July 28, 2025 • 33 mins
In this season of MID, we are answering the dilemmas and questions that you, our listeners, have sent us.
This episode is all about the excitement, fear, insecurity and orgasmic joy of MID dating. Who better to enlist to answer your questions than the very funny and very smart Cath Mahoney, who herself is currently ‘between boyfriends’ - so trust us, she knows the good, bad and ugly (and the great) about all things dating.
The dilemmas that Cath & Holly tackle in this episode are:
- I’ve reconnected with my Facebook ex - he’s not NOT married - and I’m feeling like maybe he’s the one that got away…but my best friend is telling me to let it go.
- I’m on the apps…and I’m thinking about dating younger men. Do I? Should I? How?
- I’ve been having the best sex of my life since my divorce…but now my ex wants me back - I’m tempted - but I don’t want to give up the hot sex!
- Is it bad to want to date someone with money?
You can follow Cath here and get her book here.
THE END BITS:
Share your feedback! Send us a voice message or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au
Follow us on Instagram @MidbyMamamia or sign up to the MID newsletter, dropping weekly here.
CREDITS:
Guest: Cath Mahoney
Host: Holly Wainwright
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Senior Producer: Tahli Blackman
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to mid.
My name is Holly Wainwright and I am mid, midlife,
mid family, mid identity crisis.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Friends.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I'm not going on and on today. You don't need
to hear from me who's been dating the same guy
for twenty years talking about being out there as a
grown up. If you want to talk about the tedium
and comfort of long term love, I'm your girl. But
today's episode is not about that. It is about the excitement,
the fear, the insecurity, and orgasmic joy of mid dating.
(00:54):
And oh my, did you send me some good dilemmas
about that? Clearly I'm no use to you. When I
was last dating, don't you wish your girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Was hot like me?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Was on this thing called a radio? So let's ask
the expert. Back in season one, episode two, Kath who
is a writer, a comedian and an all round top chick,
was on mid on an episode the one of our
most popular ever called the midlife Dating Pool has we
in It? And gosh was she funny about this phase
of life? So when I knew that we needed somebody.
(01:28):
Kath was your gal. She has written a book called
Currently Between Husband about life post divorce. She's been the
host of many podcasts, including one Mere's four five six
Club and So I Quit My Day Job, and she
is currently between Boyfriends. Welcome to the dating dilemmas, Kath Mahony, Kath,
(01:49):
thank you for being here.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Oh it's just to join a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
We should remind the listeners that you were on episode.
I believe it was episode two of two. Ever, I
think it's Prenny got good. It got it very popular
that episode. But that episode got you kicked off one
of the famous people dating apps.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, it did, right, Thanks. It's like fight Club, Rayer.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Apparently the first really fight club is you don't talk
about fight Club and ray felt the same.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I'm very sorry about that. You could have shot your
shot with some very famous people.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
James Norton, who I have a crush on. It is
now on RAYA. If I believe the celebrity goss, I mean,
do I he's having a date with Lily Allen and
they met on RAYA.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Could have been me.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I'm so sorry. I'm the reason why. Anyway, we are
today here to talk about our listeners dating lives mid
they have some dilemmas for us. Okay that I think
your perspective will be very helpful.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Not maybe, No one not an expert.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Just put it out there. No one here has any qualifications,
so don't take our advice too seriously. But we have
a lot of life experience.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
We do, we do, and.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
You have a lot of life experience in the dating
more recently, yes, in my mids. How long have you
been separated for now.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
From my husband? Ten years?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Ten and a half years, so I mean we're good.
We're on a WhatsApp group chat with the kid and stuff,
so yeah, that's all good.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
But single for a couple of years now.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I've met someone I was with for about four years
and then that all ended.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Learnt the word.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Ghosting, zombieing, and other phrases that you would associate with
a horror movie, not with dating, but good content.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I've seen it in a while.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Dating and horror movies have in common. But we shan't
get too negative, says somehope out there for people. Okay,
here is our first question. Okay, I am recently divorced
and I have had what my mates call a relaunch
glow up. I think she's looking hot. Yeah, I'm just
putting a bit more effort into my appearance, I think,
and my marriage wasn't happy for the last few years.
(03:57):
So I'm beginning to feel good about myself. Good for you,
We're please suddenly. My Facebook dms are from more than
one old boyfriend, and I mean old boyfriends from before
I was mad married, before I had kids. Some of
them are funny and I just left them off. But
one of them, well, he was the one that got
away my year twelve formal date. We were together for
(04:20):
a year until he moved away and it fell apart.
He says he's married but not happily, going to leave soon,
and he can't stop thinking about me. Now we've reconnected
on Facebook, I think maybe he's the one I should
have been with all along. We've been messaging and now
I'm thinking of traveling into state to meet him. It's
all I think about. But my best friend says it's
(04:43):
a huge mistake and that I need to look forward
and not back.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
What do I do.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
That's a tricky one because I'm torn between growing up
in the nineties with you know those kind of unrealistic
movies that were romantic and you know, there was they'll
get back together.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
So there's part of me that's like, what if that is?
What if? What if? This story is that? What if?
What if? He but he also appears to be married?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
I know he's also someone else's one at the moment,
don't you think so?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Two things? Yeah, Facebook, like ex is popping up on
Facebook is a real thing. It's hilarious, it is, Yeah,
and it can give you lots of like a lot
of entertaining, imaginative, you know stories in your head. Yes,
but don't you think that there's also a type of
man I may have come across with myself when I
(05:34):
was dating in my thirties. Who is I'm married but
I'm about to leave?
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yes? That is? Would we call it red flag?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
A red flag? And also bullshit?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Do you have you ever heard stories otherwise? Oh?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Look, one good thing about getting older is I really
don't judge anyone, sort of stay in your own lane,
don't judge anywine. I've got friends who've been in similar
situations and it's worked out and they've left and then
friends and it hasn't kind of gone to plan.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
So I'm not sure. So, As I said, the romantic in.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Me would like to see this work out, the realist
in me worries that that's a plane ride, that she's
just going to be coming back with a broken heart.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I don't know. I think one of the things that's
so seductive about an ex from your youth someone why
I've said this, it's not my idea, but what you're
actually thinking about, you know how She says, I can't stop
thinking about it. I bet she can't. Is the you
that you were then, like being in love when you're
eighteen or whatever? They went to the year twelve form
(06:41):
altogether if that was a big love in her early adulthood,
like it's hard no other like if her recent relationship
didn't end happily, you know, her marriage and everything. Imagining
how you felt and that youthful love, and it's like
it's so seductive, but it's not real. You're still you
(07:01):
in your forties with your kids and your shit when
you go and meet him, and he's going to be.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
In his still marriage marriage wind.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
May or may not know that. It's like I think
sometimes it's about us yearning for who we were.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yes, now I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
I remember it was COVID time when Sally Rooney's normal people,
and you know, with the help of a bottle of
red wine, I reached out to my like my my
first love from them because the whole show took me back.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Because that's what's exactly why that was so seductive.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Nostalgia of the past and first love and what could
have been as opposed to what you had left with
in the kitchen when you're arguing about your stacking of
the dishwasher with your your husband or your wife.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
When you reached out to that X was did you
talk to him?
