October 21, 2025 • 34 mins
Marijuana is not exactly top of mind when we think of addiction. You might gently roll your eyes when hearing someone say, “I’m addicted to marijuana…” I mean, really? How can you be addicted to the ganja? You can’t overdose on it. It makes everyone giggle. It’s a natural pain killer. How, how in the world is marijuana addictive or dangerous? Some people even smoke it as a sacrament. Praise the green goddess and pass the sticky icky!
About that. Addiction is addiction, and you can absolutely, unequivocally become addicted to cannabis. Today’s bud is incredibly potent compared to the stuff your parents or grandparents smoked back in the 70s, and it can be laced with fentanyl, a one-shot killer that can overdose the user with a penny sized amount. Then there are synthetics, or man-made products with THC. They’ve turned the weed world on its head. Who knows what you’re smoking?
We’re the addicts, you’re the caregiver. We don’t think marijuana is bad by itself, just bad in the hands of addicts. We discuss in Ep. 56, so give it a listen if you’re cannabis curious. While you’re at it, find us on X and Instagram: @sobriety_pod. Supporting Sobriety is also available on major podcast platforms like Spotify and Apple. Please like, subscribe, and rate!
Resources:
Al-Anon: Al-Anon.org
Meetings: aa.org/find-aa
NA Meetings: na.org/meetingsearch/virtual-meeting-search/
Suicide Prevention Hotline: (800) 273-8255
- National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) - Resources for Families
- Families Against Narcotics (FAN) - Support for Families
- SAMHSA’s National Helpline (1-800-662-HELP)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the Supporting Sobriety podcast, dedicated to the unsung
heroes behind those struggling with addiction. They're friends and family
like you who'll share insights, stories and resources to help
you support your loved ones and care for yourself on
the recovery journey.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Supporting Sobriety Podcast at Sobridy, Underscore pod, on x or Twitter.
I have no problems with marijuana. I mean, personally, I
have a problem with that. I can't do it because
I'm an addict. I'm a recovering addict and alcoholic. That's
my problem with marijuana. As far as marijuana being legal,
I have no problems with that. In fact, a little secret,
I think it should be legal for people who are
(00:44):
not recovering alcoholics and atics. And I know there are
probably a thousand recovery programs out there that involve THHD.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
If that's your thing, more power to you.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
If you can keep THC for being a gateway drug,
more power to you. But marijuana is so much stronger
to day. Can you get addicted to marijuana? How much
stronger is it? What are the dangers in a fednal
world with marijuana? And we're going to talk about all
this with doctor Michael Lrossa, who's from Harbor Light, a
(01:13):
recovery center here at idiot app was a recovery center
with a heart of gold, a huge heart.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
And it's not Hey, it's not a country club.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
You're not going to be playing frisbee golf at Harbor Light,
but what you are going to get is a huge
guid shot and a lot of love. And by the way,
we are not affiliated in a business manner, Harbor Light
and supporting so Brady podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
We just really like each other. We help each other out.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
You know, recovery works, we keep it by giving it
away and I kind of feel like that's with this
podcast in harbor Light Center.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
It's really cool.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Ryan Hedrick, the co host of this podcast, He's taking
care of a personal matter.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Today, which is why I'm speaking with you.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Now by myself and hopefully and we've talked a little
bit like Ryan and I do, and for the next
episode when he comes back, I believe he wants to
speak about this personal matter and from what I know
about it, and he's going to tell the story. But
from what I know about it, this is going to
be the biggest god shot of your week. Maybe your month,
because there's going to be the bad, there's going to
(02:11):
be the good. There's going to be the bad, and
then we're going to reach the sun and it's going
to be this beautiful god shot at the end, and
you're going to be like, You're going to be like.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Man, I'm glad I sat through that. Man, I'm glad
I listened to Ryan Hendrick today.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
It's it's I'm really excited to do it. That's why
I'm talking about it.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Recovery. You get all these things excited about you. Your
just like whoa, Yeah, Recovery's awesome.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Man.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Four years and three months in change is what I'm
on and I think Ryan's around there too. We just
love doing this podcast today. The point is to speak
about marijuana and kind of have a where are we
at with this right now?
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Again? Can you get addicted? How strong is it? Where
is it?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
What's in it? Really good questions that we'll speak with
doctor LaRosa about. It is stronger what our parents smoke.
The weed we have today is so much stronger than
what our parents smoked. According to Bath University, this big
time research university over in England, what Mam and dad
smoked was fourteen percent weaker than what we have today.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Hash the hashish.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Twenty five percent more potent today than what it was
fifty years ago.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
That's a hell of a number.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
The findings come from expert announced us of more than
eighty thousand weed samples. So the control group is there. Yeah,
and it's a study over last fifty years, starting in
nineteen seventy.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
So basically the hash the grass ah so much stronger
today than what we are smoking.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Hey, can we get addicted to marijuana? I mean, I've
been in recovery meetings in you know, as somebody might
say I'm addicted to marijuana, and we kind of give
him a sign kind of well, that's not heroin, that's
not the one shot killed like Feederoh, you can't even
know de.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
For marijuana at least, that's the common thinking. What else
are you addicted to? Huh, God, it's got to be
something else.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
We're going to talk about that with doctor larrosakev it
up here, whether or not you can become addicted to marijuana,
and whether or not, and don't throw anything at me,
whether or not you can overdose on marijuana. I want
to ask the question. I know the answer. The comed
answer is no, No, you can't, Oh dummy, you can't
overdose on marijuana. Everybody knows that it's a lot stronger
(04:25):
than what it used to be. And what if it
has fetanyl? Remember fentanyl dose size of the penny can
kill you. You can die on heroin first time you
use heroin. So if you're getting fentanyl, maybe an opioid
into your weed, he could o d Maybe it's strong
enough to make you of D. I don't know the answers,
(04:46):
which is why we're going to speak with an expert.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
In a couple of minutes.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Harvard Hell says today's cannabis products can contain levels of THC.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
You know, that's the buckaboo and weed. You know, the
thing to make.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Sure I as high as ninety percent, that's that's huge.
It was two to three percent in nineteen seventy. So
ninety percent THAC levels today compared to two to three
percent in the nineteen seventies.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
That's from Harvard Health. I asked ai.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Hey, it doesn't ever have to cite his sources, but hey,
I says that nineteen seventies average THAC content one to
three percent today is seventeen to thirty percent. So it's
not saying ninety percent like Harvard, but that.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Just is.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
THC content marijuana and cannabis is a lot higher today
than what it was with her parents. Plus we have
the risk of fentanol. So we have a lot to
speak with doctor l Rosa about here in a minute
or two. I wasn't ever, I wasn't a big wing guy.
I was an opiate guy. Of course, I was an
alcoholic alcoholic. My wife that was always there, alcohol would
(05:53):
never leave. But it was opioids that they were. My
muse says, they're my harem.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Love the opioids.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
You could put a nuclear bomb dex and me set
the timer and I'd start laughing if I was on
oxacon and that.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Sounds like a good time.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Well, you know, wait until you're a week later and
you keep having to build up that tolerance and then
you can't get any and it feels like alligators are
eating your legs. Yeah, they included in the withdrawal symptoms.
They absolutely worse. But I was never a big weed guy.
I always made an ass in myself when I was
doing weed. Now, there was a period in my late
teens early twenties where I was smoking grass all the time.
