Kokoda with Adam Davis

ADVENTURE PROFESSIONALS

 

KOKODA TRACK INFORMATION

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apodja production. This podcast is proudly brought to you by
Adventure Professionals www dot Adventure Professionals dot com dot au.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
For me, Mission Ridge and Brigade Hill. The whole Kakoda campaign.
More people need to know about it, or know everyone
knows someone who's trek Kokoda, but to actually understand the
stories of what these young guys did, It's harrowing what
they went through.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
They were staunched to the end against odds uncounted, and
they fell with their faces to the.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Welcome to the Kakoda Track podcast, hosted by former solject
Glen Asa. This is the place to hear stories from
those who've trecked Kakoda and gained tips and knowledge about
what to expect on the track, or to relive your
own amazing experiences. The Kakoda Track Podcast keeping the spirit
of Kakoda alive.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hey Tam Glenes walking back to the Kokoda podcast. Now,
it's an interesting one, this one because I'm chating to
a made of mine is also ex military Adam Davis,
And you know, I haven't seen much of Adam over
the last few years, but he reached out recently wanting
to do Kokoda and it's always an honor for me
when I get to take other veterans away on trips.
Obviously that's one thing, but then blokes that I know

(01:27):
in particular or people that I know, I mean, that's
an extra special one. So we just did the Anzac
day trip. It was a great trip, and so it's
a good chance to have a chat about all of that. Also,
quickly wanted to let you know that a lot of
people since the podcast has come back online have messaged
me about wanting me specifically to lead them across Kakoda
and there are certainly dates if you go to adventure

(01:49):
professionals dot com dot au that particularly have my name
next to him. I've had a lot of people asking
about Anzac. Now, my first Anzac that I'm leading is full,
So that's the sixteenth to the twenty sixth. Absolutely chocolate
block cannot fit another person that, so I'm doing a
second set of dates which we just put on the website,
which will go over on the twenty fourth. We'll do

(02:11):
dawn service Atbamana War Cemetery, which is amazing, and then
we'll go out onto the track. So if you want
to book on that second set of dates, they are up,
and later on in the next sort of week or two,
I'll put up all the dates available that I will
be leading will be on the website as well, right
through twenty twenty five and twenty twenty six. So do
you want to get on with me, That is the
chance to do it anyway, without further ado, let's head

(02:34):
over and talk to Adam, one of my good mates
ex veteran, and just talk about his experiences on the
Kakoda track for Anzac Day.

Speaker 4 (02:44):
There's nothing that you can think of that it's going
to be like. And what I mean by that is
I didn't have any expectations and I knew it was
going to be relatively tough, and that was probably the
main reason why I went there, is because I wanted
to experience, in some way shape or for me, exactly

(03:05):
what they had experienced. Now I know that as best
we can as best we can right because we didn't
have gun fire, we weren't carrying ammunition, we weren't carrying
load or stock. We had fires every night, we had
food supplied to us by our porters.

Speaker 5 (03:26):
We had a tent set up for us, so there.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Was a lot. You're making a sound too easy now.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
So for me, I wanted to try and immerse myself
into that as much as I could. But you're not
going to well, whatever you think is going to happen,
it's not going to happen. It's not going to be
like what you think it's everyone's different. Everyone has their
own experience.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Right, did you know what to expect?

Speaker 4 (03:49):
Thought like, I'd been wanting to do this for five
six years.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
We ran into each other a long time ago and
you first mentioned it.

Speaker 4 (03:56):
Yeah, And as happens, things getting the way COVID work life,
and I'm like, I just need to to put this
on paper and do it. And so for me, it
was always a bucket list item, had to get it done,
wanted to get it done, but wanted to get it

(04:16):
done because, Yeah, I wanted to experience what the track
is like and what they went through to some extent.
Like I said, but it punched me in the face
a couple of times.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
And we should probably give people context that you're how
old are you now?

Speaker 5 (04:30):
Forty seven? Men? How young mine out?

Speaker 2 (04:32):
How youngeven? We're younger than me forty seven? Ex military
you'll fit as still, So just to give people context.
It's not like because when we're talking about some of
the stuff we're talking about, you know, having fires every night,
and most people who know camping would go of course,
but as soldiers, we know white light's not a thing.
So we're just giving people context. You do come from

(04:52):
a military background. We've known each other for quiet a
period of time. We've got mutual mates like Richie Gibson
and people, so this is kind of our bread and
butter at some points of our life, and so then
we're kind of honoring that as well.

Speaker 4 (05:04):
Yeah, we are. And you know, even though I was
in the military and served you up in Townshill in
different units, I didn't know a lot of history about
the Kokoda track, and I knew going with you I
was going to get that intel.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Did I ever tell you how I came to learn
it myself? No? All right, So when I was in Townsll,
when we were up there, one of my platoon commanders
or company commanders used to make the section commanders the
corporals get up and talk about things like just to
get used to presenting in front of the troops, And
so in front of my company, I had to get
up and he gave me this task of talking about Kokoda,

(05:37):
and back then people weren't really trekking Kakoda. So this
is mid nineties. I mean a little bit of trekking,
but I'm talking in the nineties there was like one
hundred people a year, two hundred people year maximum, and
there were no books as a result, because the trekking
industry wasn't big. And so there was a book called
Those Ragged Bloody Heroes, and I came, remember what there
was two? So I went and read them. And I

(05:57):
went and said to some of my mates, a couple
of my other corpors and a couple of diggers who
I was good friends with, have you black shard about
this battle? And they're like, nah, I'd been in the
army tea years, and I'm like, how have we not
heard about this significant battle. We hear all about Gallipoli
and all that, as we should, but we won this
battle first and foremost against crazy odds, defending our own country.
I was actually embarrassed as a ten year soldier that

(06:20):
it was never taught to us, and that's what started
my passion for it. And then while I was in
the army, a group of us went over hired to
some local porters at local company, and that's all your
options were back then outside of sort of Charlie and
a couple of the older Vietnam vets doing it, and
we just kind of went and worked it out and
it was way more, you know, rudimentary than it is

(06:41):
now even And that was my first experience.

Speaker 5 (06:44):
You've done very well.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
Now we're ninety one trips in as the time we
record this, and it's and it's a passion for that history.
So I do respect and thank you as an next
side of picking that up. Not everyone necessarily picks it up.
You know that the military history is as important part.
You can't just trek League of Code, in my opinion,
and we talk about this soon, but we both experienced

(07:08):
and women we're over there. Trek leaders are pretty average.
And I'm not disrespecting other companies, but sometimes I've had
a maid of mine rang me and said, one of
my best friends, she did Kakoda in twenty nineteen as
a tracker, and this year she's leading one and she's
been given no training and I won't name the company,
and I'm like, yes, she's very passionate about it. Okay, yeah,
but you're robbing people of a really good experience. If

(07:29):
you've done Cokoda once and you're now leading it just
because you're passionate about adventures. Yeah, maybe you can do
that everesp base camp or killiman Jarro, but Kakoda requires you,
I think, to give the military history, to give the
local history. Otherwise you're doing a disservice to the clients
to the track. That's just my opinion.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
And you did that mate in space. When I review
the trip now it's been what two three weeks, that
was probably the biggest thing that came through for me
was learning so much from you and having those moments
on the track where you would stop and you give
us an education about what happened, what battle has curred here,

(08:06):
and so yeah, that was a big takeaway for me
because I didn't know all that history, and I wanted
to know that there were some guys on that track
who were up to date with it, and it was
really inspiring to see, you know, guys that weren't in
the military, they just loved military history.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty special. So based off the fact
you didn't really know what to expect, I normally ask
people didn't live up to your expectations. Well, you must
have had some expectation about the whole trip of what
you wanted to get out of it. Did you get that?

