September 5, 2025 • 24 mins
Are you in that stage of life where it’s starting to feel like YOU are the parent to your parents? Or maybe it’s always been that way?
In this episode of But Are You Happy, clinical psychologist Dr. Anastasia Hronis unpacks parentification and how to recover when your parents have made you the mediator between them or put you in charge of holding onto their emotional baggage.
You'll also learn:
- The emotional and developmental consequences of parentification
- How you know if you've been 'parentified'
- Ways you can repair yourself and your relationship with your parents
- How to identify and acknowledge your inner child
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CREDITS:
Hosts: Ashani Dante & Dr Anastasia Hronis
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Senior Producer: Tahli Blackman
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
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Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma may I acknowledges the traditional owners of the land
and waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
I am a single daughter raising two parents, okay, and
it is so tough raising parents in this generation because
it's like, I understand that you're in your fifties, but
you're not grown. Okay. I need to know you're wherebelt.
I need to know where you're.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
At, poor mother, miya. I'm your host, Ashannie Dante. Welcome
to But Are You Happy? The podcast that asks the
questions you avoiding therapy, and.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I'm doctor Anastagia Hernas, a clinical psychologist passionate about happiness
and mental health.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Are you in that stage of life.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Where it's starting to feel like you are the parent
to your parents?
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Maybe it's always been that way?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah? Is that normal?
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Good question?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Today we're going to unpack parentification and how to recover
when your parents have made you the mediator between them
or put you in charge holding onto their emotional baggage.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I know you're about to drop some gems, so let's
get into it, Okay, Anathasia, I want to start this
from the beginning. Is there even a clinical definition for
being a parent for your parents.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
So what we're talking about here is parentification. So this
is the word I'll be referring back to throughout the podcast.
So parentification is essentially when a child is required to
take on the roles and responsibilities that we would typically
expect a parent to do. So it's the child essentially
(01:47):
being the parent for the parent.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I'm actually really excited about this topic because i don't
know much about this term. I'm only learning about it
now when we were preparing for this.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, and it's more common than you'd think. So there's
a couple of different ways that the parentification can show up,
so it can be practical parentification. So this is when
a child or a teenager is practically required to contribute
to the family and the household in ways that are
beyond what we would expect to be age appropriate for
(02:18):
a kid. Right, So this might be that from a
really young age, maybe like twelve thirteen, the child needs
to get a job and they need to contribute financially
to bills and things like that, or they have to
take on quite a significant role looking after the younger siblings,
or they take a significant role in doing household chores,
and things like that. So there's that practical parentification that
(02:39):
can exist.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Okay, so that's one type.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, So there's the practical and then there's the emotional.
So this presents very differently. This is where the child
is expected to emotionally support the parents, again in ways
that are beyond what we would expect for a kid
of that age. So this might be, for example, you know,
mum's going through a hard time, Mums really struggling with
(03:03):
her mental health, and the child has this responsibility placed
upon it to really be that that emotional support for her,
to listen to her struggles, to validate her, to be
that ear who kind of sits and nods and hears
her out but also sort of provides reassurance and comfort.
So it's where the child takes on that role of
(03:26):
being emotionally the parent to the parent.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
It's a really hard one because as you're talking through it,
my curiosity leans more into what's the difference between you're
wanting to teach your child responsibility versus actually, let my
child just be a child? Yes?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yes, So the difference here is how much we rely
on the child for those things, right, So that's difference
between going, hey, Look, you're a teenager now, it might
be good for you to get a job, earn some money,
do some more chores around the house. Maybe we'll give
you some pocket money, right, And that's with the goal
of building skills for that young person versus relying on them.
(04:07):
We need you to work because you need to contribute
to the bills in this house, or we need you
to do more chores because if you don't do them,
they don't get done in this house.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Right, So it's the difference is the reliance on them.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
So what are the consequences of parentification?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
So there can be a lot of consequences, right.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
So it might be that if you've been a child
who's been parentified, you might grow up suppressing your needs,
right because in the family home you didn't necessarily have
the space to be a kid or the space to
express your emotional needs and really have someone sit down
with you and listen to those. So you might learn
(04:46):
my needs are not as important as others, so I'm
going to push them to the side and focus on
other people. So we get this kind of suppression in adulthood.
So that could be one kind of outcome or consequence
of parentification. It might also be that someone ends up
really stressed. Right, it's a lot of a burden to
carry all these things practically and emotionally that we feel
(05:09):
like we need to do for other people to feel
like we're holding that responsibility. And if we know about
how the brain and the body work, the nervous system,
if it's activated a lot at a young age, if
a child is in a high state of stress when
they're young, that's going to carry through in so many
ways into adulthood.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
One of the other things we.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Might find is that parentification for a kid interferes with
their development. What I mean by this is that the
kid never gets the opportunity to be a kid, right.
