Heavy MakeUp

True to her Texas roots, Edie Brickell can seemingly find a song anywhere—including out of thin air. Here It Comes is the new album from Edie and her collaborators, CJ Camerieri and Trever Hagen who are known as Heavy MakeUp.

Heavy MakeUp is, of course, only the latest musical iteration for Edie who’s found herself ever evolving over her career. From her first hit with the New Bohemians, co-writing their massive 1988 single “What I Am,” she’s never stopped looking for songs. She even spent the better part of a decade writing and performing with Steve Martin on their very own musical—Bright Star—that ran on Broadway in 2016.

On today’s episode, Bruce Headlam talks with Edie, CJ and Trever about the origins of Heavy MakeUp and the recording of their new album. We'll also hear a short performance demonstrating the unique improvisational nature of their work.

You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite Heavy MakeUp & Edie Brickell songs HERE.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. True to her Texas roots, Edie Burkel can seemingly
find a song anywhere, including out of thin Air. Here
it comes as the new album from Edie and her
collaborators CJ, Camereri and Trevor Hagen, known as Heavy Makeup. Together,
huddled with Edie and her Texas studio, they improvised over

(00:38):
one hundred songs before selecting the eleven that make up
their new album. Heavy Makeup is, of course, only the
latest musical iteration for Edie, who's found herself ever evolving
over her career. From her first hit with the New
Bohemians co writing their massive nineteen eighty eight single What
I Am, She's never stopped looking for songs. She even
spent the better part of last decade writing and performing

(01:00):
with Steve Martin, including their verial musical Bright Star, that
ran on Broadway in twenty sixteen. On today's episode, Edie, CJ,
and Trevor discussed the origins of Heavy Makeup, the making
of the new album, and finish with a short performance
demonstrating the unique improvisational nature of their work. This is

(01:22):
broken record liner notes for the digital age.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
I'm justin Mitchman.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Here's Bruce Hedlam's conversation with Edie Brikel, CJ. Camereri and
Trevor Hagen, who has heavy makeup, released the new album
Here It Comes.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
It's a wonderful album. Tell me the idea behind this album.
Tell me your idea is going into it.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
You guys go ahead, please please.

Speaker 5 (01:46):
Well, this record, much like the first record, kind of
happened before without us knowing we were doing it. We
came to Texas to visit Edie like maybe like exactly
a year ago, right, yes, and the idea was that
we were going to work on this musical. So we
set up all our equipment and we just started jamming

(02:08):
and revising together and it was so much fun that
we did it again the next day and we realized
by the thirteenth day we hadn't actually worked on the
musical at all, So we started working on the musical vigorously.
And yeah, I think we left Trevor can answer this,
but we left with like, well over one hundred songs and.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Right, yeah, it was about one hundred.

Speaker 6 (02:31):
Yeah, different song ideas or different improvisations that we kind
of started, and yeah, different ideas that we're kind of
trying out.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
So tell me what it's like when the three of
you are improvising. What instruments are you playing, What are
you working from? Do you just lay out a few
chords or is it much more free form than that?

Speaker 5 (02:53):
What I kind of think is interesting is that it's
not really that free form, Like we're improvising in song form.
And so I think that that as a starting point
is like an interesting building block, right, because a lot
of when you think about improvisation, you immediately go to jazz,
and jazz is in song for him, but you know
it isn't in pop song for.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Him, let's say.

Speaker 5 (03:13):
And so we create an A section and Edie goes
and then she gives us a look, and then we
know we're going to a chorus or a bridge, and
we go to a chorus, and we go back to
the A section. Or're creating loops and where I'm usually
doing a bunch of synthesizers, and then I also play trumpet,
french horn. Trevor's got a whole big bag of tricks
over on his side of the desk.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
He can tell you about.

Speaker 5 (03:36):
We're immediately trying to inspire Edie to start telling the
story and start singing.

Speaker 4 (03:41):
A song and they do that and it feels effortless.
I feel like they just roll out the red carpet
just for any melody. It's so open and so much fun.
It's just it's it's playful, which is what I love,
and it's welcoming and it's just wide open to just

(04:06):
listened to the magic thread. Whatever sort of falls down
in your thoughts, you just grab a hold and trust
and start climbing up until it weaves into something that
makes sense somehow.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
I'm a little shocked because the idea that you're improvising
lyrics as you go, I think that would terrify most people.
What is it in your background or makeup that makes
that possible?

Speaker 4 (04:38):
Just walking through nature singing as a little kid, just
singing all the time. And then, you know, really breaking
through that one fear of joining a band when I
was in college and I looked at all the majors
and I thought I wouldn't be good at any of
this stuff, and it's not what's in my heart. So

(05:00):
breaking through and joining a band was, you know, taking
the biggest risk of my life to try to live
that dream. And then everything worked out for us. But
when I first joined the band. We would be booked
at little clubs, and we were brand new bands, so
we didn't have enough songs, so we would improvise there

(05:23):
and I tried to make it sound like a song.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
And.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
People ended up feeling it and liking that, and they
would come and see us again in our crowd snowballed
and so it became a part of our shows, and
it was always ended up being my favorite part.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
So we didn't really know this when we got together
with Di. She did.

Speaker 5 (05:48):
Trevor and I were touring with a project called karm
and we had collaborated with Edie on a song and
we were making a music video for it, and she
was like, guys, you should come over and we could
jam one weekend. We were like, sure, let's do it.
So Trevor and I got together. We didn't really know
what we were doing. We were like, you know, we
didn't have a set purpose for being there. We were

(06:09):
trying to start a new band or trying to make
a record or whatever. So we just kind of set
up our gear that we were using on on stage,
and Trevor got a cool thing going on a drum
machine and OPI one. We had a little Yamaha refaced
keyboard and I got a little French worn texture going
with a line six pedal and I remember this incredible

(06:31):
moment where Edie said, do you mind if I sing something?
We're like, of course not, and she just sang a
whole song right, metaphors, stories versus choruses, and we were like, well,
that was funny. And she did this like four or
five times, and then she left the room for a

(06:51):
minute and Trevor looked at me.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
And says, like, what are these I was like, oh,
I'm sure she's like just.

