October 27, 2022 • 29 mins
The next in our greatest hits playlist is an encore episode of the B Time Podcast with Beth Bierbower. Beth is a sought-after thought leader on consumerism who has served for more than 30 years for many of the top payers across the country. Beth and Jared discuss consumer transformation – what it means, why it matters and which companies are embracing this concept as a means to transform their businesses.
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Episode Transcript
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Jared (00:04):
Welcome to Health Care Mixtape, where we're curating the ultimate
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Subscribe to Shift Forward Health on your favorite podcast app
(00:26):
and you'll be subscribed to our entire Library of Shows
one subscription all the podcasts you need and it's all
for free. I'm Jared Johnson, your playlist curator, and it's
time to mix it up. All right. The next in
our Greatest Hits playlist is an episode of the Bee
Time podcast with Beth Bierbauer. Beth is a sought after
thought leader on consumerism who's served for more than 30 years.
(00:48):
For many of the top payers in the country, Beth
and I discussed consumer transformation, what it means, why it matters,
and which companies are embracing this concept as a means
to transform their businesses. I encourage you to subscribe to
the Bee Time podcast and I hope you get a
lot out of this episode. Check it out. Let the
mix begin.
Beth (01:03):
Jared, welcome to B time.
Jared (01:05):
Thank you so much. Beth I'm really excited to dive in.
Beth (01:07):
Well, thank you. We are really thrilled to have you here. Now, Jared,
our listeners are really familiar with the term digital transformation,
but perhaps less so with the term consumer transformation. Will
you share with us what does consumer transformation mean and
is it the same as consumer focused or consumer centric?
Jared (01:26):
Oh, great question. Okay. So this is a good starting
point for me. I've been I've been trying to work
on a definition myself because I feel like it has
continually been updating in my mind and I've asked around
a little bit recently. So I'm glad you asked this.
Here's my working definition and we can go off of
this and see where it takes us. But I feel
like when I'm talking about consumer transformation, I'm describing the
(01:47):
long term realignment of business systems, culture and financial incentives
around consumers expressed and unexpressed needs related to health care
in that, you know, in this sense that means the
things that consumers may not have shared. When I say
expressed and unexpressed, there are needs and desires that consumers
(02:09):
have well before they become a patient. And so designing
an experience around that does take a full level of transformation.
And that's where I'm referring to this long term alignment
of the pieces that need to happen before we ever
worry about marketing anything or before we ever worry about
what digital tools need to be in place to execute that.
(02:30):
It's the vision of what's happening in my mind prior to.
So consumer transformation is just that. It's a big piece
of that. You asked whether that's the same as consumer
centric or consumer focused. I feel like they're pretty close.
I feel like consumer centric or consumer focused, they're they're
positive steps towards consumer transformation. I feel like they are
ways that we describe our mindset or the tools that
(02:51):
we're using to undergo consumer transformation. So they might be
some of those steps that happen in between. There are
a lot of organizations out there that we've heard them
referred to as as the disruptors or innovators in the space.
And there's a lot of folks out there who have
who I feel like have made observations over the last
few years, have been studying the disruptors themselves. And it's
(03:14):
really anyone that we'd expect, all the ones we talk
about all the time, it feels like any presentation out
there has like that first slide of here's what's happening
to health care and here are all the disruptors. And
instead of everyone from the consumer brands, from the Amazons
and Walmarts and CVS to digital health brands to national providers,
to the Uniteds and Optum and Geisinger like regional providers.
(03:38):
And then we're now we're even talking about billionaires like
Mark Cuban entering the prescription drug space. He's created his
cost plus drug company. And we want to study their
disruptive DNA. We want to understand their mindset and what
what tools they're using to approach health care differently. So
all that's kind of packaged up together in that consumer
transformation journey in my mind.
Beth (03:58):
That's helpful. And I think the one thing that I
heard is a little bit different is than just being
consumer centric or consumer focus is really trying to anticipate
needs and also thinking about unmet needs. And when I
say unmet, it's not just that, Oh, I know I
have this issue and I would like somebody to help
me close the gap, if you will, but maybe I
(04:20):
should say unstated needs, right? Because that's something that Apple
was really very good at, really anticipating that, you know,
what the average consumer really would like to have a
camera on their phone and they really want to co-create
and create their own content. So I think this anticipation
and also thinking about unstated needs is really, really critical.
Jared (04:44):
Apple's the first example that came to my mind as well.
Hospitality and travel do that really well. Also, they are
so experience focused, they are going to anticipate what you
didn't realize would be useful, maybe based on a little
bit of feedback from from a handful of people who said, Oh, this,
that one thing that would have been cool if you
had done that for me, the hospitality industry is great
(05:06):
at at then scaling that and saying, let's make that
the standard for the experience for everybody and people not realizing,
Oh yeah, that that really was nice. So it is
definitely a new aspect of approaching the consumer side of
health care that quite frankly, we're still kind of getting
experience in and learning how to do better as an industry.
Beth (05:28):
Well, anybody who's ever lost a piece of luggage now
appreciates that in the app. It tells you when your
luggage has been boarded if you happen to be checking
a bag. And while that may not be 100% foolproof,
it certainly gives you a little bit more confidence that
when you arrive, your baggage will be on the same
plane with you. Now let's go to my next question,
(05:50):
which is digital transformation synonymous with consumer transformation? In my mind,
digital transformation is an important part of the overall consumer transformation.
It's integral, but I don't think it's exactly the same.
If you just did digital transformation, I'm not sure that
(06:11):
you would truly have consumer transformation.
Jared (06:15):
It's a really good distinction. I agree. There are a
couple of things that come to mind. A couple of
directions I could go with this and the first one
has just has to do with that. I feel like
digital transformation, you're right, it has been necessary and use
has been because we're far from done. We're far from
from checking the box and saying we we've done that
as an industry. But I've definitely feel like we are
(06:35):
making we've made a lot of progress. You look back
at 10 to 12 years ago and you make you
look at everything that's happened in terms of the digital
aspects of healthcare, and you can say we've made a
lot of progress. And to me, it's likened to to
the plumbing in a building, the digital transformation that we've
needed to do. And that's everything from make distinctions between
digitizing and existing business process like check in at a hospital.
