July 27, 2025 • 17 mins
From Crohn's diagnosis to gut health empire: Rudi van der Vlies asks how to build authority, tackle taboo topics, and grow D2C brands in the AI era. Game-changing insights inside.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appoche Production.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hello, I'm Naomi Simpson and hand Picked Season five is here,
and the entrepreneurs this time are not going easy on me.
Those questions just keep coming, whether it's about building a
brand in a taboo subject or what about sales, Oh yeah, sales, sales, sales.
We're all trying to find more customers. And what about
(00:34):
changing customer demands or balancing high tech with high touch.
These entrepreneurs and business owners are really really asking the
questions that will help every business owner and their team
just get more ideas on how to cope with everything
they're tackling in the day. Now, new episodes drop every Monday,
(00:58):
and remember to subscribe so that here the next Lotus episode. Anyway,
join me on Handpicked on Mondays. Welcome to hand Picked.
I'm Naomi Simpson and today I'm speaking with Rudy Van Devlis.
He's the founder of Tummy, which is a gut health
(01:18):
business that he founded after his own personal experience. But
after years of traditional FMCG distribution. Like he's been in
business for a long time, Rude is now venturing into
direct to consumer and he wants to know how he
should tackle this problem of a subject that people don't
really want to talk about and how he makes it mainstream.
(01:40):
We're going to explore how to build authority in a newmarket,
create community around sensitive issues, and grow an e commerce
business on a shoestring budget. Sound familiar, so let's dive in.
Welcome Rudy, thank you for coming on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Thank you for having me now.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
I mean it's a great pleasure and I feel very
grateful to talk to one of the big more e
commerce specialists in Australia. So thank you very much for
your time. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Well you don't know what I'm gonna say yet, but
anyway now, but I.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Still appreciate it. Yeah, I still appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
It's great.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Well, maybe give everybody a bit of a background on you,
your business and where you're up to in your journey.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah sure.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
So originally our business has very much been in the
FMCG space of FMCG being called Billwards, Aldi Metcash, et cetera.
So our latest business, which is called Tummy, which is
a gut health brand, really originated from myself being diagnosed
with Crohn's disease in twenty nineteen and really getting into
(02:39):
a vacuum of trying to understand where I could get
the best.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Supplements and help for my gut condition.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
So crones is one on the side which gets managed
with proper medication, So that's not really the issue, but
the issue with all the other gut related health issues
around that was very hard to find a solution for that,
and you really get into this vacuum of not knowing
what supplements that take and how to manage your gut
health and you how to manage your gut symptoms. And
(03:10):
it took me two and a half years to run
into doctor Simone Peters. She has her Mind and Gut
Clinic here in Melbourne, and she was really the first
one that really explained to me what I should be
taking for my gut health and for my gut symptoms.
But one of the first times I met her into
the clinic, you know, and I sat there in her
consulting rooms, he was very much like, you know, for
(03:31):
this you take this brand, and for that condition, you
take that brand. And I said to her, I said, surely, Simona,
I said, with so many people having gut health issues
in Australia, like around thirty to forty percent of the
population there would have to be a brand out there
that really looks after gut health and she said, no,
there isn't really and you know, we were just joking
(03:51):
around and said, well if there isn't one, we should
start one. So that was really the birth of Tummy
and it took us about three years to develop it.
