August 4, 2025 • 40 mins
In this season of MID, we are answering the dilemmas and questions that you, our listeners, have sent us.
This episode is all about our relationship with our faces and what the treatments and tweakments out there are doing to our faces. Our guest is the perfect person to guide us through this minefield: Dr Naomi, a doctor who's been refreshingly honest about her own facial work and runs a clinic offering all kinds of beauty treatments.
The dilemmas that Dr Naomi & Holly tackle in this episode are:
- I am very tempted to fix some of the things that are making me sad when I look in the mirror. How much do anti-aging procedures cost? Can I justify the money?
- I want to get tweaks, but my partner would be so disappointed in me if I did. Is it okay to hide it from my partner?
- My partner is 10 years younger than me, and I look SO much older than him. What are the most effective, not too obvious procedures to "freshen me up"?
You can follow Dr Naomi here and find out more about her clinic work here.
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CREDITS:
Guest: Dr Naomi McCullum
Host: Holly Wainwright
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Senior Producer: Tahli Blackman
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. What's wrong with your face?
That's easy, absolutely nothing. What do you think is wrong
with your face? That's easy too, absolutely everything. My top
lip is disappearing, my eyelids are falling into my eyes,
(00:36):
my eyebrows are thinning, my sun spots are spreading. There's
more baggage under my eyes and under my arms. My
forehead is a game of noughts and crosses. I've got
lines pointing down to my lips. This is you talking
about your faces when I asked you, and of course
me talking about mine. If I was being really honest
sitting here, I'd be like, oh, my neck is drooping.
(00:58):
My chin is a whole depressing right that we can
all find so many faults in ourselves. Well, yes, but
also no, After all, whose fault is it that we
swim in soup? As I like to say of beauty standards,
that really all have one benchmark, and it's youth, young, taught, tight, smooth.
Even it takes the willpower and self resolve of a
(01:21):
busy saint not to ever worry about what time and
age is doing to make our outsides look so different
from the way we feel on the inside. I'm Holly Wainwright,
and I am mid and today I'm putting judgments, and
believe me, I have plenty of them, of course, almost
all directed at myself on the shelf. And I've invited
(01:43):
someone who's in one of the fastest growing industries in
the world. That's the cosmetic treatment industry. These days, it's
usually called esthetics, which is a word I always struggle
to say. But she's in esthetics. What she's seen and
what she would suggest that we all do about that
laundry list of perceived faults that you sent me, Because
we're answering your dilemmas here this season on MID, as
(02:06):
you know, and I'm calling smart women to help to
solve our problems. Remember this advice about your faces is
only relevant if you want to do anything to them,
if you can, if you can afford it, if you're
happy to step into that world and onto that Ferris wheel.
But if you met Dr Naomi, who's called Naomi mccllum,
(02:28):
but she almost always is just called Dr Naomi on
Instagram and everywhere else in real life. You'd have no
idea how old she is, but you would be able
to tell that she's done quite a bit of work
to her face. And she has, and she has absolutely
no shame or shade about it, and nor should she.
It's her business, it's her world. She's obsessed with it.
She sent me because I asked her and she very
(02:49):
politely said yes, sent me a list of all the
things that she's done over the years to herself, because
she says she's been a cosmetic doctor and a cosmetic
patient for twenty five years now. And remember, she wouldn't
describe her approach to all this stuff as moderate or
ordinary or anything but just deep breaths. Listen to this.
(03:09):
This is the list that DoD to Naomi sent me.
Rhinoplasty at least six times. That's a nose job, friends,
Tommy tuck times three, and upper bleff. We're going to
tell you what nupper bluff is. Breast reduction two maybe
three times, LiPo eight times. That's lipos suction including arms, legs, trunk, neck,
most multiple times she says face and neck lift, hair
(03:31):
transplant times two, liplift times three, jaw widening surgery, orthodontic
she says arm lift. She also says every nonsurgical procedure
many times full body freckle and mole removal, a blative laser,
full field and fractionated and of course injectables. Now, Naomi
says that she doesn't have any plans for any more
(03:51):
cosmetic surgery for about seven years. But the thing is,
if that's shocking to you, and of course it is,
and you're like, how are we talking to this person
about like what I would call ordinary and inverted commons people,
which is people who aren't going to go that far.
She runs a clinic that she's been running for a
long time. I'm now in Sydney's fancies and suburbs, and
also one in the city that do all kinds of
(04:14):
beauty treatments. And because she's lived and breed this for
so long and it's her world and she's obsessed with it,
she knows everything about it, and she is refreshingly honest
and non judgmental about it. Obviously, I was like, oh
my god, I'm sitting next to a woman who has
done all kinds of things to herself in terms of
chasing perfection, and I you know, oh god, I use
(04:34):
some fancy serums sometimes have had a bit of laser,
but that's where it stops for me so far. But
she's actually very non judgmental. Of course, there are a
lot of kind of moral and ethical questions that swirl
around in this world, and certainly swirl around in the
world of cosmetic surgery, but that's actually not what we're
here to talk about today. What we're here to talk
about today with Dr Naomi, who knows a lot of
(04:57):
stuff firsthand and as an expert and qualified practitioner, are
the questions that you sent in and she is unflinchingly
honest about it. She's also going to tell you why
you should never take a picture of christ Jenna's new
face into a cosmetic doctor and say I want one
like that. No, Instead, she's going to spill the face
secrets of the brave, the loaded, the just plane curious.
(05:20):
And please note, friends, as we've told you before, and
we've talked about this kind of stuff here in Australia,
we're lucky enough to be bound by pretty strict rules
when it comes to discussing and certainly promoting any specific
cosmetic procedures or health treatments. So if you wonder why
the good doctor is being a little bit vague at times.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
That's why enjoy.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Naomi, thank you so much for joining us today. So
I asked the mid audience. I said, send me your
dilemmas about your face. So no one's telling you that
you need to have dilemmas about your face. But if
you do send me some, do you think I got
a lot or a few?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I think we all know the end.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I think I got a lot. Ton't know. Some of
them are very specific, and some of them have kind
of grouped together because these are the things that the
audience wanted me to ask you as the expert in
this space. So here's the first one. It's juicy. My
dilemma is about money rights hour listener. You're not an accountant,
she means you. You're not an Accountantnomi, but you know
(06:19):
how much all this stuff costs. She means beauty stuff obviously,
and tweakments and so on. And like a lot of women,
I'm very tempted by fixing some of the things that
are making me sad when I look in the mirror.
But I'm not sure that financially I can justify spending
that on my face. Can you give me an idea
of how much the most common anti aging procedures cost
(06:42):
and what women are spending on their faces.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Probably the most common amount that people would spend would
be those who do their upper face wrinkles. So they
treat those and they do that three times a year,
spending about eight hundred. Yeah, that's a really common scenario.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
So eight hundred each time. Yes, yes, right, okay.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
That's very very common. But then you know upwards from
their tens of thousand. For some people want to like
the most into it. People spend Oh, like, who'd hate?
I mean there's people who just come every month for something, yeah,
(07:24):
or even more frequently.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
And do you think is it? One of the things
that people often say is they're like, oh, I might
start with this, but then I'll get to that and
I'll get to that. Is that true?
Speaker 1 (07:34):
It can happen.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It can happen. People can get carried away. Related to this,
someone says, if you could only spend actually this sort
of fit almost fits into what we're talking about. But
if you could only spend between five hundred and one
thousand dollars a year on skin treatments, what would you
spend it on? Could I have two thousand, Okay, let's
(07:57):
give you. Let's double that budget because let's break it.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Up, you know, sure, So I think two thousands a
bit easier for me. I could probably pull it back,
but let's just start it to and go down. I'd
probably we do a wrink all treatment twice a year,
and then I do the rest at home. So I'd
do home peals, I'd get a home led, and I'd
(08:20):
do regular things at home myself. And obviously sunscreen and
that type of thing too.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Is there a line where because I think that one
of the things lots of women around my age are like,
I see, I love a boogie serum, right, I love that.
