May 23, 2025 • 40 mins
Hey Everyone,
I finally got to take my partner, and PNG national, Mili Saul to Kokoda. This is her experience.
KOKODA FITNESS
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
A Podjay production. This podcast is proudly brought to you
by Adventure Professionals www dot Adventure Professionals dot com dot
au for.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Me, Mission Ridge and Brigade Hill. The whole Kakoda campaign
more people need to know about it, or know everyone
knows someone who's trek Kakoda, but to actually understand the
stories of what these young guys did, it's harrowing what
they went through.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
They were staunched to the end against odds uncountered, and
they fell with their faces to the.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Welcome to the Kakoda Track Podcast. Hosted by former soulject
Glen Asa. This is the place to hear stories from
those who've trecked Kakoda and gained tips and knowledge about
what to expect on the track, or to relive your
own amazing experiences. The Kakoda Track Podcast keeping the spirit
of Kakoda alone.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Hey everyone, Welcome back to the Kokoda Track Podcast. Now
I haven't done an interview for a little while with
someone that's trek Kakoda, and this week, I guess it's
a little bit exciting because I get to introduce my partner,
Millie Saul.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
How are you excellent?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
If anyone that doesn't know. Millie was born and bred
in PNG, so she's a mil And Bay girl. And
we've been traveling back to New Guinea for the last
couple of years together. And she is the current pup
New Guinea in fifty seven kilo national boxing champion and
she'll go down to fifty four kilo soon and she's
a very good chance, we believe, of representing P and
G at the comwork game. So you've got a deep
(01:42):
connection to the country. For me being able to take
you on this experience, I don't know, like it meant
a lot to me because when we first met, I
said to you, like, how long since you've been home?
And that was after COVID and all that sor of stuff.
You hadn't been over for eight years, and so I
remember saying, that's crazy, you got to go home, and
I was going home more than you at that stage,
(02:03):
very jealous of Yeah. So before we talk about having
your first Kakoda experience, which the reason it didn't happen
soon was because you did an ACL injury, But I
want to talk about the first few times we went home,
Like I noticed the changing you immediately once you got connected.
I remember before we went home, and if you don't
mind me sharing, We're driving one time and you just
started getting really teary and I said, what's wrong, and
(02:24):
you said, I just want to go home. So now
we've got to do that. A lot taught me through
all of that, that firstly year of going home together.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Like home is such a powerful word. I want to
get emotional.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Now you're allowed to.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
Yeah, it really is, because that was it is you
genuinely feel in your heart that you're home, like you're
where you're supposed to be. Yeah, it was beautiful. It
really was seeing all my family and my friends and
the people who I grew up with. And then I
looked back and I was like, damn it, it has been
(03:01):
eight years. Like that's almost a decade. That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
It's too long. And we got to go. You took
me to Milbay and we got to go and see
your dad's grave. Yeah, which again you know, with dad
being buried there and you know, being a PNG national,
it's a shame that you hadn't got to do that
in the eight years. And we talked a little bit
about that, and I don't want to go too deeply
into it, but you've been in relationships in the past
(03:27):
before you and I with people that thought buying your
holidays or handbags, all these things, whereas a trip home
would have been to me far more powerful.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
Man with some of the things that I have been bought.
And this is not trying to sound ungrateful or anything
like that, but you know that's a ticket home.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
You said that to me, Like that handbag I could
have went home.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
I don't even use it, you know what I mean,
It's not my style. It's just Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So we went home, and I noticed everything that changes
about you. Your accent goes back to more P and
G because the longer you're in Australia, more that sticks.
But when you were around P and G, people like
just feel you go back to your natural state.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
Yeah, and that's pretty the accent that I grew up with,
you know, the way that my family and friends will
understand me, you.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Know, and getting to speak language. I love listening to
you speak language. So your first few Kakoda experiences weren't
on cocoda because you had nacy heal injury. But you
would come over with me and then you'd go home
while I'd go out in the track, and then you
come back at the end and you got to meet
trekkers before and after. What were you noticing back then
on your first few experiences before you got to trek
(04:36):
it yourself.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
Well, I love the dinners at the end, So we
used to listen to all the trekkers and you know,
tell us their version of how what they took away
from the track, and I just sit there going, god,
I really want to do this walk. I really don't
want to do this walk, but my knee wasn't ready.
And but yeah, the way that people really embrace the country,
(04:59):
and regardless of how hard that they work for eight
days walking, the thing that they took out of it
is how much they love the people and the villagers
and the borders and the country. And yeah, so it
was really nice to hear.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Obviously, you know, I've got a close affinity with the
country and I've been traveling there for years. But what
was it like to experience, I guess me for the
first time over there, because this is different to me
being your partner here or your boxing coach, or this
is me being in your country. Now.
Speaker 5 (05:29):
Yeah, well I remember the first time, even not walking
the track, I saw how amazing you treat the people.
And I have said this before. You know, it's refreshing
to see a big white man in a third world
country and not walking there and trying to just own
it and emboss everybody around and thinking that they're lesser
than them, and because it happens quite a lot, so
(05:49):
it was really really nice to see. And then now
that you're my partner, it's even it's even better.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
So all right, let's talk a bit about this actual trek.
And what I've done is I wanted to I was
sandingly before we started this. I always asked the same
questions of people on coder, so I always ask about,
you know, how they found it, what surprised them, what
gear do they wish they'd taken, What gear did they
take that they didn't end up using. We normally talk
(06:15):
through all of that stuff their training programs. I think
that's a bit unfair because Millie is a professional athlete, so.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
We don't struggle on downhill, so I will say that.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
But what I did want to ask, and I cheated,
and I use chat GBT to help me with some
questions I wanted to find out from the point of
view of a pup. New Guinea National who's been living
in Australia for a few years now, but you know,
largely grow up through your most formative years in PNG.
That is your home still and you'll always referred to
it his home and as much as you love Australia
and the boys are born here, Australia as your second home.
(06:47):
And so I wanted to know as a PNG national
going back and then being a part of understanding what
Kakoda was about, because my experience is a lot of
P and G nationals don't understand the significance of Kakoda
on an international level. So all these questions are kind
of formulated around getting to know a side of Trekking
Kokoda that we don't always get to ask just Aussies
(07:07):
to trek Cocoda. Yeah, and I hope for those of
you listening it gives you some insights from the other side.
And I'm very passionate about how we treat our porters
and the boys and Killer and his team and the
locals and villages. And I'll hold that standard and not
all trekking companies do. I'm not bagging them out, but
that's just a fact. They're not slaves. They're not here.
You know, just to make up the numbers for us.
(07:29):
Most people that I've taken on Kokoda could not treck
the whole thing on their own if they had to
carry all their own gears, set up the tens and
do the stuff.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
So most people want most Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
And so I want you to experience from the PNG side.
You know what that means. So first question was what
did it mean to you as someone born in pup
new getting to walk Kakoda.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
Well, we grew up not knowing much about the Kokoda track,
very general knowledge, and I remember first hearing about it,
and I wanted to do it because I thought it
would be a tough thing to do and I always
like to challenge myself. So that was when I was
a kid. That's that's how I felt about it. Was
not until growing up and learning the full history and
you know how the fuzzy Wuzzy Angels helped, how much
(08:12):
they were involved and yeah, so yeah, it was really
good to learn that side of things.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
So so the second question kind of ties into what
we talked about before and when we made your emotional
to return into your country, how did it feel to
return to the land of your birth? But seeing it
through the eyes of a trekker because obviously you spent
a lot of time with the boys when we were
on Brigade Hill. You stood in seeing your national anthem
(08:39):
with the boys, of course, but also you know, spending
so much time in Australia, now you got to experience
this from the trekker's point of view as well, so
you get to witness how they treat not just our groups,
other groups, how they treat the locals. You know, what
their experience is. But it's still your home.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
Yeah, yeah, like it was through the eyes of a treker.
I guess you could say, you know, how absolutely amazing
the porter and the boys are, you know, walking over
that truck like it's nothing. It's wild how they do
that with no shoes sometimes. And you know I was
a trekker, so they were carrying my big pack. You know,
it wasn't like I was doing all of that like
(09:18):
like they do.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I think you could have too, but we were prepping
for a fight.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Yeah, so we didn't want to do too much.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
We need to look after your body a little bit.
You're fighting only weeks later.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
Yeah, but then returning home and then realizing, you know,
the long drops and so looking at that from a
trek is point of you when I haven't had it,
had to use a long drop or a natural shower
in so long like that was obviously it took me
back as well.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
But they feel good.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Yeah. I love the natural showers, I really do. Yeah,
or washing in the river, that's just my thing. I
missed that so much about home.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Did walk in Kakota deepen your connection to PNG? And
I find that an interesting question because you've had such
a deep connection. Our whole house is built around P ANDNG.
But more importantly, did it shift how you see the
cultural identity? And I guess the question there is a
lot of people PNG people don't they know trekkers come
over and trek. They know there's money being made through that,
(10:12):
you know, from both the PNG in Australians, but they
probably don't fully understand the cultural connection and how internationally
important it was. So did it help connect you in
some way to the story of Kakata?
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Yeah? For sure.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
It reminded me of how helpful and hospitable our people are.
