August 13, 2024 • 50 mins
Tinashe’s changing what success in pop music can look like. Back in 2014 her song "2 On" featuring Schoolboy Q hit big on Billboard. With major success looming, Tinashe released projects that missed the charts but gained her a strong, loyal fanbase. In 2019 she left her major label to go independent. And judging from her massive online following today, her fans have stuck behind her.
In April, she dropped the highly meme-able track "Nasty" that many are calling the song of the summer. “Nasty” comes from her album Quantum Baby, the second part in a trilogy of new albums.
Justin Richmond spoke to Tinashe from Amazon Studio 126 about her new albums and what it took to go independent. They also talk about her role in The Polar Express and working with Tom Hanks.
You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite Tinashe songs HERE.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin Tinache's changing what a pop music career can look like.
Back in twenty fourteen, her song two On featuring Schoolboy
Q became a huge hit. It was her very first
single from her very first album and seems like a
clear indication that she was poised for more chart success. Instead,
(00:37):
something maybe more interesting happened. Instead of dominating the pop market,
she released projects that missed the Billboard chart but gained
her an incredibly strong and loyal fan base. She even
left her label in twenty nineteen to go independent and
brought her fans along with her, and now ten years later,
has her second Billboard hit with the viral sensation Nasty.
(00:59):
Nasty comes from her new album Quantum Baby, the second
part in a trilogy of albums that, to my ears,
sounds like her best work yet. I spoke to Tina
from Amazon's Studio one twenty six about these trio of albums,
including her big summer hit and the time she spent
weeks filming The Polar Express with Tom Hanks. This is
(01:23):
broken record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman.
Here's my conversation with Tinche Yo. Congratulations on like everything,
Yeah thing is crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I know, I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
We kind of set this up like a while ago.
I want to say, like before the song was going
to do it. You've been doing incredible work for so long.
It's like it's incredible to see the payoff.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Yeah, it feels good time having fun.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, yeah, what was Maybe we can just start with
Nasty and yeah what I guess, or maybe let's just
start with the new part two in general, like how
were you part one in part two of Baby Angel,
Baby Angel? Pronounce it a baby Angel, Baby Angel, Like
(02:17):
how did you kind of make both at the same time?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah, well I initially went in with the intention of
making a full length project, but breaking it up into
parts to give people enough time to really chew on
each piece of material. I think, you know, we live
in this day and age, it's very quick to consume,
and I think as an artist, you know, you spend
so much time working on the songs and curating them
(02:43):
so perfectly and listening to them over and over and
over again. There's something kind of sad every time you
release like a full length project and you're like.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Well, what about this track and this track and this track?
You know, like people get caught up.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Obviously, the singles get their light, they get their shine,
they get their little focused track.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Moment or a music video or something.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
But there's usually so many other songs on a record
that you want to like celebrate or you know, let
them have their flowers. So I thought it would be
smart to break it up into three different parts, seven
songs each. So I initially started working on just like
a huge batch.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, so you wanted people to be able to digest yeah,
something in.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, just each individual batch chunk.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
So then how many how many songs did you wind
up recording?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
A lot?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Every project, I end up recording a lot of material usually,
so I don't know, there's not really like a set number.
But I would say it was getting into like the
I would say fifty, I would say fifty fifty records
maybe wow.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
But those aren't all like fully fleshed out ideas.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
They're usually like I'll start a song, make a verse hook,
call that a song, you know, Yeah, decide if I'm
fucking with.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
It, I want to change it.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
We'll take me to the inception of stuff. So like,
how do you how do you work with it? Like
there's some great producers on here, obviously Nasty's Ricky reed,
but you got no such thing. Yeah, he had some
incredible cuts on the part too.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, Andy produce talks to me nice on part one.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
So I feel like that's like a great connection of
and also kind of shows how the cohesion between the
first project the second project, and also the evolution of
the from the first project to the second project, you know,
because they're both the same, but you know they're different,
they have their own personalities.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
So how do you how do you like lock in
with the producer and kind of like tell me the
process of like who starts, like are you are you
going to listen through? Listen for some for tracks, listen for.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, and then I mean it kind of depends on
who I'm working with or kind of the mood of
the day. A lot of times will start from scratch,
depending on the producer. If they're more comfortable with like
playing beats that they've kind of made, then like that's
cool too, because I will definitely take an idea, start
something and then kind of go back in and like
make tweaks and make.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Edits that way.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
But I also love starting from scratch if people are
down for that, So you know, just kind of starting
usually with like a bpm a tempo, something that feels inspiring,
something I want to dance to, something that feels different
and unique as well.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
That's something in that moment feels Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, it feels right, it feels inspiring.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Is there something off Part two that started that way?
It's kind of like was all a card to you?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah? I mean I feel like every record was, honestly,
thinking back on it, nasty definitely, red flags mmmm yeah,
so many, all of them. Okay, getting no sleep. He
didn't cook that one in the room though. That was
more like we had a session the first day. I
told him what I wanted. He said, I'll come back
with something tomorrow. So it was still like it was
(05:47):
still special, you know, Taylor tailor made for you?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Spend a lot more time on it, given you have
so many like great deep cuts on an album. M hm.
And that was kind of the impetus for maybe breaking
these these up a bit. How do you go about
deciding once you have a set of songs, what's what
the single is going to be?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, this, I may actually get some feedback on the
single because I do want to hear what other people
are into, but not necessarily the songs on the album itself.
Like I'll definitely refer to which ones I'm looking back
on and constantly playing to see which songs are like
(06:28):
the keepers. But sometimes the singles is just like playing
it for a few people and you can tell.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Sometimes it's the one that.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Sparks the idea for a music video, like, oh, I
could do this really cool concept.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I'd love to give this a moment.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Sometimes it's just highlighting up record that I feel like
would otherwise be just lost in the shuffle.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
There's not like a huge rhymor reason mind.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
It so, But there are some songs at the end
of the day you'll set aside as being like maybe
you have a hunch these could or.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah, just because people are usually excited about it.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
People in the studio, yeah yeah, or play things in
your life or whatnot. Any thing you can point as
to why you feel like Nasty is doing what it's doing.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I mean I think a lot of things.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Probably, I think the fact that the song is very catchy,
it's easy to get in your head. You can hear
it one time, you kind of remember it, or you
kind of know what's what it's about. I think the
simplicity of it lends itself to being a hit song.
I think it doesn't really sound like too much other
(07:37):
stuff on the radio right now or like in the
universe right now. I think it has its own vibe
with kind of the minor chord section going into like
the major chord hook. So I think that stands out
in a way. I think it's memeable. You know. It's
got these like funny, funny lines that are like is
somebody gonna match my freak? Or I having a nasty girl?
You know that people are just finding these little memorable moments.
(08:02):
And I also just think like time and place, like
you know, just sometimes the universe just the perfect storm
of everything coming together, everything else that's out right now
where I'm at my career, the fact that it's summer,
you know.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I think there's just so many things that go into it.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
The lines part about the meaning of life, even like
you deliver it is really like your delivery on that yeah,
so interesting, even like I need somebody with a good technique.
It's just it makes you, It makes you feel something different,
you know. I mean you're like, oh, it's just like
there's a you could tell that there was really almost
sounds like a I mean in a way, it's almost
(08:44):
like maybe the way like an actor reads lines. Yeah,
treated I don't know that you did that.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
But as a listener, there was definitely a purposefulness of
the approach to the verse. Like how I said it,
I really wanted it to be in like a conversational
part of my voice, and so it felt very in
your face and really like I was just talking to
you and not like I was trying too hard to
like perform it or sing it or do it in
(09:10):
my singing voice or any particular voice. Because sometimes easy
to do that too, you know, like perform it in
like a sexier tone or like you can do so
many different ways to make it interesting if you will.
But I really wanted it to be like in a talky,
conversational kind of tone.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Is that like an intentional set out in the studio?
And then like, I guess, how do you get vocal feedback? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I also don't really get vocal feedback.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
I usually it's just me and my engineer recording everything
and yeah, just doing whatever feels right. I actually don't
like vocal feedback. Every time there's like a vocal producer
in the room. I'm like, this is so annoying. Let
me sing it how I want to see it. The
initial reason was because I'd recorded it as a freestyle
(09:56):
and I had that tone. So listening back to the
freestyle that I'd recorded, I was like, that sounds good.
I tried to mimic it, and it didn't come across
that same way. So I was very specific in trying
to like mimic it the way that I just was
saying when I was messing around.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Wait, so what part of exactly was a freestyle?
Speaker 3 (10:16):
The whole I've been a nasty girl, nasty and is
somebody gonna match my freak? Is somebody gonna match my freak?
Is somebody gonna match my nasty?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
The whole thing? The uh, the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
I have it.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
I have it in my computer on photo booth.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Wait, is that what you were? It wasn't like a
voicemail you got you hopped on photo booth.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah. Because I was driving in my car and the
music was playing off my phone, so I had to
record myself. So I had my laptop and the passengers like,
open it up, very sick. I wasn't filming myself.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
It was just filming the audio then Yeah, how.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Much is that a part of your process freestyling?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, I feel like that gives me the best product.
So I always try to be very purposeful about following
my instinct and making sure that I record my initial
instinct on a b That's really important too, because a
lot of times I just think that that's your best
idea for some reason.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Just is so recording things going back to hear what
the initial like, Yeah, what really spoke to you initially? Yeah,
and then yeah, not exaggerating but building on them yeah hmm.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
And a lot of times either there will be words already,
like with Nasty there were actual words, tangible words, but
sometimes it's just melodies.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Sometimes it's gibberish.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Sometimes it's a word here and there, mumbo jumbo, and
you kind of have to like excavate the lyrics. But yeah,
I think that's usually how I write nearly every song.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Wow, that's really cool.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, you just kind of felt like, yeah, well I
really love that, Like West Coast kind of chilled but
still makes you want to dance. It's that pocket that
like everyone wants to bob their head. Everyone could kind
of catch that beat. It's not too up, it's not
too slow. Yeah, And I've been DJing a lot lately
and there's always like a lot of songs in that
(12:08):
like ninety nine one hundred bpm that I love to play.