So I probably spend more than I should on the
promise in a bottle. But there's a point at which
the bottle isn't going to cut it? Am I correct?
And so if I'm spending hundreds of dollars on skincare,
(08:53):
is there an argument that I might be better off
transferring some of that money into other more serious is
the wrong word, but you know, more heavy duty treatments.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So it depends on what you're trying to improve. So
different treatment will treat different things to what skincare will do.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Of course, I guess that's true. So when I say
I just want to generally look young and gorgeous, it's
not in a bottle. Okay, this next one, I want
to get tweaks. But my partner would be so disappointed
in me if I did. Is everything women get done obvious?
Do lots of women manage to hide this stuff from
(09:36):
their partners? Do you think that's okay? Now? I know
you're not a therapist, Naomi, but you must have seen everything.
Tell me about the kind of things that women get
done and try and keep secret. So women hide it
all the time. So they hide the downtime, they hide
the financial aspect, so they'll put it on three cards.
They'll do it while the husband goes away. So, yes,
(09:59):
they hide it because if you're getting certain things done,
it's going to show. Obviously, that's kind of the point.
And the downtime and the downtime. Do you think it's okay?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Which part of it? Hiding it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I guess she's sort of saying, like lots of women.
Do lots of women manage to hide it? And do
you think it's okay that they do?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
What do you think I think people should be in
charge of their own bodies and yeah, and their bodies
are their business as well. I mean, if it was
a really risky procedure, I think it's important to share
that with your partner.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Do you think that it's lessening like in the time
that you've been in this business, do you think that
that kind of stuff, that kind of oh no, what
do you mean, I just had a good night's sleep.
Stuff is fading out.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
There's way less hiding it, so much more transparency.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
You think that's good? Yes, because you know how now
it's very common for say, celebrities to go online and
say I did this. I mean, we have stricter regulations
in this country for people to be able to do that.
But you know, you'll see a celebrity in American celebrity
go online and say I had exactly this, this is
my sir, and this is how much of the stuff
(11:10):
I got blah blah blah. You're a big fan. I
mean you've always marketed your business that way with lots
of transparency.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yes, I think it's an improvement.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Is the problem that people come to you with these
pictures of celebrities and go make me look like that
it's difficult when the patient expectations are too high. Looks
like at the hairdressers, except with your face. Okay, here's
a good one. My partner is ten years younger than me.
We've been together for fifteen years and adore each other.
(11:45):
It's never been a problem. But now I feel like
I'm aging fast and I look so much older than him.
If you could recommend the most effective and not too
obvious procedures that would freshen me up, I would love
to know what you'd choose.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Okay, this lady needs a consultation, So one thing doesn't
suit everybody. Every face is different, and not just the
anatomical part, so we have to follow the medical procedures.
So take your history, do an examination, have a discussion,
get a consent. So from the anatomy point of view,
(12:24):
we're going to look at her and see something very
different to someone else. So for example, she might have
her mid face aged more than the rest of us face,
so we're going to focus on that. She might have
a really beautiful part of a face, like gorgeous eyes,
and we really want to keep them amazing. So everybody's
different anatomically, and everybody has a different risk tolerance, budget
(12:48):
downtime tolerance. So we really have to get into that
with everybody before we make a plan. So it's a
bit hard to give a plan.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeap. So if I was to come to you to
your clinic for the first time and just say, and
I'm not asking you to do a consultation, all that
would be inappropriate, but like, I want to kind of
understand the process.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Okay, I would come.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
In and I might say to you, look, i haven't
been doing anything, but I'm really getting you know, I'm
really feeling I'm aging around my eyes and forehead or
my jowly neck or whatever, and we're going to get
into specific soon. I would see a professional. They would
listen to my concerns. They would say, you could do this, this,
and this is that how it works.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
So we'd first talk about what you were concerned about,
and then we'd just do an anatomical assessment. You've got
you actually have beautiful proportions. Thanks, Yeah, I mean you
really do. So you'd need sort of depending on what
you wanted, but yeah, a global sort of thing. So
because your proportions.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Are say global, you mean, so it means that.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
You're looking at you you're not look nicely evenly proportioned,
and there's not one area that is. It's all looking
nice together. It's all as old as each other. You
probably started out with really nice proportions.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
So yeah, okay, so you'd come in, i'd see a professional.
They would give me a very individual Yes. Now, what
should people watch out for when they're doing that kind
of thing? Because so if I've never done that, what
I'm scared of is a it would be emotionally crushing
because someone's going to sit there with a pen and
tell me all the things that are wrong with my face.
These are my preconceptions. Can you tell me if they're
(14:30):
real or not. B They're obviously going to want to
upsell me because they're going to be like, well, you
could do this for two thousand dollars, or you could
do this for blah blah blah, and that. How do
I know that they've kind of got my best interest
at heart? If you like, So, what should you be
looking for when you're looking for a practitioner?
Speaker 1 (14:47):
So what I think you should do is go in
with your boundaries and then share them. So this is
my budget, this is my concerns, this is my downtime.
This is my risk tolerance. The risk tolerance you really
have to talk about once the practitioner has talked to
you about the risks. So you just said it yourself.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
So risk tolerance you mean in terms of how much
of an operation you might want, like what you're willing
to how far you're willing to go.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yes, so we'll do things where are the risks are temporary,
so a brow droup, a lid bruising, swelling, that type
of thing. Then we'll do a little bit higher risk. Well, well,
catastrophic risks still at a low risk, but they're there.
So things like blindness, necross so quite serious risks and
some people just don't want that, so we'll just that's
(15:38):
so that's ruled out.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
And a good clinician should be honest about that stuff
upfront and honest about that stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Well we're obliged, yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
So they shouldn't be like no, it's nothing, but the
other way really if anything, you're like.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, you need to give inform consent. Yes. Of course.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Right after the break, I'm going to be doing something
a little bit mortifying and asking Dr Naomi about the
lines that have taken up permanent residency on my face,
and if I wanted to do something about it, what
would it be. We'll be right back. So I want
to ask you when I asked the mid audience about
(16:20):
their faces, and I always want to come from a
place of telling everybody like, you're beautiful, you do you,
But there were some very common areas of their over
forties faces that they wanted to know about.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
All right, let's go.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I hate the lines around my lips. I could have
written this, I hate the lines around my lips. I
think I gave them smoking when I was like twenty eight,
and I'm like, is this the cost? Is this the
cost of those years? Anyway, I didn't write this one.
I hate the lines around my lips. How do I
get them fixed without getting a trout out?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
That's really simple, with quite a simple procedure. So a
lot of people talk like this. So they pull in
and we can use a product that will stop you
doing or minimize you doing that. And yeah, it doesn't
give you a trap pad at all, but it does
reduce the.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Lines because it's a very common area, isn't it? Is
it the smoking? It gave me these once upon a
time would be.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
The smoking and the way you talk it.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Dammit, eyelids. Oh my god, I got a million, a
million dialammas about eyelids. How do you lift them? How much?
What's recovery?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Like?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
How long does it last? These are the questions people ast.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Okay, with the eyelids, we've got to work out is
it the brow? Is it the lid? And that that's
really important. So if it's the brow, we can lift
that a little bit by stopping you pulling down with
the muscles. So we can do that really easily and
quite a low risk procedure with the eyelids if it's
more of a surgical case, so the lids are coming
(17:56):
down eventually, it's going to be a medical problem. So
the leads are going to come down over the pupils,
so you won't be able to see. So yeah, it's
a great esthetic area to do because you're going to
need it eventually anyway.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So that's what a lot of women would say that
they're like, suddenly I've got like wrinkly testicles on my
so's that's what you're talking about, and you can get
a sort of lift there. And I don't know if
you're allowed to say this or not, but is this
what I see everywhere on the internet is called an
upper bleath.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yes, I am allowed to talk about this. Tell me so,
an upper bleaf is an upper bleph of plastic. So
it's where they do an excision of the upper eyelid
in the crease of the upper island.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Right, so sort of in that crease where you put
your dark eyeshadow. Yes, they just cut a little bit
out of there and lifted up a bit. Is that
basically what an upper bleff.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Is, correct, right, And they sew it back together.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
So you basically have a sort of a cut there
and they close it up. And what is that like
in terms of downtime, recovery and whether it's a permanent fix.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
So nothing's permanent in cosmetic because we continue to age,
but you'd get ten years out of it. So it's
probably the surgical procedure that we refer for mostly out
of anything else. So it's really common.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I'm seeing it discussed a lot. And is that partly
because as you say, like, ultimately that will become a
medical problem. So people can kind of feel okay about it.