And yeah, it just reminded me of you know, how
good our people are really.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
So, Yeah, what does the story mean to you as
a partner in Guineon and can I preface this by
I didn't work with the Hunters years ago, and I
got up and talked to them about building and for
those who don't know, the Hunters are a Queensland Cup
rugby League team and which is one under the NRL,
and I was trying to connect them with their story
the way the All Blacks connect. They're not all Maltis
(10:58):
in the All Blacks, but they connect with the New
Zealand story really well as their purpose and I wanted
to help, you know, the Hunter's out, so not everyone's
from the Kakoda Track area, but I wanted to explain
that side of it, and they loved it. They really
boored into it. Hard to say that we're a warrior
nation and so we should perform as a warrior nation so.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
Also together, you know, helping each other, and yeah, well
on that.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
What does it feel like to hear the term fuzzy
wuzzy angels on the track because there's a real legacy
to that and I've had social media posts where people go, oh,
that's racist, but I know my boys on the track,
you know.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Ivan and racist because of the hair.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Because I think because the term comes from just the
way their hair was back then. Obviously they had the big,
fuzzy wuzzy hair.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
As opposed to the boys will call the boys will
say white person. So they just call it how it is,
so no one's getting offendeds It's all good.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
How different aren't they? Like I remember years ago just
talking to the boys and they were talking about two
white people or two trekkers, and one was a bit
bigger than the other, and you couldn't say that in Australia,
but they were talking about someone and one of them
to which one underneath it or the fat one?
Speaker 4 (12:06):
And he's trying to know.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
He's just saying there's one that's bigger than the other.
And that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, He's not trying to offend anybody. He's
just they're very literal people. So when I hear fuzzy
wizy angels, it doesn't you know, it's not offensive or
it actually makes me feel proud, you know.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
That's the way they were described.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
And then you could also look at the positive like
angels like they helped they were.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
There were there moments on the track when I'm talking
through the history where because you've spent a lot of
time in Australia as well. Now, was there a moments
where that you felt those two histories intertwined and you
had a better understanding because you've come from p and
g Yes and living in Australia.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
Yeah, for sure, you explained the history so well. And
you know, like I said, when I was young, I
only wanted to do it because I thought it would
be a challenge. And then as I got older, I
learned a little bit more, and then on the track,
I learned a hell of a lot more because of
the way that you tell it and how experienced you are,
and so it definitely intertwines, you know, it's it's a
beautiful experience.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
When people talk about Kakoda, there's a lot of onus
on Australians. It was the first defeat the Japanese had
in a land battle, and we were heavily outnumbered four
thousand Australians verse twenty four and a half thousand Japanese
throughout the whole campaign. Not enough owners is put on
the fifteen thousand papuins. Without them, there's no way they
could have won this. And so for me, I like
(13:28):
to make sure that that history gets told as accurately
as we know it. Because the fifteen thousand pupuns allowed
us not to have to carry our food, our ammunition
now wounded, so our four thousand fighters could fight. The
Japanese didn't have the Pupinins on their side. Very early
on the Pupuins left them for you know, there's a
whole stories behind that. But they had to carry all
their own gear, so whilst they out numbered us, they've
(13:49):
also had to do a lot more work and we
could just fight, So that side it's pretty important. I
think it's the most significant international thing as far as
you know. This is a world war and pup New
Guinea played a massive role in that, and I wish
we could somehow teach all of them that they should
all be proud of it. It's not just because you're
not from that land. You had to be from Oro
Province to know everyone should be proud of them. Mill
(14:10):
Bay has its own history, obviously, and we're looking at
for those listening putting together some tools of mil Bay,
which is where Millie's from, because there's significant history there too.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
Yeah you're just driving around, there's all, you know, stuff
from the wall that they've left and made memorials of.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
And so leaving P and G and coming to Australia,
I'm sure it was very exciting at the time because
you were in high school. But I also feel like
there's pieces of you that and tell me if I'm wrong,
but that regret or miss or feel disconnected in some
ways for some years from your country by not getting
to go home.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
Yeah, especially since I had kids, I really do wish
that I taught them how to speak pigeon And yeah
it's hard now because they know English so well, but
I really do just and that's their cousins sort of
that not me.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
So so then the next question is did walk in
Kakoda help you reconcile your journey of leaving Australia, sorry,
leaving PNG and coming to Australia. By going back, you've
got an identity in both countries. Now, do you feel
like now that you've been traveling back there, it's helped
you reconcile your own journey and so I think.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
So, yeah, it's very grounding going home and yeah, just
it's like that word, it's home.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
So and you get to impart your knowledge that as
much as I've been there. I can't have the knowledge
that you have right of the country. So we'll often
talk to trackers about stuff, but you can give so
much more depth. And the boys sometimes struggle because they're
English isn't always great. They can't find the words to
say the thing, and they just try and get out
of the conversation. But you can stay in it and
(15:46):
give people a better understanding.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
Yeah, And actually, you know when you listen to the
boys when they're cooking or when they're setting up the tents,
and I love the fact that I know what they're
saying most of the time, because sometimes when they don't
want me to know what they're saying, they speak more
to and I don't know how to understand.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
What your dad's puke more to you.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
See, my dad spoke quite a few languages.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, it's funny when we have if you ever get
a word wrong in English, which is rare, but and
I'll make fun of you because that's that's what partners do.
And you'll go, how many languages do you speak? Clods
of thea this is my sec my first language. What
did the land itself say to you? Through the villages,
(16:23):
through the rivers, through you know like this is. I
know it's a different part of the country, but it
must have felt very similar to your life in the
village when you were younger.
Speaker 5 (16:32):
It did, and I know I keep saying it, but honestly,
it said welcome home because I spent If you've listened
to other podcasters that we've done together, you know I
spent a few years living village love. So we washed
in the river and we walked to get water, and
you know, we had no shoes and we lived at
a heart.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
But we weren't poor. That was just that's what people
get wrong. They look at that in the villages and
they think they're poor, and we think we need to
pour all these Western resources into them to make them
more Western eyes. And you know, we have anxiety and
depression and all of these things that happen in Western society.
Even though we have all this stuff.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
There was always there was always someone to help us
if we need it, or give us food or whatever
it was. And you know, when you're walking through the villages,
you see you see that, you see the huts, you
see the rivers, you see the villages, you see the people,
and it's just like I'm home.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
For those people that haven't tecked yet, and a lot
of people listen to this show with the intention of treking.
That's why they listened initially. What would you hope that
they understood better about Puppy ner Guinea.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
Don't just look at the news and what you see
on socials about PNG. And you know, because every single
person who says, oh, you're from PG, isn't it dangerous?
And it's just yeah, don't walk around thinking you'll be
You'll be fine.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
But PNG is.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
A beautiful, hospitable, welcoming, amazing country if you get out
of the main cities and go into the villages like
like the we do on the Cokoda Track.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
And I always say to people that when you have
a center like Port Moresby, that's last that I checked
with seventy percent unemployment, you can put that unemployment anywhere
and you're going to have problems because people are trying
to survive. And if we wanted to help solve problems
in p and G, it would be through better work opportunities,
employment and education opportunities in those centers. But out in
(18:28):
the villages, I think just leave them alone. Healthcare and
phone access, so the two things they really want other
than that. Leave them alone. They're getting it right when
COVID happened, and they grow their own food, They've got
all their water that they need, and they live with
two and three generations all living together. They didn't need anything.
