December 14, 2022 • 28 mins
We switch things up this week as Mo challenges Emily to watch and rate a sex scene from the popular TV show “Ted Lasso." Emily rarely watches sex scenes since they often create the myths she works so hard to dispel, but she agrees to endure this torture for the good of our sex education. The scene prompts a deep conversation about vulnerability in sex, the absolute prison of masculinity, and what the dual control model can teach us about our porn habits.
If you have a question for Emily, call the Come As You Are hotline at (646) 397-8557 or send a voice memo to emily@pushkin.fm. Tell us your pronouns and pseudonym (pick a name, any name!) Your question might be answered on the show.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. I'm Emmaline Nagowski and this is the Come as
you Are podcast where I answer questions about sex with science.
And in this episode, we're doing something a little different. Mo.
What are we doing today? Hey, Emily, So today we're
going to do an episode called real Talk, Fake Sex.
(00:38):
And here's how it works. I'm going to play you
a clip from pop culture. It could be anything about sex,
and you, as an expert sex educator, are going to
break it down for me and for the listeners, and
very importantly, at the end of the episode, I'm going
to ask you to rate the scene from zero stars
(00:59):
to five stars okay on the Emali Nagosky scale of
how great is this scene in terms of like, is
it violence portrayed as sex or is it actual doing
the work of sex educators everywhere and making everyone sex
life better? Yep? Pop culture can do everything in that range. Yep.
I know that you are a little averse to pop culture. Yeah,
(01:23):
to say that I live under a rock is maybe
it's not an understatement, but oh, it's very close to
the description. But in particular things about sexuality in pop culture.
Because I'm here to answer questions about sex with science
and So many of the myths that people bring to
(01:44):
me in their questions are things they learned from pop culture.
So the reason I'm willing to experience this torture of
listening to some pop culture thing is because I think
it's important for us to break down the myths as
they are represented to us. But some pop culture things
are really positive. Some of them are really good, and
it's worth highlighting those two. Actually, let me just do
(02:07):
a little survey really quickly. I get a sense of
where you're coming from in your pop culture knowledge. Are
you ready? Have you ever seen Sex in the City.
I have seen a fragment of one episode. Okay, okay,
good to know. Have you ever seen the Tracy Ellis
(02:30):
Raws show Girlfriends? No? Okay, have you ever seen the
show sex Education on Netflix? I have only seen the
meme of the girl who says, have you read that book?
Come as you are? Only Negowski? It's really good, just
because like a hundred people sent it to me. Do
(02:52):
you know most women's volves don't look likely do on Pornhub?
I was thought mine was a bit ugly because it's
not only top ten, but actually it's dead normal. Should
we come as you are. It's a great book. Okay.
Good to know that your starting place for pop culture
references is media that you are mentioned in. Okay, So
(03:15):
for this episode, I'm going to start with a softball
for you, and I think it is something you have
actually seen before, because you mentioned that you love the
show ted Lasso. Yes, so you barely watch any TV.
But what do you like about ted Lasso? It was
just this summer that I started watching it, actually because
(03:37):
I was looking for something like really positive, end uplifting
without a whole lot of like stressful drama. And it
hit that note and then some and I didn't know
that it was going to have such interesting sex and
relationship stories. I started it because like everyone was talking
about it, and then I was one of those things
(03:58):
where I just pressed play on one episode and then somehow,
like eight hours later, I had finished a whole season.
Oh yeah, and then your day is gone, yes exactly,
and I'm crying and I'm like, I can't stop thinking
about these characters. And also I was so shocked because
it's a sports show and I'm not a sports fan
right me either. So I'm going to set this clip
(04:19):
up for you. It starts in season two, Episode two,
and Roy Kent, as you know, the gruff, lovable former
team captain, has recently announced. I know I have a
real life Roy Kent in my life, my brother in law,
and it makes me just love the character so much.
Oh my god. So Roy Kent recently announced that he's
(04:40):
retiring from football aka soccer, and he's trying to figure
out what to do next. In the meantime, he's living
with his girlfriend Keiley and coaching like a children's soccer team,
which is so adorable because he takes it so seriously.
So cute. Okay, So one day he comes home from
coaching and he is looking for his girlfriend, Keiely, who's
(05:01):
at home, and he finds her in bed with her
phone and she's making some noises. What's she doing now, Nothing?
I thought that you were an intruder, and I didn't
want you to steal it. All right, I'm gonna pause
this clip because I can tell you already have something
(05:24):
to say. So to begin with, I want to say
it's a reality that in a long term, committed relationship,
people who masturbate before the relationship may still masturbate solo
even though they have a partner. It is normal and
in a long term relationship, especially a cohabiting relationship, if
(05:45):
partners are masturbating solo, people might walk in on each
other while masturbating. That's a thing that happens. And Keenly's
first response was to throw her phone, and that actually
surprised me because she is a character who I mean,
I think if her as a person who would not
be bothered by being interrupted or seen masturbating, like, she's
(06:07):
not afraid or a shame about her masturbation. It's one
of the things I love about her. It's what she's
watching that she's worried he'll find out about. But if
that's the case, it still makes her extraordinary because a
lot of people, whether they're the one being walked in
on or they're the one doing the walking in, might
(06:28):
have this big flash of shame in their body because
we have absolutely been taught to be ashamed of masturbation.
