22 Jan 2025

On FOCAL POINT:

• Alan Thorpe, the UK's only registered repairer of Perkins Braillers, and has the largest collection of braille writing machines in the UK. 
• Jo McClure, Entrepreneur; business owner and service provider, shared her life experiences of living with hearing loss and encouraged all to take advantage of free hearing tests. Jo talked about the many options out there to help, and improve one's quality of life. 
• Ben Clare, Chair of the Organising Committee, wrapped up a most successful SPEVI Conference (South Pacific Educators in Vision Impaired) including a day sponsored by Brisbane City Council raising awareness about braille, in its 200th year.
• Michelle Phan, Optometrist from Spec Savers, spoke about myopia, (short sightedness) and some simple and effective tips that may help minimise its impact. 

Resources:

• Audika: https://www.audika.com.au/  
• JM Virtual Business Solutions: https://www.jmvbs.au/
• South Pacific Educators in Vision Impaired: https://www.spevi.net/
• Spec Savers Australia: https://www.specsavers.com.au/ 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

S1 (00:15):
Good evening and Happy New Year. And welcome to Focal
Point here on Australia Radio 1190 7 a.m. in Adelaide,
online at VA, VA Radio Digital in Adelaide and Darwin
through the TuneIn radio app for Australia Radio Adelaide. Your
favourite podcast or streaming service. Peter Greco on behalf of

(00:35):
Philip van der Meer and a big cheerio and happy
birthday to Wendy McDougall listening in saying great to be
here for another year. Thanks so much for your company.
Looking forward to a fabulous year coming up very, very shortly.
We'll catch up with Alan Thorpe, who is the UK's
only registered Perkins Brailler repairer. We'll find out a bit

(00:58):
about Alan and what he does. We'll then catch up
with Joe McClure, who will tell us about her story
regarding hearing loss and the things that you can do
to overcome that and make your life so much better.
Ben Claire will join us wrapping up the Spivey Conference
held last week in Brisbane, the South Pacific educators of
vision impaired. How did that go? We'll find out very,

(01:20):
very soon. And then we'll be joined by Michelle Fang,
who's an optometrist, to talk about myopia and the fact
that particularly your kids can be at risk. And being
a new year, Michelle will have some New Year's resolutions,
things that we can all do to prevent ourselves from
being in that position. If you're listening through 1190 7 a.m.

(01:41):
in Adelaide at 8:00 for your listening pleasure. Lizzie and
Sam are here with studio one. Just before we hear
what's on studio one, a big shout out to all
those taking part in the National Cricket Inclusion Carnival in
Queensland at the moment. Again, the Queensland weather not being
too kind to cricketers. Will they chat more about it
in coming weeks? But that is certainly underway. So more

(02:04):
news to come about that in coming days and weeks.
Happy New year. Lizzie and Sam, hope it's a great
year for you. Let's find out what's on studio one tonight.

S2 (02:17):
We are joined by an old friend of the show,
Matt Levy talks about his retirement from Paralympic sport, what
he has been doing since then, and the two e-books
he has released that cover leadership and inclusion.

S3 (02:29):
Join us at 8:00 for Studio One.

S1 (02:32):
I'm delighted to welcome to the program all the way
from the UK from Sheffield, I think. Indeed. Alan Thorpe
is one of the very few Perkins Braille repair services
in the world. Alan, lovely to meet you. Thanks for
your time. Hello. How did you get into this?

S4 (02:47):
How did. Well, because I've been a Braille user since
the age of 15, and I like tinkering and playing
with with things, finding out how they work. And at
the time I was volunteering for a local blind society.
And when the college closed down, what was teaching? Braille.

(03:09):
Because of cutbacks here, they donated all the machines to
the blind society. So I thought, ah, I've got some
here I can actually play with without wrecking mine. And
then just went on a two day training course from
the Rnib. That was maybe 20 years ago. And then

(03:29):
self taught the rest of it.

S1 (03:31):
Any idea how many might have been through your hands, Helen?

S4 (03:34):
Good question. I service on average about 600 a year.
Some of some of those are repeat because schools want
them servicing. So they're ready for the next intake of kids.
So they do them regularly. But yeah work out from that.
I mean the first year I did it, I did
about 80 or 100, which was say 18, 20 years ago. go,

(03:59):
and it slowly increased and increased and increased. And the
last 5 or 6 years we've been hitting the five
600 mark per year.

S1 (04:08):
Fantastic. I mean, silly question, but is it an easy
thing to service? Uh, we're having a quick chat before
coming to air, and I know that we've had some
people who kind of specialised in this area. So I guess,
as you said, you've kind of, you know, done some
training and a lot of it is sort of learned
by mistake.

S4 (04:28):
Learnt by mistake, having an idea of how mechanical things work. Now,
the thing with the Perkins, you know, we've got the,
the six dot keys. So basically that same action is
repeated six times in slightly different positions. So some, some
of the work is repeated, some of it is quite

(04:51):
difficult to pick up initially. And I've had to find
different ways of doing things with some doing it by
touch and slightly different ways to a sight. A friend
who helped me for a while. But we get there
and they're not. They're not that difficult once you know
your way around them.

S1 (05:08):
Are they dangerous in any way? Is there any sort
of parts inside that could be, you know, either cut
you or. Um, I mean, definitely, obviously they're mechanical, so
you're not going to get electrocuted.

S4 (05:19):
There are some nasty, vicious springs in there where if
you're trying to hook them on the very thin wire
springs with a hook on the end, and if they
get in your finger and you're trying to pull your
finger out and the springs trying to pull you the
other way, yes, it can rip the pads off your

(05:39):
fingers a bit. And the one I use for feeling,
whether the spring is on, is also the same thing
that I actually use for reading Braille. So there might
be a few times when I can't read any braille
for a couple of days.

S1 (05:52):
Oh, that's commitment to the cause, isn't it?

S4 (05:54):
It is. Yes.

S1 (05:55):
What about as far as Where some of the units
come from that you work on the 600 or so
a year. Is it mainly from from within the UK
or do you get some visitors, as it were predominantly UK?