Speaker 5 (08:36):
Yes and no.

Speaker 4 (08:37):
So when I say yes, my expectations of being tough
and experienced such a landscape that I'd never had any
preconceived idea about the history. It ticked all those boxes.
The one thing that didn't take for me, this is
just a personal thing, right because at the moment, I
find myself trying to revisit the experience and there's a

(08:58):
few days there where I've like, I can't remember those days.
So for me, it's just personally trying to go back
to that that place and that that happens because you
come back into let's say, the real world, things take
over family.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
You get busy, so busy, and so.

Speaker 4 (09:17):
You find that that not disconnection, but that ability to
really sit in the moment and reflect on what you've
done sometimes slowly starts to pull away from you. And
so I'm trying to do that. Even last night I
was like, Okay, I need to sit with this. So
I'm trying to do that more so I can really.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
What's but you kept notes, you were talking before the party,
You kept notes and you suggested you were talking about
potentially maybe having a go pro and I stopped you except,
we talk about it on the show, But is it
to do a little video review that you might not
I'm not saying you need to post this on social
just saying we're in this village and we get the answer.

Speaker 5 (09:57):
So yes, for me, I feel like that was Glenn.

Speaker 4 (10:00):
So yeah, every day, at the end of every day,
I would sit down in my tent and I'll grab
my phone out and I would write just a few
general notes so that I could expand on that when
I got back. But last night reviewing that I would
have loved to have had a go pro and just
turn it on for a few minutes during the start
and end of every session that we walked, just so

(10:22):
I could remind myself what the location was and what
the the areas and the things that we're seeing and
visiting were.

Speaker 5 (10:30):
That's just me personally. I think I would have got
a lot.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
More appreciation now of what we did and where we were.
There's a lot that I do remember, but there's just
a day there. I think it was day three that
I'm like, what was that place that we went to? Again?
I can't quite remember it.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
I get photos all the time from people saying where's
this place and where's that place? Or I'll get people
ringing me and they might have done Cocoda like nine
years ago and they I'm going from my cacada to
do you remember we had morning tea on day?

Speaker 5 (10:57):
And you remember ninety one trips and you remember everything.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Don't you exactly? But the problem is I know where
I intend to stop, because it's always an tension is
the same. But I also know how many trips that
changes you to weather whatever injuries, there's things that change.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
Well, we had that straight away, didn't we We flew
to Popping Derta Pop and Detta and we jump on
those trucks, which felt like I was back in the
military straight away. So I was okay, I'm getting used
to this really quickly.

Speaker 5 (11:26):
And where did we go? What was the little village
we went to?

Speaker 4 (11:29):
First?

Speaker 5 (11:29):
Where is that shopping center?

Speaker 4 (11:30):
Shopping more?

Speaker 2 (11:31):
That was in Popen'dta. So we're in the airport which
is outside Popingdetta. Then we went into Popping Datta right
shopping center.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
And so that little sort of drive in was quite
interesting because straight away you're getting immersed in the culture,
and you're looking at the heart's rays off the ground,
You're looking at kids walking down the roads, waving and
just all happy smiles everywhere. That was the big thing
I got away from that trip was they are just
so happy in their environment.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, and we kind of lose that in Western society.
And I talk about this a lot on this show
end on the Building Better Humans project, that we think
that we require more things to be happy. I heard
it quote recently saying, all the things that you've achieved
and all the things that you have now you once
thought were going to make you happy. And that hit
me pretty hard, and so I regularly go through process

(12:17):
of decluttering, and any time in your guinea, it just
reminds me that you don't need a lot to be happy.
You know, we've just and I don't know how to
change that, but whstern societies kind of lost that a
little bit. If it brought nothing else to people, the
physical challenge of military history, the makeship, the camaraderie, all
of that stuff, if none of that happened and all
you took away was that just rebalance yourself a little

(12:37):
bit as an animal, as a human, I reckon. That's
pretty cool.

Speaker 4 (12:40):
Yeah, definitely did that. And so going back to you know,
things change a lot. I remember we went into we
started a code obviously, and we.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Were meant to go to Hoy, meant to go to Daniki,
and we stopped in Huy.

Speaker 4 (12:54):
And I remember getting off the trucks and I'm thinking,
this is okay, And all I can remember you saying was, look,
day one is going to test you. You're going to
know whether you want to continue after day one. It's
going to hit you hard. And so I think you
like to put this fear element into everybody, because every
day I felt like you were saying, this is gonna
be the toughest day you've experienced, and then we get
to the next day You're like, this is going to

(13:15):
be a tough day to day.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Well, that's actually true in the sense that if we
didn't do the hill on day one, which does normally
just you know, it rocks a few people, and then
then second day is a little bit longer again, and
then those two middle days are normally the longest, and
so every day for the first four days, every day
is harder than the day before it at some level.
But you've also walked into it a bit. And then

(13:39):
once you get past sort of a foggy Brigade Hill,
that's actually a long day from Brigade Hill all the
way to Brown River because you've done all the emotionally
cool stuff, you know, your Isha Rabas, your Brigade hills,
and now you've just got this long hike to get
to the next point. And that gets a few people
as well, and then after that it's like, oh, it's
almost over. So I don't think I'm saying that just

(14:01):
to put fear and people. That's legitimately what people experience. Obviously,
you're fitter than the average person, and I mean average person.
I always say to people, now I'm fit for my age,
you're still fit for any age, So you're good. But
she might not have found it as physically taxing. I
don't know, No, I did.

Speaker 4 (14:19):
Yeah, So I looked at that when I got back,
so I wanted to go over to get the mility
history as well as well as test myself physically. It's
been twenty six years since we're in the military, or
I was in the military. It's been twenty six years
since I've humped with a twenty kilo grand pack and
I chose to pack, and if I do it again,

(14:40):
I won't be I won't be doing that because that
was a little bit of ego coming out, and I
wanted to test myself and I wanted to find out,
you know, do you still have the stamina to pack
with a twenty kilogram pack but knowing the terrain now,
no way.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
But also it's good for the local community, high and borders.
But I get why you're first one you'd want to
carry a pack, a pretty heavy pack, and I'm doing
that for longevity, not for ego, and like Killer and
the boys always saying, oh Boss, your packs too heavy.
But my idea is that we see on the track.
On the second trip I did, there was a bloke
leading for another company who was in his late seventies

(15:20):
and good military historian, but he was two hours behind
his group and they never saw him all day. And
there was some blokes there. There's one black there from
six Hour Delta Company, which is Dan Karen VC's company,
and we were just having a chat at different points
and he was like, yeah, we don't see our guy
until nighttime and he looked like death and so we
don't know for me, like at fifty two. I don't
know when this ends for me. I feel like I've

(15:41):
got twenty years in me, but you don't.

Speaker 4 (15:43):
Know, you look good, mate.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
So my idea is to carry a heavy pack and
then when I finally get the stage where I'm may
be struggling to keep up, then I'll just drop the
weight in the pack, right, and that might give me
another five or ten years. So I'm not not even kidding.
That's kind of how my brain thinks. So that way,
I will kind of stay in the game a little
bit longer. But if I need to start playing up,
then I'll just adjust it.

Speaker 5 (16:01):
And that's what happened to me.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
So I had a dodge you need for the military,
and I was a little bit wary of that going
into it. I remember, mate, Richie said, go and buy
some knee braces. Do you think I did? Know?

Speaker 5 (16:12):
So I think I got to day four.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
And that was just up and down, up and down, relentless.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
Through all the templetons.

Speaker 4 (16:23):
Yeah, it was the down that got me, and I
was I was in hurt like a big time.

Speaker 5 (16:28):
And I remember there was a part of the day where.