(06:28):
But that was just masking the fact that I felt
like a miserable fuck all the time. Yeah, and but
it never made me feel good about me.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
I could not talk.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I'm bad at talking to women to begin with, especially
once I'm attracted to. But I tell you what, I
would smoke grass and I wouldn't be like that woo, No,
I would like go hide in a quarter man. It
was we'd maybe so paranoid, took all those things, all
those insecurities inside of me and just doubled down.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
That's not the case with a lot of people. A
lot of people can use.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Marijuana without becoming addicted. They can use marijuana without any
social stigma. They can be a sacrament. We have a
church here in Indianapol, what it's called the First Church
of Cannabis and Marijuana is the sacrament. Now, I think
it was started for political reasons more than anything, but it's.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
There and it's their sacrament.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
People can use marijuana without becoming addicted. And more power
to you, man. I hope the government treats you rightan
I hope you get your medicinal use. There's also speaking
of medicinal uses, there's also an argument out there that
legalizing marijuana would cut back the use of opioids, which I.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Am really in favor for.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
If you give somebody marijuana and opioids, I hope they
choose marijuana. Yeah, gungs up your lungs. It does things.
But man, oh man, my experience with both, I would
rather come off marijuana and opioids any day of the week,
twice on Sunday. Those opioids hook you. They can hook
you legally and you're off to the races.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
There. This suck, especially with the withdrawal symptoms.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
All right, let's take a second here again. Ryan's coming
back for the next episode.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
We can't wait.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
We really miss him. Spiritual lion, right. Hedrick our co
host of the Supporting Sobridy podcast, And when we come back,
you and I are going to talk to doctor l
Rosa about marijuana, it's strength, addiction, and where we are
at today.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
That's next on the Supporting Sobridy Podcast. I found hope
in the midst of an overwhelming situation.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Alcoholism can affect any family. Are you in an overwhelming situation?
Because if someone else is drinking, alan On and Altein
can help call eight sixty six two zero zero zero
zero three three or visit allanon dot org slash hope.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
This is the Supporting Sobriety podcast.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Supporting Sobriety podcast at Sobriety Underscore pod on x and Instagram.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
You can find us there.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Speaking about a few minutes ago, we wanted to talk
to our friend friend of Supporting Sobriety, doctor Michael LaRosa
of Harbor Light Recovery Center in Indianapolis, Indiana, the home
of Supporting Sobriety. We want to talk about marijuana, and
I do have experience in use, being recovered down coaholic
and the recovering addict. I did do a fair share
(09:23):
of marijuana when I was in my late teens and
early twenties.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
It was never really my thing, but I.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Know a cannabis continues to become more and more popular
in the United States today. So we welcome back doctor
LaRosa to the Supporting Sobriety Podcast.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Doctor LaRosa, great to have you.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Remind us again what exactly are your responsibilities at Harbor Light.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Yeah, I'm the medical Detalks manager over there, and we
take care of just about everything, you know, alcohol, cocaine,
myth and satamin olucima, jens anything really that people can
get in trouble with. We try to detox them, and
we have different regimens and different timeframes of how we
detox them over there. And then once we're done with
(10:07):
the acute stuff, we get him into residential treatment, we
get him into transitional housing and things like that. That's
what I do every day over there.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Well, first questions first, because it's something that I hear
that you can't become addicted to marijuana and want to
ask you the professional, can you become addicted to marijuana?
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yes, absolutely, you can, Matt. Absolutely. I'd say probably one
out of ten people can become addicted just after using
initiating the drug and they'll develop a cannabis use disorder,
you know, one out of six teenagers and get addicted.
And probably daily users, you know, twenty five thirty percent
(10:45):
of those folks can become addicted. So it does get
an addicted potential to it.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yes, And I spoke about this a little bit ago,
doctor l Ross. According to statistics CDC included how easy
it is to become addicted to marijuana, and if we
start using in our adolescent years, it increases the chance
that adults we will become addicted to marijuana.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Do you agree with that thesis?
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Absolutely? And we see that with other substances across the
board too. The earlier that you drink, the more difficulty
you're going to have getting rid of that alcohol. The
same way with the opiates as well. But yes, absolutely,
twelve to eighteen, I would say, what was there reading
earlier that half of the admissions to treatment centers for
(11:32):
young people twelve to eighteen is for marijuana use.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And I remember in my recovery experiences in Rehabilitaian centers
so many I want to say kids. I mean, I'm
in my mid forties now, but as so many young
adults and teenagers in these recovery centers, and you know,
they're addicted to the marijuana, they're addicted, yes, to the
opians and the heroin, and they're getting involved in such
an early age. And I get two with my drinking,
(11:57):
in my drug use, I started at an early age.
You know, it's a blessing to be in recovery. I
love being recovering alcoholic. But here we are, you know,
here we are. I started early and I quit late.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Yep, you are a classic example, Matt, of what we're
struggling with. Really, in general.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
The philosophy, you know, what we're smoking with marijuana isn't
the same as what our parents were smoking back in
the civities. Do you believe that marijuana is stronger today
than what it used to be?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Yeah, absolutely, it's it's probably three times stronger than it
used to be.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Can you overdose on it?
Speaker 4 (12:31):
There has not been a documented death to marijuana, both
the light stuff and the heavy, guerrilla strength stuff that
we can document. That said, is the marijuana supply clean?
The answer is no. And is the marijuana supply lace
with all kinds of stuff that you can overdose from
Sentinel and K two and all this kind of jazz.
(12:55):
Absolutely it is. So that's where the marijua want a
lobby points to, Look, we haven't had an overdose death
from marijuana ever documented, And then they say, well, you
know what, it's the lowest guy on the totem pole
regarding cocaine and methamphetamine and alcohol and tobacco. It's the
lowest one on the totem pole. So it's got to
(13:15):
be safe. That's the perception, and that is a deadly, deadly,
deadly trap as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
So the lobby essentially would say, there's nobody overdosing on marijuana.
But they're talking about the stuff that comes directly from
the ground and that's all there is in it. They
might be leaving on the fact that marijuana could be
laced with fentanyl or an opioid.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Is that correct?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Yeah, that is absolutely correct. And and and that's the
frustration that we get into trying to trying to treat this,
because you know, the marijuana lobby is a voracious group
of souls. They they they will they will go to
the mat and they will present every bit of research
that's not necessarily peered reviewed right in front of you.
(13:58):
And now basically they see it's okay, it's just a dangerous,
dangerous toy, guys, a very dangerous toy, particularly with what's
in it now, very dangerous.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Well in the mists surround it. That you can't overdose
on it. I mean that as an addict. That would
stick in my head and I would use that as
a catalyst to go using marijuana.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
I'd say, hey, I can't no different it. You know
what's the problem, and.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
You know the positives people discuss, you know, with the
medicinal purposes, and you know, you hear a lot more
good about marijuana these days than bad. And it's not
like I want to demonize the thing, but I'm sorry.
Addiction is addiction, and if you become addicted to it,
it can become lethal.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Is that a hypothesis? Is that safe?
Speaker 4 (14:39):
That is very safe?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Talking with doctor Michael LaRosa of Harbor Light Recovery Center
at Idiot Apples Home is supporting sobriety and we want
to move our You said something a little bit earlier,
you talked about the gorilla, the big bad gorilla of marijuana.
Were you referencing possibly synthetic marijuana when you said that
the stuff that people make, well.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Even if you just use the stuff that they're always
cultivating new stronger strengths of marijuana. I'm talking about the
stuff that is now compared to what in the nineteen seventies.
But when it comes to synthetic, oh my goodness, how
many hundreds of times more potent is it than even
the really hard regular stuff that people are using now?
(15:23):
Much much more potent now, that is a totally different animal.
And guess what there are overdoses with that.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Oh okay, So if it comes from the ground, that's
the argument. If it's just pure you k and od.
But if man is making it, then we have risk
at becoming overdosed.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
And let me roll play here.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Say I'm buying marijuana, I'm not going to be asking
whether or not as straight from the ground or if
it's man made.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Am I I just want the drug?