On the side, it's a scientific based and back brand
that's very important for us but also for doctor Peter.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
So yeah, here we are in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
We've launched seven months ago now and we're going all right,
but still young, and I'm very eager to learn how
to make the business better.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I know you find a red balloon in two thousand.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
And one and you're one of the most successful e
commerce business in Australia. So my first question to you
really is if you would have to start again or
give advice to a person like myself to start an
e commerce business, what are the three key things that
you would say, Okay, well, this has to be part
of your base, this has to be part of your
(04:38):
everyday routine.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, there's a number of things that I would consider,
whether it be systems and processes, a sense of purpose,
or how you're creating the enterprise and I know that
tummy sits within a bigger business that you have. So
you have been a business for quite some time. You're
a distributor of quite a number of products. But this
is really a passion project that sits inside you're much
(05:03):
much bigger business, and it's your first time really that
it is direct to consumer, because you've traditionally gone through wholesalers,
distributors and directed the big supermarkets and so forth. So
it is a very different proposition. So I guess one
of the things that I did is when you're starting
a new category, which is really, believe it or not,
(05:23):
what you're doing. Even though there is an identified problem
and you know the market size, However, people don't know
what's available to them. So one of the first things
I had to do in Red Balloon was build our
authority and I had to demonstrate or it's what we
call market development, it's education, and it is how you
(05:48):
become the authority in something and how you become the default.
So if I think about creating the Red Balloon brand,
it is very much about we know the best experiences,
We know what people love, We have vetted and we
have the best experiences available and we have an eleven
(06:13):
point check to make sure they're great. And I would
talk about experiences relentlessly in terms of the importance they
have for our community but also for social well being.
So in other words, we are all so busy being busy,
we're often isolated, and yet we need to be with people.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So I became a thought leader.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
I hate these terms because they're kind of cliches, but
it was really a thought leadership piece.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
And I created my blog Naomi Simpson dot com.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I've written hundreds of posts, some of them not as
relevant or as insightful as.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
They once were.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
They were groundbreaking back in the day, because that's the
point it moves on. So I would argue, Rudy, you
need to be known as a source, not just for that.
So how did I build authority was through association. Who
did I hang out with? Nobody had ever heard of
Red Balloon, but I was hanging out with our corporate customers, Optus,
(07:13):
the Banks, American Express, and when they chose Red Balloon
and they promoted it to their employees or their customers,
I was building authority. So it's where is your audience
hanging out? How can you have that content piece? Then
how can you make sure that somebody is giving you
the authority which you have in terms of the medical
(07:37):
and the research and so forth, but making sure that
that is noticed. So it's a market development job, which
is really content video speaking, pr reports, that sort of stuff.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
That's fantastic feedback. Thank you so much. I'll move on
to my next question. So in this health space, if
you compare it to other conditions in the past, like
a lot of disease and conditions used to be taboo,
Like I'm going back to growing up and the Netherlands
in the eighties and the nineties, Like you know, things
like breast cancer for women, or prostate cancer for men,
(08:11):
or mental health. These are all real taboost that nobody
really talked about. And there are similarities with gut health,
like a lot of people that have, for example, irritable
buzz in them, like even their best friends don't know
about it, Like they keep it very silent because it's
it's you know, we always say make poo les taboo.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Here, it's you know, it's toilet, it's yuck. It's not
something that you would bring.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Up at a dinner party said, well listen, you know,
it's some real issues on the toilet today, like nobody
talks about it. So we're try to build a brand
in that space where it's very important for us to
show love that people don't feel alone because it's a
hidden condition often, like people don't see on the outside
that you have cuts into issues and nobody really talks
(08:54):
about it, so people often feel very alone.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
So we want to build that love.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
We want to build that community where people don't feel
alone and understand that they're not alone. But at the
same time too also build a trust. And I think
you already sort of answer part of that with your
what you say about authority in my first question, But
how would you and visits building a brand around love
and connection and trust?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, I guess the proof is literally in the pudding,
in the sense of, you know, it reminds me of
a take a friend kind of project. And we have
one of our offspring has serious gut issues and I'm
sure none of his friends know and he really hides it.