Speaker 5 (06:56):
Been writing lyrics on the side, and you know, it's
just like things she's been working on. And that was
we asked her though, and they were all just really
improvisations and it was perplexing and amazing to be in
the room for that. And and as a musician, it's
a big challenge, right, so you're going to follow, you know,
she says, we're going to a chorus. You got to

(07:18):
play improvised chorus chords right and keep the keep the
energy of the music flowing and follow where her melodies
are going. So it's it was It was a it
was a lot of fun and a fascinating musical challenge. Yeah,
I think and once we kind of started realizing like
CG and I are both I think, you know, we
both in res and jazz before and different environments and

(07:41):
and it is well with many different like not jamming
but long form solos and like things emerge and and uh,
it wasn't It was a little different kind of improvisation
than that. But I think once we figured out, okay,
we're kind of making a painting here, and we just
kind of kind of sit in this chords or in
a beat or in a groove and just kind of

(08:03):
let Edy kind of stare out the window and see
a picture in her head. And then when she starts say,
we can kind of just slowly follow her.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
And then and we.

Speaker 6 (08:13):
Just would do that over and over again. We just
do it for ten minutes, stop, start a new BPM,
started a new progression, and just go I mean for
this album, we did that for every day for yeah,
CJA mentioned for about two weeks, and then we just
had all of these song ideas and it's very exciting
and then we go back through all of them and

(08:33):
we're finding all of these great tunes and then we
have to decide which ones do we keep and which
ones do we let go or come back to or
you know, what fit together in a certain way, the
songs fit together, so really it's it all kind of
emerges in a very natural, intuitive way, and so we're
just trying to We kind of stumbled upon that whole
process really the first time we went and jammed with Eadie,

(08:56):
and so with this album we kind of knew a
little bit more like, Okay, how can we set the
environment correctly?

Speaker 2 (09:03):
More or less Eadie?

Speaker 3 (09:05):
Were you improvising the melody as well over the chords?

Speaker 4 (09:08):
Yes, yes, that's it's really my favorite thing to do
as I As I said before that I discovered with
playing with my first band, with New Bohemians, because the
energy of it is so of the moment you're it's
and you know how everybody says living in the moment

(09:31):
is your is your is the healthiest way to live
and it and that's what I love about inviting these
players to come and jam, because we're all right there
in the moment, and it does make you feel so
alive and so good, and it also makes you trust

(09:51):
the strange first thing that may come, you know, and
and when you allow that to unfold and you hear
the rhymes and you just go with it. Then later
when you listen back, it's it's like a Sometimes it's
a gift to yourself, say oh, look what's Look what it's,
Look what it's whatever. That's what it's saying. Look what's

(10:14):
happening there. And and as a writer, sitting down with
an instrument playing a chord progression with piano, I wouldn't
flow in that same way. That's why I really like
to flow as a singer making melodies and lyrics as
a band plays, because it completely frees me up. All

(10:35):
we're engaging in a conversation together. We're really listening to
each other, and it's like writing on the best roller
coaster and or doing just something really super fun together,
and we're you're really just connected with other people in
a musical conversation, and that musical conversation involves unpredictable energy

(10:59):
and unpredictable emotions and imagery that just flow out.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
So you weren't playing at all during this, you were
just singing.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
I'm just singing.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
So I'm interested if you sat down with one of
these songs and I want to talk through some of
the songs later and you were playing the guitar chords
along with it. You don't think you would have the
same experience as a singer and writer.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
I wouldn't. I would know, I would be mindful of
the structure, whereas with this, I can play with phrasing,
I can play with the energy of it a lot better.
And as CJ pointed out, I mean I can just
give the guys a look that says, Okay, I'm finished

(11:45):
with this partner, let's move on and we But they
feel it too. It's it's really not It's not a
lot that I'm directing at all. I'm not. I can
just glance over. It's almost like a courtesy look where
they won't change until I offered it. Okay.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
You know, it's a shame this is a podcast because
you just gave be that look, and you know, I
thought I should wrap things up. It was like, well,
onto the B section, you know, the look of the interview.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, no, I'm not going to mess with that.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
We'll be right back with more from Heavy Makeup. After
the break, we're back with Edie Brokel, c J Camery
and Trevor Hagen of Heavy Makeup.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
The fact that you were doing this mainly with electronic instruments.
I mean, there were a couple things in this that
really interested me on is you did very little treatment
of Edie's voice, And there was something about the different
temperatures of the sounds coming out the electronic sounds and

(12:55):
you know, I'm going to deal in cliches here, but
we tend to think of them as technological and quite cold,
but then her voice was very, very warm. It was
really something in the album. Was that something you want
to preserve or.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Not not not?

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Maybe intuitively, I think.

Speaker 6 (13:16):
Eatie's voice is so centering I think to of course,
to every song, so it's kind of leading that just
front and center, and you know, we we experiment a
few different times, maybe trying to like bring the voice
down to the mix a little different, and there's some affecting,
but really it's just that was just like it just
flowed so nicely within already the mix of what we've

(13:38):
been doing and all the treatments we've been doing, and
it just didn't need it.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
It just just spoke for itself.

Speaker 6 (13:45):
Not that other things needed it either way, but this
is just kind of, like it said, it's a different flavor,
a different texture and it seems like it almost comes
out in a very unexpected way sometimes, So yeah, we
just kind of let that flow and we never really
looked back. I don't think, you know, we've I mean
there's a few times maybe we try something, but it
was pretty good otherwise.

Speaker 5 (14:07):
Yeah, and I think, I mean, it's it's a really
great question and something I definitely noticed and thought about
from an arrangement perspective. Yeah, I think a lot of times,
I mean, there might be horns on every song, which,
as I say, that is like a little bit embarrassing,
but I think sometimes the horn texture and character kind

(14:28):
of bridges that like purity of the vocal sound with
the electronic instrument, So it's sort of like in between.
Trevor would treat the horns in a certain way a
lot of times, so it kind of characterized, you know,
both sort of you played with both characters.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
Yeah, I think I misspoke because there's times I'm particularly
thinking of the first song, Shoe in the Air, that
there's a nice but trumpet duet. I think it's both trumpets,
but I might be wrong. Trumpet duet that kind of
starts before the vocals come in. It's very very warm
and it's really lovely pace.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Right, So it's a little bit of like you know,
sonic foreshadowing.

