November 3, 2025 • 20 mins
Westpac shares have gained 21% this year, outperforming the broader S&P/ASX 200 Financials index. This week on the podcast, CEO Anthony Miller talks to host Rebecca Jones and finance editor Adam Haigh after delivering his first full-year earnings report. They discuss those results, Miller’s outlook for the Australian economy, AI and hybrid work arrangements.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello. I'm Rebecca Jones, and this is the Bloomberg Australia podcast,
where every week we go behind the headlines and into
the stories shaping Australia's place in global business. Westpac published
its full year numbers on Monday, and while not without headwinds,
there are signs of stability and strategic momentum. So how
(00:22):
is Westpac navigating margin pressures, consumer sentiment and a very
competitive landscape. Bloomberg Finance editor Adam Haig is here with
me now, and we're asking all of these questions to
the person in charge, Westpac's Chief executive Officer, Anthony Miller.
Good day, Anthony, thank you for joining.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Us, Thanks for having me pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
So we're speaking right after you've released Westpac's full year numbers.
A full year for west Pack and a full year
for you. You started in this role in December twenty
twenty four, Anthony, what's been the biggest challenge of this
first year in the hot seat?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Look, I would say that there's certainly been challenges, but
it's been so enjoyable and in many ways more enjoyable
than I thought it would be in my first year.
So that's sort of one thing I'd like to share
with you, I mean, the other thing that sort of
has stood out to me is I spent a lot
of the year really making sure I've got the leadership
team in place and I've got the right people in
(01:20):
the right seats to allow us to execute our plan
over the next three to four years. And so I
was really satisfied with how that's come together this year.
And I think we've got a great team executive team
and a great leadership team across the bank now, which
she's really sort of exciting and quite invigrating, I mean.
And the only thing that sort of surprised me in
the first year, and again I thought I'd thought this
(01:41):
through properly and I had waited it appropriately, was how
many demands would become at me and how much time
I would spend outside of, if you will, day to
day bank leadership, day to day bank management, in terms
of listening to and engaging with external stakeholder you know,
whether that be regulatory, whether that be community leaders, you know,
(02:06):
clearly political leaders, etc. It's amazing how many do want
to engage with the bank. And that's an important responsibility
which I knew coming into the role. I just didn't
realize how much time I would end up spending on that.
So that's been a little bit of a surprise over
the last twelve months.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
And looking forward, you know, from where you see it,
which parts of the economy is showing the strongest momentum
right now, and where does Westpac see growth potential, say
over the next year or two.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, certainly over the last twelve months, you know what
we saw in terms of growth in our institutional business
seventeen percent growth in the loan book there, in particular
in infrastructure, natural resources, energy. You know, the transition is
large and is a real opportunity for the country and
so we've been very active in that. Were the largest
renewables lender, certainly also in natural resources in terms of
(02:59):
rare earths and critical minerals. We've been quite excited by
that potential and that opportunity and we've started to realize
that in the last six months in particular, and there's
a lot more I think going forward there. And then
the other I suppose area that's been really pleasing is
our commercial bank, which is sort of, if you will,
not the large institutional business in Australia, but sort of
(03:21):
mid sized entities and some of the growth that we've
seen there has been very exciting. And in that space
we have our agricultural business and so growth in the
agricultural sector over the last twelve months has again been
really positive. And Australia's one of its real comparative advantages
is the quality of its agricultural industry and cattle, sheep, dairy, wheat, etc.
(03:43):
All the grains. We have a real comparative and advantage
there as a country and we've been very actively supporting
the growth in that space as well. So that's been
really encouraging. There's certainly been some really pleasing growth in
a few areas, small business areas, but that's been a
little harder in the last twelve months. You know, clearly
(04:04):
it's still a difficult environment and we're only just starting
to see small businesses emerge and be a little bit
more active now.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
And Anthony, what about for households. It's a pretty tough
environment for a lot of Australians. Still, energy costs are
going up, many families doing it tough. Do you expect
the Reserve Bank of Australia to put a pause on
rates at this point? And what are your expectations for
how this impacts profitability at West back from here.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, look, I think certainly, you know, there's been a
cost of living challenge in What we would say is
that the data is telling us that the pig challenges
and stress for consumer. We saw that in sort of
sort of June through to September in twenty twenty four.
