June 25, 2024 • 54 mins
Camila Cabello is in the midst of a creative revival. Her brand new album, C,XOXO was recently dubbed “hyper-pop” by Rolling Stone in the wake of the frenetic first single, “I Luv It,” featuring Playboi Carti. The track is an entirely new direction for Camila who first rose to fame in 2012 as a member of the girl group Fifth Harmony.
On her new album Camila is racing into uncharted territory with her sound. She enlisted producers Jasper Harris and El Guincho, who’s known for his work with Rosalia. Together they introduce a variety of new sounds into Camila’s orbit including the newest sounds in hip-hop. The result is Camila’s edgiest album yet.
Today Justin Richmond talks to Camila about the very particular set of creative influences that inspired her new album, including a book by Joan Didion. She also talks about having features from Drake on her album, why she wanted to make music for Miami Spring breakers.
You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite Camila Cabello songs HERE.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. Camila Cabello is in the midst of a creative revival.
Her brand new album, c Xoxo was recently dubbed hyper
pop by Rolling Stone in the wake of the frenetic
first single I Love It featuring Playboy Carti. The track
is an entirely new direction for Camilla, who first rose
(00:35):
to fame in twenty twelve as a member of the
girl group Fifth Harmony. She's been a successful solo artist
for nearly a decade now, scoring Billboard hits with Havana
and Senorita, among others. On her new album, though, Camilla
is racing into uncharted territory with her sound. She enlisted
producers Jasper Harris and Alguinho, who's known for his work
with Rosalia. Together they introduced a variety of new sounds
(00:59):
into Camila's orbit, including all the latest sounds in hip hop,
and the result is Camilla's edgiest album yet. On today's episode,
I talked to Kamila about the every particular set of
creative influences that inspired her new album, including a book
by Joan Didion. She also talks about having features from
Drake on a new album and why she wanted to
make music for Miami spring Breakers. This is broken record
(01:25):
liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's
my conversation with Camilla like Abeo, taped live at the
Amazon Music Studios in Culver City. At what point during
like a new album sort of cycle, as you're creating
it and getting into going into market it, at what
point do you stop and decide what like the tour
(01:46):
is going to look like and set lists and visuals
and stuff like, at what point in the creative process
does that start to well?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I think this was an album that was really like
early on in tandem with writing it, I was kind
of like drying up like pinterrest boards and stuff, and
that kind of influenced the music. Like I remember, you know,
kind of putting together this Pinterest board of kind of
like what cx SO look like to me, And a
lot of it was what you're kind of going to
(02:13):
see on the festival stage, like you know, like the
BMX culture in Miami and like the spring Breakers and
the kind of girls with the sche mass and it
being kind of like this kind of almost like girl
gang vibe and like the XOXO girls. Like I kind
of was thinking of that while we were in the studio,
(02:33):
So it's been pretty easy in that sense. It hasn't
been very like oh shit, what are we gonna do?
Because I feel like this album kind of started as
I was like, Okay, I feel like I've always been
such a song driven artist, Like everything to me was
always like how do I just make the best song,
the best you know, like you know, the best chorus melody,
(02:55):
and how do I make this lyric really good? I
thought of things as very just kind of like self
contained in the songs, and then I think, as I've
gotten older, the next level is having this kind of
world or aesthetic, which I feel like Lana does so
well or you know, like I feel like that's like
the next evolution for me is having like great songs
obviously because that's so important to me, and and that's
(03:18):
like obviously, like I feel like the like my starting
point is.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Just like if that's the bedrock for.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
D yeah, that's the bedrock for for everything.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
But like, yeah, the songs for you clearly seem like
the bedrock. But this album good songs, but there's definitely.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Have you heard it yet?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I have? I have, I have.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
It's really good, really good and everything.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Well it's I'll say the first time I heard it
was with the new single or the first single, I
love it. Yeah, and it shocked me, you know what,
like that. It was funny, I think, and even going
through I love looking at YouTube comments because they're both
like the cesspool of society but also a bit of I.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Love looking at other people's YouTube comments. Mine make me
want to jump into this not even graphic just like a.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Really fast card, but no, it is.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
It is such a good like just like human experiment project,
like what do people But okay.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
It is mad. I mean it's mad, it's like a
bunch of but but there's also it's also like interesting
to sort of just see how people are processing certain things.
And it was funny over time when that album first
or when the song first came out and the video
first came out to see the shock that people had.
I think, even just like you going blonde like shocked people.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah, you know, totally, but.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
It's funny like returning to it, like over the last
week or so, you started to see people are kind
of catching up with what you're doing. Yeah, And so
I had a similar experience with the entire album, which
was the first time listening, it's what it's been like, Wow,
it was really I love hearing that expecting it. But
then by the third, fourth, fifth listening, I.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Love hearing that because I feel like that's a really
honest take, because I feel like, for me, it's like
I've been living with these songs for a year now,
and I've been living with.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
The world and the kind of like.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Aesthetic evolution for a while now, and so I've obviously
for me, I'm like I kind of my brain was
probably like just expects people to just be as excited
and and and lean into it as much as I
am in the moment, But it.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Really is important for me to hear you say that that.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's so true like with my favorite artists too, like
when it's something that you know you haven't heard from
them before, it takes you a second to warm up
to understand, to recontextualize them. And I remember even like, for example,
Anti like work by Rihanna.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
At first, I was like.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
What, like, I'm so confused, Like I don't know if
I like this, And then I think it was like
a couple months later, I was like, this is the
best song of all time, but it.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
And the one of the best albums and one of
them that whole decade of her career of R and
B period, And I.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Think it also I'm not by any means like because
I don't think comparisons like.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
That exist, but I think it.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I always like, I'm thinking about that now and I'm like,
oh yeah, that also took us, like took a second.
And I think it's so true when you, like, when
you pivot and you're trying to do like something new,
it just like takes people a second and you shouldn't
take it personally.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Absolutely, But also even before hearing the album or the singles,
I was super shocked and excited that you were working
with Elgwen Show. Yeah, because I mean I've been listening
to Elgwen Show for like a decade now. Really incredible
artist like his like his artists, Yeah, yeah, yeah, his
head that he's he's phenomenally phenomenal. And it was like shot.
(06:35):
I was like wait a second, like she's like because
she's got interesting tastes, like how did how did it happen?
Because he's not the obvious.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Choice as as like somebody in the pops.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah you're a pops. I mean you're an artist, but
you're also your pop star, which I feel like, do
you kind of probably have to work to appease both,
but I don't.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I don't really work to like appease both.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And I've never really been somebody who, like, I don't
really try to cater to what I think people want
from me or expect from me. I really just like
every time, I just kind of follow my instincts. And
you know, I remember my first album, like I worked
with like Frank Duke's and you know, he had never
worked with like a pop artist before, somebody coming from
like a girl group who was like a pop girl group,
(07:18):
you know.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And I think with Green Show, I think I gravitate
to people that take risks and you know, make kind
of like fresh choices, and I feel like he's somebody
that has such a like consistent fresh perspective, especially on
like because I don't even know, I wouldn't even say, like,
I wouldn't say Rose is like a pop stars, do
(07:40):
you know what I mean? Like she kind of exists
in her on lane, and I really that's kind of
what I'm working towards, is like I don't want to
be perceived as like a pop girl. I just kind
of want to be me like outside of that. But anyway,
but back to gen show, Yeah, I mean, I just
I love like weirdos in the music space, and I
love like weirdo producers.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I love weirdo.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Artists, and I really try to like always like align
myself with the weirdos because I think they pull. Because
I feel like the weirdos are are the ones that
are not afraid to take risks.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
They're not trying to like.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Have you know, oh, what's been the thing that's working,
and how can we make something that works like the
thing that we know that's gonna work? Like they I
feel like they're the people that are gonna make unpredictable choices.
They're the people that are gonna, you know, drive the
label people crazy because they're like, we know that this
is weird. We know that this, you know, is like
(08:37):
a leap from the stuff she's done before. And I
like those people because they make me also bold enough
to follow those instincts in myself.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
And that's when I feel happiest. I feel happiest.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
When like I make a song like you know, I
love it or he knows where I feel like I've
done something different and something that feels like I followed
my curiosity than just like having a big song that
doesn't like excite me.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, Like when when it's something that feels creatively fulfilling
and it hits commercially totally.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
I mean, if it hits commercial, no complaints here.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
But I think if I had to pick one, I
feel like I always feel better when it's when it
feels like when I just feel proud of it.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah, yeah, so yeah, But I mean it felt in
so many ways like the pop world was kind of
just catching up to you anyways. You grew up your Cuban,
your Mexican, you grew up in Miami, And it's been
incredible to see over the last handful of years the
way that like popular culture and pop music has has
sort of enmeshed with like Latin culture and Latin music,
(09:41):
particularly from the Caribbean. You know, es is so much
of the sound of your early records, your earlier records,
So it's like not only is it like a detour
from what you've been doing, but it's like kind of
like you're deviating also from where popular music is going,
and popul music was like turning towards you. So it's
(10:01):
like it's a really bold moves. It's it's really I
don't know. It was really impressive to me listening to
it that that's, yeah, where you're deciding to go. Now,
this is where you're deciding to go.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Well, I think I when I'm in the studio, I
really am just like I'm writing for myself and I'm
making music for myself. And if I'm just like, oh,
this feels like you know, Havana Part three, then I
feel like I get kind of bored, you know. And
I also think like I feel like this was almost
a new take on you know for me, like Havannah
and drawing on those sounds from my culture was like
(10:35):
me exploring those parts of myself at that time. And
I also was like, Okay, what perspective do I have
that nobody or other people don't, you know, And that
felt fresh at the time, Like at that time, Havana
was like whoa, Like this is like super weird because
it has this kind of like Cuban you know, like
done son piano, but it has like these eight O
(10:55):
waights Like that was like fresh at that time. Now
it's like like you said like it.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
We hear that.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
A lot, so it's kind of like, okay, like what's
I'm just always like, okay, what haven't I heard that
I would want to here? And I almost feel like
this album feels like the other stuff was exploring kind
of Latin culture, Cuban culture, you know, sometimes like the
Mexican like Madiachi music on my last album, Familia, and
(11:23):
this one is like more Miami, which I feel like
is like, you know, it's like this melting pot of
like you're driving around in Miami and you hear like afrobeat,
you hear rigaton, you hear hip hop.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
You hear like a lot of these different things.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
You still live in Miami, right, Yeah, how do you
experience Miami differently now from when you were a kid?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
I think I like it more now because I think
when you grow up in a place, you always I
feel like, just don't appreciate it. Yeah, right, just like
this is boring, and I think living in other places
and spending a lot of time in LA and spending
not to hate on LA, but you know what I mean,
like but a little bit, but that's up. You know what, though,
(12:13):
it's different when it's your hometown because I get it
very totally different experience when I'm.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Here in Miami. In LA are very similar in the
sense of like, people come to LA and I was like,
that's wow, it's so flashy, it's so and then I
go to i.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Fla to Miami and I'm guilty, guilty, this is how
people feel.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Come to LA because all of a sudden, I'm like, what,
like me too, I mean I came everywhere, come.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
To LA and I'm like, what, like, I don't feel
like the real people like I don't feel.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
And and you probably the same one. People come to Miami.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
They're like, oh, you're at like Nikki Beach and I'm like, no,
I've been there one time.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
That's not the experience I get in Miami. I think.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
I think, like, for example, like making this album in Miami,
like when I'm in writing mode, I'm like, I was
talking about this the other day. It's almost like you're
just like looking at everything with like just extra attention,
you know what I mean, and it makes you There's
this quote that says something like, look at your city
with the eyes of a tourist, like with the eyes
(13:07):
of somebody that's like never there before. And I remember
just I'm trying to say like more and like less
in general and interviews because I feel like I say
like a lot.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Good luck.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yeah, I know, I say it's so much.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I'm trying interview, so I'm happy you're doing.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Oh no cursing is that's that'll be the last thing
to go.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
But the likes, Damn, it's just like I just insert
it instead of a pause, but I'll just pause.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
But anyway, Yeah, I feel like, fuck it whatever.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I feel like I would just go into the studio
and just kind of just and even be driving back
at night and be like, Wow, these lights. You don't
get this like specific shade of yellow and orange anywhere else.
