May 22, 2024 • 18 mins
Advanced algebra, balancing books, and complex calculations... don’t you need to be amazing at maths to be an accountant?
This week, we sit down with ACCA members Kyle Simpson and Benjamin Kewin to get the real story on how much maths matters for a career in accountancy. From nearly failing maths class at school to finding the right support during exam season, we find out what it’s like to become an accountant when maths wasn’t always your favourite subject.
Plus, we explore Ben and Kyle’s non-linear paths to ACCA membership – including dropping out of uni – and what they both find are the key skills required to make your career in accounting a success.
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With skills in accountancy and finance, you can work in any business, anywhere, and turn your passion into an exciting and rewarding career with an ACCA qualification. You can sign up to find out more by heading to www.accaglobal.com/beyouanywhere.
To watch the video version of this podcast, head to www.accaglobal.com/byallaccounts.
By All Accounts… is a Fresh Air Production for ACCA. The Senior Producer is Eva Higginbotham, with support from Sarah Moore. The Executive Producer is Annie Day. The videographer is Yohan Forbes and the Sound Engineer is Basil Oxtoby. Bukky Fadipe is the Assistant Producer and Nik Gandhi is the Marketing Manager.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Maiki Lynch (00:01):
Hey there, I'm Maiki Lynch and I'm an accountant. And in this
series from ACCA, I'm sitting down with some other accountants
and people who work in finance to lift the lid
on some of the common myths you might have fallen
for about this awesome career path. This week we are looking at one
of the core questions people tend to have about these jobs. Namely,
(00:22):
isn't accounting and finance basically just maths? Do you need
to be a maths genius? And can you make a career in accounting
without a maths degree? Let's find out. This is By All Accounts. Ah, maths,
for some of us, just the word can send a
(00:42):
shiver down the spine, conjuring memories of school and protractors
and calculators and quadratic equations and worst of all
Then there's the opposite, the people who love maths and
numbers and even have degrees in the subject. But do
you need to be one of these people to progress
in careers that involve some numbers like accounting? For me,
(01:04):
I'm one of those people that has always enjoyed maths.
I found if I really understood what I was trying
to do with practice, I didn't need to remember anything
at all, and that's brilliant. In over 10 years of teaching,
I found it is exactly that practice element that can
get those students who love maths and those who haven't
touched the subject in years to where they need to be,
(01:26):
mathematically speaking, through their accountancy studies. So I found two
people who currently work in accounting and finance to ask,
do you need a maths degree to enjoy these jobs?
First up, Kyle Simpson, welcome.
Kyle Simpson (01:42):
Thank you. Thank you for having me here.
Maiki Lynch (01:42):
And Ben Kewin. Hello.
Ben Kewin (01:42):
Hello. Thanks for having us.
Maiki Lynch (01:44):
So what do you think? Kyle, I'm going to come
to you first. Do you need to be amazing at
maths to work in accounting and finance?
Kyle Simpson (01:50):
I don't think so because I'm just exactly opposite of
amazing at math. If I look back at my school days, I
never liked particularly math. My school grades were kind of
reflective of that, and when I was studying accountancy I
didn't really feel that there was a overall huge area
where you need very technical math skills like plus, minus, multiply, divide.
(02:16):
That's kind of the basic principles I had, but that
got me through all the exams I needed to pass
to be qualified. So I don't really think it's essential
to have extensive maths knowledge to become an accountant.
Maiki Lynch (02:26):
That's really encouraging to hear, particularly for those who perhaps
maths isn't their favorite subject. Ben, can we come to
you with the same question? Do you think you need
to be amazing at maths to work in accounting and finance?
Ben Kewin (02:37):
So I'm quite the opposite to Kyle there of... I was always
into my maths in school. When I started doing my
accounting exams, I always thought that there was quite a
big maths implication on it. I was actually quite upset
by the time I came to qualify, because there's not
really that much complicated maths in there! So I think
that that is very much one of the things that
all the way throughout everyone's always like, " Oh, you've got
to do loads of maths. It's very maths based." You
(02:59):
deal with a lot of numbers, but it's more about
the trends and the patterns and the numbers than it
is with actually messing around with them and doing complicated maths.
