Raphael Saadiq

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. Rafael Sadiq is one of the great R and
B writers and producers of the last thirty years. He
started out writing and playing bass in the group Tony
Tony Tony with his brother Dwayne Wiggins on guitar. The
Tony's had an amazing four album run from eighty eight
through ninety six, with hit singles like It Never Rains

(00:36):
in Southern California, Feels Good, Anniversary, and If I Had
No Loop. Since the group's disbanded, Rafael's released five solo albums,
starting with two thousand and two's Instant Vintage. His most
recent Jimmy Lee, is a collection of very personal songs
about the traumas he and his family experienced growing up
in Oakland, California. But Rafae's also done some amazing work

(00:58):
behind the board. He's produced and written for the likes
of DiAngelo, TLC, Mary J. Blige, Solange, Earthwin and Fire,
and just recently worked in a handful of songs on
Beyonce Cowboy Carter album. That's all in addition to his
work as an Academy Award nominated film composer. It was
a real honor to speak with Rafael Sadik from a

(01:18):
studio on Los Angeles about some of the incredible work
he's done the last handful of years with Beyonce and Solange,
breaking down his collaboration with the'angelo on the classic track Lady,
Plus discussing the underrated influence of sly Stone bassist Larry
Graham on a whole generation of musicians coming up in
the Bay Area. This is Broken Record liner notes for

(01:41):
the digital Age. I'm justin Ritchman. Here's my conversation with
Rafael Sadik. To see the full video version of this episode,
go to YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast Man. Raphael,
thanks so much for having us as your beautiful I mean,
this is one of the I've been to a lot
of studios. This is thank You's one of the best.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
I thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah, this is
where it happens for me.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
You know how long you been here?

Speaker 2 (02:09):
I've been here twenty I think twenty years now, working
out of here, working out here for twenty years.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, wow, So that would have been I guess Ray Ray.
Maybe after Ray Ray you started doing your projects here.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
No, I think I did Ray Ray here, so maybe
as longer?

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Wow? Was it not? Its in vantage though Instant Vintage.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Oh so maybe I didn't. I forget which song which
album came first, now, but I think I did Ray
Ray was second. So I did the last song of
on Instant Vintage. Just there's a hidden track at the
end of every record that I do. Yes, So at
the end of Instant Vintage, they gave me the keys

(02:54):
to the studio and so I came in. I had
an MP sixty and I just dropped the drum machine
on the desk and I wrote the very last song
to Instant Vintage.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Wow. Yeah, I want I want to ask you about that.
How did that tradition start? Because actually I met One
of my favorite cuts of yours is the hidden track
on Stone Rolling.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Is that what Larry Grim?

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, it's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, we did that right here. Let's record it right
where you're sitting, and me and Larry was here right here.
Larry's a you know, I mean, that's my my guy.
I've raised in the same neighborhood in Oakland that he
he lived in. So we met through some people and
I invite him to the studio and say I got

(03:44):
this song, and we just I was it was It
was hard for me to actually work around him to
play bass. It seems like I can't really play bass
when he's around. Really, Yeah, I just I just he's
the only person I'm around that I I like lock
up when he comes around.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Kind of like playing guitar for the Hendrix or something. Yeah,
that level of you know, yeah, Pard, the Magic Hendricks
isn't here, like you know, Larry's still around.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, Larry's around and he's still great.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Did you play bass on that? Was that?

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Oh? No, that's that's Larry.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
That's what I thought. It really has that for that.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Now he's a big boy. He plays big boy bass.
You notice when he's playing the difference between just the years.
You can feel like his his his something in his
fingers is just different.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
He sounded great too. His his oh.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah he met me sound like it was like a
chipmunk when when my voice comes on and then his
voice comes on.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
He just came on. I was like, oh wow, but
it has that age like you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, you can't, you can't. I've been around a couple
of singers and and that's what happened. I've sang around
Charlie Wilson and I was singing his song and he
came in on the other part of it and it
just sounded like apples and oranges.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
What was what was the occasion for that?

Speaker 2 (05:05):
It was it was some awar show and it was
a lot of different artists singing, and Charlie was singing
and we did uh, we did our standing. I think
we did a couple of songs. But he came on
and you could just tell the age, the years that
he put into it. And and Stevie. I've sang around

(05:26):
Stevie before. Then I heard him sing like right after me,
and it.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Just sound like.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
I was like, Wow, it's those pipes, you know, it's
just those years, you know, like that working that muscle. Yeah,
and this is really strong, you know.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
I don't know if you ever get there, by the way,
because you've seen too much shape. Man, you're in too
good a shape.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
No, I think, but I think they're in shape that
I can vocal shape. It's two different types of shapes,
like get lungs. You know, your pipes they can hold
notes longer than anybody. Celo Green is another person who can.
Like I watched him sing Lovely Day one time, and
he's been a lovely dude and he was looking at me.

(06:08):
Was I was in Chicago with House of Blues and
I was right above him and he said, lovely dude,
and he's just looking at me, and it was going
forever and how does he do that? So I just
think that's those those pipes, you know, those age pipes
of you know, working that muscle.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
And se Low too, just from I mean, and Stevie too.
I mean Stevie has, of course something like special Sea
Lo just has just such a just born with some
pipes that are just fascinating, you know, like.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
He's the one of a kind. We always see each
other in Atlanta somewhere and say we're going to work together.
That's one person that do It'll be easy for me
to work with because he's so soulful and I love
soulful music too, So I'm waiting for that matchup. That's
the perfect matchup for me.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
You should definitely do that. He should. You should do
a full Larry project too, man.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, that would be that would be cool. I mean,
we I used to. I used to when those records
used to come out in my neighborhood, it would be
a line in front of the store to buy Grand
Central Station's Records. It was because he was more like
a superhero to most in Oakland. I don't know about
everywhere else, but you know, I would see people lining

(07:26):
up at this store called records were called House of Music,
was one of the Tony's records. House of Music. I
titled the album House and Music because of that store.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
But I was just closed that long ago.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, right now, I was. I was too young to
go in that store at the beginning, because you know,
they had all these black posters, you know, the black
Swede posters, black Pussy Pussy and since you knowwhere since
you know, when you go in the store and you're
like eight years old, you're like, oh wow. But then
you see like you know, James Brown soundtracks, Black Caesars,

(08:00):
Black Caesar you know. So yeah, but Larry, it was
definitely a line. So when now when I'm working or
something and I'm talking to somebody, rest in peace, John John.
He was always talking about John Singleton about comic books,

(08:21):
and so I was never privy to be in those
conversations about comic books because I wasn't into comic books.
My comic books was Larry Graham gram Station in Parliament,
funklic records album covers, Pedro Bell did all that, or
that's ridiculous, that's an interesting like.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
I wonder because Larry Graham I spent some time living
in Oakland, and so I happen to know how much
love the Bay has for Larry. It does feel like
maybe elsewhere Bootsy is kind of the one that.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Larry's Larry's Larry Steph Curry in Oakland.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yes, yes, that's a great that's a great comparison. He
really is, he really is. Was that was he your
inspiration to pick up the bass?

Speaker 2 (09:05):
My inspiration to pick up the base came from my neighborhood.
It was so many bass players and guitar players, and uh,
he was the biggest influence once I picked it up
because he did things that nobody was doing. And so
you if you couldn't do what he was doing, you

(09:26):
couldn't really walk into like a jam session and jump
on the drums because the drummer was gonna challenge you,
you know, see, like you know, you know how to
play u pile, and if you didn't know how to
play pile, then you couldn't be in the room. So
he was the bar. He's always the bar. Another guy
in Oakland on to play for the Hawkins family. He

(09:47):
walked to Hawkins and Edwin Hawkins and Daniel Daniel Hawkins,
Leannette Hawkins, Tremaine Hawkins. But the guy's Joel Joel Smith.
He was the other uh, Steph Steph Curry in Oakland.
I have a huge piece of arder that had somebody

(10:09):
in there with the base I.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Was one of I was like, is that Stanley like
a young Stanley Cark with the bass?

