What Alexis Fernandez-Preiksa Knows About Narcissism

In this special mid-season episode of But Are You Happy, Clare Stephens talks to Alexis Fernandez-Preiksa.

Alexis describes her work as combining neuroscience, psychology and tough love - and that’s exactly what she does with her books and in her podcast, Do You F*cking Mind.

Alexis and Clare discuss the science of happiness and so much more - including how to make meaningful friendships as adults, how to end a toxic relationship and open yourself to a healthy one, how to move through heartbreak and identify the narcissists in our lives - and so much more.

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CREDITS:

Host: Clare Stephens

Guest: Alexis Fernandez-Preiksa

Executive Producer: Naima Brown

Producer: Tahli Blackman

Producer: Cassie Merritt 

Audio Producer: Thom Lion 

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mama Me, I acknowledges the traditional owners of the land
and waters that this podcast is recorded on.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
It's almost like I needed to shake off that energy.
I needed that year of just feeling my emotions, feeling
the anger of the frustration, and rebuilding because I was confident,
you know, and so it really helped her rebuild myself.
But then I thought, never again. I will rebuild my
life to the point where I love it, to the
point that if I never meet someone again, I genuinely

(00:43):
know I'll be happy because I've created.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
This Hello and welcome to But are you Happy with Me?
Claire Stevens. Our third season of the show ended a
few weeks ago, and I'm excited to tell you that
season four launches on the twelfth of September on Are
You OK? Day with an absolute dream guest of mine.

(01:06):
But I didn't want to wait that long to bring
you a new conface, So I've got something very special today,
a mid season episode with Alexis Fernandez Preakser, author and
host of the podcast Do You Fucking Mind? Alexis describes
her work as combining neuroscience, psychology, and tough love, and

(01:30):
that's exactly what she does. If you've ever listened to
her show or read her books, she gives mindset hacks
and dissects friendship and boundaries and resentment and stress and
rumination and willpower and all those components that go into
building a happy life. It was because of that blend

(01:50):
of science and warmth and common sense that I really
wanted to speak to Alexis about happiness. I wanted to
know her story, the person behind the helpful and informed advice,
and I wanted her expertise. She talked to me about
moving through heartbreak, reframing regret, make king friends as an adult,

(02:12):
identifying and navigating narcissists, and the way optimism and pessimism
entirely changed the way a person walks through the world.
I got so much out of this conversation with Alexis,
and I know you will too. Here's Alexis Fernandez preaks up.
I want to start by asking, did you grow up

(02:34):
in a happy family?

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yes, yes I did. I grew up in and not
even just my immediate family. I was really really lucky
to have my cousins two blocks down. We were all
so tight. Every single afternoon we were the four girls
were either at our place or we were at my
auntie and uncle's place, and so it was just such
a tight The nine of us were so tight, so close.

(02:58):
I had a really great, loving upbringing with this really
tight family. So I was very, very, very very lucky
in that sense, and to this day, like my cousins are,
like my sisters.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Do you think, looking back at your childhood, there was
anything that was a challenge to happiness, like anything internal
or external, or do you think generally you had a happy,
positive disposition.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
I mean generally I had a happy, positive disposition, but
I really struggled to make friends when I was little.
I was very introverted as a kid, and one thing
that I think maybe was a challenge, which in hindsight
I look as a blessing. But my parents are immigrants,
so my first language was Spanish, and I spoke Spanish
as my first That was my mother tongue. Now English

(03:44):
is more dominant because it's you know, but that was
what we spoke at home, and so I learned English through,
of course the TV being on and north that, so
you know, kids pick it up in four to six weeks,
but I really only started speaking English when I started
school and I was very like, I was really really
outgoing with my family. I was just so bold and

(04:06):
I was always doing acting and you know, but when
it came to school, especially in I was very I
had one friend. It took me a while to even
get that one friend. Then too, and then and then
when we moved to Queensland, that was like another blow
to that social side of me. But that almost was
what I needed because it really forced me. It was
like sink or swim. Now, it's like you've always struggled

(04:27):
to make friends, Now you got to. So the first
year was hard again I just had one friend.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Again.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
I was repeating that same pattern of just But then
in high school, I think that's where it really started
to turn around, because you start to meet all these
different people that come from different schools. When you get
into high school, I started doing more acting, dancing, I
was really putting myself out there and that really started
to turn around for me. But yeah, I always struggled
in that making friends as a kid.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, that's so that's probably surprising to people who listened
to your podcast and who kind of know you was
quite extroverted and bubbling and giving really good advice on
a friendship. You are a podcast host and a best
selling author and a personal trainer, and you have a
master's a neuroscience.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
You're also a.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Mindset coach and you have a new audiobook coming out
called How to Chase Change Thirty Days to Master Your Mindset.
What is a mindset coach and are there some bad ones?

Speaker 1 (05:23):
I think there's definitely bad mindset coaches. I mean, I
can't think of any specific ones. I actually don't know
that many personally. But you've got to look at your
brain and your mind as very, very heavily intertwined. They're different,
but they're very heavily LinkedIn you can't have one without
the other. So I look at the brain as being
it's the hardware of the computer, and the mind is

(05:44):
the software of the computer. So with mindset, the beauty
about the brain is that your thoughts can actually change
how your brain is structured, how your brain is wired.
Through behavior, you can change how dense your brain is
as far as how much mass there is in your brain.
You can actually stave off atrophy in the brain through

(06:04):
actual exercises and also thoughts, and if you're learning more,
if you're someone that's always trying new things, like I'm
going to try the guitar, I'm going to try the
Rubik's cube. I'm going to try You're actually growing your
brain doing these things, which then staves off de generation.
So you look at I can actually use my mind
and my thoughts to steer my brain with the hardware

(06:25):
in the direction that I want it to. And our
brain is always, always, always evolving. We hear terms like neuroplasticity,
But neuroplasticity I think we look at it as all good,
but it's good or bad. You know, you can plastically
change your brain into the negative by you know, if
you have chronic stress, you're causing neuroplastic changes that are
not helpful. But then you can do something called self

(06:46):
directed neuroplasticity. And that's where mindset coach comes in because
that is where you are directing your thoughts to actually
change how your brain is wired. So I think that
if you can understand the scientific basis of how the
brain is wired and which areas of the brain communicate
when you're thinking certain things or doing certain things, I
think that's what makes a good mindset coach.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
And where do you think think manifestation sits within that.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
So I'm really big on manifestation, and I think that
there's a lot of science to help back that. I
think that you know when you hear the term, what
you focus on expands in a more neuroscientific level. That
is so true. I don't think we realize how biased
our brains are. We are very selective with what we

