June 16, 2025 • 35 mins
We all have our own ways of coping - especially when things get tough. So for the next few shows we're going to talking to people with interesting coping strategies. And we start with Elias Weiss Friedman, aka The Dogist.
Throughout his life, Elias has found comfort in dogs. And when he got fired from his job, dogs came to the rescue again - they helped him forge a new career as a photographer and a social media star.
Elias discusses his journey and what he thinks dogs can teach us about being our best selves. And for more stories, check out his new book This Dog Will Change Your Life.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. When it comes to feeling happier, there's no one
size fits all approach when times get really tough. Many
of us have our own unique ways to cope, and
that is what we'll be exploring in this new season
of The Happiness Lab, the creative strategies that different people
(00:35):
use to bring joy back into their lives, especially during
times that don't feel so great. Over the next few episodes,
I'm going to be talking to people about their coping strategies,
the things that bring them pleasure and palm, that get
them out of the house and meeting new people, and
that ultimately help them cope when they're feeling overwhelmed. You'll
hear about the power of music, nature, sports, and simple
(00:56):
hobbies to make our lives happier. And First up is
the story of Elias Weiss's Friedman. If that name's not familiar,
go check your Instagram feed, because you might know Elias
better as the doggiest.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Right Italian greyhound in an outfit. Excuse me, I take
a photo of your dogs? I quite yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
For over a decade, Elias has walked the streets of
New York asking dog owners if he can take photos
of their pets. Elias's pup portraits are amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
How old is we go? You're in change? Yeah? Can
you have a little biscuit? Yeah that's true.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
But what's really made The dog Ist a huge hit
on social media are the heartwarming interactions Elias has with
both the dogs and the.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Humans that he Oh my god, I'm honored. I've never
met a witch's dog. There's a movie, a Disney movie
in there somewhere.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Elias has a new book out, This Dog Will Change
Your Life, which explores how dogs improve the lives of
so many people, and there's lots of research to back
this up. Studies show that dogs help us stay active
and engaged. They keep us in the moment and help
us notice our surroundings. They're also goofy companions who encourage
us to let down our barriers and talk to strangers.
But This Dog will Change Your Life isn't just a
(02:08):
book about dogs. In the abstract has lots of stories
from Elias himself about how our furry friends help us cope,
including tales from his youngest days which explained the very
special place dogs hold in his heart.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
It's a little bit of like a scary story.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Perhaps I was with my grandmother at her house and
she was watching me, and I was a toddler, and
she went in to get a jacket and left me
outside with Oreo, her black labrador.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
I don't know what was going through my head.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Maybe it was let's go on in an adventure. And
when she came back outside, I was gone. She called
the police and called my parents and fire department and everything.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
They thought the worst.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I don't remember it personally, this is what my parents
would tell me, but a landscaper saw me on the
side of the road with Oreo, and Oreo was sort
of like keeping me out of the road, and I
guess Oreo kept me out of harm's way. And it
was an early indication of my love of dogs, and
like that's part of my origin story.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
You could say.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
It also seems like you've been around dogs like your
whole life, and they've been kind of helping you your
whole life. Tell me a little bit about kind of
your childhood in some ways that dogs helped you even
back then.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I was always a shy kid. I was social, but
just not sort.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Of extroverted, introverted person, and dogs are sort of not
burdened by self consciousness and anxiety about approaching others. I mean,
not all dogs, but most of them are, I would say,
And so when you go up to a dog. That
was just sort of like a safe place for me
was going up to my dog Ruby and getting attention
(03:40):
and love. And I always had this sort of dry
sense of humor and would speak on my dog's behalf,
you know, make everyone in the house laugh.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
And that was me expressing myself in a very.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Like fun pure form that I didn't really get to
do otherwise.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Maybe this is too much, but can you do a
version of the Ruby ventriloquism for the podcast?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, let's see. She would go up to my brother
and say, like, hen, Wei, what are you doing? You
never pet me anymore? I don't know, it's been it's
been a while since I've done that in a while.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
But like you know, Ruby, you know, and other dogs
were like my muses, and it was like you're seeing
the true Lias come out, and it made everyone relax
and liked me more. That's where the origin of my
love of dogs, I think began, was just sort of
enabling me, as a shy kid, to be my true self.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Kind of going back to the origin stories, I wanted
to start with the second time a dog saved your life,
at least metaphorically set up what was going on when
you were twenty five and sor what happened next.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
So I worked in a brand strategy agency, helping companies
tell their story. It was a great job, Like I
learned probably more in that job than I did in college,
you know, just like about how to work in the
real world as a professional. But then, you know, me
and a colleague both got an email like, oh, come
to the office of like the group director, and I'm like, oh,
what's this.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Okay, we'll bring our notebooks. This could be our new thing.
We'll work together.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
And then it was a rainy day, just like today,
and he says things were slow at the office, so
today we'll be relaxed day.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And we're like, oh, okay. That was obviously a bit startling.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I was dreading having to slink home with the tail
between my legs and have to tell my friends and
family that I was fired. But that was the worst
of it. My inner child was like, oh, this may
actually be a good thing. I was in New York
as a twenty five year old, and I didn't know
what I wanted to do next, and so I sort
of sought the council of my friends who were in
(05:39):
the tech space in the city and who were like
making things on their own and being their own bosses.
And I sort of just had this moment of like,
what would I want to do instead of getting the
same job somewhere else, What is my soul want? I
want to hang out with dogs. I missed having a dog.
They're walking all over around New York City. People are
fascinated with them, They're obsessed with them. I had grown
up with the dark room in the house and had
always been into like creating dog content, and I had,
(06:03):
you know, a bunch of camera equipment. Within a year,
you know, I was like interviewing dogs about world news
on video. But that was a little bit like strange,
you know, to get people's dogs all riled up. But
then I started taking portraits. I was like the epiphany.
I just remember, like I was in Williamsburg in Brooklyn
and came across a frenchie and I.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Like had said, Okay, may I take a photo of.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Your French shye and he said, yeah, I did, and
then he said what's this for? And I was like
the doggiest and just so I rolled off my tongue.
I was like it sounded good, and then I was
off to the races. It sort of started as a joke,
like wouldn't it be funny to photograph dogs in this
sort of serious way, you know, the sartorialist for dogs.
And I would walk around the streets of New York.
(06:41):
I figured out my system. You know, I'm wearing the
same pants I wore eleven years ago, these like cargo pants.
I used to wear knee pads because I need to
get down into the dog zone, the dog level. Literally,
My job was a walk in the park. I would say, oh,
I'm gonna go to Central Park today, or I'm going
to go to Brooklyn or walk around Soho and just
try and create great images, whether the dog stands out
(07:02):
on its own because it's like unique looking or charismatic,
or the person is wearing like cool shoes or an outfit.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Of course, my dad was like, how are you going
to make money? Like this is like what is this?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
When are you going to get a real job type
of thing like, But that was sort of like the
moment when I accepted myself this is going to be okay.
This is going to be good. How could people not
love this? People love dogs, so I've chosen a good subject.
And also people love New York. New York has this magnetism.
Everyone around the world is so curious about New York.
(07:34):
And it just sort of got traction quickly, and you know,
Huffy in Post and all local news, and of course
everyone was like, thank god, this now exists. And so
I went from being a twenty five year old person
in New York trying to like find their purpose to
being celebrated as like an artist and a dog person,
like celebrated for something I really wanted to do that's fun,
(07:57):
and like I wanted to be known for.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
And so the dogs save me again.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
I mean, one of the cool things about what you
do is that you're kind of using the power of
technology for good. I think, unlike many influencers, you're really
using the power of technology to get people to connect
rather than divide people. You had this lovely quote in
your book where you said, I think sometimes dog content
is the single strand of why are tethering our society
to decency insanity? Kind of explain what you mean there.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
That's sort of like, I think part of the success
of the doggest is that everything on the Internet is
very like grown up most of the time, or we're
expected to take things seriously, and here I was being like,
what if, like we just had a whole account about dogs,
this is what the dogs would want for us? And
everyone was like, oh my god, can we actually do that?
