June 11, 2025 • 23 mins
What if you’ve always wanted to live somewhere else?
What if you did it, once, and you remember the freedom and the energy released by fresh places, by a different culture, a true restart.
What if you’re looking at your post-work act and you’re thinking, would the pressure be less? Would the joy be multiplied? Would my dollar go further? Would my wanderlust be sated. If I… lived somewhere else.
What would it be like? Would you be lonely? Would you be safe? Would you feel like a new version of yourself?
We’ve got someone we’d like you to meet. Maggie Lazarre is American. Three years ago she moved, alone, to Panama, in Central America, and she was so bombarded with questions of how she did it - how she retired alone to another country, that she started a community called Single Women Retiring Abroad.
Whether you’re single or not, and wherever you might be dreaming about heading off to when you don’t have to go to work every day, you’re going to like Maggie’s energy and honesty. Her stories of what’s working, what’s not, what she loves about her choice, what she’d do differently…
Learn more about Aware Super here.
To follow Maggie’s work, Single Women Retiring Overseas, start here.
For more info about retiring overseas: https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/before-you-go/activities/retiring-overseas
https://nationalseniors.com.au/news/latest-news/what-to-know-before-you-retire-overseas
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Mamamia's new podcast BIZ is rewriting the rules of work with no generic advice - just real strategies from women who've actually been there. Listen here.
CREDITS:
Host: Holly Wainwright
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Producer: Tahli Blackman
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a Mother mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. What if you've always
wanted to live somewhere else and life hasn't given that to.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
You yet, but the pool won't be wished away.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
What if you did it once before and you remember
the freedom, the treat of the new, the energy released
by fresh places, by a different culture, a true restart.
What if you're looking at your post work act and
you're thinking, would the pressure be less somewhere else? Would
the joy be multiplied? Would my dollar go further? Would
(00:50):
my wanderlust be sated? If I lived overseas Asia, perhaps
where many post work ossies are living for chunks of
time on retirement visas or long stays, swapping the suburbs
for seaside apartments, or Portugal or Spain or Mexico.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
What would it be like?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Would you be would you be safe? Would you feel
like a new version of yourself? If you've wondered about
any of this. As another one of our bonus episodes
about post work life in partnership with Aware Super, We've
got someone we'd like you to meet Maggie Lazarre is
American and three years ago she moved alone to Panama
(01:31):
in Central America, and she was so bombarded with questions
of how she did it, because she's started social media
accounts men talking publicly about how much she enjoys it.
She kept getting asked by everybody how she retired alone
to another country, and so she started a community called
single Women Retiring Abroad. And whether you're single or not,
(01:54):
and wherever you might be dreaming about heading off to
when you don't have to go to work every day,
you're going to like Maggie's story and her energy and
her honesty and her tales of what's working, what's not,
what she loves about her choice, and what she'd do differently.
So got some great advice for the questions to ask yourself.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Before you make a big decision like this.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Of course, considerations for Australians considering a move like this
are a bit different to Maggie's, and you'll find some
links to relevant info in the show notes about that.
But look, I think you're going to be inspired and
entertained by Maggie all the same. We spoke to her
in Panama just last week. Well, I wasn't in Panama.
I was in Sydney. But as you'll hear, Maggie very
(02:37):
much was So can you tell me a little bit
about what brought you to where you are now, a
little bit about what you were doing in your pre
Panama life?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Okay, Well, I am in an advanced practice nurse. I've
been a nurse for over forty three years. I was,
and then I retired about a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Can I be rude, Maggie and ask you how old
you were when you retired. I was sixty two, right, great,
So that's that's quite a good young age.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Right, and in US term, that considered early. But I
wanted to continue doing some business and I thought I
would retire in Africa somewhere. So I went and did
some scoutings over there, and I was like, I'm not
feeling it. I had come to Panama to see the Canal.
(03:33):
It was a bucket item list, and I fell in
love with the country when I came. I remember vividly
sitting in a boat. I had gone on a trip,
and then I sat there in the boat and I
was like, this is nice. I liked the way I
felt in that space so when I went back to
(03:54):
Africa and did some research, I checked the healthcare system.
I was like, I'm not feeling as good as I
did when I was in Panama. So I returned to
Panama a couple of times, and each time I came back,
the food, the weather, the people, I was like, I
really like this place. So that's how I ended up
in Panama. It was a connection to the place, the people,
(04:16):
the culture, and also the closeness to the States. So
I didn't feel like I was I had to travel
like fourteen hours for my kids to come see me,
So it wasn'tn easy transition.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Can I ask you that, when you were working as
a nurse for all those years and you know, raising
your kids and all the things, did you always dream
that you wanted to retire abroad? Like was the seed
that you knew it wasn't going to be in the US?
