February 25, 2025 • 35 mins
Lizzie Eastham and Sam Rickard present Studio 1 - Vision Australia Radio’s weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view.
On this week’s show
"The Boy Scout Syndrome"
While we always appreciate it when someone offers to help us out, is it possible to be over-helpful?
Our Choir of Angels talks about the times when they have received some unwanted attention from members of the public, and we talk about the role of consent when dealing with the disability community.
Studio 1 welcomes any input from our listeners. If you have any experience or thoughts about issues covered in this episode or believe there is something we should be talking about.
EMAIL: studio1@visionaustralia.org or leave comment on the station’s Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/VARadioNetwork
Thank you to Maddy; Carlie; Stephen; Lily; Jodie; Emma; Sam C and Lars.
Vision Australia gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio 1.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:04):
This is studio One on Vision Australia Radio.
S2 (00:09):
I mean, yeah, it's kind of tricky because you don't
want to discourage people from wanting to help people with disabilities, like,
but at the same time, if they don't ask and
they just assume like, hey, I'm going to grab your
arm and we're going to go over here and just
over pointing things out and stuff can be a little
frustrating at times. So that would.
S3 (00:30):
Probably go back into your decision not to carry a
white cane from time to time. Yeah. If you can
travel incognito, you travel incognito.
S2 (00:37):
Exactly. Yeah.
S3 (00:43):
Hello, I'm Sam.
S4 (00:44):
And I'm Lizzie, and this is.
S3 (00:45):
Studio One, your weekly look at life from a low
vision and blind point of view here on Vision Australia Radio.
S4 (00:50):
On this week's show, while it is nice when someone
offers to help out, is it possible for them to
be over helpful?
S3 (00:58):
We uncover the Boy Scout syndrome.
S4 (01:02):
As we always say at this point, please do get
in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of
the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One,
or if you think there's something we should be talking about.
You never know. Your story and insight may help someone
who's dealing with something similar.
S3 (01:16):
As usual, you can contact us via Email Studio one
at Vision Australia. Org that's studio number one at Vision Australia.
S4 (01:23):
Org or of course, you can drop us a comment
on our Facebook page by going to facebook.com slash VA
Radio Network.
S3 (01:31):
Hello Lizzie, how are we going today?
S4 (01:33):
I must admit, Sam, I am sorry. I am all
in a fluster today. I've had one of those days.
S3 (01:39):
What has happened?
S4 (01:41):
Well, as you know, my routine on a day such
as today is to go to the gym and then
enjoy a nice lunch at a bakery. I usually get
a nice sandwich or a roll, but that's neither here
nor there. Today I was having a rather in-depth conversation
with my support worker about Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, and
for some unknown reason, left my phone on the table
(02:01):
at the bakery. It wasn't until I was grabbing my
laptop bag to come here, and I was getting ready
to put my phone in said laptop bag when I
realized that I'd left it at the cafe. So I
had to go back to the cafe, hoping and praying
all the while that it was still there. Luckily for me,
it was. And then I had to come back here.
(02:23):
And that's why I'm running late and that's why I'm
flustered and oh boy, I've never.
S3 (02:28):
Well, I've left things behind in the past. And like you,
I've been lucky that they've stayed there. But I've never
really lost my phone before. Um, I've known some people
who have left their phones in the toilet, for example,
and had them retrieved by dwarves. But that's another story.
S4 (02:44):
Oh, well, you'll have to tell me that story one day.
I'm not one for losing my phone usually, either. It's
attached to my hip. I mean, for me, my phone
is my lifeline. Everything that I do, most of the
things that I do every day is on my phone
as a visually impaired person. Our phone is a very
useful tool, so it's unlike me to leave it behind
(03:05):
anywhere but oh, I tell you what, I was in
a panic. I was in a fluster.
S3 (03:09):
I was well, you might have been able to find
someone who can help you out, and they might have
been a little over helpful. Yes. So the reason why
I have named this episode the Boy Scout Syndrome is
I came up with this a number of years ago,
and that is. So if you picture there's a Boy
(03:30):
Scout wandering down the road, he's after his badge in
helping ladies across the road, and he comes across an
old lady and helps her across the road, then wanders
off thinking, I've done that. I'm giving my my, um, uh,
badge for wonderful doing this. Not really asking if the
old lady wanted to be helped across the road, or
(03:54):
even wanted to go across the road in the first place.
What do you think? Is that a good analogy?
S4 (04:00):
I think the other thing, or the other analogy I
would use is similar, and it is that a lot
of people go around trying to do their good deed
for the day because, you know, it absolves them of
any of the bad things that they do. I don't
know how people's minds work, and they will often do
their good deed of the day without actually thinking about
(04:22):
how that good deed is affecting someone, even if it's
in a good or a bad way. They just think,
I've done my good deed, I'm good, I'm absolved, and
that's it. Well, it might have been the worst deed
in the world if you'd just thrown somebody off course,
and now they're completely lost as to where they're going.
So you haven't really done your good deed, but if
(04:42):
it absolves you of your moral dilemma, then so be it. Um,
so yeah, I would say this the Boy Scout analogy
is very good.
S3 (04:49):
This is an interesting little subject we sort of stumbled across,
wasn't it, when we were sort of working out questions
and it was like, I think we came up at
the same time. It was like, what about over helpful people?
I mean, have you got any stories to tell with
this kind of thing?
S4 (05:03):
Oh, how much time have you got? I've got so many.
I think the more blind you look, the more of
these people you tend to get. So I had it
a lot with the cane, but even more so with
the dog. I think people just want an excuse to
get close to Layla. That's fine. I have a story. Actually.
(05:25):
I was in my first week of training with Lacey,
and this was when I was volunteering at Radio Adelaide.
So I was in the city and I was walking
back to the train station after finishing my day's worth
of work, and I was aiming for the crosswalk, like
the traffic lights, and I'd just gone a little bit
too far to the right. Some woman came up and
(05:49):
grabbed Lacey's harness and literally yanked us over to the crosswalk.
Didn't say a word, just yanked us over. By the way,
I will add that my Seeing Eye Dogs instructor was
right behind us about ten metres and she come running
up and she was, hey, you can't do that. And
that was when the woman spoke and was like, well,
she was off the crosswalk and I was just helping her.
(06:10):
My instructor had to explain the dangers of distracting the dog,
and we had this whole rigmarole hullabaloo. It was not
a good, not a good scene.
S3 (06:21):
And I suppose the response was I was only just
trying to help.
S4 (06:24):
Yes, yes. Um, which I had to explain that it
wasn't at all helpful because I thought my dog had,
you know, decided to dive for something and I was
unsure of what was going on. And, you know, the
fact that she wasn't speaking to me, um, you know,
didn't alert me to her presence. I didn't know what
(06:46):
was going on so far from being helpful. It was
actually quite the opposite. It was a real hindrance.
S3 (06:52):
I mean, I suppose, dear listener, if you are able
bodied and happen to be listening to us. Don't get
us wrong, we are appreciative sometimes when someone offers to
help us out because, well, we have a disability and
sometimes we need help. And don't be afraid if someone
looks like they're struggling, don't be afraid to say, hey,
are you okay? Do you need a hand there? But also,
(07:12):
don't be offended if they politely say no. Sorry. Um.
I'm fine. Or if I've had a bad day, we
might be a little less polite and say no, because
we're allowed to have bad days too.
S4 (07:26):
We are. I don't know why we. I think there's
a common misconception that because we are disabled, we're automatically
looking for help. So then whenever it's offered to us,
we are expected to take it up. Yes. Now, for
the most part, if I need help, I'll ask. And
if someone offers me help and I genuinely do need it,
(07:48):
of course I'll take it. But if I'm just walking
along like this day, I knew where I was going
and I mean, our cows off the crosswalk. But that's.