Maiki Lynch (03:06):
So coming from a different viewpoint there, but you're kind
of landing in the same place, a similar conclusion that
there isn't too much maths. There is some maths and
it is helpful, but there's, there's not perhaps too much
or as you may have expected going in from the outset. Kyle,
I'd like to come back to you. Can we ask
what your job is?
Kyle Simpson (03:24):
I'm currently working as a finance manager at an all-
through school in Northumberland. I work with one finance officer,
but basically responsible for everything to do with school finance,
financial reporting, all the way to petty cash expense claim,
those more sort of administrative tasks. It just involves day- to-
day school life, plus a bit of technical finance skills
(03:46):
as in when I need to do sort of reportings,
but it also has allowed managerial tasks to run the
scope from business perspective while principals are focused on education
side of it.
Maiki Lynch (03:58):
That's quite a lot of numbers for someone who admitted from the
outset that numbers weren't really their bag, if you will! Do you have
a maths degree?
Kyle Simpson (04:07):
I don't have any degree. Well, actually I dropped out
of high school, which is equivalent secondary school in the UK,
and I took an exam to be equivalent of high
school graduate. So as a formal education, that's my final education.
And in that, the pass mark was 50 for each
subject and maximum score is 100, and on average I
(04:30):
got something like 88. 5 across all subjects, on average.
But there was one subject that brought the score down,
that was math, and I got 50 out of 100 and that was
just literally passing mark. But I managed to start accountancy
training and become qualified two years ago.
Maiki Lynch (04:47):
Congratulations. You were able to start that accountancy training without
having a degree or without having another qualification to get
you there?
Kyle Simpson (04:56):
Yes, there was a slightly different pathway when I started. Effectively,
it's exactly the same training as if you start the
full ACCA qualification. But for those people who didn't have
sort of entry qualification, so effectively, even though it was
slightly different way around, I could start my ACCA journey
without any more formal qualification.
Maiki Lynch (05:17):
I love that and I'm aware of that as well,
that we are one of the professions where you can come in without
having a degree and you can still move through and
get that chartered status, but you build that foundation without
that being a degree or without that being A levels.
Ben, I want to come back to you and just
ask you a very similar question. Can you tell me
about your job? What do you do, where do you work?
Ben Kewin (05:40):
So currently I work at Crowe Isle of Man. I'm
a Client Accountant. So we get books in, do a
lot of debits and credits, lots of bank recs. When
you obviously get your big clients do their bookkeeping as
well on the side. We deal with quite a lot
of trusts, quite a lot of big companies as well.
Most of the stuff that we do is normally Isle
of Man based, which is normally a lot of investments,
(06:00):
but then also there's quite a lot of stuff going
on in the UK.
Maiki Lynch (06:03):
Lovely. You talked about loving maths. Do you have a maths degree? What's your background,
your relationship with maths?
Ben Kewin (06:08):
So I did maths for the maths and physics as my A- levels,
and then when it came to going to uni, I went
to university to do a degree in maths and physics. I
lasted for three weeks and then dropped out of uni.
Then I started as a trainee auditor, did that for
a bit then for multiple reasons, mainly that I wasn't
mature enough to be working, I left. I went to
(06:29):
then go do a second degree. This one was in accountancy,
but it was on the Isle of Man where we
don't have a specific university. We've got a college which
is then linked to the University of Chester. I was
there for a year. Then COVID hit. So from that
I then dropped out of that as well and that's
when I then started doing my ACCA training. So...
Maiki Lynch (06:48):
Wow.
Ben Kewin (06:49):
I've not dropped out of one, but I've dropped out of two
uni degrees and then I've still ended up becoming fully qualified.
Maiki Lynch (06:53):
Okay. So you are fully qualified, you are a chartered accountant as well.
Ben Kewin (06:57):
Yeah.
Maiki Lynch (06:58):
Congratulations. I think that really shows that career paths are
not just linear. They're not just go to university, get
that degree. When you finished, when you got that text
message or that email that said, " You've finished the qualification,
you've passed all of your exams," how did you feel?
Ben Kewin (07:15):
It was brill! It was really nice to know that
you've reached the end and there's a point whereby you
never actually have to do anything again. If you did
want to continue doing more qualifications and everything, you could do,
but it would be entirely your call. However, having that
ACCA stamp after your name just opened so many doors.
Having that means that you are set and you're going
to at least always have a comfortable life and you
(07:37):
never have to really worry about getting a job. It
was a really satisfying text to receive.
