November 13, 2025 • 38 mins
Rob is joined by Gerry Dulac as Max is a little under the weather. The two discuss the concerns of the offense after last Sunday's matchup against the Chargers.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is in the locker Room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Forward Store.
The F one point fifty is the official truck of
the Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it
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Speaker 2 (00:27):
And good morning everybody, Happy Thursday to you, yep, Thursday.
Thanks very much for being with us in the locker
room with Max Starks, Justin Miller at our controls in
the iHeart studio, I'm Rob King. We have Jerry Dulac
coming up today in just about eight or nine minutes
or so, so we have that to look forward to
as Jerry will begin our breakdown of the Bengals in
(00:50):
earnest as we look forward to that rematch from the
game back on Thursday night on the sixteenth of October.
The Steelers had come into that game, as you recall,
row winners of three consecutive games. They lost thirty three
to thirty one, and since then they just you know,
they've lost three of four, including that game. So the
Steelers are trying to right the ship against the Bengals,
(01:12):
who have the best record in conference in the AFC
North and are only two games behind the Steelers even
with their struggles, which is remarkable when you consider what
has happened to the Bengals in the two games. Now
the Bengals are coming off their by Prior to that,
the Bengals had scored eighty points in back to back
(01:33):
games and lost them both. They became the first team
to score thirty eight or more points in back to
back games and lose them both since the nineteen sixty
six Giants. So they're making history. It's just not the
kind of history they want to be making. And when
(01:54):
you think about, you know, had they won either one
of those games and late collapses in both by the way,
they let up a late touchdown to the Jets and
then couldn't get themselves into field goal range, and then
they let up a late touchdown against the bear similar situation.
They couldn't come back, they needed a touchdown and that
one couldn't come back and score a touchdown to win.
(02:14):
And in the NFL Steeler the Bengals are one in
four over the last two years when they score thirty
eight or more points.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
The rest of the NFL is sixty two four and two.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
So the Bengals have got some issues stopping people, but
they sure can put up some points, as we found
out back in October March. Max, I mean, this is
a Bengals team that always has a chance because they
can simply put up a ton of points.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Yeah, and I agree, Rob, And I think when you
take this type of game, unlike other games, you have
to be aware of what the most threatening quality is, right,
and we know that their threatening quality is aerial assault.
They are they have two of the best receivers in
the league. And you know, Joe Flacco knows how to
(03:06):
get the ball out quickly. So when it's on, it's
working great. And when it's not is when the run
game isn't working. Third and long situations having to figure
out how to get how to get plays done, and
who who's the people that you're going to go after.
Is it t Higgins because Jamar Chase is getting doubled,
(03:28):
or now they have to play it true, so maybe
somebody else comes free on the underneath stuff because they're playing.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Too deep zone.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
That's the other part of it is you can't just
have a primary You got to have a backup to it,
and a backup to the backup, because that's just what
it's going to require. And this team. We've given this
team hope, We've let them believe that they have a
shot at this division, and it starts with beating us
(03:55):
for a second time. That's that's one of those things
where you got to go put it to bed. That's all.
That's all. That's all there is to say. You got
to go put it to bed.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, now, let me ask you this question, Max. You know,
it started to occur to me as I was watching
the Bengals playing the Jets and of course remembering what
they did against the Steelers and up next is the
Chicago Bears. That the offensive line hasn't gotten a lot
of credit for the Bengals, but I wonder, you know,
(04:26):
are they playing perhaps a little bit better than maybe
they're given credit for because Chase Brown, other than the
Bears game, has run the ball very well the last
three games. Now, obviously Flacco's helped, right because remember going
into that Thursday night game, they hadn't been running the
ball well at all. They'd really been struggling on the ground,
and now all of a sudden, you know, other than
(04:47):
this Bears game, they're ripping up huge chunks of yardage
on the ground, including against the Steelers. They're putting up
a ton of points, one hundred and thirteen points in
their last three games, which is incre really and of
course they're only one and two in that stretch, which
is also kind of incredible. But I do wonder you know,
a couple of third round choice rookies at the two
(05:10):
guard positions. You know, they put a first round tag
on Amarus Mims last year, they got Ted Carris, the
old Patriots center playing center for him, Orlando Brown Junior,
who I know is a little bit long in the tooth.
But is it possible this this offensive line which didn't
look great prior to Flacco taking over. I mean, certainly
(05:33):
their numbers have been helped since Flacco took over. But
are they playing decent football?
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Max?
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Well, I think they are. I think they're playing decent
at moments. I mean, because listen, they're putting points up,
you know what I'm saying, Rob Like, so they are
playing decent football from that perspective, it's just defensively, where
is the help? I mean, it's it's almost one of
those things where it's like you're looking at the end verse,
you know, whereas I'm sure we look at our team
(06:01):
right now and say, where's the offense. You know, need
to keep defense off the field. But it's a complete
opposite for the Bengals. They can score, they can score
in bunches, but the problem is their opponents can also
score at will against this defensive group. So that's really
where the difference is. It's not having enough dogs, being
(06:24):
able to rush off the edge, be able to affect
the quarterback passer enough, and stop the run like that's
been some of the hallmarks that have really troubled this team.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
It's a team that obviously can be exploited. You know,
you talk about one hundred and thirteen points scored, well,
they've given up more than that in the last three games.
It's just why they're one and two. So they can
certainly be exploited offensively. And you know, we're kind of hoping,
and we'll dig into more specifics, but just as a generality, Max,
we're kind of hoping that the Steelers' offense, which had
(07:00):
ten points only scored ten points against the Chargers, can
find a way to rebound and do much like they
did a couple of weeks ago in Cincinnati, you know,
putting up thirty one points, running the ball effectively, throwing
the ball effectively.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Of course, they lost.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
A turnover battle in that game, and that was an
item that came back to haunt them much as it
did against the Chargers. But maybe this is the kind
of game that will allow you to get your offense
back on track.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Yeah, this is a game where you think about it,
this is what this is the bounce back you need.
You're going against a far inferior defensive group. Now I
say that right now, but it is less than what
we can put out there on the field. So when
I use that, know that they're supposed to do what
(07:50):
they're gonna what we expect them to do. This is
that game to get to get yourself quote unquote get right.
And you were getting right going into Thursday night game.
But the problem was you let your foot off the
gas too soon and they were able to come charging back.
They figured out a game plan that was going to
work for them, that Joe was going to work with,
and then they just let him spread the ball around
(08:12):
the field, force for force, feed Jamar Chase and then
dink and dunk everything else he's covered dink. Oh he's
double covered, double dink.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Right, you know that, That's just how it was.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
And then Chase Brown was running out of his mind,
one of his best rushing performances really this season, if
not his career. And so you had all this kind
of buzz and attention that was there. Well, not a
lot of attention is being paid. And in the meadow Lands,
New Jersey right now or wherever the stadium is, met
(08:47):
Life Stadium is might not be in in met Park.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
What was it? I said, mett Park? Jeez Jet like.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Met Life Stadium, MetLife Stadium.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
So hey, hey, by the way, the Bengals have some
serious injury issues on defense, which we're going to get
to max. But so hold, let's hold our thoughts here
because Jerry Dulac is going to be joining us next
we have to take a break. We'll be back with
more in the locker Room and with Jerry Dulac. Presented
(09:20):
by you neighborhood, Ford Store and the Steelers Pro Shop
on steel This Nation Radio a part of the Steelers
Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
This is in the locker room with Kenyon stars like
Steelers Nation Radio presented by your neighborhood Ford store. The
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Speaker 3 (09:53):
Oh list.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
To that.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Jerry Dulac follows that love of their music brought to
you by Pomodoro, Game Wexford three Dour bud Light sixteen
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Speaker 4 (10:06):
All Steelers games.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
You're always delighted to have the cool breeze of Jerry
Dulac flowing through the locker room.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Do how you doing, my friend?
