July 14, 2025 • 41 mins
In this season of MID, we are answering the dilemmas and questions that you, our listeners, have sent us. This episode is all about our MID relationship with our bodies, and Holly has enlisted one of Australia's foremost nutritionists and dietitians, Susie Burrell.
The dilemmas Susie and Holly tackle in this episode are:
- My friends are telling me to get weight loss jabs...but I don't want to remove the pleasure of eating from my life.
- My daughter is obsessed with "clean eating" - should I be worried?
- My body is changing so much in midlife...the exercise and diet that used to work for me isn't working anymore...help!
Do you have a dilemma you'd like to send us? You can find us on helpme@mamamia.com.au
To listen to Susie's weekly podcast, which covers all areas of nutrition: http://www.thenutritioncouch.com
For her evidence-based supplements: http://www.designedbydietitians.com
Or to find a dietitian who specialises in Women & Peri: www.daa.asn.au
THE END BITS:
Share your feedback! Send us a voice message or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au
Follow us on Instagram @MidbyMamamia or sign up to the MID newsletter, dropping weekly here.
CREDITS:
Guest: Susie Burrell
Host: Holly Wainwright
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Senior Producer: Tahli Blackman
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to Amma mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. Lean in close, friends,
drop your voice. I'm going to talk about something we're
not supposed to talk about in a way I wouldn't
dream of doing if there were people under thirty round,
or my teenage daughter, or even my very best self.
(00:37):
But I've asked her to step out of the room
for a moment so that I can be truthful, unvarnished
about something we're really not supposed to say. I still
struggle with my weight. You're laughing now. I can feel
it because you're thinking, well, who doesn't. You're thinking, I've
had years of that, decades of wasting hours and days
(00:58):
of my life, probably worrying about the circumference of my thighs,
the softness of my chin. How many roles can be
tucked away into the waistband of a helpful g You're
also laughing now because you're looking at whatever version of
me you might have seen out there in the world,
and depending on your own relationship with your own body,
you're thinking I'm right or wrong to worry about it.
(01:21):
You're holding yourself up against that imagined version, and you're
making judgment calls because we all do that. We all
still do that, We're just not allowed to say so.
Generation X, I'm often told by my younger friends and colleagues,
are toxic about weight. We were marinated in diet culture
(01:41):
and cooked up in a world where women talked about
being on a diet constantly, unthinkingly, as if it were
a perpetual state of womanhood. We could tell you what
Jennifer Aniston had for lunch for eight years straight, and
what Oprah had to give up, which was eating by
the way to drag that infamous wagon of fat across
a TV soundstage, and we counted points and mercilessly cut
(02:04):
out entire food groups. We lived through Kate Moss SI zero,
just as our mothers had lived through the Dawn of Twiggy.
We used words like slimming when it came to colors
and cuts, and we positioned ourselves at the middle back
of all group photos, safety in numbers when it came
to hiding our true shape. Now we know better, We
(02:27):
see the damage that it did. All that relentless self
critique of being at war with our bodies, The vicious
inner critic targeting our very flesh and the young people
who have their own battles to fight against the perfect, filtered, smooth,
shrunk bodies of Instagram, every bit as toxic as the
airbrush magazine version, but now cloaked in the language of
(02:49):
health and self care have taught us not to ever
ever talk about it. But just as we know better
and try to make friends with ourselves, a new era starts.
Hormones shift and so does our shape. All those tricks,
the good ones and the bad ones we've learned to
keep ourselves in a bracket of fears. Okay about our
(03:10):
bodies have stopped working, and a redistribution is upon us
also now it really is about health. It's not a
lie or a smoke screen to say that, somewhere in
mid we realize that what we want to live long
and well is a body we don't need to love,
but we need to work all that. To say, in
(03:31):
my hushed tones that it's okay, friends, that we're all
a bit fucked up about this. It's okay that we're
still figuring it out as proper grown up women. How
to remove emotion and judgment from what really are merely
numbers and facts. You're safe here. It's okay. Hello. I'm
(03:52):
Holly Wainwright and I am Mid, Midlife, mid Family, mid Mouthful.
Welcome back to Mid. This is season six, and we
are so happy to have you with us. We're doing
something a bit different this season on MID. We are
unpacking your dilemmas. You might have heard me do an
episode about this with Marian Keyes in season five, where
(04:12):
basically you sent in your problems big and small and
we unpacked them together. It was so popular and we
enjoyed it so much that we decided to do that
as our theme for episode six, but on lots of
different topics, so all things sex and relationships and faces
and family and today about weight. Some of these episodes
are going to sound a bit different to the ones
(04:33):
you might be used to. Some of them are going
to have a big, long thinking introduction like today's because
I just couldn't help myself, but that will pour out
of me. But sometimes we're going to get right down
to business. But always, this season of Mid is going
to be all about you, You and us and Mid
and as I just confessed, I am as messed up
(04:53):
about my body. As the next woman, But I've been
trying to make friends with her for the longest time,
and there's a woman in my orbit who at times
has helped me do that while never trying to turn
me into someone else, that is, someone who doesn't like food.
Susie bar is a dietitian, and a few years ago
she helped me lose a significant amount of weight after
(05:15):
my doctor told me I should Many many of us
have been in that doctor's appointment, right. Susie has all
the qualifications that a lot of people shouting about weight
management on social media do not, and she also has
a very agnostic, practical attitude to this topic. She also
knows about all the new developments in food world. Yes
we're talking about GLP one's the new world of weight
(05:38):
loss medications. And she knows that most women don't have
loads of time for meal prepping and would probably still
like to have a glass of wine or a piece
of cake or a plate of dips sometimes to make
life a little less. So I knew that Susie was
the phone a friend I needed to help us answer
(05:58):
your dilemmas about body, food and weight at this stage
of our lives. Of course, I need to tell you
that as we answer these dilemmas, you should never embark
on any sea significant change to your diet or make
any decisions about medication, weight management, or otherwise without seeing
your doctor. The information discussed in this episode is not
(06:20):
intended to replace professional medical advice. And also, this conversation
is general and does include a few numbers. If any
of that is triggering or difficult for you, I will
not be offended if you skip this episode and links
to organization who can help with any disordered eating issues
in our show notes. But if you are here for
(06:40):
the honest body chat, welcome to the Dilemma Couch. Susie Burrell. Susie,
I couldn't think of anyone better to answer these dilemmas
with me, because you're the person I text when I
have dilemmas about these kind of.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Things happen occasionally. I'm always happy to help her.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I'm always happy to help just occasionally. So our first
question from a mid listener, she says, I've always been
a little over the weight that my doctor would like
to say see me at As I've gotten older, it's
gotten harder to shift a few kilos or so when
I need to well I think we all hear you
there and the scales of creptop. Now friends are telling
(07:19):
me to get on the weight loss jabs. Those are
her words, the weight loss jabs. But here's the thing.
I love food. I love little treats. I love a
glass of wine. My appetite, while it's not out of control,
is part of my personality. To me, I don't want
to become a different person. I don't want to remove
a pleasure from my life. There are few enough pockets
(07:40):
of joy with caring for my family and working hard.
But I feel like I'm being guilted into this option
that everyone is talking about. I guess the first place
we have to go there is here's a woman who
sounds kind of very normal in inverted commas, and that
it is harder for all of us to shift weight
as we get older. And if you're someone who has
(08:01):
always loved little treats, should she address this first of all?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
First of all, it's complicated, as so many things are.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I think.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
First, the first thing I gleaned off that case study
for whatever better word, is the focus on weight. Now,
working with women, as I have for almost thirty years now,
I really don't focus a lot on weight. I really
focus on waste measurement because waste measurement is so much
more telling about what is going on with your health,
particularly as we move into our forties and fifties and
(08:29):
beyond and we have key hormonal changes.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Why Why is that? Because so you literally saying, instead
of standing on the scale, get a tape measure.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Absolutely, absolutely, because it removes that whole idea of a
number weight. Can you know, differ by as much as
two kilos in a single day, It's not a really
great measure. If you're stronger, if you've got more muscle mass,
you're a more muscular frame, you'll be a heavier person.
So some of those sort of standards we grew up with,
wanting to be fifty kilos a're just never going to
be relevant for some people.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Is that kind of why people have started to question
the idea of your BMI because they're like, it's not everybody.
There isn't an ideal weight. We're so different and that
we're learning more about it. Is that why.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
BMI is a population based measure to infer public health.
It's not overly relevant for individuals. So for my women
and I am a clinician I see women every week.
I'm looking at a couple of key measurements. I'm looking
at what I call where your small waist is, because
for anyone who's had kids, you'll know your kind of
waiste drops down a little bit. So I'll do the
sort of leanest, tightest part which in a younger female
(09:30):
maybe rand your belly button still and I do ideally
you want it to be less than eighty centimeters. So
that's the first measure, and then I'll get my ladies
to do a second, which is what I call your
lower waist. Now, for some of us that may be
a hip, it may be where if you've had a
C section, your weight's kind of moved down to and
really we do want that to be less than ninety
So that straightaway tells me so much metabolically what's going
(09:51):
on with my clients and indirectly can be linked to
where the people may need medical weight loss support.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Why does why are those numbers more important than a
number on a scale, and also what does that tell you?
What does that waste number tell you? As an expert?
