July 15, 2024 • 32 mins
Dr Laurie HATES thinking about her own death. It's scary, creepy and morbid, right? Wrong. Thinking about our finite lives can makes us better, happier people. The shadow of death makes us behave more kindly towards others, and can motivate us both to enjoy the little joys of life and seek out greater fulfilment in our careers and in our relationships.
But you need to look death square in the face - and that's not easy for a thanatophobe like Dr Laurie. To help her, she enlists psychologist Jodi Wellman (author of You Only Die Once: How to Make It to the End with No Regrets) and death doula Alua Arthur (author of Briefly Perfectly Human: Making an Authentic Life by Getting Real About the End).
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
The destination is on your right. The Somerville Public Library
in East Branch arrived.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I'm headed to my local library, but not to check
out a book. I'm on a quest, a quest that
has obsessed philosophers, poets, and mystics for ages. I'm on
a quest to confront death.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Do you know the death cafe?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I'm about to attend what's known as a death cafe.
Deaf cafes are small community get togethers in which total
strangers meet to talk candidly about their inevitable demise, usually
over tea and cake. There are ten people at this
particular death cafe, all first time attendees, just like me.
We discussed how we'd like to spend our final seconds alive,
(01:05):
what we wanted done with our bodies after we passed,
and the fears we have about dying. It was intense.
There were some laughs, but also tears.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Were you scared before you came? I was scared?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I was like, what was SCAREDY?
Speaker 4 (01:18):
I was more curious than scared, I was. I was
actually very excited. I was thinking about this last night.
I'm like, I'm humped for the death cafe. Yeah, I
think I was. I just I like doing weird experiences.
This is a weird thing I signed up for, and
it was nice. I got a lot of good ideas
on where I'd like to view when I die. I
never thought about that same. Yeah, it was nice to
get me able to talk about death in a very
(01:38):
open environment. There's cake, and there was cake.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
That was a good cake.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I left the death Cafe with the huge slights of
red velvet cake and a lot to think about. You see,
I really really hate talking about planning for, or even
contemplating my own death, so I may as well come clean.
I doctor Lorie Santo's, am a fanatophobe. What is theanatophobia?
You ask, well? Fanatophobia, which I think I'm saying right,
(02:06):
is the fear of death. I find the fact that
I'm going to die not just a downer but deeply terrifying.
The thought that I and all the people I love
won't be around someday makes me feel literally nauseous. And
this inability to confront death winds up being pretty bad
for my happiness. First off, I'm super health anxious. I'm
convinced that every bump and weird bodily sensation is some
(02:28):
terminal illness just waiting to take me out, which is
not a fun way to live. My fanatophobia causes other
problems too. I'm scared to look at my retirement savings
because inevitably this question comes up. So how long do
you think this money needs to last?
Speaker 5 (02:43):
Aka?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
When do you think you're gonna die? Ah, And surveys
show I'm not the only ones spooked by dying. On average,
people report death as their number one terror, which beats
out even public speaking. Our collective denial of death means
that most of us don't do what we need to
do to get ready for it. Only about half of
people in the US today have life insurance and only
a quarter have a living will. Now you might be thinking, well,
(03:06):
death sucks. Is it so bad that we're a little
bit sanatophobic. Unfortunately, it turns out that avoiding our mortality
may be much worse for our happiness than we realize,
because the science shows that facing up to the shortness
of life may be the best way to make sure
that your short life is one that you actually live well.
Hence my quest to stop hiding and to finally meet
(03:27):
death head on. Our minds are constantly telling us what
to do to be happy. But what if our minds
are wrong? What if our minds are lying to us,
leading us away from what will really make us happy.
The good news is that understanding the science of the
mind points us all back in the right direction. You're
listening to the Happiness Lab with doctor Laurie Santos. Hello, Well,
(03:56):
good morning, good morning.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Hello, and it's so good to meet you, Laurie. Hello.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Psychologist Jodi Wellman does not share my all consuming fear
of death? Is it the natophobia? Is that how you
say it?
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Fanataphobia? I see thanataphobia, but thanatophobia. I have really terrible thanatophobia.
I'm like, really spooked about death. It's one of the
reasons I was so excited.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
To get your book. Jody's book is called You Only
Die Once, How to make it to the end with
no regrets. You Only Die Once is a celebration of
all things thanatophilia, embracing the fact that your time is limited.
I enjoyed the book a lot, but reading it did
make me feel a little queasy.
Speaker 6 (04:32):
Am I striving to make us barf in our mouths
while we think about this? No, if I know that
it's going to cause just enough existential like poking of
the ribs.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Oh, then I get so excited.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Jody's path that thanatophilia began with a tragedy. Her mother
died at only fifty eight years old, and Jody was
stuck cleaning out her apartment.
Speaker 6 (04:52):
For me, it was like this, I don't know, a
show and tell in a way of all of her
dreams and hopes and plans and intentions that she didn't execute.
So I kind of call it like the graveyard of
hopes and dreams.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Jody found unfinished drafts of books, business plan that had
never been implemented, and long lists of cool stuff that
her mother had wanted to do but never got around
to doing. It all hit Jody like a ton of bricks.
Speaker 6 (05:17):
Oh my gosh, I don't want to get to the
end and have all of these manuscripts not sent out,
and plans and hopes that I didn't try. You know
that felt more fearful to me than anything.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Jody wasn't exactly enjoying her life at the time. She
was very much in danger of repeating her mother's pattern.
Speaker 6 (05:33):
By this point, I was officially disenchanted at work, but
I didn't really know what to do about it. So
here I am day going about my work, and I
stabled a couple pages together, and my stapler ran out,
and so I went.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
To the storeroom.
Speaker 6 (05:43):
I loaded up the stapler, and this thought occurred to
me as I was putting the.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Row of staples into the stapler.
Speaker 6 (05:49):
I said, I'd better not be here by the time
this row of staples runs out.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
So Jody had finally set a time limit for taking action.
She was sure she'd be making some big changes, you
know soon right. But then one fateful day, the stapler
ran out again and Jody was still in her job
with no plan B, and.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I felt so dropkicked.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
That's when Jody had an epiphany.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Wait a sec.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
You can't just expect stuff to happen to you, to
be miraculously like helicoptered out of your average job into
something that's going to inspire you.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
You need to do something about it.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
And do something Jody did. She quit her boring job
and entered a master's program in positive psychology. During her studies,
she became fascinated with one topic, in particular, the concept
of death awareness, the act of intentionally thinking about your mortality.
It's a practice that the ancient's called Memento maury.
Speaker 6 (06:48):
It's the Latin phrase that means remember that we must die.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Memento mori has roots in religion and philosophy, but it
was also expressed through art and fashion, and Jody has
lovingly adopted these traditions. She wears black jewelry and draws
cartoons of the grim Reaper. Jody's favorite possession is a
tarnished gold coin engraved with the text of that Latin model.
Whenever Jody stumbles across the coin in her purse, she
(07:12):
ritualistically says, I AM going to die soon.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
It's just that little subtle reminder that says, oh, yeah, right,
we're temporary.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
It may sound morbid, but the science suggests that Jody
might be onto something. Researchers have studied what happens when
people come dangerously close to the end, Folks with fatal
cancers who suddenly got better, or survivors of terrible car accidents.
