Kate and Todd's Kokoda Experience

Today I spoke with Todd who served in the Army with me and his wife Kate, about their Kokoda experience 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apodjay Production. This podcast is proudly brought to you by
Adventure Professionals www dot Adventure Professionals dot com dot au for.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Me, Mission Ridge and Brigade Hill. The whole Kakoda campaign.
More people need to know about it, or know everyone
knows someone who's trek Kakoda, but to actually understand the
stories of what these young guys did, it's harrowing what
they went through.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
They were staunched to the end against odds uncountered and
they fell with their faces to the pone.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Welcome to the Kakoda Track Podcast, hosted by former solject
Glen Asa. This is the place to hear stories from
those who've trecked Kakoda and gained tips of knowledge about
what to expect on the track, or to relive your
own amazing experiences. The Kakoda Track Podcast keeping the spirit
of Kakoda alive.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Heycome back to another episode of the Kakoda Track Podcast.
I'm glad Asa obviously your host, and now we're three
or four weeks deep of doing these weekly episodes. Feedback
feedback's being phenomenal, So it'd be great if you had
the opportunity to go over and you know, like it
on or sorry, I should say rate. It's on Apple
Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. This is

(01:27):
the only as far as I'm aware still I haven't
checked recently, but the only podcast specifically built around the Kakoda,
not just the campaign, but trekking co Coda giving people
tips and tools and ideas and other people's experiences. So,
whether you have trek Cocoda yourself and you just like
to relive it, whether it's you know you're going to

(01:47):
go on Kakoda or you're even thinking about it, you've
just got an interest in it, share this podcast with
people who have a similar interest or who are intending
to track Kakoda, because what it's become over the years
is just this depth of experience other people's experiences so
that you can learn from them. Now today I'm seeing
with the husband and wife team Todd and Kate Brennan.

(02:07):
Todd and I actually served in the Army in the
same unit together up in towns Or over twenty five
years ago, which dates me a little bit. And he
is still serving today and he's in the reserves side
of things now, but he's doing like two hundred days
a year which is full time, right, so I would
have to hazard a guess. I'll ask him when he
comes in. But thirty thirty five years that he's been

(02:30):
in the military, which is absolutely phenomenal. So it was
a real honor to take Tider cross Kakota for ANZAC
and also to take his wife, Kate, who i'd only
met more recently, and to have that experience with someone
that I've actually served with and someone that I know
still serves our nation today, that was pretty powerful. So
I'm looking forward to hearing their experiences, and particularly hearing

(02:52):
from the couple point of view. And I know a
stat came out or a comic came out while we're
on the track that Kate had not camped before. So
you know, if you're going to camp, this is a
pretty extreme way to kick off your camp. Sorry you're yeah,
you're camping experience. So you know, I'm looking forward to
this chat and it's two different perspectives of two different
people who are a couple and what that felt like.

(03:14):
And I haven't sort of spoken to a couple for
quite some time on this show, so I really hope
you enjoy the show again. You know, for me, it's
always an honor to take anyone across Kakoda. It's something
I'm very passionate about as a former soldier, as a leader,
but it just hits home that little extra special when
you're taking former veterans and veterans that I actually served

(03:37):
with to go a little step deeper than that. So
it was a great experience for me, and I'm looking
forward to, you know, sharing that experience with you when
the guys come in and start and kick off their chat.
So without further ado, we'll kick into the chat with
Todd and Kate and talk about their Kakoda experience. All right,
so we'll just kicked straight in. Is it four weeks?

(03:59):
Just over four weeks since we finished, since we finished Kakoda.
So the first question I love to ask people is
if you're running into someone and this is you to
us a couple, so either of you can speak, you
can even speak over each other because we're fans of that,
how would you explain your experience four weeks on now
you've had a bit of time to think about it.

Speaker 4 (04:19):
Life changing?

Speaker 5 (04:20):
Absolutely? Yep?

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, in what way.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
It made me see that I'm a lot stronger than
I am, or that I thought I was, so, Yeah,
it gives you a real confidence boost when you finish
absolutely well.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
You nearly didn't come almost. Why was that? I know
you want a young fellow to go, but was there
you know, not to psycho analyze you, but was there
a deeper reason? Like I.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
Didn't train enough? I trained with Matthew, and I think
I trained maybe once or twice with Todd.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
But you are fit because I've ran into you a
couple of years over to fit. Yeah, but I read
into you a couple of years ago and you're regularly
on weekends out doing suffer and yeah we.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
Were training for the forty eight oh okay, for.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
The Comkata Challenge. Yeah, yeah, right, so.

Speaker 4 (05:17):
Spit back then. I probably could have done it quite
happily back then.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
How many years ago was that? It was pretty cod
nineteen okay? And how old are you now? I'm allowed
to ask that because I'm the oldest person sitting this
table forty How old are you? Bron? I was trying
to work out how long you been in the army?
Have you been the army? How long I was because
it was twenty five years ago at least that we
were in one month old? So do some math for
me because I'm hoping, yeah, okay, I almost I thought

(05:44):
you were older. I said, at least thirty years he's
been in the army. It's not gonna apologize for that,
but it feels like that. So as a soldier, for
you to go over and do the track, I always
like to ask these sort of questions because a lot
of people go and they love the military history, but
they're not from the military, so I feel like it
probably hits a bit different for us. And you've been

(06:05):
on deployments and you've been in the military for a
long time, So how did it hit for you expectation
of what was going to happen versus what happened.