They don't get the opportunity to be a teenager and
do the silly things that teenagers do, or go out
to the parties or you know, when they're in their
twenties kind of travel and have fun.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Right, they don't get the.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Opportunities to progress through childhood, teenage, and early adult years
in the way that we would expect, and so they
miss out on some of these key experiences, but key
learnings that come from those experiences. They become an adult
way too fast. And what we can sometimes find is
that later in life there's resentment for that, or there
(06:10):
can be that sense of I never did those things
as a kid or as a teenager, and I want
to go back and do them now.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, And that's a hard place to be too, when
you're in that space of regret.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah. So with parentification, why does it happen.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
So many reasons.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Ultimately, the parents who are caring for that child either
don't have the capacity or they're unable to in some
way be the parents that they need to be themselves.
They don't have the skills, they don't have the knowledge,
They maybe don't realize the best way to kind of
parent their child.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
So we see this.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
A lot in families where there is a parent or
both parents who have mental health concerns and they're struggling
in ways. We see this in families where there's addiction.
So I see this a lot. I work with a
lot of clients who have addictions, and the children end
up being quite parentified. They have to take on a
lot of the roles and responsibilities. They have to get
themselves to school, they have to pack their lunches. From
(07:09):
a very young It might be the case where there's
a lot of sort of family turmoil or divorce that again,
children are required to take on that role of being
the listening ear and the comforter to the parents who
are going through maybe a messy separation. There can be
a lot of different reasons why it can occur, but
rarely is it an intentional thing. It's usually because there's
(07:33):
some sort of chaos, distress, lack of ability, lack of
capacity amongst the parents.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
And it's really interesting too because it gets me reflecting
just more specifically from a South Asian lens, right, because
I think there's this expectation that I've felt in a
lot of my peers where it's like it's expected, like
it's a cultural thing as well. And I guess it's
a bit of an Ikey line, right, because in our
culture it's all around you know, respecting the people that
(08:02):
have walked before you. But then how do you maintain
that sense of independence? So it is it is tricky
to navigate.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yes, it's that difference between you need to learn how
to be responsible, you need to pack your own lunches
for school, But if you didn't pack your lunch, I'm
assuming mum or dad would sneak something into your bag
or be like, Okay, it was one day you learn
your lesson, but let's make sure you pack them from
now on, as opposed to if that young kid doesn't
pack their lunch, they're not eating that week.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, that's very different. So something I am curious about
is the second wave of parentification because the reality is,
you know, our parents are going to get older when naturally,
as their children, going to fall into a caregive a role.
How does one navigate that, especially if they have already
been parentified in the past.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, becoming the parent for your parents when they age.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
And they get old, it's a really tough one.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
And I think it really does require people to reflect
on the relationship they've had with their parents throughout their
life and how they perhaps want to care for them
in those.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Later stages of life as well.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
It really is a balancing act between what do I
need at this point in my life? You know, what
are my priorities and responsibilities, and how can I also
be there for my parents in some way? At times
it might mean setting certain boundaries. We can't do everything
for them at all times, But it's about finding that
balance for yourself that feels right.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
It's funny that you said balance because I feel like
that's a common theme that we find in a lot
of out episodes, because it really is at the end
of the day. Yeah. Absolutely, So something I have been
hearing more and more about, which I'm interested to get
your take on, is parental alienation. What is it? Just
in case for listeners that are tunity and they have
no idea what that is.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, So when we talk about parental alienation, we're talking
about a parent who essentially in some way tries to
turn the child against the other parent. So we see
this in families where there is either high conflict, there
is potential separation and divorce, or again, if we have
a parent maybe who is struggling with their mental health,
(10:10):
be things like trying to control the child's communication with
the other parent, saying really negative things about them, trying
to manipulate their perspective of the other parent, but in
some ways trying to alienate them or damage the bonds
that they have with the other parents. Now, for the
child or the teenager on the receiving end of that,
(10:32):
that can be really confusing because we are taught this
message that our parents are good people, they look after us,
they're there for us. We can go to them with
anything and everything. But if we're suddenly getting a different message,
which is your other parents is not a good person.
Here's all the bad things they do, all the bad
things they've done, and you shouldn't talk to them, that's
(10:54):
very destabilizing for a kid.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Have you seen that dynamic come up in the clinic.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah? Absolutely, And unfortunately when we do see sometimes kind
of messy divorces and separations play out, children can sadly
get caught up in that. So we really have to
kind of work with parents to be like, you know what,
you might have these negative feelings towards your ex partner,
but we really need to make sure that we don't
(11:20):
bring those into the child's relationship with a parent.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
After the break, Doctor Anastasia is going to teach us
how we can start parenting our parents and start setting
healthier boundaries. How do we repair ourselves emotionally from something
like parentification.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
We have to be the parent to our own inner child.