Speaker 5 (15:04):
Yeah, kind of bridges those two worlds, but there, you know,
it's it's the world we're interested in. So it's what
we with the instruments we had when we showed up,
you know, and so and yeah, it just kind of
happened naturally.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
This is going to sound like a naive question, but
I think I would know how someone would compose at
a piano. I think I might know how they would
compose at a guitar with a guitar part in me.
But when you sit down with electric electronic instruments, you generally,
you guys use like small MIDI controller.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Is that what you're using? Yeah, I mean, well, like
there's a bunch of keyboards.

Speaker 6 (15:44):
I mean I think CG and I have like a
setup like a table together, and I think that kind
of kind of came out of working in karm together.
And so we're kind of connected with keyboards, drum machine,
MIDI controllers and other small instruments to kind of we're
kind of playing a set up together in some way.

(16:04):
And and and that allows us to i mean c
JO to have you know, agnored to reface and he'll
be playing those. So we have you know, uh, synthesizers,
and it's not just midti, but we have that to
control you know, loops and to control different parameters of
stuff when we're playing live more but essentially when we're improvising,

(16:25):
we have these. We're all connected, you know, kind of
to it's some kind of breathing breathing heart or beating heart,
I guess Trevor would. Trevor kind of makes the initial
decision with picking a BPM, you know, and so like okay,
you know, and so what is that where you know,
and then I sort of pick a synthesizer sound you know,
we have you have four or five different keyboards or

(16:46):
all create a front shorn texture, the line six pedal
or harming you trumpet thing which you know pushes here there.
The thing we really learned was one of the fun
lessons of that time in Texas, was we'd immediately try
to make the most interesting thing we could make, right,
So Trevor would get a beat going, and I'd create
a synth texture and then I'd add a little harm

(17:08):
in you trumpet with a delay, and Edie would get
the light bulb and she want to start singing, but
then I would add a move base part.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
She'd be like, oh, no, now I'm thinking about another thing.

Speaker 5 (17:20):
And then Trevor would ad to you know, because we
created the thing that we thought was really good, but
like we weren't paying attention to like her initial moment
of inspiration that she needed to like follow and trust
right away.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
And so she say, hey, it's.

Speaker 5 (17:33):
Really cool, you did a cool thing, but we need
to like, you know, but now I'm got three stories
going in my head and I got to just pick
the one and focus on it.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
So it's it's just like this, this whole project is
such a.

Speaker 5 (17:43):
Fascinating music musical journey and like exploring your skill sets.
You know, Trevor and I both been professional musicians for
twenty years, and this just really draws upon everything we've
ever had to do.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Because it's chamber music, but it's jazz.

Speaker 5 (17:58):
But these are you know, what end up being sort
of like pop songs, and you know, it's you're using
all of these skills and it's and it's you have
to trust them.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
You know, you can't say, but maybe this one will
be better. No, you can't. You can't do that, because
then near you missed it.

Speaker 4 (18:14):
You know.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
So once you had the songs that the eleven songs
you wanted on the album, did you then redo them?

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Did you re record them?

Speaker 3 (18:23):
Did you add elements? How did how did that happen?
How did the actual recording happen?

Speaker 5 (18:29):
So?

Speaker 6 (18:29):
Yeah, so after I mean, we recorded everything down in
Texas that time, and then we kind of peered down
those we'll say, one hundred ideas down to twenty and
then from there we're like, okay, these we actually I
think we maybe had fifteen that we really worked on,
and there's there's four that didn't three or four that
we really worked on a lot afterwards that didn't make
it on to the album that just didn't fit with

(18:52):
the other tunes in the flow of the whole things.
We kind of had to pick these eleven songs and
how they spoke to each other.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
But okay, was that an argument?

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Were we uh no, really, I don't think so. No,
We're yeah, no, no, it was it was there. They're great.

Speaker 6 (19:07):
I think Edi has a great you have a great
way to say, how you like to choose these songs?

Speaker 4 (19:13):
I do?

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yeah, well, puppies.

Speaker 4 (19:17):
Oh, it's like choosing puppies. Yeah, it's impossible for me.
So I love them all. So I trust. I like
these musicians. I like these guys there. I trust their ears.
And that's a big element of this whole kind of
band is trust across the board. I trust that they're

(19:39):
great musicians. I trust their ears. I trust that they
can help me as a songwriter find that song that's
more interesting. And I think they've done that, and they'll
show them to me, because I haven't heard all those
hundreds of songs that we've done. They curate them and
then they give them to me, and so many of

(20:02):
them I've just completely forgotten about. And the last time
we got together, they said, oh, you got to check
this out, you and the air and and I love
that they chose that and that they pointed out that
that was good and so and then they they'll edit them.
And so from those edits, I'll take that initial subconscious

(20:24):
song and write a second or third verse if it
needs it. But the one song on this album that
most excites me is Let Them Lie, because it was
just a complete improv. It's one that we didn't touch

(20:45):
the only thing that they touched is that Trevor had
to change the vocal tone because we recorded it in
this room in this barn that I'm in here, and
when these lads are on, they had a little buzz
and they and since we didn't know that they were
going to make an album, we didn't eliminate the buzz

(21:05):
and he what did you do?

Speaker 6 (21:07):
You just fixed that was just to just put a
filter on it, because there was this budget buzz that
you know, I don't know, ten thousand.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Killer hurts, and so it was.

Speaker 6 (21:17):
Maybe like just had to put little filter on it,
and then it gave this really nice dark quality to
Edie's voice. And then then there's a little treatment on
that too, with every voice is a little treatment, but
it's trying not.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
To like mask the tone of her voice at all.
So just just a little bit gave it a nice.

Speaker 6 (21:36):
Sound to even what Edie is singing about too, which
is a very kind of internal monologue.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
That that song has.

Speaker 6 (21:43):
So there's definitely editing and things that happen in the songs,
but there are like these beautiful passages, like you know,
songs like let Them Lie or they have It all improvised,
the lyrics at the choruses, solos, beats, whatever, whatever we
got on there. So it's very exciting to see that
process and even things like showing there like those are

(22:05):
I believe all the original lyrics, and maybe there's a
lot of original it takes on the album that we
kept from those recordings from me here, its just one word,
and you just changed one word from Merovs.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
He changed it from like him to his or something
something like right, I.

Speaker 4 (22:26):
Don't even remember. I think it's it's I don't know.

Speaker 5 (22:29):
But so I think in almost every song you're hearing
you know, you're in the room, and I think that
that is hopefully what makes it special, and you're hearing
just these really honest like this sound makes me feel this,
those words make me want to do this musically, like
you know, you're really you're really hearing you know, a
chamber music exercise.