If the whole world disappeared during COVID, people out in
(18:50):
the villages of Partment of Guinea would have been the
only one surviving. Not in Africa, not in other countries
I've been where they've now become so westernized and as
western as we think we've got it nailed, and we
have not, because you watch people panic over toilet paper here,
people who are fighting over milk and eggs and flour. Yeah,
we had a cyclone that didn't really happen, you know,
a couple of months back when we were coming home
(19:12):
from Canada and we got home as that was supposed
to be happening, and the shops were cleared out. You
couldn't buy food.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
And that's that's another thing.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
Everyone in Papen Neguin is so willing to give, and
so you know, if you're down on something, you know
someone's going to give you something. And so if you're
not going to go to the garden and there'll be
one last you know, plant left and someone's not going
to share that with you. Whereas here you go to
the supermarket and there's one cut and of eggs left,
you're probably going to get into a fight for that
(19:38):
cuton of eggs, you know.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
You know.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
So people will give or you'll see it often. Two
boys walking around and not one of them's got no shoes,
and the other person gives them one of their thongs
and they're wearing one for on one thng, like it's just.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Rather than have a pair and you have none. Yeah,
I've bought new shoes for boys of mine over there before,
and we're walking every year of buying a new pair
of these specific shoeses like this Salomon Runners. They're blue
and yellow. That's the cut. I don't know why. But
and then we were walking and he wasn't wearing them,
and I said, you're not wearing a new shoes and
he said, now, my dad said he needed some shoes,
so he gave them to it a lot of people
(20:12):
would have given the old shoes if someone needed it,
because I've just got new ones. I here, you can
have my old ones now. He gave his new ones
in a brand new box, knowing full well that he
wasn't going to get a new sept for another year. Yeah,
and hey, if you need it, if you ask people
as trekkers, if you ask people over there for things,
they will go and find it and sort it out
for it. Even if they needed it, they'll take it
off their own back. So I think we can learn
a lot in that sense. How do we better share
(20:37):
the pup unigin inside of our story? Like I think
I personally do it well, and I'm not just saying that,
but I do, and I know you've seen that. But
for people in general, and I'll give you my opinion
on this in a second, But how do you think
we better share the P and G side.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
On Cocoda?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
You mean just about their part in Kokoda in particular,
and make sure you.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
Do your research and get reviews on who you go with, like,
because there's all sorts of different people who we'll share
it differently.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
And Lug you just said you do it very well.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
You do it very respectfully, very truthfully, and the way that,
in my opinion, it should be done. There's no amount
of that track or even watching you with your track
is even if I haven't walked. Do I find that
you are belittling or condescending towards our people? And some
people are, and so do your research.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
So yeah, And I've watched that sadly where the way
some people treat them and I'm not a fan of
that in any country but certainly in PNG. But for me,
I'll pull trek is up and I will let them
know in advance if you're going to do something that's
going to be against the cultural norms, I'm going to
let you know because they won't always. And a key
one for me and for people listening if you're planning
on going, is for girls wearing really short shorts like
(21:51):
bummer shorts and stuff, which in Australia totally cool, that's
a thing, But in Pannge they don't like that and
they take it quite personally and they feel like it's
pushing against their religion, mostly Seventh Day of Venice. But
they'll very rarely say something.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
They won't they won't say anything.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
And I've had like killo, who's my head guide? And
you know, but people have heard about as well. I've
hadn't come up and say to me, oh, you know, boss,
would you mind talking to them about that. And yet
I've been in campsites where not my trekkers, because I
would tell my trekkers where they're running around in you know,
g string swimmers and stuff, which again in Australia, fine,
(22:27):
and no one's saying anything and they're not my trekkers.
And I think, well, you should be letting people know
that when you go into someone else's country. I don't
care what country is, you need to play by their rules,
whether you like them or not. And the fact that
we're not telling you you can't have your freedom as
a woman. It's just that there goes against their beliefs.
Look at what their people are doing. It's the same.
And for men, the other side of that is ossie men,
(22:51):
particularly in the jungle, think that they can just pee
on the nearest tree or you know, I've had blokes
get their kit fully off when I've had all men's
trips and hang on, there's women and children in this village.
You wouldn't stand in the middle of Bridson with your
pants off because you think you these people don't matter.
You just wouldn't do that. And so you just have
to let people know to have a little bit of
modesty around that stuff. And that's just one of the
(23:13):
cultural norms. The other one is particklar Out in the villagers,
they don't swear a lot. You'll notice, Yeah, and Ozzie
swear a lot. The f and the sea bomb comes
out and I just say to be hey, that's not cool.
If you listen to them, they're not talking like that,
and they're very very respectful people. The only time you
really hear a lot of language in p And is drinking,
you know, import ware zoo, when people get a few
(23:34):
drinks under their belt. And I guess that's anywhere, but
out in the villages you very rarely.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yeh.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I've literally never heard my boys swear, and we do
it all the time in Australia. So just their little
cultural things that if you're conscious of you can be
more respectful of the local people. Don't just say I
couldn't have done it with animal than the most beautiful people.
Actually respect them.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Yeah, that's really And also you know, don't just bossom
around like they're your slaves, Like, yeah, you got to
ask them respectfully how you would ask any other human
being if they can do something.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
For because they will do it.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
They will do it and they'll go out of their
way to do it. In fact, most of the time
I found that they anticipate you, so you don't even
have to ask, and they'll go and do the thing
that you needed, whether it's hold your backpack, whether it's
make sure you don't slip, whether it's your water's empty,
I'm going to go and fill it up, you know.
So most of the time they're really amazing and they
do anticipate you. But if you need something done, just
(24:26):
ask nicely.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Being from P and G, I know there were times
where and you're very independent, like you get your word
while and want to go and do it yourself, and
the boys over it and pop up and grab it.
You don't know I can do it, and I'll say,
just let him do it.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
Yeah, And they do love doing it. And I don't
want to take that away from them, or you know,
make them make them feel like I'm not doing that,
they're not doing their job or what they're here for
or whatever. But I don't know, I just I don't
want anyone to go out of their way for me.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
It's hard.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Do you want to do more?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (24:55):
I want to do as many as I can.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
So my one hundredth is next. The second insect trip next,
you'll be more one hundredth Obviously we'll do that one
together because it has to fit in around boxing and
kids and everything else. But we'll definitely do that one together.
Where do you see yourself adding more value into what
we do as a business now?
Speaker 5 (25:16):
Just coming from my background, do you know? So you
know I can translate for people, I can tell them
about our land. I can probably be that person who says, hey,
this is culturally unacceptable because I know and you know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
You find the boys accepted you really.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
Well, yeah, they really did, you know.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And so I always sleep with the boys, like in
the huts and stuff. And I don't advise that for
everyone because malaria is a thing over there, and I
think if you're over there one time, you probably want
to try and protect yourself from that as best you can.
But for me, I sleep in the grass huts, and
obviously you slept in there with me, and the boys
are really good with all of that. And I remember
last year, I think I took a photo in one
of the grass huts the fire burning inside, you know,
(25:59):
literally just banana leaves on the ground, and I sent
it to you when I got back, and you're like,
I want to do that, and so now we're getting
to do that. But you're also you know, you're you're
an Aussie in a lot of ways too, right, So
you're a successful businesswoman, You're very successful in everything that
you athletically, and you like the finer things in life.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
Yeah I do. I do. I love a good, good
long lunch.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, we love we love her find and we love
all of that. So then but when we go to PNG,
I see you. I definitely see you change the way
you dress to do the right thing by your country,
the way you operate, the way you do things, and
you just go back to being that person as well.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
I love that, you know I can do both. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Now I'll ask some standard questions that I normally ask
people on Kokoda. Was there any day that you found
particularly hard, or any section of the track, even as
an athlete, that you found more difficult, or was there
anything that surprised you about the track?
Speaker 5 (26:56):
Probably not surprised, just because I've listened and I've watched
your videos and you talk about it a lot, and yeah,
so I sort of knew what I was getting into.
Surprised by myself is the downhill was really really tough
on me. So yeah, every time you do a briefing
in the morning and you'd say that we've got this
(27:17):
much time of going downhill for this day, I'm like,
oh God. And I tried to not let it show,
obviously because I didn't want to be that person. But
going downhill was really hard for me. Going uphill was amazing.
I absolutely love going. Man, it's a challenge for me.
I love a challenge. I love like when your heart's
beating through your chest and you, yeah, you just tell
(27:40):
yourself you've got to keep going.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
So that downhill probably to be fair for people listening,
I think would be based off the acl still I.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
Think so, yeah, because it was It's just obviously you
were just going down and you're catching yourself on your
knee with every single step, and then it was slippery,
so you had to go a little bit slower. It was,
and you had to go slower than I would have liked.
And I like to go a little bit quicker when
I do things, and so we're going really slow, making
sure and then usually if you're walking downhill and you
(28:08):
hurt a little bit, like when we're doing heel sprints
and we'll turn and face backwards and you walk backwards
downhill just to give a pressure off. You can't do
that because you might trip over something. You have to
have your eyes on, and then the fact that you're
looking down for all of this time and your neck hurt.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And yeah, so then on the uphill we did we
do a little uphill race. We call it a self
paced event.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
We just race.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
We let people just go. And you took off. You
were feeling a bit fluy that day and I said,
and like eight or so people that headed off up
the hill and I said, don't race it just because
you're not feeling understeing. You said, no, I'm racing. And
you did it in under twenty two minutes.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I overtook pretty much everyone that had left before you
by one. And that was in the wet. So I'm
interested to see, one, how are you going to dry
because you'll probably hit some twenty minutes, But also what
did that feel like? That is a hard hell?
Speaker 4 (29:00):
It was a hard heel.
Speaker 5 (29:01):
Yeah, But you know, you're just telling yourself inside you
got to keep going, to keep going, to keep going,
go to keep going. And I am very competitive as
you know, so there's no way I was stopping on
that hill.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
I feel that the boys are pretty impressed with you. Yeah,
you are one of their own, and they liked that
and they love speaking to you in language I noticed,
and they really accepted that, and then they wanted to
see you do well.
Speaker 5 (29:23):
I think, yeah, well crazy, because I've an Iceman, my porter.
He said to me when we're walking up the hill,
he goes, Miller, you go and I'll come up soon.
And I said, how are you going to just chill?
And he said, yeah, I just got a few things
to do, I'll come up. And I was like okay.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
So I was like off, I'm like, I'm not waiting
for anybody. I'm going. So I kept going.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
I kept going, and I lost him for arakon between
ten to fifteen minutes, really closer to the fifteen minute mark,
and then I hear these footsteps behind me and I
was like, oh my god, someone's going to come and
overtake me, and like my heart starts racing even more
than I already was. And then I turned around and
icemand's just there and.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
I was like, where did you come from? And then
he just goes. I caught up.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
I love it understated how he said, Iceman that you
or something?
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (30:10):
Is that you? And he's like yeah, And I was like,
where did your coveres that I caught up?