Speaker 5 (10:17):
Well, I am good, Rob, I hope you are too,
and just getting ready for another football game one Sunday.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, uh, Jerry, you know, we're kind of taking the
temperature of you know, where you think the team stands.
You know, I guess from my own perspective. I thought, okay, well,
Thursday night in Cincinnati, you know that kind of happens
on the road NFC or AFC North Division football.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
And then you know, they played a really good.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
First half against the Packers, still at the league going
into the fourth kind of fell apart.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
I thought, okay, well if.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
They bounce back against the Chargers, you know, sort of
all forgiven. Then you know, maybe you learned a lesson
or whatever in the second half of the Packers game,
however you want to put it. And then they just
they just did not play a good game at all
on Sunday night against the Chargers. Can you make a
generalization of where you think the team stand right now?
Speaker 5 (11:10):
Yeah, Rob, excuse me. I think the generalization would be
that it is an inconsistent football team, both by unit
offense and defense, and by overall performance in games. You know,
we haven't seen a solid back to back performance in
a while, and I mean a good one, and we
haven't seen an instance where the offense was I mean
(11:34):
where both the offense and defense really shut down the
other team. Now, even the Indie game, the defense was
really good and the offense capitalize on mistakes, but otherwise
didn't produce a lot of yards. And then you look
at the Cincinnati game, where they had their most yards
(11:54):
of the season, which is somewhat sad to say, was
still less than four hundred yards three ninety six. The
defense couldn't stop the Bengals, especially after the Steelers took
the late lead on that touchdown at Pat Fryman. It
looked like it was going to be an exciting, really
comeback wild victory. Instead it was a wild comeback loss.
(12:15):
And so when you're when if you want to make
a generalization, I would say that that's what it is,
that that they're inconsistency is apparent both from week to
week and both internally, you know, inside the game, offense,
the defense.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
You know, Jerry Uh, I agree with you one hundred percent,
And I do think that there were some things I
was looking at with this team, and you know, they
did what they needed to do to win games, right.
So it's not about getting six hundred yards of offense,
it's not about holding a team scoreless. It's about doing
(12:56):
what is required to win the game in front of you.
And I think that's been one of Mike tomlin strengths,
is coaching to win the game in front of them,
which means you sometimes don't put up the numbers that
other teams put up offensively or defensively. You know, maybe
you're you're punting it away and allowing your defense to
win you the game instead of going forward on fourth down.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
All these sort of things.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
As I step back and look at it though, and
I agree you like against the Colts opportunistic offense. Right,
it showed the character to score points when it needed
to score points given the short field. But as I
look at this team as a whole offensively, I'm you know,
I'm trying to find the trend within right, taking out
you know, all the game situations and everything, And to me,
(13:40):
it is it's just they don't possess the ball enough
and long enough. They don't convert series into another series
and pick up first downs often enough, and if they
truly want to get to where they want to get to,
I believe that's a part of the team that needs
to get better. I don't know if you're identifying the
same issue that's to me, I think that's the number
(14:02):
one issue facing the team right now.
Speaker 6 (14:04):
You know, and I do, And I think it should
be concerning to them that the average amount of plays
filts badly in their disfavor sixty nine to fifty five,
and some games teams, well three or four games teams
have run seventy some plays to their fifty And.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
That points up several things, and they can make all
the excuses they want. It points up that their defense
can't get off the field enough, and it points up
that their offense can't convert enough their downs to continue
to have plays. And so Sunday night it was sixty
nine to fifty. That's nineteen play disparity. That was the
(14:49):
second largest of the season. And you can't continue. And
it's been every game, every game the opponent has run
more plays than this dealers on average by fourteen plays.
And you can't continue to operate that way because then
you just don't get enough chances offensively to either want
(15:09):
to run the ball. What's Jalen Warren's what he has
eighteen carries was his most carries in a game this year, right,
you know there are games where Jalen Warren, on the
way he's been running, should have twenty some carries a game.
And it baffles me how Kenny Gainwell, who I think
is a nice piece to the offense as a backup,
has been very good. There is no way Kenny Gainwell
(15:31):
should play more plays than Jalen Warren as he did
Sunday in Los Angeles when Jalen Warren was having a
good running game, you know, seventy yards rushing, twenty one
yards receiving in a game that they're trailing. So that
can't happen, and I think you know, Rob to go
back to your first point. I think the other thing
(15:53):
that is a parent with this team when you look
at generalities. But I don't know if it's generalities or pacific,
but this is a team that relies too much on takeaways,
and I don't think they're good enough to win the
better games, the bigger against the better opponents without taking
the ball away. Now that could be a generalization, but
(16:16):
I think it's true. They're victories over New England and Indy.
That's the last time New England has lost were because
of excessive takeaways. Five against the Patriots, six against the Colts.
So I don't think this team is good enough to
win if they can't take the ball away. And so
to me, those are the two biggest concerns when you're
(16:39):
looking at it offensively and defensively. We have seen flashes
where they run the ball well and rub if they can't.
If they don't and can't run it this week, then
you should really hit the panic button because the Bengals
have allowed what five hundred and fifty yards rushing in
the last two games, and I think you'll see a
heavy emphasis on trying to run the ball and get ahead.
(17:01):
And as Mike Tomall likes to say, stay ahead, stay
on schedule, stay ahead of the chains. But when you're
not running more plays in the opposition every game, it's
going to catch up with you. And I think it
has with the Steelers, you.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Know, uh so much to discuss your Jerry, let me
start with Kenneth Gainwell, because you know, in the past,
Jalen Warren has been a change up back and he
was utilized a lot on third down by this Steelers,
which was interesting in and of itself. These things always,
(17:34):
you know, sort of engender for the conversation because Najehara
is coming into the NFL and in his first year
was an outstanding receiver, right, so you thought, well, maybe
he's a he's.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
In every down back.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
And then Jalen Warren kind of became the third down
back and Kenneth Gamewell out snapped Jalen Warren, but he
only had two receptions and didn't have a single carry,
so it's clear that he's kind of become their third
down back that Jalen Warren used to have, and Gamewell
played all those snaps, and we know Jail and Warren
by the way it's a great blocker and pits blitch pickup.
(18:08):
He played all those snaps and and didn't get the ball,
so that that was kind of interesting in and of itself,
you know.
Speaker 5 (18:16):
Rob The funny thing about and again this is this
is not to disparage Kenny Gamewell, because he's played very well,
and I again, I think it's a good piece to
the offense. And we saw in training camp that he
was going to play more than people thought. But the
but the ironic thing about the whole issue is that
he's becoming coming in more on third down because now
(18:38):
Jalen Warren's playing first and second down, and and Jalen
Warren is the better third down back because of his
ability to protect and and so again not to take
anything away from Kenny Gamewell. So what Jalen Warren does
very well, uh it uh, he's not being utilized in
that role. And I get what I get right why
(19:01):
because for the most part, Look, the guy's averaging almost
five yards of carry. He's been very productive, and but
I just think they need to rely on him a
little bit more than the most he's ever you know, again,
this season is eighteen carries and I think there needs
to be games where you know, he's in the twenties
because every running back you hear, every one of them
(19:22):
say they get better as a game goes on, the
more cares they have, the better they are. But again
that goes back to not being not having enough offensive snaps,
not converting third downs for any number of reasons. And
that's why, you know, Mike Tomlins said the other day
when I asked him about the disparity in plays, he said,
(19:42):
in general, the number doesn't bother them, bother him or
concern him, but why they are in those situations is
what concerns him. And that's what I'm talking about. The
inability to convert on third down and make the place
when you have to rights.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
And that's the when I want to get to next.