S4 (06:08):
Um, occasionally they do come from overseas, mainly Uganda, Africa
and such like places because some, some people will actually
buy second hand units from me because they say, oh,
my nephew or niece or whatever relative has got one

(06:29):
at home and it doesn't work. So I said, well,
you know, if you want to bring that one back
with you, I'm taking it through their er luggage and,
and different things or shipping whatever they do. Uh, so
occasionally yeah, I'll sell one, it'll go out overseas and
then they, they come back with one. And then next

(06:49):
time another member of the family is going out, they'll
take that one back. Occasionally I get asked about individuals
posting one to me and I say because of the
customs issues we have, it probably is not not that
viable because we have to fill all the forms in

(07:10):
for import and then got to make sure it's exported
back out the country within so long. And then the
sheer cost of shipping from places far away, um, it
would be prohibitive, even if there's the expense of having
them done locally at home might cost more than what

(07:31):
I charge for a service. But in the end, it's
ultimately going to be cheaper.

S1 (07:36):
It's an interesting device, isn't it, because it's so sort
of heavy and sturdy, isn't it? I mean, there's, uh,
it's sort of unforgiving as far as you know, its
sturdiness goes. It's the sort of thing that little kids
can use, but they're probably not around and would carry
it around, I wouldn't think.

S4 (07:52):
Well, one of the comments I say to people is,
never pick a fight with somebody who's blind since being
a child, I suppose because they've got one of these
machines six kilos thereabouts, taking it around from class to class,
around school. They've got muscles, so don't get in the
way of that left or right arm.

S1 (08:14):
That's a it's a great point. I think I read
somewhere they sort of came into being, if you like,
in 1951. In many respects, uh, 20, 25 were kind of, uh,
commemorating 200 years since Braille was, uh, started or sort
of came into the world, if I can put it
that way. The Perkins Braille itself hasn't changed much in
that time. Do you know there.

S4 (08:35):
Has been variations of it? So the the traditional classic
Perkins is still available for purchase these days, perhaps not
made with such quality as they used to be. Um, I, um, cheaper,
softer metals and different bits and just little money saving things. They've. No,

(09:00):
but there was the the next generation, which was the
first of the plastic Perkins and then the smart Brailler,
which was a carry on from the next generation. Both
of which I believe now are not being sold in
the UK just because they're not nice machines, they're not
nice at all. But the traditional classic. Perkins. Yes. 70

(09:27):
years later, uh, they're still still going strong and following
the basic same design.

S1 (09:33):
And you said you read Braille yourself. What? What about
the Refreshable Braille that's come into being, I guess. What,
in the last 30, 35 years or so? Any thoughts
about that?

S4 (09:42):
I do use Refreshable Braille. I started off with Braille
and speak and then moved on to the Braille, uh,
Millennium Braille better light. Yeah I know. Which I loved
and went everywhere with me. But some people might know
with modern things. Now, if it's connected to your phone,
you've got all the problems with signals for some phones,

(10:05):
but even battery life. And then you've got your Braille display,
and then they decide not to talk to each other.
And when they decide not to talk, to talk to
each other, that's the important thing, isn't it? When you're
in a taxi and the taxi driver is saying, so
what's the address or what's the postcode of where you're going?
And oh, it won't connect. So being able to use

(10:26):
a Perkins to have a hard copy piece of paper
in your pocket, which you can quickly get out and
tell the taxi driver where you're going.

S1 (10:34):
Yeah, that's such an important thing, isn't it? You know,
and even if you're just writing little notes for yourself
that you might need throughout the day, it's such a
handy thing. Now you're looking for someone to replace you.
Is that right?

S4 (10:47):
Yes. The media's got a bit of a run on this. Um.

S1 (10:52):
Well, you put the record straight, Alan.

S4 (10:54):
What I said to very different people who I come
into contact, um, saying I'm looking for an apprentice. Somebody
who can take this on. I am the only certified
repair agent in the UK from Perkins. There are a
number of individuals what can do the basic servicing, but

(11:18):
I want to be able to pass on the more
advanced servicing to. People have still got the option of
having their machine repaired. Now, I turned 60 this year.
So thinking about retirement, I'm thinking, what do I have
to put into place? And this and looking at what

(11:41):
I do. And I'm self-employed. So a person potentially wants
to be self-employed, have those skills, be comfortable with all
the government forms we have to fill in, because people
who send me their Perkins, they send notes in Braille

(12:02):
or vice versa. They want the invoice details in Braille,
so that person's perhaps not got to be fluent in braille,
but need to have an understanding of it and things.
I had a gentleman who got in touch and asked
via email that he's profoundly deaf. And again, a lot
of my customers want to talk to me on the phone. Yeah.

(12:24):
So there's all those things, as well as having a
decent amount of space for storage of machines that are
in bits, which are being used for parts or the
new parts, the actual space for doing all the servicing
and things. So it's not just a turn up nine
till five and get your hands It's dirty. It's a

(12:46):
full entrepreneur. Rather than just turning up and working for somebody.

S1 (12:51):
It's your business, isn't it? You've got to be skilled
as far as your, uh, technology or technical skills go,
but you've also got to be, uh, a bit of
a business person or a lot of a business person
as well.

S4 (13:02):
Yes. And I'm not saying that the person who takes
it over has to do it the way I have,
but they've still got to be able to do all
the admin. They've got to be able to log things
and create invoices and have their accounts. And yes, there's
more to it than just fiddling with a screwdriver.

S1 (13:23):
I know you've done a lot of interviews, and I
was thinking to you in an email earlier, it's kind
of great, though, because, you know, with the mainstream media
getting hold of a story like yours, a lot of
people are now much more aware of bras, which I
think has got to be a very positive thing, a very, uh,
awareness raising thing.

S4 (13:41):
It is, and I think that is one good spin off.
What we actually started with this is the we were
celebrating Braille 200 with the Braille Foundation here in England.
And we had a big, big conference a week last
Saturday down halfway down the country from where we are

(14:03):
with loads of potentially 90, 90 plus visually impaired people,
there all came. But what we wanted to run the
story on was not necessarily me wanting to retire. I
also have the largest collection in the UK of Braille
writing machines outside of the Rnib. Okay, so I've got

(14:27):
some 20 plus different styles of Braille writing machines going
back to the late 1800s, quite a few from the
early 1900s, various different variations of things. It also got
a wide selection of slate and stylus strewn hand frames.