Maiki Lynch (07:43):
And I want to come back over here please for me, Kyle,
and just ask you a similar question about when you
got to the end of your studies, how did you feel?
Kyle Simpson (07:50):
I think it took a while for me. I mean
I immediately realized I did pass and it was very exciting,
but to actually feel it in my day- to- day
life it took a while, because at that time I
was juggling a lot of things. I was buying a new house.
My daughter was newly born, moved to Newcastle. At that
(08:14):
time I was working as an IT Auditor at one
of the big four firms, so the work was quite
busy as well. And doing the last professional stage papers
while doing all of that. And it was really probably the most
difficult time of my life. And then I was so relieved,
one side excited, one side, relieved, but at the same
(08:35):
time it's quite hard to believe I finally did it.
So it took me a while for a few weeks,
and then I thought, I looked back and I realized actually
I did pass, everything's done and I've finished. And as Ben said,
I can now do whatever I want to do. It was definitely good, the best
moment of my life.
Maiki Lynch (08:52):
Oh, that's so fantastic to hear. It really is. Just
want to take you to that journey. So you're saying
you're working as an IT auditor, you're moving, you've got
your baby, you've got a lot going on, maths also
in the mix there. How did you find studying for maths,
particularly as you're moving towards the latter stages of the
(09:13):
qualification as someone who didn't have an initial love for maths,
how did you find the maths within your studies?
Kyle Simpson (09:19):
I think if I use the example of our last
stage exams, like the strategic level papers, I see one
was business study and the other was financial reporting. And
I didn't feel like there was a lot of maths
involved in those two. And I feel like the only
paper that really required a bit more advanced maths knowledge
was the advanced financial management. But even then I could
(09:44):
kind of teach myself by searching on Google. It wasn't
like a university level of maths, it was probably somewhere
around the secondary school level of maths. I happen to
not study as far as some other students might have
done because I dropped out of school. So for a
lot of other students it might be still within the
limit of what they studied at school, but even if
(10:05):
it's not, I think it was not that complex enough
that you could just learn as you go.
Maiki Lynch (10:10):
So just touching on some of what you've said there,
what skills do you feel have turned out to be
most important to you working as an accountant?
Kyle Simpson (10:21):
One is professional skepticism. We, I think, hear about this
a lot in audit paper. But I think as an
accountant in this kind of time when the technology is
changing really fast and the business process is changing every
year by year, we see a lot of ways that
we've done things that worked in the past, but maybe
not quite the best way of doing going forward. And
(10:44):
by exercising professional skepticism like this, having mindset of always
double checking are constructively challenging, whether it's the best way
or not, that kind of provide opportunity for development, whether
it's for the accountant like personal development or whether it's
for that workplace, the company. So that's I think one
of the key skills. And in line with that then
(11:06):
if things are changing, if I've asked the question, is it
the best way? If it's not, what's the way forward?
And if we know what's the way forward, then the
adaptability to be able to learn. And I think we
have this requirement for continuing professional development. So in line
with that as well, we need to just constantly accept
the new things so that we are able to utilize
(11:27):
the technologies and different way of doing things that's available
as we progress in our career and year by year.
Maiki Lynch (11:34):
I love to hear an auditor to talk about professional
skepticism. That rings true, and I think auditors will be
very happy to hear that too. And I just want
to ask about your career. Do you feel your career
has turned out as you expected?
Kyle Simpson (11:48):
Yes, in terms of direction, it did. I did have
the idea of studying accountancy and I decided that when
I left Korean Navy I did some navigation sort of
things and that had nothing to do with getting a
job on land. So when I left that job, I
just started from scratch and I met my wife back
in South Korea. So when she wanted to come back here,
(12:09):
I need to decide what am I going to do
to make living? And then I looked at what sort
of things can I do without a degree, without much
saving to start with. And that's where I saw accounting
as the way forward, because I looked at other professions
and quite a few of them had barriers to entry
(12:29):
and accounting was one of the very few that didn't
have barriers to entry. And I also felt that accounting is
kind of a core of any sort of organization, whether if they're profit-
making or not, or government... well without money, nothing really runs.
So to me it gave me the idea that if
I choose to go become an accountant, I can start
as an accountant, and there are so many other pathways that's available.