So here we have close to ideal modeling of how
to engage with the reality that a partner is masturbating solo,
even though in their committed relationship. Okay, so let's keep
going with this scene. Bye, come on, I'm embarrassed. Whatever
(06:50):
it is, it's fine. I like watching couples have sex
in the woods. Why because I could never be that free.
Come on, let me see, I should know what guesse
you're going. Okay, I'm gonna pause again, and we're not
done with the scene yet, but I feel like you're
going to have some big sex educator energy reaction to
what's happening here. I love that Roy wants to know
(07:15):
what she's watching, especially that he says, whatever it is,
it's fine, right, That's what makes it completely okay. If
he wanted to know because he felt jealous of the
porn or judgmental, or wanted to affirm that he isn't
grossed out by what she likes, that all would not
be great. But instead he's just purely curious. He wants
(07:36):
to know because he feels like it could enhance his
practice as a lover. Right, He is not questioning out
of a sense of vindictive like I should know what
you're doing sexually because i'm your boyfriend, because I want
to be in control of your sexuality, right, or there
are some things that are okay and some things that
are not okay. He's just like, whatever works for you,
(07:59):
I want to know so I can help get you
more turned on? Right, I love it. And he's so
confident in this like gorgeous, non judgmental, curious attitude that
they each have toward each other's sexual minds that he
helps convince her that he really won't judge her by
describing what he watches, and when she's surprised by that,
(08:25):
instead of being judgmental, she just asked why, and he says,
he says, this is so important. He says, the thing
that characterizes much porn consumption. Like a lot of people
are going to relate to this. He says, I could
never be that free. Why do you watch videos of
people having sex in the woods? I could never be
that free. Here we have Roy Kent. He is the
quintessential hyper masculine professional footballer. I could never be that free.
(08:52):
He watches it because it's something he fantasizes about but
would never bring himself to do in real life. And
it's amazing that he knows his limits. And like my heart,
in my heart, I really hope that he is really welcoming,
accepting of his limits and doesn't judge or shame himsel
for not wanting to have sex in a potentially public
place because that hits his brakes. It's normal. I mean,
(09:15):
it's normal for it not to hit the brakes, and
it's normal for it to hit the brakes. And I
hope that he accepts and welcomes and loves that he
is who he is. Honestly, one of the reasons I
chose this scene is because of that line. I think
you bring up such a good point, because like sometimes
the porn we watch or whatever we watch for stimulation
isn't about something that we actually want to do in
(09:36):
real life. It's not like it's a one to one.
It's just hitting our accelerator or triggering our accelerator, right am,
I right, But it's not like, yep, necessarily we have
to want to do that thing if we're watching it. Exactly.
The context of watching something that activates your accelerator is
totally different from the context of actually doing something that
maybe it activates the accelerator, but in real life it
(09:58):
would hit the brakes, like having sex in the woods,
right right, right, right right. I think a lot of
people can relate to that. So I want to take
a quick break before we get into the next part
of the scene, where we talk about what Keely has
been watching. All right, Okay, so we're back with a
(10:26):
special pop culture analysis episode that we're calling real Talk
Fake Sex, And in this episode we are talking about
ted Lasso, one of the only contemporary shows that Emily
Nagaski has seen what I have actually watched. Okay. So
Roy catches his girlfriend Keely masturbating to something on her phone.
(10:49):
He asks to see what she's watching, and they have
a little back and forth, a delightful back and forth
about that, and then Keily hands him her phone and
we see that Keely has been watching a YouTube video
of her boyfriend at a press conference. I am announcing
(11:15):
my retirement. Wow. Okay, So it turns out Keeley is
masturbating to her boyfriend announcing his retirement and crying yeah
about leaving the sport he loves. Oh my god, the fuck?
This is your kink? Maybe I pathetic? Not being pathetic,
(11:39):
you mean passionate and vulnerable. When he thinks about that video,
he thinks that it's him being pathetic. Yeah, but Keiley.
Keiley's like, it's not pathetic, it is passionate and vulnerable.
It's this reframe that tells us what she really loves
about him, not that he's a football player, but that
(12:02):
he can be passionate and vulnerable like that. For some reason,
I love the characters who like never smile in public
and they only ever in public express masculine emotions and
masculinity you're allowed to be angry, you're allowed to win,
and you're allowed to be horny, and that's basically it.
(12:22):
But if this stoic never smiles in public, never expresses
other emotions, then you get him in private and he
shares with you. They're soft, squishy insides. You get to
feel like you earn that tenderness and that vulnerability. That's
mister Darcy from Pride and Prejudice. Right in the beginning,
he never smiles, he's never sweet. But in the second
(12:46):
half he comes back and there's all this vulnerability and
passion and it's like he's a fried cheese stick of
a man with his crispy exterior and the warm, gooey inside.
Of course, it is hot that she has granted access
to his mozzarella insides, and I actually think that the
(13:06):
disappearance of Roy's bull nobility and passion after he retires
makes really good sense. Of course that goes away. Here's
the guy with the job that intensely validates his performance
of like high masculinity. You know how there's like high femme.
