November 6, 2025 • 46 mins
What if the thing you’re avoiding is the doorway to your best self? In this fan favorite encore episode: that’s the challenge Brian Bergford accepted when he took a lifelong panic response to water and turned it into masters swimming medals, national podiums, and a practical playbook for courage you can use today.
We sit down with Brian—peak performance coach, certified dog trainer, and author of Transformational Dog Training—to unpack the crucial difference between fear and phobia and the wise way to tackle both. He shares how a simple motive bigger than ego, broken down into clear milestones and daily reps, can move you from avoidance to action. You’ll hear the story arc from sloppy first laps to joining a masters team, entering races, qualifying for nationals, and aiming at a championship. The tools are surprisingly simple: stop tolerating your own excuses, stack micro wins, and get in the pool before your brain talks you out of it.
Brian also introduces “emotional visitors,” a memorable lens for mental hygiene. Don’t entertain guilt, anger, or fear; acknowledge them and leave the door open. When joy or excitement knocks, run to greet them and amplify the signal. That same energy lens explains why dog training often starts with human training. As a behavior specialist, Brian has seen how dogs read the pack’s vibe, not just commands. He shares a powerful case where unresolved family tension drove canine conflict—and how aligning the household’s structure and state calmed both people and pets.
If you’re feeling worn down, consider whether you’re actually under-inspired. This conversation blends sports psychology, canine behavior, and everyday spiritual practice into a grounded guide for taking back your attention and choosing action over anxiety. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs a nudge, and leave a quick review to tell us the one fear you’re ready to face next.
Email us at HELLO@ChampionsMojo.com. Opinions discussed are not medical advice, please seek a medical professional for your own health concerns.
Check out Kelly's Books at www.KellyPalace.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_04 (00:01):
The best thing to do, I think, for people that I
could encourage them is inspireyourself.
Do something, put yourself onthe line, push yourself.
And it's great to be inspired byothers, but when you have an
amazing performance or you pushyourself, even if the
performance wasn't outstanding,but you threw your heart over
the bar and then you gave evenmore and you had like a second
or third win come in, that'sthat's inspiring.
(00:25):
And I think that that's whatpeople really want to strive for
sometimes when they feel like,oh, I just need a little bit of
a break.
It's like, are you eveninspired?
SPEAKER_02 (00:37):
Hello, friends.
This is Kelly Pallas, host ofChampions Mojo, your place for
better health, resilience, andmaster swimming.
I'm taking a short break fromrecording new episodes of
Champions Mojo for two excitingreasons.
First, I'm launching my latestbook, False Cure.
It's a whistleblowinginvestigative journalism book
(00:59):
about a denied health epidemic.
If you'd like more informationon that, it's in the show notes.
The second and most compellingreason I'm on a break is here at
Champions Mojo, we're preparingfor the January 2026 reboot of
powerful new weekly episodeswith expert guest interviews,
(01:21):
inspiring topics, and tips totake your mindset, health, and
personal performance to the nextlevel.
We will be announcing someincredible partnerships with the
show, and I guarantee what wehave in store for you will
empower you and keep your mojostrong in the new year.
While I'm preparing some of thisgreat stuff, we've selected some
(01:45):
of our best shows ever for anEncore series.
My hope is that if this is yoursecond time listening to this
episode, you'll take away evenmore insight and motivation.
Or if it's your first time,you'll love this episode as much
as everyone else did.
So settle in and enjoy thisEncore presentation in its
(02:06):
entirety.
Let's welcome Brian Bergford tothe show.
Welcome, Brian.
SPEAKER_04 (02:12):
Thank you.
Thanks for having me on.
I've listened to your guys' showfor quite a long time and enjoy
it very much.
So an honor to be with you.
SPEAKER_02 (02:20):
Wonderful, wonderful.
Thank you.
Today, I I think this, Maria andBrian, is gonna, I think this
could be one of our mostinteresting shows.
So I hope everybody will tune inbecause we have two topics that
I find fascinating.
One is conquering your fear, andthe other one is dogs.
But it's not the fear of dogs.
This is uh well, Maria's gonnatell you about it.
(02:43):
It could, it could be.
That's true.
That's a great point.
Maria's gonna give you a littlebackground on what the dog part
of this is, but I am so excitedto say Brian Bergford is a
champion.
He is not only a peakperformance coach, but he's a
champions, uh champion masterswimmer.
Despite having a debilitatingphobia of having his face
(03:04):
submerged in the water since hewas in early childhood, Brian
eventually decided that enoughwas enough.
And he tackled this fear head onby taking up swimming at the age
of 30.
Uh, he took swimming lessons,joined a master's program, and
went on to just have anincredible successful career and
still going as a master'sswimmer, qualifying for
(03:26):
nationals, uh, meddling in 13times at the national
championships.
He's a four-time state championand he's got top 10 times for
masters, which is very elite.
We're going to talk to him.
How did he overcome these fears?
And uh, and there's a lot more.
So, Maria, can you share thatwith us?
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Well, so yeah, I'm excited as a dog lover and owner
to talk to Brian about one ofhis other talents.
Um, his love of man's bestfriend, his knack for training
and behavioral rehabilitationled to a real deep uh uh
interest and education about dogbehavior.
Brian's a certified dog trainerwith extensive experience as a
(04:06):
practicing dog behavioralspecialist.
He's a former vice president andmember of the board of directors
for the InternationalAssociation of Canine
Professionals and is owner ofAltitude Dog Training in Uptown
Dog in Lamont, Longmont,Colorado.
His expertise of the interplaybetween dog behavior and human
psychology gave rise to hisfirst book.
And I love, love, love the titleof this book: Transformational
(04:27):
Dog Training.
Bring out the best in your dogby bringing out the best in
yourself.
So wonderful.
We're using dogs for uh forexcellence.
I'm really excited to have youhere.
Thanks for joining us, Brian.
SPEAKER_04 (04:40):
Uh, like I said, I I couldn't be more excited and um
ready to get this party started.
SPEAKER_02 (04:45):
Okay.
So I well, we have to kick offuh with tell us how how bad was
your fear truly of putting yourface in the water?
SPEAKER_04 (04:56):
So there's and especially now having the
background that I do inpsychology, right?
You've you've got fears and thenyou have phobias.
And um fears are a little bitdifferent monster, so to speak.
Uh it was definitely a completejust visal reaction of of panic
(05:18):
when I would have my headsubmerged underwater.
It was just panic-inducing.
There was nothing logical aboutit.
It wasn't something that I couldjust talk myself out of or just
hang in there.
Just a very irrational fear atto the nth degree.
And so I had that for as long asI can remember back in a
childhood, and it was uh it waspretty gnarly.
SPEAKER_02 (05:41):
Can you describe some of like the situations that
you got into, or you know, how astory that might be go with some
of that?
SPEAKER_04 (05:49):
Oh, sure.
Like swim lessons when I was alittle fit.
My parents took me to theplease, I don't want my child to
die, uh, swim lessons.
And I was a wee tyke.
I remember being in those swimlessons.
And while the other kids at theend of the whole thing got to
the point where they wereactually like really swimming, I
(06:10):
got to the point where if theswim instructor had one or both
hands underneath my back and Iwas lying on my back in the
water in the very, very shallowend, I could keep from
completely panicking and cryingand running out of the room.
So that's that's where I got to.
SPEAKER_01 (06:27):
And did you stop along the because it sounds like
from the story that it wasn'tuntil much later that you
actually learned to swim?
SPEAKER_04 (06:34):
Yeah.
So here's the deal.
I I ran a 10K here um inColorado, the Boulder Boulder.
And afterward, I got a littlebit overzealous and over
training, and I busted up myknee.
So I took up swimming verytemporarily because the bike
hurt my knee and I didn't wantto lose all my conditioning.
(06:55):
So I popped in the pool, kind oftaught myself a really sloppy
version of uh freestyle.
And as soon as I could possiblyget out, I did because I
realized like this fear and thisphobia is still here.
But one seed that eventually gotplanted was watching Phelps and
I believe it was the BeijingOlympics, and his incredible
(07:16):
performance there.
I've just, I get um, I do, I getvery reclemt when I watch people
and the the the top of theirgame, the upper echelons, elite
performers doing things whereit's so magnificent that it's
almost like a supernaturalperformance.
You see something shiningthrough that's not natural on
this earth.
(07:36):
And I remember watching that,and it planted a little seed.
So a few years later, I ended upum getting sick and tired of
being basically controlled by afear because that's not the type
of person who I am.
I charge right at my fears, Itackle them, I assault my fears.
But I had this one, and it wasvery inconsistent with who I am.
(07:57):
So I decided, you know what?
If I'm scared of having my facein water, the next logical step
would be to take up swimming forreal.
So I went and got a coach whosename, interestingly, is Bob
Bowman.
SPEAKER_03 (08:12):
No way.
SPEAKER_04 (08:14):
Yeah, crazy.
Not obviously not the sameperson, but he taught me all the
four swim strokes.
And uh at the end of one of ourlessons, he goes, Brian, you're
you're ready for a master'sprogram.
And I was entirely terrifiedwhen he said that to me because
I was still really freaked outabout the water, but I knew if I
(08:34):
waited, I would talk myself outof it, right?
Like a lot of us will do that.
So the next day I went, Iregistered for a master's team,
and kind of it's all historyfrom there, as they say.
SPEAKER_02 (08:45):
But when you so the first thing that got you in the
pool was an injury, and at thatpoint, were you swimming like
kind of with your head out orjust jogging in the water?
Or what what was the what wasthe ability to swim then?
SPEAKER_04 (08:58):
Um, the ability to swim then was I eventually got
it to where I could slowly swimfor, I think it was like a maybe
a half a mile to a mile withoutcompletely panicking, but I
definitely look like an openwater swimmer because I just
needed the oxygen and thefeeling of having my head out of
the water way too far out forproper swimming form just to
(09:21):
keep myself mentally engaged andin check.
SPEAKER_02 (09:25):
And that was that, and that was like at age 30-ish.
SPEAKER_04 (09:29):
No, so that was like a very short time span.
Um, I wouldn't say I really knewhow to swim at that point.
I just did my best.
Um, if at 30 years old is when Iwent and got lessons, when I had
kind of gotten fed up with beingcontrolled by fear.
When I got when I realized I wasreally freaked out about
heights, my solution to that wasto take up rock climbing.
So um kind of did the same thingwith swimming at 30 years old.
SPEAKER_01 (09:54):
So when we first started this conversation, you
differentiated phobia from fear.
