Kokoda with Stephen Tuff

Another podcast and another chat with a good mate of mine who trekked Kokoda with me this year. 

Tuffy kept good notes on his training so I thought it would be good to share those with you. I get asked about training a lot. 

ADVENTURE PROFESSIONALS 

KOKODA TRACK

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apodjay Production. This podcast is proudly brought to you by
Adventure Professionals www dot Adventure Professionals dot com dot au.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
For me, Mission Ridge and Brigade Hill. The whole Kakoda
campaign more people need to know about it, or know
everyone knows someone who's trek Kakoda, but to actually understand
the stories of what these young guys did, It's harrowing
what they went through.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
They were staunched to the end against odds uncounted, and
they fell with their faces to.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
The Welcome to the Kakoda Track Podcast. Hosted by former
Soljet Glen Asa. This is the place to hear stories
from those who've trecked Kakoda and gained tips and knowledge
about what to expect on the track, or to relive
your own amazing experiences. The Kakoda Track Podcast keeping the

(01:01):
spirit of Kakoda alive.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Hey Ron Glen here, walking back to the Kokoda Track Podcast.
I'm fortunate enough to be chatting today to a good
mate of mine, so that seems a bit bit of
a theme lately. But as I kicked off this year,
I've a lot of mates who have always talked about
going to Kakoda and I know that's never got there.
And then recently I mentioned that I'm going to stop
doing Kokoda soon. I said that two years ago. That

(01:26):
has actually changed. I've decided I'm going to stick with
Kokoda and I'm going to cut back on my other trips,
so my Achilles and everspace camps, et cetera. But I
think A prompted a few of my mates who specifically
wanted to do it with me to come along. So
today I'm change. I made toughy Stephen tough now. We
met through boxing. We actually met at Kosta Zoo's gym
through a thing pre Facebook days, pre all social media,

(01:48):
and it was called the Zoo Crew and it was
at Costazu's gym. It was an online platform at the
back end of his websites in the old chat room days,
and we did some charity fundraising events. I think I
went to three out of the four events where every
year we'd come together and we'd all box and I
him with costures to himself and it's all done for charity.
My daughters used to come down, my fighters used to

(02:10):
come down. My second daughter Alyssa, who's the one who
climbed Mount Everest. She actually jumped in a box with
a young boy there, and so Tuffy and I've known
each other for quite a few years, and finally he's
made the decision to go to Kakoda, which I'm very
grateful for. Tough he's a journalist, self trained journalist in
the motocross industry, a bit of a motocross guru, so
to speak. He might not like the word guru, but

(02:31):
that's what it is in my mind, a blake that
doesn't ride. So we had a great trip and he
really did knuckle down on the training side of things.
So I'm looking forward to chatting to Toughy about the
training side because I get a lot of questions around training. Now.
We have a training program. If you go to Adventure
Professionals dot com dot au, it's a first thing will
pop up an eight week Kakoda program. Absolutely all you

(02:52):
need to get yourself ready, honestly, so you don't need
to go too fancy. This is something you can do
without a gym. And he got in and followed a
lot of that training program as best he could, and
so on. So we're going to chat to Toughy, you
talk about his experiences and we'll go and deep on
the training for you guys. Good mate, Touffy on the

(03:12):
hot my mate, Hell are you good? Good? Good? Make
you pumped?

Speaker 4 (03:18):
Oh yeah kind of. I was actually just reading through
some updates from the Tyson Furious fight. I was distracted.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Sorry, I just actually just watched a crack and fight.
But we'll talk. We'll talk about that later. But I
did mention everyone on the podcast that that's how we
know each other through boxing. Okay, so it's a good
time for those not interested. World Understood heavyweight title for
the first time in twenty five years. I thought Tyson
did just enough, but Usik come back strong and dropped him.

(03:47):
And to be honest, they should have stopped the fight
in the ninth round because they gave him an eight
count when he didn't actually hit the ground and it
was at all sorts when he came back Tyson. So yeah, okay, well.

Speaker 4 (03:57):
I've only seen the highlights from that ninth round and
I thought, oh, this is terrible. Yeah, I thought it
would have been stopped, but there you go.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, they definitely should have been. But in five, six
and seven, I thought he was going to stop USI.
So yeah, it was a crack and flight and definitely
deserves a rematch, and there's no other heavyweight that comes
near him. But anyway, we'll save everyone in the boxing
talk and we'll get onto the kokada kakada track. Mate,
I'm going to ask you a heap of questions as
you've listened to the potties from people that have gone recently.

(04:25):
But we are going to knuckle down on the training
side because I get a lot of questions about that,
and obviously you took a lot of notes around the
training side that you sent me as well. But we'll
start off with you wanted to do this for a
long time and then you said to me on the
track you got to a stage where I turned fifty,
it's never going to happen. I'm too old now, and
then you end up doing it, so us talk us

(04:46):
through that sort of thought pattern.

Speaker 4 (04:48):
Well, mate, I've actually got a bucket list on my
pear tree door with places I want to go and experience,
and Kakoda has been on there for a very long time.
And you're right, I'm turning fifty in a couple of
months and it's not because that I think, just because
of life. I went, you know what, I can't be

(05:08):
bothered anymore. It's a big commitment to be away from
a family. I had the guilt about that of doing
something solely for myself, the financial investment, and I just
it was just too hard. I'm like, no, I'm not
going to do it. And my wife said, what are
we doing for your fiftieth and I said, I don't know.
She said you should do Kakoda and I went, oh,
I don't really want to do it anymore. She goes, go, go,

(05:31):
why don't you want to go? And we talked through it.
She goes go, and then and I don't know, perhaps
it was from listening to your podcast, I thought, yeah,
I don't want to go anymore. And that's probably the
exact reason why I should do it. So I book
and I'm so grateful and thankful that I did it
and that I got that push from law.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah. Mate, we had a cracking trip. And we'll talk
a bit about this, because everyone wants to do Anzact,
but everyone wants to do the first ANZAC, which is
always choc a bloc full next years is already full.
And I think the second ANSAC, in my honest opinion,
is better because you don't realize it difference, but it
was so quiet out there. We didn't run into other groups, really,
not many, whereas on the first Ka Coda anzack you

(06:11):
run do run into a lot of groups. And now
they're still both great. But we started at Bamana War
Cemetery and then we went across the track from there,
and I just yea more people should consider that second
one as well, because it does tend to be quiet.
Now I've set it on a podcast, it'll get busy too,
but it'll get busy next year and never again. What
are you talking about? But mate, let's start there. Let's
start with I'll start with the broad. I'll come back

(06:34):
to Bamana because I know it's really important to you,
but I'll start with a broad. I know you know
a lot about you know what you're expecting because you
read up on it, You've you know, we've been mates
for a while. But you know what were you expecting?
And did it live up to your expectations? Did it
exceed them? Was it lower than where? Did it sort
of fit in?

