November 13, 2025 • 39 mins
In October, the Heavyweight team gathered in New York City for a live event at Caveat on the Lower East Side. There was a reading, a Q&A, and a Meet & Greet. And because we are a podcast, we recorded it all.
Get ad-free episodes of Heavyweight by subscribing to Pushkin+ on Apple Podcasts or Pushkin.fm. You'll also get an exclusive bonus episode where Jonathan, Stevie, and Kalila remember how the beloved Jackie calls came to be and share a never-before-aired opening that could have started the show in an alternate Heavyweight universe. Thanks for your support—and be sure to check out the other offerings available to Pushkin+ subscribers, including ad-free episodes, full audiobooks, and exclusive binges of other podcasts throughout the year.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. In October, the Heavyweight Gang gathered in New York
City for a live event at Caveat on the Lower
East Side. If I may be so bold as to
speak on behalf of the crowd, the Weight staff, and
(00:36):
Pushkin Industries as a whole. A lovely time was had
by all. There was a wall to write down your
regrets and a meet and greet where you could take
a picture with yours.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Truly, thank you. I feel like I'm smiling.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
At all these pictures.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Not quite a smile.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It feels like you're my soul animal, So good luck
to your soul Heavyweight.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
The first episode came out when I was twelve, for
twenty two next week.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Now, I feel like I practically raised you. If you
weren't able to attend, fear not.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
We've recorded the event so that you can still expel
experience it at home, half undressed and drinking less expensive
beverages through the miracle of audio.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Hi, everybody, thank you so much for coming to this
live event celebrating the launch of the new season of Heavyweights.
We're so glad you're here. My name is Greta Cohen.
I'm the CEO of Puchkin Industries. We are the audio
network that is the home to Heavyweight, and we are
so thrilled that they are part of our network. The
new season's wonderful. I'm sure you've all been listening to it,
(01:37):
and today you're in for a real treat. Later on,
the producers of the show, Stevie Lane and Khalila Holt,
will be coming on stage and they're going to answer,
along with Jonathan, some of your questions that you've submitted.
But first Jonathan will be joining us to do a
live reading. He has asked me to read an introduction
to this reading. Okay, Jonathan asked me to read this
(02:01):
introduction to his reading of the Old Testament of canaan
able for those of you Heathens who have never cracked
open a Bible or unscrolled to Torah. Cain and Abel
were the sons of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve
lived in a beautiful garden called Eden, where they frolicked
in the nude all day. But relax, Back then, nudity
(02:21):
was less a rio de janio hbo after dark thing
and more a Nordic healthspot thing filled with good.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Clean living and fruit platters.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Also, everyone in Eden got to live forever and not
have to go through painful childbirth or.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Work for a living.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
It was a pretty groovy trip until the whole Tree
of Knowledge thing went down and Adam and Eve were expelled.
Jonathan has here chosen to retell the story of Adam
and Eve's kids, Cana and Abel, who were born after
the expulsion, as an illustration of the very first Heavyweight,
A Heavyweight in which two beefing brothers are reconciled by
the Lord. On Heavyweight, the role of the Lord is
(02:59):
played by Jonathan Goldstein. Ladies and Gentlemen Jonathan Goldstein.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Back in those first days, things changed very quickly. A
new person being born meant there was a giant spike
in the population. For Cain, his younger brother Abel's birth
made the planet feel lopsided. He watched Eve bounce able
in her lap and felt the Earth's gravity tilt in
their direction. It pulled at the insides of his stomach
(03:51):
and made him seasick. Years later, Adam and Eve would
have many more children, but just then there was only
Cain and Abel. Because there was nobody else, the brothers
grew close. They played each other's stomachs like snare drums,
cracked each other's knuckles as though they were cracking their
They were different though. Abel was a thinker. He thought
(04:13):
about things. If he bit off his own pinky toe,
would it grow back. Cain, on the other hand, was
a doer. He'd reel back his fist and break a
donkey's nose for the sheer thrill of it all. One day,
when Adam and Eve thought the children were old enough,
they sat them down and told them about the screw up.
(04:34):
What does it mean to die, asked Cain. We're not
exactly sure, said Eve, but basically, one day, and this
is not any day soon, we will no longer be.
There was silence. Then Abel spoke up. If we won't be,
he said, then we won't even know that we're not being.
There will be no we to see that we can
(04:55):
no longer be. Yes, I guess that's true, said their mother.
Well put, Abel smiled and went back to mashing a
mutton liver into patay. Cain, on the other hand, felt
like a sharp Plumpit had been forcefully lodged down his throat.
All his life, he had felt like himself, that his
face and fingers, that his thoughts were his own. Now
(05:19):
he felt like they were someone else's, someone who could
yank them away at any chosen moment. Until then, it
had never crossed his mind that such a thing could
even be possible. The brothers continued to live their lives,
but all the while Kine felt a new sadness. It
ate with him, worked with him, and in the morning
it raised from his bed with him dying. It just
(05:40):
didn't make any sense. He knew this deep in his heart.
He thought nothing was more important than making God change
his mind. He began to take his sacrifices more seriously.
They became elaborate and garish. They involved richly choreographed interpretive dances,
colorful oblong facial masks, and the very best of his legomes.
(06:02):
But God never answered. Cain started to change. When he
got a splinter, he cursed the heavy, all out of proportion.
Back in the garden of Eden, there were no splinters.
He even started to resent his parents. He spoke of
them as though they had gambled away his inheritance. If
it hadn't been for dumb dumb number one, tempting dumb
(06:23):
dumb number two, we'd be living in luxury. Kane tried
to get Abel all worked up about the whole thing too.
But Abel had an easy come, easy go, we all
have to die someday attitude that drove his brother nuts.
Cain invented a game he called it get the hell
out of Eden. He always insisted on playing. God, get
(06:46):
your naked asses out of here, yelled God, What but
we just got here? Yelled at him and Eve. Maybe
there's some kind of mistake. The Lord does not make mistakes.
God would then kick his brother, who would fall to
the ground.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Please please have mercy on me.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
His brother would cry, Let's play something else, but God
would only laugh. Abel also made sacrifices to God. Every week,
he would choose the fattest sheep as an offering. Everything
Abel did in life was for a reason. He ate
so that he would not be hungry. He made clothes
so that he would not be cooled. But making sacrifices
(07:25):
to God, he did it for reasons he could never know.
He did it simply because.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
He was told to. There was something about that that
made him feel clean and deep.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Adam and Eve made their sacrifices, had a fear of
being further punished, and Cain was pleading for answers and changes,
but able fulfilled his obligation and walked away, expecting nothing
from God. He was glad with the way things were,
and God could not have helped.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Liking that. Meanwhile, Cain decided to test out a.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
New approach with the Lord. He believed that God would
have greater respect for him if he did not kowtow
He's going to kill us, he thought. He wanted God
to understand that he couldn't walk all over people and
then still have them come crawling back with their arms
loaded with gifts. Woh, they had to get tough. So
Cain's sacrifices grew lackadaisical. He didn't even bother to check
(08:15):
of his gifts were being received. That would look like
he was caving. Then one day, while Cain was lying
in a field, Abel came running over. God spoke to me,
cried Abel. Cain sat up and looked at his brother.
What did he say? He said, he was a great
fan of my lamb chops. He told me to keep
up the good work. Was my name mentioned, asked Cain.
(08:39):
It didn't come up.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
What was it like to hear his voice? Ask Cain.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Look at me, said Abel, I'm still shaking. There was
a certain pang that Cain started to feel. It was
in his stomach. He felt the pang grow sharpest when
he looked upon his brother. He could hardly speak with
him without having to hunch over in pain. Since the
world was still new and no one had yet felt
this way, Cain did not know that it was jealousy
(09:04):
he was feeling. Instead, he decided that his stomach no
longer wanted to be his stomach. It wanted to escape
his rib cage. It wanted to be Able's stomach. This
was because he wanted to be able. There was no
shame in this. Being able meant being happy. Being Cain
meant being wretched. He had a plan. He approached Able
(09:26):
with it. He decided to just spring it on him.
I am no longer Cain, he said, I am now able.
We are both able, all right, said Abel. The two
Ables performed routines for the amusement of their brothers and sisters.