Can you talk about that a littlebit more?
SPEAKER_04 (10:03):
Sure.
One of the main differences, Ithink, and I think it's
important for people torecognize this, like systematic
desensitization would be whatpsychologists would do for um
fears, right?
You get like you kind of dipyour toe in a little bit and you
desensitize to very lightversions of whatever the thing
(10:23):
is that freaks you out, whateversituation, whatever type of
animal or insect, et cetera.
And it's it's kind of a verygradual immersion where as um
something, and that's generallyused.
Sometimes flooding is used, andthat's when it's just
full-blown, throw you into thedeep end of the pool, so to
speak.
Um, me having the phobia, Ialways caution people like, be
(10:45):
very careful messing around withphobias.
I had enough of a background inpsychology myself and working
and helping other people that Iwas able to navigate that, but
it can be, frankly, kind ofpsychologically dangerous.
I think the biggest thing withthe fear is um I really wanted
to feed fear a sucket sandwich.
(11:07):
I was so sick and tired of it.
I'm like, I'm like, nope, thisis not gonna get get me.
And I would take any excuse tojust move forward a little bit.
So when uh Bob had said to me,You're ready to join a master's
program, awesome, I'll do that.
And then I got it in my head uhabout you know a month later,
this crazy idea.
I snuck into a high schoolcompetition at the local aquatic
(11:29):
center.
I was watching these kidscompete, and I was like, maybe I
could compete here someday.
And then I ended up doing that.
And all the while I'm workingthrough my fear, but really
reaching for these things thatinspired me and eventually
getting to what if I qualifiedfor Nationals Day one day?
Maybe, man, doing something likethat might inspire somebody else
who really has a challenge witha with an ongoing fear that's
(11:51):
been controlling them to acertain extent.
If they see me do something likethat, maybe that would give them
hope and impetus to moveforward.
SPEAKER_01 (11:59):
So you you again cautioned us like maybe phobia
is you wouldn't handle a phobiathe same way.
How do we know?
I would say it almost soundslike you're letting some kinds
of fears off the hook.
SPEAKER_04 (12:10):
Um, yeah, just like phobias are they're they're
trickier to deal with becauseit's such an elevated response
in the psyche of the humanbeing.
Fears are easier to work throughbecause you can kind of go into
them and you can sort of breatheyourself out of them.
But it would be some, you know,um, like uh, and and I am not
(12:32):
putting myself in this categoryat all, but just to use an
example, somebody who's aveteran who would have maybe
like a flashback or PTSD orsomething like that, like that's
not a fear issue.
That's a straight up, you reallyneed to get some directed help
for that because it's such aserious thing.
Um, but I think the steps toovercoming them can be the same,
(12:52):
but I really think by and large,with a phobia, you almost always
need outside help.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
Well, you can use outside help for anything and
for fears too.
SPEAKER_04 (13:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (13:03):
So, what are what are the steps for overcoming a
fear?
SPEAKER_04 (13:06):
Oh my gosh.
Um I can I can speak about itsince we're talking about this
particular story from my case.
Um, one is a lack of tolerancefor your own BS and standards
that you normally hold foryourself, but you're letting
yourself off the hook and you'renot admitting it to yourself.
(13:29):
At some point, you kind of haveto get a little bit fed up, not
mad at yourself, not beatingyourself up, just saying this is
BS and this is not in line withwho I am as an individual.
This is not part of my identity,and I'm playing small.
That's a big piece of it, Ithink.
Uh, another element to that isyou have to have some type of a
(13:50):
compelling, overarching desireand drive.
And then you need a lot oflittle intermediate ones.
So, to be honest with you, mybiggest driving force, I would
differentiate betweenmotivations and motives.
Um, my motive underneath it allwas really to do something
someday, possibly, that mightinspire other people and um kind
(14:12):
of point an arrow to the big manupstairs because it would be
something too big for me topossibly take credit for as a
human being, right?
That was the underlying motive,but that's a very big
overarching theme.
And so I then had to break thatdown into these really huge um
compelling goals to me.
And those are kind of one stepat a time because initially it
(14:34):
was just joining a master'sprogram, but then the very big
thing became doing some kind ofa competition, like, oh my gosh,
I'm not just practicing, I wouldactually be competing in a place
where other people are around topossibly watch me drown.
Um and then eventually it becamequalifying for nationals, you
know, and and now my big sort ofmoonshot thing is I want to wish
(14:55):
win a national championship dayum in master swimming.
I figure I've got till I'm about105 years old, so I'm good to
go.
But then day to day, justfinding any little motivator,
um, touching the wall first on aset and getting the acceleration
of that, and then maybe I canpush it again.
So um these big macros, breakingthem down into the micro pieces,
(15:18):
and probably another thing aboutovercoming fear, and I really
think if you know who you are,and you're you're not you're not
willing to let your your fearsbecome bigger than your faith in
in yourself and who you werecreated to be.
I really think that's what a lotof it boils down to, which means
(15:41):
you have to remind yourself ofthat every day, which means just
like in athletics, we've got totrain every single day.
It goes the same way for mentaltraining.
Every time you let a fear stopyou or hold you back from doing
something, it starts to developmomentum.
And so I got in a really goodhabit of every time I got to the
pool, like, don't overthink it,just get in, just get in, just
(16:04):
get in.
SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
That is that's all gold.
It really is.
Uh, we're we're hopefully gonnanail those down in the show
notes because I, you know, assomebody who I, you know, I
don't know if I have fears orphobias or both.
I'm sure we all have both.
Um, but your story inspires me,Brian.
I mean, I remember seeing you onthe cover of Swimmer magazine uh
(16:28):
and your story, and thatinspired me.
And, you know, just anybody whohas fears, if you take these,
you know, things to heart, youyou did this firsthand.
So that is really, reallyinspirational.
Every single one of thosepoints, which I can't wait,
Maria.
You and I love these and thetakeaways.
So um wonderful, wonderful.
We want to, I guess, move on tothis.
(16:49):
Now that we we know how toconquer our fears and phobias,
Don, can can you can you tiethis into uh your your dog
training and the this incrediblycreative and interesting and
alluring title of your book?
That um transformational dogtraining, bring out the best in
(17:11):
your dog by bringing out thebest in yourself.
We we've got to hear about this.
SPEAKER_04 (17:15):
Well, you sure can, but just to keep some suspense,
I'm gonna I'm gonna throwsomething out there on the tail
end of that that that might tieinto the overcoming fear.
This is just some things thathad kind of come to me as I was
thinking about coming in here.
And and one of the issues withpeople's psychology is like what
kind of emotional visitors doyou throw a tick or tape parade
(17:36):
for and invite into yourpsychological home?
SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
Oh, wait, wait, you gotta say that again.
SPEAKER_04 (17:42):
What kind of emotional visitors do you throw
a ticker tape parade for andinvite into your home mentally?
SPEAKER_01 (17:50):
What's an emotional visitor?
SPEAKER_04 (17:52):
An emotional visitor visitor could be something, and
I think you that you would wantto refuse these.
Um entertaining, refuse toentertain depression, guilt,
sadness, anger, and fear.
Um, I think you want to allowthem to be there, but then you
want to leave the door wide openfor them so they can leave when
they're ready.
(18:13):
But if you have something likean emotional visitor of joy,
love, uh, excitement, peace,elation, any type of positive
anticipation drops by for even asecond.
Run outside, throw your armsaround that visitor, invite them
inside and entertain the hellout of them, right?
Like, like don't think toyourself, why are they even
(18:34):
here?
They'll probably leave soon.
Because that's what you shouldbe saying about those negative
emotions.
So I think a lot of it isattending to what emotions do
you entertain?
And this is not talking aboutdenying if something is there.
It's just like don't go over andsit there and talk to sadness
and depression on the couch.
If you have a little glimmer ofjoy outside, wrap your arms
(18:55):
around that and magnify itbecause that is going to have a
huge impact on how you performand how well you're able to
overcome fears.
Now, tying it back into yourother question.
Um, I just remember when youwere asking me that one of the
kind of fears I had fromchildhood that were sort of
instilled by me or instilled inmy life was a fear of dogs,
(19:19):
honestly.
And just, you know, all thesestories and like news stories of
dogs biting and mauling childrenand certain people in my family
constantly told me about them.
Just like, uh one of the thingsthat I have discovered is
oftentimes your your absolutegreatest gifts and joys in life
lie on the other side of yourgreatest fears.
(19:39):
For me, having my head submergedin water, dogs, right?
And there's other examples Icould use, but I was freaked out
by dogs in the beginning.
But when I graduated from yeah,yeah, when I graduated from
college, I realized I had a giftfor working, um, not just with
humans on performance, but likeactual dog training and behavior
(20:02):
rehabilitation.
Um, I built a couple businessesup in that space.
And I wrote a book, uh, the oneyou mentioned, bring out the,
well, it's transformational dogtraining, but bring out the best
in your dog by bringing out thebest in yourself, because I
recognize through my work withpeople and their companion
animals, they're coming to mewith this problem, whatever the
(20:23):
problem is, the presentingissue.
And then uh I have to kind ofsift down through the layers and
recognize this person is askingme to fix their dog.
It's constantly this barrage ofcomplaints about the dog and
what's going on.
I'm like, okay, okay, and theydo this and they do that, and
then they want somebody to fixthe dog.
(20:45):
I'm like, dogs, they're a packanimal.
They see a system, they do notsee individual components, they
function within an environment.
And so if the environment of themind and the energy of the
people and the family members isnot where it needs to be, that's
going to have a downstreamimpact on the dog's behavior
because they are responding tothat energy and to the psyche.
(21:08):
And so I wrote the book to helppeople not only understand that
and understand dog trainingprinciples, but line up right
next to it principles of humanpsychology, self-development,
all kinds of stuff, even some alittle bit on the spiritual side
too, so that they couldunderstand how to support their
(21:30):
companion animals the best bymaking positive changes within
themselves.
SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
That's such a great take.
I mean, you of course I've heardthat before about dogs, you
know, dogs responding to theowners.
You're really training theowners.
And but I I love the take thathey, you can grow, and as you
grow, your dogs will startbehaving better.
That's beautiful.
Do you have some good storiesaround that?
SPEAKER_04 (21:55):
Oh gosh.
Um yeah, sure.
So here's one that comes tomind.
I went to I got called in and Ialways talk to people on the
phone first when I was gonna goover and do training for them.
So I had this conversation withthis gal and kind of had a sense
I knew the two dogs werefighting in the home.
