October 9, 2025 • 31 mins
Matt Bair and Ryan Hedrick take a look at how complicated it can be to care for someone in recovery. The relationship shifts, emotions run high, and boundaries can blur — especially when the phone rings and it’s your loved one on the other end. Whether they’re trying to stay clean, have slipped back, or the roles have reversed and now you’re the one calling them, Matt and Ryan talk through how addiction and recovery change both people. This episode explores the before, during, and after of recovery — and what it really takes to stay connected through it all.
You can find us on X and Instagram: @sobriety_pod. Supporting Sobriety is also available on major podcast platforms like Spotify and Apple. Please like, subscribe, and rate our podcast!
Resources:
Al-Anon: Al-Anon.org
Meetings: aa.rgroup.org/meengs
NA Meetings: virtual-na.orginte
Suicide Prevention Hotline: (800) 273-8255
- National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) - Resources for Families
- Families Against Narcotics (FAN) - Support for Families
- SAMHSA’s National Helpline (1-800-662-HELP)
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the Supporting Sobriety podcast, dedicated to the unsung
heroes behind those struggling with addiction. They're friends and family
like you who'll share insights, stories and resources to help
you support your loved ones and care for yourself on
the recovery journey.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Time was running out. The jail phone voice kept taking down.
Four minutes left, three minutes left. Man, I was desperate
as fuck. I needed my dad to send money. I
was hungry, I was locked up. I was just trying
to survive.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
What I didn't know then.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Was that my half brother and two half sisters had
already been instructed not to take my calls. You know,
you have to call collect when you're calling from jail man.
But it was draining my dad emotionally and financially. But
I just kept calling every night. You see, I didn't
meet my dad until I was eighteen, So once I did,
(01:03):
I leaned on him hard, guilt, tripping him all the
way to the bank. And every time we talked, he'd say, Man,
when you get out, you might want to go to rehab,
or you might want to go to a meeting, or
you might just want to give up using the drugs. Altogether.
I didn't care about that then, man, I was just
locked and loaded in my addiction. But today I hear
(01:25):
those words loud and clear, Dad, I really do. Don't
use the day at a time, lean on people, build
a program, just keep it simple. My name is Ryan Headrick,
one half of the Supporting Sobriety Podcast, and I am
grateful to be on this recovery journey and sharing my experience,
strength and hope with you. And welcome to the Supporting
(01:47):
Sobriety Podcast. I made my annual pilgrimage to Chicago to
see a White Sox game with my work family up
in Chicago, and that's about a three hour drive from Indianapolis,
home of Supporting Sobridy, and I'm coming back. It's about
one in the morning.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Everything I wanted out of the trip, but it was
just fantastic to drive. I'm always worried about it with
my piece of shit car, but I'm coming back. Southbound
sixty five is how you get back to Indianapolis.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
And I'm almost home.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
I can see the ramp, I can smell the ramp,
I can smell the fresh pavement, and we hit this
rolling closure just about a mile and a half from
my home. Think about this for three miles through Chicago
traffic and I'm almost toming now interesting is completely closed
one thirty in the morning, and my god.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I'm surrounded by drunks. Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Yes, it was just to the right of me, to
the left of me, in front and back. I had
the motorcycle Revenue is engine and he was listening to
Bob Singer, you know, all the way through the city.
And then I had the R and B music coming
in through the other window, and behind me, everybody was
having a good time but me and I'm just sitting
there and it's the first time I've really even thought
(02:55):
about drinking all summer long, was in this stopped traffic
because I'm looking around everybody smiling, have a good time,
and I'm losing my fucking mind because I'm so close
to home. And I make the text and we're texting
back and forth with a person in my recovery, and
you know, it's just go home, You're gonna be fine.
And the closure only lasted thirty minutes. But my god,
(03:18):
being around all those drunks and such in drinking and
driving is very bad thing to do. But a lot
of people were doing it at this moment, and I
wanted to be one of the people drinking and driving
at the moment. It's the beauty of recovery reaching out
to somebody and them reaching out to you and saying, yeah,
if you keep doing.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
This, you're going to be fine. And that's what we're
talking about today.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
My name is Matt Bear, co host of the Supporting
Sobriety Podcast.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
For you the caregiver, I found hope in the midst
of an overwhelming situation.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Alcoholism can affect it any family. Are you in an
overwhelming situation? Because if someone else is drinking, alan On
and Alatine can help. Call eight sixty six two zero
zero zero zero three three or visit alanon dot org slash.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
This is the Supporting Sobriety Podcast.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Welcome to the Supporting Sobriety Podcast at Sobriety, Underscore pod
on x and Instagram. Please like, subscribe, and rate on Apple,
Spotify or wherever you're getting your podcast right now, and
please keep those five star ratings coming. We really need
them so our podcast shows up. More on your timeline.
(04:32):
Today's episode, Your addict is calling, What do you say?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Number one?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Your addict is preventing relapse. Number two, your addict has relapsed.
Number three, roles reversed. Now you're calling your addict. Now
let's dig.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
In Supporting Sobriety podcast, and today we're talking about you know,
we want to arm the caregiver with the best possible
information from our experiences on this podcast. It's what we do,
it's what we like to do. When today we're talking
about if you have an addict or alcoholic calling you
and being like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna drink or
I'm gonna use, or calling or being like, oh goodness,
(05:08):
that's me and you're a mass, you're a mass, Matt,
you're drunk again. Thank god, that hasn't been the case
for over four years. But and then saying maybe you
want to call and check on your addict or alcoholics.
So there are three points here we want to talk
about and investigate a little bit in the first one
being your addict is preventing relapse.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
So Ryan say, I'm calling.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
You right now as somebody as I know, I've had
a hell of a day, hell of a week, hel
of a month, maybe a bad year.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So hey, Ryan, how you doing? Man? Hey, what's up now?
Not much.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
It's been a shitty week. Boss is mad at me.
Wife left me. I'm not married.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
A wife left me and everything just going to shit.
Are you drunk? No? No, I haven't even thought about
using No.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
You know what, Let's start right there, man, let's start
right there. So what what actually are what went right
for you? What are you grateful for? Man, I'm not
really grateful for anything right now. I mean, yeah, it's
everything sucks right now. I'm just you know, yeah, food
on my table, a roof over my head.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
But what is that? I mean, I want to make
more money to travel, right And that's that's what I'm
mad about. And I'm not happy about my position in life.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
So listen, you can't get there all at once, man.
You know, it's a journey. And people that are the
most successful people in the world didn't start at the top.
They work their way, So why are you exempt. You
need to work your way at the top.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Man.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Listen, Let's let's unpack this a little bit. What's really
going on? What are you feeling, what's the what's at
the center of this for you? Well, I keep hearing
you and other people say this over and over again,
Like you know, I get into sobriety, and I just
expected so much more by now.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I mean, I why am I?