(14:50):
So I've probably got the largest collection in the UK
of of that sort of stuff as well, which is
what I wanted to get across as my new story.
Not that I'm wanting an apprentice because I'm getting bombarded
with emails and phone calls and text messages. I want
an apprentice. Blah blah blah. Um, no, I was thinking

(15:13):
I was saying I need to think about an apprentice
for the future. Not at this moment in time, but
it's made me think about it a lot more.

S1 (15:22):
All right, we've got a museum there which might be
worth talking about another time. Alan, we're out of time
this time. But I might get you back, if I may.
I may put in another request to maybe talk a
bit more about, uh, how some of those machines have
changed over the years because I think that could be
a fascinating interview as well. Thank you again so much,
and we wish you well.

S4 (15:41):
No problem. I'm happy to come back anytime.

S1 (15:45):
That's Alan Thorpe there. The UK's only certified air repairer
and servicer of the Perkins Brailler. Let's talk about hearing loss.
And over 3.6 million Australians have hearing loss. Living with it.
Maybe some don't even know that. Let's chat about it

(16:05):
with Jo McClure. Jo, lovely to meet you. Thank you
for your time. Thank you for having.

S5 (16:09):
Me, Peter.

S1 (16:10):
Now, were you having a very successful, fulfilling life? In
a sense. But then you discovered that you had a
hearing loss. Tell us about how that all came about.

S5 (16:18):
It was kind of a shock. I didn't realise how
much of a hearing loss I had. I had a, um,
a regular kind of hearing test a couple of years
ago when I had my eyes tested. Just because, as
you do, they suggest when you're having your eyes done
to have a hearing test. And they identified that maybe

(16:38):
I needed to keep an eye on things going forward
in the future, but that I was fine. So approximately
six months ago, um, I had a number of people
say to me, did you hear me say that? Did
you hear me? Did you hear me? And I was
saying pardon, pardon so much and asking people to repeat
what they said. I do a lot of, uh, business

(17:02):
networking for my business. And I was finding once a
week I'm in a big room of people for bear
and I. And it's there's 100 people plus in the room.
And I was finding that the white noise would actually
just drown everything out. I couldn't hear anybody. I couldn't
hear anything. So I thought, right, okay, it's time to

(17:22):
get serious about this and maybe get my ears tested.
So I went along to Otika, and, um, the results
was surprising.

S1 (17:31):
Surprising in a sense, in a negative sense. But also,
I guess, uh, maybe confirming that there was something not
quite right and there's something you can do about it.

S5 (17:39):
Yeah, absolutely. So there's kind of three levels. You're in
the good range where you don't need anything. Um, you
don't need assistance with anything, and then you've got an
edible range and then you've got the severe loss range.
So I found through, um, this test that I was
in the edible range, and I was only really just

(18:03):
into the edible range, but because of my lifestyle, I'm
always networking. Any functions I go to, I always think
about where we're we're having that function. If I can
hear properly all that kind of thing, it take it
all into consideration. And so I thought, okay, I'll give

(18:24):
those a trial. I'll trial something and see if it
makes any difference. And what I found was an absolute
life changer. In that first week, I went to a
meeting with With 120 people in the room. How I
could hear the people standing next to me. I could
hear the people next to me, next to me, um,
having a conversation. And and it was just joyous. I

(18:47):
was like, oh my goodness, this is fantastic. I also
met up with friends at a pub and I was
able to hear what they were saying. I wasn't saying
yes to absolutely everything and getting myself up, um, agreeing
to all sorts of things. Um, but I was, you know,
I was getting home at night and I wasn't exhausted.
And what I also realised was that I'd have to

(19:10):
concentrate a lot to hear what people were saying. So
I wasn't exhausted at the end of the day because
I'd been concentrating so much more. And I also didn't
have to be looking at someone to hear what they
were saying. And I didn't realise how much I relied
on looking at somebody's face and actually watching their lips
move and obviously lip reading, um, until I didn't have

(19:32):
to do it anymore. And it was just a light
bulb moment and it's changed my life in a good way.
The best way.

S1 (19:41):
I guess it's one of those things that you kind
of don't know what you've lost till it's gone. And also,
you don't know what, um, you know, how things can
be improved until you, you know, go down that path,
as you say, to kind of explore them.

S5 (19:53):
Oh, 100%. It was. Yeah. Eye opening. Uh, and it
means now, like, since since I've gone down this road,
you know, I'm going to more meetings. They're actually more
productive because I can hear everything. I'm not relying on
transcription services online or anything like that. I'm not saying
yes to everything. I'm saying yes to the right things. Um,

(20:15):
I've noticed an increase in my business of 15% just
in a few months. It's been incredible.

S1 (20:23):
You're a little bit in the minority, though, aren't you, Joe?
You said like six months, you know, or, you know,
a couple of years. Six months to a couple of years.
You kind of thought, well, I'd better get this checked out.
A lot of lot of people are probably going through
what you were going through and either, oh, well, that's
just the way it is or not thinking, well, I
could do something about it. So they're kind of suffering
in silence in more ways than one.

S5 (20:43):
Yeah, exactly. And and I guess I've done it kind of.
I'm middle aged, I'll admit to that now. But I've
done it kind of earlier on, I guess than, than
maybe a lot of people would do it and, and
it's actually improved my quality of life. So I'm actually
really pleased that I, I listened to those close to

(21:06):
me saying, I think you need to do something about this. Um,
but also to myself saying, hang on, something's not quite right.
I should be able to hear the person standing next
to me in a room full of people, surely. So
I guess it's about listening to your body, listening to
those around you. There's no shame. There's no, um. I
think people have this this feeling of, oh, you know,

(21:29):
I don't want to have to get anything. Like, we all.

S6 (21:31):
Have.

S5 (21:32):
Glasses these days like it's the norm. So there's nothing
different than that. And, um, I think, you know, I
did myself a favor 100% by, by going ahead and,
and addressing this issue.

S1 (21:47):
I guess, in terms of the assistance that's available, the
edible things that are available out there, there's so much
more discreet and obviously, you know, can be more tailored
to the individual and just so much more effective than
20 or 30 or 50 years ago.

S5 (21:59):
Absolutely. 100%. Um, you know, with technological advancements these days
and I and there's there's all sorts of things. Yes.