Speaker 6 (07:34):
It's like they put new glasses on and it can
see things with clarity that we don't because we're just
sweating the small stuff all frickin' day long. Whereas they
have this ability to say that little email that I
haven't answered yet.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
In the Kurian scheme of things, it's lucky to be alive.
That doesn't matter. This does, And one.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Thing that really matters to people who've nearly died are
their friends and family. People who face death make time
for those that matter and get more discerning about those
that don't.
Speaker 6 (07:59):
You enliven me, I'm going to spend more time with you.
You de energize me. I'm going to opt to spend
less or no time with you. So there's that refinement
of the way your time is spent.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Brushes with mortality also cause us to help others more often,
a practice that lots of research shows is a great
way to improve your well being. It's twenty twenty one
and Russell Lowe is lying in a California hospital bed.
Russell was a physician, but this time he's the one
in need of virgic care. Russell contracted an infection, a
bad one. His medical team wasn't sure he would make him. Eventually,
(08:34):
the doctors got the infection under control, but they told
Russell just how close he'd come to checking out for good.
Russell's near death experience shook him, but rather than turning inward,
he connected with the nurses who'd been at his side
throughout the entire ordeal. He began learning about the financial
hardships they faced while training to help people just like him.
This was my opportunity to live my life differently, to
(08:56):
give back to the people who are helping me. So
Russell set up a scholarship fund at cal State San
Marcos to give students the resources they need to become nurses.
His ordeal taught him to help pay it forward. Stories
like this happen all the time, But it turns out
you don't need an actual near death experience to change
your life. Research shows you can use your imagination. In
(09:17):
one study, psychologists told people to vividly imagine a near
death scenario, like waking up in a smoke filled room
and realizing your house is on fire. Subjects were then
invited to play a game that involved keeping a stash
of money for themselves or donating it to help other players.
People who thought about scary moments before the game behaved
more generously. They also experienced more gratitude than those that
(09:39):
didn't engage in a morbid reflection. And you don't even
need to get that morbid to start seeing some benefits.
In another experiment, college seniors were reminded just how little
time they had left at university. Afterwards, they reported higher
levels of happiness all the way up to graduation. And
why was that while seniors who got the college's short
memo wind up packing more fun activities in during their
(10:01):
final months than seniors who didn't get a reminder. When
time is short, we force ourselves to finally get around
to all the stuff we care about. We recognize we
don't have forever to complete that business plan or screenplay,
which motivates our brains to get over all the usual
doubts and actually take action.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
We have nothing to lose, and life's too short to
not do the thing that we might want to do.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
All this was sounding great in theory, but I mean,
just speaking.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
For myself, death is like an absolute doubt or like
it super freaks me out, Like I hate hate thinking
about it.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
How is it literally talking about it right now?
Speaker 5 (10:35):
As together?
Speaker 1 (10:36):
It's no, Seriously, it kind of freaks me out.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Like reading your book.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
The distinct sensation I experienced was that I'm about to vomit. Yeah,
it doesn't feel awesome. I'm really really avoiding of it. Yeah, yeah, Yeah,
can I be fixed? Can I be fixed? I think
you're fixable.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
JODI's fix begins with what she calls the life calculator exercise.
The goal is to calculate just how many mondays you
have left. You start with the average US life expectancy,
just over eighty years for women and just under eighty
for men. You then subtract your current age, take that
number and multiply it by fifty two. And that's about
(11:13):
the number of mondays you've got left. So if I
did the math right, I think it is eighteen forty nine.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Does that sound right? Yeah, eighteen forty nine. Please tell
me how nauseous did you feel?
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Right? Hollar?
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Very nauseous?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Like, eighteen forty nine is a big number, but it's
a pretty fineite.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
What can I actually fit into one thousand, eight hundred
and forty nine weeks? I mean, I love movies and
try to watch at least one new one a week.
Have I really got only one thousand, eight hundred and
forty nine movies left before I die? I mean, there's
probably not even enough time to get through that first
scrolling page on Netflix. How many more times am I
going to watch favorites like Casablanca or The Big Lebowski
(11:52):
or Star Wars, and god, how many more novels do
I have time left to read? Or restaurants to try out,
or fireworks displays to watch, or vacations to go on? Ugh.
The life Calculator exercise was giving me heart palpitations, but
Jody says that's kind of the point.
Speaker 6 (12:09):
So yes, and yes, I feel really revolted by this,
and I'm going to book a vacation. The dose is
just right enough to take my breath away, but not
enough to paralyze me.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
It's just enough to say, what am I doing? What's
this all about? Am I making the best use of
my time?
Speaker 6 (12:24):
And we have to reflectively keep coming back to that
reminder because we will get swept up in the current
of life.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
I get Jody's point here. I don't want to get
swept up in the current of life. But sorry, death
still terrifies me. I just hate letting it creep into
my thoughts. What I need is someone who can help
me think of death as a bit more.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
Fun like if you're going on a trip someplace, most
of us are like excited about it. You know, a
vacation that you plan for a year or so, you
like to throw to go. You know, we could do
the same thing with our dying.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
The happiness lab will return in a moment. So lots
of people.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Maybe think about death once in a while. I try
to avoid thinking about death. How often do you think
about death?
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Every day? Multiple times a day.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
This is Ailia Arthur. Ailua is definitely not scared of death.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
Sometimes when I'm doing something ridiculous, like reaching when I'm
in the shower for a towel, that's just like a
little bit out of my grip, and I wonder what
would happen if I slipped and hit my head on
the edge of the think But often I'm thinking about
death all the time.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
We tend to think of stuff associated with death as
being creepy. Funeral homes are creepy. Cemeteries are creepy. Morticians
are creepy. Aila switched careers to change that. She used
to be a lawyer and hated it. I was confused
and lost and hopeless. I had no sense of what
I wanted out of my own life. I couldn't figure
(13:53):
out what the point was. You know, you get up,
you go.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
To work, you pay your bills, to pay your taxes,
eat food. What is the point of all of this?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Ailua finally took a medical leave and headed to Cuba.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
And along the way I met a fellow traveler named Jessica,
a young German woman who had utin cancer and was
traveling to see the top six places in the world
she wanted to see before she died. It was kind
of like her bucket list trip. I mean, there was
like a little crack in the door, and I kicked
it all the way open. I asked so many very
very deep and personal questions, and she lit up in
(14:25):
answering them. Before you know it, we're speaking deeply about
her concerns about the afterlife of theirs one at all,
about what she hadn't done in her life, about her
sadness about her disease. And she shared with me that
it was the first time that she had been able
to have a real conversation about her mortality. People would
hush her, people would say, oh, don't worry about that,
You're going to get better, which is what we do.
(14:46):
You have to have hope, but you have to have faith.
She was like, all those things might also be true,
but I am also very sick with the disease that
might kill me. It was the first time that I
had been involved in that deep of a conversation about
the trajectory of one's life. But it also allowed me
to see how disconnected I'd been from the idea of
my own mortality. When I started thinking about my death,
(15:09):
the lid kind of came off, Well, who am I?
What do I want? What do I value? If the
end of my life were at the end of this year,
would I be okay to go? Would I be fighting
it to the nail? What do I still want to do?
It started to create a context that I never had before.
I was now feeling fully aware that it would end
at some point, So, knowing that it's going to end soon,
(15:31):
how do I want to fill it? It started to
shift the dial for me toward creating a life that
I would have felt comfortable dying from. And that's a
direction toward happiness for sure.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
But the direction Ailua took might surprise you. She didn't
just lays around on Caribbean beaches all day. She decided
to spend her days with people facing their final days.
