October 26, 2025 • 14 mins
January 2020. New CEO. Six-month-old baby. Seven weeks later? COVID hits.
That's how Cara McLeod stepped into the CEO role at Mahlab—and somehow that chaos became the launchpad for international growth.
But here's the problem: Mahlab does bespoke strategy work. Everything is custom. Every project needs people. More growth = more headcount. The classic service business trap.
So how do you scale what on paper looks hard to scale?
Cara asks the questions keeping service business CEOs up at night: How do you stand out in a global marketplace when you're suddenly competing worldwide? Can you turn custom expertise into scalable products without losing your magic? And how do you test international markets—especially for their niche in member-based organisations—without taking your eye off the Australian ball?
Naomi doesn't hold back. She reveals the partnership model that took a Shark Tank investment global fast. Plus: the warm referral strategies that crack international markets (spoiler: ditch the cold calling) and why tapping into global associations through your existing clients is pure gold.
If you're wrestling with taking custom work global, this episode is your playbook.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apoche Production.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hello, I'm Naomi Simpson and Handpicked Season five is here,
and the entrepreneurs this time are not going easy on me.
Those questions just keep coming, whether it's about building a
brand in a taboo subject or what about sales, Oh yeah, sales, sales, sales.
We're all trying to find more customers. And what about
(00:34):
changing customer demands or balancing high tech with high touch.
These entrepreneurs and business owners are really really asking the
questions that will help every business owner and their team
just get more ideas on how to cope with everything
they're tackling in the day. Now, new episodes drop every Monday,
(00:57):
and remember to subscribe so that here the next Notus episode. Anyway,
join me on Handpicked on Mondays.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Hello, I'm Naomi.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Simpson and you're with hand Picked for podcast where people
ask me questions about business and growth. And today we
have Kara McLeod from My Lab. Welcome Carra, thank you,
thank you for having me. Now, you're the CEO of
mar Lab. Perhaps let's hear a little bit about your
journey to this role as CEO.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Ah yeah, certainly, I'm my Lab CEO. I joined my
Lab almost a decade ago in twenty fifteen, not as
my Lab CEO, but I did come into the business
at a sort of an inflection point where it was
evolving into a new iteration, and my journey to CEO
was I did not actually become CEO for another five years.
(01:53):
I had a number of roles within the business over
that time, and ultimately became the CEO of my lab
when our founder stepped into the chair role and I
stepped into the CEO role in beginning of twenty two
And so.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Many founders would love to know how that happens. And
it sounds like you were nurtured or there was a
long period of transition so that you really knew the
business inside us. Can you share a little bit about
that transition to becoming CEO and how is it working
with a founder as a chair.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, well, I think again the sort of core that
obviously I can't speak for the founder our chair on
this side, but from the perspective of having worked together
for now four ten years, we've certainly learnt a lot
about each other and how we both work in each
other's strengths as well, I do absolutely agree that it
was not an overnight decision or change that was made.
(02:49):
It was certainly something that was sort of planned, whether
consciously and subconsciously or strategically and less strategically over that
time as well. From a timing perspective, for me, I
know that there was periods that I had out of
the business during those first five years. I had two
cho ldren during that time, and so they were times
when I would take sort of ultimately talk about six
(03:10):
months out each time. But then, you know, I think
for our founder also getting to the point where she
wanted to do other things with her time as well,
and so to give her the opportunity to step out
of the sort of day to day operations of the
business and into that chair role, needed that succession plan
to be in place, and so that did happen at
(03:31):
the beginning of twenty twenty. If we can all remember
twenty twenty, it was a pretty an interesting time, and
I did come back from my second maternity leave. I
had a six month old in January, and about seven
weeks later, obviously, COVID happened, and I think a lot
of ways that ultimately we will never know, but did
change obviously the probably the plans that we both had
(03:51):
for for that initial transition. And so we're now five
years on and obviously navigated that specific period, but now
five years on and yeah, Bobby is very much in
the chair role and I'm operating the business day to day, and.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
It is terrifically.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I have heard people say that they would never work
in a founder led business, and then there's others who
actually love it and thrive with the energy and the enthusiasm.