Was that always there? Can you remember how that started
for you?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Actually, No, I don't think I ever thought of retiring abroad.
I thought I would travel a lot, because I've always
loved to travel. But it was just, you know, things
were happening politically, the country was changing, and it was like, well,
maybe there is an alternative somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Did you know other women who had done it, who
got and retired overseas to a brand new country.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Well, I watched a lot of YouTube videos and you know,
and going to Africa, I met a bunch of people
who had retired there or younger people who had just
gone there for business. So I had become more you know,
acclimated to the idea. It wasn't so foreign. So when
(05:35):
I decided to quit my job early and to travel
around and scout, and then it was like, oh, I
can do this. Then you start doing research in terms
of cost of living, lifestyle, then it became more acceptable
in my mind that I could do it. But it
wasn't something that, oh, I've been to Panama twenty years
(05:58):
ago and I'd always want to return. Some people have
that story. I don't.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
It's interesting that I think sometimes the world can think
that your adventures are behind you when you're one, you're older.
You know that like traveling to exotic, exciting places is
for young people and all that kind of stuff. But
that is clearly not the case. I mean, obviously, what
you've done in setting up single women retiring abroad is
(06:23):
tapped into the idea that you can keep having adventures
and have the life you want no matter what. And
in fact, this might be the perfect time to do it.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Would you agree exactly? And you know, when you're doing
some research, Even when I was considering Panama and other places,
there is a study that was done by university and
they find that people are starting to think about the
possibility of retiring abroad in their fifties. So I think
it's becoming more acceptable that you can have the lower
(06:56):
cost of living, you can have the adventure, then you
can have more money to travel, you know, if you're
not bugged down by you know, aging parents for example,
or healthcare system where you feel like you know, being
treated right. So I think there are a lot of
factors that converge to make the idea of retiring abroad
a little bit more palatable to a lot of us.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
What did your family think of the idea?
Speaker 3 (07:20):
You know, that's the.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Question I get a lot, and I tell them I've
always been a free spirit, you know. I remember when
I sold my business early nineties, I took a couple
of years and traveled around the globe. So when I
was ready, they were like, oh, that's Okay, we'd already
thought you'd go somewhere. Yeah, right, So I did not
have the struggle that some people have in terms of
(07:43):
telling their families and getting resistance from that.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Now, and do you it was kind of the thought
of setting up like single women retiring abroad. Do you
think that there are women who would love to do
this for you know, their post work life, but they
might feel worried about doing it on their own if
they're not in a couple. Is that kind of the
idea is to give support and encouragement to women like, no,
(08:07):
you can still go and do this without.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Exactly And I think for me, I tell people I
do some consultation now, but I tell them you need
to know your why why are you doing it? Because
to me, if you have a strong why, whatever challenges
you encounter is going to bring you back to the
reason why you wanted to do this in the first place.
(08:32):
And my why I want to share it with you
is that as a clinician and having been or experience
a healthcare system for my patient on the other side,
as a provider, I just did not want to age
in that system of being in a facility and having
people take care of you. I absolutely reject that in
(08:55):
my mind. So I wanted to create a model of
aging and that's what's why is about. It's creating a
module of aging abroad that is affordable and sustainable on
my turn, meaning I want to be at home and
if I need some help, the help comes to me,
versus me being forced to enter a facility. So once
(09:18):
I did that and I crystallized that, then I saw
talking to women, I saw watching videos and people were
asking the same questions. They're like, you know what, my
social security is this much. I don't think I can
live comfortably in the US because of that. Are there
any options? And then a little light bulb went off
in my head and I'm like, well, you know what,
(09:38):
I did it and I'm here. Therefore I can help
other women to follow in my path. Yes, you can
do it. I'll show you exactly how to do it.
And that's what single women is. And then now on
the ground, we have a sisterhood where we're trying to
support each other. So it feeds my soul for the
need to be creative, to always have goals. That retirement
(10:02):
doesn't mean I'm going to sit here and try to
play golf and play pickable. I don't do any of those.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Not your saying. It's interesting because obviously here in Australia
we have a different kind of health system, right, so
we have more support for people, no question. However, the
cost of living is, you know, just like in America,
just like in lots of other places, means that for
many many people who thought that maybe their retirement funds
(10:30):
here we have a kind of this thing called superannuation
where you pay into it through your working life and
then you get access to it later. But you would
imagine like what that can buy you. Now, the lifestyle
that that can afford you that you maybe have been
dreaming of has changed a lot with how expensive everything is.
