May 30, 2025 • 28 mins
Do you ever find it hard to say "no", especially to the people you care about most? In this episode of "But Are You Happy," Dr. Anastasia Hronis shares a practical, step-by-step guide to setting healthy boundaries without damaging your relationships and tells you exactly what to say. You will also learn:
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How to recognise the signs of a toxic relationship
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The psychology behind our instinct to say "yes"
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Why disappointing others feels so uncomfortable
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The underrated power of pausing before you commit
If you or someone you know needs support, contact Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636. Both services are available 24/7 for free, confidential mental health support.
Want to get in touch with us? DM @butareyouhappypod on Instagram or send us a voice memo. Our hosts are ready to hear your dilemmas—think of it as free therapy!
CREDITS:
Hosts: Ashani Dante & Dr Anastasia Hronis
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Senior Producer: Tahli Blackman
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
Our studio is styled with furniture from Fenton and Fenton.
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma May I acknowledges the traditional owners of the land
and waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Yeah, that sounds so fun. I can't come though, because
I have a think tomorrow where you have a thing tomorrow,
but I think, what are you doing? Well, I'm just
busy tomorrow, Like I just en believe no, Like we
can all hang out, Like we'll just pick you up
at a we can all hang out. And I don't
want to fucking hang out with you tomorrow. I don't
want to fucking hang out with you tomorrow. Well, why
don't you just see that I was busy? You just
(00:41):
keep asking fucking questions. It's cold boundaries. Stop making me
feel so stressed.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Or Mama Mia. I'm your host, Ashani Dante. Welcome to
But are you happy? Because doom scrolling is its self.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Reflection And I'm doctor Anastasia Hernas, a clinical psychologist passionate
about happiness and mental health. Today we are going to
tackle one of the most common challenges that so many
of my clients are facing. How to say no, especially
to the people we love.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Well, this is a big one that this is something
I see in myself and so many of my friends
to especially women. Are we going to learn how to
say no with our full body by the end of
this episode.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
This is actually one of my favorite things to teach people.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Let's get stuck in, okay, Anastasia. We hear this idea
of toxic relationship a lot, but how do we actually
know if we have an unhealthy dynamic with someone?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, so toxic isn't a clinical definition, rightther A toxic
gets thrown around a lot, for sure, But I like
to use the term sort of an unhealthy dynamic or
an unhealthy relationship. And this can look like so many
different things. Again, there isn't like a one size fits
all answer with this. It can present in so many
different ways. But to give you a couple of examples
(02:08):
as to what an unhealthy might look like, it might
look like a relationship where there's an imbalance of power,
so one person doesn't necessarily feel like their voice is heard,
like they have the capacity in the relationship to say no,
to speak their mind, to voice their opinion. There's some
sort of imbalance in the relationship when it comes to
(02:31):
power dynamics. It might be that a person feels like
they can't fully be themselves, their authentic self, like they
have to hide parts of their identity or keep parts
of themselves hidden from the other person.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
So it's this idea of not being.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Fully accepted for who we are by our partner or
by someone in a relationship. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean
that a person has to like all of us, because
being accepted is different to being liked. You know, I
might not like every part of someone, but I can
accept them for who they are. And I guess again,
coming back to this idea of I need to like
(03:11):
I can be myself and I can have a voice.
If that isn't there, then we're really looking at an
unhealthy dynamic in a relationship.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Essentially, what I'm hearing is at the bottom of it.
If the relationship doesn't have those key foundations of trust
and safety, a lot of things can happen, which I
know we'll dive into a little bit later.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Absolutely, and I love that you use the words trust
and safety because when we think about what a healthy
relationship looks like, or a healthy dynamic looks like on
the flip side, it absolutely is one where we feel
like we have that trust and that security in the
relationship with someone. And the reality is we all have
(03:49):
what we refer to in the psychology world as core
emotional needs.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
So we all have core physical.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Needs, right we all need water and food and shelter
and protection from the elements, etc. But we all also
have core emotional needs. So these are things like we
all have the need secure attachment with other people. We
need to feel safe and securely connected to other people
in our life. We all have the need for being
(04:20):
able to express ourselves emotionally and to have that heard
and validated by other people. And we all have the
need for autonomy, for competence, for independence, to have a
sense of self, to know who I am in the
world and feel like I can express that freely.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
And I really it's kind of extending on to expressing
that freely. I think it's really interesting because when we
think of unhealthy relationships and healthy relating, I feel like
communication is really important. And the reality is in a
healthy relationship you are going to come up against conflict
and disagreements and everything like that. But I think it's
(05:00):
around how do you move through that process?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Absolutely absolutely, and I think it's important at this point
as well to differentiate between things that are never okay
in a relationship versus dynamics that maybe don't suit us personally.
So we never want to be in a relationship where
we're consistently criticized, put down, called names by our partner
(05:25):
or by a friend, or by anyone we're in some
sort of friendship or relationship with. You know, there are
certainly some no goes that we don't want to accept.
But then there's also the other side where the way
I show up in the world might just be very
fundamentally different to how someone else shows up in the world,
and that creates a lot of friction and tension and conflict.
And it doesn't mean anyone's doing anything wrong. It just
(05:48):
means that the dynamic doesn't work as seamlessly as we
might like it to.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
So obviously, for our purposes today, let's drill down on
how to say no, specifically to people we are actually
in some sort of relationship with, you know, that can
be family, partners and friends.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I have a great example that comes to mind of
someone I worked with.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
We'll call her Rebecca.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And she found herself in a really challenging dynamic with
her mom, the kind of mother daughter relationship is one
that I and that I hear about a fair bit.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I'm not gonna lie in the therapy room.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Where there are certain expectations sometimes placed on a daughter
to show up in certain ways, whether that be how
she kind of presents herself in the world.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
So this person I worked with, Rebecca, had.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
A lot of expectations from mom as to how she
should look, what she should wear, how she should interact
with other people, but also how she should contribute as
an adult to the family, how she should help out,
how she should help take family members to doctor's appointments
and help them with the groceries and the shopping, and
you know, be available for all the family lunches and dinners.
