David Kelly's Kokoda Experience x 2

This week I had a chat with David Kelly who did Kokoda back in 2019 and then again in 2024, but this time added in the Northern Beaches. 
We chatted about the differences between the two trips, five years apart and what he did differently this time to prepare. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apodjay production.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
This podcast is proudly brought to you by Adventure Professionals
www dot Adventure Professionals dot com dot au.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
For me, Mission Ridge and Brigade Hill. The whole Kakoda campaign.
More people need to know about it. I know everyone
knows someone who's trek Kakoda, but to actually understand the
stories of what these young guys did, it's harrowing what
they went through.

Speaker 4 (00:31):
They were staunched to the end against odds uncountered, and
they fell with their faces to the.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Welcome to the Kakoda Track Podcast. Hosted by former Soljet
Glen Asar. This is the place to hear stories from
those who've trecked Kakoda and gained tips and knowledge about
what to expect on the track, or to relive your
own amazing experiences. The Kakoda Track Podcast keeping the spirit
of Kakoda alive.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Hey Roanngblo here, Walking back to the Kokoda Track Podcast
now once again, as I have done over the last
few weeks, I just want to thank everyone for the
constant feedback around all the new episodes. It's been fun.
A lot of the episodes I've been doing of late
of all come from that Anzac period and today's different.
I've got David Kelly chatting with me today. Now this
is this Anzac was David's second Kokoda experience, although we

(01:28):
did add in the Northern Beaches, so we'll get to
talk a bit about that, which he didn't do the
first time through the first time he did it with
a Mates for Mates group that was including sponsorship from
Australian Defense Apparel who makes all of our gear that
we use in the military, clothing, backpacks and all that
sort of stuff. So that was a great experience, and
then we get to talk about the comparison of the
two experiences that he has five six years apart, or

(01:51):
whatever the case may be. Now, the most common question
still that comes up around Kakoda is the physical preparation.
And it's almost like there's so much information out there
now that it's almost too much. So I guess my
bigg advice to you is that I do have an
online program. It's an eight week video program and you
can just access that on the Adventure Professional's website or

(02:15):
I'm in the middle of building that into an app
so it'll actually be in your hand and be able
to take it into the gym with you, and I'm
hoping that i'll be live, you know, sort of by midyear.
There's a bit of a process. I've done as much
as I can do, but now it comes down to
you know, Google and Apple doing their processes before they
release something to be live. So that's it's not too
far off. I don't think now that's got Cocoda in

(02:36):
it at the moment, but eventually it'll have trekking programs,
fitness programs for Ossie ten peaks for Mount Everspace camp
for Mount Kilman Jarro, just for general treking as well,
and in those videos, I will constantly be adding in
Q and a's FAQ's that sort of stuff with people
or answering questions around equipment, around what to expect on

(02:57):
each of those trips and so on. So it'll be
much deeper than just having a fitness program, but it'll
certainly answer the most common coques that I get, which
is around how do I make sure that I'm fit
enough to enjoy the experience. So that's all coming up again.
If you're enjoying the show, please jump onto whatever platform
you're listening to the show and rate it because i'd

(03:17):
really appreciate that because it just puts it in front
of more ears and allows people who are going to
Kakota soon to be adequately prepared. Whether they're going with me,
or whether they're going to adventure professionals or whether they're going
with someone else, doesn't matter. What I truly want is
that everyone who goes on the track to have the
best experience they possibly can, and to make sure that
they are ready for that experience. So with all of

(03:39):
that said, let's move on to the episode. Chatting with
David Kelly. The interesting thing about doing your episode is
going to be that you've done Kakota twice. How long
was it between them? Was it five or six years?

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Five years? Just under years? Year four and half?

Speaker 3 (03:55):
All right, so say we've got five years between trips,
so we're going to have the two comparisons, which is
cool but I guess, and then we can talk about
the Northern Beaches add on. She is also another cool
part that you did the second time around. So just
taught me through this most recent cocoder experience for you
and maybe a comparison to your first one as well,

(04:16):
just in general sort of in a if you were
just chatting to a friend for five minutes and they said, oh,
you've don't cot coding, and you've done it twice, what
would you sort of be talking about?

Speaker 1 (04:26):
The main things that I focus on, because I've been
having these conversations since I came home. The main things
that I focused on is the difference in terms of preparation.
So this time around, I was much better physically prepared
than I was the last time, and the last time
I was prepared, like I got through it. I didn't really.

(04:46):
I think I hurt my ankle a couple of days,
well maybe four days in, and I kind of kept
that to myself for a while. And then Sammy on
my last trip kind of saw me limping a bit
and said, what's wrong with your foot? And I said,
I rolled my ankle and she said when I said
about three days ago, you're supposed to tell us this stuff.
And this time around, Yeah, I got through and to

(05:08):
end physically unscathed, which was good. And I put a
lot of that down to just knowing the second time
around where I went wrong in terms of physical preparation.
And I was also twenty kilos lighter this time than
I was the last one.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, I was going to say. That's the first thing
that I would point out is that you had lost
so much weight between the first and you I think
you'd trimmed down a bit for the first one from
where you would start your start point was.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, it was in twenty and eighteen when I was
supposed to initially go. I was one hundred and twenty
seven kilos and I was physically incapable of going. So
I won the initial trip with you guys and through
mates for mates and eighty eight. That's right, yeah, and yeah,

(05:58):
there's no way I could have done that twenty eighteen trip.
I was morbidly obese and would have never been able
to do it. So they gave me twelve months to
kind of get myself prepped, and I got myself down
to I think it was one hundred and fifteen or
one hundred and sixteen, so I lost quite a bit.
But then I put a little bit back on before
we went, and I ended up at one hundred and

(06:19):
sixteen and I lost eight kilns on the track the
last time around, which was pretty cool. But this time around,
in terms of the difference, I would say that, yeah,
physical preparation was better. Mental preparation was better because I
knew how tough it was going to be, and so
I got to kind of you know, I don't want

(06:40):
to sound like a warrior or anything, but I had
a chance to steal my mind and be prepared for it.
And Yeah, the other thing is I could actually have
a conversation this time around the last time I had
to choose between talking and breathing. You were in last time, mate,
I was staring at I had Paul as my port

(07:01):
of the first trip, and I literally I could ski
h call heels from memory because I spent my whole
time looking down at his feet and exactly what you said,
I was in survival.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
What did you are starting this one?

Speaker 1 (07:18):
I was ninety seven.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
That's unbelievable to be under the triple figures.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
It was the first time in over fifteen years. And
I'm still down, which is good. I'm still under. I
haven't trained anywhere near as hard coming home, but I'm
about to kick it back up because I'm going to
do the city to surf.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
I was going to get off Kakada a little. Do
you think you need something to train for?

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Like?

Speaker 3 (07:43):
How old are you now?

Speaker 1 (07:45):
I'm forty three?

