The Favors (Finneas & Ashe)

Word first broke about the band The Favors back in February, when cryptic posts revealed that Billie Eilish’s producer and brother, Finneas, was making new music with singer Ashe. Soon after, both artists began performing these songs live, introducing The Favors to audiences even before an official release.

Now, the band is set to drop their debut album, The Dream. They call it “a real chemistry album,” the product of free-flowing writing and jam sessions with their close friends David Marinelli on drums, and Ricky Gourmet on guitar.

On today’s episode, you’ll hear Finneas and Ashe perform two standout tracks from The Dream—“Times Square Jesus” and “The Hudson.” Justin Richmond also digs into their collaborative process, exploring how their creative partnership shapes not only the music but even the way they present themselves to the world.

You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from The Favors HERE.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin word first broke about the band The Favors back
in February, when cryptic posts revealed that Billie Eilish's producer
and brother Phineas was making new music with singer Ash.
Soon after, both artists began performing these songs live, introducing
The Favors to audiences even before an official release. Now,

(00:36):
the band is putting out their debut album, The Dream.
They call it a real chemistry album, the product of
free flowing writing and jam sessions with their close friends
David Marinelli on drums and Ricky Gourmet on guitar. On
today's episode, you'll hear Phineas and Ash perform two standout
tracks from The Dream. Times Square, Jesus and the Hudson
will also dig into their collaborative process, exploring how their

(00:58):
creative partnership shapes not only the music, but even the
way they present themselves to the world. This is broken record,
real musicians, real conversations. Here's my conversation, Phineas and Ash
of The Favors.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Hi, I'm Phineas, I'm Ash, and we're the Favors And
this is our song Time Squared Jesus.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
Mm hmmm mm hmmm. It's easy tell someone loud.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
To fee not.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
It's fun to tell someone you love that it's real.

Speaker 5 (01:58):
The house your dady built is underwater.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
No use China not to be mother's daughter.

Speaker 5 (02:14):
Everybody knows your my weakness. Your don't p seecret. I'm
a friend every time I walk by.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Time, squeechess.

Speaker 5 (02:37):
He tells me to confess before my grad.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
But I don't want to be see.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
She's everything had.

Speaker 5 (02:58):
I have a walk.

Speaker 6 (03:03):
To be because she's used and I'm no thread of ooh.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Still pick up your mother from me? She said I
should move on just my father's son.

Speaker 5 (03:27):
Everybody in asy my weakness.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
You're in allen see secret.

Speaker 5 (03:38):
I'm a fo every time I walk by time, squete Jesus.
He tells me to confess before month.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
I don't want to be saved. Looks your neve read
fill up your share.

Speaker 4 (04:29):
Nothing that you said has ever crown.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
Use me to talk about your saif you come off me,
but I know you mean well.

Speaker 5 (04:52):
Everybody knows any on my weekness. You're all in secly.
I'm a felly d.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
My walk, but I'm squich Jesus. He tells me to
confess with forma.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
You guys just on the spot like re re arranged
that fighting for our lives.

Speaker 7 (05:35):
That was all Finnea's just now. That was very I'm
sitting here very impressed by my friend.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
The fact you said that earlier, how impressed you were
when he sat because you weren't sure if he had
worked on it, worked on it. He hadn't. He just
was kind of he just kind of fell, you know,
fell out of his fingers, and you said it was like,
how incredible is have a friend that talented? And then
I'm sitting there and I'm.

Speaker 8 (05:56):
Listening to you sing Yeah I know the same way.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, like you must be the same way.

Speaker 6 (06:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (06:02):
Making his whole record was like that.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
It was like, I don't know, two people carrying the
same heavy thing, you know what I mean. You're like, oh,
you're you're totally strong, Like you're I only have to
carry my side of this, you know what I mean.

Speaker 8 (06:17):
Yeah, it's really great.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
I feel like totally it's fine that in life oftentimes
you're like one person is better at some thing than
the other person, and so you're like we're we're sharing
this burden. But I am sometimes I feel self conscious
when it's me, when I'm like I'm not lifting the
way that this other person is lifting and I feel
like making this record, I was like, oh, we're just

(06:40):
like both of us, I think we're like this is
kind of a lightlift because the other person we're with
it is so competent.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
Are there instances where you might more typically feel like
you're not carrying your end of the bar?

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Or you know, I guess anytime I do something like
brand new, like I score film and TV now and like,
I'm not very good at it, and you know, I
might have a good idea or a good instinct, but like,
I'm not experienced, So I have to ask a lot
of questions. I have to call my music editor and
call the filmmaker and you know, call the music soup

(07:13):
or whatever it is, and be like, what do you think?

Speaker 8 (07:15):
What should I do? What should I do next? You know?

Speaker 2 (07:17):
And so I'm grateful to those people for, you know,
being down to work with me.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Do you feel comfortable in that position having to make
not exactly knowing knowing that you're not exactly sure of?

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Truthfully, I feel super self conscious and kind of bad
about myself and event and that's and but that's the
only way I've ever gotten better at anything is like
wanting to not feel.

Speaker 8 (07:41):
That way anymore.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Like the first couple of records I produced, I was like,
I'm I felt so demoralized, and then you just get
through a couple of them and you're like, Okay, I
didn't die.

Speaker 8 (07:52):
I mean do some more.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
And eventually like we made this album in a way
where I was like, oh, I feel very confident about
how this should sound, and I don't know. I listened
to the whole album on the way over here to
kind of get like in the headspace of talking about it, and.

Speaker 8 (08:05):
I was like, oh, I love the way this sounds.
It's awesome.

Speaker 7 (08:09):
Yeah, I feel very well matched in a lot of ways.
I'll say I think we do, like probably lift each
other up when the other is like maybe not as
proficient as something like what he just did on piano
for times, Greg Jesus, I could not have done.

Speaker 9 (08:29):
I'm decent at piano.

Speaker 7 (08:31):
I did the other song, but I am not, you know,
I just don't have the same skill set. And I
feel like Phineas is that kind of person that's like
I've got your back. Like, I don't think it's always
just going to be a fifty to fifty thing. I
think it's sometimes it's going to be like a sixty
forty and we're going to like show up for the

(08:51):
other person in the way we need to.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
And how often is that that balance between the two
of you in this particular partnership. How often is that
strictly to do with the record or the recording and
the writing, and how much do that sometimes just lifestyle?
I would say.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
I would say writing the album was like, you know,
fifty to fifty, cut the circle in half, like very
very even, and she'd bring stuff in and we'd finish
it together, and I brought an idea two and we
finished it together. And then when we were in the
room starting stuff together, it was like very that the
writing of the record.

Speaker 8 (09:28):
Was totally fifty to fifty.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
And then I purposefully made the recording of the record
like a little bit raw. It was like me and
Ash and the two other guys who contributed musically played
drums and guitar, all in a living room, really in
a room about this size, and Ash and I sang
into these Mike capsules and we were in the room
about this far away from each other, and so I'm

(09:50):
kind of involved. I sort of forced everybody to be
present for the whole recording. There was no kind of
like I've made records before where like maybe if Ash
is just singing on that song, she's like gonna come in.

Speaker 8 (10:01):
Much later in the day.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
And we didn't do it that way with like everybody
was there for each others, but like the drumm would
play pass and we just sit there and we'd be like,
nice job, Maybe do that ending a little differently, Like
it was very democratized for sure. Yeah, in the mixing
post production process, I was sort of doing that on
my own because I had the computer, but I'd send
Ash everything and get her feedback on it and then

(10:24):
sort of vice versa. Like the kind of creative the
visual side of it has been like all helmed by
Ash and all, you know, like references and images she's
come up with which I've loved.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
So would you hang around earlier in the day as
they're tracking the instrumental bit of it?

Speaker 7 (10:43):
And then absolutely, I mean, and I had my own
opinions about what was getting played, you know, Yeah, I mean,
or Ricky you know who's on guitar, would play a
riff over and over and over and he would develop
it and it would become and it would like morph
into something because we all were sort of like, oh, yeah,
that's it, Oh you're onto something, or David be like

(11:05):
try this, but we did. When we first sort of
came up with the whole concept, I went and going, well,
maybe we should hire an engineer so that we're kind
of tracking this live. And then you aren't bearing all
the weight of the.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
Thing because the director actor I was.

Speaker 9 (11:29):
Like, you produce all these amazing albums.

Speaker 7 (11:31):
And then I felt, I think the truthfully as I
felt self conscious that I wasn't going to lift enough
weight on that end, on that end, and then I
think we got to the point where I'm like we
both were like, well, he's a producer, Like you're a
brilliant producer.

