October 17, 2023 • 35 mins
What if you could master the art of understanding your dog's behavior, especially when they are in pain? We've got you covered in our enlightening conversation about a fascinating study conducted in 2020, which explores the relationship between pain and reactivity in our four-legged companions. We delve into the critical understanding of how aversive tools like prong collars, choke chains, and shock collars can lead to unnecessary discomfort and enhanced reactivity in dogs. Let's also demystify the common mistake of labeling reactivity as the main issue even before ruling out medical causes.
We can never underestimate the power of a dog's environment on their behavior. Imagine your fur friend developing negative associations because they experienced pain in the past. This episode allows us to take a journey through the dog's perspective and understand how we can help them overcome their past traumas. We share intriguing case studies of dogs manifesting different behaviors due to underlying pain or discomfort. This discussion will surely prompt you to be more observant of minor changes in your dog's behavior.
Finally, we underscore the importance of medical considerations when it comes to evaluating dogs' behaviors. It's crucial that we get our dogs thoroughly checked by a vet before concluding that behavioral issues are the main cause of their actions. As part of our commitment to your dog's well-being, we provide information on how you can avail a free 15-minute consultation if your dog is showing signs of pain or reactivity. This episode is all about ensuring your canine companion's comfort and well-being while helping you make informed decisions. So, tune in and let's work together to improve the lives of our cherished pets.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Everybody welcome to a podcast for dog people.
I'm John and I'm Jamie and weare your personal dog experts.
We're here to help you betterunderstand your dogs in the wide
spectrum of behaviors theyexhibit, so join us on this
journey to learn everything dog.
Welcome to another episode ofthe podcast for dog people by
(00:20):
Paulson University.
Today we are gonna be talkingabout when discomfort breeds
defensiveness.
It's the topic of the week forour content.
You want to talk a little bithow we're doing our content
differently, moving forward,starting this week.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yes, so we kind of turned over a new leaf and we're
gonna really attempt to makethis happen.
I know, in the past if you'vebeen listening for a while since
we kind of first started thisin 2016 John and I are really
bad at staying on a schedule.
We just we've we've neverreally been successful at it,
but we are really gonna try anddo Whatever we can to make it
work for ourselves.
(00:53):
So I came up with this reallyawesome idea.
Well, really, I have gameGraham Cochran to thank.
I listened to get paid for whatyou know, and he talked about
content buckets and namedropping.
I am I because I'm gonna youknow.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I have to.
I need my caffeine.
Hold on, okay, as you were okay, so content buckets.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I basically took all the topics that we usually talk
about and now, each week, we aregoing to Cover one topic, and
it's gonna be all of our reels,all of our posts, the YouTube,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
So if you head over to our Instagram app, awesome
universal, you'll see what we'retalking about.
So today's topic, well, thisweek's topic is all about Can
pain cause reactivity or isreactivity a symptom of pain?
Yes, so you'll notice, if wecheck out over at our Instagram
and our YouTube, we put out areal today talking about a Study
(01:48):
that's out there that waspublished in 2020, that kind of
dives a little deeper into theconnection between pain and
reactivity and some othersymptoms and kind of like
explores that and Validates whatwe've kind of known for a long
time, just because we're humansand we know what it's like to
feel pain and how that affectsour emotions.
But, yes, that does translateover to Dogs and cats.
(02:10):
The study also covered cats,but for dogs, yeah, it's just
interesting because they can'ttell us.
Like I wrote up the blog postthat I wrote that's gonna come
out tomorrow.
It's all about, obviously, pain, and I start off like really
talking about like do youremember last time you had a
toothache?
And I know you've neveractually had a toothache You've
like had, like I don't know.
(02:31):
I, because I take good care ofmy teeth All right.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I've never had a cavity.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
That's not how it works.
That's not how I'm very lucky.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I never had a cavity.
My genetics are good.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Some people and dogs, just genetically, are
predisposed to cavities.
I believe it's called carriesdisease, which is where the
bacteria will eat away at yourteeth cats, especially cats,
have horrible teeth.
Yeah, yeah, and so do I.
That's why I've always said thedentist, no matter how many
times I brush.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
So if you have a, toothache, right, you don't like
I said you don't know what it'slike, but for listeners I have
tooth pain.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Okay, you don't know.
You don't know like you need aroot canal.
Okay, you're right that thatwill literally ruin your day.
It will ruin.
I know I've seen your day.
It will ruin your week untilyou can get.
You can get to the dentist andget it Calm down, maybe that's
why you were so angry.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
When I met you, you said so many, so many teeth
problems.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
You're nice, I appreciate that Appreciate it
very much.
You're welcome.
No, I'm still angry.
Um no, I'm still angry.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Uh, unrelated.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So you know, if you've ever had a toothache or
any other pain, you know how toaffect your mood.
You're not in a great mood,you're irritable, you don't want
to deal with people, you can'tfocus all you're thinking.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
You would normally be Tolerant of your or embracing
away from me.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, so you can say, hey, I'll talk to me.
I got a toothache, your dogcan't say that, so you got on a
walk and all of a sudden yourdog is super reactive to another
dog, not like them, liketotally.
This is totally new behaviorand a lot of people and they
reach out to us too Like we'vehad clients reach out and
they'll just immediately assumethat okay, the reactivity is the
(04:16):
problem and they're not lookingat the reactivity as a symptom
of another problem.
And that's why we always talkabout Ruling out medical things
first.
Yeah and it's just reallyinteresting to see the role that
pain plays.
And it's really interestingwhen, when you start to look at
it through the lens of what, ifit's us, that's causing the pain
in those moments, man, by thatI mean like a verse of tools and
(04:41):
that's well.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
They go hand in hand.
Why are they any different?
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Whether it's medical or something else is the cause
of the pain.
It doesn't matter, they're inthe same category.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, and when I say a verse of tools, I mean prong
collars, the, the choke chainsthat are gonna collapse on the
trachea, a shock collars,ecollars, that kind of anything,
a leash pop, anything that'sgoing to cause any level of
discomfort, and Anybody thattells you prong collars don't
hurt, shock collars don't hurtjust a vibration.
(05:12):
It wouldn't work if it didn'thurt.
It hurts, and it may not be.
Every dog's got a differentpain tolerance.
It may not be excruciating, butit's enough.
It's enough to it's like thattoothache that's just always
there.
It's enough to affect Emotionsand it's enough to create
negative associations with newthings.
So as we Unravel this topic ofdiscomfort and defensiveness and
(05:37):
reactivity and pain, I want tokind of look at it through this
lens on this podcast and look atthe lens of Utilizing these a
verse of tools and what theconsequences might be.
I'm gonna hand it off to you.
Oh are you not ready?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
to talk, you know, you just want me to carry this
whole thing here, we're, we're,we're coming off of a Little
rough morning a little dramaagain trying to get on a
schedule, trying to getproductive and really make the
time when our Two kids are outof the house.
I had a whole plan, everythingwas scheduled out and I go to do
(06:10):
our rehab dogs right before wedo this podcast and One of them.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Not gonna name names, I want to hurt his chances of
being adopted.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
One of them has really bad separation anxiety to
the extent we were unaware.
He's been with us for over aweek and he has not done this.
This was new.
But he had only been alone fortwo hours.
You did him at eight o'clock inthe morning and I literally
went at ten and I'm walking tothe barn door and I hear her
crying and I'm like what?
(06:41):
What does that sound so close?
And I look down to the rightside of the barn, right next to
the door, and there is a hole.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
There is a store.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
There is a borough hole a Borough into his kennel
and I see his feet.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
He ripped through.
He ripped through the turf,through through the stone sub
base.
He ripped up the two by eight.
That frames out the floor ofthe barn.
He ripped through everythingand then dug through and he did
it.
I looked at the camera.
He did it in 25 minutes.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So I'm not even mad.
I'm so impressed, but I'm alsoa little frazzled right now.
So yeah, so that's our brainsare a little off at this moment
in time.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
We're gonna have to do some sheet metal and I'm
gonna have to dig down theentire perimeter of that kennel.
It's gonna be a thirst up,gonna have to be the separation
anxiety kennel.
Yeah, we're just gonna have todrop sheet metal like two to
three feet down on all corners.
So yeah, well, I'm a littledistracted now.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
All the ideas and things went out of the brain.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
So let's talk about this topic.