Speaker 3 (07:46):
Yeah, and I find this is my experience. And when
I was outside of the military, I like to exercise,
and I do this for a job. But if you
haven't got a thing to train for, as you get older,
oh this is me anyway, I find that I'm just
not quite as motivated.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Do you have that, Yeah, I'm exactly the same. So
after the last trip, I think, I out to you
after about a month and I was like, I go
to the gym and it doesn't mean anything, and I
kind of I would get in there and I would
kind of just sash around a little bit and kind of,
you know, I hit the machines that it was all
half hearted. There was no intensity in my cardio because
I wasn't I didn't have something that I was killing

(08:23):
myself for. Whereas the last time, I was like when
I started to struggle when I was doing kind of
you know, the heavy cardio sessions, it'd be like, you know,
suffer now so that you can enjoy later. But then
when you come home, you've climbed the mountain, you've done
this thing, you've hit your goal and survive, and then
you're like, oh, well for what.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, I didn't think about a kokoda or a city
to serve or whatever. Is that there's a bit of
fear factor, right, like, because you think, well, that day
is coming, whether I'm ready or not. And yeah, with
the first one where you missed out and they let
your wait a year, it would have been almost embarrassing
to have to go, I still haven't done the work
and have to wait another year. So yeah, you kind

(09:03):
of the fear factor of that date is coming, whether
I like it or not.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah, they really put it in perspective though, because I
was really really doubting myself. And my wife is amazing
at kind of knowing what to say, when to say it,
and how to say it. And I was kind of
talking to her one day and expressing my fears as
a husband can sometimes do to his wife, and she

(09:27):
kind of looked at me and she goes, yeah, you're
probably right. You shouldn't go. And I went what And
she says, yeah, you know, you shouldn't go, Like you
don't deserve the spot. They should give it to somebody
who really was willing to put in the work and
deserve it. And I went, how dare he was? Got
up on my high horse and she just smiled and
you know, cocked my little tirade. And then after about

(09:47):
four weeks I said to her, I think you tripped me,
and she said, I think that I know what to
say and when to say it was and by then
it was too late. I was trapped and trick.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
That's awesome, And I'd like, that's what it takes. It's
called you know where they've got a reverse psychology, we use.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
A reverse equality. Yeah, you shouldn't give edges.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
And that's a big thing, right with when I talk
training with people, because training is a topic that comes
up a lot. I said, but the reason I want
you to train as hard as you do is I
want it to be easier than you expect it to be,
and so that you're not just looking down at your feet.
I say that all the time on the potty. But
to give people context, I guess, because the training question
comes up a lot. What was the difference? What did

(10:29):
you do more of or what did you add in
this time, knowing what you knew from the first experience.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
So I followed exactly the same training program both times.
So Mates for Mates provided us with a training program
the last time, and I still had that in my email.
And so what I did, and I actually I've written
all down something I can give you an idea. I
had a body weight once a week a body weight
session and that was sit up, squat, step up, and

(10:57):
it was step up for time as opposed to numbers,
so it was a minute of intense and then a
minute of kind of not as in. But for me
that turned out to just be a constant set pace,
which was pretty intense because I wanted to again really
challenge myself lunges, crunches, bridges, lying side hip raises which

(11:21):
I had to google how to do at jump squads
and wall sits. That was my body weight routine and
that was once a week and then everything else was walking,
and it was I had one day a week where
I walked for time and it was about ninety minutes
with a pack, and I started out with about ten

(11:43):
kilos and by the end of it I was doing
about seventeen kilos. I had one stairs workout, so we've
got a pretty solidity of stairs near my place and
it's quite steep and I would just do you know,
twenty reps of that and every up was doubles, so
I was doing the stairs two at a time. I

(12:05):
had a hills workout which beside that set of stairs.
It's basically a way to link two streets this stead
of stairs, and they just cut the staircase into a
pretty steep hill. So what I did was put my
pack on and I walked up the hill beside the stairs.
But that was backwards and that was the thing I
didn't do the last time that I did incorporate this time,

(12:27):
and part of that was bulletproofing the knees. So I
came home the last time and I linked for three months.
My knees were cooked. I felt like I had glass
in my knees for the better part of three months
after the last trip. And this time around, I got
off the plane Friday night, I was back in the
gym on Sunday, and I was back at jiu jitsu

(12:49):
the following week, which for me, that was a game changer.
Those backwards walking, but strengthening the knees was yes phenomenon.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
So the real difference this time around was obviously the
backwards walking. I wasn't any but if you followed the
exact same program, the real difference was intensity.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Intensity, but also the backward was walking was a big thing,
but also a lot more call work, so the bridges,
the line hip raisers there, the sit ups and the crunches.
I didn't do a lot of that last time because
I couldn't physically, so I was like, you probably don't
need to do that stuff, and it turns out you
probably do, apparently having core strength. Not that it helped me,

(13:36):
not for anyone who was with me or in my
vicinity knows that I'm I owned myself a nickname pothole
because I was to be avoided at all costs. I
my my biggest embarrassing moment on this trip was that
I slipped getting out of the way. I've here how
of all people you would not porters run, but they don't.

(13:59):
They don't walk that when they're not when like the
group porters they're running, they're not. They're not hanging a out.
I tried to get out of their way and I
kind of stepped out of their way slip and took
one out.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
Might have loved you.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
Oh the dude he was he looked sixty if he
was a day and he was from a different company.
And as on my feet went out, I clipped his
heels and sent him flying and he landed, didn't fall.
I fell. He turns around and goes, are you okay?
And I was like, am I are you okay? And
he said I didn't fall and then he just sent
around he ship running and Calvin, my porter, looked at

(14:38):
me and he was like the okay brother. I was like, y,
I'm good, just embarrassed, and he said that's okay. You'll
always be embarrassed. He was really good.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
That's cracker.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
So the only other thing I did with in terms
of the hiking sorry that the training was also two
long walks like the weekend, I did progressively longer pack
marches and it was it kind of started out because
it was a twelve week program. It started out at
about five k at my long list it was twenty five. Yeah,
and that was with seventeen killers on my back. And

(15:11):
what I found with that is I was training in
my local area. So a lot of it was cement,
which is a great way to prepare for the jungle.
It's so different. And it was all about getting ka's
in the legs because I didn't want to have to
drive two hours to then go and do a five
hour height to drive two hours home.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, that's fair, and I just my whole.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Thing was just get the ka's in the legs and
then deal with the terrain when it comes.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
Well, it's an old thing saying do what you can
with what you've got where you are.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yeah, like people are talking about perfect situations. I know.
When you know my daughter was training for Mount Everest,
people say, oh, you can't train at Mount Couther or
we're training on the side of the Tomba Range, you
can't train there for Mount Everest. Well that's like saying
you have to climb Mount Everest in order to be
able to train to climb Maunt Everest, which doesn't make
sense either. But the fact is if we had bigger
mountains in Australia would have used them. If you had