So there was just a lot of expectations placed on her,
(06:57):
and she really struggled to figure out how to maintain
her own independence and identity and life whilst also keeping
that relationship with her mom. Because of the end of
the day, it's not like she wanted to cut mum off.
She wanted a happy, healthy relationship with her, but just
struggle to navigate that.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Okay, so there's a lot of Rebecca's tuning in today.
Why is it that we're so inclined to say yes.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
This is a great question because again it comes back
to biology and what we're hardwired. I know last week
we were talking about emotions and how those are sort
of biologically ingrained in us. This desire to say yes
or the desire to not say no is biologically ingrained
in us. And I'll explain why from an evolutionary perspective.
(07:50):
If we think back to the caveman days, it was
really important for us to be part of the pack
for the survival of ourselves and survival of the species.
We needed to be part of the broader group. And
if we weren't, if we were isolated, we were more
vulnerable to threats, would be more likely to be eaten
by a tiger or a lion, or we'd be more
(08:10):
vulnerable in life, and it would be harder to survive.
So we have this ingrained sense of wanting to do
what we need to do to stay connected with others. Nowadays,
fast forward, how many hundreds and thousands of years, we
can survive pretty easily without that desire and ingrained need
(08:31):
to be so connected to other people. Right on a
physical level, we can survive, but because it is so
primal that part of us that wants to stay connected.
We find it quite hard to say no, and we
find that we are more inclined to say yes sometimes
when we actually do mean no.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
It's interesting when you say that, because I'm thinking about
how there's so many times where I actually want to
say no, but I say yes. But then in my body,
I'm actually feeling all these different sensations, Like, I know
you're talking about the biology of things. Is what's going
on in the body, Like is there actual physical symptoms.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Exactly in what you describe where we yes, but we
actually mean no. We feel that tension, right, And again
I come back to emotions are sources of.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Data and information.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
If we're feeling that tension in the gut, in our
body somewhere, I would say to listeners, tune into that
feeling because it's telling you something. It's giving you some
sort of message that there's this conflict internally happening within you.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
So what is the impact of when we say yes
too much?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
It often means that we end up over committing. So
we might be saying yes to too many things and
then we're over committed.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
But the downside of that is that maybe we.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Don't end up having time for the things that actually
we really want to do, the things that align with
our values and that are important to us in our life.
So for everything we say yes to, we essentially sacrifice
something else. We only have so much time in the
day and so much kind of energy that we have
to work with through the week. So by saying yes
(10:08):
to certain things, we're also saying no to others. And
the things we say no to might actually be quite
important to us.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
And I think it's really great that you're touching on
values again, because I know we spoke about that last
week and the importance of values and how it's needed
in decision making, but also how it's really relevant in
relationships as well, and how we communicate absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And the other downside of saying yes too often to
things that maybe we don't really want to or don't
feel inclined to, is that over time, we can inadvertently
send ourselves a message that our needs are not important,
that my needs are not valuable or as.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Important as others.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
And it's actually a way in which I somehow lose
respect for myself if I'm not able to communicate to
someone else the no or communicate to someone else what's
important to me and what I need time for, I'm
actually disrespecting myself in the process.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
It also kind of feels like self betrayal too.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
Hmmm.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yes, the idea of sol betrayal is a really big
one and I think a really important one for us
to unpack, because it really is this notion that we
don't give ourselves the time and the respect to fully
explore what's important to us and communicate that to others, right,
because there's something to be said for we need to
(11:29):
show and teach others how we want to be treated.
So if we show up in a relationship where we're
constantly saying yes to everything, unless we actually tell that
person no, sometimes they're not going to know that we're
saying yes but meaning no. Right, So they're just going
to continue treating us and acting in the way that
(11:50):
they are in the relationship because they don't know any different.
There really is an onus on us to be able
to communicate with others how we want to be treated,
how we want to fit in terms of a dynamic
in a relationship, and what we want from others.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
And it kind of feels like with like the flip
side of self betray is taking like it's self responsibility,
Like it is our responsibility at the end of the
day to be able to communicate that. And I'm interested too,
because I know Rebecca. You know that's a mother daughter dynamic.
Like have you seen other kinds of relationships where these
kind of behaviors are playing out.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Absolutely, so I use the mother daughter dynamic as a
as a common one. But we see it play out
amongst friends. You know, we might have a friend who's
constantly asking something from us. Maybe it feels a bit
like a one way friendship where the one who's constantly
trying to reach out and organize things with them, or
they're constantly asking us for things. We see this in friendships,
we see it in sibling dynamics, we see it in
(12:49):
romantic relationships. It can really play out in any kind
of relationship where there's some degree of intimacy. And when
I say intimacy, I mean emotional intimacy. Self sacrificing is
also a really important part of this conversation because we
might find ourselves in situations where we genuinely feel like
other people's needs more important than ours. This is what
(13:12):
self sacrificing comes down to this idea that I need
to give and give to others in order to feel
like I'm a good person. And if I don't do that,
then I feel really bad and guilty about who I
am in relationships.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Oh gosh, I can definitely speak to self sacrificing and
I can just get out my scroll of all the
times I've done it, and I definitely know that this
is so common among so many women, and I know
for me. I think for me, I'm naturally someone that
does want to put my needs in the backseat and
be of service to the people that I love most.