I mean I should feel okay about anything, but you should.
But a browlift is a bit different. Now, browlift is
about lifting this part, right, And is that a surgical
thing or is that an injector?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Either way, it can be non surgical or surgical. Okay,
all right, Oh do you want me to tell you
the downtime of the upper blurfroplasty? So the upper blur
for aplasty downtime is about seven days, so it's pretty quick.
And the satisfaction rate is really high for a surgical procedure.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
So you could take a week off work really and
get that one done. And how much does it cost?
Ish necessarily what you charge, but broadly.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
We don't do that procedure. But I've seen it cost
anywhere from two thousand to fifteen thousand, right, So.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It just depends on the practitioner. Okay, this is very useful.
So we've got we've done lines around the lips and
the eyelids. Oh no, crepy neck? Then I'm another one
identify with not my words, can you solve a crepy neck?
And if so, as above, how much, how serious a
procedure and what's recovery like?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Okay, So basically the patient's going to have to choose
how invasive they want to go, So anywhere from skincare
to home care, to inclinic devices, to inclinic injectibles to
surgical procedures. So basically you've got to work out your budget.
You risk your spectrum. Yeah, so it's such a variety
of things.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
When I think about a crepy neck, I think about
a couple of things. I think about the lost elasticity,
so like it's loosening yep, but also sometimes the skin
itself gets that. You know. Again, I don't want to
use derogatory terms, but like that Turkey skin, yes, can
the actual Turkey skin texture be fixed?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
We can improve skin texture a lot, yes, right.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I know you said it's a spectrum everything from injections
to a surgical procedure.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
But what works, Like the most invasive are usually the
most effective. Yeah, which would skin s would almost be
a lift in terms of tightness, that will be the best,
But skin quality you really do need to also work
on the skin.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Now. I know you probably can't speculate about this, but
when we look at some of the women in Hollywood
who are like sixty and look forty, often that's part
of it is this very defined jawline. What are they doing?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
I think they've definitely had neck lifts face lift.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yes, so a neck lift would be at the far
end of that crapy neck situation and a bit of
injections and working on the skin text you would be
at the other end, right, thank you. This is another
interesting one. Under eye area looking hollow and dark because
for a lot of women, they feel like they look
tired all the time. As you age and you stop losing,
(22:18):
you lose that volume there and they might not even
feel tired, but they look tired and it.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Makes them sad and people say things to them as well.
It's like allowed to say, oh, you look tired exactly.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
They can't say oh you look old. They'll say you
look tired. Are you all right? Can you do anything
about that hollowing out under the eyes?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yes, we can replace volume.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
What do you do?
Speaker 1 (22:40):
So that's something that's going to be hard for me
to talk about. So some people could do fat transfer
in the area or you could use other things to
replace volume.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
And is it quite common?
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Very common, very common, very common and good results. There
are complications associated with under eye treatments, Yeah, very sensitive area.
It is fine skin.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Up. Next, what does Dr Naomi think about those celebrity
high profile facelifts that everybody's googling and taking into doctor's
surgeries jowls. We already discussed this, that's the necklift situation.
Are ordinary people really all getting facelifts these days? Every
(23:26):
way you look at the moment, somebody's saying facelift, deep plane, facelift,
blah blah. Tell me about them? Do they happen so
ordinary people want to look good? Yeah? Don't they also?
Ordinary people a strange term, but I think they mean
like not famous and like wives of millionaire types.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
H I think that I think it's really common.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Do you think it's like, has there the way that
they work kind of improved or something like? I don't know,
does it has a facelift thing changed a lot over
the years or is it still the same procedure it's
always been.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I think doctors, non surgical and surgical have become better
at face design and looking at what's actually happened during
aging and then trying to reproduce it and doing a
better job at that.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Okay, so you think that we've kind of just got
much more sophisticated. I think because you know, Hollywood stylets
were getting facelifts in the twenties, but I can't imagine
what that was.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Wow, pioneers, thank you.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I know. Goodness. Okay, this is my nosiness really, and
I don't know if you'll be able to answer me
or not. Okay, what's a procedure? Because you know how
everything sort of once seemed like it was the preserve
of Hollywood stars and millionaires wives. As I say, what's
something you think that everybody's doing? Now, it's like kind
(24:52):
of the preserve of the few that everyone will be
doing in a few years.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Oh, I feel like it doesn't necessarily work that way.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Oh tell me.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I think there's a lot of well your words, ordinary
beauty achievers doing these innovative things at the same time
as everybody else. Yeah, I think that it's always been
that way.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
And you think that it's it's not like a trickle down,
whether there's I don't or whispering about it, I don't
think so, no, what well, then let's put it this way.
What are some of the sort of newer, more exciting
things you're seeing in anti aging that or you know,
aging better or whatever words we want to put around that.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
So I can't go into it too much, sadly, but
the regenerative things so you're regoran and some other types
of things. Regoran is the salmon DNA.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Now, Lee Campbell told me a little bit about this,
but I don't think I understood quite what we were
talking about. Can you talk me through that.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
The most popular area for it is under the eyes.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Ah, and it works because what stimulates what's there the
collagen yep. Okay, so that's one of the things I
could do for my hollow.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Under us They're not that actually, Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
And what trends are you seeing in terms of what
women are coming to you and your clinic about?
Speaker 1 (26:18):
So people really want to be natural, they want really
good skin. They're not really freaking out about aging. They
just want to They just want to look great.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
So it's not that they come in and say, make
me look dirty again. No, they're saying, just make me
look good for where I am. That's good.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah. And sometimes it's just a specific thing. So people
just can have one area that bugs them in particular,
so you help with that. Some people are more generalized.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
But how do you feel about aging?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I'm grateful for aging and I'll just do all the procedures.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
And you're like you have which you have for a
long time.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
So I did it more for beauty when I was younger, Yes, yeah,
rather than for aging. But I'll do everything for aging.
I'll do it for content, which you do well.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Do you think it's that sick? Do you remember ages ago,
Kim Kardashian said something like I can't remember what the
quote was, but it was something like, I'd rob dog
poo on my face if they told me it would
make me look younger. Do you think that that when
you say that women are coming to you and are saying,
I just want to have good skin and I want
to look good. They're not saying I want to look younger.
(27:36):
They're saying I want to look good.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I think they want to look younger, but it's not
an obsession. It's more they just want to look great
and natural and fix certain things.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Because you started having procedures early, because you know it's
your world, and as you say, you did it for beauty,
did it kind of preempt a lot of aging stuff
as a do you think they're kind of held that back?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
I don't know. I don't think a lot.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah. Maybe is there anything you're too scared to do?
Speaker 1 (28:06):
You know what I'm scared to do? And I'm dying
to do it, not even will it's sort of cosmetic,
but it's not. It's I want to get lens implant.
So lens transplant for my eyes.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
What does that do?
Speaker 1 (28:19):
So glasses?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Oh, you mean like.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I'm too scared or any cosmetic procedure anything, But I'm
scared of that.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
That's so interesting. Yeah, glasses are really great, by the
way you you don't need to get rid of them.
And what do you think when people And I'm definitely
guilty of this because I'm a bit I can't. I
have this ongoing battle with myself. And this isn't a
philosophical discussion, but I'm just interested on your perspective. I
have this ongoing battle with myself about like accept yourself right,
(28:50):
Like stop looking in the mirror and picking out all
the things that you hate or don't look like they
did five years ago. Like to me, I kind of
almost set that as a bit of a challenge to
myself versus, no, I don't like that, I should fix it.