Speaker 4 (30:14):
I was like, what, They're so crazy? How they do that?
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Hey?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
A friend of mine who I did a podcast with
years ago, Ricky. He did the track I can't remember now,
under forty hours, maybe under thirty. But he had organized
happ one of the porters, you know, to do like
an eight hour stint and so on, and Iceman. This
Iceman was a fair bit younger but still crazy fit,
and he went with him and he stayed with him
the whole way. And the interesting thing is that, and
(30:39):
this is no disrespect to you, Ricky, if you're listening,
Ricky was very pumped and excited. He got media over
here about what he did. And yet Iceman did it
with no training. He sat right beside him, easily could
have overtaken him at any stage. And it kind of
reminds me of Tending Norgay. He was the sherpa who
first climbed Man Evers. So the first human to stand
on top of Mount Everest was not Sir Edmundhillary. It
(31:01):
was one of the Sherpers and they hadn't done it
before either. But back in the original sort of in
the fifty sixty, seventies and eighties, even maybe through the nineties,
you never heard his name. He was always it was
always Emilori. And well it was kind of like that, like,
you know, Ricky's getting all these accolades and he raised money,
good money for veterans charities and all, but you think, well,
I haven't did it too. And his initial plan was
(31:22):
just to do eight hours with you, and he's just
been a this pace is or I will just stay
with you.
Speaker 5 (31:27):
So I would love to challenge myself and see how
fast I could do it, even if we could do
it for a fundraiser or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
It's June July next year. If we could fit it
into your fight schedule, we will try and do for
you a sub forty or sub thirty hour.
Speaker 5 (31:40):
Absolutely love to do that. I asked his opinion. I'm like,
do you reckon I could do it. He's like, yeah,
I reckon he could do it.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
And it's not about a run either. It's about just
being able to hold a consistent pace, so knowing your
heart rates and just sitting on that. Who knows, I
just might make a comeback for that.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
So any advice that you would give to people that
are training for Kakoda man.
Speaker 5 (32:03):
Don't skip the training, like don't just go for a
walk on flat land, or don't just ride your bike
or actually properly look up a training program and do it.
And you've got one. We have one. Yeah, so train legs,
walk downhill, get your cardio really really good, because you're
(32:24):
going to need your legs in your cardio.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
And your recovery. That gives you a recovery. Yeah, so
we're going to We've made a bit of a commitment.
We don't do a lot on our social media except
when we're on tracks, and so I've been writing a
social media plan for those listening. And one of the
things we're going to do, I'll go to two things,
talk a lot more about the history because you may
not track with us. I wish you would, but you
might already be listening to this after your book with someone.
I'm also going to start to add in with Millie
(32:47):
some maybe weekly or something. Just a training tip, one
little thing. Obviously we can't give you a whole program
on Instagram, but we have access to like a full
eight week program. You just go to Adventure Professional dot
com dot or you and it pops up immediately for you.
But we'll just start to put little tips in how
to look after your knees. A lot of people they
skip core, they skip up a body because they think
(33:08):
it's all legs. Weird. Legs are important, but when you
lose structure through your core, you lower back your tummy
and your shoulders and you start to that affects how
you breathe.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
And you've got to carry a pack. You know, you
have a porter, but you still carrying a.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Pack and it's still hard. And the other mistake people make,
in my opinion, and I experienced this on the second
Antiic trip this year, is they get a personal porter
and then they still overload their own pack. And so
now they've got a porters pack and they've got a
personal pack. Their personal pack's way too heavy. The porter
can't take any more gear, and you go. The whole
person getting a porter is not to bring more stuff
onto the track. It's to well, it helps employ the locals,
(33:43):
but to make it a little bit easier for you. Yeah,
so I'm going to make coming over next year from
one hundredth and Michael and he's bringing his son and
he said, I'm going to get a porter, and he
had to justify it, and he because I'm not as
fit as I was when we did last time. And
I like, bro, that was twenty two years ago. None
of us as fit as we were twenty two years ago.
You don't have to justify getting a porter. My experience
(34:04):
is that people get it. I feel bad if I
have to use a porter. No one cares. And you're
employing the locals. All that money goes to them anyway.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
They love it. They're here for it, very proud of
it their work.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
You know, you're employing somebody, they get to show you
how proud of their culture, how fit they are. They
get to do a little showcase on themselves as well.
And yeah, so don't feel bad.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Was there anything that stood out for you in particular
from the boys side or from the trekker's side on
the trip. What's a highlight for you of the trip? Sorry,
before we had a cracking group, so that was just
that's luck. Sometimes we had a really really good group.
But yeah, what was a highlight of something? One or
two things that stood out.
Speaker 5 (34:45):
It's always going to be watching my home, you know,
my countrymen in their home. That's always going to be
a highlight for me. And then another highlight for me,
which even though even on trips where I've come and
picked up the porters at the end and I haven't walked,
it's always a highlight for me listening to other people
experience that as well.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
So do you feel I feel like I know the
answer this, but do you feel a sense of pride
when you watch how the boys operate and you see
by the end how much people respect them?
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Yeah, one hundred percent. That's one of my favorite things.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
And we get to have that dinner and talk about
all of that.
Speaker 5 (35:21):
I love that dinner, you know, Like I said at
the start, you know, I've come on trips at home
where I've gone to Milon Bay while you've walked the track,
and then I've come back and met you guys at
the end of it, and then we go to the
hotel and we have dinner and everyone stands up and
they say their peace, and I absolutely live for that
bit of the trip.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I want to take you back to one more moment
to finish off. We're on Brigade Hill, and because you're
you know, this is our company, so this company is
owned by us, and so you are looking after the
trekkers as much as having your own experience. And when
we line up, we get everyone in a semicircle up
on Brigadehill and the boys standing behind. And the reason
I do that is because they're such good singers, but
(35:58):
they can get a bit shy if everyone's looking at them,
and so particularly in the daylight. So I just say
to people, don't turn around, just absorb the national anthem stuff.
And you, I feel like you're a little bit confused
about where you should be. Should I be with the
clients the trekkers, and you were standing sort of there
but one step back, and I just went up and said,
how you stand with the boys? Yeah, because you wanted
to sing that national anthem. Describe that feeling to me
(36:21):
singing the national anthem with the boys.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
It was so powerful and it was emotional, and I
took a video. I was just holding my phone and
filming while we were singing, and I obviously wasn't going
to put it in their faces like the filming, but yeah,
I just really wanted like a memory of that. But
I can't even watch that back because of me. You
(36:43):
just crying. So I was trying to sing, but then
my voice would shake and I'd start crying.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
And yeah, I do. I love our national anthem.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
It's amazing.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
Yeah, and yeah, it always takes me back to my childhood.
And yeah, because you sing your national anthem a lot
when you're in school and stuff, so.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
You've got a beautiful voice. And I put that down
to the boys too. They harmonize really well because they sing.
They're a culture that sings, and were through church or
whatever their reasons, but it was nice to hear that
female voice added to them. To be honest, for those wondering. Obviously,
when you listen to the intros and exit of this podcast,
that's literally footage taken on Brigade Hill of our boys singing,
(37:24):
and that was for a documentary, so you get to
hear it every time you listen to this podcast, but
there's still something extra special about experiencing it in real time.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
So any final thoughts as we signed off on our
Coacoda track podcast.
Speaker 5 (37:38):
Everyone should do it. Everyone should do it. You know,
it's it was such a beautiful experience. I can't wait
to do it. Again, I'm so glad that I did
it finally.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Yeah, if anyone wants to follow along, obviously my Instagram
at Glenees Milli's is at What's Yours Millie.
Speaker 5 (37:56):
Mayhem, Mine's Millie Maysel m I L I M A
Y s A U L good. But if you look
at Millie Mayhem you'll find me and.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Then adventure professionals obviously you look those up. If you've
got any questions for us, if there's things you'd like
us to cover on the podcast, if you would like
to come on the podcast, even if you haven't checked
with us, please reach out for just DMA through those
myself merely or adventure professionals. And you know it's hard
to find time, but we will find the time to
sit down and do a podcast.
Speaker 6 (38:21):
Thanks Bill, thank you, Less Harms, Racing Bend and visits.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
And the bond between Ossie's and the people of Papu
and New Guinea was forged in war and it endures
in peace. We've felt that friendliness, that special connection in
(39:00):
the comforting presence of our porters and in every small
community of the Kakoda track.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
WHOA Okay, guys, thanks for tuning in. It would be
(39:28):
awesome if you'd share this with anyone you know that's
going to the Kakoda Track or that has been and
has a keen interest in the track. It's people and
those that choose to track it. The Pillars of is
Sharaba say, courage, endurance, makeship and sacrifice great words to
live by, and this podcast will offer makeshift and a
place for those that live and love the Cocda Track
experience until next episode, live a life that inspires you
(39:50):
and those around you, and remember to take time out
to think about what's really important, what's really important?
Speaker 4 (39:55):
What's really important?
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Thanks fellowstak to look at Coda Track podcast. To get
it touched or stay up to date, go to Kakoda
Track Podcast on Facebook or email Glen at Adventure Professionals
dot com dol A. You don't forget to subscribe and
share with your friends. Let's keep the spirit and the
stories of Kakoda and the P and G people alive.