Jerry Dulac so big that he has two sponsors. He's
also brought to you by your neighborood Forts or the
F one fifties, the official truck of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Jerry,
you know, I was just I was curious about the
the turnover margin that you discussed and went back to
look at it further, and just the snapshot says in
(20:21):
the four games they've lost, they've lost the turnover battle
eight to two. In the five games they've won, they've
won the turnover battle fourteen to two. So I do
think that, you know, back to my earlier premise that
Mike Tomlin coaches the game to win the game, doesn't
worry about putting.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Up a bunch of statistics and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
You know, I don't know whether they would have played
the game differently, in particular against New England and the Colts,
when they won the turnover battle eleven to two, five
to one against New England, six to one against the Colts.
I think, on the one hand, it's easy to say, well,
they don't win those games if they don't get those
(21:06):
turnovers in those sacks. On the other hand, I also
think that they play the game that's presented to them,
and so they're not they're not trying to do too
much beyond just take advantage of those turnovers. Do you
understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 5 (21:21):
Absolutely? And that goes and that goes to and I
think your point is, Rob is that's the way Mike
Tomlin coaches. And so when I hear and I get
the questions whether in chats or on or emails or
whatever or online. The question I get why is the offense.
Why does it look the same. It looks the same
(21:41):
as Matt Cannona. It looks the same as Randy Fittner.
Now I don't think that's entirely true, but I get
their point when you look at them statistically. And the
reason why is because that's the way Mike Tomlin wants
the game to go. He wants you know, he's looking
to win the game however means necessary. But if it's
if it's ten to seven, or thirteen to ten or
(22:03):
sixteen to thirteen, he's perfectly fine with that, And so
he coaches that way. His mentality, his DNA is to
go into a game and operate that way. And so
his coordinators fall in line because you know he you know,
they discuss, okay, what do we want to do? And
his game plans, for the most part is play again.
(22:24):
You hear him talk about all the time, stay on schedule,
stay ahead of the change. As long as you're ahead
of the other guy. He doesn't need you to be
fifty yards ahead or fifty points ahead, as long as
you are ahead. And he coaches that way, and it's
a conservative style of coaching. It has bowed him well
over the years, let's face it. It hasn't vowed well
(22:46):
for him in a postseason of course, as we know.
But it's the way he coaches, and it's the way
his coordinators are going to both coach and call the
game because they operate under his umbrella.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
You know.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
And I totally agree with everything you've said, and I
think that's a good point to be made. The other
point he made during the press conference on Tuesday, I
think is you know, bears a little bit of shining
a little bit of light on is you know. Okay,
So people say, well, you got to have all the
If you don't get all those turnovers, you don't beat
New England, you don't beat the Colts. We don't really
(23:21):
know that for sure. Because you got the turnovers and
won the game. We don't know would have happened had
you not gotten those turnovers. But the other point he
makes is not turning the ball over. So again just
to go back to the wins. Okay, so you look
at the fourteen turnovers, that's the number that's going to
jump out. Hey, this two is at fourteen turnovers in
their five games. They can't win without that. Well they
(23:44):
also if that's your premise, well they've They also only
turned the ball over twice in the four losses. They
turned the ball over eight times. And that's the other
point I think he was making is that, look, the
turnover culture doesn't just mean creating them, it means not
having them yourself. So again, Cincinnati, think about that. It
comes down to a final drive for the Bengals. Well,
(24:05):
you lost a turnover battle two to nothing, right, Green Bay,
you lost about turnover battle one nothing. Chargers you lost
it three nothing. Seattle is technically even two too. But
keep in mind that not covering a kick in the
end zone, which is the turning point of the game,
doesn't count as turnover, right, So you know, not having
those turnovers is an important part also of turnover culture
(24:27):
that has cost them in their losses.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
And rub and it goes back again to the way
Mike Tomlin wants to coach. There's no question he you know,
he preaches that all the time. It's fine if you
take it away, but don't be given it to them.
And so that's the way he wants his quarterbacks to play.
And that's all you have to do. Is go backward
and see the way they play. One of the things
(24:50):
you know that kind of going back to when Bruce
Arians was the offensive coordinator, is they didn't like that daring,
no risk it, no biscuit mentality that Bruce had, even
though he was the best coordinator they've had. Going back
to went right before when Mike, when Kenny wizen Hunt
was there, and of course Bruce Arians replaced Ken wizen Hunt,
(25:11):
and then of course he replaced Mike Malarkey. But Mike
Tomlin does not like to coach that way, and so
they prefer this, you know, the style that you know
that they have that he embraces, and that's the play
a conservative don't turn the ball over. That was a
number one prerequisite for justin Fields, a young quarterback. It's
(25:31):
one of the things didn't get it was It wasn't
what led to Mitch Trubisky being benched, because that's a
whole other issue what transpired then, but that was part
of it. The inability to protect the ball, and so
that was a big thing, you know, was emphasized with
Russell Wilson, and it's why you see Aaron Rodgers throw
the ball on the ground and throw it out of
(25:53):
bounce one. He's a twenty one year veteran, he knows better.
But that's what they do. Throw it away, throw it
in the ground. You know, he heard him say the
other day, you know, with the safety he said, I
should have just thrown it in the ground, and it's
surprising that he didn't when he was trying to avoid
pressure and he bumps into Tanu and loses the ball.
That's the way Mike Tomlin wants to coach, and that's why,
(26:15):
you know, it's a safe way to coach. You could
call it a conservative way to coach, but that's the
way he wants to operate. And it's stressed to the
players and to his you know, his play callers, and
that's just all part of the way he wants to operate.
And he's not going to be a guy who's going
to consistently win games forty to twenty seven. That's just
(26:36):
not his style. Like they have to win that way,
and like the last Cincinnati game, which they lost, but
you saw the way they came back. They'll do it.
But if he has his brothers protect the ball, don't
turn it over, throw it in the ground, throw it
out of bounds and one of his basic mantras it's
okay to punt, and so that's the way he coaches.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
And by the way, Eddie Faulkon's running back coach, works
on that all the time as well, making sure you
don't fumble the ball. In Aaron Rodgers, he has the
guy with the lowest interception rate in NFL history at
the control. So that makes it a good match. And
I know, Harry, you're up against it, but just real quick,
like I couldn't help but think if Aaron Rodgers, if
that had been Aaron rodgers first game, the game against
the Chargers, people will be.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Howling, Oh my goodness, they wont got this old quarterback.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
And I think he's been fantastic for the Steelers. I mean,
I'll way better than I think a lot of people thought.
I think it's the best quarterback play they've had in years.
But I do think he needs to bounce back. And
what is your expectation. First of all, do you agree
with that he needs a bounce back game or that
not he needs one, but you're looking for a bounce
(27:41):
back game, And it was your assessment that that he
didn't play a strong game on Sunday.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
Night in Well, there's no question, and he admits it.
He did not play very well at all. It's his
worst game that he's had since he's been here. Statistically,
you know, is the second worst game in six years,
so it's it was certainly an anomaly for him. I
think what needs to bounce back is the offensive production.
I know, he threw four touchdowns against the Colts, but
(28:09):
he had those takeaways in the short fields. But at
least to his credit and the offensive credit, they capitalized
on those mistakes. But only four hundred and forty twos
four hundred and forty nine yards offense the last two games.
That's the second fewest two game total since twenty nineteen,
and that's where against the poorest defense. You know, they
had their most yards of the season in Cincinnati. They
(28:32):
have to do that and more if you're talking about
a bounce back. But I will say this though, too.
It was just a couple of weeks ago that on
national television Aaron Rodgers convinced everybody with that performance in
Cincinnati that WHOA, this guy still has something left in
his tank. And boy, I think this guy could take
him to the postseason. I don't think anything's changed in
two weeks. Rob, he just did not play well last
(28:55):
week in LA.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Yeah, it's so funny.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
That was my absolute number take one takeaway Nick game
in Cincinnati. Anybody had any doubts, those doubts were put
the rest and then, you know, then we saw what
happened on Sunday nights. So yeah, I don't think that's
the biggest fear for me, Jerry. A reminder Jerry Dulac
is brought to you by Pomador in Wexford three dour
bud light sixteen ounce drafts for all Steeler games. Jerry, thanks,
(29:19):
my friend. I will see you shortly on the South side.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
You got Rob, Good chat Windy, my friend.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
You too, Jerry. Jerry Dulac always a pleasure to have
the cool breeze blown through the locker room of Jerry Dulac.