(16:03):
the right terrain right next door to you, you wore
to use it. But it makes sense that you don't
want to turn a five hour session into a nine
hour session because I understand we have life on the
other side of it. So yeah, you just do There's
no perfect scenario, but there's do what you can with
what you've got where you are. It just makes sense.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
The other thing that I did was I actually schedule
all of my training the whole twelve weeks at the
very beginning. So the weekend before my twelve weeks started,
I opened up my Google calendar and I sat down
and every day was planned out for twelve weeks. I
love it. I love that, and I did it the

(16:43):
last time as well, And so part of it was accountability.
Part of it was that I didn't want to have
to think and look for a plan and oh what
am I going to do to Oh, I don't feel
like that, this is what today is and whatever else
I'm doing today, this has to get done. And the
good thing about that my wife and I share a
calendar because we're both working. It allows us to know

(17:06):
what each other is, what the plan is for the week,
so that we can kind of run a household. So
she also knew it was coming out. We had things
like birthday parties and stuff like my son had his
birthday during that period, and we got to plan our
social life. But also it was planned around my training,
and she would just tell people, you know, yeah, we
can come to your party, but Dave's got to work

(17:27):
five hours her And in one of the days we
got invited to her first birthday, I had to walk
eighteen ks. I walked three quarters of the way to
the party and she just picked me up on the
side of the road and then we turned up. Faithfully,
it was at a swimming center, so it didn't matter
that I dunk like death. I just turned up, walked in,

(17:49):
had a shower, and then jump in the swimming pool,
which was great. Everyone was like, gee, you have read that.
I was like, yeah, I just walked in eighteen facts.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
Well, makes you glad you clarify that, because otherwise we're
going to have people walking eighteen ks into a wedding.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Well, this is probably very true. I wouldn't do it
if I had to wear a suit.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
But I love this scheduling idea because, as you know,
I do a lot of mentoring and coaching through the
Building Better Humans project, and one of the things I'm
actually talking to a group that I'm working with at
the moment today, I've got a session with them which
is all around prioritizing their health and fitness because they're
all people of their own businesses or in manage your roles,
leadership roles, and they get busy like we all do,
and they have trouble fitting it in. And one of

(18:28):
the things I always say is schedule it like it's
an appointment that you will not and cannot change because
if you give it that level of importance. But what
a lot of us do is if we schedule it
and then someone else wants to take an appointment in
that time, so we just say yes. But when you've
got something like Kakoda on the horizon, you've got to
make it an important piece of co coda. Not the
ten days over there or the twelve days over there,

(18:49):
but the twelve weeks and minimum leading up to it.
So you know, I really like that idea of making
your training and non negotiable scheduling it, and by having
your wife there too in the schedule, she can tell
of your skip and stuff. Well, you meant to be
out training today.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah. A couple of times, you know, I had niggling
injuries or whatever, and to kind of look at me
and go, did you walk today? Yes? I did, Thank
you for asking. Look, I remember the last time. I
just want to make sure you're ready. So yeah, it's
good to have that accountability, buddy. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
One of the questions I always ask on Kakoda, and
you would know that listening to the podcast is what
people's expectations of the track were versus the reality because
a lot of the time we don't really know what
to expect. Well, I'm going to ask that in a
different way. You had that first experience and now you've
got the second experience. So what did you take out
differently or notice more of the second time around on

(19:44):
this trip? And obviously there's a benefit of one doing
it a second time, but also you were fitter, so
maybe you had more capacity to take things in. But
what was an enhanced experience because you'd been there before?

Speaker 1 (19:58):
For me, I think I got to really look at
the scenery this time around. I really it was such
a beautiful, breathtakingly spectacular country that I didn't really I
don't think I really got to take that in the
last time. But also in terms of the difference of

(20:19):
the actual track itself, we kind of correct me if
I'm wrong, But we went at the end of the
wet season, so turkling seasons only just kind of just
really started up, hasn't it. That's right, Yeah, And I
found it to be a lot wetter this time around
than it was previously. Just the track itself, the weather
actually was pretty good.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
Because mates for Mate one was the end of like
September October, wasn't it.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah, it was August Stember I and so the track
was a lot drier that time. During that period we
did get a little bit of rain, but not a lot.
And this time around we did a little bit of
rain as well, but not too much.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
It was around this is I said this on poddies
the last couple of weeks, but it was far more
humid than I can remember the track being in probably
a decade. So what was quite a humid week.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
My clothes were dripping every day, and I just put
that down to obesity, but it must also have something
to do with the weather. But yeah, my shorts. I
found that that was because your shirt is always wet.
But my short that felt like I got out of
a swimming pool or jumped out of a river. Sometimes
you're ripping constantly. And it was just something that you

(21:35):
learn to live with. It's you know, you're always going
to be wet, it's just the levels that change.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
Did you take different sets of clothes, because that's always
a question that comes up. Clothing and equipment. I always
put down to take minimal because you're going to be
able to carry it all. But and my opinion is
much like you said, we're going to be wet all
the time. Anyways, there's not much point in having seven
sets of clothes, most of which aren't going to be
dry if you changed every day. Other people go, well,
I want something fresh every day, but within five minutes

(22:04):
to walk, you're waiting to get anyway from sweat or rain.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah. So this time around, I took three sets. The
last time around, I had four sets. This time around,
I took three. I only wore two, and I would
never if I ever do it again, I won't take
the third set. I just I had a shirt that
I had with that I was wearing, and a shirt
that I had that was in my bag, and I
had two pairs of shorts, and I just rotated, kind

(22:29):
of mixed and matched my outfits depending on my mood
for the day. And then what I did do was
I packed a pair of underwear and a pair of
stocks for every day because I didn't want chase and
I had problems with my feet leading in And I
remember reading somewhere once that when it comes to hiking

(22:49):
and these big type of trips, you pack your fears.
And I had fears that I was going to chase,
and I had fears that my feet were going to
fall apart, and so I had a very big blister
pack and stocks for every day, and I did not
use any of the blister path because the socks.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
That is smart though, because a lot of people. I've
had people that turn up that know that they have,
you know, dodgy knees or have had knee injuries in
the past or ankles, and they don't bring stapping tape.
And I think there's only so much in the med kid.
It takes a bit. So if you know you've got things,
I like that idea. I did a podcast which hasn't
gone live at the time that we're talking, but we'll
have by the time this does with Todd and Kate,

(23:31):
and they are the same. They took seven sets of underwear,
socks and underwear for the I guess for the same
reasons and they were very happy with that decision.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah. The one thing that you don't want when you're
in a jungle environment is chafed, and I, yeah, a
couple of I was willing to bear the brunt of
ten twelve pairs of unders because, as you said, I
did Northern beaches as well, so I had to take
enough to get me through the entirety. But that yet,