(06:59):
It's the classic example of the part of the experience
that nobody wants to do. You want to get handed
a clipboard with a whole bunch of paperwork to fill out, right?
When you get to the office and you're already a
little tense or a little just anxious about what the
doctor's going to say, and then you have to fill
out all this information that most likely you've already provided
in the past in some way. And now if we
(07:20):
say that digital transformation and part of the experience in
this case would be now I'm filling that out on
an iPad. Well, that's great. You know, we've digitized an
existing process. You can't help but ask, though, like is
there if it still takes just as long. I've heard
this quote from from others in the industry and I
love it. It's just a great example. Like if it
(07:41):
takes just as long and you just happen to be
doing it on an iPad, you're still filling out 10
to 12 pages. Is it really that much better? There's
a lot of different aspects. You know, when I focus
on the consumer facing aspects of digital transformation, it's things
like that. It's these touch points that a consumer's coming
in and they become a patient. What are they remembering
as part of the experience? And we need a digital
(08:03):
transformation to happen. We need the plumbing to happen. We
needed new pipes. We needed new new ways of doing
things to accommodate what's going to be happening next. And
so to me, it's like we don't want to just say, Hey,
we finally redid all the plumbing for this building and
forget to build the building on top of it. And
to me, that building on top of it is is
(08:25):
a better consumer experience. So consumer transformation, I think, is
the next step. It's part of it. There's a lot
of overlap. There are things that that will involve digitizing
an existing process. Let's make that more efficient. Let's make
it easier, let's have less error involved and let's do that.
But let's not stop there. Let's recognize that there's more
(08:45):
to be done.
Beth (08:46):
Well, let's talk about some of the core tenets of
consumer transformation. So we've already talked about the processes. It's
not just digitizing the process. You really have to improve it,
make it very consumer oriented. But when I think about tenants,
I think about things like transparency is a core tenant.
Anytime I think you're looking at consumer transformation, it may
(09:09):
be the type of language that you use. What in
your mind, Jared Or some of those core tenets that
our listeners should be thinking about when they think about
true transformation.
Jared (09:19):
So I think number one is the fact that consumers
think more and more about. Their health care experience like
they do with other types of experiences, with any other
type of brand that we engage with on a day
to day basis. We don't wake up thinking about health
care in a different way anymore. We think, Hey, it
was a lot easier to transact with my bank today.
(09:41):
It was a lot easier to order something on Amazon.
It was a lot ordered, a lot easier to order
something from a restaurant. Now I can pick it up curbside.
We don't think about it and compartmentalize as consumers. We
don't compartmentalize those decisions anymore. And that's important to realize.
And so I feel like there are four critical business
components when it has to do with consumer transformation that
(10:02):
we need to focus on because they're all overlapping and
we can do a better job of connecting the dots here.
The first one is the business side. So what's the
actual encounter that's happening? What is the business process like?
How are we structured for the traditional hospital slash, payor
slash facility based experience that's been out there for decades?
(10:23):
Actually for a couple of centuries that has been come in,
see the doctor. The visit is the core component that
we transact around. And now we all know that that's
not the only way to engage with health care. So
we have to understand, like what's the business model? And
it's not just like one size fits all anymore. It's
not just come in and see a doctor. There's a
(10:45):
lot more to it. So the business model itself, that's
number one. Number two is the experience. It's designing experiences
and having the chops to understand some basic human centered
design and design thinking elements that have made their way
into a lot of businesses over the last the last
5 to 10 years, really the last 3 to 5 years.
(11:05):
And we just need to scale that. We need more
design thinking because that really does put the consumer at
the center of the change management process. And it's actually amazing.
It doesn't act when it's done right. It doesn't add
more work. It actually reduces the work that no one
wanted to do anyway. So the experience design is important.
That's the second one. The third one is the digital side.
(11:27):
We're just talking about digital transformation, right? So, hey, great,
Let's say you pulled in, we examined the business model,
we examined the experience that we want to design. Now
you have to build the experience. Now you have to
know what tools you need to make that possible. And
more and more that a deep digital knowledge is critical.
You have to now build that experience. And then the
(11:50):
fourth one is marketing in my mind, because marketers in
most organizations usually have the most consumer insights. They usually
know more about how a consumer behaves and how to
influence that behavior than than almost anyone else. So business experience,
digital and marketing are really the four critical business components
(12:11):
in my mind. And the more we connect those, the
more we start actually asking different questions.
Beth (12:16):
I think the most important thing in health care is
bringing consumer insights into health care. And that's not to
be confused with with a sick consumer or a patient.
It's just general consumer insights like the technology that they're
using that they've gained empowerment because there's transparency. Think about
(12:38):
the transparency in airfare that happened years ago and how
empowered consumers are now. So I think it's really important
to step out of that health care lane and health
care thinking and really understand what is it that consumers
are doing in other industries and in other aspects of
their their lives? Because to your point, there's this blending now,
(12:59):
whereas well, if I can have transparency here, why can't
I have it here? If I can do this on
my phone here, why can't I do it over here?
It isn't compartmentalized. They are no longer giving health care
a buy saying, Oh, well, your health care, you're more difficult.
I shouldn't be able to use my phone. They're saying, what?
What's the facts? I don't have a facts. What's the facts?
(13:21):
What do you mean? Can I just show you my
ID card on my phone? So I think that that's
really important. Now, when you think about this, Jared, you
name four tenants. I think they were really good. Is
it just the playbook or is there something more that's
needed beyond those four tenants? So if I if I
follow each of those, can I still have a miss here?
Jared (13:42):
Absolutely. A great, great lead up to this playbook. When
nobody's bought into it doesn't matter much. Maybe thinking in
football or basketball or baseball, you know, any hockey like
at any sport. If you've got the playbook, great. You
can put all the time and effort into that and
drawing up all the plays. And yet if you don't
(14:02):
have buy in, especially from the top, if people don't
understand what the playbooks for or they're challenging it so
much and they they just haven't tried it out enough, Yeah,
it's not going to it's only going to take you
so far. It's not going to get to the place
where you want to go. And so that really does
lead to a cultural transformation that has to happen Now,
You know, health care and cultural transformations have had a
mixed track record over the years. I was. Find it
(14:25):
interesting if anyone, you know, really challenged that. I think
it's pretty safe to say that we're not all the
way where we want to go culturally within health care organizations.