Speaker 6 (22:49):
Yeah, yeah, the kernel the idea of every song that
feeling like that. Every song was improvised and happened in
the room to three of us together, and then there's
some shaping that happened afterwards and things like that, but
the spirit of it is all from us just sitting
around looking at each other and smiling and nodding and
playing music in a very in a very great way.
It's really it's a special in some way, especially after

(23:11):
coming from the pandemic of years of being locked away
and doing remote things. This is great to be in
the room together.

Speaker 4 (23:17):
Yeah, And what I wanted to say this about let
them lie too it. I do love that he changed
that sound and then it ended up happening that way
because it is, as he mentioned, this internal kind of
thought process within the song. But the other thing I
like about it is I think that at one point

(23:37):
CJ wanted to change the tone of a chorus and
suggested that I re sing that so that we could
have this bigger tone. And we went into a recording
studio and what I recognized immediately is I couldn't get
the same phrasing. I couldn't match it. And because it

(24:02):
was improvised, it has a different movements. It almost has
a delay where I can hear that I'm thinking, I'm
looking for the next rhyme, And so it's a little
a little past a moment. You can see, you could
you could feel like just the energy of it is
a little slower and a little more relaxed because it's

(24:27):
and then all of a sudden it speeds up because
once I realize what it wants to say, then it
just flows out quickly. But it lands a little funny.
And I could never get that landing correctly. And see
J kept trying trying to say, no, it's a little
it's a little cooler than that, it's a little past that,
and I couldn't do it.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
M h I was.

Speaker 4 (24:47):
I would love when they kept it, I said, I
just and and also the way it feels is what
I was telling you before. If I were playing an
instrument and writing a song, I wouldn't write it in
that way. But when other people are playing and that
magic happens, you do flow in this other way that
then you can't even imitate later mm hmm.

Speaker 5 (25:07):
The other interesting thing about that song, too, is is
that you know a lot of these songs, you know,
we'll go back and we'll add a bass element, or
we'll add you know, an arrangement, a horn arrangement, or
you know, Trevor will find the drums or add a
you know, a counter melody, or and in this song,
I was just like, oh, we got to add bass.

(25:27):
Obviously nobody was playing bass on the song, and it
just didn't work. I kept trying to do it, and
we'd listen to it and be like, that's not the song.
That wasn't what was in the room, you know, And yeah,
it's just a really amazing exercise to trust the what
happens in the room is.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Is the kernel of inspiration that you have to go
with and you really have to believe in it.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
You had a lovely phrase for this, which is you
said that it was like they were creating a soundtrack
to a movie and then you had to write the movie.

Speaker 4 (25:59):
Yes, yeah, that's right. You hear the music and then
the images come as opposed to that opposite way of creating,
And that's what would happen. You would you just listen
and you pay attention to what what are the images
in the in the music, and then and then if
it if it's articulated in a thought, I'll hear it,

(26:22):
and then I'll just go hm. Because if you edit
something like I thought I saw a flying saucer, but
it was just only issue in the air. If you
edit that, you don't get to find out what that means.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
Did you know what it meant when you said it?

Speaker 4 (26:39):
No, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's what I'm saying
you you say, well, I remember saying many times, especially
the very first time we ever played together, I say, Okay,
I'm hearing something really odd, but I'm just gonna say
it okay, And they were like okay, and then I
don't I can't even remember what that one. Oh, I
think it was. I don't remember.

Speaker 6 (27:01):
I think I know what we were talking about. It
maybe could be, Yeah, that was something, those lines.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
I mean, you never know. I think it's really important
not to edit the moment of inspiration. I think you
just allow it and let it show you something. Is
it going to show you you're really goofy playful side
or is it going to sound like it's goofy and
then turn into something far more meaningful, which often happens

(27:32):
for me.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
Is there a particular song you have in mind when
you say that, well, Shoe in the Air, Shoe in
the Air.

Speaker 4 (27:38):
Yeah, And even again, I love the idea of let
them Lie because there was just a lot of truth
in that for me.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
Now, I love a lot of these songs. But I've
wanted to ask you about Under Construction for this reason,
which is and I think it's all through the album,
but it's not as though your improvisations.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Are just.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
What people might worry they're going to hear, which is
just like, oh, it's her feelings. You actually really establish
characters in these songs, and I think that's one of
the strongest songs for that. But all the songs have
like I don't think, oh, this is the innermost thoughts
of Edie Brukel. I think, wow, she's she's made a
character here while you're improvising, which I found really impressive.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Do you put.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
Yourself Are you putting yourself in a different role? Are
you thinking consciously of that?

Speaker 4 (28:36):
I'm not thinking consciously of of any of it. I'm
just trusting what comes and letting it lead me.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
Okay, I'll put it another way, which is you are
also a Are you a Tony winning.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
Broadway?

Speaker 5 (28:56):
No?

Speaker 4 (28:56):
No, we but but no, we were Tony nominated.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Okay, you're Tony nominated, then you're a Hamilton.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
Well that was oh my god, yeah you did really well.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
No No, I mean no, there was just no chance
that for for any of us. Uh that yeah, that
that that was so spectacular.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
But you did Bright Star and that so much fun.
But that was writing and in that case it was
writing in characters, very strong characters.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah did that?

Speaker 3 (29:26):
Did that kind of help with this kind of work?

Speaker 4 (29:29):
You know what? Yeah, you made me understand that it did,
because I hadn't really thought about that before. But what
I did recognize during that time period was how much
I loved writing for a character and then hearing these
these people sing, and really the people who loved perform,
like Carmen and and everyone everybody who loves to perform,

(29:50):
to getting to hear them, seeing those character songs felt
really good. So you're right, and it takes you, It
does take you out of yourself and my feelings, so
and that and that feels better because again it's just colorful.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
But also they seemed like not all of them, but
this seems like New York stories to me. And I
think people can tell from your accent that you're not
from New York.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
Yeah, you know, I often think about Dorman because I
love all the Doorman and our building in New York.
We I and I lived there for a while, you know,
And I see that they see births and people coming
in with new babies, and then they see people leaving
covered under sheets, and anyway, they entered into that song

(30:39):
in a playful way, I think, And there was a
lot of funny characters in elevators too.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
I think what you're saying is you lived in a
nicer building that I lived in when I lived in,
not the sixth floor WALKA.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
After this last break, we'll be back with the rest
of Bruce Hellim's conversation with Heavy Makeup. We're back with
the rest of Bruce's conversation with Edie Brokel, CJ. Cameri,
and Trevor Hagen of Heavy Makeup.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
I want to ask all of you how you all
got to this point, and I will start with you, Edie,
which is I know you grew up in Dallas. Was
your family musical?