Speaker 3 (10:09):
That is telling me how well your insulin and glucose
regulation is, and what we know as you go through
perry and menopause, as we naturally lose our estrogen or
it declines, we're more likely to deposit weight centrally. It
also is indicative of those who may be at higher
risk of diabetes or insulin resistance, which would suggest weight
loss may be more difficult and in turn maybe down
(10:32):
the track or require medical weight loss support. So it
tells us so much. It also tells you if you're
losing body fat, if you are trying to lose weight,
because you can go and be on a calorie deficit
or starve yourself or have a low carb diet, and
you see the scales going down, But if your waist
isn't going down, you're probably wasting muscle mass, which is
the worst thing we can do as we get older
because we want more muscle mass. So if my clients,
(10:54):
I don't care if the scales don't go down, and
certainly I have clients who are weighing themselves. I don't
weigh them. I do everyone virtually, so it's up to them.
But I want the waist down because if the waist
is down, it's indicative of body fat loss.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
So it's a much.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Better measure of what's going on with your health and
your metabolism and basically optimizing body composition, because that's what
it is for women in our forties and beyond. It's
about building a healthy body that is functional. As we
get into our seventies, our eighties, our nineties. You know,
these generations of women will hopefully live old. You know
(11:27):
we're going to be around long time. We need these
bodies to be functional. So it's not about a weight
on the scale. It's about functional fitness where you carry
your weight, if you're still mobile and protecting your joints,
more than just a number on the scales.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Can I just ask you before we move on to
the more emotional side of our what our listeners asking us.
Everybody says this about you as you get older, muscle
mass really important? Don't lose muscle mass? Don't lose muscle mass?
Why is it important? Like for the people like me
who don't really understand science, maybe should have taken more
biology at school, Like why and particularly as you get older,
(12:03):
is it really important that you're not losing muscle mass?
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Muscle mass is our metabolically active tissue. It burns calor
is basically so it keeps our body healthy, but it
keeps our body strong because if you think about what
issues as we get older, we fall over, we have
brittle bones. If you've got more muscle mass, or preserve
your muscle mass, your body will be stronger. You'll be
able to eat more, as our listener is talking about,
(12:26):
because it actually burns calories, whereas you can if fat
mass doesn't do anything, it's just dead weight. Really now,
we do need some, but it's not got the metabolic benefits.
It basically burns and processes our glucose. So the more
muscle mass you have, the better it is for hormone control,
for burning more calories, for keeping our bodies strong, to
be able to lift heavy things as we get older,
(12:46):
to be able to climb stairs, go downstairs and not fall,
you know, hold on to things. You know, if you
go to fall and you've got a strong bone and
a strong muscle, you're more likely to be able to
protect yourself as you fall.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
All those little things which are much more important.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
One of the things I think about a lot as
I'm moving into my fifties. You don't want to move
like an old person and inverted comments, I mean even
just like having to dash for something, not having to
think twice about going upstairs or walking here or doing that,
or just like moving in a fluid, fast kind of way.
This is what we're talking about, right, is like being
(13:19):
able to do all that for longer rather than being
we can debilitated.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Picking up your grandkids term you know, carrying heavy shopping
bags and not having to worry and.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Being able to keep doing things you like, like if
you love running, for example, and heaps of women in
our mid age bracket hair will be runners or whatever
it is that they love doing, like being able to
do that.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
For longer, travel and go hiking for days at a time,
walking for long periods of time, being able to stand
on one leg and put your stockings on right, So
all of these functional.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Movement, and that's what it's about.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
It's getting your body fitter and healthier as you move
through the lifespan. So the weight, for me, it's not
a massive factor. It's much more about what's going on
in your body composition and getting you as functionally fit
and lean in a way as possible so your body's
better able to age gracefully.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
All right, Obviously, our listener wants to talk about weight loss.
She's calling them, we will call them what they're correctly called,
which is medical weight loss. Correct Now, everybody knows what
we're talking about when we're talking about that. I'm going
to say a couple of brand names here. If you're
wondering why we're not just saying them, it's because the
regulations around this are type as they should be. Right,
we're talking about medical weight loss injections like o Zempic,
(14:28):
like Manjaro. You would have heard about these right now.
You know a lot about this, SUSI. So I'd love
to know because a couple of years ago, if a
woman is in her midlife like me, and you're thinking,
I do want to reduce that waste size, I want
to lose some weight, I want to get in better shape,
whatever it is. We're talking about diet and exercise now,
and this is what's happening to this listener. Everybody's telling her,
(14:50):
like her mates are telling her, get yourself to the doctor,
get yourself on the japs. That's what everybody's saying, right.
And the thing is is I know that it's not
I know that it's not that simple, but it's certainly
much more mainstream and widespread than it was a couple
of years ago. Our listener is worry that she'll suddenly
(15:11):
not want to eat it at all, and it's a
massive pleasure in her life now. I know because I've
worked with you before, that you actually take into consideration
when you work with women, like is it important to
you to have little treats? Is it important to you
that you have that glass of wine on a Friday night?
Is it what? Blah blah blah. Our listener is almost
worried that she's not going to be herself if she
does try this medication. What's your experience.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I think the thing about medical weight loss is we
don't necessarily understand what it is. So I'll try and
explain it in as simple terms as possible, because for me,
it's very much linked to metabolic variables. It's not a
decision of whether or not you should try it or
want to, it's whether you need to. So the GOLP
one range of medical weight loss are basically working in
(15:54):
two key ways. They work on the hormonal system that
regulates glucose and insulin metabolism in the body, and they
control food noise and appetite due to changes in digestion,
so they basically slow down the movement of food through
the digestive track.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
You hear people saying I have always thought about food
and it's been a battle, and suddenly it's just not there.
That drive is not there.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
For those individuals.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
But it's not a matter of whether I want it
or not. It's whether you, as I said, whether you
need to. Because first of all, if you're looking at
relatively small amounts of weight. Now, so for example, I've
talked in waste measurement, if your wist is under ninety
or you've got a handful of kilos five or ten,
as a dietitian, I would not be even suggesting anything
like that unless you were predisposed to diabetes, you'd had
(16:41):
gestational diabetes or insulin resistance, which is a clinical issue
that may require clinical management. But as a dietitian, I
would always try and do it with diet and exercise
calories in optimizing metabolism for all those things. Now, once
you're getting too people with metabolic issues so pre diabetic,
they have insatiable appetite, they're carrying twenty thirty forty kilos,
(17:04):
it may be a viable option, but it's not just
a decision you make overnight. Start because the thing people
don't understand is not a matter of just taking a jab.
You have to change your diet, exercise, or they don't work.
They just mask appetite for short periods of time and
then as soon as you come off them, you just
go back to your old habits. So we always like
to focus on diet and exercise and lifestyle first. And
(17:26):
as you know, if you work with a great dietitian
and I must stress, please pay and see the right professionals.
You know, everyone's an expert. Every influence is out there.
Please make sure you see. If you need a psychologist,
see a psychologist. If you need weight loss support, see
a dietitian. For this reason, because you're dealing with people
who will create sustainable models. So for me, I know
that my women love to have a glass of wine
(17:47):
and like to have a cheeky chocolate every now and again.
So my job is to formulate plans that suit them
and are sustainable. Because people think seeing having a diet
is about restriction, it's not. A good diet will be
something you can follow forever and as such will factor
in eating out, it will factor in wine and things
that you like. So coming back to the listener, in
terms of her dilemma, I think the question is more
(18:08):
where where is she sitting? In terms of is it
a few kilos, Well, you probably can see a good
dietician and sort it out. If it's more serious than that,
and there is some high insulance, some high glucose, your
waist is over ninety or one hundred, you're carrying twenty
thirty kilos, it is possibly something that you could consider,
but not before you sort of started the journey.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
And there's other options.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
First, because ten years ago, when we didn't have all
these golp one medications targeting these issues, there were other
options we use with people that were not perhaps as aggressive.
And you know, they're quite an investment financially as well.
So you know, I've got all ranges of clients. I've
got clients who have used them from the start. I've
got clients who have lost five or ten and then
started it for a short period of time. But ultimately
(18:51):
they are all working on the same thing, which is
developing a sustainable model of eating, with or without that support.
And yes, in answer, they do kill the food noise
a little bit They certainly mean that you don't feel
like craving and governed by food.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
But it's not like you can't have a glass of
wine or things like that if you don't want to.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
So she's not. It's funny because I think that because
there is so much media out there about this at
the moment, you're reading headlines all the time of like
I became more successful, I became better in bed, I
became listening or whatever. It is, like I suddenly didn't
want to drink, I didn't want to do this, I
didn't want to argue with my partner. I didn't want
to do anything I would like. It's like everyone's talking
(19:30):
about it like that. You're making it clear. You get
back to the basics. This is a medication. You see
a professional for it. It's not going to be a
magic bullet. It's not going to turn you into someone else,
but it might be helpful if you need it. Is
that kind of what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
One hundred percent, And I only ever used it as
a tool as part of the process because in my experience,
for every ten people who have had them, eight it's
are unsuccessful because they haven't committed to the lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Changes required.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Either they use it as a short term solution to
kill appetite, waist muscle mass, and inevitably they put all
the weight back on again.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
So they're a tool to.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Be used as part of a whole lifestyle approach and
for the right person, and they can be incredibly effective,
but there's certainly a serious medication and need consideration. It's
not something you just pop in and have a job
and think glory.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Problems are solved.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
After the break. Susie gives us advice on another dilemma
about a woman who wants to know exactly what clean
eating is and weather she should be doing. Okay, here's
another one. My daughter has become obsessed with clean eating.
(20:40):
She's got clean and inverted commas. She's twenty four. She's
never exhibited disordered eating or struggled with her weight that
I know about, but now she reads every label in
her house, refuses to eat most of the things I
cook for dinner. When she comes over pasta, our listener
says what's wrong with pasta and tells me I'm killing
myself in inverted commas and dad with processed food and chemicals.