(08:44):
Can we make this a real thing? And I'm like, yeah,
we can. The joke is like, you know me, this
guy who's like going to take this project extremely seriously.
I'm going to get this really dramatic pictures of dogs
and our kneepads and like make this his whole life.
And the whole thing is kind of like a joke,
Like dogs don't really want their pictures taken, not that
they wouldn't, but they don't conceive of what a camera is,
(09:05):
so no dog is ever like don't post that, like
delete that, make sure take it down, Like my nose
looks big or my ears look weird, Like there are
these beings that live with us and are completely free
of the things that we are so worry about. If
only we could be like that, if only we could
tell our most embarrassing story, post our least flattering picture,
(09:25):
and be in front of you know, ten million people
and not care.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Did RDY see the post? I hope he doesn't think
I'm weird.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Now the first time you went out on that photo shoot, like,
what was that?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Like?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I trusted my gut. I knew that there was something there.
I mean, everyone's a dog photographer, right. I was not
the first person with this idea to create a project
around dogs, but I just sort of decided I wanted
to take it to another level. I grew up in
a house that was a little bit zany, the dog
vnchrolcism thing where dogs are sort of like have inner monologues.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Like I didn't create that. I was steeped in that
growing up.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
But the idea of creating a whole project around something
that on the surface seems like silly. If you have
to be a little disruptive and be willing to be
disrupt and to not listen to other people in order
to find success in the thing that you love. And
motivational speaker Gary Vaynerchuk, he would say things like, do
your smurf blog. Whatever it is that you think is cool,
(10:22):
there are many people who also would find it cool.
And of all the things I chose. I chose one
of the most popular things dogs. But at the time,
this was like before really being an influencer was a thing,
and like we were still figuring out what like social media.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Was and what it could be.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
And so I did the thing that seemed strange at
the time but was sort of the thing we all needed.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Talk to me about just how big the dogs has
gotten since that first Frenchie photo.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah, I mean it's been eleven years, going on twelve years,
and I've garnered an audience of close to ten million
people from all around the world, become a New York
Times bestselling author, my first narrative book coming out about
my experiences working with all types of incredible dog organizations,
being invited to the White House, you know, ptograph something
(11:09):
like fifty thousand dogs.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Maybe that's a world record.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
I don't know, but it's certainly changed the fabric, you know,
I say change the fabric of who I am, but
really it's just it is who I am.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
It also seems like it's given you other ways to
find a sense of purpose, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
I mean when I was like, let go for my job,
I kind of had this bitterness in a way of
like well, if people don't like me, well, dogs are great.
I've always felt that way that like dogs represent like
the type of person we wish we could be. We
designed dogs largely we picked the ones that we loved.
That's how Golden Retrievers came to be. They just they're
(11:44):
not a naturally occur occurring thing. We picked dogs that
we loved and and you know, dogs are extremely expressive,
and of all the animals out there, they're the ones
that are extremely generous with eye contact. So when you
look at them, it feels like they're staring into your soul,
which they basically are. And so that dopamine hit, that
oxytocin that you get from just being around a dog
(12:05):
and having eye contact and feeling the sense of being
in the present, existing and pure love is something.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
I didn't want people to take for granted.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
And that's sort of my top line mission as the
Doggist is to help us appreciate dogs more than we
already do.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
And of course no amount of obsession is enough.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
We're going to take a quick break, but when we return,
Elias and I will explore the science of why dogs
can be so good for you. Dog photographer Elias Weiss
Friedman used his pup to navigate the shyness of his childhood.
Later on in life, dogs gave him a fulfilling career
(12:48):
path after he got fired. Dogs can indeed be a
glimmer of light in our darkest days, which is why
when times are very tough, so many of us think
about getting one.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
The stat that I always think of around that is like,
after nine to eleven happened in New York, the population
of dogs doubled in the city. Something similar happened with
a pandemic, and you said, I can curse on the
show at least.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
The thing, the thing I imagine is going through people's
minds is like when something bad happens, when it seems
like the world is ending or something, people are like,
fuck it, I'm going to get a dog. What am
I waiting for? Why am I delaying happiness? I've been
working this job for ten years. I'm not happy. Maybe
it's all for nothing. Maybe if I could just die
(13:34):
the next day, you know, why not? I just be
happy now? And so that's when people get dogs, because
it's like, let's do this now.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Havebnout that I love.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
That, And if it's with so much of what the
science shows this, which is that dogs have all these
benefits both for our health and our happiness. Let's just
start with our health. You know, researchers talk about this
so called pet effect where you get double digit reductions
and things like heart disease and even like other risk
factors for dying just by having a dog. And you
talked about this in your book, with this idea that
dogs help our physical health because they get us moving,
(14:04):
just something you saw even as a shy kid, right.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
They get us out of the apartment, they get us walking.
I mean, it seems sort of like it's almost like
a boring fact, but it's so real.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
There's also like a real ritual to the dog walk too,
that you've talked about, that it's not just kind of
getting outside, but you're kind of doing something that has
this present ritual quality.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Like if we didn't have our dog, we would sleep
in probably and our circadium rhythms would be off. We'd
probably drink more because we be like, oh, we've no responsibilities.
We get sunlight at the beginning of the day, We
establish relationships with people in our neighborhood. One of the
things I've been saying recently. And I may sound like
a broken record because I've been saying it is before
(14:44):
you get a dog, you know your neighbor, and after
you get a dog, you know you're a neighborhood. Like
for all the intangible things that dogs do for us,
there are some very real tangible ones. They get you
out and you meet ten people, and so you take
the dog away, you're staying inside on your computer and
you meet zero people or maybe one person on the internet,
which counts for half a point.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And this seems to be one of the real profound
things that dogs do is that they can kind of
be this social lubricant. In your book, you talk about
the importance of dog assisted conversations. What do you mean
there and why can those be so important?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Yeah, dogs are fur icebreakers. People are passing each other
on the street. They probably are like ships in the night.
They don't say hi to one another. But like you know,
two people walking their dogs, their dogs.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Are going to say hi.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
They're going to be interested, and then all of a
sudden you're striking up a conversation. They're the spark that
are creating and catalyzing this social interaction.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
What else is going to do that.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
I mean, it's like people will go to the bar,
they'll go to like social events, and maybe that'll happen,
but on a daily basis, like as a daily routine
of walking your dog, there's nothing else like it.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
This is something you've also seen just in your role
of taking pictures of people's dogs. You've mentioned how even
though at first people are kind of like a bit
weirded out by you showing up and talking to them,
ultimately you get the sense that they're kind of relieved
to have someone to talk to.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yeah, people like talking to another person, even if they
don't seem that way, Like from five feet away, people
want to engage.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
You know that the Internet and the society.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
That we've become where we're glued to our phones, sense
of like loneliness is so high, where like how much
eye contact and conversation do you have in person? But
anymore we're starved of it. This is like the weird
state of society right now where you can totally get
away with not talking to people. And so here I
am the sort of random person who wants to say
(16:27):
hi to your dog, and then all of a sudden
is asking you a question and wants to know your
opinion and wants you to tell a story and I
just stop talking and let you talk, and they're like, what,
it's my turn, Like I have the microphone. This is
kind of cool, like I've I'm happy that you're letting
me tell a story. And also the stories are about
our dogs are like the one type of story we
(16:47):
feel totally liberated to give every detail about. You know,
when we're talking about ourselves or we're talking about people
we know, we're like, well, I don't know if they'll
want me to say that, or I shouldn't say that
about myself, or like how will people judge me or
think of me? But with the dog, it's like let
me tell you that one. You know, like how like
freeing and fun is that to just laugh and like
connect with someone about a story and just include every detail.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
And I know that.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
People will like me for this story that I'm telling,
Like you know, a lot of people know the dogs
at this point, and they know like that their dog
is going to be seen by a lot of people
and the story is going to be heard, and it's
just sort of like it's awesome to I'm sure be
the person to sort of share something authentic and also
watch people be authentic.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah. I mean this is something that we know from
some of the research, right, which is that what really
connects people are these like deep, very vulnerable conversations where
you show your messy self and you kind of take
some humor in that, right, But it can be really
hard to do just talking about yourself. But somehow the
dot when you're talking about your dog, you can do that,
and it sometimes leads to kind of vulnerabilities about yourself
that you wouldn't share either, because you start with the
(17:51):
dog and then it kind of leaks into you talking
about yourself.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
It's all connected.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
You know, a story about our dog is also really
a story about us, you know, unconditional love and helping
them meet their significant other. You know, we're such good
like detectives of when people are bullshitting. You know, we
watch someone and talk and it's like, I don't know
about themselves, but the way people light up and let
(18:15):
their hair down when they're talking about their dogs and laughing,
and it's just sort of like charming to watch.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
You've also found that kind of connecting over dogs can
really help us get over our political differences.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Yeah, I you know, I'm always like looking at the
dog first when I'm walking around. So I saw a
German shepherd and like, oh, beautiful dog. I asked them,
they take a photo of your dog?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
It sure?