(23:59):
I definitely I would recommend clean socks, clean jocks for
every day and everything else can just kind of deal
with it, because, as we said, you know, you're always wet.
A very wise man on my previous trip said to
me my wet weather plan and my dry weather plan
of the same. You're going to be wet, I think,
And yeah, I think you do too. You should know
him well. But I trained that way as well. So

(24:21):
this time around I looked forward to the fact that
I was training in the rain without wet weather gear.
Kind of we just were a hoodie to keep the
rain off because Sydney rain is different to Papa New
Guinea rain. It's still cold here. But yeah, I just
I trained in the rain intentionally so that I could
get used to walking wet underload and just to make

(24:44):
sure that everything wouldn't rub in ways that I didn't
want it to. And it also just kind of strengthened
your mind a little bit that you know, it could
be worse. I could be climbing a mountain when I'm wet,
and then when you get over there, you see, well
it could be worse. I could not be able to
climb a mountain while I'm here. So you're always looking
on the bright side if you can.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
So we talk about the you diferences obviously between the
two trips, but the other obvious difference is you did
go to the Northern Beaches. Give us a little sort
of rundown on what that trip was like for you.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
I loved the Northern Beaches. My granddad fought in the
second ninth and on our day that we went out
to is it Booner or Buner, I'm.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
So when we went out to Buner, there's a there's
kind of a little memorial, a little not really little,
but there's a memorial there and that's got all of
the different units that served in that area, and the
Second Night was mentioned in it. So I got some
photos of that. And then there was a bloke who
they did a little right up of in the Buna
Museum and there's a news article there. Unfortunately he was killed,

(25:51):
but he was in the Second Night as well, and
so that from a military history standpoint, that was great
for me because my grandfather served in that area and
so I really enjoyed that. And also the Sannander lodgings
are spectacular. It's actually almost like a false sense of

(26:12):
security leading into Dakota knowing what I knew. And then
we're sleeping in these really comfortable foam mattresses with a
pillow and a mosquito net. You can hear the waves
lapping on the ocean, on the ocean, and then we
had lobster. Ambrose comes out and goes, oh, we've got
your right, but do you guys like lobster? And everyone

(26:34):
went ah, yeah. So yeah, the food was great, the
lodgings were great, the banana boats were cool. So it's
such an awesome thing. And then on the way back
from our little walk out through Boona and to check
out the museum and then you kind of do the
Japanese entrenchments, there's the I think there were gun pits.

(26:59):
Then after that, on the way back we stopped and
there's a the wreckage of sunking I think it was
a Japanese landing craft or something.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
Yeah, that's right, yep, Yeah, we.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Got to see that, which is pretty cool. And then
the rest of the time was kind of at leisure.
You know, we're just hanging around a village and you're
getting to know your group, which for us there was
only five of us, and so we actually formed pretty
a pretty tight bond.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
And two of you had done Kakota before because Belinda
had done Kakoda before, but the rest of them hadn't
or the other three hadn't, So were you kind of
letting them know that this is not what the rest
of the trip's going to be.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Like we didn't need to. Heidi and Brian were making
sure that everyone was well aware, especially at dinner time
when we're eating lobster. They're like, guys, don't get your
hopes up in a couple of days time. Just just
be prepared. And everyone's like, yeah, yeah, it will be good.
But yeah, it was really fun and it was a
great way to kind of eat into Kakota.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
And it finishes off the story right like because it's
the starting the end point of the whole campaign and
not ever running. In fact, probably less than sort of
aldo less than ten percent, maybe less than fifteen percent
of people who track Corkota go to the Northern Beaches,
so it is it definitely does tie off the story.
If you've already done Kokota once before, it just adds
that extra I think an extra layer, an extra piece,

(28:20):
and just the fact that your grandfather thought there is
that's pretty epic to go and set it for that reason.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, for me, that was the actual purpose of why
I wanted to go there, because I remember asking you
the last time if you knew anything about the Second Ninth,
and you kind of. I mean, there's obviously there's plenty
of different companies and battalions, so knowing them all by
name isn't going to be something, especially for the Pacific.

(28:46):
The Second Ninth didn't do anything really I shouldn't say
they didn't do anything really stellar, but they're not They're
not one.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
Of the ones. I yeah, they're not one of them
that sort of stand out and get a lot of airtime,
I guess. So, yeah, I don't remember not knowing exactly
where they'd served and filled in and whatnot. But yeah,
it's good that you found that.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, for me, that that was my highlight of the
Northern Beaches were seeing that. But also just you know,
getting to know a group of people because I went
by myself and both times I've been by myself, so
actually getting getting thrown in with a group, it's and
I heard you talk when you spoke with Adam David

(29:30):
and you said, you know, people who were outside of
the military don't understand that that's what we do. You know,
you get tossed into a group and then you just
become mate, and that that makeshift and colaraderie developed. Over
the two days that we were together. We had a
bit of a false start with the flights and everything,
so we kind of got a chance to just roll

(29:51):
with the punches as a smaller group because we had
about thirty six hours. We were teeming no sleep for
a while there.

Speaker 3 (29:58):
So we should mention that for people, because not everything
runs the plan in P and G, and that's something
I've never really spoken about on the potty. But you
guys were meant to fly out at a certain time
and you ended up and landing, you know, at five
pm or whatever. It's meant to be all good, and
then next that was going to be landing at eight pm,
and you actually ended up getting to the hotel at
two am and leaving again at four am. Yeah, you know,

(30:21):
there was not much you pretty much as I understand
it when I wasn't there because I was coming with
the rest of the group. For people listening but you've
gone in, done your briefing, head up to your room,
have a shower, get your gear on, and back down
here and let's go.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
I really liked the fact that you think I had
a shower. No, I just I packed a bag and
then I was back down. By the time we got
to the room, it was three am, and they said
we had to do back down at three point thirty,
So I kind of I had everything pre packed into
my dry bags and everything else, so I was kind
of organized in that regard, and it was just a

(30:55):
matter of transferring from one from a suitcase to a bag.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
So nor the beach. It would have been nice because
that would have at least give me a chance.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
To settle, and that's it it did. I couldn't imagine
doing that thirty six hours and then sitting Krakoda. Yeah,
with that, that would have been rough because we kind of,
you know, we jumped in the back of the trucks,
and if you can sleep in the back of a truck,
I give you plenty of credit. I'm looking at you, Heidi,
but I'm sure she'll be with it. But anybody else,

(31:22):
everybody else was kind of just getting tossed around Heidi
and camp slept like babies in the back of those trucks.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
And I'm not going to lie, but no, I just
think it's good for people to know that that can happen.
And you've got to be really flexible, like you know,
and that's just island life. And you understand that more
than anyone, you know, with your wife being an islander
as well. And I've seventy percent of my gym's islanders
and they definitely can operate on a different times when

(31:48):
you're in their countries in particular, and Westerns get everything,
get all antsy and start you know, banging hands on
calends and it doesn't change anything like things would just
happen when they happen. That's and you've got to learn
just to let go of all the expectations we have
in our Western society. And obviously you were you know,
as a train drive. You don't really have the option
of not being on time in your normal job, but

(32:09):
when you get over there, you've got to let all
of that Western stuff go.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah, I completely agree. And you said something at the airport,
which is my kind of travel philosophy anyway, but you said,
you know, it is what it is, and that was
our motto really at the end of the day, because
as you said, you can stamp your feet, ban your fist,
you can rage at the machine if you want. They'll
just look at you and smile and say I understand.