This is why we were training Lacey to find these things.
She'd never been in Adelaide before a day in her life.
So it was training her to find that. So you
you know, this person wasn't very being very helpful. But
(08:09):
if I do need assistance, I will take you up
on it and I will show my appreciation. But please
just have the courtesy to ask first.
S3 (08:19):
We have a few people to talk to today. And
the first, well, we've already spoken to Maddie and she
had her view on things at the start of the show.
So next we're hearing from Lily.
S1 (08:32):
Yeah. You know, even when you have got the dog
in your left hand, I've been grabbed and dragged onto
the train, and I. I used to get really cranky,
and I, I used to get really cranky, um, and
just say, let me. You need to let me go.
This is what the dog's for and whatever. And I
used to yell at them, well, get cranky and get heated.
(08:53):
I don't do that anymore. I realize that's not the
right thing to do. So if someone does go to
grab me, um, I'll usually just pull my hand away
and say, no, um, it's okay. And just in future,
just ask me first, ask me if I need help,
and I'll tell you whether I do or not. But
in this case, I've got a guide dog in my
hand and she's doing the work getting me on the train.
(09:14):
I don't like being grabbed. It's one of my. My
absolute worst pet hates. I don't like being grabbed. Um,
because you know what it's like when you can't see
someone coming at you and then they grab you. It's frightening. And, uh,
I've had it happen to me a lot, and, uh,
so I'll, I'll, you know, I just say to them, I'll, I'll,
(09:37):
I'll let you know when I need the assistance. I'll
let you know. And it was like when I was
on the Camino with all these guides, I sighted guides out.
And I'd say, if you could let me know if
there's going to be a, you know, terrain, you think
I'm going to have difficulty rather than just grab me
and and just say. Lily, there's there's something coming up here.
Do you want an arm? Yep. Absolutely. I'll grab one.
(09:57):
You know, uh, so it's really about communication, I think. Yeah.
S4 (10:02):
Lacey in the background there. Um. Very interesting. So one
thing I have to say about this, and it feeds
very nicely into a Facebook post that I saw the
other day and I can't remember for the life of
me where it was found, but it was a comic
of different people with disabilities in various situations. So there
(10:23):
was a, um, a lady in a wheelchair, and a
woman came and put her arm around her. It was
a vision impaired person, and someone was touching her shoulder.
And then it was like a normal person in a bar,
and this creepy dude was hitting on her. And the
basic premises of the comic was unwanted. Physical touch in
any situation is not okay. It doesn't matter if you
(10:45):
are disabled or if you're a pretty young chick sitting
at a bar. If you don't want to be touched
and somebody crosses that boundary, no matter the situation, it
is not okay. And I agree with Lily. I've had
it before where I thought I have been accosted because
someone's just come up and grabbed me and yanked me
out somewhere and I was like, oh, kid, this way.
(11:08):
And you literally you do think you're being accosted because
it just comes from nowhere. You could be in your
own little world thinking about your own day's problems, and
somebody just comes up and grabs you. It's really scary.
All right.
S3 (11:20):
We're going off to a completely different tangent now. I
believe we are talking to Stephen, not your Stephen, the
other Stephen.
S5 (11:29):
So you thank them and send them on their way.
So let's change. As I got older, I think I
was a bit more of a rude, arrogant teenager. So.
But yeah, when I think, uh, probably the biggest change
was when I did my guide dog training, they told
me that if someone offers you a seat on the
bus or the train, you should should take it because
you want them to offer it and you won't. You should.
(11:52):
You should thank them. Be positive. Appreciative. Because if they
don't do it next time. For the the old person
with diabetes and neuropathy in their feet and vision impairment,
well that's a problem. So you should take it every time.
But appreciate it because you judging a book by its
cover but you don't necessarily know know the rest of
(12:13):
the story. So, uh, yeah, I think, uh, I'll be
as nice as I can and just, just be appreciative.
So I was using my Kansas City, walked into a
post the other day and a lady comes up, oh,
I'm so sorry. Something like that wasn't your fault. I
did that, like. And thank you, but definitely not your fault.
(12:33):
You didn't push me into it. So. Yeah, it's that
sort of thing like that. That's lovely, but definitely not
anything to do with you, so. But yeah, like, just
people trying to be nice and, uh, so just. Yeah.
UU (12:48):
Be nice and nice back.
S4 (12:56):
I agree with everything Steven said in that specific situation,
and I think the thing to highlight is that it
is situationally dependent. Uh, what we were talking about before
is an extreme situation where you're walking down the street
and somebody just grabs you. Now, in my experience, those
(13:20):
kind of altercations don't happen very often. Most people will
ask you and they will talk to you. And in
that situation, I do find it best to be positive.
Even if you don't need the help, just say, oh no,
I'm heading here. I'm. If you're coming the same way,
why don't we have a chat? I've done that before.
Or just, you know, be nice to them and send
(13:42):
them on their way. So it is situationally dependent. And
because I, I was becoming aware, you know, while we
were listening to Steve's thing that we I did sound
quite angry and, and a little bit too maybe aggressive before.
But again I will highlight that it is situationally dependent.
And what we were talking about before with Lily being
(14:04):
grabbed on the train is an extreme situation.
S3 (14:07):
Uh, I've encountered the situation where people have offered their
seats on the train in the past, and I've said
in the previous show, that's actually why I don't carry
a white cane anymore, because sometimes people who need that
seat more than I do have stood up and offered
their seat.
S4 (14:19):
Yeah, yeah, I've had that.
S3 (14:20):
That's kind of, um, you know, I'm I'm a perfectly
healthy person. I'm capable of standing, uh, I can understand. Okay.
A guide dog user. Yes. You're in a slightly different circumstance.
And I think really, it's for your dog more than
anything else, that you sit down because it leaves them
under the seat. So where they're safer. That's the way
I gather it.
S4 (14:40):
Well, I've been on the trams here in Adelaide in
peak hour traffic in the morning. And you know when
you get on and you walk to the opposite wall
or the opposite side of the tram, and I've literally
had to stand there and wedge Lacey between me and
the pole or me and the wall, because nobody stood up,
or it's just so full that getting to a seat
(15:01):
is more of a hassle than just standing there for
a 5 or 10 minutes, and I've got absolutely no
problem with standing. But yeah, you're right, most people will
offer it to you, even if they really do need
it more than you. And I think that comes from
a perception of people with disabilities that we are more
frail or less physically capable.
S3 (15:20):
Yeah. And as I said, the circumstances at that stage
I was only 17 or something like that. So I
was not unhealthy in the slightest. And so, yes, as
we all grow and we learn about these things. All right.
So next up we have Emma.
S6 (15:36):
It really depends like if someone just grabbed my arm
without telling me I move away from them, and if
they're always up close in my space, I have to say, look,
I'm okay. Please, I don't need your help. I can manage,
but sometimes, well, a lot of the time when people help,
(15:59):
they're they're great. I really do appreciate their help, especially
when it comes to road crossings, which I hate with
a passion. I hate crossing roads if I can help it,
but I think this is probably relevant to the question
that you asked me as well about overly helpful people.
When it comes to people that talk at me to
(16:20):
the person with me oh, does he need this? Is
she okay? Does she need help? I have to keep saying,
you can talk to me. I'm here. You can speak
to me. Okay. How often do you experience that? It's
not an everyday thing, really, but often enough to get annoyed,
(16:40):
and yet often enough that it gets annoying.
S3 (16:48):
Let's go on off topic a little bit, but.
S4 (16:51):
It's the same thing.
S3 (16:51):
Though. Yeah, um, I think we should do a whole
show about that, about how we don't have, you know,
we suddenly don't have our own agency because since I've
been using a disability worker, I've been getting that too.