Speaker 3 (18:38):
And he, you know, he turns around. He's like wearing
a big Trump shirt. And you know, in New York City,
walking around with that, you're sort of like asking for attention.
And so I'm like, oh, he's making a political statement,
and like that's not what the dogs is about, and
I like to keep it sort of a political But
then the second thought was just like, we're just talking
(18:59):
about his dog here. Why do I need to like
get political with this, Like I'm making it political. You know,
let's just be humans here. Forget the shirt and we
connected about the dog. The dog save the day. You know,
it was a reminder of how important is that we
don't be at odds with each other, and dogs help
us not be at odds with each other. I've heard
so many stories about people across party lines who when
(19:23):
they find out that someone who they might be opposed
to politically is a dog person, you know, they can
get along now. It's like we have common ground, Like
you're cool, that's healthy politics. Right, we can disagree and
still hear each other out, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
And so that's how dogs can connect us with one another.
But another thing we get from dogs also is just
the social support and the connection that they give us directly.
And this seems like something you've heard most on the
dog is you talk about if there is one message
you get from all the kind of dog lovers you've met,
it's just this idea of unconditional love.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Ask people point blank, like, what's your favorite thing about
having a dog, It's like almost ninety percent they'll say, like,
it's when I come home and the dog is just
so happy to see me. Because sometimes we feel stressed
during the day, it affects our mood. But when we
come home and there's someone who doesn't know what happened
to us that day, and it's just so unconditionally happy
(20:15):
to see us and isn't asking questions about the work
drama or how the presentation go. There's just something very
soothing and comforting about that. That consistent happiness we can
expect and we can plan on it that sort of
washes away the anxiety we may have.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
It's like one hundred percent of the time, Kida, you
know kind of belly rub like how are you? That
is such a mood enhancer.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
There's also lots of evidence that it really literally decreases
our stress and our level of pain. One of my
favorite studies had participants like put their hand in this
so called cold presser task, which is like you actually
put your hand in the super super cold water that
puts you in pretty terrible pain, and you either have
a dog present or not, and they find that you
literally experience less pain when you have a dog present.
(21:02):
So it seems like all the anxieties of work, all
that stuff, we come home and they're literally helping us
through it.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah, I'm not surprised by that. And they're extremely intuitive
about our emotional state. I'm pretty sure they can like
smell it. I just did a talk at Harvard and
they have this lab there where they did an empathy
test where I pretended to hit my finger with a
hammer and I faked it and started crying, you know,
like ahow, and the dog came running up and licked
me on the face. Dogs are extremely empathetic. They know
(21:30):
when things aren't going well, they know when you need love.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
They will give it to you whenever you need it,
and we need it more often these days, I think.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
And I think that's another thing we forget that dogs
can give us, That dogs can connect us better to ourselves.
They can kind of model how we should be treating ourselves.
And I know this is something you talk about a lot.
You've argued that dogs can make us a little bit
less self conscious, which is helpful and kind of maybe
less self critical too. What do you mean there?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Yeah, I think we see the way that dogs are
free with themselves, how they are totally candid. They express
their emotions, whether it's fear or happiness or confused or sadness,
without any hesitation about the way they're perceived. You know,
I don't know that dogs have a sense of humor,
but I think I think they do. You know, like
(22:16):
I feel like dogs would be like funny and just
sort of like willing to be silly. Like you see
the way dogs play with each other. And so when
we see that, I don't know whether it's mirroring or something,
or behavioral association, but we become more like that. We think, Okay,
maybe it's okay to like just be ourselves, to not
look in the mirror and question how it will be
(22:36):
perceived by others. One of the stories I read about
is my wife Sam and I went to a Halloween
party and everyone was masked and we were all freely
talking to one another and in our anonymity, like a
dog would running into a dog park. And later on
the night, this person we were talking to she took
off her mask, and my wife Sam was all of
(22:58):
a sudden started freaking out and she'd be like, you
know who that is, That's like one of my heroes,
like this famous person, And all of a sudden she was,
you know, self conscious and like, oh, I don't know,
like if I should talk to her. We'd already been
talking to her for thirty minutes about bagels, you know,
like what's the big deal. But dogs, they don't have
an ego, you know, they have an ability to just
be themselves, to run into the park and sniff butts
(23:20):
and not worry about how that other dog may think
of them. That initial sort of lack of fear around
their reputation and being self conscious is something that we
admire and we wish we could possess more. And that's
probably the biggest reason why I gravitated towards dogs, because
I was shy, and dogs aren't shy, And just by
(23:42):
being at the other end of the leash of a dog, you,
by proxy, you just become less shy, you know, more social.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
It's time for another break, but we'll be back soon
to discuss the surprising ways that dogs can help us
heal after trauma. The Happiness Lab will be back in
a moment, and his role is social media sensation. That
dog is Elias Wiss. Free Men had the privilege of
(24:10):
photographing hundreds of dogs each year, but Elias's fame has
also given him the chance to meet some very special
pops service dogs, dogs that are individually trained to help
people with health issues or disabilities. These encounters have had
a huge impact on Elias. In his book This Dog
Will Change Your Life, he describes one such meeting with
a woman named Sharon.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Sharon, she was an army nurse and as an army nurse,
you see people in their worst moments of their lives,
right you can only imagine, and so when you come back,
those memories don't go away. And so this woman had
a dog from America's Vet Dogs who basically helps her
(24:51):
with a PTSD and nightmare interruption and dog will turn
the lights on so that she doesn't have to enter
a dark room. So yeah, you know, I've worked with
America's Vet Dogs a number of times over the years
and scheduled this series, you know, for veterans. And so
I went to Sharon's house in New Jersey and everything
was just sort of like normal, Like she was just
talking to me like a regular person and telling me
(25:13):
what her dog did for her.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
And it was not very dramatic. You know.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Later in the day we ended up at Later in
the day, we ended up at the headquarters and I
was speaking with America's Bet Dog CEO and she said, oh,
I heard you met up with Sharon earlier. And said, yeah, yeah,
and you know, recounted it a little bit and she said,
you know that Sharon used to be nonverbal and she
(25:39):
would shake.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
And sorry, it gets to me like it's talking about.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
It, but like that, that's that's what her dog did
for her. So, through all the stuff that she's been
through and state that she was in previously, to have
a dog come in and just change who she is
as a person, it's hard to quantify that, you know
the power of a dog that to take someone who
(26:09):
is completely non functional, make them appear normal, Like, how
do you how do you quantify that?