(32:33):
But the only thing you're going to do is raise
your blood pressure.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
It's not going to change a single thing.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
No, you just got to roll with it.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
So difference in you've been over twice, you've been with
two different groups of people now, so there's two different
experiences there because the people you go with absolutely change
your experience. And I'm not saying one group was better
than the other, just different. What are the sort of
differences and similarities of now having trecked with thirty odd
people or more when you can put the two groups together,

(33:02):
that you take away from these sort of experiences.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Also, the last time I went, it was primarily returned
veterans because obviously it was a mate for MATS trip
and they obviously had their own their own reasons for
being there, so they were all there as part of
a kind of how would you describe it?

Speaker 3 (33:23):
It is a PDSD program. It was for wounded and
wounded means physically or mentally wounded, which is you know,
such a very broad term, but for return service people
who had suffered in some way through their service and
not even necessarily undeployments. That was a programs we were
running through the queens and RSL who had set up
mates for mates, and we were running through those year

(33:45):
at the time.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, and that's for me, that was phenomenal, not obviously,
you know, as somebody who hasn't served to hear their stories,
because every obviously everybody shares what they're willing to share.
They to hear their stories. It was very humbling and
it it gave me a lot of gratitude that there's
people out there who were willing to put their body

(34:08):
and their mind on the line and sacrifice to protect
and uphold our way of life and our values. And
then this time around, and the other thing I should
say is that whole matship side of things. The second
that we kind of were on the ground in p ANDNG.

(34:29):
We weren't eighty A and we weren't mates for mates.
We were one group and they really embraced us even
though we were not return service people. They really took
us in and that we were all part of the groups,
and so I had experienced that matship with that group
and were.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
More expected with it, like you'd expect that with the
veterans group, And I mean there's a lot of heaviness
that comes without our veterans groups of course, with their experiences,
but you also I would expect of them that they're
going to provide that makes because that's what we do.
But then getting that with a civilian group, I'm not
going to lie. I experienced it a bit, but that group,
we just had rands that was better than I've experienced

(35:08):
in the past, as in there was no pockets of
people that didn't buy into the collective experience of the group.
And that was And I mentioned to Todd Fast on
the episode that goes there before yours as well, and same,
he's done twenty eight years in the military, and he's like, yeah,
I was just totally surprised. But you could, same as David.
You could feel it soon as we got to the airport.
So yeah, I expected from the military people, but you

(35:30):
don't always expected in the civilian world. So that was
pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah, And Todd actually hit the nail on the head
when he said, you know, it's very rare that you
get twenty eight people who don't know each other and
you put them together and they bond and click as
quickly as this group has. So really take a minute
to look around, get to know everybody and embrace that
because we're about to do something really difficult together and
that forges people. Yeah, and I tend to completely agree

(35:59):
with that, is that you know, you remember those the
people that you do difficult things with, whether it be
you know, win a foot Grand final or whatever it is,
when you're met, when you're part of a team and
you do something tough together, you remember that. And that
that to me is what both trips have highlighted.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
But I'd love to ask about challenging days on this
trip if you even had any, because and I understand
everyone has a tough day, but when you've got the
comparison of being, you know, twenty kilos heavier last time,
and I would imagine no tough day this time would
have compared to a tough day last time. But did
was there a day here on this trip that you
still had a tough day? And if so, or if not,

(36:39):
how did that compare to your last trip?

Speaker 1 (36:43):
Last trip? Every day was a tough day and my
whole my whole strategy the last trip once I hit
the ground was genuinely yeah, and it was to get
from water stores to water stores in one piece. That
was my whole game. So this time around, I I

(37:05):
I actually wrote it down. My most challenging day was
after you and Bell left, we kind of we do
Mission Ridge, which is heartbreaking and beautiful, and then you
do Brigade Hill and that's kind of also really physically
and mentally heavy, and it's a very emotional morning. And

(37:25):
then after that you kind of settle into this really
it's a grind. And we went to Manari. We had
lunch in Manari, and then after Manari there was a
climb out and we were no longer under the canopy.
So we climbed from Memory. We climbed up into Manari
and there was no canopy. And then we climbed out

(37:45):
of Manari and there was no canopy. Yeah, it was cooking.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
Sorry up up that Manari gap. They saw that, and
it is it just smashes you. There's no breeze. Yeah,
no egg gets into there.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
It's crazy, but funnily enough, I really, and I say
I tall everybody, I really enjoy the climbing because I
can regulate my pace, so I can find a pace
that works for me, and I just I just keep
going and I go until I get told to stop. Basically,
that's how I get through the hard uphills, is that
I just find I get my groove and I just

(38:22):
flow smooth and smooth as far And that's kind of
how I do that to get through it. But after
the climb out of Manari, there was a downhill and
that was I don't want to swear, because I don't
know who hears this podcast, like, I know that it's
all ages and all demographics. But it was terrible. And

(38:44):
by the time I got to the bottom, I was
so thoroughly over it that I kind of chucked my
toys out of the cot and I had a bit
of silk. I got to the bottom and I kicked
some rocks and Adam and Mel were at the bottom
and they had been with us through the Northern Beaches
as well.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
Just how good of that as a couple that were
great absolute legends.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Mel actually, funnily enough, we had a running joke that
she wore the pont for everyone, not just not just
for him, but for everyone. And so she would kind
of if she saw someone struggling, she'd go over and
just have a quick chat to them and or just
say something and pet people up. And they were both
the same. They bounce off each other really well. But

(39:28):
they're a really fun and social couple and I've got
all the time in the world for it. But Adam.
Adam saved me that day. He kind of he saw
me kind of kicking rocks and I was a bit
and a bit stumpy, and I kind of I had
this shit go on of a better expression. He looked
over and he goes going on. I was like, oh,
I'm over it, you know, blah blah, had a bit
of a rant, and he goes, what do you need, mate,

(39:51):
Do you want good couple bad cops? And I said,
I don't know. And then he just turned around and
he gave me this gog and esque kind of spray
and I just kind of looked at him and nod
of my head and I was like, yeah, that's done,
thanks mate. So and I to walk back out and
I was done. I was good. So and then at
the end of the day he came up and he goes,
I haven't seen you like that. He said, normally you're
kind of laughing and you have a fun that. I

(40:13):
was like, yeah, I don't know. I just my boots
were falling apart. I was having some problems. I couldn't
the downhills, I couldn't find footing anywhere. I was slipping
all over the place. And yeah, in the end, I
just kind of, yeah, I cracked it and Adam was
there to pull me out of it, which was good.
I needed it.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, I like that. I actually saw a quote that
someone shared today. I can't remember it exactly, I literally
just saw it saying it was something along the lines
that your true friends are the true people in your
life are the ones that will tell you what you
need to hear, as opposed to just sitting letting you
go through stuff and empowering that behavior. And I think
that's quite true, you know, so it's good to have

(40:50):
people that are willing to do that.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
I completely agree. But yeah, it was that. That was
my challenging day for sure.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
What about highlights and if you look at highlights, you know,
obviously the last tree and I don't want to but
you did have veterans on the trip, so that's it's
a different It is a different vibe, but highlights for
you yourself personally in both experiences. Were they similar Was there
something that stood there differently on each trip?

