November 16, 2022 • 37 mins
The pandemic is really killing the mood and making it hard to prioritize pleasure. A listener calls in about losing the motivation to have sex, even with herself. To help answer the listener's question, Emily introduces groundbreaking research known as the "dual control model" and offers a simple but radical shift in the way we think about horniness.
If you have a question for Emily, call the Come As You Are hotline at (646) 397-8557 or send a voice memo to emily@pushkin.fm. Tell us your pronouns and pseudonym (pick a name, any name!) Your question might be answered on the show.
SHOW NOTES:
Check out Emily’s free worksheets on her website to start applying the science of the dual control model to your own life.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin hi, and I'm going in. I have a question
for you. The other day I realized I haven't masturbated
in like six months, and I just don't feel like
my old self. You know, I get this question all
(00:38):
the time, and mostly people expect me to say things like, oh,
watch more porn and use fuzzy handcuffs. But actually the
answer is sexual interest changes all the time and it
doesn't mean that there's anything wrong at all. And instead
of worrying about how sexual interest comes and goes, can
we focus instead on whether or not you're experiencing pleasure
(01:02):
in your life. I'm Emmilinagaski and this is the Come
as you Are podcast, where I answer questions about sex
with science. In this episode, I want to introduce you
to a really simple, but radical shift in the way
we think about sexual interest. Pop culture teaches us it's
(01:25):
all about getting turned on. Movies and TV portrayals of
sexual desire have led us to a collective misunderstanding about
how horniness really works, as in, how it works in
our brains. So today we're going to talk about the
real way horniness works. It's called the dual control model,
(01:48):
and it is, in my opinion, one of the single
most important, most life changing pieces of research on human sexuality.
I'm going to be answering a listener's question today, and
bringing me that question is my producer mo I'm hey, Emily.
Here we are. It's our very first episode of the
Come As You Are Podcast. How are you feeling about it?
(02:10):
It's thrilling. Are you thrilled? I'm thrilled. I'm feeling really good.
I also just feel really lucky to be on this
show with you. Like one, I'm, you know, sematically incapable
of chill, like I'm a very overeager person. But also
it's very special for me to get to work with you,
in particular because I read your book Come As You
(02:32):
Are when I was in college. I went to the
University of North Carolina UNC Chapel Hill, and your book
was something I found on a suggested reading list, I
think in a women's studies course, and I just fell
in love with the message of your book, and I
kept Come As You Are on my mantelpiece in my
like off campus college house as a symbol for everyone
(02:54):
that came over to my house that like, I own
my body and I'm having sex for me and I'm
pursuing my own pleasure, and it was a big part
of like my young slut era. And I really appreciate
that a gift you gave me. That's amazing. I love that.
I feel like it could not possibly be random chance,
like we were destined to work on this project together. Yeah,
(03:18):
your book really did change my perspective on so many things,
and so when I heard that you were working on
this show, I was like, please pick me, pick me.
It was raising my hand really hard. I love that.
Another reason I'm so excited for this podcast to exist
because like I grew up in a small town in
North Carolina, and I had abstinence only sex said, and
(03:40):
I was a like unknowing at the time, little gay kid,
and I basically was horrified and scared by the sexual
education that I got or the lack of sexual education
that I got. But the little that I did get
was basically like STDs can kill you, and if you
have sex once, you're ruined forever and no one will
(04:01):
want you after that, And that really it affected me.
And I think having real and non judgment information, like
the message that you have income as you are and
in all your work, like having that out there actually
makes a huge difference in people's everyday sex lives. Well yeay,
(04:23):
And I see my work as being the opposite of
absinence only education. Not because I'm like everybody should have
sex all the time. I think people should have sex
when and how they choose too when is right for themselves,
but because I believe that sex need not be scary
in our lives. I think that if we can embrace
(04:44):
pleasure into our lives, That's really the whole basis of
my work. It's the whole basis of the show. The
Prelude episode with Adrian Marie Brown, if you haven't heard
it yet, please go back and listen to it. Yes,
that's really the foundation of everything we're going to be
talking about. Heart agree. I put a lot of special
love into the Prelude, But this episode is our first
(05:07):
episode where we're going to be serring a listener question.
So we got a message on the come as you
are hotline six four six, three nine seven eight five
five seven. I chose it because it really speaks to
the time we're in right now, like the pandemic has
changed a lot of our relationships with ourselves and of
(05:29):
course with sex and with masturbation, but also just pleasure
on the day to day, like just everyday pleasures and happiness.
I think you're absolutely right. Rates of mental health struggles
have vastly increased. People's sense of overwhelm and exhaustion and
acxistential dread have increased vastly just over the last couple
(05:50):
of years. And is that going to interfere with our
sex lives? You bet your bippy right exactly. Yes. I
wanted to pull a question from a caller whose sexual
desire or horniness has basically changed drastically during the pandemic.
All right, so here we go. Hi. My name is Sarah,
(06:13):
my pronouns are she her. I'm thirty four and single,
and I used to have a lot of fun with myself.
I had and I still have all these fancy toys.
But over the last few years, it's like my desire
to masturbate has just completely faded away. Like the other day,
I realized I haven't masturbated in like six months, and
(06:34):
I just don't feel like my old self washing porn
does not cross my mind. I bought this new toy
to even help me get back in the mood, and
I've only used it once, I don't even want to
get out there and date because I'm just not motivated
by sex. It sounds like work to me, and I
don't know what's wrong, Like by the time I get
(06:55):
home from work, walk my dog, make dinner, I just
want to sit down and watch TV. And I feel
really tired all the time. And so I wonder if
you can help me figure out what's wrong with me.
This answer might shock you, but no, I can't explain
what's wrong with you because there is nothing wrong with you.
(07:21):
Everything that we're hearing in this question is just Sarah's
brain responding normally to an abnormal world. What science do
we need to understand to answer this question for Sarah? Okay,
this is thrilling for me. It's like I'm introducing you
(07:41):
to my most famous friend. Welcome to the dual control model,
how our brains process sex related information. Dual control model
means there's two parts. In the first part is that
sexual accelerator that gets turned on. It notices all the
sexy information in the environment. That's everything you feel with
(08:05):
your basic senses, what you see here, smell, touch, taste,
but also the things that you think, believe, or imagine
and also the sensations inside your body, the sexual excitation system.
The accelerator notices all of that, and it sends that
turn on signal the many of us are familiar with.
(08:25):
But also at the same time, in parallel, you have
breaks that are noticing all the good reasons not to
be turned on right now, everything with your basic senses,
the everything you see here, smell, touch, taste, and everything
you think, believe or imagine, and all the sensations in
your body, it notices everything that's a potential threat, and
(08:50):
it sends the turn off signal. So arousal is not
just the process of turning on the OS. It's also,
and more importantly, the process of turning off the offs.
