September 13, 2024 • 12 mins
Crusaders CEO Colin Mansbridge joined Lesley Murdoch to discuss the changes to the Super Rugby format for the 2025 season, given the Melbourne Rebels have exited the competition.
Changes have predominately been made with the intention of creating more fan engagement at a time when rugby is battling to hold on to its spot as the most watched sport.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In Leslie, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
We have very good things a little bit damp out there?
Speaker 1 (00:04):
That is, yes, I thought we were in summer, but
maybe it's just a bit of a reminder.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
We're not quite the No, we're not quite sprang always
a bit ecky, isn't it? Well? The new final system
and the Super Rugby format for next year, First of all,
can I clarify is it just for one year? This
new format?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
It'll be somewhat dependent upon what happens in terms of
teams Leslie. So you know, obviously with the demands of
the Rebels this year that's forced us to an eleven
team format. I think the principle of having about that
right percentage of teams from the overall roster making the
(00:43):
finals would be similar. So I think the feedback was
taken on by the Super UBI Pacific board that you know,
eight out of twelve was probably too many, but such
out of eleventh field sort of commensure it was what
some other codes and competitions look like.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I mean, you clearly would have had and put tho.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, I was saying to someone the other day, probably
not one of the things you have when you have
a competition like this. You have a whole lot of
the CEOs of other clubs together and we've all got
our own opinions. We've all got our own beliefs about
the way things should happen. And you know, as you
look at social media when things like this happen, that
there is no one opinion that everybody gets right behind us.
(01:24):
Is that's it? We're all completely aligned, So we'll got
us for our opinions and insights. There's a lot of
fan research went into it. So the new CEO super specific,
Jack Mesley is a very sat fan centric person and
he was myopic in our recent session with him on
(01:47):
how much we've got to keep thinking about what can
we deliver to fans with what we've got. So all
that went into the mix and they've ended up in
this format. I'm quite excited by it, actually, is that
sort of I reckon, see it's about the right number
with an eleven team comp and I think, you know,
if you're the beast, Let's say you're number one in
(02:08):
round robin, had a fantastic season and then you got
through and you know, for whatever reason, lost in the
eighty third minute, A difficult situation, controversial decision, and you've
been the top team through the comp I think you
probably do deserve a life and so, and I think
the finals would be poorer with that. Now that doesn't
(02:30):
happen often, but you'll still get you'll still get the
top four teams going through to the semi in the finals.
So yeah, it'll be intriguing and it'll forced teams to
want to improve their ranking because the higher the ranking,
if you're one or two, for example, you're likely to
get a life. Well, if you're six, you're not going
(02:52):
to get a live really, so so I think the
challenges you want to be one, two or three, and
so it keeps excitement not only in the finals, but
where you place in the finals.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Absolutely, so before you get there. Teams will play fourteen
regular season matches, consisting of seven home games, seven away games,
and be allocated to buys. Teams will play four teams
twice with a focus on rivalry matchups, and the six
remaining teams once. So who decides that is it like local.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Derby's that's basically again as fan centricity that drove some
of the decision making. So basically what happened was that
with fourteen weeks, the window that we've got for Super Rugby.
It gives us the fourteen matches, seven home and away.
So that means with you're eleven teams, you've got your ten,
(03:42):
so you've got four left over that you have to
play again. So last year and the year before, in
a similar sort of principle, there was this sort of
seeding process, quite complicated setting process that saw you play
some interesting people twice. I think we played the Drewer
twice last year and even the Warratahs that sort of
dropped out of the seeding last year. But it didn't
(04:04):
excite the fans. So what Jack's done is had a
look at you know what the fans get excited about.