(21:03):
She seems to be spending a fortune on everything organic
and macro and all kinds of supplements I've never even
heard of. Is this fashion or is she right? Is
there such a thing as clean eating? And should I
be looking into it or talking her out of it?
That's interesting because it is true that there's sometimes it
feels like there's a division in the world between people
(21:23):
who you know, they look at what you're eating and
they're like, all of that's toxic and you're like, what,
I didn't know that what? And then there's people who like,
I don't know, what do you think she should do?
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Well?
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I think a lot of it's dependent on the age
of the child, isn't it, Because if she was sixteen,
I would approach this very differently to a fully grown adult,
which I would say have very limited control over.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
But you know, she wants to kind of understand it.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
So clean eating.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
You know, there was a term coined by a US
physician back in the nineties who caught it authorexia, And
whilst it's not a clinical eating disorder like bulimia and arexia,
it's certainly disordered eating and some of the common themes
of that are obsessed with all things healthy, you know,
maintaining quite a low body way, often nutrient deficiencies, very restrictive,
(22:16):
often minimizing social occasions, to avoid eating in social situations,
and that's a key marker of certainly clinical eating disorders,
and you know, making it difficult to live what we
would describe as normally. You know, she's not being able
to easily integrate into the family. So the thing that
I thought when I had these briefing notes about this
case study, if it had been my child, I would say, well,
(22:38):
don't expect me to cook.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
If you're coming over it, you can cook all the
that you want, I know.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
But I think the one of the things our listener
is saying is that when someone and obviously someone very
important to you, suddenly takes a like a like a
detour like this, it makes you look at your own
behavior because suddenly you're like, oh, is she right? Am
I killing myself with pastor? Is half our food toxic?
It feels like something that people are talking about more.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
And more certainly, And I think that clinically, the concern
I would have is what's underlying that dry because usually
not in all cases, but usually there's an underlying anxiety,
sense of control. You know, some mental health aspects I'd
be concerned about. And whilst as the mum, she may
not be the right person to say you need to
(23:22):
see someone, so certainly, in my clinical experience, it's an
underlying anxiety coming out in the food and the need
to control, and really encouraging that person to seek psychological
support because it's a secondary symptom of that need for control.
But in aren't so absolutely not. You know, food isn't
clean and dirty. It doesn't quite work like that. I
(23:44):
think it comes down to that people inferring a sense
of superiority or virtue from eating in a certain way,
and it just doesn't work like that. We don't get
to the end of the big white gates at the
end and you said you've been eating way too much
process I mean, you go down here.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Just doesn't work like that.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
It's like, you know, food the way we choose to eat.
And I often say this in regards to whether you
choose to eat vegan or vegetarian or not, you know,
farm fish, whatever it is. That's a personal choice, but
it's important to understand that, you know, it's basically common sense.
You know, there's foods that are less processed and more
natural they're going to be pretty good for us, and
foods that are more process but by the sounds of it,
(24:23):
it's the issue is perhaps the translation of obsession with
all things healthy, and I'd be sort of worried about
the daughter's mental health, anxiety and whether she might need
some support in those areas.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Do you tell your clientele to try and eat as
close to whole food as possible, like, because even if
you're not going as far as this lady's going, there's
a lot of chat about process food. There's no question
we're eating a lot more of it. Generally speaking. You
read an ingredient list and none of it makes any sense,
do you generally I remember you saying to me years
(24:59):
ago when I was talking to you for a story,
and you said, really, one of the things you tell
people to do for healthy data is eat more vegetables.
I always think about that because you were like, it's
that simple, really, Like, but do you do you have
a sort of position on process food or do you
just think we need to make it more simple?
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I the position I have is the less ultra processed
snack type food we consume, the better, Yes, but processed
food is all around us. You know, vegetables, past, yeah,
tin fish, So it's more that ultra process food. And
I would say in my one on one consults with individuals,
I'm always focused on what I want them to do,
so I don't really spend a lot of time saying
(25:42):
you shouldn't have.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
That or avoid that.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
I'm much more about where's your vegetables, where's your carbon
protein balance? You know, because these are the things that
I have to say to my clients every single day.
They're not getting those basics right, let alone worrying about
the other. But as a theoretical position, the less of
that ultra process food. If I'm in a shop and
I pick up something that's got an ingredient list a
mile long, I'll certainly be putting it back and encouraging
(26:05):
my clients not to consume that, because that's where the
evidence in terms of health. You know, it's ultra processed foods,
which have fake ingredients to make something high protein or
high fiber. It's not whole natural foods. That's where you
see all the numbers. They're ingredients we don't have in
our kitchens at home. They don't act like regular minimally
(26:28):
processed food. We don't feel as full when we have them.
We don't recognize the hunger and satiety. We don't get
the nutrition. So, for example, if you have one of
those low carb high protein snack bars, you don't feel
as full as you would if.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
You had a yogurt and nuts.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Even though nutritionally it might have a similar amount of carbohydrate, protein,
and fat, it operates differently metabolically, So that's the issue
with it when it comes to our overall health. You
don't get the same nutrients from it. You don't process
it in the same way, so even though it looks
the same, it's absolutely not. So that's the best take
home message I think, you know, if you're going to
and what I'll say to my clients about foods that
(27:04):
we describe as treat type food, so chocolate or you
really like a biskit crisps, whatever it is. But I
always say to my clients, I want you to have
the one that you love the most, you know, like,
do you love an ic ovo or is it really
a timtam? And if that's the thing you love, really
isolate that right down to the thing that you really enjoy,
(27:25):
rather than just seeing it all as good and bad
and I'm going to have a bad day in eating
all the rubbish. So it's sort a quality. But you
don't need a degree in nutrition. Just check the ingredient
list and if it's really long, it's probably not great
for you.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Can I just ask you on that thing where you
just said about high protein, low carb whatever. Protein's so
hot right now? Right everything in the supermarket that I'm
picking up says more protein, high protein, protein, protein, protein.
I'm like, how they're getting the protein and all this stuff?
Is that nonsense? Or is that real? What about so
with bread and yogurt? With so? I mean, I know
yoga is a form of like it's a good source
(27:57):
of protein. Anyway, Is high protein yogurt a real thing?
Or is that just more processed yogurt? And should it? So?
Should I be choosing those things as a mid woman?
Should I be choosing everything that says high protein?
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Definitely in the mid years, late thirties right through, we
need women All of us metabolically need slightly less carbohydrate
and more protein because of the natural changes in metabolism.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So that is not a fad. That is a real thing.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
What is a fad is supermarket foods labeling protein like
I saw protein chocolate the other day. Now, that is
not good because basically you want the protein from as
natural sources as possible. So in a food that already
has it, so dairy, for example, great, if you can
get a protein enriched great, it's going to just be
a concentrated way in the yoga to give it a
bit more So, the foods that I sort of reach
(28:43):
for that might have sort of extra.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Protein would be anything dairy.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
In bread's a little bit different because what they do
in protein bread is they either fill it with seeds
and grain or they concentrate the flour down. So it
is quite a good product the pasta. But if it's
ultra processed food that's got a protein on it, pizza
not good, chocolate not good, chips not good.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
So process even processed snack bars.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
You know, you'll see a lot of pro bars are
ultra kind of processed, and yes they're going to be
better than picking up a macas when you're hungry, but
they're still not as good as the nuts and the yogurt.
So and I think anyone listening most of us know
this to be true. But what we want is that
we want to be told that you can eat the
crap that tastes good and not feel guilty.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
And you can if you get good.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Quality I don't want to say good quality crap, but
if you get good quality, like get really good chocolate
and enjoy it. You know, if that's your biscuit is
the one that you love, have it, but doesn't mean
you need to eat all the other crap biscuits. So
you know, just really be specific about how you want
to use your calories. So it's not about being restricted
or told you can't have it. It's empowering you to
make the decision how do you want to use your calories.
And that might be on a past to feast once
(29:48):
a week with your friends, great, go for it in
a bottle of wine. But that also means you can't
eat like that all week. It's just a balance and
working out what balance suits you.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Next, Susie tells us why our bodies, including our feet,
can change shape once we hit mid Stay with us.
I'm forty four and my body seems to have suddenly
changed shape. We were getting to this before. I'm not
talking about weight, although there's been a bit more of
that around the middle. We're talking about this before too.
(30:18):
I mean more bits of me that used to be
toned now aren't. And even my feet are bigger than
they used to be. What the hell is going on?
And why aren't the healthy foods I've always counted on
and the workouts I've literally been doing consistently for years
suddenly not having the same results. Are there just different
rules for health now I've crossed some invisible line into
middle age? And she's written, Ah, no, one likes the
(30:42):
term middle age. We don't do that. Hit. We've grown ups.
That's what we call ourselves here. We're grown ups. Why
is life so unfair?
Speaker 1 (30:48):
That's all I've got to say.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
No, this is she imagining it? Or are her feet bigger?
Speaker 1 (30:54):
This is absolutely real.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
And of course it was me or who launched this
whole dialogue in the mainstream media. Like ten years ago,
we weren't speaking about it.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
It is she said, this is really funny. I remember
you liked at the time she was saying that suddenly
my body wants to be a circle, And that was
what you were saying before about just the way that
your weight is redistributed in the mid years.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Anyway, go on, Yeah, these are key metabolic and hormonal changes.
We literally have no control over. A lot of it
will be genetic as well. You're probably noticing you're looking
a bit more like your mother. You know, we are human.