You see, Alua became a death doula.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
A death doula somebody who does all of the non
medical care and support of the dying person through the
entire process. And how we define dying person really depends,
because anybody who's come into recognition or their mortality at
some point must also reckon with the fact that they
are currently dying. But overall, we're supporting folks when they
have some awareness that death is approaching and want to
(16:16):
plan and prepare.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
For Aileo describes her journey in a new book entitled
Briefly Perfectly Human, making an authentic life by getting real
about the end. Much of the impetus for taking on
this new role came from watching her brother in law
face terminal cancer.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
I remember very distinctly trying to keep track of all
the questions that I had. You know, it was my
sister's husband, and so she'd be with him in the hospital,
and I'd be on the computer, click clock clock and
trying to get some information, trying to answer these questions,
and it was so tough. It was really tough to
navigate that process. I wanted somebody to be there. I
wanted somebody who cared, somebody who had enough resources, who
(16:53):
had answers to my questions or at least would say,
I don't know yet, but I'm going to find out
for you.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Death doula's are a lot like birth doula's, those professionals
trained to support people having a baby.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
It just had a really good conversation with a friend
of mine who was pregnant, and she was talking all
about her birth plan, and she was talking about going
to the birth thing center and what she's eating and
what she likes to experience. Thinking through the plan helped
her quell her anxiety about what it is that's going
to be happening. Much like a birth dollah, death doulahs
can support people along the way, help them get clear
(17:23):
on their values so what they want it to look like,
what kind of support that they need.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
And pregnancy isn't the only time we seek out outside support.
We're all perfectly happy to have professionals guide us through
other big life events. I mean, we have therapists who
help us through tough times, math tutors to guide us
through calculus, and personal trainers to get us into shape.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
And so to me, death dullah's are a very very
natural and easy addition to that list of people that
can support At the time when I think we probably
need them the most.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Ailua now has hundreds of clients, and while I wasn't
ready to have her plan out my own death just yet,
I did want to learn about the wisdom she'd gained
from being so very close to death so very often.
I mean, she's heard so many people reflect on their
hopes and fears and regrets about the end. How has
that changed her own views on life.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
I'm not a nihilist any means, but I wonder if
we put so much focus on making meaning in order
to contextualize life and make it make some type of
sense where there is no sense to be made. And
so rather than continuing to try to force things into
some box to make it make sense, maybe we can
just let go and experience it for what it is,
which is a really wild ride. So the meaning can
(18:29):
be made out of the little things that bring us joy,
the things that make being alive feel like a gift
in some capacity.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
As we continued chatting, I was struck by alu As
constant gratitude. She just seems so appreciative of the things
that I take for granted all the time.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
There is so much magic in the fact that we live,
you know, the fact that we are human just to
be alive, to be present for whatever our bodies capabilities are.
That in and of itself is a miracle, which makes
doing the dishes also feel like a miracle. To feel
water on my hands, to feel heat, to feel soap,
all of that grounding in my mortality means that at
(19:06):
some point I won't have access to all these senses anymore,
you know, And so how cool is it that I
can feel cold on my hands? How cool is it
that either have plates for me to eat off of?
That all makes me feel so much more connected to
this really strange experience of life.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I mean, when you say it like that, facing your
death doesn't sound so horrible things that are happening in
the present moment, but.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Right now it still feels a little terrifying.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I mean, are you still skipped by it or is
it like, like, what are the emotions that it brings
up for you?
Speaker 5 (19:35):
Curiosity? Mostly, I'm really really curious because all of the
questions around it remain a mystery. You know, I don't
know when it'll be Maybe it is just a really
fantastical ride through the universe and then there's no more
consciousness or maybe the afterlife, if there is one, is
like this really glorious place of existence. I have no idea,
(19:56):
and so I'm curious about it.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I was gonna say, so you experienced that as curiosity,
but I experience that as terror. So my usual move
when I don't know something is to like check right.
So I'm going to a restaurant and I'm thinking, oh,
I don't know if they have a good cocktail menu.
I pull out my phone and I like, check the
cocktail menu. You know. I'm going to a new doctor,
and I don't know how good he is, right Like,
I look up and try to check on these things.
(20:19):
But I think one of the scary things for me
about death is like, seems like you can't do that
with death.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
You stin't know, you can't you don't.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Know, And so talk about how you can kind of
sit and allow that uncertainty.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
Rather than imagine the worst possible scenario, I imagine one
that brings me some comfort. I imagine something that makes
me feel good about it. Because I don't know, and
we can't know, and what we tend to do is
flood the uncertainty with dread and fear and the opposite
could also be true. Like if you're going on a
trip someplace, most of us are like excited about it.
(20:52):
You know, a vacation that you planned for a year
or so, you're like thrill to go. You've never been
there before. Maybe you've read some reviews, and I mean,
I think a good review about death is that nobody
has been there, has ever been back. They stayed there,
must love it, they must love it, must be a
good time. So you're going on a trip, research maybe
like the food there, hotel, what you're going to do
while you're there. You get on a plane, you have
(21:14):
no idea what's to come when you land, Yet we
anticipate that joyfully. We could do the same thing with
our dying. Every day we don't know. I wake up
not knowing if it's going to rain, whether or not
I'll need to pee on my way to work. We
don't know. We don't know anything about this life. So
we already are really masterful at navigating the unknown. We
(21:34):
keep navigating it. Plans change and we shift. We adapt,
or we get divorced, we adapt, we get a new job,
We adapt, over and over and over again.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
This remarkable capacity to adapt is what the psychologist Dan
Gilbert has christened our psychological immune system. Just as we
have a physical immune system to protect our bodies from
physical threats, so too, do we have a psychological immune
system designed to protect our mental health from psychological threats.
When uncertain moments come up, like a divorce, or a
scary diagnosis, or a struggle at work, our psychological immune
(22:07):
system unconsciously takes over to help us adapt and thrive
through the uncertainty. Alua was reminding me that when it
finally comes time to face the scariness of my own death,
my psychological immune system will be there to help me adapt,
just like it always has.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
We know how to do it already, and so we
could attach the same perspective that we use on living
for our dying that when the time comes, I will adapt.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Chatting with Aluo was reminding me that I'm stronger than
I think even when it comes to facing death. So
when we get back from the break, I'll get even
more hardcore and my quest to embrace mortality. I'll go
on a death safari right in my own neighborhood, and
I'll attempt to stare my impermanence straight in the face.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Okay, so heading.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Over to the mirror. Yeah, uh, that's my aging forty
something body.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
The Happiness Lab will be right back. Like I don't
like anything that's finite, Like I don't like when a
meal ends, I don't like when a vacation ends. I
don't like what a really good television series ends. And
so the idea that I my end is like really
(23:18):
uncomfortable for me.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
It's difficult to think of myself as finite.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Death do la Ailua Arthur is very gently helping me
work through my fanta hiphobia.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
My drive for life is big, and that makes it
hard to also release and to let it go when
I love it so much. But I think about this
all the time because when we say we love something,
I can't love it and also not love the end
of it. My end is a part of my life.
If I'm going to love my life, I've got to
love it all.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
This idea of loving it all is something we've talked
about on this podcast before. We tend to pooh pooh experiences.
We don't enjoy feelings like sadness, anxiety, and fear, but
study after study shows we'd be better off embracing the
tough stuff in life rather than pushing it away like death.