S4 (17:08):
I made it a point to my support workers. Um,
and I do this now. If ever I travel with
a new support worker, my first thing that I'll say
before we go out is, look, people are going to
come to you and ask you what I want. Never
assume that you know what I want. Direct them to
me because I can speak for myself now. My support worker, Megan,
(17:31):
is a fiery little chick and she straight up just
tell them, hey, why don't you ask her? She has
a voice. She can speak, and you know, that puts
people off. But it works. And, you know, my other
support workers are starting to come around to that way
of thinking as well, because I explained to them, the
minute that you start talking for me, even if, yes,
(17:52):
you do know what I want, you do know how
I take my coffee or whatever you're taking away from
my agency. Like, what if I wanted a hot chocolate
that day? I mean, what are you going to do?
You know, you're taking away from my free will. You're
taking away from my ability to speak for myself, my agency,
my independence in that situation. And it can be very frustrating. So,
(18:16):
you know, most of the time, I think people are
getting better at this. But most of the time when
it does happen, my support workers or people with me
will say, ah, I don't know what she wants. Why
don't you ask her?
S3 (18:27):
Mm mm. Interesting sort of thing. And if you've got
that experience yourself, um, dear listener.
S4 (18:33):
Please do please touch.
S3 (18:34):
Please email us because we'd love to hear about some
of those stories. Um, it's just listening to Emma. Now
that I sort of thought that would make an interesting, um,
episode title. Um, yeah. Um, look at look at me.
Not my support worker, please. Anyway.
S4 (18:49):
Uh, need some refining, but we'll get there.
S3 (18:51):
Yes. That's right. Who have we got up next? Lizzie.
S4 (18:54):
I believe we have Carly.
S1 (18:59):
It's just a matter of. I guess people get, I
don't know. It can be awkward for some people. That's
how I'd probably explain it. They they. I'll tell them
straight up front. I'll let you know, you know, if
I need help. But let me try to do this
by myself. Just kind of. I'm not afraid to use
my voice and just say it because then it stops.
(19:19):
It makes them not feel awkward and just, uh, I'm
pretty bad with, you know, blind jokes. And soon as
I have a laugh, I think the next person lightens up.
I found, you know, especially in my job I do now.
I do mentoring and coaching in a disability job agency.
And also I've just completed my diploma in counselling. So,
(19:41):
you know, to have have that behind me as well.
It's just understanding that every individual at every different stage
they're at is going to react different. So it's just
about being mindful and being yeah, upfront with with the
next person.
S3 (20:04):
Well she's very Zen. That's that's all I'm going to say.
Very Zen. That's a very balanced. And so we've had
one extreme to the other, and now we've got something
in the middle. I mean, uh, any any comments there
go her.
S4 (20:18):
I mean, I think to some extent, to some extent,
what she said about tailoring your response to the individual
is so true. You're going to get those aggro people
that if you don't accept their help, it's like a
man that tries to buy you drinks in the bar.
Like if you say no, They're gonna hate you. Yeah.
So what do you do? You're not going to make
them feel comfortable at the expense of your own comfortability.
(20:40):
So you're going to have to say no and just
deal with that. But there are some people who are very, like,
genuinely open to education or a good chat, like, um,
I was just alluding to before I had someone ask
me for help, I was walking down from the Royal
Adelaide Hospital back to the railway station. I knew where
I was going. I had someone ask me if I
needed any help and I said, no, but I'm going
(21:01):
this way. And it oh yeah, so am I. I said,
oh great. Well, why don't we walk together and I'll,
we can have a chat, you know, if you're open
to that. If you want to talk, we can talk
and um. Yeah. So during the 15 minute walk, we, uh,
we talked about blindness and what it was like and
assistance and how mobility and all the topics in between
that you could possibly cram into 15 minutes while walking
(21:22):
with a massive backpack. And, uh, it was a very
interesting experience. It's the only experience I've had of that nature.
But there are people that are open to having a
chat and to learning. So I think that's the important
thing to remember when you respond to these people.
S3 (21:38):
The white cane and the guide dog can attract all
sorts really in some ways. I mean, some people will
see either especially a white cane and they will run
for the hills, but others seem to see this as
some sort of, um, a lantern. Oh, here's somebody that
needs my help, or I've got to do my.
S4 (21:54):
Good deed for the.
S3 (21:55):
Day. Now I'm wondering, have I ever told you the
story of the couple that asked us about heaven?
S4 (22:01):
Do I want to know this? Right. Just. Just saying.
S3 (22:04):
Okay. So me and my friend Roberto were walking down
Mitchell Street in Darwin. We were about to head on.
First stop of our big nights out, and I was
able to see a couple cross the road to come
and talk to us, and I was like, okay. And
the first thing that the woman in the couple says is,
(22:28):
has anybody told you about heaven? And I piped up
because I'd just come back from Canberra, that I know
all about heaven. It's a gay club in Canberra. Now
we could both see the absolute horrified and confused looks
on their faces, because then they looked at the pair
of us big strapping lads and I was like, are they?
(22:50):
And of course we just kept walking. So the Kingdom
of heaven was the last thing on our minds at
that stage, unless it was in the arms of a
pretty girl. Oh.
S4 (23:00):
Okay. I am a religious, I'm a Christian, I'm a
new Christian. However, I have had this experience of, uh,
a woman and her three kids, a young, uh, I'm
going to say probably Jehovah's Witness. I'm not quite sure. Woman.
She was quite fanatical in her belief that this would work.
(23:20):
Her and her children put their hands over my eyes
and prayed for me. Now, now I can understand why
they did that. But as an atheist at the time,
I was not impressed. And even now, with my new
found faith, I would have to say I'm sorry, but
I don't think that's appropriate.
S3 (23:39):
Well, at least ask first.
S4 (23:41):
I mean, I am not blind because of my sinful nature,
I can tell you that now. I certainly wasn't sinning
in my mother's womb, and I certainly wasn't sinning when
I was born. So my blindness has nothing to do
with that. So I think it is highly inappropriate to, uh,
for that discussion to be had.
S3 (24:00):
Anyway, um, the next talking to Jody. Jody took a
little while to warm to this subject when you talked
to her about it. Mhm.
S7 (24:10):
But now that I've actually come across any overly helpful
people I can.
S6 (24:16):
The more blind you look or appear, the more you
get them.
S4 (24:19):
So I guess your husband would get them more.
S6 (24:21):
Than you would.
S7 (24:22):
Yeah I think that, I think he seems to attract
when he goes out to the, to the shops, our
local shops. On his own. He seems to attract a
lot of the old grannies because they keep saying how
nice the dog is and stuff. Um, but I haven't really. No,
I haven't really come across that, to be honest.
S6 (24:40):
Because I find, like with my personal experience, I've got
a seeing eye dog also, and when we're out and about,
I don't even have to be looking for assistance and
someone will automatically come up and oh, do you need
some help crossing the road or getting to this or
that place? Or where are you going? I can get
you there and I'm just I don't need that help,
(25:00):
but thank you. You know, um, I know a lot
of blind and visually impaired people who have a cane
or a dog get a lot of that sort of
overly helpful assistance from people.
S7 (25:10):
Yeah, I guess it depends on your personality and the
type of person you are. Whereas my hubby would probably
just stop and start chatting to them and, you know,
he'd be late for whatever it was he was trying
to get to. Um, but it depends on the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's it's just, you know, um, I don't know. I
think the more people ask, I think it's good because,
(25:32):
you know, you never know the day when it might
come that you actually do need help. And if it like,
just for example, for our bus drivers around here, I
live in a, in a small sort of, um, I
it's not rural, but I live in a small place.