There's only so many things we can control. But basically,
as we get older, naturally, even as adults, we lose
muscle mass. Keep in mind that all of our women
are so busy. They're working two or three jobs, they're
(31:38):
being mums at home, they're working full time, they're caring
for aging parents.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
They're exhausted.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
So you know, very few of us have the privilege
of exercising daily at the level we want to because
we're surviving. So we do lose muscle mass, and then
that's naturally happening anyway. And then as our estrogen declines,
we just become more predisposed to depositing around the middle
and then naturally diet wise, Holly, you know, we're not
saying carbs are bad, but we do all eat too
many of them for the amount of activity we're doing.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Carbohydrate is a fuel source.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
That's why sixteen year old boys can eat five buckets apart.
For us, you know, the diets are different, and I
have this conversation a lot because when I start with
a client.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
The mum will often say to me, I'm.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Worried about eating differently to the family, and I say, well,
you need different things to the family.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
You're not a sixteen year old school girl.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
That's really You're a forty five year old woman, and
it's okay to call out that your needs are different.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Can I ask you about that, because that is so
interesting because I have worried about that over time when
I've been doing different things with you know, trying to
eat correctly for my stage of life, particularly when we
have daughters. And I have a teenage daughter. I am
hyper conscious, as most mums I know are, of not
talking about weight and diets and calories in front of her,
(32:50):
not talking myself down in front of her, so not
being like, oh, look at me in these jeens all that.
I try really hard not to do that, and most
women I know do that too, And I think it's
been really good because although I mean, I think Instagramazon
don all the good work that we've done on that front.
But on the other hand, at least they're not seeing
it at home, so it is a genuine concern that
(33:12):
you're going that they're clocking. But Mum isn't eating the pasta.
Mom is eating the meat and the salad. Like, what
do you advise us to how to talk about that
without imparting? Like you know, dangerous is an overstated word,
but like difficult messaging too, I think it's.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Very I don't think it's difficult. I think it's simple. I,
as a forty five year old woman, have very different
needs to you you're sixteen. Yeah, I sit down on
its coll It's not a big deal and it doesn't
have to be complicated. Just deconstruct the meal. If you're
doing pasta, put the pasta out, put the veggies and
salad out, put the meat out, and just have different proportions.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
It's not making a whole new meal.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
No one's saying you have eat steamfish and brocoli while
everyone is having pasta. Yeah, you just need a couple
of spoons versus your teenage son who needs the whole plate.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
So I think just call it for what it is.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Just we have very different needs and this is about
women acknowledging that and saying that actually, I have needs
to and this is what I need. And unless you
are able to do a couple of our exercise in
a genetically blessed like a supermodel. Guarantee you most of
us will need far less carbohydrate at night because we
like to go on the weekend and have the pizza
and the wine with our friends and all the stuff then,
(34:20):
so you just can't have it all the time. So
it's making that choice. And yeah, it's just because we're
less metabolically active. These are physiological facts. This is not
diet culture. This isn't about restricting. This is just our
bodies change and our needs are far far different, particularly
as we get older, which is another reason to maintain
muscle mass because basically it can eate more. The more
muscle mass you've got, the more calories you're going to burn,
(34:40):
so that works in reverse as well.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
It's so interesting because I think that for a lot
of women around my age, we have swum around diet
culture for a lot of years. Right. We had the
nineties when everyone was way thin, and then we were
like had to be athletic, and then the Kardashians came along,
and then everybody had to have big booties and whatever
it was. You know, when I grew up, every advert
on the TV talked about weight loss and calories in
(35:03):
a very different way than they do now. It means
that we there's so much emotion and value attached to
all this that when you say to me, you should
just talk about it like a normal person at the
table that you want anything else, Like I don't need
as much carbo hydrate as you because I'm a forty
five Well I'm not. I'm a fifty three year old woman.
(35:24):
That makes perfect sense, But for some reason, it's all
just caught up in all this stuff in our minds
that you're like, oh, I can't eat that naughty food,
you know what I mean. Like, And it's kind of like,
if you can just take the emotion out of it,
it's just science, it's just facts.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
And what I would say is we get in our
head a lot about it and just take it. And
it's exactly what I say to my clients when we start,
because they all too have years. They've I guarantee you,
nine out of ten clients, I see you have done
every diet in the book.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
They've been to every gym when they've fallen lost the.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Way they've put it back on. They've probably been on
weight loss medication. I've seen it all. Like that's why
they end up finally with a dietitian. I say, just
take each meal as it comes, don't get in your head,
don't spend ours meal prepping, just breakfast. Where's my protein,
where's my carb, where's my fresh food? Then wait, tillo
hungry again, Just getting back to those cues because we're
(36:15):
so in our head and influenced by social media, and
we're not even listening to our bodies so many so
feel my clients even know if they're hungry, they're just.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Eating on autoqueue.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
I'll get food diaries back, and I do that because
they can just be a great insight into what people
are doing and understanding as opposed to a restriction model.
And I'll say, my concern is that you're eating the
same thing every single day. And they said to me,
but it's on the plan, And I said, yeah, the
plan is a guide, but you should have some difference.
We shouldn't be hungry every single day the same level.
(36:45):
Some days you're gonna be hungryer, some days less. Sometimes
you've been out to dinner, you might not need breakfast.
So yes, there's a basic guide, but it's also following
our natural hunger and satiety, which will be different same
as you'll feel like eating different things every single day.
That's why I don't like people meal prepping for the week.
How do you know you're going to want to have
a stir for on Friday? You might want dumplings. So
you're getting people back in touch with themselves, their natural body,
(37:07):
what they like to eat, and reteach them hunger and fullness.
And that takes time. It's an unraveling. And I say,
you're in dietaryhab and this might take a while because
you've had twenty thirty years of diet culture, and it
may take three, six, twelve months.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
But I guarantee you after I've had them.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
For six they're getting back in touch with themselves again
and feeling more confident in making those decisions.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
But everyone can do it. It's simple. Get your balance,
more vegetables. Have you had your vegie today, Holly?
Speaker 2 (37:32):
For lunch, I had a veggie filled soup. I was like, Susie,
I like this soup two to three cups.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
It has lunch in it too, protein.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
And you know, actually, how hungry am I? Do I
need one slice of bread or do I need two?
Rather than this? This is what I should eat? And
then of course we're not happy with that and we
end up eating the other rubbish anyway.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
So our listener who's like, suddenly things aren't working that
have always worked for me, and it sounds to me
like she's not just talking about way she's talking about it.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
You know, her body and training changes.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
She's imagining that.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
No, absolutely not, and your nutritional requirements change. Things like
calcium becomes so much more important. You know, I can't
tell you how many of my girls come and they
do have low bone density.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
So please listening.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
If you haven't had a bone density scan and you're
in your forties, you must go and get that done.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Keep an eye on your cholesterol.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Actually, I read a really interesting research paper from Mericle
Harbor who said one of the first indications of peri
and menopausal changes is slight increases in LDL cholesterol.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
That is fascinating.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Because you might have always had normal cholesterol and then
suddenly you go in your forty two happened to and
your LDL is a bit higher. Then you know your
estrogen's probably dropping, and then you know it's time to
go and speak to the GP about what options there
are for you in terms of optimizing metabolic health so
that's a really powerful marker. We should all be doing that.
You know, check getting your bower screen as well. You know,
one of the most common increases in cancer is bowel cancer.
(38:53):
You know, be on top of all your checks, and
then ultimately you probably will need to change your diet,
so see a good dietitian. There's plenty of experts in
this area out there, and you probably will have to
change your training because you will find what you did
the cardio of the nineties won't work anymore for a
number of different reasons. When it can increase inflammation, and
the peri and menopausal phases are pro inflammatory. So anything
(39:16):
that's inflammatory in the body, like cholesterol, like fatty liver,
like insulin, will all increase as we get older unless
and there's a lot of dietary things we can do
for that. But certainly your training will likely need to change,
and that's where you can, of course get expert advice
on that as well, so you don't keep you know,
flogging a dead horse, doing the same thing and expecting
the same results.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Susie, I love talking to you. You just make it
all seem so like common sense.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Well I think I really I like to eat.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
I'm no purest, you know, I factor in treats, so
I think that I and also I'm this age myself now,
so I'm living it, and I just speak to hundreds
and hundreds of women, and I think that you get
you know, what works and what doesn't, but in a practical,
sustainable way, because all of the women I speak too
are tired, they're overwhelmed. They're working two or three jobs,
so you don't want to make it another chore. And
(40:03):
when they first come, they'll say to me, and then
I should do this, and then I should do that.
I said, let's just start with food, because I don't
want to be adding more and more and more to overwhelmed,
busy women. And then hopefully once you know, the kids
get older and they get into their fifties and they
get a bit more time, perhaps maybe before grandkids, to
really you know, put that time and energy back into
self and recalibrate, given that we might live to one
(40:25):
hundred and we need to make sure these bodies are
in good nick.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
So yeah, thank you so much. We will of course
show our listeners where they can find out more about
you and your podcast and all of your stuff in
our show notes, But Susie, thank you so much for
solving some dilemmas with me today.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
It's always so nice to see your whole Thank you, MIDS.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
If you enjoyed that honest chat about food and weight
and MID, I encourage you to scroll back in the feed.