Um, and they had a like it wasit came out of the blue.
(22:20):
And so I got there and I'mthinking this situation's really
weird.
Um, but I get into the home andI start talking, and all of a
sudden, I can, you know, I couldabsolutely sense the tension
between the mother and thedaughter.
It was palpable energetically inthe home.
Like, like, even if you don'tpay attention to that kind of
stuff, you would notice it waspretty obvious.
(22:41):
And they weren't saying anythingin the beginning, but I was
like, what's going on with youguys?
Because it was relevant becauseI recognized the two female dogs
had started having knockdowndrag out fights in the home once
the daughter came back into thehome, and the mom and the
daughter had not resolved theirprevious issues.
So their dogs were actuallyhaving and bearing the brunt of
(23:05):
this emotional negativity andthis just not great situation
between the individuals.
And so helping them see theconnection and then um get them
on board about like what's moreimportant, like your opinion and
being right, or like you havingto re-home one of your dogs or
(23:27):
put one of them down becausethey so severely injure the
other one.
Like, can we can we just get onboard for a cause that's bigger
than the bickering, please?
And I and I said it with peopleskills.
So I didn't say it quite likethat, but that's that's kind of
the gist of where we went withit.
SPEAKER_02 (23:43):
That's amazing.
That is that is truly amazing.
So uh let me throw out a dogsituation and see if it has
anything to do with uh me as theowner or how you would how we
how you would fix this.
So the dog of my life was a dognamed Margot.
She was half yellow lab, halfgolden retriever.
She was a fellow swimmer.
(24:04):
Like if there was wateranywhere, she would charge it
and just jump in.
Could be a pool, could be apond, could be a lake.
Uh when we'd walk the beach, sheshe surfed.
She just she was just an amazingdog.
The only downfall of Margot wasthat she would surgically remove
zippers from any anything in thehouse.
(24:27):
Like if you left your jeans onthe floor, it looked like she
literally took a seam ripper andlike the jeans would be perfect.
The zipper was gone.
The zipper on her dog bed, thezipper on like on a hoodie.
Um, if if she could get her whatis the Brian, I have so many
(24:48):
things swirling in my head rightnow.
SPEAKER_04 (24:52):
Okay, so there's not many things I haven't heard yet,
but congratulations, Kelly.
Um, that's one of them.
So Wowzers.
Um trousers, wowers, trousers,wowers, trousers.
That's crazy.
Also, I I don't know.
Maybe it's her own issue.
(25:14):
Um and it could be because dogswill have just weird quote
unquote pet issues that they'llpick up, little habits,
idiosyncrasies, um, just youknow, quirky little things that
they do.
And sometimes, in all fairness,it has nothing to do with their
humans at all.
Um, I think generally, if youhave a well-balanced, stable dog
(25:34):
that has really great quality oflife, and you know, they're in a
they're in a really good spaceand they're gonna have their
quirks, and those are the littlethings that we just love about
them.
Just like hopefully we lovethose same things about other
people.
Um, or we'll have to be carefulhere because I'm on your show.
SPEAKER_01 (25:52):
I don't know, trust me, she can take it perfectly.
SPEAKER_02 (25:55):
I can take it.
Oh, I have oh wait, I havetrouble with closure.
SPEAKER_04 (26:00):
There you go.
I was I was gonna say, you know,like honestly, I don't even know
what that would be about.
Like maybe um, maybe becauseyou're a swimmer and your dog
just really wanted to supportyou in that, and there's no
zippers on tech suits.
SPEAKER_02 (26:16):
Uh right, right.
They're not allowed.
There used to be.
There you go.
I love it.
I love that sense of humor.
Brian, do you do you I want youto throw out a dog story for
Brian?
You've had so many great dogs.
SPEAKER_01 (26:27):
Great dogs, and I'm I uh I had the first dog I had
was a German Shepherd, and itwas a very aggressive German
Shepherd.
And I also had lots of littlechildren, and so um had to get
hold of that pretty quickly.
And so uh I hired a dog trainerfor what at the time seemed like
an enormous amount of money.
(26:47):
Um, but it was the best thing Iever did.
She was because then I was ableto train all the dogs after
that.
But um, I'm I guess our our dogthat we have right now is a
sweet golden doodle.
Um and he really just has no Iguess he likes to eat squirrel
poop.
(27:08):
Oh my gosh.
The dogs like to eat poop,they're very interested in it.
SPEAKER_04 (27:14):
Oh my lord.
How old is your doodle?
Uh he's 12.
He's 12?
Oh yeah, wow.
Yeah, that that's that's yummy.
Um that's what I think.
It's very that's very specificbecause I know a lot of dogs are
like rabbit poop is really theirthing or whatever, like goose
poop is a big one, cats, catfish, all that kind of stuff.
But but squirrel poop, you guysare throwing some stuff at me
(27:38):
today.
I'm getting a big thing.
SPEAKER_01 (27:39):
Yeah, but you gotta diagnose Korea now.
No, wait, you know what else?
This is this is gonna be bettermaterial for you.
Okay.
He loves that blue stuff thatdiapers have.
Like, so when you have when adiaper, you know, they they
create diapers with this gelthat when they're wet, you know,
(28:00):
when the kid peas are, you know,it it it gets it gets um like
absorbed.
Absorbed, but and he's notinterested in dry diaper.
But once the diaper is eitherwet or poopy, and especially if
we leave him alone, like put itin the house, he devours
disgusting diapers.
(28:23):
That is so weird.
SPEAKER_02 (28:24):
Okay, that is the that is the last time that Binx
is gonna lick me.
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (28:30):
We just don't we just don't allow diapers around
the house.
A lot of grandkids.
SPEAKER_04 (28:34):
Yeah, there is it's funny that you mentioned that.
There's certain things aboutdogs that um I just really try
at a certain point.
Like, I'm not gonna think intothat too much.
Like it's such a weird thing.
Um, but I I will I will say thisthat just like we we see, and
(28:55):
this is part of the issuesometimes we have with dogs, is
um, or the dogs have with us, iswe see the world through such a
different lens.
Our our brains are built so muchdifferently.
The different regions that arededicated to different sense
organs and scents for dogs, theolfactory, is huge compared just
in volume alone to to the humanbrain.
(29:15):
And it's also just a good thingto think about where we're all
built differently, even asindividual people.
And um just a I thinkappreciating the differences
sometimes without needing tonecessarily understand what it's
all about can really help reducea lot of the anxiety and a lot
(29:36):
of the um, you know, just thefrustration that can happen in
relationships because we have tounderstand everything or we need
things to be a certain way.
And it's like, you know, likeyou're making yourself crazy,
right?
It's comes a certain point whereI will have some client, and you
didn't do this, but I'll haveyou know some clients that would
(29:56):
drill down like, but why is thatand why is that and why is that?
I'm like, does it matter?
Like, let's just help supportthem to feel better and to have
a better life.
It we don't need to get lost inthe dark hole of but why, but
why, but why, but why.
Um, we just need to help themmove forward.
And that's a beautiful thingabout dogs, is they don't hold
(30:16):
on to the past and fall in lovewith their dysfunctional stories
like people tend to, and wedon't have to deal with the ego
play.
So dogs are a beautiful exampleof being able to just move
forward.
And I think that if we can takethat to heart and use them as a
daily reminder, it's an amazingthing because people can get
caught up in again, theirstories, the layers of
(30:38):
complexity, the ego, themsubconsciously holding on to
problems because it serves themin some way.
And they go, No, I don't.
Like, I would never want, youknow, to live like this.
It's like, but you still are.
And to be courageous enough, ifif it's us and we really want to
fix something, to examine that.
But when we're looking at otherpeople to just appreciate the
(31:00):
differences, and love is the oneuniversal thing that can
absolutely heal and help andconnect.
And if we can just keep that inmind and like, let's fix
ourselves instead of gettingobsessed with what's out in the
world, that's probably more areflection of what's going on
within ourselves and we seeeverything that we don't like.
So let's work on that and let'sjust exude love and optimism and
(31:25):
positivity and grace and joy andall the things, those emotional
visitors that are conducive to apsychological environment that
makes for good performance inrelationships.
SPEAKER_01 (31:36):
I I'm so glad you got back to that because I did
want I love, love, love theconcept of these things as being
visitors.
Because of course we do vis getget joy at we get visited by
joy, but we also get visited bygrief and sadness.
And the idea that you don'tnecessarily want to make it too
comfortable, but you know, youacknowledge that they're there.
That's a beautiful thing.
(31:57):
But I one of the things thatKelly and I have talked a lot
about lately is uh with the newscycle as it is, and and that it
seems like they're pipingdepression, guilt, anger into
our brains, they I mean that weare we are getting this
tremendous negative visitors,you know, as you say.
(32:19):
Now, what what would you have tosay about that?
SPEAKER_04 (32:22):
I would say the best thing if you're honestly asking
me to approach that is to mereally focusing on the spiritual
side of life, not this nottalking about religion, just
spiritually being in alignmentwith who you truly are and like
the larger, whatever you want tocall it, source, God, the
(32:44):
universe, however people howeverpeople understand it.
Because when when you trulyelevate your consciousness and
spirituality is very much likemost anything else, it's
something that you research, youread about, you discipline
yourself, you have certainpractices and rituals you do.
Very few people just get struckwith the lightning bolt of like
spontaneous enlightenment.
(33:05):
So the rest of us, we we haveto, in some sense, apply
ourselves to grow and developand evolve spiritually over
time.
And as we do that and ourconsciousness comes up, um, it
naturally helps us have acompletely different perspective
when we watch things like thenews.
Like, for instance, if I'm notin a great place, I and I love
(33:28):
and honestly, like I reallyenjoy, which is weird, politics
for some reason.
I just think it's like afascinating truth is stranger
than fiction kind of a thing.
So it's like massivelyentertaining to me in a lot of
ways.
But if I'm not in a good spot, Ican't watch it for very long
because I will get pulled downinto something.
(33:49):
But if I'm looking at it fromthe right perspective and I've
got my spirit in alignment andmy psychology, and they're all
there, I absolutely have acompletely different experience
of it because I'm seeing it fromsuch a different facet that all
of a sudden um I can see the theactual the beauty in humanity
(34:12):
and the little glimmers thatcome up, and I can see the humor
in some of it and recognize, youknow, like, oh my gosh, that's
such a stupid thing, but ohyeah, like I'm a total hypocrite
because I did that yesterday,right?
And I'm getting on them aboutit, but that's something for me.
And so I think the perspectiveis the biggest thing.