I don't know because I grew up on the West Coast,
but it was like sweet Spot.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
What are those tracks?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I don't know, like anything like Ti Dolla Sign or
like YG you know, like that it's giving that laid back,
effortless bop energy and wanting to kind of start with
that pocket.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Okay, dope. When did you officially move to California?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
How old were seven?
Speaker 1 (12:34):
You were seven?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Did it feel? How was coming out here? Like? Because
you were obviously from a young age plugged into the arts,
plugged into music, digesting things that you're taking in. How
did how to moving here change the way you you
listened to things and felt things and what you wanted
to do.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
I feel like the West Coast has such a specific
style of just culture and sound, whether it be like
how the culture of creating music, you know, being in
that culture from really young age, being in the studios,
you know, seeing how songs were made, you know how
producers worked, you know, just the culture of chilling in
(13:14):
La and the laid backness of it all. And I
think that has a lot to do with like approach,
subject matter, PPM style, just different things that I tend
to like, you know, growing up here has a very
clear vibe in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, it's hard to explain I think to people that
don't grow I grew up here too. It's like and
there is a certain cadence and a swim rhythm. I
guess a rhythm to life here, and I guess it's
maybe like you can explain to New Yorker because they
also have a rhythm that they're plugged.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Into the different one, but they feel.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Very much and feels superior.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Sometimes, But but I do think like like coming like
you know, obviously the legacy of kind of like that
West Coast swing that goes into like a yg My
crazy life and all these others like I love And
now that you're saying that, I can kind of hear
that because you do have a unique.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Style, Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
And it feels like because Tuon it was your first single, Yeah,
turned out to be a big Yeah, definitely, and it
feels like you kind of came fully formed.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah, well it had that pocket too, so I feel
like that's another reference point always like going back to
being like, how do we you know that there was
some magic in that what was that?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
You know, what set that song apart?
Speaker 3 (14:37):
And I think that part of it is that identity,
having that kind of its own identity, its own vibe,
its own cadence, And yeah, I don't know, I just
remember like growing up and going to dance it, you know,
just being around at the house parties and stuff like that.
I think it's just very visceral and you want to
be a part of it and you want to just
like have that energy. So going into my entire career,
(15:00):
I kind of always had in the back of my
head like every project has a couple of those little
tracks sprinkled in, from back to my first mixtape, Like
I have a record on there called Chainless that's like
the super West Coast, just like we shot it on Fairfax,
like shot the music video. It's just kind of funny
to see how everything comes very full circle, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah, Yeah, you've stayed based here your whole career. Yeah right, yeah,
how do you You're just I'm just thinking you shot your
very first video from your mixtape on Fair Facts. Yeah,
you're a very different stage in your career in life
at this point today.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, I was just driving in traffic in the exact
same location where I shot that video.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Like wow, I'm just dripping about, like how like how
you must experience a city so differently.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, I don't know, it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I think the evolution and the journey is all these
little moments along the way really make it so much
more meaningful and impactful to be where I am now
and to kind of see firsthand you can you can
compare very easily like the then and now, and I
think that that makes it really sweet.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We'll be right back with more from
a conversation with Tina. We're back with Tinache. I want
to talk a bit about your journey to being like
an independent artist or your journey since becoming an independent artist.
(16:28):
It's interesting that you seem to kind of be ahead
of the curve a bit on that.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
I don't know, it's the queriesst of me, Like we're
always trying to move.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Ahead of the curve.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
I guess I always trying to see about corners and
I was just.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Trying to make your own path, you know, carve your
own way.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Because it's like you left your label in twenty nineteen, yeah,
and so five years later it seems to be like,
like I just saw today Neo is going independent. Really
like this is a real sort of time, a real
pivotal like kind of like a boiling point in music
(17:08):
where artists are realizing what they can do for themselves
and you've got like a five year head start on it.
Can you take me through the decision to go independent?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
I think for me it The thing about the independent
route that I you know, try to emphasize or keep
in mind is that I do think I wouldn't necessarily
ride out the gate be like everyone should be independent.
I think it's like a very case by case basis.
I feel like I had a very lucky perfect storm
of like having the experience with the major label that
(17:40):
kind of sowed a lot of seeds for me, and
then like you know, establishing a fan base that was
very dedicated and like super loyal, so that when I
was able to make that step, they were able to
go with me and follow me and still continue to
support me. Because I do think the independent grind is
super difficult, and so I think it's it's more what's
(18:04):
really important is being able to tailor your career specifically
for like what works for you. Because the reason I
went into bed personally was because I just like mentally
was not.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Enjoying being in the.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Place where I couldn't make all of the creative financial,
you know, timing decisions when it came to my music.
And I think it works for some people. You know,
you know it's a complicated relationship.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Sure, yeah, but I mean like it must have been
because you know, like there's a world it must not
have even been label specific, or you could tell me
if it was, because it's like, I'm sure you could
have just like found a different relationship that worked.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
You mean, like a different record late.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I wasn't interested in that at that point because I
really wanted to, I guess, prove to myself that my
decisions were still the right decisions. And I was very
wary of adding more cooks to the kitchen, if you will,
I think it you know, like when you're working with
a bigger team, a bigger machine, you start making little
(19:09):
compromises here and there. It's not necessarily like it's in
your face, and it's very cut and dry, like I'm
making the wrong decision. It's you know, you start listening
to so many different opinions and there's a lot of
outside noise, and I think I really wanted to just
eliminate all of that, go back to my roots, go
back to making music in my house, in my home,
and being the sole decider of like this is the one,
(19:31):
this is what I'm going to do, this is what
I want to put out, and so yeah, it was
just really important for me at the time to make
that decision to like fully embrace.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Being by myself, you know, on a creative front.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Yeah, you had mentioned that it's like, you know, when
you go independent, there's not like some you know, I
mean there's kind of there's not some like predetermined path
like you kind of have to tailor it to you.
That's who you are as an artist and you taste.
So what were some of those early conversations you were
having amongst you know, your team at that point about
(20:07):
what how you could position yourself to be successful?
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yeah, I mean the biggest question mark is always like
how are we going to fund this? So it's there's
big ideas, but without you know, a major label budget.
You're constantly thinking about how are we going to find
the funds, get the funds or you know, like make
the funds.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
You know, like you just have to figure it out.
You get very super.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Smart about how you spread out your financial decisions, where
you spend the money, how you spend the money, looking
for like the tiniest ways to be able to cut
corners to maximize the art itself. And I think for
a couple of years that was definitely something that was
a big focus was just trying to figure out how
do we just keep it going, keep the art coming, keep.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
The music videos coming with the budget that we've got.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
And did you feel like you had to almost step
up the output in a sense.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Of course, because you always have to continue to step
up the output, I think just competing in this environment,
and also as the type of artist that I am,
Like I'm not brand new, so I'm constantly trying to
raise the bar creatively and with my own work.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
So I mean a lot.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Of times when you have like crazier and crazier ideas,
you know, it costs more and more money, so you're
it's just something that you're constantly trying to figure out
where how to negotiate that, like within your own mind.
You know, as an artist, obviously you never want to
compromise your art and you can't, but you have to
figure out how to be crafty sometimes.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Right How how I mean, how did that then impact
the art?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I think I enjoyed it because it was empowering in
a sense. I mean, it was difficult, but it was
empowering to know that all of the output was because
of hard work and great relationships and.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
You know, just the strength if you will.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
So Yeah, I think everything that we did have going
independent really led up to these moments that I'm having now,
really paved the way because I was able to re
establish I think how like my perception within the industry.
I think people respected the fact that I was making
it on my own and that kind of changed I
(22:27):
think how people perceived me.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, I could see that because you know, like obviously
when your first singles too on and it does what
it does, I mean, I'm sure there must have been
some sort of temptation to just sort of slot you
into the pop machinery. Yeah, but very clearly like you
are a different kind of artist.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Well, I don't like being put in a specific box
very much. I tend to break and push against that.
So I feel that initially there were a lot of labels,
whether it was just simple things like genre. Like I
was very opposed to being labeled as like a particular genre,
(23:08):
and still to this day, I don't feel that pressure
as much anymore because I feel like people have an
understanding of like the fact that I do genre hop
and use a lot of inspiration from different things. But
I definitely feel like at the beginning, just a very
visceral reaction to be like, no, not put me in
that box.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
You're right, you know, and they're trying to just sell
you to a certain market.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, but it's so.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Much more nuanced and complicated and layered and colorful than that.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah. Yeah. One one of the things I noticed about
like it was so is listening to that we spent
the last almost year with part one and now getting
the chance to preview Part two, it's refreshing that there's
no features, Like it's nice just to hear you like
(23:54):
straight up you like, you know what I mean, And
I feel like that's something that is I don't know,
it's not it's we don't get a lot of these days.
And I love that you're able to make decisions like that,
Like it's just gonna be you going to work on
a song with the producer and we're only going to
hear from you because I mean you have a real
(24:15):
distinct point of view.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
I mean I love just having the work speak for itself.
And I think that that's what these projects do, which
I really love is that they're simple and the fact
that it's all me. There's not as many like side
quests and different things added to like add flavor or spice.
You know, it's just it's simple and it's all me.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
So that's great, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Do what kind of how do you so if you're
coming from a system where there's like it's more team yeah,
or there's just kind of a larger decision making body. Yeah,
and you kind of scale this way down when you record,
say fifty something songs, Yeah, and you're thinking about, well,
I like these I want to make this into something.