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Do it? Was it?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Did it go anywhere? Or was it just one of
those things?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Well, I think the great thing was having had a
lot of red wine in Australia contacting somebody who's in England.
Very kind of he wasn't as nostalgic about I was,
so luckily it kind of it stayed put.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
But yeah, I don't know. I mean, if she's really keen, I.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Would she should give it a go.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
I would I would.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Kind of wait for him to be more unmarried, would
be my advice. And there, but then you've got the
whole You've got all of the baggage of a marriage ending.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
So I'm just not sure.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
What do you think about her best friend who says
I need to look forward not back. Do you think
that's true?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I think it's what you said, isn't it a little bit?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Although I've got I've got friends whose parents separated and
then eighteen years later got back together.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
So again, I buy those books. I want to watch that.
I want to watch that TV season.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Okay, mate, we think that you should say you might
get on that plane when he's left his wife.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, maybe FaceTime in between.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Yes, I don't know, because he might not even be
he might not look like his photos anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
That's true. And then in my and I'm going to
say something uncharitable in my experience, when you bump into
your past lovers that you're properly older, men tend to
go one of two ways around forty five. It's they
either go triathlon way look like they've become a bit
obsessed with fitness and health and being young and the
good head of hair and stuff. Or they go to seed. Yes,
(09:24):
and I think that women, and again generalizing massively, we
have more ways. We have more distinctions in the things
we do like you know, the gray hair, the whatever,
like I don't know whereas it might be a root
shock to see in real life. Anyway, I'm being judgmental.
Let's move on. This one's about age two though. I
am forty four being on the dating apps for the
(09:44):
first time, and I set my age bracket at what
I thought was the right level my age and ten
years older.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
The thing is, all these men who have matched with
me are old, like old old gray hair, beer bellies,
seem to have old man hobbies and interests. I do
not feel old, she says in caps.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
I know you don't. You're not old. You're forty four. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I've always been a bit judgy about younger men' I'm
beginning to see the appeal. Do I lie about my age?
Go younger? And do you think that's a waste of
my time? I'm just not ready to date a granddad. Okay,
I apologize for my judgmental comments about what some older
men look like, but now I think our listener needs
to do yes.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Well, Look, first of all, a lot of chaps, as
with the ladies, do lie about their age. So sometimes
when I see when someone who says they're fifty two.
I'm like, what, you're born in nineteen fifty two, So
they don't always tell the truth. Sometimes if photos tell
the truth a bit more. Secondly, I would always like,
if she's going her age and ten years up, what
about ten years younger?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Would you?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Is that what you think? You don't like that?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Maybe said it broadly, said it.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yes, cast you netwide. I always do ten years younger,
ten years older. I have done twenty years younger of late,
but that's for research that's not necessarily.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
For all life. So I would say go younger.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
My things when it comes to younger chaps would be well,
I guess whether or not she wants someone long term,
whether it's a bit of fun, whether it's just sex
like whatever. Because with younger guys, especially if they haven't
been married and haven't had children and want that, obviously,
being you know, in our mid years, we might not
(11:26):
want to do any of that stuff again. So I
think what I would say with the younger chaps is
be really clear yourself what you want, because if you
want a bit of slap and tickle, well they're definitely
probably in better nick than the guy who's born in
nineteen fifty two and.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
There's a lot of stereotapes about younger men loving older women.
Apparently we're more experienced, and we're wise, and we're more confident.
Like do you and your other mid friends who are
dating in that pool? Is that true? Do you see?
Is it true that a lot of younger men like
older women?
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I get hit on way more or I get matched
or liked way more by younger guys than kind.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Of guys my age.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
So it's either much younger chaps or older chaps I
seem to hit a mark with. But there's the pros
and cons of dating a younger man. I suppose you
have ecultural references can be really skewed off.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah, I can imagine dirty dancing.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
What that's my favorite VHS? What's a VHS? So that
can make you feel a bit funny?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Okay, you heard it. Here go ten years younger and
ten years older. On the dating apps After the break,
Kat shares advice with a woman whose ex wants her back.
But there's a twist. Okay, this one. My ex wants
me back, but the sex has been much better without him.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
I like this right, Come on. Hold.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
When I got divorced four years ago, I was devastated.
She says, I truly believe my husband is the love
of my life. But after we had kids, life got
really difficult for us and we lost sight of each other.
I think it was very, very hard. But after a
couple of years, I started dating other men and I
kind of disc my mojo. Like my husband and I
had become more like friends over the years, and then
(13:15):
we were in don't fucking touch me enemy territory.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I don't know what you mean.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
So I hadn't felt like enjoying sex for a long time,
and then I did, Like, really, I've really enjoyed having
great sex with some different people, men and women, actually,
since my husband and I split. When I don't have
the kids. Of course, she says, she feels like she
has to say that in case we.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Judge it, Darling, No one's judging.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Thing is my ex has started saying he wants me back,
and we've been hanging out a bit, and I know
I still love him, but I don't want to give
up this version of me that feels like, oh, like
I've worked out what I want and that sex is
a big deal for me. Quite late, the idea of
living without that isn't good.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
What do I do? Ooh, there's a lot to unpack.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
There is so for a hack start. She's I, actually
this is around me a bit. Actually that friends have
like a real second window sexual energy. Did Yeah, because
having sex with the same person for a long time
is a bit boring someone.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Well, and then you're throwing kids and bodies after having
kids and sleepless nights and all of that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I think too.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
I wish i'd known coming into my forties that you
can kind of really hate your sexual peak as a
woman in your early forties.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
And that worked for.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Me because I was not with my husband anymore. I
was enjoying other people. But I do think we have
this second wave. It's wonderful. I would probably suggest trying
to rekindle things with her husband sexually first, but to
be really honest that she's not who she was.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
That's interesting because getting back together with him because they've
got kids and stuff, that's a big deal anyway, which
I'm sure she's thinking about. But she's obviously thinking about
that on emotional level, but the sex part of it,
it's almost like she needs to see if this new
version of her is still compatible with him.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yes, so I would be dating my ex husband if
I was here, I think, and making it really clear secretly, secretly, yes,
like having an affair with your ex husband.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
I do not want to do that. If anyone's listening
that I know, bless him.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I think that's great, But she has to very much.
It's all about communication, isn't it, I think, And as
we get older and we're more confident with was new
sexual paths, it's about owning that and sort of I guess, yeah,
being able to convey that with him because he's either
going to be along for the ride literally no pun intended,
(15:42):
or he's not, or we won't be able to.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Keep up, you know what. I think. I think that
when people are having really great sex, you can kind
of tell, like that there's a crackly energy about you
when you're in that stage of a relationship or in
that stage of life.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Right, it's the best.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
And I reckon the ex husband can probably smell the
pair amon, Yeah, I can feel the crackle, right, and
he obviously likes it. Yeah, as we say this, or
to it if they get back together. But maybe he's
going to surprise you by who he is too.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
I mean, look all I can compare it to is
sort of break up sex, getting back together sex.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
It can be great on it.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, it can actually if it, because it can sometimes
feel like you've turned the clock back to when you
were first. Yeah, just to make I guess if she
feels like she's really made big self discoveries in this.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Look, he's either going to grow with her or he won't.