(12:53):
And whether if it's technical accounting like audit or tax or
some other ways, or more leaning towards management if you are
more interested in that side of business. So I think
I'm heading towards where I wanted to be. I'm still
exploring what's my next step of my career, but it's
(13:15):
going toward the right direction and I'm really happy that
I could do that. The reason why I moved from
more private sector to public sector was as an accountant,
I feel like once you're qualified, we can reasonably have
a financially comfortable starting point as a newly qualified accountant.
So that means that from that point onwards, you could
(13:37):
either choose to do what you are doing at that
sort of newly qualified level or you could go all
the way up. But for me, because I spent so
much time studying, I wanted to kind of adapt into
that level of new life and focus on something that's
a bit more meaningful. So something that I can give back,
(13:57):
which is why I thought possibly going into education sector,
particularly in the public sector and education, that is something
that what I do, I can see what difference I
do make in my workplaces. And also volunteering for this...
ACCA has this early career ambassador, so the promoting thing,
those sort of things, I feel like I can give
(14:19):
something back. So that's why I think it's really good
that I have those choices.
Maiki Lynch (14:28):
It's exciting to hear you talking about the next step. Coming back to you, Ben, has
it turned out as you expected?
Ben Kewin (14:33):
If you asked me when I was 18? No, it's
very different to what I expected. I did expect to go
do a degree in math and physics, then probably go
on, do a master's, potentially a doctorate, go on that
route. Even then when I came back, accountancy was always
my plan B because both my parents were accountants, so
it's in my blood. So it was always something that was
(14:55):
always on the table. And so when I came back in
and started that, but then I was an audit, I'm not
an auditor, I did not enjoy that side of it.
So then even then I still wanted to end up
being an accountant, but I decided to start taking a
different route towards it that then didn't turn out. And
then I started again doing accountancy. But where I was
(15:15):
working, I was essentially training up to end up being
a teacher to then start training people to be accountants
as well. I then didn't like the idea of standing
up in front of a classroom and teaching. So after
I qualified, that's when I then went more into the
private sector and doing people's accounts instead.
Maiki Lynch (15:32):
Working with clients. Lovely. What's your favorite bit?
Ben Kewin (15:34):
My favorite part about everything that I've done is the helping
people side of it. So when I was working at
the place where I qualified, all the students would always
come to us and they'd ask us for help. And
being able to sit down with someone and go, " Right,
I see that you're stressing out about something. Here's the
way that you get around it. This is how we
can help." And being able to put other people at
(15:55):
ease and help people, that's always been my favorite bit
throughout everything. I've always been quite a social person so
that being able to comfort someone and be able to
make someone feel better in themselves, that was always my
favorite side of it.
Maiki Lynch (16:06):
So just to bring it back to the topic of maths, do you think you need a
maths degree to work in accounting and finance?
Ben Kewin (16:14):
Oh, not at all. No. Without a doubt, no.
Maiki Lynch (16:16):
Kyle?
Kyle Simpson (16:16):
Not at all. I agree.
Maiki Lynch (16:16):
No? And if you could give advice to someone who's considering working
in accounting and finance, considering that as their career path,
what would that advice be?
Ben Kewin (16:29):
If it's someone who's in school, I'd say, whilst you
can make sure that you get out there, try and
get some work experience, get a feel for what it's
actually like to do the job, to see how it
is, see if it is something that you like. And
if it is something that you get started on it
as soon as you can. The sooner you start it,
the sooner you finish it, the sooner you finish it,
the sooner that all those doors open up and you
can crack on with the rest of your life, well,
(16:51):
in such a brilliant way.
Maiki Lynch (16:53):
Kyle, any thoughts?
Kyle Simpson (16:55):
Yeah, absolutely agree. I think work experience, the most important
thing to start with, and especially because there are different
pathways available. Where possible, I would encourage younger student to
look out for a lot of pathways that's available, especially
with the graduate scheme or apprenticeship and that sort of
thing. Depending on which area of accounting you start from,
(17:17):
it might take some time to be able to switch
to something else. It's always possible to switch between different
roles in terms of accounting, but it's always better to
know where you're walking into and then know that you'll
be reasonably happy with why you can't 100% tell until
you actually start a job.
Maiki Lynch (17:35):
I think that's such great advice from both of you,
getting that experience and just a bit of exposure to what the
work might entail I think is really key. That's it
from this episode of By All Accounts. Thank you Kyle
and Ben for chatting with me today. For a link
to watch the video version of this podcast, check out
the show notes. With skills in accountancy and finance, you
(17:56):
can work in any business anywhere and turn your passion
into an exciting and rewarding career with an ACCA qualification.
