August 23, 2024 • 13 mins
How does a 27-year-old become a coach to an Olympic gold medal athlete?
James Sandiland, the coach of 2024 High Jump Gold Medallist Hamish Kerr, has shifted from the field to the sideline after injury lead him to halt his national hurdle career.
James is back home, and he joined Lesley Murdoch on All Sport Breakfast Canterbury to discuss just how high Hamish Kerr can get.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It was absolutely thrilling wherever you were able to get
your information about what was happening with the high jump.
And we think back to that sultry Paris afternoon and
so how does a twenty seven year old become a
coach to an Olympic gold medal athlete? Obviously Hamish Kerr
doing the business out there in the middle in front
(00:21):
of seventy seven thousand spectators, but not to mention the
millions around the world who were witnessing all that's so
dramatic finish to the high jump twenty twenty four Paris
gold medalist high jumper Well James Sandalan. He is a
career coach. This after his national title winning one hundred
(00:41):
and ten hurdles career, but it faded because of injury
and James Sandalan's joined us now on the program. How
I'm cool to get this interview with him. But good morning,
James Mordener.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Good morning, think you haven't It is.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
An amazing journey, isn't it when you think about it?
And the pannacle has been reached with an Olympic gold medal.
So let's turn our attention back to that Saturday afternoon
in the Star de France on a warm French afternoon
and the high jump final, and not forgetting, of course
all the drama getting to the high jump final. But
(01:19):
what are your utmost, topmost memories of that afternoon.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Well, there's quite a few to choose from. Obviously the
way it ended, the drama of the jump off with
something we haven't really seen before in the sport, and
that's special to be a part of that, And just
super proud of both jumpers for going after it and
putting it all on the line, because we saw last
(01:45):
time in Tokyo the two jumpers decided to share it,
which was again an incredible moment. But I think the
whole community knew it needed to needed to go to
a jump off, so for that to happen to Olympic
in a row with a different outcome was pretty special.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
For the uninformed, which most of us were, in terms
of the process to find a winner. The confusion, even
with the broadcasters and us at home wherever you were
trying to catch the action, you obviously knew what.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Was happening, right, Yeah, not not straight away throughout the
comp there was there was a little bit of confusion
in the stadium as well, because I think you guys
saw the same broadcast as far as the leader boards
throughout the comp and there was there was times where
it came up on the board that Hamish was in
first and Shelby McKowen the USA was in second, and
(02:38):
then that disappeared for a while and they were watching
Deavlin on the on the main screens, and then it
came back up that they were they were first equal,
And at that stage I hadn't really looked back through
and done the maths on on who was weird because
we were still just very much in the thick of
competition and focusing on the next jump. So it all
happened really quick, and then we all realized before they're
(03:03):
around the kind of second attempt at two thirty eight,
we we clicked on and you know that we had
some suspicions, but once you realized that this could go
to a jump, off still focused on trying to get
that thirty eight first, but it started to look like
that with a possibility, and then yeah, it was a
bit surreal, because yeah, it was a lot to taken
because you're still you're still thinking about the next jump,
(03:25):
but then you've got a very bizarre jump off in
the back of your mind as well.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So what were you saying to hamous Kur at the stage?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I had lots of things, I suppose of them. It's
kind of blurry now, But the competition as a whole,
for the most part, felt like a normal competition, and
we were super focused and wasn't necessarily a lot of
motivation needed. The never is this Hamish, So the way
we communicate is pretty straight up and to the point
of what he needs to do, jump by jumping, and
(03:54):
as reflective of how he's trained and the ideas we've
tried to develop along the way. So there was nothing
new or nothing particularly motivational to say to him. It
was just a matter of reviewing the last jump and
getting a small plan and keeping things simple for the
next one, which is pretty incredible to do when it
(04:16):
gets to a jump off, where especially that with the
way it worked out with him in the order, he
was jumping second the whole time, so essentially had four
chances to win it with no response. So yeah, thankfully
that two thirty four went our way. I think once
it went down to the air like that, both guys
had done done a lot of jumps and getting thirty
(04:37):
eight or thirty six is going to be a big challenge.