(07:34):
allow into our awareness subconsciously, so we think that we're
not We think that we can look at something and
not be biased, but we are so biased. So if
you're somebody that is innately pessimistic, people are not friendly
to you. Because you notice the unfriendly people, doors are
not opening for you. Things are really difficult. It's me

(07:55):
against the world. It's a fight. I'm fighting and fighting
and fighting. It's a slog. It's a struggle. Don't trust anyone.
And then because these are your ingrained beliefs, they are
confirmed left, right and center, and you seek it out
even if you don't want to. You do someone who's
optimistic because says, oh my god, people are so friendly.
Not that person just smiled at me. Oh oh, And
then everyone's smiling at you. But you probably don't realize

(08:16):
that your energy is a lot open. You're probably a
lot warmer to people because of that. Then more people
start smiling at you, then people introduce you to other people.
It's because you are seeking. You see open doors everywhere.
Two people could have the exact same day. An optimistic
person is walking through all these doors. They're seeing the openings,
they're seeing the opportunities, and the pessimistic person is saying,

(08:38):
that was such a horrible day. Everyone was glaring at me.
I just don't know what I'm doing wrong. And that
just is just a glimpse of this idea of manifestation,
this attraction and this like attracts like, and we are
biased to look for what we've trained our brain to
look for, whether we meant it or not. So I
think it's not about blaming yourself saying I've cause this,

(09:00):
but it's about just being aware of where am I
at right now in the scale of do I attract
or am I someone that's constantly repelling? And I feel
like it's just an uphill battle.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
Can be quite cynical and quite anti anything woo woo,
And obviously you're not woo woo. You have a bad
around in science, And so sometimes when I hear the
manifestation stuff, my war goes up and I'm like, no, no, no.
But I remember a few years ago I wrote kind
of a note to myself being like, this is what

(09:30):
I want to do in the next few years. I
wrote it down on a piece of paper. I forgot
about it. I went and found it recently, and it's spooky.
It's really freaky that the things that you write down
you don't even know. Unconsciously you are working towards them,
and you've put something out there and just kind of
articulated what it is you want and you don't realize

(09:51):
that just by almost putting it into the universe, I
sound so woo woo, but it kind of ends up happening.
Do you have an example of manifestation in your own life?

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Massively massively? Well, this is a funny one. So my
partner I definitely manifested him and it was really interesting
because it's the same thing. So I went through this.
I was probably single for three years before I met Tyrone,
and I was for the first year and a half
scorned single woman, hated relationships. I was bitter, bitter, bitter,
I've just been burnt. But then after that I started

(10:22):
to soften. I did a lot of healing, and I
got myself to a really happy place to the extent
that I was genuinely open to welcoming love into my life.
I was in a good place, didn't need it, but
I thought that it would be nice. But I was
still in that phase of like, but I'm really enjoying
being single, so I'm open, but maybe in a little bit,
it's fine. And my best friend, she said, I think
she read or listened to a podcast where they say

(10:42):
you need to write a list and get really specific
of what that partner has to look like. So we
sat down at a cafe and she's like, I'm gonna
write my listener and I thought, okay, I'll just do
it for fun. So we had our laptops out and
I just typed out this list, and I didn't think
much of it. Very recently, I was going through my
hard drive and I was like, oh my god, I
found this list. I wonder how close it is to
Tyrone and I'm talking I had about twenty things on

(11:03):
this list. I got so specific and I never revisited
that list ever again. It was the one time every
single thing on that lie except one thing.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
He ticks and what sort of things were they?

Speaker 1 (11:14):
So they were things like, I want somebody who I'm
really close with his family. I want him to adore
my family. I want him to be able to hang
out with my friends when I'm not there. I want
him to celebrate my wins as hard as I celebrate his.
I want humor. I want a secure man, like secure
a man. And I specifically wrote I want to travel

(11:35):
with or without him and it never be an issue.
And I've gone to Europe twice without him. And there
was all these really specific things that I had learned
through realizing what I didn't want another relationships. It was
really controlling or insecure relationships. So I just it was
all based around a feeling. And then I said, I want,
you know, dark features, because I always lashed like the

(11:57):
brown eye, brown hair, you know. And so I spoke
about physically, and I spoke about mainly personality and emotional
and what we would have together. And the only thing
that he didn't take off on that list was one
that actually is so insane magnificant is must be older
than me, and he's younger. And now I look back,
I'm like, well, that's probably why the universe of whatever.
Didn't factor that it's important because it's actually so insignificant

(12:20):
because emotional intelligence is what matters obviously. And yeah, so
there's a prime example of one.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
You mentioned traveling on your own. Is that something that's
been important to you and what have you learnt from
those travels?

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Oh, it's a lot, a lot, a lot, and it's
taught me so much. One big trip that I did,
I actually, on a whim bought a one way ticket
to Paris. This is not the time that I was
actually really sad is I had time in between. And
this is advice from my mum. Actually, one day I'd
gone through a breakup with an actual nice person and
I was devastated and he was just the loveliest guy
and he ended it just like I just don't love

(12:55):
you anymore. And I just could not couldn't fathom it.
So I said to my mom, I'm good, I'm going
to Europe. She's like, a, let's just listen. I'm all
for you traveling. But if you buy a ticket and
go right now, in the depths of your heartbreak, you're
going to be sitting in a hotel room on the
other side of the world. Alone and sad, and I
was like, oh my god, I don't want that. So
then I waited, and about a year later I did
it because I was still heartbroken, but I could manage

(13:17):
my emotions and I bought this one way ticket and
I went and it was the best thing I ever did,
by far for myself, because I threw myself in the
deep end. I started teaching politis in Paris. I was
I It forced me. I had to find I made
French friends, not Australian It's like French people. I was like,
this is unreal. It really forced me to create something
for myself from scratch. And when you can do that,

(13:41):
and it doesn't have to be on the other side
of the world, but if you can, I highly encourage
you because it was amazing. But that trip to me,
that time that I spent in France working and socializing,
I carry that in my heart all the time. It
is such a big part of who I am now.
It taught me so much and there were challenges. I
cried when I was there, but overall, it was the
best thing I've ever done. And I think people think

(14:03):
it's going to be all, you know, sunshine and rainbows
and it's not. It's challenging, but overcoming the challenges is
the reward. That's what's really cool. When you get there
and then you get your first client, then you get
ten clients, and then you're like, oh my god, I
can actually make a living now. And then you know,
you find your first friend and then they invite you out.
So it's all these little wins along the way, and
you think I did that. I did all of that