Speaker 4 (15:48):
No, that's correct.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
It's safe to say that with the rage of synthetic marijuana.
They're synthetic types of marijuana legal in Indiana, even though
marijuana is not legal in Indiana, still being sold by
man made and being able to undercut the law in
some ways. If you can quantify, and I don't know
if you can't, how much more dangerous is synthetic a
man made marijuana over what's grown in the ground.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
You know, Man, I've read anywhere from four hundred and
eight percent stronger. That's what I've read. Now again is
that I've not been able to really really feel that
apart and corroborate that, but that's what I've read.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I mean, that's an amazing number. Four hundred to eight stronger, correct.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I Mean that just blows my mind, especially when I
think about what my parents might have smoked in the
seventies compared to tell, I mean, that would just just amazing.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
It's it's nothing to mess with. It really is nothing
to mess with.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Say you have a recovering alcoholic, an attic like myself,
and I'm talking about my alcohol use, my opioid use,
and whatever else might be in there, say ecstasy, cocaine,
everything else is marijuana maybe a commonality coming up in
a patient's drug history.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Do you hear a lot of marijuana but maybe not
the drug of choice?
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Yes, I hear it routinely. And in fact, if I
look at the drug screens that we do, we do
urine drug screens on anybody that's admitted over at Harbor Light,
and I would say probably at least sixty percent of
those drug screens have THC.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Okay, So on top of the other drugs they're using,
you always find more as something that they're using possibly
addicted to. They think you're using it recreationally, but maybe
it is part of your life, that awful monster, the
disease of addiction. Have you found an increase since your
time at Harbor Light in the decades of practicing, have
(17:41):
you found an increase in marijuana use or is it
mostly the same.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
That's a good question. I think probably it's a little
bit higher than it was several years ago. It's not
a lot higher than it was several years ago. It's
definitely more prevalent in drug screens that we do. I mean,
I'm always amazed at the number of folks that come
in and they're drinking and fifths a day and I
(18:05):
find a little bit of weed in our drug screen.
I'm always amazed at that. And you know a lot
of these gentlemen that are at fifty sixty years old
and they I just about tell they're only drinking. Maybe
maybe not, I don't know, right, but no, I see
it all the time. But to answer your question, and
I think that probably goes along with the stuff that
(18:27):
we can read about, is that the marijuana youth has
not necessarily leveled off, but it is a reasonable increase
over the last five or six years.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I would say, just to kind of recap what we've
been talking about here, you can get addicted to marijuana.
Marijuana is a lot more potent than what it used
to be. Synthetic marijuana is atra dangerous. It can be
four hundred to eight hundred times more potent than what
it used to be. The deck sounds like it's stacked
against us here. It really does.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Well, yeah, and it's it's why it's the Salvation Army.
We deal with what we call hope over there. You know,
it's wonderful to have your life back. I mean, I
think he would attest to that, Matt. The ability to smile,
the ability to dream, the ability to wonder, and to
be productive and to be happy. Oh my gosh, it's
a wonderful gift. A wonderful gift.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
The gift of recovery is something that it's I jokingly say,
it's the only good decision I've made in my life.
And I say that with a smile. And the fact
this wasn't my decision that I made. I finally said,
I'm ready those magic, beautiful words.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
But you know, people didn't for me. It was the
process of recovery.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
It was the people that loved me when I didn't
love myself. I made this, this conversation we're happy right
now possible today.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
I mean, I wouldn't be speaking with you.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I wouldn't have the joy of or the privilege of
speaking with you today, doctor l Rosa.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
If it wasn't for the.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Gift of recovery places like Harbor Like, which I've been
to on multiple occasions.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
In the people, if I may say.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
So, are are just some of the most beautiful people
I've ever met. You know, you could you can feel
the love and compassion. And I love working with other
alcoholics and addicts that are in recovery, and a lot
of people that go through Harbor Like that work there.
Mike can think of a half a dozen examples off
the top of my head have been addicts or alcoholics
(20:20):
in their time.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
And that's the cool thing. It's being able to talk
to somebody.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
But uh, yeah, I didn't mean to get off on
the beaten path there a little bit. I just love
talking about recovery our patients right now, speaking about marijuana
laced with fentanyl? Are you finding that as well or
other nicotics when you go through the intake process, that
there's something help.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
And I'm hearing that from them. I hear that from
them every day. And they said, Doc, you're not going
to believe how bad the supply is, how dirty the
supply is, And I said, well, I do believe it.
I know what I can see it. I hear it
every day.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
And with that, there has to be some sort of
alarm that goes off. I mean, you know, fentanyl the
size a dose the size of a penny can kill you.
And basically a dealer will put this in the marijuana
to stretch the supply.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
That is correct. Yeah, how do you.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Feel about marijuana for medicinal purposes? A prescription of marijuana?
Do you think that I can tell.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
You what I've done in the last thirty five years
of my own practice. I have tried things like marinol
or dnabinol for multiple sclerosis. I've tried it for HIV
weight loss. I've tried it for chronic cackexia and cancer,
chronic nausea, for chemotherapy, and I give it about a
(21:35):
C plus. It's not earth shatteringly wonderful, okay.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
And then you're talking about relieving the pain when you give.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
It a C plus? Correct? Okay, that is correct. I
give it a C plus. So now what I don't know,
and what I don't have a lot of experience with
because I can't really tell yet, is is the influence
of CBD as opposed to marijuana when it comes to
patients like that. Because I don't typically ask people to
you know, when you're hurting so bad, and I can't
(22:02):
get you six or can't get you better, maybe out
to try some CBD. I don't usually go down that road.
And once again, I don't go down that road primarily
because I'm not sure I trust the CBD supply anymore
than I trust the marijuana supply. Sounds terrible, but I don't.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Well, no, it's it's it's your professional opinion through years
of treatment, and it's very much value. Do you think
CDB exasperates the marijuana abuse problem? Do you think people
are getting hooked on marijuana because they are using CBD?
Speaker 4 (22:33):
I don't know yet, Okay, I don't think. I don't
think so though. I just don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Man.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
I can't tell from from from what they're using. I
can tell you when you know, when people go to
parties and they have their gummies or they have their CBD,
and yet they're urine drug screens are positive for two weeks,
it's it's really interesting. Yeah, And so I I don't.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
I don't know if it's making it a worse problem.
I really don't.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
When you go to a party and you take a
gummy and you think of their CDB and there's a
very good chance there's going to be something.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
Else in it that's correct, that is correct.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
That could be THHC. You could be federal, it could
be anything.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Yeah, And gummies themselves are are strong because you don't
feel the initial effect because it gets in your stomach
and it takes a while to absorb, so you don't
feel the initial effects. That you take more, and then
you eat more, and you eat more guess lots. All
of a sudden you've eaten a ton. Yeah, and you
have more withdrawal than the average person would have. So
it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
And on that note, the people, the few people I
know the use gummies, I mean they say they take
one and use one word for a long story. They
become intoxicated, like you cannot drive, and you know you
shouldn't drive high to begin with, but they become what
would be considered intoxicated. And again there's all these myths
around marijuana that I've had so many friends say, yeah,
(23:52):
I drive better when I'm stoned, and I'm like, I
don't know, you don't know, you don't.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
I have heard that a gazillion times is jallion times?
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I also wanted to ask you about because this is
another argument I hear from the And this isn't demonizing anything,
you know, this is just you know, getting facts and
from your expert opinion. But I often hear people argue
that butdsinal marijuana would lower opioid abuse because marijuana something
that's supposed to be natural, is it going to be
(24:23):
there as opposed to the opioids which is manufactured. My man,
do you think a legalization of marijuana would offset some
of this opioid abuse?