Or you don't get this kind of music. You don't get,
you know, this kind of what they call Miami English.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
You know, the.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Slang and the whatever anywhere else you don't get the
you know, the the this look of the skyline you
don't get you know. I was just really looking at
it with extra attention, and I think looking at anything
with extra attention, everything becomes more beautiful. Yeah, And I
think that's kind of how I feel about Miami. I
(14:17):
suddenly was looking at it for writing purposes, for research purposes,
and you know, writing down everything that felt to me
like you know, like representative of her.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
And is that part of your writing process as you're
living your life and going around doing things, something strikes
you in the moment. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, But I notice, for example, like right now, I'm
in rehearsal mode, and so when I'm not in rehearsal,
like I'll be like looking at the videos, or I'll
be practicing, or I'll be whatever. And then writing time,
when I'm like making an album is the time where
I have the luxury of just being like I wake
up in the morning and I you know, bring my
(15:00):
iPad to like a coffee shop and I'll just like
write down anything. If I had any kind of adventures
that week or whatever, I'll just kind of write it
down like a diary entry, or I'll just kind of
be able to have the time to really take stock
of everything.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
And write it down.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
But for example, like right now, it's like this whole
phase of my life where I'm rehearsing, there could be
tons of things I could be writing about if I
was making an album.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, I'm going to ask a lot of just like
weird because I'm obsessed with like the demands of being
like a pop star, you know, and and I know
you're feeling like and that's why. But it's like, because
it's like it is a very unique lifestyle and unique
from me. Even there's only a certain percentage of people
(15:49):
in the world who are in the arts, and even
smaller percentage of people who are in the arts and
could be considered pop stars. So it's like, is there
there Your life sort of is lived in phases necessarily,
is there a phase of life that you yes, like
more dislike the most? Like what were my writing phase?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
The writing phase is my favorite for me. But when I,
for example, if we were in the studio for more
than two weeks, I would need to take a break
and then just live some life because I run out
of things to say, you know, because I usually just
have thoughts and ideas, and then I'm like, well, I
don't have anything else to say because I've been in
the studio with you motherfuckers for the last two weeks.
(16:29):
So there's you know, I got to go and go
on a date. I gotta go get on a fight
with someone, and I get something because otherwise, you know,
I think the buck stops here, So it usually is
like for me, that's usually my favorite phase is like
the year of like writing, and then you.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Go take a few days off writing, take a few
days off, come back writing.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I'm back. Like.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I love that because I also that's a time where
I feel like I'm also when I'm writing, I'm devouring
other forms of art as input. So I'm like reading
a lot, listening to a lot of music, watching a
lot of movies, even like going to see like physical
art in museums because I feel like I benefit from
(17:12):
a lot of input and then I get like newer
and newer forms of output.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
After a quick break, we'll be back with more from
Kamila Cabello. We're back with Kamila Cabello. What were you
taking in like in the beginning stages of this album
or throughout?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Oh, I wrote it down on my iPad? Can I
pull it out?
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah? Incredible.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Brought my iPad because I had it felt like, you know,
if there's any podcasts that I can nerd out and
bring my my trustee Patty, please, this is the iPad
I wrote down like some of the books and like
some of the references and stuff so these are the
books that I read. Okay, so Joan Diddy and the
White Album.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Oh that's a great book.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Great, great book, right, Candy House, Jennifer Egan, Bird by
Bird by m LaMotte.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Did you ever read that? It's about writing?
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Really? Yeah, I'm gonna have to check that out. I
don't know it.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Bird by Bird, My Year of Rest and Relaxation. Uh,
Metamorphosis by Friends Friends.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Kafka, Wow, you're reading some co I was.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Reading some classics, but I was mostly reading. I was
reading a lot of Sally Rooney. I was reading a
lot of books by girls going through things in their
twenties because I was like, I just love the like
inner dialogue, and I wanted to have exactly exactly what
else did I write down here? This poetry podcast poetryon Bound.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
But I love that podcast. It really has taught me
so much.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Oh, these are just like things like kind of guidelines
of c xoxo.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
But what I don't know I want to hear that's.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Well, this is just yeah, like this is just some stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Like I remember talking to my therapist a lot about this.
This album kind of being about questions without answers, and
you know that quote that's like uh Rainer Maria Rilka,
that's like Livia Questions, where it's like letters to a
young poet where he's like, but I don't.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Know what to do, like do I do this with
my life? Do I do this with my life?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
And he's like, don't wait until you know the answer,
live your questions. And I feel like a lot of
my songs before were very like bam bam, it's like
we broke up and yay, and you know, my own
lind it's like he's a bad boy and ooh and
you know, it's very kind of these neat neat lines. Yeah, totally,
(19:36):
Whereas I feel like a lot of these songs are
almost like zooming in on one moment, which is my
favorite thing about poetry. For example, where it's like I
don't know, like twenty some things is like.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
It's like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, it's a lot of ankst. It's a lot of
not knowing.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
A lot of not knowing totally not being sure of
yourself even I love It. It is just like a zoom
in on just a very tiny feeling.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Do you remember the genesis of I Love It?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah? I do.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
We were thinking about so we had maybe like fifty
percent of the album kind of done, and then one
day I was like, okay, well what would be our
first or track one because we were kind of starting
to mock up a track list and I was listening
to a lot of Cardi and I played this one
song by Cardi called mister Rage.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
You know that song.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I don't know that one so good, but I was
just like, whoa, the energy of that I was so
obsessed with. I think I've always gravitated towards since and
this album.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
I was like, let's just let's just go there.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Leaned, I leaned in ye and so yeah, so Jasper
started playing those chords and then I went in the
booth and I started singing the verse, the.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Supersonic you of Ita Nana. It probably was.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
It probably wasn't all the words, but I do think
supersonic was the was a word that was in the
because I usually that's how I write. It's like kind
of like freestyle mumble and then kind of fill in
the words after cool. Yeah. And so then I saw
the guys and they were like, oh my god, and
I was like, yeah, I love it. And the auto
tune kind of did something and then I like kind
(21:19):
of kept singing it and they were like yeah, like
keep saying it whatever, and then that's how the chorus happened.
And then gin Cho put in that Lemonade sample right
because I think and I think he'll probably explain to
like where he was thinking about it, But we were
at that time, we were already like, this is a
Miami album, and we were thinking of like people from
Miami or Miami Transplants or spring Breakers and Gucci Mane
(21:43):
kind of yeah, like straddles both of those things, spring
Breakers and Miami Transplant and yep, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Oh my god, that's so literally the I was an aspect.
I love it, I love it, I love it. It was
just because they were kept telling you keep going on.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, But I think but I think before I probably
before this album, I wouldn't have kept going with a
choice like that. I would have been like, no, you know,
this needs more words, right, And I think that you know,
in this album, one like listening to people like Cardi
where it is you know, it feels instinctive and visceral,
and then also learning that you know, repetition is also intentional.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Yeah, you know it sounds like the feeling.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
There's a power in a print, you know. It's that
Prince on Joy and repetition. There's like a joy or
power and and sometimes there's like a like all right,
you know, because that's the thing with repetition. I love it.
I love it. It's like cool. And then it's like
halfway through it's like kind of I'm kind of done
with this.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
But then you change the note or something.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Something, or you just keep going and by the end
of you like, wait, I'm in Like.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
This is incredibly Yes, it's so true.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
There's a power, there's a there's a there's a there
really is a power in.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
It because it hits your body differently. Yeah, every time you.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Say it, every time, every single time.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
What are the ways in which because you worked with
Jasper Harris as well, Yes and el Gwen show, Yes,
what are the ways in which they kind of pushed
you or took you out of your comfort zone? Oh?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
So much? That was they took me on my comfort zone.
The whole time. I was like, can y'all just leave
me in here for a second?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
But no, I love that about them, And that's actually
that's why I wanted to work with them. And I
think That's why I probably really expanded my references. And
if I would show up and be like, oh, like
I love this song, then they would show me, you know,
eight more kind of underground songs that I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
And I feel like.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
That really yeah, just kind of like it expanded, you know,
my kind of input folder.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
And are there any of the names that like they
shared with you that are on there totally?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
I mean I don't think I've really listened to they
are like, we're massive, massive Cardi fans, Like they talked
about Cardi so so much, and I think that made me, like,
then I started listening to him more. And like, you know,
uh Im Triplin, Pabula showed me Im Triplin. I mean,
so many people, even like ethel Kine Jasper showed me.
(24:09):
They showed me a lot of, like I feel like,
amazing artists and amazing songs. For example, I remember this
one song Dreamgirls, like we were in the Bahamas.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
We went to Bahamas.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
And and jazz yes wow.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And literally we were just we just barely saw the sunlight,
like we were just in the studio the whole time.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
I was so tired by the time we left. It
was so much but we got a.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Lot of the album done there, but anyway that this
was after like Chanel number five and a lot of
the I feel like thesis, which Chanel number five I
consider kind of like the thesis statement, like the centerpiece
of the table that is cxoxo. And for example, like
we were we were working on dream Girls in the Bahamas,
(25:00):
and you know, I would do like I would write
the verse or whatever, and they'd be like, yeah, like
it's it's good, but I feel like it's like I
don't know, it's like Chanelle number five, like you did that,
you know, like I feel like there's like this bar now.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
And I did like maybe three more.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Versions of verses, and I was like at some point
I was like they were just hating, like what do
they want from it? But they were right, they were right,
and I you know, I I pushed myself and I
got the verse that I got like out of dream
Girls because I feel like they are consistently challenging me
(25:39):
and pushing me to be like it's good, but it's
not excellent. Right, Everybody needs people like that, you know,
Like that's like that kind of we constantly had that
creative tension where we were always you know, getting into
little things, but in a good way because I think
it really it constantly pushed me to be better. And
(26:04):
I you know, I tell them this all the time,
Like I was, like, you guys have made me a
better writer and a better art artists and you know.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Had a typical way of working in the studio free before.
Like would you have those kinds of dust ups with
with collaborators, producers, writers in the past.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
I did with like I did with Frank for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Like I think that that push and pull is it's
important because it's so easy for things to just be Yeah,
and it can happen even with yourself. I can it
can happen with myself where I can be like I
like that melody. That melody is cool, and this lyric
is cool, and that's a cool and that's.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
A cool song. I like it.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And it's easy to just put out things that are
just cool. And I've done it, you know what I mean.