I think they was jumping number thirteen or fourteen for Hamish,
but once he went back down to thirty four, I thought,
this is definitely one. He's still got some energy four
and it was one of the better jumps in the camp.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So it was amazing going back to your story as
a twenty seven year old. Obviously hamus KU's the same
age you good mates that we know, but how does
a twenty seven year old to be coach of a
gold medal high jumper?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Put me? Quite a long story and at the same
time happened relatively quickly. I've been coaching for for a
number of years at various different levels, and then also
worked in sports science and strengthing additioning and then in
recent years and performance analysis essentially biomechanics type work. For
(05:27):
that I was sentially acting as an assistant coach to
Terry Lomax with his coach at the time and had
been for a number of years, so he was a massive,
massive mental for me at the privilege to learn from
from so many different people and various aspects of sport
performance and been really intentional and trying to learn as
(05:49):
quick as I can, which has really served me well,
and both going from a from an athlete into a
coach became quite a natural transition when I eventually put
all wags in that basket, and I love the process
and the curiosity around coaching, which I think was probably
my most enjoyable part of competing as well was just yeah,
(06:13):
trying to get better, probably to the point where I
was too too curious about what I was doing and
struggled to the home and as an athlete in later years,
but that part of it has just taken off from
a coaching and something I love. And I've got an
amazing team around me of people who are just as
passionate about solving these problems as I am. So that's
(06:34):
really special to be a part of.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Look, it's not an easy journey. You think the eighteen
months since you were elevated to hamas KU's coaching main
head coach.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Position, Yeah, yeah, I mean it happened really quickly, but
also with something we're looking at for a while, with
Kerry looking at retirement eventually and Hamish essentially wanted some change.
Year was some pretty bold moves, but I've still worked
really closely with Hearing, and he's been a massive support
(07:07):
for me and someone I can learn off so have
some more responsibility to step up into that role, but
also have this really important support people around me has
made that transition really positive. And we've just we've grown
so fast and learned really fast, which has made all
the difference to a few centimeters and a guy jumping
(07:29):
over a bar, which is really cool.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
What was Hamus looking for though in the move to you?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
It was kind of a long has development as an athlete.
He had taken on quite a lot more responsibility in
the previous year, which was great for him, and he
was more invested in his campaign, but they probably needed
a kind of time where he didn't have to call
some of the shots and he could step back and
trust in his team in the way we work together,
(07:55):
because we know each other so well and I know
to expect from hermony you know to expect from me.
I think he just yeah, needed need a bit of
a change and trust with a with a massive part
of off his campaign and something he wanted to be
able to offload, essentially knowing that he can still keep
(08:16):
learning as an athlete and still keep progressing, but he
knew he had a team of people behind him that
we're doing all that work as well. Then that's something
he really grabbed on to and really trusted. So yeah, certainly,
not just me, really grateful and thankful for the support
I've had both to athletics zellant as a as a coach,
(08:37):
an employed coach, but also through other support who are
my majority employer and from my Bob Mechanic's work Inthan Elsis.
So that's Yeah, they've both been incredibly supportive and there's
there's been times where that's yeah, challenge to balance both roles,
but that's something I really wanted to do and I
(08:58):
think for the most part with more official for only Hammers,
but others they take it to work with as well.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Just going back to that Saturday afternoon at the start
de Front, So it was over two hours, wasn't it
that high jumping final?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, yeah, a little over two hours which went both
really quickly and also seed to take all day as well.
We jumped at seven pm at night, which was probably
one of the longest days. If we got into the
stadium and into warm up and into the competition, it
was it was already familiar. We've done this before. Obviously
a different competition and different things at stake, but I
(09:34):
think we both kind of took some comfort in the
fact that this is actually familiar, part the waiting around beforehand,
which was probably worse.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
So is that the longest campaign you've been in a
high jump final scenario?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, I'd say so, just the way it keeps going.
And often if one athlete still in and then jumping
by themselves, it's quite a different feel because they might
take their time and draw the competition out. But the
fact that there was two guys going at it the
entire time, and it was literally on Hamish's last jump
that the competition was over, it made it feel quite different.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I mean, how do you come down from that upharick
high that everybody dreams about having an Olympic gold medal?