And if I was to not know exactly where I
was going, I'd tell the bus driver and he would
radio ahead and tell the next bus driver on the
(25:53):
next route that, you know, I'm coming, or can you
look out for me? Or if I'm, I know I'm
returning at a certain time, I'll say, oh, can you
radio the next driver and just let him know I'll be,
you know, looking for the bus or something like that.
So I just. Yeah, I guess I've been lucky. It
would be completely different in big cities where you don't
see the same drivers, you know, two days in a
row sort of thing.
S3 (26:19):
Bus drivers are an interesting one. Um, sometimes they can
be extremely, extremely helpful. other times. I've had some really
shocking experiences with them.
S4 (26:29):
Oh, you are not the only one.
S3 (26:32):
Uh, if I mean us talking, for example, with Santi
last year, who is developing the Halo app, and he
had something very valid to say, and that is, they're
doing 100 other things anyway, so you can't rely on
them remembering your stop. So that's the way I kind
of consider it nowadays when if we've got all these
(26:53):
wonderful technology, then don't burden them with your stop, you know,
work it out yourself. But I've had in the past
flagged down buses and have not been able to see
the numbers on the front. And so showing my blind
pass to them and said, is this such and such
a number? And they've said, well, what does it say
on the front? And I'm going, well, I don't know.
(27:14):
This is a blind pass.
S4 (27:15):
I've never had that because I look blind. People are
generally a bit more nicer to me about that.
S3 (27:22):
So but yes, even just, you know, waving this thing
quite close to their thing. But obviously, again, they've got
a million things on their mind, so I'm not going
to complain about it. And so yes, in a rural
area potentially, yes. And sometimes, you know, in Darwin it
was actually pretty good as well, I've got to say.
So there was only a few bus routes, and it
(27:42):
did seem to work out nine out of ten times.
It was just the odd occasional time where they were
off in their own little world and they forgot this.
Stop that. Yes, it wouldn't work out.
S4 (27:51):
I've had the experience, uh, completely different. I've gotten on
the bus and a driver has pat my dog on
the way in. Oh. And I was with my friend Lisa,
who was quite vocal, and she was like, um, that's
not allowed. The sign says, do not, Pat, you're not
exempt from this rule. And he was like, too late. Anyway,
(28:13):
she reported him to Adelaide Metro. But I've had bus
drivers do that. I've never had a really rude like
I've had bus drivers that have been grumpy and testy.
And you can tell they want to snark at you.
S3 (28:23):
Yeah, but.
S4 (28:24):
They've got no reason to because I'm always like, hey,
how are you doing? Thanks, driver. I always try to
be positive because I never want to give those grumpy
people a reason to snark at me.
S3 (28:34):
The best thing that I have in my possession now
is a metro card when it comes to taking buses. Because.
Because there are so many times where I've walked past,
the bus driver flashed my pass and they haven't looked
at it, and they call you out as you're halfway
across the bus trying to sit down somewhere. Hey, you
haven't done your Metro pass. That doesn't happen anymore because
(28:57):
pretty much in every capital city in Australia now we've
all got metro passes.
S4 (29:01):
Yeah, even the blind pass is a metro card. That's right.
And it says on the back in Braille metro card.
So yeah, I buzzed mine and my metro card when
I get in. Actually, not all the time. I'm hopefully
no inspectors catch me out, but I always have it
with me ready to go. So if I need to,
I'll buzz it on the thing. But yeah, I think
the invention of having it all in one makes things
(29:22):
a lot easier. Oh, it.
S3 (29:23):
Is a lot easier. And being able to walk through
train gantries and stuff like that. It's only when you're
interstate and you have to actually physically show your past
to somebody again, that you realize how inconvenient it was before.
But again, it's something where you do actually have to
engage the bus driver when when you go on the
bus and say, hey, this is an interstate blind pass. We're,
(29:46):
in theory, allowed to travel free, and usually they're pretty
good with that. Anyway, I haven't had any rejections from
that at all. Here's Sam Coley.
S8 (29:56):
A few years ago, somebody who they'd just met me,
and one of the first things they did was when
they were showing me this new little, new little house
they'd built out the back of their backyard. They grabbed
me by the arm and dragged me around to show
me all this stuff because, well, their their motivation wasn't
(30:19):
that great either. They were like, they basically said, oh,
I want you to know where this is. So you
don't run into it and break it and all that
sort of thing. And it did not make a great
impression on me as a first impression. So that's not
been that wasn't a great experience.
S3 (30:41):
Being rushed around and dragged around. I've had friends who
someone's grabbed the end of their cane and wheeled them
around that way. Um, has that happened to you before?
S4 (30:54):
Not for a long time. Because, like, I spent a
majority of the last ten years with Lily, and. Yeah,
I mean, but, yes, that did happen. Um, I even
had someone suggest that I use my cane as, like,
a guide rope thing so that they could guide me around.
And I'm like, well, how am I gonna know where
there are lips in the ground and steps? And they
(31:15):
couldn't seem to see beyond that. So that was quite humorous.
But yeah, I mean, this is just strange. People are strange.
S3 (31:24):
Uh, again, it's assumption. It's just I'm going to assume
that I.
S4 (31:29):
Know what's best, that.
S3 (31:30):
I know what's best. All right, so we are finishing
up with Lars, who we spoke to a couple of
weeks ago. Um, who is, uh, what was his role
again with the European?
S4 (31:41):
He is the executive director of the European Blind Union.
S3 (31:46):
And. Well, Lizzy dropped this in as one of the
last questions, and I sort of went, you know what?
I'm keeping this one for another week. And this, dear listener,
is why.
S9 (32:00):
Well, first of all, I always try to be myself
and sort of in an educational and explaining to people, uh, attitude.
It's very it's very rare that I would lose patience
or get, I don't know, angry or whatever in a
more aggressive way because I always think at the end
(32:22):
of the day, people have good intentions in most of them.
Maybe exceptions, but most people have good intentions and often
don't know, just don't know how to express them actually.
And then sort of are maybe lost and therefore use
the wrong word or use the wrong gesture or sort
(32:42):
of over want to overhelp. And so so it's very
I try to really stay always calm and explain to
people where I need help or sometimes also that I
don't want to accept their help now because, I mean,
there's no point for me accepting help if I'm 20m
away from my from my own doorstep. I mean, this
is just, you know, these things, but it requires explanation
(33:06):
and again and again, and this is sometimes tough. And
I'm probably, uh, I probably I'm sure you know, this. Also,
sometimes you're you're not always in the same mood, of course, either.
I mean, you know, there are moments where I want
to talk about, uh, me being blind and what I need,
what I don't need and when. But there are also
(33:28):
moments where, I mean, after a hard day at work or,
you know, where you just want to sort of just
walk your way and you're not into the chatty mode
of about your disability all the time either. So that
is kind of educational mode is sometimes also not there.
And so sometimes, uh, tough than to say, well, can
you please basically let me in pieces the answer. But for.
S10 (33:50):
Sure you.
S9 (33:50):
Don't you don't say that too often.
S3 (33:54):
Well, that is a wrap for this week. A big
thank you to Maddie, Lily. Stephen. Emma. Carly. That's right. Carly. Jody. Sam, Carly.
And of course, the mighty Lars. And of course, thank
you as well for listening. You can find the podcast
of this program including some extra content on Apple, Spotify,
(34:15):
Google or your favorite podcast platform.
S4 (34:18):
On next week's show, it's International Women's Day. To celebrate
this auspicious occasion, I'll be kicking Sam out of the
studio so that we can celebrate in style. I'll go.
S3 (34:29):
Now. I'll just have a beer. Bye.
S4 (34:31):
But between now and then, please do get in touch
with the show. Whether you have experience of any of
the issues covered in this week's episode of Studio One,
or whether you think there's something we should be talking about.