Last season, I had a really interesting conversation with a
neurophysiologist called Louisa Nikola, about weightlifting, about protein, about all
that stuff that meds are told to do. It's a
bit of a different conversation to this one, but I
(41:07):
think you'll find it really helpful. If you're not, if
you're done with being told what to do, and told
what you can and can't eat, and told what you
should or shouldn't be doing with your body and your exercise,
then mate, pour yourself something hot or cold that partickles
you fancy, and put your feet up and just have
a chill. Who cares? Life's hard anyway, Mids. If you
(41:27):
have any dilemmas you would like us to address on
this season of MID, do not hesitate. You can email
us at help me at mamamea dot com dot au
and just put MID in the subject line, or you
can just DM me, or you can just DM the
mid momamea account on Instagram. We would love to hear
from you. The executive producer of MID is Nama Brown.
(41:48):
The senior producer is Tylie Blackman, and we've had audio
production from Jacob Brown. And we'll see you next week.
You're listening to Amma mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. Lean in close, friends,
drop your voice. I'm going to talk about something we're
not supposed to talk about in a way I wouldn't
dream of doing if there were people under thirty round,
or my teenage daughter, or even my very best self.
(00:37):
But I've asked her to step out of the room
for a moment so that I can be truthful, unvarnished
about something we're really not supposed to say. I still
struggle with my weight. You're laughing now. I can feel
it because you're thinking, well, who doesn't. You're thinking, I've
had years of that, decades of wasting hours and days
(00:58):
of my life, probably worrying about the circumference of my thighs,
the softness of my chin. How many roles can be
tucked away into the waistband of a helpful g You're
also laughing now because you're looking at whatever version of
me you might have seen out there in the world,
and depending on your own relationship with your own body,
you're thinking I'm right or wrong to worry about it.
(01:21):
You're holding yourself up against that imagined version, and you're
making judgment calls because we all do that. We all
still do that, We're just not allowed to say so.
Generation X, I'm often told by my younger friends and colleagues,
are toxic about weight. We were marinated in diet culture
(01:41):
and cooked up in a world where women talked about
being on a diet constantly, unthinkingly, as if it were
a perpetual state of womanhood. We could tell you what
Jennifer Aniston had for lunch for eight years straight, and
what Oprah had to give up, which was eating by
the way to drag that infamous wagon of fat across
a TV soundstage, and we counted points and mercilessly cut
(02:04):
out entire food groups. We lived through Kate Moss SI zero,
just as our mothers had lived through the Dawn of Twiggy.
We used words like slimming when it came to colors
and cuts, and we positioned ourselves at the middle back
of all group photos, safety in numbers when it came
to hiding our true shape. Now we know better, We
(02:27):
see the damage that it did. All that relentless self
critique of being at war with our bodies, The vicious
inner critic targeting our very flesh and the young people
who have their own battles to fight against the perfect, filtered, smooth,
shrunk bodies of Instagram, every bit as toxic as the
airbrush magazine version, but now cloaked in the language of
(02:49):
health and self care have taught us not to ever
ever talk about it. But just as we know better
and try to make friends with ourselves, a new era starts.
Hormones shift and so does our shape. All those tricks,
the good ones and the bad ones we've learned to
keep ourselves in a bracket of fears. Okay about our
(03:10):
bodies have stopped working, and a redistribution is upon us
also now it really is about health. It's not a
lie or a smoke screen to say that, somewhere in
mid we realize that what we want to live long
and well is a body we don't need to love,
but we need to work all that. To say, in
(03:31):
my hushed tones that it's okay, friends, that we're all
a bit fucked up about this. It's okay that we're
still figuring it out as proper grown up women. How
to remove emotion and judgment from what really are merely
numbers and facts. You're safe here. It's okay. Hello. I'm
(03:52):
Holly Wainwright and I am Mid, Midlife, mid Family, mid Mouthful.
Welcome back to Mid. This is season six, and we
are so happy to have you with us. We're doing
something a bit different this season on MID. We are
unpacking your dilemmas. You might have heard me do an
episode about this with Marian Keyes in season five, where
(04:12):
basically you sent in your problems big and small and
we unpacked them together. It was so popular and we
enjoyed it so much that we decided to do that
as our theme for episode six, but on lots of
different topics, so all things sex and relationships and faces
and family and today about weight. Some of these episodes
are going to sound a bit different to the ones
(04:33):
you might be used to. Some of them are going
to have a big, long thinking introduction like today's because
I just couldn't help myself, but that will pour out
of me. But sometimes we're going to get right down
to business. But always, this season of Mid is going
to be all about you, You and us and Mid
and as I just confessed, I am as messed up
(04:53):
about my body. As the next woman, But I've been
trying to make friends with her for the longest time,
and there's a woman in my orbit who at times
has helped me do that while never trying to turn
me into someone else, that is, someone who doesn't like food.
Susie bar is a dietitian, and a few years ago
she helped me lose a significant amount of weight after
(05:15):
my doctor told me I should Many many of us
have been in that doctor's appointment, right. Susie has all
the qualifications that a lot of people shouting about weight
management on social media do not, and she also has
a very agnostic, practical attitude to this topic. She also
knows about all the new developments in food world. Yes
we're talking about GLP one's the new world of weight
(05:38):
loss medications. And she knows that most women don't have
loads of time for meal prepping and would probably still
like to have a glass of wine or a piece
of cake or a plate of dips sometimes to make
life a little less. So I knew that Susie was
the phone a friend I needed to help us answer
(05:58):
your dilemmas about body, food and weight at this stage
of our lives. Of course, I need to tell you
that as we answer these dilemmas, you should never embark
on any sea significant change to your diet or make
any decisions about medication, weight management, or otherwise without seeing
your doctor. The information discussed in this episode is not
(06:20):
intended to replace professional medical advice. And also, this conversation
is general and does include a few numbers. If any
of that is triggering or difficult for you, I will
not be offended if you skip this episode and links
to organization who can help with any disordered eating issues
in our show notes. But if you are here for
(06:40):
the honest body chat, welcome to the Dilemma Couch. Susie Burrell. Susie,
I couldn't think of anyone better to answer these dilemmas
with me, because you're the person I text when I
have dilemmas about these kind of.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Things happen occasionally. I'm always happy to help her.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I'm always happy to help just occasionally. So our first
question from a mid listener, she says, I've always been
a little over the weight that my doctor would like
to say see me at As I've gotten older, it's
gotten harder to shift a few kilos or so when
I need to well I think we all hear you
there and the scales of creptop. Now friends are telling
(07:19):
me to get on the weight loss jabs. Those are
her words, the weight loss jabs. But here's the thing.
I love food. I love little treats. I love a
glass of wine. My appetite, while it's not out of control,
is part of my personality. To me, I don't want
to become a different person. I don't want to remove
a pleasure from my life. There are few enough pockets
(07:40):
of joy with caring for my family and working hard.
But I feel like I'm being guilted into this option
that everyone is talking about. I guess the first place
we have to go there is here's a woman who
sounds kind of very normal in inverted commas, and that
it is harder for all of us to shift weight
as we get older. And if you're someone who has
(08:01):
always loved little treats, should she address this first of all?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
First of all, it's complicated, as so many things are.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I think.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
First, the first thing I gleaned off that case study
for whatever better word, is the focus on weight. Now,
working with women, as I have for almost thirty years now,
I really don't focus a lot on weight. I really
focus on waste measurement because waste measurement is so much
more telling about what is going on with your health,
particularly as we move into our forties and fifties and
(08:29):
beyond and we have key hormonal changes.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Why Why is that? Because so you literally saying, instead
of standing on the scale, get a tape measure.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Absolutely, absolutely, because it removes that whole idea of a
number weight. Can you know, differ by as much as
two kilos in a single day, It's not a really
great measure. If you're stronger, if you've got more muscle mass,
you're a more muscular frame, you'll be a heavier person.
So some of those sort of standards we grew up with,
wanting to be fifty kilos a're just never going to
be relevant for some people.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Is that kind of why people have started to question
the idea of your BMI because they're like, it's not everybody.
There isn't an ideal weight. We're so different and that
we're learning more about it. Is that why.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
BMI is a population based measure to infer public health.
It's not overly relevant for individuals. So for my women
and I am a clinician I see women every week.
I'm looking at a couple of key measurements. I'm looking
at what I call where your small waist is, because
for anyone who's had kids, you'll know your kind of
waiste drops down a little bit. So I'll do the
sort of leanest, tightest part which in a younger female
(09:30):
maybe rand your belly button still and I do ideally
you want it to be less than eighty centimeters. So
that's the first measure, and then I'll get my ladies
to do a second, which is what I call your
lower waist. Now, for some of us that may be
a hip, it may be where if you've had a
C section, your weight's kind of moved down to and
really we do want that to be less than ninety
So that straightaway tells me so much metabolically what's going
(09:51):
on with my clients and indirectly can be linked to
where the people may need medical weight loss support.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Why does why are those numbers more important than a
number on a scale, and also what does that tell you?
What does that waste number tell you? As an expert?
Speaker 3 (10:09):
That is telling me how well your insulin and glucose
regulation is, and what we know as you go through
perry and menopause, as we naturally lose our estrogen or
it declines, we're more likely to deposit weight centrally. It
also is indicative of those who may be at higher
risk of diabetes or insulin resistance, which would suggest weight
loss may be more difficult and in turn maybe down
(10:32):
the track or require medical weight loss support. So it
tells us so much. It also tells you if you're
losing body fat, if you are trying to lose weight,
because you can go and be on a calorie deficit
or starve yourself or have a low carb diet, and
you see the scales going down, But if your waist
isn't going down, you're probably wasting muscle mass, which is
the worst thing we can do as we get older
because we want more muscle mass. So if my clients,
(10:54):
I don't care if the scales don't go down, and
certainly I have clients who are weighing themselves. I don't
weigh them. I do everyone virtually, so it's up to them.