I would imagine he'll be excited to hear about the women. Yeah, situation,
she's sort of experienced. But yeah, I think it all
comes down to communication and staying who she is now,
not reverting to who she might have felt towards the
end of the marriage.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
And also you'd hope that he's not it's not jealousy there,
there's more excitement. You want to test that too, Yeah,
all right, this is an interesting one. I have a
great life on my own, lots of friends, good jobs,
some hobbies. I travel a bit, but living alone is
so expensive. Yeah, and the men I've met since my
long term relationship Ben did have any money. Mate. I
(17:14):
met this really nice guy. We had a good connection,
but he didn't have a good job, and I knew
if we got together I would be paying for everything.
Is it really shallow not wanting to shoulder all the
financial responsibility and to want to meet a man with
some money, or at least with as good a job
as mine. The young me didn't used to think like this,
and I worry I've changed. Of course you've changed, you've
grown up. Is it wrong to be looking for a
(17:38):
man with money in middle life?
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Look, I think you can kind you have both a
partner and someone who earns two or I get what
she's saying, splitting the bill. It's just nice to know
you can both split the bill as opposed to having
to cover it.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
I think she's worried that what it says about her.
You know, like we kind of go, oh, I don't
care about things like that, And then there's different phrases
in your life where you go, no, I do care
about I do care about that.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah, I would want to date someone who you know
that we can go half.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, I don't need.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Someone to sort of swoop me off my feet and
kind of pay for everything. But you want to know.
I think that they're sort of equal in that status.
That's just my take.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
How do you sniff that out? For want of a
better term, when you're early dating someone who maybe you've
met on the apps or whatever. How do you what
are you all like tell tale signs for like, oh,
this guy's a bit like you know that the guy
is on the place in the place you want him
to be with his life. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
When they come to split the bill and they're like, well,
you had a dessert and I do, this will be this,
this will be what I'm paying, I think you can
kind of work out pretty pretty early on. But yeah,
for me, like financial security is important in a partner
because I'm not in a position. You know, I'm already
a solo parent.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
And it is freaking expensive.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
It's so expensive, so I am and again, when I
was younger, I would have no problem if they had
no money. But I think as you get older, you
want and you want to be able to have a
weekend away. It doesn't have to be a European holiday,
but something that you know that you can both do
together equally.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
So I don't think it's a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Now, that's okay, she says. Do I want a partner
or a provider? It's not a provider.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
You just want some who's on an even keel.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
To you that is a partner, yes, yeah, otherwise if
you're gay for anything for them exactly, you know, all right,
I want to do a few quick fires with you, Kath,
because I got so many as you can see, I've
got so many dms. When I ask people for their
mid dating dilemmas and there i'd like to they kind
of group into themes in a way. Okay, So quite
(19:49):
a few women messaged me and said, what about those
of us who've given up dating? Like it's just too
much angst to like we've just done with it? What
about us? So I want to ask you, have you
I know that you've had time on the apps, off
the apps, whatever, what do you think, like do you
wear you at with your relationship with the dating world.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Well, I'm writing a book, as you know, so I'm
sort of trying to focus on that because the thing
about apps is they do take so much of your
time and you can be emotionally invested. I mean I
can be already married off four voters in a bio, yes,
which is just how I am.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
I can't help it.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
But at the moment I'm off the apps and I'm
actually quite enjoying learning how to be around men in
the real life and sort of relearning how to flirt
and just be so at the moment, I'm off the apps,
but I, you know, I like to meet somebody.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yeah with my lights on.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Do you understand why a lot of women, once they've
sort of settled into being alone, if it's post divorce
or if it's just they're growing into themselves as they
get older, like just go.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
You know what, Maybe I don't need all that shit totally.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
And I have times where I think that I would
say to people, I would make room for the right person,
but I don't just want someone so I have someone
to watch thee and thirty footoort with.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
You know, I kind of want I want.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
A life partner, which obviously you have to date many
people to find the life partner unless you're in the
oldie middle lane. Yeah, it's tricky. I get that women.
I get that women wouldn't want to do that, because
sometimes I feel like that. Sometimes I think I really
love being diagonal in my big bed, and I really
love waking up and being able to pop off and
not worry.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
My only reason it's lying there.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
And I literally my breath at the moment when I
wake up kills my hand?
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Is this an age thing? I think? I think, I
don't think I really want to put.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Another humans through this right now? I do go in
peaks and troughs. And also when it's really hot in Australia,
I can't even worse being on top of someone and
being with all sweatiness. And then when it's cold, I'm like,
I don't want to be touched to you because it's freezing.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Is there a right time?
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Think it's a four week window.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
I also reckon that it's the same with young women
in lots of ways, depending on how they feel about family.
Is that for a lot of women now it's not
we don't need a relationship as in financially necessarily, which
was always the deal like previously or generally it was.
And so when you get to actually ask yourself, well
what do I want, and maybe you've got some experience
of finding out all the things you don't want, then
(22:29):
you're also like, maybe I just want to live my
life and have my mates around my stuff.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah, yeah, I'm finding love through friendship at the moment,
but not in a not in a crossing the boundaries way.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Get it, guys, My age want to date women twenty
years younger, leaving me with the crumbs. There are quite
a few in here about age. Now. We talked about
age in that in adult list of Dilements, but we
were talking about younger men. Is it true that all
the men the age our age are interested in young women.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
I don't think that's entirely true, because you know if
they're in your feed that they're interested in your age bracket,
because you can't see them for those that aren't on
the apps, they are you appear if you know you're
you've both agreed to be in a certain age group.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I don't know. I think my brother, who.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Is happily married, has a friend who has just come
out of his marriage who I've seen a few times
at netball and gone hot, and I'm like James, and
he's like, I'm not pimp my sister out, And he
said he's at a point where he just needs to
have sex for a bit with other people because there
wasn't a lot going on in the marriage towards name.
So so my brother's like to stay away because he
(23:38):
just needs to do that to work through that. So
I do think that's when a lot of guys do
potentially go younger. I think a lot of guys who
want to repartner properly often want to want you to
be the same. They want to have similar age kids.
If you've got kids, you know, I think so. I
think it depends who who you're matching with.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
And can you pretty quickly tell whether somebody is like
you know that? As we were saying about the guy
who may or may not still be married, Yes, when
you are an experienced put and who's been through separation,
are you're like, oh do your divorce wasn't long enough ago?
This won't be like what's the sweet spot this?
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Well, with women it tends to be longer, but I
think with guys it's anything anything over twelve months okay,
But you've got to get them quick, so don't sort
of hang around, dear.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
So some listeners want to work up the nerve to
get out there after whatever's happened in their personal lives.