How's that, Apple, Able? It's fine Able. But then one
(09:47):
day Kine asked, if I am able, am I just
as much able as you yourself are able? I suppose
that's true, said Abel. Then before God, are we both
not able?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Asked Cain. Well in the case of being before God.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I think at that time I would be able and
you would go back to being Cain. Cain's eyes lingered
on his breath. He looked at this other able as
standing in the way of who he was. He was able.
He knew this in his heart. He simply wanted it more.
Abel was among his flock when Cain neared him. Slowly,
(10:23):
Kane pulled out his rock, and slowly he lifted it
into the air. This way God will have to show himself.
This way, God will have to stop playing possum and
get directly involved. These were Cain's thoughts. Still, though there
was no sign of God. He looked at the back
of Abel's head. Then he looked into the sky, just
(10:44):
in case God was reading his mind. He thought to himself,
I'm really really going to do it. He brought his
rock down onto his brother's head. He could hear no
sound at all. Abel just toppled over. He toppled over
the way he did everything with an easy going acceptance.
He sank to the earth, as though thinking I must fall,
so I will fall.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I am falling. I have fallen.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
Here.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
It was death. Cain couldn't believe it. He'd been sure
that at the last moment, God would step in. He'd
have thought only God could take a person's life, But
it was as simple as killing a sheep. Abel his
eyes wide and unblinking, stared directly into the mystery of
life and death, and he was not saying a word
about any of it. The sheep continued to graze, and
(11:30):
the sun continued to shine. There were no bolts of lightning,
no booming voice from behind the clouds. Life went on.
That night, God appeared before Cain in a dream. Where
is your brother? Asked God. It's always about my brother,
said Cain. You ever ask where I am? No that
you don't think of.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
What have you done?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Asked God? Am I my brother's keeper, asked Cain. God
did not answer, He just gave him a look. It
made Cain feel naked and small. He then felt the
finger of God upon his forehead. It sank through his
head and into his brain, where it spoke. The earth
shall scorn you, said the voice from the finger. I
(12:14):
shall scorn you. You will wander the earth and death
will not come. There will be no escape. All will
look upon you, and none will dare kill you, for
they will know you by your mark. God withdrew his finger,
leaving behind a fingerprint on Cain's forehead. It was shaped
like a teardrop. At first, he tried to convince himself
(12:34):
that the mark was to protect him, that he had
a secret pact with God, that they understood each other.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
For a while, he would wake.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Up in the morning and pretend to be immortal and famous,
but he was not very good at pretending. As the
centuries passed, Cain abandoned farming and roam the earth. He
walked with a sense of purpose, just in case anyone
was watching, but in his heart he knew he had
nowhere to go. He became so lonely and full of
regret that instead of fearing death, he became yearnful of it.
(13:03):
He would chase after bears, and they would scamper away.
They haven't the guts, He'd say, run cowards, He'd call
after the tigers, look at me, He'd cry into the
face of an alligator as he tried in vain to
pry open its jaws. More centuries passed, and Cain's desire
for death became nearly constant. He would think about able
(13:24):
up in heaven, paling around with God flying through the
clouds on God's shoulders, while he was left to putts
around for hundreds of years, begging his own children to
drive sharpened branches through his heart. In life, Cain had
been jealous of his brother, but it was in death
that he became more jealous than he ever thought possible.
Over time, Cain could no longer remember very much at all.
(13:47):
Twenty years after the death of his brother, it seemed
like it was only yesterday, But after two hundred years
it felt like something that might have happened in a dream.
There were details he remembered that now seemed improbable, like
the way he saw his brother's soul leave his body,
and the way he'd waved goodbye to him and winked.
After three hundred and four hundred years at all felt
(14:09):
so long ago that who he was back then felt
like someone else. When people he met asked him questions
about the old days, he just made stuff up.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
We had wings, he said.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
After five hundred years, his story was repeated so often
that he only remembered the repeating, not the events themselves.
It sounded like a fable, something that might have just
as easily happened to a fox and a rabbit. As
to himself and his brother, he began to doubt everything.
He even began to wonder whether he had actually ever
heard God's voice, whether the mark on his forehead was
(14:42):
the mark of God and not just another liver spot.
Was this a part of the punishment? He wondered to
be left so uncertain of whether God really was or
whether God was only something inside his own head. After
seven hundred years, when he told the story to himself
or heard it told by others, he felt nothing. He
was too old to feel guilt or remorse or anything.
(15:06):
He didn't even miss his brother anymore. He wanted nothing
from God. He wanted nothing from the world. The world
was what it was. He didn't need it to change.
And in this way he finally got his wish to
be just like Abel. And then God let him die.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
After the break a Q and A with Stevie, Khalila
and Me, But first our producer Phoebe headed to the
Wall of Regrets to see what regrets were trending.
Speaker 6 (15:40):
Can I ask you about you regret?
Speaker 3 (15:42):
I just really regret not going to see the catacombs
when I was in Paris. I really like skulls. I
wish i'd called me.
Speaker 7 (15:51):
I regret that I didn't pay enough in contact with
certain friends of mine who are like religious and are
now getting married. So I'm not getting invited to the weddings,
and god do I want to be at the weddings
just because I really like wedding.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
Do you guys mind just reading these aloud for me,
like some of the ones that you're looking at.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, No, find a therapist, staying night for reason, not being.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
More patient with my mother's cognitive decline, lacking patience with
my brother's behavior than he died. How I said goodbye
to my best friend before he died.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I wish I joined the band.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
So now we are going to move into the Q
and A portion of our event today, and I'd like
to welcome to the stage, Khalila Holt and Stevie Lane,
the producers of the show.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Hi, Hello, Hi everybody, Hello, Hi bye all.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
So we asked you questions that you wanted to hear
the Heavyweight team answer about the show, and we got
so many. I think we are also going to have
a little bit of time today to do some audience
Q and A. Kicking things off with our Q and A. Here,
what does Jonathan and Jackie's off show relationship really.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
Look like.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Should I take this one?
Speaker 3 (17:34):
It's about you?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
So yeah, but you might have a more objective window.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I think it's a pretty accurate glimpse into our dynamic.
We've been friends since childhood. She likes to laugh at
me and hang up and I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I mean, I mean the first time I met Jackie,
I remember, we really bonded because over like she was like,
isn't he annoying? And I was like, yeah, I feel
like that made her like me.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
The first time I met Jackie, I was like, I
want to be you and I grow up. She's very powerful.
It's a very powerful person.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, and she's a really nice person too. I mean,
I don't I just bring out the worst in her.
It's not her fault. I don't think she's like, yeah,
she's a doctor, she helps people, she does good works. Uh,
and I just bother her, you know. So I hope
it's bringing some levity to her life. But truly, I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
But she was For the people who don't know, the
backstory is well, just that you went to school together
and she was like a popular girl.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
She was very popular.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, if you really want to go deep on the backstory,
I did a I did a story about a relationship
on This American Life called The Allure of the Mean Friend,
and I just talked to people about what Jackie Cohen
meant in grade school and in junior high, and she
meant a lot.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Yeah, what was the hardest episode to record?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
And why slash? Which call has you the most nervous
to dial? I was the most nervous calling sorority girls
for Rose, they were very I remember there was like
a Facebook thread where they were like a sketchy sounding
woman left us a message and I was like, I
thought I sounded really nice and normal.
Speaker 8 (19:29):
I think for me, it was very early and when
I just joined the show and you guys were working
on a story at the time, and you were trying
to find this two or three fingered man who had
hung up on you many times, and I was just
like new and bright eyed, and I was like, what
can I do to help? And John then was like,
you could try calling this guy. And I called him
(19:51):
and he told me he would find out where I lived.
Speaker 6 (19:54):
And killed me.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, it was like a rite of passage, Like everybody
who's new on the show had to call. His name
is Carl, But yeah, that would have been a good
story too.
Speaker 6 (20:07):
Yeah, the one where he finds me and murders me.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
He threatened to kill me. All it's just that's Karl, and.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
You've got a true crime serious, you know, Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
My hardest call was there was an episode where I
was trying to find out about my psychiatrist that I
had when I was a teenager and find out if
she was a really good psychiatrist or you just don't
know with a psychiatrist because it's so it's so sealed off,
you know, you don't get or do you get great
yelp ratings? Maybe now you do, back then you didn't.