But I want the waist down because if the waist
is down, it's indicative of body fat loss.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
So it's a much.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Better measure of what's going on with your health and
your metabolism and basically optimizing body composition, because that's what
it is for women in our forties and beyond. It's
about building a healthy body that is functional. As we
get into our seventies, our eighties, our nineties. You know,
these generations of women will hopefully live old. You know
(11:27):
we're going to be around long time. We need these
bodies to be functional. So it's not about a weight
on the scale. It's about functional fitness where you carry
your weight, if you're still mobile and protecting your joints,
more than just a number on the scales.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Can I just ask you before we move on to
the more emotional side of our what our listeners asking us.
Everybody says this about you as you get older, muscle
mass really important? Don't lose muscle mass? Don't lose muscle mass?
Why is it important? Like for the people like me
who don't really understand science, maybe should have taken more
biology at school, Like why and particularly as you get older,
(12:03):
is it really important that you're not losing muscle mass?
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Muscle mass is our metabolically active tissue. It burns calor
is basically so it keeps our body healthy, but it
keeps our body strong because if you think about what
issues as we get older, we fall over, we have
brittle bones. If you've got more muscle mass, or preserve
your muscle mass, your body will be stronger. You'll be
able to eat more, as our listener is talking about,
(12:26):
because it actually burns calories, whereas you can if fat
mass doesn't do anything, it's just dead weight. Really now,
we do need some, but it's not got the metabolic benefits.
It basically burns and processes our glucose. So the more
muscle mass you have, the better it is for hormone control,
for burning more calories, for keeping our bodies strong, to
be able to lift heavy things as we get older,
(12:46):
to be able to climb stairs, go downstairs and not fall,
you know, hold on to things. You know, if you
go to fall and you've got a strong bone and
a strong muscle, you're more likely to be able to
protect yourself as you fall.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
All those little things which are much more important.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
One of the things I think about a lot as
I'm moving into my fifties. You don't want to move
like an old person and inverted comments, I mean even
just like having to dash for something, not having to
think twice about going upstairs or walking here or doing that,
or just like moving in a fluid, fast kind of way.
This is what we're talking about, right, is like being
(13:19):
able to do all that for longer rather than being
we can debilitated.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Picking up your grandkids term you know, carrying heavy shopping
bags and not having to worry and.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Being able to keep doing things you like, like if
you love running, for example, and heaps of women in
our mid age bracket hair will be runners or whatever
it is that they love doing, like being able to
do that.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
For longer, travel and go hiking for days at a time,
walking for long periods of time, being able to stand
on one leg and put your stockings on right, So
all of these functional.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Movement, and that's what it's about.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
It's getting your body fitter and healthier as you move
through the lifespan. So the weight, for me, it's not
a massive factor. It's much more about what's going on
in your body composition and getting you as functionally fit
and lean in a way as possible so your body's
better able to age gracefully.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
All right, Obviously, our listener wants to talk about weight loss.
She's calling them, we will call them what they're correctly called,
which is medical weight loss. Correct Now, everybody knows what
we're talking about when we're talking about that. I'm going
to say a couple of brand names here. If you're
wondering why we're not just saying them, it's because the
regulations around this are type as they should be. Right,
we're talking about medical weight loss injections like o Zempic,
(14:28):
like Manjaro. You would have heard about these right now.
You know a lot about this, SUSI. So I'd love
to know because a couple of years ago, if a
woman is in her midlife like me, and you're thinking,
I do want to reduce that waste size, I want
to lose some weight, I want to get in better shape,
whatever it is. We're talking about diet and exercise now,
and this is what's happening to this listener. Everybody's telling her,
(14:50):
like her mates are telling her, get yourself to the doctor,
get yourself on the japs. That's what everybody's saying, right.
And the thing is is I know that it's not
I know that it's not that simple, but it's certainly
much more mainstream and widespread than it was a couple
of years ago. Our listener is worry that she'll suddenly
(15:11):
not want to eat it at all, and it's a
massive pleasure in her life now. I know because I've
worked with you before, that you actually take into consideration
when you work with women, like is it important to
you to have little treats? Is it important to you
that you have that glass of wine on a Friday night?
Is it what? Blah blah blah. Our listener is almost
worried that she's not going to be herself if she
does try this medication. What's your experience.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I think the thing about medical weight loss is we
don't necessarily understand what it is. So I'll try and
explain it in as simple terms as possible, because for me,
it's very much linked to metabolic variables. It's not a
decision of whether or not you should try it or
want to, it's whether you need to. So the GOLP
one range of medical weight loss are basically working in
(15:54):
two key ways. They work on the hormonal system that
regulates glucose and insulin metabolism in the body, and they
control food noise and appetite due to changes in digestion,
so they basically slow down the movement of food through
the digestive track.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
You hear people saying I have always thought about food
and it's been a battle, and suddenly it's just not there.
That drive is not there.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
For those individuals.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
But it's not a matter of whether I want it
or not. It's whether you, as I said, whether you
need to. Because first of all, if you're looking at
relatively small amounts of weight. Now, so for example, I've
talked in waste measurement, if your wist is under ninety
or you've got a handful of kilos five or ten,
as a dietitian, I would not be even suggesting anything
like that unless you were predisposed to diabetes, you'd had
(16:41):
gestational diabetes or insulin resistance, which is a clinical issue
that may require clinical management. But as a dietitian, I
would always try and do it with diet and exercise
calories in optimizing metabolism for all those things. Now, once
you're getting too people with metabolic issues so pre diabetic,
they have insatiable appetite, they're carrying twenty thirty forty kilos,
(17:04):
it may be a viable option, but it's not just
a decision you make overnight. Start because the thing people
don't understand is not a matter of just taking a jab.
You have to change your diet, exercise, or they don't work.
They just mask appetite for short periods of time and
then as soon as you come off them, you just
go back to your old habits. So we always like
to focus on diet and exercise and lifestyle first. And
(17:26):
as you know, if you work with a great dietitian
and I must stress, please pay and see the right professionals.
You know, everyone's an expert. Every influence is out there.
Please make sure you see. If you need a psychologist,
see a psychologist. If you need weight loss support, see
a dietitian. For this reason, because you're dealing with people
who will create sustainable models. So for me, I know
that my women love to have a glass of wine
(17:47):
and like to have a cheeky chocolate every now and again.
So my job is to formulate plans that suit them
and are sustainable. Because people think seeing having a diet
is about restriction, it's not. A good diet will be
something you can follow forever and as such will factor
in eating out, it will factor in wine and things
that you like. So coming back to the listener, in
terms of her dilemma, I think the question is more
(18:08):
where where is she sitting? In terms of is it
a few kilos, Well, you probably can see a good
dietician and sort it out. If it's more serious than that,
and there is some high insulance, some high glucose, your
waist is over ninety or one hundred, you're carrying twenty
thirty kilos, it is possibly something that you could consider,
but not before you sort of started the journey.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
And there's other options.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
First, because ten years ago, when we didn't have all
these golp one medications targeting these issues, there were other
options we use with people that were not perhaps as aggressive.
And you know, they're quite an investment financially as well.
So you know, I've got all ranges of clients. I've
got clients who have used them from the start. I've
got clients who have lost five or ten and then
started it for a short period of time. But ultimately
(18:51):
they are all working on the same thing, which is
developing a sustainable model of eating, with or without that support.
And yes, in answer, they do kill the food noise
a little bit They certainly mean that you don't feel
like craving and governed by food.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
But it's not like you can't have a glass of
wine or things like that if you don't want to.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
So she's not. It's funny because I think that because
there is so much media out there about this at
the moment, you're reading headlines all the time of like
I became more successful, I became better in bed, I
became listening or whatever. It is, like I suddenly didn't
want to drink, I didn't want to do this, I
didn't want to argue with my partner. I didn't want
to do anything I would like. It's like everyone's talking
(19:30):
about it like that. You're making it clear. You get
back to the basics. This is a medication. You see
a professional for it. It's not going to be a
magic bullet. It's not going to turn you into someone else,
but it might be helpful if you need it. Is
that kind of what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
One hundred percent, And I only ever used it as
a tool as part of the process because in my experience,
for every ten people who have had them, eight it's
are unsuccessful because they haven't committed to the lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Changes required.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Either they use it as a short term solution to
kill appetite, waist muscle mass, and inevitably they put all
the weight back on again.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
So they're a tool to.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Be used as part of a whole lifestyle approach and
for the right person, and they can be incredibly effective,
but there's certainly a serious medication and need consideration. It's
not something you just pop in and have a job
and think glory.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Problems are solved.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
After the break. Susie gives us advice on another dilemma
about a woman who wants to know exactly what clean
eating is and weather she should be doing. Okay, here's
another one. My daughter has become obsessed with clean eating.
(20:40):
She's got clean and inverted commas. She's twenty four. She's
never exhibited disordered eating or struggled with her weight that
I know about, but now she reads every label in
her house, refuses to eat most of the things I
cook for dinner. When she comes over pasta, our listener
says what's wrong with pasta and tells me I'm killing
myself in inverted commas and dad with processed food and chemicals.
(21:03):
She seems to be spending a fortune on everything organic
and macro and all kinds of supplements I've never even
heard of. Is this fashion or is she right? Is
there such a thing as clean eating? And should I
be looking into it or talking her out of it?
That's interesting because it is true that there's sometimes it
feels like there's a division in the world between people
(21:23):
who you know, they look at what you're eating and
they're like, all of that's toxic and you're like, what,
I didn't know that what? And then there's people who like,
I don't know, what do you think she should do?
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Well?