We reparent ourselves right. So we've all got that little Anastasia,
that little Ashani inside of us.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Somewhere we think we know them. But for some of us.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
For some of our listeners, those little versions of themselves
haven't always felt that love and received that love, and
so we can go through this process of what we
call reparenting ourselves. So this is essentially giving that inner
child within us the love, the care, the support, the validation,
the encouragement that perhaps they never got as a child.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
That's so beautiful. Yes, so what does that actually look like?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah? So essentially it's being able to comfort ourselves, love ourselves,
give ourselves the opportunity to meet our own core emotional needs. Now,
when I talk about core emotional needs, I'm talking about
five core needs that we all have as children, as teenagers,
(12:44):
as adults, as older adults. We have these five core
emotional needs. So I'll go through them. First of all,
we all have the need for secure attachment. I need
to feel like I am securely bonded with other people,
that I can have closeness with them and distance with
them and that attachment doesn't break.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Okay, So we need secure attachment.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
We all need to feel like we have the opportunity
for emotional expression and validation. I need to feel like
I can tell the people in my life what I'm
feeling what I'm thinking, how I'm going, and that they
will hear that and validated.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
That's the second one.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Third one, we all have the need for competence, for
a sense of autonomy in the world, for a sense
of identity. I need to feel like I know who
I am and that I feel confident in myself that
I can get through life. Fourth one is we all
have the need for limit setting. We need to be
able to set limits on ourselves. When I go out
(13:45):
into the lunch room, I need to be able to
not eat the whole cake. I need to just be
able to eat one slice of cake. Right, sounds relatable,
the ability to set limits on ourselves. And then lastly,
we all have the need for fun and play and spontaneity.
Right when I pick to this one, I imagine kind
of kids running through the park, giggling, blowing bubbles. That
(14:08):
real like free spirited fun that we can lean into. Okay,
we all have these core emotional needs. Now, what happens
with parentification is that some of these needs, these emotional
needs don't get met. So to go through the process
of reparenting, we need to be able to identify what
didn't I get as a kid. Well, what didn't I
(14:31):
get enough of as a kid? And how can I
give that to myself? So I'm going to take you
through a little bit of a process as to how
we can actually do this.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
We love a good process guide us.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Okay, So first of all, get a picture in your
mind of that younger version of yourself. If I imagine
say little Anastasia, maybe kind of six years old, eight
years old, ten years old, whatever age feels right, Imagine
that younger version of yourself and ask yourself the question,
(15:06):
what did little me not get? What was little meek craving?
What did little me really want? Did I really want
to be seen? Did I really want to be praised?
Did I really want to be hugged and comforted? Did
I really want rest? Did I really want comfid and support?
What did little me need?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Now?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
If you can picture that younger version of you in
your mind, close your eyes, see her, see him, see
that little version of you, and imagine your adult self,
you as you are right now, giving your younger self
what they need. Give them that hug, give them the encouragement,
(15:51):
give them the praise, give them the time to sit
with them and listen to them. Put your arm around them,
tell them they're special, tell them they're worthy, tell them
they're valuable. Whatever it is that little you needed to hear,
tell them that.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I personally love in a child work. But I think
that the question I have is what happens if people
can't access it? Because I've definitely had experiences where, you know,
I'm trying to connect to my little Ashani, she doesn't
want to talk to me because like, what are you
doing here?
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So, yeah, does it take time?
Speaker 4 (16:25):
It takes time.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Sometimes it's about imagining yourself at different ages as well,
So maybe like thirteen year old US versus five year
old US will kind of respond quite differently. And if
it feels really hard to hold that kind of empathy
and compassion for yourself, pull out some photos from when
you were young and look at those baby.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Photos, look at those six year old photos.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Of you, and imagine what little you was feeling the
good and the bad at that point in time, and
lean into using those photos as an aid and a
tool to access those compassionate feelings to.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Your younger self.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
And the other thing I recommend for people sometimes is
if you pull out that photo if you can find
yourself connecting with that younger version of you, and you
can tell her all the things she needs to do here,
write it down in a letter and keep it somewhere,
and even record yourself saying it onto your phone. Sometimes
it can be a bit hard to listen to yourself back,
(17:20):
but in those moments when you're then struggling as an adult,
when you're feeling lonely, when you're feeling like your needs
are not being met, pull out that letter and read
it or listen to the audio recording of it. So again,
in those adult moments, give yourself the love, the care,
the validation, the appreciation that you need.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Oh this is so beautiful and I can imagine being
such a delicate process for people as well. So definitely
try to add a bit of you know, lights and
candles make it a really beautiful experience. I'm all about environments,
so creating that beautiful space for you to step into.