(34:33):
It's it's like they say, youknow, as a as a speaker, it's
it's not it's not the message,it's not your performance, it's
the quality of the audience.
And and I want to make myself aquality audience when I'm
looking out at the world,especially today, because it's
not sunshine and rainbows thatthey're throwing at us.
SPEAKER_02 (34:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, Brian, this has been justamazing learning fears and
phobias and how to overcomethose, and also great stuff on
on dogs, which I know we'regonna have a ton of people love
that stuff.
So um, is there anything that wehave asked you that we have not
asked you that you would like toshare with our listeners?
SPEAKER_04 (35:12):
Uh well, yeah, I'll share this with you because when
I first when we first had talkedabout setting up this interview,
this this came to me.
I was like, you know what, I'mgonna, I'm gonna write that
down.
Um, this I don't know who thismight be for, but I wrote down
sometimes when we think we'reworn down and we're really tired
(35:33):
and we need a break, what wereally need is to be inspired.
Sometimes we think, gosh, I'mjust so tired and this and that.
It's like there's no, there'sno, there's no spark sometimes.
Sometimes you do need to take abreak.
I'm not talking about gettinginto burnout, but the best thing
to do, I think, for people thatI could encourage them is
inspire yourself.
(35:53):
Do something, put yourself onthe line, push yourself.
And it's great to be inspired byothers, but when you have an
amazing performance or you pushyourself, even if the
performance wasn't outstanding,but you threw your heart over
the bar and then you gave evenmore and you had like a second
or third win come in.
That's that's inspiring.
And I think that that's whatpeople really want to strive for
(36:15):
sometimes when they feel like,oh, I just need a little bit of
a break.
It's like, are you eveninspired?
Let's ask ourselves that firstbefore we take a three-month
layoff.
So um that's my uh that's my uhthought.
SPEAKER_01 (36:28):
That's that's really wonderful.
That's what a great way tointerview.
Thank you, Brian.
SPEAKER_02 (36:33):
Yes, and well, we we are still gonna move on to the
the speed round, the sprinterround, because you are a
champion swimmer and we have toask you.
Um, and hopefully that I don'thave it in the we'll get some
more little wisdom.
Okay, so um here we go.
(36:56):
Are you ready to have some funhere with a few little fun
questions?
SPEAKER_04 (37:00):
Okay, God willing.
My my heart's beating faster.
SPEAKER_03 (37:04):
Okay, give me a moment.
SPEAKER_04 (37:07):
I I am you know it's it's it's not performance
anxiety, it's performancearousal.
Um that's how I think of it.
Let's do this.
SPEAKER_02 (37:17):
I love it.
Go by the I think I think you'regonna nail it.
Cat or dog?
Uh dog.
Gee, that one was kind ofobvious.
Red or blue?
Uh blue.
This is not political.
Okay.
Milk chocolate or darkchocolate?
Uh milk.
SPEAKER_04 (37:35):
Milk, yeah.
Kickboard or no kickboard?
For sure.
Kickboard if I'm recovering, nokickboard if I want to do
underwaters.
Mountains or beach?
Beach, actually.
Beach.
SPEAKER_02 (37:50):
Football or baseball?
SPEAKER_04 (37:53):
Oh baseball.
Um, I don't know.
I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna go withbaseball because I played it a
lot when I was younger.
SPEAKER_02 (38:03):
iPhone or Android?
Android.
Coffee or tea?
Tea.
Morning person or night owl.
SPEAKER_04 (38:12):
I've conditioned myself to be a morning person.
So I'm a swimmer and I have nochoice.
But naturally, yes, isn't thatthe truth?
That's all right.
Naturally a night person, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:22):
I just want to point out, Kelly, that he's okay.
Maria's got some he's our veryfirst guest in 120 shows to say
Android over iPhone.
So we're I'm a record breaker,apparently.
SPEAKER_02 (38:35):
I love it.
Also, I I think he might be thefirst to say baseball as well.
That's true.
I'm a baseball girl.
I'm a baseball girl myself, soand we're Android.
So yeah, Maria's got some foryou.
Uh, these are super shortanswers.
Favorite color?
SPEAKER_01 (38:52):
Blue, favorite pizza topping, jalapenos, favorite
vegetable.
SPEAKER_04 (39:01):
Oh, cream corn.
SPEAKER_01 (39:05):
That's a good one, and also a first.
Uh favorite swim complex thatyou've swum in.
SPEAKER_04 (39:11):
Uh I actually liked uh I actually like Minnesota.
University of Minnesota.
SPEAKER_02 (39:19):
Uh that's another commonality.
I love Minnesota.
SPEAKER_04 (39:22):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (39:23):
See?
SPEAKER_01 (39:24):
Yeah.
Um, what's your favorite musicgenre?
SPEAKER_04 (39:29):
Oh I'm gonna say that's like totally dependent on
my anything from rap and RB toclassical music.
Okay.
Shoe size.
Eleven.
Do you have siblings?
SPEAKER_01 (39:43):
Yes, I have an older brother.
Favorite Star Wars character.
SPEAKER_04 (39:50):
I don't follow Star Wars, so I'm gonna say Luke
Skywalker because I mean hisname.
SPEAKER_01 (39:58):
It's a good one.
Luke's a good one.
Can you cook?
SPEAKER_04 (40:02):
I can heat things up on the stove occasionally.
SPEAKER_01 (40:07):
What word comes to mind when you dive in the water?
SPEAKER_04 (40:11):
I love this.
SPEAKER_02 (40:13):
Nice, nice.
Oh, gosh, that's beautiful.
Well, Brian, this has beenwonderful.
We uh we know you have manytalents.
Well, yeah, one of which is isyour uh peak performance
coaching.
And if anyone likes would likemore information on Brian and
that, it is atbergdorfperformance.com and
(40:34):
we'll have it in the show notes.
Bergford, sorry, saying itwrong.
Sorry.
Bergfordperformance.com andwe'll put it in the show notes
as well.
So wonderful having you with ustoday.
Thank you so much, Brian.
We wish you all the best.
Thanks, Brian.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (40:49):
I appreciate being with you guys.
I hope you have a lovely rest ofyour day.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (40:53):
You too.
Well, Maria, what a fabuloussurprise that was.
I mean, you know, we've we'vehad Olympians, Olympic
champions, Olympic coaches, uh,celebrities, all kinds of
amazing people.
And Brian Bergford was justamazing.
Yeah, lots of wisdom.
And besides, you know, his cool,cool story of having a fear of
(41:16):
the water and then taking upswimming at age 30, taking
swimming lessons, um, and thengoing on to start swimming at 30
and becoming kind of thismaster's elite swimmer on his
way to being a national championat some point here soon, I feel.
Um, he's just he's reallyovercome his fears.
And he talked to us aboutphobias and fears and how to do
(41:39):
that.
That's, you know, a reallyexciting thing in there.
But um, we also talked aboutdogs and his dog training
certification, which had someamazingly interesting talks.
So there's a lot of some greatstories.
Tune in, but um, what of allthat, Maria, what was your first
takeaway?
SPEAKER_01 (41:55):
Well, he, as you said, he had so many great
pieces of wisdom that I couldone of the one of the
expressions he uses, and wetalked about fears, is that he
he likes to assault his fears,love that idea.
Yes, but that's not my takeaway.
My takeaway that it the if I hadto say one was that he talked
about how uh he talked aboutemotional guests.
(42:17):
And what he means aboutemotional guests are emotions
that you that you have.
You can have depression, guilt,anger, sadness, fear, joy, hope,
you know, there's there's kindof the dark ones and then
there's there's the light ones.
And his his point was you'regonna experience all the whole
range of emotional guests, butyou don't have to make the bad
ones comfortable.
You know, in other words, yousaid, you know, if you're if
(42:38):
you're thinking about these asguests in your home, you don't
have to just sit down and chatwith the president, give it a
beer, or or you know, or or makeuh guilt a nice pillow to lay
on.
Yeah.
Instead, he said, when you, youknow, up outside your door, you
see hope and joy and umgladness, you run out the door
and you embrace them and you fixthem a five-course meal.
(43:00):
So I just love this concept ofyes, we have we're going to
experience the whole range ofemotions and emotional guests,
but we can really spend our timeand dwell in and think about and
entertain the positive ones.
I thought that was a beautifulconcept.
SPEAKER_02 (43:15):
Yeah, that that was a beautiful concept.
SPEAKER_01 (43:18):
Okay, Kelly.
SPEAKER_02 (43:19):
Well, this one that this just really resonated with
me because I have fears andphobias.
And I loved his, let's see, hisphrase was uh Zach, exactly just
have a lack of tolerance foryour own BS.
And that goes with what you saidabout, you know, kind of kicking
in the door and saying, you knowwhat, I'm tired of it.
(43:40):
And and I think there is aposture that one takes that I
take.
Maybe I'll just speak for myselfand anybody else who has it.
So once you start owning yourfears or your phobias or both,
then you kind of it kind of putsyou in this position of uh
subservience and and sadness andand vulnerability and really
(44:04):
weakness.
So we're putting ourselves inthat position when we embrace
our fears.
We are weak.
We cannot kick the door in.
But if you just kind of rise upand say, you know what, I am so
tired of always being thatperson who can't do this because
of this fear.
You know what?
I'm tired of that BS.
(44:24):
And like you said, you don'tbeat yourself up, but you just
say, I'm tired of it.
I'm kicking the door in.
And then to give your strengthis embrace what your greatest
being is.
Where are you at your greatestlevel?
What is your highest, what isyour highest purpose?
What can you do with yourselfthat's not be not owning this
(44:44):
personality of fear?
We love working with personas.
So you kind of become thatperson that doesn't have that
fear.
So I that one just truly hit mein my heart.
I didn't need to make any noteson that.
I just was like, that's thetakeaway that I'm getting out of
this show is is just don'ttolerate your own BS.
SPEAKER_01 (45:04):
I I love that.
And I've seen you do that,Kelly.
I've seen you just say, no, I'mnot gonna let this stop me.
And yeah, it's it's it'swonderful, wonderful.
SPEAKER_02 (45:13):
I think I think I love the differentiation between
fears and phobias because I cando that with my fears.
I can say, you know what, that'sBS.
I'm gonna do this, and I canjump in and do it.
But then I have phobias, whichare things like, you know,
really ingrained that youprobably need some long-term
stuff.
And and, you know, he gave theexample of uh the the war vets
(45:33):
who have PTSD.