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I think a lot of it's dependent on the age
of the child, isn't it, Because if she was sixteen,
I would approach this very differently to a fully grown adult,
which I would say have very limited control over.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
But you know, she wants to kind of understand it.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
So clean eating.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
You know, there was a term coined by a US
physician back in the nineties who caught it authorexia, And
whilst it's not a clinical eating disorder like bulimia and arexia,
it's certainly disordered eating and some of the common themes
of that are obsessed with all things healthy, you know,
maintaining quite a low body way, often nutrient deficiencies, very restrictive,
(22:16):
often minimizing social occasions, to avoid eating in social situations,
and that's a key marker of certainly clinical eating disorders,
and you know, making it difficult to live what we
would describe as normally. You know, she's not being able
to easily integrate into the family. So the thing that
I thought when I had these briefing notes about this
case study, if it had been my child, I would say, well,
(22:38):
don't expect me to cook.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
If you're coming over it, you can cook all the
that you want, I know.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
But I think the one of the things our listener
is saying is that when someone and obviously someone very
important to you, suddenly takes a like a like a
detour like this, it makes you look at your own
behavior because suddenly you're like, oh, is she right? Am
I killing myself with pastor? Is half our food toxic?
It feels like something that people are talking about more.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
And more certainly, And I think that clinically, the concern
I would have is what's underlying that dry because usually
not in all cases, but usually there's an underlying anxiety,
sense of control. You know, some mental health aspects I'd
be concerned about. And whilst as the mum, she may
not be the right person to say you need to
(23:22):
see someone, so certainly, in my clinical experience, it's an
underlying anxiety coming out in the food and the need
to control, and really encouraging that person to seek psychological
support because it's a secondary symptom of that need for control.
But in aren't so absolutely not. You know, food isn't
clean and dirty. It doesn't quite work like that. I
(23:44):
think it comes down to that people inferring a sense
of superiority or virtue from eating in a certain way,
and it just doesn't work like that. We don't get
to the end of the big white gates at the
end and you said you've been eating way too much
process I mean, you go down here.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Just doesn't work like that.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
It's like, you know, food the way we choose to eat.
And I often say this in regards to whether you
choose to eat vegan or vegetarian or not, you know,
farm fish, whatever it is. That's a personal choice, but
it's important to understand that, you know, it's basically common sense.
You know, there's foods that are less processed and more
natural they're going to be pretty good for us, and
foods that are more process but by the sounds of it,
(24:23):
it's the issue is perhaps the translation of obsession with
all things healthy, and I'd be sort of worried about
the daughter's mental health, anxiety and whether she might need
some support in those areas.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Do you tell your clientele to try and eat as
close to whole food as possible, like, because even if
you're not going as far as this lady's going, there's
a lot of chat about process food. There's no question
we're eating a lot more of it. Generally speaking. You
read an ingredient list and none of it makes any sense,
do you generally I remember you saying to me years
(24:59):
ago when I was talking to you for a story,
and you said, really, one of the things you tell
people to do for healthy data is eat more vegetables.
I always think about that because you were like, it's
that simple, really, Like, but do you do you have
a sort of position on process food or do you
just think we need to make it more simple?
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I the position I have is the less ultra processed
snack type food we consume, the better, Yes, but processed
food is all around us. You know, vegetables, past, yeah,
tin fish, So it's more that ultra process food. And
I would say in my one on one consults with individuals,
I'm always focused on what I want them to do,
so I don't really spend a lot of time saying
(25:42):
you shouldn't have.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
That or avoid that.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
I'm much more about where's your vegetables, where's your carbon
protein balance? You know, because these are the things that
I have to say to my clients every single day.
They're not getting those basics right, let alone worrying about
the other. But as a theoretical position, the less of
that ultra process food. If I'm in a shop and
I pick up something that's got an ingredient list a
mile long, I'll certainly be putting it back and encouraging
(26:05):
my clients not to consume that, because that's where the
evidence in terms of health. You know, it's ultra processed foods,
which have fake ingredients to make something high protein or
high fiber. It's not whole natural foods. That's where you
see all the numbers. They're ingredients we don't have in
our kitchens at home. They don't act like regular minimally
(26:28):
processed food. We don't feel as full when we have them.
We don't recognize the hunger and satiety. We don't get
the nutrition. So, for example, if you have one of
those low carb high protein snack bars, you don't feel
as full as you would if.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
You had a yogurt and nuts.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Even though nutritionally it might have a similar amount of carbohydrate, protein,
and fat, it operates differently metabolically, So that's the issue
with it when it comes to our overall health. You
don't get the same nutrients from it. You don't process
it in the same way, so even though it looks
the same, it's absolutely not. So that's the best take
home message I think, you know, if you're going to
and what I'll say to my clients about foods that
(27:04):
we describe as treat type food, so chocolate or you
really like a biskit crisps, whatever it is. But I
always say to my clients, I want you to have
the one that you love the most, you know, like,
do you love an ic ovo or is it really
a timtam? And if that's the thing you love, really
isolate that right down to the thing that you really enjoy,
(27:25):
rather than just seeing it all as good and bad
and I'm going to have a bad day in eating
all the rubbish. So it's sort a quality. But you
don't need a degree in nutrition. Just check the ingredient
list and if it's really long, it's probably not great
for you.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Can I just ask you on that thing where you
just said about high protein, low carb whatever. Protein's so
hot right now? Right everything in the supermarket that I'm
picking up says more protein, high protein, protein, protein, protein.
I'm like, how they're getting the protein and all this stuff?
Is that nonsense? Or is that real? What about so
with bread and yogurt? With so? I mean, I know
yoga is a form of like it's a good source
(27:57):
of protein. Anyway, Is high protein yogurt a real thing?
Or is that just more processed yogurt? And should it? So?
Should I be choosing those things as a mid woman?
Should I be choosing everything that says high protein?
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Definitely in the mid years, late thirties right through, we
need women All of us metabolically need slightly less carbohydrate
and more protein because of the natural changes in metabolism.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So that is not a fad. That is a real thing.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
What is a fad is supermarket foods labeling protein like
I saw protein chocolate the other day. Now, that is
not good because basically you want the protein from as
natural sources as possible. So in a food that already
has it, so dairy, for example, great, if you can
get a protein enriched great, it's going to just be
a concentrated way in the yoga to give it a
bit more So, the foods that I sort of reach
(28:43):
for that might have sort of extra.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Protein would be anything dairy.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
In bread's a little bit different because what they do
in protein bread is they either fill it with seeds
and grain or they concentrate the flour down. So it
is quite a good product the pasta. But if it's
ultra processed food that's got a protein on it, pizza
not good, chocolate not good, chips not good.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
So process even processed snack bars.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
You know, you'll see a lot of pro bars are
ultra kind of processed, and yes they're going to be
better than picking up a macas when you're hungry, but
they're still not as good as the nuts and the yogurt.
So and I think anyone listening most of us know
this to be true. But what we want is that
we want to be told that you can eat the
crap that tastes good and not feel guilty.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
And you can if you get good.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Quality I don't want to say good quality crap, but
if you get good quality, like get really good chocolate
and enjoy it. You know, if that's your biscuit is
the one that you love, have it, but doesn't mean
you need to eat all the other crap biscuits. So
you know, just really be specific about how you want
to use your calories. So it's not about being restricted
or told you can't have it. It's empowering you to
make the decision how do you want to use your calories.
And that might be on a past to feast once
(29:48):
a week with your friends, great, go for it in
a bottle of wine. But that also means you can't
eat like that all week. It's just a balance and
working out what balance suits you.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Next, Susie tells us why our bodies, including our feet,
can change shape once we hit mid Stay with us.
I'm forty four and my body seems to have suddenly
changed shape. We were getting to this before. I'm not
talking about weight, although there's been a bit more of
that around the middle. We're talking about this before too.
(30:18):
I mean more bits of me that used to be
toned now aren't. And even my feet are bigger than
they used to be. What the hell is going on?
And why aren't the healthy foods I've always counted on
and the workouts I've literally been doing consistently for years
suddenly not having the same results. Are there just different
rules for health now I've crossed some invisible line into
middle age? And she's written, Ah, no, one likes the
(30:42):
term middle age. We don't do that. Hit. We've grown ups.
That's what we call ourselves here. We're grown ups. Why
is life so unfair?
Speaker 1 (30:48):
That's all I've got to say.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
No, this is she imagining it? Or are her feet bigger?
Speaker 1 (30:54):
This is absolutely real.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
And of course it was me or who launched this
whole dialogue in the mainstream media. Like ten years ago,
we weren't speaking about it.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
It is she said, this is really funny. I remember
you liked at the time she was saying that suddenly
my body wants to be a circle, And that was
what you were saying before about just the way that
your weight is redistributed in the mid years.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Anyway, go on, Yeah, these are key metabolic and hormonal changes.
We literally have no control over. A lot of it
will be genetic as well. You're probably noticing you're looking
a bit more like your mother. You know, we are human.
There's only so many things we can control. But basically,
as we get older, naturally, even as adults, we lose
muscle mass. Keep in mind that all of our women
are so busy. They're working two or three jobs, they're
(31:38):
being mums at home, they're working full time, they're caring
for aging parents.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
They're exhausted.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
So you know, very few of us have the privilege
of exercising daily at the level we want to because
we're surviving. So we do lose muscle mass, and then
that's naturally happening anyway. And then as our estrogen declines,
we just become more predisposed to depositing around the middle
and then naturally diet wise, Holly, you know, we're not
saying carbs are bad, but we do all eat too
many of them for the amount of activity we're doing.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Carbohydrate is a fuel source.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
That's why sixteen year old boys can eat five buckets apart.