A Podjay production. This podcast is proudly brought to you
by Adventure Professionals www dot Adventure Professionals dot com dot
au for.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Me, Mission Ridge and Brigade Hill. The whole Kakoda campaign
more people need to know about it, or know everyone
knows someone who's trek Kakoda, but to actually understand the
stories of what these young guys did, it's harrowing what
they went through.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
They were staunched to the end against odds uncountered, and
they fell with their faces to the.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Welcome to the Kakoda Track Podcast. Hosted by former soulject
Glen Asa. This is the place to hear stories from
those who've trecked Kakoda and gained tips and knowledge about
what to expect on the track, or to relive your
own amazing experiences. The Kakoda Track Podcast keeping the spirit
of Kakoda alone.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Hey everyone, Welcome back to the Kokoda Track Podcast. Now
I haven't done an interview for a little while with
someone that's trek Kakoda, and this week, I guess it's
a little bit exciting because I get to introduce my partner,
Millie Saul.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
How are you excellent?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
If anyone that doesn't know. Millie was born and bred
in PNG, so she's a mil And Bay girl. And
we've been traveling back to New Guinea for the last
couple of years together. And she is the current pup
New Guinea in fifty seven kilo national boxing champion and
she'll go down to fifty four kilo soon and she's
a very good chance, we believe, of representing P and
G at the comwork game. So you've got a deep
(01:42):
connection to the country. For me being able to take
you on this experience, I don't know, like it meant
a lot to me because when we first met, I
said to you, like, how long since you've been home?
And that was after COVID and all that sor of stuff.
You hadn't been over for eight years, and so I
remember saying, that's crazy, you got to go home, and
I was going home more than you at that stage,
(02:03):
very jealous of Yeah. So before we talk about having
your first Kakoda experience, which the reason it didn't happen
soon was because you did an ACL injury, But I
want to talk about the first few times we went home,
Like I noticed the changing you immediately once you got connected.
I remember before we went home, and if you don't
mind me sharing, We're driving one time and you just
started getting really teary and I said, what's wrong, and
(02:24):
you said, I just want to go home. So now
we've got to do that. A lot taught me through
all of that, that firstly year of going home together.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Like home is such a powerful word. I want to
get emotional.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Now you're allowed to.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
Yeah, it really is, because that was it is you
genuinely feel in your heart that you're home, like you're
where you're supposed to be. Yeah, it was beautiful. It
really was seeing all my family and my friends and
the people who I grew up with. And then I
looked back and I was like, damn it, it has been
(03:01):
eight years. Like that's almost a decade. That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
It's too long. And we got to go. You took
me to Milbay and we got to go and see
your dad's grave. Yeah, which again you know, with dad
being buried there and you know, being a PNG national,
it's a shame that you hadn't got to do that
in the eight years. And we talked a little bit
about that, and I don't want to go too deeply
into it, but you've been in relationships in the past
(03:27):
before you and I with people that thought buying your
holidays or handbags, all these things, whereas a trip home
would have been to me far more powerful.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
Man with some of the things that I have been bought.
And this is not trying to sound ungrateful or anything
like that, but you know that's a ticket home.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
You said that to me, Like that handbag I could
have went home.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
I don't even use it, you know what I mean,
It's not my style. It's just Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So we went home, and I noticed everything that changes
about you. Your accent goes back to more P and
G because the longer you're in Australia, more that sticks.
But when you were around P and G, people like
just feel you go back to your natural state.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
Yeah, and that's pretty the accent that I grew up with,
you know, the way that my family and friends will
understand me, you.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Know, and getting to speak language. I love listening to
you speak language. So your first few Kakoda experiences weren't
on cocoda because you had nacy heal injury. But you
would come over with me and then you'd go home
while I'd go out in the track, and then you
come back at the end and you got to meet
trekkers before and after. What were you noticing back then
on your first few experiences before you got to trek
(04:36):
it yourself.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
Well, I love the dinners at the end, So we
used to listen to all the trekkers and you know,
tell us their version of how what they took away
from the track, and I just sit there going, god,
I really want to do this walk. I really don't
want to do this walk, but my knee wasn't ready.
And but yeah, the way that people really embrace the country,
(04:59):
and regardless of how hard that they work for eight
days walking, the thing that they took out of it
is how much they love the people and the villagers
and the borders and the country. And yeah, so it
was really nice to hear.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Obviously, you know, I've got a close affinity with the
country and I've been traveling there for years. But what
was it like to experience, I guess me for the
first time over there, because this is different to me
being your partner here or your boxing coach, or this
is me being in your country. Now.
Speaker 5 (05:29):
Yeah, well I remember the first time, even not walking
the track, I saw how amazing you treat the people.
And I have said this before. You know, it's refreshing
to see a big white man in a third world
country and not walking there and trying to just own
it and emboss everybody around and thinking that they're lesser
than them, and because it happens quite a lot, so
(05:49):
it was really really nice to see. And then now
that you're my partner, it's even it's even better.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
So all right, let's talk a bit about this actual trek.
And what I've done is I wanted to I was
sandingly before we started this. I always asked the same
questions of people on coder, so I always ask about,
you know, how they found it, what surprised them, what
gear do they wish they'd taken, What gear did they
take that they didn't end up using. We normally talk
(06:15):
through all of that stuff their training programs. I think
that's a bit unfair because Millie is a professional athlete, so.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
We don't struggle on downhill, so I will say that.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
But what I did want to ask, and I cheated,
and I use chat GBT to help me with some
questions I wanted to find out from the point of
view of a pup. New Guinea National who's been living
in Australia for a few years now, but you know,
largely grow up through your most formative years in PNG.
That is your home still and you'll always referred to
it his home and as much as you love Australia
and the boys are born here, Australia as your second home.
(06:47):
And so I wanted to know as a PNG national
going back and then being a part of understanding what
Kakoda was about, because my experience is a lot of
P and G nationals don't understand the significance of Kakoda
on an international level. So all these questions are kind
of formulated around getting to know a side of Trekking
Kokoda that we don't always get to ask just Aussies
(07:07):
to trek Cocoda. Yeah, and I hope for those of
you listening it gives you some insights from the other side.
And I'm very passionate about how we treat our porters
and the boys and Killer and his team and the
locals and villages. And I'll hold that standard and not
all trekking companies do. I'm not bagging them out, but
that's just a fact. They're not slaves. They're not here.
You know, just to make up the numbers for us.
(07:29):
Most people that I've taken on Kokoda could not treck
the whole thing on their own if they had to
carry all their own gears, set up the tens and
do the stuff.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
So most people want most Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
And so I want you to experience from the PNG side.
You know what that means. So first question was what
did it mean to you as someone born in pup
new getting to walk Kakoda.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
Well, we grew up not knowing much about the Kokoda track,
very general knowledge, and I remember first hearing about it,
and I wanted to do it because I thought it
would be a tough thing to do and I always
like to challenge myself. So that was when I was
a kid. That's that's how I felt about it. Was
not until growing up and learning the full history and
you know how the fuzzy Wuzzy Angels helped, how much
(08:12):
they were involved and yeah, so yeah, it was really
good to learn that side of things.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
So so the second question kind of ties into what
we talked about before and when we made your emotional
to return into your country, how did it feel to
return to the land of your birth? But seeing it
through the eyes of a trekker because obviously you spent
a lot of time with the boys when we were
on Brigade Hill. You stood in seeing your national anthem
(08:39):
with the boys, of course, but also you know, spending
so much time in Australia, now you got to experience
this from the trekker's point of view as well, so
you get to witness how they treat not just our groups,
other groups, how they treat the locals. You know, what
their experience is. But it's still your home.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
Yeah, yeah, like it was through the eyes of a treker.
I guess you could say, you know, how absolutely amazing
the porter and the boys are, you know, walking over
that truck like it's nothing. It's wild how they do
that with no shoes sometimes. And you know I was
a trekker, so they were carrying my big pack. You know,
it wasn't like I was doing all of that like
(09:18):
like they do.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I think you could have too, but we were prepping
for a fight.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Yeah, so we didn't want to do too much.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
We need to look after your body a little bit.
You're fighting only weeks later.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
Yeah, but then returning home and then realizing, you know,
the long drops and so looking at that from a
trek is point of you when I haven't had it,
had to use a long drop or a natural shower
in so long like that was obviously it took me
back as well.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
But they feel good.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Yeah. I love the natural showers, I really do. Yeah,
or washing in the river, that's just my thing. I
missed that so much about home.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Did walk in Kakota deepen your connection to PNG? And
I find that an interesting question because you've had such
a deep connection. Our whole house is built around P ANDNG.
But more importantly, did it shift how you see the
cultural identity? And I guess the question there is a
lot of people PNG people don't they know trekkers come
over and trek. They know there's money being made through that,
(10:12):
you know, from both the PNG in Australians, but they
probably don't fully understand the cultural connection and how internationally
important it was. So did it help connect you in
some way to the story of Kakata?
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Yeah? For sure.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
It reminded me of how helpful and hospitable our people are.