Since then, all of those indicators of that stress and
(04:57):
challenge have continued to improve. So ninety day plus delinquencies
in mortgages continues to reduce, stress levels in the book
continue to reduce, and so the evidence is that that community,
the consumer community has navigated it so far has not
to be little or demean the fact that it's still hardgoing.
(05:18):
But we certainly are seeing more positive sentiment in the
consumer sector. And only recently, you know, our analytics team
highlighted the increase in consumer spend on credit cards was
up six point five percent, which was the highest lift
we've seen for a couple of years, and so that
was encouraging. Having said that, sentiments, so if you will
(05:43):
impacted by headlines, impacted by the outlooked for rates, and
I think we just need to see how the next
couple of months go in light of the fact that,
in light of those inflation numbers we saw last week,
it does feel unlikely that the Reserve Bank or cut
interest rates in November, and so therefore, as a result,
(06:03):
that might have a little bit of a negative impact
on consumer of confidence and sentiment. But we're also coming
into that part of the year where there's a natural
seasonal uplifting spend and behavior as people sort of try
to enjoy the end of year environment. So how will
that play out is something that we're watching quite closely.
But you know, I would say that, you know, what
(06:24):
also sort of continues to come through is the resilience
and the sort of conservative and thoughtful way Australians navigate
challenging situations. Their resilience is quite remarkable, and so for example,
eighty five percent of all the mortgages that the main
people are ahead on their payments, so they've got buffer
on their payments and so therefore they're in a good
(06:46):
position if things were to return to a slightly more
challenging setting. But sort of wrap that My commentary up
there on that is that it does and is looking
a little bit more positive than their headlines. But gee,
it's month to month at the moment, and we'll see
how things play out over the next three months.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
And that certainly does sound, you know, with a positive
undertone from you But within, are there any pressure points
that we should just look out for where things are
just a little bit poorer?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Look, I think, Look, there's always, there's always, you know,
perhaps a region that's a little more challenged than than others,
Certain sectors a little bit more challenged, you know, where
we're certainly seen in the discretionary end in small business,
you know, cafes, restaurants is a little harder than and
than it has been for a while. And so you know,
(07:35):
we're just remaining vigilant on that. I would like to
think that you know, with the recent uplifting spin that
that's indicating to us that people feel like the worst
of it is behind them. But there is no doubt
that people are highly attuned to the interest rate outlook
(07:55):
and the sentiment that follows from you know, an uncertainty
about whether in straits will go up, stay the same,
or go down is quite impactful. So it's one that
we remain I suppose vigilant on. And then the only
other you know, perhaps call out is that with the
(08:17):
recent increase in private investment private sector activity, that's a
little bit of a positive sign that at last, the
private sector is going to take the lead on in
driving investment in Australia, driving activity, which is really important
because that's the right kind of growth we want if
we are going to grow jobs and grow productivity, and
(08:39):
hopefully that takes the lead and takes the burden away
from the public sector in terms of driving growth going forward.
Only other thing I just call out against around you
know what to keep an eye on is we are
forecasting an increase in house prices over the next twelve months,
and obviously that represents a challenge for people wanting to
enter the market. But it's also important to give weight
(09:01):
to the following, which is two thirds of Australian households
either own their house outright or are paying off their
house and so therefore the wealth effect of an increase
in their house price is impactful. The sense that they
are getting ahead and the sense that as they pay
off their mortgage, the value and the wealth creation is
(09:24):
going in the right direction for them with an increase
in their house price is a very important signal and
shouldn't be if you will deweighted when we think about,
you know, what's happening in the Australian economy.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Now, Anthony. And one other element is this working from
home and the the discussion around around hy hybrid work
and where things go from here. We've seen your coeoper
over and zad Nunomatos making some quite definitive moves to
get staff back in the office more. I mean the
big four banks altogether in eloy tens of thousands of Australians.