This is high masculinity. He is hairy and strong and big.
(13:29):
He's a professional athlete. And the confidence there are people
who chant his name because he's good a sport, but
because it's so validating, it gives him this confidence that
turns into permission to reveal his vulnerability. When he's with
his girl friend, she gets the gooey inside. He proves
(13:52):
that he is masculine enough when he's on the pitch
so that he doesn't have to prove that when he's
alone with her. And now because he has retired, he
doesn't have that validation anymore. The confidence that comes from
all of that validation, the confidence of the he knows
he's masculine enough to be vulnerable with Keiey. And of
(14:14):
course she misses it. Of course she does. After he
sees what she's watching, Roy says, this is your kink.
I'm curious what you think about him using the word
kink there, Like, maybe he's just using that term colloquially,
but what's going on there. I think he's really using
it just to indicate that he doesn't understand why that
would be sexy for her, in particular, when he finds
(14:37):
it the opposite of sexy, he finds it humiliating. It
would make sense for him to assume that what turns
her on is his masculine self. Like she's dating a footballer,
why wouldn't she masturbate to a video of him scoring
a literal goal? Because that's how he understands masculinity, that
(15:00):
it's that performance that women are interested in. And I
don't think at any point he thinks that she's turned
on by a video of anyone crying, which would like
put it into like I just like I love watching
people cry and that's what turns me on. I think
he understands from the beginning that it's the video of
him crying that turns her on. Well, it's interesting to
(15:23):
me that Keiely is turned on by this video even
though it's not sexual or explicit per se. What do
you make of that? Not sexual? According to whom? Because
it clearly activates Keiley's accelerator right as far as her
brain is concerned, this is a sex related stimulus so
(15:46):
strong that any amount of breaks hitting does not interfere.
She is into his emotion, his passion, his vulnerability that
it turns her on. Okay, So now I want to
bring you the last part of the scene. We leave
the moment where they're talking about the video and the masturbation.
(16:07):
The episode continues. Gets a new job as a pundit
on TV talking about soccer, which is something that Keely
had encouraged him to do because she thinks he'll love it,
and he does. He loves it. So he comes home
from his first day on the job and he's feeling
overwhelmed with emotion, overwhelmed with happiness. But it's impossible to
(16:31):
tell if Roy Kent is happy because he just looks
permanently grumpy. Had a guy come Bibe say something, Well,
you're just gonna pretend that you hated it. You're amazing
shits you many today, Okay, So let me just explain
(16:51):
what's happening in the scene because you can't see it, Okay.
So Roy takes Keeley's phone and he starts looking something
up on it, like typing into it, and he says
to her, he says, I want to thank you properly, okay,
and then he kneels in front of her, like in
between her legs, he puts her air pods in her ears,
(17:12):
and then he hands her back her phone, tells her
to press play, and and it's the video of him
crying at his retirement speech. So for the listeners, basically
he is going down on her while she watches this
video of him crying and in scene. So, I've watched
(17:37):
the whole series three times, and the first time I
saw this, when I realized why he was putting in
the air pods, I gasped and my jaw dropped and
I cried. I loved it so much because he's giving
her what she likes in a way where he doesn't
have to hear it himself. He just gets a big
old mouthful of puss. I didn't think about that that, Like,
(17:59):
he is not turned on by it. So by giving
her the AirPods, he doesn't even have to hear it.
It's all for her, right, And so for him to
bring it back up to be like, I know this
works for you, and I have no shame about that,
and I want it to keep working for you if
it's working for you, like that really struck me. I
would like to point out that what he chooses not
only does he choose the video. He also chooses Kona Lingus.
(18:24):
Maybe they have intercourse later, but like he chooses Kino
Lingus first, and season one established for us that Keiley
likes Kona Lingus. So he's choosing two things that really
center and prioritize her pleasure totally. Yes, So imagine a
real life Keiley and Roy couple, Like, how would you
(18:47):
see a video like this or stibulus like this playing
into their sex life Because I mean, I don't think
they would want to be watching it all the time,
or she would want to be watching it all the time.
It feels to me like in the story, it's fulfilling
the role of the vulnerability and passion that she used
to have access to directly through the man. And as
(19:08):
he continues to feel validated and connected with the game
he loves, which affirms his masculinity, he'll stay confident enough
to be vulnerable with Keeley and not lose the passion
and that authenticity that she finds such a turn on. So,
based on this scene and what you were talking about
(19:28):
about vulnerability and maybe things that turn people on being emotional, Like,
do you have any advice for real couples that might
be turned on by vulnerability, but struggling to access it
with each other. Yeah, I think the main thing to
understand is that we act invulnerable for reasons. Whether you're
(19:49):
following the it's a girl script you were handed or
the it's a boy script you were handed, you were
taught that certain emotions were acceptable and other emotions were
not acceptable, and you literally were punished for expressing the
emotions outside of the script that you were told was
here's everything you're allowed to say and do. So I
was told that I was ugly when I frowned, right,
(20:11):
and boys are told to be little men, boys don't cry.