You never know. Your story and insight may help someone
who's dealing with something similar. You can reach us via
email at studio One at Vision Australia. Org that's studio
(34:52):
number one at Vision australia.org. Or you can find us
on social media, whether that be Facebook or Instagram. At
VA Radio Network we want to hear from you. Till
next week, bye bye.
S1 (35:04):
Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community
Broadcasting Foundation for Studio One.
This is studio One on Vision Australia Radio.
S2 (00:09):
I mean, yeah, it's kind of tricky because you don't
want to discourage people from wanting to help people with disabilities, like,
but at the same time, if they don't ask and
they just assume like, hey, I'm going to grab your
arm and we're going to go over here and just
over pointing things out and stuff can be a little
frustrating at times. So that would.
S3 (00:30):
Probably go back into your decision not to carry a
white cane from time to time. Yeah. If you can
travel incognito, you travel incognito.
S2 (00:37):
Exactly. Yeah.
S3 (00:43):
Hello, I'm Sam.
S4 (00:44):
And I'm Lizzie, and this is.
S3 (00:45):
Studio One, your weekly look at life from a low
vision and blind point of view here on Vision Australia Radio.
S4 (00:50):
On this week's show, while it is nice when someone
offers to help out, is it possible for them to
be over helpful?
S3 (00:58):
We uncover the Boy Scout syndrome.
S4 (01:02):
As we always say at this point, please do get
in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of
the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One,
or if you think there's something we should be talking about.
You never know. Your story and insight may help someone
who's dealing with something similar.
S3 (01:16):
As usual, you can contact us via Email Studio one
at Vision Australia. Org that's studio number one at Vision Australia.
S4 (01:23):
Org or of course, you can drop us a comment
on our Facebook page by going to facebook.com slash VA
Radio Network.
S3 (01:31):
Hello Lizzie, how are we going today?
S4 (01:33):
I must admit, Sam, I am sorry. I am all
in a fluster today. I've had one of those days.
S3 (01:39):
What has happened?
S4 (01:41):
Well, as you know, my routine on a day such
as today is to go to the gym and then
enjoy a nice lunch at a bakery. I usually get
a nice sandwich or a roll, but that's neither here
nor there. Today I was having a rather in-depth conversation
with my support worker about Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, and
for some unknown reason, left my phone on the table
(02:01):
at the bakery. It wasn't until I was grabbing my
laptop bag to come here, and I was getting ready
to put my phone in said laptop bag when I
realized that I'd left it at the cafe. So I
had to go back to the cafe, hoping and praying
all the while that it was still there. Luckily for me,
it was. And then I had to come back here.
(02:23):
And that's why I'm running late and that's why I'm
flustered and oh boy, I've never.
S3 (02:28):
Well, I've left things behind in the past. And like you,
I've been lucky that they've stayed there. But I've never
really lost my phone before. Um, I've known some people
who have left their phones in the toilet, for example,
and had them retrieved by dwarves. But that's another story.
S4 (02:44):
Oh, well, you'll have to tell me that story one day.
I'm not one for losing my phone usually, either. It's
attached to my hip. I mean, for me, my phone
is my lifeline. Everything that I do, most of the
things that I do every day is on my phone
as a visually impaired person. Our phone is a very
useful tool, so it's unlike me to leave it behind
(03:05):
anywhere but oh, I tell you what, I was in
a panic. I was in a fluster.
S3 (03:09):
I was well, you might have been able to find
someone who can help you out, and they might have
been a little over helpful. Yes. So the reason why
I have named this episode the Boy Scout Syndrome is
I came up with this a number of years ago,
and that is. So if you picture there's a Boy
(03:30):
Scout wandering down the road, he's after his badge in
helping ladies across the road, and he comes across an
old lady and helps her across the road, then wanders
off thinking, I've done that. I'm giving my my, um, uh,
badge for wonderful doing this. Not really asking if the
old lady wanted to be helped across the road, or
(03:54):
even wanted to go across the road in the first place.
What do you think? Is that a good analogy?
S4 (04:00):
I think the other thing, or the other analogy I
would use is similar, and it is that a lot
of people go around trying to do their good deed
for the day because, you know, it absolves them of
any of the bad things that they do. I don't
know how people's minds work, and they will often do
their good deed of the day without actually thinking about
(04:22):
how that good deed is affecting someone, even if it's
in a good or a bad way. They just think,
I've done my good deed, I'm good, I'm absolved, and
that's it. Well, it might have been the worst deed
in the world if you'd just thrown somebody off course,
and now they're completely lost as to where they're going.
So you haven't really done your good deed, but if
(04:42):
it absolves you of your moral dilemma, then so be it. Um,
so yeah, I would say this the Boy Scout analogy
is very good.
S3 (04:49):
This is an interesting little subject we sort of stumbled across,
wasn't it, when we were sort of working out questions
and it was like, I think we came up at
the same time. It was like, what about over helpful people?
I mean, have you got any stories to tell with
this kind of thing?
S4 (05:03):
Oh, how much time have you got? I've got so many.
I think the more blind you look, the more of
these people you tend to get. So I had it
a lot with the cane, but even more so with
the dog. I think people just want an excuse to
get close to Layla. That's fine. I have a story. Actually.
(05:25):
I was in my first week of training with Lacey,
and this was when I was volunteering at Radio Adelaide.
So I was in the city and I was walking
back to the train station after finishing my day's worth
of work, and I was aiming for the crosswalk, like
the traffic lights, and I'd just gone a little bit
too far to the right. Some woman came up and
(05:49):
grabbed Lacey's harness and literally yanked us over to the crosswalk.
Didn't say a word, just yanked us over. By the way,
I will add that my Seeing Eye Dogs instructor was
right behind us about ten metres and she come running
up and she was, hey, you can't do that. And
that was when the woman spoke and was like, well,
she was off the crosswalk and I was just helping her.
(06:10):
My instructor had to explain the dangers of distracting the dog,
and we had this whole rigmarole hullabaloo. It was not
a good, not a good scene.
S3 (06:21):
And I suppose the response was I was only just
trying to help.
S4 (06:24):
Yes, yes. Um, which I had to explain that it
wasn't at all helpful because I thought my dog had,
you know, decided to dive for something and I was
unsure of what was going on. And, you know, the
fact that she wasn't speaking to me, um, you know,
didn't alert me to her presence. I didn't know what
(06:46):
was going on so far from being helpful. It was
actually quite the opposite. It was a real hindrance.
S3 (06:52):
I mean, I suppose, dear listener, if you are able
bodied and happen to be listening to us. Don't get
us wrong, we are appreciative sometimes when someone offers to
help us out because, well, we have a disability and
sometimes we need help. And don't be afraid if someone
looks like they're struggling, don't be afraid to say, hey,
are you okay? Do you need a hand there? But also,
(07:12):
don't be offended if they politely say no. Sorry. Um.
I'm fine. Or if I've had a bad day, we
might be a little less polite and say no, because
we're allowed to have bad days too.
S4 (07:26):
We are. I don't know why we. I think there's
a common misconception that because we are disabled, we're automatically
looking for help. So then whenever it's offered to us,
we are expected to take it up. Yes. Now, for
the most part, if I need help, I'll ask. And
if someone offers me help and I genuinely do need it,
(07:48):
of course I'll take it. But if I'm just walking
along like this day, I knew where I was going
and I mean, our cows off the crosswalk. But that's.
This is why we were training Lacey to find these things.
She'd never been in Adelaide before a day in her life.
So it was training her to find that. So you
you know, this person wasn't very being very helpful. But
(08:09):
if I do need assistance, I will take you up
on it and I will show my appreciation. But please
just have the courtesy to ask first.