Do you think there's like two types of people.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Oh? No, I've got a rule for patients. So my
rule is just be happy with what you have at
the time and think Okay, well maybe I want to
change that. When the time comes that I have the budget,
the downtime, the risk tolerance, I'll just do it. Then
I'll wake up one day and then I'll do it.
(29:29):
But be happy with what I have until that day,
and then have it and then be happy. Just always
be happy, because yeah, why not.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Do you think our expectations of what we what can
be achieved have become a bit ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Do you have women who come in and say, I
want to look like I did when I was thirty?
Speaker 1 (29:53):
I think so people who work in cosmetic will all
be a bit annoyed with the filter use in the
before and after. It's like, oh yeah, yeah, like christian
is fatally free example, it's not going to look like
that in real life, and so that that's a bit annoying.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
So when the Christianna's of the world come out and
she's what sixty something maybe I don't know, but she
suddenly looks like she's wearing a new face, is that
good for business or bad for business?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
I think it'd be really good if we saw more
realistic photos, that's all, rather.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Than just presenting that here's me and she's it's already
been like.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Ed and edited and yeah, right, that'd be better for
our industry because then people.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Are like, but I don't look like christ Jenna, and
you're like christ Jenna doesn't look like christ Jenna. Yeah,
it's interesting because celebrities do play a big part of
this in a way in that I think about all
the Generation X celebrities that I've grown up alongside your
Jennifer Aniston's, You're Gwyneth Paltrow, as whoever, and you can't
help but compare yourself to them. What's your advice.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Stop comparing yourself to anyone celebrities or otherwise?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Do they also have Is there like an echelon there
that have access to a lot of stuff that probably
will filter down to the normal people.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I think it's it's their job, so that that's different.
When beauty is your profession, it's a bit different to
the rest of us.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, those of us who are just yeah, would like
to feel good about the way we look.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
It's really different.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
We're talking obviously about older women, but what about younger women.
Women seem to be getting treatments, treatments younger and younger.
Perhaps I don't know if that's true. What do you
think about that? And also for mothers of like young
girls who maybe are looking at their mothers getting treatments
and all those things, do you think that's become complicated?
Speaker 1 (32:01):
So there are some areas on the face, some specific
areas which are really great to prevent issues with. So
a few of those areas would be frown line, crows feet, wrinkles,
and also plutismal bands. Okay, so the neck bands are
(32:26):
the bands that go down the front of your neck.
Some people have two at the front, a couple more
at the side, and if you clench your teeth, they
poke out and these shorten as you age.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
I see.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah, So if you can put effort into prevention of that,
that and that the rest of it, we can. And
also another thing here can be some people just have
some meals of fat there. So there's a few areas
where it is important to get onto things.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Early to the point of whether or not if your
mum is doing all of this anti aging in inverted
commas and you're seeing that, like, do you think that
that's become quite complicated that.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
In what way?
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Well? I wonder if it makes young women fear aging
more or they think like my mom looks the same
age as you get a lot of people saying that
now with people with treatments and tweetness becoming more common,
that there's kind of like a generic age that everybody looks.
(33:29):
It's like somewhere around thirty eight. Do you think that's true?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I don't know. I generalize about that. No.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
With the mother and daughter thing, sometimes just the beauty
achievement might even run in the family. It looks like
to me, so if the mum's motivated, the daughter can
be motivated that way.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
I want you to explain the term beauty achievement to me.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
So it's I guess it's just people's motivation to change
things or to improve things in their mind right, So.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Some people are more motivated to do that, yes, for
whatever reason, for whatever reason, and the reasons are their own.
But if they're focused on beauty achievement, as you're saying,
they're more likely to obviously invest both time and money
and effort. Should women be trying not to express themselves
to make their faces move less and get fewer wrinkles?
Speaker 1 (34:33):
So I've seen patients who do that. What do you mean,
so they train themselves to not do it. I mean
I could not, but I have seen that.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I had this like epiphany moment of oh, this is
why people do it, because you can't talk without moving
your Fine, But what you're saying is that some people
are training themselves to not move their face to.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
A very rare thing that I've seen. But I've seen
people who are that motivated that they can do it.
I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
What is the one thing procedure you have done that
you are like, that is the best thing I've done?
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Hair transplant? Wow, hair transplant?
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Did you get your hairline lowered? Is that what you did?
Speaker 1 (35:20):
So? I got it reshaped? Tell me about that, okay.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
And tell me why and what that takes, because that
sounds like a lot.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
So being a cosmetic doctor, the problem is you just
see results of amazing procedures all the time. So one
of my patients a trans woman, so I've been treating
her for a long time. She looks incredible, so super feminine,
She's just amazing. And so she came back after having
(35:49):
a hair transplant and I just thought, that is just sensational.
You look so beautiful. Where'd you go? I'm doing it now?
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Wow? And why did you want to have it.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Done because I saw the potential from seeing her before
and after.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
How did you not like about your hairline?
Speaker 1 (36:08):
So I thought that I didn't like the height of
my forehead, But then even I didn't even know until
after the procedure that actually it was the width of
my forehead that was going to be improved so much.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
So what happens? How do you do it?
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Okay? So what they do is they take a shape
of an eyepiece from the back of your head and
cut it out. Then there's six technicians sitting around and
they cut it all up into either ones, twos or
three's little hair follicles.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Wow, that's so detailed.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I know, I was there for eight hours twice.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
And then they basically map out your new hairline and
dot where the individual follicles are going to go, and
then implant them.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I reckon. Lots of men gether.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Oh, it's really common and the results are amazing.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
You see, I see men in the public eye who
are aging well, and you think your hair looks better
than it did when you were How what's the downtime
on that must be significant?
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Oh, it's it's the most tedious procedure ever because waiting
for hair again, you look terrible, You look really weird.
So you have this weird tiny little hairs poking out
all around here and then that's I can't remember, maybe
for about a month and then they fall out and
(37:38):
then you just maybe a couple of months later, you
grow little hairs, yes.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
And how long till you've got the result you wanted?
Speaker 1 (37:47):
So you know, then you've got to wait for that
hair to reach the rest of your hair.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah, it's like, yeah, I can imagine it's a long games.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Once it's done, though, amazing.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Awesome, that's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Random, sorry, random, but I like it all right.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I've got one more thing. Yeah, a lot of us,
as discussed by the audience, they're worried about their eyelids,
their necks, they're under eyes. Do you think, and I
know you don't, this isn't a critical but you obviously
look at women's faces in a very trained eye way
right the way that you said to me you're very
symmetrical or whatever you said, What do you think is
the most actually the most aging thing? Because I remember
(38:30):
a makeup artist once said to me that she thought
that less than wrinkles, uneven skin tone for example was
a very aging thing that you should try and focus
on fixing. And that was interesting for me to hear
that because it just made me realize that a trained
professional looks at your face in a different way. Do
you think there's something we don't realize is aging that
is aging us?
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Oh that's really hard. I mean, we really look at
eyes a lot. That's something we do look at eyes,
so I think. And then from afar, we're not just
looking front onto, we're looking side on. So it's the neck.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Mean as we tend to look at ourselves front on on.
So that's why you sometimes get that shot when you
see something, I mean in a window when you're walking
past the shop window.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
You're like, oh yeah. And I think when you're not
really focusing, you sort of looking at volume and contours
and things like that. So oh, it all adds up.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Thank you very much, Naomi. This has been very enlightening
my pleasure. Thank you, and I know you join me
in telling our audience like, don't worry about things you're
not worried about, but talk to a trained professional about
anything that you are. That the message we're leaving them with.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Be happy.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Thank you mids for being with us through that. I
hope you found it really interesting. I did, and I
hope you're enjoying this special dilemmas season of Mid. If
you are interested in all things beauty, and if you
also want to hear about things that don't involve any needles,
then you might want to go back and listen to
my conversation with Lee Campbell. We talked about all things
(40:09):
face and aging and beauty in our last season, but
it was everything from makeup to serums, to skincare, to creams,
all that stuff. And also she told us about the
salmon sperm stuff that Dr Dermie was talking about. She
told us she'd done that. So scroll back in the
feed listen to that. It's so good. Lead's just a legend.