Speaker 9 (11:49):
We're kind of idiots if you don't produce.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
There's a nakedness too to making an album. That's like
we were really being intimate, like the four of us know,
like the two guys I was with I've known for
years and Ash got to know intimately through that. So
it's the four of us in a room and then
even like the fifth person in the room several of
the days was a photographer and a murial that Ash
is very close with that came in. But it is

(12:13):
just this closeness that like allows you to be really
brave and really kind of like even though you are
being observed, like you kind of act unobserved. And I
felt like that was the thing where I was like,
I'm willing to trade, like I'm a less good engineer
than if I hired somebody to come in and do this,
and I might make a couple of mistakes along the way,
but like the vulnerability is a trade that I'm willing

(12:35):
to make of Like, yeah, there's just you kind of
are like naked in front of each other. That's how
it feels to be singing that way and to be
making mistakes over and over. And I just thought like, oh,
somebody that I'm not so comfortable with might throw off
the jujuw.

Speaker 8 (12:49):
Of the thing.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
I mean like, yeah, I feel like this album was
like a real chemistry album, Like that was what made
it really fun, even like her talking about the like
Ricky developing his guitar part, like that process can make
you feel self conscious if you're sitting there noodling and
three people are.

Speaker 8 (13:07):
Like no, no, no, not that I like, no, I like.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
That part, but like he had to be so kind
of willing to let us editorialize, and he was. You know,
so I think that that whole kind of experience, even
like parts were ashes, like I don't know about that
harmony part, and like, great, let's think of the other one.
Let's try another one, you know what I mean, Like
just kind of have to be brave in front of
each other. So it was it was nice to have
it be sort of private. Although if we made another record,

(13:31):
I try to.

Speaker 8 (13:34):
I'll put it this way. Making this album made me
higher and engineer, and it made me be like I
wish I had an engineer that I worked with all
the time.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Really yeah, because that intimate nature, the intimateness and the
and the personalness does it feels in a lot of ways,
like the conceit of the album when you listen to
it as a whole, you know. I got to hear
a couple of songs as they came out early, and
then when I finally got sent the full album and
I listened to it, I was like, I get, I
get what this is. Sure, so but you so you
but you would make it a little different this time

(14:02):
though for another time.

Speaker 8 (14:03):
If you would make that album differently.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
I think I would try to distill the things that
went well about making that record and then incorporate additional things.

Speaker 8 (14:12):
Got it, Yeah, got it?

Speaker 1 (14:14):
And you guys made this a bit ago, right, A
couple of years ago?

Speaker 9 (14:18):
Or was it when we finish it a year ago?

Speaker 4 (14:21):
Right?

Speaker 9 (14:22):
A year ago?

Speaker 7 (14:22):
Now?

Speaker 4 (14:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (14:23):
A year ago okay, and before you guys did your
last two solo records, right.

Speaker 7 (14:29):
I finished mine before we finished this, Yeah, but it.

Speaker 9 (14:35):
Was but we kind of started it.

Speaker 8 (14:36):
Yeah. I finished mine pointedly.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
I was like, finished mine, like by July fourth, and
then we recorded most of this record starting on like
the twentieth or something. I was like, it was very
close and proximity.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
Got it because I was as I was listening to Wilson,
as I was listening to you, yes, exactly, and then
listening to this again. I just want to discern if
there was a relationship between the three or if this
was something completely unique and separate creatively for you guys.
And I don't know how you guys.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
I wrote all of for Crying Out Loud after we
wrote half of this record, and so I knew in
my mind, like that stuff is going to come out.
So I was probably sort of to some degree, trying
to not.

Speaker 9 (15:16):
Inform you were informed by it, Yeah.

Speaker 8 (15:18):
Well, trying not to copy it. I didn't want to.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
I didn't want to go and make this album twice
because I don't want it to be special.

Speaker 8 (15:25):
And then I also didn't want to have there be
like no paper trail.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Like if I'd made like a really experimental Synthia album
and then was like, hey, guys, like by tickets to
the favorite show, I think that'd be a stranger transition.
There's songs on my last record, like Cleats and even
the single for Krandit Lad that like they feel like
my own, but like they make sense that this came
after that to me. Yeah, I feel the same about Wilson.

(15:49):
Wilson has an organic feeling, I.

Speaker 7 (15:51):
Think, yeah, also similarly organic, but I mean topically, you know,
Wilson was such a self examination of you know, I
almost quit music and like a journey back to music
and like relationship with being public person at all and

(16:12):
just traumas and YadA YadA. Whereas this record was such
a experiment in writing with these other characters and personas
and sort of writing like a script, which I've never
done before. And same was super fun and kind of
liberating in a way.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah, yeah, we'll be back with more from Phineas and
Ash after the break. We should talk about the writing
process because that song, in particular times Jesus Is I
thought it was one of my favorite songs on the
album thank You, and in a way because when you
hear the When I heard the first verse at first,

(16:55):
I wasn't one hundred percent sure what the song was about.
Then I heard the chorus, I was like, oh, I
think I know what the song is about. And then
it gets to the second verse, I'm like, actually, I
really don't know what the songs about. But in the
best way, like not in like you know, it's like
this song is like there's it's clearly feels like it's
like a song that it's going to like unfurl over it. Yeah,
and maybe change meanings, but w how did you guys? Look,

(17:16):
what was the writing process on that song?

Speaker 8 (17:18):
The rating president that song was really specific. Do you
want to talk about it? It's awesome.

Speaker 9 (17:21):
It was really cute of us.

Speaker 7 (17:25):
I mean from the jump, it was like I knew
we needed an acoustic guitar song on the record, which
we hadn't had yet. And we were pretty deep into
making the album, and I was like, we're idiots if
we don't make that song. And I think I probably
said that and walked away. And then I came grabbed
a cold brew for the millionth time of the day

(17:45):
and then walked in and Phineas was playing the acoustic
that he was playing that riff that's the main sort
of melodic hook of Times Square Jesus, and I was
similar to just now when he just pulled this out
of his pocket with Time Square, I was like, jaw dropped,
like that's unbelievable. That's the song. Let's go from there.

(18:09):
And I think we started with the chorus.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, everybody knows that you're my weakness, I think to me,
like I only need one line to be like great,
like I'm in, let's write the rest of this song,
like everybody knows that you're my weakness. You're an open secret,
I'm afraid. To me, I was like all right, great,
Like yeah, that's worth pursuing all day.

Speaker 8 (18:30):
That's great.

Speaker 7 (18:30):
And Phineas kept like rattling off like like when you're
in Times Square and it's like the person Elvis that
and then he came aim up with times square Jesus,
and everyone was like, that's it.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
That's so good.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
It's really good. It's a super accessible image, you know,
and it's like you know what it is when you
hear it, but then it's obscured coming across.

Speaker 9 (18:53):
Yeah, I'm square Jesus.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
In La You do see like a Jesus every two years,
like on an overpass or something, and you're like and
it's always weird because you're like, I know that's a guy,
but like Jesus was a guy.

Speaker 8 (19:11):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
You have to wonder.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, it definitely makes you get introspective for an hour.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yeah, what was that was?

Speaker 1 (19:18):
What if God was one of us?

Speaker 3 (19:20):
Uh Uh?

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Whenever that group is called that, that song is the greatest. Yeah,
well yeah, what if God was one of us? Just
just a stranger on the bus.

Speaker 8 (19:30):
Trying to make his way home. It's a great song. Yeah.
But anyway, so then we had the.

Speaker 7 (19:35):
Hook and then we I don't I don't know what
got into me.

Speaker 9 (19:40):
Yeah, but I sort of was like it's usually the
cold brew.

Speaker 7 (19:45):
And I was like, what if we did like an
experiment where we break off into groups and each write
a verse and phineas as like such an earnest pure
Man was like, I love that. Let's go write a
beautiful verse. And then me and Ricky go to the side,
and I'm like, we have to write the best verse

(20:05):
of all time. We got to beat their verse, and
then you did, No, I did verse. We were like,
best verse gets the first verse, and sure enough, neither
of those verses did they know?

Speaker 9 (20:18):
Your verse ended up being the first verse.

Speaker 8 (20:20):
But you like, we changed all of it things we.