(14:25):
on my own accord, you know, off my own back.
So that teaches you so much about how much you
can rely on yourself. I think traveling, doing things alone especially,
it teaches you that you can rely on yourself, which
then makes you more equipped to jump into the deep
end more often in your life, because I think life

(14:45):
should always be about it's not about everything has to
go well for me. I don't look at relationships now
as like this will never, like this is forever. This
is forever, even with Tyrone, who I adore, were engaged
with getting married, like I love him. I don't look
at this relationship as I will die if it ends.
I hope it doesn't end, be really sad if it did.
But I also have taught myself that I can bounce

(15:07):
back that if the worst case scenario happens, I will
be okay. You want to teach yourself that if bad
things happen, you can bounce back. Not I've got to
sell myself up so nothing bad happens, because if you
set yourself up in that way, I can't go and
do that thing alone. What if I fail? What if
I don't get the job. I'm not going to go
for that promotion. I'm not going to quit my job
and travel. I'm not not not because if it doesn't fail,

(15:29):
screw that. Instead think I'm going to do this, but
I'm going to be so well equipped emotionally that if
it doesn't work out, I'm going to be okay. I'll
be okay. It will suck initially, yeah, but I will
climb back up.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
And I've been through hard things before exactly, and I've
been okay.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
And that's what the traveling taught me. That's what a
lot of things taught me. It teaches you your own resilience.
When you're aware of your own resilience, you're so much
more likely to do harder things.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
When you've been working really hard and you're kind of
stuck in that productivity cycle, and then you travel. What
do you find that travel does to your I.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Think it's actually really good to do that, because, especially
if you're doing things throughout the day, it's very different.
I think if you're going on a trip where all
you do is relax, like you might be going somewhere
tropical and you're relaxing, you might be going round and
around and around, being like I need to do something.
I'm not productive. But if you're traveling in the sense
where you're actively doing things every day, you're meeting people
or whatever, I think it's it's one of the best

(16:31):
resets you can do because it actually shifts your focus.
And like I was speaking of before, what you focus
on expands sometimes work and being busy, this idea of hustling,
it takes up all your awareness and it's like a
huge chunk of your awareness. And then you got to sleep.
Then you wake up and that's true, and so then
this idea, I think traveling really helps you kind of

(16:53):
zoom out and you're able to be like, there's so
much more to life, so much more to life, and
this is not the be all, end all, And if
this doesn't work out for me, I'm actually still me.
I'm actually still a complete human being, and we lose
touch of that so often when we're sombit in something.
The same goes for heartbreak, the same goes for anything
where you're so immersed in it you can't pull yourself out.

(17:16):
The moment you have the opportunity to look at it
from a different angle, you think, Wow, I'm acting like
this is my whole life, but it's not. It's not.
There's so much to enjoy, to be here for, to
live for, and here I am acting like this is it.
So I think if you're someone who's so embedded in
your work, honestly find a way to, you know, snap
out of it for a bit, or take yourself out

(17:36):
of that zone.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
I think I have always found that the older you get,
the faster time goes, because proportionally a week is a
shorter period of time when you're older. Yeah, and so
I have felt that time is in fast forward, And
I think that happens when you're working really hard, even
just in terms of your brain. When we're doing the

(18:01):
same thing over and over again, time does speed up,
whereas when you're overseas or you're in a new environment,
it slows down, because if exactly what you say about
awareness that if you're in a new city, a day
in a different city feels like a month in your routine. Yes,
and I just find it's such a reset when you
come back. Do you find that in terms of creativity energy,

(18:25):
that you're really recharged?

Speaker 1 (18:27):
Definitely? Definitely, And I think it's very true what you're
saying from like a brain perspective. When you are almost
kind of doing something not necessarily autopilot, but when you're
sowing the zone and time flies, that's because we're not
really really present in the moment. Especially with work, we're
doing a thousand things, so time goes really fast. For example,

(18:49):
when you are put on hold, you're thinking about how
you're being put on hold, and time just does not pass,
and you're like, this is the longest minutes of my life.
Same as like when you're holding a planket's like when
will this end? A microwave minute is the longest mode
in the world. So it's because we're hyper aware of
what's happening in that moment. When you travel, your awareness

(19:11):
of what's happening, you're more likely to be present with
new experience and not just traveling but new experiences or
really fulfilling experiences. And Humanan actually talks about this about
the frame rate of what you're taking in, and you
actually take in more frames quote unquote when you're enjoying
it or whatever, but you're aware, or when you're bored

(19:33):
and you're aware, you're taking more from So it feels
longer versus when you're kind of just doing something you know,
like working and it's just you're on autopilot and getting
it done, it feels shorter. So I think that it's
really important with your day to day life, so life
doesn't fly by. You want to be doing things where
you're really present and really enjoying every single day. It's
not saying don't work, but after work, what are you doing?

(19:54):
What are you doing to be really present in the
moment and have like this is my time where I'm
speaking to my partner, I'm going for a walk with
my best friend or whatever it is that you do.
But you don't want to come home and then line
on the couch and scroll for two hours and then
go to bed.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
And so when you started the podcast, so many people
want to start one. Yes, so many people have an
idea and they really want to do it, and they
don't know where to start, or they start one and
find it's really difficult, and you know, it might grow
slower than they want. What did it look like for
you to start it, and what was your benchmark for success?

Speaker 1 (20:28):
So I didn't know that much about podcasting. The podcast
that I was listening to at the time were True Crime.
I was thinking I should do either a YouTube channel
or a podcast talking about neuroscience and psychology because I
was halfway through my Masters at the time, and so
I thought, I'm desperate to share this knowledge. I'm obsessed
with what I'm learning. So when I started it, the

(20:51):
intention behind it was a to just have an outlet
to talk about what I loved and b I knew
that teaching helps you consolidate information, so while I was studying,
I thought, this is a good way for me to
teach what I'm learning and identify the gaps in my knowledge.
And then I thought, this is just a fun little
exercise to do. But it picked up really quickly and

(21:12):
it was all word of mouth. And I think the
reason this particular podcast, my podcast did so well is
because we all have a brain. It's all very relatable.
We all want to improve aspects of our mind and
our brain and our life. I speak about the neuroscience
of heartbreak, I speak about you know, self esteem, and
then I speak about things like ketamine on the brain.
Like I talk about all sorts of things. But I