So is this kind of work actually going to help
(18:01):
with breaking cycles? So we don't end up parentifying our
future children if you know, people choose to have children.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Absolutely, you know, like I think a lot of parents
wouldn't necessarily have even known what the term parentification was right,
they wouldn't have had the knowledge that this is not
necessarily the right way to or the best way to
raise a child or to meet their emotional needs. Parenting
has gone through lots of different phases throughout the years
(18:29):
as to what the best way or the right way
to parent is, and a lot of the time parents
may have been thinking, you know, I'm doing the right
thing by my child, teaching them to be responsible and
independent and all that, but maybe it's gone too far.
So absolutely, being able to do this in a work
and reparent ourselves does break the cycle, and it gives
us the insight and education as to how we might
(18:51):
want to then parent our children as well.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
After the shortbreak, we hear from a woman whose mom
keeps asking her for money. Stay with us, Babby.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Hearby, Barby, I'm proving a serious crisis.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Having a crisis.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
We've reached that time in our episode where we answer
a question or dilemma from one of you, our listeners.
This dilemma comes from deeper.
Speaker 5 (19:21):
I'm studying at UNI, juggling part time work just to
cover my rent and food, but my mom constantly asked
me for money, often for her own bills, sometimes just
because she's short.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
I feel guilty saying no, But it's.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Getting harder to manage my own life. I'm trying to
figure out adulthood, build a future, and enjoy some freedom,
but I always feel pulled back. I don't want to
resent her, but I'm exhausted, and I don't have a
lot of money to use on my own life, let
alone hers. How do I set boundaries without feeling like
a terrible daughter. I just want space to grow without
carrying the weight of her world too.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Oh that's so hard.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
This is a tough one. I feel for you deeper.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
It's very hard to find that balance between wanting to
do the right thing or the best thing by your family,
by your parents, but also wanting to prioritize your own
needs as well. So I would recommend, first of all,
recognize your limits. We all have limits, whether they be
emotional limits or whether they're sort of practical resource limits.
(20:19):
We only have so much money, we only have so
much time, we only have so much capacity. So start
off by just really recognizing the limits that you have
and that you can't be everything to mum.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
Reframe that guilt.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
You know, I heard you say you feel like you're
going to be a terrible daughter, right, we want to
just sort of reframe that guilt and be like, you're
not a terrible daughter.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
The fact that you're asking us this question and.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Tuning in and asking for help is one hundred percent
evidence that you are not a bad daughter, and you
are actually trying really hard to figure out how to
navigate a tricky situation. In these situations, I personally don't
think it's all just about setting boundaries, right. I know
we're in a bit of a kind of boundary era
the moment. Everything's a boundary. Yes, boundaries are important, but
(21:08):
sometimes just setting about doesn't actually feel satisfying for a person.
It's about finding the compromise, not just putting the boundary
in place. And so what I might encourage you to
do is perhaps have a conversation with mum and help
her find other avenues to get her needs met. Are
their community organizations, Are their services that can help her
(21:31):
with some of the practical problems and challenges she's facing.
Can she get financial assistance, can she get financial counseling?
And maybe you can help her navigate these services. So
you still feel like you're contributing but you're not necessarily
the one handing over the money, So think about what
alternative ways you can find to still help Mum without
(21:52):
doing it for her.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And I really love that you've given Deeper the emotional
but also really practical advice on how to approach it.
Good luck Deeper. We are cheering you on and you've
got this anaseja when you reiterate the main takeaways from
today's episode.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
First of all, parentification can happen for so many different reasons.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
Second, it can be extremely challenging.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
For a young person or a child to take on
responsibilities for their parents. Third, being parentified as a child
can often mean that the child has some of their
own emotional needs that go unmet. And last of all,
as an adult, you can take steps to reparent you're
in a child through writing a letter, using words of
comfort or visualizations.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
If you have a burning question for us, there are
a few ways to get in touch with us. Links
are in the show notes. If you like this episode,
go back and listen to our Therapy Talk episode from
last season.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't
a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas we present
here should always take into account for personal medical history.
The executive producer of What Are You Happy?
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Is Naima Brown.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Our senior producer is Harlie Blackman.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I'm a Shiny Dante and I'm Doctor Anastasia Heronus. The
names and stories of clients discussed have been changed for
the purpose of maintaining anonymity. If this conversation brought up
any difficult feelings for you, we have links for more
resources in the show notes around the topics we discussed today.
You can also reach out to organizations like Beyond Blue
(23:36):
or Lifeline if you're wanting more immediate support. Tune in
next week as we break down the many ways ADHD
can show up, clear up some of the biggest myths,
and share what to do if you think you might
need to go and get a diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Mama Mia Studios are starred with furniture from Fenton and Benton.