When people are struggling, the usual advice of how to
deal with any difficulty around arousal pleasure, desire, orgasm, The
(09:13):
usual advice you hear is like, let's add stimulation to
the accelerator, watching porn, doing roleplay, handcoffs, all that stuff.
And sometimes that can work and can be great. But
a lot of the time when people are struggling, it's
not because there's too little stimulation to the accelerator. It's
because there is too much stimulation to the breaks. Our
(09:35):
listener says, it's been a couple of years. What's been
happening the last couple of years, right, I don't know,
a global pandemic where your breath could potentially carry a
lethal virus that might hit the break as like a
good reason not to be turned on right now as
a potential threat. She says, the dating feels just like
(09:57):
a lot of work, no kidding. The first time I
heard this, MLA, this truly blew my mind. May do
and what I especially love. So this is one of
my favorite things about the dual control model is that
there can be some stimuli that both hit the accelerator
and hit the brake, especially someone like you who grew
(10:20):
up being told that sex is like dirty and dangerous.
Sex related stimuli will activate the accelerator because it's sex related,
but also you were taught it's dirty and dangerous, and
so it's also going to hit the break. And what's
effect is that going to have on your sexual arousal
sexual interest? WHOA if you try to drive a car
(10:40):
with your foot on the accelerator and on the brake
at the same time, how does that go? Wow? Wow
wow wow? Okay, listeners can't see me. But I just
took my cowboy hat off, so I can process what
you just said. A lot of feelings about that that
I didn't know. We're there, Like, of course something can
hit my accelerator, but if I was told my whole
(11:02):
life that it shouldn't hit my accelerator, then it can
also that same thing can also be hitting my brake. Oh,
this is something I should process later with my therapist.
I was gonna say that sounds like something you should
talk to your therapist about, but I want to make
(11:23):
sure that you know that your breaks and accelerator can
be trained. So in the same way that your breaks
learned to respond to sex related stimuli, they can learn
not to respond just by practicing having a little bit
of exposure and relaxing, feeling calm and safe, and allowing
(11:45):
the shame that you absorbed from culture to let go.
Like your sex life will only get better because of
this revelation. So that's one of the really powerful things.
Way beyond just like turn ons and turn offs? Is
this just a like in just like one is Ambivalence
is totally normal because of the way your brain has
been trained to respond to stimuli. And the other thing
(12:08):
is that the same stimulus in one context might activate
the accelerator, but in a different context it'll hit the brakes.
Like if you are like private and the door is
locked and you know you're not going to be interrupted,
and you're feeling really aroused and turned on and trusting
of your partner. If you have a partner, it can
(12:29):
feel really fun to be tickled. But if you're in
the grocery store having a fight with your partner and
they try to tickle you, that sensation is not going
to activate the accelerator. And that is normal. I cannot
tell you how many people have asked me if there's
something about their body that's broken, because a sensation that
(12:50):
really turns them on in one context either doesn't turn
them on or is actively annoying in a different context. Right,
breaks an accelerator, girls, what you need to know? Okay,
I think it's really important to clarify that, Like, you're
not talking about the break an accelerator as a metaphor, right,
(13:12):
This is not a metaphor. This is the literal way
our brain's process information. Yes, because it's a real thing
that is really happening in your real, actual brain. You
are an animal with a body. You have a head,
there's a skull, and inside that skull there's a brain.
And inside that brain is a cluster of neuroconnections that
(13:33):
respond to sexuality, some of them to activate arousal and
some of them to stop arousal. I literally remember the day.
It was nineteen ninety nine. I was sitting in the
counseling office at Indiana University in John Bancroft was explaining
the dual control model. He drew a picture of the
(13:53):
brain and the spine as he was explaining, and I
was like, Oh, there's a break that this was a
physical mechanism that literally existed in the central nervous system,
the excitatory and inhibitory impulses. This is not a metaphor.
This is the literal way our brain's process information. Right.
(14:17):
One of the reasons I chose this question is because
she is just talking about her experience with masturbation, and
I never really thought about masturbation having these same levers
of turn ons and turn offs before. I've only thought
about that in the context of like partnered sex. But
you're saying it's the same system whether it's masturbation or
(14:38):
partnered sex. Right, Yeah, it's the same brain. What about
this question makes you think that the dual control model
is the answer the breaks and the accelerator is the
answer to Sarah's question. You know, there are two phrases.
First of all, there's I don't feel like my old self,
which indicates that there was a change. And often when
(15:00):
there's a change, people think it's something about themselves that
has changed, when actually what has changed is the text
in which her brain is interpreting all this information. So
she's not broken. Something happened in the world that made
her brain adapt and adjust, and that's totally normal when
(15:21):
you understand that, yes, there's an accelerator, and also, yes,
there's a break that's responding to a global crisis. Oh,
it's not me, it's the world. This is my brain
responding normally to some very nutso stuff that's happening in
the world. And the other sentence was it just feels
(15:44):
like a lot of work. It sounds like a lot
of work to me. Yeah, right, that's there being a
lot of pressure on the brakes. Oh interest, especially for
a person who has a history of really enjoying masturbating
their accelerator. We know responds really well because they have
this history of being aroused and enjoying sexuality, and now
(16:07):
a bunch of stuff that's hit the brain, and it
feels like a lot of work. What's changed is nothing
about this person, but just the world that their brain
is processing. More stuff is there that hits the brakes.
So like if, for example, she made a list of
today all the things she knows activate the accelerator and
all the things that she knows are hitting the brakes,
(16:28):
and then she thought back to you know, twenty nineteen,
for example, or twenty sixteen even better, and made a
list of things that activated or accelerator then and things
that hit the brakes then, and compared, you'd be able
to see, Oh, it's not that I change, it's just
the context changed, right. I actually have worksheets for this
(16:56):
in the company you are workbooking, and you're getting download
them for free from my website, where you think through
multiple and it actually really helps to think through multiple
experiences because if you get up to three, you're gonna
start noticing patterns in what activates your accelerator and what
hits your breaks. Yeah, I'll put the link to that
worksheet in the show notes, and I'm going to text
(17:16):
my girlfriend right now and be like, let's fill out
these sexy worksheets tonight. I think we should take a break.
What do you think perfect? And then when we get
back we can talk about how to apply this science
in the real world. And I think we can answer
Sarah's question. Okay, I want to recap the question. So
(17:48):
we got to call in at the commas. You are
hotline six four six three nine seven eight five five seven,
and it's from a listener who uses the pseudonym Sarah.