Speaker 4 (16:32):
You start to spread out a little bit, so especially
on the downs, I noticed that the group would spread
out because people would be going at different paces.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Or the young ones and good knees.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
The young one's of good knees up the front, and
I tried to be up the front. I think I
was between the front and sort of the middle most
of the time. And there was a part of me
was like, you don't need to be anywhere, You just
need to be where you want to be and where's right.
But I did notice on day four that the downs
were getting to me, and I got into camp that
night and I was like, I don't know if I
can make this.

Speaker 5 (17:02):
My knee was getting that bad.

Speaker 4 (17:04):
Luckily, there was a couple of people on the track
that had some knee braces and so kate off of
it to give me two knee braces. But yeah, the
hills and the knees for me were the limiting factor
that was going to.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
So you're a fit bloke and you've owned gyms and
stuff over the years, and so what was your training
like for this, and what would you do differently now
knowing what you.

Speaker 4 (17:28):
Know training wise. I've always kept fit since the military,
so I knew that that was always going to be
a box tick for me. I'd done the Malula bar
Trothlon about probably five weeks before, so I'd done a
better seven week training program leading up to that, which
is a bit more cardio based. I did the Mount

(17:50):
Couther tracks with you a couple of times. That was good,
just to get the weight back on my shoulders, and
obviously trying to do step ups, which I think everyone's
probably tried to do as many step as they can
knowing that they're going to hit terrain that's going to
require that. But when you're a short guy like me
five to six, there is no step up big enough

(18:10):
to do. Because I remember there were times on that
track then when my hip joint was out of proportion
to my body and I had to turn around and
slide down my backside because I wasn't going to be
able to step down.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
It just was too too without putting to a jumped down.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
Almost there were sometimes we were actually I did have
to jump down. But so my training was pretty consistent
all the way up.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
I always would you add anything in because I know
your feet, But would you add anything in differently? Because
I think like protecting these I always say to people
walking uphills backwards is really good I like step ups
on the big boxes in the gym here, but then
step down the other side, because that's we don't think
about the step down. We think about the step up.

Speaker 4 (18:52):
I think you're right. And that hill that we did
around here.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
Duncan Field stre for those in Bridge look up duncan Field.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
Yeah, I think we were doing ten or eleven them,
and every third one you turn around, you walk backwards.
So yeah, that was good. I'd probably do a lot
more of them.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
So I do a little bit of that. But if
you've got knee issues, you definitely should do more of
that stuff, and just.

Speaker 5 (19:13):
To protect them and take a knee brace or two.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Do what Richie said in the first place. If all
else fails, do what Richie says.

Speaker 5 (19:21):
That's been my mind on my life.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Mate. I've got a question which I've never really put
to anyone, or an observation, mainly because I don't always
take military people, particularly military people I know. But one
thing I noticed on this trip, because it was yourself
and Bruno, who I'd serve both with one thing we
take for granted, the military's mateship. But I noticed on
this trip a lot of them are talking about they've

(19:44):
never experienced anything like this where you know, twenty other
people come together and become mates and that's just guys
and girls and music mates as a general term. And
they were all talking about what we would term as matship,
and I guess I think we in the military take
that for granted.

Speaker 5 (19:59):
A little bit.

Speaker 4 (20:00):
However, I noticed that from the airport in Brisbane, everyone
got on extremely well and there was a connection straight away.
And I'd imagine you get this with a lot of
your groups, mate because it comes from you. I think
I think a lot of that mateship comes from your leadership.
But I noticed that from day one, and it just
got stronger and stronger every single day of that journey.

(20:23):
And if you asked, I'd say every single other person
on that track, I believe they would say the same thing,
that our group were connected. We would talk to everyone everyone,
everyone would help out each other. It was a real
tightknck group that you.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
Normally get little not normally, but often you're seeing groups
of little pockets of people and like, if me and
two mates go, we'll just stay together. But I tend
to because maybe because of melty background, kind of if
that happens and I didn't have to do it. In
our group. I'll often say to people, I want you
to partner up with someone different today, someone you haven't
spoken to. If you're a fast, partnered with someone's slow,
advice versa, and just spend some time learning about someone different.

(21:01):
And often I didn't have to do that this group
because everyone was doing it. But you're right, A lot
of that comes down to leadership. And this is not
to blow wind up my backside, but as you know,
I had a couple of young trek leaders out there
with me, who I say young as in young in
experience wise, and I'm training them up and I wouldn't
normally let them have a group that size on their own,
because they go, that was actually easy to run a
group of size. I go, it's actually not. But if

(21:23):
you do it properly, and we've got more of these
years of military experience and yeah, and plus ninety plus trips,
so sometimes people can look at it and go, that
was easy. But you, I know, you Breno, were people
that because you're coming from military background, you knew what
was happening in the background a lot more than say
the civilians do, yes, and so that was interesting to
know that I wouldn't put a big group like that
in front of just anyone. But I'm very confident in

(21:45):
Killer and the boys and myself and how we lead.
And my goal of leadership is not to have the
experience for you. So I don't answer everyone's questions like
there are people out there that have never never camp before.
Not so much that Kate was on this trip and
admitted that a few days in and what an extreme
first camping experience, you know, So they don't know how
to pack a sleeping bag away to get this stuff

(22:05):
out of their ten or. And so I don't solve
that problem for them in the first couple of days.
Just work it out yourself, and then eventually I'll give
them a tip that's just going to save me a
bit of time. And then why don't you tell me
that three days ago? But you're kind of hoping they'll
pick it up. But you guys just rolled straight back
into made you were good.

Speaker 4 (22:20):
Yeah, And that's the thing, like I said, when we
drop on the trucks to start with, I felt like
I was immersed back in the military. And then the
night before we had our packs and I'm thinking, all right,
take me back to the military. How what do I
need first? What do I need in the start of
the day, What do I need during the day, What
do I need at the end of the day. And
so I was strategizing where I need to place things
and divvy up what I need specifically for certain times

(22:42):
that day.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, that's so good because people always say to me, like,
you know, hashold to pack my pack, and I'd say
the same thing. Things you do not need to at
the end of the day at the bottom of your
pack and slowly work your way up. So everything that
I'm going to need during the day, I just unclip
my pack and I'm sitting right there at the top.
But I see people pulling everything out trying to find something.
It's any somewhere, and you mate, seriously, But that truck
rides an interesting one because you can hire a small

(23:05):
all the planes and fly directly into Kakoda and it's
not that big a price difference, if I'm really honest.
But I like the truck ride because for me, the
military history is so important that I'm trying to make
people feel that right from the beginning and so and
not a lot of people would pick that up, but
anyone in the military as soon as I get in
the back of them, go yep, been here.

Speaker 5 (23:22):
Before, Get on the trucks, get off the truck.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yeah. So it's just integrating that into the experience as well.
So I'm trying to have that military experience from the
start all the way through. It's done well and that's
really important to me. Highlights of the trip. So I'd
love to know highlights, Like if there were two or
three things that just stood out more than anything else
to you that you think in five years someone I'm
still going to remember those things? What would they be?

(23:45):
How many? There's a lot mate, So.

Speaker 4 (23:51):
Not knowing a lot of the history. As I said before,
there was Israva. Now that was a location for me
that I was really interested in because from memory, that
was where the first main battle occurred.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yes, we had a battle that Cocoda, but that was
the first big battle. That's where we built a defensive
position and the second fourteenth and second sixteenth were coming
into reinforces. We didn't know when they were coming, but
we knew they were here and we were going into
battle with them. They believe around six thousand. Japanese numbers
are unconfirmed, but big numbers, and so there. That was
our first proper battle where after the first day gunpits

(24:26):
are talking about bodies of the Japanese as many as
one hundred bodies outside a gunpit, and they just kept
coming out. They were just exhausting us with manpower.