Speaker 4 (06:52):
Mate? There's probably a lot of different layers to this.
For me, one is because of the history of the
place and the family connection, and then just that the
actual what it means to Australia and how I reckon that.
And I just thought, it's such an incredible thing that happened.
And I don't know, like, I'm a pretty patriotic guy

(07:15):
and I got a deep appreciation for Australian military, so
to me, it was really important for that side of it.
But then also the physical aspect, mate did it live
up to it? Yeah, I had a lot of concerns.
This might sound foolish to somebody. I was hyper focused
on my foot health because I thought if my feet

(07:36):
let me down, I'll have a horrible experience. So I
did a lot of research, asked some mates who are
in the military and former military what I should do,
and I listened to your podcast and then fitness. I thought, Okay,
I'm not as young as I used to be, and
this would sound crazy, but I don't walk anywhere. I'm
not a walker. I don't like it. I'd prefer to

(07:59):
run and get the job done. So in a lot
of ways, I thought, I'm going to teach myself how walk.

Speaker 5 (08:05):
I mean, I don't know how to walk, but to pack.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
Walk and just to settle into a walk for hours
on end. So I did spend a lot of time
on that because I thought, I don't want to have
a crap experience over there. I want to be fit
enough to immerse myself in everything that Kakoda's going to
throw at me. And so other than that, I didn't
have a lot of expectations. I just I just wanted
it to come at me.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
I was.

Speaker 4 (08:29):
I mean, I live on the doorstep of Phillip Island
in Victoria, so the climate's nothing like and we don't
have any hills or mountains close by, so I had
to get a bit creative with my training. And I
knew that the climber over there was probably going to

(08:49):
knock me around a bit, so I was aware of it.
I was prepared for it, and but I just loved
every part of it.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
And then you made reeks from Darwin, who's obviously he's
used to all that weather and train so or not
train definitely the weather.

Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yeah, well they're actually in our springs, so you can't
get further from anywhere else in Australia than other springs.
And yeah, Rick is one of my very best mates
and his son Angus that came with us. He spends
more most of his time in Adelaide at boarding school.
But yeah, Rick, Rick, I mean he's a tough cat.

(09:25):
He would go out and purposely walk in the heat
of the day and pack walk in it just to
get himself ready, so you know he was fine. But yeah,
we live in very different parts.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Of the country, Philip Island, isn't isn't that we're sort
of walking from cafe to cafe? Is that what you're doing?
Grabbing yourself a kid mate. Let's talk about the training then,
Like you you kept stats and all that sort of
stuff on your training because a lot of people do
ask questions. Talking a bit through. I know you initially

(09:54):
thought I'll just do my general fitness because you keep
pretty fit, and then you realize, oh, I probably need
to change itself a bit more specific.

Speaker 4 (10:01):
Well, yeah, I actually wrote a little program and I
headlined up Fit at fifty because I don't want.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
To be.

Speaker 4 (10:07):
A fat turn When I turned fifty, I thought I
want to be fit and I want to be getting
after it. So I wrote this program and it was
just three workouts a week, and then after I signed
up for Kakoda, I commenced that after two weeks, I
threw it in the bin because I just half listening
to the podcast I'm way off the mark here because
it mostly revolved around running, some body weight exercises and boxing,

(10:29):
because that's what I enjoyed. So then after I signed up,
you sent out the information pack on Kakoda and I
was like, right, I really need to knuckle down and
get specific the number of squats that you recommended and
step ups. I was like, well, I'm way off that.
So I concentrated on that and like I said, walking

(10:51):
and I thought, how what am I going to do?
So I initially started out just walking around the streets
with a backpack on. I've got a nine kilo dead ball.
I threw that in the back with a leader of
word and off I went. And that first walk, oh,
I reckon. I did about four k's And the next
day my shoulders were shot and I thought, I'm in
big trouble here.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Very different, isn't it?

Speaker 4 (11:13):
It is so different? And my achilles hurt and I
thought I've done nothing yet. I've got a long way
to go. And this was about thirteen weeks out, but
that was probably my hardest walk. After that, it was
nothing for me to walk down the end of our
street to the beach and there's a set of stairs.

(11:33):
There's one hundred and thirty six stairs, and I would
just do repeats. I'd grab a handful of rocks because
it's so mind numbing, I'd lose count of how many
reps I was doing. So I'd put rocks on the
hand railing and then move them every time I got
back to the top. And I just did those stairs
on repeat, on repeat, on repeat, And then during the
week I just worked on the squats, and to the
point where we've got a treadmill at home, I'd walk

(11:56):
on an incline of seven for one hundred meters to
get off, do a set of squats, get back on, walk,
do a set of squats, do some lunges, do some
step up. So I just kept like it was. It
was nothing fancy about what I did. It was just
I just kept doing the work.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
I think that's a key. Don't try and make it
fancy than it needs. But that's probably a message for
the exercise population in general. But I want to read
through the stats that you sent through to me that
in that thirteen weeks you did up one hundred and
eighteen point six kilometers with a ten kilo backpack. You
did fourteen point six klumeters of treadmill walking that you
just said, split up. You did one thousand, seven hundred

(12:32):
and ten squats one two hundred and forty step ups,
four hundred side step ups, five hundred and fifty lunges,
eleven one hundred and fifty two stairs down and up
with ten kilogrand backpack, six k's of outdoor running, twenty
five k's of treadmill running, three hundred and fifty push ups,
one hundred and seventy thirty five kilo dead lifts, and
sixty berpies.

Speaker 4 (12:54):
I kept a record of this because I just thought,
I wonder what sort of volume end up doing, and
then after the trick, will it have been enough? So
this was more to satisfyment. I'm curiosity, and I sent
it to you just to see what you thought.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Well, interestingly, it's the most common feedback I get is
love the podcast, but I wish you'd talk more about training.
And I think people are so excited about their Kakoda
experience that to talk about training is almost a bit boring,
you know, like because that was all the pre works.
But people, what I've got to remember, I guess is
that people who are listening to the show generally have

(13:30):
either done Cocoda, but most people who come onto the
show new training for Kakoda, So they're looking for tips
and they're looking for ideas, and I you know, companies
do supply generally as far as I know, fitness programs,
but I know some are pretty average, and you just
got to look around. And then there are people that
charge the fourtunes for programs too, so you've got to
find that balance in between. But keep it simple.