Speaker 1 (26:15):
You've also seen this again and again with dogs who've
been working with veterans. I know you've talked about Nathan,
another retired vet from the Air Force. You know, how
did his dog help him?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Nathan, he worked, as he would say, in nukes in
the nuclear division. And the one thing you have to
be to work in that space is one hundred percent
good all the time.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Are you okay? Yes?
Speaker 3 (26:38):
So that's like being a robot basically, And Nathan wasn't
always okay. It's so intense, like you can't even have advil.
And so for his whole career that's the way he
had to be. And you know, he had all types
of like physical ailments because of a number of hours
he had to be at the controls. And so when
he retired, how do you like deprogram all that training
(26:59):
and live in a relationship with someone and be a
human again after you know, what if you're not okay?
And so he became like a shut in and like
was completely a social all had all types of fear
of things, and only he could articulate all those details.
But he knew he needed help, and as a veteran,
he reached out to this organization of America's Vet Dogs
(27:21):
and he got this dog.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Fast forward a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
He's now a public speaker and is like the most outgoing,
big personality, you know, he's.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Like a mohawk.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
He's a totally different person, or rather he is his
true self instead of a scared person who's affected by PTSD.
And so once again, the dog isn't doing all types
of magic tricks, and it's all in the subtlety and
in the nuances of living with a dog, and little
by little they chip away at these things that we
(27:54):
create for ourselves so that we can live a better life.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
So it seems like dogs have all these benefits even
in these extreme situations. But a lot of folks who
kind of see these benefits, or maybe you're thinking about
getting a dog, they don't actually take the plunge. And
one of the things I loved about your story was
it it surprisingly maybe it actually took you a while
to take the plunge too. I think this is one
of the dirty secrets of the early doggiest years, was
that you yourself did not have a dog.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Right, Yeah, well, I was on dog hiatus.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
You know, I sort of saw myself as a bit
of an artist, but I felt like a lot of
my motivation came out of this dog stalgia where I
missed having a dog.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
What would happen if I got a dog?
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Would I stop being the doggest Because I was driven
to meet other people's dogs and to travel around the
world and to try and meet as many dogs as possible.
And also obviously having a dog requires a lot of
responsibility and time. So I think there was just this
period in my life where I was just sort of
focused on building my career and exploring who I was
(28:56):
as a person. And I had all the dogs, is
what I would say when people had asked me that question.
But I was still missing something, right, Like, it's hard
to fully relate to other people and the relationship they
have with their dog if you don't have one yourself,
if you're not experiencing it yourself.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
So I grew up a bit, I matured.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
I mean it was during the pandemic that everything slowed
down and things came into context, into focus, and I
decided that I wanted to foster a dog, and then
I met Elsa. She came you know, from Texas and
on a rainy day, just like today, you know, she
came in into our house and I was like, oh
my god, oh crap, Like.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
She's amazing.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Maybe just describe her for it.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
She's a beautiful husky mix, all white, with a toasted
marshmallow top, two blue eyes, and a medium size. She's
like about fifty pounds, although in all honesty, she's like
fifty five pounds and needs to get back to fifty
pounds according to the vet. She spends too much time
at Grandma's house. And she's the best dog. You know,
(30:01):
every dog is the best dog, but she's also the
best dog. Extremely well behaved. She's non destructive and doesn't
bark unless she's at the dog park, doesn't eat street
treats off the ground.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, she's amazing.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
And you know, as the dog is, I was like,
what type of dog will I end up with? Like,
which is the dog for me? I've seen them all,
but Elsa is the right dog for me. You know,
she wasn't the dog I imagined sort of ending up with, Like,
but now I'm a husky guy. I love huskies or
husky mixes. They have a independent thinking mind. They're very smart.
(30:35):
They keep you on your toes, they do shed a lot.
Our vacuum gets a lot of use. You know, I've
heard people say like, once you get a dog that's
like very smart, then you're used to certain things, Like
they just have like an adeptness through life that is
sort of charming. And so I think I've gotten used
to that. Like she's really like her own independent person.
(30:56):
And you know, whenever we're having like chicken night or something,
she would go up to sam my wife and you know.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
Mommy all got the big piece of chicken. Yet that's
why I go to mo. Daddy had chicken too, but
Mommy all give me the big pieces. Daddy gives me
the small pieces. Not as good.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
And so even for you, it took a while to
maybe take the plunge. I know, what occupational hazard of
your job is that people ask you for advice all
the time about whether they should get a dog and
picking a dog. When you think about all the benefits
of having a dog, what advice would you give people
who are thinking about taking the plunge.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I think make sure you're ready.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
So many dogs that end up in shelters because people
aren't ready, whether it's because they are seeing some trend
on the internet around a certain breed, or a celebrity
has one and oh, I want that dog then, or
maybe the kids want a dog for the holidays. But
then the dog grows up and you haven't socialized or
trained it properly, and now it's sort of eating your apartment.
(31:54):
Like there's a whole bunch of things that you have
to be careful about and be responsible about. So I
think the first thing is, you know, researching what it
means to be a dog owner, what is required?
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Can you afford to have a dog?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
You know they're not as expensive as kids, but you
know you have to bring your dog to the vet.
Dog food can be expensive. And then if you check
all those boxes and you're truly sort of ready to
have a dog, and I think there's no like good
time to have a dog.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Now is a good time if you're ready.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
I love the idea of fostering a dog from a
rescue group because you get an idea of what that
dog will be like to live with and you can
try it out for a minute while doing an important service,
which is to help alleviate the shelter system. If you
have a dog for a couple of weeks and you say, oh,
like this is great. I love the feeling of this.
(32:42):
Follow your heart, you know. I think there's so many
ways to end up in a good situation with a dog,
as long as you're being responsible about it and you
do plenty of research. You know, if you do decide
that you want, you know, a puppy from a particular breed,
you should not be able to get that dog next weekend,
(33:02):
which is what a lot of people I think fall
prey too, is this sort of like oh, we want
like this gold noodle or something, and we can go
next week and when we're free. Like, that's a little
bit too impulsive in my book. You know, I've seen
the shelter systems how overcrowded they are. So I'm always
a proponent of if your heart isn't set on something
so specific, then oftentimes the best dog is already there
(33:24):
waiting for you. A lot of those dogs are mutts,
you know, they're one of a kind, interesting dogs. A
lot of them are are adults, so you know what
they're like already there, they're sort of temperament's already established.
You know what you're getting into And there's also this
sort of serendipitous cosmic thing that happens when you save
a dog from effectively they could be euthanized. Seriously, you
(33:47):
have a special relationship with that dog, and I think
that they know that you save them from that, that
you took them out of a place that was uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Dogs aren't meant to live in kennels. They're social beings.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
They're meant to live in the outside and get to
know their family and have a couch and predictability. So
if you put all those things together, that's sort of
the best way to go about it.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
In my opinion, dogs gives so many better I'm just
wondering what you think a world without dogs would look like.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
If you take dogs away, that would not be good.
Like hopefully that never happens. I think the world would
not be a better place. It would be more depressing.