Could we've actually been punished for these things. So if
we struggle to display these things in front of our
significant other, it's not for no reason, right, But there
is a lot of sexy potential when we behave outside
of our scripts. Yeah, Because like for me, you know,
(20:34):
I'm attracted to mostly films and women and seeing them
get angry is really hot to me. And that's something
that was outside of the film script you know that
we're told is acceptable. See, And what is it about
the anger? It's not the anger per se, right, that's hot, right,
It is the trust and authenticity that they're exhibiting with you,
(20:56):
that they know that you welcome that from them, that
it's okay, that you feel safe and you're not worried
about them expressing anger in front of you, Like we
are connected in this moment a way that is not
obstructed by all the cultural noise about what emotions are acceptable.
(21:17):
That is a hot take down. I think it would
be advanced to begin with tell me what you think
about or watch when you masturbate. Some couples are ready
for that conversation, but maybe just start with a gentler
conversation about tell me some of the good things you'd
like about our erotic connection, and gradually build up to
(21:40):
tell me what you think about our watch when you masturbate.
I love that this has not turned into a conversation
about watching stuff when you masturbate, and couples you know,
watching different things, but really the deeper conversation about emotional
erotic connection. I think you take a break, what do
you think definitely cool down? Yes, take a little cool down,
(22:02):
get a cold glass of water, and when we get back, Emily,
you're going to rate this scene as a sex educate.
So Emily, I have devised a five star rating system.
(22:24):
It is a zero to five star scale. Zero being
an active violence portrayed as eratica maybe something you would
have seen on Game of Thrones not to name any names,
but actually yes, to name a name there, and five
stars being like incredible, something that made your work as
a sex educator easier. I'm actually going to give this
(22:46):
scene at four point five. Wow, hell yeah, a very
high rating, right, a very high rating. Yeah. I mean,
you could have chosen something to torture me, but instead
you chose one of my favorite things in media, So
that's great. So what makes it a four point five?
What do you like about this scene? I love their
(23:07):
curiosity and non judgment of each other's erotic minds. I
love their communication. I love that they don't diss each other,
but they do ask questions. And on a superficial level,
it's a good model of how to approach the fact
(23:30):
that your partner masturbates without you, or the fact that
you masturbate without your partner. Right, that's the superficial level,
But on a deeper level, I feel like this is
a good model of how to navigate gender bullshit that
all of us are carrying around, regardless of your gender
or your partner's gender. There is some junk that is
just in you, and it prevents us from becoming our
(23:53):
full erotic selves. And this is a great example. Without
requiring Roy to change and become a person who like
articulates his feelings and flowing sonnets, he can still be
himself and also not buy into the lies that he's
not allowed to be vulnerable or passionate and that for
(24:14):
someone to love that about him is a kink. But
I can't go to a full five, right why. I
understand that they needed to be efficient in a storytelling.
I'm making a television show, but I do wish there
were more non genital touch before he goes right for
the vulva. Oh right, we can't see the video, but
he goes full face into the crotch in the final scene. Right.
(24:38):
So I like to imagine that in real life he
would spend some time with his hands all over her,
and his mouth on her knees and her in her
thighs and like all that very sensitive area before he
goes anywhere near the clit. And I want to mention
that I am making assumptions about her genital organization, that
he's a sisgender woman with it's a girl's parts. We
(24:59):
don't know that for sure, but I'm going to assume
THATTT for expediency right now. Another part that's missing is
that she's really worried. He says, give me your phone.
She doesn't know why she's giving him her phone. It's
only when she sees that he put on the video
that she knows everything is okay. And she goes from
worried too aroused in like two seconds and again expediency.
(25:26):
It's a television show, but like in real life, it
would probably take more of a warm up page. Sure,
that's a little bit unrealistic. All right, So you're giving
the scene from ted Lasso a four point five. I'm
putting it on the books, I'm marking it down, and
I'm sure the producers of ted Lasso will be very
(25:48):
impressed by that. Oh, they are definitely listening right now,
and they have a lot to say. I'm getting okay.
So next week we're going to answer another question, and
it's going to be about a concept that you introduced
me to, Emily, which is the Enthusiastic Maybe Okay. Commas
(26:19):
You Are is a production of Pushkin Industries and Madison Wells.
It's hosted by Emily Nagowsky. You can find Emily on
Instagram at e Nagosky and on Twitter at Emily Nagosky.
You can also sign up for her newsletter at Emily
Nagowsky dot com, where she writes about everything from the
clitterest in your mind to orgasm after having his directed me.
(26:41):
It's an incredible newsletter. Highly recommended. This show is co
hosted and lead produced by me mo La Board. You
can find me online at mola Board and on TikTok
at podcast dot slut, Sorry mom My. Co producer on
this show is the fabulous Brittany Brown. Our editor is
Kate Parkinson Morgan. Sound design and mix by Anne Pope.
(27:04):
Executive producers are Mia LaBelle and leetal Malade at Pushkin.
Thanks to Heather Faine, Carly Migliori, Sophie Crane, Courtney Guarino,
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(27:26):
Additional thanks to Rich Stevens, Lindsay Edgecombe, Frolick Media, and
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series was composed by Ameliagosky and arranged and recorded by
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(27:47):
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to listen
Pushkin. I'm Emmaline Nagowski and this is the Come as
you Are podcast where I answer questions about sex with science.