Speaker 4 (06:46):
I mean I'm looking at across as somebody that I
think that I'm mortalented and they make more money than me,
and I don't think that's fair. I mean, it's it's bullshit.
I mean, where's where are my rewards for recovery? Because
I'm not seeing them? So let me get straight. So
you didn't wake up with a hangover, You didn't wake
up next to somebody that you don't even know who
the hell they are. You still have all the money
(07:07):
in your bank account that you went to sleep with,
and you didn't damage your car and a hit and
run last night and the police aren't looking for you right?
Well no, but I mean, yeah, that's true, isn't Isn't
that a great change from the way we used to be?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
But that's always what you're telling me. Man.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
I mean, I want the dollars And yeah, nobody is
backed into my car like they did that time on
mass Ave and I took off running because I was
wicked drunk. Maybe I should be grateful for that, but
I'm not. I want to see something now. I want
to see something tangible and I'm just tired of them. Man,
I just feel angry. Here's the payoff, man, you are
(07:44):
learning and growing through this process. This process is gonna
bring some pain, it's gonna bring some feelings, but you're
not drinking over those feelings like you used to. Let's
start off right there.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
The baseline for this conversation is that you don't have
to drink or use because of the way you feel.
So you're growing despite what your disease is telling you.
You have a disease that is talking to you and
making you tell yourself you don't even have a disease.
That's how insidious and settle this stuff is. So you're
(08:17):
doing a lot better than your feeling. And I think
what you're going through right now, Matt, is you're matching
your insides with people's outsides. And when we do that,
we set ourselves up for failure. You can never live
up to your own expectations because your own expectations are unrealistic.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
As fuck.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
You don't.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
You can never compare yourself to yourself because you've set
such lofty goals that even when you achieve the dreams
and hopes that you're talking about, you still won't be satisfied.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Ooh, I guess, I guess I kind of see what
you're saying there. But I just and I'm not saying
I've thought about drinking, because no way, I never do that,
But I kind of get this feeling that people thought
I was a lot more fun when I was drinking.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Everything's on the table, everything's on the table. You aren't.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
You aren't drunk proof. You can still go back for
that pain, your misery can be refunded. But thank god
you're in a position to talk about this. And that's
exactly what we do. We unpack this with another person
who cares and loves us and can see us coming,
even when we can't see ourself coming.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
You know, now that you mentioned it, I did. I
was able to do something to my car last week
and I actually had the money to pay for it.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
And I did get up the other morning.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
And I was driving into the city and it was
like covered in fog and it was really beautiful, and
I would.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Have noticed that when I'm drunking.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I tell you what, I'll stay sober today, just today, yeah,
and then we'll see how tomorrow will.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And before you get off the phone with me, why
don't you give me three things that you are agreed for?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Suh? Okay. One, I was able to pay for my
car and I have a DRU.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
I have a ble car. There you go because of that. Two,
despite my best efforts, I'm still employed. M Yeah, that's
something that I started in recovery that I forget.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Are you getting paycheck now? Yes? Yes, yes, look at that.
Stop it make me feel better. They're not going to
bounce your paycheck. Okay.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
And the third one, I know I could wake up
tomorrow without my liver protruding out of my stomach, which
I had a problem with, which is something else you know,
with four years of recovery that I forget all the time.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, how about this? Do you have cirrhosis of the liver?
Speaker 3 (10:35):
No? Been diagnosed with?
Speaker 6 (10:37):
No?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
No, Yes, I have all this to be grateful for you.
Do you have a Do you have a court date
with the d U I next, Yes, No, my god,
it's fine. Things. We'll get into the we'll get into
the sautiful of recovery works, get into the solution one day.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
This is okay now, Ryan, as I don't want to
say professional because we don't get paid for any of
our recovery work. But obviously Ryan really knows what he's
talking about when it comes to coaching somebody out of
these phone calls that we make, when we call and
we say, woe is me, I'm thinking about using, and
you know, I, purposely there in that role play said.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
That, oh no, I haven't thought about drinking.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
And you know that's bullshit, caregiver, I mean, that's absolute
bullshit when I say I'm thinking about drinking.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
No, I'm making that call with drinking in my mind.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
So I want to also make one thing clear within
that role play, like it's okay to admit if you're
an addict, or if you're a caregiver, it's okay for
you to listen to your loved one tell you that
they want to use, because that's a natural that's a
natural thing. A lot of people think that recovery will
(11:48):
make you exempt from not wanting to use.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I walked into a lounge the other night in Indianapolis
where we taped the show, and instantly I thought about
cocaine because I knew ocaine was in that bar, but
I didn't act on it. And that's the difference between
us now and the role play. Matt was thinking about
maybe taking a drink. He had been triggered or his
emotions were overwhelming him. The totality of this, yeah, but
(12:14):
he didn't do it. What it changed from the way
that we used to be Number two?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Your addict or alcoholic has relapsed, like like we had
an old rotary phone?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
All right, Matt, is that you? Yeah? Oh? Man?
Speaker 4 (12:34):
I used to just uh, I just friend requested this
one one. Are you where are you at? Man bad?
I have an apartment right now? And yeah, I just uh, yeah, dude.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
This with this chick.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
She's really into me, I think because I just sent
her a friend request and she has an answer back.
But I know she's going to I just uh, I
just had an.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Hour conversation with my dad. I told him what business
was man? Yeah doing? Dude? Slow down? How you doing? Dude?
You are you are drunk? Yeah? What dude?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Fuck you man? And you're drunk drunk? I'm not drunk.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
You're calling me at two in the morning. You're waking. Yes,
it's one o'clock Central time. I have to be in
the newsroom in two hours. What are you doing to me?
Manuck traffic? Fucking traffic You're not going anywhere.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
You're not going anywhere coming over with three people and
we're going to do an intervention.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
We'll not really, man, I'm not drunking, dude, you can't even.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
So, Matt has gone past the point of where we
suggest that you go to and he is now he's
now used, he's out of the solution, and he's clearly
into a problem. And here's the first here's the first
thing I would say. I would say, Matt, you need
to rein it, back in and sleep this off, because
(13:57):
there's nothing as the caregiver that you can possibly do
once your addict has relapsed. You you are powerless, man.
You want to talk about the first step and living
that first step, the unmanageability and the powerlessness that there's
a tidal wave of powerlessness that is coming at you
and you're just you're you can't do anything once your
(14:19):
addict has relapsed. Now here's what you can do. You
can hang up the phone, you can pray, you could
call somebody that you know that loves you well and
knows you well, and you can build a plan around
the solution. Because Matt, this is the problem. We have
gone past the point in overturn once you use, you
(14:42):
were in the grips of active addiction.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
And this is why we said do the work and recovery,
and that recovery is hard work. And we've talked about
this ad nauseum the last few episodes and it needs
to be repeated. You get under recovery, you get anything
you're good at. Think about how good you are. I mean,
we work for a local radio station WIBC in Indianapolists.