(10:02):
But what have been your guiding principles around the decision
of where your staff do they work?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, so look, our goal is to be the employer
of choice, you know, where the best want to come
and get a chance to be the best every day.
So that's sort of, you know, a starting premise. The
second point I'd like to sort of draw out is
that you know, we've been very focused on making sure
(10:31):
where is flexible, as practical, as flexible as possible that
we can be. And I would say that we think
we've got the balance right. Our policy is two to
three days a week in the office we think is
the right balance. And I would say that actually what
we then also really focus on is we want outcomes.
(10:53):
So if you're going to work at Westpac, what's really
important is that you deliver outcomes. And we can therefore
be flexible and rational around what is the combination of
work from home work in the office, But we do
need to anchor it around the fact that we need outcomes,
and I think everyone is really embraced that west Pac,
and I'm really pleased with the engagement levels we've got
from our employees, the engagement scores we're seeing, which highlight
(11:16):
I think we're close to getting it right than not.
And so it's two to three days in the office
is what we're working towards and challenging everyone to deliver on.
But everyone has to deliver outcomes no matter what arrangement
they have. And then the other other point I just
sort of leave you with, which again comes back to
something that I think is really important. We want to
when we think of ourselves at Westpac as a team,
(11:36):
whether it be the executive team I'm working with, the
leadership group, but the broader thirty five thousand people at
west Pac and a number of our team and it's
our magnificent branch staff. They're in the office five days
a week, they have to work Monday morning through to
Friday afternoon in branch operations around the country, and their
(11:57):
presence and their activity levels drive a lot of business
into the bank. And so therefore, if we are going
to be one team, everyone needs to be sensitive that
they can't just arrive with an expectation or a sense
of entitlement that there only need to be in the
office one or two or three days a week when
we've got others who commit five days every week. And
so I'm working really hard and we're working really hard
(12:18):
as a bank to make sure we get a balance
that's right, because what we want to be is a
team that delivers and delivers outcomes.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
I want to change tech now and ask you a
little bit about AI technologies, Anthony. You know, it's not
unique that businesses, you know, including of course banks, are
using AI to better understand to service to target their customers' needs.
But you know one thing that's possibly more urgent than
this mass adoption that we're seeing of AI is protection
(12:47):
from it, especially when we're thinking about the increasing amount
of financial scammers. We know you've got Lewis Hujana, the
former chief Digital officer from a Quarie starting in January
on that how are you approaching this from a resourcing
standpoint that you know that balance between wanting to leverage
AI technology and being one step ahead of the bad guys.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Well, we delighted Lewis's joining us. You know, I've had
that privilege to get to know Lewis over the last
few months, and he starts in generally very excited with
what he is going to help us achieve. That we's
back the way we're thinking about AI sort of and
just give me for sending a little bit of context here.
The use of artificial intelligence and tools such as machine learning,
(13:35):
artificial intelligence and now generative AI moving into urgentic AI programs.
It's sort of a journey that we've been on in
many companies have been on, and certainly we think it's
it's got an exceptional amount of application that we think
is going to make a big difference. There is a
lot of hype, though, and so the question for us
is making sure that as we go about this, we
(13:57):
do it in a way that we think delivers you
delivers tangible outcomes for our customers, our employees, and for
our shareholders. And the way I set it up was
I didn't think it was something that should stay within
the technology division, that in fact, AI is a tool
for every employee in the company, and in fact it
(14:17):
is a way of thinking about how we do our
job in the future differently, and so therefore it needs
to be an enterprise wide approach. And so therefore I
appointed doctor Andrew McMahon, who's like global thought leader in
the space, to look after digital data, data analytics and
AI for the company reporting to me, because I want
this to be an enterprise wide approach, and so therefore
(14:40):
the way we're going about it is that this is
a tool that in the hands of our people, if
they're properly trained and properly invested in, can help them
do their job better, faster, more consistently. It can also
take away from them the mundane and perhaps the less
enjoyable aspects of their roles, but it also can ensure
that they can be better and they can do more
(15:01):
interesting things. And so we're quite excited about that. But
it revolves us investing in AI, but also investing in
people alongside it at the same time, in their training,
in their development, in the investment in their leaders and
how they If you will challenge their challenge their teams
to use it. And then the last thing I'd say
about it is is that one of the real opportunities
(15:24):
that things like a generative AI or an agentic AI
program or opportunity throws at you is it asks you
to think about how you do your job differently. Is
there a different way, a better way in which I
can get the job done that I need to get done,
And how is it then that I take a step
back and think about can I change the process to
(15:46):
allow an agentic program to do a lot of the
steps for me and I interstep whatever it is needed
at the start or in the middle at the end.