Speaker 4 (24:33):
No, No, not at all.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Interesting, I don't think that at all.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
No. I think what they're looking at that the most
recent research says that it basically lowers your desire for
pain medicine. It's let's say you got chronic back pain
and you're taking a little bit of marijuana help you.
It goes down by what one and a half percent,
maybe in two percent, so you don't it's not that much. Remember,
your opioid receptors are not going to go down until
(24:59):
you get rid of those opie weight receptors are the
ones that you're giving with the cent and all the
ones you're giving with the narcotics. So if you lower
it temporarily, I think it's probably what we're going to
see is the temporary lowering of opioid addiction on marijuana.
And then I think it's going to shoot back up
again because you're you're still going to require more. If
you're not going to want to get rid of what
you're on or stop what you're on, it, you're going
(25:22):
to require more time goes on.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
I believe what you said is just like any addiction.
I mean, your tolerance builds with marijuana.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Yeah. Yeah, So I don't think it's going to lower
the opioid addiction rate at all.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
And finally, and I know this isn't about you and
what makes doctor Lorosa happy, but in treating addiction, and
I think I know the answer here. Would legalizing, say
a national legalization of marijuana make your job easier or
more difficult in treating your patients and the quantity of patients.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
No, I would not make my life any better. In fact,
it would make my life much more busy. And it's
primarily because everything that's in the supply, everything that's in
the fly, would would make it rougher. You know, the
stuff is stronger, that was even more sentinel, there's more method,
and said, I mean you spraying bug spray on the
darn stuff, all this kind of thing. Now, legalizing it
wouldn't make it better. And I also wondered, I can't
(26:13):
tell for sure, because I'm not I'm just a silly
family doctor in the trenches with my people. But what
I can't tell is what the cartels would do if
legalizing marijuana all over the place, how they would get
around that, and my suspicion that they would sell their
stuff cheaper. And my suspicion is the cheaper stuff is
(26:34):
what people would buy, and the dispensaries would not be
selling as much. I get that impression. And again, if
we and so, then we are trusting the cartels to
give us a clean supply of marijuana. Really hard from
just Wallow.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
All the cartels want to do is make money. That's
all they care about.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Exactly. That's just me, Matt. Again, I haven't read that.
I'm just I'm just spouting off a mouth here. It's me.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
You are the read you are the expert, You are
the professional, which is why we appreciate this conversation and
your candid answer so much. Finally, is there anything out
there that really alarms you, doctor LaRosa that you might
be seeing for the first second or third time a
new drug or a new kind of trend in the
drug world that you would like to caution are supporting
(27:25):
sobriety listeners about the newest stuff.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
And I think you guys saw this over on the
east side of town back in May or April, where
six people overdose. And I think what it is. It's
kind of like a bug spray and you're spraying bug
spray onto marijuana on to tobacco and smoking it and
it actually causes you to go into a zombie state.
And I you know what's it called. I think it's
(27:49):
called KD. I think is the name of the stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Okay, So that's what that is, Okay, because I was
going to ask you, I'm glad you said that.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
Excellent, but I would be careful with all that kind
of stuf. I really would.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Well, it seems like that drug world always wants to
stay one step ahead, key being the disease of addiction
one step ahead, and which is why we have guys
like you we could talk about on this podcast that
God has given us. Doctor l Rosa always a pleasure,
my friend, and if you need anything, just reach out
to a good to know that you're out there treating
people like Ran and.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
I very good. Thank you very much, Matt, and I
wish you guys are best.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Give us a minute and we'll have our closing thoughts
when we come back and tell you how to hook
up with the Supporting sobriety community here on the Supporting
Sobriety Podcast. I had changed the locks, didn't even know
where she was living, and one night she calls to
say she's getting treatment.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Can I drive? I almost hung up, but then I thought,
that's my kid. I chose to put away to hurt
and the fear and just see my girl.
Speaker 6 (28:54):
Addiction is a disease standing by a loved one as
they fight it. We'll test your faith, patience, and santa,
but it's possible when you see the person, not just
their disease. Learn more at cbeyonde Addiction dot org.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
This is the Supporting Sobriety podcast.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Supporting Sobriety podcast at Sobriety, Underscore, pod ont ex, Instagram,
find us there, join the conversation please pretty please, And
given this episode is on marijuana, we would love to
hear from somebody who has a recovery program that includes THHC.
I want to know how that works. I really do,
and I'm not going to lie. I say, if you
(29:39):
use THCHC as part of your recovery and it's working,
more power to you. I want you to be happy.
I want you to be your version of sober. That's
not my version of sober. Maybe I'm ignorant. So if
you want to shoot us message, shoot us a tweet,
say something on Instagram, I you know, whatever you want
to do and talk about your THCHC recovery, we'd love
to hear from it.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Again. This is not anti marijuana.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
No, as a matter of fact, and maybe Ryan can
give his take care in the future episode. But if
marijuana wants to be legal, go be legal. Marijuana, be yourself.
Just stay away from us addicts and alcoholics.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
We can't. We can't be your friend.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I just hate to say that. The humble nature, you know,
recovery sought me so much humility. I don't want to
say I can't be your friend. Even the marijuana makes me.
Send take you to our guest doctor Michael de Rosa
of Harbor Leda just a beautiful recovery center here in Indianapolis, Indiana.
Homa supporting so Brady where Ryan and I broadcast, and
speaking of Ryan, he's going to be back for the
(30:37):
next episode. As I said at the beginning, he's on
a personal matter which I'm hoping we will discuss here
in a week or two, you know.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
And that's what recovery is.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
You share, you challenge yourself, you become uncomfortable, you talk
about things, and it all makes you better. When Ryan
and I talk about the gift of recovery and we
talk about how beautiful it is, it's just that constant,
that constant progress of becoming an adult and for us
becoming men and learning integrity and learning the value of
(31:07):
keeping your word, all those things we did not have,
at least I did not have when I was using,
when I was drunk all the time. I really think
there's something too when you become addicted at a young age,
whether it's your early twenties or your teens, it really
stunts the growth process, that stunts the maturity process. Recovery
(31:30):
has taught me so many things about humility. Recovery has
taught me that you need to keep your word, that
you need to be honest, because if you're not, you're
going to be using again, and if I use again,
I'm going to die. My last drunk almost killed me.
It's going to be a very spiritual conversation.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
When Ryan gets back. We're going to talk about recovery.
We're going to talk.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
About what he went through in the highs and the lows,
and there's going to be both and at the end,
I think it's going to have a very beautiful ending,
and I want you to be part of that. As
far as our weed smokers out there might be listening,
the caregivers, dow enjoy yourself, feel better, Please don't become addicted.
And if you think you're struggling, talk to somebody. You
(32:12):
can always start with the person you trust the most. Okay,
and that doesn't listen. You may not trust anybody right now,
but the person you trust the most, the most non judgmental,
somebody who can keep a secret. Maybe now, remember that
secret's going to have to come out of you at
some point. If you do have a problem, it's going
to come from you. We make the decision. Nobody makes
(32:33):
it for us. You can take us to treatment a
hundred times. You can throw us in the back of
the car, throw us in the trunk. We can be
punching at the trunk, trying to get out, maybe get out,
rollout onto the interstate, get hit by, I don't. Whatever
it is, we have to make the final decision. We
have to say those magic words. They are so beautiful
and if you've heard of them, you know what I'm
talking about. They hear the person you love the most
(32:53):
say I'm ready, because damn it, that means we are.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
A beautiful thing.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
To be able to talk to you guys today, miss Ryan,
miss the hell out of Ryan. He's going to be
back for the next episode. This is such a blessing
to be able to sit with you on the Supporting
so Bridy podcast and for your listening, God bless you
and thank you for being with us. You can find
Supporting Sobriety at Sobridy, Underscore, pod on x and Instagram.