We would go for a fewer walks, we would laugh
a lot less, we would spend less time vacuuming.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
That's one thing. I guess it would be a weird world.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Let's hope we never do have to live in a
world without dogs, because they are pretty awesome. But in
the unlikely event that you're not a dog person or
you're allergic to them. There's still a lot you can
take away from Elias and his story, because dogs are
a great reminder that the best way to cope is
often getting back to the happiness fundamentals. Whether without a dog,
you should get outside and get active, don't worry about
(34:57):
being goofy or vulnerable, find new ways to play and
get more present, and above all, make sure you excitedly
meet and greet the people around you, just like a
dog in a dog park would. While you work on that,
I'll be hard at work on the next episode in
our special season on creative coping strategies, in which we'll
focus on the surprising power of ritual and etiquette. Oh
(35:19):
and napkins, lots of napkins.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Does everybody not have a napkin collection? They should. I
can strongly advocate for having one.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
All that. Next time on the Happiness Lab with me,
Doctor Laurie Santos,
Pushkin. When it comes to feeling happier, there's no one
size fits all approach when times get really tough. Many
of us have our own unique ways to cope, and
that is what we'll be exploring in this new season
of The Happiness Lab, the creative strategies that different people
(00:35):
use to bring joy back into their lives, especially during
times that don't feel so great. Over the next few episodes,
I'm going to be talking to people about their coping strategies,
the things that bring them pleasure and palm, that get
them out of the house and meeting new people, and
that ultimately help them cope when they're feeling overwhelmed. You'll
hear about the power of music, nature, sports, and simple
(00:56):
hobbies to make our lives happier. And First up is
the story of Elias Weiss's Friedman. If that name's not familiar,
go check your Instagram feed, because you might know Elias
better as the doggiest.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Right Italian greyhound in an outfit. Excuse me, I take
a photo of your dogs? I quite yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
For over a decade, Elias has walked the streets of
New York asking dog owners if he can take photos
of their pets. Elias's pup portraits are amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
How old is we go? You're in change? Yeah? Can
you have a little biscuit? Yeah that's true.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
But what's really made The dog Ist a huge hit
on social media are the heartwarming interactions Elias has with
both the dogs and the.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Humans that he Oh my god, I'm honored. I've never
met a witch's dog. There's a movie, a Disney movie
in there somewhere.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Elias has a new book out, This Dog Will Change
Your Life, which explores how dogs improve the lives of
so many people, and there's lots of research to back
this up. Studies show that dogs help us stay active
and engaged. They keep us in the moment and help
us notice our surroundings. They're also goofy companions who encourage
us to let down our barriers and talk to strangers.
But This Dog will Change Your Life isn't just a
(02:08):
book about dogs. In the abstract has lots of stories
from Elias himself about how our furry friends help us cope,
including tales from his youngest days which explained the very
special place dogs hold in his heart.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
It's a little bit of like a scary story.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Perhaps I was with my grandmother at her house and
she was watching me, and I was a toddler, and
she went in to get a jacket and left me
outside with Oreo, her black labrador.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
I don't know what was going through my head.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Maybe it was let's go on in an adventure. And
when she came back outside, I was gone. She called
the police and called my parents and fire department and everything.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
They thought the worst.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I don't remember it personally, this is what my parents
would tell me, but a landscaper saw me on the
side of the road with Oreo, and Oreo was sort
of like keeping me out of the road, and I
guess Oreo kept me out of harm's way. And it
was an early indication of my love of dogs, and
like that's part of my origin story.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
You could say.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
It also seems like you've been around dogs like your
whole life, and they've been kind of helping you your
whole life. Tell me a little bit about kind of
your childhood in some ways that dogs helped you even
back then.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I was always a shy kid. I was social, but
just not sort.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Of extroverted, introverted person, and dogs are sort of not
burdened by self consciousness and anxiety about approaching others. I mean,
not all dogs, but most of them are, I would say,
And so when you go up to a dog. That
was just sort of like a safe place for me
was going up to my dog Ruby and getting attention
(03:40):
and love. And I always had this sort of dry
sense of humor and would speak on my dog's behalf,
you know, make everyone in the house laugh.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
And that was me expressing myself in a very.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Like fun pure form that I didn't really get to
do otherwise.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Maybe this is too much, but can you do a
version of the Ruby ventriloquism for the podcast?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, let's see. She would go up to my brother
and say, like, hen, Wei, what are you doing? You
never pet me anymore? I don't know, it's been it's
been a while since I've done that in a while.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
But like you know, Ruby, you know, and other dogs
were like my muses, and it was like you're seeing
the true Lias come out, and it made everyone relax
and liked me more. That's where the origin of my
love of dogs, I think began, was just sort of
enabling me, as a shy kid, to be my true self.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Kind of going back to the origin stories, I wanted
to start with the second time a dog saved your life,
at least metaphorically set up what was going on when
you were twenty five and sor what happened next.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
So I worked in a brand strategy agency, helping companies
tell their story. It was a great job, Like I
learned probably more in that job than I did in college,
you know, just like about how to work in the
real world as a professional. But then, you know, me
and a colleague both got an email like, oh, come
to the office of like the group director, and I'm like, oh,
what's this.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Okay, we'll bring our notebooks. This could be our new thing.
We'll work together.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
And then it was a rainy day, just like today,
and he says things were slow at the office, so
today we'll be relaxed day.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And we're like, oh, okay. That was obviously a bit startling.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I was dreading having to slink home with the tail
between my legs and have to tell my friends and
family that I was fired. But that was the worst
of it. My inner child was like, oh, this may
actually be a good thing. I was in New York
as a twenty five year old, and I didn't know
what I wanted to do next, and so I sort
of sought the council of my friends who were in
(05:39):
the tech space in the city and who were like
making things on their own and being their own bosses.
And I sort of just had this moment of like,
what would I want to do instead of getting the
same job somewhere else, What is my soul want? I
want to hang out with dogs. I missed having a dog.
They're walking all over around New York City. People are
fascinated with them, They're obsessed with them. I had grown
up with the dark room in the house and had
always been into like creating dog content, and I had,
(06:03):
you know, a bunch of camera equipment. Within a year,
you know, I was like interviewing dogs about world news
on video. But that was a little bit like strange,
you know, to get people's dogs all riled up. But
then I started taking portraits. I was like the epiphany.
I just remember, like I was in Williamsburg in Brooklyn
and came across a frenchie and I.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Like had said, Okay, may I take a photo of.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Your French shye and he said, yeah, I did, and
then he said what's this for? And I was like
the doggiest and just so I rolled off my tongue.
I was like it sounded good, and then I was
off to the races. It sort of started as a joke,
like wouldn't it be funny to photograph dogs in this
sort of serious way, you know, the sartorialist for dogs.
And I would walk around the streets of New York.
(06:41):
I figured out my system. You know, I'm wearing the
same pants I wore eleven years ago, these like cargo pants.
I used to wear knee pads because I need to
get down into the dog zone, the dog level. Literally,
My job was a walk in the park. I would say, oh,
I'm gonna go to Central Park today, or I'm going
to go to Brooklyn or walk around Soho and just
try and create great images, whether the dog stands out
(07:02):
on its own because it's like unique looking or charismatic,
or the person is wearing like cool shoes or an outfit.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Of course, my dad was like, how are you going
to make money? Like this is like what is this?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
When are you going to get a real job type
of thing like, But that was sort of like the
moment when I accepted myself this is going to be okay.
This is going to be good. How could people not
love this? People love dogs, so I've chosen a good subject.
And also people love New York. New York has this magnetism.
Everyone around the world is so curious about New York.
(07:34):
And it just sort of got traction quickly, and you know,
Huffy in Post and all local news, and of course
everyone was like, thank god, this now exists. And so
I went from being a twenty five year old person
in New York trying to like find their purpose to
being celebrated as like an artist and a dog person,
like celebrated for something I really wanted to do that's fun,
(07:57):
and like I wanted to be known for.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
And so the dogs save me again.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
I mean, one of the cool things about what you
do is that you're kind of using the power of
technology for good. I think, unlike many influencers, you're really
using the power of technology to get people to connect
rather than divide people. You had this lovely quote in
your book where you said, I think sometimes dog content
is the single strand of why are tethering our society
to decency insanity? Kind of explain what you mean there.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
That's sort of like, I think part of the success
of the doggest is that everything on the Internet is
very like grown up most of the time, or we're
expected to take things seriously, and here I was being like,
what if, like we just had a whole account about dogs,
this is what the dogs would want for us? And
everyone was like, oh my god, can we actually do that?