Visit Fenton Andfenton dot com dot AU.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Thank you so much for listening to today's but Are
You Happy?
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Episode.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
We're keen to understand how you're looking after your mental
health these days. There's a survey link in the show notes.
It only takes a few minutes and you'll go in
the draw to win a one thousand.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
Dollar gift voucher. We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Thanks for listening, See you next time.
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma may I acknowledges the traditional owners of the land
and waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
I am a single daughter raising two parents, okay, and
it is so tough raising parents in this generation because
it's like, I understand that you're in your fifties, but
you're not grown. Okay. I need to know you're wherebelt.
I need to know where you're.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
At, poor mother, miya. I'm your host, Ashannie Dante. Welcome
to But Are You Happy? The podcast that asks the
questions you avoiding therapy, and.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I'm doctor Anastagia Hernas, a clinical psychologist passionate about happiness
and mental health.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Are you in that stage of life.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Where it's starting to feel like you are the parent
to your parents?
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Maybe it's always been that way?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah? Is that normal?
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Good question?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Today we're going to unpack parentification and how to recover
when your parents have made you the mediator between them
or put you in charge holding onto their emotional baggage.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I know you're about to drop some gems, so let's
get into it, Okay, Anathasia, I want to start this
from the beginning. Is there even a clinical definition for
being a parent for your parents.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
So what we're talking about here is parentification. So this
is the word I'll be referring back to throughout the podcast.
So parentification is essentially when a child is required to
take on the roles and responsibilities that we would typically
expect a parent to do. So it's the child essentially
(01:47):
being the parent for the parent.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I'm actually really excited about this topic because i don't
know much about this term. I'm only learning about it
now when we were preparing for this.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, and it's more common than you'd think. So there's
a couple of different ways that the parentification can show up,
so it can be practical parentification. So this is when
a child or a teenager is practically required to contribute
to the family and the household in ways that are
beyond what we would expect to be age appropriate for
(02:18):
a kid. Right, So this might be that from a
really young age, maybe like twelve thirteen, the child needs
to get a job and they need to contribute financially
to bills and things like that, or they have to
take on quite a significant role looking after the younger siblings,
or they take a significant role in doing household chores,
and things like that. So there's that practical parentification that
(02:39):
can exist.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Okay, so that's one type.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, So there's the practical and then there's the emotional.
So this presents very differently. This is where the child
is expected to emotionally support the parents, again in ways
that are beyond what we would expect for a kid
of that age. So this might be, for example, you know,
mum's going through a hard time, Mums really struggling with
(03:03):
her mental health, and the child has this responsibility placed
upon it to really be that that emotional support for her,
to listen to her struggles, to validate her, to be
that ear who kind of sits and nods and hears
her out but also sort of provides reassurance and comfort.
So it's where the child takes on that role of
(03:26):
being emotionally the parent to the parent.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
It's a really hard one because as you're talking through it,
my curiosity leans more into what's the difference between you're
wanting to teach your child responsibility versus actually, let my
child just be a child? Yes?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yes, So the difference here is how much we rely
on the child for those things, right, So that's difference
between going, hey, Look, you're a teenager now, it might
be good for you to get a job, earn some money,
do some more chores around the house. Maybe we'll give
you some pocket money, right, And that's with the goal
of building skills for that young person versus relying on them.
(04:07):
We need you to work because you need to contribute
to the bills in this house, or we need you
to do more chores because if you don't do them,
they don't get done in this house.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Right, So it's the difference is the reliance on them.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
So what are the consequences of parentification?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
So there can be a lot of consequences, right.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
So it might be that if you've been a child
who's been parentified, you might grow up suppressing your needs,
right because in the family home you didn't necessarily have
the space to be a kid or the space to
express your emotional needs and really have someone sit down
with you and listen to those. So you might learn
(04:46):
my needs are not as important as others, so I'm
going to push them to the side and focus on
other people. So we get this kind of suppression in adulthood.
So that could be one kind of outcome or consequence
of parentification. It might also be that someone ends up
really stressed. Right, it's a lot of a burden to
carry all these things practically and emotionally that we feel
(05:09):
like we need to do for other people to feel
like we're holding that responsibility. And if we know about
how the brain and the body work, the nervous system,
if it's activated a lot at a young age, if
a child is in a high state of stress when
they're young, that's going to carry through in so many
ways into adulthood.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
One of the other things we.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Might find is that parentification for a kid interferes with
their development. What I mean by this is that the
kid never gets the opportunity to be a kid, right.