However you're listening to you Supporting so Bridy, just keep it.
(33:22):
If you have a friend that's looking more on any
major podcast provider apples, Spotify, you can use any of those.
Alan On is a fantastic group for you caregiver. I
mean it's a bunch of caregivers in a room drinking coffee,
swearing a lot and talking about the things that we're
putting you through as addics and alcoholics and use. If
you need a different kind of help, If you need
(33:43):
a new friend, go to alan On. If you need
a meeting, go to aa dot intergroup dot org, forward
Slash meetings, and of course always reach out for help.
Never go to the bitter end, Never go to the
absolute end. Suicide Prevention hotline is eight hundred two seven
read eight two five five available.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Twenty four seven.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
And remember, when there's breadth, there's hope.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Thank you for listening to the Supporting Sobriety podcast
Welcome to the Supporting Sobriety podcast, dedicated to the unsung
heroes behind those struggling with addiction. They're friends and family
like you who'll share insights, stories and resources to help
you support your loved ones and care for yourself on
the recovery journey.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Supporting Sobriety Podcast at Sobridy, Underscore pod, on x or Twitter.
I have no problems with marijuana. I mean, personally, I
have a problem with that. I can't do it because
I'm an addict. I'm a recovering addict and alcoholic. That's
my problem with marijuana. As far as marijuana being legal,
I have no problems with that. In fact, a little secret,
I think it should be legal for people who are
(00:44):
not recovering alcoholics and atics. And I know there are
probably a thousand recovery programs out there that involve THHD.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
If that's your thing, more power to you.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
If you can keep THC for being a gateway drug,
more power to you. But marijuana is so much stronger
to day. Can you get addicted to marijuana? How much
stronger is it? What are the dangers in a fednal
world with marijuana? And we're going to talk about all
this with doctor Michael Lrossa, who's from Harbor Light, a
(01:13):
recovery center here at idiot app was a recovery center
with a heart of gold, a huge heart.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
And it's not Hey, it's not a country club.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
You're not going to be playing frisbee golf at Harbor Light,
but what you are going to get is a huge
guid shot and a lot of love. And by the way,
we are not affiliated in a business manner, Harbor Light
and supporting so Brady podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
We just really like each other. We help each other out.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
You know, recovery works, we keep it by giving it
away and I kind of feel like that's with this
podcast in harbor Light Center.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
It's really cool.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Ryan Hedrick, the co host of this podcast, He's taking
care of a personal matter.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Today, which is why I'm speaking with you.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Now by myself and hopefully and we've talked a little
bit like Ryan and I do, and for the next
episode when he comes back, I believe he wants to
speak about this personal matter and from what I know
about it, and he's going to tell the story. But
from what I know about it, this is going to
be the biggest god shot of your week. Maybe your month,
because there's going to be the bad, there's going to
(02:11):
be the good. There's going to be the bad, and
then we're going to reach the sun and it's going
to be this beautiful god shot at the end, and
you're going to be like, You're going to be like.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Man, I'm glad I sat through that. Man, I'm glad
I listened to Ryan Hendrick today.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
It's it's I'm really excited to do it. That's why
I'm talking about it.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Recovery. You get all these things excited about you. Your
just like whoa, Yeah, Recovery's awesome.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Man.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Four years and three months in change is what I'm
on and I think Ryan's around there too. We just
love doing this podcast today. The point is to speak
about marijuana and kind of have a where are we
at with this right now?
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Again? Can you get addicted? How strong is it? Where
is it?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
What's in it? Really good questions that we'll speak with
doctor LaRosa about. It is stronger what our parents smoke.
The weed we have today is so much stronger than
what our parents smoked. According to Bath University, this big
time research university over in England, what Mam and dad
smoked was fourteen percent weaker than what we have today.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Hash the hashish.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Twenty five percent more potent today than what it was
fifty years ago.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
That's a hell of a number.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
The findings come from expert announced us of more than
eighty thousand weed samples. So the control group is there. Yeah,
and it's a study over last fifty years, starting in
nineteen seventy.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
So basically the hash the grass ah so much stronger
today than what we are smoking.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Hey, can we get addicted to marijuana? I mean, I've
been in recovery meetings in you know, as somebody might
say I'm addicted to marijuana, and we kind of give
him a sign kind of well, that's not heroin, that's
not the one shot killed like Feederoh, you can't even
know de.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
For marijuana at least, that's the common thinking. What else
are you addicted to? Huh, God, it's got to be
something else.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
We're going to talk about that with doctor larrosakev it
up here, whether or not you can become addicted to marijuana,
and whether or not, and don't throw anything at me,
whether or not you can overdose on marijuana. I want
to ask the question. I know the answer. The comed
answer is no, No, you can't, Oh dummy, you can't
overdose on marijuana. Everybody knows that it's a lot stronger
(04:25):
than what it used to be. And what if it
has fetanyl? Remember fentanyl dose size of the penny can
kill you. You can die on heroin first time you
use heroin. So if you're getting fentanyl, maybe an opioid
into your weed, he could o d Maybe it's strong
enough to make you of D. I don't know the answers,
(04:46):
which is why we're going to speak with an expert.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
In a couple of minutes.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Harvard Hell says today's cannabis products can contain levels of THC.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
You know, that's the buckaboo and weed. You know, the
thing to make.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Sure I as high as ninety percent, that's that's huge.
It was two to three percent in nineteen seventy. So
ninety percent THAC levels today compared to two to three
percent in the nineteen seventies.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
That's from Harvard Health. I asked ai.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Hey, it doesn't ever have to cite his sources, but hey,
I says that nineteen seventies average THAC content one to
three percent today is seventeen to thirty percent. So it's
not saying ninety percent like Harvard, but that.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Just is.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
THC content marijuana and cannabis is a lot higher today
than what it was with her parents. Plus we have
the risk of fentanol. So we have a lot to
speak with doctor l Rosa about here in a minute
or two. I wasn't ever, I wasn't a big wing guy.
I was an opiate guy. Of course, I was an
alcoholic alcoholic. My wife that was always there, alcohol would
(05:53):
never leave. But it was opioids that they were. My
muse says, they're my harem.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Love the opioids.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
You could put a nuclear bomb dex and me set
the timer and I'd start laughing if I was on
oxacon and that.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Sounds like a good time.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Well, you know, wait until you're a week later and
you keep having to build up that tolerance and then
you can't get any and it feels like alligators are
eating your legs. Yeah, they included in the withdrawal symptoms.
They absolutely worse. But I was never a big weed guy.
I always made an ass in myself when I was
doing weed. Now, there was a period in my late
teens early twenties where I was smoking grass all the time.
(06:28):
But that was just masking the fact that I felt
like a miserable fuck all the time. Yeah, and but
it never made me feel good about me.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
I could not talk.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I'm bad at talking to women to begin with, especially
once I'm attracted to. But I tell you what, I
would smoke grass and I wouldn't be like that woo, No,
I would like go hide in a quarter man. It
was we'd maybe so paranoid, took all those things, all
those insecurities inside of me and just doubled down.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
That's not the case with a lot of people. A
lot of people can use.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Marijuana without becoming addicted. They can use marijuana without any
social stigma. They can be a sacrament. We have a
church here in Indianapol, what it's called the First Church
of Cannabis and Marijuana is the sacrament. Now, I think
it was started for political reasons more than anything, but it's.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
There and it's their sacrament.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
People can use marijuana without becoming addicted. And more power
to you, man. I hope the government treats you rightan
I hope you get your medicinal use. There's also speaking
of medicinal uses, there's also an argument out there that
legalizing marijuana would cut back the use of opioids, which I.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Am really in favor for.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
If you give somebody marijuana and opioids, I hope they
choose marijuana. Yeah, gungs up your lungs. It does things.