Yes aversive tools.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah, you're not a fan well, no, not at all,
because I mean we were literallyI was literally just on the
phone with the dog that we werejust talking about his Rescue
and we were talking about and wegot off off topic, off of him,
and we were talking about dogsin general and Training and she
is all about positivereinforcement.
(08:06):
She loves that's.
That's what John and I do, andit's really hard to find board
and trains that do that.
And we were talking about howshe got a dog from a fighting
ring.
There was 14 dogs that werepulled.
They took one of them and herdog is the only one that's still
alive, because all the otherrescues that pulled the other
dogs use a verse of training andthey all didn't make it out
alive.
They needed to be euthanizedand it's no surprise that her
(08:29):
dog is still living and he's ina home.
They didn't they didn't attemptto do any meets with adopters
until eight months after havinghim, because, like we, she's
like we had to rehabilitate himfirst.
We didn't rush him, we didn'tjust try and throw corrections
on his behavior.
We let him decompress and wegave him a loving environment,
even though he was in a kennelwith us.
I mean, their rescue basicallytreats these dogs like gold in
(08:52):
their kennels and they'll go,you know, to the volunteers
homes for the days.
They bring them back.
And he's the only one that'sstill alive and you're not gonna
tell me that's a coincidence.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
You're not gonna tell you that's a large sample size.
If it was like two dogs and oneof them had to be euthanized.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
You could just say well, they're different dogs.
He's the only one that's alive.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Come on right.
So you know they, like I said,that goes hand in hand, whether
it's medical or it's somethingthat's done to the dog.
There is a reason why thoseaversive tools work in the
moment, but what they do longterm is what people are not
understanding.
Everybody wants a quick fix inthis environment and I'm just.
I'm so exhausted by it.
Nobody wants to actually put inthe work, even with themselves,
(09:35):
right, like nobody wants to goto therapy because they don't
want to have to do the work I'd.
I'd rather suppress all theseemotions and Just try and live
my day.
Yeah it's the same thing withour dogs we just want to shut
them up and have them sit thereand be perfect little angels,
and that's not how this works.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Just like kids.
Yeah gotta put the work in.
If you want an awesome kid, youneed to be an awesome parent.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, but I do think that there's a large majority of
people that are using thesetools that Aren't doing so to
take the easy way out.
They're doing so because theydon't have any other means to
control them, or they justthey're not educated.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, they haven't found the right trainer, they
haven't found the right peopleto support them.
Like I have tons of clientsthat come to me, you know, for
your free eval call and theytell me you know how they were
raised and how their parentshandled their dogs growing up
and they're like I don't want todo that, but no, I have nobody
around me supporting me righteven have like one partner come
(10:31):
to me for the eval call and theother Partner partner is on a
completely different spectrum ofhow they want to train Mm-hmm
and it's getting everybody onboard and that's that's
difficult sometimes.
So, yes, I agree, I thinkthere's a lot of people out
there that are using these,these tools, and they don't,
they don't want to, but theydon't know what else to do.
Mm-hmm and that seems to be thestruggle of like, how do I get
(10:53):
away from this?
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, successfully if you're hearing mouth noises
because we have Duke up hereright now and he's Going to town
on a popsicle.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
He can no longer be left alone.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
He'll make his way over to the bully stick.
Yeah, okay, so what you'resaying is basically what we're
saying is that a prong collarcan cause reactivity.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, just think about it, if Let me give it like
a real-life human example Allright, now, let's, let's use
children, because I always usethe kids.
Let's say every single time oh,jj are almost four year old
sees a kid that he doesn'tessentially love, they just
don't, they don't jive right,and Every single time JJ is
(11:42):
around this kid and he showsemotion like telling me mommy, I
don't want to go play with him.
I don't want to do this whateverand I'm like go play with him,
go be his friend, or I hit himto make him go and play with
that kid.
Would that ever change the waythat JJ feels about this child?
To make it positive, to makehim like this kid?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
It's no way.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
No right, he'd be like I never want to be around
this kid ever, because my mom,who loves me every other day and
would never do that to me, allof a sudden is now hitting me
and forcing me and yelling at meanytime this particular child
is around.
She doesn't do it when all theother kids are around, all the
kids that I like, right.
So it's not essentially for himas a toddler to understand that
(12:27):
it's his behavior that ismaking me do what I'm doing,
because we all think if I yellat you enough or I give you more
discomfort, you'll eventuallystop the behavior that you're
expressing.
And that's not how dogs workand that's not how kids work.
So if we want our dogs to trulyDo what we want them to do and
(12:47):
be social and be happy, healthydogs, which is really all what
we really want- that's really,at the end of the day, that what
we want, because a happy andhealthy dog will actually give
you exactly what you're lookingfor.
If we want that, we have to givethem the tools to get to that
end goal, which currently, ifyou are using a prong or a shock
other, you are not giving themthose tools.
(13:07):
You are giving them a playingfield to say this sucks, and I
don't like it.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
So what about a scenario where and I'll take it
back to JJ and human children,toddlers, kids?
What about a scenario where helikes the other person but every
time he works with that otherperson or hangs out with that
other person, like I'm thinkingfrom a dog's perspective of like
Figure, someone's walking avery friendly dog on on a prong
(13:35):
collar and every time they cross, just like they see another dog
across the street, they want togo and they want to play and
they're kind of like pullingthat way and jumping reactive.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
They already.
They're already at a goodplaying field of wanting to play
and be happy.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Right, like they're just on a prong collar because
they pull a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, the owner was a negative behavior.
Yeah, okay, that's saying.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
That could turn to reactivity.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Oh yeah.
Now why because if that dog iswalking and sees this dog and is
so excited, again they're notunderstanding that they have low
impulse control.
They're pulling and they'resuper excited and they're all
over the place to the pointwhere the the parent has to put
them on a Prong collar tocontrol them.
They are unaware that what theyare physically doing is
upsetting their pet parent.
Like they're not.
They're not doing it to you.
(14:19):
I think that's a really bigthing too.
Like your dog is not purposelytrying to embarrass you or make
it difficult for you to walkthem.
Like they are Blissfullyunaware that you are not having
fun.
They think everyone's having agreat time.
So they see that dog andthey're like oh yes, this is so
great.
And then all of a sudden, nowthere's pain.
There's pain and yelling andthey're like oh my god, wait,
maybe dogs really are bad.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Our dog, or at least anytime I see this dog or a dog
across the street, I'm in pain.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, that's why it's the same thing.
You know we always talk aboutour dogs and babies.
Online course is a big topicthat we discuss is if, when that
kid comes around, that babycomes into the play, you better
not yell at your dog, Regardlessof what behavior they give you,
because they will associatewith your child and by doing so,
you are actually putting yourchild in danger by doing that,
because your dog is gonna belike well, what changed?
(15:06):
This baby showed up and Iactually liked the baby, right,
maybe I wanted to sniff the babyand I was super excited.
And now I'm getting yelled at.
Yeah who's the problem?
The baby's the only thing thatchanged.
I've been this happy andexcited my whole life and has
never been a problem until now,right?
So we have to understand thathow we act and and react to
certain situations is Portrayingto our dogs a very different
(15:30):
thing than what then what we'reintending.
It's our thought process thatis skewed.
We have to think how they think.
That's.
That's my number one advice topeople is if you are confused
about what you're doing and whyyou're doing it, you have to
understand that.
To change it, you have to thinkhow your dog is thinking.
How are they what?
What is coming in their brainfrom this?
(15:52):
when you do this.
What do they think?
Not what you're trying to tellthem, right, like, even with
parenting, like we're strugglingwith JJ right now.
He's in that, that like phaseof like being rebellious and and
, and I've been trying to remindmyself like if I say things a
thousand times and his behaviorisn't changing, it's not him,
it's how I'm saying it.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
I need to change the way that I am saying it.
So if you are continuouslydoing the same exact methods
over and, over and over againand nothing is changing, you
have to look at yourself and say, okay, what, what may be, what
my dog is thinking from thislike what am.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I actually saying here yeah, yeah, then is it ever
like too late, you think, Tochange those?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
well, no, never, I mean, we've worked with dogs so
much older, like old, old dogs13.
I mean.
Look at Tishi, tishi, we got itnine.
She hated cats.