Stick around. We have more to come in the locker
room before we head to break. We want to remind
you that you can gear up with the latest game data,
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(29:47):
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(30:07):
Pro Shop on Steve This Nation Radio a part of
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Speaker 1 (30:15):
This is in the locker Room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Ford Store.
The F one fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop at Shop
dot Steelers dot com.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
And thanks for being back with us. In the locker room.
We have maca.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Stark's a little under the weather today, but we're going
to Soldier on. We might pop in and check in
with Max. Every now and again. We want to open
up the phone lines to us. We sometimes do here
in the locker room. It's something that we didn't do
earlier in the year, but are getting back to more
and more to uphold the tradition of I guess it
goes back to Touch and Wolf, right, Tounch and Wolf
(31:00):
in the locker room, and then of course Wolf and
Max in.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
The locker room.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
And now want to continue that tradition our phone numbers
four one two nine, nine one three one six asking
you what is your biggest concern heading into this game
against Cincinnati and heading down the stretch of the season
for the Steelers. I know what my number one concern is,
and uh I've sort of mentioned that if you've been
listening over the last several days, and we'll get to
(31:25):
that with you if you want to give us a
call again the phone number four one two nine one
nine one three one six. Also want to let you
know that we will do our AFC preview coming up
a little bit later on in the program, uh, beginning
with Thursday at football then carrying through the weekend. There
are some tremendous football games happening this weekend that are
(31:48):
going to you know, maybe separate who stands where in
the NFL and certainly in the AFC as well.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
UH. We've talked about the power rankings.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
We can you know, touch on those a little bit
later on in the program, as well as it relates
to this weekend's activity. Of course, the game that we're
most concerned about is the Steelers and the Cincinnati Bengals.
A reminder two for those of you who are daily
listeners that coming up tomorrow at ten twenty we will
be joined by Dan Horde, the outstanding play by play
(32:17):
man of the Cincinnati Bengals, to talk about their team
and where they stand. Keep in mind that despite their record,
the Bengals are right in the AFC North. Said that
twice now the AFC North battle because they are only
two games behind the Steelers. And so it goes, you know,
(32:37):
Steelers at five and four, Ravens at four and six,
and the Bengals at our begging part the Bengals the
Ravens at four and five. So the Ravens are one
game behind the Steelers and the Bengals at three and
six are only two games behind the Steelers. But keep
in mind the division records, So that is your first
that is you know, the the you know you have
(32:59):
head to head, but then the vision becomes the big
tie breaker come playoff time. The students are one and
one in the division. Should the Bengals win this game,
the Steelers would be one and two in the division.
That leaves them work ahead with games coming up two
against the Ravens one more against the Cleveland Browns. The
Bengals would be three and oh in the division, three
(33:20):
and oh and one game behind the Steelers and potentially
one game behind the Ravens who have the Browns this week.
So the Bengals, this is a hugely important game. We
talked about going into that Thursday night game that if
you were looking for a desperation factor, that that desperation
factor would lie with the Cincinnati Bengals. The Bengals went
(33:42):
into that game absolutely needing a victory. They had just
traded for Joe Flacco a couple of days before, underscoring
the importance of that game against the Steelers and trying
to bridge the gap to when Joe Burrow might return.
Of course, as you know, Burrow's returned to practice this
week for the Bengals. We'll talk with that about that
with Dan Horde, whether that is giving the team sort
(34:03):
of a psychological boost to knowing that their franchise quarterback
and his return could possibly be right around the corner.
So you know that was a desperate game for the Bengals. Well,
this is the same thing for the Bengals. If you're
the Steelers and you lose this game, you're at least
still tied for the division.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Now.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
I think there's a level of desperation for the Steelers
in this game as well, just trying to get their
season back on track. But if you're the Bengals and
you lose this game, it's hard to envision you really
being in the race. Now you're two games behind. Presumably
if the Ravens take care of business against the Browns,
two games behind the Ravens, three games behind the Steelers,
(34:41):
you now have a division loss.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
So the possibility of you.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Winning, you know, taking a commanding intra division lead, as
far as that record would be concerned, that would falter
a little bit as well. So this is a hugely
important game for the Bengals, but again it is an
awfully important game of the Steelers as well. So again,
just to put in context some of the things about
the Steelers Bengals rematch, you go back to the sixteenth
(35:09):
of October, and the Bengals, desperate for a win, came
back with that elite last drive to defeat the Steelers
thirty three to thirty one, after the long touchdown passed
the Pat Fryarmouth with just over two minutes remaining, had
put the Steelers back in the lead. In that game,
Aaron Rodgers twenty three for thirty four, four touchdowns, he
(35:30):
did throw two interceptions. Joe Flacco thirty one for forty
seven three hundred and forty two yards, three touchdowns, zero interceptions.
Both teams ran the ball very effectively. Not that big
of a surprise for the Steelers to run the ball
well against the Bengals because the running game had come
to life in the previous couple of games for the
(35:51):
Steelers and the Bengals had the worst rush defense in
the NFL. That has continued. By the way, the Bengals
still had the worst rush defense in the NFL. In fact,
it's got worse since that matchup with the Steelers. Jill
and Warren went sixteen for one point twenty seven seven
point nine yards per carry. The biggest shocker I think
in this game between the Steelers and the Bengals was
(36:14):
Chase Brown running eleven times for one hundred and eight
yards nine point eight yards per carry. He'd come in
averaging less than three yards per carry. A guy that
had been a breakout performer the season before for the
Bengals just had been held, had been shackled prior to
that game, and then unshackled himself and got the running
(36:36):
game going. And again that was a little bit of
a factor when you think about the Bengals having everything
at their disposal. Pat Freyermuth was the leading receiver for
the Steelers in that game, five receptions for one hundred
and eleven yards. Jamar Chase sixteen receptions one hundred and
sixty one yards and a touchdown. T Higgins six receptions
ninety eight yards and a touchdown. Since Joe Flack has
(37:00):
been in Cincinnati, Chase has been incredible. Even by Chase's standards,
He's averaging one hundred and twenty one yards per game
receiving and t. Higgins has four touchdown receptions in the
three games.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
With Flakka at the helm.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
So keep in mind that the passing game has been
going still and it continued against the Jets that game
that they lost thirty nine to thirty eight, and then
with steinied a little bit against the Bears, but they
still put up over thirty eight points against the Bears
in that loss. I think it's important for the Steelers
in this game to take away Brown, don't allow the
(37:38):
Bengals to have everything at their disposal like they did
in Week one.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Eliminate something.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
It is very, very difficult to eliminate Jamar Chase, but
I don't think you can have Chase n Higgins And
keep in mind the tight end receptions, especially when it
comes to touchdown receptions that's been an issue for the Steelers.
Was an issue in that game because Noah Fant caught
a touchdown pass as well. Although it was a very
wide receiver centric attack by Joe Flacco and the Bengals
(38:07):
in that game, Fant still did get in the end zone.
And so that's something that the Steelers are going to
also have to keep an eye on in this game.
So once again, UH, we are going to open up
the phone lines to you. The phone number is four
one two nine one nine one three one six. What
are your biggest concerns for the Steelers heading into this
game and down the stretch. That's what we're asking you
(38:30):
to chime in on here in the locker room. Four
one two nine one nine one three, one six the
phone number to dial. We will continue in the locker room,
presented by your neighborhood Forward Store and the Steelers Pro
Shop on Steelers Nation Radio, a part of the Steelers
Audio Network
This is in the locker Room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Forward Store.