They don't get the opportunity to be a teenager and
do the silly things that teenagers do, or go out
to the parties or you know, when they're in their
twenties kind of travel and have fun.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Right, they don't get the.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Opportunities to progress through childhood, teenage, and early adult years
in the way that we would expect, and so they
miss out on some of these key experiences, but key
learnings that come from those experiences. They become an adult
way too fast. And what we can sometimes find is
that later in life there's resentment for that, or there
(06:10):
can be that sense of I never did those things
as a kid or as a teenager, and I want
to go back and do them now.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, And that's a hard place to be too, when
you're in that space of regret.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah. So with parentification, why does it happen.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
So many reasons.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Ultimately, the parents who are caring for that child either
don't have the capacity or they're unable to in some
way be the parents that they need to be themselves.
They don't have the skills, they don't have the knowledge,
They maybe don't realize the best way to kind of
parent their child.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
So we see this.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
A lot in families where there is a parent or
both parents who have mental health concerns and they're struggling
in ways. We see this in families where there's addiction.
So I see this a lot. I work with a
lot of clients who have addictions, and the children end
up being quite parentified. They have to take on a
lot of the roles and responsibilities. They have to get
themselves to school, they have to pack their lunches. From
(07:09):
a very young It might be the case where there's
a lot of sort of family turmoil or divorce that again,
children are required to take on that role of being
the listening ear and the comforter to the parents who
are going through maybe a messy separation. There can be
a lot of different reasons why it can occur, but
rarely is it an intentional thing. It's usually because there's
(07:33):
some sort of chaos, distress, lack of ability, lack of
capacity amongst the parents.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
And it's really interesting too because it gets me reflecting
just more specifically from a South Asian lens, right, because
I think there's this expectation that I've felt in a
lot of my peers where it's like it's expected, like
it's a cultural thing as well. And I guess it's
a bit of an Ikey line, right, because in our
culture it's all around you know, respecting the people that
(08:02):
have walked before you. But then how do you maintain
that sense of independence? So it is it is tricky
to navigate.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yes, it's that difference between you need to learn how
to be responsible, you need to pack your own lunches
for school, But if you didn't pack your lunch, I'm
assuming mum or dad would sneak something into your bag
or be like, Okay, it was one day you learn
your lesson, but let's make sure you pack them from
now on, as opposed to if that young kid doesn't
pack their lunch, they're not eating that week.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, that's very different. So something I am curious about
is the second wave of parentification because the reality is,
you know, our parents are going to get older when naturally,
as their children, going to fall into a caregive a role.
How does one navigate that, especially if they have already
been parentified in the past.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, becoming the parent for your parents when they age.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
And they get old, it's a really tough one.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
And I think it really does require people to reflect
on the relationship they've had with their parents throughout their
life and how they perhaps want to care for them
in those.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Later stages of life as well.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
It really is a balancing act between what do I
need at this point in my life? You know, what
are my priorities and responsibilities, and how can I also
be there for my parents in some way? At times
it might mean setting certain boundaries. We can't do everything
for them at all times, But it's about finding that
balance for yourself that feels right.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
It's funny that you said balance because I feel like
that's a common theme that we find in a lot
of out episodes, because it really is at the end
of the day. Yeah. Absolutely, So something I have been
hearing more and more about, which I'm interested to get
your take on, is parental alienation. What is it? Just
in case for listeners that are tunity and they have
no idea what that is.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, So when we talk about parental alienation, we're talking
about a parent who essentially in some way tries to
turn the child against the other parent. So we see
this in families where there is either high conflict, there
is potential separation and divorce, or again, if we have
a parent maybe who is struggling with their mental health,
(10:10):
be things like trying to control the child's communication with
the other parent, saying really negative things about them, trying
to manipulate their perspective of the other parent, but in
some ways trying to alienate them or damage the bonds
that they have with the other parents. Now, for the
child or the teenager on the receiving end of that,
(10:32):
that can be really confusing because we are taught this
message that our parents are good people, they look after us,
they're there for us. We can go to them with
anything and everything. But if we're suddenly getting a different message,
which is your other parents is not a good person.
Here's all the bad things they do, all the bad
things they've done, and you shouldn't talk to them, that's
(10:54):
very destabilizing for a kid.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Have you seen that dynamic come up in the clinic.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah? Absolutely, And unfortunately when we do see sometimes kind
of messy divorces and separations play out, children can sadly
get caught up in that. So we really have to
kind of work with parents to be like, you know what,
you might have these negative feelings towards your ex partner,
but we really need to make sure that we don't
(11:20):
bring those into the child's relationship with a parent.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
After the break, Doctor Anastasia is going to teach us
how we can start parenting our parents and start setting
healthier boundaries. How do we repair ourselves emotionally from something
like parentification.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
We have to be the parent to our own inner child.