Think about where you started with your news here as
(15:05):
compared to where you are now. Right, Well, you got better.
The same thing with me as I do the traffic
in my other radio. Anything that you want to be
good at, especially recovery, you have to work at. And
if I'm making that call already drunk, that's on me.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I think one thing that the caregiver. You know, this
can get really personal. I don't think we talk about
this enough on our podcast. This can get really personal
for the caregiver because you caregiver have invested so much,
You've poured so much energy, time and resources into your
loved one, not to use and suddenly they're calling you,
and Matt's calling me, and what the fuck he's using?
(15:46):
Didn't anything. I say, resonate with him. Why is he
doing this to me? Why is he doing this to
our family? Why is he being so selfish? And this
is not about you, caregiver. This is about the disease
of addiction manifesting in all the spiritual evilness that it does.
And now your loved one has not taken his or
(16:08):
her responsibility to stay clean and sober, and they have
made the conscious decision to use. They have not done
anything to you, They have not done anything to your family.
They have actually done that to ourselves. There's a point
in the literature, the NA literature. And I know I'm
breaking all kinds of traditions when I say this, but
it needs.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
To be said.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
We do lots of people harm, great harm, it says,
But most of all, we harm ourselves because when we use,
that's who we're really harming, is us, Matt. We're not
harming the caregiver. We're hurting their feelings, maybe their egos
bruised because they think they have the juice to keep
us clean. But no, man, we're hurting ourselves because when
we use, we're the ones who are going to die
(16:51):
a slow spiritual death, if not a physical one.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
I'm so glad you brought that up because for the
first time in our lives and our you know, for
the addict and alcoholic can use, for the first time
in our lives, were assigned culpability. For the first time
in our lives. It's like we are finally personally responsible
for ourselves. And we talk about this because I don't
(17:15):
think I'm false or erroneous in any case when I
say that the caregivers never on the hook for our recovery,
never never ever relapse, going into relapse coming out of it.
We have to make the decision. We have to say
those magic words, I'm ready, and then we have to
follow up by doing the hard work. And with that,
with knowing that we are the ones responsible, it's absolving
(17:38):
all of our loved ones from any kind of responsibility whatsoever,
because it is our responsibility. We have to take care
of ourselves, something that I avoided doing for twenty five
years of use.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I was in like a meeting after the meeting situation
a couple of weeks ago, ME and a few people
went out to eat and this guy was talking about
how personal he took it when his sponsor went out
to use and he's like all these eye statements. He's like,
but I put so much time, I put so much effort,
I wasted so much time on phone calls. And it's
(18:10):
not That's exactly the type of attitude that we need
to check at the door, because when we have these
expectations of people that have been using for so long,
I mean most addicts on the average have been using
for fifteen to twenty years once they decide to get
their shit together, So once they get in recovery, they
already have a track record of decades and decades of using,
(18:33):
masking their feelings by using and drinking. And we think
that we have the juice to keep them clean after
they have exhibited this behavior over and over and over again.
Think about anything that you've done for a long time
that's now habit, and how hard that habit is to break.
Who are we to tell an addict that we have
the power to keep them clean and sober if they're
(18:55):
not doing the work.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
There's some mego there. You know, we're taking recovery to
surrender our ego. Ego doesn't mean that we think we're
hot shit. Ego means that we think we're the center
of the world and that's my ego in that case. Yeah,
I thought I was the center of the world and
everything I touched turned the shit.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
That's what my ego tells me and us. Using and
drinking again is not an indictment on your love and support,
like we need your love and support. But it's only
one component of recovery. The other components look like sponsorship
and meetings in prayer and meditation and reading the literature.
When nobody's watching, it's not what we're doing that when
(19:35):
people are watching that counts. It's what we are doing
when people aren't watching. That's the character. That's when recovery
is best exhibited, Matt. When nobody's looking, when the world
has turned its side to us and they're doing what
we're What are we doing behind closed doors to strengthen
our recovery? That's what really matters. Number three roles reversed.
(19:56):
Now you're calling the addict, Wow, what's.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Going on here?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Well, you know, I picked up the phone. I'm just
checking in on you. I'm just checking in. I want
to see how you're doing. I haven't heard from you
in a couple of days. In fact, now it's been
it's been about a week where you've been what are
you doing? And your attict calls and they're not as
happy as you think they should be. You're not as
they're not as cheery. So hear you like, like, what
(20:22):
is going on? Are you using again? Like that's what
my mother used to tell me? Your voice sounds different? Well, yeah,
you just woke me up, you know, I just I've
woken up, Like what do you want?
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Mom?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
You're a little sharp with me. Weren't you happier to
hear from me?
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Like?
Speaker 2 (20:39):
These conversations can go sideways real quick, Matt, and they
could get ugly if we're not careful about our tone,
if we're not careful about the words we're using, because
words matter.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Well, what it comes down to is what we just said, Hey,
the caregiver cannot control our using. The caregiver can love
us and support us, and that'll help us not use,
but at all, ultimately, if the decision is on us.
I mean, I've been working with somebody and full disclosure,
there were some times that I've been talking to him
and I've thought to myself, this guy sounds like he
(21:12):
might have been into it again, you know.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
So you were taking his inventory. I was damn straight.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
I was taking his inventory when the fact of the
matter is it shouldn't matter whether he's using or not,
because there's nothing I can do with it except for love.
You know, That's my only weapon is through empathy and
my own experience and how I would feel. I have
to think in those conversations, try to remember how exactly
(21:37):
my emotions were when I was drinking talking to somebody
and try to sell them the fact that I wasn't drinking.
And at the end of the day, it just doesn't
matter if I got it sold or not, because it
was up to me. It was up to me whether
or not I was going to live a recovery life
or a drunken life.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, you know it's funny, my sponsor, I had a
really rough Monday. I left work. I wanted to burn
it all down. I wanted to pull the grenade pin
out and launched the grenade, and I wanted to watch
it no explode. And then I wanted to feel sorry
for myself and blame AB and C for my motivations
(22:15):
and my actions and stuff like that. So I'm texting
my sponsor and I put my phone on a mode
that disables my notifications, and he's like, why'd you disable
your notifications? Why are you not receiving phone calls? Why
you not receiving text messages? What's going on with you?