You can sign up to find out more by heading
to accaglobal. com/ beyouanywhere. That link is also in the
show notes. See you next week. I'm Maiki Lynch and
(18:16):
this has been, By All Accounts. By All Accounts is
a Fresh Air Production for ACCA. Its Lead Producer is
Eva Higginbotham and its Executive Producer is Annie Day, with
support from Sarah Moore. Yohan Forbes is the Videographer.
Hey there, I'm Maiki Lynch and I'm an accountant. And in this
series from ACCA, I'm sitting down with some other accountants
and people who work in finance to lift the lid
on some of the common myths you might have fallen
for about this awesome career path. This week we are looking at one
of the core questions people tend to have about these jobs. Namely,
(00:22):
isn't accounting and finance basically just maths? Do you need
to be a maths genius? And can you make a career in accounting
without a maths degree? Let's find out. This is By All Accounts. Ah, maths,
for some of us, just the word can send a
(00:42):
shiver down the spine, conjuring memories of school and protractors
and calculators and quadratic equations and worst of all
Then there's the opposite, the people who love maths and
numbers and even have degrees in the subject. But do
you need to be one of these people to progress
in careers that involve some numbers like accounting? For me,
(01:04):
I'm one of those people that has always enjoyed maths.
I found if I really understood what I was trying
to do with practice, I didn't need to remember anything
at all, and that's brilliant. In over 10 years of teaching,
I found it is exactly that practice element that can
get those students who love maths and those who haven't
touched the subject in years to where they need to be,
(01:26):
mathematically speaking, through their accountancy studies. So I found two
people who currently work in accounting and finance to ask,
do you need a maths degree to enjoy these jobs?
First up, Kyle Simpson, welcome.
Kyle Simpson (01:42):
Thank you. Thank you for having me here.
Maiki Lynch (01:42):
And Ben Kewin. Hello.
Ben Kewin (01:42):
Hello. Thanks for having us.
Maiki Lynch (01:44):
So what do you think? Kyle, I'm going to come
to you first. Do you need to be amazing at
maths to work in accounting and finance?
Kyle Simpson (01:50):
I don't think so because I'm just exactly opposite of
amazing at math. If I look back at my school days, I
never liked particularly math. My school grades were kind of
reflective of that, and when I was studying accountancy I
didn't really feel that there was a overall huge area
where you need very technical math skills like plus, minus, multiply, divide.
(02:16):
That's kind of the basic principles I had, but that
got me through all the exams I needed to pass
to be qualified. So I don't really think it's essential
to have extensive maths knowledge to become an accountant.
Maiki Lynch (02:26):
That's really encouraging to hear, particularly for those who perhaps
maths isn't their favorite subject. Ben, can we come to
you with the same question? Do you think you need
to be amazing at maths to work in accounting and finance?
Ben Kewin (02:37):
So I'm quite the opposite to Kyle there of... I was always
into my maths in school. When I started doing my
accounting exams, I always thought that there was quite a
big maths implication on it. I was actually quite upset
by the time I came to qualify, because there's not
really that much complicated maths in there! So I think
that that is very much one of the things that
all the way throughout everyone's always like, " Oh, you've got
to do loads of maths. It's very maths based." You
(02:59):
deal with a lot of numbers, but it's more about
the trends and the patterns and the numbers than it
is with actually messing around with them and doing complicated maths.
Maiki Lynch (03:06):
So coming from a different viewpoint there, but you're kind
of landing in the same place, a similar conclusion that
there isn't too much maths. There is some maths and
it is helpful, but there's, there's not perhaps too much
or as you may have expected going in from the outset. Kyle,
I'd like to come back to you. Can we ask
what your job is?
Kyle Simpson (03:24):
I'm currently working as a finance manager at an all-
through school in Northumberland. I work with one finance officer,
but basically responsible for everything to do with school finance,
financial reporting, all the way to petty cash expense claim,
those more sort of administrative tasks. It just involves day- to-
day school life, plus a bit of technical finance skills
(03:46):
as in when I need to do sort of reportings,
but it also has allowed managerial tasks to run the
scope from business perspective while principals are focused on education
side of it.