Now the three dogs in the house, she's the one who loves the
cat the most.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
She's a term pink because she's a white pity and
she's to turn pink and likepants dress her mouth to turn
red.
She'd be so stressed like Ijust got it.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I just gotta eat it one time that Salem came in the
house without the dogs beinglocked up and I didn't know it,
I was on a that's cuz the doordidn't close the door closed.
The wind blew open.
Salem Just came in.
She's like oh, guys left thedoor open for me and Tishi
pounced on her and thankfullydidn't do anything to her.
But now they're in, they loveeach other.
She kisses Salem.
So, yes, and she was nine atthe time, so you can make a lot
(17:18):
of changes.
Tishi lived outside.
I'm sure she's killed many catsto survive, probably you know.
So when I look at her I'm like,wow, like she really, because
we just gave her a really lovingenvironment and I never
reprimanded her for any behaviorthat she exhibited towards
Salem.
I let her Figure it out and Igave them, both of them, a
really good clink, because catscan kind of be a little
(17:40):
Teppermintal with this.
Thankfully, salem was very openand trusted John and I to hold
her in these situations and not,you know, scream and run off.
Duke is.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Want the bully stick for some reason the bully to
high value for you.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Buddy, if you want to refill his popsicle, I have the
balls right there.
Yeah, so really it really comesdown to no, it's never too late
.
You can absolutely undo whathas been done.
That's what we do on a dailybasis.
My sessions is mostly talkingto people who wanna undo the
(18:15):
training that's been done before.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Mm-hmm, interesting yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I mean-.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
When you brought up the topic of is reactivity a
symptom of pain, it didn'tinitially jump out at me to
think about aversive tools andthe roles that they play.
But if, scientifically, we knowthat pain is linked to
reactivity and other undesiredbehaviors, why wouldn't an
aversive tool that is intendedto produce discomfort, why
(18:45):
wouldn't it yield the sameresults?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I know it just makes so much sense when you put it on
paper and nobody wants tobelieve it, it doesn't it drive
you a little bit insane?
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yes, like Duke, would you like to say anything to?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
the audience.
Dukey boy, I'm ashamed.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Did you hear a little sniffles?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, he's so cute.
He really does remind me ofOakley so much, like when we
first got.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Oakley, he was-.
Get down from there, you crazyboy.
He's on the table.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Go boy, buddy, get down.
Yes, go boy, there's a good boy.
Oh, tailwags, there's a goodboy, go lay down baba, I'll give
him another calming pop.
Yeah Well, I wanna kinda segueinto like more medical stuff too
, like there are a lot ofmedical issues that people don't
realize right?
Do you remember, honey, when weworked with that other rescue
(19:31):
and she oh yeah, with the stumppyome, what did she have?
Yeah, she had a, what was itcalled?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
A stump pyometra.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
When she was spayed, they left behind the stump, so-.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
A little bit of the uterus.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, a little bit of her uterus, right.
So they spayed her, whatever.
And she was this Cocker Spanish.
She was a little feisty thatwhen we met her, that's what we
were told.
She's feisty, she'll bite you.
You gotta watch out for her.
She gives no warnings, yada,yada.
So all true, yes, all true.
They weren't wrong about that,but I was like, but why, though?
Right, like, what's the problem?
So they got her into foster andI'm looking at her.
(20:06):
I came over a couple of timesworking with her and I'm like
she really licks her hoo-haquite a bit.
Like a lot, like more than anaverage dog should.
Okay, take her to the vet.
I mean, the vet really like hadto give a thorough exam and she
was not feeling it.
Let me tell you that she was onantibiotics.
For what a year To try and Onand off.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, they had to go back in the UTI just kept coming
and coming in and they finallythey give us people for animals
or something.
The PFA I think they're theones they're spaying you to a
clinic are the ones that foundthe stump.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
And said hey, she needs another surgery.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
They missed something here.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yep.
So she was in an immense amountof pain for a long period of
time where it just became thisnormalcy like this was her and
it's not Right, like if you were.
I mean, you remember before Ihad my neck surgery, wasn't I
miserable like 90% of the time?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And it's like that was becoming my personality and
you were getting almostdesensitized to it, like this
was just who I was and inreality you forget I'm in an
immense amount of pain 24 seven,like of course I'm gonna be
pissed off all the time.
So when we look at our dogs wehave to say, okay, are we
missing something?
What's?
Look at the little things.
The other one is solo myCalifornia client.
(21:21):
He was guarding biting afterlike six months of having him
bliss right.
He had a ruptured eardrum, had aruptured eardrum and was
showing an immense amount ofreactivity.
I mean he's still working on,I'm still working with him today
.
His life kind of changed up alittle bit, but in a different
way.
But you know, once they fixedthe eardrum he had to have
surgery too.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
You know, like I got one that's a little closer to
home, that you somehow didn'teven realize.
Pajolina, remember she wasgoing through that phase of like
.
Didn't want us to touch hersnapping at us Maybe.
No, a few months ago she wasweird, she wasn't eating, and
what?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
was it.
She was very irritable, Lookyou remember.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
She had a slab fracture of one of her molars.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Oh my God, I totally forgot yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah, so she wasn't letting us touch her.
She didn't wanna play, she justlaid down all day.
She didn't wanna eat, she wasgrowling all the time she will
feisty to begin with.
She's a bitch.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
And her genetics are crap, but still like it was more
off than usual.
Yeah, and she will like.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
It took a little while because I couldn't really
like get my hands in her mouthand I really wasn't thinking and
there was one night she wasreally calm and you kind of you
were like oh my God she has afracture, clean slab fracture.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
And it's so funny too , because most chihuahuas have
really bad teeth genetically,like they've gotta get like a
couple of.
I mean you see the chihuahuasat 16 years old the teeth are
falling out of their face, buther teeth have always been
really great.
Our vet has always said she'sgot fabulous teeth for her age
she's seven.
So it wasn't like I mean shehad the cleaning anyway.
They obviously took that toothand cleaned her up, but I mean
(22:58):
she was in really good shaperegardless.
But yeah, like things like that, like fractured teeth and you
don't know, and anything likeinjuries to the paw and between
the paw pads, where they won'tlet you do it, and just weird,
weird things that pop up that weneed to start paying more
attention to, because if wedon't we can really drastically
miss something.
(23:18):
What else?
Yeah, ear infections are a bigone.
Those are probably UTIs and earinfections, I feel like are the
two most missed in my opinion,utis for sure or joint pain too,
because you can't really seethat other than maybe hip
dysplasia, and they're likethey're lagging.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
You'll see it in the gait, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
But that's not in your face because you can get
used to that right.
Like if you're around that 24seven, you don't pick up on it,
it just becomes what you see.
So you're not really realizingthere's a difference versus
waking up with a broken leg Likeyou're like oh okay, I can't
walk on my leg.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
And they're limping, you mean like it just progresses
.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, it just progresses.
So you're unaware that they'rein pain.
But they could, like our olderdogs, people say, oh, they're
just old and grumpy, like theymay be in pain, right.
So that's what we always say goto your vet, see what's going
on.
Let them do a thorough physicalexam.
If your dog does not like to betouched by the vet, you need to
do muscle training to keepeverybody safe and keep your dog
desensitized to that and keepthem in a really good way with
(24:11):
their muscle and not bepetrified of it.
So do that at least.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
14 days prior, for sure, it's vet tech week two, so
let's protect our vet techs.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yes, let's protect our vet techs.
Um, shout out to DD.
But yeah, like the, this needsto happen, like we need to, and
there's this is a lot of thingstoo.
It's a struggle because youknow vet care is expensive.
A lot of vets charge a lot ofmoney, so people try to avoid
going to vets at all costsunless there's something really
wrong.
So like going in and saying,hey, I don't know if there's
(24:41):
something wrong, but can you doit Doesn't sound very appetizing
to most pet parents at a dropof a hat when everybody's
struggling for money.
So I get it.
But if you really think thatyour dog's reactivity or just
overall grumpiness on a dailybasis could be something pain
related, it's time to go and getthat checked out.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, and if you want to get better at identifying
these kinds of things, becausethere's so many, obviously so
many things that can go wrongfrom biology perspective and
medical perspective, so we havea course for you.
We do that's all I'm gonna throwit in there From our advanced
pet first aid and CPR class.
Picture this you're equippedwith a life saving skills.