She's thirty four in single and she used to love
I actually found a few synonyms for masturbation online. That's
what the internet is for. It is, in fact, for that.
(18:11):
So let me just try out of few, and you
tell me which ones you like better. Okay, Oh my god.
She used to love poaching the egg. This is my
personal favorite. She used to love debugging her hard drive.
What that's hilarious. Sorry, She used to love softening the peach.
(18:33):
She used to love burping the worm. Oh my god. Okay,
what that makes sense of a person who jaculates? It's
burping a baby. Oh Emily, that got so much worse.
Oh my god, I'm sorry you hadn't. No, of course
you hadn't thought of that. No, um giving herself a
(18:56):
hand typical. That's good. Okay, you got the picture of
how Sarah used to be. I do. Okay, great, um,
But recently something has changed, so hang on, let me
play the clip. Over the last few years, it's like
my desire to masturbate has just completely faded away. Like
(19:17):
the other day, I realized I haven't masturbated in like
six months, and I just don't feel like my old
self washing porn does not cross my mind. I bought
this new toy to even help me get back in
the mood, and I've only used it once. I don't
even want to get out there and date because I'm
just not motivated by sex. Before we even get into
(19:38):
answering this question, I want to start with an even
more basic question to you, which is is this is
there something wrong with like losing interest in masturbating. Let's
say you know you don't masturbate. Somebody doesn't masturbate for
five years and they just don't want to, like, does
that mean that something has broken in their brain? Oh
heck no. It is absolutely normal for interest in sex
(20:01):
to come and go if you will. There is a
natural ebb and flow to our interest in sex that's
influent by the larger context. So, for example, at the
beginning of a relationship, the hot and heavy, fallen in love,
that creates a context that makes it really easy to
think about sex kind of all the time. Compare that
(20:23):
to being in the middle of a I don't know,
global disaster, and that creates a context that really puts
sex on the back burner. Science has shown us all
along that nothing bad happens to you if you don't
experience sex per se. So if we are still maintaining
(20:44):
adequate love and connection, then sex can go away, and
it is no kind of emergency. It's just an indication
that other things have piled up in our priority list
that have to be cleared away to free up the
break so that our accelerator can do what it's there
to do. What I also noticed in this question is
(21:07):
that she says she doesn't even think about it. Sex
drops off the priority list. We're thinking about all this
other things, dealing with family and dealing with work and
life and all that stuff, and sex goes away. It's
that we've deprioritized pleasure in the midst of all of
our stress and strife and struggle. And we've also given
(21:30):
the nature of the pandemic, we've lost access to the
resources we used to spend on self care. And we
know from the statistics that women and fems have had
this hit them especially hard. They're the ones who have
had to leave their employment. They've been at home maybe
with kids. And when you are stuck in parenting mode
(21:52):
and caretaking mode, that is a million miles away from sexy,
aroused pleasure in my body mode. Right, So we know
that it has taken a toll on people's well being,
cutting them off not just from social support, but also
from the mental wherewithal to transition into a space of
(22:16):
appreciating and loving the sensations of their bodies. Yeah, that's
so true. Like we talk about the toll it took
on our social well being and how actually we realized
all these social connections are really important to our mental health,
but there hasn't been that big conversation about how the
pandemic that we're living in has changed our sexual well being.
And fair enough, like the social connection is a literal drive.
(22:39):
We die without it. It is more important, But sex
is one of the key ways that humans give and
receive love and care. Could you talk about some of
the common things that hits people's breaks, Like what is
an example of something that hits the breaks that's a
habit or a pattern in our lives. The daily habits
(23:01):
mostly are a matter of getting just absorbed in the
management of life. So like the amount of time we
have to spend working or dealing with our families, or
taking care of our basic fundamental needs, feeding ourselves, cleaning ourselves,
managing schedules and time with other people, and writing checks
(23:25):
to pay bills. Like life is complicated and we are busy,
and it is so easy for pleasure and sexuality to
just feel like they're off, way in the distance. In
the same way that these daily habits interfere with our
access to pleasure, it takes a daily habit of prioritizing pleasure.
(23:47):
If half an hours too much, make it three minutes
where you just notice something pleasurable. If it's mindfully eating food,
that's a pleasure. If it is standing in the shower
and feeling your skin like as you wash your body,
really noticing the sensation of soapy water dripping down your skin,
like notice the pleasure, and remember that you are actually
(24:11):
alive in your body, not just moving from task to task. Right,
So it doesn't necessarily have to be like a sexual
thing that is hitting the brakes or hitting the accelerator.
It could be it could be something like a great shower,
not necessarily sexual hitting the accelerating. The most important things
about understanding the breaks is that most of the things
(24:32):
that hit the brakes have nothing to do with sex.
Even though I feel like it probably is the case
that when people are raised with sex negative education, a
lot of those breaks that they're learning are related to sex.
Most of it is just like the rest of our lives, interfering.
Do you have any other practical advice for Sarah? It
(24:53):
seems like she wants to masturbate again and wants to
really enjoy that connection, like wants to want it again.
That seems like her question. She's like, I want to
want it again? Why don't I? What's the problem? Do
you have any sex specific advice? I'm not actually sure
because she feels like there's something wrong with her that
it's gone. So I believe that step one is grand
(25:16):
your self permission not to be interested for a while,
Deliberately choose to feel normal, healthy and happy and not
interested in sex for a while. No one is ever
under any obligation to be interested in sex ever, So
try that first and then begin to explore other pleasures.
(25:40):
Create space, the space that you've been using to worry
about sex. Use that instead for space to experience all
the many different ways that we experience pleasure in our
daily lives, from the satisfaction of like lying down in
bed with clean, fresh sheets. Showers are always a big one.
(26:01):
Food is always an opportunity for a pleasure, walking outside
and feeling the breeze and the sun and watching leaves
change if you live in a place where leaves change.
And then see if interest in sex begins to bubble
back up, and if it doesn't know worries, and if
it does, gently pursue it. I love the suggestions that
(26:22):
you have for like activating the accelerator again are they
don't involve spending any money. They're just experiences that you
have in your body of like taking a shower, eating
something really delicious, Like they don't It's not about buying
the two hundred dollars dildo, right, Those are the shower
(26:43):
and the food or things you were going to do
any exactly. Yes, Yes, I love that. And I think
a lot of times we're told and she even says
she bought a new toy and thought that was going
to do it, and no, it didn't work. Right, it's
just another piece of hardware to ignore. Yeah, a lot
of times we're told like, oh, are you losing interest
in sex? Buy stuff by this thing, buy that thing,
(27:05):
and that that'll rejuvenate your sex life. But I think
that really gets to the point you were saying earlier,
that like, it's not necessarily about juicing the accelerator more
and more and more I'm buying more stuff. It's about
like finding a way to turn off the brakes so
that you really are noticing you. Even more than that,
I think people do feel this sort of obligation to
(27:29):
be interested in sex. We're told that if you're not
interested in sex, there's some sort of problem with you
and your body. You need to always be trying to
want sex, to try sexy new things, and we can't
just allow our brains and bodies to just shift away
from sexuality for a while. And here's the irony. If
(27:50):
you believe you are supposed to be interested in sex,
all the time and you are not interested in sex.