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Joel Smith, He's amazed. He's an amazing drummer. He was
an He was an amazing drummer and an amazing bass player.
I looked up to him more than anybody.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
That's interesting because I almost was gonnask you too for
those Rusty Allen because it kind of Mae was like
he always got the hat on, but it kind of
looked like him.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
But it's not Rusty. But Rusty is the beast. Rusty
should get way more props than he does.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, because those those slide records, if he played on
I'm still studying those records. Matter of fact, I just
called somebody to try and find Rusty's phone number, really,
so I could just just want to hang out with him.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
I think I have his email really yeah, okay, I'm
pretty sure, Okay, yeah, yeah, he's those I don't want,
like I almost feel like, you know, and I love
Larry and I love Grand Central Station. I love but
some of those Sly records got even better once like.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
He did, he did kill it. I mean, I never
want to say that, that's like sack religious for me
to say anything about Larry, but I have to say
that fresh record well, do work well and then't even
like if you listen to him play with Bobby Warmack
Womat Yeah right, Rusty's like his his his choice selection

(11:25):
on Bassis. Yeah, it's crazy Bassis. It's a crazy instrument. Man.
You can, you know, fill up church and like a
lot of those Downy Hathaway records, you know, the basses.
It's a lot to know, a lot to learn. I
love bass a lot, you know, so I'm always listening

(11:46):
to music in my car and just so amazed on
how many great bass players they really are.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
There's there's there's some great ones. Manino another who.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Worked with a lot. Yeah, Pino comes by some time
and we just have a bass off. One time we
made a bass record. It was just me and him.
We just it was no other instruments, but bass I
don't know where to at.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Y'all didn't put that out though, did you.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
No? He just you know, just pops in sometimes. Well
he's not traveling with some big rock banders.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah, with the Who or whatever the whole He's like, I.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Gotta learn seventy eight songs in two hours for the
Who tour.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
I'm like, damn, do you ever want to do anything
like that? Like, dude, like a tour with somebody, like
a side man for just like a year.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
I'd rather be a side man, really, trust me. If
the Stones would have called me, like fifteen years ago,
before the Base money happened for Darryl, Darryl may be gone.
I wouldn't even did my second album for real. I'll
be out what mom, bust, mom, Jet, come out. It's done.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Someone's gotta hit you up.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
No, it's adventure just happened, and it's done out of
solo stuff. I've never done it. I've been gone.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
It's so funny, dude. By speaking of which, you performed
with Mick at the on the Grammys in twenty eleven
day and that's the best of her mixed sound outside
of the Stones really wow, the like the way y'all
did that Solomon Burke song.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, Yeah, he's an amazing dude, like he. I mean,
he's just came in and I wasn't supposed to play,
you know, because you you you to play on the Grammys,
you have to be nominated to even to play, even
to assist another person. That's sort of the rules, I
guess some bullshit rules whatever whatever. But Mick called me

(13:25):
and said, I want you to play with me, and
you know that's the Grammys. So we never really told
the Grammys. We just he met. Somebody may have told
him maybe a few days before they found out. Well
what can they say. They can't say nothing that, you know,
make play stadiums. He don't need to play the Grammys.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
No one. Yeah. So did you know him like that
or was it no?

Speaker 2 (13:50):
No, he just I think he heard Stone rolling the
album Don was is really good in front of his
and I think that's how the affiliation happened. But it
was right, I mean, it was it was fun. I
mean I had a lot of questions for him, you know.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
Did you ask him?

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, of course, Yeah, we talked about you know, hollow
Wolf and we just talked about those Chess records days
and you know, I'm a huge Hollandwool fan, and so
he told me about all kind of stuff. He pulled
out his harbor. We played blues the the rehearsals. We
we had more fun at the rehearsals, like for four

(14:28):
or five days than we did playing you know, at
the Grammys. But it was it was really cool. He
was really cool.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
It showed up on the Grammys though, Man, it was
like it really did. It really did. Man.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
The band I had, the guys had like those guys
are who was in the back, that's who I think,
Calvin Turner, Josh on bas Josh Smith is the blues
guitar man himself, Lamark Lamar Carter on drums, and I
had Rob Bacon on guitar, which is a Detroit boy
who's a blues guy, fun guy. I think I had

(15:04):
four horn players. I think maybe a Berry trumpet, sacks bone.
I had bj singing background, Erica Jerry singing, Charles play keys.
But dude, did that band that was probably my best man.

(15:25):
That was my best man. They fire, yeah, so you know,
they all big. You know, Mick fans. So I think
they played better for make than they play for me.
I was looking back sometime.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
The hag Oh, it's so funny man, and you got
some yeah those guys do. Lamar you mentioned he was
on the Stone Rolling album. He was some of those
drum sounds, y'all.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
He was on the record. Calvin played on the record
and basically actually on the picture too. It's me, Calvin
and Lamar and the pictures. No, not the one in
the front, but there's a picture in the back that
that plays to the back that we took this little picture.
It's not highly publicized, but yeah, we did that. They

(16:06):
played on a song called Moving down the Line. Yeah,
but most of the record was played by me on drums.
Really yeah, I played drums on most of all the
way I see it, wow, and most of Stone Rolling.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
So when did you because you know, it's funny like
I always think of you more as like a bass player.
It seems like you've become more of a guitar player
maybe over the years, but drums too, Like when did that?
When did that happen?

Speaker 2 (16:36):
I think I picked up the drums the same time
I picked up the bass. But I'm not a great
drummer or nothing like that. I can, I can. I
can put together beat in the record, but you wouldn't
want me in your band. But in the studio, yeah,
you want me in the studio because I played these
beats that are like the fit of a vibe of
what I'm doing, and sometimes it shifts, it gets a

(16:58):
little off, and so it's sort of like that on
the record. So Lamar when he plays my records over,
he plays the mistakes I make and I'm like, just
play it like you played.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
But he likes it.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
He's being funny. He's I'm like, bro, come on.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Bro, that's funny speaking of that little like vibe. I
was thinking about it, and you know, saying about the
D'Angelo records and Brown Sugar. You know, I've heard quests
Love say that. May like maybe y'all asked him to
play in the first record or something and he wasn't
feeling it, or maybe he like, I don't know, maybe

(17:40):
he'd heard about it. It was just kind of a little
dismissive because he wasn't there with R and B. But
then he heard the album and loved like the drum
sound and like just the groove y'all locked into and
I feel like that groove a little later kind of
got associated with Dyla who who's a genius of course
as well, but but that kind of was like, y'all's

(18:01):
not going to say, like not that it's a competition,
but kind of early on, I was kind of y'all's.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
I think we me and me and danceel Will have
the same background in gospel, which is the Hawkins family.
We both grew up listening to Walter Ed, Danielle and Joe,
and we didn't know that when we first got together,
but we figured it out.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
It's kind of random. I mean, you were in the Bay.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
I was in the Bay. He was in Virginia. You
know that music sort of was all around the world,
Like really Andre Crouch was more of the bigger pop gospel,
but the Hawkins family was the more great you know,
but that was that. So it's somehow it got to

(18:49):
Virginia and they got in his house. His dad's a
great piano player, Dancel's dad, so it just it just
sort of happened. We got in the studio, we was
making music and.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
We were how did y'all even meet?

Speaker 2 (19:02):
We met through We met through an an r from
a publishing company. We were signed to the same publishing company,
so somebody introduced us. And the first time we met,
Dean was supposed to come to my house and he
didn't show up the first day and then but he

(19:23):
came the next day. But I think he thought, you know,
he was gonna come to a house and it was
gonna look like the the rich and famous, probably with
the spiral stairs and helpers everybody in the house, and
it's like.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
I'm going to yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
But but he thought to me, a lot of people.
He don't really like a lot of people, you know,
And then he found out I don't either. So when
he got to my my little two bathroom, you know,
two hundred and thirty five thousand dollars crib what you know?
In my it was in the garage. It was me
and him and my engineer. It's Sacramento, sac Yeah, And

(19:59):
I was in this neighborhood full of like lobbies and politicians, right,
and we were just and he's just he was just
so surpris she didn't tell me. Later, I thought this
house was gonna be crowded a lot of people, and
it wasn't. And so I started playing uh, lady. That's

(20:20):
the first thing we worked on, was lady. Yeah, I
have the idea because it was supposed to be for
Tony's record, the idea, but of music. Maybe I didn't
like it. They didn't. They didn't like the initial idea.
They never heard it what it was going to be.
Neither did I. But I played the guitar riffs for

(20:43):
D'Angelo and he said, he said, I like it. I said, cool.
So I was gonna call somebody over to play my
guitar parts over. He said, no, you usuld leave what
you did. And that's the first time my guitar playing
playing ever got on the record. Wow, they ever got
on the record. Yeah. So, but I think how we

(21:05):
came up with that, we figured it out we were
we were playing. We were playing, and we were playing
behind the beat, but I think we were just really
trying to lock lock something in and so he would
fall back and he would start laughing. Then I would
fall back and we started kind of smiling laughing, and
it became we just kept going back and forth but

(21:26):
not talking about it, and it became sort of the
style of his record. But that's the way he sing sings,
that's the way he plays wow, and it was just
natural for him. But he's a Dela fan. Yeah, and
so then you know I'm a Dela fan too, So
I figured it out later. We were just mocking Dila.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Really that that early on.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
I think Deyla was the first one. Okay, are we
just are we heard it through hip hop?