We reparent ourselves right. So we've all got that little Anastasia,
that little Ashani inside of us.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Somewhere we think we know them. But for some of us.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
For some of our listeners, those little versions of themselves
haven't always felt that love and received that love, and
so we can go through this process of what we
call reparenting ourselves. So this is essentially giving that inner
child within us the love, the care, the support, the validation,
the encouragement that perhaps they never got as a child.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
That's so beautiful. Yes, so what does that actually look like?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah? So essentially it's being able to comfort ourselves, love ourselves,
give ourselves the opportunity to meet our own core emotional needs. Now,
when I talk about core emotional needs, I'm talking about
five core needs that we all have as children, as teenagers,
(12:44):
as adults, as older adults. We have these five core
emotional needs. So I'll go through them. First of all,
we all have the need for secure attachment. I need
to feel like I am securely bonded with other people,
that I can have closeness with them and distance with
them and that attachment doesn't break.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Okay, So we need secure attachment.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
We all need to feel like we have the opportunity
for emotional expression and validation. I need to feel like
I can tell the people in my life what I'm
feeling what I'm thinking, how I'm going, and that they
will hear that and validated.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
That's the second one.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Third one, we all have the need for competence, for
a sense of autonomy in the world, for a sense
of identity. I need to feel like I know who
I am and that I feel confident in myself that
I can get through life. Fourth one is we all
have the need for limit setting. We need to be
able to set limits on ourselves. When I go out
(13:45):
into the lunch room, I need to be able to
not eat the whole cake. I need to just be
able to eat one slice of cake. Right, sounds relatable,
the ability to set limits on ourselves. And then lastly,
we all have the need for fun and play and spontaneity.
Right when I pick to this one, I imagine kind
of kids running through the park, giggling, blowing bubbles. That
(14:08):
real like free spirited fun that we can lean into. Okay,
we all have these core emotional needs. Now, what happens
with parentification is that some of these needs, these emotional
needs don't get met. So to go through the process
of reparenting, we need to be able to identify what
didn't I get as a kid. Well, what didn't I
(14:31):
get enough of as a kid? And how can I
give that to myself? So I'm going to take you
through a little bit of a process as to how
we can actually do this.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
We love a good process guide us.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Okay, So first of all, get a picture in your
mind of that younger version of yourself. If I imagine
say little Anastasia, maybe kind of six years old, eight
years old, ten years old, whatever age feels right, Imagine
that younger version of yourself and ask yourself the question,
(15:06):
what did little me not get? What was little meek craving?
What did little me really want? Did I really want
to be seen? Did I really want to be praised?
Did I really want to be hugged and comforted? Did
I really want rest? Did I really want comfid and support?
What did little me need?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Now?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
If you can picture that younger version of you in
your mind, close your eyes, see her, see him, see
that little version of you, and imagine your adult self,
you as you are right now, giving your younger self
what they need. Give them that hug, give them the encouragement,
(15:51):
give them the praise, give them the time to sit
with them and listen to them. Put your arm around them,
tell them they're special, tell them they're worthy, tell them
they're valuable. Whatever it is that little you needed to hear,
tell them that.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I personally love in a child work. But I think
that the question I have is what happens if people
can't access it? Because I've definitely had experiences where, you know,
I'm trying to connect to my little Ashani, she doesn't
want to talk to me because like, what are you
doing here?
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So, yeah, does it take time?
Speaker 4 (16:25):
It takes time.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Sometimes it's about imagining yourself at different ages as well,
So maybe like thirteen year old US versus five year
old US will kind of respond quite differently. And if
it feels really hard to hold that kind of empathy
and compassion for yourself, pull out some photos from when
you were young and look at those baby.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Photos, look at those six year old photos.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Of you, and imagine what little you was feeling the
good and the bad at that point in time, and
lean into using those photos as an aid and a
tool to access those compassionate feelings to.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Your younger self.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
And the other thing I recommend for people sometimes is
if you pull out that photo if you can find
yourself connecting with that younger version of you, and you
can tell her all the things she needs to do here,
write it down in a letter and keep it somewhere,
and even record yourself saying it onto your phone. Sometimes
it can be a bit hard to listen to yourself back,
(17:20):
but in those moments when you're then struggling as an adult,
when you're feeling lonely, when you're feeling like your needs
are not being met, pull out that letter and read
it or listen to the audio recording of it. So again,
in those adult moments, give yourself the love, the care,
the validation, the appreciation that you need.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Oh this is so beautiful and I can imagine being
such a delicate process for people as well. So definitely
try to add a bit of you know, lights and
candles make it a really beautiful experience. I'm all about environments,
so creating that beautiful space for you to step into.
So is this kind of work actually going to help
(18:01):
with breaking cycles? So we don't end up parentifying our
future children if you know, people choose to have children.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Absolutely, you know, like I think a lot of parents
wouldn't necessarily have even known what the term parentification was right,
they wouldn't have had the knowledge that this is not
necessarily the right way to or the best way to
raise a child or to meet their emotional needs. Parenting
has gone through lots of different phases throughout the years
(18:29):
as to what the best way or the right way
to parent is, and a lot of the time parents
may have been thinking, you know, I'm doing the right
thing by my child, teaching them to be responsible and
independent and all that, but maybe it's gone too far.