Speaker 5 (06:14):
Expectation was it was going to be a lot easier
than I thought it was going to be. You know,
you're not young as you were, and you can carry packs.
Like David was saying, she'd be right. Yeah, sh'd be
right was the word I used. But from a military perspective,
it was emotional, fully emotional, because you think you understand

(06:37):
what's happening from your training and then you see it firsthand,
you're just blown away.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
It's one of the few places in the world that
I would understand there for us as Australians that you
could go to where we actually fought. We're not going
to Afghanistan anytime soon, Let's be honest. We're not running
to US or even Iraq or places like that. So
to go where big things have happened, like what's happened there,
that's kind of cool, very cool now when we talk
about the fitness side of things, because I'm fifty fifty

(07:05):
two and I still feel in my head the same
as I was when I was twenty five, but I
can one hundred per cent to two. That's not the
case when my body gets out there even now. I
took him years ago, Mick, and he and I had
served it out. He's a bit older than me. He
was a corporal when I was a digger, and he
got out and he was a sub unit petee, the
whole bit, like all of us. But we all get
out and get a little bit lazy. Maybe because you've

(07:25):
never fully got out, you not quite experienced that at
the same level. But I read him up and said, mate,
because he was a combat first aid as well, do
you want to come and be a medic on this trip?
He said, app and he put up a post on
Instagram or something with his backpack. I got my backpack out,
and people know, what are you up to? And then
when we got out on the trip, he struggled like
and he was he was carrying a bit extra beef.
You know, we're all a little bit older. And I

(07:47):
was with his corporate group and he was coming up
the hill last, and some of the guys in the
group said, we're actually worried about the medic, like, is
he gonna have a heart attack? And I put him
up and said, ma, you're okay, Gays. Yeah, I didn't
do any training, And I said, you put up a
post and said I got my backpack out. He gaes yeh,
I got it out. But I didn't do anything. Because
I'd been in the Army for years. I thought, ah,
it'll be he's a city.

Speaker 5 (08:06):
Was that you, Brennan, Yeah, I did no training.

Speaker 4 (08:08):
It was it was I was nervous. I was going
to say something else then, but.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
I was nervous nervous enough to do the training. Really.

Speaker 4 (08:17):
Oh yeah. Life kinds of kind of gets in the way.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:22):
So we had so much happening with our kids, and
I always put them first. I probably should learn not
to sometimes. But I mean I did lots of walking,
not enough hills. So but I was like, come on,
come on, we need to go for a hike this weekend.
And he's like, yeah, yeah, I'll take you. And I'm like, yeah, okay,

(08:43):
this weekend. Yeah, we're going. No, not going. Life happens
and I'm like I'm really scared, like I'm not ready
for this, and he's just like, she'll be right, and
I'm like no, no. But that was every time I
said something negative, I'm ready, She'll be right, shall be right.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
It's such an Aussie trap, particularly diggers, but in Bruno's
offense it was right.

Speaker 4 (09:09):
But during it, when when we were going down those hills,
I was just like, sure, be right.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Was there any stage for you that you felt like
you weren't going to make it, or that you'd bitten
off more than you can chew once you get over there?

Speaker 4 (09:23):
Every uphill right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Show that I didn't anyway.

Speaker 4 (09:29):
No, I kept it internally. There are a few I
think Eddie might have heard a few things that I
probably shouldn't have said, but no, I think I've always
hated Uphill. It's my chest just doesn't like it. My
lungs don't like it. Plus I'm not fit enough at
the moment. But but yeah, every every uphill was tough

(09:54):
for me. But I love the downhills and I love
the crossings and every other aspect of it is just yeah,
the breath was not good.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Did you love the down hills? Brea, No, I've never
You don't really hear people say they love downhills.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
I've always loved downhills.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, especially fast blokes. I know it's our knees or
what it is.

Speaker 4 (10:13):
But I wasn't carrying a twenty kilo pack though, so
maybe that was.

Speaker 5 (10:17):
I was one of those ones that decided to carry
my pack.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
If you're on that trip, four of us.

Speaker 5 (10:23):
Three of us were army, one wasn't, and we all
regretted about.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
So your advice to people listening who because a lot
of people listening to the show because they're going to Kikada,
your advice would be to get a porter.

Speaker 5 (10:36):
It's not so. The weight wasn't the problem. It was
carrying The weight was no issue. But when you when
you're over there and you realize the porters aren't actually
there just to carry your stuff. They are like this
hand of God they're they're every whim. They can see
something happening before you can, and they're just like your
brother and sister.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Really, they provide a lot to the experience.

Speaker 5 (10:59):
Yeah. Sorry, if I was to do it again, it
is definitely a porter, regardless if I gave him my
pack on not just to have them there. Amazing.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, So, okay, talk about was there a hardest day?
I'll ask you the same, But it was there a day,
one day that stood out more than others.

Speaker 4 (11:17):
Nine false peaks. I can't remember which day it was.
Was it day six?

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah? Maybe that was after I'd skipped out on you.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
Yeah, thanks for that. Just yeah, it was relentless. I
swear I counted nine and then there were like another
four at least. But no, that was particularly tough for me.
I think I because I get in my head that
I don't like uphill, and it's just full of uphill.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
That's a long but it's a also a long downhill
day straight after it. So ye, does mean you've got
a bit of payback, you got you got a bit
of good stuff.

Speaker 4 (11:53):
Yeah, everyone's going downhill and I'm like, no, this is
better than uphill. This is better.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
So what was your best day then, And what was
your like one, two, three experiences that for you stand
out if you're talking to someone that you think, even
in five years time, I'm still going to remember those pieces.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
Oh first night bathing in that lovely, lovely creek that
was beautiful? Was that? Hoy hoy?

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, you hadn't camped before, right, No, which I only
heard about that on day three or four.

Speaker 4 (12:23):
I know, well, I don't know who did I hear
about it. I don't know who told you.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
That's right at the end of it.

Speaker 4 (12:28):
Up and you were like, what, what are you proud of?
And I'm like, well, I've never camped.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
That's so well, tell people how that was your first
camping experience.

Speaker 4 (12:37):
Look, I knew that it was going to be tough, so.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Because it's extreme camping, it's bring the four drive. We
got all the gear.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
So I was just like, the worst part of camping
for me was getting getting the sleeping bag in the
in the cover.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Did you try and roll it up? No, that that's
what it told me.

Speaker 5 (13:00):
To roll it up really so I can jump in
on her. I'd rolled onne up about ten seconds and
she would fight it.

Speaker 4 (13:06):
And then I was getting so angry in my job, and.

Speaker 5 (13:09):
I realized that the top of her bag had been
stitched so you couldn't actually get it in there.

Speaker 4 (13:15):
So it's like you guys knew.

Speaker 5 (13:18):
Stitch up.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
That was the worst part.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Hoy. So hoy was a highlight, whatever was highlight.