This woman is saying, how do I get the confidence
together to go on a date. I haven't been on
a date for twenty five years? Do you have any
wisdom about that? If they're not feeling very you know,
they're not vibing, They haven't had their relaunch glow up.
(24:51):
They haven't got their pheromones popping off like the other lady.
What's it like going on your first date.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
It's nerve wracking, It's really nerve wracking.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
And I think you have to really acknowledge the fact
that you're going to feel all the feels. That's going
to be like a mixture between butterflies and wanting to
vomit and wanting to cancel. I suppose my advice would
be put something on you feel really comfortable in, not
what you think somebody wants to see you.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
And also some don't necessarily buy a whole new thing
that then you're like, oh, it doesn't cry.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Yes, we're something that you know you feel good in.
Put some great music on, you know, as you sort
of getting ready. If you're a drinker, probably have a
couple of or a glass. Let's not have you like
going in sideways on the date. If you're not a drinker,
a meditation or something to just get you on the zone.
And acknowledge the fact that it's it's nerves. You know,
(25:41):
It's not it's like us doing anything we haven't done
for a long time. It's nerves and also the other
person potentially is feeling nervous too. And if you're not
mega mega chatty, obviously you and I'd be fine. Yes,
just trying to show mega chatty, and you don't know
if the person you're meeting is megach you know, have
a think about some topics. I know it sounds like
(26:03):
you're going for an interview, but it slightly is have
a few topics that you know that you can talk
about or would want to ask, because I do find
guys are not necessary and not necessarily the question asking tight.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
That's what people say, is they say, often a guy,
I won't ask you any questions.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
And some of that's nerves or it might be narcissism
or what you're working up pretty but go with some
questions ready and just except that it's nerves. But at
the end of the night, it might be nerves and
a lovely first kiss yeah, or a funny chat to
have with your girlfriends the next day over what did
or didn't sort of, that's true.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
The date doesn't go well if you won't get a
good story out of it. Next, Catherine has some straight
talking advice if dating apps make you nervous, If you're
feeling stuck or scared to swipe, don't go anywhere? What
about the people who are scared of the apps? I
(27:01):
don't want to go on the apps? Is a big
thing here because a lot of people say when I
was single, they weren't around. Last time I'm dating, lots
of people say it was in real life and now
I'm scared of the apps? Does it? What's your advice
for getting on the apps in the first place?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Pull the band aid off, piculane. You know there's there's
different different ones for different ones to different things. Pick one, because,
as I said, they you can waste a lot of
time on them.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Pick one.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Sit down with your girlfriend or you know, your best
boy mate, whatever it is. I actually think involving guys
is good because I had photos and a boy mate
said to me, He's like, it's just of your head.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
They don't know that you've got a body or not.
It's like, but they're.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Nice foot and he's like, no, you need some full
body shots and you know, not.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
In a bikini.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yea yeah, but like yeah, give.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Some good feedback and also say what you want. So
if you yes, if you just want a bit of fun,
say that in your bio. If you're looking for a
committed relationship, say that, you know, I think you're not
just saying that to the people on the apps, you're
saying that to the universe and kind of things come
in a bit more like that.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
That's right, So rather than pretending that you only want
a bit of fun if you want to, because yeah,
one of the women in my DMS is like, how
do I use the apps? I haven't been single since
I was seventeen and I'm forty six. I can see
that that would be very intimidated.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
So you're like, I feel like I have and how
do you do it?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Course, yes, that's one of the things that's.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
An revenue stream. If you've been talking to my accountant.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Is it worth all the effort to be in a relationship?
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Again, some of.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
The things I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
One on one of my bios, I wrote, I'm just
looking for somebody that can change it down, like do
up my bracelet and put a bit of fake down on.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
My back, because I do have a thing that I missed.
This is what I miss. I miss. I do miss holidays.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I think when you're a single person, I just haven't
had as many great holidays like.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
I've gone back home.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Obviously we're both from the UK, but I do miss that,
you know, when you used to go away for the
weekend with your partner, Like that sort of stuff I'd love,
Or if there's a gallery opening something that I would
just like to go with my person.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yeah, I think it is with it. I know lots
of people who've met beautiful other halfs on the apps.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, we're leaving on a hopeful note. Oh here's one
that I think is quite pertinent, clashing parenting schedules. It's
hard to build a relationship with little time together. Is
this one of the criteria you've got to put in
your apps? It's like, are our weekends it's going to
be the same. Yeah, you need someone whose weekends are
the same, because very often people have got their kids
every other weekend or whatever. Your weekends still all are you?
Speaker 1 (29:42):
And also be really upfront.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
You know, if you've got kids who are older and
you really don't want to be back in the toddler
stage with someone, especially when they're not entirely your toddlers,
they're sort of someone else's. Be really clear about what
you do and don't want before you go on the apps.
People who have lots of children who are young just
go unmatched, because that's not where I'm at now. I've
(30:04):
barely got one half the week.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
That's one of my mates. She says her kids are
quite young, like a daughter is still at primary school,
and she she wants a guy who's got similar age kids.
I'm like, wouldn't you want them older so that you
don't have to and she's like, no, they won't understand
my life. Do you know that's true?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I think that is true, or it's I think it's
down to the individual what they want. But I think
these are the things that people don't think about. Then
they get into something a situational ship with someone, and
then it is the week on, week off that that
drives you mad with that sort of stuff. I saw
someone at a sporting event the other weekend and he's
like six years out of the marriage and I hadn't
(30:42):
seen him for a while.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
He's looking good.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
But then I was like, oh, he does this, he
does that, he does sports with you know, I just
went when would I see him if I did like him?
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And I don't even know if he's interested.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
But in my head I've gone right through that, like
how it would look, and I'm like, I don't think
it would look that good. But he did look good
in his shorts, so that's nice.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
You know what you're trying. Cas, Thank you so much
for solving all dating dilemmas of the meds for me.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Appreciating I just keep going, Just keep going, Just keep going,
friends trucking while it still works.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Thank you for coming back on MID. I love havn't
you here?
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Thank you? It's a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
If you enjoyed that. And who doesn't enjoy hanging out
with Kath mahoney? She is the most fun. If you're wondering, Yes,
we are both originally from the North of England and
it's why we sound a bit the same. It's also
obviously why she looks great in a red lip, because
you know that's I think anyway, if you enjoyed that
conversation about dating, We've done loads of them here on MID,
and I think you're gonna love them. One of my
(31:48):
favorites is an episode that we did with an amazing
American writer called Leslie Morgan. It's called From No Sex
to Best Sex. At forty nine, and she divorced her
husband after he was just a dick no offense, Leslie
Morgan's husband, and after they broke up, she went on
(32:08):
a mission to date as many men as she could
within a year, and she did, and she had the
best adventures and the best sex, and she tells us
all about it. Also a great conversation with Julie Cohen,
another American writer although she lives in England, about coming
out as bisexual in midlife and why it isn't too
late to work out what you want and tell the
(32:29):
world about it. And then if you're more data driven
and you're looking for something serious, please listen to my
episode with Amantha Imba. She is an amazing psychologist who's
all about efficiency and productivity and she took that energy
into her quest to find a partner in midlife and
went on a lot of first dates and kept some
(32:52):
spreadsheets and just got married. So they go a lot
to choose from. Thank you from being with us on
this episode of mid. If you have a dilemma for us,
please feel free to dm us. We are Mid by
Mamma Mia on Instagram and you can send us your
dilemmas anytime. The executive producer of this episode is Niama Brown.