(25:06):
Who are you talking with to sort of figure out
what the what the viue with the move is? Yeah?
Like all these good and ye put them out, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
I mean, I do have like a team that I trust,
like people that are close to me that I trust
by keep my circle super small, so I would say
it's not that many people, and even within that team,
I don't know. I think it's important to really not
even ask that many people's opinions, like really, not at all,
like truly, not at all, because I think that that
(25:37):
just messes with your instinct and I think a lot
of the times, at the end of the day, you
know what you want to do.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
If you don't, you.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Can ask, which is great, but you don't always have
to ask. I don't know, it's not that many people.
You got to keep it tight.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Do you have any Do you have any other artists
that are kind of in your circle of people that
you could hit up to be like on a creative
decision level, like.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Not really, honestly, no really no really yeah no, not
really shocking. I mean, maybe I'm sure I could, but
I haven't.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
That's really impressive because I mean the output's really good.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
But I'm also very precious with my music, Like I
don't really like the experience of sharing, Like I don't
like sharing it with people. I like sharing it with people.
I don't want to be a part of it. Once
I've shared it with you, like I want to, It's
almost like I don't want to hear your feedback.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
I don't want to.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
I don't want to consider what you thought of it
or how you took it. Like the art speaks. It
is what it is. The art was made for the
purpose of expressing a certain feeling. How you interpret it
is your business in a sense. And that goes for
like my family friends, Like I don't like to watch
people listen to my music or hear people hear it
for the first time, Like I'd rather be totally separate.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
From them, be like here it is.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Enjoy it is, yeah, Like enjoy, hate it, whatever you
do with it. But at that point, it's really not.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
My business.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
A strong strong that's a strong that's a strong way
to handle that. Yeah, you say too in interviews that
like you really don't. You don't even when you're making
music consider yeah, like whoa, this could be this could
be a hit, Like there's that not that that that's
not an expectation that you put on your on your art.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, because I feel like I did for a certain
amount of time and it was detrimental to my creative process.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
I feel like it just changed how I would approach things.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
It's too formulaic in what way, Like it's too formulaic,
Like it's too gameplaye. It limits you and how you
just like think about things like you're trying to make
it fit a certain amount of bars or you know,
sound like we got to get to the hook first,
or you know, we have to it has to be
these certain you have to say the hook, you have
(27:53):
to say the word four times, you know, Like there's
all these like fake rules that people make up of
like how to make a hit song, and I think
it's very limiting in terms of just like how you
approach it. I think a better decision is to just
make it however you want to make it, and then
if you want to edit it to something that feels
more consumable or more hit like or whatever.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
That's different or even just more to your liking or
more to.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Your liking, which is what I tend to focus on,
Like I just don't even bother trying to like make
a hit.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I think that's fickle.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
And also I consider like every song I make could
be potentially a hit, so I don't like to put
that like hierarchy on them.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
You know, it's just so funny. I'm just so bugged
out because I mean I was talking to someone before
you got here, like needs to.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Me, Yeah, needs a great song sounds like just as like.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Like I'm thinking about, I'm like as great as Nasty
as I'm like, you never know, but it really goes
to it really just illustrates the point you really never do.
You never know, you never know, and so much is
out of everyone's control.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, so just make what you want to make and
then like let it, let it happen.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Does does this just having Nasty which is like like
kind of shape up to the song on the Summer?
You know what I mean? Well, like what like does
that impact the way you feel about your music or
the way that you're thinking about your sort of career
now that you are more in control of Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
I mean, oh, I mean you have the thoughts, the
thoughts like creep in where you're like what now, what?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Like where do we go next? Like yeah, what if?
The what ifs? Like what happens next? What does this mean?
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Thoughts of like does this mean that everything else I've
ever done is not as valuable as this? You know,
Like there's so many different ways you can look at it,
but at the end of the day, not really.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I feel like.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
I'm more focused on the fact that I'm just enjoying
what's going on and like living in the moment, trying
not to like let those intrusive thoughts in or really
focus on any of that.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
I think that's where you mess up.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Yeah, so yeah, I'm not really trying to change anything
about the process in terms of the art or what
I would do next.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Have you had what are the conversations you've had with
with Ricky Reid who produced it? Around it?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
We're just happy, Like it's it's fun every day just
seeing all the way people are sharing it and all
the different milestones that we're hitting.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
It's just like a celebration.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, it's gotta be huge. I mean it's like and
I feel like for your fans too, it's funny. Your
fans are super dedicated. Yeah, And it almost seemed as
if when you went independent, they went into like overdrive,
like super like protective, super and like so for a while,
it was like the narrative was like that you were
(30:46):
like underrated for something that was like your fans were
always in things like ye, people would be like, oh,
the best R and B vocalist of the twenty tens.
Then they'd be like, why.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Isn't this.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, well no, of course. It's like, dude, what a
blessing to have like fans like that that it got
your back like that, and but it's like it's so
I don't know, just as a as a I'm a
huge R and B fan, I feel like R and
B doesn't get and not that not to put you
in a box, but I feel like R and B
doesn't always get no.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
It doesn't.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
I think that's why I was so had such an
aversion to like being in that box. It wasn't because
I don't love R and B. It's because I know
how push to the side R and B always gets.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
It always feels like a side category or like something
that's like, yeah, R and B, it's cool.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, it gets no, like in terms of like we
think about it like hip hop before that rock and roll, Yeah,
like take up all the oxygen in the room.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Yeah, But every time that R and B has had
its like main moment, they just consider it pop. And
I think that was like that was my issue when
I first got in the game. So I'd be like, yeah,
I make R and B. But to me that's I
don't know. I grew up in like the early two thousands,
all of the pop songs were like R and B songs.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Yeah, that is a great point that every time R
and B has a moment, it just gets called pop
like Michael Jackson's like.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Or hip hop, like it falls into other categories.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
So, you know, people just the borders are so loose
in certain regards like.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
What is what.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Exactly?
Speaker 1 (32:20):
But there is music that we call that I guess
just for shorthand. But the funny thing about it is
like I feel like, more than any of the music,
it's always been relevant to our lives as people, like
total everyone like has you know rumbers their first dance
or like their wedding song or like whatever, like whatever.
There's all these like landmark moments in our lives are
(32:41):
kind of soundtracked totally bar and B. And it's always there.
It's like it's always selling. It's always these popular artists,
but no one really is, like no one talks about it.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Give R and be her flowers.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
It needs it, you know. After one more quick break,
we'll be back with the rest of t Nashe. We're
back with the rest of my conversation with Tshe. How
does d Jane you mentioned that you DJ in Yeah,
how does Djane impact your your sort of your palette.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
I think it's just again like that awareness of like
bpm and how I want to approach mixing certain songs
where I see them in a set kind of affects
like how I approach it in the studio, just considering
(33:35):
the different tempos and the different energies that I want
to convey, but at the same time also flipping the
script in that way, like if I have a BPM
that's super fast, approaching it like in a halftime speed
or vice versa. Right, So I think that that, Yeah,
like if we have like a seventy bpm kind of
approaching it, how I would.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
You know exactly? Do you do you spin your own
music as well?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah? Of course I do. Okay, Yeah that's the fun part.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
How like out is it like you just sneak a
song in or like yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Yeah, I'm not shy about it. Like whatever, I want
to play my songs. I like them, I made them,
I'm putting them in the setlist.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Will you play new stuff like you would you play stuff.
Have you played stuff that you haven't even put.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Out totally unreleased?
Speaker 3 (34:25):
I've played like unreleased remixes and things like that, but
I've never played a fully, fully fully unreleased song in
a set.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Wow, I don't.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Yeah, that's probably a good idea, but I've been getting
I told you, I don't like list watching people listen
to my music for my first time.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
So like in a DJ set's like my worst night.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Well, you know, it's kind of like a really organic
way to like just sort of see how people are vibing.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
But in my mind I would though, in my mind,
I'd be like, they're all dancing because they hate it,
and they're trying to act like they like it.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
They're trying to dance.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
They that's a really convoluted Wow, these people are dark.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
How did you connect with the hot Like, how did
you connect with the producers on across these various projects?
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Yeah, this one was a lot of.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
People that I knew through my management Rock Nation, and
then also just people that I've worked with on my
last project, kind of carrying over.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Not not Baby angel Part one, but.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Yeah, like the three three three two Baby Angel Era
on probably within the last I would say five years.
People that I've worked with or like one of the
producers on this projects, like my brother's friend and like
was my brother's roommate.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Who's that His name's Troy Okay.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Yeah, he's produced. He produced him. He also produced a
song on three three three. So I'm like, I'll find
beats or I'll work with whoever. Honestly, kind of if
your shit taught, I'm into it. I'm interested.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I enjoy the process.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Of getting new vibes from different creatives and having new
people in the room and fresh energy. I guess I'm
not really the type of artist that like we're the
same producer for like a really long period of time. Yeah,
if I do work with someone for a long period
of time or multiple times, like I really we really
have a good vibe, like an especially good vibe.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
So it's like the producers like no such thing on
like as been across Bar one and two. Yeah, that's
I imagine this producer got like a pretty strong vie.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I've got a great vibe for sure.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
He's a super creative guy, just super down to earth,
and I think I enjoy the fact that he is
like an ultra creative Some people I feel don't push
me as much and others do. Like his stuff is
so it's so out of the box sometimes that I
feel pushed creatively to try to meet him at that level,
And I think that that's really inspiring for me, rather
than you know, beats that I feel, Oh, this is easy.