Speaker 1 (41:19):
The similarities were, as I said earlier, and as you've
touched on the mate ship, the camaraderie that you build
amongst the group of people who don't know each other
for the most part. You know, you come in as
strangers and you leave not as the best of friends obviously,
but you know, you could you could catch up. When
I came back, I had to catch up with Chris
from the original trip, who was he worked for eighty

(41:41):
eight at the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So we
had to catch up and it was kind of just
it was only by a messenger, but he was like, mate,
how was the experience? And that was five years ago,
and we caught up and we're talking, and I mean
we kind of still we connect pretty much semi regularly
online anyway. But you do because you've done this thing

(42:04):
to gain. You had this bond, which for the most part,
it's pretty hard to break because you've got you've done
this thing together and that shared Yeah, you struggle together
and you remember it for a lifetime. So that from
the last trip. For this trip, That's the one thing
that I would say was the really common bond is

(42:24):
that the camaraderie of the group, but also this group
being that we were pretty much predominantly all civilians and
from all walks of life. It was so cool to
get to interact with people that you might not normally
talk to on a day to day basis. And you know,
we had people that worked in mining, we had people

(42:45):
that were self made. We had I'm a train driver.
We had I think Coop was a video we had
a dentist. So there was a group just such a
wide array of people and to be able to kind
of find common ground and have these really really deep

(43:06):
and interesting conversations at the end of each day and
some from during the day, and you learned something about
something if you're willing to kind of put in the
effort and have those conversations.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
We'll talking about that. I saw that Kate. I knew
Kate and Todd were doing the Kakota Challenge and one
of their team members dropped out injury or whatever. I
come in white, why that happens, And they just reached
out to Aiden and he's fit, young bloke, and yeah, Okay,
they didn't know each other four weeks ago, and yeah,
I love that and that is the sort of sort

(43:36):
of what I wrote about that on the Adventure Professionals
Instagram and Facebook because it's such a cool side to adventures,
but particularly to Kakoda, and it just brings people together
in a very very different way.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Yeah. Yeah, completely. When I saw the post on Facebook,
I that's so cool. I really loved it.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Mate. I've got to ask the question that I think
most people would want to ask, and that is why
would you go back? No, I understand when you've done
it once. I understand. I fully get it because it
draws me back a lot. And it's not just for
a business. It actually draws me back but for the
Joe blow listening and they go, you struggled last time.
You know, you're a bit heavy than you should have been.

(44:15):
You're looking at your feet, your hold the whole time.
What makes like looking around and gain you know what?
I'm going to do that again.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
It's a great question, and it's one that I got
a lot on the way in and I couldn't answer
it because I didn't know. I had a pretty rough
twenty twenty two. My mum, my dad, and my father
in law passed away in the space of that nine months,
and I kind of was a bit shell shocked at
the end of that, and we kind of as a

(44:43):
family we got through it kind of okay, I think,
but I had some kind of lingering stuff I needed
to deal with, and I started to get really comfortable
in terms of just I was in a routine. I was.
I was going to jiu jitsu, but I wasn't training
with much intensity, and I needed to do something to

(45:04):
knock the rust off. And I wanted to do something
difficult that I could just solely focus on that. And
there was two options. I was going to either do
kakoda again because I had done something difficult there in
the past, but I wanted to do it again to
because I knew how hard it was and I wanted
to dedicate myself to getting ready to not just survive it,

(45:27):
but enjoy it. And if I didn't do kokoda, I
was going to go and compete at the World Jiu
Jitsu Masters as a blue belt in Las Vegas, and
so I kind of looked at the time frame and kakoda. Obviously,
I wanted to do anzact and then at that time
you had kind of mentioned it might be your last
one and.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
My last. That was certainly my plan, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
It's kind of, you know, gets in your blood. So
I can absolutely see how not doing it would be difficult.
It'd be kind of like saying, you know, I really
enjoy being married, but I don't think I'm going to
do it next year. I've done it for twenty four
years and I've really really enjoyed it, so I don't
think I'm going to do it next year.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
Break.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Yeah, it's a break. So I can see how getting
how not doing something you love kind of doesn't make
sense if you're still capable of doing it.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
And the three years COVID where I couldn't do it,
you know, I think that made me realize how much
I miss it.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Yeah, no, I could imagine. So Yeah, for me, the
reason behind wanting to do it was that I wanted
to get out of my comfort zone. I really wanted
to challenge myself and I wanted to kind of dedicate
myself to doing something difficult and really challenging myself. And
it was my wife that kind of said, well, if
you wanted, if these are the two options, when is
the World Masters, and I said it in July, and

(46:50):
she said, okay, so you've got six months or whatever
it was at the time, maybe twelve months to get
ready for that. But if this one is time sensitive,
do that first. And so at the time, because it
seemed as though it might be your last anzac at
the time. That's why I pulled the trigger on an jack.
And I'm so glad that I did. Yes, it was
one of those things. When did you start jiu jitsu

(47:12):
nine so twenty twenty.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
First kakoda?

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Yes, I did kakota in twenty nineteen. And then I
kind of, as I said, came home and I was
a bit kind of I was suffering from wanderlust for
a while there. I'd been and done something really difficult
in a far away place. Be kidn't that far away.
But when you're in the middle of the jungles up
in New Unia, good luck thinking you're anywhere other than that.
It's so far away from everything. People don't know what

(47:38):
remote means until you get to somewhere like a phoby,
and everything that's there is either helicoptered in or carry
in on someone's back. So yeah, to me, the appeal
of being somewhere remote and doing something difficult was kind
of it was calling me, but you can't go to

(47:59):
Kakota every year. And a made online had been hitting
me up about jiu jitsu for about five years. And
I've been interested in since probably the early two thousands
from watching USC back in the day. And yeah, I
ended up. I got into it. I did. I just
did the intro class, loved it, signed up immediately, and
I've been kind of going ever since. And you know,