And I remember recently I was going through a really
(13:46):
hard time emotionally and I just had to try and
take care of myself. But I remember getting a miscall
from one of my good friends who I know is
really struggling as well. And it was this moment because
I had a friend of mine who was really honest
with me recently. She said, Shany, you need to actually
put yourself first and not keep sacrificing yourself, and that
(14:07):
was hard to hear, but also I really trust her wisdom.
So I remember in that moment when I saw that
miscall from a friend. I just sent her a message
and I just said, hey, look I can't chat right now.
I'm really in it. Maybe just send me a voice
message for now and I'll give you a call back later.
And that was really hard, because it is it is
a skill, you know, especially when you've been so programmed
(14:29):
to go the other way. It takes time.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
But I want to pick up on something you said.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, because you made this comment about putting yourself first, right,
and we hear this all the time. We've got to
put ourselves first, you know. Don't just put other people's
needs first, put yourself first. And I almost want to
reframe that. And I think your example is a great one,
because did you put yourself first or did you put
yourself as equal to the other person? Like from what
I hear you're describing, you respected yourself and what you needed,
(14:57):
and you respected what the other person was wanting from you,
what your friend was wanting, which was to have some
degree of communication and connection. So I don't know that
you like necessarily put yourself first, And I feel like
people can rebel against that. Its a bit of a
selfish thing to do, but we can certainly put ourselves
as equal.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Yeah, I actually never heard it like that before. Now
that you've said it, I'm like, oh, that's going to
stick with me because it is a bit of a
reframe there. And also it's a bit like when you're
on the aeroplane. It talks about you can put your
oxygen mask on first, but hear it all the time,
put your own oxygen mask before you put someone else's.
But also what you're communicating is, hey, I need to
have this space for me so then I can be
(15:35):
better and show up in the world and be a
better friend to you. After the shortbreak, doc do Anastasia
is going to teach you exactly how to say no
to loved ones in a healthy way. Stay with us, Adasasia,
How did you teach Rebecca how to reset that dynamic
(15:57):
with her mum and how do we learn how to
do this with the relationships in our life without burning
any bridges.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
The first thing I taught Rebecca, and the first thing
I would recommend to all our listeners who want to
set some boundaries.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Is to learn how to not give an.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Answer in the moment. So when someone makes a request
from us, it's a really important skill for us to
be able to kind of say I need to get
back to you or I can't give you an answer
right now. And in the case of Rebecca, she often
felt a lot of pressure and obligations from her mom,
so she really did want to maintain that relationship. It
(16:32):
was really important for her to have a close relationship
with her mom, so she felt that pressure in the
moment to just sort of say yes, okay, I'll be
at that event, I'll be at the family lunch, I'll
take you to the shops on the weekend. You know, yes,
I'll do all these things. So the first thing we
actually practiced was how to say, I'll have to check.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
And get back to you, okay, I need you to
give us a script. How do we exactly say no.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yes okay.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
So first up, when we get the request, we want
to try and say I'll have to get back to
you right And so this might sound something like, firstly,
nurturing the relationship. Always nurture the relationship if it's an
important one to you, let the person know that. So
if Rebecca's mom is asking her to have lunch on
the weekend with you know, mum and the extended family,
(17:22):
and Rebecca's really not quite sure if she.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Wants to do that.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
When Mom calls and asks, Rebecca could say something like, look, Mom,
this sounds really lovely. I love spending time with the family.
I'm just not sure if right now I'm going to
be able to commit to that for this weekend. I'm
going to need to just check a few things and
get back to you.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
But thanks for asking, and I'll let you know.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Right So, I want to step away from this idea
of us being like it's a no, like it's a
hard no to you know, no is a complete sentence. Yes,
no is a complete sentence, but it can come across
more beneficial to the relationship if we can sort of
pad that with nurturing the relationship. So first delay giving
a response, then I would recommend that, you know, at
(18:04):
some point Rebecca gives Mam a call back or texts
her back in some way, again noure the relationship. Hey Mom,
I know you asked me to join you guys for
lunch on the weekend, and it sounds like you're going
to have a really lovely time. I would have liked
to be there, but unfortunately I'm just not going to
be able to make it this weekend. I really appreciate
you reaching out and you know, offering for me to come,
(18:28):
but it's just not.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Going to work with my schedule. I'm really sorry.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
So it's really interesting because these are really great. But
I'm also thinking about even in the first steps, if
you get backlash straight away and the like I mean
with Rebecca's mom, I'm just saying hypothetically whims of Rebecca's
mom felt really offended. She's like, how what do you
mean you need to go away? Like, because she's noticing
a difference in the dynamic, right, So it can bring
(18:53):
up a lot for other people, like how do you
handle that?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I talk about this notion or technique of being a
bit of a broken record, right, because these are the
instances where we end up saying yes when we actually
meant no, when we feel the pressure, when we feel
like someone's guilt us to say yes to something when
we really don't want to. So I talk about this
idea of being a broken record, and we can do
this really nicely, but it's literally just repeating ourselves again
(19:21):
and again. So it might be something like I hear
your mom, I know you really wanted me to come. Unfortunately,
I'm just not going to be able to make it.
I get it, Mom, I know you would have really
liked me there. Unfortunately it's just not going to happen
this weekend. Yeah, Mom, I know, but unfortunately I'm just
not going to be able.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
To make it.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
So really just sticking to your guns and very kindly
just repeating the same thing over and over.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
I really love that because the way that you're saying
it is kind of what you're saying around nurturing the relationship,
and you're validating Rebecca's mum's experience where she might feel hurt.