But how we transition as founders, Like every business was
started somewhere, even if we don't even know who originally
(04:25):
started it, there was a founder at some point. I
worked at Ansett, which was an airline a very long
time ago, and reg Anset had been dead for twenty
thirty years, and they still talked about reg you know,
what would Reg do when I was there? So when
I worked at Apple, you know, they always talked about
Steve Jobs and he wasn't working there when I worked
(04:47):
there in the nineties. So you know, this kind of
notion of there is always a founder somewhere, but that
transition can be really quite challenging if the business's personality led.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
So I've also found in my own circumstance.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
So David and I are partners and he's the group CEO,
and I no longer work in the business.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I'm a non executive director.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
And what has been terrific about that It gives me
the opportunity to do something else.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
But he has such a big vision, like you.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Know, I saw it as Australia and red balloon and
he said, no, no, no, it's experiences. In any way,
we've got global aspirations and so that next level of
vision I think has been really important to us.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
But let's get into your first question.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Sure, yes, So my first question is really about that.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Sort of global growth.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
So again coming back to sort of the twenty twenty
in the pandemic being a bit of an inflection point
in our business, it was a time when once the
sort of initial chaos of that time settled a little bit,
it was a moment where we actually experienced a lot
of a really strong period of growth. And it was
also a period where we experienced a lot of international
growth because for our clients it actually, for the first time,
(06:01):
really didn't matter so much where our team was located
because we were obviously all online. It now means that
we are competing globally. We compete for sort of regional
and global briefs, which has been amazing. But on one hand,
I think it makes differentiation and standing out in a
sort of larger marketplace more difficult. So I was interested
(06:21):
in your sort of experience or insights on sort of
branding and positioning of your business in that kind of
global marketplace.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yes, I might actually rather than talk about well, I
could talk about a little bit about Big Red Group
because we've done this in New Zealand. But I think
next year will be our big year for going into
new markets. But we created a platform business, but we
found partners that we did joint ventures with, so they
were already in market. We had a platform, difficult for
(06:52):
them to upgrade their technology.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
We bought came with the.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Platform, They came with the audiences, and they came with
the experiences, and then we put them together and we
created something really great. But it was joint venture and
that means that everybody was aligned in terms of what
success looks like.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
But if I actually think of.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
One of my Shark Tank businesses, which was Veggiepod, I
must say it was my most successful one at this point.
There's still some to go, but they opened up the
whole planet that way, So they would find somebody who
was an expert in the horticulture area that had good reach,
(07:32):
maybe had nurseries or a distribution, but knew everybody, and
then they just they did a joint venture and created
a new entity. So there was a holding company and
then they had these subsidiaries which were joint ventures, and
they had somebody in the ground. And because business is
always about relationships, I mean, it's always about partnerships and
(07:53):
who can we know and who can we trust and
brand reputation. So it was a wonderful way of them
getting a really large footprint relatively quickly opened up in
the UK US throughout Asia relatively quickly because they went
to international shows, found people they liked, wanted to work with,
(08:14):
had a process of licensing their product, their content, which
is what we did, licensing our platform, and then they
work together and would be on the ground with them.
But that was how they got scale relatively quickly.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, that partnership model, all that partnership I do is
definitely something that we are starting to explore. We've probably
today a lot of the old growth has been quite
independent in the sense of organically as well, but that
idea of partnering with others and forming alliances.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, definitely, It's also about that point of differentiation because
you know, I do know the work that you do
is absolutely customized based on a brief and yet over
here there's a whole lot of commodity kind of stuff
going on. And differentiating yourself by demonstrating effectively the thinking
and the creativity that goes into your work, I think
(09:02):
is really important.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I think probably the other question that sort of is
a bit linked to that is that idea that we have.
We are and have been a service based business, and
so we do I think on some of it haven't
been necessarily particularly scalable, and since everything is bespoken, obviously
resources and growth is tied to growth in headcount and
growth in people, and we have been exploring kind of
new ways that we might be able to kind of
(09:26):
I guess, commoditize or digitize some of our IP and
put it in a way that could be a bit
more self serve or allow us to get some of
that scale. And I guess from your experience, because this
is not our skill set or expertise, that where might
we start or what might be some of the kind
of skills or experience that we might want to tap
into to explore whether that's a possibility or an opportunity
(09:49):
for us.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
So I think about what is the repetitive things that
happen over and over again, and who else or how
else or what system or AI agent could take care
of that for you. And so therefore it's about understand
and what the secret source is, like the real value
delivered to clients, like how you enable them to see
(10:12):
things they can't see, how they can view things their
world differently because of the language that you're using. So,
when you've been a service industry, it's quite difficult to
move into being a product business because it is going
to take absolutely new ways of working. So if it's
(10:34):
hard to build it, then could you buy it? So
who does have a product business that could give you
the leverage that once you overlaid your secret source, that
would give you the incremental value. It can be very
difficult to innovate from within. When somebody's a startup, you
(10:55):
know you've got nothing to lose. You can throw anything
at it, and you can try something, doesn't work, throw
it out. But even now in the size of our businesses,
it's much harder. So therefore, who is innovating and where
could you get it? And if they had your scale,
what could that look like if they became part of
the group. So one of the questions we ask over
(11:17):
and over every time we're doing some level of technology,
we say, who does it best? And it might be
outside of your industry, might not even be in the
same industry, but should we build or should be buying?