And I tend to forget that. My sponsor and I
(22:38):
are getting close and we're doing the work together, and
the closer we get, the more our feelings are coming
into play here, Like I care about him, he cares
about me, and he knows me well, and anything out
of the normal is a red flag. Right, So when
we call people on a daily basis or a regular
basis and build the relationships with them and they relapse
(23:01):
either spiritually, because you could relapse spiritually before you relapse physically.
Oftentimes that's what you do. Like, are we get pissed off?
Because we put a lot into these people? Just like
you're talking about with this guy, You're putting a lot
of time and energy into him. You're investing your time,
which is precious, and now he's not reacting the way
(23:22):
you want him to react. So you feel certain kind
of way.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
Yeah, it's kind of an indictment of my own ego,
you know, it's an indictment of meybe, like you said
a little bit spiritually sick here and forgetting that I
did surrender. And every day I have to you and
talk about making violating traditions of a twelve step recovery,
that I didn't remember, that my life becomes unmanageable when
I'm drinking, and that I have to make that surrender
(23:47):
to win. You know, I lose to win saying my
way doesn't work, that I am powerless over alcohol unless
I have the gout of my understanding.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
And I'm throwing about five.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Steps together all once here, and I apologize for that,
but that's exactly what it is, is that.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Surrendered to win.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
And I'm not doing that when I'm talking to this gentleman,
because I was there and I lived that life. And
as a caregiver, we have to constantly understand because we
are caregivers, right, I know, and you pointed that out.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
I believe it was episode fifty three or fifty.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Four how you were talking about being a caregiver now,
and yes, we are caregivers. As we proceed through recovery,
we stay sober and in recovery by giving it away.
That's the way we do it. And the bottom line is,
again it's our decision.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I didn't always agree with my mom and dad the
way they handled me in active addiction, But I now
see because there are a lot of people. There are
three or four people I could think specifically right now
that if they used I would want to reach through
the phone and strangle them because I've put a lot
of time and energy into them. And I know caregiver,
(24:56):
when you are loving on somebody, and especially if you
distance yourself and they've come back into your life under
the guise of I will recover, and you've set this
like boundary that as long as you recover, you're welcomed
in our home. And they suddenly like relapse, like how
pissed off and hurt? How hurts you must be? I
(25:16):
get it. It is, oh man, I mean somebody made
it's a painful promise. Yeah, it's a huge painful nobody's
ever made an amends to me. But I can only
imagine how to react if somebody made an amends to
me and said, hey, here's how.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
I'm going to do this from here out, and then
they don't do it. I mean I would be like, hey,
what am I Chockoliver recapping the list. Number one, your
addict is preventing relapse. Number two, Your addict has relapsed.
Number three, roles reversed. Now you're calling your addicts.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Yeah, when we come back, we're going to not roleplay.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
We're actually going to be ourselves and give you some
final thoughts on this. I tell you how to hook
up with the Supporting Sobriety community on the Supporting Sobriety Podcast.
I had changed the locks, didn't even know where she
was living, and one night she calls to say she's
getting treatment.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Can I drive?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
I almost hung up, but then I thought, that's my kid.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
I chose to put away the hurt and the fear
and just see my girl.
Speaker 6 (26:15):
Addiction is a disease. Standing by a loved one as
they fight. It will test your faith, patience, and sanity.
But it's possible when you see the person, not just
their disease. Learn more at seebyond addiction dot org.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
This is the Supporting Sobriety Podcast.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Welcome back to the Supporting Sobriety Podcast, where we talked
about your addict is calling?
Speaker 3 (26:43):
What do you say?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
So?
Speaker 2 (26:45):
I want to get real vulnerable with the audience real quick,
because this is the last podcast we're going to tape
before we go to my father's memorial in Potomac, Maryland
here in the middle of October, and I don't know
how I'm gonna feel. This is the first time that
I'm going to get complete closure. This is this is
(27:05):
an opportunity for me to get closure. Yes, but now
I'm going to be face to face in front of
my half sisters and half brother and the emotions are
going to be real. But here's what I have to
say about this. I already have a plan. I have
a recovery plan. I have a spiritual plan. And the
way I do this is that I use my resources
(27:26):
that I've learned in recovery. And I think that's what
today's episode is really all about. Right, It's like reaching
back into our bag of tools and thinking about all
the things that we did to get us to a
point where we felt a little freedom, a little gratitude.
How Matt and I talked about in the first point
(27:46):
about going back and forth, what are you grateful for?
What can I do to be in the solution? Because, right,
we spend so much time in the problem. The problem
is the drugs, The problem is the alcohol. What is
the solution? Talking about how not to use talking about
how we feel. And that's exactly what I plan to do.
I mean, this memorial, Matt, is gonna be It's gonna
(28:08):
be the closure. Like I've I watched my dad die
from eight hundred miles away. It's not the same thing
as being there by his side. It's not the same
thing as being in the same room when he's taking
his final breath. But this to me, in the middle
of October, in front of friends and family and listening
to memories of my dad, It's gonna be painful, but
I'm not gonna use no matter what, and we just
(28:30):
have to maintain the solution Matt is to is to
talk about how we feel like because if I unpack
how I feel before I actually feel it, chances are
it won't be as bad as what I expect it
to be, because I always expect the worst.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
At the foundation of what you just said, are you
doing this huge life experience? I can't think of anything
from my perception that that's been bigger for you than
this moment memorial as long as I've known you. And
that's just the way I say it. I hope and
pray and I will pray on this that people lean
(29:09):
on you that your family leans on you, because I
can't think of a better person for them to lean on,
especially with your strength.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Through your recovery.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
And regardless if that happens or not, this is I
just think it's going to be a very cathartic and
wonderful experience for you, with a lot of real pain
and emotion and hurt and you know, wondering and maybe
a little regret in there too, because we're human and
we feel all that, sure, But within all that so
(29:43):
fucking beautiful. Within all that, there's a gift of recovery
and that work, in that growth that you get from
an experience coming up like that. So thank you for
telling me. You just help me stay sober today.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
By telling.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
That will help me stay sober today, and I hope
more importantly it does a lot for you, caregiver. You
can find the supporting Sobriety podcast on any major podcast provider.
I use Spotify, Apple, whichever one comes up. What do
you say, smash that like rating?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Smash smash five star rating and what that does is
the more five star ratings we have, it just allows
the supporting sobriety podcasts to populate more on your podcast timeline,
and of course more recovery is always a great thing, right, yeah,
it is.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
And also you can find our supporting sobriety community Instagram.
We like to post pictures of our recovery on Instagram
just to show everybody that it can happen for you too.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
And and we'll be posting pictures of my father's memorial, okay,
just to let you guys know.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Yeah, follow us on x and Instagram.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Also at Sobriety Underscore pod. If you need a meeting,
alan On is a terrific resource. I realized that my
home group on Thursday, there's an allen On meeting right
across the way that a lot of people show up to.