Speaker 4 (13:26):
All those great crossings I loved, loved, But in the
same day we also had em Oh that was nasty.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
So every time you tell me about something you don't love,
which is n uphill you get it, you get a reward.
Your brain should be starting to look for pills. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:41):
Well, I mean I've done a couple of little mini
high since then, and I'm just like, ah, this is nothing.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Well, everything's relevant to our experience, right it is. Yeah,
And I think even even though we're a bit older
Bran like, we've still got a lot of experience of
carrying much heavier backpacks when we're in the military. Also
been a much younger. But like I say to people
that you know, forty forty five killers isn't unusual, you know,
back in the nineties. Anyway, I don't know if it's
changed today, but even now, when I'm carrying mine around,

(14:09):
which is only like twenty two or something, I could co.
Do you think I couldn't carry another twenty I don't
think i'd have that in me. I'd be moving a
whole lot slower. I know that. So, but if for
you toughest days or any days that you felt like
what am I doing here?

Speaker 5 (14:24):
Yeah, there was a couple. So the first time that
they kicked me was when we were going into Daniki.
Up that hill, I'm like, wow, okay, this is different.

Speaker 4 (14:34):
She'll be right, She'll be right.

Speaker 5 (14:36):
I got to the top of that went oh, we're
not even that's the smallest hill. And then probably about
an hour or so later, I cramped in both my
quads and I looked at Kate and said, where's our
salt tablet? She looked at me and went, you've got
them at this point.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Our salt tablets.

Speaker 5 (14:51):
At this point we were like, oh crap. And then
Brenda came to the rescue. That Brenda Lowne and Georgie
came to the rescue with some hide light savior.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
It was actually more humid that week than I've experienced
in probably a decade this year, and I actually went
and board a whole bottle of salt tables for the
next group, and it was much cooler a week later.
But you know, I'd not experienced that sort of humidity
in a long I reckon a decade.

Speaker 5 (15:18):
Yeah, there was one or two of us on there.
Adam heat cramped as well, Graham had cramps. It was
just we're all getting kicked and I thought, oh no,
I got seven days to go, and then found my
stride and it just it was good from then on.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
So again I was saying, as I Kate, highlights or
things that in five years or ten years time you
think will still sit with you.

Speaker 5 (15:40):
So I'll probably take a different perspective to Kadi is
from the military side. Mission Ridge nailed me with Hamish whites,
so that got me. The hilk that got me as
well is rather amazing. Just I got excited when I
saw the four pillars and I wasn't we weren't even
in the village yet. Just got that that exciting, the

(16:00):
same we've seen the archers, just that little okay, we're here,
this is this is kind of good.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
I just found something out for the first time. So Aiden,
who you guys know and you're doing, He's joining your
team in the Comcoda Challenge this weekend. You're mad buggers,
but he's been raped in because he talked about Bill
James and how they've found all those places. The four
BC radio did some stories and they spoke to Bill,
and you know, I've known no Bill, not well, but

(16:27):
you know, I've certainly chat to them a couple of
times over the years. And I hadn't realized that the
actual design of ishu Ava how we physically see it.
And I knew the pillars were written by the diggers
that he bought about him and another guy bought back over,
but they actually designed the whole thing. So that's one
of the most amazing monuments. And it's not designed by
someone in government or someone who wasn't there, or someone

(16:49):
who's not military. It's designed by the guys that fought there.
That just brings a whole different perspective to that. And
I've been doing this twenty plus years. I've only just
found that out. That's pretty cool.

Speaker 5 (16:58):
It's very cool, such a special place.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
And you can kind of see it now where it's now.
I'm thinking that from that point of view, you look
down the valley there and those four plints are like sentinels.
They're like standing guard almost.

Speaker 5 (17:10):
Like yeah, over where they fought.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, and those blokes are all in their late eighties
and early nineties when they did that, so yeah, that's
pretty cool. It was all made in Australia and carried
up there, but just the fact that it came from them.
Whereas I look at the arches at either end of
the track, I like the ones. The original ones are
the ones that I was corner, but the newer ones
at Kakoda they're fairly new because a lot of people
walk the other way and there was not that big
moment to finish, and I just feel they made them

(17:34):
look a bit like the Macas arches, but I just
wish they had done maybe something a little bit. Whereas
the ones at I was corner, if you read about them,
they're designed to look like actually the Rangers. That's why
they're kind of misshaped and all that sort of stuff.
So yeah, and I was just really interested to find
out that that the boys actually not only fought there
but got to design the just brings a lot more

(17:56):
power to it for me. So knowing what you know
now and Kate, you're do you still pee t people?
Not really a right, So to be a pt knowing
what you know now what would you do differently training
or what advice would you give to say, there's a
woman or a friend of yours, your age or similar.
Maybe she's working an office, maybe she hasn't had even

(18:17):
a physical background, and she's going to Kakada. What would
you tell her to do differently than what you train?

Speaker 4 (18:24):
Train harder, lots of hills, lots of hiking, lots of
strength work, especially through your legs. I mean I did
get to the gym and I did a lot of
squats and step ups and all kinds of different step ups.
But I think I just needed time on my feet
on the hills, like.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
On the slopes. You can't beat time on your legs. Yeah,
it's like a trath on or anything else. If you're
not on a bike, you know, you just don't get
the cays in your legs.

Speaker 4 (18:54):
But I mean I was walking a lot. I was
walking mainly just around our area though, so I was
getting kilometers and kilometers up, but no hills, no hills.
I needed likes deep incline, which I didn't get. So yeah,
definitely hitting the hills hard and lots of weights, lots
of step ups.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
So my next question is then being that you didn't
train adequately, you would say, in your words, not mine
before it, and you were still able to achieve it. Like, honestly,
what does that tell you about what else you could achieve?

Speaker 4 (19:28):
I think a lot of it might have been muscle
memory as well, because I used to train a lot.
But yeah, I think if I were to do it again,
I enjoy the uphills a lot more and just enjoy
probably the overall experience a lot more because I wouldn't
be looking down at my feet, looking down at Eddie's feet,

(19:49):
looking where he's stepping. I'd be looking up and enjoying
the scenery and things like that.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
So whose idea was it to you?

Speaker 4 (19:54):
Coco Todd's had as long as I've known him, he's
wanted to do it, and I think we started talking
about it a few years ago, like actually really talking
about it, and then last year he was just like,
it's going to be Glenn's last one.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
That was.