S1 (22:08):
What caused your hearing loss to happen so quickly or
relatively quickly compared to, I guess you say, your middle
age rather than sometimes older people, tend to lose hearing
on a gradual basis. Was there anything in particular that
happened to you, do you think?

S5 (22:22):
I don't know I don't know that I'm I don't
know that I've been any different than any other child
and adolescent and and young adult where I like to
go to live music to concerts. I always had my
stereo turned up full blast. Um, I think everybody's done that.
I don't see myself as anything different, as as anything

(22:45):
different out of the norm. I just think that it's
it's potentially maybe something that in my genetics, I might
have been susceptible to. Yeah. Earlier on in life. That's
the only thing I can put it down to. I
didn't have an accident or an incident where it would
have affected my hearing so much. So, yeah, there wasn't

(23:08):
there wasn't any one thing that I can attribute that to. No. And, Joe.

S1 (23:12):
You're an entrepreneur, a business person also very much involved
at community level. I guess these are all things that
we think, oh, Joe, she's pretty cool. She's doing very
well for herself. But yeah, it's a thing like being
able to, as you say, hear what's going on, be
able to hear the people around you. It's kind of
quality of quality of life that makes it so much better,
so much more fulfilling.

S5 (23:32):
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. It's, um. People don't know what goes
on behind closed doors. You put up this front and and,
you know, you look fabulous to the rest of the world, but,
you know, everyone's got something going on behind, behind the scenes. And, um,
for me, it was my hearing journey.

S1 (23:51):
I try to think about what you said a little
bit earlier, Joe, is that you kind of almost taught
yourself to lip read, because I guess it's lip read
slash body language, but would that be kind of fair
to sum it up like that?

S5 (24:01):
Oh, 100%. Yes. Yeah, definitely. You know, people can be
smiling and saying something and it doesn't quite click. But
then you look at the way they're standing and what
have you and it all comes into play. And I
guess being a business owner are very intuitive. And I
do rely on, on, you know, body language as well.
So yes, absolutely.

S1 (24:22):
And those two, those skills still stay with you. You
kind of almost learnt it by your default or because
you kind of had to, but I guess once you
develop them, it's kind of the old muscle memory or,
you know, the brain is kind of tuned into that
way of thinking or that way of sort of comprehending.

S5 (24:37):
Yes, absolutely. I think it's a skill set that, that
I will keep using going forward. Yeah, it's definitely something
that I think I just got that I've got that
in my bag of tools and I'll, I'll utilize them
where required. Yeah.

S1 (24:52):
They were having a little bit of a chat earlier today.
You've got a very interesting, uh, website and a very
interesting name for your website. Tell us a bit about that.

S7 (24:59):
Oh, Jane is a virtual business services. Yes. How'd that
come about?

S5 (25:04):
Um, so. Oh, just over seven years ago now, uh,
two days ago was our seventh birthday. Oh. Thank you.
I launched my business. I started off as an Australian
based virtual assistant. Um, I was doing my MBA, and
I was just helping, uh, local businesses in the west
of Melbourne. Just with anything. Admin. Um, and that just

(25:28):
really quickly grew once I joined BMI and it's become
quite the thing we do virtual reception, uh, virtual assistance
and we do systems implementations where Zoho One Partners, Monday.com partners,
Shopify partners. So it's just grown into a bigger beast.
There's um, a staff of six at the moment. And, uh, yeah,

(25:50):
we we're kind of end to end. Um, and I
can get on the phones now and answer calls, which
is great. I used to, uh, hate doing that when
I couldn't hear people properly. So the the business itself
has has grown and survived the Covid times and what
have you. Um, yeah. It's great.

S1 (26:09):
And in terms of, uh, what you the services you provide.
I mean, they're so important to other sort of fledgling
businesses or indeed, I guess, any sort of business as well.
And I guess the fact that you've got that lived
experience of, uh, you know, starting a business and doing
it successfully is, you know, there's something that is very
important as well.

S5 (26:26):
Oh, 100%. Yeah. Like I do, I help a lot
of people just starting out. You know, we get them
set up with all the basics, and I just hold
their hands because you don't know what you don't know
when you're first starting a business. And it's very hard
to navigate, uh, and get it right. And I made
a lot of mistakes as a business owner and entrepreneur.

(26:48):
We all do. But if I can help someone by
sharing my experiences and, you know, leading them in a
different direction that I found works better then, you know,
I get so much satisfaction out of that. But we
also work with well established businesses, um, looking to implement
new systems, uh, or refine their current systems that they've

(27:11):
got processes. We do overflow admin work so we can support,
you know, big companies. Our niche is kind of small
to medium enterprise, but it can go to much bigger. Yes.

S1 (27:24):
For example, we hear so much about people struggling to
find a good, reliable support in all sorts of areas
so you can provide that. Give your website a plug.
In fact, we'll do that in a second. But I
guess your principal message to Australia is the fact that,
you know, places like Autechre, they provide free hearing tests,
don't they? So if you or maybe one of your
family members is perhaps saying pardon a bit too often,

(27:47):
maybe sort of point them in the direction of the
Autechre website?

S5 (27:50):
Absolutely, absolutely. I can't I can't tell you how wonderful
Autechre were. From the moment I walked in there, I
felt welcomed. They took me through every step of the way,
held my hand. Um, were so gentle and caring. I,
I had the most wonderful customer journey with them. Terrific.

S1 (28:08):
And of course, the ICA will put the information up
about them on our show notes with other stuff about
the programme. And also give us give your website a plug.
I love the the sort of unique ish kind of
a title for the home page. Give us that address.

S7 (28:25):
Thank you.

S5 (28:25):
It's WW wj mvs dot o u. So that's us
JM Virtual Business services. And yeah we love to we
love to talk to new businesses or people thinking about
even starting a business. Anybody? I'm always up for a
chat now.

S1 (28:44):
Okay. Thank you. Talk to me, talk to me. You
talk to anyone? Joe, congratulations. Seven years is a wonderful
achievement in its own right. You're helping out other people.
So keep up the good work. And thank you for
sharing such a personal and also very powerful story with us.
And hopefully if it helps one person, we've certainly, you know,
made a made a difference which is great.

S7 (29:01):
Absolutely. Thank you so much Peter. It's been a pleasure.