And I think that that as a question because if
nothing else, you'll learn a lot in the exploration before
you invest. And difficult to do mitimum viable product from
(11:39):
within versus you know, maybe go to a university and
give them a project, you know uts which is literally
around the corner from where you are, and give them
a project and say, right, see what they're having different
sorts of thinking difficult from within?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yeah, great, good feb great. My last question, which again
is tied to growth, because I think everyone is obviously
chasing growth where they can. So MARLB has some really
deep kind of experience and expertise with a particular industry
and vertical Here in Australia, we do a lot of
work with member based organizations and associations and we think
(12:17):
that this sort of expertise is quite transferable to some
international market, specifically more likely the UK and the US,
and we'd love to kind of test for that kind
of opportunity in a way that but again not to
nestly diminish or take our focus off other priorities here
in Australia. So I'm interested in ways in which we
might be able to explore that opportunity to take our
(12:37):
service to a new market, but sort of without over
quickly and without over sort of investing in time.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So it's all about reputation, and I'm sure that's how
a lot of clients come to you. They know you
do engineers Australia and you know somebody else will refer
and there's different parts of.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Engineering and so forth.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Well, I think it's the same on a global scale
because there's all international associations and they will probably seeking
referrals from your existing clients into their international realm or
who else they know in other countries. I think back
to when way back in the day, when all of
a sudden we had to go national and then because
(13:19):
of a client request we had to go to New
Zealand as well.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Well, we didn't have to, but we chose to.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Like it was a growth opportunity because clients were asking
us to do that, and so I went to the
hot Evalin guy and said, who's a member of your association?
How do I get in around the country? How do
I find them? And of course they're all part of
these membership associations until ultimately it's the global one, and
they've all got subsidiaries in different countries. So I would
(13:46):
literally ask for referrals from your existing customers and understand
how their networks work. And then, because you know, what
we don't want to be is doing a cold calling.
The other tool that we use now a little bit
more is a prospecting tool called Apollo.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
But again, you want a warm lead, not a hey,
guess what you know? It's it's a bit cold. So yeah,
that's what I look at something like that.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
How it goes otherwise, Cara, we'll get you on a
plane and send you to conferences.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
All that's postility as well.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
So look, Caaren, terrific questions. Thank you so much for
coming on handpicked. I truly admire the work that Marlab does,
the clients that you have, the international awards that you've won,
and what a delight to be such an Australian iconic
company with such a big future.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
I look forward to seeing you take it offshore. So
thank you, great, thank you,
Apoche Production.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hello, I'm Naomi Simpson and Handpicked Season five is here,
and the entrepreneurs this time are not going easy on me.
Those questions just keep coming, whether it's about building a
brand in a taboo subject or what about sales, Oh yeah, sales, sales, sales.
We're all trying to find more customers. And what about
(00:34):
changing customer demands or balancing high tech with high touch.
These entrepreneurs and business owners are really really asking the
questions that will help every business owner and their team
just get more ideas on how to cope with everything
they're tackling in the day. Now, new episodes drop every Monday,
(00:57):
and remember to subscribe so that here the next Notus episode. Anyway,
join me on Handpicked on Mondays.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Hello, I'm Naomi.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Simpson and you're with hand Picked for podcast where people
ask me questions about business and growth. And today we
have Kara McLeod from My Lab. Welcome Carra, thank you,
thank you for having me. Now, you're the CEO of
mar Lab. Perhaps let's hear a little bit about your
journey to this role as CEO.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Ah yeah, certainly, I'm my Lab CEO. I joined my
Lab almost a decade ago in twenty fifteen, not as
my Lab CEO, but I did come into the business
at a sort of an inflection point where it was
evolving into a new iteration, and my journey to CEO
was I did not actually become CEO for another five years.
(01:53):
I had a number of roles within the business over
that time, and ultimately became the CEO of my lab
when our founder stepped into the chair role and I
stepped into the CEO role in beginning of twenty two
And so.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Many founders would love to know how that happens. And
it sounds like you were nurtured or there was a
long period of transition so that you really knew the
business inside us. Can you share a little bit about
that transition to becoming CEO and how is it working
with a founder as a chair.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, well, I think again the sort of core that
obviously I can't speak for the founder our chair on
this side, but from the perspective of having worked together
for now four ten years, we've certainly learnt a lot
about each other and how we both work in each
other's strengths as well, I do absolutely agree that it
was not an overnight decision or change that was made.