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah? Right?

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Maybe just maybe we heard it on some on some
on some Wool Tang records. Maybe we heard it on
some Tribe records. We just love I love hip hop, right,
so I think both our love for the Hawks and
gospel and hip hop up and rock and songwriting, It's
just it was just a perfect storm at the right time.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
The way you explain that is kind of It's perfect
that y'all met, because it really is the right combo
of of everything. I mean.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
I just talked to him yesterday and we don't talk much,
you know what I mean, And it's hard to catch
either one of us, but yesterday we caught up and
was like, y'all get picked up. I picked up saying
I didn't expect you to pick up, but I was
going to leave you a message about about your feel
on kids because now I'm practicing keys like, you know,

(22:43):
piano a lot, and since I've been studying it, I
always knew what he knew on piano, but now it's
it's really uh, I really know, like his his touch,
his approach the piano was different from most gospel piano
players because these sort of graduated from church. He didn't,
He didn't make records and get locked into like playing

(23:04):
a whole bunch of courts like like church guys do.
He's like really figured out his place with songwriting and
his touch and his field, and it's different. And that's
why I called him. We were just laughing about that.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
Because did you send them some stuff or like, no,
he heard.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Stuff that I got and he you know, we we
always go back and forth. But he he got some
records he that he's excited about, and you know, we
always just no, no, no, he was here. He came
here one day. We played, he played the Hollywood Bowl
and I play guitar with him, and he came here
afterwards and we just you know, we just pressed play

(23:45):
and play records. And and he's playing guitar now and
he's playing bass, and he's he's funky's right now.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
I like seeing him play guitar on that.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Q tips is q tips is getting good on bass.
He's getting good on bass. Shat Heat is really good
on bass. Ship you know Ship. Yeah, Adrian Young is
getting good on bass. All my friends that didn't play,
they all pretty good.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Now did Adrian never play? He played?

Speaker 2 (24:17):
But now I heard him play like maybe two weeks
ago on the record. I was like, man, who's playing
on the record? I said, wow, I said you. I
said you was playing, you know, maybe two years ago,
but now I wouldn't have known that was you.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
So you know, I love to see people putting in
the work.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
That's a huge compliment from you.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
They putting in the work.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
That's wild. We'll be right back with more from roe
Field after this break. We're back with Roe Fel. You know,
it's funny you mentioned that you brought lady to the
Tonies and kind of I was curious about yours when
you kind of left the Tonies your switched the guitar,

(25:02):
Like how your brother Dwayne felt about that because he
was kind of the guitar, Like was there like a
little friction with that or like no, no, you look
at you like like you know you're playing with MC
Jagger on the tour, make Jagger at the Grams like,
come on.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Dog, Actually, I wouldn't even know. I wouldn't even know.
But when you're gonna be a front man, I like
front man's that play guitars, not bass. I mean, I
love like Larry that plays bass. But it's hard to
play bass and sing Bootsy level forty two.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yeah, like Rush guy.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, but you gotta really be I've played bass on
one tour as a front, as a singing in the front.
It's it's not easy. It's fun, but it's not easy.
I'd rather I want somebody to dig in the bass
when I'm singing. Yeah, right, so I have to have
the guy that relieves me on Bay. It's gotta be
like that dude.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
You know, how did you pick the dude for the
recent Tony's tour?

Speaker 2 (26:03):
How did I I seen him play? I think I
found him on Instagram. I've seen him play Gosh Wow, yeah, Josh.
He's a bad boy too, and he used to play
with MPG. But I didn't know that at the time.
You just found him and I found him at the time,
and I knew he was solid. You know, you just
need somebody solid. They they got some they got they

(26:26):
got chopped, but they also know how to play, you know,
be solid.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
You know, did you consider doing the tour like based
on the tour or nah?

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Oh no, I never even because I've never played bassed
on the Tonys tour. Never. I've never even played guitar
mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
But you're on the records.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
I played all the records. Yeah, yeah, how.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Can you and you just the same reason you didn't
want you wanted to be because you're you're you're leading.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, I didn't think I could do it, honestly, to
be honest, I didn't think I could do it. I
didn't think that. You know, syllables and rhythms. You know,
sometimes when you sing a word in the syllole, sometimes
your fingers.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Go with it.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, so you have to separate like a drummer. You
have to separate that pop tat. I could do it.
I've done it. I've done a tour with me Rob Bacon.
Rob was on guitars and bass, forgot the drummer and
Kelvin Wooden play keys, and it was fun. It was,

(27:24):
you know, less people, more money for me, right, Yeah,
it was fun.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
One less player. You gotta that was fun. How do
you separate? I mean, you've, like, man, you've been on
a hell of a run lately with with composing and
writing and producing these days, Like how are you spending
your time like musically, like are you are you? Are
you writing a lot for your Like.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
I spent my time right there on that piano, this piano. Yeah,
I spent most of my time on the piano. I
haven't recorded anything, and maybe maybe it's close to six
months because I just spent you know, I just I said,
I just want to practice and just play and not
just loop everything, because you know, when you're recording now

(28:11):
you're able to you just loop everything and you never
get any practice time on any instrument. So I'm just
doing a lot of listening to you know, a lot
of Donnie, a lot of earth Wind, a lot of
going to shows I just wanted, you know, concerts, and
figuring out when I'm a tour again in twenty five,

(28:34):
and and just figuring out a lot of keyboard stuff,
listen to songs that I really love and learning how
to play them and just knowing, you know, learning what
I'm playing. You know, I'm taking piano lessons. I take
piano lessons three days a week. Wow, I don't take
classical pianos. I haven't played no one full classical piece yet.

(28:55):
But because I'm I'm just starting from the very reading everything. Yeah.
So I played first bone in school. I played trombone
in high screen. We was cheating in school, That's why
we was writing down the positions, you know, fun too
for we knew, you know, I could read bass cleft
pretty good then, but you know you don't. You don't

(29:18):
use it, you lose it. Yeah, so it's from the beginning.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Now, Wow, what what what made you want to like
woodshed right now? Like? What was the impetus for that?
Like was like a moment where you're like, oh, man.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Like I got bored. I mean I just I love
I love piano, I love chlores, I love voice sings,
and I just want I wouldn't have so much artillery
to write to grab from. Like I can hear everything,
I can hear it, but I just want to be
able to go to it in like two seconds. So

(29:48):
my nephew, he plays piano, Dylan, and he's from another
another world. Yeah, he can. He could pick up anything
and learn anything, and not just I always tell him
to not don't stop, because he's doing pretty good. He's
he's done a lot of records, he worked with a

(30:09):
lot of people. And because he's so talented that you know,
you could you could stop playing your main instrument. His
main instrument is piano, but he plays guitar, drums, his
his little brother Jaden, he plays bass. He's funky as hell.
He he's been playing like Larry Grahams song since he
was like nine years old. What and talking like Larry,

(30:29):
acting like them. The whole thing is yeah, the whole thing.
So you know, when you're in the industry, you just
don't want to fall off the instrument that you love.
And so I always tell him, like, are you practicing?
You know, are you practicing? Don't don't stop because you
got a record out with this person. This person keep playing.
So I took some of my own advice and jumped

(30:53):
on the piano. Looked on Google. Found this. This piano teacher,
Kristen is the Tahanga pianos. I found it. I thought
she was in Tahunga to Pega Canyon Pianos and she
was actually in Seattle. So I like, have a screen here,