Speaker 4 (24:33):
So that was the place that I was really looking
forward to because you had seen I had seen, as
I'm sure most other people. That's quite an iconic place
of the four we got the four Pillars there, and
for me, I was like, I want to be there.
I want to see that now the arches at Kakoda
and I was cornered, they stand alone as iconic places, right,

(24:57):
But that those four pillars and being there looking down
over those ranges and reading the history that for me,
he was probably the main highlight.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
It's such a beautiful spot. It's hard to imagine the
ferocity of battle happening there between two countries that the
locals didn't know at the time technically.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
So that if I look back, there's going to be
so many memories, mate, it really is, and they stand out.
So walking up that waterfall that sticks out massively in
my mind because it was challenging and I was only
thinking about this yesterday on the track. There's not a

(25:38):
lot of time you can literally stop and take a
lot in because you've got someone at your backside. That
was a location that I wish I had a stopped
more frequently or was able to and really immerse myself
in that environment and that moment and take it all in.
But I loved it, like there were opportunities to do that.
I just wish I was able to do it for longer.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
I should say that because I go there a lot,
I do stop up there a lot. I don't care
who's behind me, and I'll fill my hat with water.
Water is just beautiful coming down that order. For and
people listening who haven't been on Cocadie, I don't encourage
you to stop as often as you want to and
take your photos, have a look around, grab some fresh
water out of a stream, like take those little moments
because every it changes every day, as you know, and

(26:21):
every little moment is one you never really get back.

Speaker 4 (26:23):
Yeah. And when I said earlier, I won't take a
pack next time, and I'll do this again, there's no
doubt about it. I won't take a pack because I
found the pack. My eyes were constantly in front of
my feet and so you know, you were concerned about
the weight on your back and walking up and through that.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
And there's balance, there's balancing issues through there, and then
you've got this big extra pack weight and.

Speaker 4 (26:44):
That's what's going to get to is that was the
other thing that was playing in my mind is if
you turn around balance, you could be down the bottom
of this. So that was a magical place, absolutely magical.
I I spiritually got really in tuned with a fogy.
I remember walking into a phot gear and I could

(27:07):
hear the group of women singing, and that just penetrated me,
like it was huge. And I remember walking through, walking
towards the women singing, and all of a sudden it
opens up to this incredibly large black soil field and

(27:27):
it's football fields. And as I'm walking towards the women,
we were sort of walking around the outside of where
they were, and I found myself stopping every couple of steps,
turning back around and just watching and listening.

Speaker 5 (27:45):
And then I take a few more steps and I'm.

Speaker 4 (27:46):
Like, I don't want to get to camp just yet.
I want to stay here and listen to this. And
it was the song was I think it was Coming
Home or welcome Home.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
I know the song you mean. I can't remember the name,
but I know the song you mean. It's amazing.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
And so they just kept singing and I slowly walked
all the way down that black field until we got
to our camp site. But that was one special spot
for me, and I remember we woke up the next
morning pitch dark, and they were supposed to, believe come
and sing for us the night before dinner, but something happened.

(28:22):
So we woke up the next day pitch dark, we
had breakfast and they started walking towards us and there
was a massive group there singing, and they sang about
three songs, and again it just it hit me bad,
not bad, it hit me really good.

Speaker 5 (28:36):
And so that's a special place for me.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
So that would have preloaded you for then Mission Reachi
and Brigade Hill.

Speaker 5 (28:42):
Actually, which was not good because the day before.

Speaker 4 (28:46):
Was when I had the knee issues, and then that
next day, the first two hours I think was downhill
and that destroyed me. So that next day we woke
up listen to the beautiful songs, and I was in
the most amazing place mentally and physically, I suppose, and
until I started walking and then two hours wow that

(29:10):
that that that day was the day. I think it
was day five. That was the day that kicked me
in the head. And I got to a point where,
as I said, we started to stretch out a little bit,
and you can get in your own head a little bit. Now.
I know I'm physically strong, and I know I'm mentally strong,
but there was a point in that day where I

(29:33):
didn't know when the next rest stop was coming, and
we were stretched out and the F words started coming
out a few times.

Speaker 5 (29:41):
And it was also a little.

Speaker 4 (29:42):
Bit of a motivational push for me because I was like,
you can do this. You know you can do it. Yes,
your knees are destroyed at the moment, but you can
do this. And there a few more F bombs coming out,
and literally two minutes after that moment you stop. We stopped.

Speaker 5 (29:58):
I'm like, thank God for that.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
So it was there ever a moment where you truly
believed I can't keep doing it. So we get to
that because you are mentally strong. You are physically strong,
but when you're talking about knee pain, it is what
it is. Was there ever a point where you thought,
if there's another two hours of this, I don't know
if I can do that. That was that point.

Speaker 4 (30:16):
That was the point because I was in my head
so the night before you had to make a call
on Blinda, and knowing how my knees had reacted that day,
I'm like, you do not want to get chopped out
of you now. And I kept having the conversation with myself.
I'm like, you can crawl out of here, but you're
not getting chop it out. And so there was a
moment on that section where I said, I was by

(30:39):
myself and I'm thinking, oh my god, this could be you.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
You could be the next one and start doing all
the Dave Gorgan speeches. You don't know me so.

Speaker 4 (30:48):
But thankfully, like I said, I got another knee brace
off Kate. And there were some guys on the trip
that had some good chemist there.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
We had physios and all sorts of people.

Speaker 5 (31:00):
Has some good chemist potions and got me through.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
That was what got me through, taught me through that
emotion of because I always loved this piece and I
didn't get to do it with you guys, but I
met you there that final hill and then the final
hill going from Kakota back to ours is a tough hill.
But then when you come around the corner and you
see those arches and you hear those boys singing. And
I've done this ninety one times, and even just talking
about now, I still get goosebumps thinking about that moment

(31:27):
of the boys like taught me through that sort of
feeling with the group.

Speaker 4 (31:31):
Okay, So, as I said before, I tried to stay
between the front and the middle of the pack. Probably
of an ego there too, which I'm working on.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
So the pack was twenty ken an ego was yeah.

Speaker 5 (31:42):
And I'm five foot six, no half your size.

Speaker 4 (31:46):
So you take twice thy steps, little step falling down ledges.
So the last night, again we were we the last night?

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Where was that last night you stayed a good water?

Speaker 4 (31:57):
Okay? I woke up at about two o'clock in the morning,
everyone was asleep, and the moonlight was I can't explain it.
It was just sensation. I'm going to get my phone
out and laying in my bed. Opeh's undoing the tent
zip and just taking a few shots. It was just
that moment, that magical moment where you felt like you

(32:18):
were just all alone. And so the next morning I
woke up and I made a point that next day
that I'm going to go last, because I didn't want
to go out of there because it gets to a
point and I'm sure you can attest to this, Glenn.
You've done ninety one.

Speaker 5 (32:34):
Day one starts and you.

Speaker 4 (32:36):
Think Jesus is going to be a big trip, like
we've got seven eight more days to go, and all
of a sudden you're at the end of it. And
I got to that last night. I woke up the
next morning and said to myself, you're walking last to day.
You're going to take in every aspect of this final stretch.
You're going to look down at all the people in
front of you and you're going to feel them and

(32:59):
experience their walk as well as yours, and you're going
to take in all the terrain. So this was my
moment to really take it all in, and I did.
I walked with Caine at the back, and I walked
with another guy called Adam, and we had a great chat.
And as you said earlier, it's good to mix you
walk up with different people, and we had spoken throughout

(33:21):
the trip when we got into camp a lot, but
it was good to walk and talk now.