So we never used to talk about mental health. And
now it is absolutely okay to understand that, you know,
(09:41):
one in four Australians will be affected by mental health,
you know or whatever the real statistics are and we
also know that gut health is directly associated with brain health,
and dementia is on the rise. So I guess I
just think of have a real chat that you know,
I think about that. Are you okay to giving people
permission to ask questions? And I do think that there
(10:04):
is a social move and in that this doesn't mean
necessarily just in terms of social medias, but how you
demonstrate the importance of caring for somebody else by being
able to reveal yourself. The other thing is people don't
want to necessarily wear their heart on their sleeves and
tell everyone. I have one friend who's a natural path
and she tells me every day about what's going on,
(10:32):
you know, catch up, cup of coffee, Thanks for sharing.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
So show some vulnerability. There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
That's a positive, that's right. So you know, having a
look at friend, get friend. How you build that relatability
and making it okay? It would be through social acceptance,
which you know, but having some fun with it is
absolutely okay.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Yeah, we're actually starting to have some fun with it
with some sevy famous faces in Australia.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
So we had our first shoes last week. So that's
going to be hopefully a bit of fun. But yeah,
I like your call on some things like are.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
You a day?
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Like it actually would be really good to retard to
them and see because are you okay is a great
course obviously mental health, but mental health, as you mentioned,
the brain gut connection is very real. The gout is
your second brand. It would be good to build that
social acceptance. And I know things like that take time.
Like luckily patience is my strength and my witness at
the same time, as I always say so question number three,
(11:29):
this really goes across anybody starting an e commerce business,
Like obviously you need to put money in platforms like
matter are not that cheap anymore. It's hard to get audience,
it's hard to get noticed.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
There is a sea of e commerce businesses out there.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
You know, we're always very big internally here with our
other business tool you know, Gorilla fighting and Gorilla Army.
You know, we've got the big corporations here in Australia
and we got our other partners. But we always want
to be the company that can move from A to
B very fast, if it has to be in an
hour or two. Look, what would you say with e commerce,
like how could we get noticed at me the more cost.
(12:05):
And I know that's the thousand dollars question obviously, but
what did you do with Red Balloon in the early
days to think, gee, I only got ten thousand dollars
suspend and I really really run a maximized thes ten
k to get the biggest possible outcome.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
I would actually look at it slightly differently because what
I did might be slightly different because I was all
about chasing corporate customers. And I did a corporate gift
show which costs I think five grand, which was oh no,
it was fifteen. And it was so expensive and it
was like my whole marketing budget. But every single person
(12:42):
who dropped by that stand I followed up and I
was very fortunate to get some really great corporate customers,
some of which I think is still with us. People
when they receive Red Balloon for recognition or whether they
use them for sales incentives, they have this really intrinsic
value rather than a dollar value, and they just keep
using it. We've had some customers for twenty years, so
(13:04):
that kind of care approach. I'm not sure if that
would work for you. Obviously, there might be some partners
like health organizations and things like that. But I think
that really comes back to your social approach of how
you make it okay.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
So I think the most important.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Thing today is making sure that your website is available.
So we used to be cutting bots out, not letting
them into our websites. Now we're desperate for them because
that's how the large language models are getting into our websites.
You know, you said the one thousand dollar question, I
reckon it's a million dollar question is how do I
(13:41):
get eyeballs that I don't have to pay for? And
so that is about creating what we call owned media
that you don't have to buy.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And the way to.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Do that is to make sure that you are available
now in AI. So if somebody is coming I've got
these symptoms, what do you know? Where should I go?
What can I learn that it's you content coming up?
And so that they could then go to your website
and there's tools that help.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
You do that.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Secondly, is that some of the platforms like Shopify, I
probably shouldn't name them. Maybe they've improved, but back in
the day when I used a Shopify website, it was
not available for search engine optimization.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
It was really hard, so.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Making sure whatever e commerce platform you use is truly
available to search engine optimization as well as AI optimization,
which is a whole new program of work. So we
are finding that in buying customers, whether that's on Google,
that up to fifty five percent of all of the
(14:48):
search engine, the natural search has disappeared, and that's because
I put Gemini at the top, and so all of
the natural searchers move down. So the only way to
get around this is to create audiences that you then
can create lookalike audiences and get more. So I would
look for a whole bunch of interest groups on whether
(15:10):
it be I don't know, the Facebook platform, but even
LinkedIn as well, and then start looking for lookalike audiences.