(31:13):
I mean a camera here, a camera here, camera here
on my upright piano in the back.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
Okay, you're zooming on that.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
I'm zooming yeah, and it's it's it's been really cool.
So I haven't written any music, but when I started
writing music, I think it's gonna be a little different.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
You have a whole new like bag to pull from.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah. Sure, yeah, Because now I'm playing like stylistic songs.
I'm going over all the songs that I used to
play some of the best writers or you know, piano players.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah, so what do you like? What are the one
what are the songs that stand out for you as well?
The songs that you love growing up that that that
are also like incredible piano songs.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
It's gonna sound redundant, but that's why I started listening
to the Hawkins family because I felt like all those records,
if I learned those records just almost everything I wanted
to know. But then I would say, like, you know,
Tom Bell and the Creed, you know very good piano songs,
and it falls riding place with all like the Spinners
and the Dell Phonix, the STYLEX, all those people, and

(32:16):
then Earth Wind and Fire. I was definitely all over
the Gratitude albums, the live album.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
Did you ever see them in the day.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
I didn't see the Gratitude tour, no, okay, but I
saw Funk on the Ground. I saw Parliament. I saw
Bernie Burrell play live. I saw Tower Power live. I
saw Bob Marley and the Whalers, the Berkeley Greek.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
I don't think i've met anybody that's aw's. I met
one person one time that had tickets and they didn't
go for some reason. I was like, I did have tickets.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
I was just on a bike, riding a bike from
East Oakland just to to Berkeley, just being some bad
kids is riding so far from home, and we were
just riding around and I heard this reggae music and
my friends kept going on the and I stopped and
I'm looking through the fence and I'm like, what is that?

(33:13):
And I could see Bob Marley and and I just
stayed there. I never left.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Did you know Bob Marley at the time, I.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Know who he was. I didn't know much about it.
I knew who he was, but I didn't leave. I
just stayed there by the fence. I watched the defence.
That's that's incredible. Yeah, so I'm I'm a huge whalers,
you know. I mean the base plan from Family Man
is the naughtiest.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
I like rhythm sections like brothers. Like the rhythm section
with him and the Family Man and his brother on drums,
it's the tightest drum section. I would say, I would
put them neck in neck with with the James Brown
rhythm section. Wow, it's different, but it's tight.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
That's the hell. That's a hell of a that's a
hell of a I know, I'm gonna have to go
back and listen for that specific Oh.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Man, it's it's it's just crazy that and then I'll
go to Verdein and Freddy. Yeah, you know those those
are my rhythm sections, the Bob rhythm section, earth Wind
and Fire rhythm section, and James and of course James jameson.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
James Yeah, right Motown in Motown. Yeah, you worked with
earth Wind and Fire and with like when Maurice was
still I did.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
I had a chance to work with Maurice and talked
to Maurice White a lot.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
What was that like, because he's scary.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Man. That was scary working with Maurice. I mean they
all walked in the room, three of them, Philip Philip Philip,
Philip Bailey, Maurice White, and Ralph Johnson. Yeah, they walked
in the room and I was super nervous. But they're
really nice and there's so much history. You could feel

(34:57):
the history when they walk in the room. You could
just feel that like like we just we bad were
bad boys, like we bring it. Yeah, you know he
was a band leader. You know, he was a band
leader guy.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
And then yeah, what was the dynamic? How was how
was Maurice's dynamic in the room with.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
He produced me? He produced me the producer.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
Like when I was singing, I was singing a falsetto
part and show me the way, and he told me
to tell en and just kick the reverb a little
bit higher. It's producing tip, damn. Yeah, from the best.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Definitely from the best, especially for the like if it's
a producing tip on a on a falset vocal. Yeah,
come on, you know that solid advice? Did did you?
Did you? Didn't? You didn't play? Did you? You never
played live with them? Did you?

Speaker 2 (35:54):
I've never played live with with Earth the Fire, no doubt.
I mean I would still love to do that now,
but I mean it's still need Vernein is playing you. Yeah,
you can't. I mean that's the that's the back bone
earth on guitar though, you know, if you're not moving. Nah,
they just let me clap my hand. Maybe I could
sing a part with Philip, but I'm definitely not. Then

(36:15):
jump on a guitar, bass man, maybe a sound check, soundcheck,
a couple of sound checks. I would like to play
with with Earth Wind and Fire. And I got a
chance to play with now Rogers and chic Wow for
something at Apple. When was that maybe a year ago,

(36:37):
a year something for something for some type of new
headsphones or something. You know. I was like, oh yeah,
I'm definitely doing that. But it wasn't a live audience.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
I was it though.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
It was amazing because you know, but that words is right.
This is my guy too. Yes, she dressed liked him.
I did the whole thing. I had school boy glasses
on the tweet jagged. I did the whole thing. Now
I was looking at looking at me and saying, wow, man,
this dude went all the way in and I'm like,
of course, of course I did.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
Damn that must have been Bernard Edwards. Is ridiculous. Yeah,
of all the base places we talked about today, I
feel like he might be the most underappreciated.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
You know, yeah, he's he's he's celebrated, though people do
celebrate Bernard. I feel I even feel like Queen that
I took a piece of another one by the dust
is from good times.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Boom boom another one. Boom boom, don't don't that was smart.
That's a nice bite. That's a nice.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Little give me, can't be mad?

Speaker 2 (37:48):
I love. I was like, oh, that's a nice bike.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, it stands out in the catalog though, it was like,
that's a that's it. How was tell me about the
Beyonce sessions, man, or how the work on that came
to be? Because I was you know, the singles were
were great, sixteen Carriages to my favorite of the early singles,

(38:11):
and I know you worked on both of those. But
then when the album came out, I was kind of
an American Uh uh what was the top? What's what's
the topic? American Requiem came on, I was like, yeah,
I gotta really listen because.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Well, they did a great job of like having the
right people in the room. You know. I always tell
people about Beyonce's uh her ear and her like. You know,
decision making is the most important thing you could be
as an artist. Somebody that tours, somebody that makes records,

(38:49):
somebody who knows their audience. So if you know your audience,
it's easy to have musicians in the room that you
think can push forward what you're trying to do. And
so for for me, you know, Dream was in the room,
a lot of great musicians. So we took songs and

(39:09):
I changed some songs around, you know, but then it
was great things on the record already, So I just
had a great It was almost like it was almost
like the all star team, you know, with people that
I didn't know, like the the banjo playing, you know,
with you know, yeah, random Giddings, Rani Guinness, who like

(39:30):
that record wouldn't be that record without her doing that.
That is amazing, right, So I think that's I just
I just think they a and already great. They had
a great team, They had great people.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
Was that banjo part on there? But when you first
heard the song no.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
No, but she knew like she wanted to have it
on the record, and you always want to always I
love working with people who know what they want. It
makes producing fun, you know, are being a part of
something fun.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
What was the what was the ask of you? Like?
What was like? What what did you feel like you were?
Why was Yeah? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (40:07):
I think I was in the room because is I
I take I'm coachable and I take instructions and I
can I can do what you ask me to do.
And I actually love what I do. And I love
actually knowing that somebody is gonna you dish them a dime,

(40:30):
they about to go dunk it. That's my inspiration for me.
I think they know, like you know, I could be
in a room and work with people, and it's it's
more about the camaraderie of working with others, you know,
and not being like I'm a producer instead of like no,
we're in a room, like we have instruments and we

(40:51):
it's time to get it done.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
And I think that's why I was in the room
because I can play in many genres.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
But you also played a lot of parts. So it's
like when you win there with your set, like you're
like musician, had on or producer like the dreams already,
like how do you how do you balance that? So
many people?

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Man, I'm only well, sometimes I'm in the room by myself,
and some of the stuff I did here.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
Like they like this, sent you stuff and whole sending
stuff too.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
That was already like Bodyguard was pretty much a a
song that I did you know that you wrote that,
wrote that alone?