So I think that in Australia that's why a lot
of people might be looking to parts of Asia or
other places to do this. But obviously doing this at
(10:53):
this stage of life, and this is what you're just
talking about, is your considerations of choosing a place are
quite different than they would be if you were backpacking
at nineteen, right, So how do you go about finding
out whether or not what you just described is possible
in country?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You don't know?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
So you know what the health system is like, like,
what are the main considerations you tell women to look
into to choose their place.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I have developed what I call it's an assessment tool.
I tell people, the assessment tool is going to say
this is me, these are my likes and dislikes in retirement.
If I were to choose the ideal place, what I
would I be looking for? Is it cost of living,
cost of health care. And for us doing my research,
(11:40):
we have three main things that we look for. The
cost of living, it has to be less than what
you had wherever you're coming from. Otherwise, what's the point
cost of health care? That is very prohibitive for people
in my country where people are making choices between buying
medications or buying food right. And then the third thing
(12:01):
is the presence of an expert community. So to me,
I tell these people know your why and if you
have these three things and we have some other factors,
you know, a distance, weather, language, all the things that
it's like it is it a deal breaker or can
you work through it? Right? So those three things you
(12:24):
must have, especially because of our age group, healthcare has
to be on the top of the list. You have
to reduce your cost of living and I said, you
don't need to be a pioneer. You want to have
a community that can embrace you and support you.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And is that what you found in Patama? Is the
Are there a lot of people doing what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Some people are doing things, But I think our group
is unique in the sense that I found my niche
early and I find that that is something that I
was blessed to find, you know, I was I had
clarity that this was this group that I was going
to focus on and provide services for. Other groups are
(13:05):
like more social groups. You know, they go here on
trips and stuff, which is but I'm not the kind
of person that just wants to go go go here,
go here, go there. I need to have something of
essense that I feel like I'm contributing, I'm helping, I'm building.
So I've created community here, our group of sisters we
(13:26):
call the SWAT Sisters. I started that, so we all here.
You're in the hospital, we got you. You need somebody
to translate for you, we got you. I speak Spanish,
I teach Spanish. So if it's not there, you create it.
But I think women need to be clear, and I'm like,
are you heavy in debt. That's no way to come
(13:47):
here with a lot of debt. Right, do you have
aging parents that you're responsible for? Those are not things
that we can get away from. I don't have that situation.
But if somebody has aging parents and you're not going
to be able to relax and enjoy retirement if you
have to worry about that and the guilt won't let
you enjoy your retirement. So when we come, we go
(14:09):
through all that, and I always tell them maybe not now,
maybe maybe a little bit. You know, you need a
little time to clear out your finances and try to
see what other options you have for your aging parents,
your home. It's a big decision.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
After the break, Maggie shares a moment when she knew
moving abroad was the perfect decision for her, and another
that made her question whether it might have been a mistake.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Stay with us.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Tell me a time. You know, when you were telling
me before about when you chose Panama, you were sitting
on this boat and you were like it felt right.
Tell me what life is like in Panama. On a
day when you're like this was the best choice ever?
Like why, tell me a great one? And then I
want you to tell me because nothing is perfect. Of course,
(15:00):
then I want you to tell me something that you
know has been a little bit challenging.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Well, I think the other day I was telling someone
I was took the metro because I don't drive here,
so and then I'm blessed that they have a metro
system and a good bus system and Uber is super affordable.
So I remember I was in this little area that
isn't a little bit busy. So the energy of the
place is Panama. So you get off the subway, somebody's
(15:28):
trying to sell you trash bag for your kitchen, and
then there is a stand with avocados and pineapples. I
can go there and get that and get right on
the train to get home.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
And I was.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Walking there and I said, this is still a good place.
The feeling of feeling comfortable that you can blend in,
that you don't stick out, and people are happy, it
rubs off on you. So for me, it's almost every
day I love to get out and just in there
(16:00):
with the people. I'll sit on the bus and listen
to the conversation because I speak Spanish. I hear these
little old men talking politics, and I'm sitting there, I'm
like they probably don't think I understand it. That is
always a good thing for me. It kind of reinforces
every day that I made the right decision. And it's
been two and a half.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Years, so that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And in a difficult situation when I got robbed two years.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Ago, tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
But just I mean, not that I want to dwell
on the negative, but I imagine that there'll be women listening
to this who one of the things they would worry
about about making a move like this alone is they
might worry about security or safety or feeling unsafe. Right.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
But I think for me, being a savvy traveler, it
was just my carelessness. I was in an area that
was very touristy and you know that, and I watched
so many videos about people get pick pocketed and those
double deckor buses and everything. And I was working with
a friend. Again, I'm in the zone. I'm excited. I
was wearing a backpack. That was the first no no.