Thank you for being with us on MID. If you
love our show, please review, please share, please tell a friend,
(40:33):
And we want to do a big shout out to
our team who helped us put this together. The executive
producer of Mid is Naima Brown. Our senior producer is
Charlie Blackman, and we've had audio designed by Jacob Brown.
See you next week.
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. What's wrong with your face?
That's easy, absolutely nothing. What do you think is wrong
with your face? That's easy too, absolutely everything. My top
lip is disappearing, my eyelids are falling into my eyes,
(00:36):
my eyebrows are thinning, my sun spots are spreading. There's
more baggage under my eyes and under my arms. My
forehead is a game of noughts and crosses. I've got
lines pointing down to my lips. This is you talking
about your faces when I asked you, and of course
me talking about mine. If I was being really honest
sitting here, I'd be like, oh, my neck is drooping.
(00:58):
My chin is a whole depressing right that we can
all find so many faults in ourselves. Well, yes, but
also no, After all, whose fault is it that we
swim in soup? As I like to say of beauty standards,
that really all have one benchmark, and it's youth, young, taught, tight, smooth.
Even it takes the willpower and self resolve of a
(01:21):
busy saint not to ever worry about what time and
age is doing to make our outsides look so different
from the way we feel on the inside. I'm Holly Wainwright,
and I am mid and today I'm putting judgments, and
believe me, I have plenty of them, of course, almost
all directed at myself on the shelf. And I've invited
(01:43):
someone who's in one of the fastest growing industries in
the world. That's the cosmetic treatment industry. These days, it's
usually called esthetics, which is a word I always struggle
to say. But she's in esthetics. What she's seen and
what she would suggest that we all do about that
laundry list of perceived faults that you sent me, Because
we're answering your dilemmas here this season on MID, as
(02:06):
you know, and I'm calling smart women to help to
solve our problems. Remember this advice about your faces is
only relevant if you want to do anything to them,
if you can, if you can afford it, if you're
happy to step into that world and onto that Ferris wheel.
But if you met Dr Naomi, who's called Naomi mccllum,
(02:28):
but she almost always is just called Dr Naomi on
Instagram and everywhere else in real life. You'd have no
idea how old she is, but you would be able
to tell that she's done quite a bit of work
to her face. And she has, and she has absolutely
no shame or shade about it, and nor should she.
It's her business, it's her world. She's obsessed with it.
She sent me because I asked her and she very
(02:49):
politely said yes, sent me a list of all the
things that she's done over the years to herself, because
she says she's been a cosmetic doctor and a cosmetic
patient for twenty five years now. And remember, she wouldn't
describe her approach to all this stuff as moderate or
ordinary or anything but just deep breaths. Listen to this.
(03:09):
This is the list that DoD to Naomi sent me.
Rhinoplasty at least six times. That's a nose job, friends,
Tommy tuck times three, and upper bleff. We're going to
tell you what nupper bluff is. Breast reduction two maybe
three times, LiPo eight times. That's lipos suction including arms, legs, trunk, neck,
most multiple times she says face and neck lift, hair
(03:31):
transplant times two, liplift times three, jaw widening surgery, orthodontic
she says arm lift. She also says every nonsurgical procedure
many times full body freckle and mole removal, a blative laser,
full field and fractionated and of course injectables. Now, Naomi
says that she doesn't have any plans for any more
(03:51):
cosmetic surgery for about seven years. But the thing is,
if that's shocking to you, and of course it is,
and you're like, how are we talking to this person
about like what I would call ordinary and inverted commons people,
which is people who aren't going to go that far.
She runs a clinic that she's been running for a
long time. I'm now in Sydney's fancies and suburbs, and
also one in the city that do all kinds of
(04:14):
beauty treatments. And because she's lived and breed this for
so long and it's her world and she's obsessed with it,
she knows everything about it, and she is refreshingly honest
and non judgmental about it. Obviously, I was like, oh
my god, I'm sitting next to a woman who has
done all kinds of things to herself in terms of
chasing perfection, and I you know, oh god, I use
(04:34):
some fancy serums sometimes have had a bit of laser,
but that's where it stops for me so far. But
she's actually very non judgmental. Of course, there are a
lot of kind of moral and ethical questions that swirl
around in this world, and certainly swirl around in the
world of cosmetic surgery, but that's actually not what we're
here to talk about today. What we're here to talk
about today with Dr Naomi, who knows a lot of
(04:57):
stuff firsthand and as an expert and qualified practitioner, are
the questions that you sent in and she is unflinchingly
honest about it. She's also going to tell you why
you should never take a picture of christ Jenna's new
face into a cosmetic doctor and say I want one
like that. No, Instead, she's going to spill the face
secrets of the brave, the loaded, the just plane curious.
(05:20):
And please note, friends, as we've told you before, and
we've talked about this kind of stuff here in Australia,
we're lucky enough to be bound by pretty strict rules
when it comes to discussing and certainly promoting any specific
cosmetic procedures or health treatments. So if you wonder why
the good doctor is being a little bit vague at times.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
That's why enjoy.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Naomi, thank you so much for joining us today. So
I asked the mid audience. I said, send me your
dilemmas about your face. So no one's telling you that
you need to have dilemmas about your face. But if
you do send me some, do you think I got
a lot or a few?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I think we all know the end.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I think I got a lot. Ton't know. Some of
them are very specific, and some of them have kind
of grouped together because these are the things that the
audience wanted me to ask you as the expert in
this space. So here's the first one. It's juicy. My
dilemma is about money rights hour listener. You're not an accountant,
she means you. You're not an Accountantnomi, but you know
(06:19):
how much all this stuff costs. She means beauty stuff obviously,
and tweakments and so on. And like a lot of women,
I'm very tempted by fixing some of the things that
are making me sad when I look in the mirror.
But I'm not sure that financially I can justify spending
that on my face. Can you give me an idea
of how much the most common anti aging procedures cost
(06:42):
and what women are spending on their faces.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Probably the most common amount that people would spend would
be those who do their upper face wrinkles. So they
treat those and they do that three times a year,
spending about eight hundred. Yeah, that's a really common scenario.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
So eight hundred each time. Yes, yes, right, okay.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
That's very very common. But then you know upwards from
their tens of thousand. For some people want to like
the most into it. People spend Oh, like, who'd hate?
I mean there's people who just come every month for something, yeah,
(07:24):
or even more frequently.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
And do you think is it? One of the things
that people often say is they're like, oh, I might
start with this, but then I'll get to that and
I'll get to that. Is that true?
Speaker 1 (07:34):
It can happen.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It can happen. People can get carried away. Related to this,
someone says, if you could only spend actually this sort
of fit almost fits into what we're talking about. But
if you could only spend between five hundred and one
thousand dollars a year on skin treatments, what would you
spend it on? Could I have two thousand, Okay, let's
(07:57):
give you. Let's double that budget because let's break it.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Up, you know, sure, So I think two thousands a
bit easier for me. I could probably pull it back,
but let's just start it to and go down. I'd
probably we do a wrink all treatment twice a year,
and then I do the rest at home. So I'd
do home peals, I'd get a home led, and I'd
(08:20):
do regular things at home myself. And obviously sunscreen and
that type of thing too.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Is there a line where because I think that one
of the things lots of women around my age are like,
I see, I love a boogie serum, right, I love that.
So I probably spend more than I should on the
promise in a bottle. But there's a point at which
the bottle isn't going to cut it? Am I correct?
And so if I'm spending hundreds of dollars on skincare,
(08:53):
is there an argument that I might be better off
transferring some of that money into other more serious is
the wrong word, but you know, more heavy duty treatments.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So it depends on what you're trying to improve. So
different treatment will treat different things to what skincare will do.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Of course, I guess that's true. So when I say
I just want to generally look young and gorgeous, it's
not in a bottle. Okay, this next one, I want
to get tweaks. But my partner would be so disappointed
in me if I did. Is everything women get done obvious?