But more importantly, I'm not in the middle of everything
as we progress a product or service to our customers.
So one of therefore the real challenges is to have
a workforce that feels motivated, inspired, remunerated to think openly
(16:10):
about can I do my job differently and can I
use this tool to help me go about doing my
job differently to drive faster, better, more consistent, more cheaper outcomes.
And then of course there's lots of things where we
feel like the properly constructed agentic program can do a
lot of high quality work, helping customers quickly get through
a lot of the mundane tasks they need to get
(16:32):
through and then arrive at that moment where they need
to speak to or want to speak to one of
our bankers. But all of the mundane challenging, you know,
just hard work has been sorted and therefore it's a
much more constructive value added discussion between our banker and
the customer at that particular point in time. And so
(16:52):
it's again something that helps us do it better for
our employees or helps us do it better for our customers,
is the way we're thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
And what about the more nefarious uses of AI? Is
the overarching goal of the training to skill Westpac staff
to be critical of that as well, Like if something
doesn't smell quite right, they'll know what to do.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
That's exactly right. I think that's formative for everybody at
the moment. Is how do we, if you will, train
and coach our people in relation to this tool and
its potential application for their various reasons. We certainly in
what I'd almost describe as an arms race in the
financial crime landscape and the cyber security landscape where external
(17:41):
challenges are coming at us, if you will, empowered by
amplified by AI genteic otherwise programs in the hands of
bad actors, and we're therefore having to invest in our
defense mechanisms with similar tools and skills to be able
to meet it. And so it's effect be an arms
raised in terms of AGENTIC or call a generative AI
(18:04):
capability in terms of fraud and scams for example, and
so we're using that to to help our Scams Center,
you know, navigate challenges. We're also using it to help
us with our fraud and financial crime and if you
want money laundering assessments. It's really a powerful tool to
(18:25):
help us get through a lot of information very quickly
and process it very quickly, which allows us to keep
up with the very high level and high frequency of
activity that we see from obviously external characters.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
And so, Anthony, as you head into your second year
at the HELM, just reflecting on those comments at the
start of this conversation about some of those surprises around
what's taking up your time and some of those external
commitments with regulators and politicians and other actors. How do
you see the next twelve months and what are you
really excited about over the following.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah, Yeah, I'm really excited about the fact that I've
got the team together, and we've got an outstanding team.
We've got the right people in the right seats with
the right skills, and we've got a clear plan of
what we've got to go after over the next twelve months.
And so I'm quite invigorated by just getting into the
execution of our plan and really getting after all the
(19:23):
things that I know, if we deliver on, we'll just
transform this bank, you liberate and really invigorate its performance.
So I'm quite energized by that. And then also i'm
far more if you will, reflective of, and I suppose
honored by the role the bank plays in the community.
And so as I learned and engaged with all of
those external stakeholders over the last twelve months, much more
(19:48):
than I anticipated, I'm now much better and I think
much more ready to really take on that responsibility and
work with community, because the simple fact is is this
bank's success is inextricably linked to us, this success and
community success, and if you will, satisfaction with what we're doing,
and so therefore working on that and working harder on
(20:08):
that to make sure you know we deliver and people
feel like we're listening and responding is a really important
part of the role that I'm pretty pretty keen to
make sure I deliver on in the next twelve months.
And I think I can deliver on with the pretty
formidable team that I've now got around me.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Anthony Miller. Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
If you found today's conversation insightful, be sure to follow
the Bloomberg Australia Podcast wherever you listen, and check for
more reading on Westpac Australia's banking sector and the latest
reporting from Adam Hague on Bloomberg dot com. This episode
was recorded on the traditional lands of the Wandery and
Gadigil people. It was produced by Paul Allen and edited
(20:49):
by Ainsley Chandler. I'm Rebecca Jones and I'll see you
next week.