There's a lot of historical. Order to things and structure
where if you questioned it, you know, it just didn't
(14:45):
go anywhere. There is a culture of transformation that's going
to have to happen. And the interesting thing about I
think I can tie back to the experience design side
of those components we were just talking about. So I've
been I've had the fortune of being able to be
in a few design thinking workshops, and the craziest thing
happens in these things and any anyone who's listening, who's
(15:07):
been able to be a part of of any type
of design thinking workshop or human centered design workshop or
event of any kind may well have experienced the same thing.
But in the ones I've been in, we've had a
lot of leaders in the room who some some were
more bought into the process than others, shall we say.
But by the end what happened was a bit of
(15:28):
a magical experience where everyone left understanding the value of
of how they just changed their thinking. They realized that
you brought a whole bunch of perspectives into the room
that don't typically sit at the table at the same time.
And they all were focused on the problem that they're
trying to solve. It could be trying to make things
easier for for patients. It could be making trying to
(15:50):
trying to improve the business model so that we can
be more efficient, whatever the actual problem is you're trying
to solve in those workshops is really interesting. I've just
been able to see some of that, that magic that
happens and I just feel like that's been kind of
like a revelatory moment for some of the leaders in
the room to know that cultural transformation doesn't sound easy
and it is not. So how do we get started?
(16:12):
Can we make some progress even while we don't know
exactly what that ultimate destination is? Absolutely. It's recognizing the
fact that there are some things that don't align with
a consumer's needs in the way the health care is
delivered right now. So where can we start? It starts
with a mindset, but you have to have some buy
in to to recognize that it's okay to start thinking differently,
(16:34):
bringing some new ideas to the table. And then that's
when that magic happens.
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Beth (17:37):
And agree that at the top, it really needs to
start there because oftentimes it's, oh, we have a team
over here that's going to go off and they're going
to do this as if it is just a one
time project or it's something on the side as opposed
to a leader that starts to understand some of this.
They included in their day to day thinking. They integrated
(18:01):
in their questions that they're asking of their team. So
it really becomes part of that business culture. And it's
not just something that's on the side. You may have
a team that's driving specific initiatives, but if you're really
going to make that consumer transformation, your leaders have to
be talking the talk every day, all day long. What
(18:22):
do you think?
Jared (18:23):
100%. Yeah, it's got to start there. You have to
have even if it's not everyone, even if you're not 100%
on board, if they're willing to be in that room,
you know, philosophically speaking, and be willing to give it
a try, that's the only way you're going to make
some progress. And that is a very long term thing.
They've got to have some milestones along the way on
that journey, but it is a very, very long term
initiative that has to happen for sure.
Beth (18:44):
Now, you spend a lot of time talking about consumer transformation,
digital transformation with individuals and with organizations. Can you share
with us who you think is doing it well? Do
you have some examples where it's really happening?
Jared (18:59):
There's one of my favorite parts to to study about
what's happening right now and right in front of our eyes.
And thank you for asking. There are a couple that
came immediately to mind when you asked that and one
of them right off the top, because you mentioned transparency
a couple of times. Right. There are some examples out
there that are just killing it there. One of them
is Mark Cuban Cost plus drug Company. I don't know
(19:20):
if everyone knows about this that they launched earlier in 2022.
I mean, it's right. You have a billionaire entering the space, Right.
It's kind of like, well, what can he do? Well,
he has a website with hundreds of prescription drugs, generic drugs,
and he lists the full price. He says this is
the cost that it costs us to buy this from
the manufacturer. This is the margin we're adding. And this
(19:42):
is your cost period. You want it shipped to you.
Here you go. And that's the entire process. You can
look at the list. You can see any of the
drugs on there. You can compare it to anywhere else.
And it's just something that like it's I think we're
going to see this a lot over the next few
years of like, of course, why haven't we had this before?
(20:02):
The funny thing is, you know, Amazon Pharmacy does a
similar thing. They don't they don't add that that margin
of here's the markup we're adding. The amount of transparency
is so stark at first it's like, wait, how can
he be sharing this? And then it's like, Oh, well,
of course, why hasn't everyone else been doing this? I
expect this to happen more. You will have people shopping there.
(20:23):
I've seen and I've read people going on and they'll
find some some extreme cases. There are some chemotherapy drugs
on there that are like thousands of dollars a month normally,
and he's selling them for like a couple hundred. But
that gap, like the consumer awareness that it's bringing to
drug prices, is, I think, like the long term effect
that we'll see there. So just think that like somebody's
(20:45):
able to be able to come in and add such
radical transparency is is quite transforming another one. It's really
just a whole movement of direct primary care. Actually, I
can refer to Chen Med actually, who's one in kind
of in this direct primary care space. Direct primary care
refers to the movement of any version of primary care
(21:05):
that is being offered on a subscription basis. So for
a set price per month, you and or your family,
whoever are your dependents, whoever is covered on the plan
can come and see the provider as often as they
need for that one set price. You don't get charged
a per visit depending on their different levels of them.
(21:25):
Some don't direct interact with insurance at all like they
don't take insurance. And so it is simply a monthly benefit.
You can. Text them, call them, email them. Like the
other side of that is that their patient panel is smaller,
so they are aligned and incentivized to spend more time
with each patient. So like the purest form of direct
(21:47):
primary care, they might see a total of eight patients
a day, like they have an hour scheduled with each one.