Do lots of women manage to hide this stuff from
(09:36):
their partners? Do you think that's okay? Now? I know
you're not a therapist, Naomi, but you must have seen everything.
Tell me about the kind of things that women get
done and try and keep secret. So women hide it
all the time. So they hide the downtime, they hide
the financial aspect, so they'll put it on three cards.
They'll do it while the husband goes away. So, yes,
(09:59):
they hide it because if you're getting certain things done,
it's going to show. Obviously, that's kind of the point.
And the downtime and the downtime. Do you think it's okay?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Which part of it? Hiding it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I guess she's sort of saying, like lots of women.
Do lots of women manage to hide it? And do
you think it's okay that they do?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
What do you think I think people should be in
charge of their own bodies and yeah, and their bodies
are their business as well. I mean, if it was
a really risky procedure, I think it's important to share
that with your partner.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Do you think that it's lessening like in the time
that you've been in this business, do you think that
that kind of stuff, that kind of oh no, what
do you mean, I just had a good night's sleep.
Stuff is fading out.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
There's way less hiding it, so much more transparency.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
You think that's good? Yes, because you know how now
it's very common for say, celebrities to go online and
say I did this. I mean, we have stricter regulations
in this country for people to be able to do that.
But you know, you'll see a celebrity in American celebrity
go online and say I had exactly this, this is
my sir, and this is how much of the stuff
(11:10):
I got blah blah blah. You're a big fan. I
mean you've always marketed your business that way with lots
of transparency.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yes, I think it's an improvement.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Is the problem that people come to you with these
pictures of celebrities and go make me look like that
it's difficult when the patient expectations are too high. Looks
like at the hairdressers, except with your face. Okay, here's
a good one. My partner is ten years younger than me.
We've been together for fifteen years and adore each other.
(11:45):
It's never been a problem. But now I feel like
I'm aging fast and I look so much older than him.
If you could recommend the most effective and not too
obvious procedures that would freshen me up, I would love
to know what you'd choose.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Okay, this lady needs a consultation, So one thing doesn't
suit everybody. Every face is different, and not just the
anatomical part, so we have to follow the medical procedures.
So take your history, do an examination, have a discussion,
get a consent. So from the anatomy point of view,
(12:24):
we're going to look at her and see something very
different to someone else. So for example, she might have
her mid face aged more than the rest of us face,
so we're going to focus on that. She might have
a really beautiful part of a face, like gorgeous eyes,
and we really want to keep them amazing. So everybody's
different anatomically, and everybody has a different risk tolerance, budget
(12:48):
downtime tolerance. So we really have to get into that
with everybody before we make a plan. So it's a
bit hard to give a plan.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeap. So if I was to come to you to
your clinic for the first time and just say, and
I'm not asking you to do a consultation, all that
would be inappropriate, but like, I want to kind of
understand the process.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Okay, I would come.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
In and I might say to you, look, i haven't
been doing anything, but I'm really getting you know, I'm
really feeling I'm aging around my eyes and forehead or
my jowly neck or whatever, and we're going to get
into specific soon. I would see a professional. They would
listen to my concerns. They would say, you could do this, this,
and this is that how it works.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
So we'd first talk about what you were concerned about,
and then we'd just do an anatomical assessment. You've got
you actually have beautiful proportions. Thanks, Yeah, I mean you
really do. So you'd need sort of depending on what
you wanted, but yeah, a global sort of thing. So
because your proportions.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Are say global, you mean, so it means that.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
You're looking at you you're not look nicely evenly proportioned,
and there's not one area that is. It's all looking
nice together. It's all as old as each other. You
probably started out with really nice proportions.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
So yeah, okay, so you'd come in, i'd see a professional.
They would give me a very individual Yes. Now, what
should people watch out for when they're doing that kind
of thing? Because so if I've never done that, what
I'm scared of is a it would be emotionally crushing
because someone's going to sit there with a pen and
tell me all the things that are wrong with my face.
These are my preconceptions. Can you tell me if they're
(14:30):
real or not. B They're obviously going to want to
upsell me because they're going to be like, well, you
could do this for two thousand dollars, or you could
do this for blah blah blah, and that. How do
I know that they've kind of got my best interest
at heart? If you like, So, what should you be
looking for when you're looking for a practitioner?
Speaker 1 (14:47):
So what I think you should do is go in
with your boundaries and then share them. So this is
my budget, this is my concerns, this is my downtime.
This is my risk tolerance. The risk tolerance you really
have to talk about once the practitioner has talked to
you about the risks. So you just said it yourself.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
So risk tolerance you mean in terms of how much
of an operation you might want, like what you're willing
to how far you're willing to go.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yes, so we'll do things where are the risks are temporary,
so a brow droup, a lid bruising, swelling, that type
of thing. Then we'll do a little bit higher risk. Well, well,
catastrophic risks still at a low risk, but they're there.
So things like blindness, necross so quite serious risks and
some people just don't want that, so we'll just that's
(15:38):
so that's ruled out.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
And a good clinician should be honest about that stuff
upfront and honest about that stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Well we're obliged, yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
So they shouldn't be like no, it's nothing, but the
other way really if anything, you're like.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, you need to give inform consent. Yes. Of course.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Right after the break, I'm going to be doing something
a little bit mortifying and asking Dr Naomi about the
lines that have taken up permanent residency on my face,
and if I wanted to do something about it, what
would it be. We'll be right back. So I want
to ask you when I asked the mid audience about
(16:20):
their faces, and I always want to come from a
place of telling everybody like, you're beautiful, you do you,
But there were some very common areas of their over
forties faces that they wanted to know about.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
All right, let's go.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I hate the lines around my lips. I could have
written this, I hate the lines around my lips. I
think I gave them smoking when I was like twenty eight,
and I'm like, is this the cost? Is this the
cost of those years? Anyway, I didn't write this one.
I hate the lines around my lips. How do I
get them fixed without getting a trout out?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
That's really simple, with quite a simple procedure. So a
lot of people talk like this. So they pull in
and we can use a product that will stop you
doing or minimize you doing that. And yeah, it doesn't
give you a trap pad at all, but it does
reduce the.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Lines because it's a very common area, isn't it? Is
it the smoking? It gave me these once upon a
time would be.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
The smoking and the way you talk it.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Dammit, eyelids. Oh my god, I got a million, a
million dialammas about eyelids. How do you lift them? How much?
What's recovery?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Like?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
How long does it last? These are the questions people ast.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Okay, with the eyelids, we've got to work out is
it the brow? Is it the lid? And that that's
really important. So if it's the brow, we can lift
that a little bit by stopping you pulling down with
the muscles. So we can do that really easily and
quite a low risk procedure with the eyelids if it's
more of a surgical case, so the lids are coming
(17:56):
down eventually, it's going to be a medical problem. So
the leads are going to come down over the pupils,
so you won't be able to see. So yeah, it's
a great esthetic area to do because you're going to
need it eventually anyway.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So that's what a lot of women would say that
they're like, suddenly I've got like wrinkly testicles on my
so's that's what you're talking about, and you can get
a sort of lift there. And I don't know if
you're allowed to say this or not, but is this
what I see everywhere on the internet is called an
upper bleath.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yes, I am allowed to talk about this. Tell me so,
an upper bleaf is an upper bleph of plastic. So
it's where they do an excision of the upper eyelid
in the crease of the upper island.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Right, so sort of in that crease where you put
your dark eyeshadow. Yes, they just cut a little bit
out of there and lifted up a bit. Is that
basically what an upper bleff.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Is, correct, right, And they sew it back together.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
So you basically have a sort of a cut there
and they close it up. And what is that like
in terms of downtime, recovery and whether it's a permanent fix.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
So nothing's permanent in cosmetic because we continue to age,
but you'd get ten years out of it. So it's
probably the surgical procedure that we refer for mostly out
of anything else. So it's really common.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I'm seeing it discussed a lot. And is that partly
because as you say, like, ultimately that will become a
medical problem. So people can kind of feel okay about it.