(33:14):
The producer is Charlie Blackman, and we've had audio production
from Jacob Brown. And I'll see you next week.
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to mid.
My name is Holly Wainwright and I am mid, midlife,
mid family, mid identity crisis.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Friends.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I'm not going on and on today. You don't need
to hear from me who's been dating the same guy
for twenty years talking about being out there as a
grown up. If you want to talk about the tedium
and comfort of long term love, I'm your girl. But
today's episode is not about that. It is about the excitement,
the fear, the insecurity, and orgasmic joy of mid dating.
(00:54):
And oh my, did you send me some good dilemmas
about that? Clearly I'm no use to you. When I
was last dating, don't you wish your girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Was hot like me?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Was on this thing called a radio? So let's ask
the expert. Back in season one, episode two, Kath who
is a writer, a comedian and an all round top chick,
was on mid on an episode the one of our
most popular ever called the midlife Dating Pool has we
in It? And gosh was she funny about this phase
of life? So when I knew that we needed somebody.
(01:28):
Kath was your gal. She has written a book called
Currently Between Husband about life post divorce. She's been the
host of many podcasts, including one Mere's four five six
Club and So I Quit My Day Job, and she
is currently between Boyfriends. Welcome to the dating dilemmas, Kath Mahony, Kath,
(01:49):
thank you for being here.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Oh it's just to join a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
We should remind the listeners that you were on episode.
I believe it was episode two of two. Ever, I
think it's Prenny got good. It got it very popular
that episode. But that episode got you kicked off one
of the famous people dating apps.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, it did, right, Thanks. It's like fight Club, Rayer.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Apparently the first really fight club is you don't talk
about fight Club and ray felt the same.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I'm very sorry about that. You could have shot your
shot with some very famous people.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
James Norton, who I have a crush on. It is
now on RAYA. If I believe the celebrity goss, I mean,
do I he's having a date with Lily Allen and
they met on RAYA.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Could have been me.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I'm so sorry. I'm the reason why. Anyway, we are
today here to talk about our listeners dating lives mid
they have some dilemmas for us. Okay that I think
your perspective will be very helpful.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Not maybe, No one not an expert.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Just put it out there. No one here has any qualifications,
so don't take our advice too seriously. But we have
a lot of life experience.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
We do, we do, and.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
You have a lot of life experience in the dating
more recently, yes, in my mids. How long have you
been separated for now.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
From my husband? Ten years?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Ten and a half years, so I mean we're good.
We're on a WhatsApp group chat with the kid and stuff,
so yeah, that's all good.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
But single for a couple of years now.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I've met someone I was with for about four years
and then that all ended.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Learnt the word.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Ghosting, zombieing, and other phrases that you would associate with
a horror movie, not with dating, but good content.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I've seen it in a while.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Dating and horror movies have in common. But we shan't
get too negative, says somehope out there for people. Okay,
here is our first question. Okay, I am recently divorced
and I have had what my mates call a relaunch
glow up. I think she's looking hot. Yeah, I'm just
putting a bit more effort into my appearance, I think,
and my marriage wasn't happy for the last few years.
(03:57):
So I'm beginning to feel good about myself. Good for you,
We're please suddenly. My Facebook dms are from more than
one old boyfriend, and I mean old boyfriends from before
I was mad married, before I had kids. Some of
them are funny and I just left them off. But
one of them, well, he was the one that got
away my year twelve formal date. We were together for
(04:20):
a year until he moved away and it fell apart.
He says he's married but not happily, going to leave soon,
and he can't stop thinking about me. Now we've reconnected
on Facebook, I think maybe he's the one I should
have been with all along. We've been messaging and now
I'm thinking of traveling into state to meet him. It's
all I think about. But my best friend says it's
(04:43):
a huge mistake and that I need to look forward
and not back.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
What do I do.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
That's a tricky one because I'm torn between growing up
in the nineties with you know those kind of unrealistic
movies that were romantic and you know, there was they'll
get back together.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
So there's part of me that's like, what if that is?
What if? What if? This story is that? What if?
What if? He but he also appears to be married?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
I know he's also someone else's one at the moment,
don't you think so?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Two things? Yeah, Facebook, like ex is popping up on
Facebook is a real thing. It's hilarious, it is, Yeah,
and it can give you lots of like a lot
of entertaining, imaginative, you know stories in your head. Yes,
but don't you think that there's also a type of
man I may have come across with myself when I
(05:34):
was dating in my thirties. Who is I'm married but
I'm about to leave?
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yes? That is? Would we call it red flag?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
A red flag? And also bullshit?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Do you have you ever heard stories otherwise? Oh?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Look, one good thing about getting older is I really
don't judge anyone, sort of stay in your own lane,
don't judge anywine. I've got friends who've been in similar
situations and it's worked out and they've left and then
friends and it hasn't kind of gone to plan.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
So I'm not sure. So, As I said, the romantic in.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Me would like to see this work out, the realist
in me worries that that's a plane ride, that she's
just going to be coming back with a broken heart.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I don't know. I think one of the things that's
so seductive about an ex from your youth someone why
I've said this, it's not my idea, but what you're
actually thinking about, you know how She says, I can't stop
thinking about it. I bet she can't. Is the you
that you were then, like being in love when you're
eighteen or whatever? They went to the year twelve form
(06:41):
altogether if that was a big love in her early adulthood,
like it's hard no other like if her recent relationship
didn't end happily, you know, her marriage and everything. Imagining
how you felt and that youthful love, and it's like
it's so seductive, but it's not real. You're still you
(07:01):
in your forties with your kids and your shit when
you go and meet him, and he's going to be.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
In his still marriage marriage wind.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
May or may not know that. It's like I think
sometimes it's about us yearning for who we were.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yes, now I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
I remember it was COVID time when Sally Rooney's normal people,
and you know, with the help of a bottle of
red wine, I reached out to my like my my
first love from them because the whole show took me back.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Because that's what's exactly why that was so seductive.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Nostalgia of the past and first love and what could
have been as opposed to what you had left with
in the kitchen when you're arguing about your stacking of
the dishwasher with your your husband or your wife.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
When you reached out to that X was did you
talk to him?
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Do it? Was it?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Did it go anywhere? Or was it just one of
those things?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Well, I think the great thing was having had a
lot of red wine in Australia contacting somebody who's in England.