(25:22):
In any emergency, you're thehero who leaps into action,
ensuring your first friendsreceive the best care possible.
Become certified in as littleas three and a half hours,
entirely online, now endorsed bythe National Association of
Professional Pet Sitters.
We are working on getting ourCEU endorsement with IAABC.
So if you do take it and youare an IAABC member, just let us
(25:44):
know and once we get those CEUsapproved, we will get you CEUs
issued.
But this covers everythinganatomy A lot of other classes
don't really cover anatomy,especially not physiology.
You'll leave this course withthe firm grasp on canine and
feline anatomy and physiology.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Like science class, but you actually will like it.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Yeah, it's a little easy to digest and take what you
need.
You're gonna develop a keen eyeto develop the skills necessary
to identify medical emergenciesearly and act quickly.
And that also rolls into thisof like, noticing when little
things are off, noticing whenthe gate's off, noticing they're
licking their lips weirdbecause they broke a tooth.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Yeah, look at that.
Like things like that.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
That tooth is broken and you know what a broken tooth
looks like.
Ready for anything, whetherit's severe trauma, illness,
poisoning you'll be ready torespond.
This includes CPR as well.
And then, the biggest thing,nobody else is offering this
lifetime access.
Receive lifetime access,including future updates and
revisions.
Free recertification every twoyears.
This is the last pet first aidcourse you'll ever buy Personal
(26:43):
certification card included Onceyou pass the test.
We mail it out to you.
So, yeah, head over topossumuniversitycom forward,
slash pet first aid If you wannalearn more about that course,
or just possumuniversitycom andnavigate your way in the menu to
the pet first aid course.
But that is going to be thebest way if you really wanna
develop the skills to pick up onthese little things that you
(27:06):
know when you catch early savesyou a lot of headache and saves
your pet a lot of discomfort.
It's the way to go.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Is there anything else you'd like to talk about
today?
If not, I think that's a wrapon this episode.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I think so too.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Let's give like one or two actionable things, one or
two takeaways from today'sepisode.
My God, he's really going totown on that.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
He likes the popsicle .
Speaker 1 (27:36):
For me, one of the actionable things to take away
is just that you should bereally cautious of what methods
you are using when you're takingyour dogs out on walks or when
they're interacting.
Be very mindful of whatassociations you may be creating
Accidentally, accidentally.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Well, I have a lot of people that say to me I only
use a prong collar because mydog pulls.
Well, like you said, you can becreating negative associations
without the intent of doingsomething.
You're not even givingcorrections, but your dog is so
excited that they're pulling andthey're choking themselves.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
That's the problem is that you're not just causing
Discomfort in the short term,you're causing it in the long
term because you're creatingthese associations which will
lead to fear.
Your dog doesn't understandthat it's a collar around their
neck.
They're thinking that it'swhatever the stimulus is that
they are reacting to, and surethey may get to a point where
they stop Reacting, because whenthey react they get pain, but
it doesn't mean they're notfeeling those emotions.
(28:32):
So that's one actionabletakeaway is to be very mindful
of what you're doing as far asusing those aversa tools or
what's what's happening on thewalk when these new behaviors
are servicing you got anythingfor us?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
I think really the medical stuff.
Like obviously I talk aboutprong colors and shot colors
every day, but the medical stuffis something it's like the
beginning of my sessions.
I'm always saying like do wethink Anything else is going?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
on.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
We have to.
We have to go down that routebecause it is so.
It is so common that we missthese things, and Can you
imagine not being able to talkand being in immense pain and
not being able to say it andnobody cares to look for it?
Yeah, do you know?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
what I mean.
Like not, I wouldn't even saynobody cares, it's just not
thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, like it's we get.
What's the equivalent of likenose-blind, like what's the
Fabrice commercial?
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Just like autopilot just autopilot.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
You just you know blinders on, you don't even see
it.
So it's really time to Look atyour dog and say, okay, what's
going on?
You're like with Pudge there'sso many times because she's and
because of what we do.
I always laugh, because whenanything happens to our three
dogs I Get so emotional and it'sit's different when it's your
own dog.
You have to take your emotionsout of it.
So with Pudge and her teeth, Ireally said to John like for a
(29:47):
week prior to figuring out herto those, like something is
wrong.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, we knew, we just didn't know what it was,
and I think we were even.
We were like checking to see ifshe had a UTI.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
We were like cuz I thought she was going outside
more often or needing to go out.
You know, literally Pudge islike outside like twice a day.
She's like now I'm good in bed,but like she was definitely
going out more often, I was likeshe drinking more water.
I was trying to figure it out.
I didn't even suspect the teeth, because she's not a Marobon
fan.
She doesn't like the frozenstuff, the really all she.
All she likes is bully sticks.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Well, at the end of the day, so we've never really.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I have no idea what she might have broken on,
because she doesn't do theMarobon, she doesn't chew
anything hard although she'llrandomly pick up a yak bone and
that could do it.
I wonder now here it is live onthe podcast.
We're figuring this out.
I wonder if she picked up a bigyak bone and Jumped up either
onto the better, onto the couch,and got rejected.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
She helped yourself and like yeah, you know maybe
she's so tiny she's only like 11pounds.
Yes, baby.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
So and she's expensive, delicate little
flower, don't say she'sexpensive.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
knock on wood, she is our least child Okay, she's she
and Oakley's just monthly ontheir medications.
In general she's on like acarprofen protocol because she's
like her bones are all brittle,and then Oakley, with these is
a large enlarged heart.
He's on Viagra, not even a jokeand know if you're thinking
(31:10):
what everybody thinks.
Now they don't have thosereceptors.
No, but it was really funnywhen the cardiologist told us
not to worry about that.
Yeah, he got a good cat of that.
I'm sure he says that dailypeople worry, all right.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
So I think the most important takeaway for the topic
this week is that never, ever,assume that a behavior issue is
rooted in behavior.
You should always rule out amedical issue because pain and
discomfort it can really cause alot of things.
So always take a step back.
I was like to say zoom thatlens out and look at what's
(31:42):
going on, look at the contacts,look at, look at everything
about your dog and say, alright,this is a new behavior, what
changed?
And kind of give him a goodOnce over.
If you really can't figure itout, just take him to the vet,
say, hey, we have this newbehavior that surface and your
vets not gonna think you'recrazy if you do this.
Say Go to the vet, set up anappointment.
They say what's the problemtoday?
What do you hear for?
Today?
You say this new behaviorsurface and I want to rule out
(32:05):
anything medical.
They're gonna know.
Check for near infection.
They're gonna know.
Check for UTI.
They're gonna know.
Do you know palpate joints,check for pain.
They're there to help you soleverage that.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
I will say if your vet is hesitant to do a checkup
Because maybe your dog slightlyreactive, you need to find a new
vet.
That's okay.
If they don't want to do that,that's obviously their boundary.
But you need to make sure thatyour dog gets the the care that
it needs and a vet that's goingto be okay With dealing with a
reactive dog.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah, they need to be a on your team, a team member.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
They're part of your team but if they're hesitant and
they don't want to see your dog, they're like all, they're
probably fine, that is.
That is not an okay response.
Okay, and you need to find avet that's gonna be okay and
work with your dog.
There are a lot of vets outthere not a lot, I would say.
There's a small handful thatare very good with dogs like
that and you need to find those,those vets you know, ask your
(32:59):
town Facebook groups which vetsare are really good with dogs
who have reactivity and don'tlike to be touched like.
Give me your recommendationsFind those good vets, get on
their schedule and and just Dowhat you got to do, because if
you're, if your vet is hesitant,we can miss something huge and
and that could be a really a bigfactor- you could always just
(33:19):
go to fear free pets calm.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Fear free pets, calm.
And that's the the fear freecertified Directory and find a
vet on the fear free list andthey're there nine times out of
ten, maybe even ten times out often.
They're gonna be the ones thatare more understanding, are
gonna take a more gentleapproach and you're gonna take
their time and not rush throughThings.
So, fear free pets calm.
Look for the.
(33:43):
There's like two or threedifferent search boxes one for
trainers, one for pets Itters.
I think, yeah, three, one forvets and vet tax search and and
find yourself.
If you are in the market for anew vet, find yourself a fear
free one yep.
All right, so we have for thisepisode.
Please follow us on Instagram.