Does that activate your accelerator? No? Right, It just that
feeling of like I'm supposed to want sex, but I
don't want sex. It just hits your brakes some more So,
if you believe you need to juice the accelerate, that
belief is probably just making it more difficult for you
(28:13):
to want or like any sexual experience than might present
itself to you. Oh my god, I love that you're
saying this. So you're saying like Sarah's sitting on the
couch watching TV. At the end of the day, she's
feeling guilty about the fact that she has masturbated in
six months, and that is not helping her have a
great experience of wanting to masturbate next week. It's it's
doing the opposite instead of getting the full pleasure that
(28:35):
she could be getting from watching she Hulk. Yes, I
was gonna say great British Bakoff, but she Hulk. Same, same,
same difference. We're going to take a quick break and
when we get back, Emily, I want you to like
sum up the basics of the dual control model a TLGR.
(28:56):
If you will, I hope you enjoy the company of
my most famous friend. I did enjoy the company of
your most famous friend, and I have a feeling we're
going to be seeing her again and again and again
on this series. Yes, indeed, we'll be right back. We're back,
(29:20):
and it's time for a classic Emmally Nagowski tlgr let
us recap. So sexual response is actually a dual process
of turning on the os and also crucially turning off
the offs. And when we're struggling, the solution is more
often about turning off the offs than it is about
(29:42):
turning on the odds. And that's especially true when we
are still living through a pandemic. There are so many
things hitting our breaks these days, so I want to
make sure we offer some practical tips for how to
turn off the offs. I have five practical tips for
you ready. First, consider what activates your accelerator and what
(30:07):
hits your brakes. This can be as simple as writing
those pairs of lists off the top of your head.
Like you already know, the smell of your partner's skin
when they come in from having done yard work is
something that activates the accelerat. You know that reading romance
novels in the bathtub activates the accelerator. You know that stress,
body image stuff, parenting stuff, especially a bad day in
(30:28):
the news, hits the brakes. It might help instead to
think about two or three different experiences you've had sexually
that were great or just okay, and compare what happened
in those experiences that it activated the accelerator and what
hit the brakes. That's step one. Step two is to
(30:49):
assess your current context. Once you have a sense of
what impacts your sexual response, compare that to what's happening
in your life right now. If you're struggling to find
a new romance author to spend some time within the tub,
or if you can't be close to your partner because
they're traveling a lot from work. Is there news consistently
(31:09):
that turns your experience of the world into like navigating
a hellscape. Those are things that are influencing the way
your brain is processing sex related information and potential threats.
So assess your context is number two. Third. Categorize these
aspects of your context as things you can control and
(31:32):
things you can't control. You can ask folks for book
recommendations so you can have some control over I can't
find a new author to read. You can set limits
on how often or how deeply you consume the news.
You have permission not to consume the news. You have
some control there too. To have control over your context.
(31:52):
Maybe you can't control your partner's work, travel, And remember
I recommend that you focus especially on the stuff that's
hitting the brakes, since those are more likely to have
an impact, but some of them you may have no
control over. You have no control over the actual what
the news is, but you do have some control over
your degree of exposure to it. Fourth, choose a small
(32:16):
number of the things that you can control and make
a plan to create change. To help you select what
to focus on, it can help to rank the controllable
variables of your context by how easy or difficult they
would be to change, and by how much of an
impact they would have. Right, so the easy to change
big impact factors those are the low hanging fruit. Easy
(32:39):
to change low impact factors may make a small difference,
but they're still worth doing right not just for these
small change they make, but also they increase your experience
of self efficacy. Like see I can make a change
if I decide to do it, which can help you
feel more confident when you go on to tackle those
more difficult to change but higher impact factors. And then, finally,
(33:01):
above all, especially in a situation like this, listeners, remember
the goal is simply to spend pleasurable time with your body.
It doesn't have to be about adventure or novelty or wildness.
It's not furry handcuffs and porn. It certainly doesn't have
to be about orchasm. God knows. It's just time to
(33:22):
practice engaging pleasurably with your own body, mind, and spirit,
so that as your context shifts more toward an accelerator
activating less breaks hitting life, you have plenty of experience
connecting you erotically with yourself so that you're ready when
(33:42):
the moment comes. So to speak, no pun intended. A
moment comes. The amount of cumpuns we're gonna have on
the show is about to be simply irresponsible. Make sure
that you subscribe to Come as you are so that
(34:04):
you are notified about next week's episode when it comes
out on Wednesday. And we're going to be answering another
real listener question. This time it's about a very crooked penis.
And if you're like me and you're thinking penis as
you yawn, I'm over them. This episode is about much
more than just the penis. Emily teaches me a mind
(34:25):
blowing anatomy one oh one lesson about genital structures, and
I come away a changed woman. I see by clitterists
like an entirely different organ Now, so you know it,
hit subscribe. How was that? Was that? Good? Amazing? God?
This is so fun and it's your job. Do I
(34:47):
get better than that? No, it doesn't get better than that.
Welcome to My World, Come as You Are is a
production of Pushkin Industries and Madison Wells. It's hosted by
Emily Nagosky. You can find Emily on Instagram at e
Nigowski and on Twitter at Malin Nagowski. You can also
(35:11):
sign up for her newsletter at emil Nagosky dot com,
where she writes about everything from the clitterest in your
mind to orgasm after having hysterected me. It's an incredible newsletter.
Highly recommended. This show is co hosted and lead produced
by me Mola Board. You can find me online at
Mola Board and on TikTok at podcast dot slut Sorry mom.
(35:35):
My co producer on this show is the Fabulous Britney Brown.
Our editor is Kate Parkinson Morgan Sound design and mixed
by Anne Pope. Executive producers are Mia LaBelle and leetal
Malade at Pushkin Thanks to Heather Faine, Carly Migliori, Sophie Crane,
Courtney Guarino, Jason Gambrel, Julia Barton, John Schnars, and Jacob Weisberg.
(35:59):
At Madison Wells thanks to Kylie Williams, Elizabeth Goodstein and
Gg Pritzker. Additional thanks to Rich Stevens, Lindsay Edgecombe Frolic Media,
and Peter Acker at Armadillo Audio Group. Original music for
this series was composed by Amelianagowski and arranged and recorded
(36:20):
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(36:42):
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to listen.