(17:04):
If you're going to wear a backpack, wear it in
the front, right, And I had right and I had
my wallet with everything in it. Mistake number two. You
don't need to carry everything in your wallet when you
are out. So he bumped into me and he said,
excuse me, and he put this hoodie on and the
cameras we have cameras couldn't see his face. He was
(17:25):
a professional, but I had to go through that. But
I had to do the police and uh, you know,
have no money and trying to follow report. But I
did it, and I went to the bank and the
bank reimborced my money. That was the first thing that
reimbursed my money. So I tell people, don't make the
mistake that I made, and everybody will chime in, well
(17:47):
you should no better, oh dull. I'm like, yes, you're right.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
But you got through it, you know, like it happened,
and it didn't make you get on a plane home.
It made you go, okay, well we'll deal with this
like it's okay.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
And for them to understand that you need to have
this police report in hand. This is not a digital
place where you could say I'll email you this, email
you that. So understanding the culture that it's different from
what you used to is the first step in relaxing
and acclimating here.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Up next, Maggie opens up about the emotional challenges of
adjusting to life abroad and living on around. You've talked
about this amazing community you've built, but I imagine some
people would think, Oh, I would miss my family. I
might get lonely. What do you tell people about the
emotional adjustment to being somewhere different by yourself.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
One other thing I tell women, I say, if you've
never traveled, you've never left your family, you've never left home,
You're probably going to have a heart of a time.
If you are one hundred percent responsible for everything, whether
it's your aging parents or your teenager or your adult
(19:03):
child who refuses to leave, or you don't allow to leave,
it happens. Be hard for you. If you're not a
hands off kind of person. And you're not, you can't
think on your feet. You know, if you if you
get into a situation you got to say okay, one, two, three,
watch neck boom and be able to make decisions like that.
It's going to be hard for you. With families. I
(19:25):
tell people, if you're really close, make sure you budget
for frequent trips back. Yeah, because I remember when I
moved from one state to another. Oh, I was so homesick.
I left the northeastern part of the US, and I
moved south. My first Christmas, it was eighty five degrees
and I felt that I was in the twilight zone.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
You mean, no snow, no farther bliss.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
What is this? I felt so sad. So I went
home and then it was like ten degrees and the
snow was this high, and I'm like, okay, I know
why I left. Now I'm good.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
This is a familiar story to me, Maggie. I left
England to come and live in Australia. I'm like, yeah, no,
this is the hot Christmas is a strange, but better
than snows.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
But I think going back and forth is a nice
compromise for some people just to kind of check in
the check on you. Oh are you doing okay? Well
we're okay, you can come visit, and then it kind
of set off after a little while. But some people
tell me point blank, I couldn't leave my dog, I
could leave my family. I Will says, I'm so glad
(20:31):
you have clarity.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, it's not for everybody. Yeah, it's not for everybody.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
You need to have clarity, right, but it.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Is for people who have got that as you say
that independent free spirit, It's like.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yes, and want to explore you know, because the language
could be a good challenge for some people. Of course,
it's not easy to feel people talking, you know, and
you can't understand right, so that should weigh heavily on
your decision as to where you go.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
You already spoke Spanish, I assume I did, so that
was also part of.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
That made it easier for me. And I said, you
can't compare your situation to mine because I had this
going for me. Yeah, so so you consider an English
speaking country?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
This has been an amazing conversation. I guess I'd like
to ask you, Baggy, without its sounding too brutal, do
you think this is a Is it for you a
permanent move? This is where you're going to be now?
Is that how you see it? Or do you like
it's year by year?
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Like?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
What? How do you look at the future?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
You know? I spoke to a couple of my lady
sisters the other day and this one said, oh, I
just signed a three year list or I just signed
a five year Listen. I'm not wow. I just don't
feel because of my spirit of adventure, I don't know
if this is going to be the end, but for me,
(21:52):
I'm not planning on going anywhere, but I kind of
like to keep my options open because I don't know
what might happen in the future. I might want to
explore some other countries. So now I can't even I
told the sisters, I'm like, I'm not going to sign
it to your lease. I don't want to feel tight
like that. Some people want to buy, and I'm like,
(22:14):
I don't want to buy a place because then I
feel like I'm attached and I can't move. I like
to be mobile.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, but you don't imagine going back to the US.