(08:44):
Can we make this a real thing? And I'm like, yeah,
we can. The joke is like, you know me, this
guy who's like going to take this project extremely seriously.
I'm going to get this really dramatic pictures of dogs
and our kneepads and like make this his whole life.
And the whole thing is kind of like a joke,
Like dogs don't really want their pictures taken, not that
they wouldn't, but they don't conceive of what a camera is,
(09:05):
so no dog is ever like don't post that, like
delete that, make sure take it down, Like my nose
looks big or my ears look weird, Like there are
these beings that live with us and are completely free
of the things that we are so worry about. If
only we could be like that, if only we could
tell our most embarrassing story, post our least flattering picture,
(09:25):
and be in front of you know, ten million people
and not care.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Did RDY see the post? I hope he doesn't think
I'm weird.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Now the first time you went out on that photo shoot, like,
what was that?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Like?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I trusted my gut. I knew that there was something there.
I mean, everyone's a dog photographer, right. I was not
the first person with this idea to create a project
around dogs, but I just sort of decided I wanted
to take it to another level. I grew up in
a house that was a little bit zany, the dog
vnchrolcism thing where dogs are sort of like have inner monologues.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Like I didn't create that. I was steeped in that
growing up.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
But the idea of creating a whole project around something
that on the surface seems like silly. If you have
to be a little disruptive and be willing to be
disrupt and to not listen to other people in order
to find success in the thing that you love. And
motivational speaker Gary Vaynerchuk, he would say things like, do
your smurf blog. Whatever it is that you think is cool,
(10:22):
there are many people who also would find it cool.
And of all the things I chose. I chose one
of the most popular things dogs. But at the time,
this was like before really being an influencer was a thing,
and like we were still figuring out what like social media.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Was and what it could be.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
And so I did the thing that seemed strange at
the time but was sort of the thing we all needed.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Talk to me about just how big the dogs has
gotten since that first Frenchie photo.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah, I mean it's been eleven years, going on twelve years,
and I've garnered an audience of close to ten million
people from all around the world, become a New York
Times bestselling author, my first narrative book coming out about
my experiences working with all types of incredible dog organizations,
being invited to the White House, you know, ptograph something
(11:09):
like fifty thousand dogs.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Maybe that's a world record.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
I don't know, but it's certainly changed the fabric, you know,
I say change the fabric of who I am, but
really it's just it is who I am.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
It also seems like it's given you other ways to
find a sense of purpose, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
I mean when I was like, let go for my job,
I kind of had this bitterness in a way of
like well, if people don't like me, well, dogs are great.
I've always felt that way that like dogs represent like
the type of person we wish we could be. We
designed dogs largely we picked the ones that we loved.
That's how Golden Retrievers came to be. They just they're
(11:44):
not a naturally occur occurring thing. We picked dogs that
we loved and and you know, dogs are extremely expressive,
and of all the animals out there, they're the ones
that are extremely generous with eye contact. So when you
look at them, it feels like they're staring into your soul,
which they basically are. And so that dopamine hit, that
oxytocin that you get from just being around a dog
(12:05):
and having eye contact and feeling the sense of being
in the present, existing and pure love is something.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
I didn't want people to take for granted.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
And that's sort of my top line mission as the
Doggist is to help us appreciate dogs more than we
already do.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
And of course no amount of obsession is enough.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
We're going to take a quick break, but when we return,
Elias and I will explore the science of why dogs
can be so good for you. Dog photographer Elias Weiss
Friedman used his pup to navigate the shyness of his childhood.
Later on in life, dogs gave him a fulfilling career
(12:48):
path after he got fired. Dogs can indeed be a
glimmer of light in our darkest days, which is why
when times are very tough, so many of us think
about getting one.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
The stat that I always think of around that is like,
after nine to eleven happened in New York, the population
of dogs doubled in the city. Something similar happened with
a pandemic, and you said, I can curse on the
show at least.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
The thing, the thing I imagine is going through people's
minds is like when something bad happens, when it seems
like the world is ending or something, people are like,
fuck it, I'm going to get a dog. What am
I waiting for? Why am I delaying happiness? I've been
working this job for ten years. I'm not happy. Maybe
it's all for nothing. Maybe if I could just die
(13:34):
the next day, you know, why not? I just be
happy now? And so that's when people get dogs, because
it's like, let's do this now.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Havebnout that I love.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
That, And if it's with so much of what the
science shows this, which is that dogs have all these
benefits both for our health and our happiness. Let's just
start with our health. You know, researchers talk about this
so called pet effect where you get double digit reductions
and things like heart disease and even like other risk
factors for dying just by having a dog. And you
talked about this in your book, with this idea that
dogs help our physical health because they get us moving,
(14:04):
just something you saw even as a shy kid, right.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
They get us out of the apartment, they get us walking.
I mean, it seems sort of like it's almost like
a boring fact, but it's so real.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
There's also like a real ritual to the dog walk too,
that you've talked about, that it's not just kind of
getting outside, but you're kind of doing something that has
this present ritual quality.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Like if we didn't have our dog, we would sleep
in probably and our circadium rhythms would be off. We'd
probably drink more because we be like, oh, we've no responsibilities.
We get sunlight at the beginning of the day, We
establish relationships with people in our neighborhood. One of the
things I've been saying recently. And I may sound like
a broken record because I've been saying it is before
(14:44):
you get a dog, you know your neighbor, and after
you get a dog, you know you're a neighborhood. Like
for all the intangible things that dogs do for us,
there are some very real tangible ones. They get you
out and you meet ten people, and so you take
the dog away, you're staying inside on your computer and
you meet zero people or maybe one person on the internet,
which counts for half a point.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And this seems to be one of the real profound
things that dogs do is that they can kind of
be this social lubricant. In your book, you talk about
the importance of dog assisted conversations. What do you mean
there and why can those be so important?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Yeah, dogs are fur icebreakers. People are passing each other
on the street. They probably are like ships in the night.
They don't say hi to one another. But like you know,
two people walking their dogs, their dogs.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Are going to say hi.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
They're going to be interested, and then all of a
sudden you're striking up a conversation. They're the spark that
are creating and catalyzing this social interaction.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
What else is going to do that.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
I mean, it's like people will go to the bar,
they'll go to like social events, and maybe that'll happen,
but on a daily basis, like as a daily routine
of walking your dog, there's nothing else like it.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
This is something you've also seen just in your role
of taking pictures of people's dogs. You've mentioned how even
though at first people are kind of like a bit
weirded out by you showing up and talking to them,
ultimately you get the sense that they're kind of relieved
to have someone to talk to.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yeah, people like talking to another person, even if they
don't seem that way, Like from five feet away, people
want to engage.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
You know that the Internet and the society.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
That we've become where we're glued to our phones, sense
of like loneliness is so high, where like how much
eye contact and conversation do you have in person? But
anymore we're starved of it. This is like the weird
state of society right now where you can totally get
away with not talking to people. And so here I
am the sort of random person who wants to say
(16:27):
hi to your dog, and then all of a sudden
is asking you a question and wants to know your
opinion and wants you to tell a story and I
just stop talking and let you talk, and they're like, what,
it's my turn, Like I have the microphone. This is
kind of cool, like I've I'm happy that you're letting
me tell a story. And also the stories are about
our dogs are like the one type of story we
(16:47):
feel totally liberated to give every detail about. You know,
when we're talking about ourselves or we're talking about people
we know, we're like, well, I don't know if they'll
want me to say that, or I shouldn't say that
about myself, or like how will people judge me or
think of me? But with the dog, it's like let
me tell you that one. You know, like how like
freeing and fun is that to just laugh and like
connect with someone about a story and just include every detail.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
And I know that.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
People will like me for this story that I'm telling,
Like you know, a lot of people know the dogs
at this point, and they know like that their dog
is going to be seen by a lot of people
and the story is going to be heard, and it's
just sort of like it's awesome to I'm sure be
the person to sort of share something authentic and also
watch people be authentic.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah. I mean this is something that we know from
some of the research, right, which is that what really
connects people are these like deep, very vulnerable conversations where
you show your messy self and you kind of take
some humor in that, right, But it can be really
hard to do just talking about yourself. But somehow the
dot when you're talking about your dog, you can do that,
and it sometimes leads to kind of vulnerabilities about yourself
that you wouldn't share either, because you start with the
(17:51):
dog and then it kind of leaks into you talking
about yourself.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
It's all connected.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
You know, a story about our dog is also really
a story about us, you know, unconditional love and helping
them meet their significant other. You know, we're such good
like detectives of when people are bullshitting. You know, we
watch someone and talk and it's like, I don't know
about themselves, but the way people light up and let
(18:15):
their hair down when they're talking about their dogs and laughing,
and it's just sort of like charming to watch.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
You've also found that kind of connecting over dogs can
really help us get over our political differences.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Yeah, I you know, I'm always like looking at the
dog first when I'm walking around. So I saw a
German shepherd and like, oh, beautiful dog. I asked them,
they take a photo of your dog?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
It sure?