Speaker 4 (13:50):
But this is the thing, right, I didn't know what
I was heading into. After all of your podcasts that
I listened to and what I've watched on YouTube, you
still don't know. So it just and it was a
matter of trying to get enough work in and then
not overdoing it.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Would you change anything now that you do know Cokada
Is anything you would have added in?

Speaker 4 (14:13):
No, Nah, not at all. I was really happy with
with a state of fitness.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
The whole group was a pretty good fitness of all,
Like everyone maintained a pretty I mean, obviously Angus was
was a gun but young, young bloke and you know,
with eyes on going Special Forces one day and definitely
got the mindset. That young bloke. Very impressive kid, but
of course he's a bit different to the rest of
us oldies. But the place was good, like everyone seemed
to hold a really good pace. And yeah, so no

(14:44):
one lagged behind, which is unusual. It's always one or two.
That's kind of obviously whether you'd age injuries something that
just sort of back off a little bit. But I
thought we had a good pace.

Speaker 4 (14:53):
Well, yeah I did too, mate, And I think you know,
Holly and James aside probably a little bit younger than
us as well. I think the older you get, there's
always something like of crash motorbikes too many times. I've
got all sorts of stupid injuries. I know Rick does
as well, but I think we all managed our bodies
quite well. But from the fitness side of it, I

(15:15):
was pretty happy. I think the first three days, the
heat and humidity, I was really aware of what that
was doing to me. And like I remember one day
I drank about five leads and went to the toilet twice.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, so your body is absorbing it all. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
I think that was the second day and I thought,
I've really got to stay on top of this. But
the day five I felt a million bucks. And I
know we're up in a lot higher then and the
temperature was cooler, but I feel I really hit my
straps on day five and felt I could take on anything.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
I actually did say to Adam in the last podcast
and he did the ends up before you met. Little
David's a good maid of mine from the army, and
I was just saying, it's probably the most humid period,
that anti period that I've had in quite some years.
Like it was even I noticed it was more humid
than normal. So there was just his denseness in the
air of mist or rain. And then you whacked that

(16:10):
bit of heat on in the morning and you wake
up sweating that's ready to go. So oh.

Speaker 4 (16:16):
For the first three nights when I went to bed,
I was just laying on my mattress in my underwear,
just sweating, going, how am I going to cope with this?
And that was at nighttime, but you know, you get
used to it. But what made me really realized when
we got down to Offee Creek and I went just
for a bit of a poker and I think I

(16:37):
went to wash my face in the water or whatever,
and then killer just emerged out.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
Of the water.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
I didn't know he was there. He was fully some man.
I was going to see him. He just popped up
and gave me a bit of a fright. And then
I thought, if he's all in having a swim, it
must be hot.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
He's like a big hippo. And he just his head
come up out of the water.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
And he fully caught me by surprise. I had no
idea he was there, but yeah, like I thought, if
he didn't, it's hot.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
You didn't You didn't know you need to go to
the toilet until that point.

Speaker 4 (17:09):
Something like that.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
They talk us through highlights, like you know, yea three
or four things that you think will always stick in
your mind about the trip that will always pop.

Speaker 4 (17:19):
Up made Bamana. I know we got to go on
for the dawn service on ends that day and that
was really really special. But just being there full stop,
the first time you see all the gravestones is breathtaking
and it's such a I'm really trying to I'm struggling

(17:41):
to get the right words, like it's incredible to see it.
But for all the different reasons. It's it's peaceful, the
place is perfect, but it has this.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
It's got an aura about it hasn't it?

Speaker 4 (17:55):
It does make yeah, and I know that it sounds
you know, all the cliches and whatever, but it's something
that you have to experience to to really understand how
it makes you feel.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Some years ago I took Nova Radio station and Channel
seven in Brisbane across Kakada and one of the guys
then at the time, Kip Whiteman, who was on the
morning show. He's changed stations now, but he termed it
in a way that was really interesting to me because
I'm always honoring what happened there and I feel inspired
by those young men that are buried there on what
they put themselves through for the country. But he had

(18:28):
a different anger which really hit with me as well,
and he said, you almost feel ashamed as humans that
we fought wars at this level and killed this many people.
And that really hit home because there were young men
that didn't get to go home and you can tell
the story. But you found your grandfather's grave.

Speaker 4 (18:44):
There, Yeah, yeah, well I knew he was there. He
died of wound in Bogainville and was buried near the
site of that battle, and then he was moved to
a war cemetery there at the end of that conflict,
but then was moved again at the end of the

(19:04):
war through Bamana, so he had quite a journey and
a bit of family history. So this was my father's father.
My dad was only two and a half when he died,
so my grandmother remarried, and it was we always knew
about it, but didn't know too much of the family
history until oh, mate, I'd say, in the last sort

(19:28):
of twenty years or so. So yeah, it was it
was important for me to go and find me my guest.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
And did you find that emotional? Like it's a connection
with the man that you didn't actually know, of course,
but this is your family ess blood.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
Yeah mate, it's yeah, it caught me out a bit,
it did. Yeah, it was emotional, it is.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Did it? Did it add a bit to the importance
of the trip then, because once you've seen that and
then we go on the trip and then I know
he fought in a different area. But I was deployed
to Bogaonville for a conflict there in ninety eight and
the trains just as bloody tough as Kakoda may be
tougher in some areas, to be honest, So you know,
pretty much what we were walking through. He was fighting

(20:07):
through as well, for sure.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
And you just think these young blokes like he was
from Melbourne, these young young blokes are just they put
their haird up and they go, yep, I'll go and
do that, just just to do the right thing. And
it blows my mind. Like some young guys I work
with now, I just think there's this They're made from
different stuff.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
We had a different sort of belief, but we had
a different belief back then because to get people to
sign up back then, they just put posters out and
said things. There was a post or the bloke pointing
saying we need you, and young blokes okay, we'll sign up.
But this day and age, you know, it's just a
different with social media and that's of stuff. It's a
different vibe. I'm sure people are patriotic to some extent,
but in a different way. When you go to America

(20:55):
and people can think what they like about this, but
when you go to America, there's American flags everywhere. On
service stations is half a dozen and the big ones.
In Australia, we've almost got to a sad, funny stage
where we're scared to put the Australian flags up or
we don't want to celebrate, whether it be Christmas or whatever,
the things are that are typical to us. And I'm
not religious at all, but you know, we're starting to

(21:16):
change our way of life to not upset anyone. And
it's a little bit sad. If I'm honest, maybe it is.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
I'm ashamed to tell this story. But I went back
to work last week and I walked in and a
guy I work with goes, oh, hey, hey, you go mate.