And in this episode, we're doing something a little different. Mo.
What are we doing today? Hey, Emily, So today we're
going to do an episode called real Talk, Fake Sex.
(00:38):
And here's how it works. I'm going to play you
a clip from pop culture. It could be anything about sex,
and you, as an expert sex educator, are going to
break it down for me and for the listeners, and
very importantly, at the end of the episode, I'm going
to ask you to rate the scene from zero stars
(00:59):
to five stars okay on the Emali Nagosky scale of
how great is this scene in terms of like, is
it violence portrayed as sex or is it actual doing
the work of sex educators everywhere and making everyone sex
life better? Yep? Pop culture can do everything in that range. Yep.
I know that you are a little averse to pop culture. Yeah,
(01:23):
to say that I live under a rock is maybe
it's not an understatement, but oh, it's very close to
the description. But in particular things about sexuality in pop culture.
Because I'm here to answer questions about sex with science
and So many of the myths that people bring to
(01:44):
me in their questions are things they learned from pop culture.
So the reason I'm willing to experience this torture of
listening to some pop culture thing is because I think
it's important for us to break down the myths as
they are represented to us. But some pop culture things
are really positive. Some of them are really good, and
it's worth highlighting those two. Actually, let me just do
(02:07):
a little survey really quickly. I get a sense of
where you're coming from in your pop culture knowledge. Are
you ready? Have you ever seen Sex in the City.
I have seen a fragment of one episode. Okay, okay,
good to know. Have you ever seen the Tracy Ellis
(02:30):
Raws show Girlfriends? No? Okay, have you ever seen the
show sex Education on Netflix? I have only seen the
meme of the girl who says, have you read that book?
Come as you are? Only Negowski? It's really good, just
because like a hundred people sent it to me. Do
(02:52):
you know most women's volves don't look likely do on Pornhub?
I was thought mine was a bit ugly because it's
not only top ten, but actually it's dead normal. Should
we come as you are. It's a great book. Okay.
Good to know that your starting place for pop culture
references is media that you are mentioned in. Okay, So
(03:15):
for this episode, I'm going to start with a softball
for you, and I think it is something you have
actually seen before, because you mentioned that you love the
show ted Lasso. Yes, so you barely watch any TV.
But what do you like about ted Lasso? It was
just this summer that I started watching it, actually because
(03:37):
I was looking for something like really positive, end uplifting
without a whole lot of like stressful drama. And it
hit that note and then some and I didn't know
that it was going to have such interesting sex and
relationship stories. I started it because like everyone was talking
about it, and then I was one of those things
(03:58):
where I just pressed play on one episode and then somehow,
like eight hours later, I had finished a whole season.
Oh yeah, and then your day is gone, yes exactly,
and I'm crying and I'm like, I can't stop thinking
about these characters. And also I was so shocked because
it's a sports show and I'm not a sports fan
right me either. So I'm going to set this clip
(04:19):
up for you. It starts in season two, Episode two,
and Roy Kent, as you know, the gruff, lovable former
team captain, has recently announced. I know I have a
real life Roy Kent in my life, my brother in law,
and it makes me just love the character so much.
Oh my god. So Roy Kent recently announced that he's
(04:40):
retiring from football aka soccer, and he's trying to figure
out what to do next. In the meantime, he's living
with his girlfriend Keiley and coaching like a children's soccer team,
which is so adorable because he takes it so seriously.
So cute. Okay, So one day he comes home from
coaching and he is looking for his girlfriend, Keiely, who's
(05:01):
at home, and he finds her in bed with her
phone and she's making some noises. What's she doing now, Nothing?
I thought that you were an intruder, and I didn't
want you to steal it. All right, I'm gonna pause
this clip because I can tell you already have something
(05:24):
to say. So to begin with, I want to say
it's a reality that in a long term, committed relationship,
people who masturbate before the relationship may still masturbate solo
even though they have a partner. It is normal and
in a long term relationship, especially a cohabiting relationship, if
(05:45):
partners are masturbating solo, people might walk in on each
other while masturbating. That's a thing that happens. And Keenly's
first response was to throw her phone, and that actually
surprised me because she is a character who I mean,
I think if her as a person who would not
be bothered by being interrupted or seen masturbating, like, she's
(06:07):
not afraid or a shame about her masturbation. It's one
of the things I love about her. It's what she's
watching that she's worried he'll find out about. But if
that's the case, it still makes her extraordinary because a
lot of people, whether they're the one being walked in
on or they're the one doing the walking in, might
(06:28):
have this big flash of shame in their body because
we have absolutely been taught to be ashamed of masturbation.
So here we have close to ideal modeling of how
to engage with the reality that a partner is masturbating solo,
even though in their committed relationship. Okay, so let's keep
going with this scene. Bye, come on, I'm embarrassed. Whatever
(06:50):
it is, it's fine. I like watching couples have sex
in the woods. Why because I could never be that free.