So absolutely, being able to do this in a work
and reparent ourselves does break the cycle, and it gives
us the insight and education as to how we might
(18:51):
want to then parent our children as well.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
After the shortbreak, we hear from a woman whose mom
keeps asking her for money. Stay with us, Babby.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Hearby, Barby, I'm proving a serious crisis.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Having a crisis.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
We've reached that time in our episode where we answer
a question or dilemma from one of you, our listeners.
This dilemma comes from deeper.
Speaker 5 (19:21):
I'm studying at UNI, juggling part time work just to
cover my rent and food, but my mom constantly asked
me for money, often for her own bills, sometimes just
because she's short.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
I feel guilty saying no, But it's.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Getting harder to manage my own life. I'm trying to
figure out adulthood, build a future, and enjoy some freedom,
but I always feel pulled back. I don't want to
resent her, but I'm exhausted, and I don't have a
lot of money to use on my own life, let
alone hers. How do I set boundaries without feeling like
a terrible daughter. I just want space to grow without
carrying the weight of her world too.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Oh that's so hard.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
This is a tough one. I feel for you deeper.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
It's very hard to find that balance between wanting to
do the right thing or the best thing by your family,
by your parents, but also wanting to prioritize your own
needs as well. So I would recommend, first of all,
recognize your limits. We all have limits, whether they be
emotional limits or whether they're sort of practical resource limits.
(20:19):
We only have so much money, we only have so
much time, we only have so much capacity. So start
off by just really recognizing the limits that you have
and that you can't be everything to mum.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
Reframe that guilt.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
You know, I heard you say you feel like you're
going to be a terrible daughter, right, we want to
just sort of reframe that guilt and be like, you're
not a terrible daughter.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
The fact that you're asking us this question and.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Tuning in and asking for help is one hundred percent
evidence that you are not a bad daughter, and you
are actually trying really hard to figure out how to
navigate a tricky situation. In these situations, I personally don't
think it's all just about setting boundaries, right. I know
we're in a bit of a kind of boundary era
the moment. Everything's a boundary. Yes, boundaries are important, but
(21:08):
sometimes just setting about doesn't actually feel satisfying for a person.
It's about finding the compromise, not just putting the boundary
in place. And so what I might encourage you to
do is perhaps have a conversation with mum and help
her find other avenues to get her needs met. Are
their community organizations, Are their services that can help her
(21:31):
with some of the practical problems and challenges she's facing.
Can she get financial assistance, can she get financial counseling?
And maybe you can help her navigate these services. So
you still feel like you're contributing but you're not necessarily
the one handing over the money, So think about what
alternative ways you can find to still help Mum without
(21:52):
doing it for her.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And I really love that you've given Deeper the emotional
but also really practical advice on how to approach it.
Good luck Deeper. We are cheering you on and you've
got this anaseja when you reiterate the main takeaways from
today's episode.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
First of all, parentification can happen for so many different reasons.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
Second, it can be extremely challenging.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
For a young person or a child to take on
responsibilities for their parents. Third, being parentified as a child
can often mean that the child has some of their
own emotional needs that go unmet. And last of all,
as an adult, you can take steps to reparent you're
in a child through writing a letter, using words of
comfort or visualizations.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
If you have a burning question for us, there are
a few ways to get in touch with us. Links
are in the show notes. If you like this episode,
go back and listen to our Therapy Talk episode from
last season.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't
a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas we present
here should always take into account for personal medical history.
The executive producer of What Are You Happy?
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Is Naima Brown.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Our senior producer is Harlie Blackman.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I'm a Shiny Dante and I'm Doctor Anastasia Heronus. The
names and stories of clients discussed have been changed for
the purpose of maintaining anonymity. If this conversation brought up
any difficult feelings for you, we have links for more
resources in the show notes around the topics we discussed today.
You can also reach out to organizations like Beyond Blue
(23:36):
or Lifeline if you're wanting more immediate support. Tune in
next week as we break down the many ways ADHD
can show up, clear up some of the biggest myths,
and share what to do if you think you might
need to go and get a diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Mama Mia Studios are starred with furniture from Fenton and Benton.
Visit Fenton Andfenton dot com dot AU.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Thank you so much for listening to today's but Are
You Happy?
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Episode.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
We're keen to understand how you're looking after your mental
health these days. There's a survey link in the show notes.
It only takes a few minutes and you'll go in
the draw to win a one thousand.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
Dollar gift voucher. We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Thanks for listening, See you next time.
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