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Because you do that, you're doing the count off Bodyguard.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Yeah, she kept the counting. Yeah, but I wasn't even
going to like play that song. I was going through
another song and she heard it and she said, what's that?
She got a air like that, And that's why I said,
not many artists could take a song like Bodyguard and
say I like this song and I want to make
a record. They wrote some different change some lyrics and

(41:51):
did different things. But it's only maybe two people I
know that takes some of the stuff that nobody would
take from me. That's that's Beyonce now in D'Angelo wow and.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
Solange and right yeah, right, so lunch too.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Right, that'll take some like I wouldn't even play some
things for people because I know they might be like, oh,
that's just way too like you know, but you could,
you know, the great ones, the great ones want to
they want to dive in.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
Yeah, we'll be right back with more from Rafael Saidik
after the break. Here's the rest of my conversation with
Rafael Sadik. He told me the story of Cranes in
the Sky.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Crans in the Sky was already eight years old. The
music was and I was really singing something in mine
it's what you do, it's a certain thing. Oh, that's
what I was doing, something crazy like that. And when
I mess the lunge. We were both doing these sixties
records at first, and then we were gonna hook up,

(42:58):
and I wanted her to write for me, with me,
for that song, for me, for me, for your album. Right,
So she had a copy of it, but I think
it had my vocal on it. But then she wrote
something for herself and it was years later, maybe a
few years later, but it was already eight years old,

(43:19):
and I didn't have a copy of it. I didn't
have a clean copy.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
You gave her the actual like.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
We never had a copy. Wow. So when she was
calling me asking me for a clean version with no lyrics,
I didn't have it. So a good friend of my, Conrad,
who lived up in Portland, as a videographer and he
sometimes takes my songs and and sort of makes short films,
and so I was talking to him about about he said,

(43:55):
you know, I have a copy of it on a
CD on a disc. So that's the only thing we had, because.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
You would have sent it to him just to that.
Was it just so we could make a of a
film with it, or I like a little.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
Short film shooting some friends and like, you know, just
some stuff on the street.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
How the hell did he get on that list?

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Conrad Montgomery, he's a he's a track and field coach.
He's a theod friend of our rogers and he we
run together. We run together. He taught me really how
to how to run. He's a track and field guy,
and he had it. And I said, the only only
one I have is it's on It's on a disc,

(44:41):
and so we that record is nothing separated. That's the
record that came out.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
Wow, So you ripped it from that.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
She's just saying over the just put that in pro
tools and sing over over top on the top of it. Wow. Yeah,
that's that's that's wild. So when it works, it works.
Sometimes you don't even I mean we I think they
compressed it and mixed it that way, like with compression
and make it, you know, but pretty much it was
you know, the bass was there, the drums was already there.

(45:14):
Melotron is is that melotron right there?

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (45:18):
And this is it has worked so it kind of
cracks and does some weird shit. So no melotron sounds
like that melotron because of that. So I never get
it fixed because of that. And but it was all
on that record. It was not anything recorded. The only
thing that that was recorded over was my nephew Dylan

(45:39):
played He played another he played an acoustic h an
upright piano or he played a grand py on top
of it. Didn't Cilancha added some like crazy like bail
was just like boom she added that. But everything else
was pretty much already multi tracked and could we couldn't
separate anything.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
Did she record that here with you or did she
do it on her on her own?

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Did she? I think she recorded creams here? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, that's that's wild. That that's the origins man, you
know what I mean, Like that's a that's a that's
a Grammy winning project man, that you just was like
discarded with some track co. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
You just have to make music, and to make music
because I don't make music to to give to one,
to give to anyone I give. I make music to
sort of entertain myself because I love music that much
that I just want to hear it if I come
and if I come in the studio, I want to
hear music. Sometimes I come to the studio and I
don't even I don't even play any music. I just

(46:46):
I might play Madden or something like the Arcade, the
old one, like when Tom went like McNab was the quarterback.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Okay, all right, going back, Yeah so you played with Okay, yeah, McNab.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
I play McNabb and then taroll Owens is the receiver.
He catches everything right out there.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
You don't play you don't play with with with the Raiders.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Every blue Moon I played with the Raiders. The Raiders
wasn't that good that year, Okay, But sometimes, you know,
sometimes I play with the Reds.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
I am.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
I am definitely a Raiders fan. I'm a Raiders fan. No, no,
don't get it twisted. But I just if I'm playing
an arcade, I don't do it.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Okay, all right, you gotta go with the Eagles on
that I got.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
I gotta go with the Eagles. Or I have to
go with the best defense on that game. I would
say somebody like Rick Ross will probably say, no, that's
not true because I already's really good on the arcade.
I would say Green Bay. I like to play with
Green Bay Kansas City because they had Priest Holmes as
a running back at the time. So I just like

(47:46):
to play with the players to do special things.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
You know, I didn't know you're a video game guy.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Yeah, yeah, I have a video game.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
You do.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah, we may games. It's called Illphonic Wow, Illphonic with
the Friday the thirteen Friday, thirteenth State Ghostbusters. So my
engineer who recorded the Way I See It and and
Jimmie Lee he mixed it, and Storm Rolling. His name

(48:17):
is Chuck Brungard. So we started a video game company
almost twelve thirteen years ago because we were in the business.
We were just we were trying to like make records,
and we couldn't fit the system of you know, we
work on the record, they'd have somebody else mix it,
and it was just getting kind of weird. So I

(48:38):
came up with this idea to start a video game
company because it was a joke about it. What's the
death Jam game.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
It's a death jam game.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
It's a fight game.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
It was The Rush, The Rush anyway, a friend worked
for the Coming. It was all these rappers and it
was a fight game. And I was like, I'm like,
you gotta build me in the game. And my friends like,
we don't put R and B people in the game.
And I'm like, I'm like, I'm gonna make my own game.
And I'm called the Ghetto Golf and and we just laugh.
And so when she left, my partner Chuck goes, you know,

(49:14):
if you really want to start a game company, you know,
that's what I do for I went to school for programming.
I'm saying, let's do it. Let's call it ill Phonic
because ill Matic is my favorite hip hop album, one
of them. So I called it ill Phonic. And then
maybe like the next month, we had like this test
game of Ghetto Golf. And from there we started taking

(49:35):
the publishers for about a year or two, and the
next thing we were you know, I was at all
the conference game conferences and I just kept put on
the law because I felt like gamers don't really care
about musicians having you know, having a game company. It's
about the gamer. It's about you know, the game playoff.

(49:57):
It's about them, it's not about me, it's not about Chuck.
And so then we kept going. Then we moved the
company to Denver, Colorado, and now it's in Colorado and
it's in Tacoma. Wow, it's still it's active, active right now?

Speaker 1 (50:13):
What are you games you're developing?

Speaker 2 (50:17):
Wow? I always always blow this title, and they will
kill me if I say this. I'm just not going
to say it because one time I spoke on the
game and I wasn't supposed to and it was like
I just blew up the world or something.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
We don't we don't, don't got to go there. There.
Should revive the death Jam game. That sounds incredible.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Yeah, it was a good games in it. Yeah, yeah, runs.
I don't know, I can't think of the name of
the game. But I love games. But I played more
sports games than I do first person shooter games, which
I really want to start playing more first person shooter games.
I just you just got to put a lot of

(50:59):
time into that, you know, like learning, I'm still like
Call of Duty, I'm still getting blown up on the
first stage. I'm like, you gotta keep keep going. I
can't follow the I can't look at it. I can't
look at it and follow it. Yeah, so I think
I should just get better on piano instead of.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
That's the better That's a better move man.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
That's what I'm gonna do.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
That's about the time I got out of GANS. I
was like, well, I gotta spend like you know, I
got to train for the game. I'm like, man, I
can't really be involved with this.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
I can't catch any passes on like Madden the New
Like it's just it's like just it just bounce off
my fingers. I'm like, is there a button? I'm always
asking kids, is there a button that the fingers do
like this to catch the ball because I can't. I
could do a short pass or screen, but if I'm
going for a bomb, it's like.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
You gotta go to training camp, man. Yeah, it's too
much time.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
That's too much time.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
You know. I want to ask you. Speaking of you
brought up Omadic made me think of the Chronic because
I always think of those two albums in my mind
for some reason, different years, but just incredible debut rap albums. Right,
but Chronic two still still d r E still and
you did still Ray right, Yeah, on inadvantage. It feels

(52:09):
like a speaking of like a.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Good that was a great bike. Yeah, of course. I
mean I'm a huge Dre fan. You know. His name
is Dre, Mine is Ray, And I was like, hmm,
you know, Dre always have those lyrics and this is
the motherfucking thinks I get. I kind of feel like
Dre's sometimes so that's how you No, not really, but
I love that lyric and some motherfucking thinks I get.