At posthum University, youcould check out our shorts in
our YouTube videos over onYouTube If you enjoyed this
(34:06):
podcast and you want to rate usfive stars.
If you're living listening onApple music and I believe
Spotify allows Reviews now- oh,do they that's new nice, we got
a.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
we got a couple like 11, 11 or 12 five star reviews
on spot Very nice Thanks y'all,that's a new feature, I guess if
you are questioning your dog'sbehavior and what's going on and
you're interested in possiblydoing one-on-one training with
us, reach out.
Sign up for a free eat alcohol.
It's 15 minutes where you getto talk to me and I will tell
(34:36):
you what I think about your dogand your situation and what
would be best for you.
If it's in your price range andwhat that looks like, right, we
have payment plans if that is.
You know it's 15 minutes ofyour life that's for free, that
you can just get a good idea ofwhere you're at and what is
necessary for your family tosucceed, and we're here for that
.
So sign up for that call.
Oh yeah, definitely free it'snot gonna lose, it's literally
(34:58):
free.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
All right until next week class dismissed.
Everybody welcome to a podcast for dog people.
I'm John and I'm Jamie and weare your personal dog experts.
We're here to help you betterunderstand your dogs in the wide
spectrum of behaviors theyexhibit, so join us on this
journey to learn everything dog.
Welcome to another episode ofthe podcast for dog people by
(00:20):
Paulson University.
Today we are gonna be talkingabout when discomfort breeds
defensiveness.
It's the topic of the week forour content.
You want to talk a little bithow we're doing our content
differently, moving forward,starting this week.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yes, so we kind of turned over a new leaf and we're
gonna really attempt to makethis happen.
I know, in the past if you'vebeen listening for a while since
we kind of first started thisin 2016 John and I are really
bad at staying on a schedule.
We just we've we've neverreally been successful at it,
but we are really gonna try anddo Whatever we can to make it
work for ourselves.
(00:53):
So I came up with this reallyawesome idea.
Well, really, I have gameGraham Cochran to thank.
I listened to get paid for whatyou know, and he talked about
content buckets and namedropping.
I am I because I'm gonna youknow.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I have to.
I need my caffeine.
Hold on, okay, as you were okay, so content buckets.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I basically took all the topics that we usually talk
about and now, each week, we aregoing to Cover one topic, and
it's gonna be all of our reels,all of our posts, the YouTube,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
So if you head over to our Instagram app, awesome
universal, you'll see what we'retalking about.
So today's topic, well, thisweek's topic is all about Can
pain cause reactivity or isreactivity a symptom of pain?
Yes, so you'll notice, if wecheck out over at our Instagram
and our YouTube, we put out areal today talking about a Study
(01:48):
that's out there that waspublished in 2020, that kind of
dives a little deeper into theconnection between pain and
reactivity and some othersymptoms and kind of like
explores that and Validates whatwe've kind of known for a long
time, just because we're humansand we know what it's like to
feel pain and how that affectsour emotions.
But, yes, that does translateover to Dogs and cats.
(02:10):
The study also covered cats,but for dogs, yeah, it's just
interesting because they can'ttell us.
Like I wrote up the blog postthat I wrote that's gonna come
out tomorrow.
It's all about, obviously, pain, and I start off like really
talking about like do youremember last time you had a
toothache?
And I know you've neveractually had a toothache You've
like had, like I don't know.
(02:31):
I, because I take good care ofmy teeth All right.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I've never had a cavity.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
That's not how it works.
That's not how I'm very lucky.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I never had a cavity.
My genetics are good.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Some people and dogs, just genetically, are
predisposed to cavities.
I believe it's called carriesdisease, which is where the
bacteria will eat away at yourteeth cats, especially cats,
have horrible teeth.
Yeah, yeah, and so do I.
That's why I've always said thedentist, no matter how many
times I brush.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
So if you have a, toothache, right, you don't like
I said you don't know what it'slike, but for listeners I have
tooth pain.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Okay, you don't know.
You don't know like you need aroot canal.
Okay, you're right that thatwill literally ruin your day.
It will ruin.
I know I've seen your day.
It will ruin your week untilyou can get.
You can get to the dentist andget it Calm down, maybe that's
why you were so angry.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
When I met you, you said so many, so many teeth
problems.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
You're nice, I appreciate that Appreciate it
very much.
You're welcome.
No, I'm still angry.
Um no, I'm still angry.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Uh, unrelated.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So you know, if you've ever had a toothache or
any other pain, you know how toaffect your mood.
You're not in a great mood,you're irritable, you don't want
to deal with people, you can'tfocus all you're thinking.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
You would normally be Tolerant of your or embracing
away from me.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, so you can say, hey, I'll talk to me.
I got a toothache, your dogcan't say that, so you got on a
walk and all of a sudden yourdog is super reactive to another
dog, not like them, liketotally.
This is totally new behaviorand a lot of people and they
reach out to us too Like we'vehad clients reach out and
they'll just immediately assumethat okay, the reactivity is the
(04:16):
problem and they're not lookingat the reactivity as a symptom
of another problem.
And that's why we always talkabout Ruling out medical things
first.
Yeah and it's just reallyinteresting to see the role that
pain plays.
And it's really interestingwhen, when you start to look at
it through the lens of what, ifit's us, that's causing the pain
in those moments, man, by thatI mean like a verse of tools and
(04:41):
that's well.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
They go hand in hand.
Why are they any different?
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Whether it's medical or something else is the cause
of the pain.
It doesn't matter, they're inthe same category.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, and when I say a verse of tools, I mean prong
collars, the, the choke chainsthat are gonna collapse on the
trachea, a shock collars,ecollars, that kind of anything,
a leash pop, anything that'sgoing to cause any level of
discomfort, and Anybody thattells you prong collars don't
hurt, shock collars don't hurtjust a vibration.
(05:12):
It wouldn't work if it didn'thurt.
It hurts, and it may not be.
Every dog's got a differentpain tolerance.
It may not be excruciating, butit's enough.
It's enough to it's like thattoothache that's just always
there.
It's enough to affect Emotionsand it's enough to create
negative associations with newthings.
So as we Unravel this topic ofdiscomfort and defensiveness and
(05:37):
reactivity and pain, I want tokind of look at it through this
lens on this podcast and look atthe lens of Utilizing these a
verse of tools and what theconsequences might be.
I'm gonna hand it off to you.
Oh are you not ready?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
to talk, you know, you just want me to carry this
whole thing here, we're, we're,we're coming off of a Little
rough morning a little dramaagain trying to get on a
schedule, trying to getproductive and really make the
time when our Two kids are outof the house.
I had a whole plan, everythingwas scheduled out and I go to do
(06:10):
our rehab dogs right before wedo this podcast and One of them.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Not gonna name names, I want to hurt his chances of
being adopted.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
One of them has really bad separation anxiety to
the extent we were unaware.
He's been with us for over aweek and he has not done this.
This was new.
But he had only been alone fortwo hours.
You did him at eight o'clock inthe morning and I literally
went at ten and I'm walking tothe barn door and I hear her
crying and I'm like what?
(06:41):
What does that sound so close?
And I look down to the rightside of the barn, right next to
the door, and there is a hole.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
There is a store.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
There is a borough hole a Borough into his kennel
and I see his feet.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
He ripped through.
He ripped through the turf,through through the stone sub
base.
He ripped up the two by eight.
That frames out the floor ofthe barn.
He ripped through everythingand then dug through and he did
it.
I looked at the camera.
He did it in 25 minutes.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So I'm not even mad.
I'm so impressed, but I'm alsoa little frazzled right now.
So yeah, so that's our brainsare a little off at this moment
in time.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
We're gonna have to do some sheet metal and I'm
gonna have to dig down theentire perimeter of that kennel.
It's gonna be a thirst up,gonna have to be the separation
anxiety kennel.
Yeah, we're just gonna have todrop sheet metal like two to
three feet down on all corners.
So yeah, well, I'm a littledistracted now.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
All the ideas and things went out of the brain.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
So let's talk about this topic.
Yes aversive tools.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah, you're not a fan well, no, not at all,
because I mean we were literallyI was literally just on the
phone with the dog that we werejust talking about his Rescue
and we were talking about and wegot off off topic, off of him,
and we were talking about dogsin general and Training and she
is all about positivereinforcement.
(08:06):
She loves that's.