So it's like, how do you do both? Which I
really love? So tell us what the next step is?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yes, okay, So the final step is the negotiation, right,
and this doesn't have to be the final step, right, No,
I can't come to lunch.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Might be the final step.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
But if the relationship is important to us, we want
to nurture it and we don't want to burn those bridges.
It might be for Rebecca or for the person in
Rebecca's shoes to think about what an alternative might be
that actually suits her needs. So maybe Rebecca comes up
with another option where she says, you know, look, unfortunately
(20:27):
I'm not going to make family lunch this weekend, but
I'd really love to see you one day through the
week for dinner. Is there a night that you're free,
I'll cook some lasagna and bring it over, you know,
So come up with some alternatives to be able to
negotiate if our goal is nurturing that relationship.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
So do you think a lot of this is influenced
by society or culture.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Absolutely, we definitely see differences depending on whether people have
grown up in a family dynamic or a culture that's
more sort of individualistic versus collectivists. So what we see
is that in those more individualistic societies and cultures, there
is more of a focus on being able to say
(21:10):
no and putting the boundaries in place, and less of
a focus on repair in relationships. What we see that
collectivist societies and cultures do really well is that they
focus on maintaining and repairing dynamics. The reality is that
we are always going to be faced in our life
with situations where we have to say no to people,
(21:31):
where ruptures occur in a relationship. It's normal and it's natural,
and part of what we need to learn is how
to be able to do that and become okay with it.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
So a lot of this is getting comfortable with disappointing
other people.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Absolutely, we're all unique people with different ways of thinking
and being in the world, and that means that we're
going to face conflict in life and we're going to
disappoint people sometimes.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
That's just a part of it. And if we're not
used to saying no or.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Asserting our needs with other people, it's probably going to
feel pretty uncomfortable to start with. It's a new, different
experience for us. So we might actually find ourselves feeling
a little bit anxious to do it. And if that's
the case, then I advise listeners go back to episode
one and have a listen to how to deal with
anxiety and worry if it comes.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
About guilt tripping, So is that a real thing?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Absolutely, we can definitely have the experience of other people
making us feel guilty. And what I want to highlight
here is there is a difference between us feeling guilt
and other people imposing guilt on us.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Right, I'm going to come back.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
You'll probably hear me say this time and time again
through our episodes that emotions serve a function, they're important.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
So if I feel guilt.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
If I naturally feel guilt doesn't feel pleasant, but it's
an important emotion because it tells me that I've done
something that goes against my moral code and my moral compass.
So guilt gives us important information that we've done something
that we don't feel good about, so that we can
not do it again in the future and maybe try.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
And make some sort of repair and amend.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
That's very different to us feeling guilty because someone else
has said we should or made it out as if
we should be ashamed of ourselves for the decision that
we've made. So it's really important in these situations for
people to stop and reflect on is this guilt my
(23:28):
own or is it guilt that someone else is putting
on me?
Speaker 1 (23:39):
BRB Barb Bierb, I'm having a serious Christiss BRB having
a crisis.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
Guys, it's time for BRB having a crisis. This is
your opportunity, listeners to get Anastatia's advice and guidance on
your dilemma, challenge or big live question. Today we're hearing
from Ruby.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
My partner's a slow riser and loves easing into the weekend.
I'm the opposite up early ready to get things done,
and I get restless.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
If the day feels like it's slipping by. He always says, why.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Do you have to be in such a rush, But
it's not about rushing, it's just how I'm wired. On
top of that, he watches every football game all weekend.
I'm not into it, and sometimes it feels like I'm
sidelined trying to fit in my own plans. I want
to support his interests, but I also want space for
my own. It's tough finding a balance between spending time
together but also feeling fulfilled in myself on the weekends.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Oh Ruby, this is a tough one. But I think
you're not alone because I've heard a lot of people
talk about this idea of individual identity versus the relationship identity,
And how do I keep space for my own sense
of self and who I am in the world and
in the relationship while also building, developing, and nurturing the
(24:57):
relationship which forms an identity of its own. What I
would encourage you to do is maybe, as you can predict,
this involves having a conversation with your partner, but invite
him into the solution right when you talk to him,
share what your thoughts, feelings, and concerns are and try
and do so using eye statements.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I feel this. I think that.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
This tends to result in more open communication and the
other person doesn't feel as defensive if we start statements
with I. But what I also encourage you to do
is invite him into the solution right, open up the
challenge that you're facing with him, and invite him to
(25:42):
help you find a solution. So this might be something
like saying, I really value our relationship and I want
us to both feel.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Good in it.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
How do you suggest we go about navigating this? So
you're bringing him in so it can be a collaborative approach, because,
as you've highlighted, that balance between individual identity and the
relationship can be a challenging one to get right.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
And there's not one clear answer that's going to work
every week.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
It's probably going to be an ongoing conversation with an
ongoing solution.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Saying no is literally such a skill. Sounds so simple,
but really it's not. And Asasia, can you give us
a recap of what we learned today?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Absolutely, First up, it's okay to say no. Second, we
can say no to other people while still maintaining kindness
and respect for the relationship. Third, if saying no feels
hard in the moment, try to opt for a not
right now or I have to get back to you. Lastly,
(26:49):
by saying no, we will have times where others are
disappointed or they feel let down. This is normal and
natural and a part of life. If you value the relationship,
think about what else you can do to contribute to
the relationship that still nurtures it while maintaining your boundary.