Speaker 5 (33:25):
So that last day for me again I didn't want
to leave.

Speaker 4 (33:30):
I remember Cain and I would stop a lot and
we did little videos and we took lots of pictures.
So that was the one day that I was able
to do it. But yeah, we ended up stopping quite
a few times. Just let everyone go and just take
as much in as we can. And you're right. You
come up with that last little stretch and you know
you're coming towards the end, and then you start to

(33:50):
hear the boys singing and it just pierces your heart
and you're so thankful for having the opportunity to do
what we just did. You're thankful for the fuzzy wuzzies
from the past, and you're extremely Oh I am, I'm
extremely thankful for the porters and the P and G people.

(34:11):
And so again you've got another heartstring moment walking up
and here they are singing to you, and you know
they sing in such a beautiful, soulful way that's just genuine.
And I remember walking through, they're going, I don't want
to walk through yet, I just want to stand right

(34:31):
here and take it all in.

Speaker 5 (34:33):
So, you know, and in front of me.

Speaker 4 (34:36):
I had I have had Belinda's son Cam and so
I could hear him getting quite excited to see and
Belinda started walking down and so it was experiencing their
experience as well. And then you just appeared for three
days because you had enough. So we saw you at

(34:58):
the top and Mate, that was for me, that was
emotional as well, you know, because I was like, I
can't wait this, you know, I can't wait to give
you a hug at the end, and then taking pictures
and yeah, it was.

Speaker 5 (35:10):
It was special.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
And I think a lot of people underestimate the emotional
and spiritual side of the journey because we all think
about the physical, but the military history, then the emotional journey.
And if you're not taking people on that full journey,
it's a storytelling trek. It's not eight days or ten
days or twelve days some people do of just checking
through the jungle. You're taking people and living through the story.

(35:33):
That's what I try and do. That's why I typically
like to go from Cocoda back because that is the
way the story best unfolds, and I like to put
it on the ground as it happens and where it happens.
And I don't I think I found a good knack
of not overdoing it. But also making sure I do
it enough and stopping at all the relevant points and
telling those stories. And when I'm training trek leaders, and
so I had hiding out with me on the second trip,

(35:54):
and I've said that to her a lot of the time.
When you want to stop and give people a break,
that's your perfect opportunity to tell some stories, because stories
of what help us connect to the past and what happened,
and your capacity to tell a good story lets people
feel and otherwise I may as well just read the book.
Read the book and go for a walk, you know,
and or take the book with you and read right
now I'm here. That's not the same when it's done properly.

(36:14):
And as for the singing, for those people listening to
this show, when you listening to the exit on this podcast,
that's actually our boys singing the national anthem on Brigade Hill,
And it was actually filmed at the time by Channel seven,
which is why it sounds so clear. But they're beautiful.

Speaker 4 (36:29):
And that was a special moment in itself as well,
because that was the morning before you had to fly out,
and I not now I then understood why you wanted
to do that, because it's such an important part of
who you are and this whole business.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
I really want to get to get into that point
selfishly so that I could do that brief and also
because I wanted her to experience that with cam.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
Yeah, and that's a gutty woman right there.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
People listening. She fell over going up that waterfall. She's
fifty nine. She's an aviation Medican nurse, the same as
I am, ex military walking with her son. She's crossed
the whole track with me once before, ten years ago,
and she did her miniscus. The physio worked that out,
but it turned out she actually had three or four
tears in the miniscus and a few other things going on,
And I made her encouraged her to walk from a

(37:17):
foggy up to Brigade Hill because otherwise I wouldn't have
flown out. I would have stayed with the group because
I definitely wanted to do Brigade Hill, but also I
wanted to get her there because I think if she
hadn't got there, it would have been a huge disappointment
for her. But I know her really well and it
would have been a huge disappointment for her. Leaving was
a disappointment for her, and wanted to do it with Cam.
I think for Cam it was a good thing. It

(37:38):
was almost a coming of age. We got this first
half with Mum and the second half bom I'm out
on my own now and as a young man. I
think that was pretty powerful for him too.

Speaker 4 (37:46):
Yeah, I agree. And the importance of Brigade Hill and
Mission Hill. I remember when we're sitting on Mission Hill
and we're all looking out and you're reading, and then
you're playing that song.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
By the Hamish Wife.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
Yeah, and like you do it well, mate, You really
know how we had to hit those high points in
everyone's emotional state and to listen to those stories at
those two locations and a Brigade Hill, to have three
of our representatives come up and read poems and speak.
And then also what I found extremely touching was after

(38:24):
both national anthems were played, we turned around and we
filed through our porters who were standing behind us, and
we either shook or hugged them. And that was a
real embrace.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
And I always say to people when I said it
on this trip, I'm sure because I say it all
the time, that this at the end of our service,
it's about that walkthrough and Hugen it's about showing our
acknowledgement of the two countries. What both of our forefathers did,
you know, two three generations ago. And for the P
and G people and particularly for the porters, they're very
proud of their history and it's their one true international

(38:57):
history and the one time they had to stand up
on an international stage, they did it bloody well. You know,
people underestimate that country time and time again. But when
you look at what they've actually achieved and what they
did and in that moment under pressure, if you're ever
going to judge people, judge them on that moment. It's
pretty impressive international history.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
Yeah, and I suppose there were moments throughout that track
that all that kind of came through in the generations
that followed the Fuzzy wuzzy Yeah. I remember we went
to there must have been those twenty crossings that we
had to do, and the first one we got stuck
behind two groups and we got to the river crossing

(39:38):
and there was I think the first group trying to
go through, so they had some of their porters already
going through and they were restructuring the vines that went
across all the ropes that were across to make it
safe for us. And I noticed from our group and
all the other groups that arrived, all their porters were

(39:59):
communicating across the river, and they all knew what was
going on. Sometimes they didn't need to communicate, and all
of a sudden, most of our porters went straight to
the other group's porters and they're in the water and
they're helping every other group through. And to me, watching that,
like we watched that for a good forty five minutes,
I reckon and that really sunk in what they do

(40:21):
and what they did in the past, and how that's
been handed down I think in their DNA.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
I actually watched. I've seen this numerous times where we've
hit Brown River and there's no trees falling over, no logs,
and it has a really strong current. And I've watched
the boys literally build something out of nothing, but no
one seems to be saying much. They just go bang.
But everyone knows their roles. There doesn't seem to be
anyone in charge. There's no ego around who they just get.
They just get about their business. And you're right, other

(40:46):
porters will come through and they'll just jump into whereas
we can become very territorial like that, that's not my business,
that's someone else's not. They're just totally different humans and.

Speaker 5 (40:55):
That was beautiful to see. I love that it was.

Speaker 4 (40:58):
There's so many put a smile in your face moments
that they provided you with, and that was one of them.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
For sure. Is there anything that you took on the
track because you carried all your own gear that you
didn't need or use, or is there anything you wish
you'd taken if you went again.

Speaker 4 (41:12):
I think I took exactly what I needed to and
I was really unsure, probably two three days out, have
I taken too much? So I got to the hotel
that night and there was probably just one or two
items that I took out of the pack. So that
was like I didn't need an extra shirt, I didn't
need an extra pair of shorts. So what I did
was I had two separate days of tracking clothes and

(41:35):
when I got into camp, you'd have a shower, I'd
take those clothes off, i'd wash them, and I put
on the next day's clothes. They were already dry, clean,
ready to go, and I rotated that. But no, I didn't.
I think I took exactly what I.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Needed to how many pairs of socks people always every day?