And ultimately you want to have I think they call
it dog food, but what you want them to come
to the website and get something really valuable for subscribing,
and then continue to educate people and building that base
(15:31):
is what We'll give you a mote around your business.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
That's absolutely fantastic. And would there be anything else that
you could recommend? I know we put down three questions,
but you know we probably had about ten or twelve
in this space.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
You know, it's a sensitive space.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
It's a space where people don't really want to come forward,
they're embarrassed. They really need us because our products will
actually work.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yes to anything else you could recommend.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Or look, you're going to have to remain curious. If
there's one thing I've seen the world keeps changing over
and over again, and once I think I've got something sorted,
something else happens.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
So I would be.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Making sure that I'm using all sorts of different AI
tools within my business to make sure that I'm staying productive,
and I would also be using AI to help me
find customers. You know, whilst the Gemini is really hurting
a lot of e commerce businesses, really mastering that could
give you a leapfrog moving forward.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
But the only thing I know is everything is once.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
You get that you think oh I've got this sorted,
something else will happens.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
That's the way it is. It's a journey another destination.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
That's exactly right. But really, how fabulous, what a great conversation.
Important work. I think that you articulating really clearly your
purpose and how you're making the world a better place
will be a very useful tool as you engage socially
and your audiences.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
So thanks so much for coming on the show. It's
been a delight.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Thank you so much, really kind words and I mean
a lot to me from a star like yourself, So
thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
So that's a wrap on today's episode with Rudy, and remember,
whether you're building authority through thought leadership, making taboo topics
socially acceptable, or finding cost effective ways to grow your audience,
success comes down to staying curious and embracing change. As
Rudy reminded us, it's a journey, not a destination, and
(17:33):
there's always another mountain to climb. Thanks for joining us
on Handpicked and remember to take care of your gut health.
Until next time, I'm Naomi Simpson.
Appoche Production.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hello, I'm Naomi Simpson and hand Picked Season five is here,
and the entrepreneurs this time are not going easy on me.
Those questions just keep coming, whether it's about building a
brand in a taboo subject or what about sales, Oh yeah, sales, sales, sales.
We're all trying to find more customers. And what about
(00:34):
changing customer demands or balancing high tech with high touch.
These entrepreneurs and business owners are really really asking the
questions that will help every business owner and their team
just get more ideas on how to cope with everything
they're tackling in the day. Now, new episodes drop every Monday,
(00:58):
and remember to subscribe so that here the next Lotus episode. Anyway,
join me on Handpicked on Mondays. Welcome to hand Picked.
I'm Naomi Simpson and today I'm speaking with Rudy Van Devlis.
He's the founder of Tummy, which is a gut health
(01:18):
business that he founded after his own personal experience. But
after years of traditional FMCG distribution. Like he's been in
business for a long time, Rude is now venturing into
direct to consumer and he wants to know how he
should tackle this problem of a subject that people don't
really want to talk about and how he makes it mainstream.
(01:40):
We're going to explore how to build authority in a newmarket,
create community around sensitive issues, and grow an e commerce
business on a shoestring budget. Sound familiar, so let's dive in.
Welcome Rudy, thank you for coming on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Thank you for having me now.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
I mean it's a great pleasure and I feel very
grateful to talk to one of the big more e
commerce specialists in Australia. So thank you very much for
your time. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Well you don't know what I'm gonna say yet, but
anyway now, but I.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Still appreciate it. Yeah, I still appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
It's great.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Well, maybe give everybody a bit of a background on you,
your business and where you're up to in your journey.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah sure.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
So originally our business has very much been in the
FMCG space of FMCG being called Billwards, Aldi Metcash, et cetera.