You don't want to start, youknow, saying setting off fire
crackers and you know, and andand I know, you know, I have the
long-term multiplehospitalizations when I was a
little kid and lots of bad umbullying and teasing of
hospitals and things that Iexperience.
So I have a long, so I think Ihave a phobia of hospitals.
(45:55):
Um, and I don't know that goinginto a hospital is gonna really
like break that.
Maybe I can find something else.
It's not a fear of hospitals,it's a phobia of hospitals.
So that was a little bit of adifferentiation.
SPEAKER_01 (46:06):
So that was nice too, because it allows you, if
you have a real phobia, to say,okay, this is something that I'm
gonna need a little additionalhelp.
SPEAKER_00 (46:16):
We appreciate you listening to Champions Mojo.
If you follow us on Apple,you'll never miss an episode.
If you want Kelly's takeawaysfrom this episode, check out her
blog at championsmojo.com.
Thank you.
The best thing to do, I think, for people that I
could encourage them is inspireyourself.
Do something, put yourself onthe line, push yourself.
And it's great to be inspired byothers, but when you have an
amazing performance or you pushyourself, even if the
performance wasn't outstanding,but you threw your heart over
the bar and then you gave evenmore and you had like a second
or third win come in, that'sthat's inspiring.
(00:25):
And I think that that's whatpeople really want to strive for
sometimes when they feel like,oh, I just need a little bit of
a break.
It's like, are you eveninspired?
SPEAKER_02 (00:37):
Hello, friends.
This is Kelly Pallas, host ofChampions Mojo, your place for
better health, resilience, andmaster swimming.
I'm taking a short break fromrecording new episodes of
Champions Mojo for two excitingreasons.
First, I'm launching my latestbook, False Cure.
It's a whistleblowinginvestigative journalism book
(00:59):
about a denied health epidemic.
If you'd like more informationon that, it's in the show notes.
The second and most compellingreason I'm on a break is here at
Champions Mojo, we're preparingfor the January 2026 reboot of
powerful new weekly episodeswith expert guest interviews,
(01:21):
inspiring topics, and tips totake your mindset, health, and
personal performance to the nextlevel.
We will be announcing someincredible partnerships with the
show, and I guarantee what wehave in store for you will
empower you and keep your mojostrong in the new year.
While I'm preparing some of thisgreat stuff, we've selected some
(01:45):
of our best shows ever for anEncore series.
My hope is that if this is yoursecond time listening to this
episode, you'll take away evenmore insight and motivation.
Or if it's your first time,you'll love this episode as much
as everyone else did.
So settle in and enjoy thisEncore presentation in its
(02:06):
entirety.
Let's welcome Brian Bergford tothe show.
Welcome, Brian.
SPEAKER_04 (02:12):
Thank you.
Thanks for having me on.
I've listened to your guys' showfor quite a long time and enjoy
it very much.
So an honor to be with you.
SPEAKER_02 (02:20):
Wonderful, wonderful.
Thank you.
Today, I I think this, Maria andBrian, is gonna, I think this
could be one of our mostinteresting shows.
So I hope everybody will tune inbecause we have two topics that
I find fascinating.
One is conquering your fear, andthe other one is dogs.
But it's not the fear of dogs.
This is uh well, Maria's gonnatell you about it.
(02:43):
It could, it could be.
That's true.
That's a great point.
Maria's gonna give you a littlebackground on what the dog part
of this is, but I am so excitedto say Brian Bergford is a
champion.
He is not only a peakperformance coach, but he's a
champions, uh champion masterswimmer.
Despite having a debilitatingphobia of having his face
(03:04):
submerged in the water since hewas in early childhood, Brian
eventually decided that enoughwas enough.
And he tackled this fear head onby taking up swimming at the age
of 30.
Uh, he took swimming lessons,joined a master's program, and
went on to just have anincredible successful career and
still going as a master'sswimmer, qualifying for
(03:26):
nationals, uh, meddling in 13times at the national
championships.
He's a four-time state championand he's got top 10 times for
masters, which is very elite.
We're going to talk to him.
How did he overcome these fears?
And uh, and there's a lot more.
So, Maria, can you share thatwith us?
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Well, so yeah, I'm excited as a dog lover and owner
to talk to Brian about one ofhis other talents.
Um, his love of man's bestfriend, his knack for training
and behavioral rehabilitationled to a real deep uh uh
interest and education about dogbehavior.
Brian's a certified dog trainerwith extensive experience as a
(04:06):
practicing dog behavioralspecialist.
He's a former vice president andmember of the board of directors
for the InternationalAssociation of Canine
Professionals and is owner ofAltitude Dog Training in Uptown
Dog in Lamont, Longmont,Colorado.
His expertise of the interplaybetween dog behavior and human
psychology gave rise to hisfirst book.
And I love, love, love the titleof this book: Transformational
(04:27):
Dog Training.
Bring out the best in your dogby bringing out the best in
yourself.
So wonderful.
We're using dogs for uh forexcellence.
I'm really excited to have youhere.
Thanks for joining us, Brian.
SPEAKER_04 (04:40):
Uh, like I said, I I couldn't be more excited and um
ready to get this party started.
SPEAKER_02 (04:45):
Okay.
So I well, we have to kick offuh with tell us how how bad was
your fear truly of putting yourface in the water?
SPEAKER_04 (04:56):
So there's and especially now having the
background that I do inpsychology, right?
You've you've got fears and thenyou have phobias.
And um fears are a little bitdifferent monster, so to speak.
Uh it was definitely a completejust visal reaction of of panic
(05:18):
when I would have my headsubmerged underwater.
It was just panic-inducing.
There was nothing logical aboutit.
It wasn't something that I couldjust talk myself out of or just
hang in there.
Just a very irrational fear atto the nth degree.
And so I had that for as long asI can remember back in a
childhood, and it was uh it waspretty gnarly.
SPEAKER_02 (05:41):
Can you describe some of like the situations that
you got into, or you know, how astory that might be go with some
of that?
SPEAKER_04 (05:49):
Oh, sure.
Like swim lessons when I was alittle fit.
My parents took me to theplease, I don't want my child to
die, uh, swim lessons.
And I was a wee tyke.
I remember being in those swimlessons.
And while the other kids at theend of the whole thing got to
the point where they wereactually like really swimming, I
(06:10):
got to the point where if theswim instructor had one or both
hands underneath my back and Iwas lying on my back in the
water in the very, very shallowend, I could keep from
completely panicking and cryingand running out of the room.
So that's that's where I got to.
SPEAKER_01 (06:27):
And did you stop along the because it sounds like
from the story that it wasn'tuntil much later that you
actually learned to swim?
SPEAKER_04 (06:34):
Yeah.
So here's the deal.
I I ran a 10K here um inColorado, the Boulder Boulder.
And afterward, I got a littlebit overzealous and over
training, and I busted up myknee.
So I took up swimming verytemporarily because the bike
hurt my knee and I didn't wantto lose all my conditioning.
(06:55):
So I popped in the pool, kind oftaught myself a really sloppy
version of uh freestyle.
And as soon as I could possiblyget out, I did because I
realized like this fear and thisphobia is still here.
But one seed that eventually gotplanted was watching Phelps and
I believe it was the BeijingOlympics, and his incredible
(07:16):
performance there.
I've just, I get um, I do, I getvery reclemt when I watch people
and the the the top of theirgame, the upper echelons, elite
performers doing things whereit's so magnificent that it's
almost like a supernaturalperformance.
You see something shiningthrough that's not natural on
this earth.
(07:36):
And I remember watching that,and it planted a little seed.
So a few years later, I ended upum getting sick and tired of
being basically controlled by afear because that's not the type
of person who I am.
I charge right at my fears, Itackle them, I assault my fears.
But I had this one, and it wasvery inconsistent with who I am.
(07:57):
So I decided, you know what?
If I'm scared of having my facein water, the next logical step
would be to take up swimming forreal.
So I went and got a coach whosename, interestingly, is Bob
Bowman.
SPEAKER_03 (08:12):
No way.
SPEAKER_04 (08:14):
Yeah, crazy.
Not obviously not the sameperson, but he taught me all the
four swim strokes.
And uh at the end of one of ourlessons, he goes, Brian, you're
you're ready for a master'sprogram.
And I was entirely terrifiedwhen he said that to me because
I was still really freaked outabout the water, but I knew if I
(08:34):
waited, I would talk myself outof it, right?
Like a lot of us will do that.
So the next day I went, Iregistered for a master's team,
and kind of it's all historyfrom there, as they say.
SPEAKER_02 (08:45):
But when you so the first thing that got you in the
pool was an injury, and at thatpoint, were you swimming like
kind of with your head out orjust jogging in the water?
Or what what was the what wasthe ability to swim then?
SPEAKER_04 (08:58):
Um, the ability to swim then was I eventually got
it to where I could slowly swimfor, I think it was like a maybe
a half a mile to a mile withoutcompletely panicking, but I
definitely look like an openwater swimmer because I just
needed the oxygen and thefeeling of having my head out of
the water way too far out forproper swimming form just to
(09:21):
keep myself mentally engaged andin check.
SPEAKER_02 (09:25):
And that was that, and that was like at age 30-ish.
SPEAKER_04 (09:29):
No, so that was like a very short time span.
Um, I wouldn't say I really knewhow to swim at that point.
I just did my best.
Um, if at 30 years old is when Iwent and got lessons, when I had
kind of gotten fed up with beingcontrolled by fear.
When I got when I realized I wasreally freaked out about
heights, my solution to that wasto take up rock climbing.
So um kind of did the same thingwith swimming at 30 years old.
SPEAKER_01 (09:54):
So when we first started this conversation, you
differentiated phobia from fear.
Can you talk about that a littlebit more?
SPEAKER_04 (10:03):
Sure.
One of the main differences, Ithink, and I think it's
important for people torecognize this, like systematic
desensitization would be whatpsychologists would do for um
fears, right?
You get like you kind of dipyour toe in a little bit and you
desensitize to very lightversions of whatever the thing
(10:23):
is that freaks you out, whateversituation, whatever type of
animal or insect, et cetera.
And it's it's kind of a verygradual immersion where as um
something, and that's generallyused.
Sometimes flooding is used, andthat's when it's just
full-blown, throw you into thedeep end of the pool, so to
speak.
Um, me having the phobia, Ialways caution people like, be
(10:45):
very careful messing around withphobias.
I had enough of a background inpsychology myself and working
and helping other people that Iwas able to navigate that, but
it can be, frankly, kind ofpsychologically dangerous.