Very kind of he wasn't as nostalgic about I was,
so luckily it kind of it stayed put.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
But yeah, I don't know. I mean, if she's really keen, I.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Would she should give it a go.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
I would I would.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Kind of wait for him to be more unmarried, would
be my advice. And there, but then you've got the
whole You've got all of the baggage of a marriage ending.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
So I'm just not sure.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
What do you think about her best friend who says
I need to look forward not back. Do you think
that's true?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I think it's what you said, isn't it a little bit?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Although I've got I've got friends whose parents separated and
then eighteen years later got back together.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
So again, I buy those books. I want to watch that.
I want to watch that TV season.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Okay, mate, we think that you should say you might
get on that plane when he's left his wife.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, maybe FaceTime in between.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Yes, I don't know, because he might not even be
he might not look like his photos anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
That's true. And then in my and I'm going to
say something uncharitable in my experience, when you bump into
your past lovers that you're properly older, men tend to
go one of two ways around forty five. It's they
either go triathlon way look like they've become a bit
obsessed with fitness and health and being young and the
good head of hair and stuff. Or they go to seed. Yes,
(09:24):
and I think that women, and again generalizing massively, we
have more ways. We have more distinctions in the things
we do like you know, the gray hair, the whatever,
like I don't know whereas it might be a root
shock to see in real life. Anyway, I'm being judgmental.
Let's move on. This one's about age two though. I
am forty four being on the dating apps for the
(09:44):
first time, and I set my age bracket at what
I thought was the right level my age and ten
years older.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
The thing is, all these men who have matched with
me are old, like old old gray hair, beer bellies,
seem to have old man hobbies and interests. I do
not feel old, she says in caps.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
I know you don't. You're not old. You're forty four. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I've always been a bit judgy about younger men' I'm
beginning to see the appeal. Do I lie about my age?
Go younger? And do you think that's a waste of
my time? I'm just not ready to date a granddad. Okay,
I apologize for my judgmental comments about what some older
men look like, but now I think our listener needs
to do yes.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Well, Look, first of all, a lot of chaps, as
with the ladies, do lie about their age. So sometimes
when I see when someone who says they're fifty two.
I'm like, what, you're born in nineteen fifty two, So
they don't always tell the truth. Sometimes if photos tell
the truth a bit more. Secondly, I would always like,
if she's going her age and ten years up, what
about ten years younger?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Would you?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Is that what you think? You don't like that?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Maybe said it broadly, said it.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yes, cast you netwide. I always do ten years younger,
ten years older. I have done twenty years younger of late,
but that's for research that's not necessarily.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
For all life. So I would say go younger.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
My things when it comes to younger chaps would be well,
I guess whether or not she wants someone long term,
whether it's a bit of fun, whether it's just sex
like whatever. Because with younger guys, especially if they haven't
been married and haven't had children and want that, obviously,
being you know, in our mid years, we might not
(11:26):
want to do any of that stuff again. So I
think what I would say with the younger chaps is
be really clear yourself what you want, because if you
want a bit of slap and tickle, well they're definitely
probably in better nick than the guy who's born in
nineteen fifty two and.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
There's a lot of stereotapes about younger men loving older women.
Apparently we're more experienced, and we're wise, and we're more confident.
Like do you and your other mid friends who are
dating in that pool? Is that true? Do you see?
Is it true that a lot of younger men like
older women?
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I get hit on way more or I get matched
or liked way more by younger guys than kind.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Of guys my age.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
So it's either much younger chaps or older chaps I
seem to hit a mark with. But there's the pros
and cons of dating a younger man. I suppose you
have ecultural references can be really skewed off.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah, I can imagine dirty dancing.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
What that's my favorite VHS? What's a VHS? So that
can make you feel a bit funny?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Okay, you heard it. Here go ten years younger and
ten years older. On the dating apps After the break,
Kat shares advice with a woman whose ex wants her back.
But there's a twist. Okay, this one. My ex wants
me back, but the sex has been much better without him.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
I like this right, Come on. Hold.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
When I got divorced four years ago, I was devastated.
She says, I truly believe my husband is the love
of my life. But after we had kids, life got
really difficult for us and we lost sight of each other.
I think it was very, very hard. But after a
couple of years, I started dating other men and I
kind of disc my mojo. Like my husband and I
had become more like friends over the years, and then
(13:15):
we were in don't fucking touch me enemy territory.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I don't know what you mean.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
So I hadn't felt like enjoying sex for a long time,
and then I did, Like, really, I've really enjoyed having
great sex with some different people, men and women, actually,
since my husband and I split. When I don't have
the kids. Of course, she says, she feels like she
has to say that in case we.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Judge it, Darling, No one's judging.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Thing is my ex has started saying he wants me back,
and we've been hanging out a bit, and I know
I still love him, but I don't want to give
up this version of me that feels like, oh, like
I've worked out what I want and that sex is
a big deal for me. Quite late, the idea of
living without that isn't good.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
What do I do? Ooh, there's a lot to unpack.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
There is so for a hack start. She's I, actually
this is around me a bit. Actually that friends have
like a real second window sexual energy. Did Yeah, because
having sex with the same person for a long time
is a bit boring someone.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Well, and then you're throwing kids and bodies after having
kids and sleepless nights and all of that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I think too.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
I wish i'd known coming into my forties that you
can kind of really hate your sexual peak as a
woman in your early forties.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
And that worked for.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Me because I was not with my husband anymore. I
was enjoying other people. But I do think we have
this second wave. It's wonderful. I would probably suggest trying
to rekindle things with her husband sexually first, but to
be really honest that she's not who she was.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
That's interesting because getting back together with him because they've
got kids and stuff, that's a big deal anyway, which
I'm sure she's thinking about. But she's obviously thinking about
that on emotional level, but the sex part of it,
it's almost like she needs to see if this new
version of her is still compatible with him.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yes, so I would be dating my ex husband if
I was here, I think, and making it really clear secretly, secretly, yes,
like having an affair with your ex husband.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
I do not want to do that. If anyone's listening
that I know, bless him.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I think that's great, But she has to very much.
It's all about communication, isn't it, I think, And as
we get older and we're more confident with was new
sexual paths, it's about owning that and sort of I guess, yeah,
being able to convey that with him because he's either
going to be along for the ride literally no pun intended,
(15:42):
or he's not, or we won't be able to.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Keep up, you know what. I think. I think that
when people are having really great sex, you can kind
of tell, like that there's a crackly energy about you
when you're in that stage of a relationship or in
that stage of life.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Right, it's the best.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
And I reckon the ex husband can probably smell the
pair amon, Yeah, I can feel the crackle, right, and
he obviously likes it. Yeah, as we say this, or
to it if they get back together. But maybe he's
going to surprise you by who he is too.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
I mean, look all I can compare it to is
sort of break up sex, getting back together sex.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
It can be great on it.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, it can actually if it, because it can sometimes
feel like you've turned the clock back to when you
were first. Yeah, just to make I guess if she
feels like she's really made big self discoveries in this.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Look, he's either going to grow with her or he won't.