Pushkin hi, and I'm going in. I have a question
for you. The other day I realized I haven't masturbated
in like six months, and I just don't feel like
my old self. You know, I get this question all
(00:38):
the time, and mostly people expect me to say things like, oh,
watch more porn and use fuzzy handcuffs. But actually the
answer is sexual interest changes all the time and it
doesn't mean that there's anything wrong at all. And instead
of worrying about how sexual interest comes and goes, can
we focus instead on whether or not you're experiencing pleasure
(01:02):
in your life. I'm Emmilinagaski and this is the Come
as you Are podcast, where I answer questions about sex
with science. In this episode, I want to introduce you
to a really simple, but radical shift in the way
we think about sexual interest. Pop culture teaches us it's
(01:25):
all about getting turned on. Movies and TV portrayals of
sexual desire have led us to a collective misunderstanding about
how horniness really works, as in, how it works in
our brains. So today we're going to talk about the
real way horniness works. It's called the dual control model,
(01:48):
and it is, in my opinion, one of the single
most important, most life changing pieces of research on human sexuality.
I'm going to be answering a listener's question today, and
bringing me that question is my producer mo I'm hey, Emily.
Here we are. It's our very first episode of the
Come As You Are Podcast. How are you feeling about it?
(02:10):
It's thrilling. Are you thrilled? I'm thrilled. I'm feeling really good.
I also just feel really lucky to be on this
show with you. Like one, I'm, you know, sematically incapable
of chill, like I'm a very overeager person. But also
it's very special for me to get to work with you,
in particular because I read your book Come As You
(02:32):
Are when I was in college. I went to the
University of North Carolina UNC Chapel Hill, and your book
was something I found on a suggested reading list, I
think in a women's studies course, and I just fell
in love with the message of your book, and I
kept Come As You Are on my mantelpiece in my
like off campus college house as a symbol for everyone
(02:54):
that came over to my house that like, I own
my body and I'm having sex for me and I'm
pursuing my own pleasure, and it was a big part
of like my young slut era. And I really appreciate
that a gift you gave me. That's amazing. I love that.
I feel like it could not possibly be random chance,
like we were destined to work on this project together. Yeah,
(03:18):
your book really did change my perspective on so many things,
and so when I heard that you were working on
this show, I was like, please pick me, pick me.
It was raising my hand really hard. I love that.
Another reason I'm so excited for this podcast to exist
because like I grew up in a small town in
North Carolina, and I had abstinence only sex said, and
(03:40):
I was a like unknowing at the time, little gay kid,
and I basically was horrified and scared by the sexual
education that I got or the lack of sexual education
that I got. But the little that I did get
was basically like STDs can kill you, and if you
have sex once, you're ruined forever and no one will
(04:01):
want you after that, And that really it affected me.
And I think having real and non judgment information, like
the message that you have income as you are and
in all your work, like having that out there actually
makes a huge difference in people's everyday sex lives. Well yeay,
(04:23):
And I see my work as being the opposite of
absinence only education. Not because I'm like everybody should have
sex all the time. I think people should have sex
when and how they choose too when is right for themselves,
but because I believe that sex need not be scary
in our lives. I think that if we can embrace
(04:44):
pleasure into our lives, That's really the whole basis of
my work. It's the whole basis of the show. The
Prelude episode with Adrian Marie Brown, if you haven't heard
it yet, please go back and listen to it. Yes,
that's really the foundation of everything we're going to be
talking about. Heart agree. I put a lot of special
love into the Prelude, But this episode is our first
(05:07):
episode where we're going to be serring a listener question.
So we got a message on the come as you
are hotline six four six, three nine seven eight five
five seven. I chose it because it really speaks to
the time we're in right now, like the pandemic has
changed a lot of our relationships with ourselves and of
(05:29):
course with sex and with masturbation, but also just pleasure
on the day to day, like just everyday pleasures and happiness.
I think you're absolutely right. Rates of mental health struggles
have vastly increased. People's sense of overwhelm and exhaustion and
acxistential dread have increased vastly just over the last couple
(05:50):
of years. And is that going to interfere with our
sex lives? You bet your bippy right exactly. Yes. I
wanted to pull a question from a caller whose sexual
desire or horniness has basically changed drastically during the pandemic.
All right, so here we go. Hi. My name is Sarah,
(06:13):
my pronouns are she her. I'm thirty four and single,
and I used to have a lot of fun with myself.
I had and I still have all these fancy toys.
But over the last few years, it's like my desire
to masturbate has just completely faded away. Like the other day,
I realized I haven't masturbated in like six months, and
(06:34):
I just don't feel like my old self washing porn
does not cross my mind. I bought this new toy
to even help me get back in the mood, and
I've only used it once, I don't even want to
get out there and date because I'm just not motivated
by sex. It sounds like work to me, and I
don't know what's wrong, Like by the time I get
(06:55):
home from work, walk my dog, make dinner, I just
want to sit down and watch TV. And I feel
really tired all the time. And so I wonder if
you can help me figure out what's wrong with me.
This answer might shock you, but no, I can't explain
what's wrong with you because there is nothing wrong with you.
(07:21):
Everything that we're hearing in this question is just Sarah's
brain responding normally to an abnormal world. What science do
we need to understand to answer this question for Sarah? Okay,
this is thrilling for me. It's like I'm introducing you
(07:41):
to my most famous friend. Welcome to the dual control model,
how our brains process sex related information. Dual control model
means there's two parts. In the first part is that
sexual accelerator that gets turned on. It notices all the
sexy information in the environment. That's everything you feel with
(08:05):
your basic senses, what you see here, smell, touch, taste,
but also the things that you think, believe, or imagine
and also the sensations inside your body, the sexual excitation system.
The accelerator notices all of that, and it sends that
turn on signal the many of us are familiar with.
(08:25):
But also at the same time, in parallel, you have
breaks that are noticing all the good reasons not to
be turned on right now, everything with your basic senses,
the everything you see here, smell, touch, taste, and everything
you think, believe or imagine, and all the sensations in
your body, it notices everything that's a potential threat, and
(08:50):
it sends the turn off signal. So arousal is not
just the process of turning on the OS. It's also,
and more importantly, the process of turning off the offs.
When people are struggling, the usual advice of how to
deal with any difficulty around arousal pleasure, desire, orgasm, The
(09:13):
usual advice you hear is like, let's add stimulation to
the accelerator, watching porn, doing roleplay, handcoffs, all that stuff.