S1 (29:04):
So do you have a clue? They're sharing her story
about hearing loss and there's something you can do about it.
So contact the ICA or the information up with our
show notes. You're listening to.

S7 (29:17):
Focal Point on Vision Australia radio.

S1 (29:19):
On VR radio.

S7 (29:20):
Digital and online at WVA radio. Org.

S1 (29:23):
Hope you're enjoying the program. If you're a regular listener
to the program. Late last year we caught up with
Ben Clare, who previewed the conference's South Pacific Adventure Caters
for vision impaired. It was happening in Brisbane. Let's find
out how it went. Ben welcome back.

S7 (29:41):
Oh, thank you so much. It's great to be back.
And thank you for your ongoing interest. It's brilliant.

S1 (29:47):
Great. How'd it.

S7 (29:48):
Go? Absolutely fabulous. It was a really great gathering of
so many people involved in the education of people with
vision impairment. It was a very, very great success due
to a lot of people working very hard behind the
scenes to bring it together. And then, yeah, all our

(30:08):
wonderful presenters and contributors really, you know, topped it off. Brilliant.
Couple of days. Absolutely brilliant. Fantastic.

S1 (30:15):
In terms of representation, of course, the South Pacific. Can
we get a good sprinkling of people from outside Australia?

S7 (30:21):
Uh, look we did. We got four people came from
the from the Pacific Islands. We had three people from
Fiji and one from Tuvalu. So it was wonderful that
they were able to make their way to Australia for
the conference. And they, you know, really great contributors to
the event. So it was great to have our Pacific
Island friends. We also had people from the Solomon Islands

(30:45):
joining remotely, um, which was brilliant. It was great to have, uh,
to make use of online technology to involve all people
from the Pacific. Uh, they did a presentation also and
joined the conference. So it was wonderful to have Pacific friends.
And of course, we had our friends from New Zealand
who came, which was excellent. And because our conference was

(31:08):
online as well, we had a participation and, you know,
and attendees from, from many other countries around the world.
So it was great. It was a truly international event.

S1 (31:21):
What about from a personal point of view, Ben highlights
what's kind of stood out for you.

S7 (31:25):
Oh, so many highlights. Yeah. Look, the presentations were absolutely brilliant.
We had over 70, uh, presentations, various contributors covering a
whole range of topics from sonification, which is really interesting,
cutting edge research. And of course, we had our keynote speakers,

(31:49):
all of whom had lived experience with vision impairments. So
that was a first. And I think it was a
big success. We had, uh, three people with vision impairment
who were our keynote speakers, um, including myself. So it
was a great honour to be presenting as a keynote
at the conference. Um, but all of our keynote speakers

(32:10):
were just amazing along with our presenters. So I think
that's a highlight, of course, heavy is well known for
its social events, and we certainly lived up to that
reputation this year. We had some amazing events.

S1 (32:24):
Actually. Ben, it's interesting you say that about the keynote
speakers and their lived experience. I mean, that's a very
powerful message that's being sent, isn't it?

S7 (32:32):
Look, I think it is. And I think that we,
you know, the success of that, you know, there was
a lot of very powerful messages in the presentations as
our keynote speakers, Michael Shepherd, Chantal Griffiths and myself really
told our life stories. And, you know, and really, you know,
took people on our, on our journey, um, educational and otherwise, um, and,

(32:56):
you know, and achievements that were made throughout, I guess,
our lives as blind people. It was it was, I think,
a powerful message to the audience. And as well as that,
we had a group of young volunteers, um, all of
who also have lived experience with vision impairment, who were
essentially activists, and they were assisting conference goers with information.

(33:21):
A lot of them participated, telling their stories also. And
finally as well, um, we had a, um, a panel
discussion which involved in the access, among other, uh, stakeholders
and of course, young people with disability. So we had
two separate discussions. One was around, um, the possible impact

(33:42):
of multiline braille displays. So that was on education with
our technology panel. And the other one was around lived
experience of young people with visual impairment. And that was
really powerful to we had some excellent speakers, young people,
and it really injected so much into that conference. I
think a lot of people were very excited.

S1 (34:04):
I actually got an email from a young volunteer that
attended after we spoke, uh, Ben. And he was very,
very pleased about the fact that he was able to
do so. He is a person with a vision impairment.
I won't disclose him because he didn't say to do it.
So I know that he was very, very pleased about
the fact that he got a chance to experience an
event like that and the access that, curiously enough, I

(34:24):
was actually a phone hook up during the holiday period
and people were making the point, look, this, this, this
thing or this movement, this software is probably better known
outside Australia than in Australia. And of course, it's sort
of a an Australian invention in quite. So that's kind
of an interesting observation, isn't it?

S7 (34:42):
It is an interesting observation. And of course, in the,
in the access, um, with the software program, Nvda really
is enabling people from developing countries and of course, developers
to access high quality screen reading technology without having to
pay for it. And of course, you know, that's nothing

(35:03):
against the established providers who do provide wonderful products that
that are, um, you know, that There are subscription based
or paid for, but it is great to have that
alternative and um, and a high quality alternative to, as
I was saying, you know, and access, along with a
lot of our, um, or all of our sponsors and our, um,

(35:26):
exhibitors and that really, really did contribute to our conference and,
and show what they're doing in, in the technology and
other spaces. That was not only was it a great
opportunity for people to show their research, um, and for
networking opportunities, but also for technology organizations to show what's

(35:48):
happening in with their particular products. So we had, you know,
a lot of the major players at the conference, of course,
including Nvidia, Nvax, quantum Humanware and Tronics among them. So
it was just wonderful to to have everyone together and, um,
sharing lots of information. Great, great, great opportunity.

S1 (36:09):
That multiline braille display. I mean, it's, I don't know,
maybe 30, maybe more than 30 years ago since that
kind of single line refreshable braille display came into being.
And that multi line, I mean, great, just to read Braille,
but the opportunities in terms of graphics etc. is just enormous.
And particularly for young kids. I mean, you were talking
about educating those with a vision impairment for those young

(36:29):
kids kind of growing up, if you like, with a
multi-line braille display, uh, you know, at their fingertips. I mean,
what an enormous opportunity for employment and other things as
far as the future goes.