I think the biggest thing withthe fear is um I really wanted
to feed fear a sucket sandwich.
(11:07):
I was so sick and tired of it.
I'm like, I'm like, nope, thisis not gonna get get me.
And I would take any excuse tojust move forward a little bit.
So when uh Bob had said to me,You're ready to join a master's
program, awesome, I'll do that.
And then I got it in my head uhabout you know a month later,
this crazy idea.
I snuck into a high schoolcompetition at the local aquatic
(11:29):
center.
I was watching these kidscompete, and I was like, maybe I
could compete here someday.
And then I ended up doing that.
And all the while I'm workingthrough my fear, but really
reaching for these things thatinspired me and eventually
getting to what if I qualifiedfor Nationals Day one day?
Maybe, man, doing something likethat might inspire somebody else
who really has a challenge witha with an ongoing fear that's
(11:51):
been controlling them to acertain extent.
If they see me do something likethat, maybe that would give them
hope and impetus to moveforward.
SPEAKER_01 (11:59):
So you you again cautioned us like maybe phobia
is you wouldn't handle a phobiathe same way.
How do we know?
I would say it almost soundslike you're letting some kinds
of fears off the hook.
SPEAKER_04 (12:10):
Um, yeah, just like phobias are they're they're
trickier to deal with becauseit's such an elevated response
in the psyche of the humanbeing.
Fears are easier to work throughbecause you can kind of go into
them and you can sort of breatheyourself out of them.
But it would be some, you know,um, like uh, and and I am not
(12:32):
putting myself in this categoryat all, but just to use an
example, somebody who's aveteran who would have maybe
like a flashback or PTSD orsomething like that, like that's
not a fear issue.
That's a straight up, you reallyneed to get some directed help
for that because it's such aserious thing.
Um, but I think the steps toovercoming them can be the same,
(12:52):
but I really think by and large,with a phobia, you almost always
need outside help.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
Well, you can use outside help for anything and
for fears too.
SPEAKER_04 (13:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (13:03):
So, what are what are the steps for overcoming a
fear?
SPEAKER_04 (13:06):
Oh my gosh.
Um I can I can speak about itsince we're talking about this
particular story from my case.
Um, one is a lack of tolerancefor your own BS and standards
that you normally hold foryourself, but you're letting
yourself off the hook and you'renot admitting it to yourself.
(13:29):
At some point, you kind of haveto get a little bit fed up, not
mad at yourself, not beatingyourself up, just saying this is
BS and this is not in line withwho I am as an individual.
This is not part of my identity,and I'm playing small.
That's a big piece of it, Ithink.
Uh, another element to that isyou have to have some type of a
(13:50):
compelling, overarching desireand drive.
And then you need a lot oflittle intermediate ones.
So, to be honest with you, mybiggest driving force, I would
differentiate betweenmotivations and motives.
Um, my motive underneath it allwas really to do something
someday, possibly, that mightinspire other people and um kind
(14:12):
of point an arrow to the big manupstairs because it would be
something too big for me topossibly take credit for as a
human being, right?
That was the underlying motive,but that's a very big
overarching theme.
And so I then had to break thatdown into these really huge um
compelling goals to me.
And those are kind of one stepat a time because initially it
(14:34):
was just joining a master'sprogram, but then the very big
thing became doing some kind ofa competition, like, oh my gosh,
I'm not just practicing, I wouldactually be competing in a place
where other people are around topossibly watch me drown.
Um and then eventually it becamequalifying for nationals, you
know, and and now my big sort ofmoonshot thing is I want to wish
(14:55):
win a national championship dayum in master swimming.
I figure I've got till I'm about105 years old, so I'm good to
go.
But then day to day, justfinding any little motivator,
um, touching the wall first on aset and getting the acceleration
of that, and then maybe I canpush it again.
So um these big macros, breakingthem down into the micro pieces,
(15:18):
and probably another thing aboutovercoming fear, and I really
think if you know who you are,and you're you're not you're not
willing to let your your fearsbecome bigger than your faith in
in yourself and who you werecreated to be.
I really think that's what a lotof it boils down to, which means
(15:41):
you have to remind yourself ofthat every day, which means just
like in athletics, we've got totrain every single day.
It goes the same way for mentaltraining.
Every time you let a fear stopyou or hold you back from doing
something, it starts to developmomentum.
And so I got in a really goodhabit of every time I got to the
pool, like, don't overthink it,just get in, just get in, just
(16:04):
get in.
SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
That is that's all gold.
It really is.
Uh, we're we're hopefully gonnanail those down in the show
notes because I, you know, assomebody who I, you know, I
don't know if I have fears orphobias or both.
I'm sure we all have both.
Um, but your story inspires me,Brian.
I mean, I remember seeing you onthe cover of Swimmer magazine uh
(16:28):
and your story, and thatinspired me.
And, you know, just anybody whohas fears, if you take these,
you know, things to heart, youyou did this firsthand.
So that is really, reallyinspirational.
Every single one of thosepoints, which I can't wait,
Maria.
You and I love these and thetakeaways.
So um wonderful, wonderful.
We want to, I guess, move on tothis.
(16:49):
Now that we we know how toconquer our fears and phobias,
Don, can can you can you tiethis into uh your your dog
training and the this incrediblycreative and interesting and
alluring title of your book?
That um transformational dogtraining, bring out the best in
(17:11):
your dog by bringing out thebest in yourself.
We we've got to hear about this.
SPEAKER_04 (17:15):
Well, you sure can, but just to keep some suspense,
I'm gonna I'm gonna throwsomething out there on the tail
end of that that that might tieinto the overcoming fear.
This is just some things thathad kind of come to me as I was
thinking about coming in here.
And and one of the issues withpeople's psychology is like what
kind of emotional visitors doyou throw a tick or tape parade
(17:36):
for and invite into yourpsychological home?
SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
Oh, wait, wait, you gotta say that again.
SPEAKER_04 (17:42):
What kind of emotional visitors do you throw
a ticker tape parade for andinvite into your home mentally?
SPEAKER_01 (17:50):
What's an emotional visitor?
SPEAKER_04 (17:52):
An emotional visitor visitor could be something, and
I think you that you would wantto refuse these.
Um entertaining, refuse toentertain depression, guilt,
sadness, anger, and fear.
Um, I think you want to allowthem to be there, but then you
want to leave the door wide openfor them so they can leave when
they're ready.
(18:13):
But if you have something likean emotional visitor of joy,
love, uh, excitement, peace,elation, any type of positive
anticipation drops by for even asecond.
Run outside, throw your armsaround that visitor, invite them
inside and entertain the hellout of them, right?
Like, like don't think toyourself, why are they even
(18:34):
here?
They'll probably leave soon.
Because that's what you shouldbe saying about those negative
emotions.
So I think a lot of it isattending to what emotions do
you entertain?
And this is not talking aboutdenying if something is there.
It's just like don't go over andsit there and talk to sadness
and depression on the couch.
If you have a little glimmer ofjoy outside, wrap your arms
(18:55):
around that and magnify itbecause that is going to have a
huge impact on how you performand how well you're able to
overcome fears.
Now, tying it back into yourother question.
Um, I just remember when youwere asking me that one of the
kind of fears I had fromchildhood that were sort of
instilled by me or instilled inmy life was a fear of dogs,
(19:19):
honestly.
And just, you know, all thesestories and like news stories of
dogs biting and mauling childrenand certain people in my family
constantly told me about them.
Just like, uh one of the thingsthat I have discovered is
oftentimes your your absolutegreatest gifts and joys in life
lie on the other side of yourgreatest fears.
(19:39):
For me, having my head submergedin water, dogs, right?
And there's other examples Icould use, but I was freaked out
by dogs in the beginning.
But when I graduated from yeah,yeah, when I graduated from
college, I realized I had a giftfor working, um, not just with
humans on performance, but likeactual dog training and behavior
(20:02):
rehabilitation.
Um, I built a couple businessesup in that space.
And I wrote a book, uh, the oneyou mentioned, bring out the,
well, it's transformational dogtraining, but bring out the best
in your dog by bringing out thebest in yourself, because I
recognize through my work withpeople and their companion
animals, they're coming to mewith this problem, whatever the
(20:23):
problem is, the presentingissue.
And then uh I have to kind ofsift down through the layers and
recognize this person is askingme to fix their dog.
It's constantly this barrage ofcomplaints about the dog and
what's going on.
I'm like, okay, okay, and theydo this and they do that, and
then they want somebody to fixthe dog.
(20:45):
I'm like, dogs, they're a packanimal.
They see a system, they do notsee individual components, they
function within an environment.
And so if the environment of themind and the energy of the
people and the family members isnot where it needs to be, that's
going to have a downstreamimpact on the dog's behavior
because they are responding tothat energy and to the psyche.
(21:08):
And so I wrote the book to helppeople not only understand that
and understand dog trainingprinciples, but line up right
next to it principles of humanpsychology, self-development,
all kinds of stuff, even some alittle bit on the spiritual side
too, so that they couldunderstand how to support their
(21:30):
companion animals the best bymaking positive changes within
themselves.
SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
That's such a great take.
I mean, you of course I've heardthat before about dogs, you
know, dogs responding to theowners.
You're really training theowners.
And but I I love the take thathey, you can grow, and as you
grow, your dogs will startbehaving better.
That's beautiful.
Do you have some good storiesaround that?
SPEAKER_04 (21:55):
Oh gosh.
Um yeah, sure.
So here's one that comes tomind.
I went to I got called in and Ialways talk to people on the
phone first when I was gonna goover and do training for them.
So I had this conversation withthis gal and kind of had a sense
I knew the two dogs werefighting in the home.
Um, and they had a like it wasit came out of the blue.
(22:20):
And so I got there and I'mthinking this situation's really
weird.
Um, but I get into the home andI start talking, and all of a
sudden, I can, you know, I couldabsolutely sense the tension
between the mother and thedaughter.
It was palpable energetically inthe home.
Like, like, even if you don'tpay attention to that kind of
stuff, you would notice it waspretty obvious.
(22:41):
And they weren't saying anythingin the beginning, but I was
like, what's going on with youguys?
Because it was relevant becauseI recognized the two female dogs
had started having knockdowndrag out fights in the home once
the daughter came back into thehome, and the mom and the
daughter had not resolved theirprevious issues.
So their dogs were actuallyhaving and bearing the brunt of
(23:05):
this emotional negativity andthis just not great situation
between the individuals.