Painful experiences are just part of what there is to love.
Speaker 5 (24:05):
They are part of the human experience whole. Humans feel
a whole host of emotions, and none of them are
bad or wrong. They're just maybe a little bit more difficult.
So at least reframing to think of it as just
a part of what it's like to be human that
supports me a lot. Like even on my tougher days,
when I'm feeling like I'm in the trenches, I often
remember that this is just part of what it means,
(24:26):
this is just how it goes.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
And I think another interesting thing about like recognizing the
temporariness of these negative emotions temporary like because you're going
to die, is it can actually make you enjoy them
more in a weird way. Right after I finished your book,
I kind of had this weird stomach thing.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
It had nothing to do with your book.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
By the way, It's a separate eating incident, but because
I had just been thinking so much about my impermanence,
I like readed what I would normally think of as
a not good sensation very differently, where I thought, Huh,
how curious that I'm experiencing something. I'm experiencing something that
feels really intense, kind of brought with it a sort
of kind of strange gratitude for something that I wouldn't
(25:04):
have had any gratitude for normally. Is this the kind
of thing you see in some of the people you
work with.
Speaker 5 (25:10):
I've been noticing that more and more.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
And also a way to hold like the difficult stuff
very very gingerly, you know, because often when people are dying,
there's a hole of things going on in the body.
Hopefully the pain is well controlled, but the body's doing
things that we're not familiar with, we can't control it
at all, and holding it very very lightly today the
optic nerve is not working or today this is what
(25:33):
I'm experiencing. Does allow folks to move through the process,
I think, with a little bit more grace for themselves
and for their dying.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
I told Ailua that I do want all the benefits
that come with accepting my mortality. The research suggests it'll
make me more compassionate, it'll encourage me to be more mindful,
and it'll push me to achieve stuff that I really
want to achieve in life. But I explained, I really
hate the idea that I'm going to die someday, and
that is when Ailua hit me with a truth bomb.
(26:02):
Death Is it some distant appointment oft in the future.
I'm actually deep in the process of dying right now.
Lewis says, I need to get used to that idea.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
Because if we can get more comfortable with the fact
that living and dying is also happening, and which will
be happening all the way up until we're actually dead,
I think it maybe eases a bit of that fear
like one day I'm going to be dying. No, You're
dying right now. So noticing the living and dying things
that are around our environment.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Aila suggested an exercise to help with this, one that
I tried out on my morning walk to my favorite
coffee shop. I took my usual path, but this time
I tried to notice all the signs of dying that
I normally ignore. I saw the gorgeous irises in my
neighbor's yard that had wilted and turned brown, that plaque
commemorating a fallen soldier from World War Two, a banana
(26:50):
appeal rotting on a compost heap. I was shocked to
realize there were lots of signs of mortality all around me.
Noticing these things helped me remember that in the grand
scheme of things, I'm not so different from that rotting
banana or dried out flower. And for the first time,
this death awareness didn't make me nauseous. This time it
felt more like awe or connectedness, reassuring sense that I'm
(27:13):
just a small part of some larger hole. So when
I guess what next.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Another exercise that I sometimes encourage people to do, which
can be tough for some, I'm just going to go
ahead and say it, is to spend a little bit
of time in the mirror, looking at yourself, looking at
your body. I have a lot of mirrors in my house,
and at first I thought I was just painfully vain,
but I think that I really enjoy seeing myself and
(27:39):
also noticing the aging that's occurring all the time. And
I'm noticing the changes and approaching them without judgment as
best as possible, but rather with some awe and some curiosity.
My grades are popping off right now, and I find
it fascinating, like, look at this body. All the changes
has already been through, and death is going to be
just another change that the body's going through, but all
(28:00):
the changes it's already been through, like start start steeping ourselves,
and the fact that these bodies are very temporary beings.
They're fragile.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Okay, heading over to the mirror.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, that's my aging forty something body, getting some SAgs
where there were not SAgs before.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Definitely seeing that my skin is not what it used
to be. The mirror exercise was much more uncomfortable than
the death walk, but ultimately I was able to experience
a sense of awe how the passage of time was
changing my appearance.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah, fascination, curiosity. I guess my grays are popping off too.
So yeah, got through the mirror exercise without barfing. I'm
going to call that another death awareness.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
When here's the additional step that I think might be
a little resenting is to look at yourself in the
eyeballs and repeat to yourself, I'm going to die, Oh God,
a couple of times, two or three times, take deep
breasts in between. Okay, I see you smile.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
If that's not a smile, it's like a fear, like, yeah, okay,
here goes, I am going to can't if you look
at myself in the eyes when I say this mirror
exercise two point zero was way way tougher than just
staring at some gray hair. Let's try some psychological distance, Laurie,
(29:24):
you are going to die full disclosure. I found it
existentially overwhelming at first, but after a few mornings trying
it out, Okay, it helps. If I close my eyes,
I am going to die. I am going to die.
I am going to die.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
This exercise required a lot of bravery, but it also
hit exactly the kind of death awareness dose that psychologist
Jodie Wellman recommended earlier, a practice that does take your
breath away, but at the same time helps to inspire
a change.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
An astonishing life doesn't just happen to us. We have
to take action towards it. But sometimes taking that bold
step it does take courage.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
It's not exactly fun to remember that you're fine. Mortality
is a bummer, and thinking about it does feel like
a gut punch, But the science shows it's a gut
punch with a whole host of psychological benefits, ones that
I'm beginning to notice and appreciate. Reflecting on death has
helped me realize that there are lots of spots where
I'm just phoning in my life. My days are usually
(30:27):
busy and productive, but I don't always feel like I'm
really living. Thinking about my mortality has helped me remember
the people and places that light me up, and realizing
I have so few mondays left has made me start
scheduling stuff I really value. I've shifted from passive to
active mode. I bought a ring with that Latin phrase
on it, and Jody kindly sent me a ceramic skull
(30:49):
from her collection. It hasn't come easy, but I've learned
that a little bravery facing the tough stuff in life
and in death goes a long way, which reminds me
We've now come to the end of this season of
my grappling with the happiness challenges that I struggle with
the most. I wish I could say that these episodes
have turned me into some superwoman who's never stressed or
overworked or self critical. Sadly, I'm still just human, but
(31:13):
I think the strategies I've learned about over the last
few weeks have made me a better human. Maybe, Brian,
what do you think?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Am I a better human? Are you about human? I've
tried so hard during.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
These we should have planned this out. I began this
season by confiding in my friend and producer Ryan Dilley.
He's been along for this whole project, so now that
we're at the end, I thought i'd see how he
thought I did. I think you've been really brave.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
You've done a really good job. But some of these
really quite tough things. I'm kind of proud of you.
Oh you're proud of me. That's really sweet. I've earned
a ton from making they shows with you, But what
have you come away with?
Speaker 1 (31:50):
I mean, lots of things, but I guess the biggest
thing is just that I can still change, but there's
still a room for improvement.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
And it works if I give myself praise as your friend.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
That's such a lovely thing to hear im, And I'm
so proud that you're able to make that progress.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
This particular season may be over, but we're not taking
our summer break just yet. We'll have a longer justscussion
about what I learned from all the shows you've just heard,
and we've got some special Olympics themed shows too. I'll
chat with the runner who fell out of love with
the track, and we'll learn some happiness lessons from the
coaches who coached the coaches who coached Team USA.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
This is such a special occasion for me.