Speaker 5 (21:34):
I said, yeah, good.

Speaker 4 (21:35):
He goes, you've been away on some run or something.
I was away for two weeks and I've talked about
this trip for months because it's a highlight of my life.
And I said, oh, I actually went Trep Coder in
New Guinea. He goes, oh, what's it like in New
Zealand And I said, no, mate, New Guinea. And he

(21:55):
looked at me and he goes, what's the difference.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
You're going to laugh this. I was at a hairdresser
once and for everyone get I like to get the
cut throat every now and then, and I was talking
about Coacoda and there's a young girls call to me
how and she goes, oh, so I've always wanted to
go there, and I thought, oh, someone that knows about it,
who's young. But anyway, as we got chatting, she was
talking about Kakado. Oh my goodness, so we went quite
on the same page.

Speaker 4 (22:22):
Yeah, well, yeah, that's part.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
Of my passion. That's part of my passion is to
keep the story alive and to train other trek leaders
up over time as I get older, to keep the
story alive. And I was fortunate enough to grow up
in an era where I met a lot of the
diggers who fought there, and I've even interviewed one on
this show before he passed, and they're all gone now.
And see, you've kind of got I think there's that
sort of chalice has been passed to myself and other

(22:46):
people to then pass that on to keep that story alive,
because it shouldn't. It shouldn't die.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
No, it shouldn't. And like I said, and what you
were alluding to before about the flag and you know,
people being almost too scared to do, you know, to
show their how Patreon they are, for fear of you know,
offending others.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
We don't want to get cancer, right.

Speaker 4 (23:13):
Mate. It's so it's so important. I feel who as
a country like even we talk about our indigenous culture
and I think that's hugely important. I love learning about that,
but I also I love about our modern history as well.
I think it's so important because it's too we are
I've been fortunate the traveler fair biting around the world

(23:34):
and this is the luckiest country in the world.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Absolutely, mate. Back to Kakoona, we samanon was money highlights?
What are the highlights and sort of things that you
think will stand out for a long period of time
for you.

Speaker 5 (23:47):
The fact that you we trekked down a waterfall and
I didn't take any photos or film at the time,
and I wish I did, But the reason I didn't
was because it was hands and feet.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
I was hanging on. I didn't want to fall down
someone else did. Literally a waterfall. How long did that
take us to get down?

Speaker 6 (24:04):
There was?

Speaker 2 (24:05):
There was a good forty minutes.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
Down a waterfall. Who gets to do that? No One?
And also day four when we we set off from
where were we when we walked up Brigade Hills?

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yeah, that's a long just for those listening. We were
going from Port Morseby back to Kakota, which is not
normal for me, but that's what fitted in. And so yeah,
that's a long, long uphill.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
That one a long uphill. And what to think about
it is there's no even footing, there's no there's no
even stride, there's there's always somewhere you've got to put
your foot just to keep keep moving and not fall over.
There's no easy path.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
It couldn't You couldn't walk and be looking at your
phone like you can in around the streets of Melbourne
or Brisbane.

Speaker 4 (24:55):
Yeah, and it was hot, like I was sweating a lot,
and that was a big grind. And I hiding our
trek leader for that trip here to ask need to
read the ode for the service we'd be holding up
for great on top of Brigade Hill, and I knew
it would be an emotional experience. So I spent that

(25:16):
walk up Brigade Hill having your good, long hard talk
to myself to say, don't you stuff this up. And
the other reason I kept thinking that was that was
taking my mind off the walk. It was a pretty
tough walk, but I just had to find a sustainable rhythm.
I guess, just keep walking, not break any records, just

(25:37):
keep chugging away. And I think as a group, we
did it really well, but I was ready for a
rest by the time he got to Brigade Hill. But
then once the service started, I really switched on because
I wanted to soak that in. It's a pretty special
place for us to take the time to have a

(25:58):
service and for everything that you've prepared there. And then
when it came time for me to read the ode,
once I heard myself say the words of the first line,
it brought me on stark and I was.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Everything over there right, And then there's obviously Amana before
we left, and there's your grandfather's grave, and that we
used the two pieces of the where you know they
went with songs to battle. They were young, strong of limb,
true of I steady in a glow like that's I
get gooseump saying that to you.

Speaker 4 (26:27):
Yeah, made that first line. It brought me undone and
I had to I had to take a few breaths
and have a minute, and then I only got through
the next line, and then I finally pulled myself together.
But it just really hit home, like it's so fitting
every part of that.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
I remember you were almost and crept me wrong, but
it was almost like you were annoyed with yourself for
letting it break because you wanted to do it so clearly.
But I told you I was out there. I've got
mates of mine, one of my best mates who was
in the SAS for years, one of the toughest humans
I know. And he broke down reading that exact oat,
so you know, he said it brought back memories of
one of his mates who was killed in afghan and

(27:05):
his wife had been with him since she was fourteen.
They've been together since I both at school, and three
kids were all there, and she said, I've never seen
him cry ever. No, he's just one of the toughest
humans ever. So you're in good company.

Speaker 4 (27:17):
Oh that makes me feel at bitter. But I was annoyed.
I was actually really pissed off because I was I
was deterbined to do a good job of it because
I was truly honored to be asked to read it,
and I still feel that way. But anyway, it is
what it is, mate, and I didn't get through it.
But yeah, Rick said I made him cry, So yeah,

(27:37):
I think.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
That emotion adds to it because it just shows that
it means a lot to everyone. You know, they talk
about low lights, as in, if there's such thing challenges
or was there a day where just went, man, I
don't know if I can keep doing this or anything
go wrong. Like from my observation, you seem to just
you seem to cruise through it. You've always got a
smile on your face, You've always got to quip and
a joke, and you're the typical Aussie Alarican to be honest.

(28:02):
But were days or they challenge you?