S3 (08:19):
We have a few people to talk to today. And
the first, well, we've already spoken to Maddie and she
had her view on things at the start of the show.
So next we're hearing from Lily.
S1 (08:32):
Yeah. You know, even when you have got the dog
in your left hand, I've been grabbed and dragged onto
the train, and I. I used to get really cranky,
and I, I used to get really cranky, um, and
just say, let me. You need to let me go.
This is what the dog's for and whatever. And I
used to yell at them, well, get cranky and get heated.
(08:53):
I don't do that anymore. I realize that's not the
right thing to do. So if someone does go to
grab me, um, I'll usually just pull my hand away
and say, no, um, it's okay. And just in future,
just ask me first, ask me if I need help,
and I'll tell you whether I do or not. But
in this case, I've got a guide dog in my
hand and she's doing the work getting me on the train.
(09:14):
I don't like being grabbed. It's one of my. My
absolute worst pet hates. I don't like being grabbed. Um,
because you know what it's like when you can't see
someone coming at you and then they grab you. It's frightening. And, uh,
I've had it happen to me a lot, and, uh,
so I'll, I'll, you know, I just say to them, I'll, I'll,
(09:37):
I'll let you know when I need the assistance. I'll
let you know. And it was like when I was
on the Camino with all these guides, I sighted guides out.
And I'd say, if you could let me know if
there's going to be a, you know, terrain, you think
I'm going to have difficulty rather than just grab me
and and just say. Lily, there's there's something coming up here.
Do you want an arm? Yep. Absolutely. I'll grab one.
(09:57):
You know, uh, so it's really about communication, I think. Yeah.
S4 (10:02):
Lacey in the background there. Um. Very interesting. So one
thing I have to say about this, and it feeds
very nicely into a Facebook post that I saw the
other day and I can't remember for the life of
me where it was found, but it was a comic
of different people with disabilities in various situations. So there
(10:23):
was a, um, a lady in a wheelchair, and a
woman came and put her arm around her. It was
a vision impaired person, and someone was touching her shoulder.
And then it was like a normal person in a bar,
and this creepy dude was hitting on her. And the
basic premises of the comic was unwanted. Physical touch in
any situation is not okay. It doesn't matter if you
(10:45):
are disabled or if you're a pretty young chick sitting
at a bar. If you don't want to be touched
and somebody crosses that boundary, no matter the situation, it
is not okay. And I agree with Lily. I've had
it before where I thought I have been accosted because
someone's just come up and grabbed me and yanked me
out somewhere and I was like, oh, kid, this way.
(11:08):
And you literally you do think you're being accosted because
it just comes from nowhere. You could be in your
own little world thinking about your own day's problems, and
somebody just comes up and grabs you. It's really scary.
All right.
S3 (11:20):
We're going off to a completely different tangent now. I
believe we are talking to Stephen, not your Stephen, the
other Stephen.
S5 (11:29):
So you thank them and send them on their way.
So let's change. As I got older, I think I
was a bit more of a rude, arrogant teenager. So.
But yeah, when I think, uh, probably the biggest change
was when I did my guide dog training, they told
me that if someone offers you a seat on the
bus or the train, you should should take it because
you want them to offer it and you won't. You should.
(11:52):
You should thank them. Be positive. Appreciative. Because if they
don't do it next time. For the the old person
with diabetes and neuropathy in their feet and vision impairment,
well that's a problem. So you should take it every time.
But appreciate it because you judging a book by its
cover but you don't necessarily know know the rest of
(12:13):
the story. So, uh, yeah, I think, uh, I'll be
as nice as I can and just, just be appreciative.
So I was using my Kansas City, walked into a
post the other day and a lady comes up, oh,
I'm so sorry. Something like that wasn't your fault. I
did that, like. And thank you, but definitely not your fault.
(12:33):
You didn't push me into it. So. Yeah, it's that
sort of thing like that. That's lovely, but definitely not
anything to do with you, so. But yeah, like, just
people trying to be nice and, uh, so just. Yeah.
UU (12:48):
Be nice and nice back.
S4 (12:56):
I agree with everything Steven said in that specific situation,
and I think the thing to highlight is that it
is situationally dependent. Uh, what we were talking about before
is an extreme situation where you're walking down the street
and somebody just grabs you. Now, in my experience, those
(13:20):
kind of altercations don't happen very often. Most people will
ask you and they will talk to you. And in
that situation, I do find it best to be positive.
Even if you don't need the help, just say, oh no,
I'm heading here. I'm. If you're coming the same way,
why don't we have a chat? I've done that before.
Or just, you know, be nice to them and send
(13:42):
them on their way. So it is situationally dependent. And
because I, I was becoming aware, you know, while we
were listening to Steve's thing that we I did sound
quite angry and, and a little bit too maybe aggressive before.
But again I will highlight that it is situationally dependent.
And what we were talking about before with Lily being
(14:04):
grabbed on the train is an extreme situation.
S3 (14:07):
Uh, I've encountered the situation where people have offered their
seats on the train in the past, and I've said
in the previous show, that's actually why I don't carry
a white cane anymore, because sometimes people who need that
seat more than I do have stood up and offered
their seat.
S4 (14:19):
Yeah, yeah, I've had that.
S3 (14:20):
That's kind of, um, you know, I'm I'm a perfectly
healthy person. I'm capable of standing, uh, I can understand. Okay.
A guide dog user. Yes. You're in a slightly different circumstance.
And I think really, it's for your dog more than
anything else, that you sit down because it leaves them
under the seat. So where they're safer. That's the way
I gather it.
S4 (14:40):
Well, I've been on the trams here in Adelaide in
peak hour traffic in the morning. And you know when
you get on and you walk to the opposite wall
or the opposite side of the tram, and I've literally
had to stand there and wedge Lacey between me and
the pole or me and the wall, because nobody stood up,
or it's just so full that getting to a seat
(15:01):
is more of a hassle than just standing there for
a 5 or 10 minutes, and I've got absolutely no
problem with standing. But yeah, you're right, most people will
offer it to you, even if they really do need
it more than you. And I think that comes from
a perception of people with disabilities that we are more
frail or less physically capable.
S3 (15:20):
Yeah. And as I said, the circumstances at that stage
I was only 17 or something like that. So I
was not unhealthy in the slightest. And so, yes, as
we all grow and we learn about these things. All right.
So next up we have Emma.
S6 (15:36):
It really depends like if someone just grabbed my arm
without telling me I move away from them, and if
they're always up close in my space, I have to say, look,
I'm okay. Please, I don't need your help. I can manage,
but sometimes, well, a lot of the time when people help,
(15:59):
they're they're great. I really do appreciate their help, especially
when it comes to road crossings, which I hate with
a passion. I hate crossing roads if I can help it,
but I think this is probably relevant to the question
that you asked me as well about overly helpful people.
When it comes to people that talk at me to
(16:20):
the person with me oh, does he need this? Is
she okay? Does she need help? I have to keep saying,
you can talk to me. I'm here. You can speak
to me. Okay. How often do you experience that? It's
not an everyday thing, really, but often enough to get annoyed,
(16:40):
and yet often enough that it gets annoying.
S3 (16:48):
Let's go on off topic a little bit, but.
S4 (16:51):
It's the same thing.
S3 (16:51):
Though. Yeah, um, I think we should do a whole
show about that, about how we don't have, you know,
we suddenly don't have our own agency because since I've
been using a disability worker, I've been getting that too.