Speaker 4 (41:54):
Yeah, I had to, yeah, and I gave Actually I
think I only used maybe three of them because there
was a few days there that well, a lot of
days there we didn't have much rain or we didn't
we weren't wet, and so I remember every night I'd
be able to wash them, hang them up, dry them,
and we're the next day. So there was like four

(42:15):
brand new pairs that I ended up giving away to
my poor at the end of the track.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Actually, on the second trip, we got smashed with rain
one day and it was cold and it was teking.
We'll going back the other way, So it was treking
from templeans or from the base of Bellomy all the
way through to a Lola and it was actually cold
and we were just getting hammered with his rain. And
I think that's a good experience too, But that's blessed,
you don't know. Yeah, we had a pretty good round.

Speaker 5 (42:37):
We had really good So anything.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
That surprised you at all about the country about you,
it's your first pang experience. Because I'm very I've got
a massive love for that country, not just because I
just love the country and the people, and so, yeah,
there was anything that surprised you about the country, positive
or negative? Good question.

Speaker 4 (43:01):
Maybe it did surprise me how beautiful it was. I
remember we walked the second day up to.

Speaker 5 (43:10):
What was the second day?

Speaker 2 (43:11):
The second day we went to Alola.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
Alola, So we're supposed to Daniky, was it?

Speaker 2 (43:17):
Yeah, Janikas meant to stay on the first So we got.

Speaker 4 (43:20):
To Daniki on the morning of the second day because
that was that hill was supposed to walk up on
day one, and so trying to explain to the listeners
how beautiful it is. And it's really hard to explain
this until you're there, but that was the thing that
I took away. I remember standing there looking down. It
was still the morning, you had the sun coming up,
and it was just spitting sunray down onto that valley

(43:43):
where there was Cloud Cup already, and I'm looking at
and going, how was there a war here?

Speaker 2 (43:51):
And let alone thirty thousand people over seven month period
blew and over it.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
And then you get up to Brigade Hill and Mission
Hill and you look down onto the villages and looking
out to the rangers, and again it just kept hitting
me how remarkably beautiful this country is. So the country
side is beautiful. The people were just beautiful, and so
they were probably a few things.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
What about food, So let's talk about food. I'd imagine
and I don't know, but you're not some of that.
These a lot of process foods because you live a
pretty sort of healthy lifestyle. But when we're on the
code and the way I do it, we bring all
our food packs over. Some companies have the boys cook
for you and stuff. I've just experienced it. Our stomachs
aren't as strong as we think they are. The boys,
the hygiene and stuff, you know, rusty knives or whatever.

(44:38):
It just you know, little things can make us sick.
So as a safety mechanism, my daughter Brooklyn puts together
whole food packs, which is a lot of processed foods.
But it's just because I think it's the safest. It's
the only reason I do it that way. But how
did you did you need to bring extra food? Were
you're getting enough food in for you because your metabolism
will be quite high.

Speaker 4 (44:54):
Yeah, And there was one point there were like how
many colors think we're burning each day? I reckon it
was five thousand and six easy.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
Yeah, I don't know, because I don't have a calorie counter,
but I have step counters, and when you get into
those big days, you're thirty thousand plus steps and they're
not just walking on the flat road steps, they're upping
down some yarmas.

Speaker 4 (45:11):
So the only thingland that I took was and this
wasn't initially for me, but I took a one kilogram
bag of snakes and that was the handout, which I
did hand majority of them out to the villagers.

Speaker 5 (45:25):
But I also took three packs of It was.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Like a.

Speaker 4 (45:30):
It was like a trek in mix energy mix.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Like a trail mix or trail mix.

Speaker 4 (45:35):
Yeah, So I took three packs of them, and that
actually helped me when I got further along in sort
of like day four, five and six, where your energy
was just expended and I reached for those and I
were just down on because I remember we got to
and again I'm not too sure where this is, but

(45:55):
you've just gone through the twenty water crossings and I
remember the night before I think you.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Got heading up to the base of him in a ridge.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
Yeah, but there's that there's that oh Valet Creek. Yeah,
is that like where they say, hey, this is a
this could be a bit of a test for you
you can.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
Yeah, so that's imm and a Ridge. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (46:13):
So the night before I'm like, you're telling us, like,
there's this challenge and you get to the end of
your crossings and some guy did it in I don't know,
ten minutes, eighteen something.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yeah, that's and I'm happy to say this. I'm not
talking out school, but that was Keith Fanell, who's for
those that don't know Keith. Keith was the youngest ever
astraying to make it into the SAS at twenty years
of age. He'd been in the Army nine months reserves
and he's a good made of mine and to this
day he is a freak. And he did it. I
can't remember exactly the time, but his son, who's on

(46:45):
a running scholarship in America at the time and he's sixteen.
His son beat him and they just and it was
the first time I've seen the porters beaten, because normally
the porters will stay in front no matter how quick
you go. And they got to the sort of three
quarters the way up and the boys overtook him and
the porter said to me, my head guy back then
with Stafford and Otty who's still there now, and they
both said they're crazy. They just because what happens is

(47:07):
everyone goes out at pace and the boys will go
with you and then they know we drop off because
these two did not drop off. But that's keith An.
His son's names Rain, and they're just beasts, both of them.

Speaker 4 (47:16):
So I remember that before you were talking about this,
and my knees had played up, like there's no way
I'm going to sprint up this or even.

Speaker 5 (47:23):
Give it a challenge.

Speaker 4 (47:25):
And I remember getting towards the end of that last
crossing and the group.

Speaker 5 (47:30):
I caught up to the group and I.

Speaker 4 (47:32):
Think it was high. He was like, go at them.
I'm like, go what, and she goes, this is the challenge.
And as soon as someone puts that out to me
as like I'm locked and loaded.

Speaker 5 (47:41):
So here I am.

Speaker 4 (47:41):
I'm like what And there's all these other people standing around,
and like, okay, I'll go give me a challenge.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Half these blokes are twenty years younger than us.

Speaker 5 (47:49):
Easy, easy, I could be there father.

Speaker 4 (47:52):
And so she's gone go at him, and I'm like, okay,
I had no idea how long.

Speaker 5 (47:58):
This was going to be.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
And stitch you up.

Speaker 4 (48:01):
I've done this in the military twenty six years a game,
milnd't you. So I've just taken off and there's like
a group behind me, and thirty six minutes later, I
get to the top and I am I'm sped, and
there's obviously people have already arrived before you, and they're
clapping it. We clapped every single person that came up.
And I remember sitting up onto the hill there and

(48:24):
you talk about what extra food I took. I was
so thankful I took that extra food because I remember
sitting there, shirt off, ringing it out like it was
a towel I just used. And I just put my
hands straight in my pack and reached for this energy
pack and just down it like I needed so much fuel.
And for people listening, I don't know if I can

(48:46):
give this the explanation it needs. But you sweat, and
when I say you sweat on that particular stretch of
the track, I remember getting at the top and I
took my shirt off, like I said, and I was
ringing it out and it was like it was like
a tap. It just didn't stop, and I use it
again to what my face, my back, everything, I'd ring
it out and it was like a tap again, and

(49:07):
for about a good thirty minutes it felt like this
massive ledge across my back was like a waterfall of
sweat just going all the way down and you couldn't
stop it. And so when I say, guys, who's going
to do this? You sweat. You sweat within five minutes
of waking up and putting your pack on, and you
won't stop sweating until you put that pack down at

(49:29):
the end of the day. And that's okay though as well.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
You'll either be wet. You'll always be wet on cocada
and allowed to be from sweat or rain, but either
way you're going to be wet, so you've got to
get comfortable with that. I always take four bag just
small bags of lollies with me, and then i'd take
two big ones which the group portals normally carry for
different points where we get stuck, and I'll handed out
either to the boys themselves or to the trek as
if they need them. Yeah, yeah, but you're just throwing
that little bit extra something. And only other thing I

(49:53):
would advise people to take because of how much you
sweat is salt tablets they come in handy to or
something that's replenishing of some sort of So a few
people were struggling with cramps. There's a couple in particular
that struggle with crams. Graham been one of them. But
the electrolytes weren't really getting the job done for him,
and so I think salt tablets would have been a
better option. So and even for that trip, I sweard

(50:15):
more on that trip than I've ever said. It was
particularly human. So I went and bought, or actually I
got Brooklyn to send over with the second group a
bottle of salt tablets for me. But then the next
trip was colder, so who knows.