Speaker 4 (28:05):
Yeah, there was. At the end of day two, I
had a bit of a bit of chafing in the
groin area.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
How could I forget the Great Chafing Event of twenty
twenty four.

Speaker 4 (28:15):
Yeah, And I didn't give it too much thought. I went, oh,
that's a bit, it's a bit tender there. And I
was wearing like some shorts skins, which I do recommend,
but the scene on them had just got me for
whatever reason, and it was pretty uncomfortable. And then day
three it got worse and I thought, oh, you know,
all thoughts, Yeah, this is bad. That's when I spoke

(28:37):
to you and I had some qv rash cream wasn't helping.
Day four, I was really uncomfortable before.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
You were right, You're like, you just get out of
the saddle.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
Yep, yeah, yeah, I was walking like I had a
nappy on. That was a low light. But once I
spoke to you until a load me is magic three
V cream, that fixed it. So that was the only lowlight,
to be honest, and it was. It's not really much
to winge about. I just had such a great time.

(29:10):
I embraced everything about it and the way the weather
knocked me around, the way it rained in the afternoons. Yeah,
I loved it, mate, and physically I was okay despite
a little bit of rash.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Is there anything you would do differently now that you've
been as in, is anything you would take that you
didn't have, or is anything you had that you thought
I didn't.

Speaker 4 (29:32):
Really need that I've thought about this a lot, and
I took seven pairs of socks, which I'm glad I didn't.
I know that might team excessing to some people, but
I just loved having a fresh pair of socks every day.
I had one shirt too many, so I'd probably cut
back on that. And what a lot. I made up

(29:56):
these lunch bags at home with a handful of lollies
and two coffee bags in them, and I had one
for each day because I love a coffee. I thought,
if I can't get a good coffee out there, it's
really gotta suck. I ended up having way too much
coffee because in our ration packs there was always coffee.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
Well, the recon Victoria is a coffee culture of Australia, right.

Speaker 4 (30:20):
Well, yeah, yeah, I'll probably go with that. But yeah,
so I would do that again. The thinger probably would like,
like I loved how we got those little salami sticks
every second day and on a butcher by trade, and
I love to eat meat, so I probably I don't know,
could you take that.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Pack a bit more of that? Yeah, yeah, I've had
people bringing before. Yeah, and for people listening, just to
be clear, because not everyone listening to this show does
kakoda with me or our company. We supply full food packs, snacks, breakfast, lunch, dinner,
everything's in there, so just make sure your company does
that before you take advice from people and then end
up not taking food over because some companies will do breakfast,

(31:02):
lunch and dinner and you need to bring all your
own snacks. So make sure, just as a just a
little cab, make sure you're check in on that before
you rock over there go and can't wait for these
salami sticks and then they don't turn up.

Speaker 4 (31:13):
It is important, and there's all these little things you've
got a factor in, and this, this exact podcast. I
would listen to this while I was out doing my training.
So I learned so much from listening to other trekkers
that have already been with you. And so it was
I took a little inflatable mattress that I thought on

(31:34):
mine and mate, that was the best thing, and pretty
much everyone on our trip wanted it.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
I knew they wanted a bag, and you're out saying
it was some from TMO and stuff was jealous.

Speaker 4 (31:47):
Which it wasn't. I just go to clear that up again.
But that was that was awesome because my train I
thought was if I can get a good, restless sleep,
everything else will take care of itself. I was hyper
focused on my feet, like I said, so I put
probably way too much research into buying boots and socks.
I even tested three different pairs of socks to find

(32:10):
the right ones that I liked. So I guess that's
just knowledge. Because I'm not a trekker, I'm not a walker.
That stuff was all new to me.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Like, if you're going out doing a ride, you know,
through the desert or anywhere you've done fink and so on,
that'd be nothing to you. But to me, somebody who
doesn't ride, even just to do what you would consider
it be basic, I'd have no idea what to bring,
and I'd be leaning on people. And that's yeah. So
it makes total sense when it's not a thing you've
done a lot, that you've got to take the advice.
And the danger is you can take almost too much advice,

(32:42):
as in, if you ask ten different people who have
done Cocada, they're going to tell you ten different things.
But my idea behind this show is that there's forty
fifty sixty whatever episodes. I'm not sure what we're up to,
but you can hear all these different versions of what
people would and wouldn't have done, and it kind of
makes some informed decisions off the back of that.

Speaker 4 (32:57):
Even Yeah, and I guess you're right. Given my experience
with doing a lot of dirt bike riding and adventure rides,
I'm actually a bit of a minimalist when it comes
to packing. I wore the same short and the same
T shirt for the whole track, and then I just
had another pair of shorts and a long sleeve T
shirt at night, and that was fine. Fresh underwear and

(33:22):
fresh socks.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
You were saying to me on the trip at one
stage that this was something you wanted to do for you,
which I found really interesting because we live a lot
of our lives, particularly once we're adults, and we've been
adults for a long time in service of other people,
which is I was kids, or our partners, or our
work colleagues or whatever, and it's very rare almost to

(33:45):
do things for yourself. But kind of taught me through that,
And I'd love to talk about just being switched off
from technology and the world for that period of time,
like how that felt.

Speaker 4 (33:56):
Yeah, well as being a husband and a father comes
with the biggest responsibilities in my life in my opinion,
and so I'm always present with that in mind. My
wife has a small business, our sons at primary school.

(34:16):
You know, there's always stuff to do. So taking the
time to truly be selfish, that's how I viewed it,
because it was twelve days ord at all for me
to do kakoda, and that's a long time to be
away from my family, and to have what people would say,
a holiday without your family is a selfish act.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
And I think it's a lot of people going to
be fair.

Speaker 4 (34:44):
Yeah, absolutely, But even with with my dirt biking over
the years, that's been my career as a journalist, so
I was always switched on and it was it was
a job. I'm always aware that I'm there to do
a job. It's not a you know, it's not a
personal pursuit. But this was this was totally just or

(35:05):
me and and it does sound selfish, but when I
got over there, yeah, I thought about the life and
my son daily whatever, But it was the experience with mine.
It was for me, and there was there is no
distractions because your phone doesn't work.