But it's not a business for them. There really are
about craftsmanship and about respecting the craft and the integrity
of a project and the integrity of things.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
And they're real artists, they really are, both of them.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
And yeah, they really I'm I think the thing that
I'm the most thankful for for this project is how
much I feel like it leveled. It made me step
my game up as a writer.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Confident.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Oh my god, yes, yeah totally. I just feel like
I learned so much. I feel like it was a
boot camp for me. And I think, you know, when
I listened to even now, because I'm in rehearsals and
I'm listening to older songs and whatever, I'm like, I
can see, for example, where oh this line could have
been tweaked or this could could have been better on
(27:33):
old songs based on what I know now, because I
think before, I think I was just following instincts and
doing the best with whatever instincts I had at that moment.
But now I feel like I've have guide guidelines for
what I think is cool.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Can I tell you some of that please?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
And I was just thinking, I was just thinking out loud.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I was like, I feel like I became a big
fan of just like Show Don't Tell.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Show Don't Tell. How do you think that comes up
in the album.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Like instead of being like, instead of being like he's
so obsessed with me, it's like fold for me, Like
Origami Oh does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, that's a way better line.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Is way better line.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
But I hope that didn't sound doesn't sound obnoxious because
I have what I'm saying is I before I probably
would have said things like something said and more tried
to be like. I follow this Instagram account called the
Paris Review, and I think Greta Gerwig said something like
the only way to make something universal is like to
make it as specific as possible.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yes, yes, and it's right, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
And it's like Taylor has been saying that for such
a long time and rappers have been doing that for
such a long time, where it's like, you know, and
ginshow is like a huge hip hop head, so he
would always tell me, you know, I would come in
with my perspective of like probably more pop songwriting, which
is like the beginning of the story, middle of the story,
end of the story, and he'd be like, you know,
(28:59):
in rap songs, it's like you're in this scene and
now you're in the car, and now you're in the bar,
and now you're here and now you know, there's a
glass and now there's shoes and the shoes are beige,
and now there's like it's like all sensory and colors
and painting all of these different pictures where it's like
a movie that you can see in your head and
like these flash cuts. And I learned so much from that,
(29:21):
and I learned so much from rappers and.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Hip hop and the way that I saw.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Jay Z said something that Sizza reposted yesterday, which is like,
you know when people are like, I don't know, like
Paul McCartney is one of the greatest writers of all time.
I think Biggie Smalls is too, you know where it's
like the.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
I think Paul would probably agree with that.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, totally, totally. I don't even think he said Paul mcartny.
I think he said somebody else, but I can't remember.
But it's like, yeah, just like the it's like it's
like poetry, and because poetry is so sensory and visual.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
And I don't think I was conscious of that before.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I think, like, coincidentally, my favorite songs that I've ever
done before, like first Man from a from a writing perspective,
I'm like, I'm so proud of that song thank You, or.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Used to This that I did with Phineas.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
There's like they're very specific and like the callouses on
your fingers. Like every time, I was like, this is
one of my favorite songs.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I did that.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
That's a good point. Yeah, that's a great line too.
There's calases on your finger and I forget how long ago,
and now I feel them on my face and yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
And I admire them from a distance. Now they're on
my cheeks. And I think Phineas and Billy do that
a lot too. But I think this album, I was
really like, this is what I like this, this is
my ship.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Sally Rooney does it, Joan Didion does it, and I
and and and I.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
I just yeah, I was like, this is the show.
Don't tell album. I don't want to do these universal statements.
I wanted to be as sensory as possible, which is
why I think Chanel number five is my favorite song
that I've that I've written, because I feel like it
is written from that kind of like rap perspective where
it's just like, oh, Makassi shabari whoop.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Yeah, you know, it's like all these different pictures.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
No. So that's so that's why that's like the mission
statement of the album for you, Shanela.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, because I feel like it's like it has I
feel like all of my tastes and all the things
I like coming together, which is like this like kind
of whimsical, alternative, weird thing and then like hip hop.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Yeah, in one song.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Are there were there other kind of guide guidelines you
kind of wanted?
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, I feel like show Don't Tell was one, right,
I think the sensory thing was big.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
There really is a visceralness like to that to the album,
and and it's you know what's funny has I hadn't
really thought about it, but you know, we always talk
about like the album and then the visuals, and then
we think about them as these I think because there
are visuals and going back to MTV or whatever, there's
there's always visuals. You can rely on the video to
(31:56):
provide the like this is what what this is, how
I'm seeing. This is how you should see the song,
you know. But what is cool about this album is
like you're able to see the song before you see
a visuals. You know.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Honestly, I think that I was listening to so much rap,
and I think that that probably influenced because I love
melodies and I love like pop melodies, like I love
like a I love a melody but I do feel
like I love when a rap song comes out and
I like go on genius and have to be like,
(32:31):
what is this?
Speaker 3 (32:32):
What is this?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
They just there's like so many things, like tangible things.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Were you were you like a big hip hop fan
growing up or not as much I was.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
But I think I leaned into it more for this
album because also gin Show and Jasper.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Were showing me so many more things too.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
We I think when you're making an album with people,
you kind of obviously it's like it's you, but you're
also in the room with these people like ten hours
a day, and you're gonna be talking about your favorite
songs and wherever there's overlapt you know, Like I feel
like they're such huge like hip hop and rap lovers.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Like I think we kind of like that's what we.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Your love, your love of melody, their sort of sense
of like really like deep love of knowledge of hip hop,
kind of blending those.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Two exactly totally.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
It's amazing, totally talking about your love of hip hop
going on genius. Drake is on two songs on the album. Yes,
but how we feel about this Drake, what I mean
Drake is kind of it's going through hard time right now.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
I'm you know, I obviously have huge respect for both
of them, but I also something that's really important to
me and my friendships and as a value is is
loyalty and also and speaking the truth about people that
you know. And I really will talk all day about
(34:00):
how generous he was to work with, like throughout this
whole process, how much he really is like a true
music lover who was like, oh, like, you know, I
want to like hear your album, and I want to
see the video, and I want to contribute something and
I'm so excited about what you're doing and I and
(34:22):
genuinely like, you know, does not need anything from me,
but was is I feel like always you know, puts
other people on. So I DMed him. I was like, hey,
I would love to play my album. He was like,
I'd love to hear it, and.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
So then we met up and I played in my
album and it was kind of like a little bit
more in the rough stages, but I played him number five,
I played I Love It, I played him twenty somethings,
and he played me some of for all the Dogs Wow,
And I was like, I remember having this moment where
I was like, Wow, this is crazy because I listened
(34:57):
to Drake before I was even.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Famous or whatever. Famous is a lame word, but you
know what.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
I mean, Yeah, you got famous young. I mean yeah,
before you were famous. Yeah that's that's your truth.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
So anyway, so yeah, then I think it was like
a couple of weeks later he sent me this kind
of demo, this hot up town, and he.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Was like, what do you think about this? I like,
I kind of think this could be sick. And I
was like, oh my god, I love it.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
And I went into the studio with Pablo in Miami
and I was like, I am not wasting any time.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
And I wrote my parts like whatever.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
And then we kind of cut back and forth to
make it sound like a duet and sent it to
him and he was like hard and all caps, and
I was like.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Did it? Did it? Had? That must have been kind
of big for guin show too, like I'd imagine that's it.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
And and Jazpers like the biggest drap Like we're always like, well,
he's the best.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Like he's got did you can Jasper? Because I'm not
super familiar with.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Them, but I know Jasper is they're both fucking geniuses.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Like they're just insane, and Jasper is it's really rare
to find producers like both of them, and I'm lucky
I got two where it's their taste. It's not even
that they're just musically talented and that they you'll be
talking about an idea and they will pick the right
pick the best chords, which Jasper does. But it's also
(36:39):
he sees like a larger vision and he sees, you know, oh,
this flow would be so sick, and like this person
would be so sick on that song and.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
This texture and whatever.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Like his taste level is just amazing, and he's always
putting me onto new music too. He's always talking about McGee.
I don't know what McGhee, he's always that's that's his latest.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
So Gwen Show was first, and then Jasper.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah, Green Show was first, and yeah, he was act
the first producer that I reached out to for this project.
And yeah, and so we did like a few songs
and then we I think I worked with maybe a
couple more people, and then I was like, no, Green
Show is it?
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Green Show?
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Is it? Well? It's interesting too because I feel like
Familia was the first time, I mean, you worked with
Frank Duke's a lot. But I feel like Ricky Reid
on Familia was like the first time seemed like you
like really bunkered down with someone and like was like,
we're going to do this like one to one, you know.
I mean there's more people involved in that record, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
One hundred.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
I think with Frank it was like me and him.
But I was so it was my first album, so
I was like, oh my god, like I had, you know,
the most imposter syndrome, and I was like, well, we
must have the best people in town to help, you know.
And I think the second album it was like that
(38:04):
but a little bit less. And then I think the
third album familiar. I was like, you know, I want
to do this with a small group of people, like
we can do it and it feels better. And and
I think for me, like writing is so you know,
I'm just like I'm sensitive and I just can't open
up if it's like somebody I don't know, like I
(38:24):
saw it.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
I had to kick someone out.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
You did you kicked something? We won't to say who.
You kicked someone out.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
I don't know his name, but you know, like.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
And so even like if I can't be like vulnerable
and intimate in my writing. If it's like my first
day meeting you. That's why I think. I think that
is also something I've learned, like from now on, it's
always going to have to be.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
The same.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Small, tiny family for an album, because otherwise I just
can't open up. And there were even some songs here
that I would kick, you know, I would kick Pablo
and jazz Bro Yeah, you know, like I like twenty
somethings in June Gloom. I was like, I can't write
this chorus with you guys in here like that.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Just get out.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
After one last break, we'll be back with more from
Camilla Cabeo. We're back with the rest of my conversation
with Camila Cabello. I was talking to him, boy, I
was like, you know, because he did that run of
like he did four or five NODS records, like where
he was the sole producer, and it was interesting, like not
in the documentary. Did you see that in Hip Hop Revolution? Yeah? Well,
(39:34):
and then going back to like Ellmatic, that first NODS
record is the first time that like someone was like,
I'm gonna work with all these different producers and they
were like.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
The top producers at the top, ye.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Q Tip Premiere, who else is on that large professor whatever, whatever, whatever,
But it's it's it's funny, and I feel like that
opened up a thing where people work with a bunch
of different producers, like these big camps, and that sort
of become the thing.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
But it gives me anxiety to be honest with you,
because I actually did that. I remember from my first album,
I you know, it was Frank and then I went
into like Max Martin's thing.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
And I read I was a Max Martin.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
I mean I was, to be honest, I was so young.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
I was like twenty, which I don't know, maybe that
doesn't seem that young, but for my age at that time,
I was like kind of seventeen inside yeah, you know,
because I started at fifteen.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
So I was just like, my god, and it was
Max Martin, Like I was like, what the fuck? What
am I doing?
Speaker 2 (40:30):
This is so much and I at that time, Max Martin,
I'm working with Pharrell. I was like, what is going on?
And I just wanted to prove myself to these people.
I literally wasn't even thinking to be honest with you,
which is not the way to be. But I wasn't
even thinking about what's gonna make the best song?
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Walking out of here? I was just trying to prove
that I was good to Parrell.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Well, how do you do that as you're twenty and
you're in a studio with Pharrell?