Let's look at the season review research from last union
before all fans get really really excited about by local
Garby rivalries both sides of the tasn't and even that
the Drewer Pacificer thing. So it became reasonably obvious that
(04:29):
the best thing you can do if you want to
interest the fans is get more local Garby. So that's
what's transplanted.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Right, So I get that. So just looking back to
those final series qualifying finals, as you mentioned, one v
six two, v five, three v four that will bring
out three winners. And then there is the lucky loser,
which is the highest placed team going into those top
six that loses.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
The highest team from the round robin that loses get
to another life.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Right, so that the better performed consistently throughout the season
is being rewarded and all in all aspects. Yep, yeah, yeah, okay,
Well that sounds pretty fair because I do remember talking
with Kevin molloy, I think he's chair of that Super
Rugby group saying that they wanted to get a group
of people who didn't have a parochial interest and they
were looking to see what they could do for the
(05:22):
benefit of Super Rugby rather than for any one franchise.
And that's what you've outlined as well, right, that's.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
What happens, Leslie. We we had a day together in
Auckland this week with the superb pecific CEOs and the
head coaches and one of you know, you turn up
with your Crusaders hat on, and and you know you're
there lobbying for the Crusaders all the time. It's the
(05:51):
same as the CEOs and the other places are. But
every now and then Jack and Kevin just have to
keep pulling your back and say, you know, we've got
to do what the fans want, what's best for the competition.
So it's a very fan centric mindset that those two
have about the way the competition should be run. And
even when we got to the coaches talking about shape
(06:13):
of the game, I think you'd say super has been
pretty cool in the last couple of years and terms
of bringing in some of the innovations that have happened,
so even things like shot clocks, you know, some of
the rules about timings and those things that were discussed
forever and ever, and then two years ago we had
(06:35):
a bit of a go at those and a bit
of a resfinement and doubling down among the things that
work and dropping those that didn't. A rose out of
these sort of workshops. So I think fancentricity absolutely top
of the mind when the competition's being designed. Obviously, when
you're in it yourself, you're going to try and win
a championship and all the gloves are off yep.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Sounds good. And I think the talking of the fans,
the introduction of the three Sunday afternoon fixtures, making it
easier for families to get down there. I think that's
you know, people have been craving that, haven't they.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, And I think that's the challenge. That obviously broadcasters
attract viewers at certain times of the day and week,
and that viewership does help underwrite a significant amount of
the costs of the competition. But the challenges is that
viewers are only part of the equation. I know, with
(07:34):
digital screens and different consumption patterns, it's got people much
more focused on phones and TVs and things like that,
But that's only part of the equation. And the thing
that we were impressed with Jack and Kevin and the
board about was how they started to say, well, let's
look at let's test some of these things and see
what does happen to viewership if you end up with
(07:55):
a game here, and then what's the aggregate impact on
viewership endans? And and what's the feedback you're getting, what's
the NPS score you're getting out of your attendants, and
how engage at people while the game's on. So they
that they're much more you know, we've got lots of opinions,
they've got a lot more facts, and so they are
(08:16):
trying to stress some of these traditional held views about
when games should be played and at what time. So
hopefully this will be another year of improvement where we
can just see a little bit better engaging in the competition.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Absolutely, and just on another note, when does the Crusader
squad get revealed?
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Actually it's a good question that the final that there's
there's the NPC is sort of a determinant of when
the final spots can be allocated. So obviously there's still
a couple of spots that are being sort of up
for grabs through the NPC season, So it'll be the
back end of NPC. Notwithstanding you've seen there's been a
(09:02):
few announcements certain players who have agreed to sign on,
so it's probably more than newbies that you'll you'll want
to see announced and so that there that that contract
team works going on as you speak. So it'll be
back into NPC, isn't.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
It all right? So twenty twenty five you're looking forward
to it clearly.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, And I think I think coaching group seem really,
you know, off the off what they went last year,
seem to be in a really good space. And uh,
you know, I know I from talking to many of
the players who are playing in other environments at the moment,
you know, like they seem to be quite excited about
(09:42):
what next year will be and I think even the
Australians interest in to one of the Australians yes, this week,
you know, there's been a bit of consolidation of talent
with the Rebels departing, so you know you're going to
say pretty highly looking wire times out and well coached.