You don't know, that's not what you imagine.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Now, that would be by choice, and you know, not
to get into the details of the stuff that everybody
knows what's going on. Nobody that I know here would
willingly go back. Yeah, yeah, it you just never know.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I Have you enjoyed another one of these special episodes
of mid where we're talking about that next phase of life,
that post work era, and whether you're thinking about moving
to a farm or moving abroad light Maggie being.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Prepared gives you the choice.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Follow the link in our show notes about Aware super
for more about that and for advice for Australians thinking
about retiring overseas like Maggie. We'll put a link in
our show notes for good places to start for help
and information. The executive producer of this episode is named A. Brown,
The producer is Charlie Blackman, and there's been audio production
from Jacob Brown. Will see you next time.
You're listening to a Mother mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. What if you've always
wanted to live somewhere else and life hasn't given that to.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
You yet, but the pool won't be wished away.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
What if you did it once before and you remember
the freedom, the treat of the new, the energy released
by fresh places, by a different culture, a true restart.
What if you're looking at your post work act and
you're thinking, would the pressure be less somewhere else? Would
the joy be multiplied? Would my dollar go further? Would
(00:50):
my wanderlust be sated? If I lived overseas Asia, perhaps
where many post work ossies are living for chunks of
time on retirement visas or long stays, swapping the suburbs
for seaside apartments, or Portugal or Spain or Mexico.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
What would it be like?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Would you be would you be safe? Would you feel
like a new version of yourself? If you've wondered about
any of this. As another one of our bonus episodes
about post work life in partnership with Aware Super, We've
got someone we'd like you to meet Maggie Lazarre is
American and three years ago she moved alone to Panama
(01:31):
in Central America, and she was so bombarded with questions
of how she did it, because she's started social media
accounts men talking publicly about how much she enjoys it.
She kept getting asked by everybody how she retired alone
to another country, and so she started a community called
single Women Retiring Abroad. And whether you're single or not,
(01:54):
and wherever you might be dreaming about heading off to
when you don't have to go to work every day,
you're going to like Maggie's story and her energy and
her honesty and her tales of what's working, what's not,
what she loves about her choice, and what she'd do differently.
So got some great advice for the questions to ask yourself.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Before you make a big decision like this.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Of course, considerations for Australians considering a move like this
are a bit different to Maggie's, and you'll find some
links to relevant info in the show notes about that.
But look, I think you're going to be inspired and
entertained by Maggie all the same. We spoke to her
in Panama just last week. Well, I wasn't in Panama.
I was in Sydney. But as you'll hear, Maggie very
(02:37):
much was So can you tell me a little bit
about what brought you to where you are now, a
little bit about what you were doing in your pre
Panama life?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Okay, Well, I am in an advanced practice nurse. I've
been a nurse for over forty three years. I was,
and then I retired about a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Can I be rude, Maggie and ask you how old
you were when you retired. I was sixty two, right, great,
So that's that's quite a good young age.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Right, and in US term, that considered early. But I
wanted to continue doing some business and I thought I
would retire in Africa somewhere. So I went and did
some scoutings over there, and I was like, I'm not
feeling it. I had come to Panama to see the Canal.
(03:33):
It was a bucket item list, and I fell in
love with the country when I came. I remember vividly
sitting in a boat. I had gone on a trip,
and then I sat there in the boat and I
was like, this is nice. I liked the way I
felt in that space so when I went back to
(03:54):
Africa and did some research, I checked the healthcare system.
I was like, I'm not feeling as good as I
did when I was in Panama. So I returned to
Panama a couple of times, and each time I came back,
the food, the weather, the people, I was like, I
really like this place. So that's how I ended up
in Panama. It was a connection to the place, the people,
(04:16):
the culture, and also the closeness to the States. So
I didn't feel like I was I had to travel
like fourteen hours for my kids to come see me,
So it wasn'tn easy transition.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Can I ask you that, when you were working as
a nurse for all those years and you know, raising
your kids and all the things, did you always dream
that you wanted to retire abroad? Like was the seed
that you knew it wasn't going to be in the US?
Was that always there? Can you remember how that started
for you?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Actually, No, I don't think I ever thought of retiring abroad.