Speaker 9 (20:24):
Know verse on a shelf.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
Verse was like the third verse, the book, the books
and the whatever that was in the Yeah, I mean
we wrote these unconnected things. We had the chorus in
common to kind of get in and out of, and
then we wrote these different things. But I think that,
like Ash wrote this verse that I loved, and then
I was like, oh well, then let me write a
prequel to your verse. Like your verse is great, but
let me contextualize it, and then it'll I'll just mirror all.

Speaker 8 (20:49):
Of the good stuff you wrote.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
And what was it that you What was it that
she wrote that you particularly?

Speaker 2 (20:54):
I loved that she says you're too much your father's son.
I loved the.

Speaker 9 (20:58):
Stuff to book up your mother from the airport.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yeah, it was sad and yeah, I just thought it
was a pure image, and so ours is the house
your daddy Bill was underwater, and your your your mother's stiff,
and this kind of like there's a lot of sort
of like the psychoanalyzing somebody that you used to be
in love with on this record. That's kind of like
the main theme is the sort of like remember the

(21:21):
history of all of this stuff that I know about you.
There's a song near the end of the record called
Lake George that's like I've seen the place you were born.
That's like one of the lines, and I feel like
that's kind of the whole album is like, yeah, I
know so much about you, even though you're in the
rearview mirror of my life. I know all of this
stuff about you, and you know, whoever you're with now knows.

Speaker 8 (21:42):
Less, which is I think a hard feeling not to have.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
To some degree in your life, especially the older you get,
because you're young. Relationships they were young too, and so
you're like, I was there, I was.

Speaker 8 (21:55):
Part of your origin story.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
And then now you're off saying whatever you want about yourself.

Speaker 8 (22:00):
But I know what it was like. I know how
you were at eighteen and.

Speaker 7 (22:03):
Like who you are is part of because I was
in your life, that's right. Like I'm me because this
kid Taylor was my first boyfriend for five years.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
Right, it's a long time for a first boyfriend. I am.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
I had a four year first girlfriend. Yeah, a real monogamous.

Speaker 9 (22:19):
People romantic wow. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
But I think that like the verses, the abstract part
of the verses to me, Like I was listening to
songs of Leonard Cohen a lot when I was working
on this record with you, and like he's a real poet,
but I don't know what he means, you know what
I mean. I know that it's evocative and it's interesting,
and maybe he can justify, like I can kind of
justify every line in the song, but it's not important

(22:44):
to me. What's important to me is like the abstract quality.
I think we're like we've entered in the last ten
years into a hyper specific period of songwriting.

Speaker 9 (22:55):
I saw you on the street and then you took
out your pencil.

Speaker 8 (22:58):
Oh dude, I saw you.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
I saw you on the corner of you know, this
specific street as the CBS Pharmacy, Like like it's so
kind of plebeian and there is a kind of a
there is a power in it. But sometimes I'm like sure,
but like, if you tell me that a house was beautiful,
I'll just imagine a beautiful house. I don't have to
then hear all about you know what I mean, like

(23:24):
a very very very fine house. Yeah, but I think
that that to me is like this song's sort of
opaque quality. To me, it is like I love that.
I love just sort of like picking out little lines.

Speaker 7 (23:36):
I mean, I know where we're sitting here, like talking
about the songs. But I do think it's a annoying
trait when people over explain yeah, you know, because I
don't want to know what Chris Martin meant by it
was all yellow, Like I like what I make up

(23:58):
in my own because I am a romantic and all
the things I learned.

Speaker 8 (24:01):
A couple of years ago.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
People had come up to me and they go, what
did this line in this one song mean? And I'd
tell him and they'd be like, oh, well, what I
thought it was was this.

Speaker 8 (24:10):
And I'd be like, well, then that's great, Like let's.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Just all disillusion well and like they're not interested in
what I They're not actually what they really want to
hear is that I thought the exact same thing they did,
which I inevitably never did, and so like now I
just go like what does mean to you?

Speaker 8 (24:24):
And they say it, I'm like I love that.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
Like that's great, that's a great move. I just pretend that,
like that's amazing. I mean, that's like the human conditions.
Everyone just wants walks around, wanted to be affirmed on
some level. And of course whatever your own lyrics really true,
could not live up to what someone else has, like
they imbued to.

Speaker 8 (24:43):
Them, it's really true.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
You know, three four, five years of listening or even
a single couple of listens, that was a pretty unique
version of writing.

Speaker 7 (24:52):
Yeah, it was the only that was the only song
that we did that on and we were again very
deep into the album that point. It really felt like
we had nothing to lose.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah, the other really like group think songs were like
There's Home, Sweet Home, David's brother the Dream. Those are
the other three that were like we're all shooting ideas
over the table at each other.

Speaker 8 (25:14):
And that was also really fun.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
And what David's brothers a pretty is a cool one too?
What was the spark for that one?

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Ash was playing that cool piano part with chords. I
really don't. This is the best part about writing the
songs with other people, like chords that are not always
in my back pocket, like not the thing my fingers
go to, and I love the chords. And then she'd
been at the keys all week and so she was
kind of like, man, I've had to sit here and

(25:43):
play and sing the whole time. So I was like,
that's okay, I'll play it for you. So she wrote
the piano part, but then I sat and played it
so she could kind of like think and sing well.

Speaker 7 (25:51):
And he has like such a way with rhythm. Rhythm
on piano is a tough it's just not that easy.
And like I was like, this is this will be
a better song if we switch, and by switching, I'm
not going to play an instrument.

Speaker 9 (26:05):
Anymore, and you have one, and yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
But that was really fun. And that was again like
kind of a high concept of like got a couple
of lines deep. I remember like hold my breath and
count to thirty, which is such a long number, saying
it's sang really good, but you're like thirty holding your
breath for thirty seconds, so you're gonna feel it. But
it was really about kind of like spinning out after
a breakup, and the premise is like you're you're at

(26:32):
home and your house is a mess, and you're.

Speaker 8 (26:34):
Like this is pathetic, like I.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Got to go out, and then you go out and
you run into the person that you've broken up with
and you're like this is way worse, like this is
I have to I should have stayed home, And so
that became the whole thing. And then we had this
kind of like geographical thing on the record this time
Squared Jesus and the Hudson and Home Sweet Home is
a bar in New York, and we had the song
the Dream, and we we really made this kind of

(26:56):
LA New York record. So we were listing all these
bars in LA, like we're going to say. We had
the line acupuncture, doing therapy and acupuncture change my shirt,
my clothes, and my number my number. Yeah, and so
we're like, what's a bar that rhymes with number? And
we were slant rhyming of the bar called forty one
hundred that's on the East Side, and Ash's like, forty

(27:17):
one hundred is a stupid bar name to sing like,
She's like I live in Nashville, Like that doesn't that
was the.

Speaker 9 (27:22):
Voice of reason for sure, because these three boys were like.

Speaker 7 (27:25):
Yeah, forty one hundred, that's so good.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
I think it's I think when you have been there,
you picture like, I think that bar is like CD.
And so I was like, I was like, oh, that's
funny to think about that bar. And I She's like
saying forty one hundred. It's not like the Dresden has
a cool name. The Sunset Tower is a cool name.
Fort is just like a number. Yeah, yeah, And so
we were like, well, what's a bar that and then

(27:51):
David was like, well, my brother goes to that bar
all the time.

Speaker 8 (27:53):
We were like, what if we just never say the
name of the bar.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
It's just like you're at the bar that with David's brother,
because that was the bar that he went to.

Speaker 8 (28:00):
And then it became this kind of like who the
fuck is David's brother?

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Like you're dating the girl you used to date is
now on a date with David's brother, and you're like, God,
damn it, that's U And I don't know, the whole
thing became privately funny to us, and then it was like,
all right, how can we illustrate that this is funny?
And then there's like those lines in the second verse that's.

Speaker 9 (28:19):
Like Daddy was a tennis star.

Speaker 8 (28:21):
That's in the dream.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
But there's those lines that's like, yeah, there's try to
be a different person. Shot way to learn your lesson
of who you are and who you're not? Uh uh,
what's what's the one with the eighth in my purse?
And I've never looked better, but I've never felt worse.

Speaker 8 (28:41):
It's a lot.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
It's just kind of about, you know, picking yourself up
and trying to move on with your life.

Speaker 9 (28:45):
And waking up in a basement.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
Is that the dream?

Speaker 1 (28:49):
You know?

Speaker 7 (28:49):
You know why I keep confusing talking about can we
switch the topic? I had a very similar experience writing
both of those songs because I pretty much just watched
and like cracked.

Speaker 9 (29:04):
Up the entire time.