(21:34):
think what makes it really impactful is that people see
themselves in the episode, and when you see yourself in something,
you want to share it. So it grew through word
of mouth because I think a lot of people are like,
that's me, and then they share it being like, as listen,
this is me. And so I think if your audience
is sharing your work, that's just the best thing for you.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
You get a lot of messages from people, and you
a lot of your episodes are sort of based on
almost this symbiotic relationship with your audience where they'll ask
for what they're interested in, or you'll put it out
there that you want to do an episode on something,
and you get a lot from your audience. Is there
anything you're noticing about trends you keep getting questions about

(22:17):
and that's sort of a common experience of people in
terms of happiness.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yes, yes, so I would say there's two. I mean,
there's quite a few But the two main ones that
especially lately is friendships as adults. A quality friendships. That's
a huge one. There's a lot of people that stay
friends with people from their past just because, and they
talk about these friendships to me, they write in their
stories and I look at it and I think, I

(22:45):
would never keep that person in my life like ever.
And people are so scared to let go of a
toxic friendship because they'd rather a toxic friendship than be alone.
People would rather suffer than be alone. And so my
thing is I'm always trying to teach people how to
create the bare minimum standard, and that's your relationship with yourself,
because if I'm happy being alone, that's the minimum standard.

(23:07):
And I'm not going to accept this trash of you know,
how people are treating me and all of that. So
that's kind of one of the big ones. Another really
big topic is people feeling like they're either always working
so hard but not doing enough, like I'm not doing enough,
I feel like I need to be doing more, and
just not feeling fulfilled. They have this sense of I'm hustling.

(23:29):
I'm hustling. It's this let's glorify being busy, but I
still feel like I'm not doing enough. And I think
that comes down to you could work every hour of
the day and you're not going to feel like you're enough.
I think feeling like you're enough actually comes from slowing down.
It's so hard to accept that, but when you're able
to slow down, it's so cliche, but it's like stop
and smell the roses. It's like, how can you appreciate

(23:51):
the small things in life? Because even when you achieve
the highest success that you thought you would achieve, that
win is not what makes you happy. It's the tiny
things every single day that makes somebody happy. You can
feel a sense of accomplishment, you can feel pride, but
happiness comes from the day to day. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
And productivity culture, I think is something I've really observed,
and the guilt people feel when they're not being productive,
and you have a line. I think I've heard you
say a couple of times about like working on yourself
is productive. I've also listened to a lot of what
you've said about friendship. What have you found about those

(24:31):
conversations about friendship? Do you find that people are changing
their behavior?

Speaker 1 (24:38):
I think slowly, but the ones that do it's always
good it's always good. I think people are so scared,
and I understand why, especially if you're not used to it.
It's this nobody wants to be rejected, and especially when
it comes to friendships, it's almost people are almost more
afraid of being rejected by a potential friend than a
potential lover. I think with a lover, you think ultimate.

(25:00):
A lot of people think, oh, it's a numbers game,
it's fine, But when it comes to friendships, people freeze up.
They get awkward. Oh my god, what if this? Imagine
if they just reject me as a friend, what does
that mean? So they're really stand offish to make a
new friend. But the moment people put themselves out there
and try, the amount of people that then message me
and say I did this and it worked. It actually
wasn't that hard. I commented on someone's outfit at a

(25:23):
bar and we ended up chatting for an hour and
then we swapped numbers. But it's so true. It's people
need to change their mentality. You're not flawed. The reason
you've got less friends as an adult is because you
used to be in an environment where you just had
people around you by default that had to be there
every single day, so you just gravitate to those people,
and then it's not bad that you drift apart when

(25:43):
you're out of that environment because you realize that you're
actually very different in many other ways, and that's also fine.
But then you have to change your mentality around making
adult relationships. Just like you've got to put yourself out
there in the dating scene, you have to put yourself
out there, and the effort once you found that friend
is again very different. In high school, you just rocked up.
That was the effort. You couldn't not because you had

(26:05):
to go. So here I have to put in my
effort with my friends. Can I expect the same because
we have a standard that we hold each other too,
and that's what makes a good friend.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
More of my conversation with Alexis Fernandez preaksa after this
short break, and you also talk a lot about boundaries
and setting a bit of a fence around your house
that doesn't demand anything from other people, but you're just

(26:39):
saying this is what I will and won't accept. What
has your journey been with boundaries through your life? Because
is that something you learn from experience, from letting people
cross boundaries that you then learn how to have one.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Definitely that came from well, I had two really unhealthy relationships,
but one I was quite young, and I think I
just had no idea what was going on. In hindsight,
it was narcissistic. It was very emotionally abusive, but at
the time I just thought, oh, that was crazy because
I was nineteen. I just didn't under stand. And the
other one was the relationship before Tyrone, where I was

(27:16):
like single for nearly three years after that because I
was just so burnt by it. And that was again, like,
that was really awful emotional abuse. Narcissist text book, And
I know people throw the word around narcissists, but firstly,
I think there's more narcissist than people realize because they're
not out there getting diagnosed, So how do we know
how many there are? And secondly, when you have an

(27:36):
experience with a full blown narcissist, it's so clear. But
that was just you're so controlled. Before you know it,
you've changed who you are. You feel like you're walking
on eggshells. You will say to them you are right,
even though you know they're not, just so you don't
have another screaming match. You notice yourself just give away
everything that's you just to try and keep the peace

(28:00):
and you then unfortunately, your respect for yourself and your
love for yourself goes down. So even when you really
identify this is just not healthy anymore, you hold them
in such high esteem that you think I'll never get
someone this good because I'm not good enough to get
someone else. So I can't leave because they're this greater
person than me. So then you feel stuck. It's just awful.

(28:23):
And I mean, I would never say that I'm you know,
it's not like, oh, I'm so happy that that happened
to me. But in hindsight, it taught me so many,
so many lessons about myself, and leaving that relationship was incredible.
Like what I learned from the journey out of that
relationship was really cool. It almost served for me to
have that really jaded year after being like fuck this,

(28:44):
fuck oh sorry, I'm sorry. Now you're allowed to sway.
I was like this, and I was just so like oh,
but it's almost like I needed to shake off that energy.
I needed that year of feeling my emotions, feeling the
anger of the frustration and rebuilding because I was confident,
you know, and so It really helped her rebuild myself.

(29:05):
But then I thought, never again. I will rebuild my
life to the point where I love it, to the
point that if I never meet someone again, I genuinely
know I'll be happy because I've created this. It was
awful and hard, and you see a lot of people
in these relationships and they will justify staying. And when
you look at it from the outside, especially when you've

(29:25):
been there, you just think, oh, like, when when will
you leave? You know you can only just be there
to help.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
And when you're in a relationship like that, what kind
of behaviors stuck out as narcissistic in hindsight? Because a
lot of You're right, a lot of people just shove
that label on anyone who's a bit mean to them
that they don't get along with. But what do you
think sticks out as a narcissistic behavior in a relationship?

Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah, so narcissistic definitely. Isn't they just love themselves? Someone
who's upped themselves and loves themselves is not a narcissist
if you actually love yourself. Narcissists don't love themselves. They
love this false idea of who they want people to perceive.
Them to be. They create this image and they're in
love with the image, but they don't like themselves. But
one main way feature is the initial love bombing at

(30:13):
the start. That is a hallmark thing. And it's not
to say that if someone's really, really, really nice it's
a red flag, but this is what they do at
the start. They will do things for you that almost
you can't repay them for They want you to be
in debt to them, so they want to do like
favors that you just couldn't repay, or they're really financially
generous to you, or they always pick you up and

(30:35):
drop you off and do everything for you. They'll get
you to move in you don't need to pay rent,
So then eventually you start accepting all these acts of
quote unquote generosity, and then they get you to a
point where you need them and then bang, they turn
around in a very short amount of time. So you'll
see people moving in really quickly and just leaning on
them really quickly, and then they'll turn around and they've

(30:56):
got leverage. Then they'll test you, so everything will be perfect.
Then they'll do something to shock you. They'll say something
quite mean, or they'll do something quite mean, or they'll
react in a way that's not normal based on the
last three months of them being really nice, and so
because it's been so incredible, your guard is down and
you don't defend yourself as you normally would. You think,

(31:17):
oh my god, like this is the perfect relationship. They
might and instantly you think they must have had a
really hard day. I'll just let it go. Oh my god,
oh my god.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
No.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
Then it gets worse and worse, and you're scrambling to
bring it back to that honeymoon three months where it
was so perfect. But what you don't realize is that
that was the trap. It will never go back to that.
And then they start manipulating, manipulating. Then they give you
glimpses of the good times, a glimpse here, because they
want it to be this rollercoaster of reliance on them emotionally.
And then they do things like well they are blatantly

(31:46):
gased like you. You're having a conversation and they will
just outright say you lie. You never said that, and
you're so sure that you did. But because they do
it so often, you start to doubt yourself. And then
when you start to question yourself, it is game over
because that's when they're in your head. And you can
never reason with a narcissist ever, ever. Ever, they're not

(32:07):
there to understand you. They never seek to understand you.
They seek to control. All they want is power. So
if you look at it from that perspective, the only
solution is to step away. Walk away.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
That's such a good way of framing it, and I've
heard that from a lot of experts in the field.
I asked this question to all my guests, and I'm
particularly interested to hear your answer. As a neuroscientist, and
in the context of relationships, is there a time the
world told you you'd be happy but you weren't.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, I think so. Well, Firstly, I think a lot
of people think that a relationship is going to make
them happy. I think that's the biggest mistake you can
make telling yourself that. I think that in a healthy relationship,
you contribute to each other's happy life. But a person
can't make you happy. And then when you enter a
relationship and they on paper tick all the boxes, and

(32:59):
then this is the bad thing. You know, you then
make other people think that you're happy because you don't
want them to see the cracks in the relationship, and
so often I remember when in these relationships, I would
put on more of a facade that I was happy
and want to believe it myself because I didn't want
people worried about me. I thought, oh, no, I can

(33:20):
deal with it. But my parents wouldn't be able to
deal with it if they knew how horrible he was
to be behind closed doors, they'd be devastated because I've
got such a good relationship with my family, and so
I would then even be and I'd try and you know,
or you know, soon after the breakup, I went overseas,
and again I was really lonely and sad. And everyone

(33:40):
wants to go overseas, everyone wants to travel, and again
I was just pretending I was just so happy, but
I was crying every night, you know, so so many
times where I thought, well, this is what everyone says
will make you happy, the relationship or doing this big
trip overseas. I've since done great trips and sash I'm
genuinely was happy, but like you know, sometimes where it's
so fresh and you're in so much pain, but you

(34:02):
just don't want other people to know that you're suffering,
so you to protect them. You pretend that you're happy.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
And I think that can be a little bit of
shame in being in a situation like that, and you
start to blame yourself and then think people are gonna
judge me if they know that I'm still in this relationship,
and they're going to think there's something wrong with me,
and it isolates you even further. On your podcast, you've
talked about the neuroscience of breakups, and you've talked about

(34:33):
breakups quite a bit your book about Self Love, there
are parts of that that are about breakups and how
to kind of rebuild yourself. When you had the bad
breakup and were then single for three years, what did
that kind of heartbreak look like afterwards?

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Well, there was the initial you know, like devastation. It
was over. It was you know, that shock, and I
remember being so sad. And this is another really good
thing for me. I was so sad. My parents live
in Brisbane and they flew down. I went and stayed
at my auntie and uncles. It was myself, my cousins,
my auntie and un call, my parents and for like
three days, everyone just kind of rallied around me. We

(35:14):
cooked meals, we watched movies. The whole family was together,
and I feel like that was a really healing time
because what I loved about my family is that I
then came to realize that a lot of them did
see a lot of issues. But you can't really tell
someone when they're in that relationship. You know, you just
they try, but really you're not there to listen when
you're in that And no one ever ever ever said oh,

(35:34):
we knew and I told you so, never you know,
so it was always just we're here for you, We're
here to support you. And I think that if ever
they're supporting someone who's going through something, you don't need
to be the hero at the moment and say oh
I knew that they would talk. Well, that achieves nothing.
You just make the person feel stupid. So I think
it was really cool to have this three days, not
on social media and nothing. So I think you need

(35:56):
when you go through that heartbreak, you need your healing grieving.
It's really important to feel your feelings. I think a
lot of people think, oh, well, if I just think
happy thoughts and no, but you have to process. You
have to and you're not designed to be happy all
the time, but to live a happy life. You have
to go through the peaks and troughs. You have to
feel all your feelings, and that makes you ultimately happy

(36:18):
because you can adjust how you deal with situations. I
think if you avoid the troughs, you're never really going
to be happy. So that was one thing, and then
after that then I thought, Okay, I'm still sad obviously,
so I need to find something that is bigger than
me that's going to pull me out of this, or
something that gives me a reason to get up every day.
And that's when I started The Masters, and I just

(36:41):
loved it so much, and it was really nice that
even through the heartbreak, I had something that I was
working towards that I loved it. So something that I
would recommend if you're going through a really, really tough
time is try and to introduce something new into your
life that's got nothing to do with your Exit's almost
like a new chapter that means so much to you
and you do it just for you. I think that's