S7 (36:41):
Oh, absolutely. And I think what's so pleasing about this, too,
is that it's the development of new technology such as
this is still is really making Braille more relevant than ever.
I mean, you know, you know, it's 202 hundred Braille
and it's as relevant today as it was then. You know,

(37:01):
it's just that they're using different ways of presenting it.
And I think that's great. And of course, these these
new multi-line braille displays will open the way for tactile
graphics and and mathematics content, which is difficult to display
if not impossible, on single line braille displays. So this
was one of the things that did come up in

(37:22):
our technology panel was, was this wonderful advantage that they
will be that they will bring. And um, so that
that was rather exciting. And of course, you know, keeping
with our 200th anniversary of Braille. Our little conference coda,
the sort of end of our conference, we had a
celebration in Post Office Square in the middle of Brisbane, or, um,

(37:46):
empowered Braille event, as it was called, sponsored by Brisbane
City Council. The wonderful opportunity. Again, we had a great
turnout and it was great to show the public a
lot about Braille. We had a lot of displays there, um,
you know, Braille displays, Braille machines, that sort of thing.
And we were entertained as throughout the week by the

(38:08):
Dotted Beats music groups. Um, people with visual impairment. Again
that lived experience. Um, playing amazing music not only at
the Braille event, which was amazing, but also during our
other social events, which was the Australian premiere screening of
the possibilities documentary, which was made by the American Foundation

(38:29):
for the blind. And on the Tuesday night, we had
a river cruise and the the weather, which was predicted
to be rather wet and stormy. Actually, it was very,
very good throughout the whole week. So we were able
to go ahead with all of our social events to
without any sort of disruption, which was great.

S1 (38:49):
So Brisbane weather behaved itself just a little bit more
about that, uh, event on the Thursday then, and how
wonderful that a big sort of mainstream organisation like Brisbane
City Council gets behind something like this.

S7 (39:01):
Oh look isn't it. We were so impressed by that.
And I think how we framed it, I think was
was rather clever too, with Brisbane hosting the 2032 Olympic
Games as well as the Olympics. It's a great way
to sort of introduce the public in Brisbane to accessibility
and the fact that in 2032, we hope that there'll

(39:24):
be lots of rail around the city for the Paralympic Games.
And it's a great, you know, um, you know, we
could sort of say, well, Brisbane is hosting the Paralympic
Games in 2032. Um, but it's also played host to
this conference and this empowered rail event. So I think
it was a really great, you know, tagline that really

(39:45):
worked for Brisbane City Council. And it's great to for
them to get behind it. So that was that was excellent.
You know. And you know them and all of our
other sponsors and contributors. And there's just so many people
involved in that. I couldn't I couldn't thank them all.
But um, personally, but as a whole, Everyone contributed to

(40:06):
what was a wonderful couple of days and um, and yeah,
really furthering the education sector and, and so many other
areas that were explored during the conference.

S1 (40:18):
Great. That is such a great point about kind of
putting Braille and accessibility out there in the mainstream, because
I guess I often say, you know, those are just
that kind of live in the echo chamber or speak
in the echo chamber. We kind of think, well, of
course this is important. Of course everyone knows about it,
but we can't expect everyone to know everything about everything.
And it's events like this that kind of just raise

(40:38):
that awareness. And even if that subliminal message gets out there,
you know, early 2025, who knows what sort of message
that can carry on to for the next, uh, seven
plus years and beyond. Of course.

S7 (40:50):
Oh, look. Absolutely. And it was and it was something
that was positively received. And I think that people are
very curious, um, about about Braille. And I think that
we need more of these sorts of sorts of events
to really introduce people to the Braille code, even if
they're not going to actually use it. It's great knowledge
to have. And, um, I think, you know, our event

(41:13):
in Brisbane was a great you know, it was a
great event. It was very successful. And and I hope
that there's more of them, um, moving forward.

S1 (41:22):
Now, Ben, Phoebe's got a website, so I guess a
bit more information can be gained from there. Also, uh,
any news regarding what happens next as far as TV goes?

S7 (41:32):
Yeah. So I think there's a very bright future for Spivey.
I think that, um, you know, we have two wonderful
co-presidents of Spivey Australia and, and co-presidents of New Zealand
working together to really further, you know, the education of
people with visual impairment. And now, of course, we have

(41:52):
so many people with lived experience, you know, involved in
in our association, we have lots of people from the
Pacific and around the world. So our website is is
dot net. Lots of information on there throughout this year. Um,
and we've been doing this for a little while now.
We do have our communities of practice. So we actually

(42:14):
do have online webinars and um, which are quite participatory,
you know, really concerning various areas around education, people with
visual impairment. So for example, we have parents support groups,
we have a deafblind advocacy group. Um, so for people
that are working in that sector and for people who

(42:36):
are deafblind and there are others as well, we've had um,
symposia before. So we're looking at doing more of those.
So look, I think it's a very bright future for Spivey.
And I think that, um, the fact that this conference
was such a big success really does, you know, show
that it's in good hands moving forward. I think so, um, yeah.

(42:58):
Good times ahead. And of course anyone can join scabby
and who has an interest. We have membership categories to,
you know, from associate members right through to a specialist
teacher category. So if people are qualified as, as teachers,
they can join, uh, Pacific Islanders, of course. Um, but
we do take membership from all around the world. So, um,

(43:21):
all the details are on our website. Yes. Great.

S1 (43:25):
Great to catch up again, Ben.

S7 (43:27):
Wonderful. And thank you again so much. Always great to
be on your show.

S1 (43:31):
And Claire there, who was one of the conveners for the, uh,
the conference held earlier this year. Very, very successful. And, uh,
we'll put those details on our show notes. Well, our
children are being encouraged to, uh, take up some green
and give up some screen. Let's find out a bit
more about it. And from Specsavers, let's speak to Michelle Phan. Michelle,

(43:52):
lovely to meet you. Thank you for your time.

S8 (43:54):
Thank you for having me.

S1 (43:55):
Why are you suggesting that kids to get a bit
more green in their life and a little less green.

S8 (44:01):
Because we've done some research and we found that nearly
three quarters or 73% of kids are actually not following
the World Health Organization guidelines, which is spending about two
hours a day of outdoor time. Instead, they're spending time
in front of screens that could be watching TV or tablets,
you know, spending time playing computer games. And that really

(44:22):
results in the increase of myopia or short sightedness in
their vision.