Next week, we're tackling a biggie. It's when I hear
(27:10):
about from so many people in my life, not just
my work. We're going to be discussing the quickest and
easiest way to get out of a life rust and
reset when we feel like everything sucks.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
If you have any burning questions, there's a few ways
to get in touch with us links in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't
a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas we present
here should always take into account your personal history. The
executive producer of But Are You Happy? Is Niama Brown.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
Tarlie Blackman is our senior producer.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
I'm a Shani Dante, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Doctor Anastaga Hernus. The names and stories of clients discussed
have been changed for the purpose of maintaining anonymity.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
If this conversation.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Brought up any difficult feelings for you, we have links
for more resources in the show notes around the topics
we discussed today. You can also reach out to organizations
beyond Blue All Lifeline if you're wanting more immediate support.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Thanks for listening.
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma May I acknowledges the traditional owners of the land
and waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Yeah, that sounds so fun. I can't come though, because
I have a think tomorrow where you have a thing tomorrow,
but I think, what are you doing? Well, I'm just
busy tomorrow, Like I just en believe no, Like we
can all hang out, Like we'll just pick you up
at a we can all hang out. And I don't
want to fucking hang out with you tomorrow. I don't
want to fucking hang out with you tomorrow. Well, why
don't you just see that I was busy? You just
(00:41):
keep asking fucking questions. It's cold boundaries. Stop making me
feel so stressed.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Or Mama Mia. I'm your host, Ashani Dante. Welcome to
But are you happy? Because doom scrolling is its self.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Reflection And I'm doctor Anastasia Hernas, a clinical psychologist passionate
about happiness and mental health. Today we are going to
tackle one of the most common challenges that so many
of my clients are facing. How to say no, especially
to the people we love.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Well, this is a big one that this is something
I see in myself and so many of my friends
to especially women. Are we going to learn how to
say no with our full body by the end of
this episode.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
This is actually one of my favorite things to teach people.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Let's get stuck in, okay, Anastasia. We hear this idea
of toxic relationship a lot, but how do we actually
know if we have an unhealthy dynamic with someone?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, so toxic isn't a clinical definition, rightther A toxic
gets thrown around a lot, for sure, But I like
to use the term sort of an unhealthy dynamic or
an unhealthy relationship. And this can look like so many
different things. Again, there isn't like a one size fits
all answer with this. It can present in so many
different ways. But to give you a couple of examples
(02:08):
as to what an unhealthy might look like, it might
look like a relationship where there's an imbalance of power,
so one person doesn't necessarily feel like their voice is heard,
like they have the capacity in the relationship to say no,
to speak their mind, to voice their opinion. There's some
sort of imbalance in the relationship when it comes to
(02:31):
power dynamics. It might be that a person feels like
they can't fully be themselves, their authentic self, like they
have to hide parts of their identity or keep parts
of themselves hidden from the other person.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
So it's this idea of not being.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Fully accepted for who we are by our partner or
by someone in a relationship. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean
that a person has to like all of us, because
being accepted is different to being liked. You know, I
might not like every part of someone, but I can
accept them for who they are. And I guess again,
coming back to this idea of I need to like
(03:11):
I can be myself and I can have a voice.
If that isn't there, then we're really looking at an
unhealthy dynamic in a relationship.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Essentially, what I'm hearing is at the bottom of it.
If the relationship doesn't have those key foundations of trust
and safety, a lot of things can happen, which I
know we'll dive into a little bit later.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Absolutely, and I love that you use the words trust
and safety because when we think about what a healthy
relationship looks like, or a healthy dynamic looks like on
the flip side, it absolutely is one where we feel
like we have that trust and that security in the
relationship with someone. And the reality is we all have
(03:49):
what we refer to in the psychology world as core
emotional needs.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
So we all have core physical.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Needs, right we all need water and food and shelter
and protection from the elements, etc. But we all also
have core emotional needs. So these are things like we
all have the need secure attachment with other people. We
need to feel safe and securely connected to other people
in our life. We all have the need for being
(04:20):
able to express ourselves emotionally and to have that heard
and validated by other people. And we all have the
need for autonomy, for competence, for independence, to have a
sense of self, to know who I am in the
world and feel like I can express that freely.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
And I really it's kind of extending on to expressing
that freely. I think it's really interesting because when we
think of unhealthy relationships and healthy relating, I feel like
communication is really important. And the reality is in a
healthy relationship you are going to come up against conflict
and disagreements and everything like that. But I think it's
(05:00):
around how do you move through that process?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Absolutely absolutely, and I think it's important at this point
as well to differentiate between things that are never okay
in a relationship versus dynamics that maybe don't suit us personally.
So we never want to be in a relationship where
we're consistently criticized, put down, called names by our partner
(05:25):
or by a friend, or by anyone we're in some
sort of friendship or relationship with. You know, there are
certainly some no goes that we don't want to accept.
But then there's also the other side where the way
I show up in the world might just be very
fundamentally different to how someone else shows up in the world,
and that creates a lot of friction and tension and conflict.
And it doesn't mean anyone's doing anything wrong. It just
(05:48):
means that the dynamic doesn't work as seamlessly as we
might like it to.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
So obviously, for our purposes today, let's drill down on
how to say no, specifically to people we are actually
in some sort of relationship with, you know, that can
be family, partners and friends.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I have a great example that comes to mind of
someone I worked with.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
We'll call her Rebecca.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And she found herself in a really challenging dynamic with
her mom, the kind of mother daughter relationship is one
that I and that I hear about a fair bit.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I'm not gonna lie in the therapy room.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Where there are certain expectations sometimes placed on a daughter
to show up in certain ways, whether that be how
she kind of presents herself in the world.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
So this person I worked with, Rebecca, had.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
A lot of expectations from mom as to how she
should look, what she should wear, how she should interact
with other people, but also how she should contribute as
an adult to the family, how she should help out,
how she should help take family members to doctor's appointments
and help them with the groceries and the shopping, and
you know, be available for all the family lunches and dinners.