And yeah, it just reminded me of you know, how
good our people are really.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
So, Yeah, what does the story mean to you as
a partner in Guineon and can I preface this by
I didn't work with the Hunters years ago, and I
got up and talked to them about building and for
those who don't know, the Hunters are a Queensland Cup
rugby League team and which is one under the NRL,
and I was trying to connect them with their story
the way the All Blacks connect. They're not all Maltis
(10:58):
in the All Blacks, but they connect with the New
Zealand story really well as their purpose and I wanted
to help, you know, the Hunter's out, so not everyone's
from the Kakoda Track area, but I wanted to explain
that side of it, and they loved it. They really
boored into it. Hard to say that we're a warrior
nation and so we should perform as a warrior nation so.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
Also together, you know, helping each other, and yeah, well
on that.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
What does it feel like to hear the term fuzzy
wuzzy angels on the track because there's a real legacy
to that and I've had social media posts where people go, oh,
that's racist, but I know my boys on the track,
you know.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Ivan and racist because of the hair.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Because I think because the term comes from just the
way their hair was back then. Obviously they had the big,
fuzzy wuzzy hair.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
As opposed to the boys will call the boys will
say white person. So they just call it how it is,
so no one's getting offendeds It's all good.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
How different aren't they? Like I remember years ago just
talking to the boys and they were talking about two
white people or two trekkers, and one was a bit
bigger than the other, and you couldn't say that in Australia,
but they were talking about someone and one of them
to which one underneath it or the fat one?
Speaker 4 (12:06):
And he's trying to know.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
He's just saying there's one that's bigger than the other.
And that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, He's not trying to offend anybody. He's
just they're very literal people. So when I hear fuzzy
wizy angels, it doesn't you know, it's not offensive or
it actually makes me feel proud, you know.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
That's the way they were described.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
And then you could also look at the positive like
angels like they helped they were.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
There were there moments on the track when I'm talking
through the history where because you've spent a lot of
time in Australia as well. Now, was there a moments
where that you felt those two histories intertwined and you
had a better understanding because you've come from p and
g Yes and living in Australia.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
Yeah, for sure, you explained the history so well. And
you know, like I said, when I was young, I
only wanted to do it because I thought it would
be a challenge. And then as I got older, I
learned a little bit more, and then on the track,
I learned a hell of a lot more because of
the way that you tell it and how experienced you are,
and so it definitely intertwines, you know, it's it's a
beautiful experience.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
When people talk about Kakoda, there's a lot of onus
on Australians. It was the first defeat the Japanese had
in a land battle, and we were heavily outnumbered four
thousand Australians verse twenty four and a half thousand Japanese
throughout the whole campaign. Not enough owners is put on
the fifteen thousand papuins. Without them, there's no way they
could have won this. And so for me, I like
(13:28):
to make sure that that history gets told as accurately
as we know it. Because the fifteen thousand pupuns allowed
us not to have to carry our food, our ammunition
now wounded, so our four thousand fighters could fight. The
Japanese didn't have the Pupinins on their side. Very early
on the Pupuins left them for you know, there's a
whole stories behind that. But they had to carry all
their own gear, so whilst they out numbered us, they've
(13:49):
also had to do a lot more work and we
could just fight, So that side it's pretty important. I
think it's the most significant international thing as far as
you know. This is a world war and pup New
Guinea played a massive role in that, and I wish
we could somehow teach all of them that they should
all be proud of it. It's not just because you're
not from that land. You had to be from Oro
Province to know everyone should be proud of them. Mill
(14:10):
Bay has its own history, obviously, and we're looking at
for those listening putting together some tools of mil Bay,
which is where Millie's from, because there's significant history there too.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
Yeah you're just driving around, there's all, you know, stuff
from the wall that they've left and made memorials of.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
And so leaving P and G and coming to Australia,
I'm sure it was very exciting at the time because
you were in high school. But I also feel like
there's pieces of you that and tell me if I'm wrong,
but that regret or miss or feel disconnected in some
ways for some years from your country by not getting
to go home.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
Yeah, especially since I had kids, I really do wish
that I taught them how to speak pigeon And yeah
it's hard now because they know English so well, but
I really do just and that's their cousins sort of
that not me.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
So so then the next question is did walk in
Kakoda help you reconcile your journey of leaving Australia, sorry,
leaving PNG and coming to Australia. By going back, you've
got an identity in both countries. Now, do you feel
like now that you've been traveling back there, it's helped
you reconcile your own journey and so I think.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
So, yeah, it's very grounding going home and yeah, just
it's like that word, it's home.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
So and you get to impart your knowledge that as
much as I've been there. I can't have the knowledge
that you have right of the country. So we'll often
talk to trackers about stuff, but you can give so
much more depth. And the boys sometimes struggle because they're
English isn't always great. They can't find the words to
say the thing, and they just try and get out
of the conversation. But you can stay in it and
(15:46):
give people a better understanding.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
Yeah, And actually, you know when you listen to the
boys when they're cooking or when they're setting up the tents,
and I love the fact that I know what they're
saying most of the time, because sometimes when they don't
want me to know what they're saying, they speak more
to and I don't know how to understand.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
What your dad's puke more to you.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
See, my dad spoke quite a few languages.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, it's funny when we have if you ever get
a word wrong in English, which is rare, but and
I'll make fun of you because that's that's what partners do.
And you'll go, how many languages do you speak? Clods
of thea this is my sec my first language. What
did the land itself say to you? Through the villages,
(16:23):
through the rivers, through you know like this is. I
know it's a different part of the country, but it
must have felt very similar to your life in the
village when you were younger.
Speaker 5 (16:32):
It did, and I know I keep saying it, but honestly,
it said welcome home because I spent If you've listened
to other podcasters that we've done together, you know I
spent a few years living village love. So we washed
in the river and we walked to get water, and
you know, we had no shoes and we lived at
a heart.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
But we weren't poor. That was just that's what people
get wrong. They look at that in the villages and
they think they're poor, and we think we need to
pour all these Western resources into them to make them
more Western eyes. And you know, we have anxiety and
depression and all of these things that happen in Western society.
Even though we have all this stuff.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
There was always there was always someone to help us
if we need it, or give us food or whatever
it was. And you know, when you're walking through the villages,
you see you see that, you see the huts, you
see the rivers, you see the villages, you see the people,
and it's just like I'm home.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
For those people that haven't tecked yet, and a lot
of people listen to this show with the intention of treking.
That's why they listened initially. What would you hope that
they understood better about Puppy ner Guinea.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
Don't just look at the news and what you see
on socials about PNG. And you know, because every single
person who says, oh, you're from PG, isn't it dangerous?
And it's just yeah, don't walk around thinking you'll be
You'll be fine.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
But PNG is.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
A beautiful, hospitable, welcoming, amazing country if you get out
of the main cities and go into the villages like
like the we do on the Cokoda Track.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
And I always say to people that when you have
a center like Port Moresby, that's last that I checked
with seventy percent unemployment, you can put that unemployment anywhere
and you're going to have problems because people are trying
to survive. And if we wanted to help solve problems
in p and G, it would be through better work opportunities,
employment and education opportunities in those centers. But out in
(18:28):
the villages, I think just leave them alone. Healthcare and
phone access, so the two things they really want other
than that. Leave them alone. They're getting it right when
COVID happened, and they grow their own food, They've got
all their water that they need, and they live with
two and three generations all living together. They didn't need anything.
If the whole world disappeared during COVID, people out in
(18:50):
the villages of Partment of Guinea would have been the
only one surviving. Not in Africa, not in other countries
I've been where they've now become so westernized and as
western as we think we've got it nailed, and we
have not, because you watch people panic over toilet paper here,
people who are fighting over milk and eggs and flour. Yeah,
we had a cyclone that didn't really happen, you know,
a couple of months back when we were coming home
(19:12):
from Canada and we got home as that was supposed
to be happening, and the shops were cleared out. You
couldn't buy food.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
And that's that's another thing.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
Everyone in Papen Neguin is so willing to give, and
so you know, if you're down on something, you know
someone's going to give you something. And so if you're
not going to go to the garden and there'll be
one last you know, plant left and someone's not going
to share that with you. Whereas here you go to
the supermarket and there's one cut and of eggs left,
you're probably going to get into a fight for that
(19:38):
cuton of eggs, you know.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
You know.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
So people will give or you'll see it often. Two
boys walking around and not one of them's got no shoes,
and the other person gives them one of their thongs
and they're wearing one for on one thng, like it's just.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Rather than have a pair and you have none. Yeah,
I've bought new shoes for boys of mine over there before,
and we're walking every year of buying a new pair
of these specific shoeses like this Salomon Runners. They're blue
and yellow. That's the cut. I don't know why. But
and then we were walking and he wasn't wearing them,
and I said, you're not wearing a new shoes and
he said, now, my dad said he needed some shoes,
so he gave them to it a lot of people
(20:12):
would have given the old shoes if someone needed it,
because I've just got new ones. I here, you can
have my old ones now. He gave his new ones
in a brand new box, knowing full well that he
wasn't going to get a new sept for another year. Yeah,
and hey, if you need it, if you ask people
as trekkers, if you ask people over there for things,
they will go and find it and sort it out
for it. Even if they needed it, they'll take it
off their own back. So I think we can learn
a lot in that sense. How do we better share
(20:37):
the pup unigin inside of our story? Like I think
I personally do it well, and I'm not just saying that,
but I do, and I know you've seen that. But
for people in general, and I'll give you my opinion
on this in a second, But how do you think
we better share the P and G side.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
On Cocoda?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
You mean just about their part in Kokoda in particular,
and make sure you.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
Do your research and get reviews on who you go with, like,
because there's all sorts of different people who we'll share
it differently.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
And Lug you just said you do it very well.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
You do it very respectfully, very truthfully, and the way that,
in my opinion, it should be done. There's no amount
of that track or even watching you with your track
is even if I haven't walked. Do I find that
you are belittling or condescending towards our people? And some
people are, and so do your research.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
So yeah, And I've watched that sadly where the way
some people treat them and I'm not a fan of
that in any country but certainly in PNG. But for me,
I'll pull trek is up and I will let them
know in advance if you're going to do something that's
going to be against the cultural norms, I'm going to
let you know because they won't always. And a key
one for me and for people listening if you're planning
on going, is for girls wearing really short shorts like
(21:51):
bummer shorts and stuff, which in Australia totally cool, that's
a thing, But in Pannge they don't like that and
they take it quite personally and they feel like it's
pushing against their religion, mostly Seventh Day of Venice. But
they'll very rarely say something.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
They won't they won't say anything.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
And I've had like killo, who's my head guide? And
you know, but people have heard about as well. I've
hadn't come up and say to me, oh, you know, boss,
would you mind talking to them about that. And yet
I've been in campsites where not my trekkers, because I
would tell my trekkers where they're running around in you know,
g string swimmers and stuff, which again in Australia, fine,
(22:27):
and no one's saying anything and they're not my trekkers.