But man, oh man, my experience with both, I would
rather come off marijuana and opioids any day of the week,
twice on Sunday. Those opioids hook you. They can hook
you legally and you're off to the races.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
There. This suck, especially with the withdrawal symptoms.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
All right, let's take a second here again. Ryan's coming
back for the next episode.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
We can't wait.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
We really miss him. Spiritual lion, right. Hedrick our co
host of the Supporting Sobridy podcast, And when we come back,
you and I are going to talk to doctor l
Rosa about marijuana, it's strength, addiction, and where we are
at today.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
That's next on the Supporting Sobridy Podcast. I found hope
in the midst of an overwhelming situation.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Alcoholism can affect any family. Are you in an overwhelming situation?
Because if someone else is drinking, alan On and Altein
can help call eight sixty six two zero zero zero
zero three three or visit allanon dot org slash hope.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
This is the Supporting Sobriety podcast.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Supporting Sobriety podcast at Sobriety Underscore pod on x and Instagram.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
You can find us there.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Speaking about a few minutes ago, we wanted to talk
to our friend friend of Supporting Sobriety, doctor Michael LaRosa
of Harbor Light Recovery Center in Indianapolis, Indiana, the home
of Supporting Sobriety. We want to talk about marijuana, and
I do have experience in use, being recovered down coaholic
and the recovering addict. I did do a fair share
(09:23):
of marijuana when I was in my late teens and
early twenties.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
It was never really my thing, but I.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Know a cannabis continues to become more and more popular
in the United States today. So we welcome back doctor
LaRosa to the Supporting Sobriety Podcast.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Doctor LaRosa, great to have you.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Remind us again what exactly are your responsibilities at Harbor Light.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Yeah, I'm the medical Detalks manager over there, and we
take care of just about everything, you know, alcohol, cocaine,
myth and satamin olucima, jens anything really that people can
get in trouble with. We try to detox them, and
we have different regimens and different timeframes of how we
detox them over there. And then once we're done with
(10:07):
the acute stuff, we get him into residential treatment, we
get him into transitional housing and things like that. That's
what I do every day over there.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Well, first questions first, because it's something that I hear
that you can't become addicted to marijuana and want to
ask you the professional, can you become addicted to marijuana?
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yes, absolutely, you can, Matt. Absolutely. I'd say probably one
out of ten people can become addicted just after using
initiating the drug and they'll develop a cannabis use disorder,
you know, one out of six teenagers and get addicted.
And probably daily users, you know, twenty five thirty percent
(10:45):
of those folks can become addicted. So it does get
an addicted potential to it.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yes, And I spoke about this a little bit ago,
doctor l Ross. According to statistics CDC included how easy
it is to become addicted to marijuana, and if we
start using in our adolescent years, it increases the chance
that adults we will become addicted to marijuana.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Do you agree with that thesis?
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Absolutely? And we see that with other substances across the
board too. The earlier that you drink, the more difficulty
you're going to have getting rid of that alcohol. The
same way with the opiates as well. But yes, absolutely,
twelve to eighteen, I would say, what was there reading
earlier that half of the admissions to treatment centers for
(11:32):
young people twelve to eighteen is for marijuana use.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And I remember in my recovery experiences in Rehabilitaian centers
so many I want to say kids. I mean, I'm
in my mid forties now, but as so many young
adults and teenagers in these recovery centers, and you know,
they're addicted to the marijuana, they're addicted, yes, to the
opians and the heroin, and they're getting involved in such
an early age. And I get two with my drinking,
(11:57):
in my drug use, I started at an early age.
You know, it's a blessing to be in recovery. I
love being recovering alcoholic. But here we are, you know,
here we are. I started early and I quit late.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Yep, you are a classic example, Matt, of what we're
struggling with. Really, in general.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
The philosophy, you know, what we're smoking with marijuana isn't
the same as what our parents were smoking back in
the civities. Do you believe that marijuana is stronger today
than what it used to be?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Yeah, absolutely, it's it's probably three times stronger than it
used to be.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Can you overdose on it?
Speaker 4 (12:31):
There has not been a documented death to marijuana, both
the light stuff and the heavy, guerrilla strength stuff that
we can document. That said, is the marijuana supply clean?
The answer is no. And is the marijuana supply lace
with all kinds of stuff that you can overdose from
Sentinel and K two and all this kind of jazz.
(12:55):
Absolutely it is. So that's where the marijua want a
lobby points to, Look, we haven't had an overdose death
from marijuana ever documented, And then they say, well, you
know what, it's the lowest guy on the totem pole
regarding cocaine and methamphetamine and alcohol and tobacco. It's the
lowest one on the totem pole. So it's got to
(13:15):
be safe. That's the perception, and that is a deadly, deadly,
deadly trap as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
So the lobby essentially would say, there's nobody overdosing on marijuana.
But they're talking about the stuff that comes directly from
the ground and that's all there is in it. They
might be leaving on the fact that marijuana could be
laced with fentanyl or an opioid.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Is that correct?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Yeah, that is absolutely correct. And and and that's the
frustration that we get into trying to trying to treat this,
because you know, the marijuana lobby is a voracious group
of souls. They they they will they will go to
the mat and they will present every bit of research
that's not necessarily peered reviewed right in front of you.
(13:58):
And now basically they see it's okay, it's just a dangerous,
dangerous toy, guys, a very dangerous toy, particularly with what's
in it now, very dangerous.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Well in the mists surround it. That you can't overdose
on it. I mean that as an addict. That would
stick in my head and I would use that as
a catalyst to go using marijuana.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
I'd say, hey, I can't no different it. You know
what's the problem, and.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
You know the positives people discuss, you know, with the
medicinal purposes, and you know, you hear a lot more
good about marijuana these days than bad. And it's not
like I want to demonize the thing, but I'm sorry.
Addiction is addiction, and if you become addicted to it,
it can become lethal.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Is that a hypothesis? Is that safe?
Speaker 4 (14:39):
That is very safe?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Talking with doctor Michael LaRosa of Harbor Light Recovery Center
at Idiot Apples Home is supporting sobriety and we want
to move our You said something a little bit earlier,
you talked about the gorilla, the big bad gorilla of marijuana.
Were you referencing possibly synthetic marijuana when you said that
the stuff that people make, well.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Even if you just use the stuff that they're always
cultivating new stronger strengths of marijuana. I'm talking about the
stuff that is now compared to what in the nineteen seventies.
But when it comes to synthetic, oh my goodness, how
many hundreds of times more potent is it than even
the really hard regular stuff that people are using now?
(15:23):
Much much more potent now, that is a totally different animal.
And guess what there are overdoses with that.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Oh okay, So if it comes from the ground, that's
the argument. If it's just pure you k and od.
But if man is making it, then we have risk
at becoming overdosed.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
And let me roll play here.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Say I'm buying marijuana, I'm not going to be asking
whether or not as straight from the ground or if
it's man made.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Am I I just want the drug?
Speaker 4 (15:48):
No, that's correct.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
It's safe to say that with the rage of synthetic marijuana.
They're synthetic types of marijuana legal in Indiana, even though
marijuana is not legal in Indiana, still being sold by
man made and being able to undercut the law in
some ways. If you can quantify, and I don't know
if you can't, how much more dangerous is synthetic a
man made marijuana over what's grown in the ground.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
You know, Man, I've read anywhere from four hundred and
eight percent stronger. That's what I've read. Now again is
that I've not been able to really really feel that
apart and corroborate that, but that's what I've read.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I mean, that's an amazing number. Four hundred to eight stronger, correct.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I Mean that just blows my mind, especially when I
think about what my parents might have smoked in the
seventies compared to tell, I mean, that would just just amazing.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
It's it's nothing to mess with. It really is nothing
to mess with.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Say you have a recovering alcoholic, an attic like myself,
and I'm talking about my alcohol use, my opioid use,
and whatever else might be in there, say ecstasy, cocaine,
everything else is marijuana maybe a commonality coming up in
a patient's drug history.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Do you hear a lot of marijuana but maybe not
the drug of choice?