The F one point fifty is the official truck of
the Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it
direct from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop at
shop dot Steelers dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And good morning everybody, Happy Thursday to you, yep, Thursday.
Thanks very much for being with us in the locker
room with Max Starks, Justin Miller at our controls in
the iHeart studio, I'm Rob King. We have Jerry Dulac
coming up today in just about eight or nine minutes
or so, so we have that to look forward to
as Jerry will begin our breakdown of the Bengals in
(00:50):
earnest as we look forward to that rematch from the
game back on Thursday night on the sixteenth of October.
The Steelers had come into that game, as you recall,
row winners of three consecutive games. They lost thirty three
to thirty one, and since then they just you know,
they've lost three of four, including that game. So the
Steelers are trying to right the ship against the Bengals,
(01:12):
who have the best record in conference in the AFC
North and are only two games behind the Steelers even
with their struggles, which is remarkable when you consider what
has happened to the Bengals in the two games. Now
the Bengals are coming off their by Prior to that,
the Bengals had scored eighty points in back to back
(01:33):
games and lost them both. They became the first team
to score thirty eight or more points in back to
back games and lose them both since the nineteen sixty
six Giants. So they're making history. It's just not the
kind of history they want to be making. And when
(01:54):
you think about, you know, had they won either one
of those games and late collapses in both by the way,
they let up a late touchdown to the Jets and
then couldn't get themselves into field goal range, and then
they let up a late touchdown against the bear similar situation.
They couldn't come back, they needed a touchdown and that
one couldn't come back and score a touchdown to win.
(02:14):
And in the NFL Steeler the Bengals are one in
four over the last two years when they score thirty
eight or more points.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
The rest of the NFL is sixty two four and two.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
So the Bengals have got some issues stopping people, but
they sure can put up some points, as we found
out back in October March. Max, I mean, this is
a Bengals team that always has a chance because they
can simply put up a ton of points.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Yeah, and I agree, Rob, And I think when you
take this type of game, unlike other games, you have
to be aware of what the most threatening quality is, right,
and we know that their threatening quality is aerial assault.
They are they have two of the best receivers in
the league. And you know, Joe Flacco knows how to
(03:06):
get the ball out quickly. So when it's on, it's
working great. And when it's not is when the run
game isn't working. Third and long situations having to figure
out how to get how to get plays done, and
who who's the people that you're going to go after.
Is it t Higgins because Jamar Chase is getting doubled,
(03:28):
or now they have to play it true, so maybe
somebody else comes free on the underneath stuff because they're playing.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Too deep zone.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
That's the other part of it is you can't just
have a primary You got to have a backup to it,
and a backup to the backup, because that's just what
it's going to require. And this team. We've given this
team hope, We've let them believe that they have a
shot at this division, and it starts with beating us
(03:55):
for a second time. That's that's one of those things
where you got to go put it to bed. That's all.
That's all. That's all there is to say. You got
to go put it to bed.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, now, let me ask you this question, Max. You know,
it started to occur to me as I was watching
the Bengals playing the Jets and of course remembering what
they did against the Steelers and up next is the
Chicago Bears. That the offensive line hasn't gotten a lot
of credit for the Bengals, but I wonder, you know,
(04:26):
are they playing perhaps a little bit better than maybe
they're given credit for because Chase Brown, other than the
Bears game, has run the ball very well the last
three games. Now, obviously Flacco's helped, right because remember going
into that Thursday night game, they hadn't been running the
ball well at all. They'd really been struggling on the ground,
and now all of a sudden, you know, other than
(04:47):
this Bears game, they're ripping up huge chunks of yardage
on the ground, including against the Steelers. They're putting up
a ton of points, one hundred and thirteen points in
their last three games, which is incre really and of
course they're only one and two in that stretch, which
is also kind of incredible. But I do wonder you know,
a couple of third round choice rookies at the two
(05:10):
guard positions. You know, they put a first round tag
on Amarus Mims last year, they got Ted Carris, the
old Patriots center playing center for him, Orlando Brown Junior,
who I know is a little bit long in the tooth.
But is it possible this this offensive line which didn't
look great prior to Flacco taking over. I mean, certainly
(05:33):
their numbers have been helped since Flacco took over. But
are they playing decent football?
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Max?
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Well, I think they are. I think they're playing decent
at moments. I mean, because listen, they're putting points up,
you know what I'm saying, Rob Like, so they are
playing decent football from that perspective, it's just defensively, where
is the help? I mean, it's it's almost one of
those things where it's like you're looking at the end verse,
you know, whereas I'm sure we look at our team
(06:01):
right now and say, where's the offense. You know, need
to keep defense off the field. But it's a complete
opposite for the Bengals. They can score, they can score
in bunches, but the problem is their opponents can also
score at will against this defensive group. So that's really
where the difference is. It's not having enough dogs, being
(06:24):
able to rush off the edge, be able to affect
the quarterback passer enough, and stop the run like that's
been some of the hallmarks that have really troubled this team.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
It's a team that obviously can be exploited. You know,
you talk about one hundred and thirteen points scored, well,
they've given up more than that in the last three games.
It's just why they're one and two. So they can
certainly be exploited offensively. And you know, we're kind of hoping,
and we'll dig into more specifics, but just as a generality, Max,
we're kind of hoping that the Steelers' offense, which had
(07:00):
ten points only scored ten points against the Chargers, can
find a way to rebound and do much like they
did a couple of weeks ago in Cincinnati, you know,
putting up thirty one points, running the ball effectively, throwing
the ball effectively.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Of course, they lost.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
A turnover battle in that game, and that was an
item that came back to haunt them much as it
did against the Chargers. But maybe this is the kind
of game that will allow you to get your offense
back on track.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Yeah, this is a game where you think about it,
this is what this is the bounce back you need.
You're going against a far inferior defensive group. Now I
say that right now, but it is less than what
we can put out there on the field. So when
I use that, know that they're supposed to do what
(07:50):
they're gonna what we expect them to do. This is
that game to get to get yourself quote unquote get right.
And you were getting right going into Thursday night game.
But the problem was you let your foot off the
gas too soon and they were able to come charging back.
They figured out a game plan that was going to
work for them, that Joe was going to work with,
and then they just let him spread the ball around
(08:12):
the field, force for force, feed Jamar Chase and then
dink and dunk everything else he's covered dink. Oh he's
double covered, double dink.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Right, you know that, That's just how it was.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
And then Chase Brown was running out of his mind,
one of his best rushing performances really this season, if
not his career. And so you had all this kind
of buzz and attention that was there. Well, not a
lot of attention is being paid. And in the meadow Lands,
New Jersey right now or wherever the stadium is, met
(08:47):
Life Stadium is might not be in in met Park.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
What was it? I said, mett Park? Jeez Jet like.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Met Life Stadium, MetLife Stadium.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
So hey, hey, by the way, the Bengals have some
serious injury issues on defense, which we're going to get
to max. But so hold, let's hold our thoughts here
because Jerry Dulac is going to be joining us next
we have to take a break. We'll be back with
more in the locker Room and with Jerry Dulac. Presented
(09:20):
by you neighborhood, Ford Store and the Steelers Pro Shop
on steel This Nation Radio a part of the Steelers
Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
This is in the locker room with Kenyon stars like
Steelers Nation Radio presented by your neighborhood Ford store. The
f one point fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shot. Get it direct
from the team at the Steelers Pro Shot at shop
dot Steelers dot com.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Oh list.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
To that.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Jerry Dulac follows that love of their music brought to
you by Pomodoro, Game Wexford three Dour bud Light sixteen
out drafts.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
All Steelers games.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
You're always delighted to have the cool breeze of Jerry
Dulac flowing through the locker room.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Do how you doing, my friend?