Speaker 7 (29:05):
Because they the three like Ricky, David and Finny as
are like they're the Triple Crown, Like they're the three Stooges,
you know, and they're they do have this camaraderie that
I they so graciously let me step into and making
this album. But they definitely had an established sort of

(29:25):
like very very close best friend and boys, you know,
and so they were just like riffing and cracking up
the entire time writing specifically those two songs.

Speaker 9 (29:38):
So I'm kind of thinking of that.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Did it take a while to be able to step
into that and feel comfortable? Like just sort of I.

Speaker 7 (29:44):
Don't think I ever got comfortable, not in like a
guys like let me in, not at all that, but
more so like I have no interest in my voice
being heard if it's not like needed. Sure, like if
I have a great line, I'm not gonna be like, hey, guys,

(30:07):
i have something to say. But if I'm like observing
them being so intellectual and funny and you know, I
have no interest in like, hey, guys, remember my ego
in the room?

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Well I would argue too that, like there's two roles
in a room like that, and it's like they're both
totally equal contributions, which is like concepting and then actual
like rhyming syllables. So like my memory is that like
we were all really concepting, you know, even down to
like the name of the bar thing right, You're like, oh,

(30:40):
that's not the right name, you know what I mean?
Like that is as that's an equal contribution to like
saying the word acupuncture in the song it's like, well,
what's kind of like one of us being like, yeah,
well you're taking you're trying to make yourself feel better,
and you're you know, you're you're shaving your beard or you're.

Speaker 7 (30:55):
You know, yeah too, like I'm raz ricky about about lines.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
Yeah, but I think that again, I think that, like yeah,
that the role is one or the other, like David,
for like in the Dream, you know, you write parts
of the song without knowing what you're necessarily writing, and
so we were writing what ended up being the bridge,
which is that crazy run on sentence, which is, uh,
you know, I know that you want I know if
you wanted to call you, would you live in your car?

(31:22):
But you say you're in Hollywood, sold your guitar just
to pay for that video you sent to the studio.

Speaker 8 (31:27):
It's all about who you know.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Like that, another one like that too, The really pre chorus.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Is like hard not to feel pathetic, max and out
your credit card on someone's beverage.

Speaker 8 (31:36):
Yes, but again it's like those.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Are all kind of like born of the seed of
like we're like, what's a You're like, what's a fucked
up thing to do? It's a fucked up thing to
make a to do an American.

Speaker 8 (31:47):
Idol audition, like like.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
And mail that in and like we're talking about like,
you know the person that we like, you know, you
live in LA and everybody has like a distant relative
or a friend who like came here with the same
dream you had and like did not succeed and is
either pretending that they succeeded or they're you know, making
it work whatever it is. So like again, a lot

(32:12):
of it's like the concept of like yeah, yeah, somebody
who lives in their car. Yeah that's good, Okay, well
they made a music they maybe they just auditioned.

Speaker 8 (32:19):
For American Idol. Whatever.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
You're like, do we say American Idol? Do we say
like do we make it more vague? We say that
video and like talk about so I don't know. To me,
that's all kind of like writer's room behavior.

Speaker 8 (32:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
The one I always pointed David at is we had
that like somebody that you've met at the bar, she
lives in Venice, And then we had like rhyming that
like maybe your dad is a dentist, and then David
was like their dad was a tennis star, and we
were like we were like, dude, yeah, that was a
line I never would have thought of, and it rhymed

(32:50):
even better because you're rhyming bar. But it was also
just like that's what her dad is. Like the song
the premise of that song is like you meet a
NEPO baby like you're you moved to La broke as fuck,
and you go to the bar and there's a really
pretty girl who's clearly born a millionaire and you're like,
let me buy your drink.

Speaker 8 (33:08):
You're like, don't even have the money, and she no money.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
Money is of no concern to this person because her
dad is you know, Roger Federer or whatever. It is
like for me, I don't know, it was such a
better It's the best part of having somebody like David
there where you're like, oh, I wouldn't have thought of that,
and that's even better.

Speaker 8 (33:24):
It's way better.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
You mentioned like the ideating part of songwriting into and
then there's like the separate part, which is like finding
maybe like the internal rhymes of a of a song.
Is that something that you both separately? Is that? Is
that a pretty tried and true process for the both
of you or for necessarily neither of you All the.

Speaker 7 (33:43):
Time, I think it really changes that I typically I
start like smack dab in the middle of a song
and and I'll usually find like a lyric that grabs
me and then I go from there.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Do you know it's the middle always or is it
just turn out to be like the middle?

Speaker 7 (34:04):
No, sometimes the middle turns out to be the beginning.
But in my head, like there's like a freedom to that.
There was a song Lake George started that way. I
was on a walk. It was the last song that
we wrote on the album, and I was staying with
Phineas and Claudia and I went on a walk that
morning because I'm up, like god awful five am well

(34:26):
before them. And I make the joke like my biggest
contribution to this band is like all of my best
ideas come sort of like alone and on a walk
at you know, six or seven, and I was listening
to Bookends by Simon and Garfuncle, and you know, the

(34:48):
Lake George sounds is nothing like anything on that record,
but it just it sparked a same story album.

Speaker 8 (34:53):
It's like old friend totally.

Speaker 7 (34:56):
Yeah, And I brought in like a verse and a
chorus to Phineas and we went from there.

Speaker 9 (35:03):
Yeah, I don't know what the point I was making.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Oh concept, Yeah, I'm going to write not better, but
way faster. If I have a concept, if I have
like a if I have a thing to build.

Speaker 8 (35:15):
What do we see it?

Speaker 9 (35:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, Like the the best example maybe in my life
if that was like the Barbie Songvillion I wrote like
I'd seen the movie. I knew what scene they needed
a song for. Like to me, I had like every
piece of information to write that, Like I had all
the legos you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (35:33):
You just like overnight, didn't you.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
We did it in like an hour and it was
so fast, but it was because it was so informed.
Like a lot of making a song is very uninformed.
You're like, yeah, that's a pretty melody. What are we saying?
What's the line?

Speaker 8 (35:45):
Who is this? Do you know what I mean? It's
like a lot of discovery.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
And so if you can get a kind of a
you know, foundation under your feet to like be like, oh,
I know where I'm standing, then you can be like
I can walk that direction and.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
You don't worry that it'll be two on the nose
if you already, because then you.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Don't have to because you can still say anything. But
it's just kind of the It's just the seed of
like what am I? What am I seeing? What am
I writing about?

Speaker 7 (36:06):
You can still say anything is really smart. That's a
good quote.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
You don't have to feel locked in. Yeah. Yeah. George
Ducolius was telling me how he like, you guys, wait
I saw that. He like, He's like, yeah, it was
that's what they want to do it And then I
can't watch the movie and then.

Speaker 8 (36:23):
Like no, that was a good night. He just said it.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
That was a good example of like how I feel
like I've I've been rewarded for acting this way, which
is like you know, we get put in touch with
Greta Gerwig, We get sent to I guess Warner wherever
we were, and it was like Greta and David Hayman,
who I'm like, that's the that's that motherfucker from the
Harry Potter Behind the Scenes DVD because he's produced all
the Harry Potter movies. So it's like Hayman, Greta and

(36:47):
George with us, and it was like they're again they're
being like very effusive and accommodating, you know what I.

Speaker 8 (36:54):
Mean, like whatever you want to, whatever you want to do.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
And I was like what do you need like what
where's the what scene? Do you need a song? Let
us do that, you know what I mean? Like I
know we could do whatever, but like like let's be
handyman for you, you know, so kind of getting her
to be like, well, if we could, if we need
one song, it's really this one song for this one scene.

(37:17):
And they're like great, but again it's like you kind
of have to let people have to be like I
know you're being accommodator to me, but I want to
be helpful, like I want to. It's like Ashby, like
we need a guitar song for this part, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 8 (37:30):
Like Okay.

Speaker 7 (37:31):
Great is a really big strength of phineases though, and
I think it's he's made me a better writer in
that regard because I think that I do have a
tendency to find something that excites me, like a lyric
or a word or a title, and then I'll just
like sculpt away everything that isn't the song, and then

(37:52):
you're left with like I know what I was saying,
like you kind of let it reveal itself.

Speaker 8 (37:58):
But those are such great those make such great songs.

Speaker 7 (38:00):
Some of those are really good songs. But I do think, Yeah,
he's made me a better writer, and like, let's figure
out what we're talking about and pain, you know.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
I mean that's also by virtue of like Ash can
do that all day long and write an amazing song alone.
But if I'm going to be helpful at all, Like
what if that one mean?