S1 (44:26):
This might be something that is easy to diagnose and
be for, say, parents to notice.

S8 (44:32):
Yes. Look, it's easy to diagnose with an optometrist if
you take your child in for an eye test, but
there are definitely some signs that parents can notice as well.
For example, if you notice your child squinting, especially if
they're looking at far away things, they might complain of headaches.
But some children, they might simply just deal with what
they have because they think that what they're seeing is

(44:54):
what everyone else sees. So, for example, if they can't
see the board at school, they'll just copy off their friend.
Or if they can't see the TV, they might just
simply walk closer to the TV. So a lot of
the time we do have to be vigilant, and we
do have to get into the routine of regular eye
testing to know.

S1 (45:08):
That is such a great point. I don't want to
get too much into the long grass, as it were,
but it's incredible how often you speak to someone that
has a condition, doesn't matter what it is, and then
for no good reason, they get it looked at and fixed.
They said. I thought everyone was like me before this.
They don't kind of realize that there kind of is
a better way.

S8 (45:27):
Exactly, exactly. And a lot of the time when I
have parents bring their children in and, and they're also
a little bit sort of dumbfounded that they didn't realize
this was happening. And it's not the parent's fault. But,
you know, sometimes some children are just not in the
in the habit of reporting everything they notice.

S1 (45:46):
They said about 73% of children in the survey you did,
but are some more prone than others to develop this,
you know, kind of deep, regardless of how much time
they spend watching a screen or looking at a screen.

S8 (45:59):
Yeah. Look, definitely there are some genetic factors that play
into it which we can't control. So children that come
from parents that are both short sighted are definitely more prone,
as well as have siblings that are short sighted. But
I think there is a, you know, a nature versus
nurture to this. So, you know, if we're spending a

(46:19):
lot of time on screens, our children are naturally going
to copy us and do the same things as well.
And so a lot of these practices that optometrists encourage
is all about trying to spend more time outdoors. And, and,
you know, the parents also have to be part of
this as well, so that the kids can, can be, um,
you know, encouraged to do the same thing.

S1 (46:39):
Yeah. Great point. So what kind of happens when kids
spend more time outdoors. And it is kind of looking
into the distance part of that. It's not just kind
of being outdoors, but where your eyes are focusing. Is
that part of it?

S8 (46:51):
Yes, absolutely. So when they are outdoors, there's two components.
One is just natural light, something about the natural light.
It regulates the release of dopamine in the retina. And
this is a neurotransmitter that has a critical role in
controlling the growth of the eyeball, or prevent it from
growing to be short sighted. And we can see this
in studies all across the world where in the summer months,

(47:13):
the kids eyes tend to be more stable, and in
the winter months they do tend to worsen quicker. But
like you say, definitely when we're outside, we're less likely
to be staring up close on our phones or our devices.
We're more likely to be, you know, staring across the
football field or, you know, riding our bike at the park.

S1 (47:30):
I guess that's a good point you make, though, isn't it?
Like so it's getting outside, but not necessarily with your
tablet or phone?

S8 (47:36):
Yes for sure. If you if you have to be
on your phone, I suppose, try and do it outside
under some shade.

S1 (47:42):
Oh, that's a good point. So and I guess is
it kind of a bit of a bigger picture as well?
I mean, you know, the fresh air the, the vitamin
D obviously, you know, in moderation or sunlight in moderation
is a kind of the kind of bigger picture as well.

S8 (47:56):
Yes, definitely. We can see that before the age of technology,
less kids were in glasses, less kids had visual problems.
But now we live in an age of technology. We
can't control that. So we kind of just have to
change our lifestyle to some degree and work with what
we've got. So, for example, you know, if we have
to be on screens, are we managing that screen time?

(48:17):
Are we trying to take regular breaks, for example? Usually
my recommendation is to follow what we call the 20
2020 rule. And essentially that means every 20 minutes we
take a 22nd break and we look at something that's
20m away. And effectively that just means stare out the window,
look at leaves on trees, and blink for about 20s.
And that just gives our eyes that little bit of

(48:37):
a break before we continue on with whatever task that
we're doing.

S1 (48:41):
A cool idea, I mean, it's not odorous, isn't it?
I mean, you know, but, uh, you know, sort of
take a break for 20s or so, it's probably going
to be good for you or the other part of you.
Other parts of your brain as well?

S8 (48:53):
Absolutely, absolutely. And I give the same recommendation for office workers.
You know, these people are spending ten, 12 hours a
day in front of their computer screens. If they just
look out the window for those 20s and look at
faraway distances, they're more likely to be able to be
more productive anyhow.

S1 (49:08):
Yeah. Great point. All right. Well, you're having a go
at parents and grandparents employers. Yeah, yeah. You're putting everyone
in your sights and pardon the pun. Well, what about
as far as the age that, you know, kids are
kind of more vulnerable. Is there such a thing? And,
I mean, can you kind of grow out of it?
We talk about the treatment in a second, but is

(49:30):
there an age where maybe kids have to be more
careful or, you know, parents have to be more careful
with their kids?

S8 (49:35):
Yeah, definitely. There is. Good question. So a lot of
the studies for for childhood myopia is in that 6
to 12 year old range. But we can see that
essentially in their growing years is when the eyeballs are
more likely to grow. So if you think about how
your child goes through clothes very quickly, their eyeballs can
change very quickly as well. I've seen some children where,

(49:57):
you know, in December they have perfect eyesight. Christmas they
get a tablet and then come March they're in glasses
so it can happen real quickly. And so usually, you know,
in those kind of growing years in the in the
schooling years, I would usually recommend kids have an eye
test at least once a year, even if there's no
real concerns or symptoms that they report. But once they

(50:20):
finish their growing years, I think, you know, from about
18 and beyond, I'm happy to see them once every
couple years.

S1 (50:26):
And what about, uh, kind of assessment in terms of
males and females, any sort of differentiation in that sort of, uh, context?

S8 (50:35):
No. Not really, no. But it's more to do with,
like I said, how much time they spend doing up close. And,
you know, a lot of that is to do with
screen time. But even if it's things like, you know,
reading a book, If they're in a good book for
four hours, they're more likely to develop myopia as well.