And sometimes that can work and can be great. But
a lot of the time when people are struggling, it's
not because there's too little stimulation to the accelerator. It's
because there is too much stimulation to the breaks. Our
(09:35):
listener says, it's been a couple of years. What's been
happening the last couple of years, right, I don't know,
a global pandemic where your breath could potentially carry a
lethal virus that might hit the break as like a
good reason not to be turned on right now as
a potential threat. She says, the dating feels just like
(09:57):
a lot of work, no kidding. The first time I
heard this, MLA, this truly blew my mind. May do
and what I especially love. So this is one of
my favorite things about the dual control model is that
there can be some stimuli that both hit the accelerator
and hit the brake, especially someone like you who grew
(10:20):
up being told that sex is like dirty and dangerous.
Sex related stimuli will activate the accelerator because it's sex related,
but also you were taught it's dirty and dangerous, and
so it's also going to hit the break. And what's
effect is that going to have on your sexual arousal
sexual interest? WHOA if you try to drive a car
(10:40):
with your foot on the accelerator and on the brake
at the same time, how does that go? Wow? Wow
wow wow? Okay, listeners can't see me. But I just
took my cowboy hat off, so I can process what
you just said. A lot of feelings about that that
I didn't know. We're there, Like, of course something can
hit my accelerator, but if I was told my whole
(11:02):
life that it shouldn't hit my accelerator, then it can
also that same thing can also be hitting my brake. Oh,
this is something I should process later with my therapist.
I was gonna say that sounds like something you should
talk to your therapist about, but I want to make
(11:23):
sure that you know that your breaks and accelerator can
be trained. So in the same way that your breaks
learned to respond to sex related stimuli, they can learn
not to respond just by practicing having a little bit
of exposure and relaxing, feeling calm and safe, and allowing
(11:45):
the shame that you absorbed from culture to let go.
Like your sex life will only get better because of
this revelation. So that's one of the really powerful things.
Way beyond just like turn ons and turn offs? Is
this just a like in just like one is Ambivalence
is totally normal because of the way your brain has
been trained to respond to stimuli. And the other thing
(12:08):
is that the same stimulus in one context might activate
the accelerator, but in a different context it'll hit the brakes.
Like if you are like private and the door is
locked and you know you're not going to be interrupted,
and you're feeling really aroused and turned on and trusting
of your partner. If you have a partner, it can
(12:29):
feel really fun to be tickled. But if you're in
the grocery store having a fight with your partner and
they try to tickle you, that sensation is not going
to activate the accelerator. And that is normal. I cannot
tell you how many people have asked me if there's
something about their body that's broken, because a sensation that
(12:50):
really turns them on in one context either doesn't turn
them on or is actively annoying in a different context. Right,
breaks an accelerator, girls, what you need to know? Okay,
I think it's really important to clarify that, Like, you're
not talking about the break an accelerator as a metaphor, right,
(13:12):
This is not a metaphor. This is the literal way
our brain's process information. Yes, because it's a real thing
that is really happening in your real, actual brain. You
are an animal with a body. You have a head,
there's a skull, and inside that skull there's a brain.
And inside that brain is a cluster of neuroconnections that
(13:33):
respond to sexuality, some of them to activate arousal and
some of them to stop arousal. I literally remember the day.
It was nineteen ninety nine. I was sitting in the
counseling office at Indiana University in John Bancroft was explaining
the dual control model. He drew a picture of the
(13:53):
brain and the spine as he was explaining, and I
was like, Oh, there's a break that this was a
physical mechanism that literally existed in the central nervous system,
the excitatory and inhibitory impulses. This is not a metaphor.
This is the literal way our brain's process information. Right.
(14:17):
One of the reasons I chose this question is because
she is just talking about her experience with masturbation, and
I never really thought about masturbation having these same levers
of turn ons and turn offs before. I've only thought
about that in the context of like partnered sex. But
you're saying it's the same system whether it's masturbation or
(14:38):
partnered sex. Right, Yeah, it's the same brain. What about
this question makes you think that the dual control model
is the answer the breaks and the accelerator is the
answer to Sarah's question. You know, there are two phrases.
First of all, there's I don't feel like my old self,
which indicates that there was a change. And often when
(15:00):
there's a change, people think it's something about themselves that
has changed, when actually what has changed is the text
in which her brain is interpreting all this information. So
she's not broken. Something happened in the world that made
her brain adapt and adjust, and that's totally normal when
(15:21):
you understand that, yes, there's an accelerator, and also, yes,
there's a break that's responding to a global crisis. Oh,
it's not me, it's the world. This is my brain
responding normally to some very nutso stuff that's happening in
the world. And the other sentence was it just feels
(15:44):
like a lot of work. It sounds like a lot
of work to me. Yeah, right, that's there being a
lot of pressure on the brakes. Oh interest, especially for
a person who has a history of really enjoying masturbating
their accelerator. We know responds really well because they have
this history of being aroused and enjoying sexuality, and now
(16:07):
a bunch of stuff that's hit the brain, and it
feels like a lot of work. What's changed is nothing
about this person, but just the world that their brain
is processing. More stuff is there that hits the brakes.
So like if, for example, she made a list of
today all the things she knows activate the accelerator and
all the things that she knows are hitting the brakes,
(16:28):
and then she thought back to you know, twenty nineteen,
for example, or twenty sixteen even better, and made a
list of things that activated or accelerator then and things
that hit the brakes then, and compared, you'd be able
to see, Oh, it's not that I change, it's just
the context changed, right. I actually have worksheets for this
(16:56):
in the company you are workbooking, and you're getting download
them for free from my website, where you think through
multiple and it actually really helps to think through multiple
experiences because if you get up to three, you're gonna
start noticing patterns in what activates your accelerator and what
hits your breaks. Yeah, I'll put the link to that
worksheet in the show notes, and I'm going to text
(17:16):
my girlfriend right now and be like, let's fill out
these sexy worksheets tonight. I think we should take a break.
What do you think perfect? And then when we get
back we can talk about how to apply this science
in the real world. And I think we can answer
Sarah's question. Okay, I want to recap the question. So
(17:48):
we got to call in at the commas. You are
hotline six four six three nine seven eight five five seven,
and it's from a listener who uses the pseudonym Sarah.
She's thirty four in single and she used to love
I actually found a few synonyms for masturbation online. That's
what the internet is for. It is, in fact, for that.
(18:11):
So let me just try out of few, and you
tell me which ones you like better. Okay, Oh my god.
She used to love poaching the egg. This is my
personal favorite. She used to love debugging her hard drive.
What that's hilarious. Sorry, She used to love softening the peach.
(18:33):
She used to love burping the worm. Oh my god. Okay,
what that makes sense of a person who jaculates? It's
burping a baby. Oh Emily, that got so much worse.