And so helping them see theconnection and then um get them
on board about like what's moreimportant, like your opinion and
being right, or like you havingto re-home one of your dogs or
(23:27):
put one of them down becausethey so severely injure the
other one.
Like, can we can we just get onboard for a cause that's bigger
than the bickering, please?
And I and I said it with peopleskills.
So I didn't say it quite likethat, but that's that's kind of
the gist of where we went withit.
SPEAKER_02 (23:43):
That's amazing.
That is that is truly amazing.
So uh let me throw out a dogsituation and see if it has
anything to do with uh me as theowner or how you would how we
how you would fix this.
So the dog of my life was a dognamed Margot.
She was half yellow lab, halfgolden retriever.
She was a fellow swimmer.
(24:04):
Like if there was wateranywhere, she would charge it
and just jump in.
Could be a pool, could be apond, could be a lake.
Uh when we'd walk the beach, sheshe surfed.
She just she was just an amazingdog.
The only downfall of Margot wasthat she would surgically remove
zippers from any anything in thehouse.
(24:27):
Like if you left your jeans onthe floor, it looked like she
literally took a seam ripper andlike the jeans would be perfect.
The zipper was gone.
The zipper on her dog bed, thezipper on like on a hoodie.
Um, if if she could get her whatis the Brian, I have so many
(24:48):
things swirling in my head rightnow.
SPEAKER_04 (24:52):
Okay, so there's not many things I haven't heard yet,
but congratulations, Kelly.
Um, that's one of them.
So Wowzers.
Um trousers, wowers, trousers,wowers, trousers.
That's crazy.
Also, I I don't know.
Maybe it's her own issue.
(25:14):
Um and it could be because dogswill have just weird quote
unquote pet issues that they'llpick up, little habits,
idiosyncrasies, um, just youknow, quirky little things that
they do.
And sometimes, in all fairness,it has nothing to do with their
humans at all.
Um, I think generally, if youhave a well-balanced, stable dog
(25:34):
that has really great quality oflife, and you know, they're in a
they're in a really good spaceand they're gonna have their
quirks, and those are the littlethings that we just love about
them.
Just like hopefully we lovethose same things about other
people.
Um, or we'll have to be carefulhere because I'm on your show.
SPEAKER_01 (25:52):
I don't know, trust me, she can take it perfectly.
SPEAKER_02 (25:55):
I can take it.
Oh, I have oh wait, I havetrouble with closure.
SPEAKER_04 (26:00):
There you go.
I was I was gonna say, you know,like honestly, I don't even know
what that would be about.
Like maybe um, maybe becauseyou're a swimmer and your dog
just really wanted to supportyou in that, and there's no
zippers on tech suits.
SPEAKER_02 (26:16):
Uh right, right.
They're not allowed.
There used to be.
There you go.
I love it.
I love that sense of humor.
Brian, do you do you I want youto throw out a dog story for
Brian?
You've had so many great dogs.
SPEAKER_01 (26:27):
Great dogs, and I'm I uh I had the first dog I had
was a German Shepherd, and itwas a very aggressive German
Shepherd.
And I also had lots of littlechildren, and so um had to get
hold of that pretty quickly.
And so uh I hired a dog trainerfor what at the time seemed like
an enormous amount of money.
(26:47):
Um, but it was the best thing Iever did.
She was because then I was ableto train all the dogs after
that.
But um, I'm I guess our our dogthat we have right now is a
sweet golden doodle.
Um and he really just has no Iguess he likes to eat squirrel
poop.
(27:08):
Oh my gosh.
The dogs like to eat poop,they're very interested in it.
SPEAKER_04 (27:14):
Oh my lord.
How old is your doodle?
Uh he's 12.
He's 12?
Oh yeah, wow.
Yeah, that that's that's yummy.
Um that's what I think.
It's very that's very specificbecause I know a lot of dogs are
like rabbit poop is really theirthing or whatever, like goose
poop is a big one, cats, catfish, all that kind of stuff.
But but squirrel poop, you guysare throwing some stuff at me
(27:38):
today.
I'm getting a big thing.
SPEAKER_01 (27:39):
Yeah, but you gotta diagnose Korea now.
No, wait, you know what else?
This is this is gonna be bettermaterial for you.
Okay.
He loves that blue stuff thatdiapers have.
Like, so when you have when adiaper, you know, they they
create diapers with this gelthat when they're wet, you know,
(28:00):
when the kid peas are, you know,it it it gets it gets um like
absorbed.
Absorbed, but and he's notinterested in dry diaper.
But once the diaper is eitherwet or poopy, and especially if
we leave him alone, like put itin the house, he devours
disgusting diapers.
(28:23):
That is so weird.
SPEAKER_02 (28:24):
Okay, that is the that is the last time that Binx
is gonna lick me.
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (28:30):
We just don't we just don't allow diapers around
the house.
A lot of grandkids.
SPEAKER_04 (28:34):
Yeah, there is it's funny that you mentioned that.
There's certain things aboutdogs that um I just really try
at a certain point.
Like, I'm not gonna think intothat too much.
Like it's such a weird thing.
Um, but I I will I will say thisthat just like we we see, and
(28:55):
this is part of the issuesometimes we have with dogs, is
um, or the dogs have with us, iswe see the world through such a
different lens.
Our our brains are built so muchdifferently.
The different regions that arededicated to different sense
organs and scents for dogs, theolfactory, is huge compared just
in volume alone to to the humanbrain.
(29:15):
And it's also just a good thingto think about where we're all
built differently, even asindividual people.
And um just a I thinkappreciating the differences
sometimes without needing tonecessarily understand what it's
all about can really help reducea lot of the anxiety and a lot
(29:36):
of the um, you know, just thefrustration that can happen in
relationships because we have tounderstand everything or we need
things to be a certain way.
And it's like, you know, likeyou're making yourself crazy,
right?
It's comes a certain point whereI will have some client, and you
didn't do this, but I'll haveyou know some clients that would
(29:56):
drill down like, but why is thatand why is that and why is that?
I'm like, does it matter?
Like, let's just help supportthem to feel better and to have
a better life.
It we don't need to get lost inthe dark hole of but why, but
why, but why, but why.
Um, we just need to help themmove forward.
And that's a beautiful thingabout dogs, is they don't hold
(30:16):
on to the past and fall in lovewith their dysfunctional stories
like people tend to, and wedon't have to deal with the ego
play.
So dogs are a beautiful exampleof being able to just move
forward.
And I think that if we can takethat to heart and use them as a
daily reminder, it's an amazingthing because people can get
caught up in again, theirstories, the layers of
(30:38):
complexity, the ego, themsubconsciously holding on to
problems because it serves themin some way.
And they go, No, I don't.
Like, I would never want, youknow, to live like this.
It's like, but you still are.
And to be courageous enough, ifif it's us and we really want to
fix something, to examine that.
But when we're looking at otherpeople to just appreciate the
(31:00):
differences, and love is the oneuniversal thing that can
absolutely heal and help andconnect.
And if we can just keep that inmind and like, let's fix
ourselves instead of gettingobsessed with what's out in the
world, that's probably more areflection of what's going on
within ourselves and we seeeverything that we don't like.
So let's work on that and let'sjust exude love and optimism and
(31:25):
positivity and grace and joy andall the things, those emotional
visitors that are conducive to apsychological environment that
makes for good performance inrelationships.
SPEAKER_01 (31:36):
I I'm so glad you got back to that because I did
want I love, love, love theconcept of these things as being
visitors.
Because of course we do vis getget joy at we get visited by
joy, but we also get visited bygrief and sadness.
And the idea that you don'tnecessarily want to make it too
comfortable, but you know, youacknowledge that they're there.
That's a beautiful thing.
(31:57):
But I one of the things thatKelly and I have talked a lot
about lately is uh with the newscycle as it is, and and that it
seems like they're pipingdepression, guilt, anger into
our brains, they I mean that weare we are getting this
tremendous negative visitors,you know, as you say.
(32:19):
Now, what what would you have tosay about that?
SPEAKER_04 (32:22):
I would say the best thing if you're honestly asking
me to approach that is to mereally focusing on the spiritual
side of life, not this nottalking about religion, just
spiritually being in alignmentwith who you truly are and like
the larger, whatever you want tocall it, source, God, the
(32:44):
universe, however people howeverpeople understand it.
Because when when you trulyelevate your consciousness and
spirituality is very much likemost anything else, it's
something that you research, youread about, you discipline
yourself, you have certainpractices and rituals you do.
Very few people just get struckwith the lightning bolt of like
spontaneous enlightenment.
(33:05):
So the rest of us, we we haveto, in some sense, apply
ourselves to grow and developand evolve spiritually over
time.
And as we do that and ourconsciousness comes up, um, it
naturally helps us have acompletely different perspective
when we watch things like thenews.
Like, for instance, if I'm notin a great place, I and I love
(33:28):
and honestly, like I reallyenjoy, which is weird, politics
for some reason.
I just think it's like afascinating truth is stranger
than fiction kind of a thing.
So it's like massivelyentertaining to me in a lot of
ways.
But if I'm not in a good spot, Ican't watch it for very long
because I will get pulled downinto something.
(33:49):
But if I'm looking at it fromthe right perspective and I've
got my spirit in alignment andmy psychology, and they're all
there, I absolutely have acompletely different experience
of it because I'm seeing it fromsuch a different facet that all
of a sudden um I can see the theactual the beauty in humanity
(34:12):
and the little glimmers thatcome up, and I can see the humor
in some of it and recognize, youknow, like, oh my gosh, that's
such a stupid thing, but ohyeah, like I'm a total hypocrite
because I did that yesterday,right?
And I'm getting on them aboutit, but that's something for me.
And so I think the perspectiveis the biggest thing.
(34:33):
It's it's like they say, youknow, as a as a speaker, it's
it's not it's not the message,it's not your performance, it's
the quality of the audience.
And and I want to make myself aquality audience when I'm
looking out at the world,especially today, because it's
not sunshine and rainbows thatthey're throwing at us.
SPEAKER_02 (34:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, Brian, this has been justamazing learning fears and
phobias and how to overcomethose, and also great stuff on
on dogs, which I know we'regonna have a ton of people love
that stuff.
So um, is there anything that wehave asked you that we have not
asked you that you would like toshare with our listeners?
SPEAKER_04 (35:12):
Uh well, yeah, I'll share this with you because when
I first when we first had talkedabout setting up this interview,
this this came to me.
I was like, you know what, I'mgonna, I'm gonna write that
down.