Speaker 5 (20:12):
Remember we ran into each other nineteen.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
Yeah, when we were training. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Well my question then, is like when the reason I
asked that, And obviously I had a fair idea, that's
it was your idea for now, but for UK on
days where you might have been hating it, Like the
night false Peaks was there. Every stage, You're looking at
Todd going like, screw you.

Speaker 4 (20:32):
Man, No, because I knew that he was in pain too.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
So shared pains.

Speaker 4 (20:36):
Okay, it was all right because I just yeah, I
just kept saying those three words or whatever it was,
would she be right? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (20:45):
And you knew the downhill was coming, so he got
his anyway. I took a lista my daughter to Cokato
the first time when she was eight, and the same
thing downhill because kids are just so pliable. She just
bounced down hill and I'll be struggling and yeah, so
you pay your price.

Speaker 4 (20:59):
Yeah, I think my knees. Everything sort of was pretty good,
with the with the hills, with the walk. Yeah, when
we got back, I think we both got a bit sick,
didn't we.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
How's your bodies when you got back? Like, how long
did it take to recover?

Speaker 4 (21:16):
I was just tired. Yeah, I don't know, maybe just
a few days I think it was, but we.

Speaker 5 (21:23):
Did notice that, Yeah, probably two days afterwards. When your
body goes, hang on, I don't have to get up
and walk for eight hours a day. I need to
recover now. And then everything sort of started repairing itself.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Because I've noticed that too, Like I noticed when you
get up every day your body seems okay, a few niggles,
but normally within one or two days, Like normally I'm
walking around the hotel, backing mores around the Crown and
all of a sudden, your leaks a stiff and you think,
But then if I do two kakotas, it's the same thing.
It's on the last of the end of the back one.
And so that's really interesting that your brain must just
go right, You're done now, now it's time to recover.

Speaker 4 (21:57):
Yea, I think because I went back to work. I
know you had an extra couple of days off work
induced work told you to. But I was back at
work on the Monday and dealing with some nice kids.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
So that was straight hanging in a reality.

Speaker 4 (22:16):
Yeah, but yeah, I was just tired.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Let's talk about that. The simplicity of life in PNG. Look,
that's one thing that gets me is most people have
never been to PNG. They think about Port Morsey, you know,
which is that's why it gets all the press. There's
a high unemployment rate, there can be a lot of violence,
all that sort of stuff, and sadly that's how we
judge that country. And yet when you get out into
well in your words, you know your thoughts. When you

(22:42):
get out into.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
The villages, Oh, just the kids are so happy. Like
I think everybody was saying like they had the slinky
and they were just playing with the slinking. I'm just like,
give my kids a slinky. Our boys are slinky and.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
They're like, what is that?

Speaker 4 (22:58):
Thanks give me my iPad. But yeah, seeing all the
kids at school playing their games on the on the computers,
I just feel like tapping them around the head and saying,
go to PMNG and you know, get some real experience,
even for us tapping on a keyboard.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
But then for us, like I find every time I
go and I do it a lot, I come back
feeling more relaxed and feeling that I want to keep
simplifying my life. But I need a constant reminder, like
for people like yourselves that might only do it once
or twice, unless you're Brenda and Leon who just keep
coming back every time. They're like me, They're like on
the Johnny Farnham tour every time the last time. But

(23:36):
if you're not going back regularly or doing something similar
in similar countries. You're not getting the regular reminder that
Western society is at such a pace. And I was
going to say, we're getting to an age. I don't
know if you guys are there yet, but certainly me
in my fifties you absolutely realize that you don't want
to run at a million miles down for the rest
of your life. Like in my twenties and thirties you're
all about that business. Forties, I was still doing it

(23:57):
a bit, but in my fifties, I'm like, actually, COVID
probably create that for me, Like I just needed to
take it down a level, you know. And then all
of a sudden, I thought, do I want to stop
doing kakodas or do I want to stop doing a
lot of other things that I'm doing Because I can't
do everything that I do. So I've actually started cutting
back the boxes and I'm training and whatnot in the
athletes I'm working with to do more I think in
the co code space because that makes me feel But

(24:19):
did you feel that sort of desire to simplify life
a little bit? Well when you got.

Speaker 4 (24:24):
Home finally enough you just moved into a vent. No,
not quite. I want to take the kids camping.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
There you go, there you go.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
I want to go somewhere where there's no phone like,
no technology, nothing, Just get them away from it all
and let them see that just being outdoors, being in
the jungle or bushy.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
I think these days you're going to have to take
phones off, and I'll tell you why, P and G.
You never used to get any service on the track,
and now there's a few days of you're getting it.
I just did IZI ten peaks, and I took a
girl over who works for Amazon, and I took a
guy who worked for Facebook years ago, and they're both
working on two different systems of so that there is
not a place in the world you will be able

(25:07):
to go that doesn't have Wi Fi. I know, because
obviously that suits their purpose. But I know for me,
and I'm as bad as the next person. We're all
going to be sitting on their phones updating and we
won't be able to share the Kakoda experience without the
selfie taking in that moment as opposed to just enjoying it.
And so I'm happy that I've enjoyed the last twenty
years when that's not been the case. In fact, it's

(25:28):
only been in the last ten years where when you're
walking up to the arts, everyone's got their phones out
to film it. And I used to say to people,
just experience it like old film it for you, but
just experience it. We don't do that anymore. Look at
people at concerts now you just see a million phones up.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
And you're watching your phone. Because I've been to a
couple of concerts this year and you're just watching your phone,
watching those.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
And I wonder how often you'd go back and actually
watch that footage you took.