So al Hyphenenon dot org aaaa dot Intergroup, dot org
na dot org. The suicide prevention line Now in most
(31:11):
big cities you could just dial nine eight eight. It
routes you right to the twenty four to seven a
seven day week call center. If you're not in one
of those big cities one eight hundred two seven three
eight two five five. And remember, when there's breath, there's hope.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Thank you for listening to the Supporting Sobriety Podcast
Welcome to the Supporting Sobriety podcast, dedicated to the unsung
heroes behind those struggling with addiction. They're friends and family
like you who'll share insights, stories and resources to help
you support your loved ones and care for yourself on
the recovery journey.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Time was running out. The jail phone voice kept taking down.
Four minutes left, three minutes left. Man, I was desperate
as fuck. I needed my dad to send money. I
was hungry, I was locked up. I was just trying
to survive.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
What I didn't know then.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Was that my half brother and two half sisters had
already been instructed not to take my calls. You know,
you have to call collect when you're calling from jail man.
But it was draining my dad emotionally and financially. But
I just kept calling every night. You see, I didn't
meet my dad until I was eighteen, So once I did,
(01:03):
I leaned on him hard, guilt, tripping him all the
way to the bank. And every time we talked, he'd say, Man,
when you get out, you might want to go to rehab,
or you might want to go to a meeting, or
you might just want to give up using the drugs. Altogether.
I didn't care about that then, man, I was just
locked and loaded in my addiction. But today I hear
(01:25):
those words loud and clear, Dad, I really do. Don't
use the day at a time, lean on people, build
a program, just keep it simple. My name is Ryan Headrick,
one half of the Supporting Sobriety Podcast, and I am
grateful to be on this recovery journey and sharing my experience,
strength and hope with you. And welcome to the Supporting
(01:47):
Sobriety Podcast. I made my annual pilgrimage to Chicago to
see a White Sox game with my work family up
in Chicago, and that's about a three hour drive from Indianapolis,
home of Supporting Sobridy, and I'm coming back. It's about
one in the morning.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Everything I wanted out of the trip, but it was
just fantastic to drive. I'm always worried about it with
my piece of shit car, but I'm coming back. Southbound
sixty five is how you get back to Indianapolis.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
And I'm almost home.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
I can see the ramp, I can smell the ramp,
I can smell the fresh pavement, and we hit this
rolling closure just about a mile and a half from
my home. Think about this for three miles through Chicago
traffic and I'm almost toming now interesting is completely closed
one thirty in the morning, and my god.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I'm surrounded by drunks. Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Yes, it was just to the right of me, to
the left of me, in front and back. I had
the motorcycle Revenue is engine and he was listening to
Bob Singer, you know, all the way through the city.
And then I had the R and B music coming
in through the other window, and behind me, everybody was
having a good time but me and I'm just sitting
there and it's the first time I've really even thought
(02:55):
about drinking all summer long, was in this stopped traffic
because I'm looking around everybody smiling, have a good time,
and I'm losing my fucking mind because I'm so close
to home. And I make the text and we're texting
back and forth with a person in my recovery, and
you know, it's just go home, You're gonna be fine.
And the closure only lasted thirty minutes. But my god,
(03:18):
being around all those drunks and such in drinking and
driving is very bad thing to do. But a lot
of people were doing it at this moment, and I
wanted to be one of the people drinking and driving
at the moment. It's the beauty of recovery reaching out
to somebody and them reaching out to you and saying, yeah,
if you keep doing.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
This, you're going to be fine. And that's what we're
talking about today.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
My name is Matt Bear, co host of the Supporting
Sobriety Podcast.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
For you the caregiver, I found hope in the midst
of an overwhelming situation.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Alcoholism can affect it any family. Are you in an
overwhelming situation? Because if someone else is drinking, alan On
and Alatine can help. Call eight sixty six two zero
zero zero zero three three or visit alanon dot org slash.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
This is the Supporting Sobriety Podcast.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Welcome to the Supporting Sobriety Podcast at Sobriety, Underscore pod
on x and Instagram. Please like, subscribe, and rate on Apple,
Spotify or wherever you're getting your podcast right now, and
please keep those five star ratings coming. We really need
them so our podcast shows up. More on your timeline.
(04:32):
Today's episode, Your addict is calling, What do you say?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Number one?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Your addict is preventing relapse. Number two, your addict has relapsed.
Number three, roles reversed. Now you're calling your addict. Now
let's dig.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
In Supporting Sobriety podcast, and today we're talking about you know,
we want to arm the caregiver with the best possible
information from our experiences on this podcast. It's what we do,
it's what we like to do. When today we're talking
about if you have an addict or alcoholic calling you
and being like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna drink or
I'm gonna use, or calling or being like, oh goodness,
(05:08):
that's me and you're a mass, you're a mass, Matt,
you're drunk again. Thank god, that hasn't been the case
for over four years. But and then saying maybe you
want to call and check on your addict or alcoholics.
So there are three points here we want to talk
about and investigate a little bit in the first one
being your addict is preventing relapse.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
So Ryan say, I'm calling.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
You right now as somebody as I know, I've had
a hell of a day, hell of a week, hel
of a month, maybe a bad year.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So hey, Ryan, how you doing? Man? Hey, what's up now?
Not much.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
It's been a shitty week. Boss is mad at me.
Wife left me. I'm not married.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
A wife left me and everything just going to shit.
Are you drunk? No? No, I haven't even thought about
using No.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
You know what, Let's start right there, man, let's start
right there. So what what actually are what went right
for you? What are you grateful for? Man, I'm not
really grateful for anything right now. I mean, yeah, it's
everything sucks right now. I'm just you know, yeah, food
on my table, a roof over my head.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
But what is that? I mean, I want to make
more money to travel, right And that's that's what I'm
mad about. And I'm not happy about my position in life.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
So listen, you can't get there all at once, man.
You know, it's a journey. And people that are the
most successful people in the world didn't start at the top.
They work their way, So why are you exempt. You
need to work your way at the top.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Man.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Listen, Let's let's unpack this a little bit. What's really
going on? What are you feeling, what's the what's at
the center of this for you? Well, I keep hearing
you and other people say this over and over again,
Like you know, I get into sobriety, and I just
expected so much more by now.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I mean, I why am I?
Speaker 4 (06:46):
I mean I'm looking at across as somebody that I
think that I'm mortalented and they make more money than me,
and I don't think that's fair. I mean, it's it's bullshit.
I mean, where's where are my rewards for recovery? Because
I'm not seeing them? So let me get straight. So
you didn't wake up with a hangover, You didn't wake
up next to somebody that you don't even know who
the hell they are. You still have all the money
(07:07):
in your bank account that you went to sleep with,
and you didn't damage your car and a hit and
run last night and the police aren't looking for you right?