That's still feeling pretty radical these days when it's again,
another one of those examples of like, why haven't we
always done this? And there are a lot of reasons,
you know, we don't have time to go into all
the business systems of how a primary care physician in
the traditional setting sets up their schedule. But the point
(22:10):
being like that, it sounds so refreshing and so radical
still that that a doctor has an hour scheduled to
talk with you and actually understand your medical history instead
of 15 minutes or 10 minutes. And they're running, you know,
30 minutes behind or whatever, an hour behind where they're
just squeezed for time and then referred to Chen Med,
who they they follow a direct primary care type model,
(22:32):
a subscription model for underserved seniors. And there are full
risk organizations. So they take on full risk for these
patients and they encourage more visits. I want to say
it's at least once a month where they are in
contact with their patients and they understand most of their
patients are medically complex. They have five or more conditions,
(22:52):
chronic conditions that they're dealing with. And so they they
can use a little bit more or a lot more
care in different ways. These are just things that are
kind of opening. They've opened my eyes and hopefully they
open up other people's eyes to see what's possible and
understand what choices are out there now.
Beth (23:05):
Yeah, Chen's obviously are very good at value based care,
and particularly seniors with multiple chronic conditions. They've been doing
it a really, really long time and they do a really,
really good job. Now, what's interesting is you share two examples,
one from I'd say withinside the industry, because the Chen's
have been doing it for a really, really long time.
And then an upstart in Mark Cuban, somebody from outside
(23:27):
the industry, are you seeing some of this transformation? What
are the influences? Are you seeing it mostly coming from
external influences or are you seeing some of the players
inside the industry really trying to make a difference?
Jared (23:41):
I've been trying to answer this question for for myself
for a few years now, Beth and I don't know
that I've landed on a full answer yet. I do
see more external influences simply because I feel like that's
the only way that some things are going to change.
And so maybe that's why I end up focusing on
some of them. I can look at a like an
Amazon or CVS Health that is committed, you know, several
(24:04):
hundred of their stores that won't be drugstores anymore. They'll
just be provider settings, they'll just be care settings. And
it sounds good like some of those definitely have more
influence and get more attention and more traction, at least
in the news cycle than others. And so I think
it does remain to be seen probably most days. I
feel like that's the only way that things are going
to change is that business is going to be taken
(24:27):
away from certain players and they're going to be forced
to innovate. And by the point that they get to
where they are, where they needed to be to compete, now,
it's going to take several years, and by then they're
going to need to be at a different point. So
I do think part of transformation is being more aware
than ever of what's happening and not just ignoring the
(24:50):
external influences. I think that's an important key here is
for leaders to not just. Say Mark Cuban like he's
not in health care. How could he impact anything I
do here? People like said, you know, I hear and
read and see people asking, wait, I just went on
his website and I found this prescription. It's cost this.
(25:11):
And even says like, this is how much it cost
me to buy it directly from the manufacturer. Why is
it costing this much more from my health plan, from
whatever benefits I've got? That's where I'm going with it.
I still don't know. I see external influences at the
very least, increasing and causing a change in our dialogue.
Beth (25:27):
Anything else that you would like to share with our
listeners around consumer transformation and how they should be thinking
about it?
Jared (25:34):
We can adopt an attitude of championing the transformation that
we need to happen. That's where I want to go
with it. I don't want to be sitting here and saying,
Here's what we need to do. Here's what we need
to do. I want to say like, here are the
organizations that are disrupting things. Here are the ones that
are making a change. What can we learn from them? Like,
let's rally around that. Let's champion that. Like, let's not
(25:55):
ignore it. Let's not pretend like it's not working. Let's
see what's ultimately going to benefit consumers and their health,
and let's find the way to align that with our
business systems. Let's find a way to make that profitable.
Let's find the way to find that overlap. And if
we do that, if we champion that, like everyone wins.
(26:15):
Businesses win, the major players win, but ultimately consumers win.
And that's where we want to see things go. That's
where I where I spend my time trying to understand
what's happening and what can happen. The more we do that,
the more we're going to be in a better place.
Beth (26:28):
It's rare, in my opinion, that companies who do the
right thing don't actually do well. If you do the
right thing, you'll do well because your customers will come
back again and again and again, and they will see
your your honesty. It's the companies that stick their head
in the sand or the companies that aren't transparent or
(26:51):
the companies that are shortsighted around their consumer experience that
lose not just in the long run, but in the
short run because the traction time for new emerging competitors
is getting shorter and shorter and shorter. And that's why
I think most companies really are looking to stay competitive.
So they are picking their head up. They are trying
(27:13):
to do the right thing. But that will be really important,
I think, for the long term. Now, Jared, we'd like
to ask our guests to share either book that is
inspire them or maybe something that they're currently reading. What
would you like to share with our listeners?
Jared (27:28):
One book that always, always asks me whenever I'm asked,
this is Killing Marketing. It's by Joe Polizzi and Robert Rose,
who were the founders of Content Marketing Institute, and they
became well known for helping organizations understand how to actually
implement a content marketing strategy. Well, but this book, Killing Marketing,
really spun me in a different direction because it caused
(27:51):
me to look at like, what's the purpose of marketing
in an organization and how can you do it better?
By actually putting they kind of followed a consumer transformation
model within marketing, which is like we keep saying that
we're putting the needs of consumers ahead like at the
beginning of the process, but are we really? And so
it just led me to a different thought process that's
called killing marketing. It's a few years old out there.
(28:12):
And then the most recent one that that I've really
enjoyed was reframing health care by Dr. Zev Neuwirth and
that talks about from a clinical side how clinicians can
embrace a marketing first philosophy and really focus on consumer's
needs within their patient journey from a clinical standpoint, how
we can reframe and experience. And so both of those
(28:33):
have just been really revelatory for me.
Beth (28:35):
Well, thank you for sharing that and thank you so
much for being on the podcast today and sharing your
thoughts and your perspective around consumer transformation and what it
is we need to do as leaders to really drive
it in our organizations. Appreciate you being.
Jared (28:48):
Here. Thanks so much, Beth. It's always a pleasure. Thanks
for tuning in. If you like what you heard, please
spread the word. Tell your colleagues to tune in for
all the awesomeness, then leave a review on Apple, Spotify
or wherever you listen. This show is produced by Shift
Forward Health The Channel for Change Makers. Subscribe to Shift
Forward Health on your favorite podcast app and you'll be
subscribed to our entire library of shows.
(29:10):
See our full lineup at Shift Forward Health one subscription
all the podcasts you need and it's all for free.