Speaker 5 (10:17):
Well, I am good, Rob, I hope you are too,
and just getting ready for another football game one Sunday.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, uh, Jerry, you know, we're kind of taking the
temperature of you know, where you think the team stands.
You know, I guess from my own perspective. I thought, okay, well,
Thursday night in Cincinnati, you know that kind of happens
on the road NFC or AFC North Division football.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
And then you know, they played a really good.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
First half against the Packers, still at the league going
into the fourth kind of fell apart.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
I thought, okay, well if.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
They bounce back against the Chargers, you know, sort of
all forgiven. Then you know, maybe you learned a lesson
or whatever in the second half of the Packers game,
however you want to put it. And then they just
they just did not play a good game at all
on Sunday night against the Chargers. Can you make a
generalization of where you think the team stand right now?
Speaker 5 (11:10):
Yeah, Rob, excuse me. I think the generalization would be
that it is an inconsistent football team, both by unit
offense and defense, and by overall performance in games. You know,
we haven't seen a solid back to back performance in
a while, and I mean a good one, and we
haven't seen an instance where the offense was I mean
(11:34):
where both the offense and defense really shut down the
other team. Now, even the Indie game, the defense was
really good and the offense capitalize on mistakes, but otherwise
didn't produce a lot of yards. And then you look
at the Cincinnati game, where they had their most yards
(11:54):
of the season, which is somewhat sad to say, was
still less than four hundred yards three ninety six. The
defense couldn't stop the Bengals, especially after the Steelers took
the late lead on that touchdown at Pat Fryman. It
looked like it was going to be an exciting, really
comeback wild victory. Instead it was a wild comeback loss.
(12:15):
And so when you're when if you want to make
a generalization, I would say that that's what it is,
that that they're inconsistency is apparent both from week to
week and both internally, you know, inside the game, offense,
the defense.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
You know, Jerry Uh, I agree with you one hundred percent,
And I do think that there were some things I
was looking at with this team, and you know, they
did what they needed to do to win games, right.
So it's not about getting six hundred yards of offense,
it's not about holding a team scoreless. It's about doing
(12:56):
what is required to win the game in front of you.
And I think that's been one of Mike tomlin strengths,
is coaching to win the game in front of them,
which means you sometimes don't put up the numbers that
other teams put up offensively or defensively. You know, maybe
you're you're punting it away and allowing your defense to
win you the game instead of going forward on fourth down.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
All these sort of things.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
As I step back and look at it though, and
I agree you like against the Colts opportunistic offense. Right,
it showed the character to score points when it needed
to score points given the short field. But as I
look at this team as a whole offensively, I'm you know,
I'm trying to find the trend within right, taking out
you know, all the game situations and everything, And to me,
(13:40):
it is it's just they don't possess the ball enough
and long enough. They don't convert series into another series
and pick up first downs often enough, and if they
truly want to get to where they want to get to,
I believe that's a part of the team that needs
to get better. I don't know if you're identifying the
same issue that's to me, I think that's the number
(14:02):
one issue facing the team right now.
Speaker 6 (14:04):
You know, and I do, And I think it should
be concerning to them that the average amount of plays
filts badly in their disfavor sixty nine to fifty five,
and some games teams, well three or four games teams
have run seventy some plays to their fifty And.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
That points up several things, and they can make all
the excuses they want. It points up that their defense
can't get off the field enough, and it points up
that their offense can't convert enough their downs to continue
to have plays. And so Sunday night it was sixty
nine to fifty. That's nineteen play disparity. That was the
(14:49):
second largest of the season. And you can't continue. And
it's been every game, every game the opponent has run
more plays than this dealers on average by fourteen plays.
And you can't continue to operate that way because then
you just don't get enough chances offensively to either want
(15:09):
to run the ball. What's Jalen Warren's what he has
eighteen carries was his most carries in a game this year, right,
you know there are games where Jalen Warren, on the
way he's been running, should have twenty some carries a game.
And it baffles me how Kenny Gainwell, who I think
is a nice piece to the offense as a backup,
has been very good. There is no way Kenny Gainwell
(15:31):
should play more plays than Jalen Warren as he did
Sunday in Los Angeles when Jalen Warren was having a
good running game, you know, seventy yards rushing, twenty one
yards receiving in a game that they're trailing. So that
can't happen, and I think you know, Rob to go
back to your first point. I think the other thing
(15:53):
that is a parent with this team when you look
at generalities. But I don't know if it's generalities or pacific,
but this is a team that relies too much on takeaways,
and I don't think they're good enough to win the
better games, the bigger against the better opponents without taking
the ball away. Now that could be a generalization, but
(16:16):
I think it's true. They're victories over New England and Indy.
That's the last time New England has lost were because
of excessive takeaways. Five against the Patriots, six against the Colts.
So I don't think this team is good enough to
win if they can't take the ball away. And so
to me, those are the two biggest concerns when you're
(16:39):
looking at it offensively and defensively. We have seen flashes
where they run the ball well and rub if they can't.
If they don't and can't run it this week, then
you should really hit the panic button because the Bengals
have allowed what five hundred and fifty yards rushing in
the last two games, and I think you'll see a
heavy emphasis on trying to run the ball and get ahead.
(17:01):
And as Mike Tomall likes to say, stay ahead, stay
on schedule, stay ahead of the chains. But when you're
not running more plays in the opposition every game, it's
going to catch up with you. And I think it
has with the Steelers, you.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Know, uh so much to discuss your Jerry, let me
start with Kenneth Gainwell, because you know, in the past,
Jalen Warren has been a change up back and he
was utilized a lot on third down by this Steelers,
which was interesting in and of itself. These things always,
(17:34):
you know, sort of engender for the conversation because Najehara
is coming into the NFL and in his first year
was an outstanding receiver, right, so you thought, well, maybe
he's a he's.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
In every down back.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
And then Jalen Warren kind of became the third down
back and Kenneth Gamewell out snapped Jalen Warren, but he
only had two receptions and didn't have a single carry,
so it's clear that he's kind of become their third
down back that Jalen Warren used to have, and Gamewell
played all those snaps, and we know Jail and Warren
by the way it's a great blocker and pits blitch pickup.
(18:08):
He played all those snaps and and didn't get the ball,
so that that was kind of interesting in and of itself,
you know.
Speaker 5 (18:16):
Rob The funny thing about and again this is this
is not to disparage Kenny Gamewell, because he's played very well,
and I again, I think it's a good piece to
the offense. And we saw in training camp that he
was going to play more than people thought. But the
but the ironic thing about the whole issue is that
he's becoming coming in more on third down because now
(18:38):
Jalen Warren's playing first and second down, and and Jalen
Warren is the better third down back because of his
ability to protect and and so again not to take
anything away from Kenny Gamewell. So what Jalen Warren does
very well, uh it uh, he's not being utilized in
that role. And I get what I get right why
(19:01):
because for the most part, Look, the guy's averaging almost
five yards of carry. He's been very productive, and but
I just think they need to rely on him a
little bit more than the most he's ever you know, again,
this season is eighteen carries and I think there needs
to be games where you know, he's in the twenties
because every running back you hear, every one of them
(19:22):
say they get better as a game goes on, the
more cares they have, the better they are. But again
that goes back to not being not having enough offensive snaps,
not converting third downs for any number of reasons. And
that's why, you know, Mike Tomlins said the other day
when I asked him about the disparity in plays, he said,
(19:42):
in general, the number doesn't bother them, bother him or
concern him, but why they are in those situations is
what concerns him. And that's what I'm talking about. The
inability to convert on third down and make the place
when you have to rights.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
And that's the when I want to get to next.