For us, you know, the diets are different, and I
have this conversation a lot because when I start with
a client.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
The mum will often say to me, I'm.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Worried about eating differently to the family, and I say, well,
you need different things to the family.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
You're not a sixteen year old school girl.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
That's really You're a forty five year old woman, and
it's okay to call out that your needs are different.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Can I ask you about that, because that is so
interesting because I have worried about that over time when
I've been doing different things with you know, trying to
eat correctly for my stage of life, particularly when we
have daughters. And I have a teenage daughter. I am
hyper conscious, as most mums I know are, of not
talking about weight and diets and calories in front of her,
(32:50):
not talking myself down in front of her, so not
being like, oh, look at me in these jeens all that.
I try really hard not to do that, and most
women I know do that too, And I think it's
been really good because although I mean, I think Instagramazon
don all the good work that we've done on that front.
But on the other hand, at least they're not seeing
it at home, so it is a genuine concern that
(33:12):
you're going that they're clocking. But Mum isn't eating the pasta.
Mom is eating the meat and the salad. Like, what
do you advise us to how to talk about that
without imparting? Like you know, dangerous is an overstated word,
but like difficult messaging too, I think it's.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Very I don't think it's difficult. I think it's simple. I,
as a forty five year old woman, have very different
needs to you you're sixteen. Yeah, I sit down on
its coll It's not a big deal and it doesn't
have to be complicated. Just deconstruct the meal. If you're
doing pasta, put the pasta out, put the veggies and
salad out, put the meat out, and just have different proportions.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
It's not making a whole new meal.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
No one's saying you have eat steamfish and brocoli while
everyone is having pasta. Yeah, you just need a couple
of spoons versus your teenage son who needs the whole plate.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
So I think just call it for what it is.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Just we have very different needs and this is about
women acknowledging that and saying that actually, I have needs
to and this is what I need. And unless you
are able to do a couple of our exercise in
a genetically blessed like a supermodel. Guarantee you most of
us will need far less carbohydrate at night because we
like to go on the weekend and have the pizza
and the wine with our friends and all the stuff then,
(34:20):
so you just can't have it all the time. So
it's making that choice. And yeah, it's just because we're
less metabolically active. These are physiological facts. This is not
diet culture. This isn't about restricting. This is just our
bodies change and our needs are far far different, particularly
as we get older, which is another reason to maintain
muscle mass because basically it can eate more. The more
muscle mass you've got, the more calories you're going to burn,
(34:40):
so that works in reverse as well.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
It's so interesting because I think that for a lot
of women around my age, we have swum around diet
culture for a lot of years. Right. We had the
nineties when everyone was way thin, and then we were
like had to be athletic, and then the Kardashians came along,
and then everybody had to have big booties and whatever
it was. You know, when I grew up, every advert
on the TV talked about weight loss and calories in
(35:03):
a very different way than they do now. It means
that we there's so much emotion and value attached to
all this that when you say to me, you should
just talk about it like a normal person at the
table that you want anything else, Like I don't need
as much carbo hydrate as you because I'm a forty
five Well I'm not. I'm a fifty three year old woman.
(35:24):
That makes perfect sense, But for some reason, it's all
just caught up in all this stuff in our minds
that you're like, oh, I can't eat that naughty food,
you know what I mean. Like, And it's kind of like,
if you can just take the emotion out of it,
it's just science, it's just facts.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
And what I would say is we get in our
head a lot about it and just take it. And
it's exactly what I say to my clients when we start,
because they all too have years. They've I guarantee you,
nine out of ten clients, I see you have done
every diet in the book.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
They've been to every gym when they've fallen lost the.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Way they've put it back on. They've probably been on
weight loss medication. I've seen it all. Like that's why
they end up finally with a dietitian. I say, just
take each meal as it comes, don't get in your head,
don't spend ours meal prepping, just breakfast. Where's my protein,
where's my carb, where's my fresh food? Then wait, tillo
hungry again, Just getting back to those cues because we're
(36:15):
so in our head and influenced by social media, and
we're not even listening to our bodies so many so
feel my clients even know if they're hungry, they're just.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Eating on autoqueue.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
I'll get food diaries back, and I do that because
they can just be a great insight into what people
are doing and understanding as opposed to a restriction model.
And I'll say, my concern is that you're eating the
same thing every single day. And they said to me,
but it's on the plan, And I said, yeah, the
plan is a guide, but you should have some difference.
We shouldn't be hungry every single day the same level.
(36:45):
Some days you're gonna be hungryer, some days less. Sometimes
you've been out to dinner, you might not need breakfast.
So yes, there's a basic guide, but it's also following
our natural hunger and satiety, which will be different same
as you'll feel like eating different things every single day.
That's why I don't like people meal prepping for the week.
How do you know you're going to want to have
a stir for on Friday? You might want dumplings. So
you're getting people back in touch with themselves, their natural body,
(37:07):
what they like to eat, and reteach them hunger and fullness.
And that takes time. It's an unraveling. And I say,
you're in dietaryhab and this might take a while because
you've had twenty thirty years of diet culture, and it
may take three, six, twelve months.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
But I guarantee you after I've had them.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
For six they're getting back in touch with themselves again
and feeling more confident in making those decisions.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
But everyone can do it. It's simple. Get your balance,
more vegetables. Have you had your vegie today, Holly?
Speaker 2 (37:32):
For lunch, I had a veggie filled soup. I was like, Susie,
I like this soup two to three cups.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
It has lunch in it too, protein.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
And you know, actually, how hungry am I? Do I
need one slice of bread or do I need two?
Rather than this? This is what I should eat? And
then of course we're not happy with that and we
end up eating the other rubbish anyway.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
So our listener who's like, suddenly things aren't working that
have always worked for me, and it sounds to me
like she's not just talking about way she's talking about it.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
You know, her body and training changes.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
She's imagining that.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
No, absolutely not, and your nutritional requirements change. Things like
calcium becomes so much more important. You know, I can't
tell you how many of my girls come and they
do have low bone density.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
So please listening.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
If you haven't had a bone density scan and you're
in your forties, you must go and get that done.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Keep an eye on your cholesterol.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Actually, I read a really interesting research paper from Mericle
Harbor who said one of the first indications of peri
and menopausal changes is slight increases in LDL cholesterol.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
That is fascinating.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Because you might have always had normal cholesterol and then
suddenly you go in your forty two happened to and
your LDL is a bit higher. Then you know your
estrogen's probably dropping, and then you know it's time to
go and speak to the GP about what options there
are for you in terms of optimizing metabolic health so
that's a really powerful marker. We should all be doing that.
You know, check getting your bower screen as well. You know,
one of the most common increases in cancer is bowel cancer.
(38:53):
You know, be on top of all your checks, and
then ultimately you probably will need to change your diet,
so see a good dietitian. There's plenty of experts in
this area out there, and you probably will have to
change your training because you will find what you did
the cardio of the nineties won't work anymore for a
number of different reasons. When it can increase inflammation, and
the peri and menopausal phases are pro inflammatory. So anything
(39:16):
that's inflammatory in the body, like cholesterol, like fatty liver,
like insulin, will all increase as we get older unless
and there's a lot of dietary things we can do
for that. But certainly your training will likely need to change,
and that's where you can, of course get expert advice
on that as well, so you don't keep you know,
flogging a dead horse, doing the same thing and expecting
the same results.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Susie, I love talking to you. You just make it
all seem so like common sense.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Well I think I really I like to eat.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
I'm no purest, you know, I factor in treats, so
I think that I and also I'm this age myself now,
so I'm living it, and I just speak to hundreds
and hundreds of women, and I think that you get
you know, what works and what doesn't, but in a practical,
sustainable way, because all of the women I speak too
are tired, they're overwhelmed. They're working two or three jobs,
so you don't want to make it another chore. And
(40:03):
when they first come, they'll say to me, and then
I should do this, and then I should do that.
I said, let's just start with food, because I don't
want to be adding more and more and more to overwhelmed,
busy women. And then hopefully once you know, the kids
get older and they get into their fifties and they
get a bit more time, perhaps maybe before grandkids, to
really you know, put that time and energy back into
self and recalibrate, given that we might live to one
(40:25):
hundred and we need to make sure these bodies are
in good nick.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
So yeah, thank you so much. We will of course
show our listeners where they can find out more about
you and your podcast and all of your stuff in
our show notes, But Susie, thank you so much for
solving some dilemmas with me today.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
It's always so nice to see your whole Thank you, MIDS.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
If you enjoyed that honest chat about food and weight
and MID, I encourage you to scroll back in the feed.
Last season, I had a really interesting conversation with a
neurophysiologist called Louisa Nikola, about weightlifting, about protein, about all
that stuff that meds are told to do. It's a
bit of a different conversation to this one, but I
(41:07):
think you'll find it really helpful. If you're not, if
you're done with being told what to do, and told
what you can and can't eat, and told what you
should or shouldn't be doing with your body and your exercise,
then mate, pour yourself something hot or cold that partickles
you fancy, and put your feet up and just have
a chill. Who cares? Life's hard anyway, Mids. If you
(41:27):
have any dilemmas you would like us to address on
this season of MID, do not hesitate. You can email
us at help me at mamamea dot com dot au
and just put MID in the subject line, or you
can just DM me, or you can just DM the
mid momamea account on Instagram. We would love to hear
from you. The executive producer of MID is Nama Brown.
(41:48):
The senior producer is Tylie Blackman, and we've had audio
production from Jacob Brown. And we'll see you next week.
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