S4 (17:08):
I made it a point to my support workers. Um,
and I do this now. If ever I travel with
a new support worker, my first thing that I'll say
before we go out is, look, people are going to
come to you and ask you what I want. Never
assume that you know what I want. Direct them to
me because I can speak for myself now. My support worker, Megan,
(17:31):
is a fiery little chick and she straight up just
tell them, hey, why don't you ask her? She has
a voice. She can speak, and you know, that puts
people off. But it works. And, you know, my other
support workers are starting to come around to that way
of thinking as well, because I explained to them, the
minute that you start talking for me, even if, yes,
(17:52):
you do know what I want, you do know how
I take my coffee or whatever you're taking away from
my agency. Like, what if I wanted a hot chocolate
that day? I mean, what are you going to do?
You know, you're taking away from my free will. You're
taking away from my ability to speak for myself, my agency,
my independence in that situation. And it can be very frustrating. So,
(18:16):
you know, most of the time, I think people are
getting better at this. But most of the time when
it does happen, my support workers or people with me
will say, ah, I don't know what she wants. Why
don't you ask her?
S3 (18:27):
Mm mm. Interesting sort of thing. And if you've got
that experience yourself, um, dear listener.
S4 (18:33):
Please do please touch.
S3 (18:34):
Please email us because we'd love to hear about some
of those stories. Um, it's just listening to Emma. Now
that I sort of thought that would make an interesting, um,
episode title. Um, yeah. Um, look at look at me.
Not my support worker, please. Anyway.
S4 (18:49):
Uh, need some refining, but we'll get there.
S3 (18:51):
Yes. That's right. Who have we got up next? Lizzie.
S4 (18:54):
I believe we have Carly.
S1 (18:59):
It's just a matter of. I guess people get, I
don't know. It can be awkward for some people. That's
how I'd probably explain it. They they. I'll tell them
straight up front. I'll let you know, you know, if
I need help. But let me try to do this
by myself. Just kind of. I'm not afraid to use
my voice and just say it because then it stops.
(19:19):
It makes them not feel awkward and just, uh, I'm
pretty bad with, you know, blind jokes. And soon as
I have a laugh, I think the next person lightens up.
I found, you know, especially in my job I do now.
I do mentoring and coaching in a disability job agency.
And also I've just completed my diploma in counselling. So,
(19:41):
you know, to have have that behind me as well.
It's just understanding that every individual at every different stage
they're at is going to react different. So it's just
about being mindful and being yeah, upfront with with the
next person.
S3 (20:04):
Well she's very Zen. That's that's all I'm going to say.
Very Zen. That's a very balanced. And so we've had
one extreme to the other, and now we've got something
in the middle. I mean, uh, any any comments there
go her.
S4 (20:18):
I mean, I think to some extent, to some extent,
what she said about tailoring your response to the individual
is so true. You're going to get those aggro people
that if you don't accept their help, it's like a
man that tries to buy you drinks in the bar.
Like if you say no, They're gonna hate you. Yeah.
So what do you do? You're not going to make
them feel comfortable at the expense of your own comfortability.
(20:40):
So you're going to have to say no and just
deal with that. But there are some people who are very, like,
genuinely open to education or a good chat, like, um,
I was just alluding to before I had someone ask
me for help, I was walking down from the Royal
Adelaide Hospital back to the railway station. I knew where
I was going. I had someone ask me if I
needed any help and I said, no, but I'm going
(21:01):
this way. And it oh yeah, so am I. I said,
oh great. Well, why don't we walk together and I'll,
we can have a chat, you know, if you're open
to that. If you want to talk, we can talk
and um. Yeah. So during the 15 minute walk, we, uh,
we talked about blindness and what it was like and
assistance and how mobility and all the topics in between
that you could possibly cram into 15 minutes while walking
(21:22):
with a massive backpack. And, uh, it was a very
interesting experience. It's the only experience I've had of that nature.
But there are people that are open to having a
chat and to learning. So I think that's the important
thing to remember when you respond to these people.
S3 (21:38):
The white cane and the guide dog can attract all
sorts really in some ways. I mean, some people will
see either especially a white cane and they will run
for the hills, but others seem to see this as
some sort of, um, a lantern. Oh, here's somebody that
needs my help, or I've got to do my.
S4 (21:54):
Good deed for the.
S3 (21:55):
Day. Now I'm wondering, have I ever told you the
story of the couple that asked us about heaven?
S4 (22:01):
Do I want to know this? Right. Just. Just saying.
S3 (22:04):
Okay. So me and my friend Roberto were walking down
Mitchell Street in Darwin. We were about to head on.
First stop of our big nights out, and I was
able to see a couple cross the road to come
and talk to us, and I was like, okay. And
the first thing that the woman in the couple says is,
(22:28):
has anybody told you about heaven? And I piped up
because I'd just come back from Canberra, that I know
all about heaven. It's a gay club in Canberra. Now
we could both see the absolute horrified and confused looks
on their faces, because then they looked at the pair
of us big strapping lads and I was like, are they?
(22:50):
And of course we just kept walking. So the Kingdom
of heaven was the last thing on our minds at
that stage, unless it was in the arms of a
pretty girl. Oh.
S4 (23:00):
Okay. I am a religious, I'm a Christian, I'm a
new Christian. However, I have had this experience of, uh,
a woman and her three kids, a young, uh, I'm
going to say probably Jehovah's Witness. I'm not quite sure. Woman.
She was quite fanatical in her belief that this would work.
(23:20):
Her and her children put their hands over my eyes
and prayed for me. Now, now I can understand why
they did that. But as an atheist at the time,
I was not impressed. And even now, with my new
found faith, I would have to say I'm sorry, but
I don't think that's appropriate.
S3 (23:39):
Well, at least ask first.
S4 (23:41):
I mean, I am not blind because of my sinful nature,
I can tell you that now. I certainly wasn't sinning
in my mother's womb, and I certainly wasn't sinning when
I was born. So my blindness has nothing to do
with that. So I think it is highly inappropriate to, uh,
for that discussion to be had.
S3 (24:00):
Anyway, um, the next talking to Jody. Jody took a
little while to warm to this subject when you talked
to her about it. Mhm.
S7 (24:10):
But now that I've actually come across any overly helpful
people I can.
S6 (24:16):
The more blind you look or appear, the more you
get them.
S4 (24:19):
So I guess your husband would get them more.
S6 (24:21):
Than you would.
S7 (24:22):
Yeah I think that, I think he seems to attract
when he goes out to the, to the shops, our
local shops. On his own. He seems to attract a
lot of the old grannies because they keep saying how
nice the dog is and stuff. Um, but I haven't really. No,
I haven't really come across that, to be honest.
S6 (24:40):
Because I find, like with my personal experience, I've got
a seeing eye dog also, and when we're out and about,
I don't even have to be looking for assistance and
someone will automatically come up and oh, do you need
some help crossing the road or getting to this or
that place? Or where are you going? I can get
you there and I'm just I don't need that help,
(25:00):
but thank you. You know, um, I know a lot
of blind and visually impaired people who have a cane
or a dog get a lot of that sort of
overly helpful assistance from people.
S7 (25:10):
Yeah, I guess it depends on your personality and the
type of person you are. Whereas my hubby would probably
just stop and start chatting to them and, you know,
he'd be late for whatever it was he was trying
to get to. Um, but it depends on the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's it's just, you know, um, I don't know. I
think the more people ask, I think it's good because,
(25:32):
you know, you never know the day when it might
come that you actually do need help. And if it like,
just for example, for our bus drivers around here, I
live in a, in a small sort of, um, I
it's not rural, but I live in a small place.
And if I was to not know exactly where I
was going, I'd tell the bus driver and he would
radio ahead and tell the next bus driver on the
(25:53):
next route that, you know, I'm coming, or can you
look out for me? Or if I'm, I know I'm
returning at a certain time, I'll say, oh, can you
radio the next driver and just let him know I'll be,
you know, looking for the bus or something like that.
So I just. Yeah, I guess I've been lucky. It
would be completely different in big cities where you don't
see the same drivers, you know, two days in a
row sort of thing.