(36:52):
I'm coming up with ideas right away. Sometimes I like
a challenge to get in the studio be like I
have no idea what I.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Would sing on this, how to approach this.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
I have no idea how to approach this. That's more exciting.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Wow, how much do you how many different like iterations
of what will like songs go through? Like yeah, especially particular,
like I just talk about this project.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
In particular, It kind of depends on the song. I
would say. Usually there's an.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Initial draft of the song where I decide that I
like really like it, or I don't like it, and
then I'll kind of go in and make little individual tweaks.
And that can be adding backgrounds, that can be changing
the beat, that can be changing lyrics on a verse,
that could be re singing sections. And that can either
(37:44):
be like one session or like ten sessions. You know,
like just kind of depends on how many things I
end up wanting to add or change, but initially to
come up with the like main meat of the song.
It's usually like one main session.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Nice, Yeah, what I want to talk about? No sleep. Yeah,
that's a song that sounds almost like like I guess
it doesn't could sound disparaging, but almost sounds like a
demo to me in the sense that it sounds like effortless. Yeah,
like that it sounded like you like you guys put
like like you just like like a Michael Jordan game
(38:24):
or something that just came out with the flu and
some shots and you're.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Like, yeah, I like that feedback because I feel like
there was a certain there were some decisions made in
how I approached that song that I wanted it to
feel very effortless, not singing, not like I was trying
to overly perform. Whether it's the fact that a lot
of that song is like a single vocal, there's not
a lot of stacks. It feels very kind of like
(38:51):
a freestyle, like it all just kind of spilled out,
the fact that the structure of the song is different
from the first hook being shorter, the second hook adding
like a whole nother you know, refrain of that with
different lyrics, So yeah, I think that was one of
the things that made that song interesting. And also when
he brought that beat back after you know, he kind
of took it overnight and brought that beat back, it
(39:13):
already had these really interesting like progressions to it.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
He would add like this.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
Kind of garage sounding kick over the regular kick, only
like twice I'd be like, well, that part was really cool.
Let's make that the post or whatever. Trying to just
go with the flow of how the beat moves, of
how it all evolves. I think that that's how the
lyrics kind of match it in that sense, like they
(39:39):
all just kind of evolve together.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yeah. Yeah, what about enough?
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I like enough to Both of these are no Sage
thing produced songs.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Both of those are enough.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
I love the pre like I think I guess it's
maybe like a pre course on that all. I've really
like like that was one of the moments on that
album where I'm like, like that maybe it's not meant
to be or you like it's like damn you really
singing on that problem came through.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
I love that song because I feel like it has
this really interesting contradictory energy, like I love songs that
feel really happy and jovial, but then like talk about
something sad.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
I feel like that song.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
It's not that it's sad, but there's like a bitter
sweet energy too enough, which I love. I love bittersweet songs,
Like I don't know, it's like the artist, I mean,
the romantic in me loves like a bittersweet moment.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Yeah, so I am. I love that.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
It's about feeling maybe like you you gave it, you're all,
but it wasn't enough, Like just knowing that you know
it's not quite good enough and feeling that like sense
of disappointment, but then at the end of the day
coming to the conclusion that you have everything that you
need and being thankful and having gratitude.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
I think that that's what that song is. But it
sounds really happy, so like I love that.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
I feel like when I get your loans a little
bitter sweet too, and like the end, Yeah, it's kind
of like a like it really is a love song. Yeah,
it's like at the end those kind of like, well,
it's a little morphosic, kind of sounds like maybe things
weren't so it's perfect, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
I mean, it's love ever perfect. It hasn't been for me, but.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Speak for ourselves.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
How much how much do you put your own personal
i mean, romantic love life into your music.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
I feel like it's always the core of the inspiration.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Like I would never sing something that like I totally
couldn't relate to. But definitely I can exaggerate on certain feelings, thoughts, emotions.
I can kind of pinpoint maybe how I feel on
a particular day and kind of go with that, you know.
I think emotions are also always changing and always evolving,
(41:56):
So I think it's it's important to speak to them
as they come up and like make a song that
represents them and then move through it, go to, you know,
onto the next. But I'd say the core of it
is always pretty real or something that I relate to.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
At least the idea of exaggerating it's pretty interesting. I've
never heard anyone.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Yeah, I mean, it's just kind of taking the feeling
and going deeper with it and expanding upon it.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Yeah, And sometimes you want to tell.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
A story and you you know, want to make it
even more real for the listener, And I think that
that's where like little exaggeration comes into play.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Yeah, have you ever found yourself having to explain things
that you've written to like partners or things like that,
because I've gotten you in trouble.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
In like cheeky ways but not in like real ways
if Yeah, not really, not not in.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Real ways, not in like okay not Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
No one's ever been like very upset, but people have
definitely been like, oh my god, are you gonna ran
a song about it? Me?
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Like maybe maybe?
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Or maybe you already have?
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Right do you?
Speaker 1 (43:17):
You were?
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (43:18):
You were mentioned? Three three three are kind of like
keeping the same more or less cast to collaborators. Yeah,
Past three, three three and Baby Angel, they kind of
sound like extensions of one. Yeah, like in like real
major ways. What was that a conscious decision when you
(43:39):
started making these sets of songs? Yeah, that you felt
like you you liked what you you did on three
three three and you wanted to extend it or.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I think I just was making I think they're all
kind of of an era.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
I started making three through three in the pandemic like
twenty twenty, and I just think like my energy shifted
since then, and it's just kind of been evolving, like
to me, three three three feels.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Like Baby Angel and Quantum Baby, but.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
It also doesn't feel as like as confident and as
resolved does these songs do.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
So I feel like this is again.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
It's not that it's they're different, but it feels like
an evolution to me.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
God, no, no, it makes sense. There's some some I
love that album though, three through three like a song
like Angels songs, amazing, out of control than you. I
want to let you go, but I won't have this
random question want to ask. I want to ask randomly
about Tom Hanks. I know you were you did the
motion motion capture for Polar Express. Yeah, but I was.
(44:41):
I was always curious. I couldn't find an answer.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Did was he there?
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Was he there?
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah? We acted the whole Yes, he was there for
I think it was like six weeks, eight weeks.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
It wasn't someone right.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Here, I was saying on the Paramount lot, literally here really, Yes,
we acted the entire movie, but like they built the
entire set out of wires, so we all have these
weird suits. It was all in a sound stage with
wires and they dubbed over the whole audio. But we
had to the entire movie filmed it. Someone's got that, like,
(45:13):
someone's got the file of the real footage of us
with the funny suits.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
It's probably like on the DVD extras or.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
Something deep somewhere in the vault.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
In the vault, what what was working? I mean you
were young that.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
I was in fourth grade.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
I was nine.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Yeah, yeah, I was nine.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
It came out I think when I was twelve, because
it was very early technology. Took them a long time
to come to do the animation. I remember when I
was nine being like.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
It's not going to come out to do thousand fun.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
So far away it was.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
It was really cool.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
He was a professional, which was very cool to see
from early days. I feel like just witnessing professionals on
set gives you a lot of motivation, like how they
would treat the pas. And he bought a lot of
tickets for everyone. I remember thinking that was really impressive.
I was like, whoa everyone A lot of people.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yeah, it was really fun experience. I was young, though.
I loved it though.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
I really enjoyed being on sets and doing all the things.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
How much do you still how much does that? Because
you mean you did a good amount of acting when
you're younger, Like, how much does that still feel like
a part of you, like something you want.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
Yeah, I feel like I use all the skills that
I gained when I was young, entertaining and acting for
what I do. Whether it's entertaining, whether it's how to
be a professional, whether it's just you know, how to
turn it on, how to turn it off. I think
there's so many ways that I'm still incorporating, like my
acting skills or you know whatever now. But music's definitely
(46:41):
my number one focus, and I want to return to
acting is something that I focus on probably later, So.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
It's still that kind of acting bug is.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Still Yeah, I mean I love it. I just love
being in front of a camera. I love putting on
a show. I love performing. So I would definitely do it.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
In your mind, who's the greatest performer who's like your inspiration?
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Dang?
Speaker 3 (47:02):
Well, music wise, I would always say Janish Action, She's
like up there, But then like, I don't know, Probably
my biggest inspiration is like my dad when it comes
to being a performer. He's like a he's a theater guy.
He loves he loves the theater, he loves stage acting
kind of you know, initially was the person who like
brought me to all my auditions and things like that,
(47:25):
So he's an inspiration. Did you we went to a
play last night?
Speaker 1 (47:29):
Did you? Would you go see?
Speaker 2 (47:31):
What is it called something a Strange Loop?
Speaker 1 (47:35):
I don't know it.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
I saw driving down the street. I saw all these
posters for it. It's like you don't ever notice something
until you see it, and then you're like.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
It's everywhere. So when you get a car in the yeah,
the same car car? What just to follow upon that?
We can we wrap up? But like would your dad
being that he's like a teacher, and like would he
was he always kind of showing you, pointing things out
to you about performances or about films or plays, you
know what.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Yes, but I was really I didn't like it.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
Like every time he would try to help me with
my lines or like give me feedback or whatever I would,
I didn't want to take it. So that's that's very
true of like who I still am today, Like I just.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Don't do well.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
Well.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
I can see it's even by the way I was like, no,
would make you like.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Stop telling me how to read the lines?
Speaker 1 (48:26):
You feel like it's in there somewhere.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
What the.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
Whatever he passed over to you pass of course.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
Of course, like you're always listening secretly, I just don't
like being told what to do, makes.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
Sense, It's very it's very Janet of you. Cool. Well, hey,
thanks for doing this.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
It's incredible, incredible, see like you know that uh, the
success that the singles happened, and that like I hope
people listen to the rest of the project and it's
like there's some incredible songs on both part one and
part two. So thanks for.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Doing this, Thanks for having me, Thanks che for.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Talking about her career and her new album Quantum Baby
with me, and also for indulging my question about Tom Hanks.