The Reds will go again and the Brumbies will always
(10:04):
be there and so yeah, I think I think the
competition will be a bit tighter, a bit closer in
a bit more competitive nextyess, I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Fantastic. And what's the situation around Tarmody Ellison given that
he is part of the All Blacks? Is he still
with you?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
He is? You'll think back to we've done it before.
Jace Ryan used to do US and Fiji did international yes, yes, yeah,
Andrew Goodman used to do us in some more just
trying to think and a lot of our coaches have
done they'll do NPC and talmoty did two years that
(10:46):
he did US and a head coach of the Wellington Lions.
So we do like it's sort of been something that's
worked for us historically, having coaches who operate in the
other programs as well obviously has that they bring back
external insight and experience that we wouldn't otherwise get. So
(11:07):
we quite like it when coaches are in other programs
when we're not assembled. Obviously, he's got slightly more responsibility
in there now, so so you know, we're making sure
that he's got the capacity to do the best for him,
which hopefully is the best for us too.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah. Absolutely, Oh well, it's very comprehensive. Thank you so
much for explaining that some people won't have heard about
it at all. Some people would have been perplexed. Now
they shouldn't be. It's been very transparent and overall you're
just giving it the tick of approval the new format,
I think.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
So, Leslie, and yeah, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
No, it's been great, thank you. Oh, by the way,
you haven't had a chat to Scott robertson at all
since he's been back.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Not since he's been back. You know, we've we've swapped
the occasional messages and emojis on our chats, so yeah,
he's working hard.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
That they were close to it that well, they were
very close and against the best team in the world
right now. They were really close. I'm very encouraged.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
I think that. I think the difference between I mean,
he wouldn't say this. You know, one thing we all
know about Razors. He would never say what we were
close end a couple times. But ep, you know, he's
always saying to himself and the people who works, we've
just got to be better. But as fans we can
sit there and say, you know that they've got to
(12:29):
be hard on themselves. But as fans we can sit
there and say, they were close and I'm optimistic and
so yeah, I think that's the That's the way, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yep, categorically it is definitely, And thank you very much.
We really appreciate your time on a very old Saturday.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Thanks. Enjoy the US to day. We will for more
from News Talks d B. Listen live on air or online,
and
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Keep our shows with you wherever you go with our
podcasts on our radio
In Leslie, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
We have very good things a little bit damp out there?
Speaker 1 (00:04):
That is, yes, I thought we were in summer, but
maybe it's just a bit of a reminder.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
We're not quite the No, we're not quite sprang always
a bit ecky, isn't it? Well? The new final system
and the Super Rugby format for next year, First of all,
can I clarify is it just for one year? This
new format?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
It'll be somewhat dependent upon what happens in terms of
teams Leslie. So you know, obviously with the demands of
the Rebels this year that's forced us to an eleven
team format. I think the principle of having about that
right percentage of teams from the overall roster making the
(00:43):
finals would be similar. So I think the feedback was
taken on by the Super UBI Pacific board that you know,
eight out of twelve was probably too many, but such
out of eleventh field sort of commensure it was what
some other codes and competitions look like.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I mean, you clearly would have had and put tho.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, I was saying to someone the other day, probably
not one of the things you have when you have
a competition like this. You have a whole lot of
the CEOs of other clubs together and we've all got
our own opinions. We've all got our own beliefs about
the way things should happen. And you know, as you
look at social media when things like this happen, that
there is no one opinion that everybody gets right behind us.
(01:24):
Is that's it? We're all completely aligned, So we'll got
us for our opinions and insights. There's a lot of
fan research went into it. So the new CEO super specific,
Jack Mesley is a very sat fan centric person and
he was myopic in our recent session with him on
(01:47):
how much we've got to keep thinking about what can
we deliver to fans with what we've got. So all
that went into the mix and they've ended up in
this format. I'm quite excited by it, actually, is that
sort of I reckon, see it's about the right number
with an eleven team comp and I think, you know,
if you're the beast, Let's say you're number one in
(02:08):
round robin, had a fantastic season and then you got
through and you know, for whatever reason, lost in the
eighty third minute, A difficult situation, controversial decision, and you've
been the top team through the comp I think you
probably do deserve a life and so, and I think
the finals would be poorer with that. Now that doesn't
(02:30):
happen often, but you'll still get you'll still get the
top four teams going through to the semi in the finals.