(20:37):
And I remembered someone that used to be in the
waiting room when I would leave. He was a professor
I once had when I was in college, and I
thought maybe I can ask him, and so I had
to call him and say, hey, I used to see
you in the waiting room of my psychiatrist thirty odd
years ago. That was very weird. That was even for me,
that felt very weird. He was he had retired, he
(20:58):
was living in Jamaica. That was a weird one who.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Is a dream celebrity whose problem you'd want to solve.
Speaker 8 (21:06):
Oh so, Sarah Jessica Parker is a fan of the show,
and all that I want is to reunite her with
Kim Katrol And I email her agent every year when
we're looking for stories, and I'm like just checking in,
(21:29):
like wondering if Sarah has anybody.
Speaker 6 (21:34):
She maybe like needs to reconcile with. I should given
it any thought. So far, she's been too busy. But
now that in just like that is over, I feel
like she might have more time.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Perfect time, anybody else.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I don't know. Celebrities don't have problems, do they.
Speaker 9 (21:54):
Aggie has one?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Oh Augie, do you yeah?
Speaker 6 (21:57):
Who did you just say?
Speaker 5 (21:58):
Oh yeah, Kenya Klamar and Drake.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Aggie is my son and he's a very big rap fan.
He wants to see me reconcile the.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Whole huge numbers for us.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
That's a idea, perfect for audio.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
So a good idea.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Actually, I know, like why can't you Fellas just because
that whole super Bowl thing was really out of hand.
I mean, that was that was rough.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
We maybe have an opening for a new assistant producer,
Aki lock In.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah, he's going to be nine.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Part time. He can balance it with school.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Okay, Sometimes it seems like there's no progress or revelation
to someone's journey until weeks or months later. How does
the team maintain the morale to not be discouraged and years.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
I mean, I think I am discouraged most of the time.
I think I don't maintain the morale, would be my answer.
Speaker 8 (22:57):
Yeah, I sort of feel like I think I have
the attitude that just like I just believe it actually
will always work out, because I think we've there have
been a lot of stories that we've thought were dead
and then like years later or something changes, we get
back in touch, whatever, and then they end up happening.
Speaker 6 (23:14):
So I just I think, I just it's blind optimism.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
I was gonna say, I think Stevie brings up something
for all of us.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, and you have your work cut out. Yeah, it's
I For me, it's desperation. It's always that. That's what
passes for hope, I think is the desperation.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
If you could expand any episode into a season long series,
which one would you revisit and what avenues would you
take to further explore within that story?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Well, do you remember when we did that like two
day Descent into Madness where we laid out that whole whiteboard.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Oh yeah, yeah, well that yeah again desperation. I mean
it came about the shorthand that we were using. We
were gonna s town it.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yeah, we were like, this is gonna be our town,
this is gonna be our sun.
Speaker 8 (24:00):
Just became a verb that it was like, we're gonna
sk town this season.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah. It just felt like none of our stories were
working out. But we thought that like you're too young
to get the reference to the love boat, but like
where you're visiting different characters, thank you, you know, like
we couldn't solve the story, but like maybe from week
to week we can drift from character to character and
like keep working on them and like tangle them all
up together.
Speaker 6 (24:24):
And then nobody would notice that none of them happened.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
But truly, we spent like I think two whole days
laying out like what the structure would look like, and
then at the end of the two days, we were
like this is insane, and we just erased the wayboard.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I think it might have been more than two days. Really,
it felt like a sizable chunk of time. Yeah, I
don't know. There's like my friends, I don't know where
they are. The air Licks are here, Gregor.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
And is, Yeah, you're right to gasp and.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
His brother Dimitri And I mean, I feel like we
could do a season of just like called the air Licks,
where there would be so many good stories, you know.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
Yeah, when people are increasingly concerned about privacy, how do
you get people to speak to you and spill their
hearts out on tape?
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Well, I have noticed a lot more people do the
I thought it was a scam, so I didn't answer you.
And I don't know if people actually think we're running
some elaborate, confusing scam or if that's kind of just
like a shorthand for like I didn't want to respond
to this.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, because what kind of scam would it be? Really?
Not a very good one, like a real long con Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah. And also people don't answer the phone anyway. People
will answern on no number. I feel like that's changed
even just in the time we've been doing the show,
Like people used to pick up a lot more.
Speaker 8 (25:47):
Yeah, how do we convince them to talk once they
once they do pick up the phone.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
My feeling is like people are either inclined to do
it or not, and it doesn't matter that much what
you say, like they kind of have already made up
their mind.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
But that's true. Yeah, have you ever actually convinced anybody
like where they.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Didn't not like a hard no to a yes. I've
had people who are on the fence like then they
think about it, agree, but.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
You the most was maybe.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
I don't know if you guys remember the Sky the
story about Sky who had her best friends they wrote
the F word on her garage door. I'm saying the
F word because my son's here and it would excite
him too much. And one of the girls who were
a part of it, she didn't want to talk, and
(26:34):
we spoke a lot. We had many conversations over several days,
and eventually she agreed to do it. And she agreed
to do it for a really nice reason, like she
wanted to show her daughter that it's okay, like you
could comp to something that you did that you're not
proud of, you know, And that was really sweet.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
I also there was also Chris in the Barbara episode.
Speaker 8 (26:55):
Yeah right, that was real that We did a two
parter about Jonathan's mother in law's childhood friend and in
trying to find her, we ended up on the phone
with someone she'd been briefly engaged to when she was younger,
and at first like he didn't want to talk to
the I mean, he was like threatening legal action.
Speaker 6 (27:16):
He was like, my daughter's a lawyer, like I'm gonna
come after you.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I don't want them any.
Speaker 8 (27:19):
Party like it was, and it was very I was
producing Jonathan on the call, and it was like I
found it very scary, having flashbacks to the three fingered
man kind of and you just kind of kept him
talking like that was the You just kind of kept
him talking. And I remember we got off the phone.
I was like, what made you do that? And you
(27:39):
were like, I just have the feeling that he actually
wants to talk about this.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, and yeah.
Speaker 6 (27:45):
He called back and was like, yeah, I do want.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
To talk about this. So it was like, I don't know,
it was like just I felt like it was kind
of like the phone call that he'd been waiting for
for for like thirty odd years or more.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
It just I don't know, it just had that kind
of feeling to it.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
So I'm I've been very excited to ask you guys
this question.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Who would play you?
Speaker 4 (28:04):
And have do you eat the movie?
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I do have an answers which is just my stock answer,
who would play me in a movie? Which is Aubrey Palaza.
Speaker 6 (28:16):
Oh that's so good.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I mean I think you know, in my mind, I'm
like a very lanky, tall, sort of like Johnny Knoxville type,
but I know that it would end up being like
Walla Sean. Who you know? Maybe it Paul Giametti. I
don't know you.
Speaker 8 (28:37):
Uh, I really don't know how.
Speaker 6 (28:41):
You might have to come back on this one.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Okay, we'll come back to you on that.
Speaker 6 (28:46):
Hey everyone, it's me Stevie.
Speaker 8 (28:49):
So this question continued to haunt me for weeks until
I finally decided till this Winton.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
There's more Q and A coming up right after the break.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Our live event also featured a telephone, but unlike all
those boring ordinary telephones that only let you reach businesses, institutions,
and private residences, this telephone only allowed you to reach me,
Jonathan Goldstein, and not even me really, but my answering machine.
When you picked up the receiver, you heard a message
(29:27):
prompting you to record your own heavyweight story. And you
sure showed me, because record those stories you did.
Speaker 10 (29:35):
Hi, you've reached Jonathan Goldstein. I'm not at home right
now because I'm in the middle of the live performance
of a lifetime. But in the meantime, leave a message
with your story. Don't overthink it. Just do the job.
Do the job, Do the job. Don't say no, say yes.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I was ghosted by every single male member of my
high school class, and I don't know if I did
something I thought all these people like me, I certainly
like them.
Speaker 11 (30:03):
Found out that my dad was married beforehand. That was
an arranged marriage. So I'm an Indian and it's very
unique or very rare to get divorced during an arranged marriage.
Definitely cause risks between my dad and the community.
Speaker 5 (30:19):
I would say that I'm not a very imaginative person.