But you hear you're back in christ It's chilly, very
chilly temperatures after Paris, and so we're too from here
for both of you.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I'm happy to be back. I'm pretty good at flowing
back into normal life, and yeah, it's been pretty simple
and doing things I enjoy at home, which is nice
for a little bit of a change after being working
so long for Hamish, He's still competing, so he's got
a few more competitions over in Europe, which is another
challenge in itself to turn up to competitions as the
(10:46):
Olympic champion, which will be really special for him. And
he's got a few more things he wants to do
this season and then he'll be going and have a
good rest himself.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
So when it comes down to such a critical part
of a high jump Olympic final, is it about the
athleticism and the skill or is it about the mental
attributes that an athlete has?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, all of the above. I think Hamish is is
pretty incredible. How he helped them compose himself and his
mental strength and ability to focus back on this, on
this processes of what he needs to do. The jumping
was all there. Physically, he was all there. It was
it was just a matter of of kind of sharpening
(11:30):
the knife as you go and it needed needed a
bit of attention and in each jump just needed some
slight little tweaks. Yeah, I'm really proud of how he
how he got to that stage. And this is certainly
always going to be a few few unknowns and a
few thinks we have to deal with during the competition,
But mentally the final was was probably not quite as
(11:51):
much of a challenge as the qualifying in a lot
of ways that was that was a big moment for
him with for us to manage that. And there's probably
three or four really top jumps in that competition from him.
So I knew he could jump high and he meant
to do it just the right times.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
How much higher can he jump?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Great question. We said out a target this year of
two thirty eight and hadn't done that. Sorry that she's
clearing the bar. He's jumped high enough, in my opinion,
at different heights, and that's the real challenge of high jump,
Like he had had attempts at thirty four and in
thirty one and thirty six that were arguably high enough
(12:28):
to clear thirty eight or give it a really good attempt,
but you've got to do it with the bars bars
high enough. So I think that's really cool to set
that challenge and to work towards it, and I think
for the most part he got himself in a really
good position to do it. But he just needs a
few more, few more moments to try it, and he
has the right environments to be able to give it
(12:48):
a go, and then I think we keep looking forward
from there and yeah, the big kind of legacy number
of high jumpers is that two forty. Not many guys
have gone over that, so yeah, that's that's certainly certainly
hanging there.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Do you have provided a historic piece of athleticism of
sporting memorabilia for people that they will never ever forget.
And wow, we are so grateful, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Thank you very much. I'm yeah, I'm just so pleased
to be part of it. And the crowd of Hamish
for doing that and being a lasting memory for the
whole country is very cool.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
For more from News Talks b listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
It was absolutely thrilling wherever you were able to get
your information about what was happening with the high jump.
And we think back to that sultry Paris afternoon and
so how does a twenty seven year old become a
coach to an Olympic gold medal athlete? Obviously Hamish Kerr
doing the business out there in the middle in front
(00:21):
of seventy seven thousand spectators, but not to mention the
millions around the world who were witnessing all that's so
dramatic finish to the high jump twenty twenty four Paris
gold medalist high jumper Well James Sandalan. He is a
career coach. This after his national title winning one hundred
(00:41):
and ten hurdles career, but it faded because of injury
and James Sandalan's joined us now on the program. How
I'm cool to get this interview with him. But good morning,
James Mordener.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Good morning, think you haven't It is.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
An amazing journey, isn't it when you think about it?
And the pannacle has been reached with an Olympic gold medal.