(02:49):
It was certainly something that was sort of planned, whether
consciously and subconsciously or strategically and less strategically over that
time as well. From a timing perspective, for me, I
know that there was periods that I had out of
the business during those first five years. I had two
cho ldren during that time, and so they were times
when I would take sort of ultimately talk about six
(03:10):
months out each time. But then, you know, I think
for our founder also getting to the point where she
wanted to do other things with her time as well,
and so to give her the opportunity to step out
of the sort of day to day operations of the
business and into that chair role, needed that succession plan
to be in place, and so that did happen at
(03:31):
the beginning of twenty twenty. If we can all remember
twenty twenty, it was a pretty an interesting time, and
I did come back from my second maternity leave. I
had a six month old in January, and about seven
weeks later, obviously, COVID happened, and I think a lot
of ways that ultimately we will never know, but did
change obviously the probably the plans that we both had
(03:51):
for for that initial transition. And so we're now five
years on and obviously navigated that specific period, but now
five years on and yeah, Bobby is very much in
the chair role and I'm operating the business day to day, and.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
It is terrifically.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I have heard people say that they would never work
in a founder led business, and then there's others who
actually love it and thrive with the energy and the enthusiasm.
But how we transition as founders, Like every business was
started somewhere, even if we don't even know who originally
(04:25):
started it, there was a founder at some point. I
worked at Ansett, which was an airline a very long
time ago, and reg Anset had been dead for twenty
thirty years, and they still talked about reg you know,
what would Reg do when I was there? So when
I worked at Apple, you know, they always talked about
Steve Jobs and he wasn't working there when I worked
(04:47):
there in the nineties. So you know, this kind of
notion of there is always a founder somewhere, but that
transition can be really quite challenging if the business's personality led.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
So I've also found in my own circumstance.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
So David and I are partners and he's the group CEO,
and I no longer work in the business.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I'm a non executive director.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
And what has been terrific about that It gives me
the opportunity to do something else.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
But he has such a big vision, like you.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Know, I saw it as Australia and red balloon and
he said, no, no, no, it's experiences. In any way,
we've got global aspirations and so that next level of
vision I think has been really important to us.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
But let's get into your first question.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Sure, yes, So my first question is really about that.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Sort of global growth.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
So again coming back to sort of the twenty twenty
in the pandemic being a bit of an inflection point
in our business, it was a time when once the
sort of initial chaos of that time settled a little bit,
it was a moment where we actually experienced a lot
of a really strong period of growth. And it was
also a period where we experienced a lot of international
growth because for our clients it actually, for the first time,
(06:01):
really didn't matter so much where our team was located
because we were obviously all online. It now means that
we are competing globally. We compete for sort of regional
and global briefs, which has been amazing. But on one hand,
I think it makes differentiation and standing out in a
sort of larger marketplace more difficult. So I was interested
(06:21):
in your sort of experience or insights on sort of
branding and positioning of your business in that kind of
global marketplace.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yes, I might actually rather than talk about well, I
could talk about a little bit about Big Red Group
because we've done this in New Zealand. But I think
next year will be our big year for going into
new markets. But we created a platform business, but we
found partners that we did joint ventures with, so they
were already in market. We had a platform, difficult for
(06:52):
them to upgrade their technology.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
We bought came with the.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Platform, They came with the audiences, and they came with
the experiences, and then we put them together and we
created something really great. But it was joint venture and
that means that everybody was aligned in terms of what
success looks like.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
But if I actually think of.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
One of my Shark Tank businesses, which was Veggiepod, I
must say it was my most successful one at this point.
There's still some to go, but they opened up the
whole planet that way, So they would find somebody who
was an expert in the horticulture area that had good reach,
(07:32):
maybe had nurseries or a distribution, but knew everybody, and
then they just they did a joint venture and created
a new entity. So there was a holding company and
then they had these subsidiaries which were joint ventures, and
they had somebody in the ground. And because business is
always about relationships, I mean, it's always about partnerships and
(07:53):
who can we know and who can we trust and
brand reputation. So it was a wonderful way of them
getting a really large footprint relatively quickly opened up in
the UK US throughout Asia relatively quickly because they went
to international shows, found people they liked, wanted to work with,
(08:14):
had a process of licensing their product, their content, which
is what we did, licensing our platform, and then they
work together and would be on the ground with them.