I enjoy logic. And I went to bed one night
and I had a dream that my grandmother had died.
Randomly told my friends at breakfast, and they were like
just trying to do the forty and thing of like
what could that mean, and me sort of just blowing
them off, being like dreams don't mean anything. And then
about four hours later, I received a call from my
sister saying, hey, like sorry to tell you, but grandma died.
Speaker 6 (30:42):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
My name is Dmitri Rlik.
Speaker 12 (30:44):
My story is once I was invited out to a
bachelor party and we went out in Lawera Manhattan to
Chinatown to a Chinese massage parlor and we had wonderful
foot massages, and you, Jonathan, were doing an incredible job
of pretending that it was painful because it felt great
in every way. So my question is, have you ever
(31:04):
considered doing any theatrical acting, either in film or television
or on stages, because you're obviously quite a gifted Espian.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Thank you.
Speaker 12 (31:13):
Oh i'm mc gregor's brother, by.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
The way, And now back to the Q and A.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Q and A stands for questions and answers.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
If Jonathan and Gregor could only listen to one movie
song on repeat during a road trip, which one would
it be?
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Well, Gregor, should we turn the house lights up? What
would be the song?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Gregor?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Please?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Could would you stand up so people can?
Speaker 1 (31:40):
I don't know where we're going on.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
You have to figure out why we're on a road
trip together.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I don't know. Let's say we were gonna go to
Frontier Town together. I don't know, like something fun.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
I can imagine fighting with you about the radio on
a road trip. How about that for an answer, like
fighting over which Mobie song we would listen to? Exactly
all the movie's greatest hits movies play Moby movie mob
but you do you do listen to mobi songs?
Speaker 11 (32:05):
Now? Imten repeat?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
All I listened to is movie.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Actually I have a question for you, because you gid
said you're going to take Q and A from the audience. Well,
was that all spontaneous stuff that you guys were really
just wing it? Or did you already have your prefab
like no, messed off the cuff like jazz?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, nice singers, Thank you? Is it was that your question?
Or yeah? I was curious, more like Ivy Stanley Tucci.
You know, Okay, all right, thank you, Yeah, that's very nice.
Thank you. I'd like the sounds you're making of support.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 13 (32:41):
Well.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Gregor is correct. We are shifting into audience Q and
A portion, So there are a couple of mics around.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Hi.
Speaker 14 (32:51):
I think I'm the biggest fan. Now, So Jonathan, you
recently had that episode about stopping drinking, and then, because
I'm your biggest fan of Heavyweight, you had that live
event episode where they alluded to how you needed a
drink before you spoke, how it would help you. So
I was just wondering tonight. Yeah, yeah, what's going on
(33:11):
and how it is.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
I'm I'm lit, I'm I'm tanked. No, I uh yeah,
this might be the first time I'm doing this.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
Guy.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yeah, it makes me a little nervous, but yeah, I
haven't had anything to drink. And I Emma, by the way,
I are you guys friends? Oh, you're just sitting beside
each other. Emma mixes our episodes. She's the sound engineer
and composes music.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Emma munder.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yeah, it's uh yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
It was definitely in my thoughts because I used to, like,
I used to really like to do that.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I have a drinker two or three before talking and
a couple afterwards. So yeah, I'm just I'm free balling it.
I don't know.
Speaker 14 (33:58):
Yeah, yeah, And it was definitely a nuanced view of
stopping drinking, like is it better?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Some days. I was saying last night to my friend Alex, Uh,
I was saying, I miss that feeling of like that
everything is all right, Everything's going to be okay, you
know what I mean, which is like a little like,
but you got to figure it, like, you have to
manifest that. You have to figure out how to get
that feeling on your own. You know, it's not real.
(34:31):
So yeah, I'm still working.
Speaker 6 (34:32):
On that and it is going to be all right.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Well, thank you, thank you for saying that.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Hi.
Speaker 9 (34:37):
Everyone, I'm just going to reflect based off of that
episode as well. I just recently lost your friend alcoholism
and sorry. Your episode was really touching because it was
a way to externalize and even open up those conversations.
And I sent it to our friends group and it
helped us a lot too. So thank you for being
honest and open.
Speaker 5 (34:56):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Thank you for saying that. That's really that's encouraging to hear.
Thank you.
Speaker 9 (35:01):
Yeah. My question is, I'm sure there's stories that are
just in the vault, still being worked on year after
a year. Can you share a little bit of what's
currently still being in development or if there's a story
that you really wish can have see the light of
data at some point.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
It's a good question. I don't know anything come to mind.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
I'm like scared to talk about any of them because
I'm afraid I'm going to like doom them to never happen.
But there are ones that I really.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
You're hopeful of that.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
That I would like love. Yeah, I've came back to life.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah yeah. Sometimes you have like all the elements and
you're it's very exciting, and then this one person doesn't
want to talk and yeah, you know, so it's it's
weird model to be basing things on that.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
That's how I felt about why I'm like hedging a
little bit, is that's how I felt about The Messenger,
which is when we just did this season, like when
we got laid off from Spotify, I did not forward
the emails to myself because I was like, this story
is dead, so I don't need these. And then it
came back to life.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
So we never thought we'd get to talk to If
you listen to the episode, Pat Crochy who we needed
to talk to, and it just seemed like he wasn't
going to do it.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
And then and Quinces, you had told us to no, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
And then it was like a friend of a friend
over dinner, and you know it was this true serendipity.
We got really lucky.
Speaker 15 (36:17):
Yeah, when you all are listening to recordings of yourselves
doing interviews or having conversations with people. Have you learned
that you have certain conversational habits that you've tried to
alter or emphasize.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
That's a good question. I noticed that I laugh when
I'm nervous in the middle of things that are not funny,
and that's like something I've tried to stop, especially when
I'm interviewing someone on like a serious topic. You know,
sometimes you like ask you a question and then you
kind of laugh when you're uncomfortable, and then when I'm
cutting it, I'm like, what am I doing? Yeah, so
I've tried to stop doing that.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I'll just say I have the exact opposite problem. I
can't laugh like I I wish I did laugh more easily,
and I wish I had a free and easy laugh
that told people like it's funny, that's great, keep coming,
you know. So I wish I had a little.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
Bit of that.
Speaker 6 (37:05):
I will.
Speaker 8 (37:07):
Pitch my voice up, especially i'm calling people to interview them,
and I hate it.
Speaker 6 (37:12):
I hate it so much. And when I listen back,
it's like, Hi, I'm Stevie, I'm calling from the podcast.
Speaker 8 (37:18):
Heavyweight, and like it's like it's very and then like
the tape doesn't even sound like me, Like the difference
between the that I'm really trying to work on not doing.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
But I do think it's encouraging in something I learned
from you, Jonathan is whenever I do something really stupid
and embarrassing and tape, rather than cutting it out and
trying to hide it, I'm like, well, that's going to
be a front and center in the story.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
You're embarrassing yourself for work, for a higher purpose.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
That's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Most people go through their lives, you know, just embarrassing
themselves willy nilly for nothing.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
I don't know, but for me, it's for art.
Speaker 13 (37:56):
My question is, I've noticed a lot of the episodes
feature like interpersonal friendship relationships, focusing on like really deep
platonic relationships over years. So how and Gregor and then
when you went to pilates with your friend or like
things like that, And I just love that. And what's
your like advice for friendship longevity?
Speaker 1 (38:23):
You guys haven't lived long enough to answer that question.
Speaker 6 (38:25):
Yeah, I don't have any friends, so.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
I think it helps to be amused. And like I
was saying, I'm not an easy laugh but I do.
Gregor really makes me laugh when he's busting my chops.
If you get a kick out of that, then then
you're unstoppable. I mean, what's gonna you know, what's going
to destroy you?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Nothing?
Speaker 3 (38:45):
I say, I don't know that I have an answer.
I mean, I'm very I do have some long friendships,
including my friend I went to Polaateius with, But I'm like,
I don't know why. I don't know why they're still
my friends, but I'm grateful for it.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
You're a good person, is why.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Oh thanks, Jeng.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Sure I didn't mean to, you know, bring the place down, and.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
I haven't had contemporary side.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
Well, grab a drink, say hello and thank you again
for coming.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
And thank you for coming virtually, and thanks to everyone
who made the show possible. That includes Phoebe Flanagan, Kira Posey,
Tara Machado, Amy Hagadorn, Jordan McMillan, Eric Sandler, Sarah Bruguer,
and especially Morgan Ratner. Live sound mixing from the staff
of Caveat and mixing for this broadcast version by Emma Monger.