(48:20):
it's so cool. It's not your traditional like it's not
a striking mark that it's grappling, which a lot of
people go, oh, that's just that's the bit that sucks
in the USC, and I'm like.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
Well, okay, it's also a bit of the winds lot
of fights. My My point more is that if you
hadn't gone on the Kokota journey and lost the weight,
which which is the initial catalyst for that, you might
not have been able to start digito anytime soon. You
kind of needed to take that step and get some
sort of health and fitness. And that kind of brings

(48:51):
me to a question that I always ask people, which
is everyone says Cocoda's life changing, but how does life
actually change, And for a lot of us it doesn't.
We fall back into habits. But you've now had two
cocoda experiences and your life definitely has changed in between.
I'm not not by any shits saying that's just due
to kakoda, but you've definitely kept up some practices, started
some new practices even you know, I'm sure you know

(49:14):
with your young fellow being able to do a lot
more because you've dropped so much waiting and you've had
a reason to keep it off, and now you're lighter again.
How does life change and what do you hope that
you hold on to going forward as a result of
these two experiences.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
So, as you mentioned, for me, life has changed kind
of pretty drastically. I'm thirty kilos lighter than I was
before I did my first kakota, well before before I
won the initial cocoda too, and my mindset is a
lot more different, a lot more different. It's a lot
it's very different now. So now I look at things

(49:53):
and after the first kakoda, when things got tough, i'd
go it's hard, but I'm not climbing the water for
And then I started jiu jitsu and I kind of
look at everyday life and I go, yeah, hard, but
I'm not getting strangled. And so that doing difficult things
intentionally and doing difficult things willingly is actually really good

(50:18):
for your your mindset if you're willing to accept it.
Because when life gets difficult, and it always does, it's
not like nobody lives just this perfectly blessed life. When
life gets difficult, you've got reference for actual hard things,
and you can compare, and you can contrast, and you

(50:39):
can really enjoy the highs and you can fight your
way out of blows. So for me, that's the biggest
change is that my mindset is a lot better. And
I'm a lot I've always been, well, I haven't always been,
but I'm a lot more positive than I used to be.
And I find that doing difficult things helps keep positivity

(51:03):
because again, you that reference. You know, yeah, this start now,
but it's a bad day, not a bad life. And well,
I also after twenty nineteen, I kind of started following
along your content and one of the things that you
put out I don't know if you even remember, but
it genuinely changed my life was that you did a

(51:27):
mental health first aid course and then you spoke about
it on the Building Better Humans.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
Was quite a few years ago now, but yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
Because I think it was either the end of twenty
nineteen or it was early maybe early on in the
COVID day. I can't remember.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
Yeah, I think it was nineteen because COVID wasn't quite
on the horizon and i'd heard about COVID in January
twenty twenty year. I was in the Yukon, so it
would have been twenty nineteen.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
So I did a mental health first Aid course myself,
and then at work we have mental health Ambassador programs
where they have people that they train up with mental
health first aid and then they give us a little
bit of additional training and where by no means you know,
we're not psychologists or psychiatrists, but we're armed with the

(52:14):
tools to have the difficult conversations. And at work we
have something called an Ruaka policy where when you go
to work, they're supposed to ask you are you okay?
And that's your indication that you'll fit for duty to work,
but it's also are you Okay? Is a charity that
has are You Okay Day, and I actually became an

(52:36):
ambassador for them as well. Instead of raising money, and
I used the Kakoda trip to raise money for Are
You Okay? And I ended up raising slightly. My goal
was five grand, which I never thought I would reach.
But I know that the people I work with have
got deep pockets and big hearts, but they've got short arms,
and so sometimes getting those short arms into those deep

(52:57):
pockets is they see you've reached a goal, they just get, oh, well,
he'll be right. He's made his grand, so it's okay.
And I figured having area target that I didn't think
I would achieve would be enough that people would be
able to see that keep reaching into their pocket, or
more people would do it, And so I ended up
raising five grand for Are You Okay? And your initial

(53:21):
mental health first aid podcast that you did was what
got me to look at that because you talked about
it so positively and it's something I hadn't considered before.
And then they had this program at work, which meant
that I was able to do it with my workmates.
And we can see some kind of traumatizing stuff at work.
And there's a lot of people that have a story

(53:42):
to tell, but there's not a lot of opportunity for
those stories to be told and so kind of doing
that training and being able to have those conversations, it
gave me the opportunity that I didn't realize that I
needed to move into the mental health space. And it's
something that I'm really passionate about now, which I don't
know I would have kind of even looked at otherwise

(54:05):
because my mental health personally, I think it's pretty good.
Like we've all got our quirks that I don't suffer
from mental health, so to speak, but I know a
lot of people that do suffer from mental health conditions.
And this gave me the opportunity to recognize that, and
you kind of you approach people differently. I've always been

(54:26):
a bit of Alarican and I tend to pull a
pisce a bit, but now I'm really cautious how I
do that.

Speaker 3 (54:33):
It's a good point because you think when you have
that personality that you know, you don't realize that that
could actually be affecting someone.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Yeah, And it's kind of a changed my outlook a lot.
I still pull the piss that you on myself, and
I get people laughing at me as opposed to laughing
people laughing at someone.

Speaker 3 (54:49):
Else that reminds me of his big cane.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Yeah, and he and I.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
He's got a great knack of just absolutely pulling the
p out of himself all the time. He just that
makes you feel good for people listening. Caine's doing an
Advance to Leader programs where he's learning to lead adventures,
and it was his first actual adventure with me, and
I really enjoyed his personality. He's just an easy going,
you know, sort of big country lad who, to be honest,
I think you'd hate to get on the wrong side

(55:17):
of him, Like he's I'm sure to be a no
nonsense bloke, and yet he's just got such a chill
attitude that he just really lifts the vibe.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Yeah. He and I actually were talking because he did
his training, his mental health training through the Mental Health Movement,
which is Dan Hunt.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
Oh yeah, I did a party of Dan Hunt too
a long long time ago, I think.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
Yeah. So he started a business called the Mental Health
Movement and that's who I did my training with. And
I thought he had the logo on his short on
day one. It was just kind of I saw it
and I went, hey, that's Dan Hunt's company, and that
got us talking, which is funny how just little things
can kind of bond you with people. But yeah, Caine,
as you said, legend of a bloke and a gentle giant.

(56:07):
Thankfully I only saw the gentle side.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
But yeah, mate, I've got a question which I haven't
asked it. How did you win the trip the first time?
What did you have to do?