Speaker 6 (32:25):
I have been a big fan and it resonated so
much with me that we were sharing episodes of the
Happiness Lab with the coaches we were working with.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
That's a lot of coaches, so do come back next
time for the Happiness Lab with me. Doctor Laurie Santos
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
The destination is on your right. The Somerville Public Library
in East Branch arrived.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I'm headed to my local library, but not to check
out a book. I'm on a quest, a quest that
has obsessed philosophers, poets, and mystics for ages. I'm on
a quest to confront death.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Do you know the death cafe?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I'm about to attend what's known as a death cafe.
Deaf cafes are small community get togethers in which total
strangers meet to talk candidly about their inevitable demise, usually
over tea and cake. There are ten people at this
particular death cafe, all first time attendees, just like me.
We discussed how we'd like to spend our final seconds alive,
(01:05):
what we wanted done with our bodies after we passed,
and the fears we have about dying. It was intense.
There were some laughs, but also tears.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Were you scared before you came? I was scared?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I was like, what was SCAREDY?
Speaker 4 (01:18):
I was more curious than scared, I was. I was
actually very excited. I was thinking about this last night.
I'm like, I'm humped for the death cafe. Yeah, I
think I was. I just I like doing weird experiences.
This is a weird thing I signed up for, and
it was nice. I got a lot of good ideas
on where I'd like to view when I die. I
never thought about that same. Yeah, it was nice to
get me able to talk about death in a very
(01:38):
open environment. There's cake, and there was cake.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
That was a good cake.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I left the death Cafe with the huge slights of
red velvet cake and a lot to think about. You see,
I really really hate talking about planning for, or even
contemplating my own death, so I may as well come clean.
I doctor Lorie Santo's, am a fanatophobe. What is theanatophobia?
You ask, well? Fanatophobia, which I think I'm saying right,
(02:06):
is the fear of death. I find the fact that
I'm going to die not just a downer but deeply terrifying.
The thought that I and all the people I love
won't be around someday makes me feel literally nauseous. And
this inability to confront death winds up being pretty bad
for my happiness. First off, I'm super health anxious. I'm
convinced that every bump and weird bodily sensation is some
(02:28):
terminal illness just waiting to take me out, which is
not a fun way to live. My fanatophobia causes other
problems too. I'm scared to look at my retirement savings
because inevitably this question comes up. So how long do
you think this money needs to last?
Speaker 5 (02:43):
Aka?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
When do you think you're gonna die? Ah, And surveys
show I'm not the only ones spooked by dying. On average,
people report death as their number one terror, which beats
out even public speaking. Our collective denial of death means
that most of us don't do what we need to
do to get ready for it. Only about half of
people in the US today have life insurance and only
a quarter have a living will. Now you might be thinking, well,
(03:06):
death sucks. Is it so bad that we're a little
bit sanatophobic. Unfortunately, it turns out that avoiding our mortality
may be much worse for our happiness than we realize,
because the science shows that facing up to the shortness
of life may be the best way to make sure
that your short life is one that you actually live well.
Hence my quest to stop hiding and to finally meet
(03:27):
death head on. Our minds are constantly telling us what
to do to be happy. But what if our minds
are wrong? What if our minds are lying to us,
leading us away from what will really make us happy.
The good news is that understanding the science of the
mind points us all back in the right direction. You're
listening to the Happiness Lab with doctor Laurie Santos. Hello, Well,
(03:56):
good morning, good morning.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Hello, and it's so good to meet you, Laurie. Hello.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Psychologist Jodi Wellman does not share my all consuming fear
of death? Is it the natophobia? Is that how you
say it?
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Fanataphobia? I see thanataphobia, but thanatophobia. I have really terrible thanatophobia.
I'm like, really spooked about death. It's one of the
reasons I was so excited.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
To get your book. Jody's book is called You Only
Die Once, How to make it to the end with
no regrets. You Only Die Once is a celebration of
all things thanatophilia, embracing the fact that your time is limited.
I enjoyed the book a lot, but reading it did
make me feel a little queasy.
Speaker 6 (04:32):
Am I striving to make us barf in our mouths
while we think about this? No, if I know that
it's going to cause just enough existential like poking of
the ribs.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Oh, then I get so excited.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Jody's path that thanatophilia began with a tragedy. Her mother
died at only fifty eight years old, and Jody was
stuck cleaning out her apartment.
Speaker 6 (04:52):
For me, it was like this, I don't know, a
show and tell in a way of all of her
dreams and hopes and plans and intentions that she didn't execute.
So I kind of call it like the graveyard of
hopes and dreams.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Jody found unfinished drafts of books, business plan that had
never been implemented, and long lists of cool stuff that
her mother had wanted to do but never got around
to doing. It all hit Jody like a ton of bricks.
Speaker 6 (05:17):
Oh my gosh, I don't want to get to the
end and have all of these manuscripts not sent out,
and plans and hopes that I didn't try. You know
that felt more fearful to me than anything.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Jody wasn't exactly enjoying her life at the time. She
was very much in danger of repeating her mother's pattern.
Speaker 6 (05:33):
By this point, I was officially disenchanted at work, but
I didn't really know what to do about it. So
here I am day going about my work, and I
stabled a couple pages together, and my stapler ran out,
and so I went.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
To the storeroom.
Speaker 6 (05:43):
I loaded up the stapler, and this thought occurred to
me as I was putting the.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Row of staples into the stapler.
Speaker 6 (05:49):
I said, I'd better not be here by the time
this row of staples runs out.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
So Jody had finally set a time limit for taking action.
She was sure she'd be making some big changes, you
know soon right. But then one fateful day, the stapler
ran out again and Jody was still in her job
with no plan B, and.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I felt so dropkicked.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
That's when Jody had an epiphany.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Wait a sec.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
You can't just expect stuff to happen to you, to
be miraculously like helicoptered out of your average job into
something that's going to inspire you.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
You need to do something about it.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
And do something Jody did. She quit her boring job
and entered a master's program in positive psychology. During her studies,
she became fascinated with one topic, in particular, the concept
of death awareness, the act of intentionally thinking about your mortality.
It's a practice that the ancient's called Memento maury.
Speaker 6 (06:48):
It's the Latin phrase that means remember that we must die.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Memento mori has roots in religion and philosophy, but it
was also expressed through art and fashion, and Jody has
lovingly adopted these traditions. She wears black jewelry and draws
cartoons of the grim Reaper. Jody's favorite possession is a
tarnished gold coin engraved with the text of that Latin model.
Whenever Jody stumbles across the coin in her purse, she
(07:12):
ritualistically says, I AM going to die soon.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
It's just that little subtle reminder that says, oh, yeah, right,
we're temporary.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
It may sound morbid, but the science suggests that Jody
might be onto something. Researchers have studied what happens when
people come dangerously close to the end, Folks with fatal
cancers who suddenly got better, or survivors of terrible car accidents.
Speaker 6 (07:34):
It's like they put new glasses on and it can
see things with clarity that we don't because we're just
sweating the small stuff all frickin' day long. Whereas they
have this ability to say that little email that I
haven't answered yet.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
In the Kurian scheme of things, it's lucky to be alive.
That doesn't matter. This does, And one.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Thing that really matters to people who've nearly died are
their friends and family. People who face death make time
for those that matter and get more discerning about those
that don't.