And remember, we might have a lot of work to
do in health care, but we'll get there faster together.
Thanks again.
Welcome to Health Care Mixtape, where we're curating the ultimate
playlist of health care content that you may have missed
the first time. Here. We share bonus episodes and greatest
hits from some of our favorite shows, as well as
exclusive interviews with industry insiders all focused on health care
changemakers and the disruption of the now. This show is
produced by Shift Forward Health, The Channel for Change Makers.
Subscribe to Shift Forward Health on your favorite podcast app
(00:26):
and you'll be subscribed to our entire Library of Shows
one subscription all the podcasts you need and it's all
for free. I'm Jared Johnson, your playlist curator, and it's
time to mix it up. All right. The next in
our Greatest Hits playlist is an episode of the Bee
Time podcast with Beth Bierbauer. Beth is a sought after
thought leader on consumerism who's served for more than 30 years.
(00:48):
For many of the top payers in the country, Beth
and I discussed consumer transformation, what it means, why it matters,
and which companies are embracing this concept as a means
to transform their businesses. I encourage you to subscribe to
the Bee Time podcast and I hope you get a
lot out of this episode. Check it out. Let the
mix begin.
Beth (01:03):
Jared, welcome to B time.
Jared (01:05):
Thank you so much. Beth I'm really excited to dive in.
Beth (01:07):
Well, thank you. We are really thrilled to have you here. Now, Jared,
our listeners are really familiar with the term digital transformation,
but perhaps less so with the term consumer transformation. Will
you share with us what does consumer transformation mean and
is it the same as consumer focused or consumer centric?
Jared (01:26):
Oh, great question. Okay. So this is a good starting
point for me. I've been I've been trying to work
on a definition myself because I feel like it has
continually been updating in my mind and I've asked around
a little bit recently. So I'm glad you asked this.
Here's my working definition and we can go off of
this and see where it takes us. But I feel
like when I'm talking about consumer transformation, I'm describing the
(01:47):
long term realignment of business systems, culture and financial incentives
around consumers expressed and unexpressed needs related to health care
in that, you know, in this sense that means the
things that consumers may not have shared. When I say
expressed and unexpressed, there are needs and desires that consumers
(02:09):
have well before they become a patient. And so designing
an experience around that does take a full level of transformation.
And that's where I'm referring to this long term alignment
of the pieces that need to happen before we ever
worry about marketing anything or before we ever worry about
what digital tools need to be in place to execute that.
(02:30):
It's the vision of what's happening in my mind prior to.
So consumer transformation is just that. It's a big piece
of that. You asked whether that's the same as consumer
centric or consumer focused. I feel like they're pretty close.
I feel like consumer centric or consumer focused, they're they're
positive steps towards consumer transformation. I feel like they are
ways that we describe our mindset or the tools that
(02:51):
we're using to undergo consumer transformation. So they might be
some of those steps that happen in between. There are
a lot of organizations out there that we've heard them
referred to as as the disruptors or innovators in the space.
And there's a lot of folks out there who have
who I feel like have made observations over the last
few years, have been studying the disruptors themselves. And it's
(03:14):
really anyone that we'd expect, all the ones we talk
about all the time, it feels like any presentation out
there has like that first slide of here's what's happening
to health care and here are all the disruptors. And
instead of everyone from the consumer brands, from the Amazons
and Walmarts and CVS to digital health brands to national providers,
to the Uniteds and Optum and Geisinger like regional providers.
(03:38):
And then we're now we're even talking about billionaires like
Mark Cuban entering the prescription drug space. He's created his
cost plus drug company. And we want to study their
disruptive DNA. We want to understand their mindset and what
what tools they're using to approach health care differently. So
all that's kind of packaged up together in that consumer
transformation journey in my mind.
Beth (03:58):
That's helpful. And I think the one thing that I
heard is a little bit different is than just being
consumer centric or consumer focus is really trying to anticipate
needs and also thinking about unmet needs. And when I
say unmet, it's not just that, Oh, I know I
have this issue and I would like somebody to help
me close the gap, if you will, but maybe I
(04:20):
should say unstated needs, right? Because that's something that Apple
was really very good at, really anticipating that, you know,
what the average consumer really would like to have a
camera on their phone and they really want to co-create
and create their own content. So I think this anticipation
and also thinking about unstated needs is really, really critical.
Jared (04:44):
Apple's the first example that came to my mind as well.
Hospitality and travel do that really well. Also, they are
so experience focused, they are going to anticipate what you
didn't realize would be useful, maybe based on a little
bit of feedback from from a handful of people who said, Oh, this,
that one thing that would have been cool if you
had done that for me, the hospitality industry is great
(05:06):
at at then scaling that and saying, let's make that
the standard for the experience for everybody and people not realizing,
Oh yeah, that that really was nice. So it is
definitely a new aspect of approaching the consumer side of
health care that quite frankly, we're still kind of getting
experience in and learning how to do better as an industry.
Beth (05:28):
Well, anybody who's ever lost a piece of luggage now
appreciates that in the app. It tells you when your
luggage has been boarded if you happen to be checking
a bag. And while that may not be 100% foolproof,
it certainly gives you a little bit more confidence that
when you arrive, your baggage will be on the same
plane with you. Now let's go to my next question,
(05:50):
which is digital transformation synonymous with consumer transformation? In my mind,
digital transformation is an important part of the overall consumer transformation.
It's integral, but I don't think it's exactly the same.
If you just did digital transformation, I'm not sure that
(06:11):
you would truly have consumer transformation.
Jared (06:15):
It's a really good distinction. I agree. There are a
couple of things that come to mind. A couple of
directions I could go with this and the first one
has just has to do with that. I feel like
digital transformation, you're right, it has been necessary and use
has been because we're far from done. We're far from
from checking the box and saying we we've done that
as an industry. But I've definitely feel like we are
(06:35):
making we've made a lot of progress. You look back
at 10 to 12 years ago and you make you
look at everything that's happened in terms of the digital
aspects of healthcare, and you can say we've made a
lot of progress. And to me, it's likened to to
the plumbing in a building, the digital transformation that we've
needed to do. And that's everything from make distinctions between
digitizing and existing business process like check in at a hospital.