Hello. I'm Rebecca Jones, and this is the Bloomberg Australia podcast,
where every week we go behind the headlines and into
the stories shaping Australia's place in global business. Westpac published
its full year numbers on Monday, and while not without headwinds,
there are signs of stability and strategic momentum. So how
(00:22):
is Westpac navigating margin pressures, consumer sentiment and a very
competitive landscape. Bloomberg Finance editor Adam Haig is here with
me now, and we're asking all of these questions to
the person in charge, Westpac's Chief executive Officer, Anthony Miller.
Good day, Anthony, thank you for joining.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Us, Thanks for having me pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
So we're speaking right after you've released Westpac's full year numbers.
A full year for west Pack and a full year
for you. You started in this role in December twenty
twenty four, Anthony, what's been the biggest challenge of this
first year in the hot seat?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Look, I would say that there's certainly been challenges, but
it's been so enjoyable and in many ways more enjoyable
than I thought it would be in my first year.
So that's sort of one thing I'd like to share
with you, I mean, the other thing that sort of
has stood out to me is I spent a lot
of the year really making sure I've got the leadership
team in place and I've got the right people in
(01:20):
the right seats to allow us to execute our plan
over the next three to four years. And so I
was really satisfied with how that's come together this year.
And I think we've got a great team executive team
and a great leadership team across the bank now, which
she's really sort of exciting and quite invigrating, I mean.
And the only thing that sort of surprised me in
the first year, and again I thought I'd thought this
(01:41):
through properly and I had waited it appropriately, was how
many demands would become at me and how much time
I would spend outside of, if you will, day to
day bank leadership, day to day bank management, in terms
of listening to and engaging with external stakeholder you know,
whether that be regulatory, whether that be community leaders, you know,
(02:06):
clearly political leaders, etc. It's amazing how many do want
to engage with the bank. And that's an important responsibility
which I knew coming into the role. I just didn't
realize how much time I would end up spending on that.
So that's been a little bit of a surprise over
the last twelve months.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
And looking forward, you know, from where you see it,
which parts of the economy is showing the strongest momentum
right now, and where does Westpac see growth potential, say
over the next year or two.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, certainly over the last twelve months, you know what
we saw in terms of growth in our institutional business
seventeen percent growth in the loan book there, in particular
in infrastructure, natural resources, energy. You know, the transition is
large and is a real opportunity for the country and
so we've been very active in that. Were the largest
renewables lender, certainly also in natural resources in terms of
(02:59):
rare earths and critical minerals. We've been quite excited by
that potential and that opportunity and we've started to realize
that in the last six months in particular, and there's
a lot more I think going forward there. And then
the other I suppose area that's been really pleasing is
our commercial bank, which is sort of, if you will,
not the large institutional business in Australia, but sort of
(03:21):
mid sized entities and some of the growth that we've
seen there has been very exciting. And in that space
we have our agricultural business and so growth in the
agricultural sector over the last twelve months has again been
really positive. And Australia's one of its real comparative advantages
is the quality of its agricultural industry and cattle, sheep, dairy, wheat, etc.
(03:43):
All the grains. We have a real comparative and advantage
there as a country and we've been very actively supporting
the growth in that space as well. So that's been
really encouraging. There's certainly been some really pleasing growth in
a few areas, small business areas, but that's been a
little harder in the last twelve months. You know, clearly
(04:04):
it's still a difficult environment and we're only just starting
to see small businesses emerge and be a little bit
more active now.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
And Anthony, what about for households. It's a pretty tough
environment for a lot of Australians. Still, energy costs are
going up, many families doing it tough. Do you expect
the Reserve Bank of Australia to put a pause on
rates at this point? And what are your expectations for
how this impacts profitability at West back from here.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, look, I think certainly, you know, there's been a
cost of living challenge in What we would say is
that the data is telling us that the pig challenges
and stress for consumer. We saw that in sort of
sort of June through to September in twenty twenty four.