I thought I would travel a lot, because I've always
loved to travel. But it was just, you know, things
were happening politically, the country was changing, and it was like, well,
maybe there is an alternative somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Did you know other women who had done it, who
got and retired overseas to a brand new country.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Well, I watched a lot of YouTube videos and you know,
and going to Africa, I met a bunch of people
who had retired there or younger people who had just
gone there for business. So I had become more you know,
acclimated to the idea. It wasn't so foreign. So when
(05:35):
I decided to quit my job early and to travel
around and scout, and then it was like, oh, I
can do this. Then you start doing research in terms
of cost of living, lifestyle, then it became more acceptable
in my mind that I could do it. But it
wasn't something that, oh, I've been to Panama twenty years
(05:58):
ago and I'd always want to return. Some people have
that story. I don't.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
It's interesting that I think sometimes the world can think
that your adventures are behind you when you're one, you're older.
You know that like traveling to exotic, exciting places is
for young people and all that kind of stuff. But
that is clearly not the case. I mean, obviously, what
you've done in setting up single women retiring abroad is
(06:23):
tapped into the idea that you can keep having adventures
and have the life you want no matter what. And
in fact, this might be the perfect time to do it.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Would you agree exactly? And you know, when you're doing
some research, Even when I was considering Panama and other places,
there is a study that was done by university and
they find that people are starting to think about the
possibility of retiring abroad in their fifties. So I think
it's becoming more acceptable that you can have the lower
(06:56):
cost of living, you can have the adventure, then you
can have more money to travel, you know, if you're
not bugged down by you know, aging parents for example,
or healthcare system where you feel like you know, being
treated right. So I think there are a lot of
factors that converge to make the idea of retiring abroad
a little bit more palatable to a lot of us.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
What did your family think of the idea?
Speaker 3 (07:20):
You know, that's the.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Question I get a lot, and I tell them I've
always been a free spirit, you know. I remember when
I sold my business early nineties, I took a couple
of years and traveled around the globe. So when I
was ready, they were like, oh, that's Okay, we'd already
thought you'd go somewhere. Yeah, right, So I did not
have the struggle that some people have in terms of
(07:43):
telling their families and getting resistance from that.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Now, and do you it was kind of the thought
of setting up like single women retiring abroad. Do you
think that there are women who would love to do
this for you know, their post work life, but they
might feel worried about doing it on their own if
they're not in a couple. Is that kind of the
idea is to give support and encouragement to women like, no,
(08:07):
you can still go and do this without.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Exactly And I think for me, I tell people I
do some consultation now, but I tell them you need
to know your why why are you doing it? Because
to me, if you have a strong why, whatever challenges
you encounter is going to bring you back to the
reason why you wanted to do this in the first place.
(08:32):
And my why I want to share it with you
is that as a clinician and having been or experience
a healthcare system for my patient on the other side,
as a provider, I just did not want to age
in that system of being in a facility and having
people take care of you. I absolutely reject that in
(08:55):
my mind. So I wanted to create a model of
aging and that's what's why is about. It's creating a
module of aging abroad that is affordable and sustainable on
my turn, meaning I want to be at home and
if I need some help, the help comes to me,
versus me being forced to enter a facility. So once
(09:18):
I did that and I crystallized that, then I saw
talking to women, I saw watching videos and people were
asking the same questions. They're like, you know what, my
social security is this much. I don't think I can
live comfortably in the US because of that. Are there
any options? And then a little light bulb went off
in my head and I'm like, well, you know what,
(09:38):
I did it and I'm here. Therefore I can help
other women to follow in my path. Yes, you can
do it. I'll show you exactly how to do it.
And that's what single women is. And then now on
the ground, we have a sisterhood where we're trying to
support each other. So it feeds my soul for the
need to be creative, to always have goals. That retirement
(10:02):
doesn't mean I'm going to sit here and try to
play golf and play pickable. I don't do any of those.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Not your saying. It's interesting because obviously here in Australia
we have a different kind of health system, right, so
we have more support for people, no question. However, the
cost of living is, you know, just like in America,
just like in lots of other places, means that for
many many people who thought that maybe their retirement funds
(10:30):
here we have a kind of this thing called superannuation
where you pay into it through your working life and
then you get access to it later. But you would
imagine like what that can buy you. Now, the lifestyle
that that can afford you that you maybe have been
dreaming of has changed a lot with how expensive everything is.
So I think that in Australia that's why a lot
of people might be looking to parts of Asia or
other places to do this. But obviously doing this at
(10:53):
this stage of life, and this is what you're just
talking about, is your considerations of choosing a place are
quite different than they would be if you were backpacking
at nineteen, right, So how do you go about finding
out whether or not what you just described is possible
in country?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You don't know?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
So you know what the health system is like, like,
what are the main considerations you tell women to look
into to choose their place.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I have developed what I call it's an assessment tool.
I tell people, the assessment tool is going to say
this is me, these are my likes and dislikes in retirement.