If you want to hear a playlist of our favorite
TENAHA songs, check out our playlist at broken record podcast
dot com or in the episode notes. Subscribe to our
YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken record Podcast,
where you can find all of our new episodes. You
(49:32):
can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record
is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help
from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Holliday.
Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you
love this show and others from pushkin consider subscribing to
Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers
(49:54):
bonus content and ad three listening for four ninety nine
a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions,
and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,
and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's
by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond. What
Pushkin Tinache's changing what a pop music career can look like.
Back in twenty fourteen, her song two On featuring Schoolboy
Q became a huge hit. It was her very first
single from her very first album and seems like a
clear indication that she was poised for more chart success. Instead,
(00:37):
something maybe more interesting happened. Instead of dominating the pop market,
she released projects that missed the Billboard chart but gained
her an incredibly strong and loyal fan base. She even
left her label in twenty nineteen to go independent and
brought her fans along with her, and now ten years later,
has her second Billboard hit with the viral sensation Nasty.
(00:59):
Nasty comes from her new album Quantum Baby, the second
part in a trilogy of albums that, to my ears,
sounds like her best work yet. I spoke to Tina
from Amazon's Studio one twenty six about these trio of albums,
including her big summer hit and the time she spent
weeks filming The Polar Express with Tom Hanks. This is
(01:23):
broken record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman.
Here's my conversation with Tinche Yo. Congratulations on like everything,
Yeah thing is crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I know, I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
We kind of set this up like a while ago.
I want to say, like before the song was going
to do it. You've been doing incredible work for so long.
It's like it's incredible to see the payoff.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Yeah, it feels good time having fun.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, yeah, what was Maybe we can just start with
Nasty and yeah what I guess, or maybe let's just
start with the new part two in general, like how
were you part one in part two of Baby Angel,
Baby Angel? Pronounce it a baby Angel, Baby Angel, Like
(02:17):
how did you kind of make both at the same time?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah, well I initially went in with the intention of
making a full length project, but breaking it up into
parts to give people enough time to really chew on
each piece of material. I think, you know, we live
in this day and age, it's very quick to consume,
and I think as an artist, you know, you spend
so much time working on the songs and curating them
(02:43):
so perfectly and listening to them over and over and
over again. There's something kind of sad every time you
release like a full length project and you're like.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Well, what about this track and this track and this track?
You know, like people get caught up.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Obviously, the singles get their light, they get their shine,
they get their little focused track.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Moment or a music video or something.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
But there's usually so many other songs on a record
that you want to like celebrate or you know, let
them have their flowers. So I thought it would be
smart to break it up into three different parts, seven
songs each. So I initially started working on just like
a huge batch.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, so you wanted people to be able to digest yeah,
something in.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, just each individual batch chunk.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
So then how many how many songs did you wind
up recording?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
A lot?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Every project, I end up recording a lot of material usually,
so I don't know, there's not really like a set number.
But I would say it was getting into like the
I would say fifty, I would say fifty fifty records
maybe wow.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
But those aren't all like fully fleshed out ideas.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
They're usually like I'll start a song, make a verse hook,
call that a song, you know, Yeah, decide if I'm
fucking with.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
It, I want to change it.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
We'll take me to the inception of stuff. So like,
how do you how do you work with it? Like
there's some great producers on here, obviously Nasty's Ricky reed,
but you got no such thing. Yeah, he had some
incredible cuts on the part too.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, Andy produce talks to me nice on part one.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
So I feel like that's like a great connection of
and also kind of shows how the cohesion between the
first project the second project, and also the evolution of
the from the first project to the second project, you know,
because they're both the same, but you know they're different,
they have their own personalities.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
So how do you how do you like lock in
with the producer and kind of like tell me the
process of like who starts, like are you are you
going to listen through? Listen for some for tracks, listen for.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, and then I mean it kind of depends on
who I'm working with or kind of the mood of
the day. A lot of times will start from scratch,
depending on the producer. If they're more comfortable with like
playing beats that they've kind of made, then like that's
cool too, because I will definitely take an idea, start
something and then kind of go back in and like
make tweaks and make.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Edits that way.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
But I also love starting from scratch if people are
down for that, So you know, just kind of starting
usually with like a bpm a tempo, something that feels inspiring,
something I want to dance to, something that feels different
and unique as well.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
That's something in that moment feels Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, it feels right, it feels inspiring.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Is there something off Part two that started that way?
It's kind of like was all a card to you?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah? I mean I feel like every record was, honestly,
thinking back on it, nasty definitely, red flags mmmm yeah,
so many, all of them. Okay, getting no sleep. He
didn't cook that one in the room though. That was
more like we had a session the first day. I
told him what I wanted. He said, I'll come back
with something tomorrow. So it was still like it was
(05:47):
still special, you know, Taylor tailor made for you?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Spend a lot more time on it, given you have
so many like great deep cuts on an album. M hm.
And that was kind of the impetus for maybe breaking
these these up a bit. How do you go about
deciding once you have a set of songs, what's what
the single is going to be?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, this, I may actually get some feedback on the
single because I do want to hear what other people
are into, but not necessarily the songs on the album itself.
Like I'll definitely refer to which ones I'm looking back
on and constantly playing to see which songs are like
(06:28):
the keepers. But sometimes the singles is just like playing
it for a few people and you can tell.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Sometimes it's the one that.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Sparks the idea for a music video, like, oh, I
could do this really cool concept.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I'd love to give this a moment.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Sometimes it's just highlighting up record that I feel like
would otherwise be just lost in the shuffle.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
There's not like a huge rhymor reason mind.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
It so, But there are some songs at the end
of the day you'll set aside as being like maybe
you have a hunch these could or.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah, just because people are usually excited about it.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
People in the studio, yeah yeah, or play things in
your life or whatnot. Any thing you can point as
to why you feel like Nasty is doing what it's doing.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I mean I think a lot of things.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Probably, I think the fact that the song is very catchy,
it's easy to get in your head. You can hear
it one time, you kind of remember it, or you
kind of know what's what it's about. I think the
simplicity of it lends itself to being a hit song.
I think it doesn't really sound like too much other
(07:37):
stuff on the radio right now or like in the
universe right now. I think it has its own vibe
with kind of the minor chord section going into like
the major chord hook. So I think that stands out
in a way. I think it's memeable. You know. It's
got these like funny, funny lines that are like is
somebody gonna match my freak? Or I having a nasty girl?
You know that people are just finding these little memorable moments.
(08:02):
And I also just think like time and place, like
you know, just sometimes the universe just the perfect storm
of everything coming together, everything else that's out right now
where I'm at my career, the fact that it's summer,
you know.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I think there's just so many things that go into it.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
The lines part about the meaning of life, even like
you deliver it is really like your delivery on that yeah,
so interesting, even like I need somebody with a good technique.
It's just it makes you, It makes you feel something different,
you know. I mean you're like, oh, it's just like
there's a you could tell that there was really almost
sounds like a I mean in a way, it's almost
(08:44):
like maybe the way like an actor reads lines. Yeah,
treated I don't know that you did that.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
But as a listener, there was definitely a purposefulness of
the approach to the verse. Like how I said it,
I really wanted it to be in like a conversational
part of my voice, and so it felt very in
your face and really like I was just talking to
you and not like I was trying too hard to
like perform it or sing it or do it in
(09:10):
my singing voice or any particular voice. Because sometimes easy
to do that too, you know, like perform it in
like a sexier tone or like you can do so
many different ways to make it interesting if you will.
But I really wanted it to be like in a talky,
conversational kind of tone.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Is that like an intentional set out in the studio?
And then like, I guess, how do you get vocal feedback? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I also don't really get vocal feedback.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
I usually it's just me and my engineer recording everything
and yeah, just doing whatever feels right. I actually don't
like vocal feedback. Every time there's like a vocal producer
in the room. I'm like, this is so annoying. Let
me sing it how I want to see it. The
initial reason was because I'd recorded it as a freestyle
(09:56):
and I had that tone. So listening back to the
freestyle that I'd recorded, I was like, that sounds good.
I tried to mimic it, and it didn't come across
that same way. So I was very specific in trying
to like mimic it the way that I just was
saying when I was messing around.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Wait, so what part of exactly was a freestyle?
Speaker 3 (10:16):
The whole I've been a nasty girl, nasty and is
somebody gonna match my freak? Is somebody gonna match my freak?
Is somebody gonna match my nasty?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
The whole thing? The uh, the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
I have it.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
I have it in my computer on photo booth.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Wait, is that what you were? It wasn't like a
voicemail you got you hopped on photo booth.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah. Because I was driving in my car and the
music was playing off my phone, so I had to
record myself. So I had my laptop and the passengers like,
open it up, very sick. I wasn't filming myself.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
It was just filming the audio then Yeah, how.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Much is that a part of your process freestyling?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, I feel like that gives me the best product.
So I always try to be very purposeful about following
my instinct and making sure that I record my initial
instinct on a b That's really important too, because a
lot of times I just think that that's your best
idea for some reason.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Just is so recording things going back to hear what
the initial like, Yeah, what really spoke to you initially? Yeah,
and then yeah, not exaggerating but building on them yeah hmm.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
And a lot of times either there will be words already,
like with Nasty there were actual words, tangible words, but
sometimes it's just melodies.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Sometimes it's gibberish.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Sometimes it's a word here and there, mumbo jumbo, and
you kind of have to like excavate the lyrics. But yeah,
I think that's usually how I write nearly every song.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Wow, that's really cool.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, you just kind of felt like, yeah, well I
really love that, Like West Coast kind of chilled but
still makes you want to dance. It's that pocket that
like everyone wants to bob their head. Everyone could kind
of catch that beat. It's not too up, it's not
too slow. Yeah, And I've been DJing a lot lately
and there's always like a lot of songs in that
(12:08):
like ninety nine one hundred bpm that I love to play.