Speaker 4 (25:50):
Yeah, oh well I took Matthew and he has. He's
gone back and he spent hours and hours just watching
back the performances. But I don't think most people would.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
So I think if you're going to go camping and
you almost all have to put your devices away, yeah,
ourselves included, I'd be happy with that. That's the only
way around. Because Kakoto is to love that you couldn't
get service. But now he's starting to get service in
places used to because because I had Brian messaging me
from the top of You're about and I'm like, what
how am I getting text messages from him that's not
on the SAP phone? And it was coming through quicker

(26:23):
than the SAP phone that Heidi had. Oh really yeah,
so his messages were like coming through instantly and sending photos.
So you could have a fever of service to pull
that off. So that's pretty sad that that's kind of happening,
But that's natural progression. I guess of things, who knows
for you brand thoughts of I always think about do
you miss the Army? And know, well, I'm not really

(26:44):
out because I'm still carrying a backpack and I'm still
doing stuff. It's just not quite got the same extremes
of how we do things. But I feel it connects
me to the military. Sell did you feel that out there?
Like you're I don't want to sound all wanky, but
when I sit on Brigade Hill, particularly of a nighttime,
or you know, in the dark around the Shiava places
like that, I feel something there. And I took my

(27:05):
best mate Keith Fanala Cross and he was the youngest
Australian to make it into the Essays back when he
was twenty years of age, and he got really emotional
on Brigade Hill. And Keith does not get emotional. He'll
probably killed me for saying that. But and his wife
was there and his kids, and she'd been with him
since I was fourteen. She said, I've never seen him
get emotional. And his best mate was killed in Afghanistan,
and he said it just brought all of that back

(27:27):
to him. And so I just feel like it has
a real spiritual feel to it. When you're standing on
the ground where forty seven diggers were buried on Brigade Hill.
They're not there now, obviously, but it still has that field.
Did you feel that at any stage?

Speaker 5 (27:41):
Yeah, there were several locations that I had that our
mission Ridge. When you were talking, it killed me. It
broke me, had a little moment to myself. Then I
got up to Brigade Hill and when the ode was read,
that got me again. And funnily enough, when we passed
through the arches were all happy and laughing. But then
I turned and faced Kate. We'd finished. Did me again?

(28:05):
Just those few little emotional tips and the track.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
It's interesting, the one on Mission rid Jo generally ask
people to sit down facing out, so I want us
to feel like we're one of the biggest sitting here
waiting for the enemy, and a lot of people trekking
kind of resist that initially, like, oh, you know, I'm
going to get a wet bumba up and thinking man
when you hear the story, a web bumbs nothing. And
I just wanted people to be in that moment and

(28:30):
how we tell that story is really important because I'm
training adventure leaders up you know, the Heidi's and Bryans
and people who already have leadership capacity. But I always
say to them, you're not going to be where you
need to be until you can tell that story. Well,
that's to me the important piece because if you're leading
people across Kakoda and this does happen in some companies
and you don't have the story down, pat, I feel

(28:50):
like you're ripping people off of I used to say
half the experience, probably a third, because I think the
experience is the physical experience that we all go through.
It's the military history, and it's a connection to the
country with the locals, a killer and his boys that
they've all got their peace. Each way of us is
going to struggle differently, like someone like Aid and physically fit,
never going to worry about the physical capacity because he's
twenty six years old and you've got a six pack,

(29:12):
But he loves his military history, and so that certainly
I think was something that was quite powerful for him.
And then I often get people that have an experience
they don't expect to have, which you'll be I didn't
expect the sort of emotional side to it, or I
didn't expect it to feel spiritual or but whatever that
means to people, you always get something more over it
than you think.

Speaker 5 (29:31):
Absolutely. Kate and I were discussing this. We're trying to
think what with the biggest advantage or takeaway from it
was doesn't matter what mental health you're suffering from, whether
it's mental, physically or whatever, You've got that time on
the track and it just lets you be with your one,
with yourself and just to give you some clarity and

(29:51):
if you know someone suffering PTSD is just it helps.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
We used to run programs for the mates and mates
pre COVID. They haven't not got back into him since COVID,
but it was really good for that because a lot
of PTSD. My experience of working with PSDs, well, there's
a detachment from the military. Firstly when we get out
and we don't feel like we're important anymore. But also
it's when people get PSD. They get really insula. You know,

(30:17):
it's like they lock themselves away from the world and
they isolate and they feel like they're the only ones
going through it, which they've actually created themselves. When we
were taking people to Kakoona, I've taken people from Vietnam
veterans right through to modern day. They get to experience
other people have been through this too, And to be honest,
the treatments available and the options for us today are
one hundred times better than they were twenty or thirty

(30:39):
years ago. Even so, it's not the lack of resources
out there, it's a lack of our capacity to go
after the resource. But just connecting people to well, Cocoda
is a good story. You know, not all our stories
in the military are good stories. I think Team Are
is a good story because we've got a good outcome
for the country. I think Afghanistan, sadly you're Vietnams. We
weren't wanted in those countries, so the outcome for those

(31:00):
soldiers it wasn't as good. And so having a good
story of realizing that they were part of something bigger,
but also connecting ourselves to people in the past and
went through this because the DIGG is a World War
Two we're told go home and just forget about it.
How do you forget about what happened there? Like, that's ridiculous,
and let alone the fact that you know, thirteen hundred
people were killed through that campaign Australians. That's crazy to

(31:21):
think just go ahead and forget about it. But yeah,
I find that was good. The only negative I found
from a PTSD program idea for guys and girls that
have been out for a few years is it was
like a mini deployment. So you train them for twelve
weeks and you ramped them up for a deployment. They
go on the deployment and through mates, mates in the
RSL and whatnot. There was not a and this is

(31:42):
not a slide on them. I don't think we thought
about it. There was no pick up on the other end.
So he just went back to your normal life, which
typically was semi retired or whatever. And now it's over,
you know. And so we actually were getting that post
deployment drop off we weren't thinking about. And I've had
guys message me six and twelve months after a trip
who had PTSD saying then that, oh something changed for

(32:03):
me out there, but it's taken them a long time
to assess it. And what the rso used to want
is to tick a box immediately. That'd make him fill
out a form to say, well, you felt crap at
the start of this, do you feel better now? And
it's like, well, my body's just trying to recover. I'm
not quite there yet. But then six or twelve months later,
I got one guy that used to message me once
a year for five or six years. It hasn't been
for a while, and he said he used to always

(32:23):
say to me, I felt like a weight lift off
my shoulders on Brigade Hill, Like I left something there
that's pretty powerful. But how do you quantify that in
a tick and flick form? You know, it doesn't get
to unfortunately, But that's the power of these sort of
experiences and why people need to tell the story. Well,
I don't think you have to be a soldier to
run the trip. I think it helps. I don't think
you have to be, but you have to know the

(32:45):
story otherwise because if you go, you think about it.
If say you're hiding or someone's on the trip running
it and she doesn't understand, you know, a simple thing
like sections, batoons, battalions, whatever, and she's talking to you
who's been in the army for twenty eight years. You
can't bluff that right or when they mispronouncing it. And
she's highly is a bad example because she's very conscious

(33:05):
of it and she'll always see me something, what does
this mean? And it's just it'll be an abbreviation for
lieutenant colonel. But we know that. But you know, if
they don't know that, I guess.