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Yes, I hear it routinely. And in fact, if I
look at the drug screens that we do, we do
urine drug screens on anybody that's admitted over at Harbor Light,
and I would say probably at least sixty percent of
those drug screens have THC.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Okay, So on top of the other drugs they're using,
you always find more as something that they're using possibly
addicted to. They think you're using it recreationally, but maybe
it is part of your life, that awful monster, the
disease of addiction. Have you found an increase since your
time at Harbor Light in the decades of practicing, have
(17:41):
you found an increase in marijuana use or is it
mostly the same.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
That's a good question. I think probably it's a little
bit higher than it was several years ago. It's not
a lot higher than it was several years ago. It's
definitely more prevalent in drug screens that we do. I mean,
I'm always amazed at the number of folks that come
in and they're drinking and fifths a day and I
(18:05):
find a little bit of weed in our drug screen.
I'm always amazed at that. And you know a lot
of these gentlemen that are at fifty sixty years old
and they I just about tell they're only drinking. Maybe
maybe not, I don't know, right, but no, I see
it all the time. But to answer your question, and
I think that probably goes along with the stuff that
(18:27):
we can read about, is that the marijuana youth has
not necessarily leveled off, but it is a reasonable increase
over the last five or six years.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I would say, just to kind of recap what we've
been talking about here, you can get addicted to marijuana.
Marijuana is a lot more potent than what it used
to be. Synthetic marijuana is atra dangerous. It can be
four hundred to eight hundred times more potent than what
it used to be. The deck sounds like it's stacked
against us here. It really does.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Well, yeah, and it's it's why it's the Salvation Army.
We deal with what we call hope over there. You know,
it's wonderful to have your life back. I mean, I
think he would attest to that, Matt. The ability to smile,
the ability to dream, the ability to wonder, and to
be productive and to be happy. Oh my gosh, it's
a wonderful gift. A wonderful gift.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
The gift of recovery is something that it's I jokingly say,
it's the only good decision I've made in my life.
And I say that with a smile. And the fact
this wasn't my decision that I made. I finally said,
I'm ready those magic, beautiful words.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
But you know, people didn't for me. It was the
process of recovery.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
It was the people that loved me when I didn't
love myself. I made this, this conversation we're happy right
now possible today.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
I mean, I wouldn't be speaking with you.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I wouldn't have the joy of or the privilege of
speaking with you today, doctor l Rosa.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
If it wasn't for the.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Gift of recovery places like Harbor Like, which I've been
to on multiple occasions.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
In the people, if I may say.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
So, are are just some of the most beautiful people
I've ever met. You know, you could you can feel
the love and compassion. And I love working with other
alcoholics and addicts that are in recovery, and a lot
of people that go through Harbor Like that work there.
Mike can think of a half a dozen examples off
the top of my head have been addicts or alcoholics
(20:20):
in their time.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
And that's the cool thing. It's being able to talk
to somebody.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
But uh, yeah, I didn't mean to get off on
the beaten path there a little bit. I just love
talking about recovery our patients right now, speaking about marijuana
laced with fentanyl? Are you finding that as well or
other nicotics when you go through the intake process, that
there's something help.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
And I'm hearing that from them. I hear that from
them every day. And they said, Doc, you're not going
to believe how bad the supply is, how dirty the
supply is, And I said, well, I do believe it.
I know what I can see it. I hear it
every day.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
And with that, there has to be some sort of
alarm that goes off. I mean, you know, fentanyl the
size a dose the size of a penny can kill you.
And basically a dealer will put this in the marijuana
to stretch the supply.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
That is correct. Yeah, how do you.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Feel about marijuana for medicinal purposes? A prescription of marijuana?
Do you think that I can tell.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
You what I've done in the last thirty five years
of my own practice. I have tried things like marinol
or dnabinol for multiple sclerosis. I've tried it for HIV
weight loss. I've tried it for chronic cackexia and cancer,
chronic nausea, for chemotherapy, and I give it about a
(21:35):
C plus. It's not earth shatteringly wonderful, okay.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
And then you're talking about relieving the pain when you give.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
It a C plus? Correct? Okay, that is correct. I
give it a C plus. So now what I don't know,
and what I don't have a lot of experience with
because I can't really tell yet, is is the influence
of CBD as opposed to marijuana when it comes to
patients like that. Because I don't typically ask people to
you know, when you're hurting so bad, and I can't
(22:02):
get you six or can't get you better, maybe out
to try some CBD. I don't usually go down that road.
And once again, I don't go down that road primarily
because I'm not sure I trust the CBD supply anymore
than I trust the marijuana supply. Sounds terrible, but I don't.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Well, no, it's it's it's your professional opinion through years
of treatment, and it's very much value. Do you think
CDB exasperates the marijuana abuse problem? Do you think people
are getting hooked on marijuana because they are using CBD?
Speaker 4 (22:33):
I don't know yet, Okay, I don't think. I don't
think so though. I just don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Man.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
I can't tell from from from what they're using. I
can tell you when you know, when people go to
parties and they have their gummies or they have their CBD,
and yet they're urine drug screens are positive for two weeks,
it's it's really interesting. Yeah, And so I I don't.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
I don't know if it's making it a worse problem.
I really don't.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
When you go to a party and you take a
gummy and you think of their CDB and there's a
very good chance there's going to be something.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
Else in it that's correct, that is correct.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
That could be THHC. You could be federal, it could
be anything.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Yeah, And gummies themselves are are strong because you don't
feel the initial effect because it gets in your stomach
and it takes a while to absorb, so you don't
feel the initial effects. That you take more, and then
you eat more, and you eat more guess lots. All
of a sudden you've eaten a ton. Yeah, and you
have more withdrawal than the average person would have. So
it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
And on that note, the people, the few people I
know the use gummies, I mean they say they take
one and use one word for a long story. They
become intoxicated, like you cannot drive, and you know you
shouldn't drive high to begin with, but they become what
would be considered intoxicated. And again there's all these myths
around marijuana that I've had so many friends say, yeah,
(23:52):
I drive better when I'm stoned, and I'm like, I
don't know, you don't know, you don't.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
I have heard that a gazillion times is jallion times?
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I also wanted to ask you about because this is
another argument I hear from the And this isn't demonizing anything,
you know, this is just you know, getting facts and
from your expert opinion. But I often hear people argue
that butdsinal marijuana would lower opioid abuse because marijuana something
that's supposed to be natural, is it going to be
(24:23):
there as opposed to the opioids which is manufactured. My man,
do you think a legalization of marijuana would offset some
of this opioid abuse?
Speaker 4 (24:33):
No, No, not at all.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Interesting, I don't think that at all.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
No. I think what they're looking at that the most
recent research says that it basically lowers your desire for
pain medicine. It's let's say you got chronic back pain
and you're taking a little bit of marijuana help you.
It goes down by what one and a half percent,
maybe in two percent, so you don't it's not that much. Remember,
your opioid receptors are not going to go down until
(24:59):
you get rid of those opie weight receptors are the
ones that you're giving with the cent and all the
ones you're giving with the narcotics. So if you lower
it temporarily, I think it's probably what we're going to
see is the temporary lowering of opioid addiction on marijuana.
And then I think it's going to shoot back up
again because you're you're still going to require more. If
you're not going to want to get rid of what
you're on or stop what you're on, it, you're going
(25:22):
to require more time goes on.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
I believe what you said is just like any addiction.