So yeah, it'll be intriguing and it'll forced teams to
want to improve their ranking because the higher the ranking,
if you're one or two, for example, you're likely to
get a life. Well, if you're six, you're not going
(02:52):
to get a live really, so so I think the
challenges you want to be one, two or three, and
so it keeps excitement not only in the finals, but
where you place in the finals.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Absolutely, so before you get there. Teams will play fourteen
regular season matches, consisting of seven home games, seven away games,
and be allocated to buys. Teams will play four teams
twice with a focus on rivalry matchups, and the six
remaining teams once. So who decides that is it like local.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Derby's that's basically again as fan centricity that drove some
of the decision making. So basically what happened was that
with fourteen weeks, the window that we've got for Super Rugby.
It gives us the fourteen matches, seven home and away.
So that means with you're eleven teams, you've got your ten,
(03:42):
so you've got four left over that you have to
play again. So last year and the year before, in
a similar sort of principle, there was this sort of
seeding process, quite complicated setting process that saw you play
some interesting people twice. I think we played the Drewer
twice last year and even the Warratahs that sort of
dropped out of the seeding last year. But it didn't
(04:04):
excite the fans. So what Jack's done is had a
look at you know what the fans get excited about.
Let's look at the season review research from last union
before all fans get really really excited about by local
Garby rivalries both sides of the tasn't and even that
the Drewer Pacificer thing. So it became reasonably obvious that
(04:29):
the best thing you can do if you want to
interest the fans is get more local Garby. So that's
what's transplanted.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Right, So I get that. So just looking back to
those final series qualifying finals, as you mentioned, one v
six two, v five, three v four that will bring
out three winners. And then there is the lucky loser,
which is the highest placed team going into those top
six that loses.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
The highest team from the round robin that loses get
to another life.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Right, so that the better performed consistently throughout the season
is being rewarded and all in all aspects. Yep, yeah, yeah, okay,
Well that sounds pretty fair because I do remember talking
with Kevin molloy, I think he's chair of that Super
Rugby group saying that they wanted to get a group
of people who didn't have a parochial interest and they
were looking to see what they could do for the
(05:22):
benefit of Super Rugby rather than for any one franchise.
And that's what you've outlined as well, right, that's.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
What happens, Leslie. We we had a day together in
Auckland this week with the superb pecific CEOs and the
head coaches and one of you know, you turn up
with your Crusaders hat on, and and you know you're
there lobbying for the Crusaders all the time. It's the
(05:51):
same as the CEOs and the other places are. But
every now and then Jack and Kevin just have to
keep pulling your back and say, you know, we've got
to do what the fans want, what's best for the competition.
So it's a very fan centric mindset that those two
have about the way the competition should be run. And
even when we got to the coaches talking about shape
(06:13):
of the game, I think you'd say super has been
pretty cool in the last couple of years and terms
of bringing in some of the innovations that have happened,
so even things like shot clocks, you know, some of
the rules about timings and those things that were discussed
forever and ever, and then two years ago we had
(06:35):
a bit of a go at those and a bit
of a resfinement and doubling down among the things that
work and dropping those that didn't. A rose out of
these sort of workshops. So I think fancentricity absolutely top
of the mind when the competition's being designed. Obviously, when
you're in it yourself, you're going to try and win
a championship and all the gloves are off yep.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Sounds good. And I think the talking of the fans,
the introduction of the three Sunday afternoon fixtures, making it
easier for families to get down there. I think that's
you know, people have been craving that, haven't they.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, And I think that's the challenge. That obviously broadcasters
attract viewers at certain times of the day and week,
and that viewership does help underwrite a significant amount of
the costs of the competition. But the challenges is that
viewers are only part of the equation. I know, with
(07:34):
digital screens and different consumption patterns, it's got people much
more focused on phones and TVs and things like that,
But that's only part of the equation. And the thing
that we were impressed with Jack and Kevin and the
board about was how they started to say, well, let's
look at let's test some of these things and see
what does happen to viewership if you end up with
(07:55):
a game here, and then what's the aggregate impact on
viewership endans? And and what's the feedback you're getting, what's
the NPS score you're getting out of your attendants, and
how engage at people while the game's on. So they
that they're much more you know, we've got lots of opinions,
they've got a lot more facts, and so they are
(08:16):
trying to stress some of these traditional held views about
when games should be played and at what time. So
hopefully this will be another year of improvement where we
can just see a little bit better engaging in the competition.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Absolutely, and just on another note, when does the Crusader
squad get revealed?