(52:32):
But when that blink flink clink clink clink, I was like,
let's turn that into like a lotaby, like a pretty song.
That the hardest song that everybody's boo boom boom. I'm like,
let's turn that to sink. I'm coming bump too, you
you know. I'm like, let's flip it, let's put it

(52:54):
on his head and let's change it. I'm coming bump
to you wear something see through you know. Just happened
just really fast. Yeah, but that was definitely inspired by Did.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
You hear from Dre on that?

Speaker 2 (53:12):
Nah?

Speaker 1 (53:12):
I bet he appreciates it though.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Oh no, definitely definitely got to Like, you know, Dre
is a music guy, you know.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
And you'll both both worked with Don Robinson.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
We both did Yeah, Vogue, we both did Yeah. We
both have stories. Okay working with good stories good stories.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Can you share what you can? It's the one you can.
Did you know in Vogue from Oakland?

Speaker 2 (53:37):
I did?

Speaker 1 (53:38):
They are I feel like.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
I mean beautiful, some of the nicest people, and we
sort of came from the same camp with Denzel Foster
and Tommy Tommy Thomas McElroy.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
Which did they did I got five on it?

Speaker 2 (53:54):
They did, I got five on it. They did lean
on me with Club Club Nouveau, they did, I mean
situation situation number nine for Club Nouveau and that's just
five on it. But they did Engine number nine. They

(54:15):
just uh they and they signed us. Came the Tony's
went through tough enough production, they found us, they signed us.
I didn't know that they're responsible for they had the
reason why I'm sitting here talking to you.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
Yeah, I still talk to him. I mean I talked
to him pretty much, you know, a couple of times
a month. You know, Denny. Denny's a golfer. He plays golf,
so he tries to get me out there and playing golf.
I'm not good, but I'm trying, and Tommy is just uh, Tommy.
Tommy started, he started fighting. He became a fighter. He

(54:49):
always had he was always a martial arts guy, and
then I think he became what he called he was
a martial arts fighter.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
He was fighting.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Yeah, he started doing that. He said, he got hit
really hard and he stopped.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
That's a good reason to stop. That's why I never
started with that.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
And yeah and yeah, but those guys I'm really responsible for,
you know. So that's how your career, that's how we
got to Mercury. Wow, that's how we got there. To
those guys, and I'm I'm lucky to have them in
my in my you know, my career, because I learned
a lot. But just by listening to them.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
That's amazing. Man. How how was the tour with the Tony's.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
The tour, but the Tonys was amazing. It was definitely
a bucket list. We you know, we took the phones.
I took the phones.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
You took the phones away from from the audience.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
And because I wanted the audience to have a good
time the way that I've seen like the old Jays.
I didn't have a phone when I was a kid,
and That's where I learned. I feel like not having
a phone, and you know, and you're actually sitting with
your friend or your mate and you you're singing, they're
dancing with each other, and you know, you're giving people

(56:08):
a moment of freedom that they don't that they don't
they don't know that they actually lost you know, nobody knows,
you know, were attached to our phones.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
No one remembers life before a phone man.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
Yeah, you know, And you're not actually doing anything with
the videos anyway, Like you just want to show your
friends that you were at the show. But it's better
that you watched the show and it's entirety like black,
we rehearsed, you know. So it was. It was. It
was amazing. Though the songs are fun as single. It

(56:40):
was great to be around my brother and Tim and
and you know, introduced some new musicians like Sharky who
play guitar for us, who helped me out tremendously to
put the show together.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
It was.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
It was amazing. It was having an out of body,
like an out of body experience like more of like
I feel like I felt my ancestors talking to me,
especially in Mens Memphis. Was this we played at this

(57:15):
in this venue that just felt it was packed, like
it was like it was like black people from the
front to the back. And we haven't played I haven't
played the audience with all black people in a long
time really, because my audience is very diverse, you know,
over the years.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
As a solo artist, you feel like as.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
A solo artist, it's just got very diverse. But this
this audience was black from the front to the back.
Man in the South was everywhere. It was a few
different people in different places, but it just felt like
this whole because nobody had the phone. You could you
could look at me and I could look at you.
So it's probably different for artists. Really doesn't don't know

(57:56):
how that feels anymore to have a phone, to have
a you know, five thousand people looking right at you
and not.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
A phone, and you're you're the main main thing.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
So I think we we we share something that we
both haven't had in a long time. So it brought
out this energy of these spirits and energies that I
felt like most of the time I was I felt
like I felt like it didn't even happen. It was
just so you know, every moment we could take our
time you could walk off. We had an intermission. People

(58:28):
were very patient. You know, it felt like it was
like a house party, like we were all together in
this house party, and it was just everybody at the
good time. They were talking, they were hugging, he was kissing,
and sometimes the audience wasn't even looking at me. They was,
you know, talking to their girl and she's talking to
her men. They wasn't. They was just enjoying it, thinking
about the times when they heard this music for the

(58:49):
first time, and everybody was sort of reflecting on they
may have lost people in the family, and it had
this real deep feeling that I just never I never felt.
And so it was funny when there was anybody of
any other, you know, if they're somebody whiter some at
the shows, it almost felt like a Malcolm X rally.
It felt like it was this Cia. It felt like

(59:11):
a movie. I'm like, this is sit out of my market.
But but then as we got closer to San Francisco,
it got more diverse. Okay, people came out.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
You got the Paramount in.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
We played the Paramount and then we played I Forgot.
We played in San Francisco some.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Hall, Wharf Field do you play the war Field.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Didn't play the war field. We played. They played inside.
It was raining hard outside. But yo, I've never played
the Paramount ever. This is my That was my first
time playing the Paramount, and it was really good to
bring it home. We brought it home.

Speaker 1 (59:43):
It's a beautiful theater in Oakland. It was beautiful.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Yeah, it was so the experience was it was amazing.
I just felt like we needed to give people, you know,
give it back to them one more time, something that
they gave to us. They gave us the gift to
to like our music and to like what we were
doing because we didn't know what we were doing this,
you know, just kids making music with a record deal,

(01:00:06):
and we were able to put our some test, some
tests of the time, music that people still listen to.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
I mean, how did it feel for you guys to
do it, because because I mean, I feel like and
I guess there's two ways of thinking about it. When
you guys broke up, if that's what y'all want to
call it. After House of Music, I feel like you
guys kind of went out on top, like the House
of Music, Like I love all the records. House music
is like falling away from me my favorite record of y'all's,

(01:00:35):
and it's like, damn, there's probably so much more y'all
could have done. Or maybe it was the right time.
I don't so, I don't know, but y'all left like
on top for sure. Yeah we did, I mean so
to get together, like you know, twenty years later, Like
how did that feel for you? Guys?

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
It felt because we rehearsed right in this room. We
rehearsed here, and it felt good to see everybody in
the room and you know, like playing those songs live,
no no back tracks, just it felt really good. It
was more for me, like the nieces and nephew as
family members too, you know, and from my father, who's

(01:01:12):
not loving anymore. He would have wanted us to do that,
and I really wanted to. He said something to me
before about you know, how to look at things, you know,
no matter what you think they are, how you look
at them, and you know, and you how you want
to be perceived. And I wanted to be perceived as

(01:01:35):
I wanted to get people what they wanted because when
we were younger, Yeah, we blew it. We we broke up,
you know, we we we didn't we didn't we didn't
run it. I left, you know, I left the group.
But it was the perfect time for me to leave
the group. I mean, I didn't want to be a member.
I always have these stories about Eddie Kendricks, one of

(01:01:57):
my favorite people, you know, and he it was hard
for him to leave the Temptations. I'm guessing right. It's
such a big group, such big staple, stable songs or
and like you know Richerally leaving the Commodorees. You know,
he had big, huge compositions, and I didn't want to
get stuck being a just a group guy. I felt

(01:02:20):
like I had more to offer and I had ideas
of how I wanted to do things. And I wasn't
like the band leader guy who could tell people, you know,
this is how it's going to go, just do what
I say. So that was better for me to step
off and just and just try and you know, and see.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
What I was going to do.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
I wanted to work with other people. I just wanted
to play music, you know, and see if I could
copy these these legends that I loved.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
He didn't feel like you could do both, like you
didn't feel like that was.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Nah nah no, I just I just came home one
day and was like, just buy some Seatson tickets to
the Sacramento Kings. And I did, and I met Brian Grant,
who became one of my best friends to this day.
And I didn't want to, you know, he was I
had a detail shop up there, and so the Kings