Speaker 1 (56:18):
It was one of those kind of tell us. It
was just an ad on faithbook and it said do
you want to win a trip to Kakoda? And it
was that typical lush green jungle with all these blue
backpacks in the photo. And I had been talking. You
know they say sometimes you put things out to the
universe and sometimes the universe delivers.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
It's one of those.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
Yeah, I had been talking. That weekend I went on
a camping trip with some mates from work and one
of the boys kind of bailed me out, and he's
one of my best mates, and he said to me,
what are you going to do? And I said, I know,
what do you mean? I said, I'm planning on going
to the toilet and then maybe having some dinner. And
he said no, no, He said, you're a big boy
and you need to do something because if you don't
you're probably going to die really young, and I don't

(57:03):
want to see that. And it kind of took me
off guard, and I said, I don't know. I said,
I want to do something. There's a lot of stuff
that I want to do. I'd love to trip to
Trek to Coda. And then Mark Zuckerberg was listening, and
so on the Tuesday or whatever it was, this targeted
ad popped up and I clicked the link and it
was one of those tell us in I think it's

(57:24):
say one hundred or one hundred and fifty words or less,
why you want to go? And I just explained that
my grandfather had served and I wanted to walk in
the footsteps of giants, and you know, I wanted to
have my own experience doing something difficult basically, And yeah,
I was lucky enough to win it.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
Well that's crazy because I remember they got quite a
lot of that were quite overwhelmed by how many entries
they got. So it's interesting to see how your entries
can slip through to someone or because you know, it's
just hard to know that. But that's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Yeah, it was. It was definitely a life changing experience
for me. But I've been kind of lucky in that regard.
A few times I've won a few things with those
online competitions, So it's.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
What's next to you? How do you keep I know
you've got the was it trathlone you've seen coming up?

Speaker 1 (58:17):
Not much on a TREDI week to be honest, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:19):
Well I'm not swimming, but yeah, you got such a serf.
But how do you keep yourself sort of inspired and motivated?
Now do you think is it just to continue to
look for these things, whether it be a city to
serve or whatever. The next thing is just to have
things to train for or how does that sort of
unfold for you?

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Yeah? I think keeping I'm going to try and keep
my eyes on a goal that's kind of just on
the horizon. So if I look at twelve weeks to
prep for Kakoda, and I kind of did a little
bit more than twelve weeks, but that twelve week train
to for want of a better expression, train to mission
was perfect for me. It's close enough that you can

(59:01):
you can dedicate yourself to do it, and not so
far away that you can get a bit. So I
think that's what I'm going to try and do. And
I'm also just going to kind of go back to
jiu jitsu and kind of focus on that, because that's
the kind of thing that you can do for life.
And so if if I set myself three monthly goals

(59:21):
where I want to work on getting better at this
fact in the next three months, I can dedicate myself
to doing that, and then I can just change that
to a different goal. And that's something that I hadn't
considered previously. So my time out on Cocoda gave me
that the chance to unplug and kind of pass things
out and really get some stuff aligned in my head.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
Yeah, that's awesome. But any sort of last thoughts or
words of advice or wisdom or you know, if someone's
well most of been listening to the show because I've
either done cokato or don't want to do it. But
so you're running to someone who says, I've always thought
about doing that. Yeah, what sort of advice or tips
or words would you give them?

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Don't think about it, just do it. I tell everybody
you you'll have paralysis by analysis if you if you
think about it too much, and if you have the
means and the opportunity, Like everybody that tells me that
they've ever wanted to do it, to do it the
other thing that I do. And this is not blowing

(01:00:22):
smoke in your direction, but it's a fact. I always
always tell people if they're going to do it, go
with adventure professionals, and purely because it's a one stop shop,
so you kind of you know, as long as you
can get yourself to Brisbane. Once you get yourself to
Brisbane Airport, everything else is taken care of. And a
lot of other places aren't all inclusive. So either. Yeah,

(01:00:49):
Like I spoke to a blow if you told me
he did Kakoona and he had to put up his
own tent, which cool, that's not a big deal. But
then he said that it didn't include all minerals, and
I said, you had to bring your own food.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
I've actually heard that quite more commonly than I realized,
to be honest.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Yeah, the idea of that to me, like, if you've
never done Katana, firstly, how would you know what to bring?
You don't know what you're going to need, you don't
know what? Then do you need to bring your own
cooking year? Do you know what I mean? Like? At
what point when does it end? So? Yeah, the idea
of it being all inclusive is really good. But also
the briefings are second to none. And if you go

(01:01:27):
there and want a physical challenge, then you'll get it.
But if you go there and want to actually learn
about the history of the people that sacrifice to save
our country for what's a better expression, you can't go
past the venture professional.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
I don't do this shows an advertisement for us per se,
but I do appreciate that, and I know that myself
and the team work really hard on making sure that
we don't ever get slack on those pieces that I
think absolutely make the experience, and that military history is
a part of that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Yeah, there's a memory that I will carry with me
twice now to the day that I die. And it's
sitting on Mission Ridge and everyone's kind of, you know,
sitting in the wet grass and you're looking around, and
then you get everyone to close their eyes and you
start reading from the battalion diaries I think it is,

(01:02:21):
and telling the stories as they saw it, and just
talking about it now brings chills. And then you play
that song from the Young Fella that is a cracker,
and if it doesn't bring a kit to your eye,
I think you should check your pulp because everyone that
was on that trip both times around like they were

(01:02:44):
leaking by the end of it. You can't help it
if there's tissues getting passed around, and it's a very
emotional moment that whole day.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
A lot of dust up there on Mission Ridge.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Yeah, there is. It's amazing. You don't know. It must
be the portal because now they sneak off. They must
be able to cutting onions because it's one of those
things that between there and Mission Ridge. But you throw
a Mission Ridge and brigade him. Yeah, it's a very
very emotionally heavy morning. But if that's what you're looking for,
if you want to challenge yourself, and if you want

(01:03:15):
to to also learn the history behind the battles as
they unfolded, then you can't go past the adventure professional
way of delivering it because it's phenomenal.

Speaker 3 (01:03:28):
Thanks mate, you're asolute legend. Thanks for giving me an
hour of your of your day on a Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
Most welcome. Thanks for thanks for taking the time. I
appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (01:03:36):
Right lessiez Fee raising bond Helvisuits.

Speaker 4 (01:03:50):
And the bond between Ossie's and the people of Papi
and your Guinea was ford in war and it endures
in peace. We've felt that friendliness, that special connection and

(01:04:12):
the comforting presence of our porters and in every small
community along the Kakoda Track.

Speaker 6 (01:04:19):
WHOA Okay, guys, thanks for tuning in.

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
It would be awesome if you'd share this with anyone
you know that's going to the Kokoda Track or that
has been and has.

Speaker 6 (01:04:45):
A keen interest in the track. It's people and those
that choose to track it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
The Pillars of Isheraba say, courage, endurance, makeship, and sacrifice
great words to live by, and this podcast will offer
makeshift and a place for those that live and love
the co Coda Track experience.

Speaker 6 (01:04:59):
Until next episode, live a life.

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
That inspires you and those around you, and remember to
take time out to think about what's really important, what's
really important?

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
What's really important?

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Thanks for listening to the Kakoda Track Podcast. To get
in touch or stay up to date, go to Kakoda
Track Podcast on Facebook or email Glen at Adventure Professionals
dot com dot au. Don't forget to subscribe and share
with your friends. Let's keep the spirit and the stories
of Kakoda and the P and G people alive.