Maiki Lynch (03:58):
That's quite a lot of numbers for someone who admitted from the
outset that numbers weren't really their bag, if you will! Do you have
a maths degree?
Kyle Simpson (04:07):
I don't have any degree. Well, actually I dropped out
of high school, which is equivalent secondary school in the UK,
and I took an exam to be equivalent of high
school graduate. So as a formal education, that's my final education.
And in that, the pass mark was 50 for each
subject and maximum score is 100, and on average I
(04:30):
got something like 88. 5 across all subjects, on average.
But there was one subject that brought the score down,
that was math, and I got 50 out of 100 and that was
just literally passing mark. But I managed to start accountancy
training and become qualified two years ago.
Maiki Lynch (04:47):
Congratulations. You were able to start that accountancy training without
having a degree or without having another qualification to get
you there?
Kyle Simpson (04:56):
Yes, there was a slightly different pathway when I started. Effectively,
it's exactly the same training as if you start the
full ACCA qualification. But for those people who didn't have
sort of entry qualification, so effectively, even though it was
slightly different way around, I could start my ACCA journey
without any more formal qualification.
Maiki Lynch (05:17):
I love that and I'm aware of that as well,
that we are one of the professions where you can come in without
having a degree and you can still move through and
get that chartered status, but you build that foundation without
that being a degree or without that being A levels.
Ben, I want to come back to you and just
ask you a very similar question. Can you tell me
about your job? What do you do, where do you work?
Ben Kewin (05:40):
So currently I work at Crowe Isle of Man. I'm
a Client Accountant. So we get books in, do a
lot of debits and credits, lots of bank recs. When
you obviously get your big clients do their bookkeeping as
well on the side. We deal with quite a lot
of trusts, quite a lot of big companies as well.
Most of the stuff that we do is normally Isle
of Man based, which is normally a lot of investments,
(06:00):
but then also there's quite a lot of stuff going
on in the UK.
Maiki Lynch (06:03):
Lovely. You talked about loving maths. Do you have a maths degree? What's your background,
your relationship with maths?
Ben Kewin (06:08):
So I did maths for the maths and physics as my A- levels,
and then when it came to going to uni, I went
to university to do a degree in maths and physics. I
lasted for three weeks and then dropped out of uni.
Then I started as a trainee auditor, did that for
a bit then for multiple reasons, mainly that I wasn't
mature enough to be working, I left. I went to
(06:29):
then go do a second degree. This one was in accountancy,
but it was on the Isle of Man where we
don't have a specific university. We've got a college which
is then linked to the University of Chester. I was
there for a year. Then COVID hit. So from that
I then dropped out of that as well and that's
when I then started doing my ACCA training. So...
Maiki Lynch (06:48):
Wow.
Ben Kewin (06:49):
I've not dropped out of one, but I've dropped out of two
uni degrees and then I've still ended up becoming fully qualified.
Maiki Lynch (06:53):
Okay. So you are fully qualified, you are a chartered accountant as well.
Ben Kewin (06:57):
Yeah.
Maiki Lynch (06:58):
Congratulations. I think that really shows that career paths are
not just linear. They're not just go to university, get
that degree. When you finished, when you got that text
message or that email that said, " You've finished the qualification,
you've passed all of your exams," how did you feel?
Ben Kewin (07:15):
It was brill! It was really nice to know that
you've reached the end and there's a point whereby you
never actually have to do anything again. If you did
want to continue doing more qualifications and everything, you could do,
but it would be entirely your call. However, having that
ACCA stamp after your name just opened so many doors.
Having that means that you are set and you're going
to at least always have a comfortable life and you
(07:37):
never have to really worry about getting a job. It
was a really satisfying text to receive.
Maiki Lynch (07:43):
And I want to come back over here please for me, Kyle,
and just ask you a similar question about when you
got to the end of your studies, how did you feel?
Kyle Simpson (07:50):
I think it took a while for me. I mean
I immediately realized I did pass and it was very exciting,
but to actually feel it in my day- to- day
life it took a while, because at that time I
was juggling a lot of things. I was buying a new house.
My daughter was newly born, moved to Newcastle. At that
(08:14):
time I was working as an IT Auditor at one
of the big four firms, so the work was quite
busy as well. And doing the last professional stage papers
while doing all of that. And it was really probably the most
difficult time of my life. And then I was so relieved,
one side excited, one side, relieved, but at the same
(08:35):
time it's quite hard to believe I finally did it.