Speaker 5 (50:25):
Now I noticed that myself.

Speaker 4 (50:27):
There was I think that day five where I was
struggling and I was in the Hurtlucker. That's where my
energy level was really dropped, and I just couldn't take
in enough water. It was just not enough of the lights,
not enough water, nothing was just sticking.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
So you're you've just owned Kokoda, and I want to
bring this up because you mentioned it over there, and
tomorrow you're flying out to do a portion of El
Camino and so you're putting yourself through some stuff and
you said to me, now you wish you'd given it
more time between the two, not because you're not physically capable,
but to process the experiences because you've kind of piggybacked

(51:00):
them on each other, which sounds good in theory because
we're all busy, and now you probably are. You did
say you were wishing that you'd kind of give it
a more space.

Speaker 4 (51:07):
I do, Glenn, in hindsight, absolutely would have spaced them
out so that I can sit in that moment a
lot longer and really appreciate that activity. I've sort of
jumped from one to the next, and as soon as
I got back, I had to focus on the al
Camino trip and preparing for that. So I would have

(51:28):
liked to I'd say probably good two to three months
at least now in hindsight, Like.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
I said, not because of physical recovery.

Speaker 4 (51:34):
But no, because I want to make sure that I'm
taking in that experience after I've completed it. That's the
one thing that, yeah, sort of it hasn't been lost,
but it definitely requires me to go back and revisit.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
A lot of people say, Kakoda's life changing. What do
you think changes for you in your perspective of the
world going forward, and how do you hold onto that
because my experience is that people go, I'm going to
change this and this, I'm going to slow some things down.
I'm going to appreciate whatever time war, and then six
months later you're so back in the speed and the
depth of Western life that that's all gone, which is

(52:09):
I'm not going to lie great for me as a
business because people bring me go I need to do something.
But I wonder how we hold onto those those things.

Speaker 4 (52:16):
It's difficult, there's no doubt about it. I think majority
of people will come back, and you can attest to
this that you do come back with a sense of
I need to slow down, I need to enjoy more.
I need to experience the moment.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Because while you're on cocade, you can't be anywhere else.

Speaker 4 (52:33):
No, And so you said this a lot you you
find that country and that people to be like your
second home, and it's it's just where you feel comfortable.
I supposed as well. And there's a few other things
you said. I can't recall exactly, but when you said it,
I'm like, I understand that. I can. I get why

(52:55):
people want to come here. You detach yourself from the
way of life that we get caught up in so
slow down for me, and I said this on the
last night, when you've got to sort of stand up.
The word easy easy was the big one that came
through for me, which is, you know, easy, take it easy,
slow down. So I think we all try and do

(53:15):
that at some point in our life. But it's trying
to stay with that.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
We're probably I'm a little bit older than you, but
hitting good ages for that too, where we understand the
importance of time, the importance of experiences, and the importance
of downtime. You go back even ten years ago and
we're just pumping at a million miles now, I know
with some of your business ventures with Gibbo and likes
and you guys are just a humming all the time.
And then you hit an age you go like, I'm
happy to work hard still, but do I need to

(53:39):
work at that level. I don't know if you're going
through it, but I'm going through it, Like what's it
all for? Oh?

Speaker 4 (53:44):
Absolutely mate? Those questions come all the time, you know,
and then you get stuck between society tells me to
achieve and then my own brain tells me you don't
need to you need to experience and stay in that
moment and just be in service. That's something that I'm
sort of going through at the moment, is trying to
juggle up and have balance with all those things.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
I went through a couple of years ago, and people
on this show would know I talked about stopping Kokoda
two years to your Window, which was the end of
this year. The last twelve months has made me realize
I don't know that I can or want to, So instead,
I've started to stop other things I was doing. I
started to cut away the professional box as I was
training and starting to declutter some areas of my life.

(54:29):
I love everything I do, but you can't do everything.
And so and this experience of this Cocada in particular,
have a new guys there that I knew, having a
bigger group of who all got on so well, and
realizing again without blowing wind up my own backside, that
I'm very very good at this, but I also love it.
And how often do we do something in life that
we're good at and we love. Probably probably pretty rare
for a lot of people. So here I am doing

(54:50):
this thing and I'm talking about not doing it anymore,
but I'm still physically capable in ten years time, I reckon,
I look back and go, why did you stop?

Speaker 4 (54:57):
Yeah? I agree, because it does take As you said,
some people never reached that point. Some people never get
to a point in their life life where they go, well,
I love what I do and you've already achieved that.

Speaker 5 (55:10):
So many years ago.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
I was chatting to Millie and you know, just over
the last sort of a few weeks and since we
went to P and G and those people that haven't
I haven't spoken to on this show yet, but she's
born and bred p and but lives in Australia now,
and we were talking about something which might interest you.
We do youth development camps here bro Camp and Ala
at the Building Bit of Humane Project. We've decided we're

(55:32):
going to run one to Kakota, and so what I
want to do is get these and these aren't just
you know, kids with tough upbringings. Is everyone any kids
but kids. We will get sponsors for the kids that
can't afford it and so on, because everyone says it's
life changing. But you and I can afford to change
our lives if we want to. Some of these kids
I work with can't. So we're going to put together

(55:53):
a boys and girls program next year and it's going
to look like this. We're going to do everything we did,
but when we get to a Lola, we're going to
stay there for two extra nights and they're going to
spend one day going up to Abowari, that big hill
up to Abowari to go to school with the kids.
So that's where secondary school is. So the secondary school
kids walk up that hill every day and it takes
the local kids two hours. How long you reckon it's

(56:15):
going to take our kids. So I reckon, that's pretty
cool to go and have that just one day of
that experience gone, Holy hell, two hours up these hill
to get to school.

Speaker 5 (56:22):
That's life changing.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
And then the next day, so they'll swap around. We'll
split the group in half. One will go to school,
one will go out and work in the fields, so
you know them with all their gardens and which is
their farms, and then swap them around and each night
having a dinner with the locals. So so Millie's going
to go and spend two weeks living with the ladies
area because she's from the coastal mill Bay. So she
said it's different in the villages in the mountains. So

(56:44):
she's going to go and spend two weeks just to
ask the ladies and the kids what they need most,
because we're going to use it as a tour to
change the life of these young kids. But also we're
going to ask the kids, even if we've fund raised
their money for them, we're going to ask them to
try and raise one thousand dollars each, which is two
thousand keen. No, I don't care how they do it,
wash cars, whatever, but that's going to go back to
the village and not just in cash. What do you

(57:05):
need in the village. So that's going to be something
that we're going to focus on heavily for next year.
We're going to try to run those first ones and
I would love to get so then they'll do those todays,
sorry there's extra to days, and then they'll finish the track.
But I would love to get people like yourself who've
been on the track, who enjoyed the experience and who
would want to be a part of that as well,
because I'd love to have three or four at least

(57:25):
mentors coming over it. Just keep an eye of the
kids and help them out and be there. And I
reckon that's going to give us all a different experience. Again.