Speaker 8 (38:17):
Like you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (38:17):
I mean, if you're gonna be like that sort of
group dynamic of writing well or.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
Even just the two of us, Yeah, it's like I'm
going to write something stupid if I am not in
the same like place that she's in. I've worked with
some really talented songwriters who like won't divulge whether whether
they know or not, they won't clue me in to
what they're to, what they're to why they're saying that line.

Speaker 9 (38:39):
Has them such a disservice, Yeah, I mean it's self.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Consciousness or it's is that what it is or whatever
it like I or vulnerabile or like fuck I like
I don't want to tell that person that this is
what it did. Like I really empathize, but I it
makes me like useless, Like I'm like, oh, all right,
well I can sit here and play guitar for you.
But I can't come with a good line. I don't
know what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Do you even try in those scenarios or do you
just kind of no?

Speaker 2 (39:02):
I mean like I'll keep asking questions, but if if
they won't tell me, I'm like, all right, dude, like
do let me press.

Speaker 8 (39:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
I've had days with Billy where she's like, you know,
been that way in the past, years ago. Usually it's
before like a breakup, and then you go through the
breakup and you're like, right, so.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
You kind of know it's an early tell. You can
kind of tell it's well.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
You're it's an early tell that somebody is thinking something
that they're not got telling you. I mean, and it's
just kind of knowing any friend, anytime you're like, anytime
you're somebody's answer is like uncomplicated, like how's how have
you been? And they're like I've been great. You're like,
all right, dude, you if you were a great you
can tell me. You could tell me why, you know
what I mean, like, oh, this thing has been really

(39:47):
fun and I've been really having a great time surfing
whatever it is. Somebody's like I've been doing great.

Speaker 8 (39:51):
You're like, all right, you're lying.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
It makes me feel good because I don't think I
ever get a straight answer to question. Everything's everything good?

Speaker 9 (39:59):
I'm a rambler.

Speaker 7 (40:00):
I had a session with Tobias Jesser Junior before I
really knew him as a person, and I was like,
I've never said this out loud, but I think I'm
going to leave my husband. Wow, you know, and like
that's what writing sessions are really good for, if you're
willing to be sort of like vulnerable.

Speaker 9 (40:19):
And I mean that was a really scary thing to
say out loud.

Speaker 8 (40:22):
But also protected by not knowing him to some degree.

Speaker 9 (40:25):
Yeah, you strangers for sure.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah, it's like a trial broadcast in it out.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
I said to I work with this girl, Lucy Healey
a lot, and she's awesome. She does my jobs like
we do the same thing separately, and then we've worked
together and I said to her, like five weeks agaus,
Like what do you think it is about us that
makes everybody tell us all of their secrets? And you
know it's not true universally, but I do think it's like,
first of all, most people are way less curious than
you'd think they are. Most people are like not asking

(40:53):
enough questions. Yes, and then I also think that we
don't we're not honest with people because of their reactions.
Like we really underestimate how informed we are by reaction.

Speaker 8 (41:04):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
It's like you show your friend the thing you're proud
of if you feel like they're gonna see it and
acknowledge it, and you know, really to like understand why
you're proud of it, you know what I mean? Like
you you really are are sort of learned by your
reactions to stuff. And I think one of the things
that I have really learned from songwriting is like people

(41:25):
do low key to sit with you and tell you
traumatic stuff that they've been through, or they do what
Ash did a tobias and they tell you something that
they're they've decided they're gonna do. That then is kind
of your secret to keep, you know. And I think
it's really important to to not really bad an eye,
you know, to kind of sit there and just be like, Okay,

(41:48):
you know, thanks for sharing that. You know now I
know you more clearly.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
There was I don't know how real it is or not,
but either in relation to this project or in relation
to projects of viewers in the past, I've heard you
talked about bringing in non musical references to sort of
help shape songs shape.

Speaker 8 (42:07):
Is that an accurate imagery and stuff imager?

Speaker 7 (42:10):
Yeah, definitely when it comes to the visuals. I don't
know how much it completely informed our lyricism on this record,
but once we've really got into like the meat and
potatoes of the album, I was sending pictures of like
JFK and Jackie.

Speaker 9 (42:29):
O, and I was like, this could be us on
a sailboat.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Like you sent imagery like before we even wrote songs.
I think I thought you sent imagery so early, which
I loved, was.

Speaker 7 (42:38):
Like great, there's definitely a pincher's board of like Paul
Newman and I'm like, Phineas is Paul Newman and he's
going to start tucking his shirts in and where did yeah?

Speaker 1 (42:50):
And he looks so you kind of wuldn't look going
it's like the casual you know.

Speaker 7 (42:55):
I think I am a real fan of like bringing
people into an entire like mini universe. So when you're
listening to an album and you're like, I am so
clearly in this world there or not, we were in
that world when we were making it. I just think
there's something more enticing about a full yeah.

Speaker 8 (43:16):
An image picture.

Speaker 7 (43:17):
You know.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
Yeah, Ricky, who plays guitar in our band, is aesthetically
motivated like ashes, and I think like his face lights
up whenever I talk about like what we're all going
to kind of wear for the shows. You know, I'm
not saying we all wear this, but I've often been like,
I really want us to look coordinated, like whatever it is.
I want us to really look like a unit. Like
to me, that's a band thing. That's the difference between

(43:39):
like a solo artist and you know players. It's like
if a band really looks like it has a cohesive thing.
And you know, he has such good references and he's.

Speaker 9 (43:49):
Like, I'm telling me one of the coolest looking.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Style periods that like I don't know about, you know,
was the Fairport nineties airport casual and you're like, all right,
man like like things where you're like wow, okay, but
it's all whenever I look it up, I'm like, oh, yeah,
it's a great that's great looking.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
Do you guys land on something?

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah, we have some we have some stuff that I
won't I won't you know, speak out of existence here,
but yeah, always some good pulls.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Okay, all right, if you said it was a nineties
airport casualty.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
I briefly went down a nineties airport casual thing and
it was crazy.

Speaker 8 (44:23):
What is not that?

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Well, what it's like Woody Harrelson wearing like the loudest
letterman jacket in the world and tucking his pants into
his socks, and shit, it's quits insane.

Speaker 7 (44:33):
Phyas asked what I was gonna wear today to this,
and I sent him a picture of the outfit, and
I was like secretary on lunch, like everything has like
its own slogan.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
I have four outfits total in my life, and I
use ashes my barometer of like formal verse casual. Right,
so like of my four outfits, I'm like, how formal
are we going? And if she goes formal, I'm alright,
I'm wearing a suit. And if it's casual, in my god,
I'll wear my shirt.

Speaker 7 (45:00):
Although it's really cool at a Hyde park, I like
he brought me out, which was so sweet in this
for singing like sixty thousand people.

Speaker 9 (45:10):
And he went out in like a.

Speaker 8 (45:12):
Cool like Marnie, like a Martin.

Speaker 7 (45:15):
Bin button down and he looked so laid back, and
I walked on in this like full sparkle like diva
out thing, and like I saw comments that were like
they're be thing, Like.

Speaker 9 (45:28):
They're not, They're not on the same page. I thought
we looked so cool.

Speaker 7 (45:32):
I thought so yeah, but I was like, I'm kind
of down whether you think we're fighting.

Speaker 8 (45:38):
I wore it on. I was like, this will look
great with ashes thing.

Speaker 7 (45:42):
Yeah it was, yeah, you were calculating about it. I
love that they thought we were fighting.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
I hope they always do the level of like meta
narrative that I feel like, yeah, you know, fans build
around like I mean, not even particularly you guys, you
can talk about all artists about herself.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
No, I mean I feel like probably you know, through
all of time, but I think certainly in the last
several years, like it's we talked about you know, Kendrick,
but it's all rap beef, Like Olivia Rodrigo's first album
is rap beef, like it's the we and what I.

Speaker 8 (46:17):
Say by rap beef, we say out loud what I
what I say.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
About that is like what what we want from rap
beef is oh, I know who they're singing about?

Speaker 8 (46:28):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (46:29):
And that's really what kind of is the motivator, and
in most popular music is like oh shnap, I know
that that song is about that guy that's now dating
that person. Like there is a lot of with like
it's we've really we're invested in it, you know, And.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
I guess it's the rumors playbook too.