I don't know because I grew up on the West Coast,
but it was like sweet Spot.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
What are those tracks?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I don't know, like anything like Ti Dolla Sign or
like YG you know, like that it's giving that laid back,
effortless bop energy and wanting to kind of start with
that pocket.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Okay, dope. When did you officially move to California?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
How old were seven?
Speaker 1 (12:34):
You were seven?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Did it feel? How was coming out here? Like? Because
you were obviously from a young age plugged into the arts,
plugged into music, digesting things that you're taking in. How
did how to moving here change the way you you
listened to things and felt things and what you wanted
to do.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
I feel like the West Coast has such a specific
style of just culture and sound, whether it be like
how the culture of creating music, you know, being in
that culture from really young age, being in the studios,
you know, seeing how songs were made, you know how
producers worked, you know, just the culture of chilling in
(13:14):
La and the laid backness of it all. And I
think that has a lot to do with like approach,
subject matter, PPM style, just different things that I tend
to like, you know, growing up here has a very
clear vibe in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, it's hard to explain I think to people that
don't grow I grew up here too. It's like and
there is a certain cadence and a swim rhythm. I
guess a rhythm to life here, and I guess it's
maybe like you can explain to New Yorker because they
also have a rhythm that they're plugged.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Into the different one, but they feel.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Very much and feels superior.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Sometimes, But but I do think like like coming like
you know, obviously the legacy of kind of like that
West Coast swing that goes into like a yg My
crazy life and all these others like I love And
now that you're saying that, I can kind of hear
that because you do have a unique.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Style, Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
And it feels like because Tuon it was your first single, Yeah,
turned out to be a big Yeah, definitely, and it
feels like you kind of came fully formed.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah, well it had that pocket too, so I feel
like that's another reference point always like going back to
being like, how do we you know that there was
some magic in that what was that?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
You know, what set that song apart?
Speaker 3 (14:37):
And I think that part of it is that identity,
having that kind of its own identity, its own vibe,
its own cadence, And yeah, I don't know, I just
remember like growing up and going to dance it, you know,
just being around at the house parties and stuff like that.
I think it's just very visceral and you want to
be a part of it and you want to just
like have that energy. So going into my entire career,
(15:00):
I kind of always had in the back of my
head like every project has a couple of those little
tracks sprinkled in, from back to my first mixtape, Like
I have a record on there called Chainless that's like
the super West Coast, just like we shot it on Fairfax,
like shot the music video. It's just kind of funny
to see how everything comes very full circle, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah, Yeah, you've stayed based here your whole career. Yeah right, yeah,
how do you You're just I'm just thinking you shot your
very first video from your mixtape on Fair Facts. Yeah,
you're a very different stage in your career in life
at this point today.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, I was just driving in traffic in the exact
same location where I shot that video.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Like wow, I'm just dripping about, like how like how
you must experience a city so differently.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, I don't know, it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I think the evolution and the journey is all these
little moments along the way really make it so much
more meaningful and impactful to be where I am now
and to kind of see firsthand you can you can
compare very easily like the then and now, and I
think that that makes it really sweet.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We'll be right back with more from
a conversation with Tina. We're back with Tinache. I want
to talk a bit about your journey to being like
an independent artist or your journey since becoming an independent artist.
(16:28):
It's interesting that you seem to kind of be ahead
of the curve a bit on that.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
I don't know, it's the queriesst of me, Like we're
always trying to move.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Ahead of the curve.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
I guess I always trying to see about corners and
I was just.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Trying to make your own path, you know, carve your
own way.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Because it's like you left your label in twenty nineteen, yeah,
and so five years later it seems to be like,
like I just saw today Neo is going independent. Really
like this is a real sort of time, a real
pivotal like kind of like a boiling point in music
(17:08):
where artists are realizing what they can do for themselves
and you've got like a five year head start on it.
Can you take me through the decision to go independent?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
I think for me it The thing about the independent
route that I you know, try to emphasize or keep
in mind is that I do think I wouldn't necessarily
ride out the gate be like everyone should be independent.
I think it's like a very case by case basis.
I feel like I had a very lucky perfect storm
of like having the experience with the major label that
(17:40):
kind of sowed a lot of seeds for me, and
then like you know, establishing a fan base that was
very dedicated and like super loyal, so that when I
was able to make that step, they were able to
go with me and follow me and still continue to
support me. Because I do think the independent grind is
super difficult, and so I think it's it's more what's
(18:04):
really important is being able to tailor your career specifically
for like what works for you. Because the reason I
went into bed personally was because I just like mentally
was not.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Enjoying being in the.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Place where I couldn't make all of the creative financial,
you know, timing decisions when it came to my music.
And I think it works for some people. You know,
you know it's a complicated relationship.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Sure, yeah, but I mean like it must have been
because you know, like there's a world it must not
have even been label specific, or you could tell me
if it was, because it's like, I'm sure you could
have just like found a different relationship that worked.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
You mean, like a different record late.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I wasn't interested in that at that point because I
really wanted to, I guess, prove to myself that my
decisions were still the right decisions. And I was very
wary of adding more cooks to the kitchen, if you will,
I think it you know, like when you're working with
a bigger team, a bigger machine, you start making little
(19:09):
compromises here and there. It's not necessarily like it's in
your face, and it's very cut and dry, like I'm
making the wrong decision. It's you know, you start listening
to so many different opinions and there's a lot of
outside noise, and I think I really wanted to just
eliminate all of that, go back to my roots, go
back to making music in my house, in my home,
and being the sole decider of like this is the one,
(19:31):
this is what I'm going to do, this is what
I want to put out, and so yeah, it was
just really important for me at the time to make
that decision to like fully embrace.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Being by myself, you know, on a creative front.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Yeah, you had mentioned that it's like, you know, when
you go independent, there's not like some you know, I
mean there's kind of there's not some like predetermined path
like you kind of have to tailor it to you.
That's who you are as an artist and you taste.
So what were some of those early conversations you were
having amongst you know, your team at that point about
(20:07):
what how you could position yourself to be successful?
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yeah, I mean the biggest question mark is always like
how are we going to fund this? So it's there's
big ideas, but without you know, a major label budget.
You're constantly thinking about how are we going to find
the funds, get the funds or you know, like make
the funds.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
You know, like you just have to figure it out.
You get very super.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Smart about how you spread out your financial decisions, where
you spend the money, how you spend the money, looking
for like the tiniest ways to be able to cut
corners to maximize the art itself. And I think for
a couple of years that was definitely something that was
a big focus was just trying to figure out how
do we just keep it going, keep the art coming, keep.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
The music videos coming with the budget that we've got.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
And did you feel like you had to almost step
up the output in a sense.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Of course, because you always have to continue to step
up the output, I think just competing in this environment,
and also as the type of artist that I am,
Like I'm not brand new, so I'm constantly trying to
raise the bar creatively and with my own work.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
So I mean a lot.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Of times when you have like crazier and crazier ideas,
you know, it costs more and more money, so you're
it's just something that you're constantly trying to figure out
where how to negotiate that, like within your own mind.
You know, as an artist, obviously you never want to
compromise your art and you can't, but you have to
figure out how to be crafty sometimes.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Right How how I mean, how did that then impact
the art?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I think I enjoyed it because it was empowering in
a sense. I mean, it was difficult, but it was
empowering to know that all of the output was because
of hard work and great relationships and.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
You know, just the strength if you will.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
So Yeah, I think everything that we did have going
independent really led up to these moments that I'm having now,
really paved the way because I was able to re
establish I think how like my perception within the industry.
I think people respected the fact that I was making
it on my own and that kind of changed I
(22:27):
think how people perceived me.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, I could see that because you know, like obviously
when your first singles too on and it does what
it does, I mean, I'm sure there must have been
some sort of temptation to just sort of slot you
into the pop machinery. Yeah, but very clearly like you
are a different kind of artist.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Well, I don't like being put in a specific box
very much. I tend to break and push against that.
So I feel that initially there were a lot of labels,
whether it was just simple things like genre. Like I
was very opposed to being labeled as like a particular genre,
(23:08):
and still to this day, I don't feel that pressure
as much anymore because I feel like people have an
understanding of like the fact that I do genre hop
and use a lot of inspiration from different things. But
I definitely feel like at the beginning, just a very
visceral reaction to be like, no, not put me in
that box.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
You're right, you know, and they're trying to just sell
you to a certain market.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, but it's so.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Much more nuanced and complicated and layered and colorful than that.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah. Yeah. One one of the things I noticed about
like it was so is listening to that we spent
the last almost year with part one and now getting
the chance to preview Part two, it's refreshing that there's
no features, Like it's nice just to hear you like
(23:54):
straight up you like, you know what I mean, And
I feel like that's something that is I don't know,
it's not it's we don't get a lot of these days.
And I love that you're able to make decisions like that,
Like it's just gonna be you going to work on
a song with the producer and we're only going to
hear from you because I mean you have a real
(24:15):
distinct point of view.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
I mean I love just having the work speak for itself.
And I think that that's what these projects do, which
I really love is that they're simple and the fact
that it's all me. There's not as many like side
quests and different things added to like add flavor or spice.
You know, it's just it's simple and it's all me.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
So that's great, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Do what kind of how do you so if you're
coming from a system where there's like it's more team yeah,
or there's just kind of a larger decision making body. Yeah,
and you kind of scale this way down when you record,
say fifty something songs, Yeah, and you're thinking about, well,
I like these I want to make this into something.
(25:06):
Who are you talking with to sort of figure out
what the what the viue with the move is? Yeah?