So there was just a lot of expectations placed on her,
(06:57):
and she really struggled to figure out how to maintain
her own independence and identity and life whilst also keeping
that relationship with her mom. Because of the end of
the day, it's not like she wanted to cut mum off.
She wanted a happy, healthy relationship with her, but just
struggle to navigate that.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Okay, so there's a lot of Rebecca's tuning in today.
Why is it that we're so inclined to say yes.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
This is a great question because again it comes back
to biology and what we're hardwired. I know last week
we were talking about emotions and how those are sort
of biologically ingrained in us. This desire to say yes
or the desire to not say no is biologically ingrained
in us. And I'll explain why from an evolutionary perspective.
(07:50):
If we think back to the caveman days, it was
really important for us to be part of the pack
for the survival of ourselves and survival of the species.
We needed to be part of the broader group. And
if we weren't, if we were isolated, we were more
vulnerable to threats, would be more likely to be eaten
by a tiger or a lion, or we'd be more
(08:10):
vulnerable in life, and it would be harder to survive.
So we have this ingrained sense of wanting to do
what we need to do to stay connected with others. Nowadays,
fast forward, how many hundreds and thousands of years, we
can survive pretty easily without that desire and ingrained need
(08:31):
to be so connected to other people. Right on a
physical level, we can survive, but because it is so
primal that part of us that wants to stay connected.
We find it quite hard to say no, and we
find that we are more inclined to say yes sometimes
when we actually do mean no.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
It's interesting when you say that, because I'm thinking about
how there's so many times where I actually want to
say no, but I say yes. But then in my body,
I'm actually feeling all these different sensations, Like, I know
you're talking about the biology of things. Is what's going
on in the body, Like is there actual physical symptoms.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Exactly in what you describe where we yes, but we
actually mean no. We feel that tension, right, And again
I come back to emotions are sources of.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Data and information.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
If we're feeling that tension in the gut, in our
body somewhere, I would say to listeners, tune into that
feeling because it's telling you something. It's giving you some
sort of message that there's this conflict internally happening within you.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
So what is the impact of when we say yes
too much?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
It often means that we end up over committing. So
we might be saying yes to too many things and
then we're over committed.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
But the downside of that is that maybe we.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Don't end up having time for the things that actually
we really want to do, the things that align with
our values and that are important to us in our life.
So for everything we say yes to, we essentially sacrifice
something else. We only have so much time in the
day and so much kind of energy that we have
to work with through the week. So by saying yes
(10:08):
to certain things, we're also saying no to others. And
the things we say no to might actually be quite
important to us.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
And I think it's really great that you're touching on
values again, because I know we spoke about that last
week and the importance of values and how it's needed
in decision making, but also how it's really relevant in
relationships as well, and how we communicate absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And the other downside of saying yes too often to
things that maybe we don't really want to or don't
feel inclined to, is that over time, we can inadvertently
send ourselves a message that our needs are not important,
that my needs are not valuable or as.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Important as others.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
And it's actually a way in which I somehow lose
respect for myself if I'm not able to communicate to
someone else the no or communicate to someone else what's
important to me and what I need time for, I'm
actually disrespecting myself in the process.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
It also kind of feels like self betrayal too.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
Hmmm.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yes, the idea of sol betrayal is a really big
one and I think a really important one for us
to unpack, because it really is this notion that we
don't give ourselves the time and the respect to fully
explore what's important to us and communicate that to others, right,
because there's something to be said for we need to
(11:29):
show and teach others how we want to be treated.
So if we show up in a relationship where we're
constantly saying yes to everything, unless we actually tell that
person no, sometimes they're not going to know that we're
saying yes but meaning no. Right, So they're just going
to continue treating us and acting in the way that
(11:50):
they are in the relationship because they don't know any different.
There really is an onus on us to be able
to communicate with others how we want to be treated,
how we want to fit in terms of a dynamic
in a relationship, and what we want from others.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
And it kind of feels like with like the flip
side of self betray is taking like it's self responsibility,
Like it is our responsibility at the end of the
day to be able to communicate that. And I'm interested too,
because I know Rebecca. You know that's a mother daughter dynamic.
Like have you seen other kinds of relationships where these
kind of behaviors are playing out.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Absolutely, so I use the mother daughter dynamic as a
as a common one. But we see it play out
amongst friends. You know, we might have a friend who's
constantly asking something from us. Maybe it feels a bit
like a one way friendship where the one who's constantly
trying to reach out and organize things with them, or
they're constantly asking us for things. We see this in friendships,
we see it in sibling dynamics, we see it in
(12:49):
romantic relationships. It can really play out in any kind
of relationship where there's some degree of intimacy. And when
I say intimacy, I mean emotional intimacy. Self sacrificing is
also a really important part of this conversation because we
might find ourselves in situations where we genuinely feel like
other people's needs more important than ours. This is what
(13:12):
self sacrificing comes down to this idea that I need
to give and give to others in order to feel
like I'm a good person. And if I don't do that,
then I feel really bad and guilty about who I
am in relationships.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Oh gosh, I can definitely speak to self sacrificing and
I can just get out my scroll of all the
times I've done it, and I definitely know that this
is so common among so many women, and I know
for me. I think for me, I'm naturally someone that
does want to put my needs in the backseat and
be of service to the people that I love most.
And I remember recently I was going through a really
(13:46):
hard time emotionally and I just had to try and
take care of myself. But I remember getting a miscall
from one of my good friends who I know is
really struggling as well. And it was this moment because
I had a friend of mine who was really honest
with me recently. She said, Shany, you need to actually
put yourself first and not keep sacrificing yourself, and that
(14:07):
was hard to hear, but also I really trust her wisdom.