Speaker 4 (31:22):
They weren't professional musicians, but they sang all the time,
both my mom and my dad. And my dad had
a very sweet, soft voice, and my mother just sang
all the time. She was a working woman who sang
to bring joy into her life every morning, getting ready
for work, in the car on the way to work,

(31:42):
taking us to school. She just sang all the time.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
And what did she sing?

Speaker 4 (31:48):
Everything? Everything that she loved. She was crazy about BB
King and she used to sort of imitate BB King.
She could make that face that he makes. It was
really fun. She sang oh boy, and she looked and
sang a lot like Aretha Franklin when she danced, and

(32:09):
then she would flip it to a country sensation and
she would sing one of her favorite songs is uh
he Stopped loving her today? She would play that over
and over, so.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
You know it was.

Speaker 4 (32:22):
It was varied, but mostly R and B or dance
for her.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Interesting and was there a song either when your mom
sang or when you heard on the radio that just
made a really early impact on you that said, no,
no music's for me.

Speaker 4 (32:41):
Oh, Nothing from Nothing? I loved that song. That was
one of my first and superstition those I bought. Those
were my first singles that I ever bought. But I
love that piano part and Nothing from Nothing Billy Preston.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
Yeah, oh amazing. Back back when you could buy forty fives.
That was so great, wasn't it.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yeah, I love that, Trevor. Can I ask you the
same question, is there was there an early song an
impression of music that that just grabbed you?

Speaker 4 (33:11):
You know?

Speaker 6 (33:11):
My real I think love for music came through through
jazz and through people like Loneus Monk Charles Mingus, Miles Davis.
I think those and that's probably the case for a
lot of you know, jazz heads out there. But I
think jazz also introduced me to whole, you know, two

(33:31):
different social relations in the South, to like a whole
different set of histories of people and sounds. So but
of course Monk is I mean, I'm not sure if
I can say a particular a song, but it was
always Monk, Miles and Mingus, and then then later Luy
Armstrong and Ellington. But uh, I think jazz for me

(33:52):
was also a way to really find a sense of
belonging as like a kid you're just you know, I
had I could played in jazz band, I had friends
really into jazz, We learned about jazz, so really it
was kind of an opportunity to also, you know, make
friends because I wasn't playing sports. I wasn't on a
basketball team or football tea or something. So I really
had a strong social connection with music growing up, where

(34:14):
it was also a way of like how I was
even you know, spending time with my friends.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
It's funny you mentioned Mingus because particularly his stuff is
not it seems close in spirit a little bit to
what you guys are doing, which is it's a group
improvisation and his group is so solid that way, it's
not it's not the you take a solo, then I
take a solo. Then it's much more ensemble based.

Speaker 6 (34:41):
Absolutely, and even playing a lot of I know in
CJ also play a lot of big band stuff. I
mean you're from a player at some point you're always
playing big band stuff. But I got to experience a
lot of chance to play a lot of Ellington as well.
And so Ellington and mingus you are going these very
beautifully composed pieces with timbres of you know, a jazz band,

(35:03):
but then having solos coming out and telling a story
through composition but also improvisation. So yeah, all of really
those I think that energy was always it still is
very important to me.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
I still have a lot of puts a lot of
value in music in that way.

Speaker 4 (35:20):
CJ.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
Can I ask you the same you what was like,
was there an early song, early memory on the radio,
something that said, oh yeah, that's for me, you know
for me?

Speaker 2 (35:32):
It happened later.

Speaker 5 (35:33):
I started playing piano when I was four years old
because my dad, my dad was as a musician. He
was a middle school band director, and so I heard
him teaching piano lessons at the house all the time,
and from the time I could talk, just begging him
to let me start doing it. You know, like I
music was inside me, and you know, you know, from
a super young age, and I started playing trumpet when

(35:55):
I was seven or eight, and I was obsessed with him.
I was a kid that was like twelve years old,
practice in six hours a day of the trumpet, and like,
you know, I knew I wanted to be a professional
trumpet player, and I just didn't know what that meant
and what music that would be. And all the way
through college, I went to Juilliard and I got to
do a classical trumpet, even though when I was when

(36:16):
I got there, I wanted to be a jazz musician.
And the first gig I played out of college was
totally a free jazz gig, and I just really didn't
know what kind of music I wanted to make until
I was in a fan I'll never forget it. On
my way to Buffalo, New York to play a totally
free gig with this great trumpet player named Peter Evans

(36:38):
and a bass player named Mapa Elliott Trumbone player named
David Taylor, and they put on SOUPI Young Stevens come
on Fell the Illinois record, and it was there's so
many awesome trumpet parts and woodwind parts and string parts
on that, but it was in the context of these songs.
I just had so much life and spirit to them,
and I was like, that's what I want to do.
That's how I want to like use these skills I've

(37:00):
been working at with no real idea on how where
to apply them. So I was just I became obsessed
with like finding my way into again Steven's band, and
that became sort of like the catalyst for my whole career.
But I mean just I'll never forget that moment of
like going to play a totally free jazz gig and
hearing these like, you know, simple poppy folk songs. Not simple,

(37:23):
but like it was really catchy, beautiful songs that I
had these trumpet melodies on them, and it was just really.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
That was it for me.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
Yeah, it's like the the it's not the outro, but
the end of and Andrew Jackson songs got that great
trumpet bit. And but it's interesting, were you not interested
in pop music at all before that.

Speaker 5 (37:42):
No, I uh, it never never really connected to me.
I was I was raised like pretty conservative Christian when
I was young, so we didn't listen to a lot
of popular music.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
But I was jazz. I was obsessed with like like
operating the instrument.

Speaker 5 (37:59):
So I was really obsessed with jazz from a like
learn every Clipper Ground solo and the Louis Armstrong solo
and just with classical music from it, like learned the parts,
you know, learn this, like expand your skill set. But
I knew, I yeah, like I said, I want to
be I didn't sort of know that the trumpet could
have this life outside of those two really kind of
you know, institutionalized genres.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
That's amazing. Did did anything at Juilliard prepare you for
this experience?