(39:42):
We'll be back next week with a brand new episode,
an unlive episode the regular Old Kind
Pushkin. In October, the Heavyweight Gang gathered in New York
City for a live event at Caveat on the Lower
East Side. If I may be so bold as to
speak on behalf of the crowd, the Weight staff, and
(00:36):
Pushkin Industries as a whole. A lovely time was had
by all. There was a wall to write down your
regrets and a meet and greet where you could take
a picture with yours.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Truly, thank you. I feel like I'm smiling.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
At all these pictures.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Not quite a smile.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It feels like you're my soul animal, So good luck
to your soul Heavyweight.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
The first episode came out when I was twelve, for
twenty two next week.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Now, I feel like I practically raised you. If you
weren't able to attend, fear not.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
We've recorded the event so that you can still expel
experience it at home, half undressed and drinking less expensive
beverages through the miracle of audio.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Hi, everybody, thank you so much for coming to this
live event celebrating the launch of the new season of Heavyweights.
We're so glad you're here. My name is Greta Cohen.
I'm the CEO of Puchkin Industries. We are the audio
network that is the home to Heavyweight, and we are
so thrilled that they are part of our network. The
new season's wonderful. I'm sure you've all been listening to it,
(01:37):
and today you're in for a real treat. Later on,
the producers of the show, Stevie Lane and Khalila Holt,
will be coming on stage and they're going to answer,
along with Jonathan, some of your questions that you've submitted.
But first Jonathan will be joining us to do a
live reading. He has asked me to read an introduction
to this reading. Okay, Jonathan asked me to read this
(02:01):
introduction to his reading of the Old Testament of canaan
able for those of you Heathens who have never cracked
open a Bible or unscrolled to Torah. Cain and Abel
were the sons of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve
lived in a beautiful garden called Eden, where they frolicked
in the nude all day. But relax, Back then, nudity
(02:21):
was less a rio de janio hbo after dark thing
and more a Nordic healthspot thing filled with good.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Clean living and fruit platters.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Also, everyone in Eden got to live forever and not
have to go through painful childbirth or.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Work for a living.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
It was a pretty groovy trip until the whole Tree
of Knowledge thing went down and Adam and Eve were expelled.
Jonathan has here chosen to retell the story of Adam
and Eve's kids, Cana and Abel, who were born after
the expulsion, as an illustration of the very first Heavyweight,
A Heavyweight in which two beefing brothers are reconciled by
the Lord. On Heavyweight, the role of the Lord is
(02:59):
played by Jonathan Goldstein. Ladies and Gentlemen Jonathan Goldstein.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Back in those first days, things changed very quickly. A
new person being born meant there was a giant spike
in the population. For Cain, his younger brother Abel's birth
made the planet feel lopsided. He watched Eve bounce able
in her lap and felt the Earth's gravity tilt in
their direction. It pulled at the insides of his stomach
(03:51):
and made him seasick. Years later, Adam and Eve would
have many more children, but just then there was only
Cain and Abel. Because there was nobody else, the brothers
grew close. They played each other's stomachs like snare drums,
cracked each other's knuckles as though they were cracking their
They were different though. Abel was a thinker. He thought
(04:13):
about things. If he bit off his own pinky toe,
would it grow back. Cain, on the other hand, was
a doer. He'd reel back his fist and break a
donkey's nose for the sheer thrill of it all. One day,
when Adam and Eve thought the children were old enough,
they sat them down and told them about the screw up.
(04:34):
What does it mean to die, asked Cain. We're not
exactly sure, said Eve, but basically, one day, and this
is not any day soon, we will no longer be.
There was silence. Then Abel spoke up. If we won't be,
he said, then we won't even know that we're not being.
There will be no we to see that we can
(04:55):
no longer be. Yes, I guess that's true, said their mother.
Well put, Abel smiled and went back to mashing a
mutton liver into patay. Cain, on the other hand, felt
like a sharp Plumpit had been forcefully lodged down his throat.
All his life, he had felt like himself, that his
face and fingers, that his thoughts were his own. Now
(05:19):
he felt like they were someone else's, someone who could
yank them away at any chosen moment. Until then, it
had never crossed his mind that such a thing could
even be possible. The brothers continued to live their lives,
but all the while Kine felt a new sadness. It
ate with him, worked with him, and in the morning
it raised from his bed with him dying. It just
(05:40):
didn't make any sense. He knew this deep in his heart.
He thought nothing was more important than making God change
his mind. He began to take his sacrifices more seriously.
They became elaborate and garish. They involved richly choreographed interpretive dances,
colorful oblong facial masks, and the very best of his legomes.
(06:02):
But God never answered. Cain started to change. When he
got a splinter, he cursed the heavy, all out of proportion.
Back in the garden of Eden, there were no splinters.
He even started to resent his parents. He spoke of
them as though they had gambled away his inheritance. If
it hadn't been for dumb dumb number one, tempting dumb
(06:23):
dumb number two, we'd be living in luxury. Kane tried
to get Abel all worked up about the whole thing too.
But Abel had an easy come, easy go, we all
have to die someday attitude that drove his brother nuts.
Cain invented a game he called it get the hell
out of Eden. He always insisted on playing. God, get
(06:46):
your naked asses out of here, yelled God, What but
we just got here? Yelled at him and Eve. Maybe
there's some kind of mistake. The Lord does not make mistakes.
God would then kick his brother, who would fall to
the ground.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Please please have mercy on me.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
His brother would cry, Let's play something else, but God
would only laugh. Abel also made sacrifices to God. Every week,
he would choose the fattest sheep as an offering. Everything
Abel did in life was for a reason. He ate
so that he would not be hungry. He made clothes
so that he would not be cooled. But making sacrifices
(07:25):
to God, he did it for reasons he could never know.
He did it simply because.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
He was told to. There was something about that that
made him feel clean and deep.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Adam and Eve made their sacrifices, had a fear of
being further punished, and Cain was pleading for answers and changes,
but able fulfilled his obligation and walked away, expecting nothing
from God. He was glad with the way things were,
and God could not have helped.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Liking that. Meanwhile, Cain decided to test out a.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
New approach with the Lord. He believed that God would
have greater respect for him if he did not kowtow
He's going to kill us, he thought. He wanted God
to understand that he couldn't walk all over people and
then still have them come crawling back with their arms
loaded with gifts. Woh, they had to get tough. So
Cain's sacrifices grew lackadaisical. He didn't even bother to check
(08:15):
of his gifts were being received. That would look like
he was caving. Then one day, while Cain was lying
in a field, Abel came running over. God spoke to me,
cried Abel. Cain sat up and looked at his brother.
What did he say? He said, he was a great
fan of my lamb chops. He told me to keep
up the good work. Was my name mentioned, asked Cain.
(08:39):
It didn't come up.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
What was it like to hear his voice? Ask Cain.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Look at me, said Abel, I'm still shaking. There was
a certain pang that Cain started to feel. It was
in his stomach. He felt the pang grow sharpest when
he looked upon his brother. He could hardly speak with
him without having to hunch over in pain. Since the
world was still new and no one had yet felt
this way, Cain did not know that it was jealousy
(09:04):
he was feeling. Instead, he decided that his stomach no
longer wanted to be his stomach. It wanted to escape
his rib cage. It wanted to be Able's stomach. This
was because he wanted to be able. There was no
shame in this. Being able meant being happy. Being Cain
meant being wretched. He had a plan. He approached Able
(09:26):
with it. He decided to just spring it on him.
I am no longer Cain, he said, I am now able.
We are both able, all right, said Abel. The two
Ables performed routines for the amusement of their brothers and sisters.
How's that, Apple, Able? It's fine Able. But then one
(09:47):
day Kine asked, if I am able, am I just
as much able as you yourself are able? I suppose
that's true, said Abel. Then before God, are we both
not able?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Asked Cain. Well in the case of being before God.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I think at that time I would be able and
you would go back to being Cain. Cain's eyes lingered
on his breath. He looked at this other able as
standing in the way of who he was. He was able.