So I remember in that moment when I saw that
miscall from a friend. I just sent her a message
and I just said, hey, look I can't chat right now.
I'm really in it. Maybe just send me a voice
message for now and I'll give you a call back later.
And that was really hard, because it is it is
a skill, you know, especially when you've been so programmed
(14:29):
to go the other way. It takes time.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
But I want to pick up on something you said.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, because you made this comment about putting yourself first, right,
and we hear this all the time. We've got to
put ourselves first, you know. Don't just put other people's
needs first, put yourself first. And I almost want to
reframe that. And I think your example is a great one,
because did you put yourself first or did you put
yourself as equal to the other person? Like from what
I hear you're describing, you respected yourself and what you needed,
(14:57):
and you respected what the other person was wanting from you,
what your friend was wanting, which was to have some
degree of communication and connection. So I don't know that
you like necessarily put yourself first, And I feel like
people can rebel against that. Its a bit of a
selfish thing to do, but we can certainly put ourselves
as equal.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Yeah, I actually never heard it like that before. Now
that you've said it, I'm like, oh, that's going to
stick with me because it is a bit of a
reframe there. And also it's a bit like when you're
on the aeroplane. It talks about you can put your
oxygen mask on first, but hear it all the time,
put your own oxygen mask before you put someone else's.
But also what you're communicating is, hey, I need to
have this space for me so then I can be
(15:35):
better and show up in the world and be a
better friend to you. After the shortbreak, doc do Anastasia
is going to teach you exactly how to say no
to loved ones in a healthy way. Stay with us, Adasasia,
How did you teach Rebecca how to reset that dynamic
(15:57):
with her mum and how do we learn how to
do this with the relationships in our life without burning
any bridges.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
The first thing I taught Rebecca, and the first thing
I would recommend to all our listeners who want to
set some boundaries.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Is to learn how to not give an.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Answer in the moment. So when someone makes a request
from us, it's a really important skill for us to
be able to kind of say I need to get
back to you or I can't give you an answer
right now. And in the case of Rebecca, she often
felt a lot of pressure and obligations from her mom,
so she really did want to maintain that relationship. It
(16:32):
was really important for her to have a close relationship
with her mom, so she felt that pressure in the
moment to just sort of say yes, okay, I'll be
at that event, I'll be at the family lunch, I'll
take you to the shops on the weekend. You know, yes,
I'll do all these things. So the first thing we
actually practiced was how to say, I'll have to check.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
And get back to you, okay, I need you to
give us a script. How do we exactly say no.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yes okay.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
So first up, when we get the request, we want
to try and say I'll have to get back to
you right And so this might sound something like, firstly,
nurturing the relationship. Always nurture the relationship if it's an
important one to you, let the person know that. So
if Rebecca's mom is asking her to have lunch on
the weekend with you know, mum and the extended family,
(17:22):
and Rebecca's really not quite sure if she.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Wants to do that.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
When Mom calls and asks, Rebecca could say something like, look, Mom,
this sounds really lovely. I love spending time with the family.
I'm just not sure if right now I'm going to
be able to commit to that for this weekend. I'm
going to need to just check a few things and
get back to you.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
But thanks for asking, and I'll let you know.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Right So, I want to step away from this idea
of us being like it's a no, like it's a
hard no to you know, no is a complete sentence. Yes,
no is a complete sentence, but it can come across
more beneficial to the relationship if we can sort of
pad that with nurturing the relationship. So first delay giving
a response, then I would recommend that, you know, at
(18:04):
some point Rebecca gives Mam a call back or texts
her back in some way, again noure the relationship. Hey Mom,
I know you asked me to join you guys for
lunch on the weekend, and it sounds like you're going
to have a really lovely time. I would have liked
to be there, but unfortunately I'm just not going to
be able to make it this weekend. I really appreciate
you reaching out and you know, offering for me to come,
(18:28):
but it's just not.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Going to work with my schedule. I'm really sorry.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
So it's really interesting because these are really great. But
I'm also thinking about even in the first steps, if
you get backlash straight away and the like I mean
with Rebecca's mom, I'm just saying hypothetically whims of Rebecca's
mom felt really offended. She's like, how what do you
mean you need to go away? Like, because she's noticing
a difference in the dynamic, right, So it can bring
(18:53):
up a lot for other people, like how do you
handle that?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I talk about this notion or technique of being a
bit of a broken record, right, because these are the
instances where we end up saying yes when we actually
meant no, when we feel the pressure, when we feel
like someone's guilt us to say yes to something when
we really don't want to. So I talk about this
idea of being a broken record, and we can do
this really nicely, but it's literally just repeating ourselves again
(19:21):
and again. So it might be something like I hear
your mom, I know you really wanted me to come. Unfortunately,
I'm just not going to be able to make it.
I get it, Mom, I know you would have really
liked me there. Unfortunately it's just not going to happen
this weekend. Yeah, Mom, I know, but unfortunately I'm just
not going to be able.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
To make it.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
So really just sticking to your guns and very kindly
just repeating the same thing over and over.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
I really love that because the way that you're saying
it is kind of what you're saying around nurturing the relationship,
and you're validating Rebecca's mum's experience where she might feel hurt.
So it's like, how do you do both? Which I
really love? So tell us what the next step is?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yes, okay, So the final step is the negotiation, right,
and this doesn't have to be the final step, right, No,
I can't come to lunch.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Might be the final step.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
But if the relationship is important to us, we want
to nurture it and we don't want to burn those bridges.