So it took me a while for a few weeks,
and then I thought, I looked back and I realized actually
I did pass, everything's done and I've finished. And as Ben said,
I can now do whatever I want to do. It was definitely good, the best
moment of my life.
Maiki Lynch (08:52):
Oh, that's so fantastic to hear. It really is. Just
want to take you to that journey. So you're saying
you're working as an IT auditor, you're moving, you've got
your baby, you've got a lot going on, maths also
in the mix there. How did you find studying for maths,
particularly as you're moving towards the latter stages of the
(09:13):
qualification as someone who didn't have an initial love for maths,
how did you find the maths within your studies?
Kyle Simpson (09:19):
I think if I use the example of our last
stage exams, like the strategic level papers, I see one
was business study and the other was financial reporting. And
I didn't feel like there was a lot of maths
involved in those two. And I feel like the only
paper that really required a bit more advanced maths knowledge
was the advanced financial management. But even then I could
(09:44):
kind of teach myself by searching on Google. It wasn't
like a university level of maths, it was probably somewhere
around the secondary school level of maths. I happen to
not study as far as some other students might have
done because I dropped out of school. So for a
lot of other students it might be still within the
limit of what they studied at school, but even if
(10:05):
it's not, I think it was not that complex enough
that you could just learn as you go.
Maiki Lynch (10:10):
So just touching on some of what you've said there,
what skills do you feel have turned out to be
most important to you working as an accountant?
Kyle Simpson (10:21):
One is professional skepticism. We, I think, hear about this
a lot in audit paper. But I think as an
accountant in this kind of time when the technology is
changing really fast and the business process is changing every
year by year, we see a lot of ways that
we've done things that worked in the past, but maybe
not quite the best way of doing going forward. And
(10:44):
by exercising professional skepticism like this, having mindset of always
double checking are constructively challenging, whether it's the best way
or not, that kind of provide opportunity for development, whether
it's for the accountant like personal development or whether it's
for that workplace, the company. So that's I think one
of the key skills. And in line with that then
(11:06):
if things are changing, if I've asked the question, is it
the best way? If it's not, what's the way forward?
And if we know what's the way forward, then the
adaptability to be able to learn. And I think we
have this requirement for continuing professional development. So in line
with that as well, we need to just constantly accept
the new things so that we are able to utilize
(11:27):
the technologies and different way of doing things that's available
as we progress in our career and year by year.
Maiki Lynch (11:34):
I love to hear an auditor to talk about professional
skepticism. That rings true, and I think auditors will be
very happy to hear that too. And I just want
to ask about your career. Do you feel your career
has turned out as you expected?
Kyle Simpson (11:48):
Yes, in terms of direction, it did. I did have
the idea of studying accountancy and I decided that when
I left Korean Navy I did some navigation sort of
things and that had nothing to do with getting a
job on land. So when I left that job, I
just started from scratch and I met my wife back
in South Korea. So when she wanted to come back here,
(12:09):
I need to decide what am I going to do
to make living? And then I looked at what sort
of things can I do without a degree, without much
saving to start with. And that's where I saw accounting
as the way forward, because I looked at other professions
and quite a few of them had barriers to entry
(12:29):
and accounting was one of the very few that didn't
have barriers to entry. And I also felt that accounting is
kind of a core of any sort of organization, whether if they're profit-
making or not, or government... well without money, nothing really runs.
So to me it gave me the idea that if
I choose to go become an accountant, I can start
as an accountant, and there are so many other pathways that's available.
(12:53):
And whether if it's technical accounting like audit or tax or
some other ways, or more leaning towards management if you are
more interested in that side of business. So I think
I'm heading towards where I wanted to be. I'm still
exploring what's my next step of my career, but it's
(13:15):
going toward the right direction and I'm really happy that
I could do that. The reason why I moved from
more private sector to public sector was as an accountant,
I feel like once you're qualified, we can reasonably have
a financially comfortable starting point as a newly qualified accountant.
So that means that from that point onwards, you could
(13:37):
either choose to do what you are doing at that
sort of newly qualified level or you could go all
the way up. But for me, because I spent so
much time studying, I wanted to kind of adapt into
that level of new life and focus on something that's
a bit more meaningful. So something that I can give back,
(13:57):
which is why I thought possibly going into education sector,
particularly in the public sector and education, that is something
that what I do, I can see what difference I
do make in my workplaces. And also volunteering for this...