(06:59):
It's the classic example of the part of the experience
that nobody wants to do. You want to get handed
a clipboard with a whole bunch of paperwork to fill out, right?
When you get to the office and you're already a
little tense or a little just anxious about what the
doctor's going to say, and then you have to fill
out all this information that most likely you've already provided
in the past in some way. And now if we
(07:20):
say that digital transformation and part of the experience in
this case would be now I'm filling that out on
an iPad. Well, that's great. You know, we've digitized an
existing process. You can't help but ask, though, like is
there if it still takes just as long. I've heard
this quote from from others in the industry and I
love it. It's just a great example. Like if it
(07:41):
takes just as long and you just happen to be
doing it on an iPad, you're still filling out 10
to 12 pages. Is it really that much better? There's
a lot of different aspects. You know, when I focus
on the consumer facing aspects of digital transformation, it's things
like that. It's these touch points that a consumer's coming
in and they become a patient. What are they remembering
as part of the experience? And we need a digital
(08:03):
transformation to happen. We need the plumbing to happen. We
needed new pipes. We needed new new ways of doing
things to accommodate what's going to be happening next. And
so to me, it's like we don't want to just say, Hey,
we finally redid all the plumbing for this building and
forget to build the building on top of it. And
to me, that building on top of it is is
(08:25):
a better consumer experience. So consumer transformation, I think, is
the next step. It's part of it. There's a lot
of overlap. There are things that that will involve digitizing
an existing process. Let's make that more efficient. Let's make
it easier, let's have less error involved and let's do that.
But let's not stop there. Let's recognize that there's more
(08:45):
to be done.
Beth (08:46):
Well, let's talk about some of the core tenets of
consumer transformation. So we've already talked about the processes. It's
not just digitizing the process. You really have to improve it,
make it very consumer oriented. But when I think about tenants,
I think about things like transparency is a core tenant.
Anytime I think you're looking at consumer transformation, it may
(09:09):
be the type of language that you use. What in
your mind, Jared Or some of those core tenets that
our listeners should be thinking about when they think about
true transformation.
Jared (09:19):
So I think number one is the fact that consumers
think more and more about. Their health care experience like
they do with other types of experiences, with any other
type of brand that we engage with on a day
to day basis. We don't wake up thinking about health
care in a different way anymore. We think, Hey, it
was a lot easier to transact with my bank today.
(09:41):
It was a lot easier to order something on Amazon.
It was a lot ordered, a lot easier to order
something from a restaurant. Now I can pick it up curbside.
We don't think about it and compartmentalize as consumers. We
don't compartmentalize those decisions anymore. And that's important to realize.
And so I feel like there are four critical business
components when it has to do with consumer transformation that
(10:02):
we need to focus on because they're all overlapping and
we can do a better job of connecting the dots here.
The first one is the business side. So what's the
actual encounter that's happening? What is the business process like?
How are we structured for the traditional hospital slash, payor
slash facility based experience that's been out there for decades?
(10:23):
Actually for a couple of centuries that has been come in,
see the doctor. The visit is the core component that
we transact around. And now we all know that that's
not the only way to engage with health care. So
we have to understand, like what's the business model? And
it's not just like one size fits all anymore. It's
not just come in and see a doctor. There's a
(10:45):
lot more to it. So the business model itself, that's
number one. Number two is the experience. It's designing experiences
and having the chops to understand some basic human centered
design and design thinking elements that have made their way
into a lot of businesses over the last the last
5 to 10 years, really the last 3 to 5 years.
(11:05):
And we just need to scale that. We need more
design thinking because that really does put the consumer at
the center of the change management process. And it's actually amazing.
It doesn't act when it's done right. It doesn't add
more work. It actually reduces the work that no one
wanted to do anyway. So the experience design is important.
That's the second one. The third one is the digital side.
(11:27):
We're just talking about digital transformation, right? So, hey, great,
Let's say you pulled in, we examined the business model,
we examined the experience that we want to design. Now
you have to build the experience. Now you have to
know what tools you need to make that possible. And
more and more that a deep digital knowledge is critical.
You have to now build that experience. And then the
(11:50):
fourth one is marketing in my mind, because marketers in
most organizations usually have the most consumer insights. They usually
know more about how a consumer behaves and how to
influence that behavior than than almost anyone else. So business experience,
digital and marketing are really the four critical business components
(12:11):
in my mind. And the more we connect those, the
more we start actually asking different questions.
Beth (12:16):
I think the most important thing in health care is
bringing consumer insights into health care. And that's not to
be confused with with a sick consumer or a patient.
It's just general consumer insights like the technology that they're
using that they've gained empowerment because there's transparency. Think about
(12:38):
the transparency in airfare that happened years ago and how
empowered consumers are now. So I think it's really important
to step out of that health care lane and health
care thinking and really understand what is it that consumers
are doing in other industries and in other aspects of
their their lives? Because to your point, there's this blending now,
(12:59):
whereas well, if I can have transparency here, why can't
I have it here? If I can do this on
my phone here, why can't I do it over here?
It isn't compartmentalized. They are no longer giving health care
a buy saying, Oh, well, your health care, you're more difficult.
I shouldn't be able to use my phone. They're saying, what?
What's the facts? I don't have a facts. What's the facts?
(13:21):
What do you mean? Can I just show you my
ID card on my phone? So I think that that's
really important. Now, when you think about this, Jared, you
name four tenants. I think they were really good. Is
it just the playbook or is there something more that's
needed beyond those four tenants? So if I if I
follow each of those, can I still have a miss here?
Jared (13:42):
Absolutely. A great, great lead up to this playbook. When
nobody's bought into it doesn't matter much. Maybe thinking in
football or basketball or baseball, you know, any hockey like
at any sport. If you've got the playbook, great. You
can put all the time and effort into that and
drawing up all the plays. And yet if you don't
(14:02):
have buy in, especially from the top, if people don't
understand what the playbooks for or they're challenging it so
much and they they just haven't tried it out enough, Yeah,
it's not going to it's only going to take you
so far. It's not going to get to the place
where you want to go. And so that really does
lead to a cultural transformation that has to happen Now,
You know, health care and cultural transformations have had a
mixed track record over the years. I was. Find it
(14:25):
interesting if anyone, you know, really challenged that. I think
it's pretty safe to say that we're not all the
way where we want to go culturally within health care organizations.