S3 (26:19):
Bus drivers are an interesting one. Um, sometimes they can
be extremely, extremely helpful. other times. I've had some really
shocking experiences with them.
S4 (26:29):
Oh, you are not the only one.
S3 (26:32):
Uh, if I mean us talking, for example, with Santi
last year, who is developing the Halo app, and he
had something very valid to say, and that is, they're
doing 100 other things anyway, so you can't rely on
them remembering your stop. So that's the way I kind
of consider it nowadays when if we've got all these
(26:53):
wonderful technology, then don't burden them with your stop, you know,
work it out yourself. But I've had in the past
flagged down buses and have not been able to see
the numbers on the front. And so showing my blind
pass to them and said, is this such and such
a number? And they've said, well, what does it say
on the front? And I'm going, well, I don't know.
(27:14):
This is a blind pass.
S4 (27:15):
I've never had that because I look blind. People are
generally a bit more nicer to me about that.
S3 (27:22):
So but yes, even just, you know, waving this thing
quite close to their thing. But obviously, again, they've got
a million things on their mind, so I'm not going
to complain about it. And so yes, in a rural
area potentially, yes. And sometimes, you know, in Darwin it
was actually pretty good as well, I've got to say.
So there was only a few bus routes, and it
(27:42):
did seem to work out nine out of ten times.
It was just the odd occasional time where they were
off in their own little world and they forgot this.
Stop that. Yes, it wouldn't work out.
S4 (27:51):
I've had the experience, uh, completely different. I've gotten on
the bus and a driver has pat my dog on
the way in. Oh. And I was with my friend Lisa,
who was quite vocal, and she was like, um, that's
not allowed. The sign says, do not, Pat, you're not
exempt from this rule. And he was like, too late. Anyway,
(28:13):
she reported him to Adelaide Metro. But I've had bus
drivers do that. I've never had a really rude like
I've had bus drivers that have been grumpy and testy.
And you can tell they want to snark at you.
S3 (28:23):
Yeah, but.
S4 (28:24):
They've got no reason to because I'm always like, hey,
how are you doing? Thanks, driver. I always try to
be positive because I never want to give those grumpy
people a reason to snark at me.
S3 (28:34):
The best thing that I have in my possession now
is a metro card when it comes to taking buses. Because.
Because there are so many times where I've walked past,
the bus driver flashed my pass and they haven't looked
at it, and they call you out as you're halfway
across the bus trying to sit down somewhere. Hey, you
haven't done your Metro pass. That doesn't happen anymore because
(28:57):
pretty much in every capital city in Australia now we've
all got metro passes.
S4 (29:01):
Yeah, even the blind pass is a metro card. That's right.
And it says on the back in Braille metro card.
So yeah, I buzzed mine and my metro card when
I get in. Actually, not all the time. I'm hopefully
no inspectors catch me out, but I always have it
with me ready to go. So if I need to,
I'll buzz it on the thing. But yeah, I think
the invention of having it all in one makes things
(29:22):
a lot easier. Oh, it.
S3 (29:23):
Is a lot easier. And being able to walk through
train gantries and stuff like that. It's only when you're
interstate and you have to actually physically show your past
to somebody again, that you realize how inconvenient it was before.
But again, it's something where you do actually have to
engage the bus driver when when you go on the
bus and say, hey, this is an interstate blind pass. We're,
(29:46):
in theory, allowed to travel free, and usually they're pretty
good with that. Anyway, I haven't had any rejections from
that at all. Here's Sam Coley.
S8 (29:56):
A few years ago, somebody who they'd just met me,
and one of the first things they did was when
they were showing me this new little, new little house
they'd built out the back of their backyard. They grabbed
me by the arm and dragged me around to show
me all this stuff because, well, their their motivation wasn't
(30:19):
that great either. They were like, they basically said, oh,
I want you to know where this is. So you
don't run into it and break it and all that
sort of thing. And it did not make a great
impression on me as a first impression. So that's not
been that wasn't a great experience.
S3 (30:41):
Being rushed around and dragged around. I've had friends who
someone's grabbed the end of their cane and wheeled them
around that way. Um, has that happened to you before?
S4 (30:54):
Not for a long time. Because, like, I spent a
majority of the last ten years with Lily, and. Yeah,
I mean, but, yes, that did happen. Um, I even
had someone suggest that I use my cane as, like,
a guide rope thing so that they could guide me around.
And I'm like, well, how am I gonna know where
there are lips in the ground and steps? And they
(31:15):
couldn't seem to see beyond that. So that was quite humorous.
But yeah, I mean, this is just strange. People are strange.
S3 (31:24):
Uh, again, it's assumption. It's just I'm going to assume
that I.
S4 (31:29):
Know what's best, that.
S3 (31:30):
I know what's best. All right, so we are finishing
up with Lars, who we spoke to a couple of
weeks ago. Um, who is, uh, what was his role
again with the European?
S4 (31:41):
He is the executive director of the European Blind Union.
S3 (31:46):
And. Well, Lizzy dropped this in as one of the
last questions, and I sort of went, you know what?
I'm keeping this one for another week. And this, dear listener,
is why.
S9 (32:00):
Well, first of all, I always try to be myself
and sort of in an educational and explaining to people, uh, attitude.
It's very it's very rare that I would lose patience
or get, I don't know, angry or whatever in a
more aggressive way because I always think at the end
(32:22):
of the day, people have good intentions in most of them.
Maybe exceptions, but most people have good intentions and often
don't know, just don't know how to express them actually.
And then sort of are maybe lost and therefore use
the wrong word or use the wrong gesture or sort
(32:42):
of over want to overhelp. And so so it's very
I try to really stay always calm and explain to
people where I need help or sometimes also that I
don't want to accept their help now because, I mean,
there's no point for me accepting help if I'm 20m
away from my from my own doorstep. I mean, this
is just, you know, these things, but it requires explanation
(33:06):
and again and again, and this is sometimes tough. And
I'm probably, uh, I probably I'm sure you know, this. Also,
sometimes you're you're not always in the same mood, of course, either.
I mean, you know, there are moments where I want
to talk about, uh, me being blind and what I need,
what I don't need and when. But there are also
(33:28):
moments where, I mean, after a hard day at work or,
you know, where you just want to sort of just
walk your way and you're not into the chatty mode
of about your disability all the time either. So that
is kind of educational mode is sometimes also not there.
And so sometimes, uh, tough than to say, well, can
you please basically let me in pieces the answer. But for.
S10 (33:50):
Sure you.
S9 (33:50):
Don't you don't say that too often.
S3 (33:54):
Well, that is a wrap for this week. A big
thank you to Maddie, Lily. Stephen. Emma. Carly. That's right. Carly. Jody. Sam, Carly.
And of course, the mighty Lars. And of course, thank
you as well for listening. You can find the podcast
of this program including some extra content on Apple, Spotify,
(34:15):
Google or your favorite podcast platform.
S4 (34:18):
On next week's show, it's International Women's Day. To celebrate
this auspicious occasion, I'll be kicking Sam out of the
studio so that we can celebrate in style. I'll go.
S3 (34:29):
Now. I'll just have a beer. Bye.
S4 (34:31):
But between now and then, please do get in touch
with the show. Whether you have experience of any of
the issues covered in this week's episode of Studio One,
or whether you think there's something we should be talking about.
You never know. Your story and insight may help someone
who's dealing with something similar. You can reach us via
email at studio One at Vision Australia. Org that's studio
(34:52):
number one at Vision australia.org. Or you can find us
on social media, whether that be Facebook or Instagram. At
VA Radio Network we want to hear from you. Till
next week, bye bye.
S1 (35:04):
Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community
Broadcasting Foundation for Studio One.
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