(37:03):
the first step of really showing yourself love again.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Yeah, and I think sometimes it can almost be about
like crafting a new arm of your identity, like I'm
actually I'm still me this is who I am, and
you're discovering more about yourself when you're doing that new
thing and kind of leaning into the things that you're
most passionate about. Yeah, I think that's something that people

(37:29):
find in the wake of a breakup makes such a difference, massively, massively.
In your podcast, so you've talked about breakups and friendships
and emotional vampires, and you've talked about a lot of
these themes that are really relevant to your audience. Have
you ever spoken about something and regretted it, or spoken
about something and had feedback from people where you thought, oh,

(37:54):
that's actually not how I meant for that to land.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Luckily not Actually no, And I think the reason for
that is that most of the things that I speak about,
I will always look at it from a lens of
especially when it comes to some So this is the
beauty of what I started. We had to really learn
how to analyze studies and pull things apart, and so
your lens, even when you're not talking about a scientific paper,

(38:21):
your lens when you discuss a topic is very much
like how could it be viewed from the other side.
I speak about it from the position of how you're
dealing with someone else. But I always make people flip
the lens and say are you this to someone else?
Because it's very easy to say this is a toxic
relationship and for you to listen to the ten things
I've listed and say, yep, that's my partner toxic, toxic, toxic,

(38:42):
without realizing that you do five of those things, you know.
So a lot of the podcast is how often can
you flip the lens and can you look at what
I'm talking about here and apply it to yourself. It's
easy to identify what's annoying in your parents, but do
you do the same to them? You know? So a
lot of it comes to do with just asking yourself
a question. Rarely I talk about black and white, and
science is rarely black and white. It takes a long

(39:03):
time for something to become a law.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
How do the people around you respond to your city sucess?
So you've got friends that you will have had for
a long long time. Do you feel like people ever
lean in when things are really positive and shiny from
the outside, And do you think people get competitive with you? Like,

(39:25):
how do you kind of find that your personal relationships
go with you having a public profile and having something
really successful that you're known for.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Honestly, and I'm very, very very lucky to say this,
but the friends that I have, they are just the
biggest cheerleaders for each other's success. Like we're the kind
of friends that will speak so highly off each other
when they're not there. And my friends have done so
much in you know, mentioning my name in a room
full of opportunities, even when I'm succeeding and they're like,

(39:57):
you should get you should speak to you know, So
I feel like that harbors more of the same and
we do more for each other. Obviously, my family's so
like excited and proud and they love it. But even
with friends there, I've just been very fortunate. And of
course you've got to be selective with your friends as well.
But the friends that I have now in my life,
I couldn't be happier. I couldn't be happier with them.

(40:18):
I've never felt just not even a scaic of competition
from them, which is amazing.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
You talk about kind of boundaries with friendships and how
you teach people how to treat you, What kind of
boundaries do you have with friends? So how you said
you know, you've got to kind of pick your friends.
Well too, what kind of boundaries do you have where
if somebody did something, you'd think, Okay, that cross the boundary.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
This isn't what I need in my life. Yeah, totally.
So a lot of the things that people talk about,
you know, with their issues with their friends, I always say, okay, first, okay,
number one, you have to identify what is a good friend?
What would I And often it's a lot of the
time it's kind of you want to see what you
do for them reciprocated for most people. So you've got

(41:06):
to identify what does that look like. And obviously I
don't have any issues with my friends now, but in
the past with other people that I've been friends with,
certain things. For example, if I found out that my
best friend was talking behind my back, I'd get upset,
but I wouldn't instantly cut them out. What I would
say is, what were you talking about behind my back?

(41:27):
Because let's say that I was acting like the fool
and she was debriefing with someone else, being like, yeah,
alexis really did that was like inappropriate her behavior? I did?
I would have to eat that because I don't think
my friends have to agree with me on everything. I
don't believe that your friends have to have your back
even when you're being inappropriate. I do not agree with that.

(41:48):
I think you can have a really good friendship where
you can pull each other up. That is actually what
makes a good friendship, where you can say I actually
don't agree with what you did there. Love you, but
I'm not going to have your back there because that
was not okay. Ye. But if I found out that
my friend was saying, oh my god, I can't believe
she's wearing that, and she you know, if she was
attacking my character, then I would have a problem with that.
So I think, trust me, I'm not going to love

(42:10):
any one talking about me behind my back. But there's
times where I'm like, okay, I have to eat that.
I have to accept that. And then there's times where
you can say, okay, this is not really a friend.
That's not something a friend does. Why are they trying
to bring me down unnecessarily with other people? And see
if they agree that's what I think is inappropriate. When
they try and pit others against you, that's something that
I would not stand for at all, And I wouldn't

(42:32):
even need to do much about it. I would just
distance myself from that person. It doesn't need to be
this big song and dance. You can just say, Okay,
I'm aware of this person's character. I don't need to
be a part of that. You don't have to end
the relationship. You just think you've uninvited yourself from being
in my inner circle. And that's okay.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
And I think that comes from a baseline level of
self esteem and self worth where you think, actually, no,
I'm worth doing that and keeping myself in a happy
place where I'm not affected. That's right other people's behavior.
How do you deal with failure? And I say failure
in inverted commas because I don't mean that it's actually

(43:14):
failing at something. I mean those experiences where something doesn't
go right and you learn from it. Do you have
any examples of that and how you have overcome it?

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Yeah, I mean there's a few, Like career wise, for sure. Look,
one of the best things to help you deal with
something when you know you make a mistake career wise,
there was a fork in the road and there was
two options to take, and you thought, okay, well this
is going to be the better one. And then you
look back and you think, well, that was a big mistake.
I should have gone the other way. That's happened to
me a couple of times, and some of them were

(43:45):
big mistakes, and I look back, especially financially, and you think,
oh my god, I don't want to think about what
it could have looked like if I'd gone the other way.
But one of the key things that I always bring
it back to is you have to remind yourself that
with what I knew at the time, I was confident
in that decision at the time. Hindsight's all well and good,

(44:08):
but I think the ut this idea of failure. I
kind of link failure to do I regret it, because
if I regret it, then that's good. Something can be
learnt from that. Regret last for not that long in
my mind, because if you just regret and you live
with regret, that's quite unhealthy and it erodes at you.
But when you can identify regret, you say, why do

(44:30):
I regret it? It's because I had power over the
situation and I did something that was against what my
instincts were at the time. Because you can't really regret
something that you thought was the right thing in the moment.
I can't say I regret dating that horrible person, because
I obviously entered that relationship thinking it was good. I
can't regret really that decision unless at the time I