Jerry Dulac so big that he has two sponsors. He's
also brought to you by your neighborood Forts or the
F one fifties, the official truck of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Jerry,
you know, I was just I was curious about the
the turnover margin that you discussed and went back to
look at it further, and just the snapshot says in
(20:21):
the four games they've lost, they've lost the turnover battle
eight to two. In the five games they've won, they've
won the turnover battle fourteen to two. So I do
think that, you know, back to my earlier premise that
Mike Tomlin coaches the game to win the game, doesn't
worry about putting.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Up a bunch of statistics and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
You know, I don't know whether they would have played
the game differently, in particular against New England and the Colts,
when they won the turnover battle eleven to two, five
to one against New England, six to one against the Colts.
I think, on the one hand, it's easy to say, well,
they don't win those games if they don't get those
(21:06):
turnovers in those sacks. On the other hand, I also
think that they play the game that's presented to them,
and so they're not they're not trying to do too
much beyond just take advantage of those turnovers. Do you
understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 5 (21:21):
Absolutely? And that goes and that goes to and I
think your point is, Rob is that's the way Mike
Tomlin coaches. And so when I hear and I get
the questions whether in chats or on or emails or
whatever or online. The question I get why is the offense.
Why does it look the same. It looks the same
(21:41):
as Matt Cannona. It looks the same as Randy Fittner.
Now I don't think that's entirely true, but I get
their point when you look at them statistically. And the
reason why is because that's the way Mike Tomlin wants
the game to go. He wants you know, he's looking
to win the game however means necessary. But if it's
if it's ten to seven, or thirteen to ten or
(22:03):
sixteen to thirteen, he's perfectly fine with that, And so
he coaches that way. His mentality, his DNA is to
go into a game and operate that way. And so
his coordinators fall in line because you know he you know,
they discuss, okay, what do we want to do? And
his game plans, for the most part is play again.
(22:24):
You hear him talk about all the time, stay on schedule,
stay ahead of the change. As long as you're ahead
of the other guy. He doesn't need you to be
fifty yards ahead or fifty points ahead, as long as
you are ahead. And he coaches that way, and it's
a conservative style of coaching. It has bowed him well
over the years, let's face it. It hasn't vowed well
(22:46):
for him in a postseason of course, as we know.
But it's the way he coaches, and it's the way
his coordinators are going to both coach and call the
game because they operate under his umbrella.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
You know.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
And I totally agree with everything you've said, and I
think that's a good point to be made. The other
point he made during the press conference on Tuesday, I
think is you know, bears a little bit of shining
a little bit of light on is you know. Okay,
So people say, well, you got to have all the
If you don't get all those turnovers, you don't beat
New England, you don't beat the Colts. We don't really
(23:21):
know that for sure. Because you got the turnovers and
won the game. We don't know would have happened had
you not gotten those turnovers. But the other point he
makes is not turning the ball over. So again just
to go back to the wins. Okay, so you look
at the fourteen turnovers, that's the number that's going to
jump out. Hey, this two is at fourteen turnovers in
their five games. They can't win without that. Well they
(23:44):
also if that's your premise, well they've They also only
turned the ball over twice in the four losses. They
turned the ball over eight times. And that's the other
point I think he was making is that, look, the
turnover culture doesn't just mean creating them, it means not
having them yourself. So again, Cincinnati, think about that. It
comes down to a final drive for the Bengals. Well,
(24:05):
you lost a turnover battle two to nothing, right, Green Bay,
you lost about turnover battle one nothing. Chargers you lost
it three nothing. Seattle is technically even two too. But
keep in mind that not covering a kick in the
end zone, which is the turning point of the game,
doesn't count as turnover, right, So you know, not having
those turnovers is an important part also of turnover culture
(24:27):
that has cost them in their losses.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
And rub and it goes back again to the way
Mike Tomlin wants to coach. There's no question he you know,
he preaches that all the time. It's fine if you
take it away, but don't be given it to them.
And so that's the way he wants his quarterbacks to play.
And that's all you have to do. Is go backward
and see the way they play. One of the things
(24:50):
you know that kind of going back to when Bruce
Arians was the offensive coordinator, is they didn't like that daring,
no risk it, no biscuit mentality that Bruce had, even
though he was the best coordinator they've had. Going back
to went right before when Mike, when Kenny wizen Hunt
was there, and of course Bruce Arians replaced Ken wizen Hunt,
(25:11):
and then of course he replaced Mike Malarkey. But Mike
Tomlin does not like to coach that way, and so
they prefer this, you know, the style that you know
that they have that he embraces, and that's the play
a conservative don't turn the ball over. That was a
number one prerequisite for justin Fields, a young quarterback. It's
(25:31):
one of the things didn't get it was It wasn't
what led to Mitch Trubisky being benched, because that's a
whole other issue what transpired then, but that was part
of it. The inability to protect the ball, and so
that was a big thing, you know, was emphasized with
Russell Wilson, and it's why you see Aaron Rodgers throw
the ball on the ground and throw it out of
(25:53):
bounce one. He's a twenty one year veteran, he knows better.
But that's what they do. Throw it away, throw it
in the ground. You know, he heard him say the
other day, you know, with the safety he said, I
should have just thrown it in the ground, and it's
surprising that he didn't when he was trying to avoid
pressure and he bumps into Tanu and loses the ball.
That's the way Mike Tomlin wants to coach, and that's why,
(26:15):
you know, it's a safe way to coach. You could
call it a conservative way to coach, but that's the
way he wants to operate. And it's stressed to the
players and to his you know, his play callers, and
that's just all part of the way he wants to operate.
And he's not going to be a guy who's going
to consistently win games forty to twenty seven. That's just
(26:36):
not his style. Like they have to win that way,
and like the last Cincinnati game, which they lost, but
you saw the way they came back. They'll do it.
But if he has his brothers protect the ball, don't
turn it over, throw it in the ground, throw it
out of bounds and one of his basic mantras it's
okay to punt, and so that's the way he coaches.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
And by the way, Eddie Faulkon's running back coach, works
on that all the time as well, making sure you
don't fumble the ball. In Aaron Rodgers, he has the
guy with the lowest interception rate in NFL history at
the control. So that makes it a good match. And
I know, Harry, you're up against it, but just real quick,
like I couldn't help but think if Aaron Rodgers, if
that had been Aaron rodgers first game, the game against
the Chargers, people will be.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Howling, Oh my goodness, they wont got this old quarterback.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
And I think he's been fantastic for the Steelers. I mean,
I'll way better than I think a lot of people thought.
I think it's the best quarterback play they've had in years.
But I do think he needs to bounce back. And
what is your expectation. First of all, do you agree
with that he needs a bounce back game or that
not he needs one, but you're looking for a bounce
(27:41):
back game, And it was your assessment that that he
didn't play a strong game on Sunday.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
Night in Well, there's no question, and he admits it.
He did not play very well at all. It's his
worst game that he's had since he's been here. Statistically,
you know, is the second worst game in six years,
so it's it was certainly an anomaly for him. I
think what needs to bounce back is the offensive production.
I know, he threw four touchdowns against the Colts, but
(28:09):
he had those takeaways in the short fields. But at
least to his credit and the offensive credit, they capitalized
on those mistakes. But only four hundred and forty twos
four hundred and forty nine yards offense the last two games.
That's the second fewest two game total since twenty nineteen,
and that's where against the poorest defense. You know, they
had their most yards of the season in Cincinnati. They
(28:32):
have to do that and more if you're talking about
a bounce back. But I will say this though, too.
It was just a couple of weeks ago that on
national television Aaron Rodgers convinced everybody with that performance in
Cincinnati that WHOA, this guy still has something left in
his tank. And boy, I think this guy could take
him to the postseason. I don't think anything's changed in
two weeks. Rob, he just did not play well last
(28:55):
week in LA.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Yeah, it's so funny.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
That was my absolute number take one takeaway Nick game
in Cincinnati. Anybody had any doubts, those doubts were put
the rest and then, you know, then we saw what
happened on Sunday nights. So yeah, I don't think that's
the biggest fear for me, Jerry. A reminder Jerry Dulac
is brought to you by Pomador in Wexford three dour
bud light sixteen ounce drafts for all Steeler games. Jerry, thanks,
(29:19):
my friend. I will see you shortly on the South side.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
You got Rob, Good chat Windy, my friend.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
You too, Jerry. Jerry Dulac always a pleasure to have
the cool breeze blown through the locker room of Jerry Dulac.