I would imagine he'll be excited to hear about the women. Yeah, situation,
she's sort of experienced. But yeah, I think it all
comes down to communication and staying who she is now,
not reverting to who she might have felt towards the
end of the marriage.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
And also you'd hope that he's not it's not jealousy there,
there's more excitement. You want to test that too, Yeah,
all right, this is an interesting one. I have a
great life on my own, lots of friends, good jobs,
some hobbies. I travel a bit, but living alone is
so expensive. Yeah, and the men I've met since my
long term relationship Ben did have any money. Mate. I
(17:14):
met this really nice guy. We had a good connection,
but he didn't have a good job, and I knew
if we got together I would be paying for everything.
Is it really shallow not wanting to shoulder all the
financial responsibility and to want to meet a man with
some money, or at least with as good a job
as mine. The young me didn't used to think like this,
and I worry I've changed. Of course you've changed, you've
grown up. Is it wrong to be looking for a
(17:38):
man with money in middle life?
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Look, I think you can kind you have both a
partner and someone who earns two or I get what
she's saying, splitting the bill. It's just nice to know
you can both split the bill as opposed to having
to cover it.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
I think she's worried that what it says about her.
You know, like we kind of go, oh, I don't
care about things like that, And then there's different phrases
in your life where you go, no, I do care
about I do care about that.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah, I would want to date someone who you know
that we can go half.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, I don't need.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Someone to sort of swoop me off my feet and
kind of pay for everything. But you want to know.
I think that they're sort of equal in that status.
That's just my take.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
How do you sniff that out? For want of a
better term, when you're early dating someone who maybe you've
met on the apps or whatever. How do you what
are you all like tell tale signs for like, oh,
this guy's a bit like you know that the guy
is on the place in the place you want him
to be with his life. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
When they come to split the bill and they're like, well,
you had a dessert and I do, this will be this,
this will be what I'm paying, I think you can
kind of work out pretty pretty early on. But yeah,
for me, like financial security is important in a partner
because I'm not in a position. You know, I'm already
a solo parent.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
And it is freaking expensive.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
It's so expensive, so I am and again, when I
was younger, I would have no problem if they had
no money. But I think as you get older, you
want and you want to be able to have a
weekend away. It doesn't have to be a European holiday,
but something that you know that you can both do
together equally.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
So I don't think it's a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Now, that's okay, she says. Do I want a partner
or a provider? It's not a provider.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
You just want some who's on an even keel.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
To you that is a partner, yes, yeah, otherwise if
you're gay for anything for them exactly, you know, all right,
I want to do a few quick fires with you, Kath,
because I got so many as you can see, I've
got so many dms. When I ask people for their
mid dating dilemmas and there i'd like to they kind
of group into themes in a way. Okay, So quite
(19:49):
a few women messaged me and said, what about those
of us who've given up dating? Like it's just too
much angst to like we've just done with it? What
about us? So I want to ask you, have you
I know that you've had time on the apps, off
the apps, whatever, what do you think, like do you
wear you at with your relationship with the dating world.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Well, I'm writing a book, as you know, so I'm
sort of trying to focus on that because the thing
about apps is they do take so much of your
time and you can be emotionally invested. I mean I
can be already married off four voters in a bio, yes,
which is just how I am.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
I can't help it.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
But at the moment I'm off the apps and I'm
actually quite enjoying learning how to be around men in
the real life and sort of relearning how to flirt
and just be so at the moment, I'm off the apps,
but I, you know, I like to meet somebody.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yeah with my lights on.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Do you understand why a lot of women, once they've
sort of settled into being alone, if it's post divorce
or if it's just they're growing into themselves as they
get older, like just go.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
You know what, Maybe I don't need all that shit totally.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
And I have times where I think that I would
say to people, I would make room for the right person,
but I don't just want someone so I have someone
to watch thee and thirty footoort with.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
You know, I kind of want I want.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
A life partner, which obviously you have to date many
people to find the life partner unless you're in the
oldie middle lane. Yeah, it's tricky. I get that women.
I get that women wouldn't want to do that, because
sometimes I feel like that. Sometimes I think I really
love being diagonal in my big bed, and I really
love waking up and being able to pop off and
not worry.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
My only reason it's lying there.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
And I literally my breath at the moment when I
wake up kills my hand?
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Is this an age thing? I think? I think, I
don't think I really want to put.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Another humans through this right now? I do go in
peaks and troughs. And also when it's really hot in Australia,
I can't even worse being on top of someone and
being with all sweatiness. And then when it's cold, I'm like,
I don't want to be touched to you because it's freezing.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Is there a right time?
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Think it's a four week window.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
I also reckon that it's the same with young women
in lots of ways, depending on how they feel about family.
Is that for a lot of women now it's not
we don't need a relationship as in financially necessarily, which
was always the deal like previously or generally it was.
And so when you get to actually ask yourself, well
what do I want, and maybe you've got some experience
of finding out all the things you don't want, then
(22:29):
you're also like, maybe I just want to live my
life and have my mates around my stuff.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah, yeah, I'm finding love through friendship at the moment,
but not in a not in a crossing the boundaries way.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Get it, guys, My age want to date women twenty
years younger, leaving me with the crumbs. There are quite
a few in here about age. Now. We talked about
age in that in adult list of Dilements, but we
were talking about younger men. Is it true that all
the men the age our age are interested in young women.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
I don't think that's entirely true, because you know if
they're in your feed that they're interested in your age bracket,
because you can't see them for those that aren't on
the apps, they are you appear if you know you're
you've both agreed to be in a certain age group.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I don't know. I think my brother, who.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Is happily married, has a friend who has just come
out of his marriage who I've seen a few times
at netball and gone hot, and I'm like James, and
he's like, I'm not pimp my sister out, And he
said he's at a point where he just needs to
have sex for a bit with other people because there
wasn't a lot going on in the marriage towards name.
So so my brother's like to stay away because he
(23:38):
just needs to do that to work through that. So
I do think that's when a lot of guys do
potentially go younger. I think a lot of guys who
want to repartner properly often want to want you to
be the same. They want to have similar age kids.
If you've got kids, you know, I think so. I
think it depends who who you're matching with.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
And can you pretty quickly tell whether somebody is like
you know that? As we were saying about the guy
who may or may not still be married, Yes, when
you are an experienced put and who's been through separation,
are you're like, oh do your divorce wasn't long enough ago?
This won't be like what's the sweet spot this?
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Well, with women it tends to be longer, but I
think with guys it's anything anything over twelve months okay,
But you've got to get them quick, so don't sort
of hang around, dear.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
So some listeners want to work up the nerve to
get out there after whatever's happened in their personal lives.
This woman is saying, how do I get the confidence
together to go on a date. I haven't been on
a date for twenty five years? Do you have any
wisdom about that? If they're not feeling very you know,
they're not vibing, They haven't had their relaunch glow up.
(24:51):
They haven't got their pheromones popping off like the other lady.
What's it like going on your first date.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
It's nerve wracking, It's really nerve wracking.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
And I think you have to really acknowledge the fact
that you're going to feel all the feels. That's going
to be like a mixture between butterflies and wanting to
vomit and wanting to cancel. I suppose my advice would
be put something on you feel really comfortable in, not
what you think somebody wants to see you.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
And also some don't necessarily buy a whole new thing
that then you're like, oh, it doesn't cry.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Yes, we're something that you know you feel good in.