Since then, all of those indicators of that stress and
(04:57):
challenge have continued to improve. So ninety day plus delinquencies
in mortgages continues to reduce, stress levels in the book
continue to reduce, and so the evidence is that that community,
the consumer community has navigated it so far has not
to be little or demean the fact that it's still hardgoing.
(05:18):
But we certainly are seeing more positive sentiment in the
consumer sector. And only recently, you know, our analytics team
highlighted the increase in consumer spend on credit cards was
up six point five percent, which was the highest lift
we've seen for a couple of years, and so that
was encouraging. Having said that, sentiments, so if you will
(05:43):
impacted by headlines, impacted by the outlooked for rates, and
I think we just need to see how the next
couple of months go in light of the fact that,
in light of those inflation numbers we saw last week,
it does feel unlikely that the Reserve Bank or cut
interest rates in November, and so therefore, as a result,
(06:03):
that might have a little bit of a negative impact
on consumer of confidence and sentiment. But we're also coming
into that part of the year where there's a natural
seasonal uplifting spend and behavior as people sort of try
to enjoy the end of year environment. So how will
that play out is something that we're watching quite closely.
But you know, I would say that, you know, what
(06:24):
also sort of continues to come through is the resilience
and the sort of conservative and thoughtful way Australians navigate
challenging situations. Their resilience is quite remarkable, and so for example,
eighty five percent of all the mortgages that the main
people are ahead on their payments, so they've got buffer
on their payments and so therefore they're in a good
(06:46):
position if things were to return to a slightly more
challenging setting. But sort of wrap that My commentary up
there on that is that it does and is looking
a little bit more positive than their headlines. But gee,
it's month to month at the moment, and we'll see
how things play out over the next three months.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
And that certainly does sound, you know, with a positive
undertone from you But within, are there any pressure points
that we should just look out for where things are
just a little bit poorer?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Look, I think, Look, there's always, there's always, you know,
perhaps a region that's a little more challenged than than others,
Certain sectors a little bit more challenged, you know, where
we're certainly seen in the discretionary end in small business,
you know, cafes, restaurants is a little harder than and
than it has been for a while. And so you know,
(07:35):
we're just remaining vigilant on that. I would like to
think that you know, with the recent uplifting spin that
that's indicating to us that people feel like the worst
of it is behind them. But there is no doubt
that people are highly attuned to the interest rate outlook
(07:55):
and the sentiment that follows from you know, an uncertainty
about whether in straits will go up, stay the same,
or go down is quite impactful. So it's one that
we remain I suppose vigilant on. And then the only
other you know, perhaps call out is that with the
(08:17):
recent increase in private investment private sector activity, that's a
little bit of a positive sign that at last, the
private sector is going to take the lead on in
driving investment in Australia, driving activity, which is really important
because that's the right kind of growth we want if
we are going to grow jobs and grow productivity, and
(08:39):
hopefully that takes the lead and takes the burden away
from the public sector in terms of driving growth going forward.
Only other thing I just call out against around you
know what to keep an eye on is we are
forecasting an increase in house prices over the next twelve months,
and obviously that represents a challenge for people wanting to
enter the market. But it's also important to give weight
(09:01):
to the following, which is two thirds of Australian households
either own their house outright or are paying off their
house and so therefore the wealth effect of an increase
in their house price is impactful. The sense that they
are getting ahead and the sense that as they pay
off their mortgage, the value and the wealth creation is
(09:24):
going in the right direction for them with an increase
in their house price is a very important signal and
shouldn't be if you will deweighted when we think about,
you know, what's happening in the Australian economy.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Now, Anthony. And one other element is this working from
home and the the discussion around around hy hybrid work
and where things go from here. We've seen your coeoper
over and zad Nunomatos making some quite definitive moves to
get staff back in the office more. I mean the
big four banks altogether in eloy tens of thousands of Australians.
(10:02):
But what have been your guiding principles around the decision
of where your staff do they work?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, so look, our goal is to be the employer
of choice, you know, where the best want to come
and get a chance to be the best every day.