Oh my god, I'm sorry you hadn't. No, of course
you hadn't thought of that. No, um giving herself a
(18:56):
hand typical. That's good. Okay, you got the picture of
how Sarah used to be. I do. Okay, great, um,
But recently something has changed, so hang on, let me
play the clip. Over the last few years, it's like
my desire to masturbate has just completely faded away. Like
(19:17):
the other day, I realized I haven't masturbated in like
six months, and I just don't feel like my old
self washing porn does not cross my mind. I bought
this new toy to even help me get back in
the mood, and I've only used it once. I don't
even want to get out there and date because I'm
just not motivated by sex. Before we even get into
(19:38):
answering this question, I want to start with an even
more basic question to you, which is is this is
there something wrong with like losing interest in masturbating. Let's
say you know you don't masturbate. Somebody doesn't masturbate for
five years and they just don't want to, like, does
that mean that something has broken in their brain? Oh
heck no. It is absolutely normal for interest in sex
(20:01):
to come and go if you will. There is a
natural ebb and flow to our interest in sex that's
influent by the larger context. So, for example, at the
beginning of a relationship, the hot and heavy, fallen in love,
that creates a context that makes it really easy to
think about sex kind of all the time. Compare that
(20:23):
to being in the middle of a I don't know,
global disaster, and that creates a context that really puts
sex on the back burner. Science has shown us all
along that nothing bad happens to you if you don't
experience sex per se. So if we are still maintaining
(20:44):
adequate love and connection, then sex can go away, and
it is no kind of emergency. It's just an indication
that other things have piled up in our priority list
that have to be cleared away to free up the
break so that our accelerator can do what it's there
to do. What I also noticed in this question is
(21:07):
that she says she doesn't even think about it. Sex
drops off the priority list. We're thinking about all this
other things, dealing with family and dealing with work and
life and all that stuff, and sex goes away. It's
that we've deprioritized pleasure in the midst of all of
our stress and strife and struggle. And we've also given
(21:30):
the nature of the pandemic, we've lost access to the
resources we used to spend on self care. And we
know from the statistics that women and fems have had
this hit them especially hard. They're the ones who have
had to leave their employment. They've been at home maybe
with kids. And when you are stuck in parenting mode
(21:52):
and caretaking mode, that is a million miles away from sexy,
aroused pleasure in my body mode. Right, So we know
that it has taken a toll on people's well being,
cutting them off not just from social support, but also
from the mental wherewithal to transition into a space of
(22:16):
appreciating and loving the sensations of their bodies. Yeah, that's
so true. Like we talk about the toll it took
on our social well being and how actually we realized
all these social connections are really important to our mental health,
but there hasn't been that big conversation about how the
pandemic that we're living in has changed our sexual well being.
And fair enough, like the social connection is a literal drive.
(22:39):
We die without it. It is more important, But sex
is one of the key ways that humans give and
receive love and care. Could you talk about some of
the common things that hits people's breaks, Like what is
an example of something that hits the breaks that's a
habit or a pattern in our lives. The daily habits
(23:01):
mostly are a matter of getting just absorbed in the
management of life. So like the amount of time we
have to spend working or dealing with our families, or
taking care of our basic fundamental needs, feeding ourselves, cleaning ourselves,
managing schedules and time with other people, and writing checks
(23:25):
to pay bills. Like life is complicated and we are busy,
and it is so easy for pleasure and sexuality to
just feel like they're off, way in the distance. In
the same way that these daily habits interfere with our
access to pleasure, it takes a daily habit of prioritizing pleasure.
(23:47):
If half an hours too much, make it three minutes
where you just notice something pleasurable. If it's mindfully eating food,
that's a pleasure. If it is standing in the shower
and feeling your skin like as you wash your body,
really noticing the sensation of soapy water dripping down your skin,
like notice the pleasure, and remember that you are actually
(24:11):
alive in your body, not just moving from task to task. Right,
So it doesn't necessarily have to be like a sexual
thing that is hitting the brakes or hitting the accelerator.
It could be it could be something like a great shower,
not necessarily sexual hitting the accelerating. The most important things
about understanding the breaks is that most of the things
(24:32):
that hit the brakes have nothing to do with sex.
Even though I feel like it probably is the case
that when people are raised with sex negative education, a
lot of those breaks that they're learning are related to sex.
Most of it is just like the rest of our lives, interfering.
Do you have any other practical advice for Sarah? It
(24:53):
seems like she wants to masturbate again and wants to
really enjoy that connection, like wants to want it again.
That seems like her question. She's like, I want to
want it again? Why don't I? What's the problem? Do
you have any sex specific advice? I'm not actually sure
because she feels like there's something wrong with her that
it's gone. So I believe that step one is grand
(25:16):
your self permission not to be interested for a while,
Deliberately choose to feel normal, healthy and happy and not
interested in sex for a while. No one is ever
under any obligation to be interested in sex ever, So
try that first and then begin to explore other pleasures.
(25:40):
Create space, the space that you've been using to worry
about sex. Use that instead for space to experience all
the many different ways that we experience pleasure in our
daily lives, from the satisfaction of like lying down in
bed with clean, fresh sheets. Showers are always a big one.
(26:01):
Food is always an opportunity for a pleasure, walking outside
and feeling the breeze and the sun and watching leaves
change if you live in a place where leaves change.
And then see if interest in sex begins to bubble
back up, and if it doesn't know worries, and if
it does, gently pursue it. I love the suggestions that
(26:22):
you have for like activating the accelerator again are they
don't involve spending any money. They're just experiences that you
have in your body of like taking a shower, eating
something really delicious, Like they don't It's not about buying
the two hundred dollars dildo, right, Those are the shower
(26:43):
and the food or things you were going to do
any exactly. Yes, Yes, I love that. And I think
a lot of times we're told and she even says
she bought a new toy and thought that was going
to do it, and no, it didn't work. Right, it's
just another piece of hardware to ignore. Yeah, a lot
of times we're told like, oh, are you losing interest
in sex? Buy stuff by this thing, buy that thing,
(27:05):
and that that'll rejuvenate your sex life. But I think
that really gets to the point you were saying earlier,
that like, it's not necessarily about juicing the accelerator more
and more and more I'm buying more stuff. It's about
like finding a way to turn off the brakes so
that you really are noticing you. Even more than that,
I think people do feel this sort of obligation to
(27:29):
be interested in sex. We're told that if you're not
interested in sex, there's some sort of problem with you
and your body. You need to always be trying to
want sex, to try sexy new things, and we can't
just allow our brains and bodies to just shift away
from sexuality for a while. And here's the irony. If
(27:50):
you believe you are supposed to be interested in sex,
all the time and you are not interested in sex.