So our latest business, which is called Tummy, which is
a gut health brand, really originated from myself being diagnosed
with Crohn's disease in twenty nineteen and really getting into
(02:39):
a vacuum of trying to understand where I could get
the best.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Supplements and help for my gut condition.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
So crones is one on the side which gets managed
with proper medication, So that's not really the issue, but
the issue with all the other gut related health issues
around that was very hard to find a solution for that,
and you really get into this vacuum of not knowing
what supplements that take and how to manage your gut
health and you how to manage your gut symptoms. And
(03:10):
it took me two and a half years to run
into doctor Simone Peters. She has her Mind and Gut
Clinic here in Melbourne, and she was really the first
one that really explained to me what I should be
taking for my gut health and for my gut symptoms.
But one of the first times I met her into
the clinic, you know, and I sat there in her
consulting rooms, he was very much like, you know, for
(03:31):
this you take this brand, and for that condition, you
take that brand. And I said to her, I said, surely, Simona,
I said, with so many people having gut health issues
in Australia, like around thirty to forty percent of the
population there would have to be a brand out there
that really looks after gut health and she said, no,
there isn't really and you know, we were just joking
(03:51):
around and said, well if there isn't one, we should
start one. So that was really the birth of Tummy
and it took us about three years to develop it.
On the side, it's a scientific based and back brand
that's very important for us but also for doctor Peter.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
So yeah, here we are in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
We've launched seven months ago now and we're going all right,
but still young, and I'm very eager to learn how
to make the business better.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I know you find a red balloon in two thousand.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
And one and you're one of the most successful e
commerce business in Australia. So my first question to you
really is if you would have to start again or
give advice to a person like myself to start an
e commerce business, what are the three key things that
you would say, Okay, well, this has to be part
of your base, this has to be part of your
(04:38):
everyday routine.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, there's a number of things that I would consider,
whether it be systems and processes, a sense of purpose,
or how you're creating the enterprise and I know that
tummy sits within a bigger business that you have. So
you have been a business for quite some time. You're
a distributor of quite a number of products. But this
is really a passion project that sits inside you're much
(05:03):
much bigger business, and it's your first time really that
it is direct to consumer, because you've traditionally gone through wholesalers,
distributors and directed the big supermarkets and so forth. So
it is a very different proposition. So I guess one
of the things that I did is when you're starting
a new category, which is really, believe it or not,
(05:23):
what you're doing. Even though there is an identified problem
and you know the market size, However, people don't know
what's available to them. So one of the first things
I had to do in Red Balloon was build our
authority and I had to demonstrate or it's what we
call market development, it's education, and it is how you
(05:48):
become the authority in something and how you become the default.
So if I think about creating the Red Balloon brand,
it is very much about we know the best experiences,
We know what people love, We have vetted and we
have the best experiences available and we have an eleven
(06:13):
point check to make sure they're great. And I would
talk about experiences relentlessly in terms of the importance they
have for our community but also for social well being.
So in other words, we are all so busy being busy,
we're often isolated, and yet we need to be with people.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So I became a thought leader.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
I hate these terms because they're kind of cliches, but
it was really a thought leadership piece.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
And I created my blog Naomi Simpson dot com.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I've written hundreds of posts, some of them not as
relevant or as insightful as.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
They once were.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
They were groundbreaking back in the day, because that's the
point it moves on. So I would argue, Rudy, you
need to be known as a source, not just for that.