I mean I should feel okay about anything, but you should.
But a browlift is a bit different. Now, browlift is
about lifting this part, right, And is that a surgical
thing or is that an injector?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Either way, it can be non surgical or surgical. Okay,
all right, Oh do you want me to tell you
the downtime of the upper blurfroplasty? So the upper blur
for aplasty downtime is about seven days, so it's pretty quick.
And the satisfaction rate is really high for a surgical procedure.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
So you could take a week off work really and
get that one done. And how much does it cost?
Ish necessarily what you charge, but broadly.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
We don't do that procedure. But I've seen it cost
anywhere from two thousand to fifteen thousand, right, So.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It just depends on the practitioner. Okay, this is very useful.
So we've got we've done lines around the lips and
the eyelids. Oh no, crepy neck? Then I'm another one
identify with not my words, can you solve a crepy neck?
And if so, as above, how much, how serious a
procedure and what's recovery like?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Okay, So basically the patient's going to have to choose
how invasive they want to go, So anywhere from skincare
to home care, to inclinic devices, to inclinic injectibles to
surgical procedures. So basically you've got to work out your budget.
You risk your spectrum. Yeah, so it's such a variety
of things.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
When I think about a crepy neck, I think about
a couple of things. I think about the lost elasticity,
so like it's loosening yep, but also sometimes the skin
itself gets that. You know. Again, I don't want to
use derogatory terms, but like that Turkey skin, yes, can
the actual Turkey skin texture be fixed?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
We can improve skin texture a lot, yes, right.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I know you said it's a spectrum everything from injections
to a surgical procedure.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
But what works, Like the most invasive are usually the
most effective. Yeah, which would skin s would almost be
a lift in terms of tightness, that will be the best,
But skin quality you really do need to also work
on the skin.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Now. I know you probably can't speculate about this, but
when we look at some of the women in Hollywood
who are like sixty and look forty, often that's part
of it is this very defined jawline. What are they doing?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
I think they've definitely had neck lifts face lift.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yes, so a neck lift would be at the far
end of that crapy neck situation and a bit of
injections and working on the skin text you would be
at the other end, right, thank you. This is another
interesting one. Under eye area looking hollow and dark because
for a lot of women, they feel like they look
tired all the time. As you age and you stop losing,
(22:18):
you lose that volume there and they might not even
feel tired, but they look tired and it.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Makes them sad and people say things to them as well.
It's like allowed to say, oh, you look tired exactly.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
They can't say oh you look old. They'll say you
look tired. Are you all right? Can you do anything
about that hollowing out under the eyes?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yes, we can replace volume.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
What do you do?
Speaker 1 (22:40):
So that's something that's going to be hard for me
to talk about. So some people could do fat transfer
in the area or you could use other things to
replace volume.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
And is it quite common?
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Very common, very common, very common and good results. There
are complications associated with under eye treatments, Yeah, very sensitive area.
It is fine skin.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Up. Next, what does Dr Naomi think about those celebrity
high profile facelifts that everybody's googling and taking into doctor's
surgeries jowls. We already discussed this, that's the necklift situation.
Are ordinary people really all getting facelifts these days? Every
(23:26):
way you look at the moment, somebody's saying facelift, deep plane, facelift,
blah blah. Tell me about them? Do they happen so
ordinary people want to look good? Yeah? Don't they also?
Ordinary people a strange term, but I think they mean
like not famous and like wives of millionaire types.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
H I think that I think it's really common.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Do you think it's like, has there the way that
they work kind of improved or something like? I don't know,
does it has a facelift thing changed a lot over
the years or is it still the same procedure it's
always been.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I think doctors, non surgical and surgical have become better
at face design and looking at what's actually happened during
aging and then trying to reproduce it and doing a
better job at that.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Okay, so you think that we've kind of just got
much more sophisticated. I think because you know, Hollywood stylets
were getting facelifts in the twenties, but I can't imagine
what that was.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Wow, pioneers, thank you.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I know. Goodness. Okay, this is my nosiness really, and
I don't know if you'll be able to answer me
or not. Okay, what's a procedure? Because you know how
everything sort of once seemed like it was the preserve
of Hollywood stars and millionaires wives. As I say, what's
something you think that everybody's doing? Now, it's like kind
(24:52):
of the preserve of the few that everyone will be
doing in a few years.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Oh, I feel like it doesn't necessarily work that way.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Oh tell me.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I think there's a lot of well your words, ordinary
beauty achievers doing these innovative things at the same time
as everybody else. Yeah, I think that it's always been
that way.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
And you think that it's it's not like a trickle down,
whether there's I don't or whispering about it, I don't
think so, no, what well, then let's put it this way.
What are some of the sort of newer, more exciting
things you're seeing in anti aging that or you know,
aging better or whatever words we want to put around that.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
So I can't go into it too much, sadly, but
the regenerative things so you're regoran and some other types
of things. Regoran is the salmon DNA.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Now, Lee Campbell told me a little bit about this,
but I don't think I understood quite what we were
talking about. Can you talk me through that.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
The most popular area for it is under the eyes.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Ah, and it works because what stimulates what's there the
collagen yep. Okay, so that's one of the things I
could do for my hollow.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Under us They're not that actually, Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
And what trends are you seeing in terms of what
women are coming to you and your clinic about?
Speaker 1 (26:18):
So people really want to be natural, they want really
good skin. They're not really freaking out about aging. They
just want to They just want to look great.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
So it's not that they come in and say, make
me look dirty again. No, they're saying, just make me
look good for where I am. That's good.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah. And sometimes it's just a specific thing. So people
just can have one area that bugs them in particular,
so you help with that. Some people are more generalized.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
But how do you feel about aging?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I'm grateful for aging and I'll just do all the procedures.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
And you're like you have which you have for a
long time.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
So I did it more for beauty when I was younger, Yes, yeah,
rather than for aging. But I'll do everything for aging.
I'll do it for content, which you do well.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Do you think it's that sick? Do you remember ages ago,
Kim Kardashian said something like I can't remember what the
quote was, but it was something like, I'd rob dog
poo on my face if they told me it would
make me look younger. Do you think that that when
you say that women are coming to you and are saying,
I just want to have good skin and I want
to look good. They're not saying I want to look younger.
(27:36):
They're saying I want to look good.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I think they want to look younger, but it's not
an obsession. It's more they just want to look great
and natural and fix certain things.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Because you started having procedures early, because you know it's
your world, and as you say, you did it for beauty,
did it kind of preempt a lot of aging stuff
as a do you think they're kind of held that back?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
I don't know. I don't think a lot.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah. Maybe is there anything you're too scared to do?
Speaker 1 (28:06):
You know what I'm scared to do? And I'm dying
to do it, not even will it's sort of cosmetic,
but it's not. It's I want to get lens implant.
So lens transplant for my eyes.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
What does that do?
Speaker 1 (28:19):
So glasses?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Oh, you mean like.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I'm too scared or any cosmetic procedure anything, But I'm
scared of that.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
That's so interesting. Yeah, glasses are really great, by the
way you you don't need to get rid of them.
And what do you think when people And I'm definitely
guilty of this because I'm a bit I can't. I
have this ongoing battle with myself. And this isn't a
philosophical discussion, but I'm just interested on your perspective. I
have this ongoing battle with myself about like accept yourself right,
(28:50):
Like stop looking in the mirror and picking out all
the things that you hate or don't look like they
did five years ago. Like to me, I kind of
almost set that as a bit of a challenge to
myself versus, no, I don't like that, I should fix it.
Do you think there's like two types of people.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Oh? No, I've got a rule for patients. So my
rule is just be happy with what you have at
the time and think Okay, well maybe I want to
change that. When the time comes that I have the budget,
the downtime, the risk tolerance, I'll just do it. Then
I'll wake up one day and then I'll do it.
(29:29):
But be happy with what I have until that day,
and then have it and then be happy. Just always
be happy, because yeah, why not.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Do you think our expectations of what we what can
be achieved have become a bit ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Do you have women who come in and say, I
want to look like I did when I was thirty?