Speaker 5 (35:20):
You didn't even look.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
At it, and you found that you just have these long, great,
long conversations that go all sorts of places and you
just talk and talk and you talk, and you're with
strangers and you're having these huge, massive conversations about all
sorts of things. And that doesn't happen in life because
there's too many distractions.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
We grew up where you had conversations, right, because we're
luckily enough to be at that age. I love the
Internet age, but I loved the pretty Internet age probably more.
But you don't think young people today, particularly teenagers coming
through now, they don't remember a time. Whether my youngest
daughter's seventeen turned seventeen next month, she wouldn't remember a
time with the Internet didn't exist, because really is memories,

(36:04):
and so then people in their twenties and even into
your thirties, they probably don't remember much of a time
with the Internet or it's mobile phone. I remember when
mobile phones didn't exist. I remember when you wore beepers
on your hip. When I was in the Army and
I was on the crash rescue teams and the beeper
went off, you had to go and find a phone
and ring work and see what they needed me to do,
you know. So it is nice to be able to
turn all of that off.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
It is mate, and the smallest things you appreciate, like
it'd be a creek or I remember when we were
walking to where were we coming into hoy and there
was about I don't know, maybe eight or ten butterflies,
these big butterflies of this vibrant blue color on them.
And normally in life I'd just be whizzing by and
I wouldn't even see them, and they sort of flew

(36:49):
with me for a little while. Or that sort of
felt like like these little things that you appreciate and
you spend the time appreciating because there's nothing else to do.
You just this whole thing is you wake up, you drink,
you walk, eat, sleep.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
It's such a great thing though, when you talk about
seeing the butterflies, and you and I as adults, if
we were out doing something, you wouldn't notice them. But
if you look at kids, particularly sort of seven years
down to sort of that three or four, they would
notice them because everything's wild and wonderful to them. But
we get so busy now, which is what I love
about kakoda. It's an adventure in general. Just it gets

(37:27):
you out of your head. It stops you downloading new
information all the time. It just lets you process what's
going on inside and that sort of stuff. And on
that note, while you're walking, what sort of things were
going through your mind when you weren't chatting to people.
Because I know for me, I'll be walking along and
there'd be sometimes an hour or two where no one's
really talking, and I realized we're all inside of our
own heads. And we're for me, I'm generally thinking about

(37:50):
things that might be a big deal in my life,
in my businesses, in relationships, you know, with the kids
or whatever, and I'm processing stuff for the first time,
and the answer sometimes it seems really simple, And I think,
why wasn't I coming up with that at home? Because
at home, I'm constantly downloading, I'm constantly putting out fires
as three or four arms to this business. There's emails

(38:11):
and phone calls and messages, and you're just constantly chasing
things up. What was the sort of things going through
your mind in those quiet times?

Speaker 4 (38:19):
Oh, do you really want to know?

Speaker 2 (38:22):
Person? You know?

Speaker 4 (38:24):
I loved those quiet times. I'm really particularly the real
early morning. All you could hear was our footsteps, and
I just loved that. I loved that no one felt
the need to say anything and we all were inside
our own heads. I loved how peaceful that was. But
I think it was more sort of in the middle

(38:45):
of the day, in the heat of the day, when
everyone's probably working a bit harder. That's when I found
I was I was subconsciously, I guess, unrolling all this
stuff that was in my head. And I think it
was day five. It was like a light bold moment

(39:06):
with a few like career wise and ambitions and whatever,
and I was like, well, I have been over complicating this,
and I think I've thought about this a lot since
I've been over. We've been home just over two weeks.
I just needed to slow down. I just needed to
slow down, have no distractions. And I don't know why

(39:30):
I was busting my ass to try and conquer the world.
Just everything just seems so simple then.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Which kind of brings me to my next question, which
I like to ask people, is I regularly get told
by people, and I've experienced myself that Kakoda is a
life changing event, and you know, like whatever you change
your perspective on things. You get to see these villages
happily in three generations of families sitting around having meals together,

(39:59):
cooking together, laughing together. They're not at it's nine o'clock
Monday morning. They don't have to be somewhere if there's
nothing to be done, and so on. So I often wonder,
whilst it's a very impactful experience, what actually changes for
us and for a lot of people. Sadly, six or
twelve months down the track, we're so locked back into
the western world and the hamster we are that nothing changed.

(40:21):
So I wonder, you know, how does life change for you,
and how can you hold on to one or two
lessons that you learnt out there to make sure that
that impact stays with you.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
I think this is this will be torm will tell.
When we got back to Lawsby, I looked in the
mirror and we went, well, yeez, I've lost a bit
of weight here and I couldn't wait to get on
the scales to confirm it. And I have. And so
I thought, I've done all this work. I'm not going
to waste that. I'm just going to I'm going to

(40:51):
try and maintain a better level of fitness and well being.
So that's first and foremost. And then after day five,
when I thought, you know, I need to simplify my
life a bit, I've actually applied for a different job.
I've actually got an interview on that tomorrow. So I

(41:16):
don't really know where I'm headed with all that at
the moment, but yeah, I've already made some changes. We're
two weeks home. So Kakoda does do that for you, well,
it certainly has for me, and I know it sounds
so bloody cliche, But it's true, mate, It's one hundred
percent true, and not just for me. I know after

(41:39):
speaking with a couple other people on our trek that
they've already made some changes in their life and their lifestyle.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Man, who's a quote years ago that said cliches are
cliches because they're true and so well, we're kind of
saying what is already out there a lot of the time,
and that's what makes it a cliche almost. But I agree,
like I've watched so many people have these epiphanies out
there and the emotions of the military history of walking
through the arches at the Finny or even at the

(42:06):
start of being at Bamana, of the makeship that you create,
not like obviously very well you knew Brick and Angus,
but then meeting other people and they just fall straight
into the fold, and you know, it does change a
lot of things for us. Like you, as an example,
you may never have run into someone like Holly or

(42:27):
Jimmy or Heidi, or you might just never cross parts
at those people in thirty million people in the country,
but what you do get is this introduction to people,
you have a shared experiences, which is what we experience
in the army going through basic training and so on,
and then you know, you stay sort of connected to
people at some level for period of time that you
never would have crossed paths with otherwise, and you get

(42:47):
a different perspective on life.