Does that activate your accelerator? No? Right, It just that
feeling of like I'm supposed to want sex, but I
don't want sex. It just hits your brakes some more So,
if you believe you need to juice the accelerate, that
belief is probably just making it more difficult for you
(28:13):
to want or like any sexual experience than might present
itself to you. Oh my god, I love that you're
saying this. So you're saying like Sarah's sitting on the
couch watching TV. At the end of the day, she's
feeling guilty about the fact that she has masturbated in
six months, and that is not helping her have a
great experience of wanting to masturbate next week. It's it's
doing the opposite instead of getting the full pleasure that
(28:35):
she could be getting from watching she Hulk. Yes, I
was gonna say great British Bakoff, but she Hulk. Same, same,
same difference. We're going to take a quick break and
when we get back, Emily, I want you to like
sum up the basics of the dual control model a TLGR.
(28:56):
If you will, I hope you enjoy the company of
my most famous friend. I did enjoy the company of
your most famous friend, and I have a feeling we're
going to be seeing her again and again and again
on this series. Yes, indeed, we'll be right back. We're back,
(29:20):
and it's time for a classic Emmally Nagowski tlgr let
us recap. So sexual response is actually a dual process
of turning on the os and also crucially turning off
the offs. And when we're struggling, the solution is more
often about turning off the offs than it is about
(29:42):
turning on the odds. And that's especially true when we
are still living through a pandemic. There are so many
things hitting our breaks these days, so I want to
make sure we offer some practical tips for how to
turn off the offs. I have five practical tips for
you ready. First, consider what activates your accelerator and what
(30:07):
hits your brakes. This can be as simple as writing
those pairs of lists off the top of your head.
Like you already know, the smell of your partner's skin
when they come in from having done yard work is
something that activates the accelerat. You know that reading romance
novels in the bathtub activates the accelerator. You know that stress,
body image stuff, parenting stuff, especially a bad day in
(30:28):
the news, hits the brakes. It might help instead to
think about two or three different experiences you've had sexually
that were great or just okay, and compare what happened
in those experiences that it activated the accelerator and what
hit the brakes. That's step one. Step two is to
(30:49):
assess your current context. Once you have a sense of
what impacts your sexual response, compare that to what's happening
in your life right now. If you're struggling to find
a new romance author to spend some time within the tub,
or if you can't be close to your partner because
they're traveling a lot from work. Is there news consistently
(31:09):
that turns your experience of the world into like navigating
a hellscape. Those are things that are influencing the way
your brain is processing sex related information and potential threats.
So assess your context is number two. Third. Categorize these
aspects of your context as things you can control and
(31:32):
things you can't control. You can ask folks for book
recommendations so you can have some control over I can't
find a new author to read. You can set limits
on how often or how deeply you consume the news.
You have permission not to consume the news. You have
some control there too. To have control over your context.
(31:52):
Maybe you can't control your partner's work, travel, And remember
I recommend that you focus especially on the stuff that's
hitting the brakes, since those are more likely to have
an impact, but some of them you may have no
control over. You have no control over the actual what
the news is, but you do have some control over
your degree of exposure to it. Fourth, choose a small
(32:16):
number of the things that you can control and make
a plan to create change. To help you select what
to focus on, it can help to rank the controllable
variables of your context by how easy or difficult they
would be to change, and by how much of an
impact they would have. Right, so the easy to change
big impact factors those are the low hanging fruit. Easy
(32:39):
to change low impact factors may make a small difference,
but they're still worth doing right not just for these
small change they make, but also they increase your experience
of self efficacy. Like see I can make a change
if I decide to do it, which can help you
feel more confident when you go on to tackle those
more difficult to change but higher impact factors. And then, finally,
(33:01):
above all, especially in a situation like this, listeners, remember
the goal is simply to spend pleasurable time with your body.
It doesn't have to be about adventure or novelty or wildness.
It's not furry handcuffs and porn. It certainly doesn't have
to be about orchasm. God knows. It's just time to
(33:22):
practice engaging pleasurably with your own body, mind, and spirit,
so that as your context shifts more toward an accelerator
activating less breaks hitting life, you have plenty of experience
connecting you erotically with yourself so that you're ready when
(33:42):
the moment comes. So to speak, no pun intended. A
moment comes. The amount of cumpuns we're gonna have on
the show is about to be simply irresponsible. Make sure
that you subscribe to Come as you are so that
(34:04):
you are notified about next week's episode when it comes
out on Wednesday. And we're going to be answering another
real listener question. This time it's about a very crooked penis.
And if you're like me and you're thinking penis as
you yawn, I'm over them. This episode is about much
more than just the penis. Emily teaches me a mind
(34:25):
blowing anatomy one oh one lesson about genital structures, and
I come away a changed woman. I see by clitterists
like an entirely different organ Now, so you know it,
hit subscribe. How was that? Was that? Good? Amazing? God?
This is so fun and it's your job. Do I
(34:47):
get better than that? No, it doesn't get better than that.
Welcome to My World, Come as You Are is a
production of Pushkin Industries and Madison Wells. It's hosted by
Emily Nagosky. You can find Emily on Instagram at e
Nigowski and on Twitter at Malin Nagowski. You can also
(35:11):
sign up for her newsletter at emil Nagosky dot com,
where she writes about everything from the clitterest in your
mind to orgasm after having hysterected me. It's an incredible newsletter.
Highly recommended. This show is co hosted and lead produced
by me Mola Board. You can find me online at
Mola Board and on TikTok at podcast dot slut Sorry mom.
(35:35):
My co producer on this show is the Fabulous Britney Brown.
Our editor is Kate Parkinson Morgan Sound design and mixed
by Anne Pope. Executive producers are Mia LaBelle and leetal
Malade at Pushkin Thanks to Heather Faine, Carly Migliori, Sophie Crane,
Courtney Guarino, Jason Gambrel, Julia Barton, John Schnars, and Jacob Weisberg.
(35:59):
At Madison Wells thanks to Kylie Williams, Elizabeth Goodstein and
Gg Pritzker. Additional thanks to Rich Stevens, Lindsay Edgecombe Frolic Media,
and Peter Acker at Armadillo Audio Group. Original music for
this series was composed by Amelianagowski and arranged and recorded
(36:20):
by Alexandra Kalinovsky. Additional music from Epidemic Sound. You can
find Pushkin on all social platforms at pushkin Pods, and
you can sign up for our newsletter at pushkin dot Fm.
If you love this show and others from Pushkin Industries,
consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast
(36:42):
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Are and other Pushkin shows. Add free very nice, and
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Comme as you Are show page in Apple Podcasts or
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