Speaker 6 (07:59):
You enliven me, I'm going to spend more time with you.
You de energize me. I'm going to opt to spend
less or no time with you. So there's that refinement
of the way your time is spent.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Brushes with mortality also cause us to help others more often,
a practice that lots of research shows is a great
way to improve your well being. It's twenty twenty one
and Russell Lowe is lying in a California hospital bed.
Russell was a physician, but this time he's the one
in need of virgic care. Russell contracted an infection, a
bad one. His medical team wasn't sure he would make him. Eventually,
(08:34):
the doctors got the infection under control, but they told
Russell just how close he'd come to checking out for good.
Russell's near death experience shook him, but rather than turning inward,
he connected with the nurses who'd been at his side
throughout the entire ordeal. He began learning about the financial
hardships they faced while training to help people just like him.
This was my opportunity to live my life differently, to
(08:56):
give back to the people who are helping me. So
Russell set up a scholarship fund at cal State San
Marcos to give students the resources they need to become nurses.
His ordeal taught him to help pay it forward. Stories
like this happen all the time, But it turns out
you don't need an actual near death experience to change
your life. Research shows you can use your imagination. In
(09:17):
one study, psychologists told people to vividly imagine a near
death scenario, like waking up in a smoke filled room
and realizing your house is on fire. Subjects were then
invited to play a game that involved keeping a stash
of money for themselves or donating it to help other players.
People who thought about scary moments before the game behaved
more generously. They also experienced more gratitude than those that
(09:39):
didn't engage in a morbid reflection. And you don't even
need to get that morbid to start seeing some benefits.
In another experiment, college seniors were reminded just how little
time they had left at university. Afterwards, they reported higher
levels of happiness all the way up to graduation. And
why was that while seniors who got the college's short
memo wind up packing more fun activities in during their
(10:01):
final months than seniors who didn't get a reminder. When
time is short, we force ourselves to finally get around
to all the stuff we care about. We recognize we
don't have forever to complete that business plan or screenplay,
which motivates our brains to get over all the usual
doubts and actually take action.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
We have nothing to lose, and life's too short to
not do the thing that we might want to do.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
All this was sounding great in theory, but I mean,
just speaking.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
For myself, death is like an absolute doubt or like
it super freaks me out, Like I hate hate thinking
about it.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
How is it literally talking about it right now?
Speaker 5 (10:35):
As together?
Speaker 1 (10:36):
It's no, Seriously, it kind of freaks me out.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Like reading your book.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
The distinct sensation I experienced was that I'm about to vomit. Yeah,
it doesn't feel awesome. I'm really really avoiding of it. Yeah, yeah, Yeah,
can I be fixed? Can I be fixed? I think
you're fixable.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
JODI's fix begins with what she calls the life calculator exercise.
The goal is to calculate just how many mondays you
have left. You start with the average US life expectancy,
just over eighty years for women and just under eighty
for men. You then subtract your current age, take that
number and multiply it by fifty two. And that's about
(11:13):
the number of mondays you've got left. So if I
did the math right, I think it is eighteen forty nine.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Does that sound right? Yeah, eighteen forty nine. Please tell
me how nauseous did you feel?
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Right? Hollar?
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Very nauseous?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Like, eighteen forty nine is a big number, but it's
a pretty fineite.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
What can I actually fit into one thousand, eight hundred
and forty nine weeks? I mean, I love movies and
try to watch at least one new one a week.
Have I really got only one thousand, eight hundred and
forty nine movies left before I die? I mean, there's
probably not even enough time to get through that first
scrolling page on Netflix. How many more times am I
going to watch favorites like Casablanca or The Big Lebowski
(11:52):
or Star Wars, and god, how many more novels do
I have time left to read? Or restaurants to try out,
or fireworks displays to watch, or vacations to go on? Ugh.
The life Calculator exercise was giving me heart palpitations, but
Jody says that's kind of the point.
Speaker 6 (12:09):
So yes, and yes, I feel really revolted by this,
and I'm going to book a vacation. The dose is
just right enough to take my breath away, but not
enough to paralyze me.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
It's just enough to say, what am I doing? What's
this all about? Am I making the best use of
my time?
Speaker 6 (12:24):
And we have to reflectively keep coming back to that
reminder because we will get swept up in the current
of life.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
I get Jody's point here. I don't want to get
swept up in the current of life. But sorry, death
still terrifies me. I just hate letting it creep into
my thoughts. What I need is someone who can help
me think of death as a bit more.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
Fun like if you're going on a trip someplace, most
of us are like excited about it. You know, a
vacation that you plan for a year or so, you
like to throw to go. You know, we could do
the same thing with our dying.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
The happiness lab will return in a moment. So lots
of people.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Maybe think about death once in a while. I try
to avoid thinking about death. How often do you think
about death?
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Every day? Multiple times a day.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
This is Ailia Arthur. Ailua is definitely not scared of death.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
Sometimes when I'm doing something ridiculous, like reaching when I'm
in the shower for a towel, that's just like a
little bit out of my grip, and I wonder what
would happen if I slipped and hit my head on
the edge of the think But often I'm thinking about
death all the time.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
We tend to think of stuff associated with death as
being creepy. Funeral homes are creepy. Cemeteries are creepy. Morticians
are creepy. Aila switched careers to change that. She used
to be a lawyer and hated it. I was confused
and lost and hopeless. I had no sense of what
I wanted out of my own life. I couldn't figure
(13:53):
out what the point was. You know, you get up,
you go.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
To work, you pay your bills, to pay your taxes,
eat food. What is the point of all of this?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Ailua finally took a medical leave and headed to Cuba.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
And along the way I met a fellow traveler named Jessica,
a young German woman who had utin cancer and was
traveling to see the top six places in the world
she wanted to see before she died. It was kind
of like her bucket list trip. I mean, there was
like a little crack in the door, and I kicked
it all the way open. I asked so many very
very deep and personal questions, and she lit up in
(14:25):
answering them. Before you know it, we're speaking deeply about
her concerns about the afterlife of theirs one at all,
about what she hadn't done in her life, about her
sadness about her disease. And she shared with me that
it was the first time that she had been able
to have a real conversation about her mortality. People would
hush her, people would say, oh, don't worry about that,
You're going to get better, which is what we do.
(14:46):
You have to have hope, but you have to have faith.
She was like, all those things might also be true,
but I am also very sick with the disease that
might kill me. It was the first time that I
had been involved in that deep of a conversation about
the trajectory of one's life. But it also allowed me
to see how disconnected I'd been from the idea of
my own mortality. When I started thinking about my death,
(15:09):
the lid kind of came off, Well, who am I?
What do I want? What do I value? If the
end of my life were at the end of this year,
would I be okay to go? Would I be fighting
it to the nail? What do I still want to do?
It started to create a context that I never had before.
I was now feeling fully aware that it would end
at some point, So, knowing that it's going to end soon,
(15:31):
how do I want to fill it? It started to
shift the dial for me toward creating a life that
I would have felt comfortable dying from. And that's a
direction toward happiness for sure.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
But the direction Ailua took might surprise you. She didn't
just lays around on Caribbean beaches all day. She decided
to spend her days with people facing their final days.