Like all these good and ye put them out, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
I mean, I do have like a team that I trust,
like people that are close to me that I trust
by keep my circle super small, so I would say
it's not that many people, and even within that team,
I don't know. I think it's important to really not
even ask that many people's opinions, like really, not at all,
like truly, not at all, because I think that that
(25:37):
just messes with your instinct and I think a lot
of the times, at the end of the day, you
know what you want to do.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
If you don't, you.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Can ask, which is great, but you don't always have
to ask. I don't know, it's not that many people.
You got to keep it tight.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Do you have any Do you have any other artists
that are kind of in your circle of people that
you could hit up to be like on a creative
decision level, like.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Not really, honestly, no really no really yeah no, not
really shocking. I mean, maybe I'm sure I could, but
I haven't.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
That's really impressive because I mean the output's really good.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
But I'm also very precious with my music, Like I
don't really like the experience of sharing, Like I don't
like sharing it with people. I like sharing it with people.
I don't want to be a part of it. Once
I've shared it with you, like I want to, It's
almost like I don't want to hear your feedback.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
I don't want to.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
I don't want to consider what you thought of it
or how you took it. Like the art speaks. It
is what it is. The art was made for the
purpose of expressing a certain feeling. How you interpret it
is your business in a sense. And that goes for
like my family friends, Like I don't like to watch
people listen to my music or hear people hear it
for the first time, Like I'd rather be totally separate.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
From them, be like here it is.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Enjoy it is, yeah, Like enjoy, hate it, whatever you
do with it. But at that point, it's really not.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
My business.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
A strong strong that's a strong that's a strong way
to handle that. Yeah, you say too in interviews that
like you really don't. You don't even when you're making
music consider yeah, like whoa, this could be this could
be a hit, Like there's that not that that that's
not an expectation that you put on your on your art.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, because I feel like I did for a certain
amount of time and it was detrimental to my creative process.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
I feel like it just changed how I would approach things.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
It's too formulaic in what way, Like it's too formulaic,
Like it's too gameplaye. It limits you and how you
just like think about things like you're trying to make
it fit a certain amount of bars or you know,
sound like we got to get to the hook first,
or you know, we have to it has to be
these certain you have to say the hook, you have
(27:53):
to say the word four times, you know, Like there's
all these like fake rules that people make up of
like how to make a hit song, and I think
it's very limiting in terms of just like how you
approach it. I think a better decision is to just
make it however you want to make it, and then
if you want to edit it to something that feels
more consumable or more hit like or whatever.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
That's different or even just more to your liking or
more to.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Your liking, which is what I tend to focus on,
Like I just don't even bother trying to like make
a hit.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I think that's fickle.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
And also I consider like every song I make could
be potentially a hit, so I don't like to put
that like hierarchy on them.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
You know, it's just so funny. I'm just so bugged
out because I mean I was talking to someone before
you got here, like needs to.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Me, Yeah, needs a great song sounds like just as like.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Like I'm thinking about, I'm like as great as Nasty
as I'm like, you never know, but it really goes
to it really just illustrates the point you really never do.
You never know, you never know, and so much is
out of everyone's control.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, so just make what you want to make and
then like let it, let it happen.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Does does this just having Nasty which is like like
kind of shape up to the song on the Summer?
You know what I mean? Well, like what like does
that impact the way you feel about your music or
the way that you're thinking about your sort of career
now that you are more in control of Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
I mean, oh, I mean you have the thoughts, the
thoughts like creep in where you're like what now, what?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Like where do we go next? Like yeah, what if?
The what ifs? Like what happens next? What does this mean?
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Thoughts of like does this mean that everything else I've
ever done is not as valuable as this? You know,
Like there's so many different ways you can look at it,
but at the end of the day, not really.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I feel like.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
I'm more focused on the fact that I'm just enjoying
what's going on and like living in the moment, trying
not to like let those intrusive thoughts in or really
focus on any of that.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
I think that's where you mess up.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Yeah, so yeah, I'm not really trying to change anything
about the process in terms of the art or what
I would do next.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Have you had what are the conversations you've had with
with Ricky Reid who produced it? Around it?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
We're just happy, Like it's it's fun every day just
seeing all the way people are sharing it and all
the different milestones that we're hitting.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
It's just like a celebration.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, it's gotta be huge. I mean it's like and
I feel like for your fans too, it's funny. Your
fans are super dedicated. Yeah, And it almost seemed as
if when you went independent, they went into like overdrive,
like super like protective, super and like so for a while,
it was like the narrative was like that you were
(30:46):
like underrated for something that was like your fans were
always in things like ye, people would be like, oh,
the best R and B vocalist of the twenty tens.
Then they'd be like, why.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Isn't this.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, well no, of course. It's like, dude, what a
blessing to have like fans like that that it got
your back like that, and but it's like it's so
I don't know, just as a as a I'm a
huge R and B fan, I feel like R and
B doesn't get and not that not to put you
in a box, but I feel like R and B
doesn't always get no.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
It doesn't.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
I think that's why I was so had such an
aversion to like being in that box. It wasn't because
I don't love R and B. It's because I know
how push to the side R and B always gets.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
It always feels like a side category or like something
that's like, yeah, R and B, it's cool.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, it gets no, like in terms of like we
think about it like hip hop before that rock and roll, Yeah,
like take up all the oxygen in the room.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Yeah, But every time that R and B has had
its like main moment, they just consider it pop. And
I think that was like that was my issue when
I first got in the game. So I'd be like, yeah,
I make R and B. But to me that's I
don't know. I grew up in like the early two thousands,
all of the pop songs were like R and B songs.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Yeah, that is a great point that every time R
and B has a moment, it just gets called pop
like Michael Jackson's like.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Or hip hop, like it falls into other categories.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
So, you know, people just the borders are so loose
in certain regards like.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
What is what.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Exactly?
Speaker 1 (32:20):
But there is music that we call that I guess
just for shorthand. But the funny thing about it is
like I feel like, more than any of the music,
it's always been relevant to our lives as people, like
total everyone like has you know rumbers their first dance
or like their wedding song or like whatever, like whatever.
There's all these like landmark moments in our lives are
(32:41):
kind of soundtracked totally bar and B. And it's always there.
It's like it's always selling. It's always these popular artists,
but no one really is, like no one talks about it.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Give R and be her flowers.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
It needs it, you know. After one more quick break,
we'll be back with the rest of t Nashe. We're
back with the rest of my conversation with Tshe. How
does d Jane you mentioned that you DJ in Yeah,
how does Djane impact your your sort of your palette.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
I think it's just again like that awareness of like
bpm and how I want to approach mixing certain songs
where I see them in a set kind of affects
like how I approach it in the studio, just considering
(33:35):
the different tempos and the different energies that I want
to convey, but at the same time also flipping the
script in that way, like if I have a BPM
that's super fast, approaching it like in a halftime speed
or vice versa. Right, So I think that that, Yeah,
like if we have like a seventy bpm kind of
approaching it, how I would.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
You know exactly? Do you do you spin your own
music as well?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah? Of course I do. Okay, Yeah that's the fun part.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
How like out is it like you just sneak a
song in or like yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Yeah, I'm not shy about it. Like whatever, I want
to play my songs. I like them, I made them,
I'm putting them in the setlist.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Will you play new stuff like you would you play stuff.
Have you played stuff that you haven't even put.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Out totally unreleased?
Speaker 3 (34:25):
I've played like unreleased remixes and things like that, but
I've never played a fully, fully fully unreleased song in
a set.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Wow, I don't.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Yeah, that's probably a good idea, but I've been getting
I told you, I don't like list watching people listen
to my music for my first time.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
So like in a DJ set's like my worst night.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Well, you know, it's kind of like a really organic
way to like just sort of see how people are vibing.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
But in my mind I would though, in my mind,
I'd be like, they're all dancing because they hate it,
and they're trying to act like they like it.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
They're trying to dance.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
They that's a really convoluted Wow, these people are dark.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
How did you connect with the hot Like, how did
you connect with the producers on across these various projects?
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Yeah, this one was a lot of.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
People that I knew through my management Rock Nation, and
then also just people that I've worked with on my
last project, kind of carrying over.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Not not Baby angel Part one, but.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Yeah, like the three three three two Baby Angel Era
on probably within the last I would say five years.
People that I've worked with or like one of the
producers on this projects, like my brother's friend and like
was my brother's roommate.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Who's that His name's Troy Okay.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Yeah, he's produced. He produced him. He also produced a
song on three three three. So I'm like, I'll find
beats or I'll work with whoever. Honestly, kind of if
your shit taught, I'm into it. I'm interested.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I enjoy the process.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Of getting new vibes from different creatives and having new
people in the room and fresh energy. I guess I'm
not really the type of artist that like we're the
same producer for like a really long period of time. Yeah,
if I do work with someone for a long period
of time or multiple times, like I really we really
have a good vibe, like an especially good vibe.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
So it's like the producers like no such thing on
like as been across Bar one and two. Yeah, that's
I imagine this producer got like a pretty strong vie.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I've got a great vibe for sure.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
He's a super creative guy, just super down to earth,
and I think I enjoy the fact that he is
like an ultra creative Some people I feel don't push
me as much and others do. Like his stuff is
so it's so out of the box sometimes that I
feel pushed creatively to try to meet him at that level,
And I think that that's really inspiring for me, rather
than you know, beats that I feel, Oh, this is easy.
(36:52):
I'm coming up with ideas right away. Sometimes I like
a challenge to get in the studio be like I
have no idea what I.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Would sing on this, how to approach this.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
I have no idea how to approach this. That's more exciting.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Wow, how much do you how many different like iterations
of what will like songs go through? Like yeah, especially particular,
like I just talk about this project.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
In particular, It kind of depends on the song. I
would say. Usually there's an.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Initial draft of the song where I decide that I
like really like it, or I don't like it, and
then I'll kind of go in and make little individual tweaks.