Well no, but I mean, yeah, that's true, isn't Isn't
that a great change from the way we used to be?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
But that's always what you're telling me. Man.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
I mean, I want the dollars And yeah, nobody is
backed into my car like they did that time on
mass Ave and I took off running because I was
wicked drunk. Maybe I should be grateful for that, but
I'm not. I want to see something now. I want
to see something tangible and I'm just tired of them. Man,
I just feel angry. Here's the payoff, man, you are
(07:44):
learning and growing through this process. This process is gonna
bring some pain, it's gonna bring some feelings, but you're
not drinking over those feelings like you used to. Let's
start off right there.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
The baseline for this conversation is that you don't have
to drink or use because of the way you feel.
So you're growing despite what your disease is telling you.
You have a disease that is talking to you and
making you tell yourself you don't even have a disease.
That's how insidious and settle this stuff is. So you're
(08:17):
doing a lot better than your feeling. And I think
what you're going through right now, Matt, is you're matching
your insides with people's outsides. And when we do that,
we set ourselves up for failure. You can never live
up to your own expectations because your own expectations are unrealistic.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
As fuck.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
You don't.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
You can never compare yourself to yourself because you've set
such lofty goals that even when you achieve the dreams
and hopes that you're talking about, you still won't be satisfied.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Ooh, I guess, I guess I kind of see what
you're saying there. But I just and I'm not saying
I've thought about drinking, because no way, I never do that,
But I kind of get this feeling that people thought
I was a lot more fun when I was drinking.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Everything's on the table, everything's on the table. You aren't.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
You aren't drunk proof. You can still go back for
that pain, your misery can be refunded. But thank god
you're in a position to talk about this. And that's
exactly what we do. We unpack this with another person
who cares and loves us and can see us coming,
even when we can't see ourself coming.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
You know, now that you mentioned it, I did. I
was able to do something to my car last week
and I actually had the money to pay for it.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
And I did get up the other morning.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
And I was driving into the city and it was
like covered in fog and it was really beautiful, and
I would.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Have noticed that when I'm drunking.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I tell you what, I'll stay sober today, just today, yeah,
and then we'll see how tomorrow will.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And before you get off the phone with me, why
don't you give me three things that you are agreed for?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Suh? Okay. One, I was able to pay for my
car and I have a DRU.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
I have a ble car. There you go because of that. Two,
despite my best efforts, I'm still employed. M Yeah, that's
something that I started in recovery that I forget.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Are you getting paycheck now? Yes? Yes, yes, look at that.
Stop it make me feel better. They're not going to
bounce your paycheck. Okay.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
And the third one, I know I could wake up
tomorrow without my liver protruding out of my stomach, which
I had a problem with, which is something else you know,
with four years of recovery that I forget all the time.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, how about this? Do you have cirrhosis of the liver?
Speaker 3 (10:35):
No? Been diagnosed with?
Speaker 6 (10:37):
No?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
No, Yes, I have all this to be grateful for you.
Do you have a Do you have a court date
with the d U I next, Yes, No, my god,
it's fine. Things. We'll get into the we'll get into
the sautiful of recovery works, get into the solution one day.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
This is okay now, Ryan, as I don't want to
say professional because we don't get paid for any of
our recovery work. But obviously Ryan really knows what he's
talking about when it comes to coaching somebody out of
these phone calls that we make, when we call and
we say, woe is me, I'm thinking about using, and
you know, I, purposely there in that role play said.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
That, oh no, I haven't thought about drinking.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
And you know that's bullshit, caregiver, I mean, that's absolute
bullshit when I say I'm thinking about drinking.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
No, I'm making that call with drinking in my mind.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
So I want to also make one thing clear within
that role play, like it's okay to admit if you're
an addict, or if you're a caregiver, it's okay for
you to listen to your loved one tell you that
they want to use, because that's a natural that's a
natural thing. A lot of people think that recovery will
(11:48):
make you exempt from not wanting to use.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I walked into a lounge the other night in Indianapolis
where we taped the show, and instantly I thought about
cocaine because I knew ocaine was in that bar, but
I didn't act on it. And that's the difference between
us now and the role play. Matt was thinking about
maybe taking a drink. He had been triggered or his
emotions were overwhelming him. The totality of this, yeah, but
(12:14):
he didn't do it. What it changed from the way
that we used to be Number two?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Your addict or alcoholic has relapsed, like like we had
an old rotary phone?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
All right, Matt, is that you? Yeah? Oh? Man?
Speaker 4 (12:34):
I used to just uh, I just friend requested this
one one. Are you where are you at? Man bad?
I have an apartment right now? And yeah, I just uh, yeah, dude.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
This with this chick.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
She's really into me, I think because I just sent
her a friend request and she has an answer back.
But I know she's going to I just uh, I
just had an.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Hour conversation with my dad. I told him what business
was man? Yeah doing? Dude? Slow down? How you doing? Dude?
You are you are drunk? Yeah? What dude?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Fuck you man? And you're drunk drunk? I'm not drunk.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
You're calling me at two in the morning. You're waking. Yes,
it's one o'clock Central time. I have to be in
the newsroom in two hours. What are you doing to me?
Manuck traffic? Fucking traffic You're not going anywhere.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
You're not going anywhere coming over with three people and
we're going to do an intervention.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
We'll not really, man, I'm not drunking, dude, you can't even.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
So, Matt has gone past the point of where we
suggest that you go to and he is now he's
now used, he's out of the solution, and he's clearly
into a problem. And here's the first here's the first
thing I would say. I would say, Matt, you need
to rein it, back in and sleep this off, because
(13:57):
there's nothing as the caregiver that you can possibly do
once your addict has relapsed. You you are powerless, man.
You want to talk about the first step and living
that first step, the unmanageability and the powerlessness that there's
a tidal wave of powerlessness that is coming at you
and you're just you're you can't do anything once your
(14:19):
addict has relapsed. Now here's what you can do. You
can hang up the phone, you can pray, you could
call somebody that you know that loves you well and
knows you well, and you can build a plan around
the solution. Because Matt, this is the problem. We have
gone past the point in overturn once you use, you
(14:42):
were in the grips of active addiction.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
And this is why we said do the work and recovery,
and that recovery is hard work. And we've talked about
this ad nauseum the last few episodes and it needs
to be repeated. You get under recovery, you get anything
you're good at. Think about how good you are. I mean,
we work for a local radio station WIBC in Indianapolists.
Think about where you started with your news here as
(15:05):
compared to where you are now. Right, Well, you got better.