But that was how they got scale relatively quickly.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, that partnership model, all that partnership I do is
definitely something that we are starting to explore. We've probably
today a lot of the old growth has been quite
independent in the sense of organically as well, but that
idea of partnering with others and forming alliances.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, definitely, It's also about that point of differentiation because
you know, I do know the work that you do
is absolutely customized based on a brief and yet over
here there's a whole lot of commodity kind of stuff
going on. And differentiating yourself by demonstrating effectively the thinking
and the creativity that goes into your work, I think
(09:02):
is really important.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I think probably the other question that sort of is
a bit linked to that is that idea that we have.
We are and have been a service based business, and
so we do I think on some of it haven't
been necessarily particularly scalable, and since everything is bespoken, obviously
resources and growth is tied to growth in headcount and
growth in people, and we have been exploring kind of
new ways that we might be able to kind of
(09:26):
I guess, commoditize or digitize some of our IP and
put it in a way that could be a bit
more self serve or allow us to get some of
that scale. And I guess from your experience, because this
is not our skill set or expertise, that where might
we start or what might be some of the kind
of skills or experience that we might want to tap
into to explore whether that's a possibility or an opportunity
(09:49):
for us.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
So I think about what is the repetitive things that
happen over and over again, and who else or how
else or what system or AI agent could take care
of that for you. And so therefore it's about understand
and what the secret source is, like the real value
delivered to clients, like how you enable them to see
(10:12):
things they can't see, how they can view things their
world differently because of the language that you're using. So,
when you've been a service industry, it's quite difficult to
move into being a product business because it is going
to take absolutely new ways of working. So if it's
(10:34):
hard to build it, then could you buy it? So
who does have a product business that could give you
the leverage that once you overlaid your secret source, that
would give you the incremental value. It can be very
difficult to innovate from within. When somebody's a startup, you
(10:55):
know you've got nothing to lose. You can throw anything
at it, and you can try something, doesn't work, throw
it out. But even now in the size of our businesses,
it's much harder. So therefore, who is innovating and where
could you get it? And if they had your scale,
what could that look like if they became part of
the group. So one of the questions we ask over
(11:17):
and over every time we're doing some level of technology,
we say, who does it best? And it might be
outside of your industry, might not even be in the
same industry, but should we build or should be buying?
And I think that that as a question because if
nothing else, you'll learn a lot in the exploration before
you invest. And difficult to do mitimum viable product from
(11:39):
within versus you know, maybe go to a university and
give them a project, you know uts which is literally
around the corner from where you are, and give them
a project and say, right, see what they're having different
sorts of thinking difficult from within?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yeah, great, good feb great. My last question, which again
is tied to growth, because I think everyone is obviously
chasing growth where they can. So MARLB has some really
deep kind of experience and expertise with a particular industry
and vertical Here in Australia, we do a lot of
work with member based organizations and associations and we think
(12:17):
that this sort of expertise is quite transferable to some
international market, specifically more likely the UK and the US,
and we'd love to kind of test for that kind
of opportunity in a way that but again not to
nestly diminish or take our focus off other priorities here
in Australia. So I'm interested in ways in which we
might be able to explore that opportunity to take our
(12:37):
service to a new market, but sort of without over
quickly and without over sort of investing in time.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So it's all about reputation, and I'm sure that's how
a lot of clients come to you. They know you
do engineers Australia and you know somebody else will refer
and there's different parts of.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Engineering and so forth.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Well, I think it's the same on a global scale
because there's all international associations and they will probably seeking
referrals from your existing clients into their international realm or
who else they know in other countries. I think back
to when way back in the day, when all of
a sudden we had to go national and then because
(13:19):
of a client request we had to go to New
Zealand as well.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Well, we didn't have to, but we chose to.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Like it was a growth opportunity because clients were asking
us to do that, and so I went to the
hot Evalin guy and said, who's a member of your association?
How do I get in around the country? How do
I find them? And of course they're all part of
these membership associations until ultimately it's the global one, and
they've all got subsidiaries in different countries. So I would
(13:46):
literally ask for referrals from your existing customers and understand
how their networks work. And then, because you know, what
we don't want to be is doing a cold calling.
The other tool that we use now a little bit
more is a prospecting tool called Apollo.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
But again, you want a warm lead, not a hey,
guess what you know? It's it's a bit cold. So yeah,
that's what I look at something like that.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
How it goes otherwise, Cara, we'll get you on a
plane and send you to conferences.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
All that's postility as well.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
So look, Caaren, terrific questions. Thank you so much for
coming on handpicked. I truly admire the work that Marlab does,
the clients that you have, the international awards that you've won,
and what a delight to be such an Australian iconic
company with such a big future.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
I look forward to seeing you take it offshore. So
thank you, great, thank you,
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