If I were to choose the ideal place, what I
would I be looking for? Is it cost of living,
cost of health care. And for us doing my research,
(11:40):
we have three main things that we look for. The
cost of living, it has to be less than what
you had wherever you're coming from. Otherwise, what's the point
cost of health care? That is very prohibitive for people
in my country where people are making choices between buying
medications or buying food right. And then the third thing
(12:01):
is the presence of an expert community. So to me,
I tell these people know your why and if you
have these three things and we have some other factors,
you know, a distance, weather, language, all the things that
it's like it is it a deal breaker or can
you work through it? Right? So those three things you
(12:24):
must have, especially because of our age group, healthcare has
to be on the top of the list. You have
to reduce your cost of living and I said, you
don't need to be a pioneer. You want to have
a community that can embrace you and support you.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And is that what you found in Patama? Is the
Are there a lot of people doing what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Some people are doing things, But I think our group
is unique in the sense that I found my niche
early and I find that that is something that I
was blessed to find, you know, I was I had
clarity that this was this group that I was going
to focus on and provide services for. Other groups are
(13:05):
like more social groups. You know, they go here on
trips and stuff, which is but I'm not the kind
of person that just wants to go go go here,
go here, go there. I need to have something of
essense that I feel like I'm contributing, I'm helping, I'm building.
So I've created community here, our group of sisters we
(13:26):
call the SWAT Sisters. I started that, so we all here.
You're in the hospital, we got you. You need somebody
to translate for you, we got you. I speak Spanish,
I teach Spanish. So if it's not there, you create it.
But I think women need to be clear, and I'm like,
are you heavy in debt. That's no way to come
(13:47):
here with a lot of debt. Right, do you have
aging parents that you're responsible for? Those are not things
that we can get away from. I don't have that situation.
But if somebody has aging parents and you're not going
to be able to relax and enjoy retirement if you
have to worry about that and the guilt won't let
you enjoy your retirement. So when we come, we go
(14:09):
through all that, and I always tell them maybe not now,
maybe maybe a little bit. You know, you need a
little time to clear out your finances and try to
see what other options you have for your aging parents,
your home. It's a big decision.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
After the break, Maggie shares a moment when she knew
moving abroad was the perfect decision for her, and another
that made her question whether it might have been a mistake.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Stay with us.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Tell me a time. You know, when you were telling
me before about when you chose Panama, you were sitting
on this boat and you were like it felt right.
Tell me what life is like in Panama. On a
day when you're like this was the best choice ever?
Like why, tell me a great one? And then I
want you to tell me because nothing is perfect. Of course,
(15:00):
then I want you to tell me something that you
know has been a little bit challenging.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Well, I think the other day I was telling someone
I was took the metro because I don't drive here,
so and then I'm blessed that they have a metro
system and a good bus system and Uber is super affordable.
So I remember I was in this little area that
isn't a little bit busy. So the energy of the
place is Panama. So you get off the subway, somebody's
(15:28):
trying to sell you trash bag for your kitchen, and
then there is a stand with avocados and pineapples. I
can go there and get that and get right on
the train to get home.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
And I was.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Walking there and I said, this is still a good place.
The feeling of feeling comfortable that you can blend in,
that you don't stick out, and people are happy, it
rubs off on you. So for me, it's almost every
day I love to get out and just in there
(16:00):
with the people. I'll sit on the bus and listen
to the conversation because I speak Spanish. I hear these
little old men talking politics, and I'm sitting there, I'm
like they probably don't think I understand it. That is
always a good thing for me. It kind of reinforces
every day that I made the right decision. And it's
been two and a half.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Years, so that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And in a difficult situation when I got robbed two years.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Ago, tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
But just I mean, not that I want to dwell
on the negative, but I imagine that there'll be women listening
to this who one of the things they would worry
about about making a move like this alone is they
might worry about security or safety or feeling unsafe. Right.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
But I think for me, being a savvy traveler, it
was just my carelessness. I was in an area that
was very touristy and you know that, and I watched
so many videos about people get pick pocketed and those
double deckor buses and everything. And I was working with
a friend. Again, I'm in the zone. I'm excited. I
was wearing a backpack. That was the first no no.
(17:04):
If you're going to wear a backpack, wear it in
the front, right, And I had right and I had
my wallet with everything in it. Mistake number two. You
don't need to carry everything in your wallet when you
are out. So he bumped into me and he said,
excuse me, and he put this hoodie on and the
cameras we have cameras couldn't see his face. He was
(17:25):
a professional, but I had to go through that. But
I had to do the police and uh, you know,
have no money and trying to follow report. But I
did it, and I went to the bank and the
bank reimborced my money. That was the first thing that
reimbursed my money. So I tell people, don't make the
mistake that I made, and everybody will chime in, well
(17:47):
you should no better, oh dull. I'm like, yes, you're right.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
But you got through it, you know, like it happened,
and it didn't make you get on a plane home.