(44:51):
went against my instincts and I went the other way.
But when you have that failure and it doesn't work
out and you have these feelings of regret, I like
to think, Okay, this is good. This is a lesson.
How do I make sure that this feeling doesn't arise again.
I'm going to put this to good use, because if
I can't make regret my teacher, then it's a waste.
But if I can look at it and say, okay,
I know how it feels like, So next time I'm

(45:12):
at a crossroads, how am I going to use this
as a lesson? So you can always turn something into
a lesson, and it's okay to think, wow, I really
messed up there. That was a joke, Like I'm so annoyed,
have the feeling, feel the frustration, but then think, Okay,
what has this taught me? How will this make me
wiser in the future. How can I be a better
business person or a better partner. Let's say you cheated

(45:35):
on your partner and they were the best thing that
ever happened to you, you got to say, well, there's
a reason I cheated. You know something was off. But
maybe what can I learn from this? I can learn
to be a better partner. I can learn to put
my pride on the side and genuinely apologize. I can
learn to be the person who's in the wrong. I
can learn what it feels like to not be forgiven
and have to forgive myself through being a better person.
So there's many, many, many things that you can learn

(45:57):
through regret, even when you stuff up massively.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
More of my conversation with Alexis Fernandez preaksa after this
short break, you have, even from childhood, had this positive mindset,
and you have all the logic and all the scientific

(46:22):
backing of how to live a happy life. Even with
all the resources you have, what would you say is
your current biggest challenge to happiness in your life.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
One thing that really always I have to keep at
bay is feeling like I'm not doing enough and then
feeling like, oh was that day a waste? Because and
this is what I teach as well, and it's something
that I feel, and you've just got to be consciously
aware of it and think Okay, put the deals into
practice and then it helps. But one thing is that
I will often feel like I'm behind the eight ball
with my work and with what I'm doing. And I

(46:54):
look at if I look at a short period of time,
it's really easy to say I haven't been as productive
as I could have been. I could have done that,
I could have done this. But then if I look
at the last four years, I'm really proud of myself.
I think just the last because like in the last
four or five years, you've done a lot, and I
think we are so unrealistic. And this is something Tony
Robins says. Actually, he says, you overestimate what you can

(47:16):
do in a year, but you underestimate what you can
do in ten. The timelines we put on ourselves are
sometimes so unnecessary. We are so hard on ourselves. But
if you zoom out, stretch it out, you think you've
come a really long way, You've done a lot. And
that's one for me, one of the best ways to
kind of counteract that thought'd be a bit kinder to myself,

(47:36):
a bit more gentle. And then, of course, when you're
feeling that way, I also remind myself, okay, what are
my values, because work is only just one of them.
You also had a really great time with your cousins today.
That's so important to your happiness. You also had such
a great morning with your dog. You also meditated, and
then you feel okay, actually I have ticked off all
these things that make me me, and then you feel better.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
I think that's that idea of the productivity and not
feeling like you're doing enough. I think also, I had
this conversation recently that sometimes you feel the most like
that when you're actually in the midst of something. So
when you're actually working on the project, you beat yourself up,
I'm not doing anything. What should I be doing? What

(48:20):
should I be doing? And then you're like, hold on,
it's just because the fruits of my labor haven't bloomed yet.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Like I've got to.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Actually be patient and do the best I can in
the moment, and I'll be surprised by what it looks like.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
That's right. And people who are trying to start a
business and whatever, they'll put in so many hours and
still feel like they're not doing enough because they might
not have launched, they might not be making the money
that they thought they'd be making at that point. So
it's got nothing to do with productivity. It's just this
idea that we have that external success is correlated with effort,

(48:56):
and it's not the case because you could put all
the effort in the world and it just doesn't succeed.
And then that can't be the marker of are you
good enough or not.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
When you look at your future and picture yourself as
an old woman looking back at your life, what do
you think you would wanted to have happened in order
to have lived a happy life.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
I would love to carry on kind of this. Firstly personally,
this like really close family legacy that my family's always had.
I think of all like my four grandparents they've all
passed away now, but oh, like it was just like
so nice when the whole family would get together. And
when I'm old, I want that we were all just
so happy together and it's just like I can still remember,

(49:40):
like what the sounds of my grandparents laughed when we're
all together. That is like family wise, I want that legacy,
So that personally is huge. And then as far as
professionally for me, I mean the fact that I can
help change someone's life by helping them change the relationship
with themselves. If I can have the opportunity to continue
doing what I'm doing, more books, more of the podcast,

(50:03):
and then it could translate in other ways that I'm
not even aware of yet what that could look like
in ten twenty years time. But if I could still
be doing that kind of work well into my seventies,
I'd be so happy. I'd be so happy.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Would the people in your life think that you're happy
right now, like the people the people who.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Know your best? Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
And are you happy?

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Yeah, Oh my god, very happy, very happy? And it
is I think it's just you know, when you finally
get to a point where you can look at all
the relationships in your life and think, I'm so confident
that every single person here has my best interest at
heart and I have theirs as well, that already just
puts you so at ease. You feel comfortable, you feel safe,

(50:45):
you feel confident to be able to go out and
do things that you want to do. Connection is huge,
It's a huge part of your happiness. And if you've
got bad people in your life, you're better off starting
from scratch, starting off alone, then staying with those bad people.
Like there's no question about that. So I think that
now more than ever, you know, my family can just
look at me and say, you are the happiest you've

(51:06):
ever been.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Do you think from your relationship with your audience that
there is almost like a loneliness epidemic or there is
like this failure of connection in a way that you
talk about growing up and that really close family environment.

(51:27):
There are a lot of people who don't have that.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
You don't have that.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Yeah, do you feel like we're getting further away.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
From Yes, I do. I do, And I think that
at the same time that we're getting further away from it,
you're seeing pockets of where it really works and why
it does so well. So I talk about, for example, CrossFit.
Why I think CrossFit is so successful, I personally don't
do it, but why I think it's so successful is because,
on top of the fact that it's a worker that
people enjoy, it is very community centered. And I think

(51:53):
that is the base of the success of CrossFit. When
people go to a CrossFit gym, they find a family
and people want community more than anything else, And people
say we're more connected than never. No, we're not. It's
a different kind of connection just because we've got email,
we're not connected. I can just email you instead of
sending you a letter. That's not the same. So we've

(52:14):
got to look at it as if you look at
legitimate communities where people are happy. So one thing we
did at UNI was these longevity studies. Well I personally
didn't do it, but my lecturer was very heavily involved
in doing, you know, studying centenarians, especially within Australia, people
that are older than a hundred And what made the
really healthy old people so happy is they all had

(52:34):
a community. They all had you know, they would all
play cards every day together, or they still worked and
then they would go and play that weird botchy ball thing.
You know, they're just randomly involved in random activities with
their friends and family is important, but you need a community.
You need your friends because, especially when you're old, you

(52:57):
don't want people visiting you because the grandkids should visit
the You want people who you talk to about stuff
that's relevant to you. I'm saying that you need to
create a strong base of friends where you are a
relevant player in the game. You know, where you're all relevant.
So these old people that were still really sound of
mind past the age of one hundred. They all had
close friendships. They felt like they contributed to their community.