The same thing with me as I do the traffic
in my other radio. Anything that you want to be
good at, especially recovery, you have to work at. And
if I'm making that call already drunk, that's on me.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I think one thing that the caregiver. You know, this
can get really personal. I don't think we talk about
this enough on our podcast. This can get really personal
for the caregiver because you caregiver have invested so much,
You've poured so much energy, time and resources into your
loved one, not to use and suddenly they're calling you,
and Matt's calling me, and what the fuck he's using?
(15:46):
Didn't anything. I say, resonate with him. Why is he
doing this to me? Why is he doing this to
our family? Why is he being so selfish? And this
is not about you, caregiver. This is about the disease
of addiction manifesting in all the spiritual evilness that it does.
And now your loved one has not taken his or
(16:08):
her responsibility to stay clean and sober, and they have
made the conscious decision to use. They have not done
anything to you, They have not done anything to your family.
They have actually done that to ourselves. There's a point
in the literature, the NA literature. And I know I'm
breaking all kinds of traditions when I say this, but
it needs.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
To be said.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
We do lots of people harm, great harm, it says,
But most of all, we harm ourselves because when we use,
that's who we're really harming, is us, Matt. We're not
harming the caregiver. We're hurting their feelings, maybe their egos
bruised because they think they have the juice to keep
us clean. But no, man, we're hurting ourselves because when
we use, we're the ones who are going to die
(16:51):
a slow spiritual death, if not a physical one.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
I'm so glad you brought that up because for the
first time in our lives and our you know, for
the addict and alcoholic can use, for the first time
in our lives, were assigned culpability. For the first time
in our lives. It's like we are finally personally responsible
for ourselves. And we talk about this because I don't
(17:15):
think I'm false or erroneous in any case when I
say that the caregivers never on the hook for our recovery,
never never ever relapse, going into relapse coming out of it.
We have to make the decision. We have to say
those magic words, I'm ready, and then we have to
follow up by doing the hard work. And with that,
with knowing that we are the ones responsible, it's absolving
(17:38):
all of our loved ones from any kind of responsibility whatsoever,
because it is our responsibility. We have to take care
of ourselves, something that I avoided doing for twenty five
years of use.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I was in like a meeting after the meeting situation
a couple of weeks ago, ME and a few people
went out to eat and this guy was talking about
how personal he took it when his sponsor went out
to use and he's like all these eye statements. He's like,
but I put so much time, I put so much effort,
I wasted so much time on phone calls. And it's
(18:10):
not That's exactly the type of attitude that we need
to check at the door, because when we have these
expectations of people that have been using for so long,
I mean most addicts on the average have been using
for fifteen to twenty years once they decide to get
their shit together, So once they get in recovery, they
already have a track record of decades and decades of using,
(18:33):
masking their feelings by using and drinking. And we think
that we have the juice to keep them clean after
they have exhibited this behavior over and over and over again.
Think about anything that you've done for a long time
that's now habit, and how hard that habit is to break.
Who are we to tell an addict that we have
the power to keep them clean and sober if they're
(18:55):
not doing the work.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
There's some mego there. You know, we're taking recovery to
surrender our ego. Ego doesn't mean that we think we're
hot shit. Ego means that we think we're the center
of the world and that's my ego in that case. Yeah,
I thought I was the center of the world and
everything I touched turned the shit.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
That's what my ego tells me and us. Using and
drinking again is not an indictment on your love and support,
like we need your love and support. But it's only
one component of recovery. The other components look like sponsorship
and meetings in prayer and meditation and reading the literature.
When nobody's watching, it's not what we're doing that when
(19:35):
people are watching that counts. It's what we are doing
when people aren't watching. That's the character. That's when recovery
is best exhibited, Matt. When nobody's looking, when the world
has turned its side to us and they're doing what
we're What are we doing behind closed doors to strengthen
our recovery? That's what really matters. Number three roles reversed.
(19:56):
Now you're calling the addict, Wow, what's.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Going on here?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Well, you know, I picked up the phone. I'm just
checking in on you. I'm just checking in. I want
to see how you're doing. I haven't heard from you
in a couple of days. In fact, now it's been
it's been about a week where you've been what are
you doing? And your attict calls and they're not as
happy as you think they should be. You're not as
they're not as cheery. So hear you like, like, what
(20:22):
is going on? Are you using again? Like that's what
my mother used to tell me? Your voice sounds different? Well, yeah,
you just woke me up, you know, I just I've
woken up, Like what do you want?
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Mom?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
You're a little sharp with me. Weren't you happier to
hear from me?
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Like?
Speaker 2 (20:39):
These conversations can go sideways real quick, Matt, and they
could get ugly if we're not careful about our tone,
if we're not careful about the words we're using, because
words matter.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Well, what it comes down to is what we just said, Hey,
the caregiver cannot control our using. The caregiver can love
us and support us, and that'll help us not use,
but at all, ultimately, if the decision is on us.
I mean, I've been working with somebody and full disclosure,
there were some times that I've been talking to him
and I've thought to myself, this guy sounds like he
(21:12):
might have been into it again, you know.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
So you were taking his inventory. I was damn straight.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
I was taking his inventory when the fact of the
matter is it shouldn't matter whether he's using or not,
because there's nothing I can do with it except for love.
You know, That's my only weapon is through empathy and
my own experience and how I would feel. I have
to think in those conversations, try to remember how exactly
(21:37):
my emotions were when I was drinking talking to somebody
and try to sell them the fact that I wasn't drinking.
And at the end of the day, it just doesn't
matter if I got it sold or not, because it
was up to me. It was up to me whether
or not I was going to live a recovery life
or a drunken life.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, you know it's funny, my sponsor, I had a
really rough Monday. I left work. I wanted to burn
it all down. I wanted to pull the grenade pin
out and launched the grenade, and I wanted to watch
it no explode. And then I wanted to feel sorry
for myself and blame AB and C for my motivations
(22:15):
and my actions and stuff like that. So I'm texting
my sponsor and I put my phone on a mode
that disables my notifications, and he's like, why'd you disable
your notifications? Why are you not receiving phone calls? Why
you not receiving text messages? What's going on with you?
And I tend to forget that. My sponsor and I
(22:38):
are getting close and we're doing the work together, and
the closer we get, the more our feelings are coming
into play here, Like I care about him, he cares
about me, and he knows me well, and anything out
of the normal is a red flag. Right, So when
we call people on a daily basis or a regular
basis and build the relationships with them and they relapse
(23:01):
either spiritually, because you could relapse spiritually before you relapse physically.
Oftentimes that's what you do. Like, are we get pissed off?