He knew this in his heart. He simply wanted it more.
Abel was among his flock when Cain neared him. Slowly,
(10:23):
Kane pulled out his rock, and slowly he lifted it
into the air. This way God will have to show himself.
This way, God will have to stop playing possum and
get directly involved. These were Cain's thoughts. Still, though there
was no sign of God. He looked at the back
of Abel's head. Then he looked into the sky, just
(10:44):
in case God was reading his mind. He thought to himself,
I'm really really going to do it. He brought his
rock down onto his brother's head. He could hear no
sound at all. Abel just toppled over. He toppled over
the way he did everything with an easy going acceptance.
He sank to the earth, as though thinking I must fall,
so I will fall.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I am falling. I have fallen.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
Here.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
It was death. Cain couldn't believe it. He'd been sure
that at the last moment, God would step in. He'd
have thought only God could take a person's life, But
it was as simple as killing a sheep. Abel his
eyes wide and unblinking, stared directly into the mystery of
life and death, and he was not saying a word
about any of it. The sheep continued to graze, and
(11:30):
the sun continued to shine. There were no bolts of lightning,
no booming voice from behind the clouds. Life went on.
That night, God appeared before Cain in a dream. Where
is your brother? Asked God. It's always about my brother,
said Cain. You ever ask where I am? No that
you don't think of.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
What have you done?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Asked God? Am I my brother's keeper, asked Cain. God
did not answer, He just gave him a look. It
made Cain feel naked and small. He then felt the
finger of God upon his forehead. It sank through his
head and into his brain, where it spoke. The earth
shall scorn you, said the voice from the finger. I
(12:14):
shall scorn you. You will wander the earth and death
will not come. There will be no escape. All will
look upon you, and none will dare kill you, for
they will know you by your mark. God withdrew his finger,
leaving behind a fingerprint on Cain's forehead. It was shaped
like a teardrop. At first, he tried to convince himself
(12:34):
that the mark was to protect him, that he had
a secret pact with God, that they understood each other.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
For a while, he would wake.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Up in the morning and pretend to be immortal and famous,
but he was not very good at pretending. As the
centuries passed, Cain abandoned farming and roam the earth. He
walked with a sense of purpose, just in case anyone
was watching, but in his heart he knew he had
nowhere to go. He became so lonely and full of
regret that instead of fearing death, he became yearnful of it.
(13:03):
He would chase after bears, and they would scamper away.
They haven't the guts, He'd say, run cowards, He'd call
after the tigers, look at me, He'd cry into the
face of an alligator as he tried in vain to
pry open its jaws. More centuries passed, and Cain's desire
for death became nearly constant. He would think about able
(13:24):
up in heaven, paling around with God flying through the
clouds on God's shoulders, while he was left to putts
around for hundreds of years, begging his own children to
drive sharpened branches through his heart. In life, Cain had
been jealous of his brother, but it was in death
that he became more jealous than he ever thought possible.
Over time, Cain could no longer remember very much at all.
(13:47):
Twenty years after the death of his brother, it seemed
like it was only yesterday, But after two hundred years
it felt like something that might have happened in a dream.
There were details he remembered that now seemed improbable, like
the way he saw his brother's soul leave his body,
and the way he'd waved goodbye to him and winked.
After three hundred and four hundred years at all felt
(14:09):
so long ago that who he was back then felt
like someone else. When people he met asked him questions
about the old days, he just made stuff up.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
We had wings, he said.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
After five hundred years, his story was repeated so often
that he only remembered the repeating, not the events themselves.
It sounded like a fable, something that might have just
as easily happened to a fox and a rabbit. As
to himself and his brother, he began to doubt everything.
He even began to wonder whether he had actually ever
heard God's voice, whether the mark on his forehead was
(14:42):
the mark of God and not just another liver spot.
Was this a part of the punishment? He wondered to
be left so uncertain of whether God really was or
whether God was only something inside his own head. After
seven hundred years, when he told the story to himself
or heard it told by others, he felt nothing. He
was too old to feel guilt or remorse or anything.
(15:06):
He didn't even miss his brother anymore. He wanted nothing
from God. He wanted nothing from the world. The world
was what it was. He didn't need it to change.
And in this way he finally got his wish to
be just like Abel. And then God let him die.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
After the break a Q and A with Stevie, Khalila
and Me, But first our producer Phoebe headed to the
Wall of Regrets to see what regrets were trending.
Speaker 6 (15:40):
Can I ask you about you regret?
Speaker 3 (15:42):
I just really regret not going to see the catacombs
when I was in Paris. I really like skulls. I
wish i'd called me.
Speaker 7 (15:51):
I regret that I didn't pay enough in contact with
certain friends of mine who are like religious and are
now getting married. So I'm not getting invited to the weddings,
and god do I want to be at the weddings
just because I really like wedding.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
Do you guys mind just reading these aloud for me,
like some of the ones that you're looking at.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, No, find a therapist, staying night for reason, not being.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
More patient with my mother's cognitive decline, lacking patience with
my brother's behavior than he died. How I said goodbye
to my best friend before he died.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I wish I joined the band.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
So now we are going to move into the Q
and A portion of our event today, and I'd like
to welcome to the stage, Khalila Holt and Stevie Lane,
the producers of the show.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Hi, Hello, Hi everybody, Hello, Hi bye all.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
So we asked you questions that you wanted to hear
the Heavyweight team answer about the show, and we got
so many. I think we are also going to have
a little bit of time today to do some audience
Q and A. Kicking things off with our Q and A. Here,
what does Jonathan and Jackie's off show relationship really.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
Look like.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Should I take this one?
Speaker 3 (17:34):
It's about you?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
So yeah, but you might have a more objective window.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I think it's a pretty accurate glimpse into our dynamic.
We've been friends since childhood. She likes to laugh at
me and hang up and I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I mean, I mean the first time I met Jackie,
I remember, we really bonded because over like she was like,
isn't he annoying? And I was like, yeah, I feel
like that made her like me.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
The first time I met Jackie, I was like, I
want to be you and I grow up. She's very powerful.
It's a very powerful person.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, and she's a really nice person too. I mean,
I don't I just bring out the worst in her.
It's not her fault. I don't think she's like, yeah,
she's a doctor, she helps people, she does good works. Uh,
and I just bother her, you know. So I hope
it's bringing some levity to her life. But truly, I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
But she was For the people who don't know, the
backstory is well, just that you went to school together
and she was like a popular girl.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
She was very popular.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, if you really want to go deep on the backstory,
I did a I did a story about a relationship
on This American Life called The Allure of the Mean Friend,
and I just talked to people about what Jackie Cohen
meant in grade school and in junior high, and she
meant a lot.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Yeah, what was the hardest episode to record?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
And why slash? Which call has you the most nervous
to dial? I was the most nervous calling sorority girls
for Rose, they were very I remember there was like
a Facebook thread where they were like a sketchy sounding
woman left us a message and I was like, I
thought I sounded really nice and normal.
Speaker 8 (19:29):
I think for me, it was very early and when
I just joined the show and you guys were working
on a story at the time, and you were trying
to find this two or three fingered man who had
hung up on you many times, and I was just
like new and bright eyed, and I was like, what
can I do to help? And John then was like,
you could try calling this guy. And I called him
(19:51):
and he told me he would find out where I lived.
Speaker 6 (19:54):
And killed me.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, it was like a rite of passage, Like everybody
who's new on the show had to call. His name
is Carl, But yeah, that would have been a good
story too.
Speaker 6 (20:07):
Yeah, the one where he finds me and murders me.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
He threatened to kill me. All it's just that's Karl, and.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
You've got a true crime serious, you know, Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
My hardest call was there was an episode where I
was trying to find out about my psychiatrist that I
had when I was a teenager and find out if
she was a really good psychiatrist or you just don't
know with a psychiatrist because it's so it's so sealed off,
you know, you don't get or do you get great
yelp ratings? Maybe now you do, back then you didn't.
(20:37):
And I remembered someone that used to be in the
waiting room when I would leave. He was a professor
I once had when I was in college, and I
thought maybe I can ask him, and so I had
to call him and say, hey, I used to see
you in the waiting room of my psychiatrist thirty odd
years ago. That was very weird. That was even for me,
that felt very weird. He was he had retired, he
(20:58):
was living in Jamaica. That was a weird one who.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Is a dream celebrity whose problem you'd want to solve.