I mean, your tolerance builds with marijuana.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Yeah. Yeah, So I don't think it's going to lower
the opioid addiction rate at all.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
And finally, and I know this isn't about you and
what makes doctor Lorosa happy, but in treating addiction, and
I think I know the answer here. Would legalizing, say
a national legalization of marijuana make your job easier or
more difficult in treating your patients and the quantity of patients.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
No, I would not make my life any better. In fact,
it would make my life much more busy. And it's
primarily because everything that's in the supply, everything that's in
the fly, would would make it rougher. You know, the
stuff is stronger, that was even more sentinel, there's more method,
and said, I mean you spraying bug spray on the
darn stuff, all this kind of thing. Now, legalizing it
wouldn't make it better. And I also wondered, I can't
(26:13):
tell for sure, because I'm not I'm just a silly
family doctor in the trenches with my people. But what
I can't tell is what the cartels would do if
legalizing marijuana all over the place, how they would get
around that, and my suspicion that they would sell their
stuff cheaper. And my suspicion is the cheaper stuff is
(26:34):
what people would buy, and the dispensaries would not be
selling as much. I get that impression. And again, if
we and so, then we are trusting the cartels to
give us a clean supply of marijuana. Really hard from
just Wallow.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
All the cartels want to do is make money. That's
all they care about.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Exactly. That's just me, Matt. Again, I haven't read that.
I'm just I'm just spouting off a mouth here. It's me.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
You are the read you are the expert, You are
the professional, which is why we appreciate this conversation and
your candid answer so much. Finally, is there anything out
there that really alarms you, doctor LaRosa that you might
be seeing for the first second or third time a
new drug or a new kind of trend in the
drug world that you would like to caution are supporting
(27:25):
sobriety listeners about the newest stuff.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
And I think you guys saw this over on the
east side of town back in May or April, where
six people overdose. And I think what it is. It's
kind of like a bug spray and you're spraying bug
spray onto marijuana on to tobacco and smoking it and
it actually causes you to go into a zombie state.
And I you know what's it called. I think it's
(27:49):
called KD. I think is the name of the stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Okay, So that's what that is, Okay, because I was
going to ask you, I'm glad you said that.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
Excellent, but I would be careful with all that kind
of stuf. I really would.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Well, it seems like that drug world always wants to
stay one step ahead, key being the disease of addiction
one step ahead, and which is why we have guys
like you we could talk about on this podcast that
God has given us. Doctor l Rosa always a pleasure,
my friend, and if you need anything, just reach out
to a good to know that you're out there treating
people like Ran and.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
I very good. Thank you very much, Matt, and I
wish you guys are best.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Give us a minute and we'll have our closing thoughts
when we come back and tell you how to hook
up with the Supporting sobriety community here on the Supporting
Sobriety Podcast. I had changed the locks, didn't even know
where she was living, and one night she calls to
say she's getting treatment.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Can I drive? I almost hung up, but then I thought,
that's my kid. I chose to put away to hurt
and the fear and just see my girl.
Speaker 6 (28:54):
Addiction is a disease standing by a loved one as
they fight it. We'll test your faith, patience, and santa,
but it's possible when you see the person, not just
their disease. Learn more at cbeyonde Addiction dot org.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
This is the Supporting Sobriety podcast.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Supporting Sobriety podcast at Sobriety, Underscore, pod ont ex, Instagram,
find us there, join the conversation please pretty please, And
given this episode is on marijuana, we would love to
hear from somebody who has a recovery program that includes THHC.
I want to know how that works. I really do,
and I'm not going to lie. I say, if you
(29:39):
use THCHC as part of your recovery and it's working,
more power to you. I want you to be happy.
I want you to be your version of sober. That's
not my version of sober. Maybe I'm ignorant. So if
you want to shoot us message, shoot us a tweet,
say something on Instagram, I you know, whatever you want
to do and talk about your THCHC recovery, we'd love
to hear from it.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Again. This is not anti marijuana.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
No, as a matter of fact, and maybe Ryan can
give his take care in the future episode. But if
marijuana wants to be legal, go be legal. Marijuana, be yourself.
Just stay away from us addicts and alcoholics.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
We can't. We can't be your friend.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I just hate to say that. The humble nature, you know,
recovery sought me so much humility. I don't want to
say I can't be your friend. Even the marijuana makes me.
Send take you to our guest doctor Michael de Rosa
of Harbor Leda just a beautiful recovery center here in Indianapolis, Indiana.
Homa supporting so Brady where Ryan and I broadcast, and
speaking of Ryan, he's going to be back for the
(30:37):
next episode. As I said at the beginning, he's on
a personal matter which I'm hoping we will discuss here
in a week or two, you know.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
And that's what recovery is.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
You share, you challenge yourself, you become uncomfortable, you talk
about things, and it all makes you better. When Ryan
and I talk about the gift of recovery and we
talk about how beautiful it is, it's just that constant,
that constant progress of becoming an adult and for us
becoming men and learning integrity and learning the value of
(31:07):
keeping your word, all those things we did not have,
at least I did not have when I was using,
when I was drunk all the time. I really think
there's something too when you become addicted at a young age,
whether it's your early twenties or your teens, it really
stunts the growth process, that stunts the maturity process. Recovery
(31:30):
has taught me so many things about humility. Recovery has
taught me that you need to keep your word, that
you need to be honest, because if you're not, you're
going to be using again, and if I use again,
I'm going to die. My last drunk almost killed me.
It's going to be a very spiritual conversation.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
When Ryan gets back. We're going to talk about recovery.
We're going to talk.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
About what he went through in the highs and the lows,
and there's going to be both and at the end,
I think it's going to have a very beautiful ending,
and I want you to be part of that. As
far as our weed smokers out there might be listening,
the caregivers, dow enjoy yourself, feel better, Please don't become addicted.
And if you think you're struggling, talk to somebody. You
(32:12):
can always start with the person you trust the most. Okay,
and that doesn't listen. You may not trust anybody right now,
but the person you trust the most, the most non judgmental,
somebody who can keep a secret. Maybe now, remember that
secret's going to have to come out of you at
some point. If you do have a problem, it's going
to come from you. We make the decision. Nobody makes
(32:33):
it for us. You can take us to treatment a
hundred times. You can throw us in the back of
the car, throw us in the trunk. We can be
punching at the trunk, trying to get out, maybe get out,
rollout onto the interstate, get hit by, I don't. Whatever
it is, we have to make the final decision. We
have to say those magic words. They are so beautiful
and if you've heard of them, you know what I'm
talking about. They hear the person you love the most
(32:53):
say I'm ready, because damn it, that means we are.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
A beautiful thing.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
To be able to talk to you guys today, miss Ryan,
miss the hell out of Ryan. He's going to be
back for the next episode. This is such a blessing
to be able to sit with you on the Supporting
so Bridy podcast and for your listening, God bless you
and thank you for being with us. You can find
Supporting Sobriety at Sobridy, Underscore, pod on x and Instagram.
However you're listening to you Supporting so Bridy, just keep it.
(33:22):
If you have a friend that's looking more on any
major podcast provider apples, Spotify, you can use any of those.
Alan On is a fantastic group for you caregiver. I
mean it's a bunch of caregivers in a room drinking coffee,
swearing a lot and talking about the things that we're
putting you through as addics and alcoholics and use. If
you need a different kind of help, If you need
(33:43):
a new friend, go to alan On. If you need
a meeting, go to aa dot intergroup dot org, forward
Slash meetings, and of course always reach out for help.
Never go to the bitter end, Never go to the
absolute end. Suicide Prevention hotline is eight hundred two seven
read eight two five five available.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Twenty four seven.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
And remember, when there's breadth, there's hope.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Thank you for listening to the Supporting Sobriety podcast
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