Speaker 4 (42:49):
Yeah, and that was a real thrill for me too.
I grew up in like a tiny country town, so Offen,
our school camps were in conjunction with other small school camps,
so you met all these new people and it was
always a big bit of an adventure. And remind me
of that in a lot of ways because you've just
thrown together. Yeah, it's a bit of a thrill. I'm

(43:13):
a people person, obviously. I like a chat and I'd
love to hear other people's stories. So I got to
kick out of that side.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
I'd love to chat about And this is not to
induce any sort of, you know, glowing reviews of what
we do by any stretch of the imagination, but I'd
love to chat a bit about Heidi because a lot
of people want me to lead them, and I understand
that I've done now ninety one trips. I'm very very
good at this, and I don't say that with ego,
it's just you do anything ninety one times. But I've

(43:41):
been training a lot of other trek leaders up and
Heidi had her first proper lead on this trip, and I, look,
I'm not going to lie. I was very impressed with
the way she went. Of course there's things to work
on it to fifth Kakoda, but you know, I'd like
to give other trek leaders an opportunity. And I'm training them, well,
I've got a high standard and they know that, and
I'm pushing them to that high standard so when they're
properly fully leading. But yeah, your sort of experience of

(44:05):
of having well one of females, because sometimes girls will worried,
They'll say, because I've got a couple of female teck lads,
I think it's harder being a female. I don't think so.
When you when you learn your strong leadership and when
you're good at what you do, when you're passionate and
so on. But yeah, just interested on your sort of
sort of views and take on having I mean, I
was there too, but I did try and stand in
the background a lot.

Speaker 4 (44:25):
Yeah, mate, I'm guilty of exactly what you said. I
wanted to come on this trick because I knew you.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Were going to be They're probably different than we're mates.

Speaker 6 (44:33):
But yeah, yeah, it's about trust because back back here
we only hear what the news telps us about PMNG,
So there's an element of am I going to be
safe over there?

Speaker 4 (44:45):
So and I knew I trusted you. I knew you've
been there so many times. So it's a matter of trust.
But as far as leading the trick goes, Heidi was
unreal mate. She was so good and she she's invested,
she's all in. You can tell like she's pretty passionate
about it, and I guess she she doesn't sell herself,

(45:08):
which I guess is probably just being humble because she's
new at it, whereas you can full confidently say, without
blowing wind, ww your own ass, I'm very good at
this because you are.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
I guess also, having me there it probably gives them
a bit of a shadow. And I think when she
gets her because she led three days on the last
trip without me there, I flew out with a Metovac,
which is my background, and I think that was easier
for her because all right, he's out of the way,
and it takes that a little bit of pressure off,
which I fully respect and understand, but I agree, and

(45:40):
that's another you know, people take this how you will.
It's just my experience is that a lot of females
in particular do undersell themselves, whereas blokes tend to oversell themselves,
but a lot of women undersell themselves. And she certainly
deserves to have confidence in herself, as to all the
girls I work with. But you know, like I've got
a girl Sammy, who's an absolute gun, really really good

(46:01):
good friend of mine. She's done tenkerd coaches to me
about to come into eleven one. She's very very quietly confident,
but she doesn't sell herself. And I guess Heidi and
other girls that I'm working with are the same. And
I've noticed in training and it takes a little bit
of extra time to give them their confidence in themselves,
to say, you're doing good at this and don't stress
about and a little thing that can go wrong, which

(46:23):
happens all of us can rock the boat a bit.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
So yeah, yeah, I get that. And I think it's
probably a female thing too, because girls can be bitchy
by nature, and they don't want to be judged by
others because if, particularly in Australia, pop your head up,
it might get kicked off. But mate, I think for

(46:45):
the job that Heidi did was fantastic.

Speaker 7 (46:48):
Mate.

Speaker 4 (46:48):
She's commanding, she's respectful to everybody else. She loves being
out there and being on the track. Yeah, I would
not hesitate in trekking again with her as my trek leader.
No worries at all. She's fantastic and I think she's
got a big future in it because she's really she

(47:11):
is invested. She cares about the locals, she cares about
our porters. She's aware of what's going on. She saw,
she saw the really substandard job I did of taping
my heels one day. Instead give me your tape and
then she take them up for me. She's across the
whole thing, So I think her confidence will grow within herself. Yeah,

(47:35):
you know, just through experience and honestlyheardly, I wouldn't hesitate
in booking the trip being d by Haidi.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
Yeah, awesome, Mate, you've just been in Kokoda, or even
if it's six or twelve months time and I don't know,
you're sitting around waiting for an uber and there's someone
else sitting there and they say, I'm thinking about going
to Kokoda. What do you tell them? What sort of
advice do you give them? What sort of other than
saying just do it, which I assume you would say,
because a lot of people sit on the fence about

(48:03):
it for years, and as you did, and now you've
find done it. You've got that perspective. But what's your tips,
advice and general sort of convoy would you have in
that four or five minutes you might have available while
you're waiting for you.

Speaker 4 (48:13):
Uber you will, First of all, it is go mate,
And I know I've had this conversation a lot since
I've been back with different people and they say I
can't do it now, I've left it too late, and
I just say, no, you haven't get stuck in. Get going.
There really is a lot of info out there, and
you know, mostly people that have talked to fellow dirt
by riders and they've all got shot knees. But I

(48:35):
I just make it happen, find a way, because life
is too short. Get out there, and may I finished
this trick. I've felt a million bucks on the last day.
I really did. I felt I felt physically, I felt great,
I was tired, I felt great. I felt I felt
a sense of fulfillment, and I think, don't rob yourself

(48:58):
of not experiencing that. If you truly want to go,
go make it.

Speaker 5 (49:03):
Find a way to do it.

Speaker 4 (49:05):
I had died a few eyes and cross a few
t's that I didn't expect to do to be able
to go, just because my doctor was probably too thorough. Yeah,
but you know what, that was fine too, Like I
cracked it because he ordered me to do an ECG
stress test on a treadmill and I was like, this

(49:27):
is over the top, come on, mate, And then I thought, well,
it's probably actually a good thing to find out if
my heart is healthy or not.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
Yeah, because you can feel good and still have something wrong.
And for people that don't know, I'm a para, me
can registers by trade, and yeah, you can have And
I have had one or two people picked something up
on that test and wring me and thank me. I'm
glad that you know that that's written in there so
it can happen. And if something happens out in the
middle of the jungle of New Guinea versus happening at home,
imagine your survivability chances of love. It's definitely worth checking.

Speaker 4 (49:56):
Yeah, yeah, But to answer your question, truly, find a
way to make it happen because life is too short.
You can go to Thailand and sit around a pool
at a resort whenever you want. That doesn't take any
effort other than just wipe your credit card. The sense
of the satisfaction that I got from completing it was huge.