Speaker 2 (38:28):
No, that's not true.

Speaker 5 (38:30):
Chamber of music, I really, I always, I always was
involved in chamber of music. And this is like chamber
music on the like highest, highest, highest level because you're
improvised that you're improvising as a group, trying to make
these songs and trusting each other and communicating with your
eyes and you know a lot of like you know
the cues that you use in chamber music, and yeah,

(38:53):
and trusting each other. You know, I know that they're
going to start this at the right tempo and then
I'm gonna be able to add my part into that,
and they're not going to play too soft because then
I'll sound too loud. And yeah, all these like chamber
music skills you learned in college. So definitely, definitely. And
I also had an amazing teacher when I was at
Juilliard kind of like made sure I was prepared for
anything that came my way.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
I was like, that wasn't a shot at Juilliard, I
want to be clear.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
I mean I could take a shot at Juliard. No.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
No, although my brother's at Eastman, so you just have
to you know, it's a little competitive ya.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
You know what, though, when you said when you discovered
your music, I think I listening to them. I realized
what you meant when I got older. When I was young,
what I wrote on the radio were those two first
favorite songs, Superstition and Nothing from Nothing. They were my
first favorite songs. But when I went out and started

(39:44):
looking for music, when I found Duke Ellington and Bob
Wills and the Texas Playboys, I thought, this is I
love this music and I would often put it on
to bring sunshine into my kitchen when I was raising
the kids. That's the music that made me happiest.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
Okay, Trevor. I was really interested in something you once
wrote about the trumpet, which was I hope you don't
regret writing this, but I'm going to say it anyway,
which is, and I don't remember your phrase, but essentially
that the martial element of the trumpet, the role of
trumpet in war is something I don't I think I'm

(40:24):
actually mixing it up with phrase from one of the songs,
but it's in the trumpets DNA essentially, I.

Speaker 6 (40:31):
Mean absolutely, I remember this very very well. I mean
I got my first flugelhorn. I was playing it and
it was like this French maker called couinone, and somehow
I figure out that this by like you can see
how the design of the writing and everything like this
you could trace it back to like maybe late eighteen
nineties France, and you're like, wow, this flugelhorn was probably

(40:52):
used in the French Algerian War, and this is like
a standard issue for the French military.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
And here I am with this piece of metal on
my face, and.

Speaker 6 (41:00):
Somehow that whole connection to what this instrument was made
for in society in the world really hit me very hard,
where I'm like, I'm playing this military instrument, this is
was used to communicate and battlefields across long distances and
this is and all of a sudden, this whole other
energy of the instrument kind of like started to show

(41:21):
his face to me, and and and and I think
I just kind of took that and ran with a
little bit with with how I was even playing the
instrument or approaching it, and how to think about discourse
and appropriate or not appropriate ways of playing it, and
what what this instrument has been throughout history. And and

(41:43):
it's still is kind of crazy when you know CGI
will won't be playing trumpet or these two military instruments
you know inside, but you can play them very softly
and beautifully. But there's still that element where this is
like a caged beast or something like this, but you
can really open it up if you want to. And
and the other kinds of not unknown territories, but one
that's it's uh, it's not as seen as much anymore

(42:07):
with the trumpet, I think, and we see, we hear
a lot of is their association of like the more
biblical heralding aspect of it the beauty aspect of it.
And so there's these two sides to it that are
both kind of it's fun and play with.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Conceptually, I'm interested because I came to this album with
certain expectations of electronic music. And it's not that I
don't like electronic music. Certainly, when I was growing up
in the eighties, there was a lot of like the
early electropop, and some of it I thought was terrific.
But to me it's DNA is kind of cold and

(42:45):
technological and a little bit scary. I guess it doesn't
feel that way in this record, but I'm just wondering
how you felt about using these instruments with this.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
In this way. I mean, I think for me, I
know exactly what you're what you mean, that's.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
Good, because I said it terribly.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
Completely, no is good.

Speaker 5 (43:11):
I think that I don't want to speak for Driver,
but I think that both of us coming from this instrument,
that's you know, you're thinking melodies and you're thinking textures.
When when we're approaching these other instruments, these electronic instruments
and drum machines, and you're we're the same musicians. Our
formative time was spent playing melodies and finding these melodic
paths through musical challenges, and uh, when we improvise, be

(43:36):
improvised searching for melodies. And so I think that that's
one thing that hopefully has made it so seamless working
with Edie, who's literally searching for a melody. Is you know,
when I play chords, I'm thinking melodically, I'm not really feeling,
you know, harmonic movement like a guitar player or like
someone who only plays piano. And I feel the same

(43:58):
way about the way Trevor uses beats. It's musical, it's
from you know, it's from the song first. Right, We
try to initially inspire an idea by putting out a
fresh new sound for Edie, and we see your imagination go,
We see the light bulb go off, and then we're there.
You were using these instruments that we're using them to
support a song, right, We're not using them to urt anyone, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (44:20):
Although the album starts with a really great drum sound
and I on on a shoe in the air and
I was I was hoping those were real drums, but
they're not.

Speaker 6 (44:30):
No, there's they're they're all no those I mean, the
texture sounds real, but those are all different sounds and
different kits that that I kind of prepare or I
don't know, like you know, just finding sounds that all
kind of.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Go together and they kind of play off each other.

Speaker 6 (44:47):
And and it's fun to think about a drum kit
because you don't have to on a drum machine, but
you do, so you're making sounds that kind of help
each other.

Speaker 4 (44:56):
I guess.

Speaker 6 (44:57):
So I think even just just you know, and for
some reason that those more that and also enough running around,
they just needed that kind of low tome. They just
needed that that sound that's kind of hard to find
and like let's say electronic drum sounds, No.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
I thought it was really and there's something there's something
very effective about when electric sounds approximate instruments but don't
quite get there. I'm thinking of like those early you know,
if you think of those David Bowie songs that had
a lot of melotron on it, I always find that
sound just heartbreaking because it's not strings instead, it's this

(45:36):
it's this weird tape machine, which I gather was impossible
to use, but.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
It's got this.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
It has this different effect than strings totally.