Speaker 4 (57:31):
Yeah, I can see that straightaway listening to your talk.
Just in great initiative and yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
So we started this idea in twenty nineteen called the
Alola Project for those who haven't been to Kakota. A
Loler is one of the villages along the track where
Killer and our boys either come from or are either
married in two or And the idea of a Loller
project was for women and children, so education, clothing, and
one of the big things for women was reusable sanitary items,

(57:59):
so as opposed to throwaway pads which they don't really
access anyway, and there's companies that make those that are
re washable and stuff. So we looked at all of
that and we started to build this thing, and then
COVID hit and we had people sending us products and
so on, and so now we just it's another version
of that. We're going to take these kids because I'm
into the win win onto this great experience, bring some

(58:19):
mentors onto the experience, so we're both getting value out
of it, and then the village gets something. But these
kids get to make their own bit of fundraising for that.
So then the village gets to do it's as well,
so that's the idea behind it. And obviously with merely
being from P and G, even though she lives in
Australia now, it's such a huge connection to her country
that I feel quite honored to have someone like that

(58:41):
in our business. So she'll be head of P and
G operations for this business as far as making sure
that we're doing all the culturally appropriate things, because I'm
really big on making sure we're culturally appropriate and we
don't always know that when I watch companies over there,
there's big things out in the villages because their Seventh
Day of Venice where they don't really like their girls

(59:01):
being in short shorts, and I see girls running around
in in bikinis and stuff, which is totally accepting in
our country, but I think you have to respect the
cultural and other country. And so yeah, we want to
make sure that even when we help BNNG, we do
it culturally sensitively so we're not overstepped. We're not trying
to westernize them. We're trying to help them be whatever
they need to be in the best version of themselves,

(59:23):
because they are westernizing slowly and I don't think it's
a good thing personally, So yeah, that's kind of the
future of our company. That's something the mind interest you.
But mate, to tie off this episode because we're an
hour deep already, it goes quick. So for those listening, David,
you talk really well and he was telling me that
he was nervous about this and bank we've just banged
an hour just like that. Just last bit of advice.

(59:44):
So you run into someone saying, I've been thinking about
doing COCDA. I heard you just did it. What would
your general advice or tip speed to someone thinking about it?

Speaker 4 (59:52):
First of all, just do it. I had this conversation
with someone today talking about the Kamuino up and he's like, yeah,
I just got to do it, and I said, you do, mate,
And so it's just making that first decision to say, yes,
let's let's make this happen regardless, because you just don't
know what's going to happen next, right, So do it.

(01:00:15):
Do it with you absolutely.

Speaker 5 (01:00:18):
No doubt about it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:19):
The checks on the table, no, because it was it
was an experience that, as you said, I could see
in other groups that weren't getting the same attention that
you gave our group.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
And there are much bigger companies in ours, we're a
tiny company. But I said to killer my head, globle
out there and you know, kill her now. But I said,
there's no one that does this better than us. And
I'm not saying that from a point of ego, but
how we care for our people, our locals, our trekkers,
the villages we go through a lot of people advertise
what they do. We do what we say, and I
think people have been with us can see and experience it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:52):
So yeah, just do it is the big one. Outside
of that, your training is important, There's no doubt about it.
You You cannot go there with any preconceived idea that
I go jim a couple days a week, I should
be fine. You've got to follow a program. And if
you know that you haven't been in the gym for
a while, if you know that maybe you're carrying a
couple extra kegs, then assess where you're at and really

(01:01:16):
either speak to you or work out, Okay, what's the
realistic time frame that I could get into shape forger coda?
Because your record stands for itself. You haven't had that
many evacuees, and you don't want that on the trip
you want to experience this in its entirety, so make
sure you're in shape.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
And it also makes you enjoy it a bit more.
At your feet trying to survive every day, and.

Speaker 4 (01:01:41):
I had to do that for a good well. I
think most of the time you're doing that right because
you want to make sure that your entry and exit
point of your feet are correct. So I was doing
that a lot. I'd also say if you're worried about
making it, your biggest point was you will make it.

(01:02:05):
You are making it, you can continue to make every day,
so you will get through it, and you've got a
lot of support there. A couple of little tips would
be the vassaline tip. Definitely put vaciline on your feet.
And the feet thing is probably the biggest one for
me because being the milchy, we know that that takes
you everywhere. So if your feet aren't right, you can't
go anywhere and you become a liability to the team.

(01:02:27):
So look after your feet. Make sure that you take
your boots off at every opportunity, so when you stop,
you know you're going to stop for probably fifteen to
twenty minutes. Even ten minutes with your boots off is enough.
To help them. And if you can do that two
three times during the day, when you get to the
end of the day, they're going to be a lot
better shape.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
You think at lunchtime, we've got an hour and put.

Speaker 4 (01:02:48):
Your flip flops on, or just walk around on the grass.
So that would be the big one. Take a little
towel with you so that if you do go through
any water crossings and the next time you stop, you
can ring your socks out and you can wipe your
feet down. Even tho you're going to put on a
little bit damp socks and wet shoes, at least you're
ahead of the game again.

Speaker 5 (01:03:07):
So that's the big one, because again.

Speaker 4 (01:03:09):
Your feet are everything. You've got to look after your feet.
I don't know, just going with a good attitude and
just enjoy it, you know, I really embrace it and
know that you know it's going to be challenging, but
I broke it down. So yes, I look at my
feet all the time. But when I was getting day four,

(01:03:29):
day five, a little bit at a point where it
was struggling for me. Okay, don't think about getting towards
end this day. Just think about the next break and
the next breaks aren't going to be like you know,
you might walk for an hour and there's always a break,
right or an hour and a half and then as
a break. So I'd always break it down to those
smaller milestones and go right, You've just got to get
to the next break, have a break, and then get

(01:03:52):
to the next break, and before you know it, four
or five breaks later at the end of the day
and you're like, where did that go? And like I said,
it's going to go quick, and you're going to get
to that last couple of days and think I don't
want this to end, and how have I got too
this thing?

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Find that weird? But it's true, it is, mate.

Speaker 4 (01:04:07):
It just goes by, and then you're back at the
hotel room the hotel and you're.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Like having beers and telling war stories. Mate. For me personal,
I just want to thank you for coming in. Obviously
I really appreciate people's time, but as a maid, I
want to thank you for coming on Corrida because a
lot of mates to talk about doing it and they
don't know what they're missing out, and then they get
to a certain age you go I made them too
old now and you go stop at you're the same
age as me or younger, but I understand we're all
different phases physically, mentally and emotionally. But it's something worth

(01:04:34):
getting yourself in shape for. And I really appreciate that
you that you came along with us.

Speaker 4 (01:04:38):
Thank you mate. Like I said, I've been trying to
do it for a while and.

Speaker 5 (01:04:41):
That boxes sticks down.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Awesome, Thanks mate, Just right, So let's see of us
Stupiffee racing God and visus.

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):
The bond between Ossie's and the people of Papu and
New Guinea was forged in war and it endures in peace.
We've felt that friendliness, that special connection and the comforting
presence of our porters and in every small community along
the Kakoda Track.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
Okay, guys, thanks for tuning in. It would be awesome
if you'd share this with anyone you know that's going
to the Kokoda Track, or that has been and has
a keen interest in the track. It's people and those
that choose to track it. The Pillars of Isheraba say, courage, endurance, makeship,
and sacrifice great words to live by, and this podcast
will offer makeshift and a place for those that live
and love the Kakoda Track. Experience until next episode. Live

(01:06:09):
a life that inspires you and those around you, and
remember to take time out to think about what's really important,
what's really important, what's really important?

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
Thanks for listening to the Kakoda Track Podcast. To get
in touch or stay up to date, go to Kakoda
Track Podcast on Facebook or email Glen at Adventure Professionals
dot com. Below you don't forget to subscribe and share
with your friends. Let's keep the spirit and the stories
of Kakoda and the P and G people alive.