So how did I build authority was through association. Who
did I hang out with? Nobody had ever heard of
Red Balloon, but I was hanging out with our corporate customers, Optus,
(07:13):
the Banks, American Express, and when they chose Red Balloon
and they promoted it to their employees or their customers,
I was building authority. So it's where is your audience
hanging out? How can you have that content piece? Then
how can you make sure that somebody is giving you
the authority which you have in terms of the medical
(07:37):
and the research and so forth, but making sure that
that is noticed. So it's a market development job, which
is really content video speaking, pr reports, that sort of stuff.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
That's fantastic feedback. Thank you so much. I'll move on
to my next question. So in this health space, if
you compare it to other conditions in the past, like
a lot of disease and conditions used to be taboo,
Like I'm going back to growing up and the Netherlands
in the eighties and the nineties, Like you know, things
like breast cancer for women, or prostate cancer for men,
(08:11):
or mental health. These are all real taboost that nobody
really talked about. And there are similarities with gut health,
like a lot of people that have, for example, irritable
buzz in them, like even their best friends don't know
about it, Like they keep it very silent because it's
it's you know, we always say make poo les taboo.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Here, it's you know, it's toilet, it's yuck. It's not
something that you would bring.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Up at a dinner party said, well listen, you know,
it's some real issues on the toilet today, like nobody
talks about it. So we're try to build a brand
in that space where it's very important for us to
show love that people don't feel alone because it's a
hidden condition often, like people don't see on the outside
that you have cuts into issues and nobody really talks
(08:54):
about it, so people often feel very alone.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
So we want to build that love.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
We want to build that community where people don't feel
alone and understand that they're not alone. But at the
same time too also build a trust. And I think
you already sort of answer part of that with your
what you say about authority in my first question, But
how would you and visits building a brand around love
and connection and trust?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, I guess the proof is literally in the pudding,
in the sense of, you know, it reminds me of
a take a friend kind of project. And we have
one of our offspring has serious gut issues and I'm
sure none of his friends know and he really hides it.
So we never used to talk about mental health. And
now it is absolutely okay to understand that, you know,
(09:41):
one in four Australians will be affected by mental health,
you know or whatever the real statistics are and we
also know that gut health is directly associated with brain health,
and dementia is on the rise. So I guess I
just think of have a real chat that you know,
I think about that. Are you okay to giving people
permission to ask questions? And I do think that there
(10:04):
is a social move and in that this doesn't mean
necessarily just in terms of social medias, but how you
demonstrate the importance of caring for somebody else by being
able to reveal yourself. The other thing is people don't
want to necessarily wear their heart on their sleeves and
tell everyone. I have one friend who's a natural path
and she tells me every day about what's going on,
(10:32):
you know, catch up, cup of coffee, Thanks for sharing.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
So show some vulnerability. There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
That's a positive, that's right. So you know, having a
look at friend, get friend. How you build that relatability
and making it okay? It would be through social acceptance,
which you know, but having some fun with it is
absolutely okay.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Yeah, we're actually starting to have some fun with it
with some sevy famous faces in Australia.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
So we had our first shoes last week. So that's
going to be hopefully a bit of fun. But yeah,
I like your call on some things like are.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
You a day?
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Like it actually would be really good to retard to
them and see because are you okay is a great
course obviously mental health, but mental health, as you mentioned,
the brain gut connection is very real. The gout is
your second brand. It would be good to build that
social acceptance. And I know things like that take time.
Like luckily patience is my strength and my witness at
the same time, as I always say so question number three,
(11:29):
this really goes across anybody starting an e commerce business,
Like obviously you need to put money in platforms like
matter are not that cheap anymore. It's hard to get audience,
it's hard to get noticed.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
There is a sea of e commerce businesses out there.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
You know, we're always very big internally here with our
other business tool you know, Gorilla fighting and Gorilla Army.
You know, we've got the big corporations here in Australia
and we got our other partners. But we always want
to be the company that can move from A to
B very fast, if it has to be in an
hour or two. Look, what would you say with e commerce,
like how could we get noticed at me the more cost.