Speaker 5 (33:13):
She's passionate, wants to get it right.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah, that's right, and that's what makes the difference. It's
not just loving adventures, loving the story that goes with
that adventure. So yeah, So a lot of people say
it's life changing. I want to ask, it's only four weeks,
but how does life change for each of you? But
what do you take away as a positive that you
think you can carry forward? And hopefully we'll carry forward.

Speaker 5 (33:34):
I personally got a lot out of it, mentally, physically,
he's a bonus. Lost a lot of weight too. But
I feel like I understood the history a lot more.
Love the country so much. Go back tomorrow. It's just
instilled and you just really want to go back and
give back and It's changed me and I've got a

(33:55):
different perspective on how life is.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
At work.

Speaker 5 (33:59):
I've got to get this done now. It's like he'll
be there tomorrow. It's very much not on the traite
twenty minutes. That's that's a big thing I've taken away personally.

Speaker 4 (34:10):
I was told I work with one of the guys
from from over there, but I think he was from
I can't pronounce the name of the island above or yeah,
that's it, yeah, And he kept telling me I'm on
island time because I wouldn't move when the bell went
at school. I was just like yeah. But I found

(34:34):
that it's given me a lot more confidence as a person.
So looking sort of intrinsically, it's given myself a lot
of confidence. I'm sticking up for myself more. It's given
so camping, which I haven't done before, obviously, has given
me showing myself that I can do that, I can
I can do anything. So on top of the world.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
You'll have to you'll have to get a second job
because once you go to camping stores, you realize how
much money you can spend.

Speaker 4 (35:03):
You already looked.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
You will go down to Connor and you can walk
out of they're very poor. Yeah, yeah, so.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
You've got to know what I want from there yet,
but we'll have the conversation eventually.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Birthdays and Christmas wishless so, And I guess the big
challenge for you guys and anyone tracking Conkada is to
be conscious of those changes and keeping them going for
because we fall very quickly back into the life. And
I remember during COVID where after six months people are like, well,
I've connected with my family more, I've just learned to
take the pace off a little bit, and I'm going

(35:35):
to keep doing that. And six months after COVID was over,
everyone's society's just pumping at a million miles an hour
and you're back on the hamster wheel. So yeah, that's
maybe something that you can consciously take out of it
and normally ask people what the next challenge is. But
I know for you guys, so you're doing the Kakoda challenge.

Speaker 4 (35:50):
Is that a challenge though, well not by.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Comparison, but think about I was going to say if
you hadn't done the training that you did for this one,
but you've done Cocoda challenges a lot before, so I.

Speaker 4 (36:00):
Like the premise behind it. Is to raise funds for kids,
to get them outdoors and to get them hiking. And
they used to take the kids over to Kakoda.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
I wonder why they don't do that anymore.

Speaker 4 (36:14):
It and then they started doing a camel track. I
think it was in Western Australia. And now I'm not
entirely sure what they do, but I like raising funds
for kids, knowing where it's going and knowing that it's
helping sort of disadvantage kids or disengaged kids. So I'll
keep doing the Cookoda challenge. I love it for that and.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Your bodies feel good. You've had a four week break,
Like how much training have you done since finishing Kakoda
to do the cocata a little bit.

Speaker 4 (36:43):
We're doing our ten thousand steps a day.

Speaker 5 (36:47):
Ten steps today. Regardless where you were.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
What were you averaging? Any of you keep the average
on Kokoda?

Speaker 4 (36:52):
Oh, it was over twenty to thirty.

Speaker 5 (36:56):
Twenty thirty and about six thousand calories a day.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
It's crazy, isn't it? Because I'm averaging on those little
days in particular twenty seven to thirty two thousand. Yeah,
and I don't even know the calories. Mine's just a
step counter II. Yeah, that's crazy because you weren't unfit.
I mean it's a different as we get older, it's
a different fitness.

Speaker 4 (37:18):
It's harder to keep it off too as you get older,
to isn't it, or to lose it and then keep
it off.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
We run youth development programs here and we base my
fitness mindset adventure, which is what's written out the front
of the gym here, and so I think adventure is
important part. So I agree with that stuff. And I
don't know they have to take them to Kakota or
just take them out on weekend stuff if you could
facilitate that. But we're doing the opposite. We've been doing
those small things for a while. And next year we're

(37:43):
going to go to Kakoda with a group I think
it's September of the dates slated for, and we're going
to do twenty boys and twenty girls with my normal
staff who's staff those programs here but haven't done Coakoda before.
So they're school teachers and someone that work with me
that I mentor. We're going to go up and we're
going to spend three nights in aalola as part of

(38:05):
a normal trek, but stay there for three nights, which
gives them two full days. One day, like the boys
will go up to the school at Abawari, which is
oh wow. Apparently the kids, the local kids do it
in two hours. Our kids might need to leave a
bit earlier, and they'll all have porters as part of
their charter, so there'll be people with them, and the
girls will then go out into the fields with the

(38:27):
women and work in the farms, and then the next
day that's hop over and then we'll finish off and
we'll keep walking the track. And we're going to try
and fundraise through some charitable organizations for that because a
lot of kids can't afford it. And that brings me
to that point of when we talk about cold code
being life changing, the people who most need their life
change can't afford it. It's not a cheap endeavor to
do these days with flights and all that. So that's

(38:48):
what we're trying to do, and I think it'll be
pretty powerful if you can get some of these disengaged
young people, particularly the island and indigenous communities that we
work a lot in to go and see how an
indigenous culture like you know, the pub in Guineas how
they live still so true to their true history. I
think that'd be very powerful for them. And I know
my boys they love anyone that's got even a little

(39:10):
bit of color. I've taken salm Owen's and Tonguan's and
they're like, we're all brothers as far as they're concerned,
and sisters, so they'll look forward to that experience themselves
and as well. So, yeah, that's what we're going to
do September next year. A yeah, I do like that idea.
I just think of being out in the middle of nowhere.
But we'll probably just have to take their phones offrom
now that phone started. Although most kids probably won't have
international raiming, international rangey fair. What would you do differently?