Because we put a lot into these people? Just like
you're talking about with this guy, You're putting a lot
of time and energy into him. You're investing your time,
which is precious, and now he's not reacting the way
(23:22):
you want him to react. So you feel certain kind
of way.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
Yeah, it's kind of an indictment of my own ego,
you know, it's an indictment of meybe, like you said
a little bit spiritually sick here and forgetting that I
did surrender. And every day I have to you and
talk about making violating traditions of a twelve step recovery,
that I didn't remember, that my life becomes unmanageable when
I'm drinking, and that I have to make that surrender
(23:47):
to win. You know, I lose to win saying my
way doesn't work, that I am powerless over alcohol unless
I have the gout of my understanding.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
And I'm throwing about five.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Steps together all once here, and I apologize for that,
but that's exactly what it is, is that.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Surrendered to win.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
And I'm not doing that when I'm talking to this gentleman,
because I was there and I lived that life. And
as a caregiver, we have to constantly understand because we
are caregivers, right, I know, and you pointed that out.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
I believe it was episode fifty three or fifty.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Four how you were talking about being a caregiver now,
and yes, we are caregivers. As we proceed through recovery,
we stay sober and in recovery by giving it away.
That's the way we do it. And the bottom line is,
again it's our decision.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I didn't always agree with my mom and dad the
way they handled me in active addiction, But I now
see because there are a lot of people. There are
three or four people I could think specifically right now
that if they used I would want to reach through
the phone and strangle them because I've put a lot
of time and energy into them. And I know caregiver,
(24:56):
when you are loving on somebody, and especially if you
distance yourself and they've come back into your life under
the guise of I will recover, and you've set this
like boundary that as long as you recover, you're welcomed
in our home. And they suddenly like relapse, like how
pissed off and hurt? How hurts you must be? I
(25:16):
get it. It is, oh man, I mean somebody made
it's a painful promise. Yeah, it's a huge painful nobody's
ever made an amends to me. But I can only
imagine how to react if somebody made an amends to
me and said, hey, here's how.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
I'm going to do this from here out, and then
they don't do it. I mean I would be like, hey,
what am I Chockoliver recapping the list. Number one, your
addict is preventing relapse. Number two, Your addict has relapsed.
Number three, roles reversed. Now you're calling your addicts.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Yeah, when we come back, we're going to not roleplay.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
We're actually going to be ourselves and give you some
final thoughts on this. I tell you how to hook
up with the Supporting Sobriety community on the Supporting Sobriety Podcast.
I had changed the locks, didn't even know where she
was living, and one night she calls to say she's
getting treatment.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Can I drive?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
I almost hung up, but then I thought, that's my kid.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
I chose to put away the hurt and the fear
and just see my girl.
Speaker 6 (26:15):
Addiction is a disease. Standing by a loved one as
they fight. It will test your faith, patience, and sanity.
But it's possible when you see the person, not just
their disease. Learn more at seebyond addiction dot org.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
This is the Supporting Sobriety Podcast.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Welcome back to the Supporting Sobriety Podcast, where we talked
about your addict is calling?
Speaker 3 (26:43):
What do you say?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
So?
Speaker 2 (26:45):
I want to get real vulnerable with the audience real quick,
because this is the last podcast we're going to tape
before we go to my father's memorial in Potomac, Maryland
here in the middle of October, and I don't know
how I'm gonna feel. This is the first time that
I'm going to get complete closure. This is this is
(27:05):
an opportunity for me to get closure. Yes, but now
I'm going to be face to face in front of
my half sisters and half brother and the emotions are
going to be real. But here's what I have to
say about this. I already have a plan. I have
a recovery plan. I have a spiritual plan. And the
way I do this is that I use my resources
(27:26):
that I've learned in recovery. And I think that's what
today's episode is really all about. Right, It's like reaching
back into our bag of tools and thinking about all
the things that we did to get us to a
point where we felt a little freedom, a little gratitude.
How Matt and I talked about in the first point
(27:46):
about going back and forth, what are you grateful for?
What can I do to be in the solution? Because, right,
we spend so much time in the problem. The problem
is the drugs, The problem is the alcohol. What is
the solution? Talking about how not to use talking about
how we feel. And that's exactly what I plan to do.
I mean, this memorial, Matt, is gonna be It's gonna
(28:08):
be the closure. Like I've I watched my dad die
from eight hundred miles away. It's not the same thing
as being there by his side. It's not the same
thing as being in the same room when he's taking
his final breath. But this to me, in the middle
of October, in front of friends and family and listening
to memories of my dad, It's gonna be painful, but
I'm not gonna use no matter what, and we just
(28:30):
have to maintain the solution Matt is to is to
talk about how we feel like because if I unpack
how I feel before I actually feel it, chances are
it won't be as bad as what I expect it
to be, because I always expect the worst.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
At the foundation of what you just said, are you
doing this huge life experience? I can't think of anything
from my perception that that's been bigger for you than
this moment memorial as long as I've known you. And
that's just the way I say it. I hope and
pray and I will pray on this that people lean
(29:09):
on you that your family leans on you, because I
can't think of a better person for them to lean on,
especially with your strength.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Through your recovery.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
And regardless if that happens or not, this is I
just think it's going to be a very cathartic and
wonderful experience for you, with a lot of real pain
and emotion and hurt and you know, wondering and maybe
a little regret in there too, because we're human and
we feel all that, sure, But within all that so
(29:43):
fucking beautiful. Within all that, there's a gift of recovery
and that work, in that growth that you get from
an experience coming up like that. So thank you for
telling me. You just help me stay sober today.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
By telling.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
That will help me stay sober today, and I hope
more importantly it does a lot for you, caregiver. You
can find the supporting Sobriety podcast on any major podcast provider.
I use Spotify, Apple, whichever one comes up. What do
you say, smash that like rating?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Smash smash five star rating and what that does is
the more five star ratings we have, it just allows
the supporting sobriety podcasts to populate more on your podcast timeline,
and of course more recovery is always a great thing, right, yeah,
it is.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
And also you can find our supporting sobriety community Instagram.
We like to post pictures of our recovery on Instagram
just to show everybody that it can happen for you too.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
And and we'll be posting pictures of my father's memorial, okay,
just to let you guys know.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Yeah, follow us on x and Instagram.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Also at Sobriety Underscore pod. If you need a meeting,
alan On is a terrific resource. I realized that my
home group on Thursday, there's an allen On meeting right
across the way that a lot of people show up to.
So al Hyphenenon dot org aaaa dot Intergroup, dot org
na dot org. The suicide prevention line Now in most
(31:11):
big cities you could just dial nine eight eight. It
routes you right to the twenty four to seven a
seven day week call center. If you're not in one
of those big cities one eight hundred two seven three
eight two five five. And remember, when there's breath, there's hope.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Thank you for listening to the Supporting Sobriety Podcast
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