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Literally wanted him to think I was good. I didn't
even care like this song, I didn't care. I was
just like, I just want Pharrell to walk out of
here thinking I'm a good writer.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Period?
Speaker 1 (41:04):
What can I bring to this? Really? As a toy
like that? You know, it's like you kind of I
could imagine that feeling.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
It's just I think when it's like too many superstar,
so many superstar producers, it kind of just makes me anxious.
Like even Ginsho in the beginning, I was so nervous.
I felt like I needed needed to prove myself to him,
and I would tell him is the tea?
Speaker 3 (41:22):
And Ricky too, and.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Frank God, I'm so so vulnerable with all of them.
But that's what you can do when you, you know,
hunker down.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
With people, you can be like.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
I remember, like I would literally be like, are you
comparing me to blink right now?
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Because I'm crazy and I have way I need more
of a filter. And he would be like, what are
you kidding?
Speaker 2 (41:45):
No, what, But then you see them as a human,
which is where I need to be in order to write.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
I cannot see you as a superstar producer.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Rachel too is just like a cool factor too that
I could have met, Like, I mean I never I
never met him, but just like listening to his music,
You're like, that's a guy who knows a lot about
a lot.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Well he yeah, I mean he he schooled the fuck
out of me, which is amazing. But that I want
to be around people who school me constantly because that's
the only way that I can get better. Yeah, And
I feel like that's like what I feel like mad
made this album so creatively fulfilling and rewarding is that
I wasn't fucking school Like I was like, you know,
(42:24):
I was listening to classic albums that I'd never heard
before because.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
I grew up music. It was all Latin music.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
It was Latin music plus Michael Jackson, Universal period and
that that was.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Pretty much it.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
So I kind of went back and I was like, oh,
what is this radiohead that people keep talking about?
Speaker 3 (42:47):
You know what it like?
Speaker 2 (42:49):
So I think, yeah, I just like did a lot
of studying on this album.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
That's cool. So do you think all this is going
to inform the next thing, the next thing moving forward
your career your I.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Think so, Yeah, for sure, I think I you know,
I think like gin Cho and like I think that
I always kind of need to work with people like
gin Cho who really know their shit and.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
Just hold me to like a higher standard.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Yeah, And I think that's like, Yeah, something I really
learned is just really putting a lot of love and
care into something, which I feel like I really did.
I put a lot of love and care into it,
and I just love it.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
It's a very cool. It's a great album. I'm still
I still like I love it a lot of it
because it is straight up and it's like the funny
thing too, is you kicked it off with like the
the strength, the weirdest song on the album, like you
didn't hold it. You didn't hold you didn't hold back,
like you were just like we're announced album, we're going
and it is so it's like abrasive. It's abrasive copy.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Yeah, and I actually hate when I Do you think
I was right when I.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Called it hyper pop?
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yeah? I don't know, Okay, I don't know what that means.
People say it.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
I don't because I like said it and then it
was like this hyper pop song and I was like, guys,
it's not though, like it's it's so many things at
the same time.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Yeah, it's it's a lot of things. I mean, it's
a lot of it's a very it's a visceral record.
I mean the stuff on me that sounds like like
that no wave stuff like that, like that late seventies,
early eighties New York like underground club stuff. It's just
so it's such a I don't know, just ooze is
like a cool I think that I love it. Yeah,
it is it.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
I also think like that's it.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
You know.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
I was telling my choreographer, uh, my choreographers, Calvit and
Sarah Yesterday, who I've worked with for a long time,
because we have like I love it and we have
like Dave County dreaming.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
Did you hear it?
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, I think it's you the album enough because I
got sent to stream and the link was but I
can't wait to hear it.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
But like on both of those songs, I feel like
I I yeah, I feel like mainly most of those
songs man Hot of Town and I don't know me,
but mostly.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
I not z x cut is really cool too. I
mean he sounds like really he sounds amazing.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
Though, no, he went crazy on his verse.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (45:18):
He's really close with Jasper, and so I think we
were always just kind of like in the same family
circles and uh he Jasper like played him my album
and he loved it. And I think we've always been
like kind of like loving and supportive of each other
for the past, like since we've met, like six years ago,
and I just always loved him. I just think he's
(45:39):
like such an incredible artist. And we were thinking of
like who to have on that song, and Jasper was like, oh,
like what about nas And he had never done a
feature before at that time, so I was like, I
don't know if he's going to do it, but we asked,
and we were so excited about the idea of like
us both singing about the same guy or fighting over
the same guy, because it's just like I just never
(46:02):
seen that before.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
It's just such a such a funny concept and perfect
challenges having just come out like the same person. It's
like that kind of drama of that. And he's like, yeah,
I wasn't sure what to expect from it, you know,
like what he would sound like on it, And it
is really cool, like I don't know, it sounds like
he's almost in character or something like he's.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Playing with new stuff too, because he said the other.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Day he was playing with the kind of like like
kind of like Jamaican like New York, like the sounds
like the.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
Whatever.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Like yeah, he's kind of you know, exploring different things
in his different pockets too.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
But I was gonna say about Dade County Dreaming and
I love it. I feel like those were feelings that
I always put on other people's music to tap into,
like this feeling of like bravado or cockiness or like
you know, like which I feel like rap gives you.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Like this feeling of just like can't fuck with me?
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Yeah you know what I mean. Those songs have that.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
And yeah, I'm just like excited that I get to
kind of I feel like I am able to embody
that now in my own music.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
I love it. I love it. Have you had a
chance to go to Cuba?
Speaker 3 (47:16):
I was born there, but like back when I was fourteen.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
When what was the how was how was that I
haven't been.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Able to go again just because like passport issues and
stuff like that. But it was it was like right
before I auditioned for X Factor and my grandparents.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
No, my grandma was still living there at the time.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Now she lives in Miami and I had tons of
family there. I still have family there, but a lot
of people have come to Miami now, thank god. Honestly,
what I mostly remember is like I was like obsessed
with Justin Bieber.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
At the time. They had no Internet.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yeah yeah, and like they only had like the like
an email app and like Solitaire, but they had no
Internet at all.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
So when the whole.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
World was obsessed with like Justin Bieber, They're like, we
don't know who that is. And I was like, no, guys,
Justin Bieber, No for sure, No, I don't know. I
haven't been back, but.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Yeah, the situation is rough.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
It's yeah, it's bad. I was there a few years back.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
And what was your experience?
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Very very strange, strange, Like it was a weird experience
because the people are so incredible.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
The people are.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Just precious, some of the greatest people on the planet
that I've come across.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
Warm, so warm, so generous, so loving. My mommy's Cuban.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yeah that's who is right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a warmth, man,
there's just a warmth. But you know, then obviously, but
then you're like also balancing that with that and obviously
the country itself is beautiful.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
The terrainanape, the landscapes insane.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
But then then you but then you're also a knowledge
and you're like, you know, remember I met a guy there,
amazing guy, so cool, and he was like showing us
around and we're like, come, like, come have dinner, Like,
let's just get your dinner. And he was like, this
is the first time I've had like lobster in twenty years.
Like how you live by the ocean, what do you
mean my.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Mom my mom never had lobster until I you know,
yeah had money now, but she never had They barely
had meat or chicken or eggs. They had like four
eggs a month.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Yeah. Yeah, it's it's so it's it's it's just it's
a really I don't know. I always recommend it for
people to go because you just can't. It's it's it's you.
I don't know if that level of uh, you know,
it's just so bifurcated. It's so weird my thinking on it.
It's so strange where it's like people are beautiful, trains beautiful,
it's lovely, and the music's incredible. I've never been to
more musical place in my life. New Orleans would be second,
(49:43):
which is saying something, yes, totally, but then you're like, man,
these people have like like there's no help. You know,
It's like it's kind of tragic. It's very tragic.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
I know, I wonder, like I feel like music and
that warmth and that generosity is also like a has
evolved out of that paint too, and that yeah, you
know hardship.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Right, which is another tough, tough thing to stomach. It's like, yeah,
all that pain did bring a certain level of beauty.
Speaker 3 (50:10):
Out of totally.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
Have you ever seen this documentary, Cuba and the Cameraman. No,
It's on Netflix. It's amazing. It was the first time
that I understood because I had always heard my grandma
and my mom talking about, you know, the different phases
of the Cuban Revolution and then what the situation was
looking like when my mom left to go to Mexico.
(50:32):
But that documentary, it's basically it's the same guy a
shot on one camera forty years of traveling to Cuba,
I think every ten years. So you see in the
beginning everything is amazing, and then maybe twenty years later
you see him going to the supermarkets and there's nothing
on the shelves. You see him, you know, going up
to people and he's like, can I get a beer?
Can I get some meat? They're like, we don't have anything.
(50:54):
It was just the first time that I was like, oh, wow,
I've seen I'm seeing now through visuals and images what
my grandma and my mom lived.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
And we're talking because you didn't understand that by the
time you left right.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
When you no, no, no, no, I mean I was seven,
so I definitely I would. You know, as a kid,
you have no stresses and you know your parents. My parents,
I feel like always kind of carried the burdens for me,
like they never you know what I mean. Yeah, So, yeah,
I was having a I was having a great time.
But now I have cousins that like in the past,
(51:29):
every year, I feel like I have new family members
that come because we're trying to get more and more
people kind of out. Yeah and yeah. The things that
they say is like it's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Yeah, yeah, why did your dad go to Cuba by
the way, because he's from Mexico.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
My dad is from Mexico.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
He only went to Cuba after my mom was pregnant
with me, and it was just like to kind of
visit family, got it.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
Yeah all right. It's just such an interesting background that
you have.
Speaker 4 (51:57):
Then I feel very lucky because I just love I
just love having access to like my Cuban side and
my Mexican side, like the people, like the food in Miami.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Like I feel so happy that there's actually one song
that didn't make the album because it's like not cxoxo,
but it was called Broken English that.
Speaker 3 (52:20):
I wrote about my mom.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Oh cool, And there was like this one line that
was like empty chairs at like Christmas dinner table or whatever,
because that's like how Cuban people always describe.
Speaker 3 (52:30):
Like just like immigrant families.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
And for so long, it was like my holidays were like,
you know, just me and my mom and my dad,
and then my sister was born and just the four
of us, and now we're having more and more family
come and it feels very healing for me because I
get to have cousins around and I get to I
don't know, just like have access to a lot of
(52:53):
things about me that were probably just like in me,
but I didn't know that, Oh my cousin has that
same I don't know, like have it as me or yeah,
or like she has the same tick as my mom
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
Like it like feels very healing for me.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
Oh, it's incredible, And I hope you get to go
back one day.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
Me too, But even Miami in that way feels very
healing for me because I get to spend time with
them and yeah, it's just like it feels almost like
it feels like the new home that we've all had
to make because we can't ever like really go back
to Cuba or you know, we wouldn't go back to
Cuba or go to Mexico. So it feels like Miami
is like, Okay, this is like where the new family
(53:34):
line is being kind of created.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
It's amazing. Well, Camilla, thank you so much for making
the album and for coming to LA and talking to
us about I know you'd rather be in Miami, but
you're here in mind.
Speaker 3 (53:47):
No, because then I wouldn't have gone to meet you.
And you're so lovely.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
You're really good with people. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (53:54):
Stop it, no, I really mean it.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
You have you have really great energy, very you have
very calming, kind energy.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Thanks to Camila Cabello
for chatting about the making of her new album Sex.