Speaker 8 (21:06):
Oh so, Sarah Jessica Parker is a fan of the show,
and all that I want is to reunite her with
Kim Katrol And I email her agent every year when
we're looking for stories, and I'm like just checking in,
(21:29):
like wondering if Sarah has anybody.
Speaker 6 (21:34):
She maybe like needs to reconcile with. I should given
it any thought. So far, she's been too busy. But
now that in just like that is over, I feel
like she might have more time.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Perfect time, anybody else.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I don't know. Celebrities don't have problems, do they.
Speaker 9 (21:54):
Aggie has one?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Oh Augie, do you yeah?
Speaker 6 (21:57):
Who did you just say?
Speaker 5 (21:58):
Oh yeah, Kenya Klamar and Drake.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Aggie is my son and he's a very big rap fan.
He wants to see me reconcile the.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Whole huge numbers for us.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
That's a idea, perfect for audio.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
So a good idea.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Actually, I know, like why can't you Fellas just because
that whole super Bowl thing was really out of hand.
I mean, that was that was rough.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
We maybe have an opening for a new assistant producer,
Aki lock In.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah, he's going to be nine.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Part time. He can balance it with school.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Okay, Sometimes it seems like there's no progress or revelation
to someone's journey until weeks or months later. How does
the team maintain the morale to not be discouraged and years.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
I mean, I think I am discouraged most of the time.
I think I don't maintain the morale, would be my answer.
Speaker 8 (22:57):
Yeah, I sort of feel like I think I have
the attitude that just like I just believe it actually
will always work out, because I think we've there have
been a lot of stories that we've thought were dead
and then like years later or something changes, we get
back in touch, whatever, and then they end up happening.
Speaker 6 (23:14):
So I just I think, I just it's blind optimism.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
I was gonna say, I think Stevie brings up something
for all of us.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, and you have your work cut out. Yeah, it's
I For me, it's desperation. It's always that. That's what
passes for hope, I think is the desperation.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
If you could expand any episode into a season long series,
which one would you revisit and what avenues would you
take to further explore within that story?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Well, do you remember when we did that like two
day Descent into Madness where we laid out that whole whiteboard.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Oh yeah, yeah, well that yeah again desperation. I mean
it came about the shorthand that we were using. We
were gonna s town it.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yeah, we were like, this is gonna be our town,
this is gonna be our sun.
Speaker 8 (24:00):
Just became a verb that it was like, we're gonna
sk town this season.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah. It just felt like none of our stories were
working out. But we thought that like you're too young
to get the reference to the love boat, but like
where you're visiting different characters, thank you, you know, like
we couldn't solve the story, but like maybe from week
to week we can drift from character to character and
like keep working on them and like tangle them all
up together.
Speaker 6 (24:24):
And then nobody would notice that none of them happened.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
But truly, we spent like I think two whole days
laying out like what the structure would look like, and
then at the end of the two days, we were
like this is insane, and we just erased the wayboard.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I think it might have been more than two days. Really,
it felt like a sizable chunk of time. Yeah, I
don't know. There's like my friends, I don't know where
they are. The air Licks are here, Gregor.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
And is, Yeah, you're right to gasp and.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
His brother Dimitri And I mean, I feel like we
could do a season of just like called the air Licks,
where there would be so many good stories, you know.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
Yeah, when people are increasingly concerned about privacy, how do
you get people to speak to you and spill their
hearts out on tape?
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Well, I have noticed a lot more people do the
I thought it was a scam, so I didn't answer you.
And I don't know if people actually think we're running
some elaborate, confusing scam or if that's kind of just
like a shorthand for like I didn't want to respond
to this.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, because what kind of scam would it be? Really?
Not a very good one, like a real long con Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah. And also people don't answer the phone anyway. People
will answern on no number. I feel like that's changed
even just in the time we've been doing the show,
Like people used to pick up a lot more.
Speaker 8 (25:47):
Yeah, how do we convince them to talk once they
once they do pick up the phone.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
My feeling is like people are either inclined to do
it or not, and it doesn't matter that much what
you say, like they kind of have already made up
their mind.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
But that's true. Yeah, have you ever actually convinced anybody
like where they.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Didn't not like a hard no to a yes. I've
had people who are on the fence like then they
think about it, agree, but.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
You the most was maybe.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
I don't know if you guys remember the Sky the
story about Sky who had her best friends they wrote
the F word on her garage door. I'm saying the
F word because my son's here and it would excite
him too much. And one of the girls who were
a part of it, she didn't want to talk, and
(26:34):
we spoke a lot. We had many conversations over several days,
and eventually she agreed to do it. And she agreed
to do it for a really nice reason, like she
wanted to show her daughter that it's okay, like you
could comp to something that you did that you're not
proud of, you know, And that was really sweet.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
I also there was also Chris in the Barbara episode.
Speaker 8 (26:55):
Yeah right, that was real that We did a two
parter about Jonathan's mother in law's childhood friend and in
trying to find her, we ended up on the phone
with someone she'd been briefly engaged to when she was younger,
and at first like he didn't want to talk to
the I mean, he was like threatening legal action.
Speaker 6 (27:16):
He was like, my daughter's a lawyer, like I'm gonna
come after you.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I don't want them any.
Speaker 8 (27:19):
Party like it was, and it was very I was
producing Jonathan on the call, and it was like I
found it very scary, having flashbacks to the three fingered
man kind of and you just kind of kept him
talking like that was the You just kind of kept
him talking. And I remember we got off the phone.
I was like, what made you do that? And you
(27:39):
were like, I just have the feeling that he actually
wants to talk about this.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, and yeah.
Speaker 6 (27:45):
He called back and was like, yeah, I do want.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
To talk about this. So it was like, I don't know,
it was like just I felt like it was kind
of like the phone call that he'd been waiting for
for for like thirty odd years or more.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
It just I don't know, it just had that kind
of feeling to it.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
So I'm I've been very excited to ask you guys
this question.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Who would play you?
Speaker 4 (28:04):
And have do you eat the movie?
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I do have an answers which is just my stock answer,
who would play me in a movie? Which is Aubrey Palaza.
Speaker 6 (28:16):
Oh that's so good.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I mean I think you know, in my mind, I'm
like a very lanky, tall, sort of like Johnny Knoxville type,
but I know that it would end up being like
Walla Sean. Who you know? Maybe it Paul Giametti. I
don't know you.
Speaker 8 (28:37):
Uh, I really don't know how.
Speaker 6 (28:41):
You might have to come back on this one.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Okay, we'll come back to you on that.
Speaker 6 (28:46):
Hey everyone, it's me Stevie.
Speaker 8 (28:49):
So this question continued to haunt me for weeks until
I finally decided till this Winton.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
There's more Q and A coming up right after the break.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Our live event also featured a telephone, but unlike all
those boring ordinary telephones that only let you reach businesses, institutions,
and private residences, this telephone only allowed you to reach me,
Jonathan Goldstein, and not even me really, but my answering machine.
When you picked up the receiver, you heard a message
(29:27):
prompting you to record your own heavyweight story. And you
sure showed me, because record those stories you did.
Speaker 10 (29:35):
Hi, you've reached Jonathan Goldstein. I'm not at home right
now because I'm in the middle of the live performance
of a lifetime. But in the meantime, leave a message
with your story. Don't overthink it. Just do the job.
Do the job, Do the job. Don't say no, say yes.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I was ghosted by every single male member of my
high school class, and I don't know if I did
something I thought all these people like me, I certainly
like them.
Speaker 11 (30:03):
Found out that my dad was married beforehand. That was
an arranged marriage. So I'm an Indian and it's very
unique or very rare to get divorced during an arranged marriage.
Definitely cause risks between my dad and the community.
Speaker 5 (30:19):
I would say that I'm not a very imaginative person.
I enjoy logic. And I went to bed one night
and I had a dream that my grandmother had died.
Randomly told my friends at breakfast, and they were like
just trying to do the forty and thing of like
what could that mean, and me sort of just blowing
them off, being like dreams don't mean anything. And then
about four hours later, I received a call from my
sister saying, hey, like sorry to tell you, but grandma died.
Speaker 6 (30:42):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
My name is Dmitri Rlik.