(53:21):
They felt useful. And if you feel useful, if you
feel that you are a part of something bigger than
just you, that's where you feel connected and that's where
you feel happy. So I think it's so important that
we need to find our community in person in person,
and you might not vibe of these people immediately, but
you might meet an acquaintance you get along with, and

(53:42):
then they meet and then eventually you're like, I actually
have a really cool community here. But you have to
put in the effort because the alternative is bleak. Feeling
detached from connection is one of the hardest things to
go through.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Do you think some people misunderstand boundaries in a way
that actually sets them up for living more isolated lives? Like,
I think the way you talk about boundaries is very
much being honest and upfront in a way that ultimately
connects you with people. But I think sometimes people can

(54:19):
look around and think, you know, that person's negative, that
person irritates me. Sometimes I don't want any of them.
Do you find that from people contacting you?

Speaker 1 (54:29):
Yeah? Yeah, I think some people think it's boundaries. I've
created my list of boundaries, and then you know, I
now have no friends. And the thing is, you've got
to be really good at managing your expectations of people
because we're all human. No one's perfect, and safe to
say we ourselves are not perfect. For sure. We all
come flawed and that's just part of the human experience.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But you've got
to be aware that you know, when you interact with people,

(54:52):
your friends, there's gonna have things that grind your gears.
If you say, this person's.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
Always late, I'm so annoyed, or I've got a friend
and she always cancels on me. Is this is it
bad if I end the friendship? And I said, well,
what does the friendship provide you? I've personally got a
friend and she will cancel nine out of ten times.
Of ten times, the one time that we hang out,
out of those ten, we.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Have the best time. Yeah, the best time. So then
I one day I used to get so annoyed about it,
but then I thought, I can't affought to lose her.
She's such a good time. I really have so much
fun with her. I mean tears of laughter every time
I see her. So why don't I just manage my expectations?
Because I could say my boundary is that no one's
got and then cut her out. I could do that,
but I'm like, what a loss that would be? So

(55:35):
she's a flake. I've now managed my expectations. I understand
she's a flake. I'm not going to rely on her
like i'd rely on my best friend. I can make
that clear because if I was to say, well, I'm
relying on you, I'm setting myself up for disappointment because
she's shown me through a pattern of behavior what she's like.
It's my mistake to expect something else from her. So

(55:56):
if I say, okay, she's probably going to flake. So
I'll keep the window open, but I'll have an alternative
plan that if she flakes, then it's not a waste,
so I can do something in the area. I can whatever.
And so that's what I do now, and then when
we hang out, we have a ball and then when
she flakes, I'm like, I saw that. It's fine. Yeah,
And I've maintained a great friendship with her. She's not
one of my best friends, but we have. It's awesome,

(56:17):
and we've been friends for ten years. It's a case
by case basis as well. You manage your expectations based
on a pattern of behavior, based on their character and
what they've shown you. And I think that when you
do that, you can become so much happier. Things don't
affect you as much. Don't try and control other people
because you're never going to be able to anyway control
how you react to certain things. Be a bit more

(56:37):
carefree about it. It's not the end of the world.
And then these little quirks end up being just quirks
and not this is a deal breaker. And then you're
cutting everyone out, left, right and center because they did
one thing that you wouldn't do. But people aren't in
your head. What offends you might not offend them. For them,
maybe flaking is not a big deal, but for you
it is. So you've got to always look at it like,

(56:58):
there's very few things that are deal breakers where I'll
cut someone out forever, very few things, you know, and
you've got to understand what those non negotiables are for
you individually. But apart from that, everything can be managed.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
I think I love that. I think it's really important
given that we know that connection is probably the most
important part of achieving happiness. Thank you so much for
your time today. I really appreciate it. It was a
great chat.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Thank you. I loved that.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
Honestly, I got so much more from that conversation than
I expected. I think you could hear at the beginning
that anything that sounds slightly.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Woo wo gets me nervous.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
But what Alexis says about manifestation and our mindset tangibly
affecting the world we build for ourselves is very true.
I thought a lot about that idea afterwards, because probably
one of my biggest challenges is that I feel like
I can be quite a negative person, and it undoubtedly
changes the way I see everything in my life and

(58:03):
probably becomes self fulfilling. I'm so glad Alexis shared so
much about her own life and experiences. She's full of energy,
and she's the kind of person who you know would
be a really good friend and supportive person to have
around you. I literally want to set her advice on
boundaries as my alarm, so I listen to it at

(58:24):
the beginning of every single day. I've also been thinking
a lot about travel and what it does to our brains,
and I'm so Glad Alexis confirmed it. There's something profoundly
rejuvenating about travel, and I'm personally never happier than when
I'm traveling. I think it's because it demands the eb
present and probably also reminds us how small we are

(58:47):
in the scheme of things, which is ultimately quite liberating.
I love learning more about the science of happiness because
every time I do it, it confirms something that I
feel in my gut, which is that the world lies
to us about happiness. Happiness isn't simple. It's a habit
and a practice, and it's something we don't learn enough about.

(59:09):
In just a few weeks, I'll be bringing you season
four of But Are You Happy, and I cannot wait
for you to hear these conversations. There is so much
vulnerability in this next season, but also really profound lessons.
Lessons in failure, lessons in coping, lessons in how to
live a deeper, more fulfilling, and hopefully happier life. You're

(59:30):
going to hear from people like Amy Shark, Missy Higgins,
Steph Tisdall, Harry Garside, and so many more in the meantime.
Off the back of this episode, I implore you to
go break up with an arcsist and put yourself out
there and make a new friend. Let me know how
it goes. The executive producer of But Are You Happy
is Niama Brown. Our producer is Tarlie Blackman. Our audio

(59:53):
producer is Tom Lyon. I'm Clare Stevens and I'll be
back in your ears again very soon