You can hear all of our favorite Camilokbeo tracks on
a playlist at broken record podcast dot com. Subscribe to
our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast,
where you can find all of our new episodes. You
(54:23):
can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record
is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help
from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliday.
Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you
love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to
Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers
(54:45):
bonus content and ad free listening for four ninety nine
a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions.
And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,
interview us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by
Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond,
Pushkin. Camila Cabello is in the midst of a creative revival.
Her brand new album, c Xoxo was recently dubbed hyper
pop by Rolling Stone in the wake of the frenetic
first single I Love It featuring Playboy Carti. The track
is an entirely new direction for Camilla, who first rose
(00:35):
to fame in twenty twelve as a member of the
girl group Fifth Harmony. She's been a successful solo artist
for nearly a decade now, scoring Billboard hits with Havana
and Senorita, among others. On her new album, though, Camilla
is racing into uncharted territory with her sound. She enlisted
producers Jasper Harris and Alguinho, who's known for his work
with Rosalia. Together they introduced a variety of new sounds
(00:59):
into Camila's orbit, including all the latest sounds in hip hop,
and the result is Camilla's edgiest album yet. On today's episode,
I talked to Kamila about the every particular set of
creative influences that inspired her new album, including a book
by Joan Didion. She also talks about having features from
Drake on a new album and why she wanted to
make music for Miami spring Breakers. This is broken record
(01:25):
liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's
my conversation with Camilla like Abeo, taped live at the
Amazon Music Studios in Culver City. At what point during
like a new album sort of cycle, as you're creating
it and getting into going into market it, at what
point do you stop and decide what like the tour
(01:46):
is going to look like and set lists and visuals
and stuff like, at what point in the creative process
does that start to well?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I think this was an album that was really like
early on in tandem with writing it, I was kind
of like drying up like pinterrest boards and stuff, and
that kind of influenced the music. Like I remember, you know,
kind of putting together this Pinterest board of kind of
like what cx SO look like to me, And a
lot of it was what you're kind of going to
(02:13):
see on the festival stage, like you know, like the
BMX culture in Miami and like the spring Breakers and
the kind of girls with the sche mass and it
being kind of like this kind of almost like girl
gang vibe and like the XOXO girls. Like I kind
of was thinking of that while we were in the studio,
(02:33):
So it's been pretty easy in that sense. It hasn't
been very like oh shit, what are we gonna do?
Because I feel like this album kind of started as
I was like, Okay, I feel like I've always been
such a song driven artist, Like everything to me was
always like how do I just make the best song,
the best you know, like you know, the best chorus melody,
(02:55):
and how do I make this lyric really good? I
thought of things as very just kind of like self
contained in the songs, and then I think, as I've
gotten older, the next level is having this kind of
world or aesthetic, which I feel like Lana does so
well or you know, like I feel like that's like
the next evolution for me is having like great songs
obviously because that's so important to me, and and that's
(03:18):
like obviously, like I feel like the like my starting
point is.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Just like if that's the bedrock for.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
D yeah, that's the bedrock for for everything.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
But like, yeah, the songs for you clearly seem like
the bedrock. But this album good songs, but there's definitely.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Have you heard it yet?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I have? I have, I have.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
It's really good, really good and everything.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Well it's I'll say the first time I heard it
was with the new single or the first single, I
love it. Yeah, and it shocked me, you know what,
like that. It was funny, I think, and even going
through I love looking at YouTube comments because they're both
like the cesspool of society but also a bit of I.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Love looking at other people's YouTube comments. Mine make me
want to jump into this not even graphic just like a.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Really fast card, but no, it is.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
It is such a good like just like human experiment project,
like what do people But okay.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
It is mad. I mean it's mad, it's like a
bunch of but but there's also it's also like interesting
to sort of just see how people are processing certain things.
And it was funny over time when that album first
or when the song first came out and the video
first came out to see the shock that people had.
I think, even just like you going blonde like shocked people.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah, you know, totally, but.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
It's funny like returning to it, like over the last
week or so, you started to see people are kind
of catching up with what you're doing. Yeah, And so
I had a similar experience with the entire album, which
was the first time listening, it's what it's been like, Wow,
it was really I love hearing that expecting it. But
then by the third, fourth, fifth listening, I.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Love hearing that because I feel like that's a really
honest take, because I feel like, for me, it's like
I've been living with these songs for a year now,
and I've been living with.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
The world and the kind of like.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Aesthetic evolution for a while now, and so I've obviously
for me, I'm like I kind of my brain was
probably like just expects people to just be as excited
and and and lean into it as much as I
am in the moment, But it.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Really is important for me to hear you say that that.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's so true like with my favorite artists too, like
when it's something that you know you haven't heard from
them before, it takes you a second to warm up
to understand, to recontextualize them. And I remember even like, for example,
Anti like work by Rihanna.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
At first, I was like.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
What, like, I'm so confused, Like I don't know if
I like this, And then I think it was like
a couple months later, I was like, this is the
best song of all time, but it.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
And the one of the best albums and one of
them that whole decade of her career of R and
B period, And I.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Think it also I'm not by any means like because
I don't think comparisons like.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
That exist, but I think it.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I always like, I'm thinking about that now and I'm like,
oh yeah, that also took us, like took a second.
And I think it's so true when you, like, when
you pivot and you're trying to do like something new,
it just like takes people a second and you shouldn't
take it personally.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Absolutely, But also even before hearing the album or the singles,
I was super shocked and excited that you were working
with Elgwen Show. Yeah, because I mean I've been listening
to Elgwen Show for like a decade now. Really incredible
artist like his like his artists, Yeah, yeah, yeah, his
head that he's he's phenomenally phenomenal. And it was like shot.
(06:35):
I was like wait a second, like she's like because
she's got interesting tastes, like how did how did it happen?
Because he's not the obvious.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Choice as as like somebody in the pops.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah you're a pops. I mean you're an artist, but
you're also your pop star, which I feel like, do
you kind of probably have to work to appease both,
but I don't.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I don't really work to like appease both.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And I've never really been somebody who, like, I don't
really try to cater to what I think people want
from me or expect from me. I really just like
every time, I just kind of follow my instincts. And
you know, I remember my first album, like I worked
with like Frank Duke's and you know, he had never
worked with like a pop artist before, somebody coming from
like a girl group who was like a pop girl group,
(07:18):
you know.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And I think with Green Show, I think I gravitate
to people that take risks and you know, make kind
of like fresh choices, and I feel like he's somebody
that has such a like consistent fresh perspective, especially on
like because I don't even know, I wouldn't even say, like,
I wouldn't say Rose is like a pop stars, do
(07:40):
you know what I mean? Like she kind of exists
in her on lane, and I really that's kind of
what I'm working towards, is like I don't want to
be perceived as like a pop girl. I just kind
of want to be me like outside of that. But anyway,
but back to gen show, Yeah, I mean, I just
I love like weirdos in the music space, and I
love like weirdo producers.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I love weirdo.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Artists, and I really try to like always like align
myself with the weirdos because I think they pull. Because
I feel like the weirdos are are the ones that
are not afraid to take risks.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
They're not trying to like.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Have you know, oh, what's been the thing that's working,
and how can we make something that works like the
thing that we know that's gonna work? Like they I
feel like they're the people that are gonna make unpredictable choices.
They're the people that are gonna, you know, drive the
label people crazy because they're like, we know that this
is weird. We know that this, you know, is like
(08:37):
a leap from the stuff she's done before. And I
like those people because they make me also bold enough
to follow those instincts in myself.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
And that's when I feel happiest. I feel happiest.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
When like I make a song like you know, I
love it or he knows where I feel like I've
done something different and something that feels like I followed
my curiosity than just like having a big song that
doesn't like excite me.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, Like when when it's something that feels creatively fulfilling
and it hits commercially totally.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
I mean, if it hits commercial, no complaints here.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
But I think if I had to pick one, I
feel like I always feel better when it's when it
feels like when I just feel proud of it.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah, yeah, so yeah, But I mean it felt in
so many ways like the pop world was kind of
just catching up to you anyways. You grew up your Cuban,
your Mexican, you grew up in Miami, And it's been
incredible to see over the last handful of years the
way that like popular culture and pop music has has
sort of enmeshed with like Latin culture and Latin music,
(09:41):
particularly from the Caribbean. You know, es is so much
of the sound of your early records, your earlier records,
So it's like not only is it like a detour
from what you've been doing, but it's like kind of
like you're deviating also from where popular music is going,
and popul music was like turning towards you. So it's
(10:01):
like it's a really bold moves. It's it's really I
don't know. It was really impressive to me listening to
it that that's, yeah, where you're deciding to go. Now,
this is where you're deciding to go.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Well, I think I when I'm in the studio, I
really am just like I'm writing for myself and I'm
making music for myself. And if I'm just like, oh,
this feels like you know, Havana Part three, then I
feel like I get kind of bored, you know. And
I also think like I feel like this was almost
a new take on you know for me, like Havannah
and drawing on those sounds from my culture was like
(10:35):
me exploring those parts of myself at that time. And
I also was like, Okay, what perspective do I have
that nobody or other people don't, you know, And that
felt fresh at the time, Like at that time, Havana
was like whoa, Like this is like super weird because
it has this kind of like Cuban you know, like
done son piano, but it has like these eight O
(10:55):
waights Like that was like fresh at that time. Now
it's like like you said like it.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
We hear that.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
A lot, so it's kind of like, okay, like what's
I'm just always like, okay, what haven't I heard that
I would want to here? And I almost feel like
this album feels like the other stuff was exploring kind
of Latin culture, Cuban culture, you know, sometimes like the
Mexican like Madiachi music on my last album, Familia, and
(11:23):
this one is like more Miami, which I feel like
is like, you know, it's like this melting pot of
like you're driving around in Miami and you hear like afrobeat,
you hear rigaton, you hear hip hop.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
You hear like a lot of these different things.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
You still live in Miami, right, Yeah, how do you
experience Miami differently now from when you were a kid?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
I think I like it more now because I think
when you grow up in a place, you always I
feel like, just don't appreciate it. Yeah, right, just like
this is boring, and I think living in other places
and spending a lot of time in LA and spending
not to hate on LA, but you know what I mean,
like but a little bit, but that's up. You know what, though,
(12:13):
it's different when it's your hometown because I get it
very totally different experience when I'm.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Here in Miami. In LA are very similar in the
sense of like, people come to LA and I was like,
that's wow, it's so flashy, it's so and then I
go to i.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Fla to Miami and I'm guilty, guilty, this is how
people feel.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Come to LA because all of a sudden, I'm like, what,
like me too, I mean I came everywhere, come.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
To LA and I'm like, what, like, I don't feel
like the real people like I don't feel.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
And and you probably the same one. People come to Miami.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
They're like, oh, you're at like Nikki Beach and I'm like, no,
I've been there one time.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
That's not the experience I get in Miami. I think.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
I think, like, for example, like making this album in Miami,
like when I'm in writing mode, I'm like, I was
talking about this the other day. It's almost like you're
just like looking at everything with like just extra attention,
you know what I mean, and it makes you There's
this quote that says something like, look at your city
with the eyes of a tourist, like with the eyes
(13:07):
of somebody that's like never there before. And I remember
just I'm trying to say like more and like less
in general and interviews because I feel like I say
like a lot.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Good luck.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yeah, I know, I say it's so much.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I'm trying interview, so I'm happy you're doing.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Oh no cursing is that's that'll be the last thing
to go.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
But the likes, Damn, it's just like I just insert
it instead of a pause, but I'll just pause.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
But anyway, Yeah, I feel like, fuck it whatever.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I feel like I would just go into the studio
and just kind of just and even be driving back
at night and be like, Wow, these lights. You don't
get this like specific shade of yellow and orange anywhere else.