You see, Alua became a death doula.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
A death doula somebody who does all of the non
medical care and support of the dying person through the
entire process. And how we define dying person really depends,
because anybody who's come into recognition or their mortality at
some point must also reckon with the fact that they
are currently dying. But overall, we're supporting folks when they
have some awareness that death is approaching and want to
(16:16):
plan and prepare.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
For Aileo describes her journey in a new book entitled
Briefly Perfectly Human, making an authentic life by getting real
about the end. Much of the impetus for taking on
this new role came from watching her brother in law
face terminal cancer.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
I remember very distinctly trying to keep track of all
the questions that I had. You know, it was my
sister's husband, and so she'd be with him in the hospital,
and I'd be on the computer, click clock clock and
trying to get some information, trying to answer these questions,
and it was so tough. It was really tough to
navigate that process. I wanted somebody to be there. I
wanted somebody who cared, somebody who had enough resources, who
(16:53):
had answers to my questions or at least would say,
I don't know yet, but I'm going to find out
for you.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Death doula's are a lot like birth doula's, those professionals
trained to support people having a baby.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
It just had a really good conversation with a friend
of mine who was pregnant, and she was talking all
about her birth plan, and she was talking about going
to the birth thing center and what she's eating and
what she likes to experience. Thinking through the plan helped
her quell her anxiety about what it is that's going
to be happening. Much like a birth dollah, death doulahs
can support people along the way, help them get clear
(17:23):
on their values so what they want it to look like,
what kind of support that they need.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
And pregnancy isn't the only time we seek out outside support.
We're all perfectly happy to have professionals guide us through
other big life events. I mean, we have therapists who
help us through tough times, math tutors to guide us
through calculus, and personal trainers to get us into shape.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
And so to me, death dullah's are a very very
natural and easy addition to that list of people that
can support At the time when I think we probably
need them the most.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Ailua now has hundreds of clients, and while I wasn't
ready to have her plan out my own death just yet,
I did want to learn about the wisdom she'd gained
from being so very close to death so very often.
I mean, she's heard so many people reflect on their
hopes and fears and regrets about the end. How has
that changed her own views on life.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
I'm not a nihilist any means, but I wonder if
we put so much focus on making meaning in order
to contextualize life and make it make some type of
sense where there is no sense to be made. And
so rather than continuing to try to force things into
some box to make it make sense, maybe we can
just let go and experience it for what it is,
which is a really wild ride. So the meaning can
(18:29):
be made out of the little things that bring us joy,
the things that make being alive feel like a gift
in some capacity.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
As we continued chatting, I was struck by alu As
constant gratitude. She just seems so appreciative of the things
that I take for granted all the time.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
There is so much magic in the fact that we live,
you know, the fact that we are human just to
be alive, to be present for whatever our bodies capabilities are.
That in and of itself is a miracle, which makes
doing the dishes also feel like a miracle. To feel
water on my hands, to feel heat, to feel soap,
all of that grounding in my mortality means that at
(19:06):
some point I won't have access to all these senses anymore,
you know, And so how cool is it that I
can feel cold on my hands? How cool is it
that either have plates for me to eat off of?
That all makes me feel so much more connected to
this really strange experience of life.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I mean, when you say it like that, facing your
death doesn't sound so horrible things that are happening in
the present moment, but.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Right now it still feels a little terrifying.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I mean, are you still skipped by it or is
it like, like, what are the emotions that it brings
up for you?
Speaker 5 (19:35):
Curiosity? Mostly, I'm really really curious because all of the
questions around it remain a mystery. You know, I don't
know when it'll be Maybe it is just a really
fantastical ride through the universe and then there's no more
consciousness or maybe the afterlife, if there is one, is
like this really glorious place of existence. I have no idea,
(19:56):
and so I'm curious about it.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I was gonna say, so you experienced that as curiosity,
but I experience that as terror. So my usual move
when I don't know something is to like check right.
So I'm going to a restaurant and I'm thinking, oh,
I don't know if they have a good cocktail menu.
I pull out my phone and I like, check the
cocktail menu. You know. I'm going to a new doctor,
and I don't know how good he is, right Like,
I look up and try to check on these things.
(20:19):
But I think one of the scary things for me
about death is like, seems like you can't do that
with death.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
You stin't know, you can't you don't.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Know, And so talk about how you can kind of
sit and allow that uncertainty.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
Rather than imagine the worst possible scenario, I imagine one
that brings me some comfort. I imagine something that makes
me feel good about it. Because I don't know, and
we can't know, and what we tend to do is
flood the uncertainty with dread and fear and the opposite
could also be true. Like if you're going on a
trip someplace, most of us are like excited about it.
(20:52):
You know, a vacation that you planned for a year
or so, you're like thrill to go. You've never been
there before. Maybe you've read some reviews, and I mean,
I think a good review about death is that nobody
has been there, has ever been back. They stayed there,
must love it, they must love it, must be a
good time. So you're going on a trip, research maybe
like the food there, hotel, what you're going to do
while you're there. You get on a plane, you have
(21:14):
no idea what's to come when you land, Yet we
anticipate that joyfully. We could do the same thing with
our dying. Every day we don't know. I wake up
not knowing if it's going to rain, whether or not
I'll need to pee on my way to work. We
don't know. We don't know anything about this life. So
we already are really masterful at navigating the unknown. We
(21:34):
keep navigating it. Plans change and we shift. We adapt,
or we get divorced, we adapt, we get a new job,
We adapt, over and over and over again.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
This remarkable capacity to adapt is what the psychologist Dan
Gilbert has christened our psychological immune system. Just as we
have a physical immune system to protect our bodies from
physical threats, so too, do we have a psychological immune
system designed to protect our mental health from psychological threats.
When uncertain moments come up, like a divorce, or a
scary diagnosis, or a struggle at work, our psychological immune
(22:07):
system unconsciously takes over to help us adapt and thrive
through the uncertainty. Alua was reminding me that when it
finally comes time to face the scariness of my own death,
my psychological immune system will be there to help me adapt,
just like it always has.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
We know how to do it already, and so we
could attach the same perspective that we use on living
for our dying that when the time comes, I will adapt.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Chatting with Aluo was reminding me that I'm stronger than
I think even when it comes to facing death. So
when we get back from the break, I'll get even
more hardcore and my quest to embrace mortality. I'll go
on a death safari right in my own neighborhood, and
I'll attempt to stare my impermanence straight in the face.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Okay, so heading.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Over to the mirror. Yeah, uh, that's my aging forty
something body.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
The Happiness Lab will be right back. Like I don't
like anything that's finite, Like I don't like when a
meal ends, I don't like when a vacation ends. I
don't like what a really good television series ends. And
so the idea that I my end is like really
(23:18):
uncomfortable for me.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
It's difficult to think of myself as finite.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Death do la Ailua Arthur is very gently helping me
work through my fanta hiphobia.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
My drive for life is big, and that makes it
hard to also release and to let it go when
I love it so much. But I think about this
all the time because when we say we love something,
I can't love it and also not love the end
of it. My end is a part of my life.
If I'm going to love my life, I've got to
love it all.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
This idea of loving it all is something we've talked
about on this podcast before. We tend to pooh pooh experiences.
We don't enjoy feelings like sadness, anxiety, and fear, but
study after study shows we'd be better off embracing the
tough stuff in life rather than pushing it away like death.
Painful experiences are just part of what there is to love.
Speaker 5 (24:05):
They are part of the human experience whole. Humans feel
a whole host of emotions, and none of them are
bad or wrong. They're just maybe a little bit more difficult.