Speaker 3 (18:38):
And he, you know, he turns around. He's like wearing
a big Trump shirt. And you know, in New York City,
walking around with that, you're sort of like asking for attention.
And so I'm like, oh, he's making a political statement,
and like that's not what the dogs is about, and
I like to keep it sort of a political But
then the second thought was just like, we're just talking
(18:59):
about his dog here. Why do I need to like
get political with this, Like I'm making it political. You know,
let's just be humans here. Forget the shirt and we
connected about the dog. The dog save the day. You know,
it was a reminder of how important is that we
don't be at odds with each other, and dogs help
us not be at odds with each other. I've heard
so many stories about people across party lines who when
(19:23):
they find out that someone who they might be opposed
to politically is a dog person, you know, they can
get along now. It's like we have common ground, Like
you're cool, that's healthy politics. Right, we can disagree and
still hear each other out, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
And so that's how dogs can connect us with one another.
But another thing we get from dogs also is just
the social support and the connection that they give us directly.
And this seems like something you've heard most on the
dog is you talk about if there is one message
you get from all the kind of dog lovers you've met,
it's just this idea of unconditional love.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Ask people point blank, like, what's your favorite thing about
having a dog, It's like almost ninety percent they'll say, like,
it's when I come home and the dog is just
so happy to see me. Because sometimes we feel stressed
during the day, it affects our mood. But when we
come home and there's someone who doesn't know what happened
to us that day, and it's just so unconditionally happy
(20:15):
to see us and isn't asking questions about the work
drama or how the presentation go. There's just something very
soothing and comforting about that. That consistent happiness we can
expect and we can plan on it that sort of
washes away the anxiety we may have.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
It's like one hundred percent of the time, Kida, you
know kind of belly rub like how are you? That
is such a mood enhancer.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
There's also lots of evidence that it really literally decreases
our stress and our level of pain. One of my
favorite studies had participants like put their hand in this
so called cold presser task, which is like you actually
put your hand in the super super cold water that
puts you in pretty terrible pain, and you either have
a dog present or not, and they find that you
literally experience less pain when you have a dog present.
(21:02):
So it seems like all the anxieties of work, all
that stuff, we come home and they're literally helping us
through it.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah, I'm not surprised by that. And they're extremely intuitive
about our emotional state. I'm pretty sure they can like
smell it. I just did a talk at Harvard and
they have this lab there where they did an empathy
test where I pretended to hit my finger with a
hammer and I faked it and started crying, you know,
like ahow, and the dog came running up and licked
me on the face. Dogs are extremely empathetic. They know
(21:30):
when things aren't going well, they know when you need love.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
They will give it to you whenever you need it,
and we need it more often these days, I think.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
And I think that's another thing we forget that dogs
can give us, That dogs can connect us better to ourselves.
They can kind of model how we should be treating ourselves.
And I know this is something you talk about a lot.
You've argued that dogs can make us a little bit
less self conscious, which is helpful and kind of maybe
less self critical too. What do you mean there?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Yeah, I think we see the way that dogs are
free with themselves, how they are totally candid. They express
their emotions, whether it's fear or happiness or confused or sadness,
without any hesitation about the way they're perceived. You know,
I don't know that dogs have a sense of humor,
but I think I think they do. You know, like
(22:16):
I feel like dogs would be like funny and just
sort of like willing to be silly. Like you see
the way dogs play with each other. And so when
we see that, I don't know whether it's mirroring or something,
or behavioral association, but we become more like that. We think, Okay,
maybe it's okay to like just be ourselves, to not
look in the mirror and question how it will be
(22:36):
perceived by others. One of the stories I read about
is my wife Sam and I went to a Halloween
party and everyone was masked and we were all freely
talking to one another and in our anonymity, like a
dog would running into a dog park. And later on
the night, this person we were talking to she took
off her mask, and my wife Sam was all of
(22:58):
a sudden started freaking out and she'd be like, you
know who that is, That's like one of my heroes,
like this famous person, And all of a sudden she was,
you know, self conscious and like, oh, I don't know,
like if I should talk to her. We'd already been
talking to her for thirty minutes about bagels, you know,
like what's the big deal. But dogs, they don't have
an ego, you know, they have an ability to just
be themselves, to run into the park and sniff butts
(23:20):
and not worry about how that other dog may think
of them. That initial sort of lack of fear around
their reputation and being self conscious is something that we
admire and we wish we could possess more. And that's
probably the biggest reason why I gravitated towards dogs, because
I was shy, and dogs aren't shy, And just by
(23:42):
being at the other end of the leash of a dog, you,
by proxy, you just become less shy, you know, more social.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
It's time for another break, but we'll be back soon
to discuss the surprising ways that dogs can help us
heal after trauma. The Happiness Lab will be back in
a moment, and his role is social media sensation. That
dog is Elias Wiss. Free Men had the privilege of
(24:10):
photographing hundreds of dogs each year, but Elias's fame has
also given him the chance to meet some very special
pops service dogs, dogs that are individually trained to help
people with health issues or disabilities. These encounters have had
a huge impact on Elias. In his book This Dog
Will Change Your Life, he describes one such meeting with
a woman named Sharon.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Sharon, she was an army nurse and as an army nurse,
you see people in their worst moments of their lives,
right you can only imagine, and so when you come back,
those memories don't go away. And so this woman had
a dog from America's Vet Dogs who basically helps her
(24:51):
with a PTSD and nightmare interruption and dog will turn
the lights on so that she doesn't have to enter
a dark room. So yeah, you know, I've worked with
America's Vet Dogs a number of times over the years
and scheduled this series, you know, for veterans. And so
I went to Sharon's house in New Jersey and everything
was just sort of like normal, Like she was just
talking to me like a regular person and telling me
(25:13):
what her dog did for her.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
And it was not very dramatic. You know.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Later in the day we ended up at Later in
the day, we ended up at the headquarters and I
was speaking with America's Bet Dog CEO and she said, oh,
I heard you met up with Sharon earlier. And said, yeah, yeah,
and you know, recounted it a little bit and she said,
you know that Sharon used to be nonverbal and she
(25:39):
would shake.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
And sorry, it gets to me like it's talking about.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
It, but like that, that's that's what her dog did
for her. So, through all the stuff that she's been
through and state that she was in previously, to have
a dog come in and just change who she is
as a person, it's hard to quantify that, you know
the power of a dog that to take someone who
(26:09):
is completely non functional, make them appear normal, Like, how
do you how do you quantify that?
Speaker 1 (26:15):
You've also seen this again and again with dogs who've
been working with veterans. I know you've talked about Nathan,
another retired vet from the Air Force. You know, how
did his dog help him?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Nathan, he worked, as he would say, in nukes in
the nuclear division. And the one thing you have to
be to work in that space is one hundred percent
good all the time.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Are you okay? Yes?