Or you don't get this kind of music. You don't get,
you know, this kind of what they call Miami English.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
You know, the.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Slang and the whatever anywhere else you don't get the
you know, the the this look of the skyline you
don't get you know. I was just really looking at
it with extra attention, and I think looking at anything
with extra attention, everything becomes more beautiful. Yeah, And I
think that's kind of how I feel about Miami. I
(14:17):
suddenly was looking at it for writing purposes, for research purposes,
and you know, writing down everything that felt to me
like you know, like representative of her.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
And is that part of your writing process as you're
living your life and going around doing things, something strikes
you in the moment. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, But I notice, for example, like right now, I'm
in rehearsal mode, and so when I'm not in rehearsal,
like I'll be like looking at the videos, or I'll
be practicing, or I'll be whatever. And then writing time,
when I'm like making an album is the time where
I have the luxury of just being like I wake
up in the morning and I you know, bring my
(15:00):
iPad to like a coffee shop and I'll just like
write down anything. If I had any kind of adventures
that week or whatever, I'll just kind of write it
down like a diary entry, or I'll just kind of
be able to have the time to really take stock
of everything.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
And write it down.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
But for example, like right now, it's like this whole
phase of my life where I'm rehearsing, there could be
tons of things I could be writing about if I
was making an album.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, I'm going to ask a lot of just like
weird because I'm obsessed with like the demands of being
like a pop star, you know, and and I know
you're feeling like and that's why. But it's like, because
it's like it is a very unique lifestyle and unique
from me. Even there's only a certain percentage of people
(15:49):
in the world who are in the arts, and even
smaller percentage of people who are in the arts and
could be considered pop stars. So it's like, is there
there Your life sort of is lived in phases necessarily,
is there a phase of life that you yes, like
more dislike the most? Like what were my writing phase?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
The writing phase is my favorite for me. But when I,
for example, if we were in the studio for more
than two weeks, I would need to take a break
and then just live some life because I run out
of things to say, you know, because I usually just
have thoughts and ideas, and then I'm like, well, I
don't have anything else to say because I've been in
the studio with you motherfuckers for the last two weeks.
(16:29):
So there's you know, I got to go and go
on a date. I gotta go get on a fight
with someone, and I get something because otherwise, you know,
I think the buck stops here, So it usually is
like for me, that's usually my favorite phase is like
the year of like writing, and then you.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Go take a few days off writing, take a few
days off, come back writing.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I'm back. Like.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I love that because I also that's a time where
I feel like I'm also when I'm writing, I'm devouring
other forms of art as input. So I'm like reading
a lot, listening to a lot of music, watching a
lot of movies, even like going to see like physical
art in museums because I feel like I benefit from
(17:12):
a lot of input and then I get like newer
and newer forms of output.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
After a quick break, we'll be back with more from
Kamila Cabello. We're back with Kamila Cabello. What were you
taking in like in the beginning stages of this album
or throughout?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Oh, I wrote it down on my iPad? Can I
pull it out?
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah? Incredible.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Brought my iPad because I had it felt like, you know,
if there's any podcasts that I can nerd out and
bring my my trustee Patty, please, this is the iPad
I wrote down like some of the books and like
some of the references and stuff so these are the
books that I read. Okay, so Joan Diddy and the
White Album.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Oh that's a great book.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Great, great book, right, Candy House, Jennifer Egan, Bird by
Bird by m LaMotte.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Did you ever read that? It's about writing?
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Really? Yeah, I'm gonna have to check that out. I
don't know it.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Bird by Bird, My Year of Rest and Relaxation. Uh,
Metamorphosis by Friends Friends.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Kafka, Wow, you're reading some co I was.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Reading some classics, but I was mostly reading. I was
reading a lot of Sally Rooney. I was reading a
lot of books by girls going through things in their
twenties because I was like, I just love the like
inner dialogue, and I wanted to have exactly exactly what
else did I write down here? This poetry podcast poetryon Bound.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
But I love that podcast. It really has taught me
so much.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Oh, these are just like things like kind of guidelines
of c xoxo.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
But what I don't know I want to hear that's.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Well, this is just yeah, like this is just some stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Like I remember talking to my therapist a lot about this.
This album kind of being about questions without answers, and
you know that quote that's like uh Rainer Maria Rilka,
that's like Livia Questions, where it's like letters to a
young poet where he's like, but I don't.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Know what to do, like do I do this with
my life? Do I do this with my life?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
And he's like, don't wait until you know the answer,
live your questions. And I feel like a lot of
my songs before were very like bam bam, it's like
we broke up and yay, and you know, my own
lind it's like he's a bad boy and ooh and
you know, it's very kind of these neat neat lines. Yeah, totally,
(19:36):
Whereas I feel like a lot of these songs are
almost like zooming in on one moment, which is my
favorite thing about poetry. For example, where it's like I
don't know, like twenty some things is like.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
It's like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, it's a lot of ankst. It's a lot of
not knowing.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
A lot of not knowing totally not being sure of
yourself even I love It. It is just like a zoom
in on just a very tiny feeling.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Do you remember the genesis of I Love It?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah? I do.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
We were thinking about so we had maybe like fifty
percent of the album kind of done, and then one
day I was like, okay, well what would be our
first or track one because we were kind of starting
to mock up a track list and I was listening
to a lot of Cardi and I played this one
song by Cardi called mister Rage.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
You know that song.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I don't know that one so good, but I was
just like, whoa, the energy of that I was so
obsessed with. I think I've always gravitated towards since and
this album.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
I was like, let's just let's just go there.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Leaned, I leaned in ye and so yeah, so Jasper
started playing those chords and then I went in the
booth and I started singing the verse, the.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Supersonic you of Ita Nana. It probably was.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
It probably wasn't all the words, but I do think
supersonic was the was a word that was in the
because I usually that's how I write. It's like kind
of like freestyle mumble and then kind of fill in
the words after cool. Yeah. And so then I saw
the guys and they were like, oh my god, and
I was like, yeah, I love it. And the auto
tune kind of did something and then I like kind
(21:19):
of kept singing it and they were like yeah, like
keep saying it whatever, and then that's how the chorus happened.
And then gin Cho put in that Lemonade sample right
because I think and I think he'll probably explain to
like where he was thinking about it, But we were
at that time, we were already like, this is a
Miami album, and we were thinking of like people from
Miami or Miami Transplants or spring Breakers and Gucci Mane
(21:43):
kind of yeah, like straddles both of those things, spring
Breakers and Miami Transplant and yep, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Oh my god, that's so literally the I was an aspect.
I love it, I love it, I love it. It was
just because they were kept telling you keep going on.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, But I think but I think before I probably
before this album, I wouldn't have kept going with a
choice like that. I would have been like, no, you know,
this needs more words, right, And I think that you know,
in this album, one like listening to people like Cardi
where it is you know, it feels instinctive and visceral,
and then also learning that you know, repetition is also intentional.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Yeah, you know it sounds like the feeling.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
There's a power in a print, you know. It's that
Prince on Joy and repetition. There's like a joy or
power and and sometimes there's like a like all right,
you know, because that's the thing with repetition. I love it.
I love it. It's like cool. And then it's like
halfway through it's like kind of I'm kind of done
with this.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
But then you change the note or something.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Something, or you just keep going and by the end
of you like, wait, I'm in Like.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
This is incredibly Yes, it's so true.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
There's a power, there's a there's a there's a there
really is a power in.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
It because it hits your body differently. Yeah, every time you.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Say it, every time, every single time.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
What are the ways in which because you worked with
Jasper Harris as well, Yes and el Gwen show, Yes,
what are the ways in which they kind of pushed
you or took you out of your comfort zone? Oh?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
So much? That was they took me on my comfort zone.
The whole time. I was like, can y'all just leave
me in here for a second?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
But no, I love that about them, And that's actually
that's why I wanted to work with them. And I
think That's why I probably really expanded my references. And
if I would show up and be like, oh, like
I love this song, then they would show me, you know,
eight more kind of underground songs that I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
And I feel like.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
That really yeah, just kind of like it expanded, you know,
my kind of input folder.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
And are there any of the names that like they
shared with you that are on there totally?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
I mean I don't think I've really listened to they
are like, we're massive, massive Cardi fans, Like they talked
about Cardi so so much, and I think that made me, like,
then I started listening to him more. And like, you know,
uh Im Triplin, Pabula showed me Im Triplin. I mean,
so many people, even like ethel Kine Jasper showed me.
(24:09):
They showed me a lot of, like I feel like,
amazing artists and amazing songs. For example, I remember this
one song Dreamgirls, like we were in the Bahamas.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
We went to Bahamas.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
And and jazz yes wow.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And literally we were just we just barely saw the sunlight,
like we were just in the studio the whole time.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
I was so tired by the time we left. It
was so much but we got a.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Lot of the album done there, but anyway that this
was after like Chanel number five and a lot of
the I feel like thesis, which Chanel number five I
consider kind of like the thesis statement, like the centerpiece
of the table that is cxoxo. And for example, like
we were we were working on dream Girls in the Bahamas,
(25:00):
and you know, I would do like I would write
the verse or whatever, and they'd be like, yeah, like
it's it's good, but I feel like it's like I
don't know, it's like Chanelle number five, like you did that,
you know, like I feel like there's like this bar now.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
And I did like maybe three more.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Versions of verses, and I was like at some point
I was like they were just hating, like what do
they want from it? But they were right, they were right,
and I you know, I I pushed myself and I
got the verse that I got like out of dream
Girls because I feel like they are consistently challenging me
(25:39):
and pushing me to be like it's good, but it's
not excellent. Right, Everybody needs people like that, you know,
Like that's like that kind of we constantly had that
creative tension where we were always you know, getting into
little things, but in a good way because I think
it really it constantly pushed me to be better. And
(26:04):
I you know, I tell them this all the time,
Like I was, like, you guys have made me a
better writer and a better art artists and you know.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Had a typical way of working in the studio free before.
Like would you have those kinds of dust ups with
with collaborators, producers, writers in the past.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
I did with like I did with Frank for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Like I think that that push and pull is it's
important because it's so easy for things to just be Yeah,
and it can happen even with yourself. I can it
can happen with myself where I can be like I
like that melody. That melody is cool, and this lyric
is cool, and that's a cool and that's.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
A cool song. I like it.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And it's easy to just put out things that are
just cool. And I've done it, you know what I mean.
But it's not a business for them. There really are
about craftsmanship and about respecting the craft and the integrity
of a project and the integrity of things.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
And they're real artists, they really are, both of them.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
And yeah, they really I'm I think the thing that
I'm the most thankful for for this project is how
much I feel like it leveled. It made me step
my game up as a writer.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Confident.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Oh my god, yes, yeah totally. I just feel like
I learned so much. I feel like it was a
boot camp for me. And I think, you know, when
I listened to even now, because I'm in rehearsals and
I'm listening to older songs and whatever, I'm like, I
can see, for example, where oh this line could have
been tweaked or this could could have been better on
(27:33):
old songs based on what I know now, because I
think before, I think I was just following instincts and
doing the best with whatever instincts I had at that moment.