Speaker 6 (45:43):
And there'll be times, I mean just going through and
finding sounds that maybe appeal to you and you know,
and as CJ said to finding different sounds on a
on a keyboard and those are you know, it's just
one of the fun parts of playing electronic music is
just you can really dig into different sounds and shape
them in a way that's really kind of this what
we want to call it a self reflexive aesthetic technique.

(46:06):
We're like, oh, this this, this sound really appeals to me.
Like it and find it, and you know, I really
locked in. I think we just kind of really spent
a lot of time finding nice palettes of sounds we'd
like to hear together. And those did come away from
I think a more dark electronic sound and with eats,
melodies and lyrics, they kind of all helped shape the

(46:27):
sound together where it's not hopefully cold or distressing or
which sometimes aboutronic music can.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Fall into m I.

Speaker 5 (46:37):
Mean, Trevor, Trevor makes it in a certain way with it,
and that really helped all of these sounds, you know,
not not be painful and you know, serve these songs.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
And we also ran it through an old soundboard, which
gave it a lot of.

Speaker 5 (46:52):
Depth, and some of the some of the tracks we
put through a tape machine, and so we really tried
to kind of balance balance all these different elements.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
A song, and I gather it's the single is wait
for It, which I really love. And what I mentioned
earlier about the the contrast between the electronic instruments and
Edie's voice, I think that's a that's one of the
best examples on the record. Can you talk about making that, Eadie.

Speaker 4 (47:18):
It's basically the same thing that happened before. They just
play it, just played this very inspiring piece of music
and I just started singing, you know, wait for It.

Speaker 5 (47:31):
Just just.

Speaker 4 (47:33):
I just started having fun and then it it just
flowed out. And all I can say is it They're
very very inspiring.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
M h.

Speaker 4 (47:43):
And so I sing when I'm inspired.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
Are you one of those singers? Do you have a
picture in your head when you're singing?

Speaker 2 (47:50):
Or is it just.

Speaker 4 (47:51):
Sometimes I do? But but sometimes just it's it's just
a musical phrase like that one does start with wait
for It. So then it's it's just the sense of
that melody that dud Duda just playing you know, and
just noticing, Okay, that's what the phrase wants to be

(48:12):
and it wants to be repeated. It just happened so
fast it's hard to explain. You just go with it,
and then after you say that a couple of times,
you realize, well, I can't just say this over and
over and over, so now what do I do? And
then if you're waiting for something, oh, here it comes,

(48:32):
and you just like I said, but that wasn't even
a conscious decision.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
It's just.

Speaker 4 (48:39):
One thing leads to another and you just you just go.
And then when those guys listen back to it later,
I guess you know, he Trevor will edit it and
send it back and you hear that that idea was realized.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
M hm.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Was that a song you had to add additional lyrics
to or it all came from the first session.

Speaker 4 (49:05):
Yeah, that that all came out and and I think
the phrasing on that is kind of weird too. It's
not like something I would consciously write. And so yeah,
you just just go in and try to get a
good vocal take of it. If it was if there
was an edit in there, and if there were or

(49:25):
if there if there was one, yeah, or if it was,
if it was not articulated. Well, I like, I remember
on the first record, I couldn't tell what I was
saying in one of the things. I said, what what
what is that? It's just a sound and Trevor said,
I think you're saying pivot. I was like, oh, I

(49:47):
like it. Okay, So that kind of thing can happen
where it's not there's it's you don't have clarity, so
you have to listen to the context, context of the
song and the content and then go in and plug
something in. Mm hmm, but I don't. I don't know
if we did on that or not.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
No, that's that's the song.

Speaker 5 (50:06):
We kept every lyric from the yeah improv And then
I think, but I think you had you re sang it,
but I think you changed, like yeah, just like one
where like him to his or something something that was
like oh right, yeah, I guess it is pastance or
you know, it was some kind of little like the
tiniest edit.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yeah, yeah, I mean what you're hearing is what happened.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
So CJ, you said you don't think harmonically when you
were writing for this album particularly, or you're not that
kind of Plaire. A lot of the uh, because these
were pop songs and a lot of the sort of
the harmony seems like like pop music. I mean that
in a nice way, of course, But two songs to

(50:50):
me sounded and I could be totally wrong, they almost
sounded like R and B songs how many times and
so emotional? Can you tell me about those songs because
they to me, I can't take a lot of these
songs out of the context of how you guys created them,
But those are songs I think, wow, wow, Like Al

(51:11):
Green could do a great job with this. They're different
kinds of songs were they Can you anybody describe just
writing those?

Speaker 5 (51:21):
Both of those were kind of reactions to the beats
Trevor started with, you know, so like he'll start, you know,
be with all this various tools, and you know, something
will feel like yeah, feel mo towny. I mean, I
do think harmonically, but I'm not thinking like, oh, wouldn't
it be cool to go to a four chord here.

(51:42):
I'm usually thinking like, like, you know, the voice leading,
you know, thinking about the voice leading in a melodic
sense because I know I can trust that, rather than
just sort of like only thinking functionality you know, of course,
but yeah, I mean, like for me, I think that
you know, due to the due to the reality of

(52:05):
how we make these songs, and that it starts from
a BPM. If I start an idea before Trevor's started
to beat, he then has to like tap with the
tempo and figure out what tempo I'm playing a thing at,
and it's super clunky, So it usually starts with him.
So I'm usually reacting to what Trevor's done, and then
Edie's you know, sort of like reacting to the sum
of the parts that we create.

Speaker 6 (52:29):
Again, that's just kind of how how we've done our
setup and how we're kind of all connected and just
kind of how, yeah, how it has to happen. But like, yeah,
we're working with you know, things kind of connected through
MIDI and so just having a little bit of a yeah,
a little bit of process it helps just get it going.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (52:48):
I wish we could do it for you now, I
really do. It would be so much fun.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
That might be tricky over zoom though, right, Yeah, the
latency of zoom it's just brutal. Yeah, well, the next
time I see you, we'll do it. It's an amazing project.
What is next for it?

Speaker 2 (53:07):
I think it's some very question. Is fame and fortune
in most Yeah, No, we're gonna you know where.

Speaker 5 (53:14):
The record comes out June twenty eighth, and we're really
excited about that with a beautiful colored final like different colors,
and it really looks great and we're super proud of it.
We're going to play some shows opening for Bruce Hornsby
in the fall. It was a long time supporter of
various projects we've all done, and we did this past fall.