(39:35):
This is another because I haven't asked yet as far
as gear that you take or don't take. Is there
something you wish you'd had that you didn't have, or
is there something you dragged all the way across the
track and thought I didn't really need that?

Speaker 4 (39:46):
I think more socks?

Speaker 2 (39:48):
How mean you have?

Speaker 4 (39:49):
I had four?

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Right? Yeah, that's all I take.

Speaker 4 (39:52):
Yeah, but I wish I had one for every day. Yeah,
it's probably undias too, because I was pretty much the
same with mynt Like I thought i'd just like rinse
them out and they'd be cool. But yeah, there's nothing
like a fresh pair Bundanes in a fresh pair of socks.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
And did you use one every day?

Speaker 5 (40:08):
The clean socks dragged back to our It's like.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
A little luxury, right, Yeah, well.

Speaker 5 (40:12):
The old school clean socks, even if it's for five minutes,
ten minutes, the clean socks. Yeah, and your feet are
gold on that track.

Speaker 4 (40:21):
I think something that Todd would would probably take as well.
Are two things.

Speaker 5 (40:26):
Don't kick tent pigs on the second day.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Did you not have shoes on it all? Like thongs
or something or flips?

Speaker 5 (40:37):
The porters had a knack for only putting them about
four inches out of the ground, and I saw it.
I dodged it.

Speaker 4 (40:42):
I think I just said to you watch the tent
pegs and years like got it?

Speaker 5 (40:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (40:47):
That one?

Speaker 5 (40:48):
That one A short explanation at carve my toe open
on the big toe?

Speaker 2 (40:53):
How's that now?

Speaker 5 (40:54):
It healed about two weeks after the track. But it
was just agony the whole trip. And she pumped it,
you kicked at your lant on it. It was it
was fun, but that was the only problem I had
with my feet.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
That's pretty and looking after your feet to a big things.
So nothing else you would have liked to have taken.

Speaker 4 (41:09):
I think Todd needed a jump up.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
Did you get a bit cooked?

Speaker 5 (41:13):
Gets a bit called up the top there? I needed
the extra or the electrolytes. And I just got exhausted
because I was trying to place myself with the water,
with the food, not eating every stop and then realizing
that you need to eat.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
That's unfortunately for us. That's a military trade, isn't it,
Where you don't know a twenty four our food pack
might you might not get another one in a hurry
if you're patrolling. And so even though that's when we
were young blokes, I still think we use water discipline,
which is what the ARM used to call not drinking
and food discipline. Yeah, because and then when you get
your new pack, you scoff at all all right, now
I've got more food, and but you might not get

(41:53):
a twenty four pack might last you two or three days.
And that's happened to us. Or you don't know when
you get your next water, so that's that's a trap.

Speaker 5 (42:00):
I think that's what happened on that night was I
had all the snacks, all the ones that Brooklyn put
in there, but they were all still there. I only
had my three meals, and then I realized, hang on
on the I mean a deficit here, and then quickly
started eating and the next changed it up. Got the
salt into me early in the day, and I was
right for the rest of the trip.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Have you spoken to many people since you got back
to the military, because you'd be suppose how many people
in the military don't know about Kokota still, which is
how I started doing Cokoda was getting I was up
in towns or it has been getting and I got
tasks to do us by the patuning commander, or I
came remember to do a talk on a battle. That
always pick a section commander to do. That was that
mead company or health company. And I did a kakoda

(42:41):
and back then people weren't really tracking it. I had
no idea what had really happened to you, And I'd
been in the army ten years at that stage, I
was like, this is embarrassing, how do how do we
not know this stuff? And I'd asked a couple of
my mates and diggers and calls them up. We hadn't
heard of it either, and I was quite embarrassed because
man like our forefathers fought and died here and that's
what started this whole process for me. And then I
was very fortun to the treking started to kick off

(43:03):
as well, and it kicked off before everyone passed away,
so at least we got to hear from these And
Bill James actually said that in the interview on four
BC that if he waited ten more years, he wouldn't
have had access to all those guys that were able
to help him find them, and it would have been lost.
What a travesy that could happen. That's how I got
into But have you spoken to anyone since you got back?

Speaker 5 (43:22):
I'm on the other side. I put it in every
conversation I can, they're saying, how are you going good?
I woll co goda then just to start that conversation,
mainly the military guys, that's the big one, because it's
definitely a conversation starter on how fit you are? Can
you do it? Can't you do it? I've always wanted
to do it, the history and so much so. There's

(43:44):
a couple of my good friends on your trek next
anzact Dat.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Oh cool, doubt yeah, right, So I just added a
second ANZAC dating because with that I'm personally leading. And
two different guys roomy. One's a Vietnam vent who's done
Cocoda with me already and he's in his seventies Wally,
and he said, and he's indigenous as well as a
great blake And he said, mate, can you fit twelve
of us on there? There? We can fit twelve on,
and so of all of his mates. And then another

(44:07):
bloke who I took with Act for Kids. So I
did one for years ago for Act for Kids through
a great charity, and I took Daniel Walkham's brothers across
the track and a group of people. It's pretty an
emotional and powerful trip. But this guy read me up
and said, mate, I've got like ten or two of
us I want to do ANZAC And I said, oh,
it's getting tired, so it's going to depend. But yeah,
we could end up doing three for anything. I don't

(44:28):
know work it out, but they'll be good. So if
you know, you run into someone and they're thinking about
doing Kokodo and most of the people think about them
most likely going to go, what would be just to
sort of finish up for today, their final your sort
of final tips to them. In a nutshell, if you
had five minutes with them, what would you say, Yeah,

(44:48):
it's great, do it, but and make sure you do this,
this and.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
This or oh look, I wouldn't put any butts in there.
I'd just go just do it. Like if you want
to learn something new about yourself, about our history, just
do it. Don't waste any time.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Just you're lucky you did it.