It might be for Rebecca or for the person in
Rebecca's shoes to think about what an alternative might be
that actually suits her needs. So maybe Rebecca comes up
with another option where she says, you know, look, unfortunately
(20:27):
I'm not going to make family lunch this weekend, but
I'd really love to see you one day through the
week for dinner. Is there a night that you're free,
I'll cook some lasagna and bring it over, you know,
So come up with some alternatives to be able to
negotiate if our goal is nurturing that relationship.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
So do you think a lot of this is influenced
by society or culture.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Absolutely, we definitely see differences depending on whether people have
grown up in a family dynamic or a culture that's
more sort of individualistic versus collectivists. So what we see
is that in those more individualistic societies and cultures, there
is more of a focus on being able to say
(21:10):
no and putting the boundaries in place, and less of
a focus on repair in relationships. What we see that
collectivist societies and cultures do really well is that they
focus on maintaining and repairing dynamics. The reality is that
we are always going to be faced in our life
with situations where we have to say no to people,
(21:31):
where ruptures occur in a relationship. It's normal and it's natural,
and part of what we need to learn is how
to be able to do that and become okay with it.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
So a lot of this is getting comfortable with disappointing
other people.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Absolutely, we're all unique people with different ways of thinking
and being in the world, and that means that we're
going to face conflict in life and we're going to
disappoint people sometimes.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
That's just a part of it. And if we're not
used to saying no or.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Asserting our needs with other people, it's probably going to
feel pretty uncomfortable to start with. It's a new, different
experience for us. So we might actually find ourselves feeling
a little bit anxious to do it. And if that's
the case, then I advise listeners go back to episode
one and have a listen to how to deal with
anxiety and worry if it comes.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
About guilt tripping, So is that a real thing?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Absolutely, we can definitely have the experience of other people
making us feel guilty. And what I want to highlight
here is there is a difference between us feeling guilt
and other people imposing guilt on us.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Right, I'm going to come back.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
You'll probably hear me say this time and time again
through our episodes that emotions serve a function, they're important.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
So if I feel guilt.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
If I naturally feel guilt doesn't feel pleasant, but it's
an important emotion because it tells me that I've done
something that goes against my moral code and my moral compass.
So guilt gives us important information that we've done something
that we don't feel good about, so that we can
not do it again in the future and maybe try.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
And make some sort of repair and amend.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
That's very different to us feeling guilty because someone else
has said we should or made it out as if
we should be ashamed of ourselves for the decision that
we've made. So it's really important in these situations for
people to stop and reflect on is this guilt my
(23:28):
own or is it guilt that someone else is putting
on me?
Speaker 1 (23:39):
BRB Barb Bierb, I'm having a serious Christiss BRB having
a crisis.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
Guys, it's time for BRB having a crisis. This is
your opportunity, listeners to get Anastatia's advice and guidance on
your dilemma, challenge or big live question. Today we're hearing
from Ruby.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
My partner's a slow riser and loves easing into the weekend.
I'm the opposite up early ready to get things done,
and I get restless.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
If the day feels like it's slipping by. He always says, why.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Do you have to be in such a rush, But
it's not about rushing, it's just how I'm wired. On
top of that, he watches every football game all weekend.
I'm not into it, and sometimes it feels like I'm
sidelined trying to fit in my own plans. I want
to support his interests, but I also want space for
my own. It's tough finding a balance between spending time
together but also feeling fulfilled in myself on the weekends.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Oh Ruby, this is a tough one. But I think
you're not alone because I've heard a lot of people
talk about this idea of individual identity versus the relationship identity,
And how do I keep space for my own sense
of self and who I am in the world and
in the relationship while also building, developing, and nurturing the
(24:57):
relationship which forms an identity of its own. What I
would encourage you to do is maybe, as you can predict,
this involves having a conversation with your partner, but invite
him into the solution right when you talk to him,
share what your thoughts, feelings, and concerns are and try
and do so using eye statements.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I feel this. I think that.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
This tends to result in more open communication and the
other person doesn't feel as defensive if we start statements
with I. But what I also encourage you to do
is invite him into the solution right, open up the
challenge that you're facing with him, and invite him to
(25:42):
help you find a solution. So this might be something
like saying, I really value our relationship and I want
us to both feel.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Good in it.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
How do you suggest we go about navigating this? So
you're bringing him in so it can be a collaborative approach, because,
as you've highlighted, that balance between individual identity and the
relationship can be a challenging one to get right.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
And there's not one clear answer that's going to work
every week.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
It's probably going to be an ongoing conversation with an
ongoing solution.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Saying no is literally such a skill. Sounds so simple,
but really it's not. And Asasia, can you give us
a recap of what we learned today?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Absolutely, First up, it's okay to say no. Second, we
can say no to other people while still maintaining kindness
and respect for the relationship. Third, if saying no feels
hard in the moment, try to opt for a not
right now or I have to get back to you. Lastly,
(26:49):
by saying no, we will have times where others are
disappointed or they feel let down. This is normal and
natural and a part of life. If you value the relationship,
think about what else you can do to contribute to
the relationship that still nurtures it while maintaining your boundary.
Next week, we're tackling a biggie. It's when I hear
(27:10):
about from so many people in my life, not just
my work. We're going to be discussing the quickest and
easiest way to get out of a life rust and
reset when we feel like everything sucks.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
If you have any burning questions, there's a few ways
to get in touch with us links in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't
a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas we present
here should always take into account your personal history. The
executive producer of But Are You Happy? Is Niama Brown.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
Tarlie Blackman is our senior producer.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
I'm a Shani Dante, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Doctor Anastaga Hernus. The names and stories of clients discussed
have been changed for the purpose of maintaining anonymity.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
If this conversation.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Brought up any difficult feelings for you, we have links
for more resources in the show notes around the topics
we discussed today. You can also reach out to organizations
beyond Blue All Lifeline if you're wanting more immediate support.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Thanks for listening.
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