(53:36):
We did some shows where we just improud showed well.
We did two sets, the first set with songs and
the second set was just fully improvised songs, and it
was pretty thrilling to do that in front of the
live audience. And so we're gonna hopefully do a lot
more of that.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
What's what's what's an audience's reaction to that?

Speaker 4 (53:56):
I think I think it's weird and it's hard to
unless people can feel it. It's hard to help people
understand that it's happening right now. Because although somebody pointed
out that people do that in hip hop, right, they

(54:17):
have those style, Yeah, they'll do that, and so people
do this all the time. That that's the tricky part
is having people understand that it's it's right here, it's
right now, and it's and if it's sometimes people can think,
I don't, who knows it's it's it's just hard to

(54:39):
to convey that. Or you could do the trick of
it and say, okay, if you want to be sure
that you're involved in this or it's happening now, we
write down an idea or a song suggestion and you
can pull that out of the hat and and you
can do that. It makes you feel like you're proving
something though, and it has less to do with inspiration.

(55:02):
But it can be done, and we have done that.
But I always feel a little silly doing that just
to show that, yes, that's what it is.

Speaker 5 (55:11):
That way feels a little bit like a year. You're
doing a trick, right, you do it? You know it's
a little gimmicky.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
That's a it's a comedy, improv you.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
Know, it's funny.

Speaker 5 (55:20):
We'll we'll say to a crowd like this, these are
like the first that were songs we wrote, you know,
and it's the way we write. And now we're going
to do this completely improvised whatever and somebody will just say, like,
was the first one?

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Is that one from your record? You know, We're like, no, no,
we do. But I think it's just so uncommon.

Speaker 5 (55:37):
Right, even when you go and you see jazz jazz
group improvise, right, they start with a song that they
know that's usually a standard or something that they want
the main artists wrote. Right, they start with something, and
so I think you're not You're really not used to
seeing people start with zero.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Right.

Speaker 5 (55:53):
We don't talk about any aspect that we don't talk about,
like bpms or that we're going to get, you know,
the arc of the speed of the songs, or the tonality.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
We don't talk about anything, And so I think it's
just so uncommon in this.

Speaker 5 (56:08):
You know, the hip is a different context, but even that,
like the music behind the improvisations, the improvising lyrics is
pre planned. You know, this is really just so I
think it's it's it's just you know, you and there's
a you train an audience, right, you like, you get
people on board just by talking about it and just

(56:28):
got to keep doing it, you know.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
But you know, pop music works in part because of repetition,
you know, that's what that's what gives people that satisfying
sense that you're coming back to the theme at the end.
And we might be scaring people off this album of
the way we're talking about it.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
I hope not.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
But these feel like realized pop songs.

Speaker 4 (56:51):
They have a.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
What would I say, like the sort of topography of
a top of a song. They build up A couple
of them sort of start in a little bit of chaos,
and then there's this huge build and they end in
a little bit of chaos.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
But it's all.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
This isn't like free form jazz that your friend is doing.
That is just torture to listen to. It's improvised pop songs.
And I think that's what's so hard. Maybe I found
so hard to get my head around. As much as
I was enjoying it, I was like, well, how is
this improvised?

Speaker 2 (57:23):
I don't get this.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
This feels like a pop song.

Speaker 4 (57:26):
If you give me maybe I could try it. If
you want to give me any any the first image
or thought, a thought, or a theme or some anything.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
I don't have to get This is not a party trick.
If you guys want to start something, you.

Speaker 4 (57:38):
Have, but just so you'll you'll get a sense that
that's what happens. Maybe maybe as of you, the other
person in the room. Maybe now it's a four four
member band because you're inspiring the song.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
Okay, what what what kind of notion? What kind of
notion would you like?

Speaker 4 (57:57):
I see that's that's I don't want that. I want
you to feel what you're feeling, or what image came
to you, or what anything, anything at all, to be
a part of it. Let's do it all right, sailboat, Hey,
cast the sail and hope though and blows. Let's get

(58:21):
on your little silver ride the waves. Ride the waves
with me. Mm hmm, cas the sail and hope though
and blows. Let's get on yoll little silboat, ride the waves,

(58:43):
ride the waves with me. Hey, Brucy, don't you want
to go in the sylble that you told me to
sing about?

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Woo yeah wooyah wooiah.

Speaker 4 (58:58):
Don't you want to roll in the sylble that's your
tomato sing about? Ooh yeah, wooiah, Oohiah, here comes the wind.
Let's do it again. How about that?

Speaker 2 (59:13):
That was fantastic? That was great.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
You also saying that you had backup singers that were
also youble.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
That was fantastic.

Speaker 4 (59:24):
It's fun. You see how fun it is.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
I am so in awe of that.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
I cannot tell you.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
That is so completely different than anything I could ever
imagine doing.

Speaker 4 (59:39):
Oh well, well, I'm glad, thank you. I love it,
and I love playing with these guys because they're so
they're geniuses. They make it so much fun, and we
just play off each other in the same way that
you and I just played off of your idea.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
Well, I'm getting a sense of how much they must
love playing with you, because that was fantastic, just amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Thank you all so much.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
What a great thrill to meet all of you and
do this well to re meet you. But it was
really great and great album. I hope everybody listens to it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Just not Taylor Swift right off the top of the charts.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
That'd be all right.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
You don't want to do that. She she, she touches
so many people.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Oh I didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
I don't mean that against.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
At all.

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
Well, my niece is my in particular my niece, just
my niece. My niece got to go for her thirteenth birthday.
It was a big They sent videos and I kind
of got choked up because it was a stadium, and
you know, of all these girls her age just singing
their hearts out, and I thought that's worth something. Yeah,
that's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Thanks so much to Edie Brokel for sharing so much
of her creative process, and also to her band members
c J. Camery and Trevor Hagen for also sharing how
they collaborate with Edie. To hear a playlist of all
of our favorite have You Makeup in Edie Brokel songs,
you can find a playlist at Brokenrecord podcast dot com
or in the episode description. Subscribe to our YouTube channel

(01:01:15):
at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast, where you
can find all of our new episodes. You can follow
us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced
and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric
Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliney. Broken
Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love

(01:01:35):
this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.
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Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts, subscriptions and.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
If you like this show, please remember.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
To share, rate, and review us on your podcast app
Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.