Stick around. We have more to come in the locker
room before we head to break. We want to remind
you that you can gear up with the latest game data,
sassities at the official Steelers pro shops. Hit the latest
sideline apparel, jerseys, terrible towels, authentic memorabilia and custom exclusives.
(29:47):
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(30:07):
Pro Shop on Steve This Nation Radio a part of
the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
This is in the locker Room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Ford Store.
The F one fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
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Speaker 3 (30:36):
And thanks for being back with us. In the locker room.
We have maca.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Stark's a little under the weather today, but we're going
to Soldier on. We might pop in and check in
with Max. Every now and again. We want to open
up the phone lines to us. We sometimes do here
in the locker room. It's something that we didn't do
earlier in the year, but are getting back to more
and more to uphold the tradition of I guess it
goes back to Touch and Wolf, right, Tounch and Wolf
(31:00):
in the locker room, and then of course Wolf and
Max in.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
The locker room.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
And now want to continue that tradition our phone numbers
four one two nine, nine one three one six asking
you what is your biggest concern heading into this game
against Cincinnati and heading down the stretch of the season
for the Steelers. I know what my number one concern is,
and uh I've sort of mentioned that if you've been
listening over the last several days, and we'll get to
(31:25):
that with you if you want to give us a
call again the phone number four one two nine one
nine one three one six. Also want to let you
know that we will do our AFC preview coming up
a little bit later on in the program, uh, beginning
with Thursday at football then carrying through the weekend. There
are some tremendous football games happening this weekend that are
(31:48):
going to you know, maybe separate who stands where in
the NFL and certainly in the AFC as well.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
UH. We've talked about the power rankings.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
We can you know, touch on those a little bit
later on in the program, as well as it relates
to this weekend's activity. Of course, the game that we're
most concerned about is the Steelers and the Cincinnati Bengals.
A reminder two for those of you who are daily
listeners that coming up tomorrow at ten twenty we will
be joined by Dan Horde, the outstanding play by play
(32:17):
man of the Cincinnati Bengals, to talk about their team
and where they stand. Keep in mind that despite their record,
the Bengals are right in the AFC North. Said that
twice now the AFC North battle because they are only
two games behind the Steelers. And so it goes, you know,
(32:37):
Steelers at five and four, Ravens at four and six,
and the Bengals at our begging part the Bengals the
Ravens at four and five. So the Ravens are one
game behind the Steelers and the Bengals at three and
six are only two games behind the Steelers. But keep
in mind the division records, So that is your first
that is you know, the the you know you have
(32:59):
head to head, but then the vision becomes the big
tie breaker come playoff time. The students are one and
one in the division. Should the Bengals win this game,
the Steelers would be one and two in the division.
That leaves them work ahead with games coming up two
against the Ravens one more against the Cleveland Browns. The
Bengals would be three and oh in the division, three
(33:20):
and oh and one game behind the Steelers and potentially
one game behind the Ravens who have the Browns this week.
So the Bengals, this is a hugely important game. We
talked about going into that Thursday night game that if
you were looking for a desperation factor, that that desperation
factor would lie with the Cincinnati Bengals. The Bengals went
(33:42):
into that game absolutely needing a victory. They had just
traded for Joe Flacco a couple of days before, underscoring
the importance of that game against the Steelers and trying
to bridge the gap to when Joe Burrow might return.
Of course, as you know, Burrow's returned to practice this
week for the Bengals. We'll talk with that about that
with Dan Horde, whether that is giving the team sort
(34:03):
of a psychological boost to knowing that their franchise quarterback
and his return could possibly be right around the corner.
So you know that was a desperate game for the Bengals. Well,
this is the same thing for the Bengals. If you're
the Steelers and you lose this game, you're at least
still tied for the division.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Now.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
I think there's a level of desperation for the Steelers
in this game as well, just trying to get their
season back on track. But if you're the Bengals and
you lose this game, it's hard to envision you really
being in the race. Now you're two games behind. Presumably
if the Ravens take care of business against the Browns,
two games behind the Ravens, three games behind the Steelers,
(34:41):
you now have a division loss.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
So the possibility of you.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Winning, you know, taking a commanding intra division lead, as
far as that record would be concerned, that would falter
a little bit as well. So this is a hugely
important game for the Bengals, but again it is an
awfully important game of the Steelers as well. So again,
just to put in context some of the things about
the Steelers Bengals rematch, you go back to the sixteenth
(35:09):
of October, and the Bengals, desperate for a win, came
back with that elite last drive to defeat the Steelers
thirty three to thirty one, after the long touchdown passed
the Pat Fryarmouth with just over two minutes remaining, had
put the Steelers back in the lead. In that game,
Aaron Rodgers twenty three for thirty four, four touchdowns, he
(35:30):
did throw two interceptions. Joe Flacco thirty one for forty
seven three hundred and forty two yards, three touchdowns, zero interceptions.
Both teams ran the ball very effectively. Not that big
of a surprise for the Steelers to run the ball
well against the Bengals because the running game had come
to life in the previous couple of games for the
(35:51):
Steelers and the Bengals had the worst rush defense in
the NFL. That has continued. By the way, the Bengals
still had the worst rush defense in the NFL. In fact,
it's got worse since that matchup with the Steelers. Jill
and Warren went sixteen for one point twenty seven seven
point nine yards per carry. The biggest shocker I think
in this game between the Steelers and the Bengals was
(36:14):
Chase Brown running eleven times for one hundred and eight
yards nine point eight yards per carry. He'd come in
averaging less than three yards per carry. A guy that
had been a breakout performer the season before for the
Bengals just had been held, had been shackled prior to
that game, and then unshackled himself and got the running
(36:36):
game going. And again that was a little bit of
a factor when you think about the Bengals having everything
at their disposal. Pat Freyermuth was the leading receiver for
the Steelers in that game, five receptions for one hundred
and eleven yards. Jamar Chase sixteen receptions one hundred and
sixty one yards and a touchdown. T Higgins six receptions
ninety eight yards and a touchdown. Since Joe Flack has
(37:00):
been in Cincinnati, Chase has been incredible. Even by Chase's standards,
He's averaging one hundred and twenty one yards per game
receiving and t. Higgins has four touchdown receptions in the
three games.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
With Flakka at the helm.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
So keep in mind that the passing game has been
going still and it continued against the Jets that game
that they lost thirty nine to thirty eight, and then
with steinied a little bit against the Bears, but they
still put up over thirty eight points against the Bears
in that loss. I think it's important for the Steelers
in this game to take away Brown, don't allow the
(37:38):
Bengals to have everything at their disposal like they did
in Week one.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Eliminate something.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
It is very, very difficult to eliminate Jamar Chase, but
I don't think you can have Chase n Higgins And
keep in mind the tight end receptions, especially when it
comes to touchdown receptions that's been an issue for the Steelers.
Was an issue in that game because Noah Fant caught
a touchdown pass as well. Although it was a very
wide receiver centric attack by Joe Flacco and the Bengals
(38:07):
in that game, Fant still did get in the end zone.
And so that's something that the Steelers are going to
also have to keep an eye on in this game.
So once again, UH, we are going to open up
the phone lines to you. The phone number is four
one two nine one nine one three one six. What
are your biggest concerns for the Steelers heading into this
game and down the stretch. That's what we're asking you
(38:30):
to chime in on here in the locker room. Four
one two nine one nine one three, one six the
phone number to dial. We will continue in the locker room,
presented by your neighborhood Forward Store and the Steelers Pro
Shop on Steelers Nation Radio, a part of the Steelers
Audio Network
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