Speaker 12 (30:44):
My story is once I was invited out to a
bachelor party and we went out in Lawera Manhattan to
Chinatown to a Chinese massage parlor and we had wonderful
foot massages, and you, Jonathan, were doing an incredible job
of pretending that it was painful because it felt great
in every way. So my question is, have you ever
(31:04):
considered doing any theatrical acting, either in film or television
or on stages, because you're obviously quite a gifted Espian.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Thank you.
Speaker 12 (31:13):
Oh i'm mc gregor's brother, by.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
The way, And now back to the Q and A.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Q and A stands for questions and answers.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
If Jonathan and Gregor could only listen to one movie
song on repeat during a road trip, which one would
it be?
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Well, Gregor, should we turn the house lights up? What
would be the song?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Gregor?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Please?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Could would you stand up so people can?
Speaker 1 (31:40):
I don't know where we're going on.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
You have to figure out why we're on a road
trip together.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I don't know. Let's say we were gonna go to
Frontier Town together. I don't know, like something fun.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
I can imagine fighting with you about the radio on
a road trip. How about that for an answer, like
fighting over which Mobie song we would listen to? Exactly
all the movie's greatest hits movies play Moby movie mob
but you do you do listen to mobi songs?
Speaker 11 (32:05):
Now? Imten repeat?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
All I listened to is movie.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Actually I have a question for you, because you gid
said you're going to take Q and A from the audience. Well,
was that all spontaneous stuff that you guys were really
just wing it? Or did you already have your prefab
like no, messed off the cuff like jazz?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, nice singers, Thank you? Is it was that your question?
Or yeah? I was curious, more like Ivy Stanley Tucci.
You know, Okay, all right, thank you, Yeah, that's very nice.
Thank you. I'd like the sounds you're making of support.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 13 (32:41):
Well.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Gregor is correct. We are shifting into audience Q and
A portion, So there are a couple of mics around.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Hi.
Speaker 14 (32:51):
I think I'm the biggest fan. Now, So Jonathan, you
recently had that episode about stopping drinking, and then, because
I'm your biggest fan of Heavyweight, you had that live
event episode where they alluded to how you needed a
drink before you spoke, how it would help you. So
I was just wondering tonight. Yeah, yeah, what's going on
(33:11):
and how it is.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
I'm I'm lit, I'm I'm tanked. No, I uh yeah,
this might be the first time I'm doing this.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
Guy.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yeah, it makes me a little nervous, but yeah, I
haven't had anything to drink. And I Emma, by the way,
I are you guys friends? Oh, you're just sitting beside
each other. Emma mixes our episodes. She's the sound engineer
and composes music.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Emma munder.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yeah, it's uh yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
It was definitely in my thoughts because I used to, like,
I used to really like to do that.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I have a drinker two or three before talking and
a couple afterwards. So yeah, I'm just I'm free balling it.
I don't know.
Speaker 14 (33:58):
Yeah, yeah, And it was definitely a nuanced view of
stopping drinking, like is it better?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Some days. I was saying last night to my friend Alex, Uh,
I was saying, I miss that feeling of like that
everything is all right, Everything's going to be okay, you
know what I mean, which is like a little like,
but you got to figure it, like, you have to
manifest that. You have to figure out how to get
that feeling on your own. You know, it's not real.
(34:31):
So yeah, I'm still working.
Speaker 6 (34:32):
On that and it is going to be all right.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Well, thank you, thank you for saying that.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Hi.
Speaker 9 (34:37):
Everyone, I'm just going to reflect based off of that
episode as well. I just recently lost your friend alcoholism
and sorry. Your episode was really touching because it was
a way to externalize and even open up those conversations.
And I sent it to our friends group and it
helped us a lot too. So thank you for being
honest and open.
Speaker 5 (34:56):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Thank you for saying that. That's really that's encouraging to hear.
Thank you.
Speaker 9 (35:01):
Yeah. My question is, I'm sure there's stories that are
just in the vault, still being worked on year after
a year. Can you share a little bit of what's
currently still being in development or if there's a story
that you really wish can have see the light of
data at some point.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
It's a good question. I don't know anything come to mind.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
I'm like scared to talk about any of them because
I'm afraid I'm going to like doom them to never happen.
But there are ones that I really.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
You're hopeful of that.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
That I would like love. Yeah, I've came back to life.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah yeah. Sometimes you have like all the elements and
you're it's very exciting, and then this one person doesn't
want to talk and yeah, you know, so it's it's
weird model to be basing things on that.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
That's how I felt about why I'm like hedging a
little bit, is that's how I felt about The Messenger,
which is when we just did this season, like when
we got laid off from Spotify, I did not forward
the emails to myself because I was like, this story
is dead, so I don't need these. And then it
came back to life.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
So we never thought we'd get to talk to If
you listen to the episode, Pat Crochy who we needed
to talk to, and it just seemed like he wasn't
going to do it.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
And then and Quinces, you had told us to no, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
And then it was like a friend of a friend
over dinner, and you know it was this true serendipity.
We got really lucky.
Speaker 15 (36:17):
Yeah, when you all are listening to recordings of yourselves
doing interviews or having conversations with people. Have you learned
that you have certain conversational habits that you've tried to
alter or emphasize.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
That's a good question. I noticed that I laugh when
I'm nervous in the middle of things that are not funny,
and that's like something I've tried to stop, especially when
I'm interviewing someone on like a serious topic. You know,
sometimes you like ask you a question and then you
kind of laugh when you're uncomfortable, and then when I'm
cutting it, I'm like, what am I doing? Yeah, so
I've tried to stop doing that.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I'll just say I have the exact opposite problem. I
can't laugh like I I wish I did laugh more easily,
and I wish I had a free and easy laugh
that told people like it's funny, that's great, keep coming,
you know. So I wish I had a little.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
Bit of that.
Speaker 6 (37:05):
I will.
Speaker 8 (37:07):
Pitch my voice up, especially i'm calling people to interview them,
and I hate it.
Speaker 6 (37:12):
I hate it so much. And when I listen back,
it's like, Hi, I'm Stevie, I'm calling from the podcast.
Speaker 8 (37:18):
Heavyweight, and like it's like it's very and then like
the tape doesn't even sound like me, Like the difference
between the that I'm really trying to work on not doing.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
But I do think it's encouraging in something I learned
from you, Jonathan is whenever I do something really stupid
and embarrassing and tape, rather than cutting it out and
trying to hide it, I'm like, well, that's going to
be a front and center in the story.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
You're embarrassing yourself for work, for a higher purpose.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
That's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Most people go through their lives, you know, just embarrassing
themselves willy nilly for nothing.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
I don't know, but for me, it's for art.
Speaker 13 (37:56):
My question is, I've noticed a lot of the episodes
feature like interpersonal friendship relationships, focusing on like really deep
platonic relationships over years. So how and Gregor and then
when you went to pilates with your friend or like
things like that, And I just love that. And what's
your like advice for friendship longevity?
Speaker 1 (38:23):
You guys haven't lived long enough to answer that question.
Speaker 6 (38:25):
Yeah, I don't have any friends, so.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
I think it helps to be amused. And like I
was saying, I'm not an easy laugh but I do.
Gregor really makes me laugh when he's busting my chops.
If you get a kick out of that, then then
you're unstoppable. I mean, what's gonna you know, what's going
to destroy you?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Nothing?
Speaker 3 (38:45):
I say, I don't know that I have an answer.
I mean, I'm very I do have some long friendships,
including my friend I went to Polaateius with, But I'm like,
I don't know why. I don't know why they're still
my friends, but I'm grateful for it.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
You're a good person, is why.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Oh thanks, Jeng.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Sure I didn't mean to, you know, bring the place down, and.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
I haven't had contemporary side.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
Well, grab a drink, say hello and thank you again
for coming.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
And thank you for coming virtually, and thanks to everyone
who made the show possible. That includes Phoebe Flanagan, Kira Posey,
Tara Machado, Amy Hagadorn, Jordan McMillan, Eric Sandler, Sarah Bruguer,
and especially Morgan Ratner. Live sound mixing from the staff
of Caveat and mixing for this broadcast version by Emma Monger.
(39:42):
We'll be back next week with a brand new episode,
an unlive episode the regular Old Kind
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