That's what John and I do, andit's really hard to find board
and trains that do that.
And we were talking about howshe got a dog from a fighting
ring.
There was 14 dogs that werepulled.
They took one of them and herdog is the only one that's still
alive, because all the otherrescues that pulled the other
dogs use a verse of training andthey all didn't make it out
alive.
They needed to be euthanizedand it's no surprise that her
(08:29):
dog is still living and he's ina home.
They didn't they didn't attemptto do any meets with adopters
until eight months after havinghim, because, like we, she's
like we had to rehabilitate himfirst.
We didn't rush him, we didn'tjust try and throw corrections
on his behavior.
We let him decompress and wegave him a loving environment,
even though he was in a kennelwith us.
I mean, their rescue basicallytreats these dogs like gold in
(08:52):
their kennels and they'll go,you know, to the volunteers
homes for the days.
They bring them back.
And he's the only one that'sstill alive and you're not gonna
tell me that's a coincidence.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
You're not gonna tell you that's a large sample size.
If it was like two dogs and oneof them had to be euthanized.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
You could just say well, they're different dogs.
He's the only one that's alive.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Come on right.
So you know they, like I said,that goes hand in hand, whether
it's medical or it's somethingthat's done to the dog.
There is a reason why thoseaversive tools work in the
moment, but what they do longterm is what people are not
understanding.
Everybody wants a quick fix inthis environment and I'm just.
I'm so exhausted by it.
Nobody wants to actually put inthe work, even with themselves,
(09:35):
right, like nobody wants to goto therapy because they don't
want to have to do the work I'd.
I'd rather suppress all theseemotions and Just try and live
my day.
Yeah it's the same thing withour dogs we just want to shut
them up and have them sit thereand be perfect little angels,
and that's not how this works.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Just like kids.
Yeah gotta put the work in.
If you want an awesome kid, youneed to be an awesome parent.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, but I do think that there's a large majority of
people that are using thesetools that Aren't doing so to
take the easy way out.
They're doing so because theydon't have any other means to
control them, or they justthey're not educated.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, they haven't found the right trainer, they
haven't found the right peopleto support them.
Like I have tons of clientsthat come to me, you know, for
your free eval call and theytell me you know how they were
raised and how their parentshandled their dogs growing up
and they're like I don't want todo that, but no, I have nobody
around me supporting me righteven have like one partner come
(10:31):
to me for the eval call and theother Partner partner is on a
completely different spectrum ofhow they want to train Mm-hmm
and it's getting everybody onboard and that's that's
difficult sometimes.
So, yes, I agree, I thinkthere's a lot of people out
there that are using these,these tools, and they don't,
they don't want to, but theydon't know what else to do.
Mm-hmm and that seems to be thestruggle of like, how do I get
(10:53):
away from this?
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, successfully if you're hearing mouth noises
because we have Duke up hereright now and he's Going to town
on a popsicle.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
He can no longer be left alone.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
He'll make his way over to the bully stick.
Yeah, okay, so what you'resaying is basically what we're
saying is that a prong collarcan cause reactivity.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, just think about it, if Let me give it like
a real-life human example Allright, now, let's, let's use
children, because I always usethe kids.
Let's say every single time oh,jj are almost four year old
sees a kid that he doesn'tessentially love, they just
don't, they don't jive right,and Every single time JJ is
(11:42):
around this kid and he showsemotion like telling me mommy, I
don't want to go play with him.
I don't want to do this whateverand I'm like go play with him,
go be his friend, or I hit himto make him go and play with
that kid.
Would that ever change the waythat JJ feels about this child?
To make it positive, to makehim like this kid?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
It's no way.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
No right, he'd be like I never want to be around
this kid ever, because my mom,who loves me every other day and
would never do that to me, allof a sudden is now hitting me
and forcing me and yelling at meanytime this particular child
is around.
She doesn't do it when all theother kids are around, all the
kids that I like, right.
So it's not essentially for himas a toddler to understand that
(12:27):
it's his behavior that ismaking me do what I'm doing,
because we all think if I yellat you enough or I give you more
discomfort, you'll eventuallystop the behavior that you're
expressing.
And that's not how dogs workand that's not how kids work.
So if we want our dogs to trulyDo what we want them to do and
(12:47):
be social and be happy, healthydogs, which is really all what
we really want- that's really,at the end of the day, that what
we want, because a happy andhealthy dog will actually give
you exactly what you're lookingfor.
If we want that, we have to givethem the tools to get to that
end goal, which currently, ifyou are using a prong or a shock
other, you are not giving themthose tools.
(13:07):
You are giving them a playingfield to say this sucks, and I
don't like it.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
So what about a scenario where and I'll take it
back to JJ and human children,toddlers, kids?
What about a scenario where helikes the other person but every
time he works with that otherperson or hangs out with that
other person, like I'm thinkingfrom a dog's perspective of like
Figure, someone's walking avery friendly dog on on a prong
(13:35):
collar and every time they cross, just like they see another dog
across the street, they want togo and they want to play and
they're kind of like pullingthat way and jumping reactive.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
They already.
They're already at a goodplaying field of wanting to play
and be happy.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Right, like they're just on a prong collar because
they pull a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, the owner was a negative behavior.
Yeah, okay, that's saying.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
That could turn to reactivity.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Oh yeah.
Now why because if that dog iswalking and sees this dog and is
so excited, again they're notunderstanding that they have low
impulse control.
They're pulling and they'resuper excited and they're all
over the place to the pointwhere the the parent has to put
them on a Prong collar tocontrol them.
They are unaware that what theyare physically doing is
upsetting their pet parent.
Like they're not.
They're not doing it to you.
(14:19):
I think that's a really bigthing too.
Like your dog is not purposelytrying to embarrass you or make
it difficult for you to walkthem.
Like they are Blissfullyunaware that you are not having
fun.
They think everyone's having agreat time.
So they see that dog andthey're like oh yes, this is so
great.
And then all of a sudden, nowthere's pain.
There's pain and yelling andthey're like oh my god, wait,
maybe dogs really are bad.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Our dog, or at least anytime I see this dog or a dog
across the street, I'm in pain.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, that's why it's the same thing.
You know we always talk aboutour dogs and babies.
Online course is a big topicthat we discuss is if, when that
kid comes around, that babycomes into the play, you better
not yell at your dog, Regardlessof what behavior they give you,
because they will associatewith your child and by doing so,
you are actually putting yourchild in danger by doing that,
because your dog is gonna belike well, what changed?
(15:06):
This baby showed up and Iactually liked the baby, right,
maybe I wanted to sniff the babyand I was super excited.
And now I'm getting yelled at.
Yeah who's the problem?
The baby's the only thing thatchanged.
I've been this happy andexcited my whole life and has
never been a problem until now,right?
So we have to understand thathow we act and and react to
certain situations is Portrayingto our dogs a very different
(15:30):
thing than what then what we'reintending.
It's our thought process thatis skewed.
We have to think how they think.
That's.
That's my number one advice topeople is if you are confused
about what you're doing and whyyou're doing it, you have to
understand that.
To change it, you have to thinkhow your dog is thinking.
How are they what?
What is coming in their brainfrom this?
(15:52):
when you do this.
What do they think?
Not what you're trying to tellthem, right, like, even with
parenting, like we're strugglingwith JJ right now.
He's in that, that like phaseof like being rebellious and and
, and I've been trying to remindmyself like if I say things a
thousand times and his behaviorisn't changing, it's not him,
it's how I'm saying it.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
I need to change the way that I am saying it.
So if you are continuouslydoing the same exact methods
over and, over and over againand nothing is changing, you
have to look at yourself and say, okay, what, what may be, what
my dog is thinking from thislike what am.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I actually saying here yeah, yeah, then is it ever
like too late, you think, Tochange those?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
well, no, never, I mean, we've worked with dogs so
much older, like old, old dogs13.
I mean.
Look at Tishi, tishi, we got itnine.
She hated cats.
Now the three dogs in the house, she's the one who loves the
cat the most.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
She's a term pink because she's a white pity and
she's to turn pink and likepants dress her mouth to turn
red.
She'd be so stressed like Ijust got it.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I just gotta eat it one time that Salem came in the
house without the dogs beinglocked up and I didn't know it,
I was on a that's cuz the doordidn't close the door closed.
The wind blew open.