(12:05):
And I know that's the thousand dollars question obviously, but
what did you do with Red Balloon in the early
days to think, gee, I only got ten thousand dollars
suspend and I really really run a maximized thes ten
k to get the biggest possible outcome.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
I would actually look at it slightly differently because what
I did might be slightly different because I was all
about chasing corporate customers. And I did a corporate gift
show which costs I think five grand, which was oh no,
it was fifteen. And it was so expensive and it
was like my whole marketing budget. But every single person
(12:42):
who dropped by that stand I followed up and I
was very fortunate to get some really great corporate customers,
some of which I think is still with us. People
when they receive Red Balloon for recognition or whether they
use them for sales incentives, they have this really intrinsic
value rather than a dollar value, and they just keep
using it. We've had some customers for twenty years, so
(13:04):
that kind of care approach. I'm not sure if that
would work for you. Obviously, there might be some partners
like health organizations and things like that. But I think
that really comes back to your social approach of how
you make it okay.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
So I think the most important.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Thing today is making sure that your website is available.
So we used to be cutting bots out, not letting
them into our websites. Now we're desperate for them because
that's how the large language models are getting into our websites.
You know, you said the one thousand dollar question, I
reckon it's a million dollar question is how do I
(13:41):
get eyeballs that I don't have to pay for? And
so that is about creating what we call owned media
that you don't have to buy.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And the way to.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Do that is to make sure that you are available
now in AI. So if somebody is coming I've got
these symptoms, what do you know? Where should I go?
What can I learn that it's you content coming up?
And so that they could then go to your website
and there's tools that help.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
You do that.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Secondly, is that some of the platforms like Shopify, I
probably shouldn't name them. Maybe they've improved, but back in
the day when I used a Shopify website, it was
not available for search engine optimization.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
It was really hard, so.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Making sure whatever e commerce platform you use is truly
available to search engine optimization as well as AI optimization,
which is a whole new program of work. So we
are finding that in buying customers, whether that's on Google,
that up to fifty five percent of all of the
(14:48):
search engine, the natural search has disappeared, and that's because
I put Gemini at the top, and so all of
the natural searchers move down. So the only way to
get around this is to create audiences that you then
can create lookalike audiences and get more. So I would
look for a whole bunch of interest groups on whether
(15:10):
it be I don't know, the Facebook platform, but even
LinkedIn as well, and then start looking for lookalike audiences.
And ultimately you want to have I think they call
it dog food, but what you want them to come
to the website and get something really valuable for subscribing,
and then continue to educate people and building that base
(15:31):
is what We'll give you a mote around your business.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
That's absolutely fantastic. And would there be anything else that
you could recommend? I know we put down three questions,
but you know we probably had about ten or twelve
in this space.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
You know, it's a sensitive space.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
It's a space where people don't really want to come forward,
they're embarrassed. They really need us because our products will
actually work.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yes to anything else you could recommend.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Or look, you're going to have to remain curious. If
there's one thing I've seen the world keeps changing over
and over again, and once I think I've got something sorted,
something else happens.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
So I would be.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Making sure that I'm using all sorts of different AI
tools within my business to make sure that I'm staying productive,
and I would also be using AI to help me
find customers. You know, whilst the Gemini is really hurting
a lot of e commerce businesses, really mastering that could
give you a leapfrog moving forward.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
But the only thing I know is everything is once.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
You get that you think oh I've got this sorted,
something else will happens.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
That's the way it is. It's a journey another destination.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
That's exactly right. But really, how fabulous, what a great conversation.
Important work. I think that you articulating really clearly your
purpose and how you're making the world a better place
will be a very useful tool as you engage socially
and your audiences.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
So thanks so much for coming on the show. It's
been a delight.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Thank you so much, really kind words and I mean
a lot to me from a star like yourself, So
thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
So that's a wrap on today's episode with Rudy, and remember,
whether you're building authority through thought leadership, making taboo topics
socially acceptable, or finding cost effective ways to grow your audience,
success comes down to staying curious and embracing change. As
Rudy reminded us, it's a journey, not a destination, and
(17:33):
there's always another mountain to climb. Thanks for joining us
on Handpicked and remember to take care of your gut health.
Until next time, I'm Naomi Simpson.
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