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Actually it's a good question that the final that there's
there's the NPC is sort of a determinant of when
the final spots can be allocated. So obviously there's still
a couple of spots that are being sort of up
for grabs through the NPC season, So it'll be the
back end of NPC. Notwithstanding you've seen there's been a
(09:02):
few announcements certain players who have agreed to sign on,
so it's probably more than newbies that you'll you'll want
to see announced and so that there that that contract
team works going on as you speak. So it'll be
back into NPC, isn't.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
It all right? So twenty twenty five you're looking forward
to it clearly.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, And I think I think coaching group seem really,
you know, off the off what they went last year,
seem to be in a really good space. And uh,
you know, I know I from talking to many of
the players who are playing in other environments at the moment,
you know, like they seem to be quite excited about
(09:42):
what next year will be and I think even the
Australians interest in to one of the Australians yes, this week,
you know, there's been a bit of consolidation of talent
with the Rebels departing, so you know you're going to
say pretty highly looking wire times out and well coached.
The Reds will go again and the Brumbies will always
(10:04):
be there and so yeah, I think I think the
competition will be a bit tighter, a bit closer in
a bit more competitive nextyess, I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Fantastic. And what's the situation around Tarmody Ellison given that
he is part of the All Blacks? Is he still
with you?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
He is? You'll think back to we've done it before.
Jace Ryan used to do US and Fiji did international yes, yes, yeah,
Andrew Goodman used to do us in some more just
trying to think and a lot of our coaches have
done they'll do NPC and talmoty did two years that
(10:46):
he did US and a head coach of the Wellington Lions.
So we do like it's sort of been something that's
worked for us historically, having coaches who operate in the
other programs as well obviously has that they bring back
external insight and experience that we wouldn't otherwise get. So
(11:07):
we quite like it when coaches are in other programs
when we're not assembled. Obviously, he's got slightly more responsibility
in there now, so so you know, we're making sure
that he's got the capacity to do the best for him,
which hopefully is the best for us too.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah. Absolutely, Oh well, it's very comprehensive. Thank you so
much for explaining that some people won't have heard about
it at all. Some people would have been perplexed. Now
they shouldn't be. It's been very transparent and overall you're
just giving it the tick of approval the new format,
I think.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
So, Leslie, and yeah, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
No, it's been great, thank you. Oh, by the way,
you haven't had a chat to Scott robertson at all
since he's been back.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Not since he's been back. You know, we've we've swapped
the occasional messages and emojis on our chats, so yeah,
he's working hard.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
That they were close to it that well, they were
very close and against the best team in the world
right now. They were really close. I'm very encouraged.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
I think that. I think the difference between I mean,
he wouldn't say this. You know, one thing we all
know about Razors. He would never say what we were
close end a couple times. But ep, you know, he's
always saying to himself and the people who works, we've
just got to be better. But as fans we can
sit there and say, you know that they've got to
(12:29):
be hard on themselves. But as fans we can sit
there and say, they were close and I'm optimistic and
so yeah, I think that's the That's the way, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yep, categorically it is definitely, And thank you very much.
We really appreciate your time on a very old Saturday.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Thanks. Enjoy the US to day. We will for more
from News Talks d B. Listen live on air or online,
and
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Keep our shows with you wherever you go with our
podcasts on our radio
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