Salem Just came in.
She's like oh, guys left thedoor open for me and Tishi
pounced on her and thankfullydidn't do anything to her.
But now they're in, they loveeach other.
She kisses Salem.
So, yes, and she was nine atthe time, so you can make a lot
(17:18):
of changes.
Tishi lived outside.
I'm sure she's killed many catsto survive, probably you know.
So when I look at her I'm like,wow, like she really, because
we just gave her a really lovingenvironment and I never
reprimanded her for any behaviorthat she exhibited towards
Salem.
I let her Figure it out and Igave them, both of them, a
really good clink, because catscan kind of be a little
(17:40):
Teppermintal with this.
Thankfully, salem was very openand trusted John and I to hold
her in these situations and not,you know, scream and run off.
Duke is.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Want the bully stick for some reason the bully to
high value for you.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Buddy, if you want to refill his popsicle, I have the
balls right there.
Yeah, so really it really comesdown to no, it's never too late
.
You can absolutely undo whathas been done.
That's what we do on a dailybasis.
My sessions is mostly talkingto people who wanna undo the
(18:15):
training that's been done before.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Mm-hmm, interesting yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I mean-.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
When you brought up the topic of is reactivity a
symptom of pain, it didn'tinitially jump out at me to
think about aversive tools andthe roles that they play.
But if, scientifically, we knowthat pain is linked to
reactivity and other undesiredbehaviors, why wouldn't an
aversive tool that is intendedto produce discomfort, why
(18:45):
wouldn't it yield the sameresults?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I know it just makes so much sense when you put it on
paper and nobody wants tobelieve it, it doesn't it drive
you a little bit insane?
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yes, like Duke, would you like to say anything to?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
the audience.
Dukey boy, I'm ashamed.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Did you hear a little sniffles?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, he's so cute.
He really does remind me ofOakley so much, like when we
first got.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Oakley, he was-.
Get down from there, you crazyboy.
He's on the table.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Go boy, buddy, get down.
Yes, go boy, there's a good boy.
Oh, tailwags, there's a goodboy, go lay down baba, I'll give
him another calming pop.
Yeah Well, I wanna kinda segueinto like more medical stuff too
, like there are a lot ofmedical issues that people don't
realize right?
Do you remember, honey, when weworked with that other rescue
(19:31):
and she oh yeah, with the stumppyome, what did she have?
Yeah, she had a, what was itcalled?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
A stump pyometra.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
When she was spayed, they left behind the stump, so-.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
A little bit of the uterus.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, a little bit of her uterus, right.
So they spayed her, whatever.
And she was this Cocker Spanish.
She was a little feisty thatwhen we met her, that's what we
were told.
She's feisty, she'll bite you.
You gotta watch out for her.
She gives no warnings, yada,yada.
So all true, yes, all true.
They weren't wrong about that,but I was like, but why, though?
Right, like, what's the problem?
So they got her into foster andI'm looking at her.
(20:06):
I came over a couple of timesworking with her and I'm like
she really licks her hoo-haquite a bit.
Like a lot, like more than anaverage dog should.
Okay, take her to the vet.
I mean, the vet really like hadto give a thorough exam and she
was not feeling it.
Let me tell you that she was onantibiotics.
For what a year To try and Onand off.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, they had to go back in the UTI just kept coming
and coming in and they finallythey give us people for animals
or something.
The PFA I think they're theones they're spaying you to a
clinic are the ones that foundthe stump.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
And said hey, she needs another surgery.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
They missed something here.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yep.
So she was in an immense amountof pain for a long period of
time where it just became thisnormalcy like this was her and
it's not Right, like if you were.
I mean, you remember before Ihad my neck surgery, wasn't I
miserable like 90% of the time?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And it's like that was becoming my personality and
you were getting almostdesensitized to it, like this
was just who I was and inreality you forget I'm in an
immense amount of pain 24 seven,like of course I'm gonna be
pissed off all the time.
So when we look at our dogs wehave to say, okay, are we
missing something?
What's?
Look at the little things.
The other one is solo myCalifornia client.
(21:21):
He was guarding biting afterlike six months of having him
bliss right.
He had a ruptured eardrum, had aruptured eardrum and was
showing an immense amount ofreactivity.
I mean he's still working on,I'm still working with him today
.
His life kind of changed up alittle bit, but in a different
way.
But you know, once they fixedthe eardrum he had to have
surgery too.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
You know, like I got one that's a little closer to
home, that you somehow didn'teven realize.
Pajolina, remember she wasgoing through that phase of like
.
Didn't want us to touch hersnapping at us Maybe.
No, a few months ago she wasweird, she wasn't eating, and
what?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
was it.
She was very irritable, Lookyou remember.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
She had a slab fracture of one of her molars.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Oh my God, I totally forgot yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah, so she wasn't letting us touch her.
She didn't wanna play, she justlaid down all day.
She didn't wanna eat, she wasgrowling all the time she will
feisty to begin with.
She's a bitch.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
And her genetics are crap, but still like it was more
off than usual.
Yeah, and she will like.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
It took a little while because I couldn't really
like get my hands in her mouthand I really wasn't thinking and
there was one night she wasreally calm and you kind of you
were like oh my God she has afracture, clean slab fracture.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
And it's so funny too , because most chihuahuas have
really bad teeth genetically,like they've gotta get like a
couple of.
I mean you see the chihuahuasat 16 years old the teeth are
falling out of their face, buther teeth have always been
really great.
Our vet has always said she'sgot fabulous teeth for her age
she's seven.
So it wasn't like I mean shehad the cleaning anyway.
They obviously took that toothand cleaned her up, but I mean
(22:58):
she was in really good shaperegardless.
But yeah, like things like that, like fractured teeth and you
don't know, and anything likeinjuries to the paw and between
the paw pads, where they won'tlet you do it, and just weird,
weird things that pop up that weneed to start paying more
attention to, because if wedon't we can really drastically
miss something.
(23:18):
What else?
Yeah, ear infections are a bigone.
Those are probably UTIs and earinfections, I feel like are the
two most missed in my opinion,utis for sure or joint pain too,
because you can't really seethat other than maybe hip
dysplasia, and they're likethey're lagging.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
You'll see it in the gait, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
But that's not in your face because you can get
used to that right.
Like if you're around that 24seven, you don't pick up on it,
it just becomes what you see.
So you're not really realizingthere's a difference versus
waking up with a broken leg Likeyou're like oh okay, I can't
walk on my leg.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
And they're limping, you mean like it just progresses
.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, it just progresses.
So you're unaware that they'rein pain.
But they could, like our olderdogs, people say, oh, they're
just old and grumpy, like theymay be in pain, right.
So that's what we always say goto your vet, see what's going
on.
Let them do a thorough physicalexam.
If your dog does not like to betouched by the vet, you need to
do muscle training to keepeverybody safe and keep your dog
desensitized to that and keepthem in a really good way with
(24:11):
their muscle and not bepetrified of it.
So do that at least.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
14 days prior, for sure, it's vet tech week two, so
let's protect our vet techs.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yes, let's protect our vet techs.
Um, shout out to DD.
But yeah, like the, this needsto happen, like we need to, and
there's this is a lot of thingstoo.
It's a struggle because youknow vet care is expensive.
A lot of vets charge a lot ofmoney, so people try to avoid
going to vets at all costsunless there's something really
wrong.
So like going in and saying,hey, I don't know if there's
(24:41):
something wrong, but can you doit Doesn't sound very appetizing
to most pet parents at a dropof a hat when everybody's
struggling for money.
So I get it.
But if you really think thatyour dog's reactivity or just
overall grumpiness on a dailybasis could be something pain
related, it's time to go and getthat checked out.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, and if you want to get better at identifying
these kinds of things, becausethere's so many, obviously so
many things that can go wrongfrom biology perspective and
medical perspective, so we havea course for you.
We do that's all I'm gonna throwit in there From our advanced
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We are working on getting ourCEU endorsement with IAABC.
So if you do take it and youare an IAABC member, just let us
(25:44):
know and once we get those CEUsapproved, we will get you CEUs
issued.
But this covers everythinganatomy A lot of other classes
don't really cover anatomy,especially not physiology.
You'll leave this course withthe firm grasp on canine and
feline anatomy and physiology.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Like science class, but you actually will like it.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Yeah, it's a little easy to digest and take what you
need.