Speaker 8 (46:46):
Well, you've really all been going around for a long time.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
I mean I think that, you know, our relationship with
artists on social media platforms is exacerbated. We can pick
apart rumors in retrospect. But like when rumors came out,
they didn't they didn't know that that was what was
going on. They just were like, wow, great songs, they
sound in love, you know what I mean? And then
like you you dissect it years later, but now it's
in real time.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
In in real time, Like how like does that impact
how you guys feel about stuff when you put it out,
because it's like as soon as something comes out, there's
no like gestation.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
Pulling crazy, Like anytime I work on a project and
I send somebody something and they react instantly, you know,
they have a note or something, I'm like, motherfucker, sit
on it.

Speaker 8 (47:28):
Sit on it for a day, like you know what
I mean? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
How often are you like shown something and you love
it immediately. Stuff takes time to like process and.

Speaker 8 (47:37):
Absorb, you know.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
I'm more like like sometimes someone sends me something nothing
for it.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
I mean more of the story, which is Ash's biggest
song like a year later started to blow up, which
to me is a real testament to like, what's the
story on that. Well, the story is that it was
being underserved by a label, which is true of most
music in the world, you know, even great labels.

Speaker 8 (47:59):
It's like it's starless.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Songs didn't even get on like New Music Friday on
Spotify when it came out. This was back in the
period of time where I felt like playlists were kind
of the the top dog and using discovery. Now it's
not true anymore, but it was, and so it just
was like underserved. Everybody that would hear it was like,
this is an awesome song. I'd go to her shows
and like that. Everybody loved the song, but it just

(48:23):
wasn't exposed. And then it got amazing sync in a film,
a Netflix film, and so then it was really had
good exposure.

Speaker 8 (48:30):
I mean, people still had to do legwork. They still
had to like.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
Like the scene in the movie and go look up
the song, but they did, you know, and then it
started to get really popular.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Are thinks the main driver now is that the no
no they help?

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Yeah, sinks totally help, but people are everybody's viewership is
still fright there.

Speaker 7 (48:46):
Is feels like the main driver is rap beef yes,
And I think that you know there. I think Phineas
and I both went into this going like we know
what they're gonna do with.

Speaker 8 (48:59):
This project, Like, yeah, they're gonna think where Stevi Nixon.

Speaker 7 (49:03):
Also, we're like, there isn't a lot of what we
created with the Favors isn't happening a ton like almost
like there's like a really specific lane that we stepped
into that like we knew there was gonna be the
Fleetwood Mac comparisons and all of that, and I that's okay.

(49:24):
I think I really like. It wasn't until Little Mess
came out that we were like, oh oh, because we
both we were in New York doing press before Little
Mess came out. We're sitting on your couch and we
were like, people are probably gonna, you know, create a
narrative for us. How do we feel about that? And

(49:46):
how are we going to respond, and we were very
casual about it and we were very like, you know,
it'll be what it's going to be.

Speaker 9 (49:52):
Yeah, we'll see how it goes. And then little mess came.

Speaker 8 (49:54):
Out and it was like yeah, it was extreme.

Speaker 9 (49:57):
An initial like sort of uh yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
I think that the difference is like, if we were
both single, I'd probably feel like no desire to defend anybody,
do you know what I mean. I'd be like, well, whatever,
we are just friends. But they can think whatever they
want whatever. But I think the fact that we're both
in like really long committed relationships, not only do I

(50:22):
have a desire to like be like, no, you guys
don't understand John Ash's fiance. I love John like that
everything is everything is great. We love that guy. Claude
and I are great. Like not only do I have
that element of it, but I also think that like
I don't want people to think that we're scumbags when
we're not, you know what I mean, Like, I think
that's kind of more than any Yeah, I think that

(50:44):
more than anything else. You're like no, no, no, no, don't
think that we're like bad people or you know, not
that not that you're a bad person. If you have
an affair, but don't think we're don't think we're doing
an illicit thing.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
It's more fun too, by the way that it's not, well,
it's more it's definitely safer.

Speaker 8 (51:00):
It's definitely like gonna make our careers longer.

Speaker 9 (51:04):
You know what I mean, Like, there's no maybe our
lives longer.

Speaker 8 (51:07):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
I was having some covers with somebody the other day
about somebody else that I will not name, and I
was like, oh, yeah, I mean they're you know, they
don't talk. And they were like why And I was like, well,
they had an affair. And they were like why don't
they talk?

Speaker 8 (51:18):
And I was like, what do you mean they had
an affair? Dude?

Speaker 2 (51:20):
Like there is no like, it is so rare to
do a destructive thing and then salvage any form of
your relationship after that, you know what I mean. Like, yeah,
even if you're the people having an affigure like that,
you're it's gonna be bad, you know what I mean? Yeah,
but yeah, I mean again, it's like I think somebody
said they were like, it's you guys, but it's not

(51:42):
you guys, Like it really is like the it's the
same to me as your music video persona Right. Ash
stars in an Ash music video. She's tap dancing, there
are backup dancers whatever. There's like an interesting narrative thing.

Speaker 8 (51:56):
It's not really her, but it is really her.

Speaker 9 (51:58):
Right, It's kind of like how we are when we're live.

Speaker 8 (52:01):
That's exactly what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
Like, Yeah, the Hudson music video, which I love, is
like we're running around New York. We're holding hands, we're
into each other, We're dancing on top of a chest set.
Like it's not us, it is us because we're singing
the song and it's us in the video and we're friends.
But it's like it's it's fulfilling and narrative kind of
like we're talking about in all things. It's like you're

(52:23):
really trying to like show people the narrative that the
song is articulating.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Yeah, one last break and we're back with Phineas and
Ash of the Favors. I want to pick back up
the Hudson threat, but I want but before moving too that,
I want to go back to like what you said earlier,
which is that like you you step, you guys both
step squarely into like a genre. Yeah, I was shocked

(52:50):
how little that's actually happened, like outside of like Johnny
Cash and like June Carter, I've done some stuff or
like Tammy Wynette and like George Jones, like you know,
but there's it's like it's a lot of country, and
then it's like Fleetwood, Mandi Gaga and Tony Bennett Lady
like like straight up you well yeah, yeah, right, yeah, right,
there's those, there's those and yeah, and then there's like

(53:11):
one off do you know, like one offs like you know, but.

Speaker 7 (53:14):
Yeah, like Islands in the Stream, Yeah, exactly, the duets
that have been famously famous, but but a.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Whole album like like in the Civil Wars and Fleetwood
Mac and you know, there's probably others that. I mean,
like this is like the Marias are in that boat
right now. There's like Josh and Maria both singing and writing,
and she's really the singing, you know, ninety percent of it.

Speaker 7 (53:40):
But that was another important thing I think to Phineas
and I was we didn't want it to just be
like a duet record, you know, we wanted to be
sort of like parallel singing with each other and either
in unison or harmony. But if we're in harmony, you're
not really sure who's doing the harmony and who's doing
the lead, like that was an important piece of us

(54:02):
creating it.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
I'm not even sure you sure who's doing that like
in the songs, like who's doing what narratively unless you
really focus maybe on like the pounds, but if you
just sort of were just kind of letting it wash over.

Speaker 7 (54:13):
There's a crazy TikTok that went viral of us singing
Till Forever Falls Apart and the camera's only on me,
but it's you singing, and everyone's like, oh my god,
I thought she is the like the boyish, But yeah,
I think it's a cool We do blend really nicely too.
That that was like a stroke of luck being good

(54:34):
friends that sound good together.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
You know, Yeah, how did the whole thing come together?
And how did like the favors? How did like you know,
obviously you guys have collaborated to degree before.

Speaker 7 (54:47):
Well, I mean, the real impetus was I was taking
a pretty big like musical hiatus, uh and was very
unsure about returning to making music again, and for for
loads of reasons, for out reasons, for you know, being

(55:11):
a little disillusioned by the music industry, or entertainment industry,
but also just like not having dealt with serious trauma
in my.

Speaker 9 (55:20):
Life, YadA YadA.

Speaker 7 (55:21):
So I took I was like Goodbye World in February.

Speaker 9 (55:26):
Of twenty twenty three, yep.

Speaker 7 (55:31):
And like two months into that, like therapy and whatnot,
I started like what can I be creative in other ways?
And I started writing this like script that was about
a band, and I was like, what they like, imagine
there's these two characters and they're going on this whatever

(55:55):
we want to start it by blah blah blah blah
blah blah. And then I was like, I know nothing
about writing scripts. For one, so you're an idiot. And
for two, I've never been in a band. So if
I want to be a writer, if I should read more,
and I need to start a band and like probably
fulfill that.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
I've written some scripts to and I've read so few
of them that like when I'm writing, I'm like exterior, I.