So let's turn our attention back to that Saturday afternoon
in the Star de France on a warm French afternoon
and the high jump final, and not forgetting, of course
all the drama getting to the high jump final. But
(01:19):
what are your utmost, topmost memories of that afternoon.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Well, there's quite a few to choose from. Obviously the
way it ended, the drama of the jump off with
something we haven't really seen before in the sport, and
that's special to be a part of that, And just
super proud of both jumpers for going after it and
putting it all on the line, because we saw last
(01:45):
time in Tokyo the two jumpers decided to share it,
which was again an incredible moment. But I think the
whole community knew it needed to needed to go to
a jump off, so for that to happen to Olympic
in a row with a different outcome was pretty special.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
For the uninformed, which most of us were, in terms
of the process to find a winner. The confusion, even
with the broadcasters and us at home wherever you were
trying to catch the action, you obviously knew what.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Was happening, right, Yeah, not not straight away throughout the
comp there was there was a little bit of confusion
in the stadium as well, because I think you guys
saw the same broadcast as far as the leader boards
throughout the comp and there was there was times where
it came up on the board that Hamish was in
first and Shelby McKowen the USA was in second, and
(02:38):
then that disappeared for a while and they were watching
Deavlin on the on the main screens, and then it
came back up that they were they were first equal,
And at that stage I hadn't really looked back through
and done the maths on on who was weird because
we were still just very much in the thick of
competition and focusing on the next jump. So it all
happened really quick, and then we all realized before they're
(03:03):
around the kind of second attempt at two thirty eight,
we we clicked on and you know that we had
some suspicions, but once you realized that this could go
to a jump, off still focused on trying to get
that thirty eight first, but it started to look like
that with a possibility, and then yeah, it was a
bit surreal, because yeah, it was a lot to taken
because you're still you're still thinking about the next jump,
(03:25):
but then you've got a very bizarre jump off in
the back of your mind as well.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So what were you saying to hamous Kur at the stage?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I had lots of things, I suppose of them. It's
kind of blurry now, But the competition as a whole,
for the most part, felt like a normal competition, and
we were super focused and wasn't necessarily a lot of
motivation needed. The never is this Hamish, So the way
we communicate is pretty straight up and to the point
of what he needs to do, jump by jumping, and
(03:54):
as reflective of how he's trained and the ideas we've
tried to develop along the way. So there was nothing
new or nothing particularly motivational to say to him. It
was just a matter of reviewing the last jump and
getting a small plan and keeping things simple for the
next one, which is pretty incredible to do when it
(04:16):
gets to a jump off, where especially that with the
way it worked out with him in the order, he
was jumping second the whole time, so essentially had four
chances to win it with no response. So yeah, thankfully
that two thirty four went our way. I think once
it went down to the air like that, both guys
had done done a lot of jumps and getting thirty
(04:37):
eight or thirty six is going to be a big challenge.
I think they was jumping number thirteen or fourteen for Hamish,
but once he went back down to thirty four, I thought,
this is definitely one. He's still got some energy four
and it was one of the better jumps in the camp.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So it was amazing going back to your story as
a twenty seven year old. Obviously hamus KU's the same
age you good mates that we know, but how does
a twenty seven year old to be coach of a
gold medal high jumper?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Put me? Quite a long story and at the same
time happened relatively quickly. I've been coaching for for a
number of years at various different levels, and then also
worked in sports science and strengthing additioning and then in
recent years and performance analysis essentially biomechanics type work. For
(05:27):
that I was sentially acting as an assistant coach to
Terry Lomax with his coach at the time and had
been for a number of years, so he was a massive,
massive mental for me at the privilege to learn from
from so many different people and various aspects of sport
performance and been really intentional and trying to learn as
(05:49):
quick as I can, which has really served me well,
and both going from a from an athlete into a
coach became quite a natural transition when I eventually put
all wags in that basket, and I love the process
and the curiosity around coaching, which I think was probably
my most enjoyable part of competing as well was just yeah,
(06:13):
trying to get better, probably to the point where I
was too too curious about what I was doing and
struggled to the home and as an athlete in later years,
but that part of it has just taken off from
a coaching and something I love. And I've got an
amazing team around me of people who are just as
passionate about solving these problems as I am. So that's
(06:34):
really special to be a part of.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Look, it's not an easy journey. You think the eighteen
months since you were elevated to hamas KU's coaching main
head coach.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Position, Yeah, yeah, I mean it happened really quickly, but
also with something we're looking at for a while, with
Kerry looking at retirement eventually and Hamish essentially wanted some change.
Year was some pretty bold moves, but I've still worked
really closely with Hearing, and he's been a massive support
(07:07):
for me and someone I can learn off so have
some more responsibility to step up into that role, but
also have this really important support people around me has
made that transition really positive. And we've just we've grown
so fast and learned really fast, which has made all
the difference to a few centimeters and a guy jumping
(07:29):
over a bar, which is really cool.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
What was Hamus looking for though in the move to you?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
It was kind of a long has development as an athlete.
He had taken on quite a lot more responsibility in
the previous year, which was great for him, and he
was more invested in his campaign, but they probably needed
a kind of time where he didn't have to call
some of the shots and he could step back and
trust in his team in the way we work together,
(07:55):
because we know each other so well and I know
to expect from hermony you know to expect from me.