Come on, let me see, I should know what guesse
you're going. Okay, I'm gonna pause again, and we're not
done with the scene yet, but I feel like you're
going to have some big sex educator energy reaction to
what's happening here. I love that Roy wants to know
(07:15):
what she's watching, especially that he says, whatever it is,
it's fine, right, That's what makes it completely okay. If
he wanted to know because he felt jealous of the
porn or judgmental, or wanted to affirm that he isn't
grossed out by what she likes, that all would not
be great. But instead he's just purely curious. He wants
(07:36):
to know because he feels like it could enhance his
practice as a lover. Right, He is not questioning out
of a sense of vindictive like I should know what
you're doing sexually because i'm your boyfriend, because I want
to be in control of your sexuality, right, or there
are some things that are okay and some things that
are not okay. He's just like, whatever works for you,
(07:59):
I want to know so I can help get you
more turned on? Right, I love it. And he's so
confident in this like gorgeous, non judgmental, curious attitude that
they each have toward each other's sexual minds that he
helps convince her that he really won't judge her by
describing what he watches, and when she's surprised by that,
(08:25):
instead of being judgmental, she just asked why, and he says,
he says, this is so important. He says, the thing
that characterizes much porn consumption. Like a lot of people
are going to relate to this. He says, I could
never be that free. Why do you watch videos of
people having sex in the woods? I could never be
that free. Here we have Roy Kent. He is the
quintessential hyper masculine professional footballer. I could never be that free.
(08:52):
He watches it because it's something he fantasizes about but
would never bring himself to do in real life. And
it's amazing that he knows his limits. And like my heart,
in my heart, I really hope that he is really welcoming,
accepting of his limits and doesn't judge or shame himsel
for not wanting to have sex in a potentially public
place because that hits his brakes. It's normal. I mean,
(09:15):
it's normal for it not to hit the brakes, and
it's normal for it to hit the brakes. And I
hope that he accepts and welcomes and loves that he
is who he is. Honestly, one of the reasons I
chose this scene is because of that line. I think
you bring up such a good point, because like sometimes
the porn we watch or whatever we watch for stimulation
isn't about something that we actually want to do in
(09:36):
real life. It's not like it's a one to one.
It's just hitting our accelerator or triggering our accelerator, right am,
I right, But it's not like, yep, necessarily we have
to want to do that thing if we're watching it. Exactly.
The context of watching something that activates your accelerator is
totally different from the context of actually doing something that
maybe it activates the accelerator, but in real life it
(09:58):
would hit the brakes, like having sex in the woods,
right right, right, right right. I think a lot of
people can relate to that. So I want to take
a quick break before we get into the next part
of the scene, where we talk about what Keely has
been watching. All right, Okay, so we're back with a
(10:26):
special pop culture analysis episode that we're calling real Talk
Fake Sex, And in this episode we are talking about
ted Lasso, one of the only contemporary shows that Emily
Nagaski has seen what I have actually watched. Okay. So
Roy catches his girlfriend Keely masturbating to something on her phone.
(10:49):
He asks to see what she's watching, and they have
a little back and forth, a delightful back and forth
about that, and then Keily hands him her phone and
we see that Keely has been watching a YouTube video
of her boyfriend at a press conference. I am announcing
(11:15):
my retirement. Wow. Okay, So it turns out Keeley is
masturbating to her boyfriend announcing his retirement and crying yeah
about leaving the sport he loves. Oh my god, the fuck?
This is your kink? Maybe I pathetic? Not being pathetic,
(11:39):
you mean passionate and vulnerable. When he thinks about that video,
he thinks that it's him being pathetic. Yeah, but Keiley.
Keiley's like, it's not pathetic, it is passionate and vulnerable.
It's this reframe that tells us what she really loves
about him, not that he's a football player, but that
(12:02):
he can be passionate and vulnerable like that. For some reason,
I love the characters who like never smile in public
and they only ever in public express masculine emotions and
masculinity you're allowed to be angry, you're allowed to win,
and you're allowed to be horny, and that's basically it.
(12:22):
But if this stoic never smiles in public, never expresses
other emotions, then you get him in private and he
shares with you. They're soft, squishy insides. You get to
feel like you earn that tenderness and that vulnerability. That's
mister Darcy from Pride and Prejudice. Right in the beginning,
he never smiles, he's never sweet. But in the second
(12:46):
half he comes back and there's all this vulnerability and
passion and it's like he's a fried cheese stick of
a man with his crispy exterior and the warm, gooey inside.
Of course, it is hot that she has granted access
to his mozzarella insides, and I actually think that the
(13:06):
disappearance of Roy's bull nobility and passion after he retires
makes really good sense. Of course that goes away. Here's
the guy with the job that intensely validates his performance
of like high masculinity. You know how there's like high femme.
This is high masculinity. He is hairy and strong and big.
(13:29):
He's a professional athlete. And the confidence there are people
who chant his name because he's good a sport, but
because it's so validating, it gives him this confidence that
turns into permission to reveal his vulnerability. When he's with
his girl friend, she gets the gooey inside. He proves
(13:52):
that he is masculine enough when he's on the pitch
so that he doesn't have to prove that when he's
alone with her. And now because he has retired, he
doesn't have that validation anymore. The confidence that comes from
all of that validation, the confidence of the he knows
he's masculine enough to be vulnerable with Keiey. And of
(14:14):
course she misses it. Of course she does. After he
sees what she's watching, Roy says, this is your kink.