And I think, well, you should be letting people know
that when you go into someone else's country. I don't
care what country is, you need to play by their rules,
whether you like them or not. And the fact that
we're not telling you you can't have your freedom as
a woman. It's just that there goes against their beliefs.
Look at what their people are doing. It's the same.
And for men, the other side of that is ossie men,
(22:51):
particularly in the jungle, think that they can just pee
on the nearest tree or you know, I've had blokes
get their kit fully off when I've had all men's
trips and hang on, there's women and children in this village.
You wouldn't stand in the middle of Bridson with your
pants off because you think you these people don't matter.
You just wouldn't do that. And so you just have
to let people know to have a little bit of
modesty around that stuff. And that's just one of the
(23:13):
cultural norms. The other one is particklar Out in the villagers,
they don't swear a lot. You'll notice, Yeah, and Ozzie
swear a lot. The f and the sea bomb comes
out and I just say to be hey, that's not cool.
If you listen to them, they're not talking like that,
and they're very very respectful people. The only time you
really hear a lot of language in p And is drinking,
you know, import ware zoo, when people get a few
(23:34):
drinks under their belt. And I guess that's anywhere, but
out in the villages you very rarely.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yeh.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I've literally never heard my boys swear, and we do
it all the time in Australia. So just their little
cultural things that if you're conscious of you can be
more respectful of the local people. Don't just say I
couldn't have done it with animal than the most beautiful people.
Actually respect them.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Yeah, that's really And also you know, don't just bossom
around like they're your slaves, Like, yeah, you got to
ask them respectfully how you would ask any other human
being if they can do something.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
For because they will do it.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
They will do it and they'll go out of their
way to do it. In fact, most of the time
I found that they anticipate you, so you don't even
have to ask, and they'll go and do the thing
that you needed, whether it's hold your backpack, whether it's
make sure you don't slip, whether it's your water's empty,
I'm going to go and fill it up, you know.
So most of the time they're really amazing and they
do anticipate you. But if you need something done, just
(24:26):
ask nicely.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Being from P and G, I know there were times
where and you're very independent, like you get your word
while and want to go and do it yourself, and
the boys over it and pop up and grab it.
You don't know I can do it, and I'll say,
just let him do it.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
Yeah, And they do love doing it. And I don't
want to take that away from them, or you know,
make them make them feel like I'm not doing that,
they're not doing their job or what they're here for
or whatever. But I don't know, I just I don't
want anyone to go out of their way for me.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
It's hard.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Do you want to do more?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (24:55):
I want to do as many as I can.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
So my one hundredth is next. The second insect trip next,
you'll be more one hundredth Obviously we'll do that one
together because it has to fit in around boxing and
kids and everything else. But we'll definitely do that one together.
Where do you see yourself adding more value into what
we do as a business now?
Speaker 5 (25:16):
Just coming from my background, do you know? So you
know I can translate for people, I can tell them
about our land. I can probably be that person who says, hey,
this is culturally unacceptable because I know and you know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
You find the boys accepted you really.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
Well, yeah, they really did, you know.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And so I always sleep with the boys, like in
the huts and stuff. And I don't advise that for
everyone because malaria is a thing over there, and I
think if you're over there one time, you probably want
to try and protect yourself from that as best you can.
But for me, I sleep in the grass huts, and
obviously you slept in there with me, and the boys
are really good with all of that. And I remember
last year, I think I took a photo in one
of the grass huts the fire burning inside, you know,
(25:59):
literally just banana leaves on the ground, and I sent
it to you when I got back, and you're like,
I want to do that, and so now we're getting
to do that. But you're also you know, you're you're
an Aussie in a lot of ways too, right, So
you're a successful businesswoman, You're very successful in everything that
you athletically, and you like the finer things in life.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
Yeah I do. I do. I love a good, good
long lunch.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, we love we love her find and we love
all of that. So then but when we go to PNG,
I see you. I definitely see you change the way
you dress to do the right thing by your country,
the way you operate, the way you do things, and
you just go back to being that person as well.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
I love that, you know I can do both. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Now I'll ask some standard questions that I normally ask
people on Kokoda. Was there any day that you found
particularly hard, or any section of the track, even as
an athlete, that you found more difficult, or was there
anything that surprised you about the track?
Speaker 5 (26:56):
Probably not surprised, just because I've listened and I've watched
your videos and you talk about it a lot, and yeah,
so I sort of knew what I was getting into.
Surprised by myself is the downhill was really really tough
on me. So yeah, every time you do a briefing
in the morning and you'd say that we've got this
(27:17):
much time of going downhill for this day, I'm like,
oh God. And I tried to not let it show,
obviously because I didn't want to be that person. But
going downhill was really hard for me. Going uphill was amazing.
I absolutely love going. Man, it's a challenge for me.
I love a challenge. I love like when your heart's
beating through your chest and you, yeah, you just tell
(27:40):
yourself you've got to keep going.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
So that downhill probably to be fair for people listening,
I think would be based off the acl still I.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
Think so, yeah, because it was It's just obviously you
were just going down and you're catching yourself on your
knee with every single step, and then it was slippery,
so you had to go a little bit slower. It was,
and you had to go slower than I would have liked.
And I like to go a little bit quicker when
I do things, and so we're going really slow, making
sure and then usually if you're walking downhill and you
(28:08):
hurt a little bit, like when we're doing heel sprints
and we'll turn and face backwards and you walk backwards
downhill just to give a pressure off. You can't do
that because you might trip over something. You have to
have your eyes on, and then the fact that you're
looking down for all of this time and your neck hurt.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And yeah, so then on the uphill we did we
do a little uphill race. We call it a self
paced event.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
We just race.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
We let people just go. And you took off. You
were feeling a bit fluy that day and I said,
and like eight or so people that headed off up
the hill and I said, don't race it just because
you're not feeling understeing. You said, no, I'm racing. And
you did it in under twenty two minutes.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I overtook pretty much everyone that had left before you
by one. And that was in the wet. So I'm
interested to see, one, how are you going to dry
because you'll probably hit some twenty minutes, But also what
did that feel like? That is a hard hell?
Speaker 4 (29:00):
It was a hard heel.
Speaker 5 (29:01):
Yeah, But you know, you're just telling yourself inside you
got to keep going, to keep going, to keep going,
go to keep going. And I am very competitive as
you know, so there's no way I was stopping on
that hill.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
I feel that the boys are pretty impressed with you. Yeah,
you are one of their own, and they liked that
and they love speaking to you in language I noticed,
and they really accepted that, and then they wanted to
see you do well.
Speaker 5 (29:23):
I think, yeah, well crazy, because I've an Iceman, my porter.
He said to me when we're walking up the hill,
he goes, Miller, you go and I'll come up soon.
And I said, how are you going to just chill?
And he said, yeah, I just got a few things
to do, I'll come up. And I was like okay.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
So I was like off, I'm like, I'm not waiting
for anybody. I'm going. So I kept going.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
I kept going, and I lost him for arakon between
ten to fifteen minutes, really closer to the fifteen minute mark,
and then I hear these footsteps behind me and I
was like, oh my god, someone's going to come and
overtake me, and like my heart starts racing even more
than I already was. And then I turned around and
icemand's just there and.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
I was like, where did you come from? And then
he just goes. I caught up.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
I love it understated how he said, Iceman that you
or something?
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (30:10):
Is that you? And he's like yeah, And I was like,
where did your coveres that I caught up?
Speaker 4 (30:14):
I was like, what, They're so crazy? How they do that?