(50:21):
Not physically the hardest thing I've ever done, but yeah
it was tough. But there's all these other things that
go with it, like sleeping in the tent and not
having publish hours, or flashing toilets, cold drinks, the heat,
like all those things add up but just make the
experience so much more memorable. I loved every bit of it, mate,

(50:44):
And I've been fortunate to do some crazy things and
go on all sorts of adventures, but this is right
up there, and.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
I'm glad on a personal level for me as a mate,
and you and I be mates. And I talked. I
did an intro to this podcast before I rang you,
which was around you know, I talked to everyone about
zoo cru and pre social media and all that sort
of stuff and how we meant so. But for me,
I just want to say, on a personal level that
I'm really glad that it lived up to because I
talk about a lot, You've seen it a lot on
social and I'm glad that my experience of what I

(51:15):
bring to the table actually did turn it, because I
would have hated for you to get there and go.
You've been talking this up for years. That was kind
of average.

Speaker 4 (51:23):
But like I said, there's a lot more to it
for me personally that you didn't know about, like with
family history and just my interest in Australian war history.
So that was a big motivating factor for me. But
the things, there's so many things I got out of you.
But one thing I love BOTTI our lead god. He

(51:44):
would the way he would walk through the jungle, his
arm the cross, He's got this upright posture, but his
feet they just sort of glide across the ground.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
He's very purpose the way he walks. He's very perposeful
the way he.

Speaker 4 (51:57):
Walks, and he's so graceful with and I tried to
mimic how he walks and I'm just bumbling through the
funny like an alephus and I just I couldn't believe
how graceful and easy he does it. And he's just
got this poker face where nothing bothers him. He just
seems to be just doing his thing. And I found

(52:18):
that fascinating. I know that's just a little but.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
Last year, the last year I did. Last year, his
wife and his baby, who was like under a year old.
We're down in Kakoda and we're going the other way,
and actually they were just a little bit further up
at Cavello and that first little stop before Hoy and
we ran into them and next you know, he carried
the baby all the way back to a Lola for
the next two days, whilst carrying his backpack, whilst walking

(52:43):
with his arms fold, was leading the group and never
changed that pace. And you think that baby was in
the safest hands possible because he's just Yeah, it's hard
to explain the people to your experience it.

Speaker 4 (52:55):
Yeah, it is hard to explain. And you know, one thing,
since I've been back, and I feel a bit guilty.
A lot of people have said, oh, well done, that's
such a great achievement, and I think, yeah, it is,
but it's not like I went to walk. Yeah I'm
not a legend because I've walked Kakoda. I just went

(53:17):
to experience it. And see what those boys had to
endure without people trying to kill me.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
But do you know what the win is for us is?
And where you know you are a hero? I guess
in your own life. And I say that not lightly.
Is as we discussed a little bit earlier, so many
people never do this stuff because of all the constraints.
They don't solve the problems, they don't work out a
way to make a thing happen, and then they do
get to an age where you go, I'm just past
that now and for whatever reasons physically, financially, you know, mentally,

(53:50):
whatever the thing is. And so, as you know, you
had to jump through a lot of hoops, and as
you said, with your wife, having your own small business,
and then a child in primary school, which you know,
as anyone of the kids know, they keep you pretty
much on your toes, and you still found all the
ways to make it happen. And it was a trip
that I think even a few weeks out, I'm not
sure you were sure you were going to get on

(54:11):
the plane because you know, there's just so much going on.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
Yeah, there is a lot going on, and just am
I ready? Am I ready? And it was such a
funny thing because we've been in we've been in contact
on Instagram message and you said, I you pumped, and
I said, no, I'm shitting myself. But it was just
the unknown. But when I got there, strangely, I felt
nothing and you you even said I excited and nervous,

(54:39):
and I said, no, nothing, I was. I was. I
was actually sort of a bit Narmal said that.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
To me before any it's really interesting.

Speaker 4 (54:48):
Yeah, well it was interesting to me. And we started
walking and I felt, I don't know, I guess at
peace without trying to sounded like a wanka. Yeah, it
was just like, no, I'm meant to be here, I'm ready.
Let's just I just want to get into it.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Yeah, that's awesome. So for me anyway, thank you for
coming on the trip. Thanks for you know, obviously being
with the crew and Heidi and it was just a
good little group and I think it was a pleasure
to finally this year. I've taken a couple of mates
across in those couple of trips who've talked about doing
it for years and now they've finally come. And I
love doing a good job for everyone. But obviously when
you've got mates on the trip, it's another level. So
f just on a personal level and say thanks for that.

(55:29):
Maybe before we sign off, any sort of last thoughts
or last words for people listening to the show.

Speaker 4 (55:35):
Yeah, as I said, I'm not a walker. But just
the other day I spoke to Rick was on our
trek as well, and I said, would you go back?
And he said in a heartbeat, I said, yeah, me too.
It'll it won't be what you expect, and you'll get
bits that you expect. It's such a magical experience for

(55:58):
all sorts of different reasons, and different people are going
to handle it differently, all of you are different. But
for me, yeah, mate, I would go back because it
was so bloody good for the physical test, the emotional
roller coaster, and just for I don't want to sound
like a flog, but just for the peace. It was peaceful.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Yeah, awesome, your legend, Tuffy.

Speaker 4 (56:23):
Thanks you for time today, mate, Thanks very much.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Less harmsoe fee pressing bond and visuals.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
And the bond between Ossie's and the people of Papio
and New Guinea was forged in war and it endures
in peace. We've felt that friendliness, that special connection in

(57:04):
the comforting present of our porters and in every small
community along the Kakoda Track.

Speaker 7 (57:10):
WHOA Okay, guys, thanks for tuning in. It would be

(57:31):
awesome if you'd share this with anyone you know that's
going to the Kakoda Track or that's been and has
a keen interest in the track.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
It's people and those that choose to track it.

Speaker 8 (57:40):
The pillars of Isherrada say, courage, endurance, makeshif and sacrifice
great words to live by, and this podcast will offer
makeshift and a place for those that live and love
the CoA Coda Track experience until next episode, Live a
life that inspires you and those around you, and remember
to take time out to think about what's really.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Important, what's really important?

Speaker 4 (57:59):
What's really important?

Speaker 1 (58:02):
Thanks fellows. Take to the Katkoda Track podcast. To get
in touched or stay up to date. Go to Kakoda
Track podcast on Facebook or email Glen at Adventure Professionals
dot com below you don't forget to subscribe and share
with your friends. Let's keep the spirit and the stories
of Kakoda and the P and G people alive.