Speaker 3 (26:38):
So that's like being a robot basically, And Nathan wasn't
always okay. It's so intense, like you can't even have advil.
And so for his whole career that's the way he
had to be. And you know, he had all types
of like physical ailments because of a number of hours
he had to be at the controls. And so when
he retired, how do you like deprogram all that training
(26:59):
and live in a relationship with someone and be a
human again after you know, what if you're not okay?
And so he became like a shut in and like
was completely a social all had all types of fear
of things, and only he could articulate all those details.
But he knew he needed help, and as a veteran,
he reached out to this organization of America's Vet Dogs
(27:21):
and he got this dog.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Fast forward a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
He's now a public speaker and is like the most outgoing,
big personality, you know, he's.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Like a mohawk.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
He's a totally different person, or rather he is his
true self instead of a scared person who's affected by PTSD.
And so once again, the dog isn't doing all types
of magic tricks, and it's all in the subtlety and
in the nuances of living with a dog, and little
by little they chip away at these things that we
(27:54):
create for ourselves so that we can live a better life.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
So it seems like dogs have all these benefits even
in these extreme situations. But a lot of folks who
kind of see these benefits, or maybe you're thinking about
getting a dog, they don't actually take the plunge. And
one of the things I loved about your story was
it it surprisingly maybe it actually took you a while
to take the plunge too. I think this is one
of the dirty secrets of the early doggiest years, was
that you yourself did not have a dog.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Right, Yeah, well, I was on dog hiatus.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
You know, I sort of saw myself as a bit
of an artist, but I felt like a lot of
my motivation came out of this dog stalgia where I
missed having a dog.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
What would happen if I got a dog?
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Would I stop being the doggest Because I was driven
to meet other people's dogs and to travel around the
world and to try and meet as many dogs as possible.
And also obviously having a dog requires a lot of
responsibility and time. So I think there was just this
period in my life where I was just sort of
focused on building my career and exploring who I was
(28:56):
as a person. And I had all the dogs, is
what I would say when people had asked me that question.
But I was still missing something, right, Like, it's hard
to fully relate to other people and the relationship they
have with their dog if you don't have one yourself,
if you're not experiencing it yourself.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
So I grew up a bit, I matured.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
I mean it was during the pandemic that everything slowed
down and things came into context, into focus, and I
decided that I wanted to foster a dog, and then
I met Elsa. She came you know, from Texas and
on a rainy day, just like today, you know, she
came in into our house and I was like, oh
my god, oh crap, Like.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
She's amazing.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Maybe just describe her for it.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
She's a beautiful husky mix, all white, with a toasted
marshmallow top, two blue eyes, and a medium size. She's
like about fifty pounds, although in all honesty, she's like
fifty five pounds and needs to get back to fifty
pounds according to the vet. She spends too much time
at Grandma's house. And she's the best dog. You know,
(30:01):
every dog is the best dog, but she's also the
best dog. Extremely well behaved. She's non destructive and doesn't
bark unless she's at the dog park, doesn't eat street
treats off the ground.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, she's amazing.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
And you know, as the dog is, I was like,
what type of dog will I end up with? Like,
which is the dog for me? I've seen them all,
but Elsa is the right dog for me. You know,
she wasn't the dog I imagined sort of ending up with, Like,
but now I'm a husky guy. I love huskies or
husky mixes. They have a independent thinking mind. They're very smart.
(30:35):
They keep you on your toes, they do shed a lot.
Our vacuum gets a lot of use. You know, I've
heard people say like, once you get a dog that's
like very smart, then you're used to certain things, Like
they just have like an adeptness through life that is
sort of charming. And so I think I've gotten used
to that. Like she's really like her own independent person.
(30:56):
And you know, whenever we're having like chicken night or something,
she would go up to sam my wife and you know.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
Mommy all got the big piece of chicken. Yet that's
why I go to mo. Daddy had chicken too, but
Mommy all give me the big pieces. Daddy gives me
the small pieces. Not as good.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
And so even for you, it took a while to
maybe take the plunge. I know, what occupational hazard of
your job is that people ask you for advice all
the time about whether they should get a dog and
picking a dog. When you think about all the benefits
of having a dog, what advice would you give people
who are thinking about taking the plunge.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I think make sure you're ready.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
So many dogs that end up in shelters because people
aren't ready, whether it's because they are seeing some trend
on the internet around a certain breed, or a celebrity
has one and oh, I want that dog then, or
maybe the kids want a dog for the holidays. But
then the dog grows up and you haven't socialized or
trained it properly, and now it's sort of eating your apartment.
(31:54):
Like there's a whole bunch of things that you have
to be careful about and be responsible about. So I
think the first thing is, you know, researching what it
means to be a dog owner, what is required?
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Can you afford to have a dog?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
You know they're not as expensive as kids, but you
know you have to bring your dog to the vet.
Dog food can be expensive. And then if you check
all those boxes and you're truly sort of ready to
have a dog, and I think there's no like good
time to have a dog.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Now is a good time if you're ready.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
I love the idea of fostering a dog from a
rescue group because you get an idea of what that
dog will be like to live with and you can
try it out for a minute while doing an important service,
which is to help alleviate the shelter system. If you
have a dog for a couple of weeks and you say, oh,
like this is great. I love the feeling of this.
(32:42):
Follow your heart, you know. I think there's so many
ways to end up in a good situation with a dog,
as long as you're being responsible about it and you
do plenty of research. You know, if you do decide
that you want, you know, a puppy from a particular breed,
you should not be able to get that dog next weekend,
(33:02):
which is what a lot of people I think fall
prey too, is this sort of like oh, we want
like this gold noodle or something, and we can go
next week and when we're free. Like, that's a little
bit too impulsive in my book. You know, I've seen
the shelter systems how overcrowded they are. So I'm always
a proponent of if your heart isn't set on something
so specific, then oftentimes the best dog is already there
(33:24):
waiting for you. A lot of those dogs are mutts,
you know, they're one of a kind, interesting dogs. A
lot of them are are adults, so you know what
they're like already there, they're sort of temperament's already established.
You know what you're getting into And there's also this
sort of serendipitous cosmic thing that happens when you save
a dog from effectively they could be euthanized. Seriously, you
(33:47):
have a special relationship with that dog, and I think
that they know that you save them from that, that
you took them out of a place that was uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Dogs aren't meant to live in kennels. They're social beings.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
They're meant to live in the outside and get to
know their family and have a couch and predictability. So
if you put all those things together, that's sort of
the best way to go about it.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
In my opinion, dogs gives so many better I'm just
wondering what you think a world without dogs would look like.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
If you take dogs away, that would not be good.
Like hopefully that never happens. I think the world would
not be a better place. It would be more depressing.
We would go for a fewer walks, we would laugh
a lot less, we would spend less time vacuuming.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
That's one thing. I guess it would be a weird world.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Let's hope we never do have to live in a
world without dogs, because they are pretty awesome. But in
the unlikely event that you're not a dog person or
you're allergic to them. There's still a lot you can
take away from Elias and his story, because dogs are
a great reminder that the best way to cope is
often getting back to the happiness fundamentals. Whether without a dog,
you should get outside and get active, don't worry about
(34:57):
being goofy or vulnerable, find new ways to play and
get more present, and above all, make sure you excitedly
meet and greet the people around you, just like a
dog in a dog park would. While you work on that,
I'll be hard at work on the next episode in
our special season on creative coping strategies, in which we'll
focus on the surprising power of ritual and etiquette. Oh
(35:19):
and napkins, lots of napkins.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Does everybody not have a napkin collection? They should. I
can strongly advocate for having one.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
All that. Next time on the Happiness Lab with me,
Doctor Laurie Santos,
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