I think he just yeah, needed need a bit of
a change and trust with a with a massive part
of off his campaign and something he wanted to be
able to offload, essentially knowing that he can still keep
(08:16):
learning as an athlete and still keep progressing, but he
knew he had a team of people behind him that
we're doing all that work as well. Then that's something
he really grabbed on to and really trusted. So yeah, certainly,
not just me, really grateful and thankful for the support
I've had both to athletics zellant as a as a coach,
(08:37):
an employed coach, but also through other support who are
my majority employer and from my Bob Mechanic's work Inthan Elsis.
So that's Yeah, they've both been incredibly supportive and there's
there's been times where that's yeah, challenge to balance both roles,
but that's something I really wanted to do and I
(08:58):
think for the most part with more official for only Hammers,
but others they take it to work with as well.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Just going back to that Saturday afternoon at the start
de Front, So it was over two hours, wasn't it
that high jumping final?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, yeah, a little over two hours which went both
really quickly and also seed to take all day as well.
We jumped at seven pm at night, which was probably
one of the longest days. If we got into the
stadium and into warm up and into the competition, it
was it was already familiar. We've done this before. Obviously
a different competition and different things at stake, but I
(09:34):
think we both kind of took some comfort in the
fact that this is actually familiar, part the waiting around beforehand,
which was probably worse.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
So is that the longest campaign you've been in a
high jump final scenario?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, I'd say so, just the way it keeps going.
And often if one athlete still in and then jumping
by themselves, it's quite a different feel because they might
take their time and draw the competition out. But the
fact that there was two guys going at it the
entire time, and it was literally on Hamish's last jump
that the competition was over, it made it feel quite different.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I mean, how do you come down from that upharick
high that everybody dreams about having an Olympic gold medal?
But you hear you're back in christ It's chilly, very
chilly temperatures after Paris, and so we're too from here
for both of you.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I'm happy to be back. I'm pretty good at flowing
back into normal life, and yeah, it's been pretty simple
and doing things I enjoy at home, which is nice
for a little bit of a change after being working
so long for Hamish, He's still competing, so he's got
a few more competitions over in Europe, which is another
challenge in itself to turn up to competitions as the
(10:46):
Olympic champion, which will be really special for him. And
he's got a few more things he wants to do
this season and then he'll be going and have a
good rest himself.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
So when it comes down to such a critical part
of a high jump Olympic final, is it about the
athleticism and the skill or is it about the mental
attributes that an athlete has?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, all of the above. I think Hamish is is
pretty incredible. How he helped them compose himself and his
mental strength and ability to focus back on this, on
this processes of what he needs to do. The jumping
was all there. Physically, he was all there. It was
it was just a matter of of kind of sharpening
(11:30):
the knife as you go and it needed needed a
bit of attention and in each jump just needed some
slight little tweaks. Yeah, I'm really proud of how he
how he got to that stage. And this is certainly
always going to be a few few unknowns and a
few thinks we have to deal with during the competition,
But mentally the final was was probably not quite as
(11:51):
much of a challenge as the qualifying in a lot
of ways that was that was a big moment for
him with for us to manage that. And there's probably
three or four really top jumps in that competition from him.
So I knew he could jump high and he meant
to do it just the right times.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
How much higher can he jump?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Great question. We said out a target this year of
two thirty eight and hadn't done that. Sorry that she's
clearing the bar. He's jumped high enough, in my opinion,
at different heights, and that's the real challenge of high jump,
Like he had had attempts at thirty four and in
thirty one and thirty six that were arguably high enough
(12:28):
to clear thirty eight or give it a really good attempt,
but you've got to do it with the bars bars
high enough. So I think that's really cool to set
that challenge and to work towards it, and I think
for the most part he got himself in a really
good position to do it. But he just needs a
few more, few more moments to try it, and he
has the right environments to be able to give it
(12:48):
a go, and then I think we keep looking forward
from there and yeah, the big kind of legacy number
of high jumpers is that two forty. Not many guys
have gone over that, so yeah, that's that's certainly certainly
hanging there.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Do you have provided a historic piece of athleticism of
sporting memorabilia for people that they will never ever forget.
And wow, we are so grateful, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Thank you very much. I'm yeah, I'm just so pleased
to be part of it. And the crowd of Hamish
for doing that and being a lasting memory for the
whole country is very cool.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
For more from News Talks b listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
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