ACCA has this early career ambassador, so the promoting thing,
those sort of things, I feel like I can give
(14:19):
something back. So that's why I think it's really good
that I have those choices.
Maiki Lynch (14:28):
It's exciting to hear you talking about the next step. Coming back to you, Ben, has
it turned out as you expected?
Ben Kewin (14:33):
If you asked me when I was 18? No, it's
very different to what I expected. I did expect to go
do a degree in math and physics, then probably go
on, do a master's, potentially a doctorate, go on that
route. Even then when I came back, accountancy was always
my plan B because both my parents were accountants, so
it's in my blood. So it was always something that was
(14:55):
always on the table. And so when I came back in
and started that, but then I was an audit, I'm not
an auditor, I did not enjoy that side of it.
So then even then I still wanted to end up
being an accountant, but I decided to start taking a
different route towards it that then didn't turn out. And
then I started again doing accountancy. But where I was
(15:15):
working, I was essentially training up to end up being
a teacher to then start training people to be accountants
as well. I then didn't like the idea of standing
up in front of a classroom and teaching. So after
I qualified, that's when I then went more into the
private sector and doing people's accounts instead.
Maiki Lynch (15:32):
Working with clients. Lovely. What's your favorite bit?
Ben Kewin (15:34):
My favorite part about everything that I've done is the helping
people side of it. So when I was working at
the place where I qualified, all the students would always
come to us and they'd ask us for help. And
being able to sit down with someone and go, " Right,
I see that you're stressing out about something. Here's the
way that you get around it. This is how we
can help." And being able to put other people at
(15:55):
ease and help people, that's always been my favorite bit
throughout everything. I've always been quite a social person so
that being able to comfort someone and be able to
make someone feel better in themselves, that was always my
favorite side of it.
Maiki Lynch (16:06):
So just to bring it back to the topic of maths, do you think you need a
maths degree to work in accounting and finance?
Ben Kewin (16:14):
Oh, not at all. No. Without a doubt, no.
Maiki Lynch (16:16):
Kyle?
Kyle Simpson (16:16):
Not at all. I agree.
Maiki Lynch (16:16):
No? And if you could give advice to someone who's considering working
in accounting and finance, considering that as their career path,
what would that advice be?
Ben Kewin (16:29):
If it's someone who's in school, I'd say, whilst you
can make sure that you get out there, try and
get some work experience, get a feel for what it's
actually like to do the job, to see how it
is, see if it is something that you like. And
if it is something that you get started on it
as soon as you can. The sooner you start it,
the sooner you finish it, the sooner you finish it,
the sooner that all those doors open up and you
can crack on with the rest of your life, well,
(16:51):
in such a brilliant way.
Maiki Lynch (16:53):
Kyle, any thoughts?
Kyle Simpson (16:55):
Yeah, absolutely agree. I think work experience, the most important
thing to start with, and especially because there are different
pathways available. Where possible, I would encourage younger student to
look out for a lot of pathways that's available, especially
with the graduate scheme or apprenticeship and that sort of
thing. Depending on which area of accounting you start from,
(17:17):
it might take some time to be able to switch
to something else. It's always possible to switch between different
roles in terms of accounting, but it's always better to
know where you're walking into and then know that you'll
be reasonably happy with why you can't 100% tell until
you actually start a job.
Maiki Lynch (17:35):
I think that's such great advice from both of you,
getting that experience and just a bit of exposure to what the
work might entail I think is really key. That's it
from this episode of By All Accounts. Thank you Kyle
and Ben for chatting with me today. For a link
to watch the video version of this podcast, check out
the show notes. With skills in accountancy and finance, you
(17:56):
can work in any business anywhere and turn your passion
into an exciting and rewarding career with an ACCA qualification.
You can sign up to find out more by heading
to accaglobal. com/ beyouanywhere. That link is also in the
show notes. See you next week. I'm Maiki Lynch and
(18:16):
this has been, By All Accounts. By All Accounts is
a Fresh Air Production for ACCA. Its Lead Producer is
Eva Higginbotham and its Executive Producer is Annie Day, with
support from Sarah Moore. Yohan Forbes is the Videographer.
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