Put some great music on, you know, as you sort
of getting ready. If you're a drinker, probably have a
couple of or a glass. Let's not have you like
going in sideways on the date. If you're not a drinker,
a meditation or something to just get you on the zone.
And acknowledge the fact that it's it's nerves. You know,
(25:41):
It's not it's like us doing anything we haven't done
for a long time. It's nerves and also the other
person potentially is feeling nervous too. And if you're not
mega mega chatty, obviously you and I'd be fine. Yes,
just trying to show mega chatty, and you don't know
if the person you're meeting is megach you know, have
a think about some topics. I know it sounds like
(26:03):
you're going for an interview, but it slightly is have
a few topics that you know that you can talk
about or would want to ask, because I do find
guys are not necessary and not necessarily the question asking tight.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
That's what people say, is they say, often a guy,
I won't ask you any questions.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
And some of that's nerves or it might be narcissism
or what you're working up pretty but go with some
questions ready and just except that it's nerves. But at
the end of the night, it might be nerves and
a lovely first kiss yeah, or a funny chat to
have with your girlfriends the next day over what did
or didn't sort of, that's true.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
The date doesn't go well if you won't get a
good story out of it. Next, Catherine has some straight
talking advice if dating apps make you nervous, If you're
feeling stuck or scared to swipe, don't go anywhere? What
about the people who are scared of the apps? I
(27:01):
don't want to go on the apps? Is a big
thing here because a lot of people say when I
was single, they weren't around. Last time I'm dating, lots
of people say it was in real life and now
I'm scared of the apps? Does it? What's your advice
for getting on the apps in the first place?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Pull the band aid off, piculane. You know there's there's
different different ones for different ones to different things. Pick one, because,
as I said, they you can waste a lot of
time on them.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Pick one.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Sit down with your girlfriend or you know, your best
boy mate, whatever it is. I actually think involving guys
is good because I had photos and a boy mate
said to me, He's like, it's just of your head.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
They don't know that you've got a body or not.
It's like, but they're.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Nice foot and he's like, no, you need some full
body shots and you know, not.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
In a bikini.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yea yeah, but like yeah, give.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Some good feedback and also say what you want. So
if you yes, if you just want a bit of fun,
say that in your bio. If you're looking for a
committed relationship, say that, you know, I think you're not
just saying that to the people on the apps, you're
saying that to the universe and kind of things come
in a bit more like that.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
That's right, So rather than pretending that you only want
a bit of fun if you want to, because yeah,
one of the women in my DMS is like, how
do I use the apps? I haven't been single since
I was seventeen and I'm forty six. I can see
that that would be very intimidated.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
So you're like, I feel like I have and how
do you do it?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Course, yes, that's one of the things that's.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
An revenue stream. If you've been talking to my accountant.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Is it worth all the effort to be in a relationship?
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Again, some of.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
The things I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
One on one of my bios, I wrote, I'm just
looking for somebody that can change it down, like do
up my bracelet and put a bit of fake down on.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
My back, because I do have a thing that I missed.
This is what I miss. I miss. I do miss holidays.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I think when you're a single person, I just haven't
had as many great holidays like.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
I've gone back home.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Obviously we're both from the UK, but I do miss that,
you know, when you used to go away for the
weekend with your partner, Like that sort of stuff I'd love,
Or if there's a gallery opening something that I would
just like to go with my person.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yeah, I think it is with it. I know lots
of people who've met beautiful other halfs on the apps.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, we're leaving on a hopeful note. Oh here's one
that I think is quite pertinent, clashing parenting schedules. It's
hard to build a relationship with little time together. Is
this one of the criteria you've got to put in
your apps? It's like, are our weekends it's going to
be the same. Yeah, you need someone whose weekends are
the same, because very often people have got their kids
every other weekend or whatever. Your weekends still all are you?
Speaker 1 (29:42):
And also be really upfront.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
You know, if you've got kids who are older and
you really don't want to be back in the toddler
stage with someone, especially when they're not entirely your toddlers,
they're sort of someone else's. Be really clear about what
you do and don't want before you go on the apps.
People who have lots of children who are young just
go unmatched, because that's not where I'm at now. I've
(30:04):
barely got one half the week.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
That's one of my mates. She says her kids are
quite young, like a daughter is still at primary school,
and she she wants a guy who's got similar age kids.
I'm like, wouldn't you want them older so that you
don't have to and she's like, no, they won't understand
my life. Do you know that's true?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I think that is true, or it's I think it's
down to the individual what they want. But I think
these are the things that people don't think about. Then
they get into something a situational ship with someone, and
then it is the week on, week off that that
drives you mad with that sort of stuff. I saw
someone at a sporting event the other weekend and he's
like six years out of the marriage and I hadn't
(30:42):
seen him for a while.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
He's looking good.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
But then I was like, oh, he does this, he
does that, he does sports with you know, I just
went when would I see him if I did like him?
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And I don't even know if he's interested.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
But in my head I've gone right through that, like
how it would look, and I'm like, I don't think
it would look that good. But he did look good
in his shorts, so that's nice.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
You know what you're trying. Cas, Thank you so much
for solving all dating dilemmas of the meds for me.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Appreciating I just keep going, Just keep going, Just keep going,
friends trucking while it still works.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Thank you for coming back on MID. I love havn't
you here?
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Thank you? It's a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
If you enjoyed that. And who doesn't enjoy hanging out
with Kath mahoney? She is the most fun. If you're wondering, Yes,
we are both originally from the North of England and
it's why we sound a bit the same. It's also
obviously why she looks great in a red lip, because
you know that's I think anyway, if you enjoyed that
conversation about dating, We've done loads of them here on MID,
and I think you're gonna love them. One of my
(31:48):
favorites is an episode that we did with an amazing
American writer called Leslie Morgan. It's called From No Sex
to Best Sex. At forty nine, and she divorced her
husband after he was just a dick no offense, Leslie
Morgan's husband, and after they broke up, she went on
(32:08):
a mission to date as many men as she could
within a year, and she did, and she had the
best adventures and the best sex, and she tells us
all about it. Also a great conversation with Julie Cohen,
another American writer although she lives in England, about coming
out as bisexual in midlife and why it isn't too
late to work out what you want and tell the
(32:29):
world about it. And then if you're more data driven
and you're looking for something serious, please listen to my
episode with Amantha Imba. She is an amazing psychologist who's
all about efficiency and productivity and she took that energy
into her quest to find a partner in midlife and
went on a lot of first dates and kept some
(32:52):
spreadsheets and just got married. So they go a lot
to choose from. Thank you from being with us on
this episode of mid. If you have a dilemma for us,
please feel free to dm us. We are Mid by
Mamma Mia on Instagram and you can send us your
dilemmas anytime. The executive producer of this episode is Niama Brown.
(33:14):
The producer is Charlie Blackman, and we've had audio production
from Jacob Brown. And I'll see you next week.
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