So that's sort of, you know, a starting premise. The
second point I'd like to sort of draw out is
that you know, we've been very focused on making sure
(10:31):
where is flexible, as practical, as flexible as possible that
we can be. And I would say that we think
we've got the balance right. Our policy is two to
three days a week in the office we think is
the right balance. And I would say that actually what
we then also really focus on is we want outcomes.
(10:53):
So if you're going to work at Westpac, what's really
important is that you deliver outcomes. And we can therefore
be flexible and rational around what is the combination of
work from home work in the office, But we do
need to anchor it around the fact that we need outcomes,
and I think everyone is really embraced that west Pac,
and I'm really pleased with the engagement levels we've got
from our employees, the engagement scores we're seeing, which highlight
(11:16):
I think we're close to getting it right than not.
And so it's two to three days in the office
is what we're working towards and challenging everyone to deliver on.
But everyone has to deliver outcomes no matter what arrangement
they have. And then the other other point I just
sort of leave you with, which again comes back to
something that I think is really important. We want to
when we think of ourselves at Westpac as a team,
(11:36):
whether it be the executive team I'm working with, the
leadership group, but the broader thirty five thousand people at
west Pac and a number of our team and it's
our magnificent branch staff. They're in the office five days
a week, they have to work Monday morning through to
Friday afternoon in branch operations around the country, and their
(11:57):
presence and their activity levels drive a lot of business
into the bank. And so therefore, if we are going
to be one team, everyone needs to be sensitive that
they can't just arrive with an expectation or a sense
of entitlement that there only need to be in the
office one or two or three days a week when
we've got others who commit five days every week. And
so I'm working really hard and we're working really hard
(12:18):
as a bank to make sure we get a balance
that's right, because what we want to be is a
team that delivers and delivers outcomes.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
I want to change tech now and ask you a
little bit about AI technologies, Anthony. You know, it's not
unique that businesses, you know, including of course banks, are
using AI to better understand to service to target their customers' needs.
But you know one thing that's possibly more urgent than
this mass adoption that we're seeing of AI is protection
(12:47):
from it, especially when we're thinking about the increasing amount
of financial scammers. We know you've got Lewis Hujana, the
former chief Digital officer from a Quarie starting in January
on that how are you approaching this from a resourcing
standpoint that you know that balance between wanting to leverage
AI technology and being one step ahead of the bad guys.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Well, we delighted Lewis's joining us. You know, I've had
that privilege to get to know Lewis over the last
few months, and he starts in generally very excited with
what he is going to help us achieve. That we's
back the way we're thinking about AI sort of and
just give me for sending a little bit of context here.
The use of artificial intelligence and tools such as machine learning,
(13:35):
artificial intelligence and now generative AI moving into urgentic AI programs.
It's sort of a journey that we've been on in
many companies have been on, and certainly we think it's
it's got an exceptional amount of application that we think
is going to make a big difference. There is a
lot of hype, though, and so the question for us
is making sure that as we go about this, we
(13:57):
do it in a way that we think delivers you
delivers tangible outcomes for our customers, our employees, and for
our shareholders. And the way I set it up was
I didn't think it was something that should stay within
the technology division, that in fact, AI is a tool
for every employee in the company, and in fact it
(14:17):
is a way of thinking about how we do our
job in the future differently, and so therefore it needs
to be an enterprise wide approach. And so therefore I
appointed doctor Andrew McMahon, who's like global thought leader in
the space, to look after digital data, data analytics and
AI for the company reporting to me, because I want
this to be an enterprise wide approach, and so therefore
(14:40):
the way we're going about it is that this is
a tool that in the hands of our people, if
they're properly trained and properly invested in, can help them
do their job better, faster, more consistently. It can also
take away from them the mundane and perhaps the less
enjoyable aspects of their roles, but it also can ensure
that they can be better and they can do more
(15:01):
interesting things. And so we're quite excited about that. But
it revolves us investing in AI, but also investing in
people alongside it at the same time, in their training,
in their development, in the investment in their leaders and
how they If you will challenge their challenge their teams
to use it. And then the last thing I'd say
about it is is that one of the real opportunities
(15:24):
that things like a generative AI or an agentic AI
program or opportunity throws at you is it asks you
to think about how you do your job differently. Is
there a different way, a better way in which I
can get the job done that I need to get done,
And how is it then that I take a step
back and think about can I change the process to
(15:46):
allow an agentic program to do a lot of the
steps for me and I interstep whatever it is needed
at the start or in the middle at the end.