I'm curious what you think about him using the word
kink there, Like, maybe he's just using that term colloquially,
but what's going on there. I think he's really using
it just to indicate that he doesn't understand why that
would be sexy for her, in particular, when he finds
(14:37):
it the opposite of sexy, he finds it humiliating. It
would make sense for him to assume that what turns
her on is his masculine self. Like she's dating a footballer,
why wouldn't she masturbate to a video of him scoring
a literal goal? Because that's how he understands masculinity, that
(15:00):
it's that performance that women are interested in. And I
don't think at any point he thinks that she's turned
on by a video of anyone crying, which would like
put it into like I just like I love watching
people cry and that's what turns me on. I think
he understands from the beginning that it's the video of
him crying that turns her on. Well, it's interesting to
(15:23):
me that Keiely is turned on by this video even
though it's not sexual or explicit per se. What do
you make of that? Not sexual? According to whom? Because
it clearly activates Keiley's accelerator right as far as her
brain is concerned, this is a sex related stimulus so
(15:46):
strong that any amount of breaks hitting does not interfere.
She is into his emotion, his passion, his vulnerability that
it turns her on. Okay, So now I want to
bring you the last part of the scene. We leave
the moment where they're talking about the video and the masturbation.
(16:07):
The episode continues. Gets a new job as a pundit
on TV talking about soccer, which is something that Keely
had encouraged him to do because she thinks he'll love it,
and he does. He loves it. So he comes home
from his first day on the job and he's feeling
overwhelmed with emotion, overwhelmed with happiness. But it's impossible to
(16:31):
tell if Roy Kent is happy because he just looks
permanently grumpy. Had a guy come Bibe say something, Well,
you're just gonna pretend that you hated it. You're amazing
shits you many today, Okay, So let me just explain
(16:51):
what's happening in the scene because you can't see it, Okay.
So Roy takes Keeley's phone and he starts looking something
up on it, like typing into it, and he says
to her, he says, I want to thank you properly, okay,
and then he kneels in front of her, like in
between her legs, he puts her air pods in her ears,
(17:12):
and then he hands her back her phone, tells her
to press play, and and it's the video of him
crying at his retirement speech. So for the listeners, basically
he is going down on her while she watches this
video of him crying and in scene. So, I've watched
(17:37):
the whole series three times, and the first time I
saw this, when I realized why he was putting in
the air pods, I gasped and my jaw dropped and
I cried. I loved it so much because he's giving
her what she likes in a way where he doesn't
have to hear it himself. He just gets a big
old mouthful of puss. I didn't think about that that, Like,
(17:59):
he is not turned on by it. So by giving
her the AirPods, he doesn't even have to hear it.
It's all for her, right, And so for him to
bring it back up to be like, I know this
works for you, and I have no shame about that,
and I want it to keep working for you if
it's working for you, like that really struck me. I
would like to point out that what he chooses not
only does he choose the video. He also chooses Kona Lingus.
(18:24):
Maybe they have intercourse later, but like he chooses Kino
Lingus first, and season one established for us that Keiley
likes Kona Lingus. So he's choosing two things that really
center and prioritize her pleasure totally. Yes, So imagine a
real life Keiley and Roy couple, Like, how would you
(18:47):
see a video like this or stibulus like this playing
into their sex life Because I mean, I don't think
they would want to be watching it all the time,
or she would want to be watching it all the time.
It feels to me like in the story, it's fulfilling
the role of the vulnerability and passion that she used
to have access to directly through the man. And as
(19:08):
he continues to feel validated and connected with the game
he loves, which affirms his masculinity, he'll stay confident enough
to be vulnerable with Keeley and not lose the passion
and that authenticity that she finds such a turn on. So,
based on this scene and what you were talking about
(19:28):
about vulnerability and maybe things that turn people on being emotional, Like,
do you have any advice for real couples that might
be turned on by vulnerability, but struggling to access it
with each other. Yeah, I think the main thing to
understand is that we act invulnerable for reasons. Whether you're
(19:49):
following the it's a girl script you were handed or
the it's a boy script you were handed, you were
taught that certain emotions were acceptable and other emotions were
not acceptable, and you literally were punished for expressing the
emotions outside of the script that you were told was
here's everything you're allowed to say and do. So I
was told that I was ugly when I frowned, right,
(20:11):
and boys are told to be little men, boys don't cry.
Could we've actually been punished for these things. So if
we struggle to display these things in front of our
significant other, it's not for no reason, right, But there
is a lot of sexy potential when we behave outside
of our scripts. Yeah, Because like for me, you know,
(20:34):
I'm attracted to mostly films and women and seeing them
get angry is really hot to me. And that's something
that was outside of the film script you know that
we're told is acceptable. See, And what is it about
the anger? It's not the anger per se, right, that's hot, right,
It is the trust and authenticity that they're exhibiting with you,
(20:56):
that they know that you welcome that from them, that
it's okay, that you feel safe and you're not worried
about them expressing anger in front of you, Like we
are connected in this moment a way that is not
obstructed by all the cultural noise about what emotions are acceptable.