And that can be adding backgrounds, that can be changing
the beat, that can be changing lyrics on a verse,
that could be re singing sections. And that can either
(37:44):
be like one session or like ten sessions. You know,
like just kind of depends on how many things I
end up wanting to add or change, but initially to
come up with the like main meat of the song.
It's usually like one main session.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Nice, Yeah, what I want to talk about? No sleep. Yeah,
that's a song that sounds almost like like I guess
it doesn't could sound disparaging, but almost sounds like a
demo to me in the sense that it sounds like effortless. Yeah,
like that it sounded like you like you guys put
like like you just like like a Michael Jordan game
(38:24):
or something that just came out with the flu and
some shots and you're.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Like, yeah, I like that feedback because I feel like
there was a certain there were some decisions made in
how I approached that song that I wanted it to
feel very effortless, not singing, not like I was trying
to overly perform. Whether it's the fact that a lot
of that song is like a single vocal, there's not
a lot of stacks. It feels very kind of like
(38:51):
a freestyle, like it all just kind of spilled out,
the fact that the structure of the song is different
from the first hook being shorter, the second hook adding
like a whole nother you know, refrain of that with
different lyrics, So yeah, I think that was one of
the things that made that song interesting. And also when
he brought that beat back after you know, he kind
of took it overnight and brought that beat back, it
(39:13):
already had these really interesting like progressions to it.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
He would add like this.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
Kind of garage sounding kick over the regular kick, only
like twice I'd be like, well, that part was really cool.
Let's make that the post or whatever. Trying to just
go with the flow of how the beat moves, of
how it all evolves. I think that that's how the
lyrics kind of match it in that sense, like they
(39:39):
all just kind of evolve together.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yeah. Yeah, what about enough?
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I like enough to Both of these are no Sage
thing produced songs.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Both of those are enough.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
I love the pre like I think I guess it's
maybe like a pre course on that all. I've really
like like that was one of the moments on that
album where I'm like, like that maybe it's not meant
to be or you like it's like damn you really
singing on that problem came through.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
I love that song because I feel like it has
this really interesting contradictory energy, like I love songs that
feel really happy and jovial, but then like talk about
something sad.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
I feel like that song.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
It's not that it's sad, but there's like a bitter
sweet energy too enough, which I love. I love bittersweet songs,
Like I don't know, it's like the artist, I mean,
the romantic in me loves like a bittersweet moment.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Yeah, so I am. I love that.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
It's about feeling maybe like you you gave it, you're all,
but it wasn't enough, Like just knowing that you know
it's not quite good enough and feeling that like sense
of disappointment, but then at the end of the day
coming to the conclusion that you have everything that you
need and being thankful and having gratitude.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
I think that that's what that song is. But it
sounds really happy, so like I love that.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
I feel like when I get your loans a little
bitter sweet too, and like the end, Yeah, it's kind
of like a like it really is a love song. Yeah,
it's like at the end those kind of like, well,
it's a little morphosic, kind of sounds like maybe things
weren't so it's perfect, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
I mean, it's love ever perfect. It hasn't been for me, but.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Speak for ourselves.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
How much how much do you put your own personal
i mean, romantic love life into your music.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
I feel like it's always the core of the inspiration.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Like I would never sing something that like I totally
couldn't relate to. But definitely I can exaggerate on certain feelings, thoughts, emotions.
I can kind of pinpoint maybe how I feel on
a particular day and kind of go with that, you know.
I think emotions are also always changing and always evolving,
(41:56):
So I think it's it's important to speak to them
as they come up and like make a song that
represents them and then move through it, go to, you know,
onto the next. But I'd say the core of it
is always pretty real or something that I relate to.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
At least the idea of exaggerating it's pretty interesting. I've
never heard anyone.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Yeah, I mean, it's just kind of taking the feeling
and going deeper with it and expanding upon it.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Yeah, And sometimes you want to tell.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
A story and you you know, want to make it
even more real for the listener, And I think that
that's where like little exaggeration comes into play.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Yeah, have you ever found yourself having to explain things
that you've written to like partners or things like that,
because I've gotten you in trouble.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
In like cheeky ways but not in like real ways
if Yeah, not really, not not in.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Real ways, not in like okay not Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
No one's ever been like very upset, but people have
definitely been like, oh my god, are you gonna ran
a song about it? Me?
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Like maybe maybe?
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Or maybe you already have?
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Right do you?
Speaker 1 (43:17):
You were?
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (43:18):
You were mentioned? Three three three are kind of like
keeping the same more or less cast to collaborators. Yeah,
Past three, three three and Baby Angel, they kind of
sound like extensions of one. Yeah, like in like real
major ways. What was that a conscious decision when you
(43:39):
started making these sets of songs? Yeah, that you felt
like you you liked what you you did on three
three three and you wanted to extend it or.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I think I just was making I think they're all
kind of of an era.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
I started making three through three in the pandemic like
twenty twenty, and I just think like my energy shifted
since then, and it's just kind of been evolving, like
to me, three three three feels.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Like Baby Angel and Quantum Baby, but.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
It also doesn't feel as like as confident and as
resolved does these songs do.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
So I feel like this is again.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
It's not that it's they're different, but it feels like
an evolution to me.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
God, no, no, it makes sense. There's some some I
love that album though, three through three like a song
like Angels songs, amazing, out of control than you. I
want to let you go, but I won't have this
random question want to ask. I want to ask randomly
about Tom Hanks. I know you were you did the
motion motion capture for Polar Express. Yeah, but I was.
(44:41):
I was always curious. I couldn't find an answer.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Did was he there?
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Was he there?
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah? We acted the whole Yes, he was there for
I think it was like six weeks, eight weeks.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
It wasn't someone right.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Here, I was saying on the Paramount lot, literally here really, Yes,
we acted the entire movie, but like they built the
entire set out of wires, so we all have these
weird suits. It was all in a sound stage with
wires and they dubbed over the whole audio. But we
had to the entire movie filmed it. Someone's got that, like,
(45:13):
someone's got the file of the real footage of us
with the funny suits.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
It's probably like on the DVD extras or.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
Something deep somewhere in the vault.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
In the vault, what what was working? I mean you
were young that.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
I was in fourth grade.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
I was nine.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Yeah, yeah, I was nine.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
It came out I think when I was twelve, because
it was very early technology. Took them a long time
to come to do the animation. I remember when I
was nine being like.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
It's not going to come out to do thousand fun.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
So far away it was.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
It was really cool.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
He was a professional, which was very cool to see
from early days. I feel like just witnessing professionals on
set gives you a lot of motivation, like how they
would treat the pas. And he bought a lot of
tickets for everyone. I remember thinking that was really impressive.
I was like, whoa everyone A lot of people.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yeah, it was really fun experience. I was young, though.
I loved it though.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
I really enjoyed being on sets and doing all the things.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
How much do you still how much does that? Because
you mean you did a good amount of acting when
you're younger, Like, how much does that still feel like
a part of you, like something you want.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
Yeah, I feel like I use all the skills that
I gained when I was young, entertaining and acting for
what I do. Whether it's entertaining, whether it's how to
be a professional, whether it's just you know, how to
turn it on, how to turn it off. I think
there's so many ways that I'm still incorporating, like my
acting skills or you know whatever now. But music's definitely
(46:41):
my number one focus, and I want to return to
acting is something that I focus on probably later, So.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
It's still that kind of acting bug is.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Still Yeah, I mean I love it. I just love
being in front of a camera. I love putting on
a show. I love performing. So I would definitely do it.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
In your mind, who's the greatest performer who's like your inspiration?
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Dang?
Speaker 3 (47:02):
Well, music wise, I would always say Janish Action, She's
like up there, But then like, I don't know, Probably
my biggest inspiration is like my dad when it comes
to being a performer. He's like a he's a theater guy.
He loves he loves the theater, he loves stage acting
kind of you know, initially was the person who like
brought me to all my auditions and things like that,
(47:25):
So he's an inspiration. Did you we went to a
play last night?
Speaker 1 (47:29):
Did you? Would you go see?
Speaker 2 (47:31):
What is it called something a Strange Loop?
Speaker 1 (47:35):
I don't know it.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
I saw driving down the street. I saw all these
posters for it. It's like you don't ever notice something
until you see it, and then you're like.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
It's everywhere. So when you get a car in the yeah,
the same car car? What just to follow upon that?
We can we wrap up? But like would your dad
being that he's like a teacher, and like would he
was he always kind of showing you, pointing things out
to you about performances or about films or plays, you
know what.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Yes, but I was really I didn't like it.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
Like every time he would try to help me with
my lines or like give me feedback or whatever I would,
I didn't want to take it. So that's that's very
true of like who I still am today, Like I just.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Don't do well.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
Well.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
I can see it's even by the way I was like, no,
would make you like.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Stop telling me how to read the lines?
Speaker 1 (48:26):
You feel like it's in there somewhere.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
What the.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
Whatever he passed over to you pass of course.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
Of course, like you're always listening secretly, I just don't
like being told what to do, makes.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
Sense, It's very it's very Janet of you. Cool. Well, hey,
thanks for doing this.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
It's incredible, incredible, see like you know that uh, the
success that the singles happened, and that like I hope
people listen to the rest of the project and it's
like there's some incredible songs on both part one and
part two. So thanks for.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Doing this, Thanks for having me, Thanks che for.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Talking about her career and her new album Quantum Baby
with me, and also for indulging my question about Tom Hanks.
If you want to hear a playlist of our favorite
TENAHA songs, check out our playlist at broken record podcast
dot com or in the episode notes. Subscribe to our
YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken record Podcast,
where you can find all of our new episodes. You
(49:32):
can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record
is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help
from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Holliday.
Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you
love this show and others from pushkin consider subscribing to
Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers
(49:54):
bonus content and ad three listening for four ninety nine
a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions,
and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,
and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's
by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond. What
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