It made you go, okay, well we'll deal with this
like it's okay.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
And for them to understand that you need to have
this police report in hand. This is not a digital
place where you could say I'll email you this, email
you that. So understanding the culture that it's different from
what you used to is the first step in relaxing
and acclimating here.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Up next, Maggie opens up about the emotional challenges of
adjusting to life abroad and living on around. You've talked
about this amazing community you've built, but I imagine some
people would think, Oh, I would miss my family. I
might get lonely. What do you tell people about the
emotional adjustment to being somewhere different by yourself.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
One other thing I tell women, I say, if you've
never traveled, you've never left your family, you've never left home,
You're probably going to have a heart of a time.
If you are one hundred percent responsible for everything, whether
it's your aging parents or your teenager or your adult
(19:03):
child who refuses to leave, or you don't allow to leave,
it happens. Be hard for you. If you're not a
hands off kind of person. And you're not, you can't
think on your feet. You know, if you if you
get into a situation you got to say okay, one, two, three,
watch neck boom and be able to make decisions like that.
It's going to be hard for you. With families. I
(19:25):
tell people, if you're really close, make sure you budget
for frequent trips back. Yeah, because I remember when I
moved from one state to another. Oh, I was so homesick.
I left the northeastern part of the US, and I
moved south. My first Christmas, it was eighty five degrees
and I felt that I was in the twilight zone.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
You mean, no snow, no farther bliss.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
What is this? I felt so sad. So I went
home and then it was like ten degrees and the
snow was this high, and I'm like, okay, I know
why I left. Now I'm good.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
This is a familiar story to me, Maggie. I left
England to come and live in Australia. I'm like, yeah, no,
this is the hot Christmas is a strange, but better
than snows.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
But I think going back and forth is a nice
compromise for some people just to kind of check in
the check on you. Oh are you doing okay? Well
we're okay, you can come visit, and then it kind
of set off after a little while. But some people
tell me point blank, I couldn't leave my dog, I
could leave my family. I Will says, I'm so glad
(20:31):
you have clarity.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, it's not for everybody. Yeah, it's not for everybody.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
You need to have clarity, right, but it.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Is for people who have got that as you say
that independent free spirit, It's like.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yes, and want to explore you know, because the language
could be a good challenge for some people. Of course,
it's not easy to feel people talking, you know, and
you can't understand right, so that should weigh heavily on
your decision as to where you go.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
You already spoke Spanish, I assume I did, so that
was also part of.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
That made it easier for me. And I said, you
can't compare your situation to mine because I had this
going for me. Yeah, so so you consider an English
speaking country?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
This has been an amazing conversation. I guess I'd like
to ask you, Baggy, without its sounding too brutal, do
you think this is a Is it for you a
permanent move? This is where you're going to be now?
Is that how you see it? Or do you like
it's year by year?
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Like?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
What? How do you look at the future?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
You know? I spoke to a couple of my lady
sisters the other day and this one said, oh, I
just signed a three year list or I just signed
a five year Listen. I'm not wow. I just don't
feel because of my spirit of adventure, I don't know
if this is going to be the end, but for me,
(21:52):
I'm not planning on going anywhere, but I kind of
like to keep my options open because I don't know
what might happen in the future. I might want to
explore some other countries. So now I can't even I
told the sisters, I'm like, I'm not going to sign
it to your lease. I don't want to feel tight
like that. Some people want to buy, and I'm like,
(22:14):
I don't want to buy a place because then I
feel like I'm attached and I can't move. I like
to be mobile.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, but you don't imagine going back to the US.
You don't know, that's not what you imagine.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Now, that would be by choice, and you know, not
to get into the details of the stuff that everybody
knows what's going on. Nobody that I know here would
willingly go back. Yeah, yeah, it you just never know.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I Have you enjoyed another one of these special episodes
of mid where we're talking about that next phase of life,
that post work era, and whether you're thinking about moving
to a farm or moving abroad light Maggie being.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Prepared gives you the choice.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Follow the link in our show notes about Aware super
for more about that and for advice for Australians thinking
about retiring overseas like Maggie. We'll put a link in
our show notes for good places to start for help
and information. The executive producer of this episode is named A. Brown,
The producer is Charlie Blackman, and there's been audio production
from Jacob Brown. Will see you next time.
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