S1 (50:51):
Okay, so a paperback or a hard copy that that's
kind of no, uh, no relief there as far as
that goes. It doesn't just have to be a screen.

S8 (51:00):
Correct. That's right. A lot of it is just to
do with how close that task is.

S1 (51:04):
And what about in terms of correction glasses or surgery?
If things get really bad or, you know, kind of
you have to kind of learn to live with it
if it's sort of past the point of no return.

S8 (51:15):
So usually what happens with short sightedness is the eyeball
grows quicker than the normal rate of growing, say with
the rest of the body, arms, legs, whatever. And as
the eyeball becomes short sighted, unfortunately we can't bring it back.
So they they're stuck in some kind of visual correction.
And that could be glasses. It could be contact lenses.
But there's also like a lifelong implication that comes with

(51:37):
being short sighted. We can see in studies that people
who are short sighted are more prone to certain health
conditions in the eyes, such as retinal tears and detachments,
and they're likely to have glaucoma. You know, early cataracts. There's,
you know, there's there's more to it than just simply
wearing a glasses. But, you know, we have more tools
in our, in our toolbox compared to what we used to.

(52:00):
So it's not just a simple case of, you know,
if you've got short sightedness, you're stuck with glasses and
that's it. There's there's a lot more we can do
for people now in terms of trying to slow the
progression down. And I think a big part of that
is just simply to have knowledge so that we can
have the right lifestyle practices in place.

S1 (52:18):
Well, you're certainly giving us that. Today. We share a
little bit of a tongue in cheek question before you go,
and you're probably even too young to understand my question.
But when I was when I was growing up in
the 60s and 70s and sort of television was all
the rage here, you know, well before tablets etc., you know,
our parents, their grandparents, the people used to say, you know,
if you watch television too long, you'll get square eyes.

(52:38):
Is this kind of a bit of a follow on
of that, or is it is it kind of the
2020 version of the Getty square ice in the 60s.

S9 (52:45):
Oh my goodness, yes, you. You are showing your action.

S10 (52:50):
Thanks, Michelle. Have you heard that one before?

S9 (52:54):
I have not, actually. But you know what? I'm not
all that young, to be honest.

S8 (52:59):
But, um, I do. I do feel that, um, you know,
natural light. There's something about natural light that we should
encourage our children to be, you know, in more so,
you know, some of the things that we had when
we were growing up in terms of playing out in
the park, you know, going for walks after dinner, those
things are still very good for for vision and eyesight. And,
you know, both of my children, they're in high school, but,

(53:21):
you know, one's. One's studying all day. One loves reading,
but I still get them to, to be out bushwalking.
And they both have perfect vision. So it definitely can
be done in this age of technology. What a.

S1 (53:33):
Fantastic advertisement. Uh, an optometrist with children with perfect vision.
You're the perfect optometrist.

S10 (53:41):
Thanks, Peter. Terrific.

S1 (53:43):
Sure. It's been great talking to you. Well, up until
a couple of minutes ago, when you accused me of
being old, it was a good talking to you.

S8 (53:49):
Wisdom. Wisdom?

S10 (53:51):
Oh, yeah.

S1 (53:52):
You got out of that one very nicely. I guess
people can find out more from the Specsavers website.

S8 (53:56):
Yes, definitely. Visit the Specsavers website at Specsavers. Com.au. And
you can book in an eye test for your child
as well as for the rest of the family. It's
free if you have a Medicare card.

S1 (54:07):
It just gives us that 20 2020 rule. I love that.

S8 (54:10):
Yes, yes. So 20 minutes. Look outside 20m away and
do it for 20s.

S1 (54:17):
Terrific. A wonderful message, Michelle. I've enjoyed it too. All
the very best. Hopefully we can speak to you again
in the future.

S8 (54:22):
Thanks so much again for having me.

S10 (54:23):
Michelle.

S1 (54:25):
Who's an optometrist with Specsavers and that was really fascinating.
Kids growing and their eyeballs growing at the same sort
of time. And the 20 2020 rule. We'll put information
up with our notes about the show, and I'm hopefully
going to catch up with the show in the future. Well,
some rather sad news over the holiday period. Not sure

(54:46):
whether you would have caught up with it, but very
sad to relay the news about the passing of Bertil Nilsson,
who many would have known involved with the pole starter
and very much involved in the early days of refreshable
braille displays and technology in general. Bertil and Jan did
some tremendous work for many, many years, two of the

(55:08):
countryside with their displays, etc. so we'll pay a bit
of tribute or a longer tribute to Bertel's life in
coming weeks. But very sad to report the passing of
Bertil Mark Nilsson. Now, normally each week we give you
an audio described show of the week to check out,
if you're so inclined. Let's go with 830 this Sunday

(55:31):
evening on ITV, part of the SBS network. The chant
of Jimmie Blacksmith it's, uh, Rated M it is a
well known feature which shows the part Aboriginal man and
the enormous pressure that he had adjusting to white culture.

(55:53):
In fact, he found it intolerable since the chant of
Jimmie Blacksmith. That's this Sunday evening, 830 NITV rated M,
completed and complemented with audio description. So birthdays before we go.
We mentioned it earlier in the program when McDougall having
a birthday. So Wendy, a very big happy birthday to

(56:13):
you caught up with you over the Christmas New Year period.
You seem to be doing pretty well. So happy birthday
to you Wendy. Happy birthday also to David Woodbridge who
many would remember from Australia there with him and where
lovely Leanne said you are having a birthday. The wonderful
librarian who is on maternity leave. Hopefully we get Leanne
back at work and back on the program sometime later

(56:36):
on this year. And also very happy birthday to Saddam Ahmed,
very much also involved in technology. That is it. Sam, Richard,
thanks so much for your help. Pam Greene, thanks so
much for yours and thanks for your support over the
holiday period with your work too. Tremendous. On behalf of
Philip Vanderbeer and a big cheerio and happy birthday again

(56:56):
to Wendy McDougall. Listening in, this is Peter Greco reminding
you that Focalpoint is available on your favorite podcast platform.
Be kind to yourselves, be thoughtful and look out for
others all being well. Focal point back at the same
time next week. This is focal point on Vision Australia Radio.