Speaker 8 (56:19):
Guess like like.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
I'm like god light, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
I always jokes anytime anyone's like are you going to
write a book? Ever, I'm like I'd have to read
one first, Like like there's like like I'm good at
making music because I love listening to music, you know
what I mean, like, yeah, sorry, that's the thing I
love Alison.

Speaker 7 (56:39):
I sort of was like, that's a dumb idea. Why
am I trying to do that? And then I hit
Phineas and was like, hear me out? You know, do
you want to try this thing with me? And it
was such an immediate yes.

Speaker 9 (56:53):
Do you want to start a band? I was like,
hear me out.

Speaker 7 (56:56):
We start a band and we we put out one
album or whatever we write, we cut, that's the album.
We put it out, play a week or two a
show and call it a day. And you know, he
replied all caps like yes please, and then this solves

(57:17):
all my problems, which is really sweet. And six months
later we were making the album.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
What made you so receptive to it at that point
because you, in my mind, you'd collaborated with more people
than you like when I went to back, was like, yeah.

Speaker 8 (57:33):
Not that ba.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Actually the collaboratord that as many people as I thought,
And so it.

Speaker 9 (57:35):
Is, you know, like why do you take a chance?

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Uh love ash like loved you know the idea of
getting to work with her more.

Speaker 8 (57:44):
It sounded so fun.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
I think it was so kind of like even though
it wasn't, it felt so sort of like clearly conceived.

Speaker 8 (57:54):
I was like, oh, I can picture that.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Obviously I pictured you know, you can't like I didn't
picture the twelve songs we ended up with and whatever.
But I was like, oh, I can see that. I
can see loving that, I can see you thinking that's great.
And it was also like one of those things where
like the other rule is like say yes to the
thing you'd be jealous of if somebody else did it.

Speaker 8 (58:15):
You know, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
I mean like that's been you know, not to toot
our own horn, but like the last year of kind
of like when it's been wrapping up and I've told
some people about it, they're like, damn, yeah, that's really cool,
I think because it just scratches a lot of like
the itch of why all of us do this. Like
it's kind of like the album is called The Dream,

(58:36):
but like the dream that we all kind of had
in like high school was like, dude, if me and
my best friends were in this band and then we
got to play whatever, you know, Austin City Limits or something,
and like, yeah, you make these sort of compromises along,
like like the you know has it been a complete

(58:58):
dream come true that I've gotten to like do all
this stuff with my sister.

Speaker 8 (59:02):
Oh my god. Yes, it's been the best thing in
the world. And I love working with her. I'll work
with her until I die.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
I love working with her, to touring with her all
those years, I didn't have the mental capacity to picture
that growing, you know what I mean, when I'm fifteen,
Billi's eleven, right, I'm not like.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
Dude, no one's.

Speaker 8 (59:22):
Well, it's just like too hard to imagine.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
If somebody said, like, would that be cool to you,
I'd be like, of course that'd be cool to me.

Speaker 8 (59:27):
I didn't know that was an option. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
But what I like, I always joke like my high
school dreams were like I want my band to open
for a band that plays the fond of Theater in
LA just like twelve hundred people.

Speaker 8 (59:38):
That's like how big my dreams were. They're very small.
Sounds awesome, you know.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
And again, so I think I think telling people over
the past year like, well, yeah, and I like, are
going to start a band and it's got a band name,
and we're just going to do like cool one off
shows kind of We're not going to like hit the
road hard. We're going to do like just some shows,
and it's been really fun, and so I think people
in there it's the same way I felt when I

(01:00:02):
when she invited me to do it, I was like, Oh,
that sounds fun and cool. And then to be honest,
like everybody I've played the record for, whether it's like
people in the label business or like you know, like
Paul Cartwright who played the strings on the album, like
they really I think that we had so much fun
making it that they just get it, like they hear

(01:00:23):
it and they're like, oh, yeah, like it. It's taken
no translating time. I've been making this analogy to Ash
for a few months now that like what I've tried
to do several times in my career is like the
music equivalent of like when you go to a fancy
restaurant and you're not quite sure what you're eating, but
it's good, right. They're like, there's an emulsifier and this

(01:00:45):
you're and like you end up eating like two dollars.
There's like a doll up of this and like a
strange cracker that looks like a daisy and.

Speaker 8 (01:00:52):
You're like wow, and you take a bite and you're like,
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Even sure what that is, and I think I like
it and I know this is nice and interesting, but
it takes the time. And then maybe a month later
you're like that restaurant was really good, Like that was crazy, but.

Speaker 8 (01:01:05):
It's such an adjustment yep.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
And I always joke that, like what we've made is
like this is spaghetti and it's marinera and there is
fresh basil, and you're like, I love spaghetti, dude, Like
there's a kind of a like straight but it might
not be the most original, never been done before thing,
but it's like you're you like this, like this is
jeans and a T shirt, Like this is.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
It has been done, so like I said, it was surprised,
Like so it felt like it had been done much
more than it hadn't hadn't. But the band thing, of course,
has been done. But it also feels like the band
thing is a bit of a it's like we're a
little far away from it, you know, at this point,
it doesn't feel like if you.

Speaker 7 (01:01:40):
Want to be successful, don't start a band, Like no
one would have probably recommended it, but good thing, we
were doing it in total secret. You know, we didn't
you know, tell any in one of the public We had,
didn't tell our managers. We were very very private about
the whole thing. And really the people that Phineas brought
in to the secret was David and Ricky, you know,

(01:02:04):
who became the.

Speaker 8 (01:02:06):
Part of it.

Speaker 9 (01:02:06):
Yeah, and it was so safe.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
And the other magic of a band name too, is
it takes a little bit of the identity away in
a fun way where you're like, oh, like, are you
guys the Favors And you're like yes, and you're like,
is are David and rat part of the Favors? You're like, yeah,
Like it's a band, you know what I mean, Like
the like it's sort of yeah, it's us on the cover,
but it's like that's the fun part about a band
in general, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Yeah, No, absolutely, The Hudson We've talked a lot about
la kind of feel like geographically and you're in Nashville,
and I feel like some of that was brought to bear.
So The Hudson is a bit of a one of them.
It's a gorgeous song on the album Love It.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
There's a lot of New York on this record. I
mean Lake George is in New York. Times Square, Jesus
is New York. Home Sweet Home is a bar on
the Lower East Side, So it's a lot of New York.
It's more New York than Lam.

Speaker 7 (01:02:56):
But it's interesting because we wrote them you know album
and did it all and in La and it does
have this very New York identity to it. And I
think like Phineas and I both have a very like
sweet and romantic, you know relationship with New York. Like

(01:03:17):
my first trip to New York, I was like falling
in love with a guy that was an alcoholic and like,
oh my god, it was like not very good to.

Speaker 9 (01:03:26):
Me, and like and then that's it. The city became
that for a while.

Speaker 7 (01:03:31):
And then I went with someone I was in a
good relationship with and I loved, and it became you
know so And I think similarly, you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
Had told me that my school girlfriend moved away to
New York to go to college, and so I had
such a like young and immature feeling of like choosing
this pert, you know, choosing this place over choosing like
any semblance of a you know, relationship With me, I
was like, oh my god, you're moving away from your
whole life and and me as part of it.

Speaker 9 (01:03:58):
And New York is your David's brother.

Speaker 8 (01:04:00):
Oh, I was like.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Mad at New York, the city, mad at it, you know,
And then I'd like go to New York in that
chip on your shoulder way of like this isn't so special,
you know which of course it is, dude, New York
is the best. Yeah, but like, well the best is strong.

Speaker 8 (01:04:15):
It's amazing. It is an amazing city.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
And I think that, like again, it's a testament to
like our relationships with people informing our relationships with places.

Speaker 4 (01:04:25):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
I mean, like Ash is my Nashville friend. Like I
go to Nashville, Like, yeah, I get to see Ash.
Like I don't know how I feel about Nashville. I
just know I like the person that lives there, so
I get to hang out with her. It's like, you know,
these places are informed by your history with them. La
for me, California for Ash, Like I grew up there.
So it's like my whole life is informed the way

(01:04:46):
I feel about LA. Yeah, you know, so it's easy
to write about LA. It's where I've lived my whole life.

Speaker 8 (01:04:51):
But yeah, New York is a kind of a ghost story.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
And you were at least partially raised San Jose. Yeah, yeah,
fully raised San.