Um, this I don't know who thismight be for, but I wrote down
sometimes when we think we'reworn down and we're really tired
(35:33):
and we need a break, what wereally need is to be inspired.
Sometimes we think, gosh, I'mjust so tired and this and that.
It's like there's no, there'sno, there's no spark sometimes.
Sometimes you do need to take abreak.
I'm not talking about gettinginto burnout, but the best thing
to do, I think, for people thatI could encourage them is
inspire yourself.
(35:53):
Do something, put yourself onthe line, push yourself.
And it's great to be inspired byothers, but when you have an
amazing performance or you pushyourself, even if the
performance wasn't outstanding,but you threw your heart over
the bar and then you gave evenmore and you had like a second
or third win come in.
That's that's inspiring.
And I think that that's whatpeople really want to strive for
(36:15):
sometimes when they feel like,oh, I just need a little bit of
a break.
It's like, are you eveninspired?
Let's ask ourselves that firstbefore we take a three-month
layoff.
So um that's my uh that's my uhthought.
SPEAKER_01 (36:28):
That's that's really wonderful.
That's what a great way tointerview.
Thank you, Brian.
SPEAKER_02 (36:33):
Yes, and well, we we are still gonna move on to the
the speed round, the sprinterround, because you are a
champion swimmer and we have toask you.
Um, and hopefully that I don'thave it in the we'll get some
more little wisdom.
Okay, so um here we go.
(36:56):
Are you ready to have some funhere with a few little fun
questions?
SPEAKER_04 (37:00):
Okay, God willing.
My my heart's beating faster.
SPEAKER_03 (37:04):
Okay, give me a moment.
SPEAKER_04 (37:07):
I I am you know it's it's it's not performance
anxiety, it's performancearousal.
Um that's how I think of it.
Let's do this.
SPEAKER_02 (37:17):
I love it.
Go by the I think I think you'regonna nail it.
Cat or dog?
Uh dog.
Gee, that one was kind ofobvious.
Red or blue?
Uh blue.
This is not political.
Okay.
Milk chocolate or darkchocolate?
Uh milk.
SPEAKER_04 (37:35):
Milk, yeah.
Kickboard or no kickboard?
For sure.
Kickboard if I'm recovering, nokickboard if I want to do
underwaters.
Mountains or beach?
Beach, actually.
Beach.
SPEAKER_02 (37:50):
Football or baseball?
SPEAKER_04 (37:53):
Oh baseball.
Um, I don't know.
I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna go withbaseball because I played it a
lot when I was younger.
SPEAKER_02 (38:03):
iPhone or Android?
Android.
Coffee or tea?
Tea.
Morning person or night owl.
SPEAKER_04 (38:12):
I've conditioned myself to be a morning person.
So I'm a swimmer and I have nochoice.
But naturally, yes, isn't thatthe truth?
That's all right.
Naturally a night person, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:22):
I just want to point out, Kelly, that he's okay.
Maria's got some he's our veryfirst guest in 120 shows to say
Android over iPhone.
So we're I'm a record breaker,apparently.
SPEAKER_02 (38:35):
I love it.
Also, I I think he might be thefirst to say baseball as well.
That's true.
I'm a baseball girl.
I'm a baseball girl myself, soand we're Android.
So yeah, Maria's got some foryou.
Uh, these are super shortanswers.
Favorite color?
SPEAKER_01 (38:52):
Blue, favorite pizza topping, jalapenos, favorite
vegetable.
SPEAKER_04 (39:01):
Oh, cream corn.
SPEAKER_01 (39:05):
That's a good one, and also a first.
Uh favorite swim complex thatyou've swum in.
SPEAKER_04 (39:11):
Uh I actually liked uh I actually like Minnesota.
University of Minnesota.
SPEAKER_02 (39:19):
Uh that's another commonality.
I love Minnesota.
SPEAKER_04 (39:22):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (39:23):
See?
SPEAKER_01 (39:24):
Yeah.
Um, what's your favorite musicgenre?
SPEAKER_04 (39:29):
Oh I'm gonna say that's like totally dependent on
my anything from rap and RB toclassical music.
Okay.
Shoe size.
Eleven.
Do you have siblings?
SPEAKER_01 (39:43):
Yes, I have an older brother.
Favorite Star Wars character.
SPEAKER_04 (39:50):
I don't follow Star Wars, so I'm gonna say Luke
Skywalker because I mean hisname.
SPEAKER_01 (39:58):
It's a good one.
Luke's a good one.
Can you cook?
SPEAKER_04 (40:02):
I can heat things up on the stove occasionally.
SPEAKER_01 (40:07):
What word comes to mind when you dive in the water?
SPEAKER_04 (40:11):
I love this.
SPEAKER_02 (40:13):
Nice, nice.
Oh, gosh, that's beautiful.
Well, Brian, this has beenwonderful.
We uh we know you have manytalents.
Well, yeah, one of which is isyour uh peak performance
coaching.
And if anyone likes would likemore information on Brian and
that, it is atbergdorfperformance.com and
(40:34):
we'll have it in the show notes.
Bergford, sorry, saying itwrong.
Sorry.
Bergfordperformance.com andwe'll put it in the show notes
as well.
So wonderful having you with ustoday.
Thank you so much, Brian.
We wish you all the best.
Thanks, Brian.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (40:49):
I appreciate being with you guys.
I hope you have a lovely rest ofyour day.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (40:53):
You too.
Well, Maria, what a fabuloussurprise that was.
I mean, you know, we've we'vehad Olympians, Olympic
champions, Olympic coaches, uh,celebrities, all kinds of
amazing people.
And Brian Bergford was justamazing.
Yeah, lots of wisdom.
And besides, you know, his cool,cool story of having a fear of
(41:16):
the water and then taking upswimming at age 30, taking
swimming lessons, um, and thengoing on to start swimming at 30
and becoming kind of thismaster's elite swimmer on his
way to being a national championat some point here soon, I feel.
Um, he's just he's reallyovercome his fears.
And he talked to us aboutphobias and fears and how to do
(41:39):
that.
That's, you know, a reallyexciting thing in there.
But um, we also talked aboutdogs and his dog training
certification, which had someamazingly interesting talks.
So there's a lot of some greatstories.
Tune in, but um, what of allthat, Maria, what was your first
takeaway?
SPEAKER_01 (41:55):
Well, he, as you said, he had so many great
pieces of wisdom that I couldone of the one of the
expressions he uses, and wetalked about fears, is that he
he likes to assault his fears,love that idea.
Yes, but that's not my takeaway.
My takeaway that it the if I hadto say one was that he talked
about how uh he talked aboutemotional guests.
(42:17):
And what he means aboutemotional guests are emotions
that you that you have.
You can have depression, guilt,anger, sadness, fear, joy, hope,
you know, there's there's kindof the dark ones and then
there's there's the light ones.
And his his point was you'regonna experience all the whole
range of emotional guests, butyou don't have to make the bad
ones comfortable.
You know, in other words, yousaid, you know, if you're if
(42:38):
you're thinking about these asguests in your home, you don't
have to just sit down and chatwith the president, give it a
beer, or or you know, or or makeuh guilt a nice pillow to lay
on.
Yeah.
Instead, he said, when you, youknow, up outside your door, you
see hope and joy and umgladness, you run out the door
and you embrace them and you fixthem a five-course meal.
(43:00):
So I just love this concept ofyes, we have we're going to
experience the whole range ofemotions and emotional guests,
but we can really spend our timeand dwell in and think about and
entertain the positive ones.
I thought that was a beautifulconcept.
SPEAKER_02 (43:15):
Yeah, that that was a beautiful concept.
SPEAKER_01 (43:18):
Okay, Kelly.
SPEAKER_02 (43:19):
Well, this one that this just really resonated with
me because I have fears andphobias.
And I loved his, let's see, hisphrase was uh Zach, exactly just
have a lack of tolerance foryour own BS.
And that goes with what you saidabout, you know, kind of kicking
in the door and saying, you knowwhat, I'm tired of it.
(43:40):
And and I think there is aposture that one takes that I
take.
Maybe I'll just speak for myselfand anybody else who has it.
So once you start owning yourfears or your phobias or both,
then you kind of it kind of putsyou in this position of uh
subservience and and sadness andand vulnerability and really
(44:04):
weakness.
So we're putting ourselves inthat position when we embrace
our fears.
We are weak.
We cannot kick the door in.
But if you just kind of rise upand say, you know what, I am so
tired of always being thatperson who can't do this because
of this fear.
You know what?
I'm tired of that BS.
(44:24):
And like you said, you don'tbeat yourself up, but you just
say, I'm tired of it.
I'm kicking the door in.
And then to give your strengthis embrace what your greatest
being is.
Where are you at your greatestlevel?
What is your highest, what isyour highest purpose?
What can you do with yourselfthat's not be not owning this
(44:44):
personality of fear?
We love working with personas.
So you kind of become thatperson that doesn't have that
fear.
So I that one just truly hit mein my heart.
I didn't need to make any noteson that.
I just was like, that's thetakeaway that I'm getting out of
this show is is just don'ttolerate your own BS.
SPEAKER_01 (45:04):
I I love that.
And I've seen you do that,Kelly.
I've seen you just say, no, I'mnot gonna let this stop me.
And yeah, it's it's it'swonderful, wonderful.
SPEAKER_02 (45:13):
I think I think I love the differentiation between
fears and phobias because I cando that with my fears.
I can say, you know what, that'sBS.
I'm gonna do this, and I canjump in and do it.
But then I have phobias, whichare things like, you know,
really ingrained that youprobably need some long-term
stuff.
And and, you know, he gave theexample of uh the the war vets
(45:33):
who have PTSD.
You don't want to start, youknow, saying setting off fire
crackers and you know, and andand I know, you know, I have the
long-term multiplehospitalizations when I was a
little kid and lots of bad umbullying and teasing of
hospitals and things that Iexperience.
So I have a long, so I think Ihave a phobia of hospitals.
(45:55):
Um, and I don't know that goinginto a hospital is gonna really
like break that.
Maybe I can find something else.
It's not a fear of hospitals,it's a phobia of hospitals.
So that was a little bit of adifferentiation.
SPEAKER_01 (46:06):
So that was nice too, because it allows you, if
you have a real phobia, to say,okay, this is something that I'm
gonna need a little additionalhelp.
SPEAKER_00 (46:16):
We appreciate you listening to Champions Mojo.
If you follow us on Apple,you'll never miss an episode.
If you want Kelly's takeawaysfrom this episode, check out her
blog at championsmojo.com.
Thank you.
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