(01:03:13):
cars will come there, different cars will come there. People
will come there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
But so you got the season tickets just as like
A I can't go. I can't, I can't book nothing
because I no.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
I just I got When I decided I was leaving
the group, I just decided I just moved the Sacramentos
new and Sacramento bought this house. There was nothing to do,
and I was like, it's not shit to doing Sacramento,
but louts a strip bar or lots a game.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
So I did both and season tickets.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
No, not season tickets, but not season tickets. But I
mean that's where I was like, you just hear a
lot of Metallica and Sacramental strip bars.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Oh man, that's dude, that's always a Metallica.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
And I was like, oh yeah, this is cool Metallica. There.
Nikki's coming up right now.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
Guys.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
The Metallican truck drivers and there was a Sacramento Kings
and then and so people was asking Brian for tickets
all the time. You know, he had a family's me,
I'm gonna get my own tickets, and that's what I did.
I ended up watching more basketball, watching more sports, and
and then I only worked on two artists at that

(01:04:26):
time was Diangelove's Lady and Total Kissing You Puffy scrowl HM.
Other than that, I didn't do much work for a
couple few years.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
You know, it's interesting to you you compared because like
you compare yourself to Eddie Kendricks too, because there are
some times listening to Tony Tony to that when you
when you and your brother like trade vocals, it's almost
like a Rough and Kendrick kind of like just the
way y'all sound sometimes, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
What I mean, because I always felt like, you know,
sometimes I'm watching sports shows, sometimes people scream too much,
like if I'm watching, if I'm watching I'm watching First Take,
I call First Take First Baptist cause it sounds like church.
It sounded like like tachers. They all sound like preachers.

(01:05:12):
But I love the show. I love the show. And
then I listened to I'll go to like, uh, it's
it called uh, it's called first things or something.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
First things, first thing, first first, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Their voices are too high. It's just like no, and
it's just irritates the hell out of me. And then
let's get bayless. I can't take skips at all. But
who was? No, who was on the show? I like
the Skip show Wayne on the receiver. Oh you're talking
about You're just blanking out on his name. That's terrible

(01:05:47):
because he's my favorite guy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
He just joined the last year.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
But I can't.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
It's great, great commentator. I can't.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Yeah, so he makes Skip show good. But I'm really
calling herd guy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
You're calling her guy. I know. I can't deal with
I feel about calling I like Skip. Bas reminds me
like wrestling, like.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
Colin is right because you know why, because Colin got
it right. Because Colin is no debating. He'll ask the question,
he debates himself. No, but yeah, but when he brings
he brings on great guests.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Yeah, okay, and he doesn't if I.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Ask you a question and then when you answer the question,
he goes to the next subject. He don't debate you
like that. He doesn't debate you, right, So back to
me and Dwayne. Yes, I think my voice is irritating sometimes, right,
So it was great to have me and Dwayne going
back and forth. And that's the way I see those
talk shows, those game shows. You need different people with

(01:06:42):
different voices because some voice might irritate you. My voices
is high and sometimes people it's it could be irritating.
It's too high, it's too But when Dwayne comes in,
it just levels me off and gives me the confidence.
You know. It's like, I don't want to say this,
but like you Michael and Michael and Jermaine, it wor right. Yeah, yeah,

(01:07:04):
so those talk shows. Yeah, I think Colin is the
man bro cool?

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Can I can't? Man? You like skip over? Collin skips
funny to me, skip just crack. It's like, it's so ridiculous.
He's like Trump almost yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
But okay, but.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
Listen, you're not wrong, you're right. But here's the thing, Like, Okay,
I might regret putting this on on Wax, but Trump
is actually kind of funny. It's just that he's just
that he's.

Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
Like Bush is funnier.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
Come on, they're both pretty funny.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
No, he's just Trump is just ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Trump. Well, you know what's ridiculous? This really ain't funny.
It's kind of fun. It's in the dark way that
you think about George Bush started the Iraq War, all
those veterans people, Dad Main terrible and now he's just
sitting there at home painting and he's good. Bro, Like what.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
Because now he's painting, Like look at this motherfucker. You
guys got out? Yeah, Like, whatever choice do you have?
Like most people I know, like a voting and who
wants to vote Trump? If you wouldn't think and everybody
want to save money on taxes, but I want to
save money on taxes too. But I'm like, if that's
gonna be lose the money, I.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
Would rather lose money than yeah. Yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
But Skip is definitely Trump.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
He is, but he's not trying to run the country.
That's what I appreciate about it, you know what I mean,
just trying to push.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
Comes in with a ready package, like you say something,
he's gonna combat it. I feel like they have them,
you could. I guess I can see their daily meetings.
I'm gonna take this position, you're gonna take that one.
That's why I like you, well, Colin. You know, there's
a meeting, but it's only one person.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
So Colin just reminds me of the guy in the
classroom that's doing too much, you know what I mean,
Like he's ruining everything for you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
It's like, you know what I like about Colin? I
know how he got him the sports thing. But the
funny thing about Colin I want to find out why
does he hate Aaron Rodgers so much?

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
That's a great question.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
It's funny though. He'll give him a break, but he'd
be like, you know, he just kills him. I think
I watched him so he just to watch him kill people.
But he has like really, I will say this, he
has really good tips for for being professional. If you
listen to him. Oh yeah, definitely, like he definitely.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
Okay, you gotta I'm gonna move to Manhattan Beach. Try
to try to link up with him. He maybe you
can mentor me on how.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
To because look at this podcast company is Draymond Green?

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
Yeah wait, no, that's it is that his?

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
That's his?

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Oh I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
Dude comes on and be like, you know he gave
dream on the platform.

Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
Yeah, he's a beast man.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
He's the beach. But skip. You got stephen A. Shannon
Wayne our boy who we can't think of right now.
He's put people on too.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
I'm just saying, I try, like I try. I skipped
my stations and I go along skip. I'm like, nah,
skips like skips, just like making people mad.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Yeah, yeah, I love it. I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
About It's a different structure, different folks.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
That's right, That's right, that's it. I feel like I'm
bouncing everywhere. But it's just like so cool.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
One more thing about skip, please more thing. His name
is perfect. You should just skip his show exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
That's the tack and skip me, skip skip that, just
skip this Bayless man. Yeah, y'all went down to UH
to record house of music. Y'all went down to Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
The house of music was the Sons and so was
the Sons and Soul. Y'all do think it was Sons
and so?

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
Okay, yeah, pre internet, Like, how did you know about
this studio down and how did y'all know to.

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
Get Like we found out from some of our training brothers,
Trent Gums and Desmond Gums, some guys. I was in
the Trent Gums. I was in a high school band
with him, and he's trendy. And he told us about
the studio they need, They needed people to come down
there and recorded. They gave us a good they gave
us a good price to come record the music. And
we stayed there for three months. Wow, stayed there for

(01:11:12):
three months. I think that's the first time I had
row ti. This is a sad part. It's the first
time I ever taste a mangle.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
Really.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
Yeah, I was in Trinida.

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
That's probably was a good mango.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
The best man who ever had my life. Wow, And
it was beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
It was.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
It's a beautiful place, beautiful music, beautiful food. And we
had almost five or six rooms to record in huge
orchestra room. It was It was a great time.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
Was it like? That?

Speaker 2 (01:11:44):
Was?

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
That was how many people? So it was you guys,
what else did you guys go down with?

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
We brought we might have brought like ten people and
we left. We left. It was only maybe three people
we left. Everybody wanted to leave except us.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
Wowe, it seems like an incredible Do you guys have
any footage at that time?

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
I don't think we filmed anything. We're the worst. We
weren't the Beatles. We didn't dock how you know. See
The Beatles have a documentary that came out maybe from
like forty years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
Yeah, yeah, and it's like literally it's like, yeah, they're
never off camera. Yeah yeah, I mean I just yeah,
it's pretty I guess that makes sense that it was
Sons of Soul because it feels like that's like, really
there's an energy on that album, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Yeah, Sons of Soul was like, yeah, it was definitely
a training right slow wine, Slow Wine, Yeah, slow Wine.
It's beautiful. I mean, like the rainforest. It would be
like just in the daytime, just to eating dinner and
and just just hard rain. It's just coming down, you
know because the windows are open. It's a they loved

(01:12:49):
the good life out there.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
I think I wanted to ask you, just going back
to Beyonce, your brother Dwayne brought Destiny's Child to Oakland
like before they live up right. Yeah, So it's like
did you did you like, yeah, can you tell that
story if you know it? And then did you know
Beyonce at that time?