Speaker 7 (01:04:59):
Jose, fully raised and mine times there till nineteen and
then I went to college in Boston, so and then
Nashville was my first like pit Stock.

Speaker 9 (01:05:09):
But after college, you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Still do you feel connected to San Jose.

Speaker 7 (01:05:13):
Still California nor you know, no, none of my family
is there anymore. They all left and people divorced and
family died, and you know, there's not like a sweetness
to it anymore. La feels more like home in California,

(01:05:33):
and now I live there for eight years. Yeah, so
and my like two of my closest friends live here
and there's Phineas and like, yeah, it's a different I
have a different relationship with La now than the old home.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
But also I mean an album, there's kind of like
the three there's like the three places that you just
keep having to go to, Like we had to go
to New York and do a bunch of Romo, which
is fun, but like somewhere you have to go to
go to, like London, which we just did too. There's
like it is it is like there's no right place
to live when you're making an album because you to
go to the other place.

Speaker 9 (01:06:10):
Don't have to go to Nashville.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
I guess if you're not making a country record, you
kind of don't go to Nashville. But it's the same
Dell Or You're you're always kind of pulled off to
do some other thing.

Speaker 7 (01:06:20):
But you know, all the storytellers in Nashville like want
us there, Like.

Speaker 8 (01:06:24):
We should go. Yeah, at some point.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
I want to ask about one more song and then
and then I want to ask you guys to play
the Hudson.

Speaker 8 (01:06:31):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
I am ordinary people. It's an outlier on the records.
Or and you guys went full jazz, which was like awesome.

Speaker 7 (01:06:39):
I loved it the first song, like I you brought
in this and I brought on the Hudson.

Speaker 9 (01:06:45):
But we sat on your.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
Couch and wrote ordinary people in like now like my memories,
Like we sat on the couch writing ordinary people. Wall
Claudia like put on her Halloween costume. Wow, before we
going to a Halloween party.

Speaker 9 (01:06:59):
Yeah, baking in olive cake for us or something.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
That sounds like the scene of the song.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
But I mean that was the part about making the
whole record was it was little vignette after little vignette
of like.

Speaker 8 (01:07:12):
Oh, let's all go sit by the pool, and.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
Like, you know, it had a real kind of atmosphere,
which I liked because sometimes like the thing that has
kept me out of traditional music studios, it's like, yes,
there is an atmosphere, of course, but like it is,
it is different from real life, and I like the
atmosphere of like, yeah, we're my dog is in the
living room with me, and I'm kind of on the

(01:07:35):
couch thinking about that and getting my head straight. So yeah,
the jazz song, I think, was like what if we
wrote a little jazz song and then kind of did
that cal in response like maybe it's cold outside thing and.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
Yeah, you crack up during.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
On mike, which was fun, and it was a live take. Yeah,
and then we re recorded it and I was like, no,
the live take is so great. Just put out the
live take. But yeah, I mean that I think that
that song, which is totally an outlier, is sort of
a like this can be whatever we want and the
only thing that we're trying to care about is quality control. Right,

(01:08:14):
if we'd written a really bad jazz song, we'd be like,
all right, well we'll cut that, fine, we'll put that,
we'll take that off. But it was just kind of
had like a joy to it that. I was like,
this is cute and.

Speaker 9 (01:08:24):
Kind of literally giggle.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
It's kind of a bite of ginger, you know, it's like, oh,
it's a little palate cleanser in the middle of this record.
That's pretty Like that's not a heartbreaking song at all.
That's a very sweet, lovey, dovey, super sweet song. Yeah,
what's that line of like you say we're no good
for each other, you're too selfish for a lover, which
I think is so funny. And oh and then uh,
don't worry, I'll be early. I'm not ready.

Speaker 8 (01:08:47):
It's cute too, but I'll wait. Yeah, I'll just wait.
But I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
It was just like a really cute like that again,
Like so in that fictional vein of like these are
like who are these characters and what are these moments?
And how do we build this kind of you know aesthetically.

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
I want, I wanted. It made me. I fell in
love with those characters.

Speaker 9 (01:09:07):
Cool, I'm not you know, I love them. Yeah, I
think they're really special.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
There's a there's a a lyric on the Hudson she
want to ask you guys to play that like to me,
like just I didn't hear it the first couple of
times I listened, but there's like, you know, after a
handful of times, I don't know what I believe. Have
faith in me? Or I don't know what I believe
have faith in me.

Speaker 8 (01:09:34):
I put my trust only truth.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
The only truth I know is you, the only truth
I knows You.

Speaker 8 (01:09:38):
Great Ash line man, that that's you. Yeah, the whole
song is Ash. It's so great.

Speaker 7 (01:09:43):
Well second versus a Phineas but the you know, my
couplet on the balcony, I catch a I gave you
my coat to sit on the balcony. I'd catch a
cold if it keeps you. That's not the most Phineas
ass lyric.

Speaker 8 (01:09:57):
It's a great line too, but such such great lyrics.

Speaker 7 (01:10:02):
Yeah, I like heard a joke, not joke.

Speaker 9 (01:10:06):
That's like every great song is a worship song. And
I was like whoa.

Speaker 7 (01:10:12):
And then they were like kind of talking about the
Hudson in that context, and I was like, oh shit,
we do say I don't know what I believe.

Speaker 9 (01:10:20):
Please have faith in me. The only truth I.

Speaker 3 (01:10:21):
Know is you.

Speaker 8 (01:10:22):
Yeah, it's kind of religious.

Speaker 9 (01:10:24):
Could sing it in church maybe, yeah, sure, But yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:10:30):
That was like the one of the first lines as
played for me was like the like.

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
The trees were bearing naked and so we.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
And I was like, oh, that's such a like that
has so much feeling to me in it and it
kind of comes out of nowhere, which.

Speaker 8 (01:10:42):
I really liked.

Speaker 7 (01:10:43):
Two old strangers sharing really personal things. I was like,
I'm a good Songwriter's that.

Speaker 9 (01:10:50):
I was really proud of that one.

Speaker 8 (01:10:51):
That's a great yeah on your Paul Simon. Shit, it's
awesome that you know.

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
That made me think of still crazy after all these years.
You know, I saw an old love on the street.
You know, it's like insane, you know, but I mean
obviously wasn't like but it's just was like, oh my gosh,
this is this is really there's just yeah, amazing stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
Thank you.

Speaker 8 (01:11:10):
Should we close it out with the song, it'd be great.
Let's do it great.

Speaker 6 (01:11:14):
Thanks you will lay for the last train home. We
had away losing track of time. The trees were bare
and they get and so we too, old strangers sharing

(01:11:39):
really purse and all things.

Speaker 3 (01:11:44):
Lost. The sun is send on the Hudson. He touched
my head and kissed you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
Then.

Speaker 5 (01:11:58):
Said you forgot how good I found on your lambs.

Speaker 3 (01:12:05):
I thank god.

Speaker 9 (01:12:06):
I hope you man.

Speaker 4 (01:12:12):
I don't know where I belong Iho n Noney's gone.
I've got nothing bad.

Speaker 3 (01:12:26):
I don't know what I believe. Please have faith in me.

Speaker 4 (01:12:33):
You only truth I know is you.

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
Took my com Sit on the balcony. The cats are cold.
If it keeps you all.

Speaker 7 (01:12:54):
Lake was frogs in and so will we.

Speaker 3 (01:13:01):
We won't know. We won't make it to screaking.

Speaker 5 (01:13:09):
I don't know where along ohout even known as gone.
I've got nothing bad. I don't know would I believe?
Please have faith in me. You'll meet choose?

Speaker 3 (01:13:31):
I know issue, It's me back here year from now.
Maybe then it works out. I'm trying not to think
value and you a calm December and come the storm.

Speaker 5 (01:13:54):
Fall back into my house, walk the hadsome back to.
I don't know where all belong about hell, the known
is gone.

Speaker 3 (01:14:11):
I've got nothing my you. I don't know what I believe.
Please have faceing. The only choose I know?

Speaker 4 (01:14:27):
Is you? The only choose?

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
Hello? Is you.

Speaker 4 (01:14:40):
The only truth? A no issue.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
An episode of Description, you'll find a link to a
playlist of our favorite songs from Phineas and from Ash,
as well as the Favorites album be sure to check
out YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast to see
all of our video interviews, and be sure to follow
us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. You can
follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is
produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from

(01:15:16):
Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Holliday.
Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you
love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to
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and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate.

Speaker 8 (01:15:38):
And review us on your podcast app. Our theme mus
Expect Henny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.