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Hey?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
A friend of mine who I did a podcast with
years ago, Ricky. He did the track I can't remember now,
under forty hours, maybe under thirty. But he had organized
happ one of the porters, you know, to do like
an eight hour stint and so on, and Iceman. This
Iceman was a fair bit younger but still crazy fit,
and he went with him and he stayed with him
the whole way. And the interesting thing is that, and
(30:39):
this is no disrespect to you, Ricky, if you're listening,
Ricky was very pumped and excited. He got media over
here about what he did. And yet Iceman did it
with no training. He sat right beside him, easily could
have overtaken him at any stage. And it kind of
reminds me of Tending Norgay. He was the sherpa who
first climbed Man Evers. So the first human to stand
on top of Mount Everest was not Sir Edmundhillary. It
(31:01):
was one of the Sherpers and they hadn't done it
before either. But back in the original sort of in
the fifty sixty, seventies and eighties, even maybe through the nineties,
you never heard his name. He was always it was
always Emilori. And well it was kind of like that, like,
you know, Ricky's getting all these accolades and he raised money,
good money for veterans charities and all, but you think, well,
I haven't did it too. And his initial plan was
(31:22):
just to do eight hours with you, and he's just
been a this pace is or I will just stay
with you.
Speaker 5 (31:27):
So I would love to challenge myself and see how
fast I could do it, even if we could do
it for a fundraiser or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
It's June July next year. If we could fit it
into your fight schedule, we will try and do for
you a sub forty or sub thirty hour.
Speaker 5 (31:40):
Absolutely love to do that. I asked his opinion. I'm like,
do you reckon I could do it. He's like, yeah,
I reckon he could do it.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
And it's not about a run either. It's about just
being able to hold a consistent pace, so knowing your
heart rates and just sitting on that. Who knows, I
just might make a comeback for that.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
So any advice that you would give to people that
are training for Kakoda man.
Speaker 5 (32:03):
Don't skip the training, like don't just go for a
walk on flat land, or don't just ride your bike
or actually properly look up a training program and do it.
And you've got one. We have one. Yeah, so train legs,
walk downhill, get your cardio really really good, because you're
(32:24):
going to need your legs in your cardio.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
And your recovery. That gives you a recovery. Yeah, so
we're going to We've made a bit of a commitment.
We don't do a lot on our social media except
when we're on tracks, and so I've been writing a
social media plan for those listening. And one of the
things we're going to do, I'll go to two things,
talk a lot more about the history because you may
not track with us. I wish you would, but you
might already be listening to this after your book with someone.
I'm also going to start to add in with Millie
(32:47):
some maybe weekly or something. Just a training tip, one
little thing. Obviously we can't give you a whole program
on Instagram, but we have access to like a full
eight week program. You just go to Adventure Professional dot
com dot or you and it pops up immediately for you.
But we'll just start to put little tips in how
to look after your knees. A lot of people they
skip core, they skip up a body because they think
(33:08):
it's all legs. Weird. Legs are important, but when you
lose structure through your core, you lower back your tummy
and your shoulders and you start to that affects how
you breathe.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
And you've got to carry a pack. You know, you
have a porter, but you still carrying a.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Pack and it's still hard. And the other mistake people make,
in my opinion, and I experienced this on the second
Antiic trip this year, is they get a personal porter
and then they still overload their own pack. And so
now they've got a porters pack and they've got a
personal pack. Their personal pack's way too heavy. The porter
can't take any more gear, and you go. The whole
person getting a porter is not to bring more stuff
onto the track. It's to well, it helps employ the locals,
(33:43):
but to make it a little bit easier for you. Yeah,
so I'm going to make coming over next year from
one hundredth and Michael and he's bringing his son and
he said, I'm going to get a porter, and he
had to justify it, and he because I'm not as
fit as I was when we did last time. And
I like, bro, that was twenty two years ago. None
of us as fit as we were twenty two years ago.
You don't have to justify getting a porter. My experience
(34:04):
is that people get it. I feel bad if I
have to use a porter. No one cares. And you're
employing the locals. All that money goes to them anyway.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
They love it. They're here for it, very proud of
it their work.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
You know, you're employing somebody, they get to show you
how proud of their culture, how fit they are. They
get to do a little showcase on themselves as well.
And yeah, so don't feel bad.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Was there anything that stood out for you in particular
from the boys side or from the trekker's side on
the trip. What's a highlight for you of the trip? Sorry,
before we had a cracking group, so that was just
that's luck. Sometimes we had a really really good group.
But yeah, what was a highlight of something? One or
two things that stood out.
Speaker 5 (34:45):
It's always going to be watching my home, you know,
my countrymen in their home. That's always going to be
a highlight for me. And then another highlight for me,
which even though even on trips where I've come and
picked up the porters at the end and I haven't walked,
it's always a highlight for me listening to other people
experience that as well.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
So do you feel I feel like I know the
answer this, but do you feel a sense of pride
when you watch how the boys operate and you see
by the end how much people respect them?
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Yeah, one hundred percent. That's one of my favorite things.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
And we get to have that dinner and talk about
all of that.
Speaker 5 (35:21):
I love that dinner, you know, Like I said at
the start, you know, I've come on trips at home
where I've gone to Milon Bay while you've walked the track,
and then I've come back and met you guys at
the end of it, and then we go to the
hotel and we have dinner and everyone stands up and
they say their peace, and I absolutely live for that
bit of the trip.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I want to take you back to one more moment
to finish off. We're on Brigade Hill, and because you're
you know, this is our company, so this company is
owned by us, and so you are looking after the
trekkers as much as having your own experience. And when
we line up, we get everyone in a semicircle up
on Brigadehill and the boys standing behind. And the reason
I do that is because they're such good singers, but
(35:58):
they can get a bit shy if everyone's looking at them,
and so particularly in the daylight. So I just say
to people, don't turn around, just absorb the national anthem stuff.
And you, I feel like you're a little bit confused
about where you should be. Should I be with the
clients the trekkers, and you were standing sort of there
but one step back, and I just went up and said,
how you stand with the boys? Yeah, because you wanted
to sing that national anthem. Describe that feeling to me
(36:21):
singing the national anthem with the boys.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
It was so powerful and it was emotional, and I
took a video. I was just holding my phone and
filming while we were singing, and I obviously wasn't going
to put it in their faces like the filming, but yeah,
I just really wanted like a memory of that. But
I can't even watch that back because of me. You
(36:43):
just crying. So I was trying to sing, but then
my voice would shake and I'd start crying.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
And yeah, I do. I love our national anthem.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
It's amazing.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
Yeah, and yeah, it always takes me back to my childhood.
And yeah, because you sing your national anthem a lot
when you're in school and stuff, so.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
You've got a beautiful voice. And I put that down
to the boys too. They harmonize really well because they sing.
They're a culture that sings, and were through church or
whatever their reasons, but it was nice to hear that
female voice added to them. To be honest, for those wondering. Obviously,
when you listen to the intros and exit of this podcast,
that's literally footage taken on Brigade Hill of our boys singing,
(37:24):
and that was for a documentary, so you get to
hear it every time you listen to this podcast, but
there's still something extra special about experiencing it in real time.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
So any final thoughts as we signed off on our
Coacoda track podcast.
Speaker 5 (37:38):
Everyone should do it. Everyone should do it. You know,
it's it was such a beautiful experience. I can't wait
to do it. Again, I'm so glad that I did
it finally.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Yeah, if anyone wants to follow along, obviously my Instagram
at Glenees Milli's is at What's Yours Millie.
Speaker 5 (37:56):
Mayhem, Mine's Millie Maysel m I L I M A
Y s A U L good. But if you look
at Millie Mayhem you'll find me and.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Then adventure professionals obviously you look those up. If you've
got any questions for us, if there's things you'd like
us to cover on the podcast, if you would like
to come on the podcast, even if you haven't checked
with us, please reach out for just DMA through those
myself merely or adventure professionals. And you know it's hard
to find time, but we will find the time to
sit down and do a podcast.
Speaker 6 (38:21):
Thanks Bill, thank you, Less Harms, Racing Bend and visits.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
And the bond between Ossie's and the people of Papu
and New Guinea was forged in war and it endures
in peace. We've felt that friendliness, that special connection in
(39:00):
the comforting presence of our porters and in every small
community of the Kakoda track.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
WHOA Okay, guys, thanks for tuning in. It would be
(39:28):
awesome if you'd share this with anyone you know that's
going to the Kakoda Track or that has been and
has a keen interest in the track. It's people and
those that choose to track it. The Pillars of is
Sharaba say, courage, endurance, makeship and sacrifice great words to
live by, and this podcast will offer makeshift and a
place for those that live and love the Cocda Track
experience until next episode, live a life that inspires you
(39:50):
and those around you, and remember to take time out
to think about what's really important, what's really important?
Speaker 4 (39:55):
What's really important?
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Thanks fellowstak to look at Coda Track podcast. To get
it touched or stay up to date, go to Kakoda
Track Podcast on Facebook or email Glen at Adventure Professionals
dot com dol A. You don't forget to subscribe and
share with your friends. Let's keep the spirit and the
stories of Kakoda and the P and G people alive.
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