Speaker 1 (29:53):
I think so people who work in cosmetic will all
be a bit annoyed with the filter use in the
before and after. It's like, oh yeah, yeah, like christian
is fatally free example, it's not going to look like
that in real life, and so that that's a bit annoying.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
So when the Christianna's of the world come out and
she's what sixty something maybe I don't know, but she
suddenly looks like she's wearing a new face, is that
good for business or bad for business?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
I think it'd be really good if we saw more
realistic photos, that's all, rather.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Than just presenting that here's me and she's it's already
been like.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Ed and edited and yeah, right, that'd be better for
our industry because then people.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Are like, but I don't look like christ Jenna, and
you're like christ Jenna doesn't look like christ Jenna. Yeah,
it's interesting because celebrities do play a big part of
this in a way in that I think about all
the Generation X celebrities that I've grown up alongside your
Jennifer Aniston's, You're Gwyneth Paltrow, as whoever, and you can't
help but compare yourself to them. What's your advice.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Stop comparing yourself to anyone celebrities or otherwise?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Do they also have Is there like an echelon there
that have access to a lot of stuff that probably
will filter down to the normal people.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I think it's it's their job, so that that's different.
When beauty is your profession, it's a bit different to
the rest of us.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, those of us who are just yeah, would like
to feel good about the way we look.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
It's really different.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
We're talking obviously about older women, but what about younger women.
Women seem to be getting treatments, treatments younger and younger.
Perhaps I don't know if that's true. What do you
think about that? And also for mothers of like young
girls who maybe are looking at their mothers getting treatments
and all those things, do you think that's become complicated?
Speaker 1 (32:01):
So there are some areas on the face, some specific
areas which are really great to prevent issues with. So
a few of those areas would be frown line, crows feet, wrinkles,
and also plutismal bands. Okay, so the neck bands are
(32:26):
the bands that go down the front of your neck.
Some people have two at the front, a couple more
at the side, and if you clench your teeth, they
poke out and these shorten as you age.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
I see.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah, So if you can put effort into prevention of that,
that and that the rest of it, we can. And
also another thing here can be some people just have
some meals of fat there. So there's a few areas
where it is important to get onto things.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Early to the point of whether or not if your
mum is doing all of this anti aging in inverted
commas and you're seeing that, like, do you think that
that's become quite complicated that.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
In what way?
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Well? I wonder if it makes young women fear aging
more or they think like my mom looks the same
age as you get a lot of people saying that
now with people with treatments and tweetness becoming more common,
that there's kind of like a generic age that everybody looks.
(33:29):
It's like somewhere around thirty eight. Do you think that's true?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I don't know. I generalize about that. No.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
With the mother and daughter thing, sometimes just the beauty
achievement might even run in the family. It looks like
to me, so if the mum's motivated, the daughter can
be motivated that way.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
I want you to explain the term beauty achievement to me.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
So it's I guess it's just people's motivation to change
things or to improve things in their mind right, So.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Some people are more motivated to do that, yes, for
whatever reason, for whatever reason, and the reasons are their own.
But if they're focused on beauty achievement, as you're saying,
they're more likely to obviously invest both time and money
and effort. Should women be trying not to express themselves
to make their faces move less and get fewer wrinkles?
Speaker 1 (34:33):
So I've seen patients who do that. What do you mean,
so they train themselves to not do it. I mean
I could not, but I have seen that.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I had this like epiphany moment of oh, this is
why people do it, because you can't talk without moving
your Fine, But what you're saying is that some people
are training themselves to not move their face to.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
A very rare thing that I've seen. But I've seen
people who are that motivated that they can do it.
I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
What is the one thing procedure you have done that
you are like, that is the best thing I've done?
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Hair transplant? Wow, hair transplant?
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Did you get your hairline lowered? Is that what you did?
Speaker 1 (35:20):
So? I got it reshaped? Tell me about that, okay.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
And tell me why and what that takes, because that
sounds like a lot.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
So being a cosmetic doctor, the problem is you just
see results of amazing procedures all the time. So one
of my patients a trans woman, so I've been treating
her for a long time. She looks incredible, so super feminine,
She's just amazing. And so she came back after having
(35:49):
a hair transplant and I just thought, that is just sensational.
You look so beautiful. Where'd you go? I'm doing it now?
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Wow? And why did you want to have it.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Done because I saw the potential from seeing her before
and after.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
How did you not like about your hairline?
Speaker 1 (36:08):
So I thought that I didn't like the height of
my forehead, But then even I didn't even know until
after the procedure that actually it was the width of
my forehead that was going to be improved so much.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
So what happens? How do you do it?
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Okay? So what they do is they take a shape
of an eyepiece from the back of your head and
cut it out. Then there's six technicians sitting around and
they cut it all up into either ones, twos or
three's little hair follicles.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Wow, that's so detailed.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I know, I was there for eight hours twice.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
And then they basically map out your new hairline and
dot where the individual follicles are going to go, and
then implant them.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I reckon. Lots of men gether.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Oh, it's really common and the results are amazing.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
You see, I see men in the public eye who
are aging well, and you think your hair looks better
than it did when you were How what's the downtime
on that must be significant?
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Oh, it's it's the most tedious procedure ever because waiting
for hair again, you look terrible, You look really weird.
So you have this weird tiny little hairs poking out
all around here and then that's I can't remember, maybe
for about a month and then they fall out and
(37:38):
then you just maybe a couple of months later, you
grow little hairs, yes.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
And how long till you've got the result you wanted?
Speaker 1 (37:47):
So you know, then you've got to wait for that
hair to reach the rest of your hair.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah, it's like, yeah, I can imagine it's a long games.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Once it's done, though, amazing.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Awesome, that's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Random, sorry, random, but I like it all right.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I've got one more thing. Yeah, a lot of us,
as discussed by the audience, they're worried about their eyelids,
their necks, they're under eyes. Do you think, and I
know you don't, this isn't a critical but you obviously
look at women's faces in a very trained eye way
right the way that you said to me you're very
symmetrical or whatever you said, What do you think is
the most actually the most aging thing? Because I remember
(38:30):
a makeup artist once said to me that she thought
that less than wrinkles, uneven skin tone for example was
a very aging thing that you should try and focus
on fixing. And that was interesting for me to hear
that because it just made me realize that a trained
professional looks at your face in a different way. Do
you think there's something we don't realize is aging that
is aging us?
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Oh that's really hard. I mean, we really look at
eyes a lot. That's something we do look at eyes,
so I think. And then from afar, we're not just
looking front onto, we're looking side on. So it's the neck.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Mean as we tend to look at ourselves front on on.
So that's why you sometimes get that shot when you
see something, I mean in a window when you're walking
past the shop window.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
You're like, oh yeah. And I think when you're not
really focusing, you sort of looking at volume and contours
and things like that. So oh, it all adds up.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Thank you very much, Naomi. This has been very enlightening
my pleasure. Thank you, and I know you join me
in telling our audience like, don't worry about things you're
not worried about, but talk to a trained professional about
anything that you are. That the message we're leaving them with.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Be happy.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Thank you mids for being with us through that. I
hope you found it really interesting. I did, and I
hope you're enjoying this special dilemmas season of Mid. If
you are interested in all things beauty, and if you
also want to hear about things that don't involve any needles,
then you might want to go back and listen to
my conversation with Lee Campbell. We talked about all things
(40:09):
face and aging and beauty in our last season, but
it was everything from makeup to serums, to skincare, to creams,
all that stuff. And also she told us about the
salmon sperm stuff that Dr Dermie was talking about. She
told us she'd done that. So scroll back in the
feed listen to that. It's so good. Lead's just a legend.
Thank you for being with us on MID. If you
love our show, please review, please share, please tell a friend,
(40:33):
And we want to do a big shout out to
our team who helped us put this together. The executive
producer of Mid is Naima Brown. Our senior producer is
Charlie Blackman, and we've had audio designed by Jacob Brown.
See you next week.
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