But more importantly, I'm not in the middle of everything
as we progress a product or service to our customers.
So one of therefore the real challenges is to have
a workforce that feels motivated, inspired, remunerated to think openly
(16:10):
about can I do my job differently and can I
use this tool to help me go about doing my
job differently to drive faster, better, more consistent, more cheaper outcomes.
And then of course there's lots of things where we
feel like the properly constructed agentic program can do a
lot of high quality work, helping customers quickly get through
a lot of the mundane tasks they need to get
(16:32):
through and then arrive at that moment where they need
to speak to or want to speak to one of
our bankers. But all of the mundane challenging, you know,
just hard work has been sorted and therefore it's a
much more constructive value added discussion between our banker and
the customer at that particular point in time. And so
(16:52):
it's again something that helps us do it better for
our employees or helps us do it better for our customers,
is the way we're thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
And what about the more nefarious uses of AI? Is
the overarching goal of the training to skill Westpac staff
to be critical of that as well, Like if something
doesn't smell quite right, they'll know what to do.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
That's exactly right. I think that's formative for everybody at
the moment. Is how do we, if you will, train
and coach our people in relation to this tool and
its potential application for their various reasons. We certainly in
what I'd almost describe as an arms race in the
financial crime landscape and the cyber security landscape where external
(17:41):
challenges are coming at us, if you will, empowered by
amplified by AI genteic otherwise programs in the hands of
bad actors, and we're therefore having to invest in our
defense mechanisms with similar tools and skills to be able
to meet it. And so it's effect be an arms
raised in terms of AGENTIC or call a generative AI
(18:04):
capability in terms of fraud and scams for example, and
so we're using that to to help our Scams Center,
you know, navigate challenges. We're also using it to help
us with our fraud and financial crime and if you
want money laundering assessments. It's really a powerful tool to
(18:25):
help us get through a lot of information very quickly
and process it very quickly, which allows us to keep
up with the very high level and high frequency of
activity that we see from obviously external characters.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
And so, Anthony, as you head into your second year
at the HELM, just reflecting on those comments at the
start of this conversation about some of those surprises around
what's taking up your time and some of those external
commitments with regulators and politicians and other actors. How do
you see the next twelve months and what are you
really excited about over the following.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah, Yeah, I'm really excited about the fact that I've
got the team together, and we've got an outstanding team.
We've got the right people in the right seats with
the right skills, and we've got a clear plan of
what we've got to go after over the next twelve months.
And so I'm quite invigorated by just getting into the
execution of our plan and really getting after all the
(19:23):
things that I know, if we deliver on, we'll just
transform this bank, you liberate and really invigorate its performance.
So I'm quite energized by that. And then also i'm
far more if you will, reflective of, and I suppose
honored by the role the bank plays in the community.
And so as I learned and engaged with all of
those external stakeholders over the last twelve months, much more
(19:48):
than I anticipated, I'm now much better and I think
much more ready to really take on that responsibility and
work with community, because the simple fact is is this
bank's success is inextricably linked to us, this success and
community success, and if you will, satisfaction with what we're doing,
and so therefore working on that and working harder on
(20:08):
that to make sure you know we deliver and people
feel like we're listening and responding is a really important
part of the role that I'm pretty pretty keen to
make sure I deliver on in the next twelve months.
And I think I can deliver on with the pretty
formidable team that I've now got around me.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Anthony Miller. Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
If you found today's conversation insightful, be sure to follow
the Bloomberg Australia Podcast wherever you listen, and check for
more reading on Westpac Australia's banking sector and the latest
reporting from Adam Hague on Bloomberg dot com. This episode
was recorded on the traditional lands of the Wandery and
Gadigil people. It was produced by Paul Allen and edited
(20:49):
by Ainsley Chandler. I'm Rebecca Jones and I'll see you
next week.
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