Speaker 4 (45:08):
Touch with Glenn Lucky did young Cat.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
It's funny people get into their forties and we think
we're old. And I'm now in my fifties. I think
there's I've still got a bit of life in me.
But you don't know when that runs out for people,
Like if you spend twenty years in an office, you know,
as opposed to out physically doing stuff, that's that's a
different you know, I've taken the oldest I personally take
was a seventy nine year old lady from Melbourne. When

(45:34):
was it, I don't think it was a July last
year I took it. Lady, it was seventy two or
seventy four. She was at the front of the pack
and she would get annoyed with herself. When the uphill
she would just drop back to about tenth and she'd
be really off herself, and you go, you, hey, come on,
like there's people half your age that are that are
an hour behind you somewhere. But you know, and then

(45:54):
I've seen, as I've said, I think when we're over there,
I've seen thirty year old struggle. So it's not physicality,
it's got to be mindset.

Speaker 5 (46:00):
What else is going to be Look at the range
of ages we had on ours. Youngest was Cameron, yeah, six,
and then George so yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Yeah, she was nineteen or twenty.

Speaker 5 (46:14):
Yeah, and then we had John sixty three. So what
a range. And it didn't matter on what age they were.
We were up the front, down the back, in the middle,
it didn't matter.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
I asked Avo this, and you would have heard it
a couple of weeks ago because we all served together
at different points. But were you surprised at how well
that group gelled because we experienced it all the time
in the military. But when you've got a group of civilians,
because I've got to say it's probably one of the
best groups I've had gelled like that. They're always pretty good,
but that team just seemed to click in the place.

(46:45):
And they're from all around the part. They were from
Thailand and you know like Ossie's but all living all
around the place, most of Australia, and they just gelled immediately.

Speaker 5 (46:53):
They touched on it. Their first day at the airport,
you could see that something was happening. And then when
we got into hooy for the first night, everyone was
sort of giggly and carrying on and helping each other.
And then on my talk and day two I saw
it straight up. You just sit back and it didn't
matter who it was. People were talking to somebody they
never touched before and they're just hanging out.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
It's hard to quantify that experience that people listening, isn't it. Yeah,
you've got to experience that to go. I get it's
a shared hardship type thing. Or but even on day
one it wasn't even a hardship, but it was just
a shared experience.

Speaker 5 (47:25):
Twenty eight people from all walks a live different when Tasmania, Sydney, Brisbane.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
It was from somebody did all the beaches and then
joined in yeh Canada camp.

Speaker 5 (47:36):
It is a good experience.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Because you've spent the majority of your life in the military, absolutely,
so to witness that outside of the military, outside of
say a football team or something you know you can
all remember Under twelve or under fourteen Grand Final team
or whatever. Outside of that, it's very unusual for a
group of people eclectically to come together. And I think, again,
that's the power of Kakoda. And this is how I
think about it. The diggers at fought Over there had

(48:00):
no idea what they were doing outside of defending our country.
But I reckon if they could in any way whatever
you believe the afterlife to be. To see the impact
they're still having, that's powerful. But that's really really powerful
to think that eighty something years later and we're still
there's a benefit to what we did here. You know,
people talk about leaving legacy, like stop it. That's a legacy,

(48:21):
and it's our role as soldiers and as Ozzie is
to keep that alive, I think.

Speaker 5 (48:26):
Or get the history out there for Frustratia. A lot
of people don't realize the history behind it.

Speaker 4 (48:29):
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
I took these Americans over once from a team in
the National Australia back and they said, we didn't even
know Australia was in the Second World War. Stop it
because outside of America, the world doesn't exist for it.
So but you know, we have a very significant history
and it's something that I think. I'm not about glorifying war.
It just is what it is. But it's certainly something

(48:50):
that we should never forget either when.

Speaker 4 (48:52):
People I think we need to talk about it more.
My granddad who I never got to meet, unfortunately, but
he was over there. I only just learned when we
got back Milm.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Bay it was there. Also, I did you a favor
while you guys are trekking and I flew out. I
went to selfless.

Speaker 4 (49:13):
Even just talking about it with friends and family, you
learn things all the time. So I think the more
we talk about it, the more we get other people
to talk about it, the more you're going to learn,
the more interest it's going.

Speaker 5 (49:26):
To peak conversation starter.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Get people over there before I let you get out
of here. But man and wore symmetry dawn service. But
even just going there straight after the trek, the impact
of the feeling of.

Speaker 4 (49:38):
That, oh surreal, wasn't It was eerie seeing the fog
or the myst come over during our.

Speaker 5 (49:46):
Last post to put it, put it into words, the
cenotaphe was clear and then the last post came and
that fog just comes straight across. Just timing it was
just amazing.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
Just think about that. It's just a and you know
we've been Nantic days all around the world obviously as veterans.
To again have that experience and to see four thousand
odd graves sitting there of young Australians or mostly Australians,
it's pretty powerful for that dawn service. I've done a
lot of dawn services there. I wouldn't give them up
for the world. And such a good experience.

Speaker 5 (50:20):
It's so good too that you if you've got the
Anzac Day experience before it and then going after it,
you actually get to do it with the other traps,
so you get whether it's before or after you're doing it,
and it's just still special.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
You guys are legends.

Speaker 4 (50:35):
Thank you, Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
So.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
The Leousy Harms Stupieffee Racing Bond and visits to.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
The bond between Ossie's and the peace people of Papu
and New Guinea was forged in war and it endures
in peace. We've felt that friendliness that special connection and
the comforting presence of our porters and in every small
community along the Kokoda Track. WHOA.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
Okay, guys, thanks for tuning in. It would be awesome
if you'd share this with anyone you know that's going
to the Kakoda Track or that has been and has
a keen interest in the track. It's people and those
that choose to track it.

Speaker 6 (51:51):
The Pillars of Isheraba say, courage, endurance, makeship, and sacrifice
great words to live by, and this podcast will offer
makeshift and a place for those that live and love
the co Coda Track experience until next episode, live a
life that inspires you and those around you, and remember
to take time out to think.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
About what's really important, what's really important, What's really important?
Thanks for listening to the Kakoda Track Podcast. To get
in touched or stay up to date, go to Kakoda
Track Podcast on Facebook or email Glen at Adventure Professionals
dot com dot A. You don't forget to subscribe and share.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
With your friends.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Let's keep the spirit and the stories of Kakoda and
the P and G people alive.