(21:17):
That is a hot take down. I think it would
be advanced to begin with tell me what you think
about or watch when you masturbate. Some couples are ready
for that conversation, but maybe just start with a gentler
conversation about tell me some of the good things you'd
like about our erotic connection, and gradually build up to
(21:40):
tell me what you think about our watch when you masturbate.
I love that this has not turned into a conversation
about watching stuff when you masturbate, and couples you know,
watching different things, but really the deeper conversation about emotional
erotic connection. I think you take a break, what do
you think definitely cool down? Yes, take a little cool down,
(22:02):
get a cold glass of water, and when we get back, Emily,
you're going to rate this scene as a sex educate.
So Emily, I have devised a five star rating system.
(22:24):
It is a zero to five star scale. Zero being
an active violence portrayed as eratica maybe something you would
have seen on Game of Thrones not to name any names,
but actually yes, to name a name there, and five
stars being like incredible, something that made your work as
a sex educator easier. I'm actually going to give this
(22:46):
scene at four point five. Wow, hell yeah, a very
high rating, right, a very high rating. Yeah. I mean,
you could have chosen something to torture me, but instead
you chose one of my favorite things in media, So
that's great. So what makes it a four point five?
What do you like about this scene? I love their
(23:07):
curiosity and non judgment of each other's erotic minds. I
love their communication. I love that they don't diss each other,
but they do ask questions. And on a superficial level,
it's a good model of how to approach the fact
(23:30):
that your partner masturbates without you, or the fact that
you masturbate without your partner. Right, that's the superficial level,
But on a deeper level, I feel like this is
a good model of how to navigate gender bullshit that
all of us are carrying around, regardless of your gender
or your partner's gender. There is some junk that is
just in you, and it prevents us from becoming our
(23:53):
full erotic selves. And this is a great example. Without
requiring Roy to change and become a person who like
articulates his feelings and flowing sonnets, he can still be
himself and also not buy into the lies that he's
not allowed to be vulnerable or passionate and that for
(24:14):
someone to love that about him is a kink. But
I can't go to a full five, right why. I
understand that they needed to be efficient in a storytelling.
I'm making a television show, but I do wish there
were more non genital touch before he goes right for
the vulva. Oh right, we can't see the video, but
he goes full face into the crotch in the final scene. Right.
(24:38):
So I like to imagine that in real life he
would spend some time with his hands all over her,
and his mouth on her knees and her in her
thighs and like all that very sensitive area before he
goes anywhere near the clit. And I want to mention
that I am making assumptions about her genital organization, that
he's a sisgender woman with it's a girl's parts. We
(24:59):
don't know that for sure, but I'm going to assume
THATTT for expediency right now. Another part that's missing is
that she's really worried. He says, give me your phone.
She doesn't know why she's giving him her phone. It's
only when she sees that he put on the video
that she knows everything is okay. And she goes from
worried too aroused in like two seconds and again expediency.
(25:26):
It's a television show, but like in real life, it
would probably take more of a warm up page. Sure,
that's a little bit unrealistic. All right, So you're giving
the scene from ted Lasso a four point five. I'm
putting it on the books, I'm marking it down, and
I'm sure the producers of ted Lasso will be very
(25:48):
impressed by that. Oh, they are definitely listening right now,
and they have a lot to say. I'm getting okay.
So next week we're going to answer another question, and
it's going to be about a concept that you introduced
me to, Emily, which is the Enthusiastic Maybe Okay. Commas
(26:19):
You Are is a production of Pushkin Industries and Madison Wells.
It's hosted by Emily Nagowsky. You can find Emily on
Instagram at e Nagosky and on Twitter at Emily Nagosky.
You can also sign up for her newsletter at Emily
Nagowsky dot com, where she writes about everything from the
clitterest in your mind to orgasm after having his directed me.
(26:41):
It's an incredible newsletter. Highly recommended. This show is co
hosted and lead produced by me mo La Board. You
can find me online at mola Board and on TikTok
at podcast dot slut, Sorry mom My. Co producer on
this show is the fabulous Brittany Brown. Our editor is
Kate Parkinson Morgan. Sound design and mix by Anne Pope.
(27:04):
Executive producers are Mia LaBelle and leetal Malade at Pushkin.
Thanks to Heather Faine, Carly Migliori, Sophie Crane, Courtney Guarino,
Jason Gambrel, Julia Barton, John Schnars, and Jacob Weisberg at
Madison Wells. Thanks to Kylie Williams, Elizabeth Goodstein, and Gg Pritzker.
(27:26):
Additional thanks to Rich Stevens, Lindsay Edgecombe, Frolick Media, and
Peter Acker at Armadillo Audio Group. Original music for this
series was composed by Ameliagosky and arranged and recorded by
Alexandra Kalinovsky. Additional music from Epidemic Sound. You can find
(27:47):
Pushkin on all social platforms at pushkin Pods, and you
can sign up for our newsletter at pushkin dot fm.
If you love this show and others from Pushkin Industries,
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(28:08):
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