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
No, I didn't know. I didn't know Beyonce at that time.
I actually was in La at the time, or I
was in Sacramento and then I moved to La So
I missed that whole thing. I wasn't around it at all. Wow, Yeah,
I know. I know. He had him through another guy
named Alonzo Jackson. A Lonzo Jackson is a guy we
were I was in a band with two and Dwane
was in a band with Lonzo Jackson's uncle. So we

(01:13:31):
were sort of like the kids band to that band.
And so. But there's also another lady who Lonzo matt
So he he met justin shout through this lady. She
ended up passing away, and then Lonzo brought the girls
to Duane.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
Did you hear from him about it? Like, yeah, I
got these.

Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
I mean he was working with a lot of people
at the time, He's working with Alicia Keys. After that
he had his own label. He was working a lot
of people. But like I said, I wasn't around for
any of it. I didn't know any of the artists.

Speaker 1 (01:14:07):
Do you guys get along or is that not?

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
Like no, we get along, but we get along. We're
just different. We're just different. And you know, I mean
growing up heles my you know, my child, my I
don't I wanted to be around them all the time.
It was a sort of an age gap there and
once you get it, once you get a record deal,
everybody start having the home to the friends, you know.
So and I was still enamborant with the trick that

(01:14:35):
I was. I was in the business, I was making records.
You know. It was like something that was really a
surprise to me, you know, because I'm pretty much wanted
to be like the assignment to play for people, So
I was too busy figuring this out and how not
to be a failure and what we said we were doing.

(01:14:56):
So I pretty much you know, it was trying to
you know, talk to to as many people as I
could to learn a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (01:15:08):
There was like a five year maybe five maybe six
year gap between house and music and instant vintage.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
Yeah, I wouldn't know because there's no gaps for me
because I'm always playing music. I'm always making records, so
they're just not coming out, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
But so there wasn't like when you left, like this
feel of urgency of like I got to get something
out established myself as now you did the song for like,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
For different people, it should have been some urgency, but
I didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
It's all worked out. I was just curious.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
No, no, it should have been some urgency, but I didn't.
I wasn't. I wasn't there like that. I was like,
you know, like I said, it was football, basketball, music,
video games, the new guitars, watching this person do that,
nieces and nephews, and I was nephew was playing, you know,
don't want to play basketball, so I would, you know,
fly him to Domingus from Sacramento to play in the league.

(01:16:01):
But the Pump Brothers and I was sort of like
helping my nieces and nephews getting good schools. And that
was part of it too.

Speaker 1 (01:16:07):
You could have become like a sports age or something.
You could have like, you know, there's a there's another
there's another path you can.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
I should tell my buddy, like I told Brian one time.
He wasn't doing that good. He well, his points was low,
and I just went to him one day. I was like, man,
so tell me something. I said. If they come to
you and say, you know they're gonna fire you, I didn't.
I said they're gonna fire The GM is gonna be

(01:16:36):
there for a long time. You probably get fired first,
like it's it's you, then it's the coach. Then it's
the gym. That's how I go, right. He like yeah,
he said, okay, I hear you. He went and he
got like he had. He got about what hit about
twenty he had about seventeen rebounds and that night and
he called me, he's like, you see the game. I'm

(01:16:57):
like yeah, he said, yeah, he said, I won't to
hear some records.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
You're a clutch producer man. Yeah, anything, Yeah, Charlie Ray.
That's on Charlie Ray. Yeah, where did that guitar part come?

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
Well, it came from me trying to be in my
funkadelic you know, d dum dum and it's like the

(01:17:31):
Charlie Ray's dum dum m m damm doom. It's like
a funkadelic dream.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
It's such a almost sounds like grateful deadish, like it's
so like it's just so I don't know that anyone.

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
I do have a lot of grateful dead type of
music that I haven't put out, what just like instrumental
stuff that yeah, yeah, yeah, I did.

Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
I did like it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
So my album before I did Jimmy Lee, I had
this whole other record that felt like Charlie Ray. And
then I started thinking about my brother and just all
this and some friends about drug addiction, and then I
just jumped off and got on this whole other wave.
And but I did have these records that then I'm

(01:18:25):
gonna put together. It's more instrumental stuff. Vocals happened, but
maybe like after two minutes in the record, what Yeah,
that's what that's the stuff I love. But you know,
I could do it now because I'm not I'm not
really in the record I'm not. I don't think I've
ever been in a record business. I think I've been
a friend of the brand. That's my thing, A friend

(01:18:48):
of the brand, A friend of really yeah, the friend
of the brand. I got that from like New Ballats.
I did this thing with somebody and instead of having
an ambassadors, they have my half somebody and a commercial
and it's like a friend of the brand. It's not
an ambassador. When I heard that, turnos like it. Oh
that that suits me just fine, because that's what I
felt like I've That's what I felt like I've been

(01:19:09):
and I'm a friend of the brand, which means I
really really love it. Yeah, I can call myself a
friend of the brand.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
Did you is that because you don't necessarily don't want
to be fully in it, like because you I'm sure
you could be.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
I mean, no, I think I want to be fully
in it. But I just want to, you know, dip
off and do regular shit, you know, and not. I
don't need to have ten celebrity friends and hang out
with them. You know, I don't need to be talking
about celebrity friends all day. I need to just you know,
I'm walking and you know I'm wanting to bite. I'm

(01:19:44):
just doing things that you know, my friends are. I'm
still friends with my friends from third grade.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
Damn.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
You know I still talk to them on the phone.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
Wow. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
I took some of my friends lyrics and put in
the song really, a song that he used to always sing.
And then I haven't seen him in twenty five years.
When he saw me, he's like, you sing my lyric
in the song?

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
Well, lyrics? What song?

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
It's not called Ford to love you? I will see
we stand by your like a tree. Yeah, anyone to
try to move me. But he had got it from Marvin.
Wow that but I didn't know. But we will be
on the street hanging out. He would be like, I'll
stand by your lack a tree. He always say that.

(01:20:29):
So my first record, his name is Rodney. He called him.
We got Rodney Smith, and he when he saw him,
he was like, He's like, tell him Ray it was
all our other friends. He said, tell him he already knew.
I said, tell him yep, I said, I took those
legs stand by you like he already knew.

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
Cole busted. Yeah, tell him that. Oh man, I'm gonna
circle back because this is one thing we dropped, which
was we started talking about the secret track and then
how did that we got off on it? Because that
Larry Graham one is my my favorite, But how did
that happen? When did that? Like?

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
I think I started doing it doing it because I
think Prince when I heard hello, how are you? It
was at the end of the record, and I've heard
maybe one other person do that, and I was like,
I wonder if I just like let the record go
off and for like a minute or two minute and

(01:21:28):
a half, what it's scared the hell out of people
up there in the house and the record pops. I
don't want to scare people, but I just thought, like,
you know this, this would be a thing that I
could start and I can continue to do it. And
I'm actually gonna put out some vinyl pretty soon of
previous stuff, previous stuff, and I'm store like the Vinyl

(01:21:49):
Club started putting on vinyl.

Speaker 1 (01:21:51):
Put the put the Grateful Dead project down.

Speaker 2 (01:21:54):
Well, now I'm definitely gonna do that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:55):
I'll buy that on vinyl, the gatefold define.

Speaker 2 (01:21:58):
I'm a vinyl head, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
Man cool Well and Raphael, thank you so much. Yeah,
thank you, Thanks so much, Raael for havings out there.
Who's beautiful Los Angeles Studio To hear some of our
favorite Rafael Sadiek songs. Check out a playlist at broken
Record podcast dot comic. Subscribe to our YouTube channel at
YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast, where you can

(01:22:22):
find all of our new episodes. You can follow us
on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced and
edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Marek Sandler
and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Toler. Broken Record
is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this
show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.

(01:22:44):
Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content
and ad free listening for four ninety nine a month.
Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts, subscriptions, and if
you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and
review us on your podcast app. Our theme Music's back,
any beats? I'm justin Richmond,

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