 minutes.
And is the flex beam all onedose, or can you change the
settings?
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (29:38):
And you can put either like horizontally across
the navel or vertically.
There are three programs, andeach program is designed uh at
what level you want to make inpart.
Like you're talking about at thebeginning about the skin issues.
Yes.
So the program one would addressskin issues, program two is A
(30:00):
little bit deeper, so uh joints,small joints like Achille, uh
the tendon, or something likethis would be good for program
two, and also this uh stomach orliver, you could do it as well
in program two, and programthree produces really deep
penetration stimulation, isright really concentrated, very,
(30:24):
very good with muscles, deepjoints.
So I would use three if I wantto prepare for swimming
competitions or really big somebig events.
I would just do all my keymuscles on three.
I want to really deeply toinduce that blood flow to induce
energy.
SPEAKER_01 (30:45):
So three settings.
What about the face?
Can we use this on the face?
SPEAKER_00 (30:51):
Yes, absolutely.
Everyone who's got flex beamasking me this question, saying,
Well, it's so good for my body,can I use it on the face?
Yes, you can.
Um uh normally we use programone because you want to affect
the collagen and use you want toaffect the state of your uh uh
collagen in the face, yes.
(31:12):
So program one, but don't forgetour device is super, super
potent.
It's like your panel, theenergy, the panel in this.
Imagine it's that pot and it'son the body in the close
contact, yes.
So for the face, we normally doit at about uh reading book
(31:34):
distance, yeah.
But I also want you to covereyes, it comes with a little uh
goggles for this situation.
Uh why?
Because again, light is reallypotent, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:46):
Yeah.
So I do want to explain to thoselistening and not looking
because we are on an audio here.
You were holding that flex beamup about 12 inches from your
face and saying to use goggles.
And I know there's been someresearch on macular
degeneration.
Can you use this for treatingmacular degeneration?
SPEAKER_00 (32:07):
The light should be less potent than ours in flex
beam.
I found it's a British company,they do uh goggles and they have
dedicated strengths of light formacular degeneration.
For flex beam, it's moreon-body, you know, recovery.
And uh I just think it's alittle bit too strong for the
(32:31):
eyes.
SPEAKER_01 (32:32):
Okay, that makes sense.
And that's what most of us arelooking for is muscle recovery.
I know I am.
So is there anything that wehave not talked about that you
wanted to share before we close?
SPEAKER_00 (32:47):
Um, I just want to say, you know, we came to this
new age.
Uh, we we really have to takecontrol of our health.
We have to empower ourselves, wehave to be proactive in our
health.
We shouldn't sit and wait, okay,when arthritis is gonna hit me,
right?
(33:07):
We should do everything we can,preserve this beautiful body so
it can blossom and function.
So even if you're 60, 70, and80, you still climb in the
Everest and live full quality oflife.
So there are some tools you canuse for that.
SPEAKER_01 (33:27):
Yes, and yes, and it's so refreshing to have tools
that aren't pharmaceutical ormedical or that have side
effects.
You really are doing greatthings in the world, Dr.
Frost, and we appreciate youspending this time with us today
and wishing you all the best.
Thank you for being on the show.
SPEAKER_00 (33:48):
Thank you so much, Kelly.
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