There's a lot of historical. Order to things and structure
where if you questioned it, you know, it just didn't
(14:45):
go anywhere. There is a culture of transformation that's going
to have to happen. And the interesting thing about I
think I can tie back to the experience design side
of those components we were just talking about. So I've
been I've had the fortune of being able to be
in a few design thinking workshops, and the craziest thing
happens in these things and any anyone who's listening, who's
(15:07):
been able to be a part of of any type
of design thinking workshop or human centered design workshop or
event of any kind may well have experienced the same thing.
But in the ones I've been in, we've had a
lot of leaders in the room who some some were
more bought into the process than others, shall we say.
But by the end what happened was a bit of
(15:28):
a magical experience where everyone left understanding the value of
of how they just changed their thinking. They realized that
you brought a whole bunch of perspectives into the room
that don't typically sit at the table at the same time.
And they all were focused on the problem that they're
trying to solve. It could be trying to make things
easier for for patients. It could be making trying to
(15:50):
trying to improve the business model so that we can
be more efficient, whatever the actual problem is you're trying
to solve in those workshops is really interesting. I've just
been able to see some of that, that magic that
happens and I just feel like that's been kind of
like a revelatory moment for some of the leaders in
the room to know that cultural transformation doesn't sound easy
and it is not. So how do we get started?
(16:12):
Can we make some progress even while we don't know
exactly what that ultimate destination is? Absolutely. It's recognizing the
fact that there are some things that don't align with
a consumer's needs in the way the health care is
delivered right now. So where can we start? It starts
with a mindset, but you have to have some buy
in to to recognize that it's okay to start thinking differently,
(16:34):
bringing some new ideas to the table. And then that's
when that magic happens.
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Beth (17:37):
And agree that at the top, it really needs to
start there because oftentimes it's, oh, we have a team
over here that's going to go off and they're going
to do this as if it is just a one
time project or it's something on the side as opposed
to a leader that starts to understand some of this.
They included in their day to day thinking. They integrated
(18:01):
in their questions that they're asking of their team. So
it really becomes part of that business culture. And it's
not just something that's on the side. You may have
a team that's driving specific initiatives, but if you're really
going to make that consumer transformation, your leaders have to
be talking the talk every day, all day long. What
(18:22):
do you think?
Jared (18:23):
100%. Yeah, it's got to start there. You have to
have even if it's not everyone, even if you're not 100%
on board, if they're willing to be in that room,
you know, philosophically speaking, and be willing to give it
a try, that's the only way you're going to make
some progress. And that is a very long term thing.
They've got to have some milestones along the way on
that journey, but it is a very, very long term
initiative that has to happen for sure.
Beth (18:44):
Now, you spend a lot of time talking about consumer transformation,
digital transformation with individuals and with organizations. Can you share
with us who you think is doing it well? Do
you have some examples where it's really happening?
Jared (18:59):
There's one of my favorite parts to to study about
what's happening right now and right in front of our eyes.
And thank you for asking. There are a couple that
came immediately to mind when you asked that and one
of them right off the top, because you mentioned transparency
a couple of times. Right. There are some examples out
there that are just killing it there. One of them
is Mark Cuban Cost plus drug Company. I don't know
(19:20):
if everyone knows about this that they launched earlier in 2022.
I mean, it's right. You have a billionaire entering the space, Right.
It's kind of like, well, what can he do? Well,
he has a website with hundreds of prescription drugs, generic drugs,
and he lists the full price. He says this is
the cost that it costs us to buy this from
the manufacturer. This is the margin we're adding. And this
(19:42):
is your cost period. You want it shipped to you.
Here you go. And that's the entire process. You can
look at the list. You can see any of the
drugs on there. You can compare it to anywhere else.
And it's just something that like it's I think we're
going to see this a lot over the next few
years of like, of course, why haven't we had this before?
(20:02):
The funny thing is, you know, Amazon Pharmacy does a
similar thing. They don't they don't add that that margin
of here's the markup we're adding. The amount of transparency
is so stark at first it's like, wait, how can
he be sharing this? And then it's like, Oh, well,
of course, why hasn't everyone else been doing this? I
expect this to happen more. You will have people shopping there.
(20:23):
I've seen and I've read people going on and they'll
find some some extreme cases. There are some chemotherapy drugs
on there that are like thousands of dollars a month normally,
and he's selling them for like a couple hundred. But
that gap, like the consumer awareness that it's bringing to
drug prices, is, I think, like the long term effect
that we'll see there. So just think that like somebody's
(20:45):
able to be able to come in and add such
radical transparency is is quite transforming another one. It's really
just a whole movement of direct primary care. Actually, I
can refer to Chen Med actually, who's one in kind
of in this direct primary care space. Direct primary care
refers to the movement of any version of primary care
(21:05):
that is being offered on a subscription basis. So for
a set price per month, you and or your family,
whoever are your dependents, whoever is covered on the plan
can come and see the provider as often as they
need for that one set price. You don't get charged
a per visit depending on their different levels of them.
(21:25):
Some don't direct interact with insurance at all like they
don't take insurance. And so it is simply a monthly benefit.
You can. Text them, call them, email them. Like the
other side of that is that their patient panel is smaller,
so they are aligned and incentivized to spend more time
with each patient. So like the purest form of direct
(21:47):
primary care, they might see a total of eight patients
a day, like they have an hour scheduled with each one.