But now I feel like I've have guide guidelines for
what I think is cool.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Can I tell you some of that please?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
And I was just thinking, I was just thinking out loud.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I was like, I feel like I became a big
fan of just like Show Don't Tell.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Show Don't Tell. How do you think that comes up
in the album.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Like instead of being like, instead of being like he's
so obsessed with me, it's like fold for me, Like
Origami Oh does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, that's a way better line.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Is way better line.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
But I hope that didn't sound doesn't sound obnoxious because
I have what I'm saying is I before I probably
would have said things like something said and more tried
to be like. I follow this Instagram account called the
Paris Review, and I think Greta Gerwig said something like
the only way to make something universal is like to
make it as specific as possible.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yes, yes, and it's right, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
And it's like Taylor has been saying that for such
a long time and rappers have been doing that for
such a long time, where it's like, you know, and
ginshow is like a huge hip hop head, so he
would always tell me, you know, I would come in
with my perspective of like probably more pop songwriting, which
is like the beginning of the story, middle of the story,
end of the story, and he'd be like, you know,
(28:59):
in rap songs, it's like you're in this scene and
now you're in the car, and now you're in the bar,
and now you're here and now you know, there's a
glass and now there's shoes and the shoes are beige,
and now there's like it's like all sensory and colors
and painting all of these different pictures where it's like
a movie that you can see in your head and
like these flash cuts. And I learned so much from that,
(29:21):
and I learned so much from rappers and.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Hip hop and the way that I saw.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Jay Z said something that Sizza reposted yesterday, which is like,
you know when people are like, I don't know, like
Paul McCartney is one of the greatest writers of all time.
I think Biggie Smalls is too, you know where it's
like the.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
I think Paul would probably agree with that.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, totally, totally. I don't even think he said Paul mcartny.
I think he said somebody else, but I can't remember.
But it's like, yeah, just like the it's like it's
like poetry, and because poetry is so sensory and visual.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
And I don't think I was conscious of that before.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I think, like, coincidentally, my favorite songs that I've ever
done before, like first Man from a from a writing perspective,
I'm like, I'm so proud of that song thank You, or.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Used to This that I did with Phineas.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
There's like they're very specific and like the callouses on
your fingers. Like every time, I was like, this is
one of my favorite songs.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I did that.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
That's a good point. Yeah, that's a great line too.
There's calases on your finger and I forget how long ago,
and now I feel them on my face and yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
And I admire them from a distance. Now they're on
my cheeks. And I think Phineas and Billy do that
a lot too. But I think this album, I was
really like, this is what I like this, this is
my ship.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Sally Rooney does it, Joan Didion does it, and I
and and and I.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
I just yeah, I was like, this is the show.
Don't tell album. I don't want to do these universal statements.
I wanted to be as sensory as possible, which is
why I think Chanel number five is my favorite song
that I've that I've written, because I feel like it
is written from that kind of like rap perspective where
it's just like, oh, Makassi shabari whoop.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Yeah, you know, it's like all these different pictures.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
No. So that's so that's why that's like the mission
statement of the album for you, Shanela.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, because I feel like it's like it has I
feel like all of my tastes and all the things
I like coming together, which is like this like kind
of whimsical, alternative, weird thing and then like hip hop.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Yeah, in one song.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Are there were there other kind of guide guidelines you
kind of wanted?
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, I feel like show Don't Tell was one, right,
I think the sensory thing was big.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
There really is a visceralness like to that to the album,
and and it's you know what's funny has I hadn't
really thought about it, but you know, we always talk
about like the album and then the visuals, and then
we think about them as these I think because there
are visuals and going back to MTV or whatever, there's
there's always visuals. You can rely on the video to
(31:56):
provide the like this is what what this is, how
I'm seeing. This is how you should see the song,
you know. But what is cool about this album is
like you're able to see the song before you see
a visuals. You know.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Honestly, I think that I was listening to so much rap,
and I think that that probably influenced because I love
melodies and I love like pop melodies, like I love
like a I love a melody but I do feel
like I love when a rap song comes out and
I like go on genius and have to be like,
(32:31):
what is this?
Speaker 3 (32:32):
What is this?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
They just there's like so many things, like tangible things.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Were you were you like a big hip hop fan
growing up or not as much I was.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
But I think I leaned into it more for this
album because also gin Show and Jasper.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Were showing me so many more things too.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
We I think when you're making an album with people,
you kind of obviously it's like it's you, but you're
also in the room with these people like ten hours
a day, and you're gonna be talking about your favorite
songs and wherever there's overlapt you know, Like I feel
like they're such huge like hip hop and rap lovers.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Like I think we kind of like that's what we.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Your love, your love of melody, their sort of sense
of like really like deep love of knowledge of hip hop,
kind of blending those.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Two exactly totally.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
It's amazing, totally talking about your love of hip hop
going on genius. Drake is on two songs on the album. Yes,
but how we feel about this Drake, what I mean
Drake is kind of it's going through hard time right now.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
I'm you know, I obviously have huge respect for both
of them, but I also something that's really important to
me and my friendships and as a value is is
loyalty and also and speaking the truth about people that
you know. And I really will talk all day about
(34:00):
how generous he was to work with, like throughout this
whole process, how much he really is like a true
music lover who was like, oh, like, you know, I
want to like hear your album, and I want to
see the video, and I want to contribute something and
I'm so excited about what you're doing and I and
(34:22):
genuinely like, you know, does not need anything from me,
but was is I feel like always you know, puts
other people on. So I DMed him. I was like, hey,
I would love to play my album. He was like,
I'd love to hear it, and.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
So then we met up and I played in my
album and it was kind of like a little bit
more in the rough stages, but I played him number five,
I played I Love It, I played him twenty somethings,
and he played me some of for all the Dogs Wow,
And I was like, I remember having this moment where
I was like, Wow, this is crazy because I listened
(34:57):
to Drake before I was even.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Famous or whatever. Famous is a lame word, but you
know what.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
I mean, Yeah, you got famous young. I mean yeah,
before you were famous. Yeah that's that's your truth.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
So anyway, so yeah, then I think it was like
a couple of weeks later he sent me this kind
of demo, this hot up town, and he.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Was like, what do you think about this? I like,
I kind of think this could be sick. And I
was like, oh my god, I love it.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
And I went into the studio with Pablo in Miami
and I was like, I am not wasting any time.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
And I wrote my parts like whatever.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
And then we kind of cut back and forth to
make it sound like a duet and sent it to
him and he was like hard and all caps, and
I was like.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Did it? Did it? Had? That must have been kind
of big for guin show too, like I'd imagine that's it.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
And and Jazpers like the biggest drap Like we're always like, well,
he's the best.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Like he's got did you can Jasper? Because I'm not
super familiar with.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Them, but I know Jasper is they're both fucking geniuses.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Like they're just insane, and Jasper is it's really rare
to find producers like both of them, and I'm lucky
I got two where it's their taste. It's not even
that they're just musically talented and that they you'll be
talking about an idea and they will pick the right
pick the best chords, which Jasper does. But it's also
(36:39):
he sees like a larger vision and he sees, you know, oh,
this flow would be so sick, and like this person
would be so sick on that song and.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
This texture and whatever.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Like his taste level is just amazing, and he's always
putting me onto new music too. He's always talking about McGee.
I don't know what McGhee, he's always that's that's his latest.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
So Gwen Show was first, and then Jasper.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah, Green Show was first, and yeah, he was act
the first producer that I reached out to for this project.
And yeah, and so we did like a few songs
and then we I think I worked with maybe a
couple more people, and then I was like, no, Green
Show is it?
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Green Show?
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Is it? Well? It's interesting too because I feel like
Familia was the first time, I mean, you worked with
Frank Duke's a lot. But I feel like Ricky Reid
on Familia was like the first time seemed like you
like really bunkered down with someone and like was like,
we're going to do this like one to one, you know.
I mean there's more people involved in that record, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
One hundred.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
I think with Frank it was like me and him.
But I was so it was my first album, so
I was like, oh my god, like I had, you know,
the most imposter syndrome, and I was like, well, we
must have the best people in town to help, you know.
And I think the second album it was like that
(38:04):
but a little bit less. And then I think the
third album familiar. I was like, you know, I want
to do this with a small group of people, like
we can do it and it feels better. And and
I think for me, like writing is so you know,
I'm just like I'm sensitive and I just can't open
up if it's like somebody I don't know, like I
(38:24):
saw it.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
I had to kick someone out.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
You did you kicked something? We won't to say who.
You kicked someone out.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
I don't know his name, but you know, like.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
And so even like if I can't be like vulnerable
and intimate in my writing. If it's like my first
day meeting you. That's why I think. I think that
is also something I've learned, like from now on, it's
always going to have to be.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
The same.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Small, tiny family for an album, because otherwise I just
can't open up. And there were even some songs here
that I would kick, you know, I would kick Pablo
and jazz Bro Yeah, you know, like I like twenty
somethings in June Gloom. I was like, I can't write
this chorus with you guys in here like that.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Just get out.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
After one last break, we'll be back with more from
Camilla Cabeo. We're back with the rest of my conversation
with Camila Cabello. I was talking to him, boy, I
was like, you know, because he did that run of
like he did four or five NODS records, like where
he was the sole producer, and it was interesting, like not
in the documentary. Did you see that in Hip Hop Revolution? Yeah? Well,
(39:34):
and then going back to like Ellmatic, that first NODS
record is the first time that like someone was like,
I'm gonna work with all these different producers and they
were like.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
The top producers at the top, ye.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Q Tip Premiere, who else is on that large professor whatever, whatever, whatever,
But it's it's it's funny, and I feel like that
opened up a thing where people work with a bunch
of different producers, like these big camps, and that sort
of become the thing.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
But it gives me anxiety to be honest with you,
because I actually did that. I remember from my first album,
I you know, it was Frank and then I went
into like Max Martin's thing.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
And I read I was a Max Martin.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
I mean I was, to be honest, I was so young.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
I was like twenty, which I don't know, maybe that
doesn't seem that young, but for my age at that time,
I was like kind of seventeen inside yeah, you know,
because I started at fifteen.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
So I was just like, my god, and it was
Max Martin, Like I was like, what the fuck? What
am I doing?
Speaker 2 (40:30):
This is so much and I at that time, Max Martin,
I'm working with Pharrell. I was like, what is going on?
And I just wanted to prove myself to these people.
I literally wasn't even thinking to be honest with you,
which is not the way to be. But I wasn't
even thinking about what's gonna make the best song?
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Walking out of here? I was just trying to prove
that I was good to Parrell.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Well, how do you do that as you're twenty and
you're in a studio with Pharrell?
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Literally wanted him to think I was good. I didn't
even care like this song, I didn't care. I was
just like, I just want Pharrell to walk out of
here thinking I'm a good writer.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Period?
Speaker 1 (41:04):
What can I bring to this? Really? As a toy
like that? You know, it's like you kind of I
could imagine that feeling.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
It's just I think when it's like too many superstar,
so many superstar producers, it kind of just makes me anxious.