So at least reframing to think of it as just
a part of what it's like to be human that
supports me a lot. Like even on my tougher days,
when I'm feeling like I'm in the trenches, I often
remember that this is just part of what it means,
(24:26):
this is just how it goes.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
And I think another interesting thing about like recognizing the
temporariness of these negative emotions temporary like because you're going
to die, is it can actually make you enjoy them
more in a weird way. Right after I finished your book,
I kind of had this weird stomach thing.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
It had nothing to do with your book.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
By the way, It's a separate eating incident, but because
I had just been thinking so much about my impermanence,
I like readed what I would normally think of as
a not good sensation very differently, where I thought, Huh,
how curious that I'm experiencing something. I'm experiencing something that
feels really intense, kind of brought with it a sort
of kind of strange gratitude for something that I wouldn't
(25:04):
have had any gratitude for normally. Is this the kind
of thing you see in some of the people you
work with.
Speaker 5 (25:10):
I've been noticing that more and more.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
And also a way to hold like the difficult stuff
very very gingerly, you know, because often when people are dying,
there's a hole of things going on in the body.
Hopefully the pain is well controlled, but the body's doing
things that we're not familiar with, we can't control it
at all, and holding it very very lightly today the
optic nerve is not working or today this is what
(25:33):
I'm experiencing. Does allow folks to move through the process,
I think, with a little bit more grace for themselves
and for their dying.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
I told Ailua that I do want all the benefits
that come with accepting my mortality. The research suggests it'll
make me more compassionate, it'll encourage me to be more mindful,
and it'll push me to achieve stuff that I really
want to achieve in life. But I explained, I really
hate the idea that I'm going to die someday, and
that is when Ailua hit me with a truth bomb.
(26:02):
Death Is it some distant appointment oft in the future.
I'm actually deep in the process of dying right now.
Lewis says, I need to get used to that idea.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
Because if we can get more comfortable with the fact
that living and dying is also happening, and which will
be happening all the way up until we're actually dead,
I think it maybe eases a bit of that fear
like one day I'm going to be dying. No, You're
dying right now. So noticing the living and dying things
that are around our environment.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Aila suggested an exercise to help with this, one that
I tried out on my morning walk to my favorite
coffee shop. I took my usual path, but this time
I tried to notice all the signs of dying that
I normally ignore. I saw the gorgeous irises in my
neighbor's yard that had wilted and turned brown, that plaque
commemorating a fallen soldier from World War Two, a banana
(26:50):
appeal rotting on a compost heap. I was shocked to
realize there were lots of signs of mortality all around me.
Noticing these things helped me remember that in the grand
scheme of things, I'm not so different from that rotting
banana or dried out flower. And for the first time,
this death awareness didn't make me nauseous. This time it
felt more like awe or connectedness, reassuring sense that I'm
(27:13):
just a small part of some larger hole. So when
I guess what next.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Another exercise that I sometimes encourage people to do, which
can be tough for some, I'm just going to go
ahead and say it, is to spend a little bit
of time in the mirror, looking at yourself, looking at
your body. I have a lot of mirrors in my house,
and at first I thought I was just painfully vain,
but I think that I really enjoy seeing myself and
(27:39):
also noticing the aging that's occurring all the time. And
I'm noticing the changes and approaching them without judgment as
best as possible, but rather with some awe and some curiosity.
My grades are popping off right now, and I find
it fascinating, like, look at this body. All the changes
has already been through, and death is going to be
just another change that the body's going through, but all
(28:00):
the changes it's already been through, like start start steeping ourselves,
and the fact that these bodies are very temporary beings.
They're fragile.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Okay, heading over to the mirror.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, that's my aging forty something body, getting some SAgs
where there were not SAgs before.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Definitely seeing that my skin is not what it used
to be. The mirror exercise was much more uncomfortable than
the death walk, but ultimately I was able to experience
a sense of awe how the passage of time was
changing my appearance.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah, fascination, curiosity. I guess my grays are popping off too.
So yeah, got through the mirror exercise without barfing. I'm
going to call that another death awareness.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
When here's the additional step that I think might be
a little resenting is to look at yourself in the
eyeballs and repeat to yourself, I'm going to die, Oh God,
a couple of times, two or three times, take deep
breasts in between. Okay, I see you smile.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
If that's not a smile, it's like a fear, like, yeah, okay,
here goes, I am going to can't if you look
at myself in the eyes when I say this mirror
exercise two point zero was way way tougher than just
staring at some gray hair. Let's try some psychological distance, Laurie,
(29:24):
you are going to die full disclosure. I found it
existentially overwhelming at first, but after a few mornings trying
it out, Okay, it helps. If I close my eyes,
I am going to die. I am going to die.
I am going to die.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
This exercise required a lot of bravery, but it also
hit exactly the kind of death awareness dose that psychologist
Jodie Wellman recommended earlier, a practice that does take your
breath away, but at the same time helps to inspire
a change.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
An astonishing life doesn't just happen to us. We have
to take action towards it. But sometimes taking that bold
step it does take courage.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
It's not exactly fun to remember that you're fine. Mortality
is a bummer, and thinking about it does feel like
a gut punch, But the science shows it's a gut
punch with a whole host of psychological benefits, ones that
I'm beginning to notice and appreciate. Reflecting on death has
helped me realize that there are lots of spots where
I'm just phoning in my life. My days are usually
(30:27):
busy and productive, but I don't always feel like I'm
really living. Thinking about my mortality has helped me remember
the people and places that light me up, and realizing
I have so few mondays left has made me start
scheduling stuff I really value. I've shifted from passive to
active mode. I bought a ring with that Latin phrase
on it, and Jody kindly sent me a ceramic skull
(30:49):
from her collection. It hasn't come easy, but I've learned
that a little bravery facing the tough stuff in life
and in death goes a long way, which reminds me
We've now come to the end of this season of
my grappling with the happiness challenges that I struggle with
the most. I wish I could say that these episodes
have turned me into some superwoman who's never stressed or
overworked or self critical. Sadly, I'm still just human, but
(31:13):
I think the strategies I've learned about over the last
few weeks have made me a better human. Maybe, Brian,
what do you think?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Am I a better human? Are you about human? I've
tried so hard during.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
These we should have planned this out. I began this
season by confiding in my friend and producer Ryan Dilley.
He's been along for this whole project, so now that
we're at the end, I thought i'd see how he
thought I did. I think you've been really brave.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
You've done a really good job. But some of these
really quite tough things. I'm kind of proud of you.
Oh you're proud of me. That's really sweet. I've earned
a ton from making they shows with you, But what
have you come away with?
Speaker 1 (31:50):
I mean, lots of things, but I guess the biggest
thing is just that I can still change, but there's
still a room for improvement.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
And it works if I give myself praise as your friend.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
That's such a lovely thing to hear im, And I'm
so proud that you're able to make that progress.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
This particular season may be over, but we're not taking
our summer break just yet. We'll have a longer justscussion
about what I learned from all the shows you've just heard,
and we've got some special Olympics themed shows too. I'll
chat with the runner who fell out of love with
the track, and we'll learn some happiness lessons from the
coaches who coached the coaches who coached Team USA.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
This is such a special occasion for me.
Speaker 6 (32:25):
I have been a big fan and it resonated so
much with me that we were sharing episodes of the
Happiness Lab with the coaches we were working with.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
That's a lot of coaches, so do come back next
time for the Happiness Lab with me. Doctor Laurie Santos
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