That's still feeling pretty radical these days when it's again,
another one of those examples of like, why haven't we
always done this? And there are a lot of reasons,
you know, we don't have time to go into all
the business systems of how a primary care physician in
the traditional setting sets up their schedule. But the point
(22:10):
being like that, it sounds so refreshing and so radical
still that that a doctor has an hour scheduled to
talk with you and actually understand your medical history instead
of 15 minutes or 10 minutes. And they're running, you know,
30 minutes behind or whatever, an hour behind where they're
just squeezed for time and then referred to Chen Med,
who they they follow a direct primary care type model,
(22:32):
a subscription model for underserved seniors. And there are full
risk organizations. So they take on full risk for these
patients and they encourage more visits. I want to say
it's at least once a month where they are in
contact with their patients and they understand most of their
patients are medically complex. They have five or more conditions,
(22:52):
chronic conditions that they're dealing with. And so they they
can use a little bit more or a lot more
care in different ways. These are just things that are
kind of opening. They've opened my eyes and hopefully they
open up other people's eyes to see what's possible and
understand what choices are out there now.
Beth (23:05):
Yeah, Chen's obviously are very good at value based care,
and particularly seniors with multiple chronic conditions. They've been doing
it a really, really long time and they do a really,
really good job. Now, what's interesting is you share two examples,
one from I'd say withinside the industry, because the Chen's
have been doing it for a really, really long time.
And then an upstart in Mark Cuban, somebody from outside
(23:27):
the industry, are you seeing some of this transformation? What
are the influences? Are you seeing it mostly coming from
external influences or are you seeing some of the players
inside the industry really trying to make a difference?
Jared (23:41):
I've been trying to answer this question for for myself
for a few years now, Beth and I don't know
that I've landed on a full answer yet. I do
see more external influences simply because I feel like that's
the only way that some things are going to change.
And so maybe that's why I end up focusing on
some of them. I can look at a like an
Amazon or CVS Health that is committed, you know, several
(24:04):
hundred of their stores that won't be drugstores anymore. They'll
just be provider settings, they'll just be care settings. And
it sounds good like some of those definitely have more
influence and get more attention and more traction, at least
in the news cycle than others. And so I think
it does remain to be seen probably most days. I
feel like that's the only way that things are going
to change is that business is going to be taken
(24:27):
away from certain players and they're going to be forced
to innovate. And by the point that they get to
where they are, where they needed to be to compete, now,
it's going to take several years, and by then they're
going to need to be at a different point. So
I do think part of transformation is being more aware
than ever of what's happening and not just ignoring the
(24:50):
external influences. I think that's an important key here is
for leaders to not just. Say Mark Cuban like he's
not in health care. How could he impact anything I
do here? People like said, you know, I hear and
read and see people asking, wait, I just went on
his website and I found this prescription. It's cost this.
(25:11):
And even says like, this is how much it cost
me to buy it directly from the manufacturer. Why is
it costing this much more from my health plan, from
whatever benefits I've got? That's where I'm going with it.
I still don't know. I see external influences at the
very least, increasing and causing a change in our dialogue.
Beth (25:27):
Anything else that you would like to share with our
listeners around consumer transformation and how they should be thinking
about it?
Jared (25:34):
We can adopt an attitude of championing the transformation that
we need to happen. That's where I want to go
with it. I don't want to be sitting here and saying,
Here's what we need to do. Here's what we need
to do. I want to say like, here are the
organizations that are disrupting things. Here are the ones that
are making a change. What can we learn from them? Like,
let's rally around that. Let's champion that. Like, let's not
(25:55):
ignore it. Let's not pretend like it's not working. Let's
see what's ultimately going to benefit consumers and their health,
and let's find the way to align that with our
business systems. Let's find a way to make that profitable.
Let's find the way to find that overlap. And if
we do that, if we champion that, like everyone wins.
(26:15):
Businesses win, the major players win, but ultimately consumers win.
And that's where we want to see things go. That's
where I where I spend my time trying to understand
what's happening and what can happen. The more we do that,
the more we're going to be in a better place.
Beth (26:28):
It's rare, in my opinion, that companies who do the
right thing don't actually do well. If you do the
right thing, you'll do well because your customers will come
back again and again and again, and they will see
your your honesty. It's the companies that stick their head
in the sand or the companies that aren't transparent or
(26:51):
the companies that are shortsighted around their consumer experience that
lose not just in the long run, but in the
short run because the traction time for new emerging competitors
is getting shorter and shorter and shorter. And that's why
I think most companies really are looking to stay competitive.
So they are picking their head up. They are trying
(27:13):
to do the right thing. But that will be really important,
I think, for the long term. Now, Jared, we'd like
to ask our guests to share either book that is
inspire them or maybe something that they're currently reading. What
would you like to share with our listeners?
Jared (27:28):
One book that always, always asks me whenever I'm asked,
this is Killing Marketing. It's by Joe Polizzi and Robert Rose,
who were the founders of Content Marketing Institute, and they
became well known for helping organizations understand how to actually
implement a content marketing strategy. Well, but this book, Killing Marketing,
really spun me in a different direction because it caused
(27:51):
me to look at like, what's the purpose of marketing
in an organization and how can you do it better?
By actually putting they kind of followed a consumer transformation
model within marketing, which is like we keep saying that
we're putting the needs of consumers ahead like at the
beginning of the process, but are we really? And so
it just led me to a different thought process that's
called killing marketing. It's a few years old out there.
(28:12):
And then the most recent one that that I've really
enjoyed was reframing health care by Dr. Zev Neuwirth and
that talks about from a clinical side how clinicians can
embrace a marketing first philosophy and really focus on consumer's
needs within their patient journey from a clinical standpoint, how
we can reframe and experience. And so both of those
(28:33):
have just been really revelatory for me.
Beth (28:35):
Well, thank you for sharing that and thank you so
much for being on the podcast today and sharing your
thoughts and your perspective around consumer transformation and what it
is we need to do as leaders to really drive
it in our organizations. Appreciate you being.
Jared (28:48):
Here. Thanks so much, Beth. It's always a pleasure. Thanks
for tuning in. If you like what you heard, please
spread the word. Tell your colleagues to tune in for
all the awesomeness, then leave a review on Apple, Spotify
or wherever you listen. This show is produced by Shift
Forward Health The Channel for Change Makers. Subscribe to Shift
Forward Health on your favorite podcast app and you'll be
subscribed to our entire library of shows.
(29:10):
See our full lineup at Shift Forward Health one subscription
all the podcasts you need and it's all for free.
And remember, we might have a lot of work to
do in health care, but we'll get there faster together.
Thanks again.
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