You're gonna develop a keen eyeto develop the skills necessary
to identify medical emergenciesearly and act quickly.
And that also rolls into thisof like, noticing when little
things are off, noticing whenthe gate's off, noticing they're
licking their lips weirdbecause they broke a tooth.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Yeah, look at that.
Like things like that.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
That tooth is broken and you know what a broken tooth
looks like.
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This includes CPR as well.
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So, yeah, head over topossumuniversitycom forward,
slash pet first aid If you wannalearn more about that course,
or just possumuniversitycom andnavigate your way in the menu to
the pet first aid course.
But that is going to be thebest way if you really wanna
develop the skills to pick up onthese little things that you
(27:06):
know when you catch early savesyou a lot of headache and saves
your pet a lot of discomfort.
It's the way to go.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Is there anything else you'd like to talk about
today?
If not, I think that's a wrapon this episode.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I think so too.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Let's give like one or two actionable things, one or
two takeaways from today'sepisode.
My God, he's really going totown on that.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
He likes the popsicle .
Speaker 1 (27:36):
For me, one of the actionable things to take away
is just that you should bereally cautious of what methods
you are using when you're takingyour dogs out on walks or when
they're interacting.
Be very mindful of whatassociations you may be creating
Accidentally, accidentally.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Well, I have a lot of people that say to me I only
use a prong collar because mydog pulls.
Well, like you said, you can becreating negative associations
without the intent of doingsomething.
You're not even givingcorrections, but your dog is so
excited that they're pulling andthey're choking themselves.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
That's the problem is that you're not just causing
Discomfort in the short term,you're causing it in the long
term because you're creatingthese associations which will
lead to fear.
Your dog doesn't understandthat it's a collar around their
neck.
They're thinking that it'swhatever the stimulus is that
they are reacting to, and surethey may get to a point where
they stop Reacting, because whenthey react they get pain, but
it doesn't mean they're notfeeling those emotions.
(28:32):
So that's one actionabletakeaway is to be very mindful
of what you're doing as far asusing those aversa tools or
what's what's happening on thewalk when these new behaviors
are servicing you got anythingfor us?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
I think really the medical stuff.
Like obviously I talk aboutprong colors and shot colors
every day, but the medical stuffis something it's like the
beginning of my sessions.
I'm always saying like do wethink Anything else is going?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
on.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
We have to.
We have to go down that routebecause it is so.
It is so common that we missthese things, and Can you
imagine not being able to talkand being in immense pain and
not being able to say it andnobody cares to look for it?
Yeah, do you know?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
what I mean.
Like not, I wouldn't even saynobody cares, it's just not
thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, like it's we get.
What's the equivalent of likenose-blind, like what's the
Fabrice commercial?
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Just like autopilot just autopilot.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
You just you know blinders on, you don't even see
it.
So it's really time to Look atyour dog and say, okay, what's
going on?
You're like with Pudge there'sso many times because she's and
because of what we do.
I always laugh, because whenanything happens to our three
dogs I Get so emotional and it'sit's different when it's your
own dog.
You have to take your emotionsout of it.
So with Pudge and her teeth, Ireally said to John like for a
(29:47):
week prior to figuring out herto those, like something is
wrong.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, we knew, we just didn't know what it was,
and I think we were even.
We were like checking to see ifshe had a UTI.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
We were like cuz I thought she was going outside
more often or needing to go out.
You know, literally Pudge islike outside like twice a day.
She's like now I'm good in bed,but like she was definitely
going out more often, I was likeshe drinking more water.
I was trying to figure it out.
I didn't even suspect the teeth, because she's not a Marobon
fan.
She doesn't like the frozenstuff, the really all she.
All she likes is bully sticks.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Well, at the end of the day, so we've never really.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I have no idea what she might have broken on,
because she doesn't do theMarobon, she doesn't chew
anything hard although she'llrandomly pick up a yak bone and
that could do it.
I wonder now here it is live onthe podcast.
We're figuring this out.
I wonder if she picked up a bigyak bone and Jumped up either
onto the better, onto the couch,and got rejected.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
She helped yourself and like yeah, you know maybe
she's so tiny she's only like 11pounds.
Yes, baby.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
So and she's expensive, delicate little
flower, don't say she'sexpensive.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
knock on wood, she is our least child Okay, she's she
and Oakley's just monthly ontheir medications.
In general she's on like acarprofen protocol because she's
like her bones are all brittle,and then Oakley, with these is
a large enlarged heart.
He's on Viagra, not even a jokeand know if you're thinking
(31:10):
what everybody thinks.
Now they don't have thosereceptors.
No, but it was really funnywhen the cardiologist told us
not to worry about that.
Yeah, he got a good cat of that.
I'm sure he says that dailypeople worry, all right.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
So I think the most important takeaway for the topic
this week is that never, ever,assume that a behavior issue is
rooted in behavior.
You should always rule out amedical issue because pain and
discomfort it can really cause alot of things.
So always take a step back.
I was like to say zoom thatlens out and look at what's
(31:42):
going on, look at the contacts,look at, look at everything
about your dog and say, alright,this is a new behavior, what
changed?
And kind of give him a goodOnce over.
If you really can't figure itout, just take him to the vet,
say, hey, we have this newbehavior that surface and your
vets not gonna think you'recrazy if you do this.
Say Go to the vet, set up anappointment.
They say what's the problemtoday?
What do you hear for?
Today?
You say this new behaviorsurface and I want to rule out
(32:05):
anything medical.
They're gonna know.
Check for near infection.
They're gonna know.
Check for UTI.
They're gonna know.
Do you know palpate joints,check for pain.
They're there to help you soleverage that.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
I will say if your vet is hesitant to do a checkup
Because maybe your dog slightlyreactive, you need to find a new
vet.
That's okay.
If they don't want to do that,that's obviously their boundary.
But you need to make sure thatyour dog gets the the care that
it needs and a vet that's goingto be okay With dealing with a
reactive dog.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah, they need to be a on your team, a team member.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
They're part of your team but if they're hesitant and
they don't want to see your dog, they're like all, they're
probably fine, that is.
That is not an okay response.
Okay, and you need to find avet that's gonna be okay and
work with your dog.
There are a lot of vets outthere not a lot, I would say.
There's a small handful thatare very good with dogs like
that and you need to find those,those vets you know, ask your
(32:59):
town Facebook groups which vetsare are really good with dogs
who have reactivity and don'tlike to be touched like.
Give me your recommendationsFind those good vets, get on
their schedule and and just Dowhat you got to do, because if
you're, if your vet is hesitant,we can miss something huge and
and that could be a really a bigfactor- you could always just
(33:19):
go to fear free pets calm.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Fear free pets, calm.
And that's the the fear freecertified Directory and find a
vet on the fear free list andthey're there nine times out of
ten, maybe even ten times out often.
They're gonna be the ones thatare more understanding, are
gonna take a more gentleapproach and you're gonna take
their time and not rush throughThings.
So, fear free pets calm.
Look for the.
(33:43):
There's like two or threedifferent search boxes one for
trainers, one for pets Itters.
I think, yeah, three, one forvets and vet tax search and and
find yourself.
If you are in the market for anew vet, find yourself a fear
free one yep.
All right, so we have for thisepisode.
Please follow us on Instagram.
At posthum University, youcould check out our shorts in
our YouTube videos over onYouTube If you enjoyed this
(34:06):
podcast and you want to rate usfive stars.
If you're living listening onApple music and I believe
Spotify allows Reviews now- oh,do they that's new nice, we got
a.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
we got a couple like 11, 11 or 12 five star reviews
on spot Very nice Thanks y'all,that's a new feature, I guess if
you are questioning your dog'sbehavior and what's going on and
you're interested in possiblydoing one-on-one training with
us, reach out.
Sign up for a free eat alcohol.
It's 15 minutes where you getto talk to me and I will tell
(34:36):
you what I think about your dogand your situation and what
would be best for you.
If it's in your price range andwhat that looks like, right, we
have payment plans if that is.
You know it's 15 minutes ofyour life that's for free, that
you can just get a good idea ofwhere you're at and what is
necessary for your family tosucceed, and we're here for that
.
So sign up for that call.
Oh yeah, definitely free it'snot gonna lose, it's literally
(34:58):
free.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
All right until next week class dismissed.
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