Like even Ginsho in the beginning, I was so nervous.
I felt like I needed needed to prove myself to him,
and I would tell him is the tea?
Speaker 3 (41:22):
And Ricky too, and.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Frank God, I'm so so vulnerable with all of them.
But that's what you can do when you, you know,
hunker down.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
With people, you can be like.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
I remember, like I would literally be like, are you
comparing me to blink right now?
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Because I'm crazy and I have way I need more
of a filter. And he would be like, what are
you kidding?
Speaker 2 (41:45):
No, what, But then you see them as a human,
which is where I need to be in order to write.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
I cannot see you as a superstar producer.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Rachel too is just like a cool factor too that
I could have met, Like, I mean I never I
never met him, but just like listening to his music,
You're like, that's a guy who knows a lot about
a lot.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Well he yeah, I mean he he schooled the fuck
out of me, which is amazing. But that I want
to be around people who school me constantly because that's
the only way that I can get better. Yeah, And
I feel like that's like what I feel like mad
made this album so creatively fulfilling and rewarding is that
I wasn't fucking school Like I was like, you know,
(42:24):
I was listening to classic albums that I'd never heard
before because.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
I grew up music. It was all Latin music.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
It was Latin music plus Michael Jackson, Universal period and
that that was.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Pretty much it.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
So I kind of went back and I was like, oh,
what is this radiohead that people keep talking about?
Speaker 3 (42:47):
You know what it like?
Speaker 2 (42:49):
So I think, yeah, I just like did a lot
of studying on this album.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
That's cool. So do you think all this is going
to inform the next thing, the next thing moving forward
your career your I.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Think so, Yeah, for sure, I think I you know,
I think like gin Cho and like I think that
I always kind of need to work with people like
gin Cho who really know their shit and.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
Just hold me to like a higher standard.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Yeah, And I think that's like, Yeah, something I really
learned is just really putting a lot of love and
care into something, which I feel like I really did.
I put a lot of love and care into it,
and I just love it.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
It's a very cool. It's a great album. I'm still
I still like I love it a lot of it
because it is straight up and it's like the funny
thing too, is you kicked it off with like the
the strength, the weirdest song on the album, like you
didn't hold it. You didn't hold you didn't hold back,
like you were just like we're announced album, we're going
and it is so it's like abrasive. It's abrasive copy.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Yeah, and I actually hate when I Do you think
I was right when I.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Called it hyper pop?
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yeah? I don't know, Okay, I don't know what that means.
People say it.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
I don't because I like said it and then it
was like this hyper pop song and I was like, guys,
it's not though, like it's it's so many things at
the same time.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Yeah, it's it's a lot of things. I mean, it's
a lot of it's a very it's a visceral record.
I mean the stuff on me that sounds like like
that no wave stuff like that, like that late seventies,
early eighties New York like underground club stuff. It's just
so it's such a I don't know, just ooze is
like a cool I think that I love it. Yeah,
it is it.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
I also think like that's it.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
You know.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
I was telling my choreographer, uh, my choreographers, Calvit and
Sarah Yesterday, who I've worked with for a long time,
because we have like I love it and we have
like Dave County dreaming.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
Did you hear it?
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, I think it's you the album enough because I
got sent to stream and the link was but I
can't wait to hear it.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
But like on both of those songs, I feel like
I I yeah, I feel like mainly most of those
songs man Hot of Town and I don't know me,
but mostly.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
I not z x cut is really cool too. I
mean he sounds like really he sounds amazing.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
Though, no, he went crazy on his verse.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (45:18):
He's really close with Jasper, and so I think we
were always just kind of like in the same family
circles and uh he Jasper like played him my album
and he loved it. And I think we've always been
like kind of like loving and supportive of each other
for the past, like since we've met, like six years ago,
and I just always loved him. I just think he's
(45:39):
like such an incredible artist. And we were thinking of
like who to have on that song, and Jasper was like, oh,
like what about nas And he had never done a
feature before at that time, so I was like, I
don't know if he's going to do it, but we asked,
and we were so excited about the idea of like
us both singing about the same guy or fighting over
the same guy, because it's just like I just never
(46:02):
seen that before.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
It's just such a such a funny concept and perfect
challenges having just come out like the same person. It's
like that kind of drama of that. And he's like, yeah,
I wasn't sure what to expect from it, you know,
like what he would sound like on it, And it
is really cool, like I don't know, it sounds like
he's almost in character or something like he's.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Playing with new stuff too, because he said the other.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Day he was playing with the kind of like like
kind of like Jamaican like New York, like the sounds
like the.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
Whatever.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Like yeah, he's kind of you know, exploring different things
in his different pockets too.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
But I was gonna say about Dade County Dreaming and
I love it. I feel like those were feelings that
I always put on other people's music to tap into,
like this feeling of like bravado or cockiness or like
you know, like which I feel like rap gives you.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Like this feeling of just like can't fuck with me?
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Yeah you know what I mean. Those songs have that.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
And yeah, I'm just like excited that I get to
kind of I feel like I am able to embody
that now in my own music.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
I love it. I love it. Have you had a
chance to go to Cuba?
Speaker 3 (47:16):
I was born there, but like back when I was fourteen.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
When what was the how was how was that I
haven't been.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Able to go again just because like passport issues and
stuff like that. But it was it was like right
before I auditioned for X Factor and my grandparents.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
No, my grandma was still living there at the time.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Now she lives in Miami and I had tons of
family there. I still have family there, but a lot
of people have come to Miami now, thank god. Honestly,
what I mostly remember is like I was like obsessed
with Justin Bieber.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
At the time. They had no Internet.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yeah yeah, and like they only had like the like
an email app and like Solitaire, but they had no
Internet at all.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
So when the whole.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
World was obsessed with like Justin Bieber, They're like, we
don't know who that is. And I was like, no, guys,
Justin Bieber, No for sure, No, I don't know. I
haven't been back, but.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Yeah, the situation is rough.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
It's yeah, it's bad. I was there a few years back.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
And what was your experience?
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Very very strange, strange, Like it was a weird experience
because the people are so incredible.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
The people are.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Just precious, some of the greatest people on the planet
that I've come across.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
Warm, so warm, so generous, so loving. My mommy's Cuban.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yeah that's who is right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a warmth, man,
there's just a warmth. But you know, then obviously, but
then you're like also balancing that with that and obviously
the country itself is beautiful.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
The terrainanape, the landscapes insane.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
But then then you but then you're also a knowledge
and you're like, you know, remember I met a guy there,
amazing guy, so cool, and he was like showing us
around and we're like, come, like, come have dinner, Like,
let's just get your dinner. And he was like, this
is the first time I've had like lobster in twenty years.
Like how you live by the ocean, what do you
mean my.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Mom my mom never had lobster until I you know,
yeah had money now, but she never had They barely
had meat or chicken or eggs. They had like four
eggs a month.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Yeah. Yeah, it's it's so it's it's it's just it's
a really I don't know. I always recommend it for
people to go because you just can't. It's it's it's you.
I don't know if that level of uh, you know,
it's just so bifurcated. It's so weird my thinking on it.
It's so strange where it's like people are beautiful, trains beautiful,
it's lovely, and the music's incredible. I've never been to
more musical place in my life. New Orleans would be second,
(49:43):
which is saying something, yes, totally, but then you're like, man,
these people have like like there's no help. You know,
It's like it's kind of tragic. It's very tragic.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
I know, I wonder, like I feel like music and
that warmth and that generosity is also like a has
evolved out of that paint too, and that yeah, you
know hardship.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Right, which is another tough, tough thing to stomach. It's like, yeah,
all that pain did bring a certain level of beauty.
Speaker 3 (50:10):
Out of totally.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
Have you ever seen this documentary, Cuba and the Cameraman. No,
It's on Netflix. It's amazing. It was the first time
that I understood because I had always heard my grandma
and my mom talking about, you know, the different phases
of the Cuban Revolution and then what the situation was
looking like when my mom left to go to Mexico.
(50:32):
But that documentary, it's basically it's the same guy a
shot on one camera forty years of traveling to Cuba,
I think every ten years. So you see in the
beginning everything is amazing, and then maybe twenty years later
you see him going to the supermarkets and there's nothing
on the shelves. You see him, you know, going up
to people and he's like, can I get a beer?
Can I get some meat? They're like, we don't have anything.
(50:54):
It was just the first time that I was like, oh, wow,
I've seen I'm seeing now through visuals and images what
my grandma and my mom lived.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
And we're talking because you didn't understand that by the
time you left right.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
When you no, no, no, no, I mean I was seven,
so I definitely I would. You know, as a kid,
you have no stresses and you know your parents. My parents,
I feel like always kind of carried the burdens for me,
like they never you know what I mean. Yeah, So, yeah,
I was having a I was having a great time.
But now I have cousins that like in the past,
(51:29):
every year, I feel like I have new family members
that come because we're trying to get more and more
people kind of out. Yeah and yeah. The things that
they say is like it's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Yeah, yeah, why did your dad go to Cuba by
the way, because he's from Mexico.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
My dad is from Mexico.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
He only went to Cuba after my mom was pregnant
with me, and it was just like to kind of
visit family, got it.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
Yeah all right. It's just such an interesting background that
you have.
Speaker 4 (51:57):
Then I feel very lucky because I just love I
just love having access to like my Cuban side and
my Mexican side, like the people, like the food in Miami.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Like I feel so happy that there's actually one song
that didn't make the album because it's like not cxoxo,
but it was called Broken English that.
Speaker 3 (52:20):
I wrote about my mom.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Oh cool, And there was like this one line that
was like empty chairs at like Christmas dinner table or whatever,
because that's like how Cuban people always describe.
Speaker 3 (52:30):
Like just like immigrant families.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
And for so long, it was like my holidays were like,
you know, just me and my mom and my dad,
and then my sister was born and just the four
of us, and now we're having more and more family
come and it feels very healing for me because I
get to have cousins around and I get to I
don't know, just like have access to a lot of
(52:53):
things about me that were probably just like in me,
but I didn't know that, Oh my cousin has that
same I don't know, like have it as me or yeah,
or like she has the same tick as my mom
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
Like it like feels very healing for me.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
Oh, it's incredible, And I hope you get to go
back one day.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
Me too, But even Miami in that way feels very
healing for me because I get to spend time with
them and yeah, it's just like it feels almost like
it feels like the new home that we've all had
to make because we can't ever like really go back
to Cuba or you know, we wouldn't go back to
Cuba or go to Mexico. So it feels like Miami
is like, Okay, this is like where the new family
(53:34):
line is being kind of created.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
It's amazing. Well, Camilla, thank you so much for making
the album and for coming to LA and talking to
us about I know you'd rather be in Miami, but
you're here in mind.
Speaker 3 (53:47):
No, because then I wouldn't have gone to meet you.
And you're so lovely.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
You're really good with people. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (53:54):
Stop it, no, I really mean it.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
You have you have really great energy, very you have
very calming, kind energy.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Thanks to Camila Cabello
for chatting about the making of her new album Sex.
You can hear all of our favorite Camilokbeo tracks on
a playlist at broken record podcast dot com. Subscribe to
our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast,
where you can find all of our new episodes. You
(54:23):
can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record
is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help
from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliday.
Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you
love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to
Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers
(54:45):
bonus content and ad free listening for four ninety nine
a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions.
And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,
interview us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by
Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond,
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